From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 02:22:07 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:49:11 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970225134534_1282342007@emout10.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: G Strain Energy Absorber test
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Hi All,

I have build and tested SUCCESSFULLY a "G strain energy absorber circuit".
I have updated my Overunity web server at 

        http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

with the complete schematic diagram and all results. Its easy to build, you
need only basics electronics components.
It too early to conclude anything, I need your feedback and comments about my
test.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 06:02:04 1997
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Message-ID: <33180BDD.5FA7@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 21:28:37 +1030
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: hschulze@collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Large Diamagnetic Effects in FerroMagnetic Material
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Hi All,

Thanks to Michael J. Schaffer (Schaffer@gav.gat.com) I have been
able to define the ferromagnetic characteristics for this effect
to work.  This diamagnetic effect is many hundreds, if not
thousands of times greater than that found in normal diamagnetic
material.

I have found a commercially available material which
should show the effect.  The material is Siemens/TDK ferrite U60.
This material has low permeability and low saturation, both of which
are necessary for the effect to work.  I have copied the mfg B/H
data into Qfield and verified the effect.  I have ordered a sample
of the material and will report on the results.

I have sent a zip file of the Qfield sims to the DNMEC Gif list.

All feedback is welcome.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 09:50:04 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:49:25 -0800 (PST)
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From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: Tesla motor
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TO ALL: A friend of mine Don Kelly, who publishes "Space Energy Journal", A
free energy magazine everyone should have, sent me the December issue of his
magazine. It shows a patent of Tesla's #381,970 dated 1,888. This patent
uses a permanent magnet rotor, [electromagnets optional] the permanent
magnet rotor is divided into two halves one north and one south. The stator
is divided into four sections which is divided into pairs that are
diametrically opposite one another. It uses a commutator that breaks the
positive and negative poles at the same time and feeds the current backwards
into the same pair of coils, this would collect the back [forward] EMF. The
core is a torroid, made from short strips of soft wire. No battery is shown
but of course there is one. I think that anyone who studies this design will
recognize the genius of Tesla and also that of Joe Newman, who uses a very
similar design. Apparently Tesla knew better than to clain overunity for his
device.
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 10:08:36 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:00:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970301120012_1747005302@emout20.mail.aol.com>
To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Large Diamagnetic Effects in FerroMagnetic Material
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On 01/03/1997  14:45:21, you wrote :

<< All feedback is welcome.
  >>

Thank you very much Greg for your last Zip File, you make a very good work
and your simulation is very helpfull. Have you seen in Bedini Web server, a
very interesting experience on Magnetic one way gate ("The Hamel Magnetic
motor"), I think that its very interesting to simulate with Qfield  and
building this kind of device.
John Bedini say :
 "The way I think about this is that there is a "Magnetic combustion" that
takes place in a field of zero. The Magnetic Field on the input side is
spinning just like a tornado. When the Magnet reaches the center the spins go
the other direction forcing the Magnet out. It was discovered that when two
like poles are pushed together the output beam is four times greater. Do the
simple experiment yourself, take two Magnets push the like poles together and
at that point the power of the magnet should be four times greater and the
normal poles should be two times weaker......."

Overunity yours,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 12:03:33 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:47:01 -0800
From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert )
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: remove form list
References: <199702250350.VAA05066@natashya.eden.com> <33127D0A.40DC@microtronics.com.au> <33129679.6C3@plix.com>
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Dorman, Robert wrote:
> 
> Dear Greg,
> Please remove me from your private email list (for the time being).
> I am presently engaged in an email and FAX war to support the human
> rights of the traditional Dineh indians in the United States, and cannot
> take the time to deal with the technical stuff right now until things
> stabilize.
> 
> I'll say bye to the rest of the list for now, too.  Though it's off
> topic, below is a press release that I have been sending to the media,
> with similar ones to the United Nations members, public officials, and
> human rights activist organizations; also financial institutions having
> dealings with Hanson PLC and Peabody Coal.  I hope after reading it you
> will understand why I am taking a "humanity break" :)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>snip
P.S.  If anyone is interested, I have a email list, BIGMTLIST,
(Big Mountain List) through which I sent out latest updates on what is
hapening with the Dineh resistors, related court cases, information on
Peabody Coal, etc. If you want to be on it [and hopefully take some part
in letter writing, emailing, phoning or faxing anyone who might be able
to have influence in halting the genecide], just send me an email
message with "SUBSCRIBE BIGMTLIST" in the subject heading.  It is a
moderated, non-automated list.
--Bob Dorman

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 12:20:56 1997
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Message-ID: <33127D0A.40DC@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:17:54 +1030
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: hschulze@collison.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Room Temp Levitation of Ferromagnetic Material
References: <199702250350.VAA05066@natashya.eden.com>
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Scott Little wrote:
> 
> At 12:41 PM 2/25/97 +1030, you wrote:
> 
> >The basis of the idea
> >is the that as ferromagnetic material becomes saturated and can't
> >accept more flux, it will change from ferromagnetic to diamagnetic and
> >repel any increase in external flux density.
> 
> The diamagnetic repulsion is several orders of magnitude lower that
> ferromagnetic attraction even in the most diamagnetic materials like
> Bismuth.  Even if your fm mat'l became strongly diamagnetic (like Bi) the
> result would be a  barely detectable lessening of the enormous attraction
> force caused by the initial ferromagnetic interaction.  In order to get
> levitation, the diamagnetic repulsion forces would have to EXCEED the
> ferromagnetic attraction, which is still there in full force, regardless of
> the saturation.

Hi Scott,

For ferromagnetic attraction to exist, the permeability of the material
must be greater that 1.  If the external flux density is greater than
the internal flux density (due in this case to saturation), then the
permeability will be less than 1 and therefore NO ferromagnetic
attraction 
will exist.  In fact we will have a ferromagnetic repelling force.  This
is
CONFIRMED by Qfield.  I am preparing the Gifs now.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 12:27:38 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:28:58 +1100
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: New OVERUNITY dedicated server 
Resent-Message-ID: <"qL9g22.0.I34.qHh4p"@mx1>
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At 02:39 PM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I am glad to announce you, the birth of a new server dedicated to Overunity
>and Electro-Gravity Experiments. 
>
>CORRECT URL Adress ---> http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>I have decided today, to share my own lab's experiments in a Web server.
>
>You will find in this server :
>
>- How to build an Electrodynamic device,
>- the tests and schemes of Bedini G-field generator,
>- the tests and schemes of an Adams motor/generator,
>- the tests and schemes of a Scalar battery charger,
>- my useful electronic schemes library for overunity experimenters...... 
>     ( High voltage commutator for Back EMF recovery test, Charge blocking
>devices...)
>
>with many color pictures and detailled diagrams for experimenters.
>
>My web server is updated quite often, as soon as I have completed new
>experiments....
>
>I hope that these informations will help you in your Quest of Overunity,
>
>Truly,
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
>my WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
>Home_Page</A>
><A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>
>
>
>Checked out your new web page ,I liked what I saw and will add your page
to my helpful site list on my web site shortly.

will also try to reproduce your electrostatic lfting model when I finish
making my new wimhurst machine.

Geoff
>

WEB site Http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 18:20:29 1997
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Message-ID: <3318D391.6E7E@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 10:40:41 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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References: <970301120012_1747005302@emout20.mail.aol.com>
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JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Thank you very much Greg for your last Zip File, you make a very good work
> and your simulation is very helpfull. Have you seen in Bedini Web server, a
> very interesting experience on Magnetic one way gate ("The Hamel Magnetic
> motor"), I think that its very interesting to simulate with Qfield  and
> building this kind of device.

I am working on a sim of this device now.

> John Bedini say :
>  "The way I think about this is that there is a "Magnetic combustion" that
> takes place in a field of zero. The Magnetic Field on the input side is
> spinning just like a tornado. When the Magnet reaches the center the spins go
> the other direction forcing the Magnet out. It was discovered that when two
> like poles are pushed together the output beam is four times greater. Do the
> simple experiment yourself, take two Magnets push the like poles together and
> at that point the power of the magnet should be four times greater and the
> normal poles should be two times weaker......."

I have posted Sim Gifs showing this effect.  It is one of the effects
used
in my development of the DNMEC generator.  The IDE paper also used this
effect of opposing magnets in his experiments.  Epitaxy@localaccess.com
faxed
me a copy.  Makes very interesting reading.

> Jean-Louis Naudin

Hi Jean-Louis,

Thanks for the input.  Your web site is excellent.  Keep up the good
work.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 23:44:52 1997
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From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox)
Subject: Lord Kelvin's generator
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Has anyone made the dripping water Lord Kelvin generator. I made one but she
didn't generator electricity. It's very humid out and that doesn't help. Any
suggestions from out there in the land of high wierdness.

Thanks in advance. Byrun.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 06:58:26 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:53:42 +1030
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com,
        Newman-l <newman-l@emachine.com>
Subject: Re: Room Temp Levitation
References: <9702251014233114@emachine.com>
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Newman-l wrote:
> 
>   The problem with this idea is that a ferro magnetic materiel will
> simply saturate, but it will still allow some of the flux to pass
> through itself.  Since the flux lines "want" to make themselves as short
> as possible, they will pull the ferromagnetic materiel against the
> magnet very tightly.

As the Gifs show, the flux lines are bent away from the sphere and hence
the sphere will be repelled.  The Quick Field sim confirms the sphere
will
be pushed away from the magnet.  The force vector moves from -90 to +90
as the sphere goes diamagnetic.

>    Here's another thought; a Neo magnet will easily saturate a bunch of
> iron filings if they are allowed to become attracted to the surface of
> the Neo.  If your idea is correct, the filings should then be repelled
> from the surface of the magnet.  I don't think the state change you
> envision will actually take place.

I don't think iron filings will saturate, but I will do a sim run to
check it out.

>    As I understand it, the principle of superconducting magnetic
> repulsion is that the magnetic field cannot enter the superconductor,
> hence the superconductor is forced away from the magnet by the flux
> lines which attempt to maintain their "shape" and oppose being distorted
> by being pushed aside by the intrusion of the superconductor in their
> space.

Exactly what the QF Gifs show.

>    Ralph

Hi Ralph,

I haven't done actual tests let.  It is not easy to find ferromagnetic
material which will saturate at low flux levels (0.2T).  Seems more of
the work in FM has been to increase the sat levels to around 2T and most
of the material is around 1 - 2T.  Have any ideas as to material to
test?

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 15:28:35 1997
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Message-ID: <331A1600.71D@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 09:36:24 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: hschulze@collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
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Subject: Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional Magnetic Configuration.
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Hi All,

I have just produced a ZIP file of the following paper which
has been discussed lightly here.  Part of the Rod & Coil discussion
was formed from this research.  My DNMEC development has confirmed
the case of the opposing fields causing the point of max flux density
to be outside the air gap.  The increased voltage observed in this paper
further adds to the DNMEC theory on the earlier Rod & Coil test.  This 
work also ties back to the Newman Motor's operational characteristics of 
increased vlotage production.  I thank Epitaxy@localaccess.com for the 
following Header:

The article has been posted to the DNMEC Gif list.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages
> 6015-6020)
> PUBLISHED BY THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF PHYSICS.
> 
> TITLE:
> Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional
> Magnetic Configuration
> 
> PREFACE:
> The behavior of an LCR (inductance-capacitance-resistance) circuit with a
> moveable ferromagnetic core is discussed.  The core is attracted by a
> magnetic field generated by an electric current resulting from the
> discharge of a capacitor in the closed LCR circuit.  An unusual increase in
> recharge voltage, which was dependent on the magnetic configuration of the
> coil, was observed.  This voltage increase does not conform to the
> mathematical simulation of the system.  The possibility that a positive
> electromotive force was involved in this effect is discussed.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> The following is a particularly interesting statement from this article:
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "Generally speaking, it is expected that the total recharge voltage will
> decrease because this system produces mechanical output as the core moves.
> However, through a series of experiments, it was discovered that results
> depend on the magnetic configuration of the coils used in the circuit.  In
> other words, for a certain kind of magnetic field, the opposite result
> could occur --- an increase in the average current and recharge voltage.
> To confirm the above observations, an experiment was conducted, which is
> described in this article."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> The following was one of the final conclusions presented in this article:
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "It can be postulated that the complex movement of magnetic flux generates
> a positive EMF, but the cause of the voltage increase is not clear."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------

Feedback welcome.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 15:38:30 1997
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Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:59:52 -0800
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 15:57:27 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970224155726_1016864004@emout14.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : shunted vs. variable capacitors
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On 23/02/1997  21:03:52, you wrote :

<< 
Suj :	shunted vs. variable capacitors
Date :	23/02/1997  21:03:52
From:	fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
>>
<<The reason I say "on paper" is because I have a paper here in front of me
 called "On The Oscillations of a Circuit Having A Periodically Varied
 Capacitance" written by W. L. Barrow of MIT in 1933 that describes
 experiments where he varied the capacitance of a circuit at different
 multiples of its original resonant frequency. His method of varying the
 capacitance? A motor-driven commutator switched a capacitor in and out of
 the circuit! He describes all the various resonance phenomena shown by the
 other researchers who have done these kinds of experiments, including the
 one we're interested in here, the buildup of current. >>

Hi Fred and Maxwell,

For your information, I give you an interesting patent reference of a
parametric machine (see below). 

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
 4622510 : Parametric electric machine 

 INVENTORS:
           Cap; Ferdinand, A-6020 Innsbruck, Austria
            Nov. 11, 1986

 ABSTRACT:   A parametric electric machine consists of a series resonant
circuit, which has a capacitance (C) which is adapted
 to be mechanically varied, an inductance (L) and a resistance (R). The
no-load values of the capacitance (Co), inductance (Lo)
 and resistance (Ro) fulfill the threshold condition [Figure] and at least
one of the parameters L, R and C of the resonant
 circuit is a function of the current flowing in the resonant circuit.

 7 CLAIMS: 

 I claim:

      1. A parametric electric machine comprising a series resonant circuit
which has a resistor element having a resistance,
      an induction coil element having an inductance and a capacitor element
having a capacitance and means periodically
      alternating the capacitance, 
           (a) the resonant circuit fulfilling the condition [Figure] wherein
Co is the total capacitance of the capacitor
           element, .DELTA.C is the mechanically effected change of the
capacitance of the capacitor element, Ro is the
           resistance of the induction coil element and of any additional
strict resistance under no load, and Lo is the
           inductance of the induction coil element, and
           (b) at least one of the elements is a non-linear element having an
impedance dependent on the current flowing
           in the resonant circuit whereby the fluctuation of voltage
appearing according to the transformation of
           mechanical work into electrical energy at the capacitor element is
transformed into sinusoidal alternating
           voltage.
      2. The parametric machine according to claim 1, wherein the induction
coil element comprises at least one induction
      coil including a stationary core consisting of ferromagnetic material. 
      3. A parametric machine according to claim 2, wherein the core of the
induction coil consists of low-loss ferromagnetic
      material. 
      4. A parametric machine according to claim 3, wherein the core has a
core loss (V10) of about 1 to 3 W/kg. 
      5. A parametric machine according to claim 2, wherein the core consists
of a laminated core of dynamo sheets IV
      having a thickness of 0.35 mm. 
      6. The parametric machine according to claim 1, wherein the capacitor
element comprises at least one capacitor
      consisting of discs rotatable relative to each other on an axis and
extending normal to said axis, each disc having
      alternating sectors of conducting and dielectrical materials. 
      7. A parametric machine according to claim 1, wherein a transformer
having a primary winding connects a consumer to
      the resonant circuit, the induction coil forming at least a part of the
primary winding. 




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 17:20:57 1997
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Message-ID: <331B2F2B.2767@triode.net.au>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 12:06:03 -0800
From: Maxwell <max@triode.net.au>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
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To: Free Energy List <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: wheredjago?
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Its awfully quiet on the freenrg-l at the moment. Is there a conference
on at the moment or something that is dragging everyone away?

I have received just a trickle of email from this list over the last few
days. 

Maxwell's Demon.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 20:21:05 1997
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Message-ID: <331A6B4E.4BEF@keelynet.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 22:10:22 -0800
From: Jerry <jdecker@keelynet.com>
Organization: KeelyNet
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Hamel Magnetic Spinner
References: <970203124646_-1643840838@emout18.mail.aol.com>
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Hi Folks!

For those of you who are interested in basic experiments which show 
anomalies, check out the various results and descriptions of experiments 
done with ring and disc magnets to produce an anomalous rotation.

                   http://www.keelynet.com/hamindex.htm

-- 
               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 00:32:05 1997
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 00:17:24 -0800
From: Albert Yang <lithium@ipgeek.com>
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Subject: Magnetic field question/machine
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------------693591F7F330
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OK, I flunked e&m, so you have to help me out here.  Got a scenerio and so I need you to 
tell me what the theoritical results are suppose to be.  

Let's say that I glue two big magnets with North-to-North.  There should be some flux in 
the field as the N-t-N mag fields aren't at a "happy" medium.  Now if I have a a metal 
rod with copper wires wrapped around it placed close to it, the scalar waves should give 
a little energy to the rod and generate electricity to the copper wires, but more 
importantly, if placed on a free spinning axis encompassed in a ring magnet, would I get 
the magnet to start spinning by itself?  For some reason, I have a feeling that the 
"scalar" waves that Bedini talks about via N-t-N can be used to "give a push" to the 
spin of the system against the metal rod.

I have included a diagram (rough) of what I mean.  Take it for what it's worth.  I don't 
have time, but if someone out there could build one (one of the best ways to test 
something) then please do and tell me how it goes.  I am interested in the results.  
It's not that hard to build.  I have been thinking about it and it would probably work 
better if the entire system was built on it's side so the axis are suspended in the ring 
magnet and afloat.

Albert

lithium@ipgeek.com
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------------693591F7F330--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 08:48:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA32278; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:28:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:28:02 -0800
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:27:20 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970303102719_1383212222@emout04.mail.aol.com>
To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Hamel Spinning disk
Resent-Message-ID: <"vQINl1.0.Bu7.1uk6p"@mx1>
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>From : Jean-Louis Naudin
To : Greg Watson

Hi Greg,

Have you an answer about your question "Does rotation continue if the upper
magnetic ring is held by a fixed structure and NOT the hand?"
I anyone have made Hamel spinning experiment, I would like to know how many
time the ring turn alone on a FIXED STRUCTURE ??
And what do you think of the importance of steel ball ? Is it only for
reducing friction or for changing the shape of the magnetic field ?

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

---------------------------------------------
<<Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 11:26:29 +0930 
From: Greg Watson 
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting 
To: Jerry 
Subject: Hamel Spinner Flux Simulations 

Hi Jerry 

Here is a side-on view of the flux patterns for the Hamel Spinner. Does
rotation continue if the
upper magnetic ring is held by a fixed structure and NOT the hand? 

Would be interested in your comments on the flux patterns. 

Best Regards, 
Greg Watson
Greg Watson Consulting
Adelaide, South Australia>>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 11:08:49 1997
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:13:45 -0800 (PST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: Re: Hamel Spinning disk
Resent-Message-ID: <"oK__o.0.pJ3.WQm6p"@mx1>
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At 10:27 AM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>From : Jean-Louis Naudin
>To : Greg Watson
>
>Hi Greg,
>
>Have you an answer about your question "Does rotation continue if the upper
>magnetic ring is held by a fixed structure and NOT the hand?"
>I anyone have made Hamel spinning experiment, I would like to know how many
>time the ring turn alone on a FIXED STRUCTURE ??
>And what do you think of the importance of steel ball ? Is it only for
>reducing friction or for changing the shape of the magnetic field ?
>
>Truly,
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
>my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>---------------------------------------------
><<Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 11:26:29 +0930 
>From: Greg Watson 
>Organization: Greg Watson Consulting 
>To: Jerry 
>Subject: Hamel Spinner Flux Simulations 
>
>Hi Jerry 
>
>Here is a side-on view of the flux patterns for the Hamel Spinner. Does
>rotation continue if the
>upper magnetic ring is held by a fixed structure and NOT the hand? 
>
>Would be interested in your comments on the flux patterns. 
>
>Best Regards, 
>Greg Watson
>Greg Watson Consulting
>Adelaide, South Australia>>
>
>
>TO ALL: I have made the hamel magnetic spinner It does not spin on a fixed axis
at least not yet. It appears to spin for a long time when held by hand
because of loss of friction. John says that it will pull a magnet through
the gate, but I do not think that it will work when the loop is completed.
This would be the same setup as the tomi.
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 11:19:42 1997
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Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:34:14 -0800
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:34:00 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <bilb@eskimo.com>
To: Byrun Fox <Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca>
cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Lord Kelvin's generator
In-Reply-To: <E0w13lW-0001ZH-00@dewey.mindlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95q.970303103233.6816O-100000@eskimo.com>
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Byrun Fox wrote:

> Has anyone made the dripping water Lord Kelvin generator. I made one but she
> didn't generator electricity. It's very humid out and that doesn't help. Any
> suggestions from out there in the land of high wierdness.
> 
> Thanks in advance. Byrun.
> 

I've made several, and even designed an in-line version.  For this and
lots of other electrostatic stuff, see
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/statelec.html

................................freenrg-L....................................
William Beaty   bilb@eskimo.com   EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd
Moderator: FREENRG-L   VORTEX-L   TAOSHUM-L   WEBHEAD-L
http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html
Seattle, WA 98117  billb@eskimo.com  voice:206-781-3320 


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 11:44:20 1997
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Message-ID: <331ADD88.B48@tiac.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 14:17:44 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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References: <331B2F2B.2767@triode.net.au>
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Maxwell wrote:
> 
> Its awfully quiet on the freenrg-l at the moment. Is there a conference
> on at the moment or something that is dragging everyone away?
> 
> I have received just a trickle of email from this list over the last few
> days.
> 
> Maxwell's Demon.

I'm beginning to suspect that something odd's been happening with
eskimo.com.  I've had problems with freenrg-l and other lists Bill runs.

I've not been getting messages back, but hve found my postings in the
real time archives on his web site.  I was also having ISP problems
during this period, so I'm not sure where the real problem lies.

Anyone else seen this happening?  I've missed the Electric Wave
Experiment thread!!!!!  Parts had to be forwarded to me.

(EMI indeed!  Ha!  That's one hell of a remote diagnosis for an EMI
engineer without any data to go on.  Funny how incresing the rise time
increased the detected signal strenght if it's just EMI.)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 15:12:01 1997
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Sender: mathias@stacken.kth.se
Message-ID: <331B556A.181121C4@netcraft.se>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 23:49:14 +0100
From: Mathias Bage <mathias@netcraft.se>
Organization: Netcraft Scandinavia
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hamel Spinning disk
References: <970303102719_1383212222@emout04.mail.aol.com>
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Hi, everyone!

Did anyone notice that Bedini's Hi-Speed Spinner
   http://www.keelynet.com/energy/bedhispd.htm
very much resembles a Searl Effect Generator (S.E.G.)?
[Searl also uses neodymium in his magnets.]

However, in the Bedini drawing (see URL above), I'm not sure
if the depicted ring magnet (+ the edge magnets) is the one
seen balancing on the steel ball in the other drawings, i.e.
the ring magnet + edge magnets somehow make the wobbling
ring unnecessary.

BTW, Searl's edge magnets are actually a stack of 8 thin magnets.

--Mathias Båge

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 15:20:15 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 11:53:48 +1200
From: Teague Family <teague@es.co.nz>
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Jean-Louis et al

Based on my experience it is only a pivot point.

> And what do you think of the importance of steel ball ? Is it only for
> reducing friction or for changing the shape of the magnetic field ?

On hand were a couple of ring magnets about 70x45x5mm (ODxIDxthickness)
salvaged from automotive oil filters. No steel ball large enough so I
hot glued one to a biiliard ball.

It works after a fashion, the second magnet above, tilted and slightly
offset axially... poles arranged so the magnets attract, not repel.

Performance was improved after substituting a 60x32x8mm magnet and
suitable steel ball for the spinning component. However I find a need
for a destablising condition to make it spin at speed... moving the top
magnet steadily away from myself works well.

Which brings to mind the beauty of the Searl method ie the imposition of
a secondary offset magnetic field, if only I understood it better. John
Bedini's latest is becoming reminiscence of the SEG ie Searl Effect
Generator.

Cheers... Rex

ps. I've been lurking awhile... pleased to meet you. 8-)
This one has got to be a winner!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 17:45:08 1997
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From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
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Is there a US patent # for the Kromrey generator? If so could someone post it.
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 20:29:20 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 14:45:40 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hamel Spinning disk
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Teague Family wrote:
> 
> Performance was improved after substituting a 60x32x8mm magnet and
> suitable steel ball for the spinning component. However I find a need
> for a destablising condition to make it spin at speed... moving the top
> magnet steadily away from myself works well.
> 
> Cheers... Rex

Hi Rex,

What did you use as the upper magnet assembly?  

Does the lower assy still spin if you don't input any energy?  Moving 
the upper assy will input energy to the lower assy.

Don't get too carried away yet.  Lets do more testing to understand
what's going on.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 21:46:32 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 08:19:54 -0800
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <frolov@wplus.net>
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Subject: ring magnet + metal ball
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Hi, research people!

I see lot of messages here about devices these use ring magnet (axis
magnetization) + metal ball in central hole of it. I must note that it
is patented system by Dr. Michael Ostrikov, Russia. He work in Space
Academy, St.-Petersburg.

I don't know number of the patent, but Dr. Ostrikov claimed in his 
articles and in his lectures (I saw his experiments in 1991 and later) 
his authority for it.

Alexander V. Frolov

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 21:51:30 1997
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Greg  et al

> What did you use as the upper magnet assembly?

One of the 70x45x5mm rings, not ideal, only what was on hand.

> Does the lower assy still spin if you don't input any energy?  Moving
> the upper assy will input energy to the lower assy.

It comes to a wobbly stand still. NB The magnets have crashed together
so often now I feel they are losing their effectiveness. Everybody has
to have a shot! 8-)

> Don't get too carried away yet.  Lets do more testing to understand
> what's going on.

Leave the theorising to you... not my forte.

Cheers... Rex

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 22:41:58 1997
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Subject: Re: Brandt/Tesla Switch
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At 05:22 PM 3/3/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Is there a US patent # for the Kromrey generator? If so could someone post it.
>crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
>WESLEY CROSIAR 
>PO BOX 268 
>SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249
>
>
USA Patent 3,374,376, issued 3/19/68

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 23:15:52 1997
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From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
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>
>Is there a US patent # for the Kromrey generator? If so could someone post it.
>crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
>WESLEY CROSIAR 
>PO BOX 268 
>SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249
>
>

Yes! (I have it in my hands.)

Patent No. 3,374,376 "Electric Generator" by Raymond Kromrey, Jan. 9, 1964.

Zack


--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 00:23:25 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 03:10:19 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: Re : Re: Hamel Spinning disk
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Hi Wesley, Hi all,

I have built the first test model of Hamel spinner disc today, I use 8
ferrite magnets 25x5x40 mm magnetic poles inward mounted in 10 cm PVC
cylinder. For the spinning device I use my Levitron on glass sheet ( it it a
very frictioneless 28 mm ring magnet mounted as a spinning top ). The
"magnetic gate" is put 50 mm above the glass sheet with a FIXED appartus. The
Levitron device is spinning for about 6 mn align on magnetic gate axis. You
can notice that as Levitron device is floating normaly in the air at 40 mm
above the Levitron magnet platform for 2 mn 30. The Levitron device have a
weight of 22 gr. The levitating time is less than on Hamel configuration
because the precession momentum needed to maintain the stability of Levitron
in magnetic levitation is not use in this case......This was the first test,
I have color pictures of this for those want to receive. The second test
planned will be with a ring magnet and a steel ball.....stay tuned.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
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-----------

<<  I have made the hamel magnetic spinner It does not spin on a fixed axis
 at least not yet. It appears to spin for a long time when held by hand
 because of loss of friction. John says that it will pull a magnet through
 the gate, but I do not think that it will work when the loop is completed.
 This would be the same setup as the tomi.
 crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
 WESLEY CROSIAR  >>

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 01:30:41 1997
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Date: 03 Mar 97 21:18:21 EST
From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@CompuServe.COM>
To: list owner <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: SEG
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On Monday March 3rd Mathias wrote:

"Did anyone notice that Bedini's Hi-Speed Spinner
   http://www.keelynet.com/energy/bedhispd.htm
very much resembles a Searl Effect Generator (S.E.G.)?
[Searl also uses neodymium in his magnets.]"

YES!

Mathias, I have a 12 or thirteen page document on construction of the SEG but
as you will probably guess, the information leaves much to be desired.
Your last comment from the above post mentioned that Searl used "8 thin magnets"
for his edge magnets. Do you have any information on the construction of the
SEG?
Would very much like to have any new information on the SEG.
Are the edge magnets rotating on spindles? And if so, do they revolve around the

big ring magnet? Or does the big ring magnet revolve itself?
Would appreciate anything you could forward!

Thanks,
Glenn Hinton
7510 Clairemont Mesa Blvd. #202
San Diego, Ca. 92111
 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 01:33:21 1997
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Hello Alexander et al

That's very interesting and tantalising! Please tell us more about the
Ostrikov experiments you saw in 1991 and subsequentially.
 
> I don't know number of the patent, but Dr. Ostrikov claimed in his
> articles and in his lectures (I saw his experiments in 1991 and later)
> his authority for it.

Cheers... Rex

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 02:44:20 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 20:49:05 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hamel Spinning disk
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JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> Have you an answer about your question "Does rotation continue if the upper
> magnetic ring is held by a fixed structure and NOT the hand?"
> I anyone have made Hamel spinning experiment, I would like to know how many
> time the ring turn alone on a FIXED STRUCTURE ??
> And what do you think of the importance of steel ball ? Is it only for
> reducing friction or for changing the shape of the magnetic field ?
> 
> Truly,
> 
> Jean-Louis Naudin

Hi Jean-Louis,

The steel ball is only for friction, I thinks.  

Have built my own version,
but while I can get it to spin, it always slows down unless I move the
upper magnet assy.

While I really try to think outside of the square, I am struggling to
find a way this thing could work.  I can keep it spinning by moving and
tilting the upper assy slowly from side to side.  This changes the force
vector to one side of the ring/ball and precession takes over.  This
alteration of the force vector and precession, I can understand and my
hand movements confirm this theory.  I have learned to do this with very
little movement.  How is your testing going?

I am waiting on more info from John Bedini's testing of a fixed upper
assy.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 02:56:17 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 21:08:45 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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wesly crosiar wrote:
> 
> >TO ALL: I have made the hamel magnetic spinner It does not spin on a fixed axis
> at least not yet. It appears to spin for a long time when held by hand
> because of loss of friction. John says that it will pull a magnet through
> the gate, but I do not think that it will work when the loop is completed.
> This would be the same setup as the tomi.

Hi Wesley,

I sent John Bedini a series of Gif images of a magnet moving through
his flux gate.  You are correct, it will not move through as it will
be strongly repelled around the point where is is just starting to leave
the flux gate.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 10:21:21 1997
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Thanks Mike and zack for the patent #
Has anyone tried Johns latest version of the hamel magnet motor using nine
radio shack Neodyneum magnets mounted on the outer edge of the ball magnet.
I think it is worthwhile to check John Bedini's page to check out his latest
developments. He told me he was going to keep at it until he makes a usable
permanent magnet motor. When he succeeds he will post it. He also told me
that with the neo magnets the thing really takes off and Will opperate in a
fixed position.
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 17:05:58 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:46:30 -0700 (MST)
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From: dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca (Dwayne Trynchuk)
Subject: Magnetic Gates
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Hi all,

   Can anyone give me some more info regarding magnetic gates and the
relationship that other magnets have to that gate?


     Thanks,

     Dwayne

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 18:40:36 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 20:22:50
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <clf@startext.net>
Subject: Re: wheredjago?
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At 12:06 PM 3/3/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Its awfully quiet on the freenrg-l at the moment. Is there a conference
>on at the moment or something that is dragging everyone away?
>
>I have received just a trickle of email from this list over the last few
>days. 
>
>Maxwell's Demon.
>
>
shhh  where thinking...

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 19:09:34 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 21:38:33 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
Subject: bedini generator theory
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I have been looking at bedini's plans for his free energy generator from
http://rand.nidlink.com/~john1/foreward.htm and have some questions that I
hope someone can help clarify.  He says that if we can ring something at its
resonant frequency and, if that something is imbedded in the vacuum, we can
tap off the resonance in vacuum stress, without tapping energy directly from
the embedded system we rang into oscillation.  He goes on to say that an
ordinary lead-acid storage battery can be used as the accumulator to hold
the ions that we wish to shock into oscillation.  He also says that the
lead-acid batteries have a resonant ionic frequency in the 1-6 MHz range.

>From my calculations he is no where near this range.

He has 6 magnets spinning past 6 coils at 2200 rpm.  Divide 2200rpm by 60 to
obtain 110/3 or 36.6666 revolutions per second.  Multiply this by 6 since
there are 6 magnets therefore they will pass a coil 6 times per revolution.
This yeilds 220 pulses per second...  220Hz this is no where near his stated
battery resonance of 1-6 MHz.

If anyone can find an error in my thinking or understands the priciples
involved better than I, I would appreciate the help.  I am planning on
building one of these devices as soon as I figure out what parts to purchase
based on the RPM range I think I need.


Dave DeLeo
ddeleo@ix.netcom.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 19:41:19 1997
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From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: Re: bedini generator theory
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At 09:38 PM 3/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I have been looking at bedini's plans for his free energy generator from
>http://rand.nidlink.com/~john1/foreward.htm and have some questions that I
>hope someone can help clarify.  He says that if we can ring something at its
>resonant frequency and, if that something is imbedded in the vacuum, we can
>tap off the resonance in vacuum stress, without tapping energy directly from
>the embedded system we rang into oscillation.  He goes on to say that an
>ordinary lead-acid storage battery can be used as the accumulator to hold
>the ions that we wish to shock into oscillation.  He also says that the
>lead-acid batteries have a resonant ionic frequency in the 1-6 MHz range.
>
>>From my calculations he is no where near this range.
>
>He has 6 magnets spinning past 6 coils at 2200 rpm.  Divide 2200rpm by 60 to
>obtain 110/3 or 36.6666 revolutions per second.  Multiply this by 6 since
>there are 6 magnets therefore they will pass a coil 6 times per revolution.
>This yeilds 220 pulses per second...  220Hz this is no where near his stated
>battery resonance of 1-6 MHz.
>
>If anyone can find an error in my thinking or understands the priciples
>involved better than I, I would appreciate the help.  I am planning on
>building one of these devices as soon as I figure out what parts to purchase
>based on the RPM range I think I need.
>
>
>Dave: These are magneto pulses. What you may have is 220 pulses of one to
six MHZ. You must  have a scope.
>
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 20:03:40 1997
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Message-ID: <331DF42E.7898@triode.net.au>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 14:31:10 -0800
From: Maxwell <max@triode.net.au>
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Charles Ford wrote:
> shhh  where thinking...

I wondered what that noise was! I can hear it from here! ;-)


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 20:31:18 1997
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 21:07:49
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <clf@startext.net>
Subject: Scaner Keyboard
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Howdy:

I have just run accross somthing great that some of yall may find usefull.

A scaner keyboard.  The scanner does 400 DPI in black and white like a fax,
or it will do 8 bit grey scale for photos. It will scan anything from an
8&1/2 by 11 to a large postage stamp.  Its $135.00 US and ships UPS for
about $17.00 with COD inside the USA  There brand new in the box with
warranty.  The thing comes with Paper Port and OCR software so it can read
a document into a text file, or a JPG, BMP, GIF, TIF..... This scanner is
built into a 105 key keyboard [has windows macro] so it wont add cluter to
your desk. and plugs into a 9 pin serial port so it shuld not add cluter to
your hardware config.  works just spiffy in win 3.1 and 95 also tried it on
my 386 [a bit slow but OK] 

This product has ben discontinued by Compaq and there are only about 60
left so if you want one you must move fast.  For questions ask Charlie [me]
clf@fwst.net or Bob [my boss "tell him that I sent you"] memorybank@why.net

My apologys for bugin yall with junk mail but I reckon this thang wold be
great for thems patent docks and drawins and postin them articels...

Charlie Ford
clf@fwst.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 20:49:23 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:37:45 -0700 (MST)
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From: dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca (Dwayne Trynchuk)
Subject: Scalar Waves
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Hi all,

   Can somebody further explain to me the theory behind scalar waves.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 21:50:40 1997
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 00:20:33 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
Subject: Re: bedini generator theory
Resent-Message-ID: <"Zl9To3.0.yM.XFG7p"@mx1>
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>At 09:38 PM 3/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>I have been looking at bedini's plans for his free energy generator from
>>http://rand.nidlink.com/~john1/foreward.htm and have some questions that I
>>hope someone can help clarify.  He says that if we can ring something at its
>>resonant frequency and, if that something is imbedded in the vacuum, we can
>>tap off the resonance in vacuum stress, without tapping energy directly from
>>the embedded system we rang into oscillation.  He goes on to say that an
>>ordinary lead-acid storage battery can be used as the accumulator to hold
>>the ions that we wish to shock into oscillation.  He also says that the
>>lead-acid batteries have a resonant ionic frequency in the 1-6 MHz range.
>>
>>>From my calculations he is no where near this range.
>>
>>He has 6 magnets spinning past 6 coils at 2200 rpm.  Divide 2200rpm by 60 to
>>obtain 110/3 or 36.6666 revolutions per second.  Multiply this by 6 since
>>there are 6 magnets therefore they will pass a coil 6 times per revolution.
>>This yeilds 220 pulses per second...  220Hz this is no where near his stated
>>battery resonance of 1-6 MHz.
>>
>>If anyone can find an error in my thinking or understands the priciples
>>involved better than I, I would appreciate the help.  I am planning on
>>building one of these devices as soon as I figure out what parts to purchase
>>based on the RPM range I think I need.
>>
>>
>>Dave: These are magneto pulses. What you may have is 220 pulses of one to
>six MHZ. You must  have a scope.
>>
>crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
>WESLEY CROSIAR 
>PO BOX 268 
>SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249
>
>
>

Thanks, but could you please explain how to obtain/adjust a pulse into the 1
to 6 MHz range?  Would it be a function of the number of windings on the
coils or the speed of the magnets past the coils, or something else entirely?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 21:53:03 1997
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:40:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony Rusi <windski@eskimo.com>
To: Bob Paddock <bpaddock@execpc.com>
cc: Multiple recipients of list <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Project Rainbow (fwd)
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On Fri, 3 May 1996, Bob Paddock wrote:

> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 17:56:54 -0600
> >From: Mike McLaren <mmclaren@lexicom.ab.ca>
> >To: billb@eskimo.com
> >Subject: Re: Project Rainbow
> >
> >Hi my name is Mike McLaren I am a Physicist from Calgary Alberta
> >Canada.I am trying to locate any information on Einstein's Unified
> >Field Theory or other information on Project Rainbow. I you have any
> >leads please contact me at our home page
> >
> >www.lexicom.ab.ca:80/~steadystate
> 
> 	"Zur Einheitlichen Feld-Theorie" is the alleged
> "unfinished/incomplete/missing" paper.  See "Sitzung der
> physikalisch-mathematischen" by Von A. Einstein Klasse vom
> 10. Januar 1929.
> 
check out "a new model of the universe" by p d uspenskii 1934
           "colorado notes..." n tesla 1978
           "rings of operators" kaplinsky 1968
           "von neumann algebras" dixmier 
            "ssecrets cold war technologies" gerry   vassilatos 1997

what hav ve you found?

Tony Rusi - mechanical  enginerineer

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 01:25:25 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:46:12 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Re: Hamel Spinning disk
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<< Suj :	Re: Hamel Spinning disk
 Date :	04/03/1997  11:49:18
  >>

Dear All,

I have put the picture of Hamel spinning disc (  first test version ) on my
web server (in JLN Lab's pictures gallery) that I have described in previous
e-mail....

    :-)

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 01:30:15 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:46:09 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : bedini generator theory
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>From : Jean-Louis Naudin
To : ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
On 05/03/1997  03:55:08, you wrote :

<< 
Suj :	bedini generator theory
Date :	05/03/1997  03:55:08
From:	ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
>>
<<
He has 6 magnets spinning past 6 coils at 2200 rpm.  Divide 2200rpm by 60 to
 obtain 110/3 or 36.6666 revolutions per second.  Multiply this by 6 since
 there are 6 magnets therefore they will pass a coil 6 times per revolution.
 This yeilds 220 pulses per second...  220Hz this is no where near his stated
 battery resonance of 1-6 MHz.
  >>

It is possible to obtain battery resonance with the GSEA device, I get 1 to 4
Mhz non linear wave with negative power back to battery. See my test report
on web server....   :-)

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 01:35:43 1997
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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:12:31 +1100
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: Lord Kelvin's generator
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At 09:25 PM 3/1/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Has anyone made the dripping water Lord Kelvin generator. I made one but she
>didn't generator electricity. It's very humid out and that doesn't help. Any
>suggestions from out there in the land of high wierdness.
>
>Thanks in advance. Byrun.
>
>
>The model shown on my web site
http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel
 was constucted by a british tv educational program and displayed
working on tv.giving a one to two inch spark every twenty seconds.
I have built one myself but haven't had time to run it.

I made a smaller version syrine needles but only heard the pop of
electricity when  I
touched  it with my hands.
so I built the larger unit illustrated.
Geoff

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 02:14:24 1997
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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:37:39 +1100
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Subject: Re: wheredjago?
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At 08:22 PM 3/4/97, you wrote:
>At 12:06 PM 3/3/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>Its awfully quiet on the freenrg-l at the moment. Is there a conference
>>on at the moment or something that is dragging everyone away?
>>
>>I have received just a trickle of email from this list over the last few
>>days. 
>>
>>Maxwell's Demon.
>>
>>
>shhh  where thinking...
>
>
>Maybe off actually constructing something like me
Geoff

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 04:42:01 1997
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 07:24:51 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
Subject: battery resonance
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Using bedini's theory that you can shock a standard lead acid car battery
into oscillation and then tap off the resulting energy, would it then be
feasable to instead of the motor-magnet-coil setup he has to simply have the
following system.

Battery A -- hooked up to a circuit which pulses the output at the resonant
frequancy of a battery (1-6Mhz as stated by Bedini) into a second battery
Battery B.

Battery B -- excess energy could then be withdrawn from this battery and
used to power a load with out being discharged due to the resulting ZPE.

Eventualy Battery A will begin to loose its charge from feeding the timed
pulses to Battery B.  When it reaches a certain level have the circuit
switch the batteries.  (Battery A powers the load, and Battery B pulse
charges Battery A)

It's just a theory but if anyone thinks it has any possible merit I may try
to build it.  Also what would be able to switch something on and off at 1-6
Mhz?  Would a solid state relay be able to handle this?

Dave DeLeo
ddeleo@ix.netcom.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 06:47:24 1997
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 09:33:09 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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Subject: Re: bedini generator theory
References: <199703050243.UAA00183@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com>
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David DeLeo wrote:
> 
> I have been looking at bedini's plans for his free energy generator from
> http://rand.nidlink.com/~john1/foreward.htm and have some questions that I
> hope someone can help clarify.  He says that if we can ring something at its
> resonant frequency and, if that something is imbedded in the vacuum, we can
> tap off the resonance in vacuum stress, without tapping energy directly from
> the embedded system we rang into oscillation.  He goes on to say that an
> ordinary lead-acid storage battery can be used as the accumulator to hold
> the ions that we wish to shock into oscillation.  He also says that the
> lead-acid batteries have a resonant ionic frequency in the 1-6 MHz range.
> 
> >From my calculations he is no where near this range.
> 
> He has 6 magnets spinning past 6 coils at 2200 rpm.  Divide 2200rpm by 60 to
> obtain 110/3 or 36.6666 revolutions per second.  Multiply this by 6 since
> there are 6 magnets therefore they will pass a coil 6 times per revolution.
> This yeilds 220 pulses per second...  220Hz this is no where near his stated
> battery resonance of 1-6 MHz.

If you look at a single pulse applied to the battery, you should see the
battery 'ring' at it's resonant frequancy.  This is where the higher
frequancies enter the picture.  We don't absolutely need to start the
ringing at it's resonant frequancy.

When the battery is excited in this manner, and rings, a conventional
(chemical) process known as shock excitation occrures in the
electrolyte.  Shock exctitation can break down the electrolyte, and
reverse depolarization in some cells.  It many types of cells, from
carbon-zinc to Li-Ion and Ni-MHD cells, shock excitation will cause the
battery to deliver additional energy (even is it's already 'dead' of
'fully' discharged.

This process depleates the electrolyte in time, and causes a loss of
energy storeage capacity.  The battery cells cannot withstand shock
excitation for very long, and will fail in time.

It is importnat to seperate energy delivered from the fully conventional
process of shock excitation from 'free' energy produced by
unconventional processes.

> If anyone can find an error in my thinking or understands the priciples
> involved better than I, I would appreciate the help.  I am planning on
> building one of these devices as soon as I figure out what parts to purchase
> based on the RPM range I think I need.
> 
> Dave DeLeo
> ddeleo@ix.netcom.com

Jean-Louis Naudin has on web page with some data from a Bedini generator
that you might wish to review before starting construction.  This can be
found at:

http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

There had also been a discussion of Bedini's test results on the
freenrg-l list recently.  John Bedini has been very responsive to email
questions on these matters, and his responses have been quoted in this
discussion thread.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 08:06:12 1997
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Experiments by Ostrikov is not area of my interest.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 09:07:37 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:41:44 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970305114141_-836671571@emout13.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, billb@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com,
        ine@padrak.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au, harti@bbtt.de
cc: john1@rand.nidlink.com
Subject: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Resent-Message-ID: <"XUqcR.0.RJ.eCQ7p"@mx1>
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Dear ALL,

I have experimented myself SUCCESSFULLY today the John Bedini's Magnetic
Gate.
The result is real and undeniable and you could test it yourself with some
components. You have NOW a good way for OVERUNITY !!!!
In my experiment, I have used only ferrite magnets and basic components.

I am convinced now that it is possible to extract the FREE ENERGY from a
Bedini's Magnetic gate. In my test a cylindrical magnet gently pushed into
the gate rushs out with a thrust 2.85 greater than in the other way, without
additional energy. IT WORKS !!!!!

I have put schemes, tests results and all informations that you need to build
a successfull experiment of this Magnetic Gate in my Web server at : 

http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 10:04:55 1997
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From: Epitaxy <epitaxy@localaccess.com>
Subject: Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
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Dear Jean

I have verified that the mechanical force on one side of the gate is stronger.

HOWEVER !!!  I have also noticed that the mechanical force on the "weak'
side of the gate reaches further out than the force on the "strong" side.

This is similar to discharging an electrical capacitor; 10 Amps for 1
second  VS. 1 Amp for 10 seconds.  In both cases the discharged energy is
the same.

Could you please verify that the DISTANCE of attraction/repulsion on either
side of the gate is DIFFERENT.  

The total energy on one side of the magnetic gate EQUALS the integrated
force VS. distance !!!


In your opinion, is this "distance" difference offsetting the "force"
difference ?




At 12:02 PM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear Free Energy Men,
>
>I have experimented myself SUCCESSFULLY today the John Bedini's Magnetic
>Gate.
>The result is real and undeniable and you could test it yourself with some
>components. You have NOW a good way for OVERUNITY !!!!
>In my experiment, I have used only ferrite magnets and basic components.
>
>I am convinced now that it is possible to extract the FREE ENERGY from a
>Bedini's Magnetic gate. In my test a cylindrical magnet gently pushed into
>the gate rushs out with a thrust 2.85 greater than in the other way, without
>additional energy. IT WORKS !!!!!
>
>I have put schemes, tests results and all informations that you need to build
>a successfull experiment of this Magnetic Gate in my Web server at : 
>
>http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>Truly,
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
>my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
>Home_Page</A>
><A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 15:25:49 1997
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Message-Id: <199703052244.OAA31555@mx1.eskimo.com>
From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." <jshaffer@csrlink.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: <jdecker@keelynet.com>
Subject: Fw: CNN Report on Magnetic Levitation of organic objects:  More info?
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:47:49 -0500
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> From: Robert Herloski <herloski@frontiernet.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
> Subject: CNN Report on Magnetic Levitation of organic objects:  More info?
> Date: Sunday, March 02, 1997 3:57 AM
> 
> Referring to the report by CNN and Headline News on
> a lab in the Netherlands that reported magnetic
> levitation of nonmagnetic/organic objects, such as
> frogs, grass, flowers, etc.
> 
> http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9702/28/wt.04.html
> 
> Does anyone have more information on this?
> 
> -- Bob Herloski

I went to the URL referred to, and it was a *very* brief report, that made *NO*
mention of how the effect was supposed to work.  In fact, it DIDN'T EVEN GIVE A
NAME OF THE LABORATORY OR PERSONS INVOLVED.

This is *very* strange.  I haven't been able to find any other information on
the net either.

Could this be an extension of the Finnish work?


"I don't want the world -- I just want your half."
	--T.M.B.G.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 15:32:46 1997
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Sender: mathias@stacken.kth.se
Message-ID: <331DFE42.2BB46E3C@stacken.kth.se>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 00:14:10 +0100
From: Mathias Bage <mathias@stacken.kth.se>
Organization: Netcraft Scandinavia
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MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: SEG
References: <970304021820_103510.1772_IHL48-1@CompuServe.COM>
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Glenn F. Hinton wrote:
>[snip]
> YES!
> 
> Mathias, I have a 12 or thirteen page document on construction of the SEG but
> as you will probably guess, the information leaves much to be desired.

I would guess so.  What document is it?  The Sandberg report?

> Your last comment from the above post mentioned that Searl used "8 thin magnets"
> for his edge magnets. Do you have any information on the construction of the
> SEG?

The rollers (=edge magnet, 8 thin magnets in a pile) revolve around the
fixed ring.  Normally, one will use 12 rollers in a minimum
configuration.

> Would very much like to have any new information on the SEG.
> Are the edge magnets rotating on spindles? And if so, do they revolve around the
> big ring magnet? Or does the big ring magnet revolve itself?

Standing still, the rollers stick to the outer rim of the ring.
When they've gained some speed, they won't touch the ring any more.
See your local Searl website for some pictures!


/Mathias

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 16:07:00 1997
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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:48:20 -0600 (CST)
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From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: battery resonance
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>
>Using bedini's theory that you can shock a standard lead acid car battery
>into oscillation and then tap off the resulting energy, would it then be
>feasable to instead of the motor-magnet-coil setup he has to simply have the
>following system.
>
>Battery A -- hooked up to a circuit which pulses the output at the resonant
>frequancy of a battery (1-6Mhz as stated by Bedini) into a second battery
>Battery B.
>
>Battery B -- excess energy could then be withdrawn from this battery and
>used to power a load with out being discharged due to the resulting ZPE.
>
>Eventualy Battery A will begin to loose its charge from feeding the timed
>pulses to Battery B.  When it reaches a certain level have the circuit
>switch the batteries.  (Battery A powers the load, and Battery B pulse
>charges Battery A)
>
>It's just a theory but if anyone thinks it has any possible merit I may try
>to build it.  Also what would be able to switch something on and off at 1-6
>Mhz?  Would a solid state relay be able to handle this?
>
>Dave DeLeo
>ddeleo@ix.netcom.com
>
>

This is exactly what the Brandt-Tesla switch is supposed to do. Bedini 
briefly touched on the theory but Thomas Bearden went into much more detail.

I haven't had any luck geting it to work yet; I think I haven't adjusted 
it to the correct frequency (or it's the cheap NiCd batteries I got.)

Zack



--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 16:30:46 1997
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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 11:11:37 -0800
From: Maxwell <max@triode.net.au>
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The URL for John Searl site is http://www.john-searl.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 18:12:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:41:26 -0800
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey)
Subject: The Tesla Name Project
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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:22:58 -0800
To: pgb@padrak.com (ALL Send Lists BCC)
From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey)
Subject: The Tesla Name Project

This Project is called:  "The Tesla Name Project".

Please forward this email to anyone that you think may be interested.


It has been brought several times to my attention and to the attention of
others that the name:

"Nikloa Tesla"

has been missing in lots of lists of inventors, especially in those lists
in science and electrical engineering where other known liars and frauds
are listed, such as Edison and Marconi.  [Edison reneged on a financial
business promise to Tesla, and Marconi used Tesla Patents without any
permission...]

The incident that really gets to me personally is the fact that the name
"Nikola Tesla" is not to be found anywhere on or near the "Back To The
Future" ride at Universal Studios, in Los Angles, CA, where there are lists
of inventors having certain offices within that ride, and the attendees
going on the ride must enter one of these offices (with certain names
listed on the door) in order to get onto a motion-machine car.  No Tesla...

How can a "Flux Capacitor" exist without Nikola Tesla?

How can Hoover Dam work without Nikola Tesla?

How can your computer work without...?

OK - you get it!

Now - what to do about this...

I do not think this problem is religious,
although it may have some minor political overtones - and

It still can be solved, and completed.

"The Tesla Name Project" is an on-going Project that has started and is
rapidly gaining momentum to establish the name of "Nikola Tesla" within all
documented major inventor and scientist lists of importance, and to get it
added in all places in which such names are listed - including at Universal
Studios (above).

This is an unorganized grass-roots effort that will happen only because:

YOU SAID SO.


OK - So say:  "I SAID SO!"

Thank you.

Now, go make it happen!

If you would like my assistance,
please email me whatever mailing addresses, telephone numbers, office and
home telephone numbers and addresses, email addresses, etc., that I can
write to and complain to that this company and that agency are overtly
lying in their public advertizements in this regard and that we demand that
they make the appropriate changes quickly to tell the truth with honesty
and integrity.

A web site has been established to hold ALL of the data that is sent back
to me for everyone's use at:

     http://www.padrak.com/tesla/

If we do not do it, who will?

If not now, when?


Dr. Patrick G. Bailey
President, Institute for New Energy
http://www.padrak.com/ine/


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 18:12:51 1997
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 19:11:43
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <clf@startext.net>
Subject: Re: wheredjago?
In-Reply-To: <331DF42E.7898@triode.net.au>
References: <3.0.1.16.19970304202250.09f73dd2@fwst.net>
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At 02:31 PM 3/5/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Charles Ford wrote:
>> shhh  where thinking...
>
>I wondered what that noise was! I can hear it from here! ;-)
>
>
click bzzzzz wherr??  POP  BANG!!!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 21:00:30 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 05:46:52 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33235990.15242853@mail.netspace.net.au>
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On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:41:44 -0500 (EST), JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

>Dear ALL,
>
>I have experimented myself SUCCESSFULLY today the John Bedini's Magnetic
>Gate.
>The result is real and undeniable and you could test it yourself with some
>components. You have NOW a good way for OVERUNITY !!!!
>In my experiment, I have used only ferrite magnets and basic components.
>
>I am convinced now that it is possible to extract the FREE ENERGY from a
>Bedini's Magnetic gate. In my test a cylindrical magnet gently pushed into
>the gate rushs out with a thrust 2.85 greater than in the other way, without
>additional energy. IT WORKS !!!!!
>
[snip]
Try putting two gates, one behind the other, and see if you get more than
2.85 times. If so, then you should be able to put several of them around a
circular centre tube, sort of like a particle accelerator. Then if it is
really OU, the ferrite rod will keep accelerating 'round and 'round.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 21:51:23 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:39:44 -0600
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Tesla Name Project
Resent-Message-ID: <"MI2m62.0.4M3.bWb7p"@mx2>
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>Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:22:58 -0800
>To: pgb@padrak.com (ALL Send Lists BCC)
>From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey)
>Subject: The Tesla Name Project
>
>This Project is called:  "The Tesla Name Project".
>
>Please forward this email to anyone that you think may be interested.
>
>
>It has been brought several times to my attention and to the attention of
>others that the name:
>
>"Nikloa Tesla"
>
>has been missing in lots of lists of inventors, especially in those lists
>in science and electrical engineering where other known liars and frauds
>are listed, such as Edison and Marconi.  [Edison reneged on a financial
>business promise to Tesla, and Marconi used Tesla Patents without any
>permission...]
>
>The incident that really gets to me personally is the fact that the name
>"Nikola Tesla" is not to be found anywhere on or near the "Back To The
>Future" ride at Universal Studios, in Los Angles, CA, where there are lists
>of inventors having certain offices within that ride, and the attendees
>going on the ride must enter one of these offices (with certain names
>listed on the door) in order to get onto a motion-machine car.  No Tesla...
>
>How can a "Flux Capacitor" exist without Nikola Tesla?
>
>How can Hoover Dam work without Nikola Tesla?
>
>How can your computer work without...?
>
>OK - you get it!
>
>Now - what to do about this...
>
>I do not think this problem is religious,
>although it may have some minor political overtones - and
>
>It still can be solved, and completed.
>
>"The Tesla Name Project" is an on-going Project that has started and is
>rapidly gaining momentum to establish the name of "Nikola Tesla" within all
>documented major inventor and scientist lists of importance, and to get it
>added in all places in which such names are listed - including at Universal
>Studios (above).
>
>This is an unorganized grass-roots effort that will happen only because:
>
>YOU SAID SO.
>
>
>OK - So say:  "I SAID SO!"
>
>Thank you.
>
>Now, go make it happen!
>
>If you would like my assistance,
>please email me whatever mailing addresses, telephone numbers, office and
>home telephone numbers and addresses, email addresses, etc., that I can
>write to and complain to that this company and that agency are overtly
>lying in their public advertizements in this regard and that we demand that
>they make the appropriate changes quickly to tell the truth with honesty
>and integrity.
>
>A web site has been established to hold ALL of the data that is sent back
>to me for everyone's use at:
>
>     http://www.padrak.com/tesla/
>
>If we do not do it, who will?
>
>If not now, when?
>
>
>Dr. Patrick G. Bailey
>President, Institute for New Energy
>http://www.padrak.com/ine/


In the "spirit" of that PRODIGAL GENIUS --

Hear Hear!  Well done.

Evan


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 22:39:09 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:30:02 -0600
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: The P.S. got excluded from the original post.....
Resent-Message-ID: <"RADhs1.0.hd4.gFc7p"@mx2>
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>If we do not do it, who will?
>
>If not now, when?
>
>
>Dr. Patrick G. Bailey
>President, Institute for New Energy
>http://www.padrak.com/ine/

P.S. And after we've succeeded with Tesla, perhaps we can promote the name
of one of the greatest doctors in our history: Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis*.

But for him, many of us would not be living today!

*Strongly recommended reading:  THE CRY & THE COVENANT by Morton Thompson


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 22:57:51 1997
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Message-ID: <331DF435.28B6@ipgeek.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 22:31:17 +0000
From: Albert Yang <lithium@ipgeek.com>
Reply-To: lithium@ipgeek.com
Organization: Oriental Guild Resources
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I have to agree, Tesla doesn't get credit for jack, although he is the man.  I was 
reading old accounts written by people who knew him, and they say that he use to, with a 
little machine, blow huge craters in the ground.  He had the power to call down 
lightning.  There was a book I was flipping through, it said that it had the "complete" 
works of Tesla in it, but it didn't even have half of the stuff.  Then this guy attempts 
to explain Tesla's thinking... what a joke, the guy didn't understand any of Tesla's 
work.  He called Telsa's machines "crude" and defying basic e&m, as if built by someone 
who didn't have a good grasp of e&m.  People like that should be sued for stupidity.

I do have to wonder though, if Tesla were alive today, and he went to an University, 
would he have done half of the things he did, or would he have been brianwashed and 
conformed to textbooks?  

In any case, I think everybody in this group gives Tesla the props he deserves.

Albert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 07:58:51 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:34:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970306103414_1216419863@emout16.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
cc: billb@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au, john1@rand.nidlink.com
Subject: Re : Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Resent-Message-ID: <"k-3693.0.wg4.vHk7p"@mx2>
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>From : Jean-Louis Naudin
To : All 

<<From:	epitaxy@LocalAccess.com (Epitaxy)
Resent-from:	vortex-l@eskimo.com
Reply-to:	vortex-l@eskimo.com
To:	vortex-l@eskimo.com

Dear Jean
I have verified that the mechanical force on one side of the gate is
stronger.

HOWEVER !!!  I have also noticed that the mechanical force on the "weak'
side of the gate reaches further out than the force on the "strong" side.

This is similar to discharging an electrical capacitor; 10 Amps for 1
second  VS. 1 Amp for 10 seconds.  In both cases the discharged energy is
the same.

Could you please verify that the DISTANCE of attraction/repulsion on either
side of the gate is DIFFERENT.  

The total energy on one side of the magnetic gate EQUALS the integrated
force VS. distance !!!


In your opinion, is this "distance" difference offsetting the "force"
difference ?

Epitaxy
>>

<<
 As you approach the magnetic gate with your little
train car or whatever, you are subtly pushing up a magnetic hill without
noticing it.  Then when you reach the point at which the gate grabs the
object and flings it across the room in its magnetic downhill run, you cannot
help but be amazed.  But put it in a circle and soon it is clear that it
won't keep going.  The slow climb up the magnetic hill can't be overcome by
the dramatic downhill slide.

Hal Puthoff
>>
<< Try putting two gates, one behind the other, and see if you get more than
 2.85 times. If so, then you should be able to put several of them around a
 circular centre tube, sort of like a particle accelerator. Then if it is
 really OU, the ferrite rod will keep accelerating 'round and 'round.
 
 
 Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
  >>

Thanks you at all, for your comments and suggestions about my experiment,

 I have tried to put two identical gates, today, the thrust is maintained
constant with a gap of 50 mm between then gates.

 After "my OVERUNITY OF ENTHUSIAM" yesterday....it's TIME FOR THINKING NOW...

 I think that the Bedini's magnetic gate is act like a nonlinear gateway for
the magnetic scalar potential energy. The best way of this magnetic gate is
to use this as a energy pump my objective is not to build a permanent
magnetic motor. I could notice that the evolution of kinetic energy of
cylindrical magnet through magnetic gate have relaxation waveform. I work on
QuickField simulation to tune finely the magnetic gate device and optimize
the efficiency. It's like a Tantale tank, the 50 mm gap must be adjust to
maintain the relaxation without additional energy. I think that it is
possible to tap free magnetic energy in non linearity zone (just after the
magnetic gate), where the magnetic flux begin to change (just after the top
of hill). The magnetic gate must act as Magnetic Energy Pump IF the speed of
the magnetic probe accelerate more than the normal run out speed. I
experiment this concept in my lab's with the dynamic magnetic compression
process. We can obtain the same result dynamicaly with the magnetic gate, to
obtain this time compression,  we need to inject little energy in the
circuit, with a coil for instance, but after regauging, I think that we
should collect more energy than the input. I work on this, stay tuned......

It's only theory, today......

As said Bob Shannon some days ago "In theory, there is no differance between
theory and practice, but in practice, there is."

I look forward to receive your comments and share the knowledge about this
subject.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 11:53:18 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:17:20 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703061917.NAA05614@firefly.prairienet.org>
From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
To: josephnewman@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Background on Bedini
Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org
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>
>>This is exactly what the Brandt-Tesla switch is supposed to do. Bedini
>>briefly touched on the theory but Thomas Bearden went into much more detail.
>>
>>snip--
>>
>>Zack
>
>Dear Zack,
>
>Bedini originally obtained "his" idea for the "Bedini" motor from
>conversations with Tom Bearden whom Bedini met via KABC during a series of
>interviews w/Bearden c. 1984.  Bearden in turn learned ideas about such
>motors from two individuals whom he sent from Huntsville, AL to Lucedale,
>MS to meet with Joseph Newman and "pick his brain" in early 1984 soon after
>Joe nationally appeared on the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather.  Joe has a
>number of letters from Bearden in 1984 congratulating him on his major and
>original discovery in electromagnetism.
>

Hello Evan,


No, No, No ... the Brandt-Tesla Switch has NO motors in it. It simply 
electronically switches banks of batteries from one to the other at RF 
frequencies or sub-harmonics of them.  The theory of operation is closely 
related to that described in "The Search For The Sparking of The Vacuum"
in Physics Today, Aug 1992, pgs 24-32. There is no relationship 
whatsoever to Mr. Newman's machine. The theory is that NEW electrons are 
actually CREATED from the Fermi Sea.

Zack


--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 12:57:36 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:40:12 -0600
To: w9sz@prairienet.org
From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Background on Bedini
Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"bn_O13.0.GA6.vio7p"@mx2>
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>>
>>>This is exactly what the Brandt-Tesla switch is supposed to do. Bedini
>>>briefly touched on the theory but Thomas Bearden went into much more detail.
>>>
>>>snip--
>>>
>>>Zack
>>
>>Dear Zack,
>>
>>Bedini originally obtained "his" idea for the "Bedini" motor from
>>conversations with Tom Bearden whom Bedini met via KABC during a series of
>>interviews w/Bearden c. 1984.  Bearden in turn learned ideas about such
>>motors from two individuals whom he sent from Huntsville, AL to Lucedale,
>>MS to meet with Joseph Newman and "pick his brain" in early 1984 soon after
>>Joe nationally appeared on the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather.  Joe has a
>>number of letters from Bearden in 1984 congratulating him on his major and
>>original discovery in electromagnetism.
>>
>
>Hello Evan,
>
>
>No, No, No ... the Brandt-Tesla Switch has NO motors in it. It simply
>electronically switches banks of batteries from one to the other at RF
>frequencies or sub-harmonics of them.  The theory of operation is closely
>related to that described in "The Search For The Sparking of The Vacuum"
>in Physics Today, Aug 1992, pgs 24-32. There is no relationship
>whatsoever to Mr. Newman's machine. The theory is that NEW electrons are
>actually CREATED from the Fermi Sea.
>
>Zack
>
>
>--

Dear Zack,

I was not referring specififically to the "Brandt-Tesla Switch" --- I am
aware that it is intended as a switching device rather than a "motor."

Regards,

Evan


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 16:42:34 1997
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Message-ID: <331F6CF2.7E5A@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 10:48:42 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net,
        freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Hamel Disc Tilt Simulations
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Hi All,

I have posted a series of 4 Gifs on the flux contours as the
Hamel Disc tilts.  I noticed that the flux density in and
around the ring magnet increases as the tilt increases.  This
is not what I would expect.  I will do more work to understand
this.  I have not been able to get my test setup to continue
spinning except by moving the upper magnet assy.

I have almost finished my Newman Balloon test rig.  I will
use voltages of 12, 150, 300 and 900 in the tests.  I will post
pictures of the results, good or bad.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 19:15:04 1997
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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 13:22:11 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: hschulze@collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: What is the DNMEC effect?
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Hi All,

I have been asked by many people to re-explain the DNMEC effect.

Will here goes.

The DNMEC generator I am working on is a modification of a flux gate
design where you have a magnetic circuit comprising of a magnet, coil,
air gap, moving ferromagnetic flux gate and ferromagnetic material
linking in all together in a "C" shape as below :


              |---------------------------------------|
              |  Rotating Drive Shaft (Non FerroMag)  |
              |---------------------------------------|
                             |        |
                             |        |  < Connecting Arm (Non Ferro)
                             |        |
                  |------------------------------|
                  |   FerroMagnetic Flux Gate    |
                  |                              |
                  |---------|          |---------|
                            |          |
                  |--------||----------|
|-----------------|        |            |--------|---------------|
|                 |        |            | Neo Dym|               |
|                 | Coil   |  Air Gap   | Magnet |               |
|       |---------|        |            |--------|-------|       |
|       |         |--------|                             |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |------------------------------------------------|       |
|                                                                |
|           Ferromagnetic Core Material                          |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|

A functional description follows:

1) As the flux gate rotates toward the air gap, flux density in the
core increases due to the approaching flux gate reducing the reluctance
(magnetic resistance) of the air gap.

2) As the core flux is changing, an emf will be induced in the coil.

3) As the coil is shorted, the induced emf will produce a current flow.

4) The coil's current flow will produce a magnetic field in the coil
which will oppose the increasing coil and core flux.

5) Due to the position of the magnet and coil adjacent to the air gap,
the opposing coil flux will increase the flux density outside of
the air gap in the region occupied by the flux gate.  This is one
of the new effects necessary of the DNMEC effect to work.

6) As the ferrite flux gate is outside of the air gap and its
ferromagnetic force of attraction is related to the flux density,
the flux gate will experience increased attraction into the air
gap.  

7) In all other flux gate designs known to me, the flux gate
will, at this point, experience reduced attraction due to the
mmf sources (coil and magnet) being buried (not adjacent to the
air gap) and air gap flux density reducing.

8) The increased attraction will be sensed by the drive motor as a
reduction in necessary drive torque and hence a reduction in drive 
motor current.

9) It is my observing drive motor current that I am attempting
to design a simple to build unit which will produce in excess of
a 10% reduction in drive current.  This design will be available to
any and all.

10) In my current designs, if the flux gate enters the air gap, the
effect dies and turns into a normal non OU flux gate generator.

11) In my opinion, the extra energy sources are the stiff aligned
domains in the Neo Dym Magnet and the soft aligned domains in the
moving flux gate.

I have verified each of the above steps (except 11) through other
testing, some of which I have posted here.  I can re-post any of
the Gifs which show each of the steps happening.

My testing to date has produced a 2-3% reduction in drive current and
my latest unit (the fifth) should produce at least 10-15%.

I invite all to critique the above on any basis you choose, just
don't reject it as rubbish without a fair hearing.  Give it a fair go!

All I ask for is your open mind.

Remember,  "None of us is as smart as ALL of us".

Good thinking.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 20:36:22 1997
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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:00:36 +1100
Message-Id: <199703070500.QAA11560@main.murray.net.au>
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re : Re: Hamel Spinning disk
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At 03:46 AM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
><< Suj :	Re: Hamel Spinning disk
>
><I have been reading the emails on this newgroups subject with interest and
thought 
the following experiment and observations may be of interest to some
>
>The following materials are needed

a 7/8 inch steel ball bearing
a inch tandy circular magnet
A larger two-three  inch or so donut magnet with the centre so that the ball
bearing will slip through it   for a guide to the right centre size.

Experiment

Place the one inch magnet on top of the ball bearing it does not needed to
be glued as
the magnet field will hold it in place.

Now with the larger magnet in one hand bring the larger one just over the
ball bearing
and magnet combination, about an inch or so above and hold it
there.(rupulsive mode)

If the bottom magnet is on the side bringing the top magnet into this
position will bring the ball bearing and magnet will become upright.

By carefull holding the upper magnet in the correct position and slighly tilting
it from time to time the ball bearing and magnet combination can be made to
travel
around the bottom diameter of the larger magnet in a spiral motion.
   
Please note the magnets do not touch each other

An additional note a hard surface allows this experiment to work better than an
plastic table covering for example. 

With a bit of practice the small magnet and ball bearing can be made to
circulate
in a circle for considerable amount of time.



Geoff

http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 22:47:37 1997
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 23:17:52 -0700 (MST)
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From: dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca (Dwayne Trynchuk)
Subject: Howard Johnson/ Permanent Magnet Motor
Resent-Message-ID: <"y5Qoe3.0.E85.b9x7p"@mx1>
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Hi all,

   Does anyone remember back in the 70's about the permanent mag motor that
Howard Johnson had invented. If I remember correctly, he was issued a patent
in the spring of 1979. What ever became of it? Where is it now? Could some
of his ideas be used with the Bedini Magnetic Gate?

   Thanks,

   Dwayne Trynchuk

   dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 03:21:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA10574; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 02:56:29 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 02:56:29 -0800
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 05:55:18 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307055517_-937036925@emout19.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Subject: Magnetic Gate infos
Resent-Message-ID: <"xp7Wu.0.7b2.SH_7p"@mx1>
Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

I have put on my Web server, the latest picture and design of my 3 stages
Magnetic Gate Accelerator ( V3.0), and some pictures (with Quickfield) which
show the magnetic flux display when the magnetic probe pass through one
magnetic gate.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 04:21:32 1997
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Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:57:21 -0800
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:59:10 -0600
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: "Hypothesis" vs "Theory"
Resent-Message-ID: <"4pot4.0.FA7.m-o7p"@mx1>
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>It's only theory, today......
>
>As said Bob Shannon some days ago "In theory, there is no differance between
>theory and practice, but in practice, there is."


As astrophysicist Andrew G. Galambos once phrased it, "Those who say, "It's
all right in Theory but it won't work in practice," are ignorant of the
nature of the distinction between Theory and Hypothesis.  If it is 'all
right in Theory' it MUST work in practice since a Theory represents a
corroborated Hypothesis."

What they _should_ be saying is that, "It's all right in Hypothesis, but it
won't work in Theory."

This is a more operationally precise way of phrasing this expression with
regard to the distinction between "Hypothesis" and "Theory."

Best regards,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman@earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 07:48:31 1997
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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:02:02 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Larry Wharton <wharton@climate-f.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson/ Permanent Magnet Motor
Resent-Message-ID: <"oUGPM.0.r-7.0u28p"@mx1>
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>   Does anyone remember back in the 70's about the permanent mag motor that
>Howard Johnson had invented. If I remember correctly, he was issued a patent
>in the spring of 1979. What ever became of it? Where is it now? Could some
>of his ideas be used with the Bedini Magnetic Gate?
>   Dwayne Trynchuk

 I remember it.  Howard Johnson lived at the time fairly close to where I
was so I went over to take a look at it.  It was a big zero.  There was no
motor that ran by itself.  He did have a rotor that would move under the
influence of a hand-held magnet.  This device was just an example of the
power delivered by one's hand being magnetically transferred to the rotor.
The present work which requires the presence of a hand is equally
worthless.  The hand must be eliminated and replaced with a mechanical
support which has no possibility of delivering power.

Lawrence E. Wharton
NASA/GSFC code 913
Greenbelt MD 20771
(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 14:33:59 1997
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From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: Re: Magnetic Gate infos
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Jean: Will it complete a revolution?
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 16:06:25 1997
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Message-ID: <3320B147.15F7@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 09:52:31 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Earl LAGERGREN <E_L@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: mail servers? questions?
References: <199703071427_MC2-123D-30B5@compuserve.com>
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Earl LAGERGREN wrote:
> 
> RE free energy mail servers
> 
> which ones are worth subscribing to?
> 
> there is one called freenrg, possibly from Bill Beaty??
> and one called Vortex-L

They are both excellent value and are run by Bill.

> your comments appreciated.
> 
> ====
> Do you know if the Hamel spinner will work with a plastic or wooden ball
> instead of the steel ball?

My Hamel Disc uses a marble.  I haven't been able to get it to spin
except
by moving the upper magnet assy.  It is the movement of the upper magnet
assy
that transfers energy to the lower spinning assy.

> Oh, another question- if two equal-strength magnets are put together with
> opposite poles (attracting), does one end up with one magnet with twice the
> field strength?

In a small area outside the air gap between the two opposing poles, the
flux density will increase.  BUT, the magnets are being subjected to a
de-magnetising field and will move down their B/H curves.  This movement
down the B/H curve will limit the max field flux density you can
achieve.

> And another: if a straight cylinder magnet is bend around into a circle, does
> the field strenth change?

If the magnet is bend into a complete circle, the external field will
vanish as all the magnetic flux will be contained in the magnet.

> best regards, Earl

Hi Earl,

Hope this helps.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 18:33:41 1997
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Message-ID: <3320EA35.699B@triode.net.au>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 20:25:26 -0800
From: Maxwell <max@triode.net.au>
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Charles Ford wrote:
> 
> At 02:31 PM 3/5/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >Charles Ford wrote:
> >> shhh  where thinking...
> >
> >I wondered what that noise was! I can hear it from here! ;-)
> >
> >
> click bzzzzz wherr??  POP  BANG!!!

So THATS what it was! I thought it was the fan in the back of my PC
making weird noises.

We Will have to start another thread on synchronicity and the power of
ESP in the creative process!

Maxwell.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 20:02:17 1997
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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:02:02 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Larry Wharton <wharton@climate-f.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson/ Permanent Magnet Motor
Resent-Message-ID: <"oUGPM.0.r-7.0u28p"@mx1>
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>   Does anyone remember back in the 70's about the permanent mag motor that
>Howard Johnson had invented. If I remember correctly, he was issued a patent
>in the spring of 1979. What ever became of it? Where is it now? Could some
>of his ideas be used with the Bedini Magnetic Gate?
>   Dwayne Trynchuk

 I remember it.  Howard Johnson lived at the time fairly close to where I
was so I went over to take a look at it.  It was a big zero.  There was no
motor that ran by itself.  He did have a rotor that would move under the
influence of a hand-held magnet.  This device was just an example of the
power delivered by one's hand being magnetically transferred to the rotor.
The present work which requires the presence of a hand is equally
worthless.  The hand must be eliminated and replaced with a mechanical
support which has no possibility of delivering power.

Lawrence E. Wharton
NASA/GSFC code 913
Greenbelt MD 20771
(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:27:33 1997
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Message-ID: <33211102.5A3E@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 16:40:58 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: hschulze@collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: External Flux Density with Opposing Magnets
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Hi All,

Several readers have asked me for info on the effects of pushing
two opposing magnets closer together.  I have produced a series of
Gifs which show the effect.  There is a flux contour series where
the scaling contours (colours) have been locked to show the flux
contour changes better and a XY graph series where the actual
flux density through the centre of the air gap between the magnets
can be studied.

The series starts at 100mm gap and reduces to 0.5mm.  The
files are labeled as such :

  sn100nsb.gif  (flux contour with 100mm gap)
  sn100nsg.gif  (xy plot of flux density with 100mm gap)

down to
 
  sn0.5nsb.gif (flux contour with 0.5mm gap)
  sn0.5nsg.gif (xy plot of flux density with 0.5mm gap)

The zipped up Gifs have been sent to the DNMEC Gif list.

Enjoy.  As always, comments are welcome.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:41:40 1997
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Old-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:48:54 -0500
From: David Skues <skuesme@nternet.net>
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson/ Permanent Magnet Motor
References: <v03007800af45db24ca00@[128.183.200.195]>
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Larry Wharton wrote:
> 
> >   Does anyone remember back in the 70's about the permanent mag motor that
> >Howard Johnson had invented. If I remember correctly, he was issued a patent
> >in the spring of 1979. What ever became of it? Where is it now? Could some
> >of his ideas be used with the Bedini Magnetic Gate?
> >   Dwayne Trynchuk
> 
>  I remember it.  Howard Johnson lived at the time fairly close to where I
> was so I went over to take a look at it.  It was a big zero.  There was no
> motor that ran by itself.  He did have a rotor that would move under the
> influence of a hand-held magnet.  This device was just an example of the
> power delivered by one's hand being magnetically transferred to the rotor.
> The present work which requires the presence of a hand is equally
> worthless.  The hand must be eliminated and replaced with a mechanical
> support which has no possibility of delivering power.
> 
> Lawrence E. Wharton
> NASA/GSFC code 913
> Greenbelt MD 20771
> (301) 286-3486  Email - wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov
Dear Dwayne and Lawrence:
Yes I remember the 1979 Motor patented by Howard Johnson. My son found
it and we got a copy of it last October.
We built it twice so far.
The second one pulls itself 300 degrees around the circle. (Note, this
is how far the magnetic Wankel pulls itself before it enters the
regauging zone.See the attached gif's and htm site, I believe this is Mr
Hartmann's site in Germany)
The curved magnets Howard invented  do a great job of eliminating back
forces as the rotor passes over the north-north field edges.
The only hand power is once to regauge the rotor at the strongest back
force field poinr. From there the rotor ACCELERATES 300 degrees.No added
hand power, no push start to the rotor.
I just hold the rotor at the edge of the regauging zone and it pulls
itself 300 degrees foreward.
I hope I have said this enough ways for you to unbderstand it pulls
itself 300 degrees.
If you want my version of the Howard Johnson invention send me 25
standard 1" by 1 7/8" creamic block magnets and a front bicycle axle
assembly, or any 2 or 3 inch axle assembly that spins freely.
Send $5.00 for U.P.S.,and your shipping ADDRESS and I'll send you my
vesion of Mr. Johnson's motor.
It only takes a few hours to attach the magnets, so I can U.P.S. it back
to you in two or three days.
Howard Johnson's curved rotor magnets are a real pleasure to work with. 
They eliminate that backforce.
They create two powerballs of north- south force, without the usual
intervening mild connecting field that gets in the way of the stator
north-north field edges.
Th 1979 patrent is blocked out on the IBM womplex patent site.
One of these days I'll get it faxed into my computer so I can send it
over the internet.
If anybody wants a copy of the patent I'll do what I can to get to the
eskimo.com site
My son and I do not have access yet to a machine shop.  That is what is
needed to accurately space the magnets in Mr. Johnsons uniformly
increased spacing of the magnets. Dave and I space them by hand .  But
that leaves a random final space and an unworkBLE MAGNETIC FIELD FORM AT
THE LAST PART OF THE MAGNETS WHICH CREATS BACKFORCE.
iN A MACHJINE SHOP WE COULD QUICKLY MAKE A SETUP TO ADJUST  and lock
down the magnets with wingnut fasteners.
Mr. Johnson's motor has to have three sets of assymetric force fields.
This is to have two rotors cancel the backforces while the third one is
accelerating accross a magnet.  And then when one magnet has done its
work the second is acelerated while the other two curved magnets cancel
threir backfield forces.
That might be a little hard to understand.
If you like I could explain a little further, but not tonight.
In all we are having a wonderful time with Howard Johnson's Invention.
It works well, especially with neodymiums!!
And next we plan to get a machine shop vewrsion with wingnut adjustors. 
And to attach a regauging coil or two , anbd maybe a few coil electric
generator pickup coils.
But that will be later when funds accumulate.
 Yours Truly
Joe Skues

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--------------4F337FD562CA
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; name="WANKEL.HTM"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="WANKEL.HTM"
Content-Base: "file:///D|/JOE/MAGMOTOR/WANKEL.HTM"

<BASE HREF=3D"file:///D|/JOE/MAGMOTOR/WANKEL.HTM">

<HTML>



<HEAD>



<TITLE>Wankel page</TITLE>



<META name=3D"Author" content=3D"Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann">

<META name=3D"Description" content=3D"wankel page">

<META NAME=3D"GENERATOR" CONTENT=3D"Internet Assistant for Microsoft Word=
 2.0z">

</HEAD>

<BODY text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#C0C0C0" link=3D"#0000FF" vlink=3D"#551=
A8B" alink=3D"#008080" background=3D"back.jpg">



<P>

<CENTER><I><B><FONT SIZE=3D7 COLOR=3D#000000>Welcome to the </FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D7 COLOR=3D#FF0000><BLINK>magnetic

wankel motor page </BLINK></FONT></B></I></CENTER>

<HR width=3D"100%">





<I><B><FONT SIZE=3D6 COLOR=3D#000000>This is the news we learned to

know via Popular Science magazine from June 1979 about the magnetic

wankelmotor. It is not the Takahashi motor ! </FONT></B></I>

<HR>





<TABLE BORDER=3D1>

<TR><TD WIDTH=3D469><CENTER><IMG src=3D"wankel1.gif" border=3D3 height=3D=
642 width=3D464> </CENTER>



<CENTER><B><FONT SIZE=3D5 COLOR=3D#000000>How the magnetic rotary engine =
works </FONT></B></CENTER>



<CENTER><B><FONT SIZE=3D4 COLOR=3D#000000>Rotary electric motor has a sma=
ll cobalt magnet mounted on the edge ot its drumlike rotor. The magnet sp=
ans a narrow 60 degree sector of the rotor&#180;s circumference. The drum=
 spins within a stator ring composed mainly of a permanent ferrite magnet=
=2E But the stator has a 60-degree gap spanned by an electromagnet. A dis=
tributor geared to the rotor&#180;s center shaft times the flow of curren=
t to the electromagnet, energizing it briefly, just as the cobalt magnet =
swings past ths coils. The electromagnet exerts a repulsive force, kickin=
g tho rotor on its way. The magnet is switched off, and the rotor's speed=
 is maintained by magnetic repulsion between the cobalt magnet and the st=
ator walls. The cleverly designed stator ring actually adds impetus to th=
e rotor's swing. The ferrite ring is not a circle but is a section of a s=
piral, so its radius gradually expands in the direction of the drum's spi=
n. Thus the stator&#180;s eccentric outer curve encloses a wedge-shaped s=
pace between it and the spinning rotor. (This area is similar to the Wank=
el's elongated combustion chambers. ) The dimensions of the tapered air g=
ap increase gradually, starting at a tight 0.1 mm and slowly expanding to=
 5.0 mm. The moving cobalt segment always has more space between its lead=
ing edge and the stator than there is at its trailing edge. Since the rep=
ulsive force between magnets is strongest when they are closest together,=
 the cobalt magnet gets a constant boost from the rear. The magnet is spe=
eded on its way by this superior thrust along its trailing edge. The roto=
r thus travels a full 300 degrees of its path without consuming energy fr=
om the battery. At the end of this freeloading spin, the electromagnet is=
 again swltched on. Just as the cobalt magnet swings by, it gets another =
powered thrust to begin the next rotary cycle (cycle is illustrated at lo=
wer left). The impulse is precisely timed to start after the cobalt magne=
t reaches top dead center, so it gets boosted off in the right direction.=
 Two or more of these magnetic rotary modules can be combined to make an =
energy-efficient automotive power plant.</FONT></B></CENTER>

</TD><TD WIDTH=3D460><CENTER><IMG src=3D"wank2.jpg" border=3D3 height=3D4=
14 width=3D456></CENTER>



<CENTER><B><FONT SIZE=3D4>Experimental 45 hp rotary engine uses two separ=
ate rotor drums (A), each with three cobalt magnets (B-two shown) spaced =
60 degrees apart. The cobalt segments are so angled on the common shaft t=
hat there's equal radial spacing around the circle. Each rotor drum spins=
 past its own stator electromagnet (C) that is &quot;fired&quot; by the g=
ear-driven distributor (D). The multipoint distributor gives six power im=
pulses per revolution to kick each of the three cobalt segments along The=
y are propelled the rest of the way by the magnetic forces generated betw=
een them and the eccentrically shaped stator rings (E) that cause an ever=
-widening air gap to face the magnets. The small electric motor (F) crank=
-starts the rotors. When they are rewed up to 200 rpm, the distributor cu=
ts in the stator coils, and rotor speed increases, going up to 5400 rpm. =
Speed is controlled by pulsing the DC current to the electromagnets as wi=
th conventional battery-powered traction motors.</FONT></B></CENTER>

</TD></TR>



</TABLE>



<BR>

<HR>



<I><B><FONT SIZE=3D5 COLOR=3D#000000>In this time of uncertain gasoline

supplies, electric cars look increasingly attractive. So what's

keeping them off our roads? =


<BR>

Inefficient batteries are the main

problem. Battalions of researchers are working to develop better

batteries [PS, Feb.] and thus improve the electrics' speed and

cruising range. =


<BR>

But Kure Tekko, a Japanese engineering firm, has

attacked the problem from the other end by developing an engine

that reduces the power requirements of electric vehicles. The

new engine both weights less and draws less current than conventional

electric motors, so fewer batteries are needed to power the car.



<BR>

Jettisoning batteries, in turn, trims an electric's weight, improving

its speed and range.The Japanese nicknamed the new design =


the &quot;magnetic Wankel&quot;

because the engine's working principles resemble those of a Wankel-type

rotary. In fact, the new engine has some things in common with

a conventional auto engine. =


<BR>





Unlike most electric motors, the rotary

electric needs crank starting and has a distributor.

Like the Wankel, the new design

is also lighter and smaller than a gas engine of the same power.

And the electric rotary is a pygmy when compared to other electric

engines. The prototype 45 hp unit weights only 155 pounds against

440 pounds for a comparable electric motor. =


<BR>

The rotary engine

is compact enough to fit inside a two-foot cube, says Kure Tekko.

The forces of magnetic repulsion

are the key to the new engine's light weight and lowered power

demands. Since the engine gets most of its power from the interaction

between permanent magnets relatively small amounts of copper and

iron are needed for the electromagnets used. This cuts weight

and costs. =




<BR>





The permanent magnets are either cobalt or the plastic-bonded

ferrite type - both lightweight. The ferrite magnets can also

be made fairly cheaply by injection molding. Finally, most of

the engine castings, including the rotor, are made of light alloy.

<BR>



The prototype engine shown above

is still in an early development stage and no performance details

have been revealed. But the rotary electric may become more than

just an engineer's plaything. Kure Tekko is a sizeable firm that

supplies auto parts to Toyo Kogyo, the Mazda maker. Since Mazda

is the world leader in Wankel engines, Toyo Kogyo could have more

than a passing interest in the Wankel's electric counterpart.

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</FONT></B></I>

<HR width=3D"100%">





<I><B><FONT SIZE=3D6 COLOR=3D#000000>We are currently trying to rebuild

such a motor and will report on test results.</FONT></B></I>

<HR width=3D"100%">





<I><B><FONT SIZE=3D5 COLOR=3D#000000>back to the &nbsp;<A href=3D"index.h=
tm"><B><I>OVERUNITY homepage</I></B></A></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D7 COLOR=3D#00=
0000>

</FONT>

<BR>



2<FONT SIZE=3D5 COLOR=3D#000000>email the WEBmaster: <A href=3D"mailto:ha=
rti@ddd.snafu.de"><B><I>harti@ddd.snafu.de</I></B></A><I><B>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</B></I></FONT></B></I>

<HR width=3D"100%">





<CENTER><I><B><FONT SIZE=3D5 COLOR=3D#000000>copyright 1996 by <A href=3D=
"http://www.powerweb.de/harti"><B><I>Hartmann Multimedia Service</I></B><=
/A><I><B>,

last updated 19th April 1996</B></I></FONT></B></I> </CENTER>



<CENTER><I><B><FONT SIZE=3D6 COLOR=3D#FF0000>!!!!!!!! This page is

still under construction !!!!!</FONT></B></I> </CENTER>



<CENTER><I><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 COLOR=3D#000000>Keywords: free energy

, overunity , testatika , Methernitha , permanent magnet , Energie

, power , Leistung , Umweltschutz , environment , pollution ,

<BR>

machine , pm square , pm_square , Newman , energymachine , CETI

, cold fusion , Takahashi , Sciex , scooter , bulbs , samarium

, neodym , <BR>

alnico , coil , commutator , battery , neon bulb , Johnson , Palma

, N-machine , Hydrogen , generator ,AC , DC , battery doubler

, antigravity , <BR>

levitation , zero point energy , space energy, field , TOMI ,

TMI , MRA , UFO , magnetic wankle <BR>

<BR>

</FONT></B></I></CENTER>

</BODY>



</HTML>


--------------4F337FD562CA--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 23:57:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA13923; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 23:27:46 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 23:27:46 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33212226.603D@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 17:54:06 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: hschulze@collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
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Subject: DNMEC Generator Version 4
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Greg East wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> The above is PLENTY to get excited about!  Please indulge me here.  I
> did not follow your last 'keyboard' drawing.  I pride myself on being a
> good designer...I used to design gas turbine engines and systems...so I
> should be able to decifer any drawing.  Where is the rotational axis in
> this drawing?  If you have a better rendering of it, I would appreciate
> seeing it.

Have attached a hand drawn Gif.

> The multi-stage concept you propose is extraordinarily logical.  This is
> a better approach than just building a big 'something' that's supposed
> to go overunity.  I can't make such a leap of faith.  Your approach is a
> good way to maintain a high quality developmental program.

I believe the approach taken by all other flux gate builders failed
because
they tried to get max flux change to occur in the coil by allowing the
flux gate to fully enter the air gap and they used a buried MMF source
approach.  As I have shown, this, in my opinion, can't work.

In my design, each stator will only be able to produce a small amount of
power due to the fact that the flux gate never enters the gap and hence
flux changes in the coil are small.

> Again, exactly how is power extracted from the device of your proposal.

Power is available as electrical and rotary torque.  For the device to
self
power, it will need an electrical load large enough to overcome its 
frictional losses.  This may seem strange, but OU devices will work in
reverse.
The more electrical load on the output coils, the more the flux gate is
attracted into the gap and the less the rotating flux gates will need
rotary
torque from the driving motor.  With a good design, the attractive
forces can be made large enough to overcome the frictional losses.  If
the
frictional losses can be made small, then most of the power can be taken
as electrical energy, or by shorting the output coil as torque or both.
Much design work would need to be done on the necessary control systems.

> Also, how will the effect be 'fed' from one stage to the next so that it
> accumulates to provide a useful output level?  Pardon me if I sound like
> I'm prying, but this is very exciting.

Nothing is fed from stage to stage.  Many stators are needed as they can
each
only produce a small OU effect due to the small flux change.  Adding
stators
doesn't increase frictional losses, but does increase the DNMEC effect
on the
rotation drive shart.

> I received a post from Stefan Hartmann last week stating that he was
> building a 'next' generation of OU device based on a modified form of
> one of Badini's Flux Gate Generators.  Is this the same as what you are
> doing?  He said that when he finishes he will post both the test results
> and the plans for all to see and build from.  I haven't heard much more
> from him lately though.

I haven't heard from Stephan either.  He knows of my work in detail.  I
have
posted many helpfull hints to him.

> Hope to hear from you soon.  Best regards,
> 
> Greg East

Hi Greg,

Hope the above helps.  I enjoy your feedback.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

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--------------44C779A55745--


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 00:19:54 1997
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Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 23:55:10 -0800
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 02:54:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970308025431_1680618754@emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Re: Magnetic Gate infos
Resent-Message-ID: <"LW4Bs1.0.DB7.SjH8p"@mx1>
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<< Date :	07/03/1997 17:29:25
 From:	crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM (wesly crosiar)
 Resent-from:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 Reply-to:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 
 Jean: Will it complete a revolution?
 crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
 WESLEY CROSIAR 
  >>

Hi Wesley, Hi all,

I work on this in my Lab's now, and the 3 stages version have an interesting
efficiency: the kinetic energy is conserved (may be even increase (TO BE
VERIFY !!!)) through the 3 gates without cough......

I project to conduct some tests with the magnet probe in free fall condition
:

Firstly : testing the magnet probe's free fall without the MG using an
electronic speedometer, 

Secondly : through the MG at different level of speed entry. 

I think that this is a good method to detect IF (???) it is possible to get
OU with a magnetic scalar potential gate.

I work closely with John Bedini on this subject......stay tuned....  :-)

Overunity your,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 02:00:14 1997
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Message-ID: <33204E57.717D@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 07:20:25 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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Jean-Louis -


> Dear All,
> 
> I have put on my Web server, the latest picture and design of my 3 stages
> Magnetic Gate Accelerator ( V3.0), and some pictures (with Quickfield) which
> show the magnetic flux display when the magnetic probe pass through one
> magnetic gate.

Looks to me like the three stages are sort of merging into an extended
version of a single stage unit, like if you broke those long magnets up
into sections and spread them out a bit along a single section of
plastic pipe. The real question still is what happens between the
ultimate beginning and the ultimate end of the device, as Scott Little
pointed out. In other words, it's the same old refrain: tie the output
to the input and see if you still get OU.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 04:14:27 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 06:59:05 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970308065904_-1640064258@emout02.mail.aol.com>
To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : DNMEC Generator Version 4
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On 08/03/1997 02:52:52, you wrote :

<< 
 
 > I received a post from Stefan Hartmann last week stating that he was
 > building a 'next' generation of OU device based on a modified form of
 > one of Badini's Flux Gate Generators.  Is this the same as what you are
 > doing?  He said that when he finishes he will post both the test results
 > and the plans for all to see and build from.  I haven't heard much more
 > from him lately though.
 
   >>

For your information, I have found a patent like Brown Ecklin and other Flux
Gate Generator :

see below :

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
5191258 : Electric current generator including torque reducing
countermagnetic field 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
INVENTORS:German; James W., Shepherd, TX 77371
ASSIGNEES:noneISSUED:Mar. 2 , 1993FILED:Sep. 11, 1991SERIAL NUMBER:757548FEE
STATUS:INTL. CLASS (Ed. 5):H02K 1/12; U.S. CLASS:310-254; 310-046; 310-168;
322-049; FIELD OF SEARCH:310-254,113,102 R,46,90,156,192,264,67
A,138,166,153,168 ; 322-46,49,50,51,52,47 ; AGENTS:Jackson & Walker; 

ABSTRACT:   An alternating electric current generator comprises an armature
rotatably carried by a drive shaft and positioned between stabilized,
non-moving magnetic elements. The armature has first and second magnetic
field transmitting sections with a magnetized section sandwiched
therebetween. As electric load is applied to the generator, a countermagnetic
field is generated through the armature to increase speed of the drive shaft
and thereby lessen torque required to rotate the drive shaft.


U.S. REFERENCES: 
Patent No.Patentee Issue Date 3983430HowardSep. 1 , 19762218859
*SchweitzerOct. 1 , 19404385246Schur et al.May. 1 , 19834027229FrinkMay. 1 ,
19773431444 *WilsonMar. 1 , 19695030867Yamada et al.Jul. 1 , 19913261998
*Bosco, Jr. et al.Jul. 1 , 19664237391Schur et al.Dec. 1 , 1980No patents
reference this one * some details unavailable 

1 CLAIM: 

*1. An alternating electric current generator, comprising: 
*(1) a housing;

*(2) a motor activated drive shaft rotated by application of torque;

*(3) a counter-magnetic field absorbing armature having first and second
sides and rotatably carried by said drive shaft, said armature comprising;
first and second field transmitting sections at each outboard end on said
armature; a central nonmagnetic metal section intermediate said magnetic
field transmitting sections; and spacing means positioned between each of
said magnetic field transmitting sections and said central nonmagnetic
section;

*(4) a magnet;

*(5) magnetic means on said first side of said armature secured relative to
said housing and having a passageway therethrough for receipt of said drive
shaft, said magnetic means providing a magnetic path between said magnet and
a field coil;

*(6) bearing means between said magnetic means and said shaft to permit
rotation of said shaft without movement of said magnetic means;

*(7) field core means on the second said of said armature and fixedly secured
relative to said armature for inducing an electric current energizing said
armature; said field core means comprising first and second field core
sections; a field coil for generating a counter-magnetic field for absorption
by the armature and sandwiched between said first and second field core
sections; and

*(8) positive and negative electric current conduit means extending from said
field core means for transmitting the generated current, whereby, as load is
increased on the field coil, the rotation of the drive shaft will increase
and the application of torque to said drive shaft may be decreased.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 04:55:00 1997
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Message-ID: <332169DE.2F07@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 23:00:06 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
> 
> For your information, I have found a patent like Brown Ecklin and other Flux
> Gate Generator :
> 
> 5191258 : Electric current generator including torque reducing
> countermagnetic field

Hi Jean-Louis,

Thanks for the info.  Have downloaded the patent from the IBM server. 
Will
study it and report back.  Looks interesting.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 06:27:07 1997
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From: Tixif@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:14:36 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson/ Permanent Magnet Motor
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Wasn't there also a linear version that would work in both directions
depending upon pole placement?  I recall reading that Johnson's patent was
granted by the patent appeals board after demonstating the linear version.

Shawn

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 07:19:04 1997
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Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:44:02 -0500 (EST)
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On 08/03/1997 04:55:25, you wrote :

<< The real question still is what happens between the
 ultimate beginning and the ultimate end of the device, as Scott Little
 pointed out. In other words, it's the same old refrain: tie the output
 to the input and see if you still get OU.
 
 - Rick Monteverde
 Honolulu, HI >>

This is  true, Rick, THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION ( O/U or not O/U ? ).....
After the test of the 1 stage Magnetic Gate, I have conduct some experiments
:

First test :
I would tried to verify if kinetic energy was sufficient to pass through two
gates. 
It's ok, even if the second gate have the same force field and same shape. 
I have notice in version 2 ( 2 gates ), that the magnetic probe have a jecky
motion between the two gate. The kinetic energy progress in relaxation mode.
The kinetic energy accumulated between the gate during the rush out must be
greater than the kinetic energy needed to enter into the gate. This is
verified with this first experiment.

Second test :
I would like to confirm this observation by adding a third gate (after a need
to by new magnets!, 10 magnets by gate is much for my stock !!!). With 3
identicals gates and with 40mm gap between them, I have a jerky motion, but
the probe can pass. I have the feeling that it is not the good way ( is run
like a bad music note ...). The correct tuning of the Magnetic Gate V3 was
found with three differents shaped gates. 10 magnets for the first, 7 magnets
for the second, 6 for the third with 40 mm gap between them. I have put a
picture of this Magnetic gate V3.0 with its design in my web server at : 
http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/images/mg3pict.htm

To conclude this two experiments, I think that the most important point is
that the probe must be in constant acceleration speed through a non linear
magnetic field. This can be done with a long magnet with an air which
increase between magnet probe and Magnetic gate. The potential in the end gap
is higher than the potential at the entrance of magnetic gate. This effect is
fully used in Magnetic Wankel engine for instance, for more details see :
http://www.virtualtimes.com/writers/bearden/mageng/mageng.htm

Some other engines use this main principle (Kawai engine, Adams motor...) but
only on segmented zone. The magnetic Wankel use this effect on more than 300o
of it course and when the electomagnet pulse is sent, it can regauge with an
O/U effect.

My next test planned :
Testing and measuring the kinetic energy during the free fall of the magnet
probe, inside 1, 2 and 3 Magnetic gate. I the probe really accelerate, this
acceleration must be added to the normal gravitational acceleration, and the
result is easy to measure with a speedmeter or an electronic chronometer.
Stay tuned......

I look forward to receive any comments and suggestions which can help me in
this long but fascinating Quest of Overunity.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 10:03:13 1997
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Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 12:30:14 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
Subject: step charging a capacitor
Resent-Message-ID: <"2il4G2.0.w-2.8EQ8p"@mx1>
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I have been reading a few articles by Tom Bearden (Bearden on Free Energy
and The Final Secret of Free Energy) recently.
http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/free/bearden1.htm and bearden2.htm  In the
Final Secret paper he mentions using a capacitor as the collector.  Bearden
refers to the folowing articles for reference:

F. Heinrich, "Entropy change when charging a capacitor:  A demonstration
experiment," Am. J. Phys. 54, 742-744 (1986)

I. Fundaun, C. Reese, and H. H. Soonpaa, "Charging a capacitor," Am. J.
Phys. 60(11), 1047-1048 (1992)

(I have copies of both these articles if anyone would like to look at them I
could scan and email them to you)

These articles state that by step charging a capacitor in very small steps
so that Vf = final voltage and n = number of steps.  By charging the
capacitor to Vf in increments of Vf/n volts.  The energy dissipated when
charging in equal voltage steps is inversely proportional to the number of
steps.  The energy disipated in these tests was measured by the temperature
change in a resistor R through which the capacitor was charged.

Tom Bearden sugests that free energy can be extracted from any battery or
other source of potential through this method.  Has anyone actually tried
this or heard of any test results.

Dave DeLeo
ddeleo@ix.netcom.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 11:34:31 1997
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Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 11:06:19 +0000
From: Albert Yang <lithium@ipgeek.com>
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I have.  Let me just say that it does work, but the only problem is that the time needed 
to stablize the entropy between the Vf stages grow exponentially as you increase the 
charge.

Let me tell you what I did.  I got a lantern battery, and a capacitor.  I connected one 
end of the cap to the positive side of the battery.  Making sure not to make a circuit. 
 Then I wait for a while.  As the one side is over loaded with positive potentials, it 
starts to try to control that entropy load on one side by grabbing free negative ions 
from the air.  Wait a while and if you test the capacitor, you will find that it has 
gained a little charge WITHOUT draining the battery.  But there is only a certain amount 
it will "pull" from the air.  So what you have to do is leave the cap on the battery for 
a while, remove it for a while, and then leave it on again....etc... so on and so forth.


Albert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 12:38:14 1997
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Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 13:24:49 -0700 (MST)
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From: dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca (Dwayne Trynchuk)
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson/ Permanent Magnet Motor
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>Wasn't there also a linear version that would work in both directions
>depending upon pole placement?  I recall reading that Johnson's patent was
>granted by the patent appeals board after demonstating the linear version.
>
>Shawn
>
>
>Hi Shawn,

    If my memory is correct, that was exactly what finally convinced the
patent office that his idea worked.

Dwayne Trynchuk
dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 12:43:30 1997
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From: dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca (Dwayne Trynchuk)
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson/ Permanent Magnet Motor
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>>   Does anyone remember back in the 70's about the permanent mag motor that
>>Howard Johnson had invented. If I remember correctly, he was issued a patent
>>in the spring of 1979. What ever became of it? Where is it now? Could some
>>of his ideas be used with the Bedini Magnetic Gate?
>>   Dwayne Trynchuk
>
> I remember it.  Howard Johnson lived at the time fairly close to where I
>was so I went over to take a look at it.  It was a big zero.  There was no
>motor that ran by itself.  He did have a rotor that would move under the
>influence of a hand-held magnet.  This device was just an example of the
>power delivered by one's hand being magnetically transferred to the rotor.
>The present work which requires the presence of a hand is equally
>worthless.  The hand must be eliminated and replaced with a mechanical
>support which has no possibility of delivering power.
>
>Lawrence E. Wharton
>NASA/GSFC code 913
>Greenbelt MD 20771
>(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov
>
>
>
>
That very interesting, can you further explain this magnetic transference?
What about the Finsrud perpetual motion device?

     Dwayne

     dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 13:10:59 1997
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From: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
Subject: Re: step charging a capacitor
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>I have.  Let me just say that it does work, but the only problem is that
the time needed 
>to stablize the entropy between the Vf stages grow exponentially as you
increase the 
>charge.
>
>Let me tell you what I did.  I got a lantern battery, and a capacitor.  I
connected one 
>end of the cap to the positive side of the battery.  Making sure not to
make a circuit. 
> Then I wait for a while.  As the one side is over loaded with positive
potentials, it 
>starts to try to control that entropy load on one side by grabbing free
negative ions 
>from the air.  Wait a while and if you test the capacitor, you will find
that it has 
>gained a little charge WITHOUT draining the battery.  But there is only a
certain amount 
>it will "pull" from the air.  So what you have to do is leave the cap on
the battery for 
>a while, remove it for a while, and then leave it on again....etc... so on
and so forth.
>
>
>Albert
>

Thanks for the info but I was refering more to stepcharging the cap at
increasing voltages say 1.5, then 3, then 4.5, 6, etc.  supposedly the
smaller the steps the less energy will be dissipated in the resistor between
the voltage source and the cap.  I would assume the smaller temperature
change at the resistor would indicate less current flowing from the battery.
Have you done something similar to this or just tried what you described
with the lantern battery?  I have a suggestion for your lantern battery
experiement.  Rather than leaving the other side of the capacitor
disconnected why not make some sort of free electron harvesting net, maybe
unroll some aluminum foil so you have a larger surface area for the
accumulation of the electrons.  Maybe this will speed up the charging of the
cap.

Dave Deleo
ddeleo@ix.netcom.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 14:49:55 1997
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Message-ID: <3321F3F0.2C88@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 08:49:12 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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To: hschulze@collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Interesting OU? Patents
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Hi All,

Here is a collection of interesting patents, all of which claim to
show OU effects.  They can be downloaded from the IBM patent server :

http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/

4,151,431  Johnson    Permanent magnet motor. (No graphics)
4,215,330  Hartman    Permanent magnet propulsion system (Tomi like).
4,877,983  Johnson    Magnetic force generation method & apparatus.
5,191,258  German     Electric current generator including torque
                       reducing countermagnetic field.
5,402,021  Johnson    Magnetic propulsion system.
5,436,518  Kawai      Motive power generating device

Do you know of any more I can add to the list?

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 15:57:04 1997
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To: neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: External Flux Density with Opposing Magnets
References: <pine.sol.3.91.970308090042.9783c-100000@xbn.shore.net>
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herman@antioch-college.edu wrote:
> 
>     Dear Greg,
> 
>     Are these real measures ..... and if so by what means....?

The Gifs are produced by Quick Field magnetic simulation software.

>     What are thr magnetic materails?

Conmmercial Neo Dyms.  B/H curves from Philips Data handbook.

> Or is this simulation, and by
> whom, and what materials are plugged into the program.

Hi Herman,

I did the sims.  I have verified by actual testing that the
external field increases as shown.  The test is simple.  Take
two magnets and hold them about 5-6mm apart in an attracting mode.
Now take a small ferrite rod and approach the air gap between the
magnets and note the pull experienced by your fingers.  Now reverse
one of the magnets so they are now opposing and again approach the
air gap between the magnets.  You will notice a much larger
attractive force in the opposing mode.  Now try varying the air gap
and notice that the force of attraction continues to build as the
air gap is decreased.  Really neat, simple demo and it works!

I can add you to my Gif distribution list if you wish.  I have
sent you the zip file directly.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson@microtronics.com.au


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 04:53:29 1997
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From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves)
Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: External Flux Density with Opposing Magnets
Date: 09 Mar 1997 11:41:36 GMT
Message-Id: <1078525918.91681356@compcafe.co.uk>
Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK
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Greg Watson writes:
I have verified by actual testing that the
external field increases as shown.  The test is simple.  Take
two magnets and hold them about 5-6mm apart in an attracting mode.
Now take a small ferrite rod and approach the air gap between the
magnets and note the pull experienced by your fingers.  Now reverse
one of the magnets so they are now opposing and again approach the
air gap between the magnets.  You will notice a much larger
attractive force in the opposing mode.  Now try varying the air gap
and notice that the force of attraction continues to build as the
air gap is decreased.  Really neat, simple demo and it works!

Isn't this as expected because with attracting poles the flux flows straight
between the poles but with opposing poles it is forced out of the air-gap
where its effect can be felt? Rather like squeezing a balloon, the harder you
squeeze the further out the balloon reaches. Similarly, the closer the
opposing poles the further out the flux will reach but with no more power,
analagous to the unchanged volume of the balloon.

Best wishes, geoff greaves

----------------------------------------
>From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
----------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 05:55:26 1997
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Hi fellow fiddlers, hobbyists and serious researchers.

I have been silently following this list for about 18 months now,
but not had too much to contribute, other than sifting for
information I find interesting, and adding it to my homepage (which is
embarasingly out of date at the moment).

I am embarking on an 18 month holliday/research trip around
Australia, starting from Perth on about 13/14th of March, via
Adelaide, Melbourne, Hobart, Sydney, Canberra and so on up the east
coast, through Darwin, and back down the west coast.

The Reason for this message is to try to link up with as many free
energy people as possible during my travels, and if those people
agree, document, photograph and video their inventions to create a
record of what is being done in Australia at the current time. 
Obviously privacy and confidentially would be respected if that is 
required.

It is also intended as an oportunity to disseminate information for 
those who have ideas they would like to pass on to the on-line 
community, especially in cases where people have been quietly testing 
or building devices we already know about, but have never got round 
to writing up or passing on their results.

If you are interested in a visit, or know someone who may have 
information to contribute, please email me at steveb@iinet.net.au

All other suggestions on people to see, places to go etc will be 
appreciated.

Thanks
    Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------
Due to lack of phone contact on my travels, it may be up to two
weeks between replies to my e-mail. Please be patient!
---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't care how old I get, as long as I don't have to grow up!
                Steve Boak - steveb@iinet.net.au
---------------------------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 12:14:41 1997
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: Re: Re : Re: Hamel Spinning disk
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To all: I loaned out my hamel ball/ring combo. Has anyone tried the
butterfly spinner effect that John Bedini has on his webpage?
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 13:20:23 1997
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Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 09:56:19 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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Jean-Louis -

   >  I look forward to receive any comments and
   >  suggestions which can help me in this long but
   >  fascinating Quest of Overunity.

I have a suggestion then. Cut a slit out of the plastic tunnel(s) along
the long axis between magnets to allow the edge of a rotating disc to
stick inside there. The gap should be just wide enough to let the disc
move freely, if there's room between two of the encircling magnets. The
bar magnet would ride on the edge of the disk, with either a dummy
counterbalance or another bar magnet to balance the disc. Disc should be
stiff plastic sheet, 3/16" or less, reinforced with fiberglass if need
be, and mounted on a ball bearing like a skateboard wheel bearing.

If that thing accelerates with each pass of a bar through the gate, well
then...  :)

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 14:43:21 1997
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:18:21 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970309171820_-2007840824@emout20.mail.aol.com>
To: lithium@ipgeek.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: step charging a capacitor
Resent-Message-ID: <"v4jDR.0.2f3.ATp8p"@mx2>
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Related to this topic, I have found it very interesting that *any* extended
conductor
in air will accumulate an easily measurable amount of charge in a matter of a
few
seconds. If the conductor happens to be one side of a capacitor doesn't seem
to
matter.  My experiments seemed to indicate that whether or not the capacitor
was
charged did not matter either (using only *one* side of the capacitor as a
test
conducting mass).
   If anyone has an interest in the details I will send or post them.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 19:18:59 1997
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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 20:03:26 -0700 (MST)
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From: dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca (Dwayne Trynchuk)
Subject: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
Resent-Message-ID: <"mes6s.0.Mt4.1at8p"@mx2>
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Good Evening,

   Has anyone checked out the plans for the GMD at the Project Magnet Site?
Has anyone out there experimented with the cone idea using the magnets in a
state of unbalance caused by the control mechanism? What about some
simplified experiments in this area?
 
   I tried the Bedini magnetic gate experiment, and I must say the results
are very interesting. I indeed got the ball/magnet to spin. The angle of the
gate magnet seems to control the speed of the spin. I did not have to
"wobble" the gate to achieve this spin. Has anyone tried this having the
gate magnet mounted on a support structure? Has anyone tried to mount the
ball on ball thrust bearing( or something of that nature) to keep it
stationary to achieve the spin? I've noticed at a certain angle the ball and
magnet will stay stationery and maintain a spin.

Dwayne Trynchuk
dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca
   

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 19:22:49 1997
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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 19:03:58 -0800
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: overunity patents
Resent-Message-ID: <"9_xib3.0.7U.Tft8p"@mx1>
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To all Free Energy People,

   Here is the first installment of a long random list of U.S overunity
patents that I will put up as I dig them out of my files. I've made no
attempt to evaluate these devices, though I comment on a few.

PAT #     NAME
4,113,589 High Intensity Energy Transfer Technique- Leach  (Water cracking)
4,148,701 High Efficiency Energy Transfer System- Leach
4,897,592 Electrostatic Energy Field Power Generating System- Hyde
3,890,548 Pulsed Capacitor Discharge Electric Engine- Gray
3,879,622 Permanent Magnet Motion Conversion Device- Ecklin
4,567,407 Biased Unitized Motor Alternator- Ecklin
3,899,703 Permanent Magnet Motion conversion Means- Kinnison
1,859,643 Permanent Magnet Motor- Worthington
1,835,721 Permanent Magnet Motor- Powell
1,963,213 Permanent Magnet Motor- Poysa
1,859,764 Magnetic Device- Bougon
3,992,132 Energy Conversion System- Putt
4,207,773 Magnetic Piston Machine
4,305,024 Magnetic Motor- Kuroki
3,703,653 Magnetic Motor(?)- Tracy
4,179,633 Magnetic Wheel Drive- Kelly
3,469,130 Means For Shielding And Unshielding Permanent Magnets etc.- Jines
3,835,365 Flywheel Oscillator Power System(?)- Zoleta
5,449,989 Energy Conversion System- Correa
4,394,230 Method and Apparatus For Splitting Water Molecules- Puharich
4,826,581 Controlled Process For The Production Of Thermal Energy etc.- Meyer
3,386,883 Method And Apparatus For Producing Nuclear-Fusion Reactions-
Farnsworth
4,772,816 Energy Conversion System- Spence
          An interesting device that uses a magnetostatic field to increase
the                  potential of orbiting electrons.
1,826,727 Radio Apparatus- Britten
          Not in itself an overunity device, but part of a system that
powered his house for years.
4,077,001 Electromagnetic Convertor With Stationary Variable-Reluctance
Members-                 Richardson
4,006,401 Electromagnetic Generator- DeRivas
4,151,431 Permanent Magnet Motor- Johnson
5,372,688 System For Electrolysis Of Liquid Electrolyte- Patterson
5,146,395 Power Supply Including Two Tank Circuits- McKie
4,975,608 Switched Reluctance Motor With Full AC commutation- Aspden
3,374,376 Electric Generator- Kromrey
3,914,004 Method And Apparatus For Increasing Electrical Power- Alexander
5,018,180 Energy Conversion Using High Charge Density- Shoulders
  685,957 Apparatus For The Utilization Of Radiant Energy- Tesla
5,065,085 Thermoelectric Energy Conversion- Aspden, Strachan
  600,457 Electric Battery- Stubblefield
          Apparently used a 'forgotten' EM effect called the Magnetovoltaic
Effect. I            will be posting an article about this effect soon.
4,428,193 Noble Gas Engine- Papp
4,004,210 Reversible Thermoelectric Converter- Yater
4,835,433 Apparatus For Direct Conversion Of Radioactive Decay Energy To
Electrical              Energy- Brown
4,500,827 Linear Reciprocating Electrical Generator- Merritt, Pasichinskyj
4,904,926 Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator- Pasichinskyj
3,249,944 Electromagnetic Transduction Utilizing Radiant Energy- Stockman
2,115,578 Radiant Energy Receiver- Hall
4,024,421 Magnetically Operable Engine- Teal
2,279,690 Motor/Generator Unit- Lindsey
3,403,323 Parametric Transformer
          No overunity claims have been made for this device, but I feel
that                    parametric devices have potential in this regard.

I didn't include some devices under current discussion (i.e. the Kawai
Motor). Question marks indicate I am not certain of the exact patent title.
If you know of any patents I missed, please post them and I will add them to
the list.
         Fred








From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 20:02:37 1997
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
Subject: Re: step charging a capacitor
Resent-Message-ID: <"fxNMl1.0.B91.k3u8p"@mx1>
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>Related to this topic, I have found it very interesting that *any* extended
>conductor
>in air will accumulate an easily measurable amount of charge in a matter of a
>few
>seconds. If the conductor happens to be one side of a capacitor doesn't seem
>to
>matter.  My experiments seemed to indicate that whether or not the capacitor
>was
>charged did not matter either (using only *one* side of the capacitor as a
>test
>conducting mass).
>   If anyone has an interest in the details I will send or post them.
>


Could you please post the details.  I would be interested in looking at them.

Thanks,
Dave DeLeo
ddeleo@ix.netcom.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 20:19:44 1997
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From: "Ben Tammetta" <tammetta@jumanji.clubelite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Old-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:17:05 +0000
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Subject: Why the Hamel Spinning Top Spins
Priority: normal
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Hello,

Here's a copy of the web page i just put up.

It has movies I made of the spinning Hamel Top.

Let me know what you think.

http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin/

Thanks
ben@clubelite.com

#####################################

My Opinion: 
           Why the Hamel Spinning Top Spins
             By: Ben Tammetta March 9, 1997



     This page assumes some familiarity with the Hamel experiments. To
     get more background information and diagrams start here. Hamel
     web pages 

     I built and experimented with this top/disk in one evening from
     parts from around the house. I filmed my experiments with my
     black and white Digital Quick Cam camera. It allows you to
     capture movies and save them as AVI files. So everyone can see
     now! 

     My guess now is that the size of the componets that make up the
     Hamel Spiner is not as important as others claim it to be. Skill
     is more important! I spent 10 minutes with it before it spun. And
     once I got the technique down , it was simple to get going again.
     You must hold the PVC pipe of magnets at a slight angle and off
     center to the top, AND pull it away slowly as the top gets
     attracted. I could not get the top to spin using a 2 1/4 inch
     magnet (same as top magnet) instead of the PVC pipe arrangment,
     so the stator arangement of 12 one inch magnets seems important. 

     Well, the good news is it works! 

     The not so good news is that the spinning can be explained with
     elementary physics. Instead of explaining the physics behind it,
     it is much simpler to give an analogy..... 

     The best analogy is:
     The disk behaves just as any ball or sphere would if a string was
     attached to one end and pulled at a slight angle from vertical
     while the ball continues to maintain contact with a horizontal
     surface. It Spins! 

     In my opinion, the top would not spin if it was in a fixed
     position. It only spins because it is able to roll across a flat
     surface. The PVC pipe also has to be moving. 

     Here are some still pictures ... Kind fuzzy but you'll get the
     idea. The top, has liquid paper stripes so you can better see it
     in the AVI movies :). 



     Also I found that the track ball inside a regular mouse fits into
     a magnatron magnet great. And the surprising thing is that it was
     attracted to the magnet. I guess it's got some metal in it.
     Anyways that made it easier. The magnet is little over 2
     inches... 2 1/4 

     Another top picture taken with a ruler to give you an idea of the
     size 



     The PVC pipe with 12 1 inch Radio Shack magnets taped to the
     outside. All North pole facing in. to attract the South pole of
     the top of the top. 



     Here are the AVI Movies. 
     If you have Netscape 3.0 then just click on the image to play it
     once it finishes downloading., else get an avi plugin or player. 

          Movie 1 (314k) 
          Movie 2 (560k) 
          Movie 3 (1.9Megs) Better frame rate 
          Movie 4 (2.1Megs) Better frame rate 

     And finally me with my desk in the background :) I have a
     Electrical Engineering degree from University of New Orleans and
     work for a huge company in Atlanta, GA now ,running unix machines
     and developing Web based applications. I have been on following
     the Freenrg mailing list for almost 2 years now waiting for "THE"
     easy to build Free Energy Device. :) 



     I wish this thing demonstrated some anomolous behavior but in my
     opinion..... There's nothing specail at all happening here :) ..
     ... one day tho..... :) 

     Here are some related links about other Hamel experiments 

     Am I wrong, Any comments are welcome.

     Send comments or questions to ben@clubelite.com 



######################
# Ben Tammetta       #
# ben@clubelite.com  # 
######################

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 20:21:02 1997
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Message-ID: <33239653.6DD@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:34:19 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
References: <199703100303.UAA01634@bernie.compusmart.ab.ca>
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Dwayne Trynchuk wrote:
> 
> Good Evening,
> 
>    Has anyone checked out the plans for the GMD at the Project Magnet Site?

What's the site address?

> Has anyone out there experimented with the cone idea using the magnets in a
> state of unbalance caused by the control mechanism? What about some
> simplified experiments in this area?
> 
>    I tried the Bedini magnetic gate experiment, and I must say the results
> are very interesting. I indeed got the ball/magnet to spin. The angle of the
> gate magnet seems to control the speed of the spin. I did not have to
> "wobble" the gate to achieve this spin. Has anyone tried this having the
> gate magnet mounted on a support structure? Has anyone tried to mount the
> ball on ball thrust bearing( or something of that nature) to keep it
> stationary to achieve the spin? I've noticed at a certain angle the ball and
> magnet will stay stationery and maintain a spin.
> 
> Dwayne Trynchuk
> dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca
> 
Hi Dwayne,

What is the physical data for your spinner?  I have built 2 and have not
been able to get the unit to continue spinning without moving the upper
magnet.  How stable was your hand?  Did the disk slow down at all?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 20:21:03 1997
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Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 22:05:49 -0800
From: Jerry <jdecker@keelynet.com>
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Hi Dwayne!

Since you tried the spinner, check out John Bedini's newest duplication 
of Hamel's 'Butterfly Effect'....it is posted on his website, try 

           http://www.keelynet.com/hamindex.htm

and click on Bedini's website (don't know the address offhand, something 
like nidlink.com)....

I plan to build that version also since Hamel says 'weight into speed' 
was the key phrase he was to reference....creating a natural imbalance 
that is biased in a preferred direction....I am of the opinion that it 
won't generate TORQUE but will achieve an extremely high rotational 
SPEED.  

Note that both Searl and Hamel's discs produced electrical disruptions by 
somehow absorbing all electrical energy in the area (power outages).

I see this as tying into the Aether Spectrum where you slow down aether 
(very high freqs) to create magnetism, slow that down to create 
electricity, slow that down to create light, then heat, then sound, then 
physical vibration and finally matter.  E=MC^ and it is a reciprocal 
phenomenon.  

This is much like one of my fears about tapping ambient aether/ZPE, the 
energy must come from the local environment and too much, too fast, will 
cause all kinds of weirdness, including physical illness and 
temporal/dimensional distortions for starters.

Such weirdness is due to the draining effect which allows only as much 
energy to be produced as is proportionate to the natural absorption from
the surrounding aether/zpe.

Kind of like an aether well, the influx is determined by the amount of 
power being translated/converted through the device.

So, flying devices and energy production from such a machine must be 
actually creating an implosive/centripetally moving region centered at 
the eye of the hurricane.

A recent post from the Russian group IKAR to the 
alt.sci.physics.new-theories newsgroup was so intriguing that I posted it 
at KeelyNet as russlev1.htm, it includes several interesting files that 
correlate with the interference/resonant trap concept, check out;

             http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/russlev1.htm

A little bit here, a little bit there, we'll get it.
-- 
               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 21:09:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA29169; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 20:54:52 -0800 (PST)
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Message-Id: <199703100454.XAA157646@mule0.mindspring.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tammetta@jumanji.clubelite.com>
From: "Ben Tammetta" <tammetta@mindspring.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:52:23 +0000
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Subject:  Why the Hamel Spinning Top Spins
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Hello,

Here's a copy of the web page i just put up.

It has movies I made of the spinning Hamel Top.

Let me know what you think.

http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin/

Thanks
ben@clubelite.com

#####################################

My Opinion: 
           Why the Hamel Spinning Top Spins
             By: Ben Tammetta March 9, 1997



     This page assumes some familiarity with the Hamel experiments. To
     get more background information and diagrams start here. Hamel
     web pages 

     I built and experimented with this top/disk in one evening from
     parts from around the house. I filmed my experiments with my
     black and white Digital Quick Cam camera. It allows you to
     capture movies and save them as AVI files. So everyone can see
     now! 

     My guess now is that the size of the componets that make up the
     Hamel Spiner is not as important as others claim it to be. Skill
     is more important! I spent 10 minutes with it before it spun. And
     once I got the technique down , it was simple to get going again.
     You must hold the PVC pipe of magnets at a slight angle and off
     center to the top, AND pull it away slowly as the top gets
     attracted. I could not get the top to spin using a 2 1/4 inch
     magnet (same as top magnet) instead of the PVC pipe arrangment,
     so the stator arangement of 12 one inch magnets seems important. 

     Well, the good news is it works! 

     The not so good news is that the spinning can be explained with
     elementary physics. Instead of explaining the physics behind it,
     it is much simpler to give an analogy..... 

     The best analogy is:
     The disk behaves just as any ball or sphere would if a string was
     attached to one end and pulled at a slight angle from vertical
     while the ball continues to maintain contact with a horizontal
     surface. It Spins! 

     In my opinion, the top would not spin if it was in a fixed
     position. It only spins because it is able to roll across a flat
     surface. The PVC pipe also has to be moving. 

     Here are some still pictures ... Kind fuzzy but you'll get the
     idea. The top, has liquid paper stripes so you can better see it
     in the AVI movies :). 



     Also I found that the track ball inside a regular mouse fits into
     a magnatron magnet great. And the surprising thing is that it was
     attracted to the magnet. I guess it's got some metal in it.
     Anyways that made it easier. The magnet is little over 2
     inches... 2 1/4 

     Another top picture taken with a ruler to give you an idea of the
     size 



     The PVC pipe with 12 1 inch Radio Shack magnets taped to the
     outside. All North pole facing in. to attract the South pole of
     the top of the top. 



     Here are the AVI Movies. 
     If you have Netscape 3.0 then just click on the image to play it
     once it finishes downloading., else get an avi plugin or player. 

          Movie 1 (314k) 
          Movie 2 (560k) 
          Movie 3 (1.9Megs) Better frame rate 
          Movie 4 (2.1Megs) Better frame rate 

     And finally me with my desk in the background :) I have a
     Electrical Engineering degree from University of New Orleans and
     work for a huge company in Atlanta, GA now ,running unix machines
     and developing Web based applications. I have been on following
     the Freenrg mailing list for almost 2 years now waiting for "THE"
     easy to build Free Energy Device. :) 



     I wish this thing demonstrated some anomolous behavior but in my
     opinion..... There's nothing specail at all happening here :) ..
     ... one day tho..... :) 

     Here are some related links about other Hamel experiments 

     Am I wrong, Any comments are welcome.

     Send comments or questions to ben@clubelite.com 



######################
# Ben Tammetta       #
# ben@clubelite.com  # 
######################

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 21:32:50 1997
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:31:14 +1100
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re:Is there an alien presence in the cosmos 
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--=====================_858020894==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have been getting some strange throughts lately about Aliens
if your are interested read the attached file


>Geoff
>
>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/
>
>
>

--=====================_858020894==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//IETF//DTD HTML//EN">
<HTML>

<HEAD>

<META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="Internet Assistant for Word 1.0Z">
<META NAME="AUTHOR" CONTENT="Geoffrey Egel">
</HEAD>

<BODY>

<H1>A Modern Fairy Tale</H1>

<P>
The time and the Place:  A stone age tribal island in the Pacific
  &quot;NOW&quot;
<P>
On several occasions there have been reports of several  unusual
objects sighted at sea and  in the air at the distance.
<P>
Because there have been so many  lately some  maybe natural occurrences
some not so easily explained away and some
<P>
perhaps under intelligence control.
<P>
The tribal chiefs had  decided to try to make contact with these
objects or those in control of them and using their latest up
to date communications equipment  ( namely smoke signals) they
begin a poorly funded program trying  to  communicate with those
alien to  them.
<P>
After many months of trying the project is finally abandoned and
 reported as failure. 
<P>
The report stated that using their most modern  commucation equipment
the experiment has proved to be a failure
<P>
with no smoke signals being recorded in return to those sent.
<P>
Therefore the chiefs  conclude their is no intelligence life apart
from what's on their  island.
<P>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<P>
The other side
<P>
>From the sky above Aircraft  and the ships at sea  radio and television
and telephony channels have been busy reporting seeing an unusual
<P>
amount of smoke coming from an island in the pacific ocean and
concluded there is the possibility of intelligent life
<P>
on that island not  but  have not as of yet  been able to get
a answer on the  radios 
<P>
It is recommended that our craft  at  various times keep a look
out whilst passsing bye and on flight paths near that island.

<P>
As of this time our planes cannot land because of the forested
terrain and  sea landing has proved impossible because of rocky
terrain.
<P>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<P>
Could there be the possibility even with our most up to date Satellite
and radio telescopes equipment that in our arrogance we think
can't be surpassed  HAS  ACTUALLY BEEN BY OTHERS IN THE COSMOS
and as such we looking for something that no longer exists.
<P>
Could this be a reason no intelligent life has yet been found
out there or so we are told
<P>
Geoff Egel
<P>
Http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/
</BODY>

</HTML>

--=====================_858020894==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


--=====================_858020894==_--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 22:07:23 1997
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Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 20:42:29 -0800
Message-Id: <199703100439.XAA224294@mule0.mindspring.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tammetta@jumanji.clubelite.com>
From: "Ben Tammetta" <tammetta@jumanji.clubelite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:36:35 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Subject: Why the Hamel Spinning Top Spins
Reply-to: tammetta@mindspring.com
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Hello,

Here's a copy of the web page i just put up.

It has movies I made of the spinning Hamel Top.

Let me know what you think.

http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin/

Thanks
ben@clubelite.com

#####################################

My Opinion: 
           Why the Hamel Spinning Top Spins
             By: Ben Tammetta March 9, 1997



     This page assumes some familiarity with the Hamel experiments. To
     get more background information and diagrams start here. Hamel
     web pages 

     I built and experimented with this top/disk in one evening from
     parts from around the house. I filmed my experiments with my
     black and white Digital Quick Cam camera. It allows you to
     capture movies and save them as AVI files. So everyone can see
     now! 

     My guess now is that the size of the componets that make up the
     Hamel Spiner is not as important as others claim it to be. Skill
     is more important! I spent 10 minutes with it before it spun. And
     once I got the technique down , it was simple to get going again.
     You must hold the PVC pipe of magnets at a slight angle and off
     center to the top, AND pull it away slowly as the top gets
     attracted. I could not get the top to spin using a 2 1/4 inch
     magnet (same as top magnet) instead of the PVC pipe arrangment,
     so the stator arangement of 12 one inch magnets seems important. 

     Well, the good news is it works! 

     The not so good news is that the spinning can be explained with
     elementary physics. Instead of explaining the physics behind it,
     it is much simpler to give an analogy..... 

     The best analogy is:
     The disk behaves just as any ball or sphere would if a string was
     attached to one end and pulled at a slight angle from vertical
     while the ball continues to maintain contact with a horizontal
     surface. It Spins! 

     In my opinion, the top would not spin if it was in a fixed
     position. It only spins because it is able to roll across a flat
     surface. The PVC pipe also has to be moving. 

     Here are some still pictures ... Kind fuzzy but you'll get the
     idea. The top, has liquid paper stripes so you can better see it
     in the AVI movies :). 



     Also I found that the track ball inside a regular mouse fits into
     a magnatron magnet great. And the surprising thing is that it was
     attracted to the magnet. I guess it's got some metal in it.
     Anyways that made it easier. The magnet is little over 2
     inches... 2 1/4 

     Another top picture taken with a ruler to give you an idea of the
     size 



     The PVC pipe with 12 1 inch Radio Shack magnets taped to the
     outside. All North pole facing in. to attract the South pole of
     the top of the top. 



     Here are the AVI Movies. 
     If you have Netscape 3.0 then just click on the image to play it
     once it finishes downloading., else get an avi plugin or player. 

          Movie 1 (314k) 
          Movie 2 (560k) 
          Movie 3 (1.9Megs) Better frame rate 
          Movie 4 (2.1Megs) Better frame rate 

     And finally me with my desk in the background :) I have a
     Electrical Engineering degree from University of New Orleans and
     work for a huge company in Atlanta, GA now ,running unix machines
     and developing Web based applications. I have been on following
     the Freenrg mailing list for almost 2 years now waiting for "THE"
     easy to build Free Energy Device. :) 



     I wish this thing demonstrated some anomolous behavior but in my
     opinion..... There's nothing specail at all happening here :) ..
     ... one day tho..... :) 

     Here are some related links about other Hamel experiments 

     Am I wrong, Any comments are welcome.

     Send comments or questions to ben@clubelite.com 




######################
# Ben Tammetta       #
# ben@clubelite.com  # 
######################

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 22:50:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA18560; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 22:20:42 -0800
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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 21:35:12 -0800 (PST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
Resent-Message-ID: <"QvfXy.0.QV4.lVw8p"@mx1>
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Jerry: Do you ever get off the phone???????????????????????
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 22:50:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA17896; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 22:18:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 22:18:35 -0800
From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 00:42:45 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970310004036_-1707077092@emout10.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, lithium@ipgeek.com
Subject: Re: step charging a cap (related)
Resent-Message-ID: <"NoO_P1.0.4M4.LUw8p"@mx1>
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I had several requests that I post experiment results I mentioned related to
step charging capacitors.  What I found was: if you take ordinary metal
objects in air, if they are larger than about 1/4'' dia. they rapidly build
up a measurable amount of charge.  I used the following (and many other)
objects.
- a few inches of common *uninsulated* wire
- drill bits
- ONE side of an uncharged capacitor
- One side of a charged capacitor
- a ball bearing

The experiment consisted of connecting one of the objects to another with
common hookup wire passed through a current transformer and observing the
output of the current transformer on an oscilloscope. Some of the interesting
results were:
- with a 1v/a current probe, pulses as large as many mv were sometimes seen.
- there was no consistent difference when connecting a charged or an
uncharged capacitor (I used up to 50 v) to some other object
- the current pulse amplitude was correlated fairly well with sizes of the
objects.
- the pulse lengths were very short of course (few ns) but ringing occured
due to the capacitance and inductance of the object-hookup wire- other
object.
- the *polarity* of the pulses was random.  

The current levels represented many, many charged particles accumulating on
the relatively small objects in a few seconds- very surprising to me.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 23:00:11 1997
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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:29:54 +1100
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re:Is there an alien presence in the cosmos 
X-Attachments: C:\JUNK\FAIRY.TXT;
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--=====================_857941650==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have been getting some strange throughts lately about Aliens
if your are interested read the attached file


>Geoff
>
>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/
>
>
>

--=====================_857941650==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//IETF//DTD HTML//EN">
<HTML>

<HEAD>

<META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="Internet Assistant for Word 1.0Z">
<META NAME="AUTHOR" CONTENT="Geoffrey Egel">
</HEAD>

<BODY>

<H1>A Modern Fairy Tale</H1>

<P>
The time and the Place:  A stone age tribal island in the Pacific
  &quot;NOW&quot;
<P>
On several occasions there have been reports of several  unusual
objects sighted at sea and  in the air at the distance.
<P>
Because there have been so many  lately some  maybe natural occurrences
some not so easily explained away and some
<P>
perhaps under intelligence control.
<P>
The tribal chiefs had  decided to try to make contact with these
objects or those in control of them and using their latest up
to date communications equipment  ( namely smoke signals) they
begin a poorly funded program trying  to  communicate with those
alien to  them.
<P>
After many months of trying the project is finally abandoned and
 reported as failure. 
<P>
The report stated that using their most modern  commucation equipment
the experiment has proved to be a failure
<P>
with no smoke signals being recorded in return to those sent.
<P>
Therefore the chiefs  conclude their is no intelligence life apart
from what's on their  island.
<P>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<P>
The other side
<P>
>From the sky above Aircraft  and the ships at sea  radio and television
and telephony channels have been busy reporting seeing an unusual
<P>
amount of smoke coming from an island in the pacific ocean and
concluded there is the possibility of intelligent life
<P>
on that island not  but  have not as of yet  been able to get
a answer on the  radios 
<P>
It is recommended that our craft  at  various times keep a look
out whilst passsing bye and on flight paths near that island.

<P>
As of this time our planes cannot land because of the forested
terrain and  sea landing has proved impossible because of rocky
terrain.
<P>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<P>
Could there be the possibility even with our most up to date Satellite
and radio telescopes equipment that in our arrogance we think
can't be surpassed  HAS  ACTUALLY BEEN BY OTHERS IN THE COSMOS
and as such we looking for something that no longer exists.
<P>
Could this be a reason no intelligent life has yet been found
out there or so we are told
<P>
Geoff Egel
<P>
Http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/
</BODY>

</HTML>

--=====================_857941650==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


--=====================_857941650==_--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 23:01:13 1997
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Message-ID: <332395B4.7E5@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 00:01:40 -0500
From: Ben Tammetta <tammetta@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: tammetta@mindspring.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I)
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Subject: Why the Hamel Spinning Top Spins
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Hello,

Here's a copy of the web page i just put up.

It has movies I made of the spinning Hamel Top.

Let me know what you think.

http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin/

Thanks
Ben
ben@clubelite.com

#####################################

My Opinion: 
           Why the Hamel Spinning Top Spins
             By: Ben Tammetta March 9, 1997



     This page assumes some familiarity with the Hamel experiments. To
     get more background information and diagrams start here. Hamel
     web pages 

     I built and experimented with this top/disk in one evening from
     parts from around the house. I filmed my experiments with my
     black and white Digital Quick Cam camera. It allows you to
     capture movies and save them as AVI files. So everyone can see
     now! 

     My guess now is that the size of the componets that make up the
     Hamel Spiner is not as important as others claim it to be. Skill
     is more important! I spent 10 minutes with it before it spun. And
     once I got the technique down , it was simple to get going again.
     You must hold the PVC pipe of magnets at a slight angle and off
     center to the top, AND pull it away slowly as the top gets
     attracted. I could not get the top to spin using a 2 1/4 inch
     magnet (same as top magnet) instead of the PVC pipe arrangment,
     so the stator arangement of 12 one inch magnets seems important. 

     Well, the good news is it works! 

     The not so good news is that the spinning can be explained with
     elementary physics. Instead of explaining the physics behind it,
     it is much simpler to give an analogy..... 

     The best analogy is:
     The disk behaves just as any ball or sphere would if a string was
     attached to one end and pulled at a slight angle from vertical
     while the ball continues to maintain contact with a horizontal
     surface. It Spins! 

     In my opinion, the top would not spin if it was in a fixed
     position. It only spins because it is able to roll across a flat
     surface. The PVC pipe also has to be moving. 

     Here are some still pictures ... Kind fuzzy but you'll get the
     idea. The top, has liquid paper stripes so you can better see it
     in the AVI movies :). 



     Also I found that the track ball inside a regular mouse fits into
     a magnatron magnet great. And the surprising thing is that it was
     attracted to the magnet. I guess it's got some metal in it.
     Anyways that made it easier. The magnet is little over 2
     inches... 2 1/4 

     Another top picture taken with a ruler to give you an idea of the
     size 



     The PVC pipe with 12 1 inch Radio Shack magnets taped to the
     outside. All North pole facing in. to attract the South pole of
     the top of the top. 



     Here are the AVI Movies. 
     If you have Netscape 3.0 then just click on the image to play it
     once it finishes downloading., else get an avi plugin or player. 

          Movie 1 (314k) 
          Movie 2 (560k) 
          Movie 3 (1.9Megs) Better frame rate 
          Movie 4 (2.1Megs) Better frame rate 

     And finally me with my desk in the background :) I have a
     Electrical Engineering degree from University of New Orleans and
     work for a huge company in Atlanta, GA now ,running unix machines
     and developing Web based applications. I have been on following
     the Freenrg mailing list for almost 2 years now waiting for "THE"
     easy to build Free Energy Device. :) 



     I wish this thing demonstrated some anomolous behavior but in my
     opinion..... There's nothing specail at all happening here :) ..
     ... one day tho..... :) 

     Here are some related links about other Hamel experiments 

     Am I wrong, Any comments are welcome.

     Send comments or questions to ben@clubelite.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 23:04:17 1997
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Hello everyone,

I have followed the discussions on this board with keen interest.  I was just
wondering if someone could explain to me what exaclty the 'aether' referred
to is.  Since I am new to this board, I was also hoping someone could point
me toward some theoretical or experimental data pointing toward the existence
of the aether.

Doug Tolton

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 00:14:58 1997
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While browsing through an old text on magnetism (1) I came across a magnetic
phenomenon that I had never heard of.  Here is the paragraph that describes
this effect:

"ELECTROMOTIVE FORCE DUE TO MAGNETISM. In order to set up an ordinary
voltaic cell it is necessary to have two different elements dipped into an
electrolyte. Must the two elements be different CHEMICALLY? This suggests
the possibility of the generation of an electromotive force, if the two
poles of the cell are different PHYSICALLY. This has been confirmed in many
different ways. Two pieces of the same metal, one strained and the other
unstrained, give a small difference in potential due to inequality in
physical properties. It would be an easy inference to assume that if a cell
were to be made from magnetized and unmagnetized specimens of the same
material there would be a difference of potential between them when dipped
in an electrolyte. This is exactly what Gross discovered in 1886 (2). Many
others (3) have investigated this effect and confirmed Gross' results. The
direction of the current produced by such a cell depends on the metal. The
effect is not limited to the ferromagnetic substances but is found as well
in bodies like bismuth. In general, it may be said that the unmagnetized
electrode of nickel and iron is always negative. In the case of bismuth the
unmagnetized pole is the positve one. Some results of Paillot (4) for
magnetized and unmagnetized elements of iron indicate a maximum effect of
1/22 of a volt for a field strength of 30,000 gausses...It is a problem that
needs much study, for there is as yet no real explanation of the effect." 

Here is a summary of what I learned about this effect from reading the
primary references:
1) Any two pieces of metal will create some potential when placed in an
electrolyte, even if they are chosen to be identical. This potential will
amount to a few mV. 
2) If two identical electrodes of iron are placed in an electrolyte,
particularly nitric acid, and one of them is exposed to a strong magnetic
field the potential can increase to around .02 V.
3) The potential is proportional to the strength of the magnetic field.
4) The effect apparently arises because the magnetic field speeds up the
chemical reaction time. Experiments were done (5) with pieces of iron in
nitric acid that were 'passive' (not reacting violently to the presence of
the acid). When the field of a nearby electromagnet was increased beyond a
certain threshold the metal began to react violently to the acid. Why these
changes in reaction rate occurred is not explained, though possibly an
explanation could be found in the current literature on magnetochemistry.
5) On the other hand, when a standard wet cell with one iron electrode is
magnetized, the EMF of the cell will decrease by as much as 5 percent (6).
The discrepancy between these results is unexplained.

These experiments remind me of Ehrenhaft's experiments in Germany on
magnetolysis, the electrolysis of water by a magnetic field (7,8). In the
context of experiments to discover a real magnetic current and magnetic
monopoles, he placed pure water between the poles of an electromagnet made
of soft iron and generated bubbles of hydrogen and oxygen. It should be
noted that the poles of the magnet were exposed to the liquid and, when the
experiment was done with permanent magnets, the field strength of the magnet
decreased over time, as if some energy was being extracted from the magnet.

Many questions arise about these experiments:
1) What sort of voltages could be generated with today's high-strength magnets?
2) Is a chemical action necessary to create the voltage? What would happen
if an electrolyte that doesn't dissolve the electrodes was used? 
3) Is it possible there are some liquid media that would convert the
magnetic field directly into electricity? If bubbles of hydrogen and oxygen
can be produced purely by a magnetic field, then a "magnetic fuel cell"
would seem to be possible where an electric current is generated by the
recombination of the gases.
4) What would happen with pulsed DC and AC magnetic fields?
5) Can magnetic fields be used to enhance normal battery operation? Although
the effects on EMF noted in the literature were negative, this might have to
do with the specific chemical reactions involved, and might be different
with other battery types.

This phenomenon may be of little practical usefulness or it may lead to a
whole new way of converting magnetism into electricity. It's too early to tell.

REFERENCES
1) "Magnetic Phenomena, An Elementary Treatise" by Samuel Williams (1931)
2) Gross, Weiner Berichte, 92, 1378 (1886)
3) "On The Explanation Of The Action Of A Magnet On Chemical Action" by
Henry Rowland and Louis Bell, Philos. Mag., 26, 105 (1888), also
Bucherer, Wiedemann Ann., 61, 807 (1897)
4) Paillot, Compt. Rend., 131, 1194 (1900); 132, 1318 (1901)
5) "On The Destruction Of The Passivity Of Iron In Nitric Acid By
Magnetization" by    Edward L. Nichols and W.S Franklin, Am. Jour. Sci., 34,
204 (Dec 1887)
6) "Inaugural Dissertation" by Wyss (1900)
7) "Decomposition Of Matter Through The Magnet (Magnetolysis)" by Felix
Ehrenhaft,    Phys. Rev., 63, 216 (1943)
8) "Magnetolysis And The Electric Field Around The Magnetic Current" by
Felix Ehrenhaft, Phys. Rev., 63, 461 (1943)  





      

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 00:32:46 1997
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:21:29 -0600
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From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: The Magnetic Current and Single Magnetic Charges
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In the past week, several individuals have privately written me regarding
the work of Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft.  I am therefore posting the following for
the benefit of those who may not have read this information:

Subject: The Magnetic Current and Single Magnetic Charges

__________________________________________________________
       Some years ago,  I heard a lecture  presentation by
astrophysicist  Andrew  J.  Galambos  on  the  subject  of
Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft's experiments  with Photophoresis.  As
a young college student in physics, Dr. Galambos worked as
a laboratory  assistant to Dr. Ehrenhaft  during the 1940s
in New York City.  In his lecture, Dr. Galambos  projected
microphotographs  of a  Photophoresis  phenomena for which
there was no general  explanation.   The  microphotographs
were most interesting  in their depiction  of the activity
of sub-microscopic particles  suspended in liquids  and/or
gases.

What was most  unusual  about  the activity of these small
particles was the following:

During  the  course of  the  experiment, the motion of the
particles  traced  out  a  "spiral"  path.   However, upon
magnification  of a given section  of a given spiral,  one
saw a  "spiral" path within the path of the larger spiral.
When a section of this  second order magnitude spiral path
was  magnified  one  saw  an  even smaller  "spiral"  path
comprising this second order magnitude spiral path.....and
when the third order magnitude  spiral path was magnified,
an even smaller spiral path was detected.

This continuing "spirals with spirals" paths were detected
down  to  the  limits  of  the   magnification  technology
available to Dr. Ehrenhaft.

I have often wondered,  over the years,  if these "spirals
within spirals" are  related to the Hypothetical motion of
the gyroscopic  particle  throughout the "shells of force"
comprising  magnetic fields, as pictured on pages 10/11 of
The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman.

In viewing  these  microphotographs,  one had the distinct
impression that something phenomenal was happening, but no
definitive explanation for the observations was presented.

                                  --- Evan Soule'
__________________________________________________________

The  following  is  a  paper  (one  of  many)  written  by
Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft:


                  THE MAGNETIC CURRENT

        [Published in SCIENCE, Volume 94, No. 2436]


   Not only  electric  current but also  magnetic currents
flow through the universe.

   I reached this conclusion by consecutive and persistent
observation of  single  submicroscopic particles suspended
in gases.(^1)   Using  this  method in my small condenser,
I can  measure  forces  of  an  order of magnitude down to
10^-10 dynes.  Therefore, my measurement of forces is more
sensitive  by  the factor of 10^4 than any direct measure-
ments of forces made so far.  I was able to find new facts
because methods of the highest  possible  sensitivity were
used.

    These observations can be summed up in two sentences:

     (1) PARTICLES OF MATTER, IRRADIATED BY A CONCENTRATED
BEAM OF LIGHT, MOVE IN A  HOMOGENEOUS  ELECTRIC AS WELL AS
MAGNETIC FIELD IN OR AGAINST THE LINES OF FORCE.

(Electro-photophoresis,  magneto-photophoresis).   I  have
therefore concluded that these particles are charged under
the impact of light.   There  exist not only electric, but
also magnetic charges.

     (2) PARTICLES   OF  THE  SAME  KIND  AND   SIZE  MOVE
SIMULTANEOUSLY  TOWARD AND  AGAINST THE PROPAGATION OF THE
LIGHT.

I called the  movement away from the light, lightpositive,
and  that  toward  the  light,  lightnegative longitudinal
photophoresis.(^2)  I  have  therefore  concluded that the
light beam has potential differences along its propagation
which cause the particles  on which charges are induced to
move in or against the direction  of propagation.   To the
well-known oscillating fields in the beam of light have to
be added these stationary electric and magnetic fields.

    Before such fundamental  conclusions can be drawn, one
must first  see if there is no other  explanation possible
in accord with  existing theories.  Working for decades on
the experiments and their interpretation,  I was forced to
believe that  only such an  electromagnetic interpretation
can be in accordance with all observable facts.

    Heat  or  mechanical  effects --- so-called radiometer
forces (Crookes)  ---  cannot  account for these phenomena
for the following reason:   There is a photophoretic force
in liquids which is of the  same order  of magnitude as in
gases,  although  no  radiometer  forces exist in liquids.
Silver or copper  particles in gases which are  reflecting
strongly  exhibit  a  tremendous  lightnegative  movement,
though they ought to be most heated on the side toward the
light, and one would expect a movement away from the light.
It  seems  impossible  to explain the reversibility of the
particles with corresponding  reversals of the field.  The
energy  of  the  fields   alone  is  responsible  for  the
orientation of the  particles  and is a quadratic function
of the  potentials.   One  therefore  should  not expect a
change of direction in the  motion  of uncharged particles
if the field is reversed.

   Were the movement due to heating effects, one could not
explain why the  particles move across and along the inner
part of the beam instead of going entirely out of it.   It
would  also  seem  strange  that  the  movement  of nickel
particles under the influence of the geomagnetic field, as
it was observed in my Institute in Vienna, Austria,  could
be compensated by a superposed magnetic field of about 0.4
gauss.

    Furthermore,  the  movement  of  the  particles always
follows the lines of force, no matter from which direction
the  light  may  come.   This  would  be impossible if the
movement were due to heating effects.  That some particles
start to move suddenly from rest,  that  the photophoretic
movement  suddenly  disappears  and sometimes increases or
decreases gradually, and many other observations cannot be
explained by mechanical or heat effects.

    When  I  came  to the conclusion that there are single
magnetic poles (magnetic charges),  it  was  therefore not
necessary  to  ask  if this agreed with existing theories,
but rather  whether  there are any experimental facts that
contradict it. It can be stated here that so far there are
no experimental facts  which contradict this conclusion of
the existence of  single  magnetic poles.   A study of the
literature  made  with  Leo  Banet  showed  the  following
situation:

   It has been the predominating opinion up to the present
time  that  a   real  quantity  of  positive  or  negative
electricity can be enclosed  within an arbitrarily  chosen
geometric surface. But no matter how the surface is chosen,
it will always  enclose the same amount of south and north
magnetism.   In  other words, there are true quantities of
electricity  of  either  sign,  but no true magnetic ones.
This statement  has been made quite clearly by James Clerk
Maxwell in his  "Treatise  on  Electricity and Magnetism."
Maxwell  tried  to  prove  that there was no such thing as
true  magnetism.  May  I remind you here that in principio
it is impossible  to prove from experiments that something
is non-existent.   Furthermore,  the two experiments which
Maxwell quotes are not conclusive:

    The  first  one  states that a broken magnet gives two
entire magnets with equal poles.   If a non-magnetic piece
of iron is  broken,  it can be observed that the fragments
become magnetized in various ways on the broken ends.  The
effect  is the  same when a non-electrically charged glass
or  sulphur  rod  is broken, and shows at the ends various
kinds  of  electric  charges.  This  phenomenon  is easily
explained, since each breaking creates constriction.  Each
constriction,  however, creates electricity and magnetism.
The  breaking  experiment  therefore,  does not prove that
true magnetism does not exist, as Maxwell stated.

    The second experiment,  which probably originated with
the  ancient  Chinese  and  is  quoted  by  P.  Peregrinus
(anno 1269),  indicates  that a magnet floating upon water
directs itself,  but does not move.   From  this  has been
concluded that the  amount of north and south magnetism is
equal in each magnet.   It  is  easy  to perceive that the
mobility of such a  big  floating magnet is much too small
to show slight  differences of charge.   The  particles on
which my  observations were made have a mobility a million
times   greater  than  that  of  the  floating  magnet  of
Peregrinus.  Such particles irradiated with  light move in
a homogeneous magnetic field in the lines of force.   Thus
my sensitive experiment gives evidence of the existence of
true magnetism.   In  other  words,  the Peregrini-Maxwell
experiment turns out to be positive in my small condenser,
when light is used.

    My interpretation  not only explains  all observations
in a rather simple manner,  but also makes a number of new
conclusions   possible.    One  of  these  is  that  light
magnetizes   matter.     Leo  Banet  and  I  succeeded  in
magnetizing small  pieces of iron  by means of irradiation
with ultraviolet rays.   Lilly Rona has expressed the idea
that,  concluding  from  these  experiments,  it should be
possible  to  extract  electricity  from the beam of light
originating from these  stationary components.   I believe
that she is right,  and  that it could be done without the
use  of   the  photoelectric   effect,   that  means  with
deteriorating and decomposing matter itself.

    Under the influence of  the light,  matter  coagulates
more  readily  because  of  the  induced  poles (charges).
Sometimes the light separates  amorphous  and  crystalline
particles, and sometimes it makes  crystals grow toward it
(heliotropism of crystals).

    Light causes  irregularities  in Brownian movement and
therefore also in diffusion because of photophoresis.

    Light causes  ponderomotive  forces to act upon matter
apart  from  the  effects  of  the  light pressure.  These
ponderomotive   forces  are  produced  by  the  stationary
components and induced charges. The latter have attracting
or repelling effects.

    I  determined  the  magnitude  of  the  charge  of the
magnetic  ion  and  found  it to  be  of the same order of
magnitude as the electric one.

    A new  phenomenon  which I called the trembling effect
found a simple  explanation,  the  frequent  change of the
magnetic charge  occurring predominantly  in weak magnetic
fields in the beam of light.

   Leo Banet has  drawn important conclusions in regard to
the  effects  on  the  sun  and  the  earth  that  will be
described in another paper.

   Now I shall say a few words about the MAGNETIC CURRENT.
We have shown the existence of unipolar  magnetic charges,
which flow in a homogeneous  magnetic field in or  against
the direction of the lines of force.  This can be observed
directly by means of a  microscope.   Therefore we have to
deal  with  magnetic currents  in a physical and technical
sense.  Around a magnetic current there exists an electric
field.  Furthermore, a magnetic current produces heat in a
medium conducting magnetism.

    I have  attempted  to show that a beam of light causes
or induces not only heat and electricity, but magnetism at
the same time.

--- Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft

New York, N.Y.

(^1)  F. Ehrenhaft,  Annalen  der  Physik,  56:  81, 1918;
Philo. Mag.,11: 141,1931; Annales de Physique, (Paris) 13:
151,  1940;  Phys.  Rev.,  57:  562  and  659, 1940; Jour.
Franklin Inst., 230, 381,  1940; Nature, 147: 25,  January
4, 1941;  F.  Ehrenhaft  and  L. Banet,  Nature, 147: 297,
March 8,  1941;  F.  Ehrenhaft,  Philosophy of Science, 8,
No.  3,  1941,   "The  Microcoulomb  Experiment"  (charges
smaller  than  the  electronic  charge),  see  p.  36;  F.
Ehrenhaft and Leo Banet, Philosophy of Science,  8, No. 3,
1941.   The older references about photophoresis are given
in Annales de Physique, 13: 151,
1940.

(2^) I have constructed  the apparatus on which the above-
mentioned phenomena could be seen at  C. Zeiss, Inc.,  New
York. Descriptions of the apparatus and of the experiments
are given in Annales de Physique, 13: 151,1940.

____________________________________________________________________________


     FURTHER FACTS CONCERNING THE MAGNETIC CURRENT

Published in the Journal of the American Physical Society


    The  hypothesis  of  the  electric current was founded
chiefly upon three facts:  The existence of electric ions,
the decomposition of water (electrolysis), the circulation
of the single  magnetic  pole around the constant electric
current.   Now  those  three  facts  have been observed in
magnetism as  well:   the existence  of magnetic ions, the
decomposition of water through the magnet  (magnetolysis),
the  circulation of  a single  electrostatic charge around
the constant magnetic current.

    In  the  microscope  one  observes  that different gas
bubbles as well as solid particles move in circles  around
the  axis  of  the   magnet   simultaneously  in  opposite
directions.  Each of them reverses its direction of motion
with the reversal of the magnetic field.  The bodies carry
positive or negative electrostatic charges.   The existing
laws of electrodynamics (Biot-Savart, H.A. Lorentz) cannot
explain the new facts because the electrostatic charges in
question are resting ones, etc.  Just as the line integral
of  the  magnetic  force  defines  the  intensity  of  the
electric  current  (Ch.  Oersted,  A. M. Ampere), the line
integral  of the electric  force defines the  intensity of
the magnetic current.  Electricity and magnetism represent
an  indivisible  union,   reaching  far  above  the  union
established by Faraday, Maxwell, and Hertz.

    The  electrodynamic  equations  must  be  extended  to
include the term of  magnetic current.   These theses will
be illustrated by microphotographs of the experiments.*

    *The  experiments  could  be  seen  at C. Zeiss, Inc.,
New York City.

Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft, New York, N.Y.


See also:  Physical Review, Vol. 65, Nos. 9 and 10,  May 1
and  15,  1944,  page   287  for  letter  entitled,   "The
Decomposition of  Water by the  So-Called Permanent Magnet
and  the  Measurement  of  the  Intensity  of the Magnetic
Current" by Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft.

See also:   "Single Magnetic Northpoles and Southpoles and
Their Importance for Science"  ---  Ten Lectures delivered
at the University of Vienna during  the summer semester of
1947 by Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft, U.S. Visiting Professor

[compiled with the assistance of Professor Ehrenhaft,  and
Dr. Schedling, by J. Ferber and P.K. Feyerabend].

See also: Lectures delivered in 1949 at the European Forum
Alpbach by Felix Ehrenhaft,  Karl Popper, Rosenfeld, M.H.L.
Pryce,  Max Hartmann,  Duncan Sandys,  Von Hayek, and Hans
Thirring.

__________________________________________________________

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman@earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 00:47:53 1997
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Message-ID: <332325DA.3A4D@ipgeek.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 21:04:26 +0000
From: Albert Yang <lithium@ipgeek.com>
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Organization: Oriental Guild Resources
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To: Free Energy <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
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My mind works in kind of a weird way and so I had a thought.  This is
what I call my "ElectroMagnetic Corn Starch" property.  If you take corn
starch, mix it with some water, then press on it, it seems to have
"dried" up and squeezed all the water out... but in fact, the pressure
makes it super-absorbant and so it just contained all the water
internally, and when you release the pressure, it liquidates again.  So
we sometimes we are actually doing that I think electromagnetically but
we just don't know it yet.  We think that something is happening but the
direct opposite is happening to such a degree that we don't recognize
it.

I don't know if you understand what I am thinking or saying...  But is
there any way that we can somehow add electricity (water) to an
electricity holder (corn starch) and then apply pressure so it doesn't
release any electricity, then when we do need it, we can release the
pressure thereby releasing the electricity?  The super-absorbancy of the
corn starch means that we can keep adding water (to a certain point), so
I figure we can probably come up with a way to do the same thing for
electricity. 

Albert


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 00:51:23 1997
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From: mikec@jax.gulfnet.com (Mike Coward)
Subject: Re:Is there an alien presence in the cosmos 
Old-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:54:42 -0500
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With all the carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen in the universe 
I refuse to believe Earth is the only environment 
capable of forming animals.

U.Sov.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 12:59:35 1997
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Keasy@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Related to this topic, I have found it very interesting that *any* extended
> conductor
> in air will accumulate an easily measurable amount of charge in a matter of a
> few
> seconds. If the conductor happens to be one side of a capacitor doesn't seem
> to
> matter.  My experiments seemed to indicate that whether or not the capacitor
> was
> charged did not matter either (using only *one* side of the capacitor as a
> test
> conducting mass).
>    If anyone has an interest in the details I will send or post them.
Yes, I,m interested.Please send the information. At you conve3nience.
Thanks,
Joe Skues

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 15:01:55 1997
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Message-ID: <33234A33.1D01@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:09:31 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: External Flux Density with Opposing Magnets
References: <1078525918.91681356@compcafe.co.uk>
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Geoff Greaves wrote:
> 
> Isn't this as expected because with attracting poles the flux flows straight
> between the poles but with opposing poles it is forced out of the air-gap
> where its effect can be felt? Rather like squeezing a balloon, the harder you
> squeeze the further out the balloon reaches. Similarly, the closer the
> opposing poles the further out the flux will reach but with no more power,
> analagous to the unchanged volume of the balloon.

Hi Geoff,

Not so.  The force of attraction on the ferrite is based on the square
of the flux density.  If you double the flux density, you will get four
times the force of attraction.

This is really just a nice lab trick to get high flux densities outside
an air gap.  Sometimes this is usefull.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 15:50:53 1997
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:22:10 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: tilleyrw@digital.net (Robert Tilley)
Subject: Engineering Help
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  I have an experiment in mind that might demonstrate perpetual motion.

  Use a simple TOMI track with roller.  It has been demonstrated that the
roller will travel to the end of the track.  It has also been demonstrated
that if you pick of the roller and turn it 180 degrees, it will travel back
down the track.

  Question:  Using ordinary engineering, attempt to construct two "devices"
(for
             lack of a better word) that would turn the roller 180 degrees and
             be powered only by the energy inherent in the roller from having
             traveled the length of the track.  Can this be done?

  If this is possible, you could lay the roller in the track and it would
go from one end to the other, ad infinitum.

  Any engineers in the house???

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Tilley                       |  "Be very careful what you wish
tilleyrw@digital.net                |   for, you just might get it."
robert.tilley-1@kmail.ksc.nasa.gov  |  -- Anonymous


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 17:53:54 1997
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From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood)
Subject: Re: The Magnetic Current and Single Magnetic Charges
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>In the past week, several individuals have privately written me regarding
>the work of Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft.  I am therefore posting the following for
>the benefit of those who may not have read this information:
>
>Subject: The Magnetic Current and Single Magnetic Charges
>...snip...

>During  the  course of  the  experiment, the motion of the
>particles  traced  out  a  "spiral"  path.   However, upon
>magnification  of a given section  of a given spiral,  one
>saw a  "spiral" path within the path of the larger spiral.
>When a section of this  second order magnitude spiral path
>was  magnified  one  saw  an  even smaller  "spiral"  path
>comprising this second order magnitude spiral path.....and
>when the third order magnitude  spiral path was magnified,
>an even smaller spiral path was detected.
>
>This continuing "spirals with spirals" paths were detected
>down  to  the  limits  of  the   magnification  technology
>available to Dr. Ehrenhaft.

>...snip...

When I read this, my first thought was the
"BABBITS Ultimate Physical Atom, UPA".
Found in the books:
"The Principles of Light and Color", by Edwin D Babbit.
and
"Occult Chemistry", by Leadbeater and Besant.

If we humans ever is going to make real free-energy-devices then they
will be a exact replica of one of natures own 'devices'.
Why not that with the UPA?
1) Take 1000meter of a isolated wire and twist it around a nail.
2) twist the twisted wire around a little bigger nail.
3) repeat this 7 times.
4) check for anomalities ...
exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet!
mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se
http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 18:43:52 1997
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From: mindtech@om.com.au
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 06:47:34 +1000
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Try using convergent magnetic fields, pulsed relative to the distance
between the two (dissimilar) electrodes. In Japan "battery life doublers"
are sold based on magnetic effects. Some years ago, Flanagan published an
interesting book on "tensor fields". A system of communications tuning using
metal plates bowed under compression.

Peter Nielsen



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 20:39:21 1997
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <tammetta@jumanji.clubelite.com>
From: "Ben Tammetta" <tammetta@mindspring.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:23:38 +0000
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Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
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Hello,

> > 
> > Good Evening,
> > 
> >    Has anyone checked out the plans for the GMD at the Project Magnet Site?
> 
> What's the site address?

I think this is it.
http://www.cascadia-net.com/magnet/PMP1.htm
Pretty intersting but is much different that Hamel's original 
designs.  Seems like the base should be metalic and larger magnets 
should be used.
 
> > Has anyone out there experimented with the cone idea using the magnets in a
> > state of unbalance caused by the control mechanism? What about some
> > simplified experiments in this area?

I hope to try some simple experiments to see if the thing actually 
spins when the magnetic presure is applied from above. "The Butterfly 
Effect" .... wobbleing... and fluttering that turns into a 
rotation.. that ionizes air and charges the surface of the 
cones.......hhhmmmm.?

> > "wobble" the gate to achieve this spin. Has anyone tried this having the
> > gate magnet mounted on a support structure? Has anyone tried to mount the
> > ball on ball thrust bearing( or something of that nature) to keep it
> > stationary to achieve the spin? I've noticed at a certain angle the ball and
> > magnet will stay stationery and maintain a spin.

I did not notice this.... I have some AVI movies of my results here.

http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin

good luck,

ben
ben@clubelite.com





######################
# Ben Tammetta       #
# ben@clubelite.com  # 
######################

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 00:10:17 1997
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Message-ID: <33251E78.3EC@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:27:28 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Tolman Effect
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Hi All,

Does anybody have any info on the Tolman Effect.  Came across it while
doing research into unusual magnetic effects.

Basically what I currently know is that the effect refers to a EMF
generation in metals due to acceleration.  Seems the electrons are
ripped from their orbits by the acceleration and can cause current flow. 

If this is so, I am having trouble seeing how electrical power thus
generated will result in a increase in the accelerating energy
requirements.

Can any of you vortexians drag data from your data banks and comment?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 00:43:57 1997
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From: "Sam Gordon" <lance@bluegrass.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: WHAT TYPES OF RADIANT ENERGY WAS CREATED BY THE FIRST ATOMIC BOMB?
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     What types of energy created by the first atomic explosions could have
escaped the 
Earth and traveled out into space? If these energies are in wave form could
one determine the frequency, if so how? Could the explosion cause the area
to vibrate causing the crystaline structures in the rock to produce RF that
could travel into space? And of course is it possible to determine this
frequency?
 
 
Thanks
Sam G.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 01:14:38 1997
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Subject: Barkenhausen Effect Battery Charger
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Hi Bob,

I came across the following while doing other research.  Do you think
the effect may help to explain the output from your Barkenhausen Effect
Battery Charger?

I quote from the "Handbook of Magnetic Phenomena", 1988, Harry E. Burke,
ISBN 0-442-21184-8 (One of the best handbooks I ever purchased) :

"When a number of magnetons exposed to a common magnetic field align
themselves with that field, two alignments are possible: parallel (with
the imposed field) and antiparallel (opposite to the imposed field).  A
slight difference in the energy content of these two directions can be
detected when a magneton is made to flip from one orientation to the
other.  This energy difference derives from the distortion of the
aligning field that occurs in the presence of each magneton field.  In
this case, parallel orientations represent a little less energy than
antiparallel orientations do.

When immersed in weak magnetic fields, some magnetons axes remain
thermally excited in random directions, some aligning with the field and
some against the field.  There are always more magnetons aligned with
than against, however.  In stronger fields, all susceptible magnetons
are aligned either with or against the common field.  As field
intensities increase, the number aligned with increases, whereas the
number aligned against decreases.

All the magnetons in a material are exposed simultaneously to both
thermal forces and aligning magnetic-field forces.  These two forces
interrelate.  Flipping back and forth between parallelism and
antiparallelism is part of a material's normal thermal activities. 
Although the time at which a particular magneton reverses direction is
of a random derivation, the relative density of parallel and
antiparallel populations is a constant that depends both on the strength
of the imposed field and on temperature.

As a result of the flipping back and forth between parallelism and
antiparallelism, ENERGY IS CONSTANTLY RADIATED from body of magnetized
material."

So, as a body, thermal domain flipping (rotation) should not be able to
generate any generalized, global energy output.  However.

If we now consider a magnetic material biased to be at the max point of
Barkenhausen noise generation and realize that this noise is generated
by domain wall pinning due to local crystal imperfections, one could see
a local thermal flipping of the domains, adjacent to the pinned wall,
which would overcome the local pinning, release the domain wall and
generate a Barkenhausen output pulse due to the domain avalanche which
would result.

Bob, what do you think?  

Have you run a test series looking at output as a function of
temperature?

Have you developed a method to convert random thermal domain movement
into power?  If so, we may be able to increase the energy output.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 07:10:52 1997
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Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 06:43:39 -0800
From: Tixif@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:43:01 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970311094256_1550180536@emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Is there an alien presence in the cosmos 
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In a message dated 97-03-10 01:55:07 EST, you write:

<< Could there be the possibility even with our most up to date Satellite
 and radio telescopes equipment that in our arrogance we think
 can't be surpassed  HAS  ACTUALLY BEEN BY OTHERS IN THE COSMOS
 and as such we looking for something that no longer exists.
 

 Could this be a reason no intelligent life has yet been found
 out there or so we are told >>


Exactly the subject of an excellent novel by Carl Sagen (d. 1996) called Conta
ct.
Highly recommended - fast, easy reading when you feel the need to escape the
technical and wander in the fanciful.

Shawn

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 07:29:07 1997
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:01:11 -0800
From: Jester <mother@eagle.cc.ukans.edu>
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If I wanted to communicate with other's across the universe I wouldn't
use radio waves or the like, too much signal loss as it passes through
the cosmos. The ideal way to communicate would be through a medium that
did not degrade over long distances such as gravitational waves.
Just a thought,
Nate

-- 
"How can you be in two places at once when your not anywhere at all?"

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 08:05:24 1997
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From: Michael Randall <mrandall@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
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At 11:23 PM 3/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>> > 
>> > Good Evening,
>> > 
>> >    Has anyone checked out the plans for the GMD at the Project Magnet Site?
>> 
>> What's the site address?
>
>I think this is it.
>http://www.cascadia-net.com/magnet/PMP1.htm
>Pretty intersting but is much different that Hamel's original 
>designs.  Seems like the base should be metalic and larger magnets 
>should be used.
 
Have you read the book on Hamel, The Granite Man and the Butterfly?
Sinclair's GMD looks close to Hamels early drawing, and clearer. Hamel said
he used 3,000, 1" magnets on his second magnetic unit that flew off into space. 

>> > Has anyone out there experimented with the cone idea using the magnets in a
>> > state of unbalance caused by the control mechanism? What about some
>> > simplified experiments in this area?
>
>I hope to try some simple experiments to see if the thing actually 
>spins when the magnetic presure is applied from above. "The Butterfly 
>Effect" .... wobbleing... and fluttering that turns into a 
>rotation.. that ionizes air and charges the surface of the 
>cones.......hhhmmmm.?

I am also planning to do the simple experiment the Hamel Spinner designed by
Bedini for the Butterfly Effect (http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/hamel.html).
Hamel recommends large diameter designs, in the 6' to 8' range for greater
effects.

>
>> > "wobble" the gate to achieve this spin. Has anyone tried this having the
>> > gate magnet mounted on a support structure? Has anyone tried to mount the
>> > ball on ball thrust bearing( or something of that nature) to keep it
>> > stationary to achieve the spin? I've noticed at a certain angle the
ball and
>> > magnet will stay stationery and maintain a spin.
>
>I did not notice this.... I have some AVI movies of my results here.
>
>http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin
>
Nice photo's! I see in your design you mounted 12 magnets on the outside of
the pipe verses Bedini's 14 magnets on the inside of a 4" ABS pipe. 

>good luck,
>
>ben
>ben@clubelite.com
>
Thanks, Mike
>
>
>
>######################
># Ben Tammetta       #
># ben@clubelite.com  # 
>######################
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 13:19:14 1997
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:50:53 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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References: <199703111548.HAA06793@switzerland.it.earthlink.net>
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Michael Randall wrote:

> I am also planning to do the simple experiment the Hamel Spinner designed by
> Bedini for the Butterfly Effect (http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/hamel.html).
> Hamel recommends large diameter designs, in the 6' to 8' range for greater
> effects.

Methinks John Bedini has made an error here:

(from the web page)

> The way I think about this is that there is a "Magnetic combustion" that takes  > place in a field of zero.

But we know from Greg Watsons's Quick Field simulations, and from
emperical work that there is not "a field of zero" between opposed
magnet poles, but actually a far higher flux density than when the poles
are aiding.

> Do the simple experiment yourself, take two Magnets push the like poles together > and at that point the power of the magnet should be four times greater and the  > normal poles should be two times weaker.

Indeed with equal magnets, we have twice the flux, and four times the
attractive force as Greg has explained before.  I appears that John
Bedini is expecting the magnetic flux to undergo vector superposition,
which simply will not happen in this case.

"Magnetic combustion" sounds a bit like "Direct Nuclear Magnetic
Conversion" in general concept.  Both processes have (at times) been
described in association with vector superposition of magnetic flux.

But the flux from the macroscopic pole of a permanent magnet (or coil)
acts a bit differently than does the flux around a single conductor (due
to curl?).  While whole (macroscopic) poles will not superpose flux, the
flux around a single conductor does appear to undergo true vector
superposition in a bifilar (non-inductive) coil.

Of course, a non-inductive bifialar coil wont store energy in it's
non-existant field, much less return more energy than was stored, so
it's hard to understand where this "Magnetic combustion" is in reality.

So my question is what is the conventional explaination for this
apparent difference in the behavior of magnetic flux in these differing
conditions?

Whats different about the flux around a conductor (with current flowing)
and that of a permenent magnet? (shades of Hooper?)

Any ideas out there?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 13:49:34 1997
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Message-Id: <199703112123.QAA18291@w3.bluegrass.net>
From: "Sam Gordon" <lance@bluegrass.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Fw: WHAT TYPES OF RADIANT ENERGY WAS CREATED BY THE FIRST ATOMIC BOMB?
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:22:18 -0500
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----------
> From: Sam Gordon <lance@bluegrass.net>
> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: WHAT TYPES OF RADIANT ENERGY WAS CREATED BY THE FIRST ATOMIC
BOMB?
> Date: Monday, March 10, 1997 10:23 AM
> 
>      What types of energy created by the first atomic explosions could
have
> escaped the 
> Earth and traveled out into space? If these energies are in wave form
could
> one determine the frequency, if so how? Could the explosion cause the
area
> to vibrate causing the crystaline structures in the rock to produce RF
that
> could travel into space? And of course is it possible to determine this
> frequency?
>  
>  
> Thanks
> Sam G.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 13:59:29 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: Tolman Effect
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Hi Greg and All,
   Here's some info on the Tolman effect:

1) "In these experiments a circular coil of wire, wound tightly on a rigid
nonmagnetic bobbin, was rotated at high speed about its (vertical) axis, and
was quickly brought to rest with suitable brakes...In circuit with the coil
to be tested was another coil wound to have the same total area and placed
parallel, but oppositely connected, so that fluctuations in the earth's
magnetic field had a minimum effect on the galvanometer. The rotating coil
was surrounded with a coil of wire so constructed and so oriented as
approximately to neutralize, when transversed by a suitable electric
current, the vertical intensity of the earth's field in the region occupied
by the coil. This was desirable in order to eliminate the electromotive
force which would have been induced in the coil by its centrifugal expansion
across the vertical intensity..
In making an experiment the coil was first brought up to full speed, and the
galvanometer zero reading taken, then the brakes were applied and the coli
brought to rest (in a fraction of a second). Then the throw of the
galvanometer was determined."

2)  "..Thus the acceleration of the electrons in the conductor produces in
it an intrinsic electromotive force E= -(ml/e)(dV/dt)." 
m= mass of electron
e= charge of electron
l= circumference of rotating coil
V= linear velocity of coil 

3) Quite a number of experiments were done by several researchers. In the
review paper from which the above quotes were taken, no values for E were
given. It was said, however, "The investigation of Tolman, Karrer, and
Guernsey gave a mean value of m/e 8 percent less than the standard value for
free electrons; the more elaborate investigation of Tolman and Mott-Smith a
value 19 percent less than the standard value; while that of Tolman and
Stewart gave a value 15 percent less than the standard value. In the work of
Tolman and Mott-Smith the phase of the electromagnetic force due to
electron-inertia lagged about 10+6 behind that of -dV/dt, while the two
values should be cophasal according to the theory. No explanation of this
discrepancy was found."
You can figure out the value of the EMF from this information.

There's a lot more in this paper I'm looking at, but that's the gist of it
as far as the Tolman effect is concerned. A few points I'd like to make:

1) The derivation of the equation for EMF includes a term for the friction
of the electrons within the metal. Thus the effect would be much greater in
a superconductor.

2) Note the phrase in (1) above, .."in order to eliminate the electromotive
force which would have been induced in the coil by its centrifugal expansion
across the vertical intensity." This implies that a magnetostatic field with
lines of force parallel to the axis would increase the EMF. It should be
noted that the equations of motion for a charge in a magnetic field are
identical to equations of motion of a mass in a "centrifugal field". (As an
aside: there is a recent development in Black Hole theory which shows that
the Huygens view of centrifugal force as a real force is accurate as opposed
to the Newtonian model. Also, it appears from one paper I have that it is
possible to extract power from the centrifugal force in a rotating object
without affecting the rotational energy.)

3) Acceleration generates the force, not velocity: (dV/dt). So extremely
abrupt back and forth acceleration of the disc would be more effective than
steady unidirectional acceleration. (And would produce AC power).

4) What if you used charged, heavy ions in a metallic crystal lattice where
they could move freely? Since the effect depends on the mass of the
particle, it would be greatly increased.

5) Mechanically moving a coulomb of electrons one meter takes less energy
than electromagnetically moving them. As physical objects they are extremely
light with very little inertia, as electrical objects they exhibit marked
resistance to movement. Maybe that's why electrostatic machines keep popping
up in overunity work.

All quotes are from:
"Gyromagnetic and Electron-Inertia Effects" by S.J. Barnett
Reviews of Modern Physics, V. 7, Apr. 1935

(I don't have the centrifugal force papers handy)

Hope this information helps.  Let me know if you want more..
                        Fred





 


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 14:00:31 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:36:58 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970311163657_1183247819@emout06.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Subject: Hamel Spinning disc NEW DESIGN
Resent-Message-ID: <"kA_5D3.0.F37.I5T9p"@mx2>
Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Hi ALL,

I have experimented a NEW DESIGN (without Magnetic Gate poles inward) of
Hamel Spinning disc ( V3.0 for me), it use a simple ring ferrite magnet 135
mm outer diam. and 35 mm inner diam. with South pole upward and North pole
DOWNWARD. The Hamel spinning disc is build with a ring magnet (outer diam.70
mm, inner diam. 33 mm, 8 mm thick) sticked on a 67 mm steel ball (490 gr
weight) with south pole UPWARD. This experience must be executed on a hard
and clean surface ( glass is better ).
With this new design it is interesting to notice that hamel disc start to
spin very fast with high energy, if it is started just at 20mm below the hole
of the handle magnet. 

It easy to build and low cost ( 2 simples rings ferrite magnets ).... I can
say today, if it is possible to extract some Free Energy Power (???) with it,
but it is an amazing device, and I like to play with it !!!   :-)

I have put in my web server : all schematics diagrams, pictures, and a 264k
QuickTime video which show in action......

at : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

.....Have FUN !!!      :-)


Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 14:11:07 1997
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From: "steve pelet" <stevepel@axs2000.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:27:05 -0500
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----------
> From: Michael Randall <mrandall@earthlink.net>
> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
> Date: Tuesday, March 11, 1997 10:48 AM
> 
> At 11:23 PM 3/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
> >> > 
> >> > Good Evening,
> >> > 
> >> >    Has anyone checked out the plans for the GMD at the Project
Magnet Site?
> >> 
> >> What's the site address?
> >
> >I think this is it.
> >http://www.cascadia-net.com/magnet/PMP1.htm
> >Pretty intersting but is much different that Hamel's original 
> >designs.  Seems like the base should be metalic and larger magnets 
> >should be used.
>  
> Have you read the book on Hamel, The Granite Man and the Butterfly?
> Sinclair's GMD looks close to Hamels early drawing, and clearer. Hamel
said
> he used 3,000, 1" magnets on his second magnetic unit that flew off into
space. 
> 
> >> > Has anyone out there experimented with the cone idea using the
magnets in a
> >> > state of unbalance caused by the control mechanism? What about some
> >> > simplified experiments in this area?
> >
> >I hope to try some simple experiments to see if the thing actually 
> >spins when the magnetic presure is applied from above. "The Butterfly 
> >Effect" .... wobbleing... and fluttering that turns into a 
> >rotation.. that ionizes air and charges the surface of the 
> >cones.......hhhmmmm.?
> 
> I am also planning to do the simple experiment the Hamel Spinner designed
by
> Bedini for the Butterfly Effect
(http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/hamel.html).
> Hamel recommends large diameter designs, in the 6' to 8' range for
greater
> effects.
> 
> >
> >> > "wobble" the gate to achieve this spin. Has anyone tried this having
the
> >> > gate magnet mounted on a support structure? Has anyone tried to
mount the
> >> > ball on ball thrust bearing( or something of that nature) to keep it
> >> > stationary to achieve the spin? I've noticed at a certain angle the
> ball and
> >> > magnet will stay stationery and maintain a spin.
> >
> >I did not notice this.... I have some AVI movies of my results here.
> >
> >http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin
> >
> Nice photo's! I see in your design you mounted 12 magnets on the outside
of
> the pipe verses Bedini's 14 magnets on the inside of a 4" ABS pipe. 
> 
> >good luck,
> >
> >ben
> >ben@clubelite.com
> >
> Thanks, Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >######################
> ># Ben Tammetta       #
> ># ben@clubelite.com  # 
> >######################
> >
> >
> >
> 
hello, does anyone know where I can get plans for this magnetic spinner?
like full detailed plans.

thanks
steve
stevepel@axs2000.net

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 14:21:28 1997
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From: mindtech@om.com.au
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 07:25:00 +1000
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: permanent magnet toroid
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Found this interesting (?) patent. A toroidal waveguide using _permanent_
magnets to accelerate electrons. Comments invited. Is that voltage gain I=
 hear?

Peter Nielsen, E.E.

5422618 : Toroidal permanent magnet solenoid=20
------------------------------------------------------------------------
INVENTORS:Leupold; Herbert A., Eatontown, NJ
ASSIGNEES:The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of
the Army, Washington, DC
ISSUED:June=A06 , 1995 FILED:July=A019, 1994=20

ABSTRACT:=A0=A0 A permanent magnet solenoid structure utilizes a hollow,
tubular, toroidally-shaped flux source, an interior working space, a
magnetizing member having an end magnet and two pole pieces. The magnetizing
member intersects the flux source and the interior working space with the
desired magnetic field being confined to the interior working space of the
toroid by having a cladding magnet in contact with the outer surface of the
toroidal supply magnet. In another embodiment, the interior working space is
an annular ring rather than being toroidally-shaped. In yet another
embodiment, the interior working space is an annular ring and an aperture or
tunnel is provided through the magnetizing member so that electron particles
can be electrostatically or thermally created, accelerated around the
interior working space and then collected at a certain point within the
interior working space.

U.S. REFERENCES:=20

Re 33736 Clarke Nov.=A01 , 1991 5063004 Leupold Nov.=A01 , 1991 4911627=
 Leupold
Mar.=A01 , 1990 4731598 Clarke Mar.=A01 , 1988 5216400 Leupold June=A01 ,=
 1993
5216401 Leupold June=A01 , 1993 4837542 Leupold June=A01 , 1989 4839059=
 Leupold
June=A01 , 1989 4592889 Leupold et al.June=A01 , 1986

What is claimed is:

=951. A permanent magnet solenoid structure, which comprises:=20
=95(a) a hollow, tubular, toroidally-shaped flux source producing a magnetic=
 flux;

=95(b) said flux source having a longitudinal axis, an inner surface, an
interior working space and an outer surface;

=95(c) said interior working space having a longitudinal axis and being
enclosed by said flux source;

=95(d) a magnetizing member having an input pole piece and an output pole
piece, an end magnet, said end magnet being interposed between said pole
pieces, said pole pieces being made of iron and dimensioned to sandwich said
end magnet;

=95(e) said magnetizing member intersecting both said flux source and said
interior working space along a line drawn from the concentric axes of said
flux source and said interior working space to said outer surface of the
flux source;

=95(f) said flux source having a clockwise magnetization orientation through
said flux source and said magnetizing member having a counterclockwise
magnetization orientation;

=95(g) a cladding magnet, being dimensioned to surround said flux source,
having an inner surface and an exterior surface, said inner surface of the
cladding magnet being in contact with said outer surface of said flux
source, and said exterior surface being outwardly conically tapered;

=95(h) said flux source forcing said magnetic flux into said interior=
 working
space through said input pole piece and extracting said magnetic flux
through said output pole piece; and

=95(i) said exterior surface of the cladding magnet being contoured to=
 confine
said magnetic flux within said interior working space.

OTHER REFERENCES:=20

=95H. A. Leupold et al., A Catalogue Of Novel Permanent-Magnet Field
Sources,th International Workshop on Rare-Earth Magnets and Their
Applications, Bad Soden, Paper No. W3.2, FRG, Aug. 31-Sep. 2, 1987, (pp.
109-123. =95H. A. Leupold et al., Novel High-Field Permanent-Magnet Flux
Sources, IEEE Transactions On Magnetics, vol. MAG-23, No. 5, Sep. 1987, (pp.
3628-3629). =95H. A. Leupold et al., Bulk Reduction And Field Enhancement In
Periodic Permanent-Magnetic Structures, IEEE Transactions On Electron
Devices, vol. ED-34, No. 8, Aug. 1987, (pp. 1868-1872).=20




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 15:41:03 1997
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From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves)
Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Cc: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
Subject: More Hamel Spinning Tops
Date: 11 Mar 1997 23:09:13 GMT
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Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK
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First was Sintered Ferrite ring 60od x 24id x 8h with a steel 32d ball bearing
and eight 50 x 19 x 6 evenly spaced around a 100d plasic tube. 
Yes, I got it spinning with no trouble. Well, perhaps "revolving" rather
"spinning" which to my mind implies enough speed that it would not
immediately fall over when the top magnet was lifted away. ie. "spinning like
a top", which it wasn't.
Also used a similar 72od x 32id x 14h with a 40d ball. Same result.
Increased rectangular magnets to 17 (maximum to fit around tube) which made
things a bit easier as the stronger field meant the plastic tube could be
held higher above the rotating magnet but no real differences.

Ben Tammetta said:
I could not get the top to spin using a 2 1/4 inc magnet (same as top magnet)
instead of the PVC pipe arrangment, so the stator arangement of 12 one inch
magnets seems important. 

I also found that it would not work with a same sized magnet above the
rotator, but that it would with a larger magnet. eg. using the 72od magnet
above the 60od magnet worked as did using a rectangular 152 x 101 x 12.7
Sintered Ferrite block.

Ben Tammetta said:
In my opinion, the top would not spin if it was in a fixed position. It only
spins because it is able to roll across a flat surface. 

Placing the ball bearing in a hemispherical cup of small ball bearings
allowing free rolling rotation but no lateral movement I could not impart any
rotation to the magnet/ball assembly or keep any finger-imparted spin
sustained.

I tried John Bedini's suggestion and placed three Sintered Neodymium Iron
Boron  10d x 5h disc magnets around the outer edge of the 60od ring magnet.
This increased the speed of revolution somewhat but it seemed that this was
because of a stabilising effect rather than any new motive force. Adding more
Neo's didn't improve matters further and by the time nine were in place their
combined fields all but negated the attraction between the rotating ring
magnet and the overhead magnet.

Reversing the poles made no difference to my results. All sizes in
millimetres.

So, nothing to get excited about. I plan to try the same thing but with
magnetic suspension rather than a ball bearing which would allow even more
wobble with even less friction and be more like an element of the GMD. Anyone
else thinking along these lines?

Something of note. Rolling the neo's around the outer edge of the ferrite
ring magnets their preferred positions didn't immediately make sense. Perhaps
some iron filings will make it all obvious but I can recommend it as a
hand-held puzzle for those idle (?) moments!

Best wishes, Geoff Greaves



----------------------------------------
>From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
----------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 15:43:19 1997
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From: Steve_Kirkman_at_BI-USA@astec.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:02:09 -0800
Encoding: 22 Text
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re[2]: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
Message-Id: <97Mar11.145055pst.23062@firewall.astec.com>
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  I would be interested in full detailed plans also.

  TIA
  Steve Kirkman
  Steve_Kirkman_at_BI-USA@astec.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
Author:  freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet
Date:    3/11/97 1:41 PM


---------8< much stuff snipped ----------------------------
> 
hello, does anyone know where I can get plans for this magnetic spinner? 
like full detailed plans.
     
thanks
steve
stevepel@axs2000.net
     

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 16:10:48 1997
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test

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 17:41:31 1997
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From: Teague Family <teague@es.co.nz>
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Jerry  et al

As I noted elsewhere my approach is very intuitive/divergent. Your post
gels very nicely for me!

> Note that both Searl and Hamel's discs produced electrical disruptions by 
> somehow absorbing all electrical energy in the area (power outages).

Hmm... what was don Juan up to when Carlos (Castaneda) could not start
his car. 8-b

> I see this as tying into the Aether Spectrum where you slow down aether
> (very high freqs) to create magnetism, slow that down to create
> electricity, slow that down to create light, then heat, then sound, then
> physical vibration and finally matter.  E=MC^ and it is a reciprocal
> phenomenon.

Do you have any more on this that I can swot up? Where do the Tibetians
levitating their dirty great rocks fit in?
 
> So, flying devices and energy production from such a machine must be
> actually creating an implosive/centripetally moving region centered at
> the eye of the hurricane.

Yes... it will have to conform to what Schauberger has told us. Dragged
my notes out again recently and made a little progress.
 
> A little bit here, a little bit there, we'll get it.

Need lots of pictures though. I like Hamel's reference to the Egyptian
hieroglyphs!

Cheers... Rex

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:28:58 1997
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From: John Fields <starship@fc.net>
Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
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On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, Teague Family wrote:

> Jerry  et al
> 
> As I noted elsewhere my approach is very intuitive/divergent. Your post
> gels very nicely for me!
> 
> > Note that both Searl and Hamel's discs produced electrical disruptions by 
> > somehow absorbing all electrical energy in the area (power outages).
> 
> Hmm... what was don Juan up to when Carlos (Castaneda) could not start
> his car. 8-b
> 
> > I see this as tying into the Aether Spectrum where you slow down aether
> > (very high freqs) to create magnetism, slow that down to create
> > electricity, slow that down to create light, then heat, then sound, then
> > physical vibration and finally matter.  E=MC^ and it is a reciprocal
> > phenomenon.
> 
> Do you have any more on this that I can swot up? Where do the Tibetians
> levitating their dirty great rocks fit in?
>  
> > So, flying devices and energy production from such a machine must be
> > actually creating an implosive/centripetally moving region centered at
> > the eye of the hurricane.
> 
> Yes... it will have to conform to what Schauberger has told us. Dragged
> my notes out again recently and made a little progress.
>  
> > A little bit here, a little bit there, we'll get it.
> 
> Need lots of pictures though. I like Hamel's reference to the Egyptian
> hieroglyphs!
> 
> Cheers... Rex
> 
---------------
How DARE you, sir...?

Actually poking fun at us what's trying to figger it out without 
benefit of formal grammer (or speeling) trainin'!

For shame!

As for them Egyptian hieroglyphs, they're (their?) Greek to most of us, 
so don't try to get fancy here, buster. 

Just as an aside, you might want to try this:

1. Get, or make, a coil of superconducting material. (You know... tin 
   niobium copper oxide or some cermet like that.) 

2. Get, or make, a capacitor with superconducting plates and a lossless
   dielectric. 

   The lossless dielectric may seem difficult, but since 
   we're going to be driving it with an alternating potential, we can 
   cause perfect conductivity to occur if we can do the magic quadrature 
   trick and we're using the right material for the dielectric.  
   
   Likewise, we can cause perfect conductivity to occur if we can do 
   the magic quadrature trick just in time.  

   Being able to do both will allow us to use a singularity to move us 
   about in space and time just as we wish. 

   Don't you agree?
   
   John Fields
-------------- 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:37:01 1997
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From: Tixif@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:14:45 -0500 (EST)
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I've begun helping my son with a science project and he asked an interesting
question.  He and I had built a molecule of SIO2 (silicon dioxide) for a
previous project, so his familiarity with atomic structure was adequate.  His
current project was to test the conductivity of various materials (In his own
words, "Which substance conducts electricity better?").

In a five minute lesson, my ten year old grasped ohms law and could solve for
unknowns (That's a fifth grader whos current math lessons envolve adding and
subtracting mixed and improper fractions).  OK, enough bragging.

As we talked about a test setup (I had to keep safety in mind in a class full
of kids), we talked about magnetic feilds and coils of wire to produce
electricity - we also covered potential differrence and water falls and the
ability to do work.  He asked what the atomic structure looked like in a
magnetic material.  I was left to explaining about disorganized versus
arranged magnetic domains as follows (in my words):

Non-magnetic material is the unordered arrangement of "tiny" magnetic domains
and their disarray causes the substance to exhibit no external magnetism.
 Along the same line,  magnetized materials are stated to have arranged and
orderly domains where they now assist in exhibiting an external force.

This was adequate for him because of the visual pictures I could provide, but
in keeping with the truth and our next generation OU experimenters, we also
talked about the fact that no-one really knows (In about 8 years he'll be
driving college professors crazy or failing).

I have a basic education in electronics and this reminded me of the empty
feeling when science takes things on faith, much like what drives this group.
 His question, though, led me back to my college text and I began playing
with new questions (to me anyhow), all related to a unified field theory.

The first place I began looking for the connection was in a conductor that
has a field when current is passed.  In my review, I found the following
summary:

1. The magnetic lines are circular, as the field is symmetrical with respect
to the wire in the center.
2.  The magnetic field with circular lines of force is in a plane
perpendicular to the current in the wire.

A brief note here;  The accompanying figures showed a compass needle
deflecting in the rotation of the field.  This would appear to represent a
monopole to me or even no pole at all.  With regaurds to the Hamel Disk, the
question was posed, what is the differrence between the field around a
current and that of a permanent magnet.

I would like to know if in a straight conductor, the field is indeed in a
flat perpendicular plane or if it's possable that it corkscrews or something
else.  If it is a circular path, could anyone offer an explanation of why
this is not a monopole.

Shawn
Simplicity is beauty in nature and mathmatics!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:40:29 1997
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Message-ID: <3326293E.2AB8@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:25:42 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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mindtech@om.com.au wrote:
> 
> Found this interesting (?) patent. A toroidal waveguide using _permanent_
> magnets to accelerate electrons. Comments invited. Is that voltage gain I hear?
> 
> Peter Nielsen, E.E.
> 
> 5422618 : Toroidal permanent magnet solenoid
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> INVENTORS:Leupold; Herbert A., Eatontown, NJ
> ASSIGNEES:The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of
> the Army, Washington, DC

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the info.  Will have a look and get back.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:41:28 1997
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Message-ID: <33262E14.62F2@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:46:20 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Robert Tilley wrote:
> 
>   I have an experiment in mind that might demonstrate perpetual motion.

Hi Robert,

A better idea is to study the ferromagnetic version in patent #
4,215,330 by Hartman    "Permanent magnet propulsion system" (Tomi
like).  

This approach is different to Tomi as it involved a graduated magnetic
field produced by slowly reducing the magnet to magnet spacing as a
steel ball moves up a ramp.  I haven't simulated this yet, but it looks
very interesting and is worth a try.

Like Tomi, the ball drops from the top of the ramp to the start of
another ramp.  

Makes me wonder how originial the Tomi device is?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:50:08 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:33:56 +0930
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Ben Tammetta wrote:
> 
> > > "wobble" the gate to achieve this spin. Has anyone tried this having the
> > > gate magnet mounted on a support structure? Has anyone tried to mount the
> > > ball on ball thrust bearing( or something of that nature) to keep it
> > > stationary to achieve the spin? I've noticed at a certain angle the ball and
> > > magnet will stay stationery and maintain a spin.

Hi Ben,

I have, but it won't spin with the upper magnet held constant.  Moving
the upper assy magnet inputs energy into the lower spinning assy.  It
takes time to work out how to do this, but its all in the angles and
timing.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:51:25 1997
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FZNIDARSIC@aol.com wrote:
> 
>       THE PATH
> 
>       A while back there was considerable discussion on the Vortex
>       about complex energy systems with pulleys and magnets.  Scott
>       Little suggested that these discussions be moved to Frerig-L.
>       Thank you Scott.  These kind of machines attempt to extract
>       energy from force fields in in a cyclic manner (around a closed
>       path).  The error in the logic of such a devices may be
>       discovered with a simple thought experiment.  Suppose you have a
>       one pound ball and take it for a walk.  No matter where you go,
>       when you come back to the same place, the gravitational
>       potential energy contained by the ball returns to its initial
>       value.  It doesn't matter if you carry the ball through Cuba,
>       under the ice pack, and around the moon.  Upon your return to
>       start you will not gain a thing, the gravitational potential of
>       the ball returns to what it was when you started.  Not only does
>       it not matter what path you take it does not matter what forces
>       you experience on the trip.  That's what the little circles mean
>       on Maxwell's integrals.  The field is conservative around a
>       closed path.   As per Scotts Littles comments, it appears that
>       all fields are conservative including, gravity,
>       electromagnitism, the strong nuclear, and the Casimir.  Hal
>       Puthoff gets around this problem by throwing charge clusters
>       away.  The state of the system is changed. The path is not
>       closed.  The system now contains charge clusters.  If these
>       charge clusters are energetically favorable, where are they?  It
>       appears we free energy buffs are really stuck in the mud. Then
>       Scott gets me going and I state that we do not have to go around
>       a closed path but can tunnel from here to there.  Remember the
>       ball we took for a walk.  If classical systems could tunnel the
>       ball could jump to the top of Mt. Everest and, in the process,
>       get a spontaneous dose of gravitational potential energy.
>       Before Berry Merryman hammers me I should say, "I know, Berry,
>       tunneling does not occur unless it is energetically favorable"
>       If classical systems could tunnel we might tunnel down from Mt.
>       Everest (with considerable kinetic energy when we hit the
>       ground) but tunneling up is not energetically favorable or
>       possible.  Are we stuck in the mud again?  Not quite.  Let's
>       look at a tunneling process, Alpha decay.  The alpha tunnels out
>       of the nucleus and speeds away with considerable kinetic energy.
>       Where did the kinetic energy come from?  Of course, I know,
>       binding energy.  The nucleus that remains is more tightly bound.
>       It contains an amount of NEGATIVE binding energy that is
>       equivalent to the kinetic energy of that ejected alpha. Fields
>       are NOT conserved.  The negative binding energy is associated
>       with more of that strong nuclear flux.  With that in mind lets
>       look again at an electron in a zero point system or
>       superconductor.  We brutally hit the electron with an electronic
>       sludge hammer.  It tunnels though a phase change and winds up
>       on the other side with increased energy.  As in the case of
>       alpha decay more negative energy must remain behind to compensate for
>       this increased kinetic energy.  In this case the negative energy
>       that remains behind is in the form of additional gravitational
>       flux.  Can this happen?  If all conservation laws are obeyed it
>       can.  Then, why doesn't this process happen everywhere all the
>       time.  The process conserves energy, however,
>       it does not conserve angular momentum or spin.  Yes, that's why
>       we need the condensation.  Phonons within the condensation
>       supply the needed spin.  Wha-la new energy is produced and the
>       universe falls a little deeper into a gravitational hole.  As
>       Hal says, "It happened at least once"
> 
>       Don't let the word Gravity scare you away from the process.
>       (Frank Stenger   I''m taking about you now)
>       I know that we all know that the bigest brains have worked years to
>       unify gravity with electromagnitism, and they couldn't do it.
>       So what!!!   We use electronic devices without any knowledge of a
>       gravitational / electromagnetic unification.  All that we know (or
>       need to know) is how to exploit the symmetrical relationship that
>       exists between the electric and magnetic fields.  A similar
>       symmetrical relationship exists between force and gravity.
>       That's all the math we really need to know to understand the
>       process.  The derivations on the symmetrical gravitational/ force
>       relationship
>       are all on my "Book on a Disk".
> 
>       Does anyone other than Miley understand me?  It really easy not hard
>       at all.
> 
>       Frank Z

Hi Frank,

Don't discount ferromagnetic systems.  Would enjoy your comments on the
12 points of the operational characteristics of my DNMEC generator
posted earlier.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:52:12 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:23:27 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg and All,
>    Here's some info on the Tolman effect:
> 
> 1) "In these experiments a circular coil of wire, wound tightly on a rigid
> nonmagnetic bobbin, was rotated at high speed about its (vertical) axis, and
> was quickly brought to rest with suitable brakes...In circuit with the coil
> to be tested was another coil wound to have the same total area and placed
> parallel, but oppositely connected, so that fluctuations in the earth's
> magnetic field had a minimum effect on the galvanometer. The rotating coil
> was surrounded with a coil of wire so constructed and so oriented as
> approximately to neutralize, when transversed by a suitable electric
> current, the vertical intensity of the earth's field in the region occupied
> by the coil. This was desirable in order to eliminate the electromotive
> force which would have been induced in the coil by its centrifugal expansion
> across the vertical intensity..
> In making an experiment the coil was first brought up to full speed, and the
> galvanometer zero reading taken, then the brakes were applied and the coli
> brought to rest (in a fraction of a second). Then the throw of the
> galvanometer was determined."
> 
> 2)  "..Thus the acceleration of the electrons in the conductor produces in
> it an intrinsic electromotive force E= -(ml/e)(dV/dt)."
> m= mass of electron
> e= charge of electron
> l= circumference of rotating coil
> V= linear velocity of coil
> 
> 3) Quite a number of experiments were done by several researchers. In the
> review paper from which the above quotes were taken, no values for E were
> given. It was said, however, "The investigation of Tolman, Karrer, and
> Guernsey gave a mean value of m/e 8 percent less than the standard value for
> free electrons; the more elaborate investigation of Tolman and Mott-Smith a
> value 19 percent less than the standard value; while that of Tolman and
> Stewart gave a value 15 percent less than the standard value. In the work of
> Tolman and Mott-Smith the phase of the electromagnetic force due to
> electron-inertia lagged about 10+6 behind that of -dV/dt, while the two
> values should be cophasal according to the theory. No explanation of this
> discrepancy was found."
> You can figure out the value of the EMF from this information.
> 
> There's a lot more in this paper I'm looking at, but that's the gist of it
> as far as the Tolman effect is concerned. A few points I'd like to make:
> 
> 1) The derivation of the equation for EMF includes a term for the friction
> of the electrons within the metal. Thus the effect would be much greater in
> a superconductor.
> 
> 2) Note the phrase in (1) above, .."in order to eliminate the electromotive
> force which would have been induced in the coil by its centrifugal expansion
> across the vertical intensity." This implies that a magnetostatic field with
> lines of force parallel to the axis would increase the EMF. It should be
> noted that the equations of motion for a charge in a magnetic field are
> identical to equations of motion of a mass in a "centrifugal field". (As an
> aside: there is a recent development in Black Hole theory which shows that
> the Huygens view of centrifugal force as a real force is accurate as opposed
> to the Newtonian model. Also, it appears from one paper I have that it is
> possible to extract power from the centrifugal force in a rotating object
> without affecting the rotational energy.)
> 
> 3) Acceleration generates the force, not velocity: (dV/dt). So extremely
> abrupt back and forth acceleration of the disc would be more effective than
> steady unidirectional acceleration. (And would produce AC power).
> 
> 4) What if you used charged, heavy ions in a metallic crystal lattice where
> they could move freely? Since the effect depends on the mass of the
> particle, it would be greatly increased.
> 
> 5) Mechanically moving a coulomb of electrons one meter takes less energy
> than electromagnetically moving them. As physical objects they are extremely
> light with very little inertia, as electrical objects they exhibit marked
> resistance to movement. Maybe that's why electrostatic machines keep popping
> up in overunity work.
> 
> All quotes are from:
> "Gyromagnetic and Electron-Inertia Effects" by S.J. Barnett
> Reviews of Modern Physics, V. 7, Apr. 1935
> 
> (I don't have the centrifugal force papers handy)
> 
> Hope this information helps.  Let me know if you want more..
>                         Fred

Hi Fred,

Thanks Fred.  The info is helpful.  What else have you got?  

My source :

  "Handbook of Magnetic Phenomena, 1988, Harry E. Burke, 
  ISBN 0-442-21184-8, Page 165"

goes on to say :
___________

"10.2 Accelerated Conductor.

Consider the circumstance of a conductor moving through field-free space
at a constant velocity.  This movement does not affect any particular
particle within the conductor more than any other particle since all
particles are moving at the same speed.

When a conductor is accelerated, however, a force of acceleration is
applied to each particle that differs in accordance with the mass of
that particle.  In addition, each particle responds to this force within
the constraints of the chemical bonds that help create the material from
which the conductor is fabricated.  As the bonds on conduction electrons
tend to be less restrictive than those on other particles, the force of
electron inertia displaces electrons slightly within the material, and
this displacement establishes a voltage gradient within the conductor as
a result of the force of acceleration.

As conduction electrons see a different enviroment in each type of
conductor, the effect of acceleration sets up a different voltage in
each type of conductor.  If a complete electric circuit is constructed
from two different types of conducting material, a circulating current
will result when this circuit is accelerated because of the difference
voltage generated within the two types of conducting materials".
___________

Seems all we need to do is to construct a high speed rotor with the
differencial voltage generators on the outer edge, rotate it at a very
high rpm (hence high acceleration), squeeze the electrons out, get a
current flow, do some work and without it seems, causing any additional
load on the rotor.  

Is this what your other paper on the extraction of energy from rotating
systems is implying?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 20:51:41 1997
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Tixif@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I would like to know if in a straight conductor, the field is indeed in a
> flat perpendicular plane or if it's possable that it corkscrews or something
> else.  If it is a circular path, could anyone offer an explanation of why
> this is not a monopole.
> 
> Shawn
> Simplicity is beauty in nature and mathmatics!

Hi Shawn,

Its a circular field, not path, with no poles.

If we consider the case of a tube of copper carrying a current.  

There will be a circular flux field (contiguous "B" field) around the
inside and outside of the tube.  This condition can't, to my knowledge,
be duplicated by a magnet.  There is a patent based on this effect. 
Stephan Hartman has referenced it in some of his posts.  Will look it up
in my archives and report back.  Closest thing is a toroid magnet, no
external poles, and hence no usable external field.  Good as a early
generation computer core memory though.  

Anyway back to the wire.  There are no poles in the normal sense.  Poles
don't and can't exist when you have a contiguous "B" field.  Poles (for
the want of a better name) are formed when the tube or wire is bent into
a circle and a solenoid is formed.   

Magnets are solenoid emulators.  IE they function as a coil of wire
carrying current functions, not as a bit of straight wire does.  Again,
to my knowledge, magnets can't produce the contiguous "B" field a wire
carrying current does.

Would love to be proven wrong on this.  It would then be VERY easy to
build a permanent magnet motor using the contiguous "B" field produced. 
Show me a permanent magnet motor and I will show you a contiguous "B"
field in action.

Hope this helps.

Watch out for the time when your son asks "Dad what causes inertia".

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 21:01:56 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:16:08 +0930
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
References: <199703111548.HAA06793@switzerland.it.earthlink.net> <33257F5D.21CF@tiac.net>
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Bob Shannon wrote:
> 
> Whats different about the flux around a conductor (with current flowing)
> and that of a permenent magnet? (shades of Hooper?)
> 
> Any ideas out there?

Hi Bob,

The straight conductor has a contiguous circular field around it and
therefore no poles, while the magnet emulates a solenoid with its
toroidal non contiguous field and poles.

Neither can emulate the other.  IE a straight wire can't produce a
toroidal field and a magnet can't produce a circular contiguous field.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 22:19:42 1997
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From: Michael Randall <mrandall@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hamel Spinning disc NEW DESIGN
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Jean-Louis Naudin

>With this new design it is interesting to notice that hamel disc start to
>spin very fast with high energy, if it is started just at 20mm below the hole
>of the handle magnet. 

Hi Jean-Louis,

Does this version, Hamel Spinning disc ( V3.0), spins faster with higher
energy than your previous versions? What do you estimate the rpm to be? My
version V1.0 doesn't spin automatically in any position. What type of
magnets did you use? Ceramics? Thanks for keeping us posted on your
experiments. Your web site drawings and info helped me out alot.

Best Regards,
Michael Randall 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 22:27:22 1997
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:13:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970312011333_-1539683173@emout07.mail.aol.com>
To: mother@eagle.cc.ukans.edu, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Alien presence in the cosmos: communication
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Somewhat off the topic for this list,  but judging from some of the posts
there seems
to be an interest in the subject, I have over the years developed a proposal
for how
aliens may be *trying* to communicate with us.  It is a serious proposal and
is
technical.  Anyone interested is invited to take a look at:
                             http://members.aol.com/Keasy

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 22:50:21 1997
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From: Michael Randall <mrandall@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
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Jerry Decker wrote,

>Hi Dwayne!
>
>Since you tried the spinner, check out John Bedini's newest duplication 
>of Hamel's 'Butterfly Effect'....it is posted on his website, try 
>
>           http://www.keelynet.com/hamindex.htm

Great website Jerry! Thank you for taking the time to set it up for easy
access to Hamel's work and other researchers experimenting in this, and
other, fields. You brought experimenter's together in this interesting line
of research!

Best Regards,
Michael Randall


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 00:26:36 1997
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Subject: Re: Re : Re: Hamel Spinning disk
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Wesley Crosiar wrote,
>To all: I loaned out my hamel ball/ring combo. Has anyone tried the
>butterfly spinner effect that John Bedini has on his webpage?

Hi Wes,

Yes I built the Magnetic Gate and the rotor as dimensioned. The rotor, had 8
Radio Shack magnets, did not spin but only held stationary. It had to be
handheld level and upon approach of the Gate it locked on. The Gate had
internal north facing magnets and rotor also was north facing. When I fliped
the rotor over for south facing the Gate attracted the rotor but no spin.
The next step in this design would be to place magnets on a base plate
(plexglass) with opposite poles facing the bottom of the rotor magnets, just
Hamel does. But first must get rotor to spin.

Best Regards,
Michael Randall 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 00:43:53 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:16:35 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
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On 11/03/1997 18:28:12, you wrote :

<< hello, does anyone know where I can get plans for this magnetic spinner?
 like full detailed plans.
 
 thanks
 steve
 stevepel@axs2000.net
  >>

Hi Steve,

I have experimented a NEW DESIGN (without Magnetic Gate poles inward) of
Hamel Spinning disc ( V3.0 for me), it use a simple ring ferrite magnet 135
mm outer diam. and 35 mm inner diam. with South pole upward and North pole
DOWNWARD. The Hamel spinning disc is build with a ring magnet (outer diam.70
mm, inner diam. 33 mm, 8 mm thick) sticked on a 67 mm steel ball (490 gr
weight) with south pole UPWARD. This experience must be executed on a hard
and clean surface ( glass is better ).
With this new design it is interesting to notice that hamel disc start to
spin very fast with high energy, if it is started just at 20mm below the hole
of the handle magnet. 

It easy to build and low cost ( 2 simples rings ferrite magnets ).... I can
say today, if it is possible to extract some Free Energy Power (???) with it,
but it is an amazing device, and I like to play with it !!!   :-)

I have put in my web server : all schematics diagrams, pictures, and a 264k
QuickTime video which show in action......

at : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

.....Have FUN !!!      :-)


Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 00:49:17 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:16:47 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com, 76216.2421@compuserve.com,
        gwatson@microtronics.com.au
cc: billb@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com
Subject: THINKING ABOUT HAMEL SPINNER DISC
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On 12/03/1997 01:32:07, you wrote :

<< Suj :	What are the results here ?
 Date :	12/03/1997 01:32:07
 From:	epitaxy@localaccess.com (Epitaxy)
 To:	JNaudin509@aol.com
 
 
 On your WWW page:
 
 http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/hamfix.htm
 
 you describe a novel Hamel spinning disk arrangement.
 
 WHAT ARE THE RESULTS OF THIS ARRANGEMENT ?  DOES IT SPIN ?  Does it wonder
 off from under the PVC/magnet ring ?  Can you leave it untouched for 1
 minute without it stopping ?
 
  >>

Hi Epitaxy,

I give you a copy of the text which is below my web picture :
"
I have built the first test model of Hamel spinner disc, I use 10 ferrite
magnets 25x5x40 mm magnetic poles inward mounted in 10 cm PVC cylinder. For
the spinning device, I use the Levitron on glass sheet ( it it a very
frictionless 28 mm 
ring magnet mounted as a spinning top ). The "magnetic gate" is 50 mm above
the glass sheet with a FIXED appartus. 
The Levitron device is spinning for about 6 minutes aligned on magnetic gate
axis under the "magnetic gate".
"
Unfortunately, ALL THE TESTS of Hamel Spinning disc that I have done, STOP
after few minutes in FIXED position. The Hamel spinning disc is a very
amazing device like a Levitron. It is a very good device to stimulate our
intellect of science hobbyist that we are and can help us to understand more
about unexplored domains in magnetism. 

As far as I am concerned, today, I think that the Hamel Spinning disc is a
magnetic spin top device which uses PARAMETRIC EXCITATION BY HANDS to
maintain its is spin. If you have the correct excitation frequency with YOUR
HANDS you can obtain a VERY HIGH ENERGY SPIN with A LITTLE MOVEMENT OF YOUR
HANDS. The energy induced with YOUR HAND is only to compensate the friction
on the support. This is the reason why the device can run at very high speed
on glass surface ( see my Quicktime video on my web server ). In my video, it
seems that my hand don't move, or have a very little movement Vs the High
spin of the device ( 700 gr with high velocity = High spin momentum ->
PARAMETRIC RESONANCE EFFECT ). We have the same thing in parametric
oscillation in an electronic circuit.
I think that it is possible to explore this effect in conjonction with an
excitation motor or a kind of electromagnetic apparatus......may be ?

To conclude, I think that the Hamel spin disc is a VERY FASCINATING DEVICE
for me like the Levitron and I think that it is worth to be built by anyone
who wants to be excited by the strange effects of magnetism.........

May "The Quest of Overunity" finds its way soon......

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin  ( France / GMT+1 )
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 01:04:13 1997
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Subject: Quicktime Video
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Hi all,

Where on the internet can I get a copy of the program to view "Quicktime
Video" files?

Best Regards,
Michael Randall

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 01:58:24 1997
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From: Teague Family <teague@es.co.nz>
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1. Jean-Louis

Apart from the dimensions, your V3.0 is the same as my setup I described
here a few days ago.

Because I am an intuitive, hands-on _visual_ person, I really appreciate
the pictorial reports on your Web site. A picture is worth a thousand
words!

2. Ben

Something tells me that your conclusion on
http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin/
is not on track. Remember I'm intuitive. 8-)

Experiments here with two magnatron magnets, the centre hole of one
bushed with a nylon insert with a stainless steel shaft (turned to a
=D82mm rounded point) through it, still spun but not very conclusively.
Would your string dragging idea still apply here?

Where to now. I'm off to Christchurch shortly and hope to source some
cupboard catch magnets so as to try John B's butterfly suggestion.

Cheers... Rex

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 02:26:42 1997
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Sent two messages earlier today, one came back but not this one.
Apologies if I am doubling up.

> 1. Jean-Louis
> =

> Apart from the dimensions, your V3.0 is the same as my setup I describe=
d
> here a few days ago.
> =

> Because I am an intuitive, hands-on _visual_ person, I really appreciat=
e
> the pictorial reports on your Web site. A picture is worth a thousand
> words!
> =

> 2. Ben
> =

> Something tells me that your conclusion on
> http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin/
> is not on track. Remember I'm intuitive. 8-)
> =

> Experiments here with two magnatron magnets, the centre hole of one
> bushed with a nylon insert with a stainless steel shaft (turned to a
> =D82mm rounded point) through it, still spun but not very conclusively.=

> Would your string dragging idea still apply here?
> =

> Where to now. I'm off to Christchurch shortly and hope to source some
> cupboard catch magnets so as to try John B's butterfly suggestion.
> =

> Cheers... Rex

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 03:11:06 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:33:02 -0500 (EST)
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<< Suj :	Quicktime Video
 Date :	12/03/1997 04:31:01
 From:	mrandall@earthlink.net (Michael Randall)
 Resent-from:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 Reply-to:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 
 Hi all,
 
 Where on the internet can I get a copy of the program to view "Quicktime
 Video" files?
 
 Best Regards,
 Michael Randall
  >>

You cand download QUICKTIME at : http://quicktime.apple.com/sw/qtwin.html

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin  ( France / GMT+1 )
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 04:08:23 1997
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From: Tixif@aol.com
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Subject: Questions (his, mine and ours)
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I've begun helping my son with a science project and he asked an interesting
question.  He and I had built a molecule of SIO2 (silicon dioxide) for a
previous project, so his familiarity with atomic structure was adequate.  His
current project was to test the conductivity of various materials (In his own
words, "Which substance conducts electricity better?").

In a five minute lesson, my ten year old grasped ohms law and could solve for
unknowns (That's a fifth grader whos current math lessons envolve adding and
subtracting mixed and improper fractions).  OK, enough bragging.

As we talked about a test setup (I had to keep safety in mind in a class full
of kids), we talked about magnetic feilds and coils of wire to produce
electricity - we also covered potential differrence and water falls and the
ability to do work.  He asked what the atomic structure looked like in a
magnetic material.  I was left to explaining about disorganized versus
arranged magnetic domains as follows (in my words):

Non-magnetic material is the unordered arrangement of "tiny" magnetic domains
and their disarray causes the substance to exhibit no external magnetism.
 Along the same line,  magnetized materials are stated to have arranged and
orderly domains where they now assist in exhibiting an external force.

This was adequate for him because of the visual pictures I could provide, but
in keeping with the truth and our next generation OU experimenters, we also
talked about the fact that no-one really knows (In about 8 years he'll be
driving college professors crazy or failing).

I have a basic education in electronics and this reminded me of the empty
feeling when science takes things on faith, much like what drives this group.
 His question, though, led me back to my college text and I began playing
with new questions (to me anyhow), all related to a unified field theory.

The first place I began looking for the connection was in a conductor that
has a field when current is passed.  In my review, I found the following
summary:

1. The magnetic lines are circular, as the field is symmetrical with respect
to the wire in the center.
2.  The magnetic field with circular lines of force is in a plane
perpendicular to the current in the wire.

A brief note here;  The accompanying figures showed a compass needle
deflecting in the rotation of the field.  This would appear to represent a
monopole to me or even no pole at all.  With regaurds to the Hamel Disk, the
question was posed, what is the differrence between the field around a
current and that of a permanent magnet.

I would like to know if in a straight conductor, the field is indeed in a
flat perpendicular plane or if it's possable that it corkscrews or something
else.  If it is a circular path, could anyone offer an explanation of why
this is not a monopole.

Shawn
Simplicity is beauty in nature and mathmatics!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 06:00:39 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 01:43:00 +1100
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Subject: Re: Quicktime Video
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At 12:52 AM 3/12/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Where on the internet can I get a copy of the program to view "Quicktime
>Video" files?
>
>Best Regards,
>Michael Randall
>
>You might like to  http://www.cnet.com   or it could be just plain
http://cnet.com
and the use their download site   and write in the  Quicktime  this may
lead you to a place you can down a file.

>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ 
you should be able find the correct
cnet internet address either under helpful sites or search engine listings
on my web site. I not sure which one it is I just can't remember but ith there.
Geoff

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 08:06:21 1997
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Message-ID: <3326883F.3D59@tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:41:03 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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Tixif@aol.com wrote:

<snip> 

> I would like to know if in a straight conductor, the field is indeed in a
> flat perpendicular plane or if it's possable that it corkscrews or something
> else.  If it is a circular path, could anyone offer an explanation of why
> this is not a monopole.

The field around a counductor is a 'flat perpendicular plane', but only
in terms of field intensity.  This says noting about a possible
corkscrew-like geometery along the lenght of the conductor.

The flat plane description only describes the 'lines of force' in that
plane, and does not restrict the geometery of the field along the axis
of the conductor in any way, so long as the flux density falls off to
the square of the distance as we move outward (in the plane) from the
conductor.

Why is there no apparent pole?

Simply becuase this field (in any given perpendicular plane) is bent
into a complete circle, there are no external pole faces.  It is similar
to a bar magnet bent into a circle, the pole faces disappear as the
magnetic circuit is completed.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 08:12:00 1997
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From: Michael C Slivinski <sunbrite@mymail.net>
Subject: Re: source for many share/freeware programs and trial programs
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For great lisitngs or downloads for freeware/shareware take look see
on this  url web site.
for pc and mach os platforms.

TUCOWS   http://www.texoma.com/mirror/tucows/window95.html

AND http://www.texoma.com/mirror/tucows/

HERE IS A LIST/TABLE OF AREAS EACH CONTAINING SEVERAL PROGRAMS.
>chart/table is the following:
>Anti-Virus Scanners
>Archie
>Audio Applications
>Browsers
>Browser ActiveX Plug-Ins
>Browser Add Ons
>Browser Plug-Ins
>Browser SearchBots
>Bundled Applications 
>Compression Utilities >Control Panels
>Diagnostic Tools >DNS Lookup Tools
>E-mail Applications
>Entertainment & Games
>FTP >Finger Applications
>Gopher
>HTML Accessories  >HTML Editors - Beginner  >HTML Editors - Other >HTML
Editors - Text
>HTML Editors - Toolbar >HTML Editors - WYSIWYG
>Image Viewers >Internet Tools >IP Posters
>Java Applications
>Log Analyzers
>Modem Dialer & Utilities >Movie Viewers
>Network File Sharing >Networking (TCP/IP) >News Readers (UseNet) >News
Services (Online)
>Ping Applications
>Security Applications >Server Daemons >Shell Enhancements >Stock Quotes
>Televideo Conferencing >Telnet >Text Chat (IRC) >Time Logs >Time
Synchronizers >TUCOWS Specific
>Utilities
>Voice Chat >VRML Viewers
>Weather Applications

ENJOY, MIKE SLIVINSKI



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 09:16:11 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 11:29:26 +0000
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Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
References: <199703111548.HAA06793@switzerland.it.earthlink.net> <33257F5D.21CF@tiac.net> <33264320.7A78@microtronics.com.au>
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Greg Watson wrote:
> 
> Bob Shannon wrote:
> >
> > Whats different about the flux around a conductor (with current flowing)
> > and that of a permenent magnet? (shades of Hooper?)
> >
> > Any ideas out there?
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> The straight conductor has a contiguous circular field around it and
> therefore no poles, while the magnet emulates a solenoid with its
> toroidal non contiguous field and poles.
> 
> Neither can emulate the other.  IE a straight wire can't produce a
> toroidal field and a magnet can't produce a circular contiguous field.

True enough, but this does not appear to address the specific, and
significant difference in behavior (superposition) of the magnetic
fields.

Why will the closed magnetic field around a conductor undergo vector
superposition when that of a macropole simply will not? (when the flux
simply distorts)

If we look at the field of a conductor, and then wind that conductor
into a coil, we find that the closed, pole-less loops join together to
form the macropole of a soliniod.

If we wind the conductor into a bifilar coil, something quite different
happens, the loops join, and nearly disappear.  The resultant coil will
not store energy as does a standard coil.  But we cannot see this same
effect with the poles of whole soliniods or magnets.  Why not?  We have
the same 'impendence' discontinuities as before, yet the behavior is
different.

What specific condition of the space around each conductor (in the
bifiliar coil) prevents the storage of energy, and why cannot this
condition be cuased by macropoles?

You have given an example of the differance between these conditions,
but we have not yet touched on why there is a difference.

A digression:

"Psudo-poles" can be created in a magnetic circuit by a magnetic
'impendence' discontinuity, just as the poles of a permanent magnet are
formed when we run out of magnet, and force the field through free
space.  A ring of magnetized material with a small section of material
with a differing reluctance in the ring will produce something that sure
looks like poles, but if the ring is of the same material (of whatever
reluctance) these "psudo-poles" dissappear.

In this case, the "pusdo-poles" might appear to be the magnetized
material, rather than the rest of the ring.  Without taking the ring
apart, how do we know for sure what portion is actually magnetized?

So the 'poles' might be described as an effect produced by the flux
flowing through a discontinuity of magnetic impedence (reluctance),
rather than being associated with the flux itself, or it's 'source'.

But in a soliniod coil, and in a bifilar coil, we have the same magnetic
impedence discontinuities, so this does not appear to describe the
differences in behavior!

This almost suggests that the difference in behavior of 'magnetic flux'
is due to an internal substructure whish results from the superposition
between the windings, and that this substructure is preserved throughout
the whole flux path, and may be related to the curl of the field.

What is the conventional wisdom on this matter?  Is all flux created
equal?  Is seems that this is not the case, as we clearly have different
behaviors under differing conditions.  The question is why is this so. 
What is it in the flux itself that controls it's differing behavior in
these cases?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 12:56:04 1997
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Date: 12 Mar 97 15:30:59 EST
From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@compuserve.com>
To: list owner <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: KEELYNET BBS
Message-ID: <970312203058_103510.1772_IHL80-1@CompuServe.COM>
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Dear Jerry,
Is your Keelynet BBS still up? Am having difficulty connecting! If not, do you
have
an updated diskette/s that can be purchased with all files on them?
(.zipped would be good!)

Thanks,
Glenn Hinton

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 13:07:37 1997
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From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves)
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Subject: Magnetic Resonance Amplifier
Date: 11 Mar 1997 23:24:57 GMT
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So where do I get a "Barium Titanite" (or Titanate) transducer, also referred
to as a capacitor with  a dielectric of "Titanium dioxide"  and/or "Titanium
zirconate". There isn't one in my regular components catalogue! Do I have to
make it or is this a specialist part peculiar to some branch of electronics?
Alternatively where do I email Joel McClain or Norman Wootan? 
Has anyone here experimented with the MRA; perhaps it's been and gone before
I arrived?

Thanks for any pointers, Geoff Greaves
----------------------------------------
>From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
----------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 13:48:20 1997
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-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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Message-ID: <33272B3D.3EAB@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:46:29 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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To: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber@worldnet.att.net>
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Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
> You just re-invented the "wheel" Greg. <g> I saw such a device in the literature
> many years ago. Also it was done with a "disc" filled with an electrolyte.
> Then someone put a magnetic field thru the disc (Faraday I think) and came
> up with the homopolar generator.
> 
> Los Alamos Labs hauled a 750-1000 Ton Homopolar generator up to the "Hill"
> about ten years ago. It was an engineering feat that rivaled Stonehenge. <g>
> 
> Regards,    Frederick

Hi Fredrick,

I am quite aware of the homopolar generator, as I have built several.  I
am also quite aware of the enegry flows as the current induced field in
the disk reacts with the magnets field.  However, the Tolman effect
looks different.

Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
rpm.  Close to the outer edge is a conductive ring.  The ring is
connected to one side of a elecrical load and the other side of the load
connected to the centre of the disk.  The ring will act as one side of a
capacitor, with the outer surface of the disk, the other.

As the disk rotates, excess electrons will collect on the disk's outer
surface and cause an electrical charge to be formed in the space between
the ring and the disks outer surface.

Connecting an electrical load from the ring to the centre of the
spinning disk will then allow electrons to flow.  This current flow in
the disk will generate a magnetic field, but this field will not
interact with another to cause a back drag.  It would seem that if the
disk rotated on magnetic bearings, in a sealed container with no air,
the only continual input of energy would be that required to accelerate
the electrons to the velocity of the outer edge of the disk.

Believe that would require less energy than that produced by the current
flow.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


--------------47C7CE6453--


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 13:59:26 1997
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Geoff Greaves wrote:
> 
> So where do I get a "Barium Titanite" (or Titanate) transducer, also referred
> to as a capacitor with  a dielectric of "Titanium dioxide"  and/or "Titanium
> zirconate". There isn't one in my regular components catalogue! Do I have to
> make it or is this a specialist part peculiar to some branch of electronics?
> Alternatively where do I email Joel McClain or Norman Wootan?
> Has anyone here experimented with the MRA; perhaps it's been and gone before
> I arrived?
> 
> Thanks for any pointers, Geoff Greaves
> ----------------------------------------
> >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
> ----------------------------------------

"Been and gone" is exactly right.

If you research the history of the MRA, you will quickly learn that the
MRA is not over unity, and in fact is well below unity.

The problem was that the phase angle between current and voltage had not
been properly accounted for (or accounted for at all) in calculations of
the delivered energy.

In private conversations with Joel McClain prior to the public release
of the MRA, these issues, as well as that of the duty cycle of the
initial (pre MRA) protptypes were discussed in great detail.

At that time, Joel did claim to understand the AC power factor (phase
between current and voltage) issues, as well as that of the output
waveforms duty cycle, which alone made the intial prototypes well under
unity, even if the current and voltage had been in phase.

How things progressed from that point, to the release of the design and
claims of over unity operation is anyones guess.

I suggest that you review the history before you invest any significant
time or money duplicating the MRA design.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 14:04:45 1997
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Greg Watson wrote:
 
> Hi Fredrick,
> 
> I am quite aware of the homopolar generator, as I have built several.  I
> am also quite aware of the enegry flows as the current induced field in
> the disk reacts with the magnets field.  However, the Tolman effect
> looks different.
> 
> Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> rpm.  Close to the outer edge is a conductive ring.  The ring is
> connected to one side of a elecrical load and the other side of the load
> connected to the centre of the disk.  The ring will act as one side of a
> capacitor, with the outer surface of the disk, the other.
> 
> As the disk rotates, excess electrons will collect on the disk's outer
> surface and cause an electrical charge to be formed in the space between
> the ring and the disks outer surface.
> 
> Connecting an electrical load from the ring to the centre of the
> spinning disk will then allow electrons to flow.  This current flow in
> the disk will generate a magnetic field, but this field will not
> interact with another to cause a back drag.  It would seem that if the
> disk rotated on magnetic bearings, in a sealed container with no air,
> the only continual input of energy would be that required to accelerate
> the electrons to the velocity of the outer edge of the disk.

<snip>

>From what I have read, this effect only happens during acceleration or
deceleration, but not if the disk is in uniform rotation.  You would
ahve to start and stop the disk abruptly to use the Tolman effect.

Is this correct?  If so, the design above may not work at all.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 14:10:59 1997
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where can I get the non-magnetic ball

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 16:14:25 1997
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Bob Shannon wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> 
> > Hi Fredrick,
> >
> > I am quite aware of the homopolar generator, as I have built several.  I
> > am also quite aware of the enegry flows as the current induced field in
> > the disk reacts with the magnets field.  However, the Tolman effect
> > looks different.
> >
> > Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> > rpm.  Close to the outer edge is a conductive ring.  The ring is
> > connected to one side of a elecrical load and the other side of the load
> > connected to the centre of the disk.  The ring will act as one side of a
> > capacitor, with the outer surface of the disk, the other.
> >
> > As the disk rotates, excess electrons will collect on the disk's outer
> > surface and cause an electrical charge to be formed in the space between
> > the ring and the disks outer surface.
> >
> > Connecting an electrical load from the ring to the centre of the
> > spinning disk will then allow electrons to flow.  This current flow in
> > the disk will generate a magnetic field, but this field will not
> > interact with another to cause a back drag.  It would seem that if the
> > disk rotated on magnetic bearings, in a sealed container with no air,
> > the only continual input of energy would be that required to accelerate
> > the electrons to the velocity of the outer edge of the disk.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >From what I have read, this effect only happens during acceleration or
> deceleration, but not if the disk is in uniform rotation.  You would
> ahve to start and stop the disk abruptly to use the Tolman effect.
> 
> Is this correct?  If so, the design above may not work at all.

Hi Bob,

The outer edge of the disk will be experiencing an acceleration of
3.14e8 cm/sec^2 or 320,000 g's.  Should be enough for the Tolman effect
to drag electrons from the centre of the disk to the outer edge.  Would
probably tear the disk apart as well, but what the heck, that's an
engineering problem.  Maybe a smaller disk, rotating at a slower speed
would make a better model.  Anyone know the max acceleration copper can
stand before it starts to fail?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 16:17:51 1997
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Barry Merriman wrote:
> 
> To put things in perspective: The theory of electromagnetism
> is a conservative one. That theory is fully adequate to
> predict and describe a Tolman effect, and this effect
> would in no way be able to be "over unity" in that theory.
> (In fact, the article motivating the above comment was a theoretical
> discussion using classical ideas of how EM works.)

Where did I say that the Tolman effect device I proposed would relate to
EM?  This is NOT a homopolar generator.  There are NO magnetic field
interactions involved in the generation of the current flow.  While the
current flow would produce a magnetic field, magnetic field and
conductor interactions are not the source of the current flow.  I
suggest you read my post fully before you jump in too quickly.

> Thus, there is no reason to think a Tolman effect driven circuit
> should lie outside the domain of standard, conservative
> (non-overunity) electromagnetism. Obviously it is an experimental
> question as to whether this prediction is true in our physical
> universe, by my point point is that there is absolutely no
> reason to think O/U would manifest itself in a Tolman circuit,
> vs, say, a standard circuit with a battery and a resistor
> in it. In fact, if it were 75 years ago, I'm sure you would
> be suggesting that a circuit with a capacitor and and
> inductor in it might be over unity, because it does this
> really cool thing where it oscillates and makes EM waves and
> other things that, to you personally, seem novel. But within
> EM theory, they are merely another manifestation of the
> general, conservative, phenomena.

Just because I don't have a PHD doesn't mean that I can't think.  You
seem to enjoy putting people down.  Sorry Barry, I don't have any public
sex scandals for you to dig up.  I don't appreciate your sarcism or
closed mind.  How about instead of trying to make me seem simple, you
spend some of your superior brain power on looking at the energy flows
in this proposal.

> I really don't think people looking for "O/U" effects in classical
> electromagnetic configurations appreciate the logical incongruity
> of what they are doing....using a conservative theory to guide
> you to a non-conservative experiment is no better than having
> a computer program that randomly generates experimental designs.

Can you explain current drop in the Rod & Coil experiment?

> The theory is presenting you with a zillion possible
> experimental configurations, all of which have exactly the
> same energy efficiency: 100%. So what criteria, tell me,
> are you using to decide which ones are most interesting from
> an O/U point of view?

Hi Barry,

Have you studied, or even read, the 12 points of operational
characteristics in my DNMEC generator post of last week?  Can you tell
me, being the simple fool I am, where I have gone wrong?  Please Barry,
show me where I am wrong.  Put me out of my misery.  Or better still put
me in my place.  Or even better still, open up your mind.  Think outside
of the square.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 17:30:07 1997
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-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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Message-ID: <332761BD.24C8@microtronics.com.au>
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From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> (snip)
> > Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> > rpm.
> 
> This will never happen, Greg.  V = r x omega, so your "rim" velocity
> would be 3140 meters/second.  The strongest of metals are limited to
> wheels with a tangential velocity of about 500 to 600 meters per second.

Sounds good to me.

> (Ref. Scott Little).
> 
> I think the equation you want is:
> 
>         volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)

As the Tolman effect is caused by acceleration,
shouldn't we use acceleration here?                    2e7 m/sec^2

> Now, m/e for the electron is about 5.68 x 10^-12 kg/coulomb, and, if
> you could get 3140 meters/sec for V, your voltage would be:
> 
>         volts = .5 x 5.68 x 10^-10 x 3140^2 = 28 x 10^-6 volts.

Shouldn't it be                                 28 x 10^-4 volts.

> But, you could really only get about (500/3140)^2 of the above, or
> about 0.71 microvolts.  Now, any electrical work you got out you would
> have to put in to "sling" the mass of the electrons up to rim speed!
> After all, you're getting the volts from the inertia of the electrons
> and, in this generator, they will act just like the water in a
> centrifugal pump - no free lunch.
> 
> But, don't despair - the fact that this concept gives any voltage at
> all makes me proud to be a mechanical engineer!  It's a GAS!
> 
> Frank Stenger

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


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Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
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Message-ID: <33275989.5803@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:04:01 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
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To: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
References: <19970313001605.AAA14344@LOCALNAME>
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Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
> At 12:49 AM 3/13/97 +0000, Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> >Hi Frederick,
> >
> >I got 320,000 g's.  Still, way over the top.
> >
> Your copper wheel, "one meter diameter and 0.1 meter thick turning at 60,000
> rpm."
> 
> Multiples of "g" = 1.42E-5 * D*N^2 = 0.75 * (V^2/D)
> 
> Where D is the diameter in inches, N is rpm, V is peripheral speed ft/sec.
> 
> Thus for a one meter dia.: 1.42E-5 * 39.37" * 60,000^2 = 2,000,000 g's at
> nearly 10,000 ft/sec (3.1415 km/sec) you are at 2/7 of earth escape
> velocity. <G>
> 
> Best Regards,    Frederick

Hi Frederick,

You are right, I slipped a digit or something on my calculator.

I work in KMS systems.  I first of all calculated centriputal force
using :

f = mv^2/r.

Where f = Newtons,
      m = 1kg (on the outer edge),
      v = 3.1416e3 m/sec
      r = 0.5 m

Result is 19.7e7 Newtons or a centriputal force of 1,979,000 kgs.  As I
started with 1kg mass on the edge, I assumed an apparent acceleration of
1,979,000 g's.  Seems we now agree.  Well, at least on the maths.  Me
thinks me should use a somewhat smaller model.

Thanks for the math lesson.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile



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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:39:48 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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Message-ID: <33275B2B.4959@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:10:59 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
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To: fstenger@interlaced.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
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Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> (snip)
> > Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> > rpm.
> 
> This will never happen, Greg.  V = r x omega, so your "rim" velocity
> would be 3140 meters/second.  The strongest of metals are limited to
> wheels with a tangential velocity of about 500 to 600 meters per second.
> (Ref. Scott Little).
> 
> I think the equation you want is:
> 
>         volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)
> 
> Now, m/e for the electron is about 5.68 x 10^-12 kg/coulomb, and, if
> you could get 3140 meters/sec for V, your voltage would be:
> 
>         volts = .5 x 5.68 x 10^-10 x 3140^2 = 28 x 10^-6 volts.
> 
> But, you could really only get about (500/3140)^2 of the above, or
> about 0.71 microvolts.  Now, any electrical work you got out you would
> have to put in to "sling" the mass of the electrons up to rim speed!
> After all, you're getting the volts from the inertia of the electrons
> and, in this generator, they will act just like the water in a
> centrifugal pump - no free lunch.
> 
> But, don't despair - the fact that this concept gives any voltage at
> all makes me proud to be a mechanical engineer!  It's a GAS!
> 
> Frank Stenger

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the info, but its not rim velocity that drives the electrons,
its acceleration.  In the config I suggested this is about 2,000,000
g's.  Think the voltage generated will be greater than you show.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile



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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:14:31 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect and DNMEC
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Scott Little wrote:
> 
> At 19:03 3/12/97 -0500, Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> > The strongest of metals are limited to
> >wheels with a tangential velocity of about 500 to 600 meters per second.
> >(Ref. Scott Little).
> 
> yeah...that's if you wanted to stand next to it.  could go maybe 1.5X higher
> before breaking.
> 
> >I think the equation you want is:
> >
> >       volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)
> 
> I'm impressed Frank, I thought you had this wrong for a minute but then I
> realized that force per unit charge is the effective electric electric field
> strength...which has to be integrated from 0 to r to get the total voltage.
> I did so (letting MathCAD do all the work) and got precisely the same answer
> you did....28.06 microvolts!
> 
> Mechanical Engineers Rule!
> 
> P.S. I agree that, if you let electrons flow out the rim, through a
> resistor, and back into the center of such a disk you'd have to drive the
> disk to make up for the angular momentum "consumed" by the continual flow of
> mass from center to rim.
> 
> As Barry has said several times, there's no fruit at the end of a search
> through classical mechanics or electromagnetics for excess energy.  If you
> think you've found it in there, you've made a mistake.  If you have a
> computer that tells you its there, then the computer has made a mistake.
> 
> Our main hope lies in examining experimental results which do not fit the
> predicitions of classical mechanics...and in "new" theories.

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the input.  Your and Frank's comments are what I would expect
of you Vortexians although I find the predicted EMF generated to be much
smaller than I would have expected.

As for new theories, please comment on the 12 points of operational
characteristics of my DNMEC generator operation.  I do see a real
reduction in current drawn by the driving motor as I short the output
coil.  I ask for your and other's input as to wheather my theory of what
is happening is valid.

I have included the post I sent some time ago.

Hi All,

I have been asked by many people to re-explain the DNMEC effect.

Will here goes.

The DNMEC generator I am working on is a modification of a flux gate
design where you have a magnetic circuit comprising of a magnet, coil,
air gap, moving ferromagnetic flux gate and ferromagnetic material
linking in all together in a "C" shape as below :


              |---------------------------------------|
          >---|  Rotating Drive Shaft (Non FerroMag)  |---< Axis of
rotation
              |---------------------------------------|
                             |        |
                             |        |  < Connecting Arm (Non Ferro)
                             |        |
                  |------------------------------|
                  |   FerroMagnetic Flux Gate    |
                  |                              |
                  |---------|          |---------|
                            |          |
                  |--------||----------|
|-----------------|        |            |--------|---------------|
|                 |        |            | Neo Dym|               |
|                 | Coil   |  Air Gap   | Magnet |               |
|       |---------|        |            |--------|-------|       |
|       |         |--------|                             |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |------------------------------------------------|       |
|                                                                |
|           Ferromagnetic Core Material                          |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|

A functional description follows:

1) As the flux gate rotates toward the air gap, flux density in the
core increases due to the approaching flux gate reducing the reluctance
(magnetic resistance) of the air gap.

2) As the core flux is changing, an emf will be induced in the coil.

3) As the coil is shorted, the induced emf will produce a current flow.

4) The coil's current flow will produce a magnetic field in the coil
which will oppose the increasing coil and core flux.

5) Due to the position of the magnet and coil adjacent to the air gap,
the opposing coil flux will increase the flux density outside of
the air gap in the region occupied by the flux gate.  This is one
of the new effects necessary of the DNMEC effect to work.  It is easily
proven.

6) As the ferrite flux gate is outside of the air gap and its
ferromagnetic force of attraction is related to the flux density,
the flux gate will experience increased attraction into the air
gap.  This is only easily proven.

7) In all other flux gate designs known to me, the flux gate
will, at this point, experience reduced attraction due to the
mmf sources (coil and magnet) being buried (not adjacent to the
air gap) and air gap flux density reducing.

8) The increased attraction will be sensed by the drive motor as a
reduction in necessary drive torque and hence a reduction in drive 
motor current.

9) It is my observing drive motor current that I am attempting
to design a simple to build unit which will produce in excess of
a 10% reduction in drive current.  This design will be available to
any and all.

10) In my current designs, if the flux gate enters the air gap, the
effect dies and turns into a normal non OU flux gate generator.

11) In my opinion, the extra energy sources are the stiff aligned
domains in the Neo Dym Magnet and the soft aligned domains in the
moving flux gate.

I have verified each of the above steps (except 11) through other
testing, some of which I have posted here.  I can re-post any of
the Gifs which show each of the steps happening.

My testing to date has produced a 2-3% reduction in drive current and
my latest unit (the fifth) should produce at least 10-15%.

I invite all to critique the above on any basis you choose, just
don't reject it as rubbish without a fair hearing.  Give it a fair go!

All I ask for is your open mind.

Remember,  "None of us is as smart as ALL of us".

Good thinking.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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--------------44754C593F7E--


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 18:23:33 1997
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Message-ID: <33277DF3.13D1@keelynet.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:09:23 -0800
From: Jerry Decker <jdecker@keelynet.com>
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hamel's Gravito Magnetic Device/Spinner
References: <199703120638.WAA26559@iberia.it.earthlink.net>
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Hi Michael!  

Thanks for the compliment....I think we all recognize that if we don't 
get off our butts and network, build and share, we'll die just like 
everyone else, never having seen any of this fantasy stuff made real.

The instigator of Hamel was of course Pierre Sinclair and John Bedini got 
the ball rolling when he posted his initial attempt followed by the 
fluxgate version of the very hard to find ring magnet that Hamel is shown 
holding....so John is our catalyst...<g>....
-- 
               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 18:43:06 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:23:56 +0930
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CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
References: <33272D2F.4018@microtronics.com.au> <33274444.72F6@interlaced.net> <33275B2B.4959@microtronics.com.au> <33275B3D.5D68@interlaced.net>
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Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> (snip)
> Frank gave the equation:
> 
> > >         volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)
> > >
> 
> > Thanks for the info, but its not rim velocity that drives the electrons,
> > its acceleration.  In the config I suggested this is about 2,000,000
> > g's.  Think the voltage generated will be greater than you show.
> >
> Greg, you are correct - it is the centrifugal acceleration that does
> the job.  Designers that work with rotating "wheels" at high speed often
> use tangential velocity as a rotational parameter because the maximum
> "rim" speed of, say, a flywheel, is a direct function of the allowable
> stress in the wheel material - using rim speed is only a convienence.
> If you tell me that you want to rotate a metal wheel at 60,000 rpm, I
> say OK, thats 6280 radians/second.  I know that radius x rad/sec is
> limited to about 600 meters/sec (a rim speed), so I divide 600 m/s
> by 6280 /s and get 0.0955 meters or 9.55 cm as the maximum radius you
> can use for your wheel.
> 
> As for my equation above, I can write V as r x omega, or, I can write
> V^2 as r x (r x omega^2).
> 
> So, the equation becomes:
> 
>         volts = 0.5 x (m/e) x r x (r x omega^2).
> 
> But, (r x omega^2) IS the centrifugal acceleration of the rim - so the
> equation is about acceleration.
> 
> Greg, this is not MY equation - I got it from a good old ref. that
> discusses the Tolman effect in detail!  It's friendly fire!  the effect
> is there!  It's just not very big, thats all.  After all, a coulomb
> of electrons only has mass of 5.68 x 10^-12 kilograms!
> 
> Frank Stenger

Hi Frank,

Thanks for being my mentor on this.  I am an electronics engineer with a
lot of real world, dirty fingernail experience in magnetics.  The Tolman
effect is not my field.  Just thought it was an interesting effect to
discuss.  

What's your comment on the 12 points of the DNMEC operational
characteristics?  The drive motor current reduction when the output coil
is shorted is real.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 19:38:22 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 22:19:47 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
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Greg Watson wrote:

<snip>

> The outer edge of the disk will be experiencing an acceleration of
> 3.14e8 cm/sec^2 or 320,000 g's.  Should be enough for the Tolman effect
> to drag electrons from the centre of the disk to the outer edge.  Would
> probably tear the disk apart as well, but what the heck, that's an
> engineering problem.  Maybe a smaller disk, rotating at a slower speed
> would make a better model.  Anyone know the max acceleration copper can
> stand before it starts to fail?

Copper is very ductile, and would squish like warm peanut-butter at that
speed, but what the heck, somebody has to see just how far you can go
first, right?  I mean, how else can we really know just how much we can
get away with!

(a dedicated test engineer!)   ;-)

>From reading Fred Epps post, I got:

> 3) Acceleration generates the force, not velocity: (dV/dt). So extremely
> abrupt back and forth acceleration of the disc would be more effective than
> steady unidirectional acceleration. (And would produce AC power).

So is uniform rotation constant rotational velocity (dV/dt) = 0 in the
case you describe, or is the 320,000 g figure right here?

But, if we really need a change in velocity (dV/dt), and we are not too
fond of the high rotational speeds, and huge input energies needed to
accelerate the counuctor, would it make any sense to apply a rotating
field to a fixed conductor and accelerate that rotational field with a
simple increase in the frequancy of the quatrature waves used to produce
that rotating field?

If so, think what we might do with a superconducting disk, a sweep
frequancy generator, a phase shifter and a pair of hemholtz coils!

Nahhhh, that's just too easy.  It couldn't be that easy.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 22:47:43 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 22:21:19 -0800 (PST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Michael Randall <mrandall@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: hamel spinner v3.0?/???/
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Steve Pelet wrote:
>where can I get the non-magnetic ball
>
Hi Steve,

In Jean-Louis Naudin's, Hamel Spinner V3.0 design he used a > 2.5" steel
ball (see http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm). Ben Tammetta in his
design used a non-magnetic ball, the track ball from a mouse (see
http://oscar.clubelite.com/spin). I am planning to build Jean-Louis's V3.0
unit. Let me know if you need any parts suppliers telephone numbers.

Best Regards,
Michael Randall

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 23:55:40 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:41:23 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, Barry Merriman <barry@math.ucla.edu>
CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC mark 4
References: <970312080534_100060.173_JHB102-1@CompuServe.COM> <33272CEC.15FB7483@math.ucla.edu> <332749A7.32DF@microtronics.com.au> <33279C6E.1CFBAE39@math.ucla.edu>
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Barry Merriman wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> 
> > Have you studied, or even read, the 12 points of operational
> > characteristics in my DNMEC generator post of last week?
> 
> Yes, I read them. Unfortunately, I don;t really get the
> point of what you are trying to do. So you claim to
> have found a 1-2% reduction in torque under some
> conditions. I'm a bit dense, you'll
> need to tell me what you plan to do with this.

Hi Barry,

Many variations of flux gate generators have been around for years, some
have even claimed OU operation.  Being involved in designing switchmode
power supplies, I have always been interested in ferromagnetic systems
and the characteristics of soft ferrites.  

I investigated several flux gate design in detail and came to a very
good understanding of the electromagnetic physics behind the
functionality they displayed.  I also came to understand why they could
never go OU.  This data I shared with the freenrg group as we discussed
various existing designs and I expalined in length why they are not OU
devices.  

I then put together a model of a OU flux gate generator from the view
point of the operational charateristics one would observe if such a
beast existed.

One of the main problems in flux gate generators is the fact that as the
flux gate approaches the air gap and system flux density increases, the
coil generated opposing flux reduces the force of ferromagnetic
attraction into the gap and increases in on the way out.  Nothing new
here, just most of the flux gate OU fans didn't understand this.

For a flux gate generator to go OU one would need the force of
ferromagnetic attraction to increase as the flux gate enters the air gap
and reduce as it leaves.  Therefore driving torque would reduce.  If one
could get the sum of the increased entering attraction and the reduced
leaving attraction to overcome the frictional losses in the driving
system, the generator would self power.  From that point on, it would
generate usable electrical and rotary energy.

In most other flux gate designs, the MMF sources (magnet & coil) are
buried.  By this I mean that they are not adjacent to the air gap and
are connected to the air gap by ferromagnetic material.  This
ferromagnetic material with its soft domain alignments affects the flux
chracteristics in the necessary air gap.  

Under the buried config, air gap flux density will reduce in response to
a opposing coil flux caused by the system flux density going up as the
flux gate approaches the air gap (reducing reluctance in the gap).  This
reducing air gap flux density is what causes the ferromagnetic force of
attraction in normal flux gate systems to reduce as the flux gate enters
the gap and current is flowing in the output coil.  Its expalins why
they can't go OU.  Here mother nature wins.

In the DNMEC config, the MMF sources (magnet & coil) are located
adjacent to the air gap.  This location is vital to get the DNMEC effect
to work.  As the flux gate now again approaches the air gap, gap
reluctance falls and system flux rises.  The coil produces an opposing
flux against this rising flux.  Unlike the buried config where gsp flux
falls, it now increases (well not in the gap, but just outside of it)
and as the flux gate ferrite is in the position of increased flux
density, it experiences increased atrraction into the gap and reduced
attraction out of the gap.  Motor torque drops and so to does motor
current.

This effect (increased flux density on opposing flux fields) only exists
outside the air gap between the poles of the MMF sources (I have
verified this via QField and actual testing).  If the flux gate is
allowed to enter the gap, the effect dies.  This is another reason why
existing flux gate designs don't go OU.  As the effect only seems to
occur outside the gap, gap reluctance variations are small as opposed to
allowing the flux gate to fully go into the gap.  The resulting coil
induced EMF swings are also small and helps to explain why the current
reduction I see are noisy and small.

I have been able to produce a 2-3% reduction (down 4-6ma on a 250 ma
load), but it is still noisy and bounces around.  I have almost finished
building my fifth model, which I have designed to reduce frictional
losses as much as possible, to lift the signal to noise ratio of the
test system.

I am asking for your and other's input to check my thinking process.  I
have been wrong before and will be again.  The effect looks real, I
think I understand what is going on and why.  I know you and others
don't believe magnetic based OU is possible.  This may seem strange, but
so do I.

Its the shivers running up and down my back as I short the output coil
and watch the drive motor currenr fall that keeps me at this.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 00:29:16 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:43:08 +0930
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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Subject: Forget Hamel's Spinner, Try This
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Hi All,

Forget Hamel's Spinner.  Check out Patent 4,443,776, David Cunningham,
Rotary Magnet Device.  It's a permanent magnet motor that looks like it
should work.  It produces a contiguous "B" field using permanent magnets
(something I thought, until today, wasn't possible).  It even claims to
rotate in the claim section.  Construction is simple, but not easy to
quickly duplicate.  Lets see who can duplicate it first.

Comments?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 00:50:03 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 03:28:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970313032825_-1973863891@emout07.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : hamel spinner v3.0 VIDEO
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<< Suj :	hamel spinner v3.0?/???/
 Date :	12/03/1997 17:07:10
 From:	stevepel@axs2000.net (steve pelet)
 Resent-from:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 Reply-to:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
 
 where can I get the non-magnetic ball
  >>

You can use a "petanque ball", it is heavy (500 gr) and made of aliminium
alloy and you can by it in a sport shop.

Truly,

Jean-Louis

For your Information : I have converted the QuickTime Movie to AVI ( video
for windows of Hamel demo version 3). I have put this in my web at :
http://members.aol.com/overunity/images/hmspn2mv.avi

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 06:03:00 1997
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:57:55
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <clf@startext.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: WHAT TYPES OF RADIANT ENERGY WAS CREATED BY THE FIRST
  ATOMIC BOMB?
In-Reply-To: <199703112123.QAA18291@w3.bluegrass.net>
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At 04:22 PM 3/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>----------
>> From: Sam Gordon <lance@bluegrass.net>
>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>> Subject: WHAT TYPES OF RADIANT ENERGY WAS CREATED BY THE FIRST ATOMIC
>BOMB?
>> Date: Monday, March 10, 1997 10:23 AM
>> 
>>      What types of energy created by the first atomic explosions could
>have
>> escaped the 
>> Earth and traveled out into space? If these energies are in wave form
>could
>> one determine the frequency, if so how? Could the explosion cause the
>area
>> to vibrate causing the crystaline structures in the rock to produce RF
>that
>> could travel into space? And of course is it possible to determine this
>> frequency?
>>  
>>  
>> Thanks
>> Sam G.
>
KABOOM:

The EM content of the trinity explosion was spectrally complete [EM flood]
from about 4Hz all the way to the high X ray range the duration is a
suprisingly long 230 mS

this info is for memory I don't remember whare I read it.

Charlie Ford


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 06:51:02 1997
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From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus@spectre.mitre.org>
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <332749A7.32DF@microtronics.com.au> (message from Greg Watson on Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:56:15 +0930)
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   Greg Watson (gwatson@microtronics.com.au) said:

  > Have you studied, or even read, the 12 points of operational
  > characteristics in my DNMEC generator post of last week?  Can you tell
  > me, being the simple fool I am, where I have gone wrong?  Please Barry,
  > show me where I am wrong.  Put me out of my misery.  Or better still put
  > me in my place.  Or even better still, open up your mind.  Think outside
  > of the square.

    Amen!  I'm still waiting for Barry to show me the error of my
ways...  If there IS a relationship between the transition to
superconducting in ceramics and some Casmir potential field, I'm sure
Barry can get a paper out of it.  (And perhaps a Nobel...) But as far
as I can see, there is nothing in current physical theory that
requires that there be a relation, and that it be conservative.  (In
fact there has been a spate of recent papers about the fact that the
Casmir effect is NOT conservative.)  Consider two superconducting
films, one sandwiched between two metal plates, one in free space.
Barry's theory says that either Tc is different for the two films or
that it requires more energy to transition the sandwiched film to
non-conducting at the same Tc.

    There may be such an effect, and it may be small enough that no
one has yet commented on it in the published literature (at least that
I have seen).  Finding and identifying such an effect would, it seems
to me, have a big impact on the design and theory of high Tc
superconductors given their internal structure.  (The superconductive
effect is concentrated in the planes of copper atoms.)  Barry's theory
seems to say that the spacing between the planes has a significant
effect on the bulk superconducting properties due to the conservative
nature of the Casmir effect.

    Hmmm.  Giving Barry's theory a fair shake, creating a conductor
may be the step where energy is required.  The amount required would
depend on the Casmir potential at that point, and the amount of energy
released when the (super)conductor becomes an insulator would again
depend on the local field potential.  The experiment seems easy enough
to do.  Take a sandwich as above and put it in an AC magnetic field.
Measure the energy required to flip the ceramic between non-conducting
and superconducting.  Now put thin (mylar?) shims between the SC film
and the metal blocks, repeat.  Or better cut two samples from the same
film build the two sandwichs, put them in the same magnetic field and
find out if there is an intensity where one sample switches and the
other doesn't.  Hmmm.  Combine two effects--use gold leaf to gold
plate one of the samples.  That should give the maximum effect with a
minimum of material in the samples under test.

   But don't expect to find much.  If this hypothetical field exists,
then it should affect the design of Josephson junction devices.  In
fact, as I understand Barry's theory, the JJ devices I was working
with 20 years ago didn't work.  (Or at least, they would have reacted
to presence of conductors and to very low-level magnetic fields. I
only saw the latter.)


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 07:09:01 1997
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From: Michael C Slivinski <sunbrite@mymail.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: WHAT TYPES OF RADIANT ENERGY WAS CREATED BY THE FIRST 
  ATOMIC BOMB?
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At 09:57 PM 3/12/97, you wrote:
>At 04:22 PM 3/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>KABOOM:
>
>The EM content of the trinity explosion was spectrally complete [EM flood]
>from about 4Hz all the way to the high X ray range the duration is a
>suprisingly long 230 mS
>
>this info is for memory I don't remember whare I read it.
>
>Charlie Ford

Hello all,
If this energy full spectrum energy wave is emmitted into space, and scalar
waves and who knows what waves maybe traveling faster than the speed of light.
Then ourselves or life elsware could use this energy as an indicator of life
of an advanced degree exists out there. Of course natural made vs man(alien)
made nuclear energy explosives must have their own unique signature energy
patterns also.

Next step of course is to probe/investigate further. And point our radio
scopes in that area of the galaxy.  
Maybe that might be why et reports in the 40's-50's were high, because we
were being re-visted.
Just thoughts - not original, reminder... thanks mike s.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 07:12:42 1997
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From: Michael C Slivinski <sunbrite@mymail.net>
Subject: round magnets source possibilty
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Hello all, this was asked and mentioned before,
regarding round magnets. Can the magnets from discarded microwave ovens
be used. And an inexpensive source might be, appliance repair shop[s,
or donation-charity organizations that take appliances as donations
have departments for repair and might give you an almost un-limited
source for a reasonable donation.

thoughts mike s.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 08:29:29 1997
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Date: 13 Mar 97 09:47:14 EST
From: Kenneth Carrigan <74223.210@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
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This  is true and is called the Faraday Disk.  Only speed or angular
rotation is needed - as in the disks of Testatika.

> Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> rpm.  Close to the outer edge is a conductive ring.  The ring is
> connected to one side of a elecrical load and the other side of the load
> connected to the centre of the disk.  The ring will act as one side of a
> capacitor, with the outer surface of the disk, the other.
> 
> As the disk rotates, excess electrons will collect on the disk's outer
> surface and cause an electrical charge to be formed in the space between
> the ring and the disks outer surface.
> 
> Connecting an electrical load from the ring to the centre of the
> spinning disk will then allow electrons to flow.  This current flow in
> the disk will generate a magnetic field, but this field will not
> interact with another to cause a back drag.  It would seem that if the
> disk rotated on magnetic bearings, in a sealed container with no air,
> the only continual input of energy would be that required to accelerate
> the electrons to the velocity of the outer edge of the disk.
<


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 08:32:35 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:52:43 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: MARK SQUIRE <neotech@xbn.shore.net>
cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Interesting OU? Patents
In-Reply-To: <8d3d48f.000a0103cd.uuout@xbn.shore.net>
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On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, mark squire wrote:

> I don't know if you ever actually recieved it, but I had sent you a message
> asking you about the lawn mower that ran on water.  I was just
> wondering if you ever recieved that message since I never heard back
> from you.

Hi Mark!  Yeah, yet another message that I let escape into my inbox
backlog (currently at 1,900 msgs!).  If you're on freenrg-L, try to start
a discussion going.  The author of those messages hasn't been around for
months.  Wes Crosiar on freenrg-L was half way to completing a microwave
lawnmower, but I don't know if he got to the stage of testing it.

.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb@eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 09:44:03 1997
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Message-ID: <3327CB0C.755A@ipgeek.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:38:20 +0000
From: Albert Yang <lithium@ipgeek.com>
Reply-To: lithium@ipgeek.com
Organization: Oriental Guild Resources
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Forget Hamel's Spinner, Try This
References: <3327C524.3B7D@microtronics.com.au>
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I took a look at it, it seems interesting, so I guess I will order the
patents and drawings to it.  

Curious, and I am sure a stupid question... but if this as this is
patented, then why dont' we see more of it?  Lack of funding? 
Government Conspiracy?  Big Business burial?

Thanks for the patent number by the way.

Albert


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 17:53:28 1997
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:48:49 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Albert Yang wrote:
> 
> I took a look at it, it seems interesting, so I guess I will order the
> patents and drawings to it.
> 
> Curious, and I am sure a stupid question... but if this as this is
> patented, then why dont' we see more of it?  Lack of funding?
> Government Conspiracy?  Big Business burial?
> 
> Thanks for the patent number by the way.
> 
> Albert

Hi Albert,
 
Why order the patent?  Just download each page, right click to save the
GIf image on disk and then print it.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 18:15:50 1997
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Message-ID: <3328BF97.6897@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:31:43 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Opposing Flux Density
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------F0070AC5D62
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

Several people have asked me to re-post the data on opposing magnets. 
Attached are a flux contour and an XY plot of the flux density through
the centre of the air gap between the poles.  Observe that the peak of
the flux density occurs outside the air gap.  It is in this area of
increased flux density that the flux gate must move for the DNMEC effect
to function.

Hope this helps to further understand the DNMEC effect.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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--------------F0070AC5D62--


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 19:25:33 1997
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Message-ID: <3328CFCC.2556@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:40:52 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC and Core Flux Density (Part 1)
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------E3C7E2D5E89
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Hi All,

Here are two Gifs showing that system (core) flux density increases as
the flux gate moves closer to the air gap.  The model is of my test
setup and the movement represents 5mm of movement.  Flux density
increases from 0.726T to 0.809T.  Not much, but then for the DNMEC
effect to work, the flux gate can only move in the area where external
flux density increases.  Look for enlarging areas of flux contours
(colours) in the ferromagnetic core material.  Best seen in the bottom
section.

Hope this helps.

This post is in two parts to overcome the 40k mail server limitations. 
Couldn't make the images smaller and hold detail.  At lease not with my
graphic software (Lviewpro).

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 19:18:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA29320; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:16:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:16:06 -0800
Message-ID: <3328C966.101C@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:13:34 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC and MMF Source Location
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--------------12B2690F75E5
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Hi All,

I have been asked to further explain the effect of MMF (magnet & coil)
location on external flux density and on the DNMEC effect.  

I have attached two Gifs which show the effect of the location of the
opposing MMF sources on external flux density in and around a air gap.  

Notice that (in the first Gif) when the MMF sources are buried (not
adjacent to the air gap) and connected to the air gap by ferromagnetic
material, opposing MMF sources cause reduced gap flux density.  

But when (in the second Gif) the MMF sources are adjacent to the air
gap, the flux density just outside of the air gap increases.  

This is why it is very necessary for the MMF sources to be adjacent to
the air gap for the DNMEC effect to work.

Hope this helps.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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--------------12B2690F75E5--



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 19:18:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA29388; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:16:20 -0800
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Message-ID: <3328D024.5F0D@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:42:20 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC and Core Flux Density (Part 2)
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--------------38A0616D3FCC
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Hi All,

Here are two Gifs showing that system (core) flux density increases as
the flux gate moves closer to the air gap.  The model is of my test
setup and the movement represents 5mm of movement.  Flux density
increases from 0.726T to 0.809T.  Not much, but then for the DNMEC
effect to work, the flux gate can only move in the area where external
flux density increases.  Look for enlarging areas of flux contours
(colours) in the ferromagnetic core material.  Best seen in the bottom
section.

Hope this helps.

This post is in two parts to overcome the 40k mail server limitations. 
Couldn't make the images smaller and hold detail.  At lease not with my
graphic software (Lviewpro).

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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AgA7
--------------38A0616D3FCC--


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 20:48:12 1997
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 23:39:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Marvin <ce123@FreeNet.Buffalo.EDU>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
cc: MARK SQUIRE <neotech@xbn.shore.net>, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Interesting OU? Patents
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970313074943.10514B-100000@eskimo.com>
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On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, William Beaty wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, mark squire wrote:
> 
> > I don't know if you ever actually recieved it, but I had sent you a message
> > asking you about the lawn mower that ran on water.  I was just
> > wondering if you ever recieved that message since I never heard back
> > from you.
> 
> Hi Mark!  Yeah, yet another message that I let escape into my inbox
> backlog (currently at 1,900 msgs!).  If you're on freenrg-L, try to start
> a discussion going.  The author of those messages hasn't been around for
> months.  Wes Crosiar on freenrg-L was half way to completing a microwave
> lawnmower, but I don't know if he got to the stage of testing it.
> 
i sent a message to one of the main writers(i cant remember his name right 
now) of the ou lawnmower and i never got a rsponse...he had said that he had
extra info on the topic and would send it to the list...did he ever do this?
i check the archives and did not see any thing....I have(or can get) all the
materials to build and work on this project and am very interested
in any info that someone might provide
 

--=Tim=--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 21:09:41 1997
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Message-ID: <3328DDCD.6A45@csnsys.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:12:04 -0800
From: Scarry Larry <lsradk@csnsys.com>
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> > > asking you about the lawn mower that ran on water.  I was just
> > > wondering if you ever recieved that message since I never heard 

you guys better get real!! did you ever consider what the by products or
waste would be from this supposed lawnmower that runs on water?? Would
that be steam? or simply H2 and O2?
Whoever says they have an engine that runs on water is a charlatain.
If a lawnmower, why not a car, why not an electric plant, hey, why not
power the whole world on simple water that will run a lawnmower??
I've got far better plans and drawings that enable you to run an
outboard motor on thin air--amazing eh?  If you'd like a copy of these
plans just send me 5 back issues of Hustler Magazine and a bag of
cornchips!

cheers,

Scarry Larry

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 23:53:12 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 02:14:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970314021451_-1103936446@emout10.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Trans. : Fogal Transistor Information
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Hi ALL,

Have you visited the GREAT WEB SITE of Gary Hawkins ?
I am very surprised by the few of E-Mail about the FOGAL CHARGE BLOCKING
DEVICE NEW TEST AND RESULT. For whose have do some works on T.Bearden theory
this site MUST BE visited !!!!

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

<< Suj :	Fogal Transistor Information
 Date :	12/03/1997 23:22:56
 From:	ghawk@eskimo.com (Gary Hawkins)
 Resent-from:	vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Reply-to:	vortex-l@eskimo.com
 To:	vortex-l@eskimo.com
 
 There is a source now for information on the Fogal Transistor:
 
 http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/fogal_device/
 
 These pages are very new and so they do not yet contain some 
 new photos on the way, showing scope comparisons of Bill Fogal's 
 transistor to a normal transistor.  I do not yet know the details 
 on what control was used, or the frequencies, etc.
 
 Gary Hawkins 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
 Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
 http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
  >>


---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	ghawk@eskimo.com (Gary Hawkins)
Resent-from:	vortex-l@eskimo.com
Reply-to:	vortex-l@eskimo.com
To:	vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: 97-03-12 23:22:56 EST

There is a source now for information on the Fogal Transistor:

http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/fogal_device/

These pages are very new and so they do not yet contain some 
new photos on the way, showing scope comparisons of Bill Fogal's 
transistor to a normal transistor.  I do not yet know the details 
on what control was used, or the frequencies, etc.

Gary Hawkins 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 00:51:40 1997
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Message-ID: <33291D50.3DE6@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:11:36 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Subject: Re: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
References: <33289527.1E18@interlaced.net> <3328B90E.418@microtronics.com.au> <3328E36C.5F94@interlaced.net>
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Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> 
> (snip)
> 
>  Biggest problem I see is the rate of flux change is going
> > to be much...much smaller than driving the flux gate with a motor.  The
> > smaller the rate of change, the smaller the induced coil EMF and the
> > smaller the external flux density change.
> 
> Yes!  These points worry me also, Greg.  I wouldn't want to cause you
> to follow a blind alley for your particular concept.
> 
> The shading winding on a shaded pole motor is usually a single turn of
> welded copper.  It might be important to be able to try a selection
> of coil turns vs. wire size to vary the impedence of the coil to suit
> the speed of the pendulum swing - I have no good feel for the numbers
> here.  Maybe you could "open" and "close" the coil with a bead of solder
> right on the coil itself to lower resistance.
> 
> If your idea involved SMALL air gaps - then, perhaps the flux gate
> forces would dominate the air loss.  BUT, since the DNMEC involves
> rather large air gaps (if I have that right?)

You do.

> I share your worry about
> pendulum windage.  One option to consider would be to run the rig
> in a crude vacuum tank to reduce the windage.  This would help a
> pendulum rig much more than a motor rig because of the different loss
> breakdown.  The motor would keep bearing, copper, and iron losses -
> even in a vacuum.  The vacuum sounds like a LAST RESORT to me!

Ditto.

> Maybe the best thing to do is to increase the magnetic circuit weight
> as much as possible so you can, in turn, use a heavy flux gate armature.
> My thought is that air drag goes up like area but magnetic circuit
> power is more a function of volume, is'nt it?  You could make the
> pendulum arm flat with rounded edges so that the arm edge "saw" the
> air flow - as a streamlined aircraft strut.  You could cowl in the
> moving parts with a streamlined balsa wood cover a-la model airplane
> technology.  

Built and designed many a glider as a young boy.

> Also, a pendulum has much of its swing at low velocity -
> so that would help.  One help - as the pendulum swing gets slower and
> slower, its losses also get smaller - helps a little to make up for
> the lower electromagnetic forces.
> 
> Greg, the very most important thing is that YOU BUY the idea yourself.
> The first person an OU hunter needs to satisfy is himself (or herself,
> ladies)!  I hate to see you discard hardware that has a lot of your time
> invested in it!  Make sure it makes sense to you.
> 
> Frank Stenger (bedtime!)

Hi Frank,

Maybe this will make it to your sleep level.

I believe your idea is basically sound, I have bought it.  

Hook, line & sinker.  

I am currently designing a 45 degree sector with laminar flow sides (if
I get it right) and 24 flux gates along the lower edge.  The idea is for
the multiple flux gates to boost the OU operation by 24 times at a fixed
frictional loss cost.  

Any good ideas for bearings?  I was thinking razor blades on glass.  

Another problem is that the flux gate forces are not at right angles to
the driving shaft.  They vary as coil current changes and alters the
point of max flux density.  The variation is not (according to the
QField sims) too great.  Variations are around 5%.  Still, the razor
blades should be able to handle that.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 02:39:34 1997
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 03:29:20 -0700 (MST)
From: "John R. Tooker" <jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Room Temp. Superconductors
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Hi all. :)
I was wondering if anyone can help me. A couple of years ago, I had a copy
of a patent for a room temperature superconductor. Basically, it was
bisimuth in an epoxy matrix. An electric current was used to form fibres
of this material. Aparrently, the inventor was only able to get strands of
a few mm in length. I also remember that the patent was from the early
'80's, possibly 1984.
Anywho, my point with all this is, does anyone know what patent I am
talking about, and possibly what the patent number is, so I can order
another copy from the US patent office.
Thanks all. :)
John


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 07:34:43 1997
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:34:12 -0500 (EST)
From: John Alexander Lotoski <jalotosk@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Room Temp. Superconductors
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> 
> Hi all. :)
> I was wondering if anyone can help me. A couple of years ago, I had a copy
> of a patent for a room temperature superconductor. Basically, it was
> bisimuth in an epoxy matrix. An electric current was used to form fibres
> of this material. Aparrently, the inventor was only able to get strands of
> a few mm in length. I also remember that the patent was from the early
> '80's, possibly 1984.
> Anywho, my point with all this is, does anyone know what patent I am
> talking about, and possibly what the patent number is, so I can order
> another copy from the US patent office.
> Thanks all. :)
> John

	Can't help you out, but if you find the patent number again, can
you forward it to me?

	Thanx.
		John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 10:02:27 1997
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Message-ID: <33299219.702B@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:59:57 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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Scarry Larry -

> did you ever consider what the by products or
> waste would be from this supposed lawnmower that runs on water?? 
> Would that be steam?

Steam. Energy is supposedly derived from unknown overunity processes
encountered during the craking and recombining of water. Some of these
machines do appear to work, and have been witnessed running in demos.
One of these is going to be examined by some folks independently. Watch
for results in "Infinite Energy" magazine if you're interested in an
honest appraisal. 

Infinite Energy Magazine, 
Edited by E. Mallove, 
P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816,
Tel: 603-228-4516,
 Fax: 603-224-5975 
E-mail: 76570,2270

If you're really *not* interested in actual replication and analysis of
controversial science/engineering or overunity claims, and think you
have all the answers already, then why be a member of this list?

By the way, how did you get those scars?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 11:03:50 1997
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:37:54 -1000
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John -

   >  I was wondering if anyone can help me. A couple of
   >  years ago, I had a copy of a patent for a room
   >  temperature superconductor. Basically, it was
   >  bisimuth in an epoxy matrix.

Here's the URL for IBM's patent search engine. You might be able to find
that one with a keyword search. 

http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/

Paste this "near word" search in for a good list of patents to start
from:

fiber <near/12> superconduct

You can then search on referenced patents appearing on individual patent
pages. Great thing, that patent search engine! You can do in a few
minutes what would have taken *many* hours manually at the library.
Database is from 1971 to present. If you're right about the year, then
it's in there.

Let us know if you find what you were looking for, ok? I'm interested in
that stuff too.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 11:06:41 1997
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Date: 14 Mar 97 13:55:41 EST
From: "Pete Roberts (UK)" <101657.1240@CompuServe.COM>
To: Admin <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Main List Unsubscription
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HELP!!!  I've subscribed to the Digest so don't need to be on the main list
anymore.  However, your mail robot won't unsubscribe me. Could you please
unsubscribe me from the list (but NOT the digest) as sometimes I'm having to
download nearly 100k of data at a go!

Thanks,

Pete:-)  

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 14:30:58 1997
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> 	Can't help you out, but if you find the patent number again, can
> you forward it to me?
> 
> 	Thanx.
> 		John
Hi! :)
If I do, I will be happy to pass it on. Take care. :)
John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 14:35:31 1997
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From: "John R. Tooker" <jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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> 
> Here's the URL for IBM's patent search engine. You might be able to find
> that one with a keyword search. 
> 
> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/
> 
> Paste this "near word" search in for a good list of patents to start
> from:
> 
> fiber <near/12> superconduct
> 
> You can then search on referenced patents appearing on individual patent
> pages. Great thing, that patent search engine! You can do in a few
> minutes what would have taken *many* hours manually at the library.
> Database is from 1971 to present. If you're right about the year, then
> it's in there.
> 
> Let us know if you find what you were looking for, ok? I'm interested in
> that stuff too.
> 
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI
> 
> 
Hi! :) Thanks for replying. :) I tried that, and I may have missed it, but
I don't *think* I got the patent #. Perhaps I missed it due to fatigue.
I'll try again, on the off chance.
Take care. :)
John


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 15:12:31 1997
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Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Scott Little wrote:
> >
> (snip)
> 
> > miniature ball bearings with 4-6mm bore.  lightly
> > lubricated and properly aligned will be quite low in friction.
> 
> Sounds good, Scott.  Hey did you not suggest a type of hall probe you
> have used?  I think Greg should instrument the stator and the flux gate
> so the process can be followed on a scope (Greg sounds like he would
> have a good scope around, sigh.... I don't!)
> 
> Frank Stenger

Hi Frank,

Way ahead of you.  I do have and use several Hall effect devices.  I
also have a 50Mhz Dual trace, delayed sweep scope (it really goes to
better than 100Mhz due to some redesign work).

I have decided to use two stators to balance out the unequal force
vectors that could cause excess loading on the pedulum bearings.  Scotts
idea on the bearing is also being designed in.

I like your shaded pole idea as well, Frank.  Seems like my Gold wedding
ring may come into another use.  Now to find a few ferrite "C" cores to
fit the build.  My existing cores were removed from a dead high voltage
transformer.  Need something bout 3 times that size now.

Looks like I will finally have to get a scanner for the scope photos.

And I was looking forward to a relaxing weekend with a few good Southern
Vales reds.  Oh well, the unknown wins again.

Thanks again for the input.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 16:00:14 1997
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"Some mothers do have them" Your skeptism is unhealthy! Your negativity
sublime!!

It has been done not far from where I am sitting, a small car in this
case not a lawn-mower. Unfortunately he was another whose life was
threatened... the details went to the grave with him. (He died
naturally)

The only tidbit I know is that he used a Ford Model-T ignition coil. My
guess is he had latched onto the "Brown's Gas" principle? Dunno, I have
no more details so don't ask.

I'll offer ten magazines and two bags of cornchips if you go back to
your cave and don't drop your seed in here again. 8-) And while you are
there read Barry Lynes' book "The Cancer Cure That Worked: The Rife
Report" to see how badly just _one_ innovator of the past was treated.
It is available from Amazon.com.

Cheers... Rex

> Whoever says they have an engine that runs on water is a charlatain.
> If a lawnmower, why not a car, why not an electric plant, hey, why not
> power the whole world on simple water that will run a lawnmower??
> I've got far better plans and drawings that enable you to run an
> outboard motor on thin air--amazing eh?  If you'd like a copy of these
> plans just send me 5 back issues of Hustler Magazine and a bag of
> cornchips!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 18:31:25 1997
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Subject: RE: Interesting OU? Patents
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 20:29:30 -0600
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Is the question:

A) Does an odd-ball generator like that really work?
 
B) Why does it work?

C) Why doesn't it work?

I am here to learn as much as I can and to contribute something, even if it is a small thing.

REMEMBER:
Be nice, be kind, and be happy.

Now, can we get back to finding facts?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 19:57:53 1997
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From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey)
Subject: RE: Interesting OU? Patents
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If it's new, you won't understand it.

If you understand it, it's not new!

If you must understand it before you can watch it, Go Away!

If you want to make it, watch it,

Fool around with it and make progess...

Without thinking about it - and understand it later...

Then Stick Around!


I want a complete list of O-U and F-E patents for my web site.

Send me contreibutions please.


By the way - for all you BIG thinkers out there...

1.  Why are there 2 tides per day?

2.  Why does a tennis racket (or a spoon) always spin 1/2 turn
    when you flip it over (without your imparting that spin)?

3.  Why does the Sun get bigger when it sets?

(3 questions from my MIT PhD Orals...)  Good Luck...


>Is the question:
>
>A) Does an odd-ball generator like that really work?
>
>B) Why does it work?
>
>C) Why doesn't it work?
>
>I am here to learn as much as I can and to contribute something, even if
>it is a small thing.
>
>REMEMBER:
>Be nice, be kind, and be happy.
>
>Now, can we get back to finding facts?


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 21:39:13 1997
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Message-ID: <332A439F.5C0E@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:07:19 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Patrick Bailey wrote:
> 
> I want a complete list of O-U and F-E patents for my web site.

So do I.

> Send me contreibutions please.

Hi Patrick,


Here is my latest list:

US Patents :

US 3374376  Kromrey    (Not yet on IBM server)

US 3811058  Kiniski    Rotary-to-Reciprocating Device,

US 3879622  Ecklin     Permanent Magnet Motion Conversion

US 3890548  Gray       Pulsed capacitor discharge electric engine
       
US 4084408  van Platen Method of recovering energy by means of a cyclic
                        thermodynamic process

US 4151431  Johnson    Permanent magnet motor

US 4443776  Cunningham Rotary Magnetic Device (Permanent Magnet Motor)

US 4877983  Johnson    Magnetic Force Generating Methods and Apparatus

US 4215330  Hartman    Permanent magnet propulsion system

US 5191258  German     Electric current generator including torque
                        reducing countermagnetic field

US 5402021  Johnson    Magnetic propulsion system

US 5416391  Correa     Electromechanical transduction of plasma pulses

US 5436518  Kawai      Motive power generating device

US 5449989  Correa     Energy conversion system

US 5502354  Correa     DIrect current energized pulse generator
utilizing
                        autogenous cyclical pulsed abnormal glow
discharges



UK Patents :

UK 2282708A Aspden,    Patent Application
            Adams      


Anyone have any more to add?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 22:20:48 1997
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Subject: RE: Interesting OU? Patents
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At 07:28 PM 3/14/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>
>>A) Does an odd-ball generator like that really work?
>>
>>I might have missed something but what is an odd ball generator

if you are lokking for some energy ideas check out web site
http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel

Geoff

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 22:13:18 1997
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From: knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Room Temp. Superconductors
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>
>Hi all. :)
>I was wondering if anyone can help me. A couple of years ago, I had a copy
>of a patent for a room temperature superconductor. Basically, it was
>bisimuth in an epoxy matrix. An electric current was used to form fibres
>of this material. Aparrently, the inventor was only able to get strands of
>a few mm in length. I also remember that the patent was from the early
>'80's, possibly 1984.

Hi John,

  You may be talking about the work done in 1985 by Dr. Leonid Grigorov.  He
has since been working under contract with Mark Goldes of Magnetic Power
Inc. in California.  They have been working with the USAF to develop this SC
material.  Their work was patent pending the last time I spoke with them
about one year ago.  MPI is also the US distributor of the Takahashi line of
"products".  Their number is 707-829-9394.

-Knuke

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 23:04:47 1997
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From: Michael Randall <mrandall@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: More Hamel Spinning Tops
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Geoff Greaves wrote:

>So, nothing to get excited about. I plan to try the same thing but with
>magnetic suspension rather than a ball bearing which would allow even more
>wobble with even less friction and be more like an element of the GMD. Anyone
>else thinking along these lines?
>
Hi Geoff,

My results today confirms your observations for both the ring and gate
design to the ring magnet with 1" ball bearing. Still have to try the 2.5"
diameter ball test.

Next going to try with magnetic suspension. Planning to try first on
attaching a floating shaft to each of the two inner floating magnet
rotators. This would confine the rotors over the fixed top and bottom
magnetic plates (and above each other in the center) and thereby eliminating
the need for the side magnets. The shafts could wobble a little to allow the
Butterfly Effect to kick-in. Looking for continuous rotation and torque
(with fingers crossed!). What line where you thinking of?

Best Regards,
Michael Randall 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 23:11:29 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Questions (his, mine and ours)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:02:28 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <332b0a80.24618680@mail.netspace.net.au>
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On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:03:50 -0500 (EST), Tixif@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>Non-magnetic material is the unordered arrangement of "tiny" magnetic domains
>and their disarray causes the substance to exhibit no external magnetism.
> Along the same line,  magnetized materials are stated to have arranged and
>orderly domains where they now assist in exhibiting an external force.
>
[snip]
Side note:
If this conventional explanation is indeed correct, and each individual
domain can be considered to be a small magnet in its own right, then it
would appear that the magnetic fields of magnets do indeed cancel out, when
opposed, provided that the distance from the magnets to the measuring
instrument is large relative to the distance between the magnets
themselves.
This might also explain the apparent dichotomy between macro scale magnetic
field behaviour, and that of a bifilar coil. The difference being only in
the relative distance, magnet-magnet and magnet observer.
This would appear to have been somewhat born out by the simulations that
greg did of the magnetic field around a bifilar coil. (At short range a
field was indeed evident).


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 23:41:01 1997
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Hi All,

Here is the latest OU? list.  Suggest you get in early as the IBM server
is going to be busy.

Evan, lets get Joe's listed as well.  If you could post me the app
numbers and dates, I will add them.

Current list (as of 15/3/97) of reported OU patents,
 (compiled by Greg Watson & Fred Epps) :

Country  Number	Inventor	Invention

US	 600457	Stubblefield	Electric Battery. Apparently used 
				 a 'forgotten' EM effect called the 
				 Magnetovoltaic Effect. I (Fred Epps)
				 will be posting an article about 
				 this effect soon.

US	 685957	Tesla		Apparatus For The Utilization Of 
				 Radiant Energy

US	1826727	Britteny	"Radio Apparatus.  Not in itself an 
				 overunity device, but part of a 
				 system that powered his house 
				 for years."

US	1835721	Powell		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	1859643	Worthington	Permanent Magnet Motor

US	1859764	Bougon		Magnetic Device

US	1963213	Poysa		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	2115578	Hall		Radiant Energy Receiver

US	2279690	Lindsey		Motor/Generator Unit

UK	2282708	Aspden,
		Adams		Patent Application

US	3249944	Srockman	Electromagnetic Transduction 
				 Utilizing Radiant Energy

US	3374376	Kromrey		Electric Generator

US	3386883	Farnsworth	Method And Apparatus For Producing

US	3403323			"Parametric Transformer.  No 
				 overunity claims have been made 
				 for this device, but I (Fred Epps) 
				 feel that parametric devices have 
				 potential in this regard."

US	3469130	Jines		Means For Shielding And Unshielding 
				 Permanent Magnets etc

US	3703653	Tracy		Magnetic Motor

US	3811058	Kiniski		Rotary-to-Reciprocating Device

US	3835365	Zoleta		Flywheel Oscillator Power System

US	3879622	Ecklin		Permanent Magnet Motion Conversion 
				 Device

US	3890548	Gray		Pulsed Capacitor Discharge Electric 
				 Engine

US	3899703	Kinnison	Permanent Magnet Motion conversion 
				 Means

US	3914004	Alexander	Method And Apparatus For Increasing 
				 Electrical Power

US	3992132	Putt		Energy Conversion System

US	4004210	Yater		Reversible Thermoelectric Converter

US	4006401	DeRivas		Electromagnetic Generator

US	4024421	Teal		Magnetically Operable Engine

US	4077001	Richardson	Electromagnetic Convertor With 
				 Stationary Variable-Reluctance 
				 Members

US	4084408	van Platen	Method of recovering energy by means
				 of a cyclic thermodynamic process

US	4113589	Leach		High Intensity Energy Transfer
				 Technique

US	4148701	Leach		High Efficiency Energy Transfer System

US	4151431	Johnson		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	4179633	Kelly		Magnetic Wheel Drive

US	4207773			Magnetic Piston Machine

US	4215330	Hartman		Permanent magnet propulsion system

US	4305024	Kuroki		Magnetic Motor

US	4394230	Puharich	Method and Apparatus For Splitting
				 Water

US	4428193	Papp		Noble Gas Engine

US	4443776	Cunningham	Rotary Magnetic Device
				 (Real Permanent Magnet Motor)

US	4500827	Merritt,
		Pasichinskyj	Linear Reciprocating Electrical
				 Generator

US	4567407	Ecklin		Biased Unitized Motor Alternator

US	4772816	Spence		Energy Conversion System. 
				 An interesting device that uses 
				 a magnetostatic field to increase
				 the potential of orbiting electrons

US	4826581	Meyer		Controlled Process For The Production
				 Of Thermal Energy etc

US	4835433	Brown		Apparatus For Direct Conversion
				 Of Radioactive Decay Energy To
				 Electrical Energy

US	4877983	Johnson		Magnetic Force Generating Methods
				 & Apparatus

US	4897592	Hyde		Electrostatic Energy Field Power
				 Generating System

US	4904926	Pasichinskyj	Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator

US	4975608	Aspen		Switched Reluctance Motor With
				 Full AC commutation

US	5018180	Shoulders	Energy Conversion Using High Charge
				 Density

US	5065085	Aspden,
		Strachan	Thermoelectric Energy Conversion

US	5146395	McKie		Power Supply Including Two Tank
				 Circuits

US	5191258	German		Electric current generator including
				 torque reducing countermagnetic field

US	5372688	Patterson	System For Electrolysis Of Liquid
				 Electrolyte

US	5402021	Johnson		Magnetic propulsion system

US	5416391	Correa		Electromechanical transduction of
				 plasma pulses

US	5436518	Kawai		Motive power generating device

US	5449989	Correa		Energy Conversion System

US	5502354	Correa		Direct current energized pulse
				 generator utilizing autogenous
				 cyclical pulsed abnormal glow
				 discharges

Good reading to you all.

Any more to add, just let me know.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 02:16:51 1997
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From: Max Liftoff <max@triode.net.au>
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Where do the flies go in winter?
Where do the birds hide when it rain hard?
Why is there air? (to blow up volly balls, of course!)
If the sun was made of cheese, would it be the biggest pizza in the
universe? (yum!)

And of course, the old standby: Why am I here? (to blow up volley balls of
course!)

And remember the universal answer to life, the universe, and everything 
is summed up in the the existentialist's motto:

      "No matter where
   you go, there you are!"
     (O God, I'm bored.)

Yours in Deep Thought,
Maxwell's Cat.


On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Patrick Bailey wrote:

> If it's new, you won't understand it.
> 
> If you understand it, it's not new!
> 
> If you must understand it before you can watch it, Go Away!
> 
> If you want to make it, watch it,
> 
> Fool around with it and make progess...
> 
> Without thinking about it - and understand it later...
> 
> Then Stick Around!
> 
> 
> I want a complete list of O-U and F-E patents for my web site.
> 
> Send me contreibutions please.
> 
> 
> By the way - for all you BIG thinkers out there...
> 
> 1.  Why are there 2 tides per day?
> 
> 2.  Why does a tennis racket (or a spoon) always spin 1/2 turn
>     when you flip it over (without your imparting that spin)?
> 
> 3.  Why does the Sun get bigger when it sets?
> 
> (3 questions from my MIT PhD Orals...)  Good Luck...
> 
> 
> >Is the question:
> >
> >A) Does an odd-ball generator like that really work?
> >
> >B) Why does it work?
> >
> >C) Why doesn't it work?
> >
> >I am here to learn as much as I can and to contribute something, even if
> >it is a small thing.
> >
> >REMEMBER:
> >Be nice, be kind, and be happy.
> >
> >Now, can we get back to finding facts?
> 
> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 02:13:23 1997
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Does anyone want to start a thread on OU coils and transformers?
There hasnt been much discussion on these on this list.

EG:

UDT, Hubbard coil, Hendershot, etc...

I will start it off by asking for opinions on the feasibility of
OU in a coil or transformer. If so, what principle of operation is being
suggested?

Maxwell.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 08:08:07 1997
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Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:14:49 +0000
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:03:50 -0500 (EST), Tixif@aol.com wrote:
> [snip]
> >Non-magnetic material is the unordered arrangement of "tiny" magnetic domains
> >and their disarray causes the substance to exhibit no external magnetism.
> > Along the same line,  magnetized materials are stated to have arranged and
> >orderly domains where they now assist in exhibiting an external force.
> >
> [snip]
> Side note:
> If this conventional explanation is indeed correct, and each individual
> domain can be considered to be a small magnet in its own right, then it
> would appear that the magnetic fields of magnets do indeed cancel out, when
> opposed, provided that the distance from the magnets to the measuring
> instrument is large relative to the distance between the magnets
> themselves.
> This might also explain the apparent dichotomy between macro scale magnetic
> field behaviour, and that of a bifilar coil. The difference being only in
> the relative distance, magnet-magnet and magnet observer.
> This would appear to have been somewhat born out by the simulations that
> greg did of the magnetic field around a bifilar coil. (At short range a
> field was indeed evident).

An interesting line of reasoning.

One more point of data however:

Bifilar coils can be constructed on any scale, and the effect is the
same.  Magnetic domains also come in a wide range of sized, from
microscopic to macroscopic, and again, the effect is the same.

It seems that physcial size is not the factor that controls the
difference in behaviors.

So what then is?

Once we wind a wire into a coil, and produce the macropole of a magnet,
we have added some form of substructure to the field, and it no longer
undergoes vector superposition.

The field around a staight conductor has not yet had this substructure
infolded, and will undergo vector superposition, which is why we can
make the macropole by winding the coil.

So maybe not all flux is created equal?

The next step is to include the behaviors of the B field components of
EM waves in free space, and see if we can produce this same dichotomy of
behaviors.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 08:29:01 1997
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From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox)
Subject: Re: Siberian Colui (SP?)
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Fellow searchers;

I have something that I want to sell, I trust it won't offend anyone by
advertising it to you all as it is of direct interest to F/E ers.

It is a Siberian Colui tube, made of pyrex tube, 5/8" diam. is filled with
Argon. For those who might not know what it is it is a cirlce of tubing
approx. 4" in diameter. it has four electrodes each placed 90% appart.
Beautifully made. I also have a set of ceramic magnets cut the recommended
way (in half).

I would like to get $75 including UPS to you. Thanks kindly, Byrun. (604)
524-4062, byrun_fox@mindlink.bc.ca
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 09:33:10 1997
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Hi All,

The just posted list of OU? patents didn't list Joseph Newman's patent
application details.  I asked Evan Soule to provide the details. 
However you view the Newman motor, it is a forever item in the search
for OU and should be included in the OU? list.  

My personal view is that there are elements of Joe's work that can't be
rejected, and should be further studied.  

A review of the patents listed, causes me to have serious concerns about
the US patent system.  On  several of the patents, I have a real concern
as to the validity of the claims and the basic of patent issue.  Maybe I
just don't understand the basic for US patent numbers to be awarded.  

In a very naive and simple way, I thought that patents were for real
world, working ideas.  Working models which demonstrated to the patent
dept that the ideas were based on actual, physical working units which
could deliver the GOODS as claimed.

>From a review of some of the following patents, i believe that is NOT
so.  I see no reason, based on the following discussion, why Joseph
Newman's work should not be included with a patent number.  

My view, but what do I know?

Anyway here is the updated OU? patent list.  Additions welcome.

Current list of reported OU patents (compiled by Greg Watson & Fred Epps
15/3/97)

Country  Number	Inventor	Invention

US	 179474 Joseph Newman	Energy Machine		
				 Continuation-in-Part of the Prior 
				 Copending Application filed 
				 January 9, 1980, which is also a 
				 Continuation-in-Part of the earlier
				 Patent Application filed in 1979
				 which remains a Pending Patent 
				 Application in the United States.

US	 600457	Stubblefield	Electric Battery. Apparently used 
				 a 'forgotten' EM effect called the 
				 Magnetovoltaic Effect. I (Fred Epps)
				 will be posting an article about 
				 this effect soon.

US	 685957	Tesla		Apparatus For The Utilization Of 
				 Radiant Energy

US	1826727	Britteny	"Radio Apparatus.  Not in itself an 
				 overunity device, but part of a 
				 system that powered his house 
				 for years."

US	1835721	Powell		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	1859643	Worthington	Permanent Magnet Motor

US	1859764	Bougon		Magnetic Device

US	1963213	Poysa		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	2115578	Hall		Radiant Energy Receiver

US	2279690	Lindsey		Motor/Generator Unit

UK	2282708	Aspden,
		Adams		Patent Application

US	3249944	Srockman	Electromagnetic Transduction 
				 Utilizing Radiant Energy

US	3374376	Kromrey		Electric Generator

US	3386883	Farnsworth	Method And Apparatus For Producing

US	3403323			"Parametric Transformer.  No 
				 overunity claims have been made 
				 for this device, but I (Fred Epps) 
				 feel that parametric devices have 
				 potential in this regard."

US	3469130	Jines		Means For Shielding And Unshielding 
				 Permanent Magnets etc

US	3703653	Tracy		Magnetic Motor

US	3811058	Kiniski		Rotary-to-Reciprocating Device

US	3835365	Zoleta		Flywheel Oscillator Power System

US	3879622	Ecklin		Permanent Magnet Motion Conversion 
				 Device

US	3890548	Gray		Pulsed Capacitor Discharge Electric 
				 Engine

US	3899703	Kinnison	Permanent Magnet Motion conversion 
				 Means

US	3914004	Alexander	Method And Apparatus For Increasing 
				 Electrical Power

US	3992132	Putt		Energy Conversion System

US	4004210	Yater		Reversible Thermoelectric Converter

US	4006401	DeRivas		Electromagnetic Generator

US	4024421	Teal		Magnetically Operable Engine

US	4077001	Richardson	Electromagnetic Convertor With 
				 Stationary Variable-Reluctance 
				 Members

US	4084408	van Platen	Method of recovering energy by means
				 of a cyclic thermodynamic process

US	4113589	Leach		High Intensity Energy Transfer
				 Technique

US	4148701	Leach		High Efficiency Energy Transfer System

US	4151431	Johnson		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	4179633	Kelly		Magnetic Wheel Drive

US	4207773			Magnetic Piston Machine

US	4215330	Hartman		Permanent magnet propulsion system

US	4305024	Kuroki		Magnetic Motor

US	4394230	Puharich	Method and Apparatus For Splitting
				 Water

US	4428193	Papp		Noble Gas Engine

US	4443776	Cunningham	Rotary Magnetic Device
				 (Real Permanent Magnet Motor)

US	4500827	Merritt,
		Pasichinskyj	Linear Reciprocating Electrical
				 Generator

US	4567407	Ecklin		Biased Unitized Motor Alternator

US	4772816	Spence		Energy Conversion System. 
				 An interesting device that uses 
				 a magnetostatic field to increase
				 the potential of orbiting electrons

US	4826581	Meyer		Controlled Process For The Production
				 Of Thermal Energy etc

US	4835433	Brown		Apparatus For Direct Conversion
				 Of Radioactive Decay Energy To
				 Electrical Energy

US	4877983	Johnson		Magnetic Force Generating Methods
				 & Apparatus

US	4897592	Hyde		Electrostatic Energy Field Power
				 Generating System

US	4904926	Pasichinskyj	Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator

US	4975608	Aspen		Switched Reluctance Motor With
				 Full AC commutation

US	5018180	Shoulders	Energy Conversion Using High Charge
				 Density

US	5065085	Aspden,
		Strachan	Thermoelectric Energy Conversion

US	5146395	McKie		Power Supply Including Two Tank
				 Circuits

US	5191258	German		Electric current generator including
				 torque reducing countermagnetic field

US	5372688	Patterson	System For Electrolysis Of Liquid
				 Electrolyte

US	5402021	Johnson		Magnetic propulsion system

US	5416391	Correa		Electromechanical transduction of
				 plasma pulses

US	5436518	Kawai		Motive power generating device

US	5449989	Correa		Energy Conversion System

US	5502354	Correa		Direct current energized pulse
				 generator utilizing autogenous
				 cyclical pulsed abnormal glow
				 discharges

Enjoy.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 09:44:06 1997
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Max Liftoff wrote:
> 
> Does anyone want to start a thread on OU coils and transformers?
> There hasnt been much discussion on these on this list.
> 
> EG:
> 
> UDT, Hubbard coil, Hendershot, etc...
> 
> I will start it off by asking for opinions on the feasibility of
> OU in a coil or transformer. If so, what principle of operation is being
> suggested?
> 
> Maxwell.

Hi Maxwell,

What, didn't you read the Ferrite rod & Coil discussion.

A demo is simple.  Apply current to an air cored solenoid,  Allow a
ferrite rod to be attracted into the centre of the col and watch coil
current drop as the rod is accelerated into the centre.  Current drops,
rod gains kinetic energy.  OU?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 11:40:05 1997
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From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: The Patent
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>From: Murray Orrick
>Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:24:47 -0800
>Subject: What's the deal with the patent?
>
>Hi all,
>I have been passively observing this list for a few months now and am
>excited to see more interest in actually building motors & generators
>based on Joe's theories.  I am a musician/audio engineer and am not
>interested in building a device myself (not my bag), though I am very
>interested in seeing over-unity and free energy devices take over energy
>production on our planet.  I of course would love to have my house and
>my car powered by such technology, but more importantly all of us need
>to have access to it.
>
>So for mass commercialization, we need to get Joe his patent.  I find it
>absolutely ridiculous and quite frustrating that patents have been
>awarded to other inventors of OU devices, while Joe has been denied.
>WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?????
>
>Let's make the patent office (or whoever is in charge there) take notice
>and give Joe his patent for God's sake!
>
>Evan, you have been doing a terrific job in providing a forum for Joe's
>ideas, and have been a leader in championing Joe's cause.  What can we
>all do to help Joe get his patent?  What can I do?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Murray Orrick
>
>

Dear Murray --

As they say, "I GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION!"

There is something every individual can do -- if possible:

It is time to rekindle what was done some years ago -- and the opportunity
for success is greater _now_ than then:

As many of you may know, at one point ELEVEN different U.S. CONGRESSMEN
(both Democrats and Republicans) introduced eleven different (but
identically worded) Private Relief Bills to have Congress issue Joseph
Newman a patent directly.  There is precedence for this, and Congress does
have the power to do this since it usually delegates its power in this
regard to the Executive Branch (PTO).

At that time, all ELEVEN Bills were blocked by _one_ Congressman:
Congressman Robert Kastenmeier from Wisconsin.  His argument: the case was
currently pending in the Federal Court in Washington and he was unwilling
(as Chairman of the Subcommittee in question where all 11 Bills were
referred) to hold hearings on the eleven Bills.  We, of course, thought his
attitude was ridiculous --- since our position was, "Since when was the
Legislative Branch of government dependent upon what the Judicial Branch of
government was doing?"

But there is something EVEN MORE REVEALING:

Those 11 Congressmen were totally frustrated with Kastenmeier and his lack
of action on their legislation.  At one point it got so bad that several of
the Congressman in support of Joe had written very direct, pointed letters
to Kastenmeier requesting IMMEDIATE ACTION on their legislation.  In many
case Kastenmeier DID NOT EVEN RESPOND to his fellow colleagues' letters (I
understand that this is considered a serious breach of normal Congressional
behavior).

Well, the following is a _direct quote_ from a reply from Kastenmeier to a
supporter who had originally written Kastenmeier on Joe's behalf:

"At the present, because the issues of patentability are pending in court,
we have no plans to conduct hearings on this issue.  YOU SHOULD ALSO KNOW
THAT OFFICIALS OF PRESIDENT REAGAN HAVE INDICATED THEIR OPPOSITION TO MR.
NEWMAN'S PRIVATE RELIEF BILLS.  THUS, UNLESS THE PRESIDENT CHANGES HIS
POSITION, LEGISLATION ON THIS TOPIC IS UNLIKELY."  [Emphasis added.]

__________________________________________________________

When I read these words I was astonished.  So were a number of U.S.
Congressmen!!!

My real question to Kastenmeier:  Since when did a DEMOCRATIC member
(Kastenmeier) of the _Legislative_ Branch of Government care about the
position of a REPUBLICAN President (_Executive_ Branch of Government)?

Something is very wrong here.  This was one of the clues which led us to
understand that those wielding (political) power to stop/delay the
implementation of this technology were controlling not only the several
branches of government, but also members of BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES in
government.

And Congressman Livingston (one of the 11 Congressmen) wrote to Kastenmeier:

"Dear Bob (Kastenmeier):

"I have recently seen a copy of the correspondence which your Subcommittee
is sending to individuals who contact you about the Joseph Newman/U.S.
Patent Office dispute.

"Your letter states that the private legislation now pending which would
grant Joseph Newman the legal rights to his invention 'seeks to have the
Congress make a scientific judgment that the Newman invention works.'  This
is appallingly inaccurate.  These Bills do not require Congress to make any
scientific determinations at all.  They approach the issue from a strictly
legal standpoint.  More specifically, they require the Secretary of
Commerce to issue a patent to Joseph Newman based on the fact that THE
INVENTOR HAS FULFILLED ALL OF THE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS NECESSARY TO
RECEIVE A PATENT.

"The job of Patent Office officials is to determine whether or not the
inventor has complied with these requirements.  Under normal Patent Office
procedures, the evidence which Mr. Newman has submitted to demonstrate the
operability of his device would be sufficient to obtain a patent.
Unfortunately, the Patent Office has shown blatant disregard for its own
established procedures in this case.

"It is not the job of Patent Office officials to serve as a consumer
protection agency or to guarantee operability of any patented device.  If
your staff has done any research into this matter, it would know that, as
well as the fact that _many_ inventions which have received patents later
proved to be inoperable.

"The Subcommittee's letter also states that 'the NBS concluded that
Newman's invention did not produce more energy than was put into it.'  This
is true.  However, the letter fails to mention the fact that the NBS test
results are invalid since NBS officials grounded Newman's machine during
testing, something which the inventor says should not be done when testing
the device for output.  NBS officials have openly admitted this.

"Finally, the letter states that 'official representatives of President
Reagan have indicated their opposition to Mr. Newman's private relief
bills.  Thus, unless the President changes his position, legislation on
this topic is unlikely."  I would like to know who these 'official
representatives' are.  I was unaware that the President had made any
official statement on this subject, and if you could bring to my attention
any information which documents this, I would be most appreciative.

"Thank you for your time and cooperation.  I would sincerely appreciate a
response to this letter.

Sincerely,

CONGRESSMAN ROBERT L. LIVINGSTON
Member of Congress"

__________________________________________________________

Congressman Kastenmeier __NEVER__ responded to the above letter from
Congressman Livingston!  At the very least, this was considered a serious
'breach in Congressional etiquette' according to Livingston's
Administrative Assistant.
__________________________________________________________

I am happy to report (due in part to our efforts in conjunction with
residents in Wisconsin) --- that Congressman Kastenmeier was defeated in
his bid to retain his Congressional seat --- after over 30 years in
Congress.  [Side note: I was informed by Wisconsin residents that
Kastenmeier was so "entrenched" in Washington, D.C. that he did not even
have a permanent residence (physical house) in his own district --- his
"official residence" in his home District of Wisconsin was a hotel room.
His primary residence was in Washington, D.C.]

Congressman Trent Lott said, "I do not feel that the Patent Office has done
enough to process Mr. Newman's Patent Application.  Therefore, I feel that
the legislative process is now the best alternative."

Senator John Stennis said, "Mr. Newman has made repeated efforts to get his
machine patented and has encountered substantial obstacles at every turn.
If every inventor ran into as many problems in trying to get a patent as
Joseph Newman has, I doubt that we would have made much scientific progress
in the last two centuries, and we certainly would not enjoy many of the
products that we take for granted today."

Congressman Robert Livingston asks these questions, "Why has the Patent
Office, which has been entrusted by Congress with the important task of
promoting scientific progress, gone to such lengths to deny this man the
legal right to his invention?  Why has the Federal Judge's treatment of
Newman been so arbitrary and high-handed?  Why did it take four months and
over $82,000 to (incompetently) test an invention which supposedly doesn't
work, and where did the money come from?  Clearly, Joseph Newman is being
denied his Constitutional right to due process of law.  I strongly feel
that Congress should act because the Executive and Judicial branches have
failed this American citizen.  It is totally in order for Congress to grant
Joseph Newman a patent and to allow the invention to be tested where it
should have been tested a long time ago --- in the American marketplace."

Congressman Thomas Kindness stated in testimony before a Senate Hearing
held on Joseph Newman's behalf: "This is a case where extraordinary action
is appropriate.  One need only look at the convoluted, tortuous path that
this case has taken to know that Joseph Newman has been denied the
fundamental fairness and objectivity that is the right of every potential
patent holder.  When reasonable men differ, as they have in this case, the
final result should not be a decision by bureaucratic fiat, but rather an
accommodation should be reached that allows the device to rise or fall on
its own merits!  The technically-competent former head of the Patent Office
and Special Master in this case, William Schuyler, said that a patent
should be issued and in light of Judge Jackson's refusal to follow federal
law with respect to the findings of such a Special Master, I believe
Congress should step in and grant the patent; then the people can decide if
it actually works."

Congressman Wayne Dowdy said that "No one should have to endure the
treatment Joseph Newman has undergone at the hands of the United States
Patent and Trademark Office (PTO).  Instead of promoting Joseph Newman's
invention, the PTO has spent thousands of dollars to thwart him.  Joseph
Newman has submitted an impressive list of experts who substantiate his
claims.  On the other hand, tests conducted by the PTO have cast more doubt
on its methods than on the effectiveness of Mr. Newman's machine.
Furthermore, IF THE PTO DENIES THIS COUNTRY THE BENEFITS OF WHAT COULD BE A
REVOLUTIONARY ENERGY DEVICE, THEN IT OBSTINACY WOULD, IN MY MIND, BE
CRIMINAL."

Of the actions by the Executive (PTO/President Reagan), Judicial (Federal
Judge Jackson), and Legislative (Rep. Robert Kastenmeier) Branches of
government, Congressman Robert Torricelli went so far as to state that
"This is the greatest conspiracy against any one individual in the history
of humanity."

>From the very beginning, Joseph Newman has asked only for the equal
opportunity to present his invention in the marketplace with patent
protection, despite the fact that Mr. Charles H. Duell, Director of the
Patent Office, declared in 1899 that, "Everything that can be invented has
been invented."


Murray -- going back to your original question:  "What can I do?"

PLEASE, write your Congressmen and Senators and ask them to introduce new
Private Relief Bills for Joseph Newman --- since Kastenmeier is out of the
picture we have a fresh shot at this!!!  You can even make their job easy
for them by sending them a copy of the exact wording of the original eleven
Bills.  And I will be happy to mail/fax a copy of one of the Bills to
anyone requesting same (or, better yet, sent it in gif format).

The following is the original wording of the Eleven different Congressional
Private Relief Bills:

*****************************************************************
"A BILL For the relief of Joseph W. Newman.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of Commerce,
acting through the Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks, is authorized
and directed to immediately issue a pioneer patent to Joseph W. Newman for
the invention described in the patent application numbered 179,474 and
filed in August 1980.  Such patent shall be accorded rights equal to the
rights accorded to patents issued title 35, United States Code.
*****************************************************************

Thanks for your support!!!!!

Sincerely,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman@earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 12:29:30 1997
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From: dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca (Dwayne Trynchuk)
Subject: Magnetic Shielding
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Hi all,

  Does anyone know of any methods to effectively shield one of the poles on
a magnet while still keeping the other pole open?


Thanks,

Dwayne Trynchuk
dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 14:17:29 1997
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On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Dwayne Trynchuk wrote:

> 
> Hi all,
> 
>   Does anyone know of any methods to effectively shield one of the poles on
> a magnet while still keeping the other pole open?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... I would venture a guess that some sort of mini
faraday cage that's well grounded *may* help.
John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 15:33:42 1997
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Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:58:24 -0800
From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller)
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Now, I have never seen a microwave lawnmower work, and can offer 
no opinion on whether they do. But there is an interesting 
possibility.

I have heard of, but have not researched "atomic hydrogen
torches," and "atomic nitrogen torches."  Apparently, both
use a magnetron to dissociate molecular hydrogen or
nitrogen into single atoms. Then the atomic H or N is
immediately recombined into molecules, H2 or N2, releasing
high temperature heat. 

Is it inconceivable that a magnetron in a spark plug
hole, timed to the rotational speed of the motor, might,
just might, hit on the frequency which dissociates 
water, or O2, or N2, or ???  Or that the dissociated
atoms could recombine, with enough heat to expand the other 
gassses present?

On the other hand, Your average kitchen microwave oven
is very good at exciting water molecules, to the point
of vaporization. Is it too rediculous to think it might,
just might, be possible for the same magnetron, to vaporize
a little bit of water sprayed into a cylinder??

For that matter, has anyone tested a normal microwave oven
for efficiency at boiling water? 

I don't know, nor can I do the experiments, but it seems
that we are missing a good bet, if this is ignored.

Tom Miller

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 17:21:12 1997
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> >   Does anyone know of any methods to effectively shield one of the poles on
> > a magnet while still keeping the other pole open?
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... I would venture a guess that some sort of mini
> faraday cage that's well grounded *may* help.
> John
> 

The only way I know of to sheild part of a magnet is to use 
superconductors.  Of course everyone is aware of the problems with 
that approace (i.e. liquid nitrogen) 


Brent Davidson (davidson@vvm.com)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 17:32:45 1997
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Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding
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>
>
>
>
>On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Dwayne Trynchuk wrote:
>
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>>   Does anyone know of any methods to effectively shield one of the poles on
>> a magnet while still keeping the other pole open?
>Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... I would venture a guess that some sort of mini
>faraday cage that's well grounded *may* help.
>John
>
>
>Hi John,

  Can you tell me more about this Faraday cage?

Thanks,

Dwayne
dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 18:59:01 1997
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Message-ID: <332B6312.463@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 12:33:46 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Brent Davidson wrote:
> 
> > >   Does anyone know of any methods to effectively shield one of the poles on
> > > a magnet while still keeping the other pole open?
> > Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... I would venture a guess that some sort of mini
> > faraday cage that's well grounded *may* help.
> > John
> >
> 
> The only way I know of to sheild part of a magnet is to use
> superconductors.  Of course everyone is aware of the problems with
> that approace (i.e. liquid nitrogen)
> 
> Brent Davidson (davidson@vvm.com)

Hi Guys,

This really can't be done.  It goes back to my magnetic monopole
discussions.  Remember, magnets are composed of many billions of
individual magnetic domains.  Each generates its own self contained
magnetic field.  The flux from each domain will always find a path back
to the other side of its self.  If for some reason it could not do this,
there would be no flux.

In my example of a magnetic monopole, I showed that NO flux would emerge
from a magnetic sphere constructed from many segments as the domains on
the surface would shunt their flux back on themselves.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 19:27:19 1997
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: Siberian Colui (SP?)
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At 07:56 AM 3/15/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Fellow searchers;
>
>I have something that I want to sell, I trust it won't offend anyone by
>advertising it to you all as it is of direct interest to F/E ers.
>
>It is a Siberian Colui tube, made of pyrex tube, 5/8" diam. is filled with
>Argon. For those who might not know what it is it is a cirlce of tubing
>approx. 4" in diameter. it has four electrodes each placed 90% appart.
>Beautifully made. I also have a set of ceramic magnets cut the recommended
>way (in half).
>
>I would like to get $75 including UPS to you. Thanks kindly, Byrun. (604)
>524-4062, byrun_fox@mindlink.bc.ca
>>
>
>
>Interested maybe but whats it supposed to do
Geoff
http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 19:36:14 1997
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Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 22:13:39 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com (David DeLeo)
Subject: Bearden and capacitors
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Does anyone know what has become of Tom Bearden's idea of using a step
charged capacitor as an o/u device. (Outlined in his final secret of free
energy paper)
http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/free/bearden1.html
http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/free/bearden2.html (this one discusses the
caps)
(I also have the articles he refers to in gif form if anyone is interested)
F. Heinrich, "Entropy change when charging a capacitor:  A demonstration
experiment," Am. J. Phys. 54, 742-744 (1986)
                        and
I. Fundaun, C. Reese, and H. H. Soonpaa, "Charging a capacitor," Am. J.
Phys. 60(11), 1047-1048 (1992)


These basicaly show that by charging a cap to a final voltage in equal
steps, the energy disipated will be inversely proportional to the number of
steps (ie: as the number of steps tends to infinity the energy disipated
will tend to 0)

Has anyone tried this or heard anything about it since Bearden's paper from
1994?

Dave DeLeo
ddeleo@ix.netcom.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 19:59:03 1997
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: RE: Interesting OU? Patents
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At 09:07 PM 3/15/97 +1100, you wrote:
>
>
>
>And remember the universal answer to life, the universe, and everything 
>
>I though the answer to this was 42 as found out by
the deep thought computer" A hitch hikers guide to Galaxy" BBC TV

Geoff
Http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 23:31:13 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Bob Shannon wrote:
[snip]
>Once we wind a wire into a coil, and produce the macropole of a magnet,
>we have added some form of substructure to the field, and it no longer
>undergoes vector superposition.
>
>The field around a staight conductor has not yet had this substructure
>infolded, and will undergo vector superposition, which is why we can
>make the macropole by winding the coil.
>
>So maybe not all flux is created equal?
[snip]

So if there _is_ a difference in the properties of the fields, has this =
been taken into account in the simulation software that Greg uses? For =
instance, in simulating what's going on in a bifilar coil?


and Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
[snip]
>...the simulations that Greg did of the magnetic field around a bifilar =
coil.=20
[snip]

I missed those simulations... still around somewhere? Would sure like to =
see that. There's something about the bifilar that grabs my intuitive =
sense that something unobvious is going on.


Dan Quickert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 00:25:07 1997
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From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
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>
>> > > asking you about the lawn mower that ran on water.  I was just
>> > > wondering if you ever recieved that message since I never heard 
>
>you guys better get real!! did you ever consider what the by products or
>waste would be from this supposed lawnmower that runs on water?? Would
>that be steam? or simply H2 and O2?
>Whoever says they have an engine that runs on water is a charlatain.
>If a lawnmower, why not a car, why not an electric plant, hey, why not
>power the whole world on simple water that will run a lawnmower??
>I've got far better plans and drawings that enable you to run an
>outboard motor on thin air--amazing eh?  If you'd like a copy of these
>plans just send me 5 back issues of Hustler Magazine and a bag of
>cornchips!
>
>cheers,
>
>Scarry Larry
>
>

Who let this guy on the discussion group?

Zack


--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 00:51:13 1997
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On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Tom Miller wrote:

> 
> Now, I have never seen a microwave lawnmower work, and can offer 
> no opinion on whether they do. But there is an interesting 
> is very good at exciting water molecules, to the point
> of vaporization. Is it too rediculous to think it might,
> just might, be possible for the same magnetron, to vaporize
> a little bit of water sprayed into a cylinder??
I've always theorised that possibly exciting the water, somehow, with a
1420 Mhz signal *may* aid in the speedy vapourisation of the water. I
suggest this frequency because it's the frequency that hydrogen resonates
at. Thanx to a side interest in SETI for that knowledge. :)
 > For that matter, has anyone tested a
normal microwave oven > for efficiency at boiling water? 
I remember seeing an experiment on tv where a person put a small quantity
of water in to a plastic film cannister, and nuked it for a second or two.
The top blew off the cannister. This doesn't quantify precisely the oven's
efficiency, but if one knew the wattage, time, and quantity of water,
perhaps some measurement could be worked out.
John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 01:31:56 1997
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From: "John R. Tooker" <jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
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> >Hi John,
> 
>   Can you tell me more about this Faraday cage?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dwayne
> dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca
Hi Dwayne. :)
Simply put, a Faraday cage, invented by Mr. Faraday, is a simple metal
cage that is well grounded. The grounded metal prevents any
conventional magnetic fields getting in or out of the enclosed area. 
Any sort of *metal* mesh, such as chicken wire or window screening, built
to fit the item or device you wish to enclose will work. Grounding it to a
*cold* waterpipe, or similar, will usually suffice.
Hope this helps. :)
John


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 01:44:40 1997
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John R. Tooker wrote:
> 
> > >Hi John,
> >
> >   Can you tell me more about this Faraday cage?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dwayne
> > dtrynchu@compusmart.ab.ca
> Hi Dwayne. :)
> Simply put, a Faraday cage, invented by Mr. Faraday, is a simple metal
> cage that is well grounded. The grounded metal prevents any
> conventional magnetic fields getting in or out of the enclosed area.
> Any sort of *metal* mesh, such as chicken wire or window screening, built
> to fit the item or device you wish to enclose will work. Grounding it to a
> *cold* waterpipe, or similar, will usually suffice.
> Hope this helps. :)
> John

Had to set you straight on this one.  A faraday cage will shield against
electric fields or electromagnetic fields (time varying) within a
certain frequency range, but not magnetic fields.

-- 
Phil Gantt
http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html (updated 3/8/97)
http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/Dove/intro.html -- Nikola Tesla Page
http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/aumru/intro.html -- Temple Aum Ru
http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/light/lop1.html -- Light on the Path

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 01:54:20 1997
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From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
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>
>At 09:07 PM 3/15/97 +1100, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>And remember the universal answer to life, the universe, and everything 
>>
>>I though the answer to this was 42 as found out by
>the deep thought computer" A hitch hikers guide to Galaxy" BBC TV
>
>Geoff
>Http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel
>>

No ... it was "We apologize for the inconvenience" (in Life, The Universe 
and Everything).        :-)

Zack


--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 02:10:59 1997
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From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
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>
>
>
>
>
>On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Dwayne Trynchuk wrote:
>
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>>   Does anyone know of any methods to effectively shield one of the poles on
>> a magnet while still keeping the other pole open?
>Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... I would venture a guess that some sort of mini
>faraday cage that's well grounded *may* help.
>John
>
>

I myself don't know how to do it. If you can, you have effectively 
created a magnetic monopole.

There were rumors of work on a project at Fermilab to generate a magnetic 
monopole some years ago. I don't know if anything came of it.

Did anyone else ever hear of this?

Zack


--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 02:35:49 1997
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To: Phil Gantt <pgantt@ix.netcom.com>
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> 
> Had to set you straight on this one.  A faraday cage will shield against
> electric fields or electromagnetic fields (time varying) within a
> certain frequency range, but not magnetic fields.
> 
Heh..... must be the Alzheimers creeping up un me... :) Thanks for
pointing that out. I thought I forgot something.....
John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 02:39:52 1997
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Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> Bob Shannon wrote:
> [snip]
> >Once we wind a wire into a coil, and produce the macropole of a magnet,
> >we have added some form of substructure to the field, and it no longer
> >undergoes vector superposition.
> >
> >The field around a staight conductor has not yet had this substructure
> >infolded, and will undergo vector superposition, which is why we can
> >make the macropole by winding the coil.
> >
> >So maybe not all flux is created equal?
> [snip]
> 
> So if there _is_ a difference in the properties of the fields, has this been taken into account in the simulation software that Greg uses? For instance, in simulating what's going on in a bifilar coil?
> 
> and Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> [snip]
> >...the simulations that Greg did of the magnetic field around a bifilar coil.
> [snip]
> 
> I missed those simulations... still around somewhere? Would sure like to see that. There's something about the bifilar that grabs my intuitive sense that something unobvious is going on.
> 
> Dan Quickert

Hi Dan,

Gifs attached.  

First is of Bifiliar coil, second is of normal coil.  

I do not believe that magnetic fields undergo destructive combination. 
Instead the fields exist and overlap with each other quite happily.  The
problem arrises when we try to measure the field density with probes of
finite size.  The probes will measure the vector sum of the fields, even
though the fields have not been summed.  The observer effect will always
get us.

This effect drives ferromagnetic domain rotation and alignment as the
fields have no real size, but the domains do have finite size and will
align to the vector sum of the fields passing through and near to them. 
The effect is the same as if the fields are destructive summing, but
this is a effect of finite domain or probe size only and not the actual
reality.

The fields exist quite happily along side each other.  Its just us
finite humans which can't accept that.

The Qfield sims show this.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 02:44:56 1997
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Zack Widup wrote:
> 
> >
> >At 09:07 PM 3/15/97 +1100, you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>And remember the universal answer to life, the universe, and everything
> >>
> >>I though the answer to this was 42 as found out by
> >the deep thought computer" A hitch hikers guide to Galaxy" BBC TV
> >
> >Geoff
> >Http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel
> >>
> 
> No ... it was "We apologize for the inconvenience" (in Life, The Universe
> and Everything).        :-)
> 
> Zack
> 
> --

Hi Zack,

That was God's last statement to mankind, I seem to remember.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 02:52:53 1997
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Zack Widup wrote:
> 
> >
> >> > > asking you about the lawn mower that ran on water.  I was just
> >> > > wondering if you ever recieved that message since I never heard
> >
> >you guys better get real!! did you ever consider what the by products or
> >waste would be from this supposed lawnmower that runs on water?? Would
> >that be steam? or simply H2 and O2?
> >Whoever says they have an engine that runs on water is a charlatain.
> >If a lawnmower, why not a car, why not an electric plant, hey, why not
> >power the whole world on simple water that will run a lawnmower??
> >I've got far better plans and drawings that enable you to run an
> >outboard motor on thin air--amazing eh?  If you'd like a copy of these
> >plans just send me 5 back issues of Hustler Magazine and a bag of
> >cornchips!
> >
> >cheers,
> >
> >Scarry Larry
> >
> >
> 
> Who let this guy on the discussion group?
> 
> Zack
> 
> --

Hi Zack,

All comments have value.  Some positive, some negative.  If we wish to
progress, we must accept all comments.  It is only by the sum of all
human expression that we can progress.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 05:44:17 1997
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From: Tixif@aol.com
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 08:20:36 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding (john)
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In a message dated 97-03-16 04:20:03 EST, you write:

<< Faraday cage, invented by Mr. Faraday, is a simple metal
 cage that is well grounded. The grounded metal prevents any
 conventional magnetic fields getting in or out of the enclosed area. 
 Any sort of *metal* mesh, such as chicken wire or window screening, built
 to fit the item or device you wish to enclose will work. Grounding it to a
 *cold* waterpipe, or similar, will usually suffice.
 Hope this helps. :)
 John >>

John,

This is interesting as I'm fairly new to the group and try to use most of my
mebership time learning.  I had started a thread with questions about the
contiguous B field around straight conductor vs. perm. mags.  While I'm
trying mot to rehash issues put to bed by the group, I did get some insight
from Bob shannon and Greg Watson; but am building some experiments of my own
to test some ideas.  I would also like to ask a question of your suggestion
on the faraday cage.

The question had been posed about shielding one pole and not the other.  As
Faradaya law s relate to induction,  what am I missing in the application of
the cage? ie: Some metal mesh (assuming here metal = ferromagnetic material)
around the pole and connected to ground.  "Connected to ground" implies a
current induced and carried to ground.  What anomoly here is inducing current
in a fived conductor relative to the pole?

Any input or a suggested path in the archives is appreciated.

Shawn

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subscribe

 * Q-Blue 2.2 [NR] *  Do you even know WHAT your children are?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 10:59:13 1997
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From: Hawkeye <havveye@execpc.com>
To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Interesting OU? Patents
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The answer was 42 but the question was 9 times 6, but of course that is a bit off.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 11:02:09 1997
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"We apologize for the inconvenience" (in Life, The Universe 
and Everything).        :-) That was God's last words to his creation. (Right before he went up in a puff of logic.)

Anyone know when the 6th book in the trillogy will come out?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 11:08:24 1997
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Subject: A book for all:
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 12:25:29 -0600
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Has anyone read:
"The Coming Energy Revolution"

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 11:14:41 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 10:32:37 -0800
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John Tooker wrote:
<snip>
>I remember seeing an experiment on tv where a person put a small =
quantity
>of water in to a plastic film cannister, and nuked it for a second or =
two.
>The top blew off the cannister. This doesn't quantify precisely the =
oven's
>efficiency, but if one knew the wattage, time, and quantity of water,
>perhaps some measurement could be worked out.
>John

Well, perhaps the explosive potential in a microwave could be used...
My first experience with a microwave oven was at a new job, there was =
one in the break room. Thought it would be a neat way to cook an egg - =
in the shell. Then something deep inside told me to back away. =
Fortunately I put the egg in a covered glass dish. Unfortunately it blew =
the cover off the dish and also violently removed the oven's door. =
Definitely my first overunity experience - free energy but no free =
lunch.
So, maybe we could power lawn mowers by microwaving eggs? ;-)

Dan Quickert

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 11:21:10 1997
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From: Hawkeye <havveye@execpc.com>
To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: With a little help.......
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 12:33:12 -0600
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Last time I checked I had everything for the H2O lawn mowwer except the =
strobe. With a little help to find a strobe and build the H2O Lawn =
mowwer, tests could be started on how efficient such a mowwer would be. 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 11:51:49 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: room-temperature superconductors
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Hello John,

   The superconductor patent you're looking for is #4,325,795, "Process For
Forming Ambient Temperature Superconducting Filaments"

Good luck!
           Fred

P.S more posts to follow on other subjects

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 13:49:02 1997
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:05:40 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding
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One needs to remember the Maxwell equation that says the divergence of B is
always zero.  This means all the lines of B that leave one end (pole) of the
magnet eventually reenter somewhere on the other end.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 14:06:25 1997
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:26:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970316162603_1949039509@emout19.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, tom@gorge.net
Subject: Re: Interesting OU? Patents
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Just a simple observation that using a magnetron to generate microwaves to
heat (or whatever) water to use the water (heat or expansion) to power a
motor of some kind makes very little sense.  If you have the electrical power
to run the magnetron use it to power an electric motor instead.  The
efficiency will be much higher.  (Putting a small amount of energy into the
water, by microwaves or whatever, and getting a large amount out
------unfortunately does not seem to work)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 15:00:04 1997
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Message-ID: <332C9185.A1@keelynet.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:34:13 -0800
From: Jerry Decker <jdecker@keelynet.com>
Organization: KeelyNet
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Room Temp. Superconductors
References: <Pine.A32.3.93.970314151829.68332B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
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Hi Guys!  I don't have the patent number handy but the guys name was 
BOUGON or BOURGON...it dealt with very fine bismuth fibers as room temp 
superconducors....if I find the number before anyone else posts it, I'll 
send it on...
-- 
               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 15:51:02 1997
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From: "steve pelet" <stevepel@axs2000.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: More Hamel Spinning Tops
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:34:38 -0500
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i CAN'T FIND THE LARGER MAGNET for the top it's extremly large does anyone no where i can get it


thanks

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 16:17:48 1997
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From: Hawkeye <havveye@execpc.com>
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Subject: LARGE FILE!!!!
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:43:54 -0600
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I Have a large ZIP file full of nice text articles. I do not remember where I got it, but I shall be sending parts of it to you. 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 16:24:21 1997
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From: Hawkeye <havveye@execpc.com>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Room Temp. Superconductors
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:02:02 -0600
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http://www.dnai.com/~zap/files001.html
AND:
http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/free.html

are great sites to check out.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 16:24:42 1997
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Message-ID: <332C7F81.31BD@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 13:17:28 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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Fred Epps wrote:


>    The superconductor patent you're looking for is #4,325,795, "Process For
> Forming Ambient Temperature Superconducting Filaments"


Thanks Fred! There it was on the IBM server, all pages & details. 

How do you think is it that this could really work and yet it isn't well
known or in application somewhere?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 16:34:52 1997
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Message-ID: <332C47BA.50E1@tiac.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:19:22 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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Subject: Re: OU Coils
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Greg Watson wrote:

> What, didn't you read the Ferrite rod & Coil discussion.

Many read it, but few seem to buy it as being OU.

> A demo is simple.  Apply current to an air cored solenoid,  Allow a
> ferrite rod to be attracted into the centre of the col and watch coil
> current drop as the rod is accelerated into the centre.  Current drops,
> rod gains kinetic energy.  OU?

Current drops as the inductance increases, which is conventional

The core is attracted, and work is done by the energy being fed into the
coil, which is again, conventional.

To have evidence of OU operation, in this all too common configuration,
we would have to show that the current drops faster than the inductance
is raised, which does not seem very practical (as inductance is measured
by that same drop in current!) AND that the work done in the
acceleration of the core is greater than the energy delivered from the
source of current applied to the coil.

If we retard the core, the inductance does not increase as fast, and
current does not fall as fast, in what so far appears to be prefect
accordance with conventional (under unity) theory.  If the core is not
accelerated by the field (is fixed) then the current does not drop in
any way other than that expected when a voltage is applied to a coil (of
given inductance), air core or otherwise.

Accurately measuring the change in inductance, and energy taken from the
current source to accelerate the core is not trivial, as we have second
and higher order (conventional) interactions.  This might be easier in
microgravity however.

We might produce a graph showing the inductance of the coil with the
core fixed at a number of points in it's approach, then graph the
current through the coil as the core is dymanically attracted, and look
to see if that current graph is higher or lower than the first graph
(with the core fixed at intervals along the path of approach).   If it's
higher, then the current source is delivering energy to the approaching
core.  

Now we need to know if the energy of acceleration is greater than the
additional energy in the higher current draw (of the still dropping
current, due to the change in inductance) than shown in the first,
referance graph.

Only then, if the acceleration energy is higher than the additional
energy in the second graph (it will be higher) can we begin to think
that there may be an unseen source of energy at work on the core.

So what evidence exists that somthing unknown is going to convert mass
into additional energy (in apparent violation of well tested and
verified laws of physics) by 'direct nuclear magnetic conversion'?

Is it possible that shorting the coil causes more flux change outside
the ferrite, so that less energy is used in moving the magnetic domains,
and therefore less current is drawn, or something along these
(conventional) lines?

Some claimed over unity devices have shown a drop in supply current as
the load applied to the device is raised, but were still under unity in
operation, becuase once the load fell below some given resistance, the
supply current would again raise in response.  (Usually where large AC
power factors are envolved.)

So a drop in current drawn in response to an increase in load current
alone is not evidence for the possiblity of over-unity operation.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 16:42:33 1997
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American Science and surplus?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 17:09:43 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:29:55 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> Bob Shannon wrote:
> [snip]
> >Once we wind a wire into a coil, and produce the macropole of a magnet,
> >we have added some form of substructure to the field, and it no longer
> >undergoes vector superposition.
> >
> >The field around a staight conductor has not yet had this substructure
> >infolded, and will undergo vector superposition, which is why we can
> >make the macropole by winding the coil.
> >
> >So maybe not all flux is created equal?
> [snip]
> 
> So if there _is_ a difference in the properties of the fields, has this been taken into account in the simulation software that Greg uses? For instance, in simulating what's going on in a bifilar coil?

I dont think so, unless this difference is fully described by the curl
of the field, which is described by conventional theory.  Anything
beyond that would appear to be outside conventional theory.

<snip>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 18:08:18 1997
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From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A book for all:
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:20:44 -0500
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In article <01BC3207.A7AB1BE0@noise-unit.execpc.com>, you wrote:
>Has anyone read:
>"The Coming Energy Revolution"

I have.  Its worth the read.

-- 
Check out http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock for information on any of
the following: Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain
Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full
Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA,
Philadelphia Experiment.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 18:42:02 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:19:58 +1000 (EST)
From: Max Liftoff <max@triode.net.au>
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On Sun, 16 Mar 1997, Greg Watson wrote:
> What, didn't you read the Ferrite rod & Coil discussion.

Uhhh. How could I miss it?
I think i'm referring here to coils with no moving parts - a distinct
advantage over the 'steam' counterparts being ruminated here.

> 
> A demo is simple.  Apply current to an air cored solenoid,  Allow a
> ferrite rod to be attracted into the centre of the col and watch coil
> current drop as the rod is accelerated into the centre.  Current drops,
> rod gains kinetic energy.  OU?

I'm still waiting for key papers on this before forming any
conclusions.

Current drops because inductance has increased causing a voltage across
coil according to V = Ldi/dt + IdL/dt. total Energy = .5 L i^2 + .5 m
v^2

Maxwell.

PS: any news on the flashguns?



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 18:58:43 1997
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Greg Watson wrote:

> I do not believe that magnetic fields undergo destructive combination.
> Instead the fields exist and overlap with each other quite happily.  The
> problem arrises when we try to measure the field density with probes of
> finite size.  The probes will measure the vector sum of the fields, even
> though the fields have not been summed.  The observer effect will always
> get us.
 
Greg, if this were true, why then can we not store any energy in these
fields when opposed?  If the inductance of a well made bifilar coil is
near zero, where are these fields and their stored energy?

This does not appear to make any sense in light of emperical data.  Can
you shed some more light on this interpretation?

What about your posts on the significance of the flux summing as being
significant to your Direct Nuclear Magnetic Conversion process?  This
was specifically mentioned in situations where the flux would not escape
the better conduction path offered by the ferrite, etc.  I'm confused
about your point of view in these matters, as different elements of your
postings appear mutually contradictory, and at odds with experimental
reality.

> This effect drives ferromagnetic domain rotation and alignment as the
> fields have no real size, but the domains do have finite size and will
> align to the vector sum of the fields passing through and near to them.
> The effect is the same as if the fields are destructive summing, but
> this is a effect of finite domain or probe size only and not the actual
> reality.

Again, if this were the case, why is there no energy stored in these
fields, and far lower inductance (nearly zero in fact!) ?  

Further, as there is no stored energy, where do these fields come from
Greg?
What you suggest is far removed from conventional theory in this
respect.

> The fields exist quite happily along side each other.  Its just us
> finite humans which can't accept that.
> 
> The Qfield sims show this.

I disagree.  The Qfield sims I have seen do not correctly depict the
bifilar case at all.  This was pointed out long ago on this forum when
you first posted a simulation of the bifilar case.

Please explain how Qfield can show fields in actual cases where there is
no stored energy in the bifilar coil?

Qfield is a very valuable tool, but like any tool, it can be misused.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 18:59:08 1997
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john1 wrote:
> 
> Bob
> I have studied the page you sent Me to on remakes of my tuners. In answer
> to what I think These tuners Have some major problems I can understand why
> you can not measure the CD unit, or detect a standing Scalar wave. 

Slow down John, it can and does detect scalar standing waves, but I
think we are having a little problem with terminology here.  

A standing wave is the product on the interference of two or more
traveling waves. This is not the same thing as a static field.  If we
looked into the substructure of a standing wave, we might see a bell
curve like distribution of energy, and that energy is AC, so the effect
is rather like an audio envelope, a lump of AC.

A field is quite different, we may see the same bell curve like
distribution of energy, but that energy itself is static.  

When two magnets are placed together in opposition, you might expect to
have a scalar field, rather than a standing wave (No change in
potentials, so the result is static (field-like) rather than dynamic
(wave-like).

To answer the question you asked in your last email, when we place two
magnets in opposition, we do not produce a standing scalar wave, as we
have no change in opposed potentials.  We also do not have a scalar
field.  To produce a scalar, we need to sum fields to zero.  This does
not happen between opposed magnets.  The very small zero field area is
due to the fact that the fields have distorted their shape to adviod
destructive interference.

So there is no cancellation of flux what so ever, and no summing to
zero, so no scalar production.  The potentials of the magnets if fully
expressed as a vector magnetic field, not as a scalar field.

> The
> metal strip you talk about is nothing infect it is very limited, the
> concept comes from a book that Bob Beck released called Magnetic Mood
> Pacers this piece of metal was used by Beck and Dr.Ludwick of Germany to
> Produce H Vector Waves for mind Control, 

Incorrect John.  The function of the metal strip is fully described in
the article, which is seems you have not fully read.

The strip of material is specially selected for a specific structure of
defects and inclusions that make the Barkhausen Effect very promenent in
the sample.

The use of the Barkhausen Effect allows the detection of far smaller
changes in the flux of the sheilded magnet than is possible by magnetic
induction, and with far lower gain in the amplifiers.  Read the article
John.

> IM not the kind of person that
> is going to Play Mental Masturbation with you, I will cut it to the Quick
> very Quickly with what I have seen so far.
> The Tuners on that page are all limited in Bandwidth and a major problem is
> in 1/f noise, can give you false triggering, also known as pop-corn noise,
> The Fet is not a good one either, and the 2n2222 leaves something to be
> desired. I think you Know all of this but have done nothing about it.

These devices are not "tuners" at all, there is a major diffference in
their operation from your "tuner" due to the application of the
Barkhausen effect to produce a far more sensitive detector with lower
amplifier gain, and a far smaller magnet and sheilding, as described in
the article.  

The current induced in the coil by Barkhausen Effect domain transitions
is quite distinct from 1/f noise or popcorn noise.  Simply shorting the
detector coil will completely change the detectors output signal, it
will nearly completely dissappear!  The magnetic domain transitions are
orders of magnatude higher in amplitude than the amplifier noise is.

For this reason, the jfet and 2n2222 more than adequate noise figures
for the signal levels present in the circuit.  

If your not the kind of person to play at "Mental Masterbation: with me,
they why do you assume that the design is so very flawed before you
understand it's operation?  Please John, check your facts before you
make assumptions like this, you are quite incorrect here.

I suggest that you read the Feynman Lectures on Physics for an excellent
discussion of the Barkhausen Effect, which is critical to the operation
of the detector.

> The
> cavity should be
> 1/4" thick copper box tuned to the tuner itself. Your tuner should Detect
> A spider walking on your work bench, A Quartz clock from across the room, A
> wooden windmill and give you the rotation of the blades as it causes a
> stress in the vanes. These are simple things so if you cant do that, your
> tuner needs to be redesigned, Flying is one other thing, the tuner should
> pick up the propeller, and should cancel out all Geo-Magnetic Earth fields,

The alloy used in the detector casting is superior than copper in it's
sheilding abilities. 

Why should the detector respond to a spider across the room, or a
clock?  There are many local sources of scalar emission that are
stronger than a spider's, or a clocks emissions.

Again, please understand the design before you decide that it's flawed.

The Barkhausen Effect detector is not so microphonic that is cannot be
used aboard a small aircraft, which by the way, can produce local
gravitational fields in excess of 1g. ( a co-ordinated, 60 degree banked
turn produced a constant 2 g field within the aircraft, which is
detectable. )  Again, you assume a lot without having built or tested
the design.  This is very bad science John.

> The tuner should have a Bandwidth from .01 to Light and to change Frequency
> the proper filters are switched in. and the meter should give you the
> amount of Scalar stress In a Differential output and not spikes on a scope
> along with the noise.

A bandwidth from .01 hz to light eh?  Sure.  I do have over 12 original
detector designs, many of which are variable in frequancy and linear in
response.  The Barkhausen effect detector deliberately trades off
linearity and tuneability for high sensitivity with a far smaller
magnetic field than if magnetic induction were to be used as in the
"Dea/Faretto" design (which you claim to be your own).

The specific design tradeoffs made in the design of the Barkhausen
Effect detector are descussed in detail in the article.

> Also you should detect the stress from Quake Lights as this is like a big
> crystal that has been stressed,
> another thing your tuner should do, detect birds flying up to a high
> voltage wire.

Indeed it does detect a host of natural scalar signals and artificial
scalar transmissions.  It does not detect birds flying up to a high
voltage wire, as once again, the potentials are not changing in equal
opposition summing to zero, and are fully expressed as a vector
electrostatic field, just as described by the formulas given by Bearden
and Whittaker.

> Bob it's time to show us what you call Scalar in the special circuits you
> have designed. Let all the People Check them out, Put a Page on there like
> I did and Decker did. I say show us what you got!!!

John, who do you refer to by "time to show US what..."?  You have been
looking at a design I placed on a web page.  What gives here, it's
already been posted?

> John Bedini

You seem to expect a scalar standing wave to be produced by magnet poles
in opposition, when there is no potential in opposition, and they are
unchaging.

According to Bearden and Whittakers work, no scalar production is
expected to occure under these contitions.  Why do you claim that there
should be?  I'd like to understand the differences in our perspective
here.

You claim that the use of the metal strip in the Barkhausen Effect
detector is "nothing" which shows you do not yet understand the function
of the Barkhausen Effect in the design.  You also claim that it is based
on the work of Beck and Ludwick, which is totaly incorrect.  It does not
produce H vector waves in this design at all.

Have you read the whole article, or just read a few parts of it, or
looked at the diagrams?  Why do you assume that the use of the strip is
taken from Beck and Ludwick without first understanding the function of
the Barkhausen Effect in the first place?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 19:06:48 1997
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Hi Folks:

You can't imagine what it's like to not have access to your computer all
week, come home and find such a motherlode of interesting email. You're
swamping my brain with input!
This will be a long post, needless to say.

   1) The Tolman effect: Bob Shannon is correct, the rotating disc must be
accelerating or decelerating for the effect to occur. Steady rotation of a
disc does not generate a voltage, at least not from the Tolman effect. The
simple analogy is spinning a bucket full of water (Newton's inertia
experiment)- at first the water moves relative to the bucket, then the water
is in a steady state with the bucket, then when the bucket is slowed down
the water again moves relative to the bucket. 
   There IS an electrical effect from steady rotation, called the Blackett
or gravitomagnetic effect (1), which actually involves CHARGE CREATION
during rotation. The Blackett effect says that a rotating mass has a
magnetic moment much like a rotating charge. The effect was hypothesized
from cosmological considerations back in the thirties. A linear relation was
noticed between the angular momentum and magnetic moment of nearly all space
objects, from moons to galaxies, even where there was no possibility of an
interior dynamo (the only exception was Mars!). It was theorized that this
effect would show up as a potential difference between the center and
periphery  of a rotating object- a VERY small effect. The effect is not
electromagnetic or electrostatic, it's the same for conductors and
nonconductors. Blackett attempted to find this effect on a very large
charge-neutral copper cylinder rotating with the Earth. Results were
negative. Two researchers, Reginald Gray (2) and James Woodward (3) found
this effect in the 80's but were ignored. They were ignored because their
experiments clearly showed NONCONSERVATION OF CHARGE. In particular
Woodward's experiments were classic and well-designed. He spun little
nonconducting cylinders and measured the existence of charge in the chamber
which had not been there before. 
   (As an aside, there is also a peculiar relationship between the angular
momentum and mass of space objects: J=pM2 where J is angular momentum, M is
mass and p is an empirically determined constant (about 8 x 10-16 g-1 cm-2
sec-1). It has been theorized that this is a unification constant for
gravity and EM (4). There's a lot more I could say about this, centrifugal
force, and other related topics. I have several hundred pages of material
like this on the peculiarities of spinning systems. 

   2) There is an effect called the Corbino effect (5) which might serve as
the basis for a working device along these lines. The Hall effect is a
subtype of the Corbino effect, but since the Corbino effect SEEMED to have
no practical usage it has been more or less forgotten. Actually, Corbino
observed three effects which bear his name, all based on the simple
principle that electrons that are exposed to both electric and magnetic
fields will move at right angles to the direction of both fields. I'll call
these effects C-1, C-2, and C-3.
   C-1: Picture a metallic disc in a perpendicular magnetic field. There is
a narrow wedge cut out of the disc with thick wires attached. If a current
is sent through these wires, ANOTHER CURRENT flows radially from the center
to the periphery. Conversely, if a current is sent from the center radially
to the periphery, another current flows axially around the disc, which can
be tapped by the wires in the wedge. The effect also occurs if the current
is sent from the periphery to the center-- no difference.
   C-2: Picture a disc that is free to rotate. A magnet is at a 45 degree
angle to the surface of the disc. If a current is sent radially from the
center of the disc to the periphery, THE DISC WILL ROTATE. The torque is
very small. There is another version of this experiment where a zinc plate
with one side coated with paraffin is put into a copper sulfate solution and
put in an oblique magnetic field. The disc will also rotate in this
situation because the ions operate in the same manner as electrons.
   C-3: See our disc again with wires attached to the center and periphery
and no wedge cut out. Now the permanent magnet has been replaced by an
electromagnet. A RADIAL CURRENT WILL FLOW if the field of the electromagnet
is varied. This current is not the result of electromagnetic induction. This
effect is of smaller magnitude than the other two effects.
   The formula for calculating the C-1 Corbino current is

I(c)= -(E/2pi)HI log(r2/r1) where

I(c)= Corbino current (A)
E= Corbino constant (for Bi it's -10.9 x10-5 at .08 T.)
H= field intensity (T)
I= supply current (A)
r2,r1= outside and inside radii of disc (m)  

  The effects DECREASE in fields higher than 800 gauss with Bismuth. Unlike
the Hall effect, the Corbino effects work better with metals than
semiconductors and it's not necessary to use thin films (magnitude of Hall
effect is inversely proportional to the thickness of film).  
   The resistive losses from the supply current passing through the disc are
always greater than the work gained by movement of charge from center to
periphery so C-1 can't be used for an overunity device. 
   (Before anyone starts thinking about superconductive Bismuth, be aware
that the effect increases with cooling down to a certain point and then
disappears.) 
   The Corbino motor of effect C-2 would be hard to put to practical use,
but it sure would be an amazing demonstration.
   Since the varying magnetic field of C-3 is by necessity relatively weak
(that is, .08 T.), which implies a relatively low L for the coil that
generates it, you might be able to do this at high frequencies with a
low-loss resonant circuit driving the coil. Here's the equation:

Q= -(eS/16mRpi)(H2)T where

Q= total quantity of Corbino electricity (C)
e= charge of electron (1.602 x 10-19 C)
m= mass of electron (9.109 x 10-31 Kg.)
S= effective area of the disc (m2)
R= resistance of disc (ohm)
H= field intensity (T)
T= free time of electron in material (for Bi at .08 T. = 6.16 x 10-12 S.)

When you plug in all of the numbers for Bismuth at .08 T. you get:

Q= .000138 S/R

The resistivity (r) of Bi is 107 X 10-8 ohm/m. I didn't have a formula handy
for the resistance of a cylinder from the center to periphery but I guessed
it would be something like:

R= r(2Radius/cross sectional area)

Using a cylinder of Bismuth with a radius of .5 m and a height of .25 m
gives an 
S= .78 m2 and a total R= 2.14 x 10-6 ohm. Plugging this into our formula for
Q gives 50.2 Coulombs for the charge transferred from center to edge in a
magnetic field change of .08 T. This seems like an awful lot! Even if I'm an
order of magnitude off it's still a lot. Since an Amp is a C/sec. we're
talking about a considerable current if the thing is driven at high
frequencies. No figures were given on frequency dependence of the effect but
since we're talking about a non-reactive system the limits would be in the
coil driver, basically in getting a small enough capacitance value so the
coil could run at high frequency.
  Bismuth is highly diamagnetic (resists a magnetic field) so the field coil
dimensions would have to be such that a field was well-distributed through
the bulk of the cylinder. There's also some impedance-matching that would
have to be done to tap the output, but overall this gadget seems like a good
candidate for a free-energy device. I have made up plans for this device. If
anyone wants to build this I will help them with funds, sources of Bismuth,
research, etc.
  So folks, what do you think?
                          Fred

1) "The Magnetic Field Of Massive Rotating Bodies" by P.M.S. Blackett,
Nature, May 17, 1947
"Gravitational Magnetism" by Saul-Paul Sirag, Nature, Apr 5, 1979
2) "Unified Physics" by Reginald Irvan Gray, 
Naval Surface Warfare Center (1988)
3) "An Experimental Reexamination Of Faradayan Electrogravitational Induction" 
General Relativity and Gravitation, V.12, N.12, 1980
"Electrogravitational Induction and Rotation"
Foundations Of Physics, V.12, N.5, 1982, both by James F. Woodward 
4) "Clue To The Unification Of Gravitation And Physics" by Paul Wesson,
Physical Review D, V.23, N.8, Apr 15, 1981
5) "Some Electromagnetic Effects Related To the Hall Effect"
Phil. Mag, Feb. 1914, p. 244
"The Hall and Corbino Effects"
Proc. Am. Phil. Soc., 54, p. 47, 1915
"Galvanomagnetic And Thermomagnetic Effects" by Pratt(?), 1929
(I'll have to get this reference again)





 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 19:15:57 1997
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Hi Steve!

Check out Bedini's synthetic version made from cabinet door rectangular 
magnets....these are also available at Radio Shack, very cheap....try 

                http://www.keelynet.com/hamindex.htm

-- 
               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 19:21:17 1997
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References: <970311190251_-1137490339@emout18.mail.aol.com> <332b0a80.24618680@mail.netspace.net.au> <332A7699.6623@tiac.net> <332e6adb.15802749@mail.netspace.net.au>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:14:49 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote:
> [snip]
> >> Side note:
> >> If this conventional explanation is indeed correct, and each individual
> >> domain can be considered to be a small magnet in its own right, then it
> >> would appear that the magnetic fields of magnets do indeed cancel out, when
> >> opposed, provided that the distance from the magnets to the measuring
> >> instrument is large relative to the distance between the magnets
> >> themselves.
> 
> You seem to have missed this point.

I seem to have failed to make myself clear here.  Bifilar coils can be
wound tightly, or loosely, I have looked into the relative distances in
this respect.

> 
> >> This might also explain the apparent dichotomy between macro scale magnetic
> >> field behaviour, and that of a bifilar coil. The difference being only in
> >> the relative distance, magnet-magnet and magnet observer.
> >> This would appear to have been somewhat born out by the simulations that
> >> greg did of the magnetic field around a bifilar coil. (At short range a
> >> field was indeed evident).
> >
> >An interesting line of reasoning.
> >
> >One more point of data however:
> >
> >Bifilar coils can be constructed on any scale, and the effect is the
> >same.  Magnetic domains also come in a wide range of sized, from
> >microscopic to macroscopic, and again, the effect is the same.
> 
> While true, this ignores my main point. I.e. it is not the actual physical
> size that is important, but rather the *ratio* of the distances.
> In a bifilar coil, the distance between two adjacent windings is small
> relative to the distance from those windings at which the field strength is
> measured. This is also true of the distance between magnetic domains,
> relative to the distance at which the field strength is measured.
> 

True based on what data?  My data very clearly does not suggest that
this is the case at all.  I would very much love to see your data on
this, as the data I have on hand does not give me a satisfactory answer
as yet.

> >
> >It seems that physcial size is not the factor that controls the
> >difference in behaviors.
> >
> >So what then is?
> >
> >Once we wind a wire into a coil, and produce the macropole of a magnet,
> >we have added some form of substructure to the field, and it no longer
> >undergoes vector superposition.
> 
> This ignores the fact that even a straight section of current carrying wire
> is always part of a *circuit* (note the root of the word circle), and thus
> part of a loop. IOW when a current flows through a wire, it always flows in
> one form of loop or another, and consequently there are always "poles"
> present (even if these are very weak, and frequently go unnoticed).
> 

Clearly this is not the case for EM waves propogating through space. 
Where are the poles in a bifilar coil, which is also another geometery
of loop?

> >
> >The field around a staight conductor has not yet had this substructure
> >infolded, and will undergo vector superposition, which is why we can
> >make the macropole by winding the coil.
> 
> Thus there is *no* substantive difference between the field around a
> "straight" conductor, and that of a "coil".
> 

What???  Err, what about the difference in vector superposition of the
fields?

> >
> >So maybe not all flux is created equal?
> 
> Therefore this suggestion is based on a false assumption.

Specifically what false assumption?

> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on
> temperature.
> "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 19:53:44 1997
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Hi Folks!

I received a copy of the videotape that is being sold at the 
   http://www.world-famous.com    site.

So far, have only viewed about 30 minutes of it, but right off the bat, 
it has cleared up some questions I've had about Hamel and provided some 
bits of new information.

When Hamel shows the operation of his spinner, it verifies that we are 
correct only to an extent in its operation......the large ring magnet 
held above the smaller disc magnet that is lying on the steel ball is 
brought close enough so that the two magnets lie in a parallel plane.  
The disc magnet is NOT secured to the ball except by magnetic attraction.

The NORTH pole on top attracts the SOUTH pole of the disc magnet on top 
of the ball and the stand up......Hamel raises his hand and the disc and 
ball tilt over to the side so that the edge of the disc is lying on the 
table...this is where it starts to rotate, using the ball as a moving 
pivot point....that is it circumscribes a circle of about an inch....all 
the time Hamel is talking, this thing is rotating with slight movements 
of his hand every now and then to sustain the wobble.

This was never stated to have been a free energy or overunity device, but 
as an interesting experiment that might lead to it, if the rotation could 
be sustained....from what I can see, the timeline that Hamel used was the 
bowling ball test, followed by the ball and disc magnet, followed by the 
imploding drum, followed by the loss of the flying disc....so I consider 
the magnetic spinner as simply one chain in a series of experiments in 
Hamels' attempt to understand what was going on.

I highly recommend the video as it is VERY CLEAR and Hamel can speak 
english....some of his points are confusing, but I am working on a high 
points transcript....that is just the more useful information, ie, sans 
the aliens....hell, I don't care where he got the information, as long as 
it works and we can duplicate it, even on a small scale....cheers!
-- 
               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 20:00:07 1997
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You know how corrupt the oil and energy industry is when it comes to
protecting their own interest! Well, could it be that his fellow Newman
is withholding his technology from the masses until he can legitimately
put his hooks into the money-claim-royalty side of it?  I can only
speculate that maybe the best thing for him to do is to unleash this
technology in a form that any and all men can build in their own garages
and workshops out of ordinary substances. Would that kind of competition
reduce oil company clout to rubble? I think so.  Consider how Phil
Zimmerman unleashed his technology on the masses for FREE and the
ensuing goverment flap to no avail!
Interesting thread, tho.

Larry


> As many of you may know, at one point ELEVEN different U.S. CONGRESSMEN
> (both Democrats and Republicans) introduced eleven different (but
> identically worded) Private Relief Bills to have Congress issue Joseph
> Newman a patent directly.  There is precedence for this, and Congress does
> have the power to do this since it usually delegates its power in this
> regard to the Executive Branch (PTO).
> 
> At that time, all ELEVEN Bills were blocked by _one_ Congressman:
> Congressman Robert Kastenmeier from Wisconsin.  His argument: the case was
> currently pending in the Federal Court in Washington and he was unwilling
> (as Chairman of the Subcommittee in question where all 11 Bills were
> referred) to hold hearings on the eleven Bills.  We, of course, thought his
> attitude was ridiculous --- since our position was, "Since when was the
> Legislative Branch of government dependent upon what the Judicial Branch of
> government was doing?"
> 
> But there is something EVEN MORE REVEALING:
> 
> Those 11 Congressmen were totally frustrated with Kastenmeier and his lack
> of action on their legislation.  At one point it got so bad that several of
> the Congressman in support of Joe had written very direct, pointed letters
> to Kastenmeier requesting IMMEDIATE ACTION on their legislation.  In many
> case Kastenmeier DID NOT EVEN RESPOND to his fellow colleagues' letters


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:24:24 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:05:13 +0000
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Robert Kastenmeier; so that's his name?  I always just called him Big
Brother.....

Conspiracy; no that would be illegal, and you know that our government
NEVER does anything illegal...  why they are as pure as.....  OK, I just
can't use the word "government" and "pure" in the same sentence; sorry.

The truth of the matter is that he who has the most money is the only
one that matters.  I support Newman, and his team, and I think that
government is crap, but I have to agree that it does nobody any good to
go through patent battles.  He should make his technology avaliable to
everyone, and proclaim it in a loud thunderous voice that it is his and
his alone....  You know them Oil people aren't beyond "whacking" (for
lack of a better term) someone that they see as a threat to their
business.  So give support to Newman, but encourage him to do what is
best for his inventions.

Albert


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:26:19 1997
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From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
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>
>One needs to remember the Maxwell equation that says the divergence of B is
>always zero.  This means all the lines of B that leave one end (pole) of the
>magnet eventually reenter somewhere on the other end.
>
>

I remember discussion in one of my EE classes about reciprocity and 
symmetry and what it would mean if div B were not equal to 0. Very 
interesting discussions ensued about the possibility of magnetic monopoles.

For a further interesting discussion regarding gravitation and the possible 
parallels between the basic gravitation equations and Maxwell's equations, 
see the book CAUSALITY, ELECTROMAGNETIC INDUCTION AND GRAVITATION by Oleg 
Jefimenko.

Zack

--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:30:54 1997
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Hi coil people, 

   Well, this is my third post of the day, but I guess I can be forgiven
because I have to shovel all my stuff out in a 2-day period when I'm home.
   Yes, I believe that a coil or transformer can produce free energy. I
don't think it will occur under circumstances of normal EM induction. In
some of my other posts I've discussed the possibility of using parametric
excitation of a transformer to create free energy. In the Wanless parametric
transformer, a sinusoidal current through the primary changes the inductance
of the secondary, which is in parallel with a capacitor. The varying
inductance parametrically induces a current in the secondary.
The secondary does not interact with the primary, it is at right angles to
it, so obviously there is no back EMF. There should be no loading of the
primary at all from the secondary. If you were to remove the wire from the
secondary the primary will not behave any differently. The inductance of a
single coil with a sine current will vary in exactly the same way. Have you
ever seen any description of "inductance varying loss" from a coil or
transformer? No, because there isn't any! 
   Of course there are losses (iron,hysteretic) but they can be minimized
with good design-- a typical transformer is 90-98% efficient. So if your
primary is part of a high-Q parallel resonant circuit you only need to feed
in enough energy to compensate for these losses once the circuit has reached
the current level you want. All the while the secondary is producing usable
power. Neat, clean, efficient, solid-state. Tell me why it won't work, o you
sceptics. 
   Of course this is theory.  What about practise? If I had an experimental
bone in my body and the right test equipment, this is the experiment I would do:
   Pick a frequency range (from core loss considerations it should be in the
10-100 Khz range). Get an audio amplifier or other low output impedance
amplifier that covers this range. Wind a small manganese-zinc ferrite
toroidal core with enough enamelled wire to give you an inductance such that
the resonant frequency is in your chosen range. (Your inductance should be
on the high side so that the depth of variation of inductance in the
secondary is high). Pick a capacitor so the coil/capacitor circuit and the
amplifier are all resonant.
   Now you have a choice of several ways to go for the secondary:
1) You can wind a BIFILAR winding WITH the primary so that the coupling
constant is highest, approaching 1.  This is the most enticing possibility
to me, but it may not work.  Will the secondary circuit 'see' the inductance
as changing if you use a bifilar coil? I don't know. If you're not sure what
this three-wire winding would look like,ask me for more info.
2) You can wind the secondary as two coils in series on either side of the
primary but wound in opposite directions so their magnetic fields cancel.
This is how it's done in magnetic amplifiers to keep the AC signal that's
being controlled from influencing the DC control signal. This is easy to do
and is likely to work.
3) You could wedge a ferrite rod into the hole in the torus so there is good
magnetic contact between rod and toroid and wind your secondary on this (in
either direction, it doesn't matter). In this case the secondary magnetic
field is at right angles to the primary.
   You need to pick a capacitor for the secondary so that it and the
secondary resonate at the primary frequency.    
   Any or all of these might work, or combinations thereof. So, any of you
that want to try a simple experiment that might demonstrate free energy, be
my guest. If it works, let me know and we'll enter it in the Zenergy contest
and split the prize money.  And if it doesn't work, I've got a lot more
ideas. Anybody out there that can use 50,000 dollars?
                  Fred
                    

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:52:01 1997
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Subject: Re: The Patent
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>You know how corrupt the oil and energy industry is when it comes to
>protecting their own interest! Well, could it be that his fellow Newman
>is withholding his technology from the masses until he can legitimately
>put his hooks into the money-claim-royalty side of it?  I can only
>speculate that maybe the best thing for him to do is to unleash this
>technology in a form that any and all men can build in their own garages
>and workshops out of ordinary substances. Would that kind of competition
>reduce oil company clout to rubble? I think so.  Consider how Phil
>Zimmerman unleashed his technology on the masses for FREE and the
>ensuing goverment flap to no avail!
>Interesting thread, tho.
>
>Larry

Dear Larry,

Thanks for your comment.

Let me repeat (with a 7 word addition) the following in case it was overlooked:

"From the very beginning, Joseph Newman has asked only for the equal
opportunity to present his invention in the marketplace with patent
protection (as originally innovated by our Founding Fathers), despite the
fact that Mr. Charles H. Duell, Director of the Patent Office, declared in
1899 that, 'Everything that can be invented has been invented.'"

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman@earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html



"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY







From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:04:33 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:48:52 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <bilb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Forwarded mail....
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 97 15:17:13 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <alex@frolov.spb.ru>
To: bilb@eskimo.com

Dear Sir,

Please, publish it. If it is necessary, I'll make Figures according to
my understanding for this device. I made plans for it some time ago before
I saw it in TV programm.

TV6, Moscow, 14 March, 1997.

Invenion of self-accelerated vortex perpetuum mobile is patented by
E. Papushin.

Video demonstrate experimental system that consist of electromagnetic
motor [1] and some cylinder [2]. Inside of cylinder the water is
rotating by rotor [3] that is connected with motor. After the vortex
is created, self rotation of water allow to use the same motor as
generator.


                       .........
                       .       .
                       .       .
                       .   1   .
                       .       .
                       .........
                           I
                           I       2
                  ---------I---------
                  I     ---I---     I
                  I    I   3   I    I
                  I     -------     I
                  -------------------

By my opinion, it is version of Victor Shauberger's vortex system. Also
it can be use for reactionless propulsion, for space craft also.

Idea in general is: positive back-feed between effect and cause. In this
case, water flows moving from rotating part 3 by centifugal forces create
reactive force that increase velocity of rotation. That's all! Water is
moving into center of the rotor since in the centre there is low pressure
area.

Reactionless propulsion is result of asymmetry of water flows in the system.
Water inflow along axis (linear action-reaction) but water outflow from
rotor 3 in radial directions without reaction since vector sum is zero.

So, people have real technology, patented, simple and nice. Let's use it!
Where are customers? Who have wish to build own space fleet? Who have
wish to begin real exploration of new planet and colonization of planet?

Alexander V. Frolov
...................
--- 
 Alexander V. Frolov
 P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024, Russia
                          

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:25:43 1997
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From: "John R. Tooker" <jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: room-temperature superconductors
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>    The superconductor patent you're looking for is #4,325,795, "Process For
> Forming Ambient Temperature Superconducting Filaments"
> 
Thanx muchly! :) Take care.
John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:43:09 1997
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I recall seeing a Rex Research Infolio on the said Bi filaments.

Regards;
Dennis C. Lee



At 04:34 PM 3/16/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Guys!  I don't have the patent number handy but the guys name was 
>BOUGON or BOURGON...it dealt with very fine bismuth fibers as room temp 
>superconducors....if I find the number before anyone else posts it, I'll 
>send it on...
>-- 
>               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
>     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:48:20 1997
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From: "John R. Tooker" <jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Room Temp. Superconductors
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> 
> I recall seeing a Rex Research Infolio on the said Bi filaments.
> 
> Regards;
> Dennis C. Lee
Yuppers! I actually had a copy. Unfortunately, I lost the dang thing, and
I'd rather just get it from the patent office, to save some $. Though, I
do like their selection of folios.
John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:50:43 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:44:35 +0000
From: Albert Yang <lithium@ipgeek.com>
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The EMA Engine of Edwin V Gray.

So I have a quick question, has anyone built one of these bad boys or
what?  From some articles I have read, once started, it is suppose to
run and run and run.  True or false?  

Albert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 00:33:16 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:54:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970317025406_-2107393617@emout05.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
cc: bshannon@tiac.net, gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Subject: Magnetic Compression Pump Circuit (New Idea)
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On 17/03/1997  01:31:08,  bshannon@tiac.net wrote :

<< Is it possible that shorting the coil causes more flux change outside
 the ferrite, so that less energy is used in moving the magnetic domains,
 and therefore less current is drawn, or something along these
 (conventional) lines?
 
 Some claimed over unity devices have shown a drop in supply current as
 the load applied to the device is raised, but were still under unity in
 operation, becuase once the load fell below some given resistance, the
 supply current would again raise in response.  (Usually where large AC
 power factors are envolved.)
 
 So a drop in current drawn in response to an increase in load current
 alone is not evidence for the possiblity of over-unity operation.
  >>

Hi Bob, Greg and All,

I suggest a new idea of a "Magnetic Compression Pump circuit", I look forward
to receive your suggestions and comments. Its run on simulation today....and
a device soon....

If we have a circuit with an inductance L1 (resistance R1) and another
inductance L2 (resistance R2). At the beginning L1 and L2 is load with a
source and the circuit L1,R1,L2,R2 is closed (disconnect from the source) to
start the process.
If we decrease the inductance L1 and its resistance R1 of a circuit rapidly
enough to approximately conserve magnetic flux (phi=L1*I1) , we have a
"magnetic compression process". To try to maintain the flux constant during
the magnetic compression process you must decrease L1 and increase R1, the
inductance L2 (R2) is "the collector" and have is characteristics constant. 

The circuit must be tuned like this : 

- the Tau=L1/R1 must be in function of the time, Tau( at end of process)
approximatively equal to Tau ( at the begeinning of process ).
- at the start of compression :
    when we close the circuit we have W(start)=0.5*(L1+L2)*I1^2
     (Io is the current when we close the circuit )
- at the end of Magnetic Compression process :
   we have L1(end)>>L1(start),   R1(end)>>R1(start),  Tau(end)=2*Tau(start)
   W(end)=0.5*(L1+L2)*I2^2 with I2>>I1  ====>>  W(end)>>>W(start)

The "Magnetic Compression Process" run properly IF the decrease of L1 occurs
rapidly enough, the damping effect due to the resistance of the circuit is
too small to change the magnetic flux appreciably. Since magnetic flux is
roughly conserved, the current I will increase as L1 decrease. If the circuit
is correctly tuned with the parameters above, the electrical energy produced
in the load is higher than the initial electromagnetic energy.

The MCP timing : 
- Initialisation :loading of MCP 0-51 ms
- pump phase : 52-95 ms
- S-flow transfert : 95-500 ms
- power input : 1.27 W
- power output : 90 kW on R=10 ohms

....all comments are welcome.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 00:58:07 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:41:14 +1000
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: RE: Interesting OU? Patents
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At 12:46 PM 3/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
>"We apologize for the inconvenience" (in Life, The Universe 
>and Everything).        :-) That was God's last words to his creation.
(Right before he went up in a puff of logic.)
>
>Anyone know when the 6th book in the trillogy will come out?
>
>I think it being written in the resturant and the end of the universe be 
on the lookout for it after the end of time
Geoff
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 01:10:52 1997
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: More Hamel Spinning Tops
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At 06:34 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>i CAN'T FIND THE LARGER MAGNET for the top it's extremly large does anyone
no where i can get it
>
>
>thanks
>
>
>I got mine from one those magnetic clamps from a hardware store
I had to remove the two outer metal plates by using some acetone solvent to
Loosen the glue.

The magnet is about two to two half inches across with 7/8 inch center
I have used this with a 1 inch tandy magnet and a 7/8inch ball bearing
and have achieved results other have various web sites.

Geoff
http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 01:22:45 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:38:46 +1000
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: RE: Interesting OU? Patents
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At 12:38 PM 3/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
>The answer was 42 but the question was 9 times 6, but of course that is a
bit off.
>
>Seems like the computer big thought had a bug in it 
I wonder if intel built it and microsoft provided the software (ha ha)
>Geoff

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 01:42:55 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:14:09 +1000
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: The Patent
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At 08:55 PM 3/15/97 -0800, you wrote:
Phil
>Zimmerman unleashed his technology on the masses for FREE and the
>ensuing goverment flap to no avail!
>
>
>Could some one enlighten me who and what Phil Zimmerman was or is and what
he done
Thanks
Geoff

Http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 03:32:38 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:17:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970317061745_-1539077243@emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, bshannon@tiac.net
Subject: Re : Magnetic Compression Pump Circuit (New Idea)
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On 17/03/1997  11:00:12, I wrote :

<< - at the end of Magnetic Compression process :
    we have L1(end)>>L1(start),   R1(end)>>R1(start),  Tau(end)=2*Tau(start)
    W(end)=0.5*(L1+L2)*I2^2 with I2>>I1  ====>>  W(end)>>>W(start)
  >>

I think that you have corrected this error in my latest e-mail :

   we have L1(end)<<L1(start),   R1(end)<<R1(start),  Tau(end)=2*Tau(start)
 
For those of you want to have more informations about my MCEP, I have put
more informations, schematic diagrams and a simple test design on my Web
server in "Advanced research" topic at :
   http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

PS : For Bob Shannon and John Bedini, its a good opportunity for "Playing
Mental Masturbation"....  :-)

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 04:42:15 1997
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From: "steve pelet" <stevepel@axs2000.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: More Hamel Spinning Tops
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:02:52 -0500
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I couldn't find the right size in american sci&surplus could someone point me in the right
direction like what is the url to the magnet

----------
> From: Hawkeye <havveye@execpc.com>
> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: More Hamel Spinning Tops
> Date: Sunday, March 16, 1997 6:59 PM
> 
> American Science and surplus?
> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 05:32:32 1997
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Message-ID: <332D4BA5.1F7C@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:18:21 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: OU coils
References: <9703170437.AA03879@mail1.halcyon.com>
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi coil people,
> 
>    Well, this is my third post of the day, but I guess I can be forgiven
> because I have to shovel all my stuff out in a 2-day period when I'm home.
>    Yes, I believe that a coil or transformer can produce free energy. I
> don't think it will occur under circumstances of normal EM induction. In
> some of my other posts I've discussed the possibility of using parametric
> excitation of a transformer to create free energy. In the Wanless parametric

Where can I get data on the Wanless parametric transformer?

> transformer, a sinusoidal current through the primary changes the inductance
> of the secondary, which is in parallel with a capacitor. The varying
> inductance parametrically induces a current in the secondary.
> The secondary does not interact with the primary, it is at right angles to
> it, so obviously there is no back EMF. There should be no loading of the
> primary at all from the secondary. If you were to remove the wire from the
> secondary the primary will not behave any differently. The inductance of a
> single coil with a sine current will vary in exactly the same way. Have you
> ever seen any description of "inductance varying loss" from a coil or
> transformer? No, because there isn't any!
>    Of course there are losses (iron,hysteretic) but they can be minimized
> with good design-- a typical transformer is 90-98% efficient. So if your
> primary is part of a high-Q parallel resonant circuit you only need to feed
> in enough energy to compensate for these losses once the circuit has reached
> the current level you want. All the while the secondary is producing usable
> power. Neat, clean, efficient, solid-state. Tell me why it won't work, o you
> sceptics.
>    Of course this is theory.  What about practise? If I had an experimental
> bone in my body and the right test equipment, this is the experiment I would do:
>    Pick a frequency range (from core loss considerations it should be in the
> 10-100 Khz range). Get an audio amplifier or other low output impedance
> amplifier that covers this range. Wind a small manganese-zinc ferrite
> toroidal core with enough enamelled wire to give you an inductance such that
> the resonant frequency is in your chosen range. (Your inductance should be
> on the high side so that the depth of variation of inductance in the
> secondary is high). Pick a capacitor so the coil/capacitor circuit and the
> amplifier are all resonant.
>    Now you have a choice of several ways to go for the secondary:
> 1) You can wind a BIFILAR winding WITH the primary so that the coupling
> constant is highest, approaching 1.  This is the most enticing possibility
> to me, but it may not work.  Will the secondary circuit 'see' the inductance
> as changing if you use a bifilar coil? I don't know. If you're not sure what
> this three-wire winding would look like,ask me for more info.
> 2) You can wind the secondary as two coils in series on either side of the
> primary but wound in opposite directions so their magnetic fields cancel.
> This is how it's done in magnetic amplifiers to keep the AC signal that's
> being controlled from influencing the DC control signal. This is easy to do
> and is likely to work.
> 3) You could wedge a ferrite rod into the hole in the torus so there is good
> magnetic contact between rod and toroid and wind your secondary on this (in
> either direction, it doesn't matter). In this case the secondary magnetic
> field is at right angles to the primary.

If the rod in wedged into the centre of the toroid, how can wire be
wound on the toroid?

> You need to pick a capacitor for the secondary so that it and the
> secondary resonate at the primary frequency.
> Any or all of these might work, or combinations thereof. So, any of you
> that want to try a simple experiment that might demonstrate free energy, be
> my guest. If it works, let me know and we'll enter it in the Zenergy contest
> and split the prize money.  And if it doesn't work, I've got a lot more
> ideas. Anybody out there that can use 50,000 dollars?
>                   Fred
> 

Hi Fred,

Need some more info to think bout this.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 05:32:45 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:21:35 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
>    1) The Tolman effect: Bob Shannon is correct, the rotating disc must be
> accelerating or decelerating for the effect to occur. Steady rotation of a
> disc does not generate a voltage, at least not from the Tolman effect. The

Hi Fred,

A rotation disk is always under acceleration.  The effect will work,
only the voltage produced is not much.  Microvolt stuff.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 05:35:01 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:00:13 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Subject: Magnetic Fields and Wires
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Hi All,

Several recent posts have caused me to realize that there is some
confusion as to why coils of wire do that they do and don't do.

I have attached several Gifs which, I hope, should help all to
understand wires and magnetic fields.

The first is of two wires with current flowing in both wires the same
way as it does in most coils.  Note that the flux contours show how the
flux from each wire aids the field of the other and that the total flux
is now starting to look like the flux we associate with a solenoid. The
effect is that the small flux from each wire adds to its neighbours and
the overall flux density is increased, the greater number of wires we
add.  When the field changes, in this config, all the wires sense a flux
change which causes the EMF generated by each wire to add to the total
and the coil shows magnetic inertia (Inductance).

The second is of two wires with current flowing in both wires in the
opposite direction as in a Bifilar coil.  Note that the flux contours
show how the flux from each wire opposes the flux from their
neighbours.  The effect is that the small flux from each wire has no
chance to aid the creation of a larger flux field.  When the field
changes, in this config (and there is a field, its just very small), the
EMF induced in each wire opposes that generated by its neighbour and
only a very small EMF is generated (mainly by the wires at the edge). 
The effect of all this is of a coil with very little magnetic inertia
(Inductance).

The third is of 4 wires in a Bifilar config.

>From this set of examples, it should be clear that magnetic fields are
not destroyed in Bifilar coils, they just don't add to their neighbours
to create a greater overall field.

As a side comment, it would be interesting to investigate the
characteristics in the first few nsec of current flow in a Bifilar
coil.  

If we have a two turn coil and applied a very sharp rise time current
pulse, we would find that before the electron energy flow had progressed
to the second (opposing turn), the magnetic field generated in the first
turn would induce a additive EMF in the second turn.  This additive EMF
would assist current being driven even harder into the coil.  
In other words, in a Bifilar coil, initial current flow (in the first
few nsec) would be even harder than that in a non-inductive circuit
member.  This is a very different situation to a normal coil, where the
current flow induces a opposing EMF and attempts to stop current flow.

Is this effect the cause of strange stories of funny things happening
with Bifilar coils?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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--------------41DE42262826--



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 07:55:17 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: magnetic shielding
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High magnetic shielders!

   It's about 6 in the morning here and I just woke up with some ideas about
magnetic shielding.

1)  Diamagnetic materials have a negative susceptibility and thus a negative
permeability.  Looking at my Handbook of Chemistry and Physics the three
most negative materials I see are:
Bismuth  -280.1
Hydrated Aluminum Trisulphate -323.0
Tetra-i-pentylammonium Bromide -378

(All organic compounds are diamagnetic to some degree, which leads to some
interesting speculations about the role of diamagnetism in the life force
which I won't get into here.)
(It's also interesting to note that it was an aluminum mineral that fell the
slowest in Brushes gravity drop experiments in the early 1900's.)

Now if you enclose one end of a magnetic in Bismuth the field will still get
through to the other end but it'll sure be funny looking- it might have to
go back through the body of the magnet to do it! Maybe Greg can simulate this.

2) How fast does a magnetic line of force travel? (assuming it exists). Make
a really long thin magnet, say like a pencil 20 feet long and put an
electromagnet with a very low inductance facing one end with the opposite
sign, so the lines of force go into it. Then rapidly swith the sign of the
electromagnet. What do the lines of force do? Do they attach themselves to
the body of the pencil magnet and travel down the body of the magnet to the
the end at the speed of light? Or do they fling themselves through space
toward the end at that speed? Or do they travel at some speed other than the
speed of light?  What happens to the lines of force at the other end in the
meantime?
This might provide food for thought...
(I have had a long-standing suspicion that all overunity processes involve
time-variation because the process itself actually affects the flow of time,
and thus the energy/work equation. There is some research being done about
what are called endochronic processes, process with their own internal clock
that is different from our time-counting system, that is very interesting in
this regard. There is also a paper that suggests that an electric field will
alter the passage of time in its vicinity. I'll look them up if anybody's
interested.)

3) Along the same lines as the last suggestion, imagine you can see the
lines of force around an electromagnet while the polarity is slowly being
reversed. You see a large field slowly contract until it disappears into the
body of the magnet (at zero field) then expand again until it returns to its
original shape but with opposite polarity.
Now if you have two oppositely charged current sources one at each end of
the wire and you switch one off at the same moment as you switch the other
one on, the magnetic field will change from one polarity to the other at the
speed of light and will not be confined to the time constant LC. Right?  If
you were looking at the lines of force while this was going on they would
appear unmoving and static even though the polarity was being reversed. If
the two current sources are driven off the same time standard the actual
switching time can be made near instantaneous. What happens to the lines of
force in the instant of switching? I'm not sure where I'm going with this,
I'll just leave it hanging for now...

4) Can you have a line of force that is a free magnetic dipole? What happens
if you switch a magnetic field on and switch it off again before the energy
has had time to reach the other end of the magnet? (you can use the opposing
current source idea to do this) Would you have a little line of magnetic
force all on its lonesome in the air?
This is probably naive, but it's still interesting.

5) Picture a system composed of a high-frequency coil with a flat sheet of
ferrite facing one pole. The ferrite has a DC magnetic field in the same
orientation as the coil that's controlled by a rheostat. The coil is driven
by an AC sine wave at some arbitrary frequency. I'm wracking my brain as to
where I read this, but I think as you increase the DC field slowly, at a
certain point in field intensity the lines of force from the HF coil will
act like rays of light on a mirror and BOUNCE OFF the ferrite.
There's some interesting possibilities there, aren't there?
(I know that H. Aspden often refers to "The Physical Properties Of
Magnetism" by Brailsford where there's some material about the negative
permeabililty of ferrites at certain AC and DC levels but I also saw much
more about this in some turn of the century book published in Seattle, where
this guy who was a railroad engineer was bouncing lines of force off metal
sheets and generally treating them like light rays. Ill try to find it again.)

Well that's enough speculation for one (early) morning. I'm going back to bed.
                                  Fred    

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 09:11:21 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: Tolman effect
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Hi Greg,
  Everything I've seen on the Tolman effect says it occurs when an object is
accelerating or decelerating.  True, a disc in steady motion is in a
constant state of acceleration, so you would think that it would show this
effect, but the "experts" say it only happens when there is a second-order
acceleration, i.e the disc is speeding up or slowing down. I'm putting this
one to bed now, it's only a few microvolts (or is it? What about the SEARL
effect?)
                            Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 11:57:36 1997
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Phil Zimmerman, author of PGP, Pretty Good Privacy.  It's a sufisticated
encryption system in which the government at this time can't break.  You
can download a copy of it from mit.edu.  

Albert

He also has PGP Phone, the same encryption system in real time audio
encrypto-compression so you can talk to someone via internet speaker/mic
without someone else listening in.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 19:22:12 1997
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Subject: piles o' papers
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Hi (again) everyone--

Peter Nielsen says:

You keep mentioning all those tantalizing "papers" you have, or have seen.
YES. How can we see them. The ones on time alteration in electrical fields,
and rotation, as it relates to gravity, are of particular interest. 

Sorry I haven't been documenting my sources fully. My filing system is
pathetic- literally stacks of papers about 4 foot high all over my spare
bedroom. I sort of know where everything is but sometimes I don't want to
stop writing to go plough through a pile o' papers.

The papers mentioned in recent posts are:

GRAVITATION AND ROTATION
(Several more were listed in the post on the Blackett, etc. effects)

"Centrifugal Force Is A Reality" by Adrian Phillips
Engineering Digest, Sept. 1980, p. 32
A brief paper detailing experiments on centrifugal force.  The author shows
that the energy in a centrifugal system is exactly twice that described by
Newton's laws.  The experiments involve measuring the hydraulic pressure
generated in a pendulum consisting of a tube filled with water.

"Centrifugal Force: A Few Surprises" by Marek Abramowicz
Monthly Notices Of The Royal Astronomical Society 245, (1990) p.733-746
The author demonstrates that Huygens, the discoverer of centrifugal force,
was correct when describing it as real, as opposed to the Newtonian view
that it is a fictitious force. The proof involves the motion of light around
black holes. This is mainstream science reported in Scientific American.

TIME, ELECTRICAL FIELDS, AND ROTATION
"A Possible Connection Between The Electric Field And The Flow Of Time" by
H. Hickman and D. Kaplan, Speculations In Science And Technology, V.16, N.1,
p.26 (1992)
A short paper that inverts the standard relationship between the variables
in the one-dimensional wave equation to allow for the possibility that the
presence of an electrical field will affect the passage of time. They
describe an experiment to test their hypothesis by looking for the
retardation of a laser beam between the plates of a discharging capacitor.
The experiment was never done as far as I know.

"On The Properties Of Materials And The Concepts Of Time And Space" by Vidim
Komkov and Kirk Valanis, Speculations In Science And Technology, V.4, N.2,
p.157 (1981)
The study of changing properties of materials (such as viscosity, hardness,
etc.) encountered difficulties because theoretical models showed the nature
of the effect but the predicted time intervals did not fit those of the
actual materials. The problem was solved by assuming an "endochronic" time
scale specific to the material under study and based on variation of another
parameter rather than time. This involves the theory of harmonic
oscillators, which of course is a close analog of a rotating system. A
secondary purpose of the paper is to "reduce the time and length measurement
to a simple counting theory based on a non-standard integer system as
introduced by T. Skollem".  This part of the paper is anything but simple.
Well worth study though.

ALSO RECOMMENDED:
"A Simple Experimental Test For The Inertial Field Of A Rotating Mechanical
Object"
available from Bruce Depalma (or me)
Depalma measures what he believes is an inertial field around a rotating
object.  Tellingly, he uses a digital watch. Is he measuring an inertial
field or a "time field"?
"Some Consequences Of A Linear Vector Theory Of Inertial Fields" by J.T Fraser
Journal Of The Franklin Institute, Dec. 1961
To quote: "The existence of a static field associated with rotating mass is
assumed. This field combines with the ordinary gravitational field so as to
form the linear, Lorentz invariant structure of "inertial fields". It is
shown that by pursuing the consequences of this postulate one can
qualitatively predict several general relativistic effects while also
accomodating all special relativistic effects. By providing a link between
local dynamic events and the rest of matter over all of space, the theory of
inertial fields leads to a logically coherent model of inertial force fields
and suggests an approach to the realization of Mach's program. A rotary
motion equivalence principle is obtained." One consequence of their theory
is that rotating objects experiencing second-order acceleration will
generate dynamic inertial fields which will have measurable effects. I think
it is likely that these effects will include distortions of time flow.

  I understand this kind of material is not easy to get ahold of. I am
already in the process of sending out some other papers. Why is everybody in
Australia? Anybody who is interested in papers I mention need only send me
their snailmail address and I will send them what I have. I will cover all
costs. I will also do research for anyone who wants it, covering all costs.
Am I being altruistic? Only partly. I do have an agenda, and I'll be upfront
about it: as you may have figured out, I am not an experimentalist.
Soldering irons bite me, and then they bite the PC board I'm working on.
When I send anyone papers I will include proposals for machines or
experiments that are as detailed as possible. All I ask as "payment" is that
you consider my proposals. You aren't obligated in any way. If the machine
or experiment interests you and you decide to build something based on it
(modifying it in any way you see fit) I will send you funds, parts, more
information or whatever will bring it to reality. You send me feedback on
what happens. For those who believe this way of doing things obligates them,
let me know and I will stick a piece of paper in the envelope with my
copying and mailing or faxing costs and you mail me a check for this amount.
No cost for research, this will always be free--I love doing it!
  (I hope this proposal does not infringe on the noncommercial nature of the
mailing list. I'm not interested in going into business--I already have one,
thank you.)
                                      Fred 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 21:20:53 1997
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From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg,
>   Everything I've seen on the Tolman effect says it occurs when an object is
> accelerating or decelerating.  True, a disc in steady motion is in a
> constant state of acceleration, so you would think that it would show this
> effect, but the "experts" say it only happens when there is a second-order
> acceleration, i.e the disc is speeding up or slowing down. I'm putting this
> one to bed now, it's only a few microvolts (or is it? What about the SEARL
> effect?)
>                             Fred

Hi Fred,

So I have been told.  Talk to Scott Little for the maths.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 21:35:46 1997
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To: rgeorge@hooked.net
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Subject: Cat Powered Anti-gravity and Free Energy System
References: <199703171651.IAA04901@mom.hooked.net>
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Russ George wrote:
> 
> I never did manage to build the Neuman version of the ballon machine but
> finally that Valentines day ballon has about died. For the most part these
> days it rests on the floor unable to rise. However my ten year old daughter
> seems to have invented perpetual motion. She places the ballon in a sunbeam.
> in a moment the ballon begins to rise toward the ceiling. As it drifts out of
> the sunbeam (perhaps 2 feet off the floor) it slows to a stop and begins to
> fall back to the floor. It never quite makes it back through the 2 foot high
> sunbeam to the floor and begins to rise again. It will do this until the cat,
> driven crazy by the dangling ribbon, attacks.
> 
> We have talked about patenting the cat as an OU arresting invention. Biological
> patents are hot items these days. If anyone would like to invest they can send
> either money or cat food.
> 
> Russ George

Hi Russ,

My son suggested a anti-gravity and free energy system based on cat
power and buttered toast to me some time ago.  It seems to make sense,
but I can't get my children to agree to the use of the cat or my wife to
cleaning up the mess.


Goes something like this :

1) Buttered bread or toast always falls butter side down.

2) Cats always fall feet side down.


If we observe these two hard facts of our natural world, then the
following should work.

1) Tie buttered toast to cats back, butter side up.

2) Lift cat and butter toast assy about 1 mtr off floor.

3) Drop cat and butter toast assy. (Watch out for the cat's claws)

4) Observe that as cat & butter toast assy reaches approx 100-200mm from
floor, both will fight to reach the floor first and rotate, just above
the floor, at a high speed.

Would probably not be OU as the butter will eventually be flung of the
toast and the cat will get very dizzy.  But maybe for a short time,
energy could be drained off the system.  Only problem might be the cats
claws.

Anyone want to try?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 21:51:36 1997
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From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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>
>Please explain how Qfield can show fields in actual cases where there is
>no stored energy in the bifilar coil?
>
>Qfield is a very valuable tool, but like any tool, it can be misused.
>
>

Hi Bob,

I've mentioned this before, but QFIELD is a nice thing to play with but
it uses conventional physics to derive its fields. It does nothing with
scalar fields.

If we're looking at anything unconventional, it's not going to predict it.
(And I think we are).

I wonder if Greg considers this?

Zack


--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 22:17:51 1997
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Message-ID: <332DE742.7FE2@tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:52:18 +0000
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Greg Watson wrote:
> 
> Fred Epps wrote:
> >
> >    1) The Tolman effect: Bob Shannon is correct, the rotating disc must be
> > accelerating or decelerating for the effect to occur. Steady rotation of a
> > disc does not generate a voltage, at least not from the Tolman effect. The
> 
> Hi Fred,
> 
> A rotation disk is always under acceleration.  The effect will work,
> only the voltage produced is not much.  Microvolt stuff.

dV/Dt, a change in acceleration Greg.  Uniform rotation is not at all
the same thing here.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 22:19:42 1997
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Zack Widup wrote:
> 
> I've mentioned this before, but QFIELD is a nice thing to play with but
> it uses conventional physics to derive its fields. It does nothing with
> scalar fields.
> 
> If we're looking at anything unconventional, it's not going to predict it.
> (And I think we are).
> 
> I wonder if Greg considers this?
> 
> Zack

Hi Zack,

I must admit that I have never played with scalar fields.  But I LOVE to
learn.

Where is a good place to start?  
How do I generate these scalar fields?
What are their physical properties?  
What effect is there on the energy flows in the creation process?  
How do I detect them, if I do create them?

An open mind, always.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 22:40:04 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
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Subject: RE: Magnetic Fields and Wires
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Greg Watson said:

<snip>
>As a side comment, it would be interesting to investigate the
>characteristics in the first few nsec of current flow in a Bifilar
>coil. =20
>
>If we have a two turn coil and applied a very sharp rise time current
>pulse, we would find that before the electron energy flow had =
progressed
>to the second (opposing turn), the magnetic field generated in the =
first
>turn would induce a additive EMF in the second turn.  This additive EMF
>would assist current being driven even harder into the coil. =20
>In other words, in a Bifilar coil, initial current flow (in the first
>few nsec) would be even harder than that in a non-inductive circuit
>member.  This is a very different situation to a normal coil, where the
>current flow induces a opposing EMF and attempts to stop current flow.

Exactly my interest. I'd like to see the results of high-frequency and =
relatively high-energy pulsing of a bifilar coil.
Unfortunately my electronics experience is about 25 years rusty and so =
don't really know how to put together the right circuits to do that =
(still drawers full of discrete components from the 60's down in the =
basement at my parents' house, though :-). Can anybody provide a =
relatively simple circuit (or pointers to one) that could be used for =
this? I'd love to build it and do some tests.

Dan Quickert


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 22:41:15 1997
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Greg Watson wrote:

<snip>

> >From this set of examples, it should be clear that magnetic fields are
> not destroyed in Bifilar coils, they just don't add to their neighbours
> to create a greater overall field.

It is true that the magnetic fields are not *totally* destroyed, but are
reduced several orders of magnetude, while the net amper-turns remains
the same.  

So while not all flux is destroyed, it is largely suppressed, and we do
not have both fields in the same space summing only in our field probes.

Note the drop in stored energy once again.
 
> As a side comment, it would be interesting to investigate the
> characteristics in the first few nsec of current flow in a Bifilar
> coil.

I completely agree!!!!  I've been after these first few nanoseconds for
years now.
 
> If we have a two turn coil and applied a very sharp rise time current
> pulse, we would find that before the electron energy flow had progressed
> to the second (opposing turn), the magnetic field generated in the first
> turn would induce a additive EMF in the second turn.  This additive EMF
> would assist current being driven even harder into the coil.
> In other words, in a Bifilar coil, initial current flow (in the first
> few nsec) would be even harder than that in a non-inductive circuit
> member.  This is a very different situation to a normal coil, where the
> current flow induces a opposing EMF and attempts to stop current flow.

But a two turn bifilar coil is largely inductive.  Try this with a coil
with a great deal more "missing" inductance, and your getting into
unknown areas.

This is where we might hope to find a way "out of the square" of
conventional EM, and under unity operation.

> Is this effect the cause of strange stories of funny things happening
> with Bifilar coils?

It's very close Greg.  Please note that we need more than two bifilar
windings to get really significant net non-inductance (and missing field
energy!) and cancelation.

Also note that we have indeed seen flux summing in the case of the
conventional coil, between windings.  We have also clearly seem
destructive flux summing in the bifilar coil.

So what about the 'macro-poles' of permanent magnets?

Only if we dip them in a superconductor can we sheild the fields, but we
now have no change in the opposed flux (significant in the Whittaker
papers and Bearden's early works) and find a free A field outside the
superconductor.

This is described in the Sci-Am article on Quantum Interference and the
Aharnov-Bohm effect.

Interesting stuff eh?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 22:42:05 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
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Subject: Re: difference in field properties
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:25:34 GMT
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On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:31:36 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote:
[snip]
>Greg, if this were true, why then can we not store any energy in these
>fields when opposed?  If the inductance of a well made bifilar coil is
>near zero, where are these fields and their stored energy?
[snip]
Perhaps this could be partially explained as follows.
When the fields are building in a bifilar coil, they intercept the adjacent
wires in such a way as to produce a "forward" rather than a "back" emf.
This essentially reduces the impedance (inductance?) of the coil, ensuring
that little or no energy is required to build the fields.
Looking a little deeper, this has some interesting consequences. E.g. it
implies that no energy is "stored" in fields at all, only that work must be
done to create a field (unless two opposing fields are created
simultaneously), and that a collapsing field can do work. (Two opposing
collapsing fields "do & un-do" work simultaneously, hence nothing gets
done).
All this leads to an interesting question:
Is work required to separate the windings of a bifilar coil, while it is
carrying a current (do you need to overcome a force, in order to separate
them)? (Make it in two separate concentric layers, that can be pulled apart
:).



Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 22:44:49 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:23:48 -0800
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: oleo-feline devices
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Hi biological avante-garde:

OF COURSE I have something to say about the proposed oleo-feline device.
Schlumlicker (1) did a similar experiment in a rare paper published in 1907
in the Journal of Margarine Studies. He used a wombat instead of a cat and
margarine instead of butter but there is some similarity somewhere if you
squinch up your mind real hard. The wombat bit Schlumlicker and ate the
margarine before it hit the floor so the results were ambiguous. No one ever
saw Schlumlicker or the wombat again. 
My 11 year old daughter suggests declawing the cat.  I would add that you
could resolve the problem of butter loss by attaching a small bottle of
liquified butter to the cats back so that centrifugal force will
continuously apply butter to the toast. 
The Oleo-feline system still has one flaw though: the butter must eventually
be resupplied and the cat must be fed.  The energy costs of these actions
must be factored in. And how is the mechanical connection made to the cat?
Is a rotor attached to the cat's tail? Are there members of the society for
prevention of cruelty to animals around?  All these questions need to be
answered IN DETAIL befrore even the most preliminary experiment is attempted.
                               greasily, Fred

1) "A New Rotational Effect In Mammal-Margarine Systems" by E.P. Schlumlicker
Journal Of Margarine Studies, V.4, N.3, p.107 (1907)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:16:59 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>,
        "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'"
	 <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: rotating magnetic field
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:54:26 -0800
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I've been trying to figure a way to create a rotating magnetic field, =
without moving parts. One pole would be fixed at the center, and the =
other would move radially - as if you had a bar magnet on a pivot, but =
without the mechanical motion. Ideally it would be a smooth rotation, =
not stepped, and eventually would like to be able to rotate it extremely =
fast.

Why? Why not? <g> Actually at this point all I have is some vague =
conceptual intuitive sense that such a critter could be useful in energy =
and gravity experiments.

Any ideas?

Dan Quickert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:26:57 1997
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Can anyone out there describe to me exactly or even approximately what
this device would look like or how it would configured?  I would be most
greatful.

Larry
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jerry wrote:
 
 Hi Larry!  Well, the device Bill Beaty describes is claimed to put out
a
 scalar beam from like pole magnet bound tightly together with a coil of
 wire fed through a DC motor.  The idea is that the noise from the DC
slot
 car motor, causes the magnetic fields to buck, producing a kind of
white
 or pink noise scalar.  It is claimed to affect matter and I don't know
if
 anyone has experimented with it on plants or other living tissue.
 
                Jerry W. ######   /   #######@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice :  (214) ###-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) ###-3501
#####Net - PO BOX 870716 - ########, Republic of Texas - 75187


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:27:01 1997
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From: "John R. Tooker" <jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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> toast and the cat will get very dizzy.  But maybe for a short time,
> energy could be drained off the system.  Only problem might be the cats
> claws.
> 
> Anyone want to try?
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
> Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
>                                           61 18 833 461  Mobile
I would, only I *don't* think any of my cats would appreciate it. <G>
Besides, I'd have to live with them afterwards, and I'm worried about what
they'd pull to get back at me..... :)
John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:30:37 1997
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

>All this leads to an interesting question:
>Is work required to separate the windings of a bifilar coil, while it is
>carrying a current (do you need to overcome a force, in order to separate
>them)? (Make it in two separate concentric layers, that can be pulled apart

and as they are pulled apart, each one's inductance increases...


Dan Quickert
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Subject: RE: oleo-feline devices
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Fred Epps wrote:

>The Oleo-feline system still has one flaw though: the butter must =
eventually
>be resupplied and the cat must be fed.  The energy costs of these =
actions

Well, it turns out that the butter may not need resupplying. If we go =
back a bit in the literature, there is the well-known phonomena of =
tigers (a form of cat) in a circular path eventually _turning into_ =
butter ( I forget the exact reference, but I believe one of the =
principals was named Sambo). I believe, though, that in that report the =
cat was rotating perpendicular to the gravitational field, so the effect =
may be somewhat different than in our current scenario. But if the =
effect is not dependent upon gravitational orientation, it remains a =
possibility that at some point the system may settle into a symmetrical =
state with butter on both sides of the bread, and just drop to the =
floor. However, it remains to be experimentally determined whether this =
might occur before the cat needs refueling.=20


Dan Quickert
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 02:04:46 1997
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From: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: rotating magnetic field
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On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Dan Quickert wrote:

> I've been trying to figure a way to create a rotating magnetic field,
> without moving parts. One pole would be fixed at the center, and the
> other would move radially - as if you had a bar magnet on a pivot, but
> without the mechanical motion. Ideally it would be a smooth rotation,
> not stepped, and eventually would like to be able to rotate it
> extremely fast.

Hi all,

	Well I think you could use a series of coils like the stator
windings of a induction motor. Perhaps using a core shaped as below to
bring the flux of one pole into the centre of the rings of coils:

	Core Shape:

	||	||	||			[]
	||	||	||			||
	||	||	||		    []======[]
	==================			||
						[]	Elevation
	       plan

	As many coils could be added as needed on the outside legs, and
a digital sequencer could be used to control BJT or MOSFET switches to
supply current in the proper order to the coils to create the rotating
magnetic field.

	If the coils are numbered sequentially around the device in a
clockwise direction switching in coils 1, 1&2, 2, 2&3, 3, 3&4, 4, 4&1...
would probably do the trick. Be careful to keep the magnitudes of the
currents right or else you will probably get a wobbling rotating field.
(This may be a good thing... Cycloid shaped field rotations at nuclear
resonance frequencies with a static bias field???)

	Sine drive currents with differing phases equal to their 
physical displacement would probably produce a superior field in terms
of symmetry and continuity.

Alan
--
Alan Yates				mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 02:36:13 1997
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi biological avante-garde:
> 
> OF COURSE I have something to say about the proposed oleo-feline device.
> Schlumlicker (1) did a similar experiment in a rare paper published in 1907
> in the Journal of Margarine Studies. He used a wombat instead of a cat and
> margarine instead of butter but there is some similarity somewhere if you
> squinch up your mind real hard. The wombat bit Schlumlicker and ate the
> margarine before it hit the floor so the results were ambiguous. No one ever
> saw Schlumlicker or the wombat again.
> My 11 year old daughter suggests declawing the cat.  I would add that you
> could resolve the problem of butter loss by attaching a small bottle of
> liquified butter to the cats back so that centrifugal force will
> continuously apply butter to the toast.
> The Oleo-feline system still has one flaw though: the butter must eventually
> be resupplied and the cat must be fed.  The energy costs of these actions
> must be factored in. And how is the mechanical connection made to the cat?
> Is a rotor attached to the cat's tail? Are there members of the society for
> prevention of cruelty to animals around?  All these questions need to be
> answered IN DETAIL befrore even the most preliminary experiment is attempted.
>                                greasily, Fred
> 
> 1) "A New Rotational Effect In Mammal-Margarine Systems" by E.P. Schlumlicker
> Journal Of Margarine Studies, V.4, N.3, p.107 (1907)

Hi Fred,

You crack me up.  Do you do the club circuit?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 02:46:06 1997
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> Perhaps this could be partially explained as follows.
> When the fields are building in a bifilar coil, they intercept the adjacent
> wires in such a way as to produce a "forward" rather than a "back" emf.

Correct.

> This essentially reduces the impedance (inductance?) of the coil, ensuring
> that little or no energy is required to build the fields.

Correct again.

> Looking a little deeper, this has some interesting consequences. E.g. it
> implies that no energy is "stored" in fields at all, only that work must be
> done to create a field

Correct.  We do work against the rising back EMF.

> (unless two opposing fields are created
> simultaneously), and that a collapsing field can do work. 

Correct.

> (Two opposing
> collapsing fields "do & un-do" work simultaneously, hence nothing gets
> done).

Correct.

> All this leads to an interesting question:
> Is work required to separate the windings of a bifilar coil, while it is
> carrying a current (do you need to overcome a force, in order to separate
> them)? (Make it in two separate concentric layers, that can be pulled apart
> :).

No, They are trying to repel each other already.  Look at the Gif of the
four wires and see how the inter wire fields are compressed and
distorted due to opposing fluxes.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 02:50:04 1997
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Hi all,

	I was thinking hard about net-non-inductors for hours today, and
after playing around with so vector calculus, I hit a brick wall.
Problems with infinity and the like.

	Here are some things I came up with, any ideas?

	Consider a single toroidal inductor in free space, as we connect
it to a current source a magnetic field starts to form inside its core
and using Poynting's vector (S=ExB) we can see that energy is flowing
into the coil core:

	     B field				B field
		||				  ||
		\/				  /\
   Current i   \||/		     Current i   \||/
	--->----==			  ---<----==
		==				  ==
	S ---->	== <---- S Poynting flow  S ----> == <---- S
		==				  ==
	--------==			  --------==
	       /||\				 /||\
		\/				  /\
		||				  ||

     (Viewed edge on, or using solenoids not toroids - the same thing)

	If we pass current in a similar coil in the reverse direction a
magnetic field will be generated, but in the opposite direction. The
vector cross product however is still in towards the coil.

	Now we place these coils on a common axis and form, the magnetic
fields cancel (macroscopically) and the Poynting vectors add. Energy is
still flowing into core of coil with no net magnetic field or
inductance. If the energy is still flowing into the core (at twice the
magnitude actually for the same current) and the energy stored in a non
inductor (U=0.5*L*i^2) is zero where did/dose it go?


   Current i    ~0 B field (net)
	--->----==---->---
		==
      2*S ---->	== <---- 2*S   Poynting flow
		==
	     ---==---
	     |	    |
	     --->----      (neglecting coil resistance)

	Sure the magnetic fields are still there it is just their vector
sum that is zero, but the inductance of the coil (in counter wound mode)
is very small or practically zero. So how can energy be flowing into the
coil? Can we recover this energy? Does it require work to get it in/out?
Does superposition still work in this case?

	Any Ideas, I don't know enough about the maths at high speeds
to make any predictions, but it looks strange?

Alan
--
Alan Yates				mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 03:08:11 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: rotating magnetic fields
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Hi Dan,
   Here's one way you could create a magnetic field that would rotate at any
velocity up to many times the velocity of light (assuming that mag fields
can do that).
   Picture a disc made of ferrous nonmagnetic material with low remanence.
In the center is a vertical magnet with one pole in contact with the disc.
Around the outside edge are a multitude of ferrous-core coils (I like 12)
attached to the disc and facing toward the center. Each of these coils is
attached to an IC precision comparator controlled coil driver circuit. Each
coil is triggered by the output of the comparator when an input signal
reaches a certain voltage level. The voltage levels that trigger each
comparator are made very slightly higher than the previous one. All the
comparators are connected in parallel by equal-length wires to a single
sawtooth wave generator with a high dV/dt slope and a high frequency.
   The gadget works this way: each coil is individually triggered, so each
coil has no time relationship to the one next to it. If the slope of the
input signal is high enough, two adjacent coils can be triggered at an
APPARENT velocity many times faster than light can travel around the edge of
the disc. The major necessity is that the frequency of the sawtooth match
the period of one rotation.  For instance if the sawtooth has a frequency of
10 Mhz and the disc has a circumference of 1 meter then the apparent
velocity around the disc is 10 million meters per second. That ought to make
those magnetic fields do some crazy things.
   Unfortunately a superluminal version of this idea would take some pretty
fancy design work. An even fancier one would use some synchronization source
like an cesium clock. Anybody have one of those handy? :-]
   A subluminal version that didn't require a great deal of accuracy could
be built by someone with some EE experience (not me)
   There's a version of this called the scissors or searchlight paradox: The
point where the scissor blades intersect or the spot that the searchlight
makes on the bottom of the clouds can travel at FTL speed even though no
material body is travelling that fast.
   Hope this helps...
                     FTL Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 03:35:32 1997
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Subject: bifilar coils and FTL velocities
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Hi Bifilarites--

   Sometime ago I posted some ideas about "standard" (nonscalar) waves and
currents that go faster than light ("superluminal effects in noninductive
coils"). I mentioned bifilar coils as a place to look for these. To reiterate:
Assume Einstein was never born and Maxwell reigns supreme: in this world
there is no speed of light limit to EM radiation. Perceived limits are
limits in perception, not in reality.

++++ The velocity of ANY signal or current is 1/(LC)-2 [square root], the
standard "telegraph equation" ++++

L= u (permeability of free space) is the magnetic limit of our ordinary
perceptions.
C= e (permittivity of free space) is the electric limit of our ordinary
perceptions.

Now logically L can be: 
> u
= u
< u
in the same way C can be: 
> e
= e
< e
There are then these logical possibilities: 
L > u, C > e   (always slower than light)
L > u, C = e   (always slower than light)
L = u, C > e   (always slower than light)
L = u, C = e   (the velocity of light)
L < u, C = e   (faster than light)
L = u, C < e   (faster than light)
L < u, C < e   (faster than light)
L > u, C < e   (sometimes faster, sometimes slower than light)
L < u, C > e   (sometimes faster, sometimes slower than light)

   Sorry for the quasi-mathematical mumbo-jumbo, but what I'm getting at
here is that there are possible RANGES of faster-than-light waves or
currents which have different properties than slow waves. At the same time
they are all basically EM phenomena so they can be created and manipulated
with electronic circuitry. As an example, a bifilar coil is SOMETIMES a
resonator for a frequency in one or the other of the FTL ranges depending on
the capacitance associated with it. If the capacitance is more than e (which
is usually the case for a bifilar coil designed without attempting to
minimize capacitance), the coil will be an FTL device IF THE PRODUCT LC IS
LESS THAN ue. If the product LC is more than ue, the coil will have unusual
properties but will not operate in the FTL ranges.  
   These parameters now allow us to design resonators and circuit components
with specific FTL velocities or frequencies of operation.  For example:

   A close-coupled bifilar nonferrous wire winding around a cylinder of
Bismuth or almost any organic material with a diamagnetic (negative)
permeability, with interleaved foil layers to reduce capacitance will have
(L < u, C >e, LC < ue) and will be a true detector or modulator of FTL
energies. I predict that such a coil placed in a standard-EM insulated
environment (faraday cage, mumetal housing) will have a small but detectible
voltage output. The lower the C, the higher the output, based on the
supposition that the power in FTL bands increases proportionally with
frequency. It may or may not be necessary to interpose a coil whose 1/(LC)-2
is a whole number fraction of the 1/(LC)-2 of the FTL coil (in English, it's
on a subharmonic) between the FTL coil and the test equipment to provide
energetic matching.

   The Faile-Reiter coil described on the INE website is (from the
description) very similar to what I am proposing. It is a braided,
noninductive coil in a (grounded?) pipe that porduces a small voltage
output. There is also an overunity device invented by Sheldon Nidle in the
1970's that has similar characteristics. As I said in the other post on this
subject, I believe that this is the secret of the Moray device. Moray was a
straightforward person of his day- no scalars for him, just plain ol'
Maxwellian EM.
More to say on this later.  
                                Fred
   

  



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 03:37:21 1997
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Fred Epps wrote:
>
> Hi biological avante-garde:
>
> OF COURSE I have something to say about the proposed oleo-feline device.
> Schlumlicker (1) did a similar experiment in a rare paper published in 1907
> in the Journal of Margarine Studies. He used a wombat instead of a cat and

comic snip--

> prevention of cruelty to animals around?  All these questions need to be
> answered IN DETAIL befrore even the most preliminary experiment is attempted.
>                                greasily, Fred
>
> 1) "A New Rotational Effect In Mammal-Margarine Systems" by E.P. Schlumlicker
> Journal Of Margarine Studies, V.4, N.3, p.107 (1907)


Re: Oleo/Feline O/U Device:

Dear Fred:

I've heard of the landmark work of E.P. Schlumlicker in 1907.  You may be
interested in the follow-up work of Dr. Von Schlick relative to Dr.
Schlumlicker:

Dr. Ludwig Von Schlick at the University of Vienna sau Sage, published a
seminal paper years ago [1929] in which he had a modified experiment
regarding the cat and the buttered toast.  Seems that he coated a cat's
back with honey and stuck the toast firmly upon its back.  In an attempt to
overcome entropic losses as the Cat/Toast Combo [C/TC] rotated in mid-air,
he had inserted series of small, but powerful, permanent magnets in the
posterior of the cat and enclosed the Cat/Toast Combo in a thin,
carefully-carved hollow wooden sphere upon which a conductor coil was
meticulously wound.  At a precisely timed moment the C/TC was released from
a pre-designed harness inside the sphere.  As the C/TC began to rotate,
electrical output was generated.

Much to his surprise, Dr. Schlick discovered that once the rotation of the
system reached a certain spin velocity, the C/TC mass tended to remain in
motion regardless of whether the cat died and/or the buttered toast finally
disintegrated and was flung off the cat's back.  Dr. Schlick published
claims of "over-unity" via the Vienna sau Sage Press, but they were never
corroborated due to the unexpected demise of Professor Von Schlick when he
choked to death on a piece of Weiner Snitzel during the Octoberfest of
1929.  [Note: In an attempt to avoid the paper inflations plaguing Austria,
he had apparently invested heavily in the U.S. Stock market and was
concerned about his assets.  This had led to a behavior of 'reckless
abandon' ultimately traceable to his relations with his mother -- according
to his personal friend, a Dr. Freud of Vienna.]

As a result, a critical secret died with Professor Von Schlick --- one that
without which, the successful replication of the parameters of the test are
impossible:  he failed to leave any record of how he managed to
successfully apply the permanent magnets.

Source: "The Published Anals of C/TC Research", Vol. XXVII, No. 18, pgs.
256-289, November, 1929, University of Vienna sau Sage Press, Austria.

Evan


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 04:11:19 1997
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> 1)  Diamagnetic materials have a negative susceptibility and thus a negative
> permeability.  Looking at my Handbook of Chemistry and Physics the three
> most negative materials I see are:
> Bismuth  -280.1
> Hydrated Aluminum Trisulphate -323.0
> Tetra-i-pentylammonium Bromide -378
> 
> Now if you enclose one end of a magnetic in Bismuth the field will still get
> through to the other end but it'll sure be funny looking- it might have to
> go back through the body of the magnet to do it! Maybe Greg can simulate this.

HI Fred,

The diamagnetic efect is very small.  The normal free air, flux contours
will hardly alter ay all.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 04:22:12 1997
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> >4) Observe that as cat & butter toast assy reaches approx 100-200mm from
> >floor, both will fight to reach the floor first and rotate, just above
> >the floor, at a high speed.
> 
> No actually they only do a quarter turn, until both cat and toast are
> horizontal. Then they both fall to the floor without any further rotation.

Hi Robyn,

Don't forget about the moving cats claws.  The dynamics could be
simulated on QField ver 99 (runs on a Cray, sim time around 2 hours if
we can get enough mesh points around the claws).  Or we could do an
actual test, if the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty
to Animals) looks the other way.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 04:27:03 1997
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From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Subject: Re: Cat Powered Anti-gravity and Free Energy System
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John R. Tooker wrote:
> 
> I would, only I *don't* think any of my cats would appreciate it. <G>
> Besides, I'd have to live with them afterwards, and I'm worried about what
> they'd pull to get back at me..... :)
> John

Hi John,

Me too.  I live with a lovely silver chincilla.  Everytime I get close
to her with a piece of toast and a funny look in my eyes, she is off
like a flash.  Close behind is my daughter saying "No way Dad, not with
Mira".

I ask, why is the progress of science always so hard?  

So many ideas, so little time, so few belivers, so few cats.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 04:33:48 1997
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Subject: Re: bifilar coils and FTL velocities
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi Bifilarites--
> 
>    A close-coupled bifilar nonferrous wire winding around a cylinder of
> Bismuth or almost any organic material with a diamagnetic (negative)
> permeability, with interleaved foil layers to reduce capacitance will have
> (L < u, C >e, LC < ue) and will be a true detector or modulator of FTL
> energies. I predict that such a coil placed in a standard-EM insulated
> environment (faraday cage, mumetal housing) will have a small but detectible
> voltage output. The lower the C, the higher the output, based on the
> supposition that the power in FTL bands increases proportionally with
> frequency. It may or may not be necessary to interpose a coil whose 1/(LC)-2
> is a whole number fraction of the 1/(LC)-2 of the FTL coil (in English, it's
> on a subharmonic) between the FTL coil and the test equipment to provide
> energetic matching.
> 
>    The Faile-Reiter coil described on the INE website is (from the
> description) very similar to what I am proposing. It is a braided,
> noninductive coil in a (grounded?) pipe that porduces a small voltage
> output. There is also an overunity device invented by Sheldon Nidle in the
> 1970's that has similar characteristics. As I said in the other post on this
> subject, I believe that this is the secret of the Moray device. Moray was a
> straightforward person of his day- no scalars for him, just plain ol'
> Maxwellian EM.
> More to say on this later.

Hi Fred,

Its the first few nsec of current flow and flux generation that we need
to explore.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 04:49:16 1997
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Fred Epps wrote:

>    The gadget works this way: each coil is individually triggered, so each
> coil has no time relationship to the one next to it. If the slope of the
> input signal is high enough, two adjacent coils can be triggered at an
> APPARENT velocity many times faster than light can travel around the edge of
> the disc. The major necessity is that the frequency of the sawtooth match
> the period of one rotation.  For instance if the sawtooth has a frequency of
> 10 Mhz and the disc has a circumference of 1 meter then the apparent
> velocity around the disc is 10 million meters per second. That ought to make
> those magnetic fields do some crazy things.

HI Fred,

The switching may be TFL across the diameter, but the generated mag
fields will travel (radiate?) outward from the wires generating the
fields a light speed.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 04:51:37 1997
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From: mindtech@om.com.au
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:58:43 +1000
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>There is also an overunity device invented by Sheldon Nidle in the
>1970's that has similar characteristics. 
>

He worked with Peter Markovich. The passive device consisted of a copper
sphere with center tap atop a tubular copper mast. Accumulated (scalar)
energy flowed both through the straight mast and a (longer) superposed
winding, thereby creating a time based differential between the two at the
other end. The above tube ended in an incomplete circle, with the coil
terminated, at the distal end, to a secondary coil _counterwound_ on a
larger diameter (circular) tube running parallel to the first. The
"voltage-like" output of the secondary was directed through a load back to
the outer surface of the copper sphere. It was said to be a derivation of
Tesla's magnifying transmitter.

Peter Nielsen, E.E.



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 10:10:12 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
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Thanks for all the suggestions. *But* :-) they're all variations on the =
theme of
put-lots-of-coils-in-a-circle-and-pulse-them, which I had already =
thought of. I'm looking for something a bit more elegant, if I may be so =
picky. Could be we have to think outside the linear coilform for this =
one. Could there be a Hamel-type wobble in there? It may have to sit on =
the back burner for a while and simmer.

Dan Quickert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 12:21:27 1997
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From: tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu (Tim Vaughan)
Subject: Markovitch/Nidle Coil Fraud (Re: bifilar coils)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:01:53 GMT
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I wouldn't bet a nickel on the Markovitch contraption.  I talked with
some of the people involved with this including a character in San Jose,
Calif. name Dr. Vogel.  The Markovtich device was brought to his house.
The thing that makes it extremely suspect is that the inventor would not
let people take the coils apart and it had large copper pipe in the
middle large enough to hold a bunch of dry cell batteries.  It also put
out DC current !

I was completely convinced that this was a fraud as were others, and
there has been no further evidence presented to change that opinion
since.  Funny how the stories of these frauds just circulate like
computer viruses in the free energy subculture.

Like so many of these myths, this one just won't die.  It should !

    However, having said that I would not place Thomas Henry Moray in
this category.  Moray did have something very significant.  Unlike
things like the aforementioned invention, the Moray Radiant Energy
invention gains credibility with closer inspection.  So sad that the
Moray children have decided to allow their fathers work to rot away.

It looks like others like Correa, will supersede Moray as the parents of
this technology in the Future.

Tim    
    
    >
>There is also an overunity device invented by Sheldon Nidle in the ->
>1970's that has similar characteristics.  -> >  ->   -> He worked with
Peter Markovich. The passive device consisted of a copper -> sphere with
center tap atop a tubular copper mast. Accumulated (scalar) -> energy
flowed both through the straight mast and a (longer) superposed ->
winding, thereby creating a time based differential between the two  ->
the other end. The above tube ended in an incomplete circle, with the  ->
coil terminated, at the distal end, to a secondary coil   ->
_counterwound_ on a larger diameter (circular) tube running parallel  ->
to the first. The "voltage-like" output of the secondary was directed
-> through a load back to the outer surface of the copper sphere. It was
-> said to be a derivation of Tesla's magnifying transmitter. ->   ->
Peter Nielsen, E.E. ->   ->   ->   

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 15:52:52 1997
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From: mindtech@om.com.au
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>I wouldn't bet a nickel on the Markovitch contraption.  I talked with
>some of the people involved with this including a character in San Jose,
>Calif. name Dr. Vogel.  The Markovtich device was brought to his house.
>The thing that makes it extremely suspect is that the inventor would not
>let people take the coils apart and it had large copper pipe in the
>middle large enough to hold a bunch of dry cell batteries.  It also put
>out DC current !
>

It may have been a fraud, but was rather cleverly constructed ... to those
who know what to look for. They obviously put a lot of time and work into
chasing something. The fact(?) that it wasn't taken apart in public does not
necessarily constitute fraud. For example, the coils may have contained a
proprietary substance. The DC output was claimed to be a result of
rectification.

>I was completely convinced that this was a fraud as were others, and
>there has been no further evidence presented to change that opinion
>since. 
>

Are you saying you _saw_ it? Who are the "others" of similar opinion, and
their qualifications? What test did it fail?

Peter M. Nielsen



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 16:14:35 1997
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Subject: bifilar coils
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Greg says
It's the first few nsec of current flow and flux generation that we need
to explore.

I agree that is a very worthy topic for exploration, but what about treating
the bifilar coil as a reciever or resonator of FTL energies? Maybe instead
of always putting current into it we should try looking for an output from it...

Alan Yates says
	Now we place these coils on a common axis and form, the magnetic
fields cancel (macroscopically) and the Poynting vectors add. Energy is
still flowing into core of coil with no net magnetic field or
inductance. If the energy is still flowing into the core (at twice the
magnitude actually for the same current) and the energy stored in a non
inductor (U=0.5*L*i^2) is zero where did/dose it go?

I suggest that this energy is converted into FTL current. If you substitute
0 inductance into the transmission line equation you have v= 1 divided by 0.
This is supposed to be mathematical nonsense, but I would just call it
infinite velocity and leave it at that. Maybe we should take this seriously
and start looking for FTL signals from these coils.

Bob Shannon says

It's very close Greg.  Please note that we need more than two bifilar
windings to get really significant net non-inductance (and missing field
energy!) and cancelation.

Why? Inductance is additive in series windings and reduced in parallel
windings. It seems like you would get closer to zero real inductance by
paralleling a set of bifilar loops than by mimicking the shape of a normal
coil. Milne, in his experiments in FTL transmission through wires, used a
one-loop "coil", not bifilar, that extended around a city block. The self
inductance was thus close to zero. He discovered that his signal arrived in
three parts: a simultaneous component, a 2c component, and a c component.
In my view a bifilar coil is just one way of reaching the same result
without wiring your neighborhood. (I know someone will ask me for the
reference..I'll find it)

By the way, didn't know that Markovitch device was a fraud. Are you sure?
Actually looks pretty good on paper..and he patented it. Maybe I'm naive,
but why would someone patent a fraud?

                     Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 16:44:33 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: rotating fields
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Hi Dan and all,

   Looks like everybody had the same idea to create rotating magnetic
fields. Off the subject, but reminds me of the old controversy about whether
the lines of force rotate with a rotating magnet or stay still and move
through the magnet. Relevance to the N-machine, homopolar generator and all
that. I think someone, name of Das Gupta showed that there was no way to
tell by experiment which was the case.
   I know you wanted to get away from moving parts but I suspect that the
interesting effects actually show up with the rotation of matter with the
magnetic field. 
   You could make an experimental platform with a metal disc and one pole of
a bar magnet in the center. Another magnet is pointed with the opposite pole
toward the edge. An observer situated on the disc as it rotates experiences
a magnetic field moving through metal and thus a current. An observer off
the disc experiences metal moving through magnetic field and thus a current:
classically they are equivalent.  But there is plenty of evidence of other
energetic effects from moving mass (see my posts on the Blackett
effect,etc). So even though WE call the situations identical in our physics,
NATURE does not call them identical. interesting...
                                   Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 17:19:40 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
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	 <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: rotating magnetic field
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Fred Epps (on freenrg-l) wrote:
  (snip)
  >I know you wanted to get away from moving parts but I suspect that =
the
  >interesting effects actually show up with the rotation of matter with =
the
  >magnetic field.=20
  (snip)

What I think I'm after, Fred, is the interesting effects of the rotation =
of a field in "space".

  (snip)
  >So even though WE call the situations identical in our physics,
  >NATURE does not call them identical. interesting...
  (snip)

Which is why I'm not willing to call switched fields identical to a =
rotating one! <g>

and Rick Monteverde (on Vortex-l) wrote:

  >I'd think if these coils were close together, as one field was =
decaying,
  >the one next to it is energizing - and their fields are superimposed
  >fairly smoothly. You're too picky.<g> Time the sequential firings =
with a

 Yes, I'm very picky, maybe too much. But apparently so is nature (seen =
any overunity or antigravity lately?).

  >4046 chip feeding to the gates of MOSFETs for the current to the =
coils,
  >and you can have variable speed up to around 18mhz or so per =
individual
  >pulse. In a six "cylinder" version, that's 3mhz rotation - 180 =
million
  >RPM. Fast enough?

Yeah, 180 Mrpm is certainly fast enough! Sounds like an interesting =
thing to do, and I really really do appreciate these ideas. And if I =
can't figure it out the way I'd like I'll fall back on one of them.

Not wanting to offend anyone, but I'm going to continue to be particular =
as much as I can get away with it (though I'd much rather be wavelike =
;-). I'm not after superimposed fields. What I'm after here is the =
magnetic field uniformly spinning through space/whatever at high angular =
velocity. Hopefully (here I go again) without a bunch of wires and coils =
in the midst of the field to tangle things up, because there are things =
I'd like to do with the field... I'm thinking this could be useful in =
gravity experiments, perhaps.

Maybe can't get it figured out the way I'd like to have it work, maybe =
we can't do it with our current technology, maybe it's not even =
important - but I'll keep thinking on it.
Thanks again!

By the way, I'm pretty new on these lists, and am favorably impressed =
with how helpful and collaborative everyone (almost) is. You guys are =
great! (well, guys are all I've heard from so far - why's that?)

Dan

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 17:38:25 1997
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From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." <jshaffer@csrlink.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Markovitch/Nidle Coil Fraud (Re: bifilar coils)
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> From: Tim Vaughan <tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu>
> I wouldn't bet a nickel on the Markovitch contraption.  

FYI, the only thing Sheldon Nidle has been inventing lately is wild apocalyptic
predictions which fail to come true.  For further information, consult any
UFO-oriented newsgroup.


"I don't want the world -- I just want your half."
	--T.M.B.G.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 17:40:14 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:23:47 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions. *But* :-) they're all variations on the theme of
> put-lots-of-coils-in-a-circle-and-pulse-them, which I had already thought of. I'm
> looking for something a bit more elegant, if I may be so picky. Could be we have > to think outside the linear coilform for this one. Could there be a Hamel-type > wobble in there? It may have to sit on the back burner for a while and simmer.
> 
> Dan Quickert

Well Dan, I've not really found any limits on what can be done by the
tried and true methods so far.  If simple is what your after, what's
wrong with the crossed dipoles I suggested?

Hammel-type wobble?  I think the Hammel wobble is fairly well understood
from the postings.  If you could give me a better idea of what your
after, I might be more able to help.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 17:54:18 1997
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Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> Fred Epps (on freenrg-l) wrote:
>   (snip)
>   >I know you wanted to get away from moving parts but I suspect that the
>   >interesting effects actually show up with the rotation of matter with the
>   >magnetic field.
>   (snip)
> 
> What I think I'm after, Fred, is the interesting effects of the rotation of a
> field in "space".
> 
>   (snip)
>   >So even though WE call the situations identical in our physics,
>   >NATURE does not call them identical. interesting...
>   (snip)
> 
> Which is why I'm not willing to call switched fields identical to a rotating > one! <g>

So use sine waves in quatrature, no switching, just uniform rotation. 
You might look into my old posts on this subject in relation to "Low
Energy Worm Holes".

> and Rick Monteverde (on Vortex-l) wrote:
> 
>   >I'd think if these coils were close together, as one field was decaying,
>   >the one next to it is energizing - and their fields are superimposed
>   >fairly smoothly. You're too picky.<g> Time the sequential firings with a
> 
>  Yes, I'm very picky, maybe too much. But apparently so is nature (seen any > overunity or antigravity lately?).

Again, use sine waves and crossed dipoles.  It's simple enough, and
gives uniform rotation as well.
 
>   >4046 chip feeding to the gates of MOSFETs for the current to the coils,
>   >and you can have variable speed up to around 18mhz or so per individual
>   >pulse. In a six "cylinder" version, that's 3mhz rotation - 180 million
>   >RPM. Fast enough?
> 
> Yeah, 180 Mrpm is certainly fast enough! Sounds like an interesting thing to 
> do, and I really really do appreciate these ideas. And if I can't figure it 
> out the way I'd like I'll fall back on one of them.
> 
> Not wanting to offend anyone, but I'm going to continue to be particular as 
> much as I can get away with it (though I'd much rather be wavelike ;-). I'm not
> after superimposed fields. What I'm after here is the magnetic field uniformly > spinning through space/whatever at high angular velocity. Hopefully (here I go > again) without a bunch of wires and coils in the midst of the field to tangle > things up, 
because there are things I'd like to do with the field... I'm > thinking this could be useful in gr

Ahhh, I see!  I think I know what your up to here.  It CAN be done!

> Maybe can't get it figured out the way I'd like to have it work, maybe we can't
> do it with our current technology, maybe it's not even important - but I'll keep
> thinking on it.
> Thanks again!
> 
> By the way, I'm pretty new on these lists, and am favorably impressed with how > helpful and collaborative everyone (almost) is. You guys are great! (well, guys
> are all I've heard from so far - why's that?)
> 
> Dan

Ok Dan, to have the center of the rotating field free of physical
structures used to produce the field, we must resort to a cubic array of
four loops, two X axis, and two Y axis coils.  These coil pairs are
conected in parallel, in what's called a Hemholtz arangement. (I thought
I touched on this in a private email, but I was probably unclear)

The X and Y coil pairs are again fed with quatrature waves, and will
produce a uniform field in rotation.  You may think that the use of
field summing will cause problems, but we can actually reach rotational
velocities equal to C within the array, and all sorts of odd things
start to happen.

How can we get such high rotational velocities if there is not enough
time for the fields to propogate across the array?  Remenber that the
whole of the loop is the wave front emitter, not just a point at the
center of the loop.

If the loops are less than satisfactory, we need to use a phase pair of
what is known as a broad-side array to generate constant phase plane
waves.  The details on this can be found in a good antenna theory text.

This will 'get you where you want to go'.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 20:16:36 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:21:04 -0800
From: Scarry Larry <lsradk@csnsys.com>
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Scarry Larry wrote:
 
 Can anyone out there describe to me exactly or even approximately what
 this device would look like or how it would configured?  I would be
most
 greatful.
 
 Larry

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Jerry wrote:
 
  Hi Larry!  Well, the device Bill Beaty describes is claimed to put out
 a
  scalar beam from like pole magnet bound tightly together with a coil
of
  wire fed through a DC motor.  The idea is that the noise from the DC
 slot
  car motor, causes the magnetic fields to buck, producing a kind of
 white
  or pink noise scalar.  It is claimed to affect matter and I don't know
 if
  anyone has experimented with it on plants or other living tissue.
 
                 Jerry W. ######   /   #######@keelynet.com
         http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) ###-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) ###-3501
 #####Net - PO BOX 870716 - ########, Republic of Texas - 75187


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 22:34:41 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>,
        "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'"
	 <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: rotating magnetic field
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:02:26 -0800
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Thanks, all.

I think I'm beginning to see some directions to take this thing. You've =
given me some good info and clues about where I need to learn more. =
Gonna sit back and cogitate on it for a while, maybe a long while. Hey, =
it's turned into full-bore sunny Spring here and I think it's time to =
get up into the hills and test the energy flow from Earth to Dan's toes =
and upward. Might cause an inspirational spin!

Dan

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 22:45:45 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:54:42 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Iron Butterfly?
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I just saw a Strange Universe story about one of the members of the rock
group Iron Butterfly. It seems that this person was also a brilliant
scientist who discovered the secret to speed of light travel. One day, he
suddenly called all of his friends and relatives and told them goodbye and
was never seen or heard from since.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 23:33:19 1997
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From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves)
Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: More Hamel Spinning Tops
Date: 18 Mar 1997 23:11:15 GMT
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Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK
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Michael Randall wrote:
Next going to try with magnetic suspension. Planning to try first on
attaching a floating shaft to each of the two inner floating magnet
rotators. This would confine the rotors over the fixed top and bottom
magnetic plates (and above each other in the center) and thereby eliminating
the need for the side magnets. The shafts could wobble a little to allow the
Butterfly Effect to kick-in. Looking for continuous rotation and torque
(with fingers crossed!). What line where you thinking of?

I have shifted away from the idea that the side magnets are a necessary
nuisance and have come to think that any interesting effects will occur at
the perifery of the device. I now think that the central magnets are just the
control mechanism. I'm not sure that "think" is the right word to be using
here!
Plan is to line bottom inner edge and inner wall of container with magnetic
strip and float a lipped disc in it. This disc should only need three magnets
out and three down at 120 degree to float; more to increase stability.
Aluminium saucepans suitably sawn about should provide the metalwork okay. (A
wok would be a more traditional flying saucer shape but only the non-stick
ones are aluminium and how would I stick magnets to teflon?!)
When that's done some ring magnets in the middle and try the Hamel Spinner
technique on them, eh? Another disc on top of the first and a lid on that,
eventually.
Even if it doesn't fly, just getting bits to float will provide me with an
executive toy to die for!
There is mention on the Hamel site of red granite bearings? Searl seems to be
effecting a particular crystalline-like structure in his magnets by his
magnetising methods? Maybe I'll have to throw in a handful of epsom salts?
Gets people going. Hmmm. 

Best wishes, Geoff Greaves

P.S. Our cat had managed to wriggle out of the harness and lick all the
butter off within 2.34 metres of release.
----------------------------------------
>From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk
----------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 00:42:51 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:30:37 +1300
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Paul Callender <klicco@es.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Scalar Magnetics
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>Scarry Larry wrote:
>
> Can anyone out there describe to me exactly or even approximately what
> this device would look like or how it would configured?  I would be
>most
> greatful.

Working on the same type of subject I have been amazed at the lack of
decent practical literature on scalar electromagnetics. Bearden's papers
are quite interesting but it takes a lot of reding between the lines to
figure something practical from them (if you are not a  scalar
electrophysicist).What would a scalar interferometer be made of? Has anyone
had any success with producing interesting effects with scalar waves? I
have been researching the caduceus coil  and was curious about the amount
of success people have had with it or other devices when sending and
receiving, coupling etc. scalar waves . Any practical 'build it yourself'
files out there?
Cheers,

...................

Paul Callender
Email: klicco@es.co.nz
Christchurch 5, New Zealand

"Just when you think you've got it, it finds another way to go wrong."


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 02:29:40 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 03:15:40 -0700 (MST)
From: "John R. Tooker" <jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Iron Butterfly?
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I saw that one too. I believe his last name was Kramer. I'm of the opinion
that somehow, he may have gotten involved in the alleged time travel
experiments supposedly going on in the "abandoned" Montauk afb, on
northern Long Island. The map the remote viewers drew looked suspiciously
like a lake in the Montauk area. 
Have you read "The Montauk Project: Experiments in time"?
John


On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 atech@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> 
> I just saw a Strange Universe story about one of the members of the rock
> group Iron Butterfly. It seems that this person was also a brilliant
> scientist who discovered the secret to speed of light travel. One day, he
> suddenly called all of his friends and relatives and told them goodbye and
> was never seen or heard from since.
> 
> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 04:44:01 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:15:14 +0400
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (otecnor)
Subject: Cheap source for magnets
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Hello everybody,

Most of us using magnets and requiring different shapes and pole positions,
I would like to intoduce "TAPARIA MAGNETICS" a magnet manufacturer located
in India (but will ship Fedex or others.. any where in the World)

President name : PARAG. J. RELE
email : rele@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in
I am pretty sure you will find the prices attractive...
Best Wishes to All

FRANCK ROUSSEL
http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor
otecnor@emirates.net.ae
Tel: -- 971 4 341 335
Fax: -- 971 4 341 271
Po box 4613 Dubai
United Arab Emirates
Time: GMT + 4


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 06:39:17 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:24:24 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703191424.IAA28334@firefly.prairienet.org>
From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: rotating magnetic field
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>> Bob Shannon wrote:
>
>Well Dan, I've not really found any limits on what can be done by the
>tried and true methods so far.  If simple is what your after, what's
>wrong with the crossed dipoles I suggested?
>

Ah yes, circular polarization. Feed two crossed dipoles with RF at 90 
degree phase differences. Most of us amateur satellite communicators use 
these antennas regularly, as the RF signals from satellites are 
circularly polarized.

Zack


--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 10:39:02 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:37:42 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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atech@ix.netcom.com wrote:


> I just saw a Strange Universe story about one of the members of the rock
> group Iron Butterfly. It seems that this person was also a brilliant
> scientist who discovered the secret to speed of light travel. One day, he
> suddenly called all of his friends and relatives and told them goodbye and
> was never seen or heard from since.

Like they say: "Inna gadda da vida, baby".

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 11:22:06 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:19:49 +0100
From: Roger Natanaelsson <natanael@swipnet.se>
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Hi all,
I like to have your comments, 
The observation I have made about magnets: It started with a computer
monitor. As a test I put a strong magnet close to the screen, and when
doing that I noticed  that the magnet affected the display so there was
color-pattern on screen.The monitor was power on, and with a grey
background as a start.Away from screen bigger pattern, weak magnetic
field, and closer=smaller dot-pattern.
The pattern was with a center, in this case yellow, and around this
yellow was:three blue and three red. Simple test take 7coins of same
size, they all 6 fit around the center. The secquence was
red,blue,red....The important thing is not the colors, they can change
but, that it was repeted in a specific pattern=the same field,
manifested the same color.A north-pole did get the same pattern from
different magnets, same for south-pole.When I rotated the magnet there
was no change of pattern ! If I moved the pole beside the axis going
thru n---->s there was a direct respone of pattern.But not when rotated
!

In 1893, Keely, in reply to the question, "What do you include in the
polar, force?"
answered:
"Magnetism,electricity, and gravital sympathy; each stream of force
composed
of three currents which  make up the governing conditions of the
controlling
medium of the universe."

regards
Roger N.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 12:08:44 1997
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From: Steve Ekwall <ekwall2@diac.com>
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On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Roger Natanaelsson wrote:
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:19:49 +0100
> From: Roger Natanaelsson <natanael@swipnet.se>
> Subject: 3-Magnetic Fields ?
> Hi all,
> I like to have your comments, 
> The observation I have made about magnets: It started with a computer
> monitor. As a test I put a strong magnet close to the screen, and when
> doing that I noticed  that the magnet affected the display so there was
> color-pattern on screen.The monitor was power on, and with a grey
> background as a start.Away from screen bigger pattern, weak magnetic
> field, and closer=smaller dot-pattern.
> The pattern was with a center, in this case yellow, and around this
> yellow was:three blue and three red. Simple test take 7coins of same
> size, they all 6 fit around the center. The secquence was
> red,blue,red....The important thing is not the colors, they can change
> but, that it was repeted in a specific pattern=the same field,
> manifested the same color.A north-pole did get the same pattern from
> different magnets, same for south-pole.When I rotated the magnet there
> was no change of pattern ! If I moved the pole beside the axis going
> thru n---->s there was a direct respone of pattern.But not when rotated
> !
> 
> In 1893, Keely, in reply to the question, "What do you include in the
> polar, force?"
> answered:
> "Magnetism,electricity, and gravital sympathy; each stream of force
> composed
> of three currents which  make up the governing conditions of the
> controlling
> medium of the universe."
> 
> regards
> Roger N.
> 
> 
Check out your local radio shack for a "DEGAUSSING RING" .. if you keep up
with these 'experiments' you will NEED it to restore your monitor -back-
to its original mode.. see instructions in manual for 'WHY & HOW' it
works!  -=se=-


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 13:42:08 1997
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From: Hawkeye <havveye@execpc.com>
To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Thesta-Distatika
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:39:37 -0600
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I was wondering If anyone has any ideas on how the Thesta-Distatika works?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 14:14:30 1997
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:13:33 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: rotating fields
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Regarding whether magnetic field rotates with magnet, I have paper in which
experiments were done which (if we believe the experiments) answered the
question, or at least a large part of the question.  One can probably still
come up with configurations the experiments did not apply to.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 16:12:47 1997
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From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." <jshaffer@csrlink.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Iron Butterfly?
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:42:49 -0500
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> From: atech@ix.netcom.com
> I just saw a Strange Universe story about one of the members of the rock
> group Iron Butterfly. It seems that this person was also a brilliant
> scientist who discovered the secret to speed of light travel. One day, he
> suddenly called all of his friends and relatives and told them goodbye and
> was never seen or heard from since.

I've heard two similar versions.  One said he was working on FTL
*communications*, the other said travel.  Both of them agree that one night he
called someone, I don't remember who, to say something along the lines of "I've
made a breakthrough on my father's theory", then the next day he called the
police and said "This is Phillip Taylor Kramer, and I'm going to kill myself."

This business of announcing a breakthrough and then killing oneself sounds an
awful lot like Morris Jessup...


"I don't want the world -- I just want your half."
	--T.M.B.G.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 19:55:13 1997
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atech@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> I just saw a Strange Universe story about one of the members of the rock
> group Iron Butterfly. It seems that this person was also a brilliant
> scientist who discovered the secret to speed of light travel. One day, he
> suddenly called all of his friends and relatives and told them goodbye and
> was never seen or heard from since.

He is now the artist formerly known as Prince ;)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 09:55:39 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 12:20:34 -0500 (EST)
From: John Alexander Lotoski <jalotosk@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: rotating fields
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On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 Keasy@aol.com wrote:

> Regarding whether magnetic field rotates with magnet, I have paper in which
> experiments were done which (if we believe the experiments) answered the
> question, or at least a large part of the question.  One can probably still
> come up with configurations the experiments did not apply to.

	Can you post the reference to the paper please?

	Thank you.

		John

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 10:53:19 1997
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Message-ID: <33313B02.708E@tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:26:26 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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Subject: Re: Markovitch/Nidle Coil Fraud (Re: bifilar coils)
References: <199703190118.RAA12916@mx2.eskimo.com>
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Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote:
> 
> > From: Tim Vaughan <tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu>
> > I wouldn't bet a nickel on the Markovitch contraption.
> 
> FYI, the only thing Sheldon Nidle has been inventing lately is wild apocalyptic
> predictions which fail to come true.  For further information, consult any
> UFO-oriented newsgroup.
> 
> "I don't want the world -- I just want your half."
>         --T.M.B.G.

I don't want the world, I want all of them, or I'll settle for the
smoking ruins of this one.  ;->   We all know that in the end, it will
come down to the cockaroaches living in designer colored tupperware
condos.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 11:02:28 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:23:18 +0000
From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
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Subject: Re: Scalar Magnetics
References: <32F15AA4.56F6@csnsys.com> <32F1870F.145@keelynet.com>
	 <332E3E0E.5042@csnsys.com> <l03010d01af55f44ca979@[202.49.240.87]>
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Paul Callender wrote:
> 
> >Scarry Larry wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone out there describe to me exactly or even approximately what
> > this device would look like or how it would configured?  I would be
> >most
> > greatful.
> 
> Working on the same type of subject I have been amazed at the lack of
> decent practical literature on scalar electromagnetics. Bearden's papers
> are quite interesting but it takes a lot of reding between the lines to
> figure something practical from them (if you are not a  scalar
> electrophysicist).What would a scalar interferometer be made of? Has anyone
> had any success with producing interesting effects with scalar waves? I
> have been researching the caduceus coil  and was curious about the amount
> of success people have had with it or other devices when sending and
> receiving, coupling etc. scalar waves . Any practical 'build it yourself'
> files out there?
> Cheers,

Indeed there are.  Please check Bill's web page, in the Weird Science
section, under the Not your Average Construction Projects section. 
There is a small assortment of well tested scalar devices.

What would a scalar interferomter consiste of?

Basically, it consists of a pair of scalar wave generators (often
conventional EM transmitters with an impedance matching network that
feeds a scalar translator) with a controlled phase angle between them,
and a system to bias these transmitters relative to the targets ground
reference.

In practice, the transmitters can range from Tesla coils up to reflex
klystrons or magnetrons.  Phasing systems can be the relative placement
of the transmitters, transmission lines, or fancy phase locked loop
electronics.

The translators themselves can take the form of bifilar coils, phased
arrays of EM dipoles, ionized plasma, or lord knows what (inclusing yet
more transmission lines and summing nodes).  The translator design is
most often driven by the desitred frequancy of operation just as antenna
design is driven by the desired frequancy and emission pattern.

The DC offset system can be as crude or advanced as the available
equipment allows, ranging from Van-DeGraff generators, high voltage
multipliers or permenent electrets.  Some designs attempt to use the
electrostatic gradient present on the emission antennae from the
atmosphere.

There are actually a fair number of researchers who have developed
scalar electromagnetic hardware that spans a huge range of technological
sophistication.  What is more lacking is a common framework of
terminology for this technology, and a common forum for the exchange of
ideas and designs.

Due to the perception of military applications of this technology, many
researchers prefer to play their cards very close to the vest, but once
you show them your hand, they most often loosen up a bit and start
talking.

Sadly this means that you have to have already figured a lot of what
Bearden leaves unsaid out before you can learn from the work that's
already been done.

It's a sort of 'self suppressing' field of research, but there is no
real lack of experimental evidence for the effects, just a yawning
chasam of dialog on the subject.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 11:51:36 1997
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From: atech@ix.netcom.com
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I haven't read that book but I am familiar with the Philadelphia Experiment.
Bruce Cathie has made some correlation with the Earth's magnetic fields (the
icosahedral based configuration) in relation to the locations involved with
the Philadelphia Experiment. If Cathie is right, you sort of
electromagnetically 'squirt' to the other place.




At 03:15 AM 3/19/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I saw that one too. I believe his last name was Kramer. I'm of the opinion
>that somehow, he may have gotten involved in the alleged time travel
>experiments supposedly going on in the "abandoned" Montauk afb, on
>northern Long Island. The map the remote viewers drew looked suspiciously
>like a lake in the Montauk area. 
>Have you read "The Montauk Project: Experiments in time"?
>John
>
>
>On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 atech@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>> 
>> I just saw a Strange Universe story about one of the members of the rock
>> group Iron Butterfly. It seems that this person was also a brilliant
>> scientist who discovered the secret to speed of light travel. One day, he
>> suddenly called all of his friends and relatives and told them goodbye and
>> was never seen or heard from since.
>> 
>> 
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 15:54:43 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:44:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: difference in field properties
References: <01BC3193.574FEAA0@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> <332BD675.6AFF@microtronics.com.au> <332C66B8.4F0@tiac.net> <33370d24.17045553@mail.netspace.net.au>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:31:36 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote:
> [snip]
> >Greg, if this were true, why then can we not store any energy in these
> >fields when opposed?  If the inductance of a well made bifilar coil is
> >near zero, where are these fields and their stored energy?
> [snip]
> Perhaps this could be partially explained as follows.
> When the fields are building in a bifilar coil, they intercept the adjacent
> wires in such a way as to produce a "forward" rather than a "back" emf.
> This essentially reduces the impedance (inductance?) of the coil, ensuring
> that little or no energy is required to build the fields.

Whoa there!  Hold on, fields without energy?  Has there been a new set
of physical laws produced for this?

> Looking a little deeper, this has some interesting consequences. E.g. it
> implies that no energy is "stored" in fields at all, only that work must be
> done to create a field (unless two opposing fields are created
> simultaneously), and that a collapsing field can do work. (Two opposing
> collapsing fields "do & un-do" work simultaneously, hence nothing gets
> done).

I think we need to get past the concept that both fields exist at the
same time, and the implication which follows, being that no energy is
stored in the fields.

This is so far from the emperical data available, that a lot more hard
evidence would be needed to persue this line of reasoning.

If both fields exist, and dont interact, how on Earth can one feild know
if the other is also being created or not?

> All this leads to an interesting question:
> Is work required to separate the windings of a bifilar coil, while it is
> carrying a current (do you need to overcome a force, in order to separate
> them)? (Make it in two separate concentric layers, that can be pulled apart

The coils will try to force themselves apart by mutual repulsion.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 16:41:41 1997
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From: Tixif@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 19:21:41 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Iron Butterfly?
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In a message dated 97-03-20 14:44:45 EST, you write:

<< I haven't read that book but I am familiar with the Philadelphia
Experiment.
 Bruce Cathie has made some correlation with the Earth's magnetic fields (the
 icosahedral based configuration) in relation to the locations involved with
 the Philadelphia Experiment. If Cathie is right, you sort of
 electromagnetically 'squirt' to the other place.
 
 I've read Cathies book as well and there is alot unusual phenomenon recorded
and many measurments related to Speed Of Light and natural magnetic fields.
 I'll dig it out again.
Shawn

 
 
 At 03:15 AM 3/19/97 -0700, you wrote:
 >
 >I saw that one too. I believe his last name was Kramer. I'm of the opinion
 >that somehow, he may have gotten involved in the alleged time travel
 >experiments supposedly going on in the "abandoned" Montauk afb, on
 >northern Long Island. The map the remote viewers drew looked suspiciously
 >like a lake in the Montauk area. 
 >Have you read "The Montauk Project: Experiments in time"?
 >John
 >
 >
 >On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 atech@ix.netcom.com wrote:
 >
 >> 
 >> I just saw a Strange Universe story about one of the members of the rock
 >> group Iron Butterfly. It seems that this person was also a brilliant
 >> scientist who discovered the secret to speed of light travel. One day, he
 >> suddenly called all of his friends and relatives and told them goodbye
and
 >> was never seen or heard from since.
 >> 
 >> 
 >
 >
 >
 
 
 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 20:09:04 1997
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From: mindtech@om.com.au
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:37:42 +1000
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Relating to the thread about microwaving water, here is a patent requiring
no internal fuel consumption, only the expansive effect of a HV discharge
upon a confined dielectric. Any speculation about its efficiency? Several of
the claims have been deleted.

They weren't using them on lawnmowers in Novosibirsk :-)

Peter M. Nielsen, E.E.


3558908 : HIGH-VOLTAGE IMPULSE GENERATOR=20
------------------------------------------------------------------------
INVENTORS:Kulikov; Boris Ivanovich, Novosibirsk, Soviet Union
Lagunov; Viktor Mikhailovich, Novosibirsk, Soviet Union
Nesterikhin; Yury Efremovich, Novosibirsk, Soviet Union
Fedorov; Vladimir Mikhailovich, Novosibirsk, Soviet Union
ASSIGNEES:Institut Yadernoi Fiziki So An SSSR, Novosibirsk, Soviet
UnionISSUED:Jan.=A026, 1971FILED:Sep.=A03 , 1968SERIAL NUMBER:756964FEE=
 STATUS:
INTL. CLASS (Ed. ):H02m 3/06; H01F 3/04; U.S. CLASS:307-109; 317-242; FIELD
OF SEARCH:320-001 ; 307-106--109 ; 333-12,73C,96,13 ; 317-242,258,244 ;
174-028 ; 315-039 ; AGENTS:Waters, Roditi, Schwartz, & Nissen;=20


ABSTRACT:=A0=A0 A liquid dielectric capacitor comprises three metal=
 cylinders
coaxially nested within one another so that the bottoms of the outer and
inner cylinders are connected to each other while the middle cylinder has
its bottom facing in the opposite direction and is mounted on the outer
cylinder by means of an insulator. The firing electrode of a three-electrode
controlled spark gap is immersed in the liquid filling the space between the
bottom of the middle cylinder and the ends of the inner cylinder, the two
cylinders serving as the working electrodes of the spark gap.



U.S. REFERENCES:=20
Patent No.Patentee Issue Date 711130 *ShoemakerOct.=A01 , 19022411140
*LindenbladNov.=A01 , 19462339663 *TeareJan.=A01 , 19441610980=
 *SilbermanDec.=A01
, 19262947926 *MurchAug.=A01 , 1960
Show the 3 patents that reference this one=20

* some details unavailable=20

4 CLAIMS: First Claim Shown (Show all claims)=20

=951. A high-voltage impulse generator comprising a liquid dielectric
capacitor made up of three metal cylinders nested coaxially within one
another and constituting an outer, a middle and an inner cylinder with the
bottoms of said outer and inner cylinders connected to each other, while the
middle cylinder has its bottom facing in the opposite direction relative to
the bottoms of said outer and inner cylinders; a liquid dielectric filling
the space between said cylinders; an insulator fastening said middle
cylinder to the outer cylinder; means for producing a controlled spark gap
including a firing electrode, said inner cylinder and middle cylinder
constituting working electrodes, the firing electrode being immersed in the
liquid dielectric between the ends of the inner cylinder and the bottom of
the middle cylinder, and means at the bottom of the outer cylinder extending
into the liquid dielectric between the inner and outer cylinders to absorb
_hydraulic shock_ produced in the generator.=20






From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 02:30:08 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 05:17:31 -0500 (EST)
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This is an e-mail ping test....sorry

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 08:17:35 1997
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:56:28 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Lines of force rotate with magnet?
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I recently posted a short note in which I mentioned experiments have been
done which demonstrated lines of force rotate with a magnet when it is
rotated on its axis.  Several of you asked for the reference.  It is a 1960's
time frame paper by R.R. Birss of the Imperial College, London titled
"Electromagnetic Induction". Unfortunately, I have a copy of the paper but
not the detailed reference.  Next time I am at our library I will look it up
and post it.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 08:55:35 1997
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From: Michael Randall <mrandall@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: More Hamel Spinning Tops
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Geoff Greaves wrote,

>Even if it doesn't fly, just getting bits to float will provide me with an
>executive toy to die for!

Hi Geoff,

Let us know if it works! For the Hamel design to work it needs a continuous
circular field. My attempts with rectangular magnets in a non-circular field
didn't work. Waiting for the videos on Hamel and Sinclair. 

I found some other interesting all magnetic motors that looks buildable
also, as follows that can be found at the IBM Patent website:

1. 5,304,881 - Means for Producing Rotary Motion. Looks like a magnetic
version of Hilsch air vortex, with a iron or magnetic spiral rotor.
2. 4,751,486 - Magnetic Rotation Apparatus. Two rotors side by side geared
together with one rotor in advance of the other.
3. 4,456,856 - Permanent Magnetic A.C.-D.C. Motor. Two or more magnetic
spiral rotors. This design does need external EM pulse though.

1 & 2 above, both claim continuous rotory motion by magnets alone! Trying to
determine if these can produce _usable torque_, to then power an electric
generator. Check them out and let me know what you think. 

Best Regards,
Michael>>>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 11:28:11 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:12:04 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Re: More Hamel Spinning Tops
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on 21/03/1997  17:52:13, Michael Randall wrote :

<< I found some other interesting all magnetic motors that looks buildable
also, as follows that can be found at the IBM Patent website:

 1. 5,304,881 - Means for Producing Rotary Motion. Looks like a magnetic
 version of Hilsch air vortex, with a iron or magnetic spiral rotor.
 2. 4,751,486 - Magnetic Rotation Apparatus. Two rotors side by side geared
 together with one rotor in advance of the other.
 3. 4,456,856 - Permanent Magnetic A.C.-D.C. Motor. Two or more magnetic
 spiral rotors. This design does need external EM pulse though.
 
 1 & 2 above, both claim continuous rotory motion by magnets alone! Trying to
 determine if these can produce _usable torque_, to then power an electric
 generator. Check them out and let me know what you think. 
  >>


BINGO !!!  :-)

I think that the Patent 5,304,881 is a VERY GOOD EXAMPLE of REGAUGING a
magnetostatic scalar potential on a stator !!! , Very good patent,
Michael....It is easy to build and verify the theory with this example.
The industrial version of this device is the magnetic wankel motor, but the
main principle is the same...The patent 4,751,486 is more complicated because
is mixed the magnetic compression in the middle like the Bedini's Magnetic
gate.

The Patent 4,456,856 is a wrong number, the correct is 4,456,858.
This is another example of regauging, like the 5,304,881 patent......
Have you noticed the SNAIL'S SHAPE of the rotor ?......Interesting !....High
magnetic potential to low magnetic potential all these devices have the same
common point....
I have noticed the same point in my experiment on the Magnetic gate.

Thank you for theses informations Michael,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 16:08:14 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: 3-Magnetic Fields ?
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:07:28 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3335049c.31387723@mail.netspace.net.au>
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On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:19:49 +0100, Roger Natanaelsson wrote:
[snip]
>red,blue,red....The important thing is not the colors, they can change
>but, that it was repeted in a specific pattern=the same field,
[snip]
I think you will find that there is nothing magic about this. It is a
variation of a  Moire(sp?) pattern. Most television screens are composed of
triplets of color "dots", 1 red, 1 green, 1 blue, arranged in a triangle.
Behind the screen is a mask with holes in it. 1 hole for each dot. These
help to ensure that the correct electron beam hits the correct color dot.
When you put a magnet near the screen you move the electron beams, so that
they no longer match the right holes, and some of them miss the holes
altogether. Precisely which holes line up depends on the local magnetic
field strength, so you get a shift in color at different distances from the
magnet. This can result in a "magnification" of the basic triangular dot
pattern that is built into the screen.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 23:12:28 1997
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:19:49 +0100, Roger Natanaelsson wrote:
> [snip]
> >red,blue,red....The important thing is not the colors, they can change
> >but, that it was repeted in a specific pattern=the same field,
> [snip]
> I think you will find that there is nothing magic about this. It is a
> variation of a  Moire(sp?) pattern. Most television screens are composed of
> triplets of color "dots", 1 red, 1 green, 1 blue, arranged in a triangle.
> Behind the screen is a mask with holes in it. 1 hole for each dot. These
> help to ensure that the correct electron beam hits the correct color dot.
> When you put a magnet near the screen you move the electron beams, so that
> they no longer match the right holes, and some of them miss the holes
> altogether. Precisely which holes line up depends on the local magnetic
> field strength, so you get a shift in color at different distances from the
> magnet. This can result in a "magnification" of the basic triangular dot
> pattern that is built into the screen.
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on
> temperature.
> "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
The dots are bigger than the CRT's mask-dot...they form small cirkles.
And these cirkles vary with magnetic strenght.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 10:17:29 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:16:42 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3 news
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Information Update on "The Quest For Overunity " - QFO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Dear All,

I have put new informations about the Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3, you have
the full video (377K video for windows) which shows the high speed rush out
of the third gate. Video is better than a long talk.....
I give you the direct web link now : 

              http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/mg3pict.htm

Have fun,

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 19:19:01 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: difference in field properties
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:17:23 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33366500.18678237@mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <01BC3193.574FEAA0@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> <332BD675.6AFF@microtronics.com.au> <332C66B8.4F0@tiac.net> <33370d24.17045553@mail.netspace.net.au> <33317769.3743@tiac.net>
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On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:44:09 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote:
[snip]
>> Perhaps this could be partially explained as follows.
>> When the fields are building in a bifilar coil, they intercept the adjacent
>> wires in such a way as to produce a "forward" rather than a "back" emf.
>> This essentially reduces the impedance (inductance?) of the coil, ensuring
>> that little or no energy is required to build the fields.
>
>Whoa there!  Hold on, fields without energy?  Has there been a new set
>of physical laws produced for this?

See below (I don't think that is necessary).
>
>> Looking a little deeper, this has some interesting consequences. E.g. it
>> implies that no energy is "stored" in fields at all, only that work must be
>> done to create a field (unless two opposing fields are created
>> simultaneously), and that a collapsing field can do work. (Two opposing
>> collapsing fields "do & un-do" work simultaneously, hence nothing gets
>> done).
>
>I think we need to get past the concept that both fields exist at the
>same time, and the implication which follows, being that no energy is
>stored in the fields.

If you prefer, you could see the two fields as cancelling out, yielding
zero field, which is the way it is looked at conventionally, if I am not
mistaken. Actually Bob I would have thought that you would have been
attracted to this concept of two concurrently existing, but opposing
fields, as it seems to me that it nicely meets the requirements of scalar
electromagnetics. I.e. *net* field value zero, but with non-zero Poynting
vector.

>
>This is so far from the emperical data available, that a lot more hard
>evidence would be needed to persue this line of reasoning.

Perhaps you would care to present some of this empirical evidence?
>
>If both fields exist, and dont interact, how on Earth can one feild know
>if the other is also being created or not?

It doesn't. And the answer to your next question is: The net inductance is
zero (or nearly so), because individual wires "feel" or "detect" both
fields equally and simultaneously, so that their *net* effect on the wires
is zero.

>> All this leads to an interesting question:
>> Is work required to separate the windings of a bifilar coil, while it is
>> carrying a current (do you need to overcome a force, in order to separate
>> them)? (Make it in two separate concentric layers, that can be pulled apart
>
>The coils will try to force themselves apart by mutual repulsion.

Have you actually tried this? I get the impression that this would appear
to be true if you only take two windings into account. However when you
look at multiple windings you see that each winding is equally repelled by
his neighbours on both sides, hence has a tendency to go nowhere. 
I think a permanent magnet analogue would be two magnets one inside the
other. E.g. a hollow cylindrical outer magnet, and a solid cylindrical
inner magnet. Put the two together, such that the N pole of the inner
magnet matches the S pole of the outer magnet, and the S pole of the inner
magnet matches to the N pole of the outer magnet. In this configuration the
magnets clearly attract.

There is also the question of whether more current would flow as the two
coils are separated.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 23:53:18 1997
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> >> All this leads to an interesting question:
> >> Is work required to separate the windings of a bifilar coil, while it is
> >> carrying a current (do you need to overcome a force, in order to separate
> >> them)? (Make it in two separate concentric layers, that can be pulled apart
> >
> >The coils will try to force themselves apart by mutual repulsion.
> 
> Have you actually tried this? 

Yes I have, see below.

> I get the impression that this would appear
> to be true if you only take two windings into account. However when you
> look at multiple windings you see that each winding is equally repelled by
> his neighbours on both sides, hence has a tendency to go nowhere.

Hi Robyn,

Its only the outer layer and the coils on the end which would move, if
allowed.   Of course, once they move, then the next internal layer is
free to move........

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 23:53:21 1997
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Bob Shannon wrote:
> 
> I still hold my ground.  There is no energy over time going into these
> proposed undetectable fields.  They are indeed destroyed, and replaced
> with something different in their place.
> 
> The long sought after scalar wave.
> 
> There is no evidence that the flux simply distorts in the bifilar case.

So what's so special about a bifilar coil.  Opposing fluxes happen ALL
the time.

SEE BELOW! 

By the way, the Qfield programmers must of had a good time trying to
figure out when to destroy flux and when to let it distort.

> There is no energy over time to build the fields that are supposed to
> distort (proven emperical fact).  

Energy over time is just the observed characteristics of normal coils. 
Its the self induced back emf which causes energy over time to occur.

> There is no evidence for the existance
> of the distorted flux itself (by actual measurment).  It's just not
> there Greg.

Not much, just only ALL of magnetics.

> I think these two emperical facts clearly show that this flux just does
> not exist as has been suggested.

Take two parallel wires 1 mtr apart, carrying equal current, but flowing
in opposite directions.

Would you not agree that a largely undistorted magnetic field surrounds
each wire.

Would you further agree that in the space between the wires, the
magnetic field is compressed by the existance of the other wire's
field.  

Would you agree that the compression of the magnetic field in the space
betweeen the wires will cause the wires to be repelled from each other.

If we alter the spacing to 100mm, then 10mm, then 1mm, then 0.1mm, then
touching, at what point does the magnetic field start to be destroyed
and disappear?  I only see the field distortion increasing and the
repelling forces increasing.

> This is one reason I strongly objected to your description of DNMEC
> where flux was in opposition, and summs destructivly within the
> ferrite.  

I NEVER said that the flux summs destructively in a ferrite.  In fact I
have gone to quite some lengths to explain that its the domain which
align to the vector sum of the H fields "flowing" in the ferrite which
gives the effect.  In fact the DNMEC effect is about the action of
opposing fields in free space.  Connecting the air gap to the mmf
soucres by ferrite material destroys the effect.

> The simple device with the two coils (where the flux jumps out
> of the ferrite rather than suffer superposition) is real, it's a failed
> attempt at creating these very same scalar waves.

The flux leaves the ferrite toroid in my example due the lack of aligned
domains.  Its aligned domains that offer a better flux path and holds
flux in a ferrite.  NO aligned domains, NO flux redirection.

> I'd been there, and done that.  Something very different than DNMEC does
> indeed happen.  You might want to test your early prototypes for scalar
> wave production though!
> 
> The paradox in not in the destruction of the fields, as there is no
> energy going into the fields, hence no fields.  

Paradox yes.  But not really so different to the field energy in ferrite
domains.

> The real paradox is that
> this is not what happens between "macropoles" of permanent magnets or
> whole coils.  Physical size, or relative size is not the answer as Robin
> suggested.
> 
> The difference is within the substructure of the quantum potentials of
> the field around the single wire, and the whole coil.  The evidence for
> this exists in the fact that only when we have vector superposition do
> we find evidence for these so called scalar waves.  When whole
> macropoles are opposed, flux distorts and we find no evidence for scalar
> wave production.
> 
> Think it over Greg.  No energy under the curve, but we still have
> fields?

Yes.  OverUnity effects are NOT going to fit our current imperfect
understanding of natural law.

> What does this do to conventional theory?

Adds to our understanding of natural law.

> Assume for the moment that I'm right, and the fields really do not
> exist.  Conventional theory simply becomes a special case of a larger
> set of phenomena, that are already well described by Whittaker and
> others.
> 
> Scalar EM only extends conventional theroy, while saying that the fields
> are not due to the energy has a major impact on well proven conventional
> theory.  It's far simpler if the fields do not exist.  Also the weight
> of the actual evidence strongly favors the concept that the fields do
> indeed undergo vector superposition under these conditions.
> 
> There are patents based on demonstrated effects.

Bob, I am not attacking the existance of scalar waves.  I am not even
saying that bifilar coils can't generate them.  What I am saying, it
that conventional EM theory fully explains the existance of magnetic
fields surrounding each and every mm of wire in a bifilar coil.
 
> So, which is it?  Fields without energy, and a total rework of
> conventional theory, or no fields, and a 'flip side' to conventional
> theory?

No rework necessary.
 
> I'll bet with the side having the hard, cold evidence in this one.  No
> magnetic fields, and scalar production while the oppose potentials are
> changing.  Static opposed fields yeild the free A field only.
> 
> What do you say?

Hi Bob,

In the example of the two wires approaching each other, I gave above,
when do the opposing magnetic fields start to destroy each other.  At
what field density does this conversion process take place?  I am not
saying that I don't believe in your theory, I just am having a hard time
understanding how the magnetic fields are destroyed.  The magnetic dirt
under my fingernails just can't see it.

I have never seen or done anything to suggest that a magnetic field
doesn't surround each and every mm of wire in a bifilar coil.  There is
no external field because each and every turn opposes its neighbours. 
Its just like a unaligned ferrite.  Full of magnetic fields, but not
seen as all the random domains are not aligned and adding their
very..very small fields.  Same thing happens when we stop the current
flow.  Every mm of wire senses the field decline and generates an emf,
but they all sum to zero and we see no output.

I don't understand why you say this is outside of physics?  It is not. 
Now flux being destroyed, where is that taught?

Problem with the fields in a bifilar coil is not that they exist, its
now to get at them and get them to do work.  Sort of like trying to get
energy out of the domains in a ferrite or magnet.  We know they there, 
We know there is energy in them thar fields, but how to get at it?  

First one past GO collects $200 (well maybe a bit more).

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 00:33:52 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:33:01 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: ((((o))))
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FreeNrg thunderstorm, shadow meeting brainstrom ??

Where are you ?

Have you sunk into a black hole  ((((o)))) ??

Jean-Louis

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 01:10:03 1997
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--------------7667451E2A8A
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi All,

As a follow-up on the bifilar internal field discussion, attached is a 3
x 3 wire matrix.  Clearly shown is the internal field matrix.

Bifilar coils do have internal magnetic fields, but like the fields of
the unaligned domains in a ferrite, the total of their fields sums to
zero.

I have sent a much bigger 5 x 5 Gif to the DNMEC Gif list.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

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--------------7667451E2A8A--


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 02:08:21 1997
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 02:08:44 -0800
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From: Epitaxy <epitaxy@LocalAccess.com>
Subject: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
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Greg Watson's pictures of the insides of the bifilar coil, are just what I
have expected.


Please notice the blue spots (low H field) exactly in the middle between
each 4 wires.

If this space where the H field cancels out (blue) was occupied by a
Bismuth wire, I would expect an observable weight reduction.


I have once performed an experiment where a Bismuth sheet was suspended
vertically from a spring weight scale between 2 horizontal NIB Permanent
Magnets (opposing, just like the wires in your pictures).  When the bismuth
sheet was exactly in the middle between the 2 magnets I have repeatedly
observed a 15% weight reduction.  I went to great lengths to eliminate the
magnetic interaction error from the vertical weight measurements of the
bismuth sheet, still the effect remained.

By the same token, if you wound your bifilar coil with a bismuth wire
inter-woven with the copper wires (in the blue null zones)  I would expect
to observe weight loss when this coil was energized.

Bismuth is quite available, but I never seen it in a wire form. How about
liquid Bismuth chemical compound (a salt of some sort perhaps) that fills
the voids between the copper wires in a sealed bifilar coil.


Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
properties ?


DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???






At 07:40 PM 3/23/97 +0930, you wrote:
>
>Hi All,
>
>As a follow-up on the bifilar internal field discussion, attached is a 3
>x 3 wire matrix.  Clearly shown is the internal field matrix.
>
>Bifilar coils do have internal magnetic fields, but like the fields of
>the unaligned domains in a ferrite, the total of their fields sums to
>zero.
>
>I have sent a much bigger 5 x 5 Gif to the DNMEC Gif list.
>
>-- 
>Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
>Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
>                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile
>
>Attachment Converted: "T:\INCOMING\bifilar9a2.jpg"
>Attachment Converted: "T:\INCOMING\bifilar362.jpg"
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 03:13:59 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: magnetic gate / pendulum experiment
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 01:46:16 -0800
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I built a simple Magnetic Gate and it seemed to work as advertised, but =
wanted to test it somehow, to see if there really is a net gain in =
kinetic energy from one side to the other, or if it's only an illusion. =
Then remembered Frank Stenger's advice about using a pendulum (vortex-l =
on 3/13/97). So, having nothing better to do tonight, I set out to make =
the test.

Please note: the entire setup is rather crude, as I have extremely =
limited equipment/time/space for experiments at this time. The idea was =
to do a simple test to see the rough magnitude of the effect, if any.

Setup: A pendulum was made of 1/4" by 3/4" pine sticks in the shape of =
an inverted "Y", with a thin bamboo rod connecting the legs at the =
bottom. The bamboo rod was bowed slightly to approximate the arc of the =
pendulum's swing, so that as the pendulum swung the bamboo would =
maintain constant height above the floor. Radius of the arc was 76". The =
pendulum was suspended via a small brass rod resting on two pieces of =
angle iron.
In the center of the bamboo arc piece, a cylindrical magnet (3/16" x 1") =
was attached. The magnet was composed of a stack of small Neodymium =
magnets.
I have no way to measure the mass of any of the pendulum's components.

The magnetic gate was 9 rectangular ceramic Radio Shack magnets taped =
around a 2" diameter plastic form (a teflon plumbing tape dispenser, =
complete with teflon tape). The gate was positioned at the at-rest point =
of the pendulum's magnet, with the magnet/bamboo assembly running =
through the approximate center of the gate.


Results: The pendulum was pulled back a distance of 6-5/8" (due to =
geometrical attributes of the "laboratory"), and then released. The =
pendulum's peak distance after it went through the gate was then =
measured. The distance traveled out the gate was 6-7/8". After the first =
couple of tests I set up a marker at the peak point to facilitate =
comparisons between runs. Repeated tests gave fairly consistent results =
within my ability to eyeball it.

Conclusions: possible *small* increase in kinetic energy in traveling =
from one side of the gate to the other, about 3.8% in my tests. In this =
particular setup that was only 1/4" difference in travel, which isn't =
very dramatic and perhaps within margin of error. But it looks like it =
would be worth more accurate testing. Can someone else do this with a =
bit more sophistication?

Dan Quickert


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 03:20:01 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3 news
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:19:54 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33431fa2.46224337@mail.netspace.net.au>
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On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:16:42 -0500 (EST), JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>I have put new informations about the Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3, you have
>the full video (377K video for windows) which shows the high speed rush out
>of the third gate. Video is better than a long talk.....
>I give you the direct web link now : 
[snip]
How far into the gates do you have to push the ferrite before if moves by
itself?


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 03:20:21 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: 3-Magnetic Fields ?
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:20:07 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33421a8f.44924643@mail.netspace.net.au>
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On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:15:37 +0100, Roger Natanaelsson wrote:
[snip]
>> I think you will find that there is nothing magic about this. It is a
>> variation of a  Moire(sp?) pattern. Most television screens are composed of
[snip]
>The dots are bigger than the CRT's mask-dot...they form small cirkles.
>And these cirkles vary with magnetic strenght.

A characteristic of Moire (sp?) patterns is that they have a "magnifying"
effect. You can see an example of this by putting two pieces of "fly wire"
(or gauze) together (one behind the other). Any movement of one piece
results in a much larger shift in the pattern created by the two of them
together, than the shift in the piece that produced it. I.e. in some cases
a shift of 1 mm in one piece of fly wire can result in a 10 mm shift in the
interference pattern. I think the magnification factor is equal to the
space/wire ratio. I.e. if the holes are ten times the size of the thin
wires, then you get a 10 fold magnification.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 03:40:25 1997
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Message-ID: <3335167C.F98@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 01:39:43 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
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Epitaxy wrote:

>Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
>properties ?


>DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???


Yes. One's called "Pepto Bismol(TM)". It's quite diamagnetic, as well as
having other useful properties.<g>


- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 03:50:32 1997
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From: Epitaxy <epitaxy@LocalAccess.com>
Subject: Re: Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3 news
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Attached is a picture of mechanical analogy of the magnetic gate.

I have seen it claimed over and over that this gate takes less force to
overcome the ENTRY repulsion than the EXIT force.


WHAT ABOUT THE DISTANCE ?


Look at the attached picture to see what I am talking about:


Energy = force integrated over distance (ie. foot-pound  or  meter-kilogram)
For example if you have to push the the magnet into the gate for
10centimiters distance with 1 Newton of force  and  the  magnets exits from
the gate with  10newtons of force but only for 1contimeter -  THEN there is
NO energy gain despite that the EXIT force is greater !!!



At 01:16 PM 3/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Information Update on "The Quest For Overunity " - QFO
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>---
>Dear All,
>
>I have put new informations about the Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3, you have
>the full video (377K video for windows) which shows the high speed rush out
>of the third gate. Video is better than a long talk.....
>I give you the direct web link now : 
>
>              http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/mg3pict.htm
>
>Have fun,
>
>Truly,
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
>my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
>Home_Page</A>
><A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 03:51:18 1997
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:51:35 -0800
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From: Epitaxy <epitaxy@LocalAccess.com>
Subject: Re: Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3 news
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--=====================_859146695==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Attached is a picture of mechanical analogy of the magnetic gate.

I have seen it claimed over and over that this gate takes less force to
overcome the ENTRY repulsion than the EXIT force.


WHAT ABOUT THE DISTANCE ?


Look at the attached picture to see what I am talking about:


Energy = force integrated over distance (ie. foot-pound  or  meter-kilogram)
For example if you have to push the magnet into the gate for 10centimiters
distance with 1 Newton of force  and  the  magnets exits from the gate with
 10newtons of force but only for 1contimeter -  THEN there is NO energy
gain despite that the EXIT force is greater !!!



At 01:16 PM 3/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Information Update on "The Quest For Overunity " - QFO
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>---
>Dear All,
>
>I have put new informations about the Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3, you have
>the full video (377K video for windows) which shows the high speed rush out
>of the third gate. Video is better than a long talk.....
>I give you the direct web link now : 
>
>              http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/mg3pict.htm
>
>Have fun,
>
>Truly,
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
>my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
>Home_Page</A>
><A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>
>
>
--=====================_859146695==_
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Ow==
--=====================_859146695==_--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 03:56:09 1997
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On 23/03/1997  12:26:47, you wrote :

<< How far into the gates do you have to push the ferrite before if moves by
 itself?
 
 
  >>

I push the rod at the entrance of the first gate without initial impulsion.
The start of the magnetic rod is at 6mm inside the start of the first gate.
The rod magnet ( 9x40mm ) come from an alarm magnetic switch detector (radio
shack ref :49-512).

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 04:01:06 1997
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:01:33 -0800
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From: Epitaxy <epitaxy@LocalAccess.com>
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
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Great, I can just see the recipe for a new antigravity device.

*** Bifilar coil soaked with Pepto Bismol(TM) ***

hee hee...


BTW:  I wonder what such a heavy metal is doing to people's health.  Heavy
metals are usually toxic (ie. Lead, which is lighter than Bismuth, by the way)


At 01:39 AM 3/23/97 -1000, you wrote:
>Epitaxy wrote:
>
>>Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
>>properties ?
>
>
>>DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???
>
>
>Yes. One's called "Pepto Bismol(TM)". It's quite diamagnetic, as well as
>having other useful properties.<g>
>
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 04:44:20 1997
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:25:00 +0930
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Epitaxy wrote:
> 
> Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
> properties ?
> 
> DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???

HI Epitaxy,

My handbook of Chemistry & Physics shows the following :

Bismuth		-280
 Bromide	-147
 Chloride	 -26
 Chromate	 154
 Floride	 -61
 Hydroxide	 -65
 Iodide		-200
 Nitrate	 -91
 Oxide		-110
 Phosphate	 -77
 Sulfate	-199
 Sulfide	-123

Hope this helps.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 05:00:40 1997
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:59:40 +1100 (EST)
From: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Bismuth
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Hi all,

	There has been a lot of talk lately about Bismuth. I understand
that it never becomes superconductive even at liquid He temperatures, it
is _very_ diamagnetic, is used with manganese in high reminence magnets
and that its electrical resistance decreases with applied tension and
increases with pressure.

	Can anyone explain why its resistance decreases under tension? I
simply can't imagine why, unless it is the result of a quantum resonance
of the conduction electrons wave length and inter-ion spacing. If so,
couldn't we just stretch it apart until its internal latice spacing is a
ideal waveguide for the electron conduction current? (regardless of
thermal agitation)

	Perhaps this explains the microfibre superconductors at room
temp'? What about exploiting magnetostriction to tune the resistance of
the material, or cycle it through resistances? Any chances of releasing
ZPE this way?

	Just some thoughts. Does anyone know the current explination of
bismuth's strange resistance properties? (Guess what I am going to play
with next weekend :)
--
Alan Yates - VK2ZAY			mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

MD5 Message Digest: c48bb5e715c262269f2d81848a6ab5fa

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 05:02:09 1997
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Message-ID: <3332D87B.1A57@dove.net.au>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:50:36 -0800
From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" <gsawyer@dove.net.au>
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Organization: Outback Communications - Lighting, Theatre Concerts and Special Events.
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Someone wrote that the performer was now known as "Prince"

 - I guess the teleportation would have affected his mental state
and performance skills.

  At long last this explains heaps more about "Prince" than you could
ever read in Rolling Stone magazine !


         Glenville.
-- 
Rgds, Glenville T. Sawyer   (  Glen )  gsawyer@dove.net.au
http://dove.net.au/~gsawyer - visit and sign the guestbook
Lighting, Concerts, Special Events & Extra Special Effects


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 07:51:03 1997
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Subject: Re: difference in field properties
References: <01BC3193.574FEAA0@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> <332BD675.6AFF@microtronics.com.au> <332C66B8.4F0@tiac.net> <33370d24.17045553@mail.netspace.net.au> <33317769.3743@tiac.net> <33366500.18678237@mail.netspace.net.au>
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Can anybody Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:44:09 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote:
> [snip]
> >> Perhaps this could be partially explained as follows.
> >> When the fields are building in a bifilar coil, they intercept the adjacent
> >> wires in such a way as to produce a "forward" rather than a "back" emf.
> >> This essentially reduces the impedance (inductance?) of the coil, ensuring
> >> that little or no energy is required to build the fields.
> >
> >Whoa there!  Hold on, fields without energy?  Has there been a new set
> >of physical laws produced for this?
> 
> See below (I don't think that is necessary).
> >
> >> Looking a little deeper, this has some interesting consequences. E.g. it
> >> implies that no energy is "stored" in fields at all, only that work must be
> >> done to create a field (unless two opposing fields are created
> >> simultaneously), and that a collapsing field can do work. (Two opposing
> >> collapsing fields "do & un-do" work simultaneously, hence nothing gets
> >> done).
> >
> >I think we need to get past the concept that both fields exist at the
> >same time, and the implication which follows, being that no energy is
> >stored in the fields.
> 
> If you prefer, you could see the two fields as cancelling out, yielding
> zero field, which is the way it is looked at conventionally, if I am not
> mistaken. Actually Bob I would have thought that you would have been
> attracted to this concept of two concurrently existing, but opposing
> fields, as it seems to me that it nicely meets the requirements of scalar
> electromagnetics. I.e. *net* field value zero, but with non-zero Poynting
> vector.
> 
> >
> >This is so far from the emperical data available, that a lot more hard
> >evidence would be needed to persue this line of reasoning.
> 
> Perhaps you would care to present some of this empirical evidence?
> >
> >If both fields exist, and dont interact, how on Earth can one feild know
> >if the other is also being created or not?
> 
> It doesn't. And the answer to your next question is: The net inductance is
> zero (or nearly so), because individual wires "feel" or "detect" both
> fields equally and simultaneously, so that their *net* effect on the wires
> is zero.
> 
> >> All this leads to an interesting question:
> >> Is work required to separate the windings of a bifilar coil, while it is
> >> carrying a current (do you need to overcome a force, in order to separate
> >> them)? (Make it in two separate concentric layers, that can be pulled apart
> >
> >The coils will try to force themselves apart by mutual repulsion.
> 
> Have you actually tried this? I get the impression that this would appear
> to be true if you only take two windings into account. However when you
> look at multiple windings you see that each winding is equally repelled by
> his neighbours on both sides, hence has a tendency to go nowhere.
> I think a permanent magnet analogue would be two magnets one inside the
> other. E.g. a hollow cylindrical outer magnet, and a solid cylindrical
> inner magnet. Put the two together, such that the N pole of the inner
> magnet matches the S pole of the outer magnet, and the S pole of the inner
> magnet matches to the N pole of the outer magnet. In this configuration the
> magnets clearly attract.
> 
> There is also the question of whether more current would flow as the two
> coils are separated.
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on
> temperature.
> "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
tell me where I casn find the definitions of POYNTING FLOW and S_FLOW?
It looks important to overunity builders.

I saw some pictures oof it on tom Bearden's Virtual Times articles.
But there is no definition there.
Thanks
Joe Skues

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 10:04:56 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:04:03 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: Re : Re: Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3 news
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Hi Epitaxy and ALL,

Tank you for your comments, I have made new tests today on the Magnetic Gate
V3 with 30 differents measures. In these tests, I have made some different
kinds of measures :

1) 5 measures (tests A1 to A5) of the total length run through  3 Magnetic
gates (MG1,MG2,MG3)
2) 5 measures (tests B1-1 to B1-5) of the total length run through  2
Magnetic gates (MG1,MG2)
3) 5 measures (tests B2-1 to B2-5) of the total length run through  2
Magnetic gates (MG2,MG3)
4) 3 series of 5 measures (C1-1 to C1-5 (MG1), C2-1 to C2-5 (MG2), C3-1 to
C3-5 (MG3)) of the total length run through 1 Magnetic gates

MG1= Magnetic gate 1 with 10 magnets
MG2= Magnetic gate 2 with 7 magnets
MG3= Magnetic gate 3 with 6 magnets

You have all the details and the results of the tests in a worksheet on my
web, I give you the direct link :

     http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/mg3rep.htm

I hope that this new tests results will help someone those who are interested
in the Magnetic Gate concept.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>



On 23/03/1997  13:35:45, you wrote :

<< Suj :	Re: Magnetic Gate Accelerator V3 news
 Date :	23/03/1997  13:35:45
 From:	epitaxy@localaccess.com (Epitaxy)
 To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com, JNaudin509@aol.com
 
 
 Attached is a picture of mechanical analogy of the magnetic gate.
 
 I have seen it claimed over and over that this gate takes less force to
 overcome the ENTRY repulsion than the EXIT force.
 
 
 WHAT ABOUT THE DISTANCE ?
 
 
 Look at the attached picture to see what I am talking about:
 
 
 Energy = force integrated over distance (ie. foot-pound  or  meter-kilogram)
 For example if you have to push the the magnet into the gate for
 10centimiters distance with 1 Newton of force  and  the  magnets exits from
 the gate with  10newtons of force but only for 1contimeter -  THEN there is
 NO energy gain despite that the EXIT force is greater !!!
 
 
  >>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 10:32:30 1997
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From: Michael Randall <mrandall@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re : Re: More Hamel Spinning Tops
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Jean-louis wrote:

>BINGO !!!  :-)
>
>I think that the Patent 5,304,881 is a VERY GOOD EXAMPLE of REGAUGING a
>magnetostatic scalar potential on a stator !!! , Very good patent,
>Michael....It is easy to build and verify the theory with this example.

Yes, this design looks exactly like Bearden's Regauging diagram.
Built a 4" diameter small unit. No continuous rotation, probably due to the
disk weight imbalance, magnetic curve wasn't perfect, or spiral geometry
wasn't optimizied for my magnets (Radio Shack 1"X 3/4"X 1/8").

>The industrial version of this device is the magnetic wankel motor, but the
>main principle is the same...The patent 4,751,486 is more complicated because
>is mixed the magnetic compression in the middle like the Bedini's Magnetic
>gate.

Interesting!

>The Patent 4,456,856 is a wrong number, the correct is 4,456,858.

Thanks for the correction.

>This is another example of regauging, like the 5,304,881 patent......
>Have you noticed the SNAIL'S SHAPE of the rotor ?......Interesting !....High
>magnetic potential to low magnetic potential all these devices have the same
>common point....

It seems to be a small effect that needs to somehow be magnified to obtain
useful torque for power output. In Hamel's design, he used a large diameter
and over time the spinning increases to obtain his liftoff and unusual EM
effects.

>I have noticed the same point in my experiment on the Magnetic gate.
>
>Thank you for theses informations Michael,
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
>my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
>Home_Page</A>
><A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>
>

Best Regards,
Michael Randall

BTW - Where can I find an AVI video viewer program site for download, to
view your video's? 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 11:54:09 1997
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From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
In-Reply-To: epitaxy@localaccess.com's message
	of "Sun, March 23, 1997 04:01:33 -0800"
	regarding "Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth"
	id <3.0.32.19970323040132.00dbf738@mail.localaccess.com>
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[ On Sun, March 23, 1997 at 04:01:33 (-0800), epitaxy@localaccess.com wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
>
> BTW:  I wonder what such a heavy metal is doing to people's health.  Heavy
> metals are usually toxic (ie. Lead, which is lighter than Bismuth, by the way)

Lead does have a lower atomic weight, but according to my periodic table
Bisumuth has a lower density (9.8 g/cm3 for Bi, vs. 11.4 g/cm3 for Pb).

So, depending on what you mean by "lighter", you may be wrong as lead is
definitely more dense than bismuth.  ;-)

-- 
							Greg A. Woods

+1 416 443-1734			VE3TCP			robohack!woods
Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 12:30:56 1997
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On 23/03/1997  19:41:31, Michael Randall wrote :

<< 
BTW - Where can I find an AVI video viewer program site for download, to
 view your video's? 
 
 Best Regards,
Michael Randall

  >>
You can find Video For Windows drivers at :

http://www.shareware.com      search for this string :   VFW

or you can try this shortcut :

http://search.shareware.com/code/engine/Find?logop=and&cfrom=quick&orfile=True
&hits=25&search=VFW&category=MS-Windows%28all%29

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:01:35 1997
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Hi All,

Here is some info on the Feynman electromagnetic carousel paradox.  Has
anyone any more info.  Does this tie into the Newman gyrotron theory?

---------------------

>From Richard Feynman's Lectures on Physics we learn that there is 
intrinsic field energy and momentum density associated with a static
electro-magnetic field configuration. When there is a change in the
magnetic field, this field energy and momentum can be directly 
converted into kinetic energy and mechanical momentum. Feynman 
illustrates this with an electromagnetic carousel paradox. In this
paradox, a dielectric disk (which is embedded with small charged spheres
along its circumference) rotates without any apparent "counter" torque
in the system. Before this rotation occurs, the dielectric disk is 
immersed in a static magnetic field. The subsequent rotation occurs as
a consequence to reducing the previously static magnetic field to zero.
The angular momentum and rotational kinetic energy comes directly from
the initial static magnetic field. 

"The Feynman Lectures on Physics" by Richard Feynman, R.B. Leighton, and 
M. Sands, Volume II p 17-6

---------------------

Enjoy.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:37:21 1997
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Subject: Patent 5,142,861 Nonlinear electromagnetic propulsion system and method
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Hi All,

Thought all you defenders of existing physics would find this
interesting.

Patent talks about 100kw producing 100lbs of thrust.  This is not a
reaction drive.  Electricity is the ONLY fuel.  It functions because of
a nonlinear magnetic field.  Not too efficient yet, but still by
conventional physics, this can't be done.

Enjoy.
	
---------------------

5142861 :

Nonlinear electromagnetic propulsion system and method 


INVENTORS:

Schlicher; Rex L., Lorton, VA 22079-1204
Rinaldi; Steven M., E-401 APO New York, NY 09777-5000
Hall; David J., Pittsburgh, PA 15239
Ranon; Peter M., San Pedro, CA 90734
Davis; Charles E., Albuquerque, NM 87112

 
ABSTRACT:

An electromagnetic propulsion system based on an extremely low frequency
(elf) radiating antenna structure driven by a matched high current
pulsed power supply is described. The  elf antenna structure resembles a
modified three dimensional multiple-turn loop antenna whose geometry is
optimized for the production of reaction thrust rather than the
radiation of electromagnetic energy into space. The antenna structure is
current driven rather than voltage drive. Rigid three dimensional
geometric asymmetry, made up of flat electrical conductors that form a
partially closed volume in the loop antenna structure, trap magnetic
flux thereby causing a magnetic field density gradient along a single
axis. This magnetic field density gradient then causes an imbalance in
the magneto- mechanical forces that normally result from the
interactions of the loop antenna's internal magnetic field with the
current in the conductors of the loop antenna structure, as described by
the Lorentz Force Law. The pulsed power supply is designed to provide
the proper waveform to the antenna structure at an impedance matching
the load impedance of the antenna. The rise time and shape of the input
current waveform is crucial to maximizing the production of reaction
thrust. Input voltage is at a nominal value sufficient to allow the
desired high input current. 


CLAIMS:

1. A nonlinear electromagnetic propulsion system, comprising antenna
means driven by current pulse generating means coupled to a prime power
source, with transmission line means coupling the current pulse
generating means to the antenna means; wherein the current pulse
generating means includes means for providing a sawtooth wave having a
relatively steep leading edge compared to the trailing edge; wherein the
antenna means comprises a three dimensional laminated geometry having an
extremely low frequency (elf) radiating antenna structure in the form of
a three dimensional asymmetric multiple-turn loop antenna whose geometry
is optimized for the production of reaction thrust rather than the
radiation of electromagnetic energy into space, with rigid three
dimensional geometric asymmetry, made up of flat electrical conductors
that form a partially closed volume in the loop antenna structure, which
trap magnetic flux thereby causing a magnetic field density gradient
along a single axis, wherein the magnetic field density gradient causes
an imbalance in the magneto-mechanical forces that normally result from
the interactions of the loop antenna's internal magnetic field with the
current in the conductors of the loop antenna structure, as described by
the Lorentz Force Law; wherein the antenna means includes a plurality of
return bundles and a center return conductor. 

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:47:16 1997
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:46:23 -0500 (EST)
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Playing with Bismuth seems a good idea; anyone know a good place to obtain
samples (preferably in solid sheet form)?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:51:16 1997
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From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Feynman EM Carousel Paradox
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>Hi All,
>
>Here is some info on the Feynman electromagnetic carousel paradox.  Has
>anyone any more info.  Does this tie into the Newman gyrotron theory?
>
>---------------------
>
>>From Richard Feynman's Lectures on Physics we learn that there is
>intrinsic field energy and momentum density associated with a static
>electro-magnetic field configuration. When there is a change in the
>magnetic field, this field energy and momentum can be directly
>converted into kinetic energy and mechanical momentum. Feynman
>illustrates this with an electromagnetic carousel paradox. In this
>paradox, a dielectric disk (which is embedded with small charged spheres
>along its circumference) rotates without any apparent "counter" torque
>in the system. Before this rotation occurs, the dielectric disk is
>immersed in a static magnetic field. The subsequent rotation occurs as
>a consequence to reducing the previously static magnetic field to zero.
>The angular momentum and rotational kinetic energy comes directly from
>the initial static magnetic field.
>
>"The Feynman Lectures on Physics" by Richard Feynman, R.B. Leighton, and
>M. Sands, Volume II p 17-6
>
>---------------------
>
>Enjoy.
>
>--
>Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
>Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
>                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

And another post re Feynman --

While reading my Commemorative Issue of The Feynman Lectures on Physics by
Feynman, Leighton, and Sands, published by the Addison Wesley Publishing
Company, I encountered a passage on relativistic momentum considerations by
Richard Feynman that sounded so similar to what Joseph Newman said in his
Energy Machine book, that I wanted to share it.  Here's the operant
quotation from page 10-9 of Volume I:

"One of the propositions of Newton was that interactions at a distance are
instantaneous.  It turns out that such is not the case; in situations
involving electrical forces, for instance, if an electrical charge at one
location is suddenly moved, the effects on another charge, at another
place, do not appear instantaneously -- there is a little delay . . . . It
takes time for the influence to cross the intervening distance, which is
does at 186,000 miles a second.  In that tiny time the momentum of the
particles is not conserved.  Of course, after the second charge has felt
the effect of the first one and all is quieted down, the momentum equation
will check out all right, but during that small interval momentum is not
conserved.  We represent this by saying that during this interval there is
another kind of momentum besides that of the particle, mv, and that is
momentum in the electromagnetic field.  If we add the field momentum to the
momentum of the particle, then momentum is conserved at any moment all the
time.  The fact that the electromagnetic field can possess momentum and
energy MAKES THAT FIELD VERY REAL, and so, for better understanding, the
original idea that there are just the forces between particles has to be
modified to the idea that the particles make a field, and a field acts on
another particle, and THE FIELD ITSELF HAS SUCH FAMILIAR PROPERTIES AS
ENERGY CONTENT AND MOMENTUM, JUST AS PARTICLES CAN HAVE." [Emphasis added.]

>From the First Edition of The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman, page 20, I
>quote:

"The FACTS above clearly indicate that the magnetic field consists of
GYROSCOPIC TYPE PARTICLES which are the mechanical essence of E=mc(squared)
and represent an orderly flow of kinetic energy." [Emplhasis added.]

Note the similarity between the Feynman and Newman descriptions of the
electromagnetic field:  both say the field has energy content and momentum.
Feynman, however, pulls his punches by inserting the scientific
qualification, "just as particles can have" while Newman says directly the
field consists of particles in motion.  PARTICLES in motion, by definition,
have momentum, and the electromagnetic field, according to Nobel Laureate
Feynman, in a stretching of the very definition of momentum, has momentum.
Since no one has ever seen either an electric field nor gyroscopic
particles (nor will, presumably, they EVER, since seeing requires the
objects be larger than a wavelength of light, which they definitely are
not), both are legitimate ways of talking about a reality that we cannot
observe directly.  Feynman's way of talking used the concept of field in
the accepted scientific say, up until now.  Here's a later quote by Feynman
from the same page 10-9:

"To take another example --- an electromagnetic field has waves, which we
call light; it turns out that light also carries momentum with it, so when
light impinges on a object it carries in a certain amount of momentum per
second; this is equivalent to a force, because if the illuminated object is
picking up a certain amount of momentum per second, its momentum is
changing and the situation is exactly the same as if there were a force on
it.  Light can exert pressure by bombarding an object; this pressure is
very small, but with sufficiently delicate apparatus it is measurable."


If the momentum of the electromagnetic fields or particles of the sun's
rays can be used, as some scientists have proposed, to build a solar sail
to power future space ships throughout the solar system, perhaps the
momentum of the electromagnetic fields surrounding large coils of wire can
be used to provide an efficient source of electrical power throughout the
same solar system without the use of fossil or radioactive fuels.  This is
the promise of Joseph Newman's revolutionary energy machine and its
associated theory.

Robert Joseph Matherne
Nuclear Physicist
217 Timberlane Road
Gretna, Louisiana 70056



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 16:08:15 1997
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Hi Folks!

A while back I wrote:

   Diamagnetic materials have a negative susceptibility and thus a negative
permeability.  Looking at my Handbook of Chemistry and Physics the three
most negative materials I see are:
Bismuth  -280.1
Hydrated Aluminum Trisulphate -323.0
Tetra-i-pentylammonium Bromide -378

   All organic compounds are diamagnetic to some degree, which leads to some
interesting speculations about the role of diamagnetism in the life force
which I won't get into here. It's also interesting to note that it was an
aluminum mineral that fell the slowest in Brush's gravity drop experiments
in the early 1900's. 
[This last observation turned out to be incorrect]

And in another post:

   A close-coupled bifilar nonferrous wire winding around a cylinder of
Bismuth or almost any organic material with a diamagnetic (negative)
permeability, with interleaved foil layers to reduce capacitance will have
(L < u, C >e, LC < ue) and will be a true detector or modulator of FTL
energies. I predict that such a coil placed in a standard-EM insulated
environment (faraday cage, mumetal housing) will have a small but detectible
voltage output. The lower the C, the higher the output, based on the
supposition that the power in FTL bands increases proportionally with
frequency. It may or may not be necessary to interpose a coil whose 1/(LC)-2
is a whole number fraction of the 1/(LC)-2 of the FTL coil (in English, it's
on a subharmonic) between the FTL coil and the test equipment to provide
energetic matching.

   Charles Brush (1) tested the gravitational attraction between cylinders
of different metals and arrived at the following results (relative to Zinc
as a standard):
Aluminum   130
Zinc       100
Tin        100
Lead        93
Silver      80
Bismuth     72
   These numbers should all be 100 according to standard theory. He did
experiments with various types of pendulums and discovered consistent
differences between the periods depending on the materials they were made of.
   He had predicted these results previously based on a theory that related
the gravitational force to an interchange of energy with the aether.
   If the aether is assumed to be a sea of FTL particles/waves his theory is
identical to my hypothesis about materials with an internal LC product less
than ue: materials or structures with permeabilities and/or permittivities
less than free space operate as lenses for FTL energies. One would expect to
see time, space, gravitational and electrical changes in such materials.
This appears to be the case.
   (A metal can be considered to be a dielectric with an extremely low C
determined by the charge relaxation time, therefore a metal always has a C < e.)
   I am proposing that the antigravity effects in Bismuth are not directly
mediated through a magnetic field, but are the result of the internal
resonant frequency or energy transmission velocity of the material. However,
applied magnetic and electric fields, or current might affect this behavior
in unknown ways.
   As Alan Yates pointed out:
   Can anyone explain why its resistance decreases under tension? I
simply can't imagine why, unless it is the result of a quantum resonance
of the conduction electrons wave length and inter-ion spacing. If so,
couldn't we just stretch it apart until its internal lattice spacing is an
ideal waveguide for the electron conduction current? (regardless of
thermal agitation).
   This is basically the mechanism proposed in the Bourgoin patent for
room-temperature superconductors (4,325,795) which uses Bismuth because,
according to the theory of the inventor, electrons with opposite spins pair
up and travel through the lattice very rapidly, much faster than the
electron drift velocity. I'll find the references about Bismuth under
tension and see what they say.
   I have recently suggested a practical free-energy device based on the
Corbino effect based on entirely different considerations about the
properties of Bismuth, that is, its high Hall and Corbino effect
coefficients. See the post entitled "Tolman, Backett, and Corbino effects".
To reiterate in brief, the third Corbino effect takes place in a Bismuth
disc placed normal to a magnetic field varying between 0 and 800 G (.08 T).
Charge is transported from the center of the disc to the periphery while the
field is changing. My calculations show that with a properly shaped magnetic
field and a large enough volume of Bi (a disc a meter wide and 10
centimeters thick will do well) a 50 A. current will flow during each
magnetic field change. The power output is not high, but certainly higher
than needed to maintain an oscillating magnetic field in the electromagnet
if it is part of a low-loss parallel resonant circuit. Also the power output
is exactly in phase with the current flow through the electromagnet so it
would be possible to feed back part of the output power to the coil to
provide for losses, allowing for a free-standing unit. Anyone interested in
the details can email me.  
    On the Keelynet website is a description of material supposed to have
benn found in the Roswell crash (http://www.keelynet.com/rodbism.htm) that
had antigravitational properties. It was composed of thin layers of bismuth
and magnesium. In my notes of several years ago on this subject I had drawn
an FTL waveguide with exactly these characteristics: thin layers of a
material with a permeability less than u sandwiched between thin layers of a
material with a permittivity less than e (that is, a metal).
At the time I hypothesized that this was what was at the core of the Moray
device, since his "Swedish clay" would have likely been a hydrated silicate
or other material with a negative susceptibility. I've seen nothing to
change my mind.
   Finally, I also had read (somewhere, I can't remember where at the
moment) that the diamgnetic susceptibilities of organic compounds are
approximately equal to the sum of the susceptibilities of their component
atoms. In my notebook at the time I speculated that this implied that
compounds could be created with very high negative susceptibilities.
Cavorite? Any chemists out there, take note.
   In the Tampere experiment it has been assumed that the effect is a direct
result of the blocking of a magnetic field. Perhaps the artificial negative
susceptibility of the superconducting disc creates an FTL (aether) waveguide
above it. (I haven't studied these experiments in detail.)
   Hopefully these theories will provide grounds for some fruitful
experimentation.
                               Fred
   
   1) "Discussion Of A Kinetic Theory Of Gravitation II, And Some New
Experiments In Gravitation" by Charles F. Brush, Proceedings Of The American
Philosophical Society, 
Vol. LX, D, Dec. 20, 1921
 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 17:04:43 1997
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mindtech@om.com.au wrote:
>
> Of course opposing fluxes happen all the time, the point is to control them.
> What do you think?
> 
> Peter

Hi Peter,

Of course magnetic fields exist in bifilar coils, just as magnetic
fields exist in all matter.  We can get at the natural fields in
ferromagnetic materials by causing the domains to align.  The only
drawback is the back emf induced by the external field created as the
domains align.

I am attempting to build a modified bifilar coil which will allow the
internal fields to be utilized.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 18:46:38 1997
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Anyone know the Patent# for Paul Pantones system [fuel vaporizing]
                         or Rory Johnsons Ro-Mag motor patent
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 20:56:40 1997
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From: Tony Rusi <windski@eskimo.com>
To: Conny Ohstrom <conny.ohstrom@abc.se>
cc: Multiple recipients of list <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: TESLA FE CAR & rosen motor car? 
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On Mon, 6 May 1996, Conny Ohstrom wrote:

> I got an idea while sitting in the bath doing alpha meditiation:
> 
> What whould happen if I make a machine that have two antennas that
> each is connected to a metal plate. In front of these two plates,
> there is another plate. Between these plates there are hanging a ball
> in a small wire. The balls will transfer any charge built up on the
> first plates from the antennas, to the second plates. Thus always
> keeping the second plates charged, as long as there is enough energy
> in the air.
> 
> Hmm, I thought, that could be a good mechanical dowsing-rod. And cheap!
> 
> Then, clear out of the sky, an idea came to me:
> 
> What if this was the way Tesla made his car battery work?
> 
> references:
> http://www.mip.berkeley.edu/images/physics/D+10+28.gif
> (electrostatic doorbell bangs between charged plates)
> http://www.mip.berkeley.edu/images/physics/D+10+26.gif
> (Various Leyden jars to show)
> 
> http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/teslafe1.asc
> http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/teslafe2.asc
> http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/diagrams/TESLAFE2.GIF
> http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/diagrams/TESLAFE1.GIF
> http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/70l7gt.asc
> (texts&pictures how some think that Tesla made his car battery)
> 
> My comments on the calculations made in the file TESLAFE2.ASC:
> The rods where _sticking_out_ 3 inches out of the box that had the
> following measurement: 24, 12 and 6 inches.
> If the rods were used as antennas, then the _whole_length_ of the
> rods must be known. The rods could be of any length, from 3 to 24 inches
> and still fit into the box.
> exit --- Dont steal, the government hates competition!
> Conny Ohstrom; Vita liljans vag 57, 3tr; S-127 34 SKARHOLMEN;
> SWEDEN; phone: +46-8-978055; Email: conny.ohstrom@abc.se
> 
> 
has anyone even tried to replicate this work on tesla's ether powered car?
why is the work at rosen motor car being written up in tesla newsletters?
What is the connection?
Is there any vortexian close enough to the Rosen operation in Pasadena to
go over there and report back? last has anyone done any work with teslian
technolgy that taps or produces etherial beams? 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 21:45:38 1997
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From: Albert Yang <lithium@ipgeek.com>
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Tony Rusi wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 6 May 1996, Conny Ohstrom wrote:
> 
> > I got an idea while sitting in the bath doing alpha meditiation:
> >
> > What whould happen if I make a machine that have two antennas that
> > each is connected to a metal plate. In front of these two plates,
> > there is another plate. Between these plates there are hanging a ball
> > in a small wire. The balls will transfer any charge built up on the
> > first plates from the antennas, to the second plates. Thus always
> > keeping the second plates charged, as long as there is enough energy
> > in the air.

My friend did a thesis on this, and he gave a brief presentation on it. 
The "ball" he used was a pure carbon ball, and it moved quite well, but
there is a lot of "lost energy" in the middle and so the system isn't
really as well as you or he described it.  I don't remember much about
the details, but he set it up like a pulsar system, so the thing would
bounce back and forth from the charges.

Albert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 22:15:26 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:30:10 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <333b03c1.22928989@mail.netspace.net.au>
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On Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:59:40 +1100 (EST), Alan Yates wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>	There has been a lot of talk lately about Bismuth. I understand
>that it never becomes superconductive even at liquid He temperatures, it
>is _very_ diamagnetic, is used with manganese in high reminence magnets
>and that its electrical resistance decreases with applied tension and
>increases with pressure.
>
>	Can anyone explain why its resistance decreases under tension? I
>simply can't imagine why, unless it is the result of a quantum resonance
>of the conduction electrons wave length and inter-ion spacing. If so,
>couldn't we just stretch it apart until its internal latice spacing is a
>ideal waveguide for the electron conduction current? (regardless of
>thermal agitation)
>
>	Perhaps this explains the microfibre superconductors at room
>temp'? What about exploiting magnetostriction to tune the resistance of
>the material, or cycle it through resistances? Any chances of releasing
>ZPE this way?
[snip]
I may well be wrong, but I have a suspicion that the strange properties of
Bi are related to the fact that it has a rhombohedral crystal structure.
Perhaps stretching the metal leads to better alignment of individual
crystals? If you visit my web page, you will see how this structure is
linked to the existence of room temperature Bose-Einstein condensates, and
I suspect therewith, room temperature superconductivity (but only in
specific crystal planes).


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 22:21:08 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:11:12 +1000
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: Bismuth
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I notice in the newsgroup lately a substance called bismuth
can something elighten me with the properties of this element and where is
the most
likely source in Australia if possible I can get some to experiment with.

Geoff
http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 22:55:05 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: rotating magnets and fields
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Hi magnet-spinners,

   I went through my files and found the following articles about rotating
fields and magnets. I haven't read the contents recently so I can't say much
about what's inside so I'll just reprint the summaries of these articles.

1) "Unipolar Machines. Association Of The Magnetic Field With The
Field-Producing Magnet" by A. K. Das Gupta, Am. Jour. Physics, Mar. 1963(?)
   "In this paper, various experiments are described which prove that in
unipolar machines, if the field-producing magnet is rotated, the field does
not rotate but remains stationary. If the field-producing magnet is solidly
fixed with the rotor and both are rotated, a voltage is generated in the
rotor which is practically equal to the voltage generated in the same rotor
when rotated at the same speed in the field of the stationary magnet.
Similarly, if current is passed through the rotor when the rotor is solidly
fixed with the magnet, a torque is generated which is practically equal to
the torque generated in the same rotor when the magnet is kept stationary."

2) "Spinning Magnetic Fields" by Jovan Djuric, Journal Of Applied Physics,
V. 46, N. 2, Feb. 1975
   "A possible electric charge model based on the spinning time invariant
point magnetic dipole within the framework of classical physics is outlined,
as suggested by the admissible circular trajectory of a test charge around
the magnetic dipole in its equatorial plane. The model depends on the moving
force line hypothesis which has been claimed to have been disproved. The
controversy about that issue at the turn of this century is reanalyzed. The
mathematical model of the generalized homopolar generator is presented,
which is fully in agreement with all experimental facts concerning the
homopolar generator, except for a single result by Pegram which appears to
be an error and which violates the Faraday law. It was shown that the moving
force line hypothesis was apparently nnot disproved by Kennard as claimed.
Thus the intriguing model of electrical charge is possible. Further
experimental research with all kinds of spinning magnets appears to be
justified and desirable in view of the potentially high significance of the
research line initiated by Jehle with the quantum mechanical model of the
charge in terms of spinning flux loop forms."

3) "Spinning Magnets and Jehle's Model Of The Electron" by D.F. Bartlett, J.
Monroy, and J. Reeves, Physical Review D, V. 16, N.12, 15 Dec 1977
   "We have improved a classical test of unipolar induction. In this
experiment a cylindrical sample of magnetized steel is spun upon its axis
inside a hollow, insulated steel sphere. According to the moving-line theory
of unipolar induction the rotating magnetic field generates an electric
field E = -(w x r) x B in the region exterior to the magnet. The field will
have the effect of elevating the potential of the enclosing sphere. We have
searched in vain for such an effect and conclude that if the magnetic field
lines are moved at all by the rotation of a magnet about its axis they are
dragged with a coefficient less than 1.4 x 10-4. This limit is approximately
100 times more stringent than the 1912 measurement of Kennard. We discuss
the application of this work to Jehle's recent model of leptonic charge."

   These are interesting articles, although the thoery of Jehle to which
they refer is toally incomprehenisible, at least to me. Basically the idea
is that an electron is an electric charge spining around a magnetic dipole--
that's as far as I can get. If anybody wants copies, let me know.
                              Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 23:15:32 1997
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References: <01BC3193.574FEAA0@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> <332BD675.6AFF@microtronics.com.au> <332C66B8.4F0@tiac.net> <33370d24.17045553@mail.netspace.net.au> <33317769.3743@tiac.net> <33366500.18678237@mail.netspace.net.au>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> >I think we need to get past the concept that both fields exist at the
> >same time, and the implication which follows, being that no energy is
> >stored in the fields.
> 
> If you prefer, you could see the two fields as cancelling out, yielding
> zero field, which is the way it is looked at conventionally, if I am not
> mistaken. Actually Bob I would have thought that you would have been
> attracted to this concept of two concurrently existing, but opposing
> fields, as it seems to me that it nicely meets the requirements of scalar
> electromagnetics. I.e. *net* field value zero, but with non-zero Poynting
> vector.
> 

Actually, my understanding of scalar electromagnetics is such that I see
the magntic fields indeed sum to zero, which then permits the potentials
to be expressed in another form.  The static current case yeilds the
free A field, while the dynamic current case yeilds the elusive scalar
wave.

The difference between the scalar wave and the magnetic field being the
internal geometeries of the potential, just as may be the case between
conditions where magnetic flux perfers to distort rather than suffer
destructive interference.

> >This is so far from the emperical data available, that a lot more hard
> >evidence would be needed to persue this line of reasoning.
> 
> Perhaps you would care to present some of this empirical evidence?

Well, the definition of inductance being the energy used to build the
field, etc.

I cannot see how known conventional phenomena would be explained if
there were not energy stored in the magnetic field of a coil.  It's the
idea that no energy is stored in the fields, yet the fields still exist
(in the bifilar case) that I cannot seem to accept here.

> >If both fields exist, and dont interact, how on Earth can one feild know
> >if the other is also being created or not?
> 
> It doesn't. And the answer to your next question is: The net inductance is
> zero (or nearly so), because individual wires "feel" or "detect" both
> fields equally and simultaneously, so that their *net* effect on the wires
> is zero.

These fields having no stored energy, just how large are they?  I guess
lots of infinities start poping up here.
 
> >> All this leads to an interesting question:
> >> Is work required to separate the windings of a bifilar coil, while it is
> >> carrying a current (do you need to overcome a force, in order to separate
> >> them)? (Make it in two separate concentric layers, that can be pulled apart
> >
> >The coils will try to force themselves apart by mutual repulsion.
> 
> Have you actually tried this? I get the impression that this would appear
> to be true if you only take two windings into account. However when you
> look at multiple windings you see that each winding is equally repelled by
> his neighbours on both sides, hence has a tendency to go nowhere.
> I think a permanent magnet analogue would be two magnets one inside the
> other. E.g. a hollow cylindrical outer magnet, and a solid cylindrical
> inner magnet. Put the two together, such that the N pole of the inner
> magnet matches the S pole of the outer magnet, and the S pole of the inner
> magnet matches to the N pole of the outer magnet. In this configuration the
> magnets clearly attract.

Oh yes!  I've had the bottom pair push the outer conductor away, so the
next to outer conductor now had an imballance of force, so it moved, and
so on, and so one, but I've dumped some large number of joules through
some bifilar coils at times. (<10 kj / ms)

> There is also the question of whether more current would flow as the two
> coils are separated.

As the bifilar condition is violated by the deformation of the coil,
inductance takes control and the current drops for a moment.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 23:30:50 1997
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Epitaxy wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson's pictures of the insides of the bifilar coil, are just what I
> have expected.
> 
> Please notice the blue spots (low H field) exactly in the middle between
> each 4 wires.

This does not match actual testing,  Qfield is not substitute for actual
testing in any situation.

A good bifilar coil has nearly zero energy under the curve, so no
significant flux is produced.

> 
> If this space where the H field cancels out (blue) was occupied by a
> Bismuth wire, I would expect an observable weight reduction.
> 
> I have once performed an experiment where a Bismuth sheet was suspended
> vertically from a spring weight scale between 2 horizontal NIB Permanent
> Magnets (opposing, just like the wires in your pictures).  When the bismuth
> sheet was exactly in the middle between the 2 magnets I have repeatedly
> observed a 15% weight reduction.  I went to great lengths to eliminate the
> magnetic interaction error from the vertical weight measurements of the
> bismuth sheet, still the effect remained.

That's not real weight reduction, but repulsion from max flux density,
the standard diamagnetic effect.

> 
> By the same token, if you wound your bifilar coil with a bismuth wire
> inter-woven with the copper wires (in the blue null zones)  I would expect
> to observe weight loss when this coil was energized.
> 
> Bismuth is quite available, but I never seen it in a wire form. How about
> liquid Bismuth chemical compound (a salt of some sort perhaps) that fills
> the voids between the copper wires in a sealed bifilar coil.
> 
> Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
> properties ?
> 
> DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???

Errr, I actually have Bismuth wire!  Weird eh?


> 
> At 07:40 PM 3/23/97 +0930, you wrote:
> >
> >Hi All,
> >
> >As a follow-up on the bifilar internal field discussion, attached is a 3
> >x 3 wire matrix.  Clearly shown is the internal field matrix.
> >
> >Bifilar coils do have internal magnetic fields, but like the fields of
> >the unaligned domains in a ferrite, the total of their fields sums to
> >zero.
> >
> >I have sent a much bigger 5 x 5 Gif to the DNMEC Gif list.
> >
> >--
> >Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
> >Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
> >                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile
> >
> >Attachment Converted: "T:\INCOMING\bifilar9a2.jpg"
> >Attachment Converted: "T:\INCOMING\bifilar362.jpg"
> >

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:06:22 1997
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(I sent this to Greg Watson yesterday, but forgot to copy the lists)

A bifilar coil could be represented as two separate coils wound the same =
direction over the same core, with the current in one coil going in =
opposite direction to the current in the other, right?

So when the coils are both energized, we detect no net field, but the =
fields are there. And if we remove current from both at once, we get no =
net energy out. But what happens when we de-energize just one of the =
coils? Suddenly there is a net field (from the coil still energized). =
Anything useful in that?

Also, seems like the coil's start-up characteristics would be different =
between two methods of applying current:
(1) use one current to go thru both coils; current has to traverse all =
of coil A before starting back the other way through coil B. Coil A's =
field is complete before coil B's field starts up and begins to "cancel" =
it.
(2) simultaneously apply oppositely-directed currents to both coils. =
Each coil is half-charged before they "meet" in the middle.
But then there are the induced currents from one coil to the other to =
take into account, also.

I wish I had a scope and a *really* long bifilar coil.

Has anybody already dealt with these issues?

In innocence and ignorance as usual,

Dan Quickert


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:23:23 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Unidentified subject!
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:09:10 -0800
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So THAT's what the listserver does when you forget to type a subject line!
I'm learning more things here...

Should have been "Bifilar Coils". Sorryboutthat.

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:39:01 1997
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unsubscribe

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:50:31 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:56:02 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> (I sent this to Greg Watson yesterday, but forgot to copy the lists)
> 
> A bifilar coil could be represented as two separate coils wound the same direction over the same core, with the current in one coil going in opposite direction to the current in the other, right?

Right.

> So when the coils are both energized, we detect no net field, but the fields are there. And if we remove current from both at once, we get no net energy out. But what happens when we de-energize just one of the coils? Suddenly there is a net field (from
 the coil still energized). Anything useful in that?

Could be.  Will comment more later.

> Also, seems like the coil's start-up characteristics would be different between two methods of applying current:
> (1) use one current to go thru both coils; current has to traverse all of coil A before starting back the other way through coil B. Coil A's field is complete before coil B's field starts up and begins to "cancel" it.

Doesn't work that way.  All the windings sense the field building up and
the induced emf's cancel.

> (2) simultaneously apply oppositely-directed currents to both coils. Each coil is half-charged before they "meet" in the middle.

See above.

> But then there are the induced currents from one coil to the other to take into account, also.

See above.

> I wish I had a scope and a *really* long bifilar coil.
> 
> Has anybody already dealt with these issues?

Yes. About 2 years ago.

> In innocence and ignorance as usual,

Not so.  None of us know everything.

> Dan Quickert

Hi Dan.

Thanks for the input.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:51:53 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:57:32 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Subject: Re: patents
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wesly crosiar wrote:
> 
> Anyone know the Patent# for Paul Pantones system [fuel vaporizing]
>                          or Rory Johnsons Ro-Mag motor patent
> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
> WESLEY CROSIAR

Hi Wesley,

Did you search the IBM patent site?  If its there, you can find it.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 01:23:18 1997
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CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
References: <3.0.32.19970323020841.00daf5a4@mail.localaccess.com> <3335E440.5BAE@tiac.net>
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Bob Shannon wrote:
> 
> Epitaxy wrote:
> >
> > Greg Watson's pictures of the insides of the bifilar coil, are just what I
> > have expected.
> >
> > Please notice the blue spots (low H field) exactly in the middle between
> > each 4 wires.
> 
> This does not match actual testing,  Qfield is not substitute for actual
> testing in any situation.

I agree, but it seems to work very well.

> A good bifilar coil has nearly zero energy under the curve, so no
> significant flux is produced.

No externally usable flux.

> > If this space where the H field cancels out (blue) was occupied by a
> > Bismuth wire, I would expect an observable weight reduction.
> >
> > I have once performed an experiment where a Bismuth sheet was suspended
> > vertically from a spring weight scale between 2 horizontal NIB Permanent
> > Magnets (opposing, just like the wires in your pictures).  When the bismuth
> > sheet was exactly in the middle between the 2 magnets I have repeatedly
> > observed a 15% weight reduction.  I went to great lengths to eliminate the
> > magnetic interaction error from the vertical weight measurements of the
> > bismuth sheet, still the effect remained.
> 
> That's not real weight reduction, but repulsion from max flux density,
> the standard diamagnetic effect.

A 15% reduction in weight when the magnets are in the centre of the
sheet?  Thats not magnetic repulsion.  Any magnetic effects would be
equal up and down.

> > By the same token, if you wound your bifilar coil with a bismuth wire
> > inter-woven with the copper wires (in the blue null zones)  I would expect
> > to observe weight loss when this coil was energized.
> >
> > Bismuth is quite available, but I never seen it in a wire form. How about
> > liquid Bismuth chemical compound (a salt of some sort perhaps) that fills
> > the voids between the copper wires in a sealed bifilar coil.
> >
> > Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
> > properties ?
> >
> > DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???
> 
> Errr, I actually have Bismuth wire!  Weird eh?

Hi Bob,

Where does one obtain bismuth wire?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 03:11:43 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:55:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970324055517_-1370801321@emout19.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Subject: Searl Magnet motor/generator
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Hi Greg and ALL,

Have you seen these documents about the Searl magnet motor/generator, it is
very interesting....

You can find :
- the main principle of the SEG with a simple test's experiment,
- the process to build special magnetisation for the Searl engine,
- many labs notes hands written.......

  http://www.iinet.net.au/~steveb/searl/searl.html

I look forward to receive your comments about this,

Nice to speak with you soon,

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 03:16:24 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: "'Bob Echols'" <echols@maxwell.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: DC current anomaly in bifilar?
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:00:57 -0800
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Does this have a conventional explanation?

I set up a (roughly) bifilar coil as mentioned in my previous post, with =
separate DC voltage source (batteries) for each "side" of the circuit. I =
apply voltage to side A, it draws 200mA at 9V. I then connect side B, =
and see the current in A increase - and remain increased! This is DC. I =
didn't believe it at first, thought it would be just a momentary pulse, =
but it does seem to hold steady. I moved the meter farther from the coil =
and shielded it in case there was some magnetic interference with the =
meter movement, but the effect still showed.

It is a *very* small increase, I had to get a magnifying glass on my =
analog meter to try to quantify it. The rise is something less than =
200micro Amps.

The coil is #30 copper with poly coating, two strands wound roughly =
parallel about 3/16" thick on a 3/4" diameter by 1-1/4" long plastic =
spool.=20

What's going on? Can someone with more accurate instrumentation check =
this out?

Dan Quickert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 04:04:11 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:51:54 +1100 (EST)
From: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Bifilar Coil Construction
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Hi all,

	In response to Dan Quickert's coil construction questions/ideas:
I just wanted to talk about the way I build bifilar coils and ask if
anyone can see any way that this may not be a good idea. (i.e. is this a
good way to make bifilar coils for OU/ZPE/EG research) Being a HAM I
think this is a good way to do it for RF coils, but may not be OK for
scalar electromagnetics.

	When I wind a bifilar coil I get a long piece of enamaled Cu
wire and stretch it slightly, (using a vice to hold one end, the idea to
make it a bit stiffer), then I fold it in the middle so I have 2 parrell
wires and once again clamp it in a vice. Next I attach a DC powered
drill to the free end and twist the two wires while under tension until
there is about one twist every 3-5 mm (depends upon the diameter of the
wire of cause)

	After this long twisted, insulated pair of wires is made, I wind
this onto the core and strip/tin the free ends. If I need to access each
winding independently I cut the loop at the closed end, and strip/tin it
too. (I use a high Z meter to see if there are any shorts btw).

	I have had problems observing scalar effects with coils made
using this procedure, can anyone think why this construction method may
prevent scalar effects from being observed. The balance of coils made
using this method is almost perfect, they have virtually no inductance
in net-non-inductor mode, but very high inductance when used in normal
mode on a ferrite toriod (about 50 turns). They have thousands of
resonant frequencies, dispersed throughout the spectrum at random. (can
anyone confirm this)

	Also, what plane should I be looking in? For a solenoid it
should be directive along the axis, but for a toriod? Should it be in a
plane perpendicular to the axis of the hole-in-the-middle? (cool a
planar isotropic antenna for scalar signals??)

Alan.
--
Alan Yates - VK2ZAY			mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

MD5 Message Digest: c80ce76580e2e9d9d7fb25fb3d061ecd

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 06:52:13 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:40:55 -0500 (EST)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com
Subject: Magnetic Gate V3 - Energy output measurements
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Dear All,

I have made new measurements today on the three stages Magnetic Gate. The
objective of the test is to know the rod kinetic energy at the output of the
Magnetic Gate V3.0.

Magnets used for the magnetic gate: 25x40x10 anisotrop ferrite
Magnet Rod : 9mm diam. 40 Length Alnico (Weight=19g)
Force Input at Entrance ( +6mm in) = 28449 Dynes
Force Input constant and independant of number of MG
The rod is pushed inside the Magnetic gate WITHOUT initial thrust.

Magnetic Gate (MG) Specifications :
MG ext.diam : 100mm
MG1 : 10 magnets
MG2 : 7 magnets
MG3 : 6 magnets
Dist.between MG (from input of MGx to output of MGy) :
MG1-MG2=40 mm
MG1-MG2=115 mm
MG1-MG3=195 mm

Energy output (mJ) ( W=FxD) ( friction force supposed constant) :

With 1 Magnetic Gate = 65.5 mJ
With 2 Magnetic Gate = 70.6 mJ
With 3 Magnetic Gate = 92.9 mJ

You have all the details and the results of the tests in a worksheet on my
web, I give you the direct link :

     http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/mg3rep.htm

I hope that this new tests results will help someone those who are interested
in the Magnetic Gate concept.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 07:25:41 1997
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:10:44 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
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Regarding the experiment of a 15% weight reduction when placing a sheet of
Bismuth between two horizontal magnets,  **IF** the sheet were large compared
to the magnets and this occured you would have the equivalent of an overunity
or perpetual motion machine.  More likely the sheet was small and standard
magnetic repulsion was occuring, as noted by one previous poster.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 07:58:26 1997
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Patent# 3913004 Method and Apparatus for Increasing Electrical Power
Claims three times ouptut [wattage] than input.
  It uses output coils next to the input coils, with a commutator for the
input and slip rings for the output. It makes it very clear that it produces
more [wattage] than it takes to run it.>
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 09:39:17 1997
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In a message dated 3/23/97 4:58:42 PM, Greg Watson asked:

<<Here is some info on the Feynman electromagnetic carousel paradox.  Has
anyone any more info.>>

There has been a lively discussion of this in the American Jour. of Physics.
 The relevant references are: vol 51, p 213, 1983;  vol 53, p 15, 1985;  vol
53, p 496, 1985;  vol 54, p 949, 1986;  vol 59, p 180, 1991.

Hal Puthoff  

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 12:49:22 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: RE: anomalous current in Bifilar coil
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Hi Dan and All!

Your current increase in one leg of a bifilar coil is very interesting.  I
think it is explainable by 'normal science'. Copper is slightly diamagnetic,
and, if I am not mistaken, magnetoresistive. A standard copper wound coil
should have a slight increase in resistance as the the magnetic field around
the coil increases.  In the bifilar coil the magnetic fields are cancelled
so the magnetoresistive effect that is normally present disappears. Does
this sound right to everybody else?
                               Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 14:31:42 1997
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Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> Does this have a conventional explanation?
> 
> I set up a (roughly) bifilar coil as mentioned in my previous post, with separate DC voltage source (batteries) for each "side" of the circuit. I apply voltage to side A, it draws 200mA at 9V. I then connect side B, and see the current in A increase - a
nd remain increased! This is DC. I didn't believe it at first, thought it would be just a momentary pulse, but it does seem to hold steady. I moved the meter farther from the coil and shielded it in case there was some magnetic interference with t
> 
> It is a *very* small increase, I had to get a magnifying glass on my analog meter to try to quantify it. The rise is something less than 200micro Amps.
> 
> The coil is #30 copper with poly coating, two strands wound roughly parallel about 3/16" thick on a 3/4" diameter by 1-1/4" long plastic spool.
> 
> What's going on? Can someone with more accurate instrumentation check this out?
> 
> Dan Quickert

Hi Dan,

Hysteresis in the meter movement?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 15:03:37 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: Bismuth bits and pieces
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Hi Bismuth fans!

   Here's some info I dug up on Bismuth:

1)  Bismuth suppliers:
    AUSTRALIA 
    Bisley & Company Pty. Ltd.- Nonferrous Metallurgical Division
    (http://www.bisley.com.au/nonferro.htm)
    US
    Stanford Materials
    (http://www.stanfordmaterials.com)
    Atlantic Equipment Engineers
    (http://www.micronmetals.com)

    This last company is the only one that quotes prices on their site. The
others you have to email them. I've done so but haven't recieved answers.
    Bismuth lump metal from AEE is 51.98/lb. for quantities up to 2 lbs.
                                   35.85/lb. for larger quantities

2)  I could not find a source for Bismuth wire, but came across interesting
information while looking.  It appears that the Bourgoin superconductor IS
being developed. A quote from a National Science Foundation (US) press release:
   "Theoretically, a small enough filament confined at high pressure would
be a high temperature superconductor".
Also:
   "Several companies such as the American Superconducting Corporation and
the Intermagnetic General Corporation now make 100 m bismuth based HTS wires
able to carry currents of 10,000 A/cm2. Unfortunately, the wires can't
operate yet in high magnetic fields which precludes their use in magnets and
motors..."

3)  Check out http://204.156.144.215/IUFOG/Lazar/115-prop.html for a
discussion of Bismuth fragments found in saucer crashes and researched in
Gov. labs. with antigravity effects.

4) Jorge Resines' book "Some Free Energy Devices" has two chapters about
"The New Age Battery Which Recapture The Solar Force", a device supposedly
channelled from ETs in the 1970's. It is composed of 5 layers:
layer 1 (top)  BiSeO2
      2        Manganese (crushed)
      3        MgO2
      4        Fe2O3
      5        BiSeO2
These are layered in a transparent nonmetallic container. Terminal
connections are applied to specific layers and then run to the two ends of a
ferrite rod around which is wound a caduceus coil which supplies the power
output. The device supposedly produces 250 Watts at 1000 Hz. Complete
construction details are given. It is said to operate on the same principle
as the Moray device.
  I recognize the justifiable scepticism about channelled material but there
are so many overlaps with other bits of information that are out there, namely
1) US Naval laboratory produces Bi-Mn high remanence magnets
2) UFO fragments contain Bi-Mg layers
3) Antigravity effects reported with Bi
4) Unusual forms of conductivity reported with Bi

It seems that it would be worthwhile to duplicate this device. Resines book
is (I think) still in print from Borderlands, but if you can't get ahold of
it, let me know and I'll send you the info.
 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 18:29:15 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:55:41 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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Fred -

Quit posting all these keepers, will you? You're filling up my hard
disk. <g>

Thanks for the bismuth info. I just ordered a 1# bag of powder from
Micron Metals. The fine mesh powder should load well in epoxy and so
forth for custom cast forms of fairly good density. The stuff has a
kitchen oven melting point at about 521 deg.F (it's used in some
solders), so it should be easy to cast solid if I need solid metal
sheet. Wire might be difficult, as it's fairly brittle. I might try
drawing pieces through holes in a steel plate - maybe in a propane flame
if I can keep the heat just right - indirectly near the drawing hole. 

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 19:45:52 1997
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Alan Yates wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>         In response to Dan Quickert's coil construction questions/ideas:
> I just wanted to talk about the way I build bifilar coils and ask if
> anyone can see any way that this may not be a good idea. (i.e. is this a
> good way to make bifilar coils for OU/ZPE/EG research) Being a HAM I
> think this is a good way to do it for RF coils, but may not be OK for
> scalar electromagnetics.
> 
>         When I wind a bifilar coil I get a long piece of enamaled Cu
> wire and stretch it slightly, (using a vice to hold one end, the idea to
> make it a bit stiffer), then I fold it in the middle so I have 2 parrell
> wires and once again clamp it in a vice. Next I attach a DC powered
> drill to the free end and twist the two wires while under tension until
> there is about one twist every 3-5 mm (depends upon the diameter of the
> wire of cause)
> 
>         After this long twisted, insulated pair of wires is made, I wind
> this onto the core and strip/tin the free ends. If I need to access each
> winding independently I cut the loop at the closed end, and strip/tin it
> too. (I use a high Z meter to see if there are any shorts btw).
> 
>         I have had problems observing scalar effects with coils made
> using this procedure, can anyone think why this construction method may
> prevent scalar effects from being observed. The balance of coils made
> using this method is almost perfect, they have virtually no inductance
> in net-non-inductor mode, but very high inductance when used in normal
> mode on a ferrite toriod (about 50 turns). They have thousands of
> resonant frequencies, dispersed throughout the spectrum at random. (can
> anyone confirm this)

What effects were you trying to get?  How were you matching to the
impedance of the net-non inductor?

Do you have a detector?

Yes, I can confirm the resonant frequancies based on the construction
methods used, I also suggest you note any changes in these complex
resonances with different conditions proximate to the coil, such as
other coils excited by a signal generator and matching network.

Then try to sheild the effect.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 19:53:01 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:34:05 +0000
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi Dan and All!
> 
> Your current increase in one leg of a bifilar coil is very interesting.  I
> think it is explainable by 'normal science'. Copper is slightly diamagnetic,
> and, if I am not mistaken, magnetoresistive. A standard copper wound coil
> should have a slight increase in resistance as the the magnetic field around
> the coil increases.  In the bifilar coil the magnetic fields are cancelled
> so the magnetoresistive effect that is normally present disappears. Does
> this sound right to everybody else?
>                                Fred

I'll buy that for a dollar! 

What say Greg?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 20:03:34 1997
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Greg Watson wrote:

<snip>
 
> > A good bifilar coil has nearly zero energy under the curve, so no
> > significant flux is produced.
> 
> No externally usable flux.

No significant internal flux either.  Again, the applied current rise
very clearly shows no significant energy being stored in any magnetic
field, internal or external, however distorted.

You see, it's far easiler to measure this than to correctly calculate
what will really happen.  Try it Greg!

> > That's not real weight reduction, but repulsion from max flux density,
> > the standard diamagnetic effect.
> 
> A 15% reduction in weight when the magnets are in the centre of the
> sheet?  Thats not magnetic repulsion.  Any magnetic effects would be
> equal up and down.

I've seen a deliberate hoax based on diamagnetisim and a strongly
divergent field, such as exists when opposed macropoles interact in
oppostion (tricky teacher actually).  We have to rule diamagnetic
effects out before we can really call this weight reduction.

It's interesting to play with bits of bismuth and aluminum on a string
in a divergent field, where bismuth is repelled while aluminum is
attracted.

> > > By the same token, if you wound your bifilar coil with a bismuth wire
> > > inter-woven with the copper wires (in the blue null zones)  I would expect
> > > to observe weight loss when this coil was energized.
> > >
> > > Bismuth is quite available, but I never seen it in a wire form. How about
> > > liquid Bismuth chemical compound (a salt of some sort perhaps) that fills
> > > the voids between the copper wires in a sealed bifilar coil.
> > >
> > > Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
> > > properties ?
> > >
> > > DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???
> >
> > Errr, I actually have Bismuth wire!  Weird eh?
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> Where does one obtain bismuth wire?

I received a bag of spools of exotic wires some years back.  I've got
Bismuth, Silver, Molybdenum, Ag/Be/Cu alloys (several) and then some
really exotic stuff, with some of the more exotic metals in Ag/Be alloy
bases.

Then there's the unlabeld stuff I have no idea about.  Probably out of a
R&D lab developing solid state microwave devices.

Why?  I dunno.  Where? At one of the many surplus houses in my area. 
(MA)

(The Moly wire came from the manufacture of vacuum tube grids, it's on
spools labeld RCA Victor Division.

> 
> --
> Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
> Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
>                                           61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 21:04:44 1997
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Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> (I sent this to Greg Watson yesterday, but forgot to copy the lists)
> 
> A bifilar coil could be represented as two separate coils wound the same > direction over the same core, with the current in one coil going in opposite > direction to the current in the other, right?

This is correct.

> 
> So when the coils are both energized, we detect no net field, but the fields
> are there. 

Wrong.  When current is applied to the bifilar coil, current reached V/R
as fast as the stray inductance permits.  Without inductance, and a
delay in current reaching V/R, there is no energy stored in the space
around the conductors, which we call the field.  What remains, are the
potentials, not the fields.

> And if we remove current from both at once, we get no net energy out. But what
> happens when we de-energize just one of the coils? Suddenly there is a net field > (from the coil still energized). Anything useful in that?

Once we stop current flowing through one conductor of the bifilar coil,
the remaining conductor suddenly becomes inductive, and effects the
current while building a field.  As this field grow, it will induce a
current into the other conductor (assuming it to be open) according to
conventional behaviors.
 
> Also, seems like the coil's start-up characteristics would be different between 
> two methods of applying current:
> (1) use one current to go thru both coils; current has to traverse all of 
> coil A before starting back the other way through coil B. Coil A's field is
> complete before coil B's field starts up and begins to "cancel" it.

> (2) simultaneously apply oppositely-directed currents to both coils. Each coil
> is half-charged before they "meet" in the middle.

This is most often done in practice because the small electrostatic
gridents along each conductor (due to its resistance) also cancel, and
every vector electromagnetic expression must be prevented to enhance any
scalar yeild.

> But then there are the induced currents from one coil to the other to take 
> into account, also.

These also cancel, that is, seek an alternate expression.

> I wish I had a scope and a *really* long bifilar coil.
> 
> Has anybody already dealt with these issues?

Excellent questions.  In practice, the first method of current delivery
often actually works because the current propogation time through the
coils is very fast,` as there is no net inductance.  Silver coating the
conductors really pays off here.

The second method is really better though.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 22:44:09 1997
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: Bismuth bits and pieces
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At 02:22 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Bismuth fans!
>
>   Here's some info I dug up on Bismuth:
>
>1)  Bismuth suppliers:
>    AUSTRALIA 
>    Bisley & Company Pty. Ltd.- Nonferrous Metallurgical Division
>    (http://www.bisley.com.au/nonferro.htm)
>    US
>    Stanford Materials
>    (http://www.stanfordmaterials.com)
>    Atlantic Equipment Engineers
>    (http://www.micronmetals.com)
>
>    This last company is the only one that quotes prices on their site. The
>others you have to email them. I've done so but haven't recieved answers.
>    Bismuth lump metal from AEE is 51.98/lb. for quantities up to 2 lbs.
>                                   35.85/lb. for larger quantities
>
>2)  I could not find a source for Bismuth wire, but came across interesting
>information while looking.  It appears that the Bourgoin superconductor IS
>being developed. A quote from a National Science Foundation (US) press release:
>   "Theoretically, a small enough filament confined at high pressure would
>be a high temperature superconductor".
>Also:
>   "Several companies such as the American Superconducting Corporation and
>the Intermagnetic General Corporation now make 100 m bismuth based HTS wires
>able to carry currents of 10,000 A/cm2. Unfortunately, the wires can't
>operate yet in high magnetic fields which precludes their use in magnets and
>motors..."
>
>3)  Check out http://204.156.144.215/IUFOG/Lazar/115-prop.html for a
>discussion of Bismuth fragments found in saucer crashes and researched in
>Gov. labs. with antigravity effects.
>
>4) Jorge Resines' book "Some Free Energy Devices" has two chapters about
>"The New Age Battery Which Recapture The Solar Force", a device supposedly
>channelled from ETs in the 1970's. It is composed of 5 layers:
>layer 1 (top)  BiSeO2
>      2        Manganese (crushed)
>      3        MgO2
>      4        Fe2O3
>      5        BiSeO2
>These are layered in a transparent nonmetallic container. Terminal
>connections are applied to specific layers and then run to the two ends of a
>ferrite rod around which is wound a caduceus coil which supplies the power
>output. The device supposedly produces 250 Watts at 1000 Hz. Complete
>construction details are given. It is said to operate on the same principle
>as the Moray device.
>  I recognize the justifiable scepticism about channelled material but there
>are so many overlaps with other bits of information that are out there, namely
>1) US Naval laboratory produces Bi-Mn high remanence magnets
>2) UFO fragments contain Bi-Mg layers
>3) Antigravity effects reported with Bi
>4) Unusual forms of conductivity reported with Bi
>
>It seems that it would be worthwhile to duplicate this device. Resines book
>is (I think) still in print from Borderlands, but if you can't get ahold of
>it, let me know and I'll send you the info.
> 
>
>Thanks for the info I look into and yes please send the detials when able
geoff
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 23:04:51 1997
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Message-ID: <33379005.23C7@keelynet.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:42:45 -0800
From: Jerry Decker <jdecker@keelynet.com>
Organization: KeelyNet
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Hi Folks!

The levitating frog, water and other organic material is at:

          http://www.hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitage.html

and the URL is also posted at keelynet, click below.
-- 
               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 23:31:41 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:19:21 +1100 (EST)
From: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
Reply-To: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
To: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>,
        Free Energy Discussion List <freeng-l@eskimo.com>
cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coil Construction
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On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Bob Shannon wrote:

> ... <my article sniped> ...
>
> What effects were you trying to get?  How were you matching to the
> impedance of the net-non inductor?
> 
> Do you have a detector?

	I was looking for any induced signal in a receiving coil of
similar dimensions/construction, inside a Faraday shield and connected
to my osciliscope.

	This is my current detector, I am not a fan of capacitor/jfet
opamp detectors, I find that most of the signal I measure is just
artifacts of the amplifier, besides they have basically zero bandwidth.
I tried to build a detector that uses nonlinear domain transitions, but
it suffered from magnetic interference from my power supplies, I couldn't
afford a mu metal shield, so I used some pipes and a cast iron pot.

	Perhaps I am just too much of a pessimist, I have seen spikes
induced in the receiving coil that I tried to explain as EM effects, but
the source was inside a block of ferrite and a aluminum case put inside
an iron pipe with end caps. The feed signal was taken in through coax.

	Matching is a bit of a problem, its impedance is not very
deterministic, I try to resonate a L or Pi matching network to the coil
while varying the frequency of the signal and keeping up with the
changes in resonant frequencies of the bifilar coil. It seams to change
frequency as I get closer to resonance, like as if the matching network
is pulling the resonance of the bifilar coil.

	Strangely, if I just blast away with the signal generator into
the bifilar coil it works better, as far as observing signals on the CRO
go that is. I have made extensive efforts to try to isolate the
instruments from each other as well.

> Yes, I can confirm the resonant frequencies based on the construction
> methods used, I also suggest you note any changes in these complex
> resonances with different conditions proximate to the coil, such as
> other coils excited by a signal generator and matching network.
> 
> Then try to shield the effect.

	I have noticed that whenever I try to measure the frequencies of
the same coil at different times it is always different, I will try
moving the coil around in space while sweeping it some time this week.
I find that forcing RF noise (from a noise diode source) into the coil
while observing the signal across the coil with a spectrum analyzer
shows thousands of fine lines of absorption from 'DC to daylight'.

Alan.
--
Alan Yates - VK2ZAY			mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

MD5 Message Digest: cd3a5d19580119226bec2ac99ef31d6a

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 23:39:42 1997
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From: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
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To: Free Energy Discussion List <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Bob Shannon wrote:

> ... <my article sniped> ...
>
> What effects were you trying to get?  How were you matching to the
> impedance of the net-non inductor?
> 
> Do you have a detector?

	I was looking for any induced signal in a receiving coil of
similar dimensions/construction, inside a Faraday shield and connected
to my osciliscope.

	This is my current detector, I am not a fan of capacitor/jfet
opamp detectors, I find that most of the signal I measure is just
artifacts of the amplifier, besides they have basically zero bandwidth.
I tried to build a detector that uses nonlinear domain transitions, but
it suffered from magnetic interference from my power supplies, I couldn't
afford a mu metal shield, so I used some pipes and a cast iron pot.

	Perhaps I am just too much of a pessimist, I have seen spikes
induced in the receiving coil that I tried to explain as EM effects, but
the source was inside a block of ferrite and a aluminum case put inside
an iron pipe with end caps. The feed signal was taken in through coax.

	Matching is a bit of a problem, its impedance is not very
deterministic, I try to resonate a L or Pi matching network to the coil
while varying the frequency of the signal and keeping up with the
changes in resonant frequencies of the bifilar coil. It seams to change
frequency as I get closer to resonance, like as if the matching network
is pulling the resonance of the bifilar coil.

	Strangely, if I just blast away with the signal generator into
the bifilar coil it works better, as far as observing signals on the CRO
go that is. I have made extensive efforts to try to isolate the
instruments from each other as well.

> Yes, I can confirm the resonant frequencies based on the construction
> methods used, I also suggest you note any changes in these complex
> resonances with different conditions proximate to the coil, such as
> other coils excited by a signal generator and matching network.
> 
> Then try to shield the effect.

	I have noticed that whenever I try to measure the frequencies of
the same coil at different times it is always different, I will try
moving the coil around in space while sweeping it some time this week.
I find that forcing RF noise (from a noise diode source) into the coil
while observing the signal across the coil with a spectrum analyzer
shows thousands of fine lines of absorption from 'DC to daylight'.

Alan.
--
Alan Yates - VK2ZAY			mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

MD5 Message Digest: cd3a5d19580119226bec2ac99ef31d6a

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 01:33:07 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:23:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Thomas Mahanna <tmahanna@ziplink.net>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth bits and pieces
In-Reply-To: <199703250718.RAA27464@main.murray.net.au>
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> >"The New Age Battery Which Recapture The Solar Force", a device supposedly

This sounds like it would be fun to build. A quick look in the Aldrich
Catalog shows :


	Bismuth   99+% (50g).... $18
	Magnesium 99%  (25g).... $12

These are chips which could be stacked for this battery. Does anyone know
where these could be gotten for less? Or can magnesium be stripped from an
alkaline battery case or something like that?



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 01:42:45 1997
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>[snip]
>I may well be wrong, but I have a suspicion that the strange properties of
>Bi are related to the fact that it has a rhombohedral crystal structure.
>Perhaps stretching the metal leads to better alignment of individual
>crystals? If you visit my web page, you will see how this structure is
>linked to the existence of room temperature Bose-Einstein condensates, and
>I suspect therewith, room temperature superconductivity (but only in
>specific crystal planes).

Have you seen the book with the name: "Occult Chemistry", by Leadbeater and
Besant?
In that book (first edition 1912), are ALL chemical elements described how
they are made by the nature on a sub-atomic level, by a 'thing' they call
"Ultimate Physical Atom". Hydrogen (H) is made up with 18 of these heart-like
spiralized spiralized spiralized ... spirals.
exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet!
mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se
http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 01:52:03 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:29:05 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde@worldnet.att.net>
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Keasy@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Regarding the experiment of a 15% weight reduction when placing a sheet of
> Bismuth between two horizontal magnets,  **IF** the sheet were large compared
> to the magnets and this occured you would have the equivalent of an overunity
> or perpetual motion machine.  More likely the sheet was small and standard
> magnetic repulsion was occuring, as noted by one previous poster.

Wait a second - bismuth's not *that* diamagnetic, is it? 15%??? That's
big. Does that sound normal? I think either Epitaxy must be completely
wrong about the measurements or that's really something different.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 03:19:17 1997
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Subject: Re: Bismuth
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> Have you seen the book with the name: "Occult Chemistry", by Leadbeater and
> Besant?

I read that, it was really great.

These musings reminded me of a video tape I watched once called "Magneto
Chemistry". A Gouy Balance was propped on top of a draft-free cabinet
where a glass enclosed sample of a compound such as MnSO4.4H2O was
reweighed in a magnetic field to see if the weight changed as a result of
the field. I don't remember the results, but I'd be glad to locate it
again if anyone's interested.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 06:37:43 1997
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Sender: "Gene Batten" <mdleb@nortel.ca>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: "Gene Batten" <mdleb@nortel.ca>
Subject: RE: Magnetic Organic Levitation
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Is the URL listed below correct? I tried it and continued to
get an "error" message from Netscape. I also tried several
variations in case there was a typo, still no success.

In message "Magnetic Organic Levitation", you write:

> Hi Folks!
> 
> The levitating frog, water and other organic material is at:
> 
>           http://www.hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitage.html
> 
> and the URL is also posted at keelynet, click below.
> -- 
>                Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>         http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
>        Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
>      KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187
> 
>                                       

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 06:45:46 1997
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Message-ID: <33375A9F.6A76@csnsys.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:54:55 -0800
From: Scarry Larry <lsradk@csnsys.com>
Organization: DISORGANIZED
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wesly crosiar wrote:
> 
> Patent# 3913004 Method and Apparatus for Increasing Electrical Power
> Claims three times ouptut [wattage] than input.

Hi Wesley,
does it look like a complicated project to build one of these machines
or does it look like it may only take some puttering?
i'd love it if somebody would unleash the economic impact of free energy
to the masses. Greedy energy companies would be forced to rethink their
reason for existance!

Thanks for your answer,

Larry

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 08:32:26 1997
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From: LLIPKA@oa.ithaca.edu
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:05:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Bismuth
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 video tape Magneto Chemistry   I am interested
      Please send the info.  (llipka@oaithaca.edu)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 12:55:28 1997
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From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: Re: overunity patent
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At 08:54 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>wesly crosiar wrote:
>> 
>> Patent# 3913004 Method and Apparatus for Increasing Electrical Power
>> Claims three times ouptut [wattage] than input.
>
>Hi Wesley,
>does it look like a complicated project to build one of these machines
>or does it look like it may only take some puttering?

>Larry: I disassembled a small permanent magnet motor that I used  to pump
my water in the past. It looks like it would take a day at most to modify an
existing motor [if you have a small lathe]. Just take off the old windings
and wind two new windings parallel. Hook one winding to the commutator [as
shown in the patent], and the other to a set of sliprings [as shown in the
patent] that you can make from nylon with a piece of copper pipe. mount the
sliprings on the opposite side of the commutator, the existing commutator
can be used. The sliprings would need to be turned on a small lathe. If you
could remove the permanent magnets from the motor housing and epoxy them to
a piece of PVC you could add the additional length that would be needed for
installing the sliprings and additional brushes. you should be able to use
the existing ends and bearing assemblies.
  The images are not shown in the IBM patent, but are there if you download
it, I use www.mircopat.com  They are slow but the quality is fantastic. 
  The motor referred to above was used at a continuous speed to run a
hydraulic or air powered motor, which in turn powered a car. 
  An ideal motor to modify is a pump motor, sold by alternative energy
engineering. It pumps two gallons a minute, sixty feet of head, using only
two amps at twerlve volts. This motor is three to four times as efficient as
most motors.
  I think it may be of interest to others so I will quote a paragraph from
the patent. 
  
 Referring now to this method of increasing electrical power, input
alteranting current is applied to a primary winding to both motor and
alternately magnetize a core. The said primary winding is immersed in a
field and consequently is caused to motor and simultaneously to perform the
first stage of transforming, A second stage of transforming is then
performed by a secondary winding associated with said core to function as
both a transformer and a generator winding, and the output current is drawn
therfrom at an increased power value as compared with the input power: since
the current induced by transformer action is superimposed upon the current
generated in cutting the magnteic lines of force by motoring the secondary
winding through said field. The direct application af AC power to the
primary winding is contemplated, however the present and preferred
embodiment employs commutation of DC power which is thereby inverted to ac
power in the process of motoring said windings and the core means in which
they are carried thgether with the secondary winding. The net result is
THREE FOLD,  in that there is a motoring function, a transforming function
and a generating function: all of which are inherently synchronized to
increase the output power with respect the the input power.

ONE MORE QUOTE
 Draws fourty eight volts DC at twenty five amps at twelve hundred watts to
rotate at 1750 RPM  while the secondary windings are comprised of a number
of turns of conductor to efficiently deliver sixty cycle 110 volts AC at 32
amps or 3520 Watts; the voltmeter used to read these values upon an actual
reduction to practice being calibrated to read the root-mean-square [rms]
value of the pure sine wave, which is 70.7% of the peak voltage.
  Consequently, there is a multiplying of power applied  through the slip
rings to the output brushes and this increased output power is measurable as
described and doubled or almost triple that of the imput power.
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 14:09:24 1997
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Subject: Re: overunity patent
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At 08:54 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>wesly crosiar wrote:
>> 
>> Patent# 3913004 Method and Apparatus for Increasing Electrical Power
>> Claims three times ouptut [wattage] than input.
>
>Hi Wesley,
>does it look like a complicated project to build one of these machines
>or does it look like it may only take some puttering?

>Larry: Second answer: I just checked out an old generator I have. It has
both a commutator and slip rings already!! All one has to do is find a junk
one and rewind it. Then replace the electro/stator magnets with permanent
ones. This is what they say they did in the patent.
>
>
>
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 14:15:12 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:49:15 -0500
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica@world.std.com>
Subject: Cold Fusion Times volume 5, number 2 at printer
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                        March 25, 1997

  Dear colleagues:

Cold Fusion Times  vol 5 number 2 (Spring 97) is on its way
to the printer, and should be in subscribers hands
shortly next week.

 As always, the COLD FUSION TIMES presents
focused hard-core science and engineering issues,
with detailed material and nuclear science
analysis of developments in the cold fusion field.

  Discussions and a brief survey of some of the content in this issue
include the following:

 - More Quality Confirmations of Cold Fusion including
  Correlated Nuclear Signatures consisting of 
    Linked Heat and Helium Measurements, and 
    Linked low-level Excess Neutron and Heat in Pd Systems
 - Anomalous Heat, Anomalous Isotopic Distributions
 - PATENT WARS: CETI challenges Dr. Fleischmann and Pons
 - More Details on new Cold Fusion movie - "The Saint"
 - Nickel, Palladium, and other metal systems
 - Gas Loading, Solid State, Electrolysis Systems
 - Reports from Japan, Italy, China, DoE, ....
 - Continuing ICCF-6 Reviews
 - More journals you may have missed
 - OP-ED Column
 - Updates on Equipment, Supplies, Consulting Available
 - Practical Information and Reference Vectors
 - "What's Happening", "Material Science and Engineering"
    and more

   The cover page, as always, is available at the
COLD FUSION TIMES web site, located at
   http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
[other references, URLS, on-site papers available,
covers of past issues, and a virtual reality site [CFT-VR site].

  Best wishes.
   Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com)


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 15:47:06 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:23:27 -0800
From: Jerry Decker <jdecker@keelynet.com>
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Hi Folks!

Sorry, I had a typo in the flippin URL it is:

           http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html


-- 
               Jerry W. Decker   /   jdecker@keelynet.com
        http://www.keelynet.com  /  "From an Art to a Science"
       Voice :  (214) 324-8741   /   KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
     KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 17:10:09 1997
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Message-ID: <33387D25.561C@microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:04:29 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson@microtronics.com.au>
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Jerry Decker wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks!
> 
> Sorry, I had a typo in the flippin URL it is:
> 
>            http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html

Hi Jerry,

Wow!  Wonder if that frog will be as famous as the the Russian dog?

Don't think I would like to be the first human to be exposed to such
high fields.

Any takers?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 18:40:40 1997
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Alan Yates wrote:

>         I was looking for any induced signal in a receiving coil of
> similar dimensions/construction, inside a Faraday shield and connected
> to my osciliscope.

To my understanding, this should not work.  The bifilar coil is no
different from the metalic Faraday cage, so the scalar wave simply will
not interact with it in any directly observable way.
 
>         This is my current detector, I am not a fan of capacitor/jfet
> opamp detectors, I find that most of the signal I measure is just
> artifacts of the amplifier, besides they have basically zero bandwidth.
> I tried to build a detector that uses nonlinear domain transitions, but
> it suffered from magnetic interference from my power supplies, I couldn't
> afford a mu metal shield, so I used some pipes and a cast iron pot.

Pipes and pots may sound rather 'MacGuyverish', but are perfectly sound
for all but the lowest frequancies.

I'm very interested to hear more about your non-linear domain detector. 
I've published the design for one of these beasts on Bills web site some
time back, runs on batteries so power supply noise is not a factor. 
Lets compare notes!
 
>         Perhaps I am just too much of a pessimist, I have seen spikes
> induced in the receiving coil that I tried to explain as EM effects, but
> the source was inside a block of ferrite and a aluminum case put inside
> an iron pipe with end caps. The feed signal was taken in through coax.

Skeptic-buster #27, place a unshielded conventional coil between the
detector and signal source, and feed this into another channel of your
oscilloscope with a wide band preamp.  If your detector is reacting, and
the conventional coil is deaf to the event, your probably there already.

But a good detector needs to show you scalar background noise.  Often a
standing wave is detected by a localized 'lump' in the background noise
level.

>         Matching is a bit of a problem, its impedance is not very
> deterministic, I try to resonate a L or Pi matching network to the coil
> while varying the frequency of the signal and keeping up with the
> changes in resonant frequencies of the bifilar coil. It seams to change
> frequency as I get closer to resonance, like as if the matching network
> is pulling the resonance of the bifilar coil.

Just maybe, as we build the scalar field from the opposed potentials (no
longer being expressed as a magnetic field) we see the Aharnov-Bohm
effect, which alters the phase of the input energy, which already has an
AC power factor due to the reactances of the matching network.
 
>         Strangely, if I just blast away with the signal generator into
> the bifilar coil it works better, as far as observing signals on the CRO
> go that is. I have made extensive efforts to try to isolate the
> instruments from each other as well.

Current and voltage are in phase, with a near zero power factor into the
bifilar coil, which helps.

Use a resistive load only.  I place the loading resistors in the 'cold'
end of the coil, so the bifilar coil floats above signal ground by the
voltage dropped by the loading resistors.
 
> > Yes, I can confirm the resonant frequencies based on the construction
> > methods used, I also suggest you note any changes in these complex
> > resonances with different conditions proximate to the coil, such as
> > other coils excited by a signal generator and matching network.
> >
> > Then try to shield the effect.
> 
>         I have noticed that whenever I try to measure the frequencies of
> the same coil at different times it is always different, I will try
> moving the coil around in space while sweeping it some time this week.
> I find that forcing RF noise (from a noise diode source) into the coil
> while observing the signal across the coil with a spectrum analyzer
> shows thousands of fine lines of absorption from 'DC to daylight'.

Bingo!  Try this:

Place the bifilar coil coaxially within a larger diameter coil of only a
few turns. 
Connect this large loop coil to the spectrum analyzer input.  Terminate
the bifilar coil with a resistive load equal to the source impendance,
and blast away with broadband RF noise.

Place this assembly withing your old pots and pipes.

Now, external to the above "Field Interference Detector" you take
another bifilar coil, and shield the heck out of it too, just for good
measure.  Pump this 'sending' coil with an RF signal generator.

Note any reaction at 2f in the spectral content of the noise picked up
by the loop.

But wait, why is the loop getting noise coupled to it from the bifilar
coil?  There will be some EM leakage, so you CAN actually sheild the
noise fed bifilar coil from the pickup loop, and the detector will still
work.

The RF noise produces scalar white noise.  Indicent scalar waves
interact with the local noise, and yeild EM bleedoff.  This will couple
to the pickup loop, and we will have an EM copy of the incident scalar
wave.

Anybody see how to make a tranceiver this way?
 
Oh yes, why 2f?  At 180 degrees opposed, we have 2 points of maximum
stress per cycle, so the bifilar coil has a 2f EM to scalar translation
effect.  Cool eh?

Warm up your irons and try it.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 22:04:13 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:40:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Thomas Mahanna <tmahanna@ziplink.net>
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Subject: Re: Bismuth
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On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 LLIPKA@oa.ithaca.edu wrote:

>  video tape Magneto Chemistry   I am interested
>       Please send the info.  (llipka@oaithaca.edu)

MAGNETOCHEMISTRY (c) 1986
Films for the Humanities and Sciences, Inc.
Box 2053
Princeton, NJ  08543



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 22:10:08 1997
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From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: free energy book
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To ALL: I sent off for the "HIGH VOLTAGE AND FREE ENERGY DEVICE BOOK"
BY George Moonhie, that Jerry Decker recomends on his webpage. I read it and
would recomend it to everyone. It has EV Gray secrets that make sense, hv
cap construction, hv coil construction, hv solenoid construction, simple EV
Gray demo, water arc explosions, and more. It is the best seventeen dollars
I have spent in a while. CHECK IT OUT. 
  You can order it from  JRS DISTRIBUTION
                         1221 STATE ST.
                         SCHENECTADY, NY 12304

OR GO TO JERRYS WEBPAGE    www.keelynet.com
PS THEY SENT IT PROMPTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 22:13:52 1997
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Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:01:43 +1000
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: free energy book
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At 09:32 PM 3/25/97 -0800, you wrote:
>To ALL: I sent off for the "HIGH VOLTAGE AND FREE ENERGY DEVICE BOOK"
>BY George Moonhie, that Jerry Decker recomends on his webpage. I read it and
>would recomend it to everyone. It has EV Gray secrets that make sense, hv
>cap construction, hv coil construction, hv solenoid construction, simple EV
>Gray demo, water arc explosions, and more. It is the best seventeen dollars
>I have spent in a while. CHECK IT OUT. 
>  You can order it from  JRS DISTRIBUTION
>                         1221 STATE ST.
>                         SCHENECTADY, NY 12304
>
>OR GO TO JERRYS WEBPAGE    www.keelynet.com
>PS THEY SENT IT PROMPTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
>crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
>WESLEY CROSIAR 
>PO BOX 268 
>SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249
>
>
>I too have purchased the above booklet and thought it well worth the money
 that I paid for it.
 Geoff Egel
http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 05:48:03 1997
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From: "Pete Roberts (UK)" <PeteRoberts@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Bismuth bits and pieces
To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Thomas,

<snip>
>>Or can magnesium be stripped from an alkaline battery case or something
like that?<<
<snip>
Alkaline batteries don't contain any magnesium, or at least not any sold
here in the UK; the outer case is steel and the active materials are zinc
and  a manganese dioxide/carbon mixture.  They have an "inside out"
construction with the zinc negative pole in the centre of the cell and the
(+) carbon/depolariser mix in contact with the steel casing.

Magnesium is used in a variety of alloys (usally based on aluminium) where
weight is critical.  If you could find a foundry that makes magnesium
alloys, they may be able to sell you an ingot of pure magnesium.  I shudder
to think of the price though:-(  Otherwise, you might have to use the
magnesium ribbon sold by  laboratory suppliers.

Regards,

Pete.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 06:48:13 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:45:32 +1100 (EST)
From: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
Reply-To: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
To: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>,
        Free Energy Discussion List <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Scalar Detectors
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On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Bob Shannon wrote:

<My Current Detector Discription Sniped>
> To my understanding, this should not work.  The bifilar coil is no
> different from the metalic Faraday cage, so the scalar wave simply will
> not interact with it in any directly observable way.

	Yep, that makes sense, I have no idea how I ever expected it to
work in the first place, maybe I was thinking of it too much like a
antenna. If I placed the whole device inside a static (HUGE) magnetic
field I might expect to get some effects.

> I'm very interested to hear more about your non-linear domain detector. 
> I've published the design for one of these beasts on Bills web site some
> time back, runs on batteries so power supply noise is not a factor. 
> Lets compare notes!

	I will put the pictures and details up on the web once I get the
photos developed and scanned. I will include some CRO shots and stuff
too. Basically it is a *huge* divergent static field passing through a
rusty piece on old power transformer lamination (Si steel I believe, I
couldn't even tell you where I got it from, but the grains are sure
big) around which is wound a 4000 or so turn pickup coil, the signal is
amplified by a LF353 with a gain of about 100 inside the device, and
further outside the shielding by another LF353 amp.

> Skeptic-buster #27, place a unshielded conventional coil between the
> detector and signal source, and feed this into another channel of your
> oscilloscope with a wide band preamp.  If your detector is reacting, and
> the conventional coil is deaf to the event, your probably there already.

	Yeah I did, an it showed no signal, (very little ~ much less).
Does this mean I sent a scalar signal across the room. I modulated the
RF I feed into the TX coil with a 1Khz Sine wave, this could be seen in
the noisy, but clear response of the RX coil.

> But a good detector needs to show you scalar background noise.  Often a
> standing wave is detected by a localized 'lump' in the background noise
> level.

	I don't think my detectors are sensitive enough yet, the
non-linear domain one does produce signifiant noise, I put it down to
thermal noise, perhaps this needs further tests.

> >         Strangely, if I just blast away with the signal generator into
> > the bifilar coil it works better, as far as observing signals on the CRO
> > go that is. I have made extensive efforts to try to isolate the
> > instruments from each other as well.
> 
> Current and voltage are in phase, with a near zero power factor into the
> bifilar coil, which helps.
> 
> Use a resistive load only.  I place the loading resistors in the 'cold'
> end of the coil, so the bifilar coil floats above signal ground by the
> voltage dropped by the loading resistors.

	I'll try that, perhaps a balanced source would be better, I will
try to use a balun to feed a bifilar coil and see what that does. I am
worried about the baluns effects upon the coil though as the only
practical wideband balun in a toroidal transformer.

<Sniped stuff>
> Bingo!  Try this:
> 
> Place the bifilar coil coaxially within a larger diameter coil of only a
> few turns. 
> Connect this large loop coil to the spectrum analyzer input.  Terminate
> the bifilar coil with a resistive load equal to the source impendance,
> and blast away with broadband RF noise.
> 
> Place this assembly withing your old pots and pipes.
> 
> Now, external to the above "Field Interference Detector" you take
> another bifilar coil, and shield the heck out of it too, just for good
> measure.  Pump this 'sending' coil with an RF signal generator.
> 
> Note any reaction at 2f in the spectral content of the noise picked up
> by the loop.

	OK, sounds like a good project for the weekend. I have another
idea for a scalar detector too, it works on a inteference principle too,
it may useless/impractical for distant sources, but local or beam
signals should work OK. I can't include details in this mail, but I will
write them up and post it here in the next few days. Before we can study
the damn things we have to be able to detect them.

Alan.
--
Alan Yates - VK2ZAY			mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 12:57:30 1997
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From: Dan Quickert <dequickert@ucdavis.edu>
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Subject: RE: anomalous current in Bifilar coil
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:21:14 -0800
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Fred Epps wrote:

 >Hi Dan and All!
 >
 >Your current increase in one leg of a bifilar coil is very =
interesting.  I
 >think it is explainable by 'normal science'. Copper is slightly =
diamagnetic,
 >and, if I am not mistaken, magnetoresistive. A standard copper wound =
coil
 >should have a slight increase in resistance as the the magnetic field =
around
 >the coil increases.  In the bifilar coil the magnetic fields are =
cancelled
 >so the magnetoresistive effect that is normally present disappears. =
Does
 >this sound right to everybody else?
 >                               Fred

Thanks, Fred. That sounds like the best explanation to me too.
I was able to visit a friend with lab access this weekend, and did a =
little testing. I wanted to compare the coil's resistance with a very =
low versus a very high induced magnetic field. I measured the coil's =
current at a low voltage and calculated its resistance. I then used a =
high voltage, thus higher current (and bigger mag field) and calculated =
the resistance at that level.
Well, I soon found out that the thermal resistance variability was going =
to be a major problem. After measuring the high-field resistance I =
rechecked the low end, and found resistance had increased significantly =
there too. It was just too unstable thermally to get any sort of =
meaningful results; the thermal effects far outshadowed any =
magnetoresistance effect. Will have to try again some day using an =
externally-generated field, rather than one from the coil. But that will =
have to wait until I can travel down to visit the lab again.

Dan




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 20:23:14 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:07:26 +1100 (EST)
From: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
To: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>,
        Free Energy Discussion List <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Scalar Detectors
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On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Bob Shannon wrote:
> Have you seen the plans for the Barkhausen Effect Scalar Detector on
> Bill's web site?

	Yep, I did a search a few days ago and found it when looking for
other types of scalar detectors. I blew up my nice 40V/3A dual tracking
current limiting power supply trying to get a transmitter to work when
building my version of it. The strange thing is, I blew up 2 x 5watt 2.7
Ohm resistors that are used in the current limit circuit when powering
up a bifilar coil, not once, but twice.

> Let me know when you want to try some DX work.  No need for QRP, I've
> got a bank of 14 ufd, 40 kv (11,200J) caps with only 11 nanoheneries
> series indutcance.
> 
> If I get really brave, I'll strap more than two together, and run like
> hell!

	OK, once I get the detector working a bit better I'll contact
you and see what we can do.

	Here is a rough idea of the new detector that I had in mind last
letter: An old idea, basically time an electromagnetic disturbance
passing through a wave guide. The only problem is that the clock will
also be effected by the scalar radiation too. so this will only work for
beams or local fields unless you shield the clock, even partially, and
then use it in differential mode, amplifying the difference between the
effect on the clock and the waveguide.

	Hardware: Coaxial interferometer, one leg short (the clock) one
leg really long (the waveguide, sense bit, say the whole reel), use a
pad to compensate for line loss in the long side, and use a phase
shifting network to make signals appear at far end out of phase (or
adjust length if your mad), now mix the signals and detect the result,
this should be a analog of the change in mu or epsilon in the long
piece of coax.

	ASCII Diagram:

	 __       /------{}--\
	|SS|-----Y            Y-----<>
	 --       \______[]__/

	Key:	SS - signal source, RF OSC (Crystal)
		Y  - power splitter/combiner (Wilkinson)
		{} - Reel of coax
		[] - phase/level corrector
		<> - detector

	I presume that it would have a bandwidth of at least 1/4 if not
1/2 the SS freq. I don't think it would be very successful, as laser
versions don't appear to work at all, but it may be worth building and
trying out, it should cost less than $20 if you have a lot of the stuff
already. Just go and buy a 30m reel of coax for TV use, it doesn't have
to be any great quality, you can compensate for all the level and phase
changes. Don't forget to make the short side at least 1 wave length or
so (Perhaps you don't need a short side at all, my original idea was to
use it to measure mass shielding of background radiation, with both
sides equal length)


	Details and results to follow on my web page. Use very high
frequencies for a small sensitive device.

Alan
--
Alan Yates - VK2ZAY			mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Finland Artificial Gravity Invention info required
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Has any member on this newsgroup heard of a Finland invention of Artificial
Gravity  and  please rely any additional information to yours truly.
Apparently the  Sunday telegraph (UK) september 96 carried articles
There seems to have an article in the Australian International UFO Flying
Saucer Research INC.

The scientist seem to have come from the Tampere University of Technology in
Finland


> Geoff Egel
>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 00:16:38 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:04:56 +1200
From: Rex Teague <teague@es.co.nz>
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Geoff et al

The April/May edition of "Nexus" arrived in my s-mail today. In it is an
article written by Martin Gottschall on this topic, which originally
appered in "UFO Encounter" Jan/Feb 1997, published by UFORQ, Box 222,
Brisbane QLD 4002, Australia.

The article would seem to be based on the two sources you have quoted.
It says the Sunday Telegraph article is available on the Internet (no
URL given) and the Australian International UFO... appear to have taken
theirs from "Skywatch" 8 September 1996.

Helpful??  Easter holidays this weekend, I'm off to a folk music
festival, swot it up there. 8-)

Cheers... Rex

> Has any member on this newsgroup heard of a Finland invention of Artificial
> Gravity  and  please rely any additional information to yours truly.
> Apparently the  Sunday telegraph (UK) september 96 carried articles
> There seems to have an article in the Australian International UFO Flying
> Saucer Research INC.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 01:25:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:16:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Thomas Mahanna <tmahanna@ziplink.net>
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Subject: Re: Finland Artificial Gravity Invention info required
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> Has any member on this newsgroup heard of a Finland invention of Artificial
> Gravity  and  please rely any additional information to yours truly.
> Apparently the  Sunday telegraph (UK) september 96 carried articles

I have a copy of the Physica C papers. I can post them on the list if the
group would like or contact me privately. Can you send me (or post) a copy
of the Sunday Telegraph (UK) articles as well?

-Tom


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 01:47:51 1997
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Geoff -

  > Has any member on this newsgroup heard of a 
  > Finland invention of Artificial Gravity  and  
  > please rely any additional information to yours truly.

That story created quite a stir. So far only a couple of people have
claimed to have seen some effect above superconductors under certain
conditions. I was not able to replicate it, and quite a few others have
tried unsuccessfully. There is an experiment underway in Huntsville
Alabama funded by NASA to have a look with an exact replication of the
Tampere setup, but nothing's been released so far. Tampere University is
vigorously washing its hands of the affair, and the Russian scientist
Podkletnov who started this is being very quiet too. He pulled his most
recent paper on it from publication amidst some irregularities. Most
people suspect fraud or mistake at this point, but the hopeful continue
to look for a positive confirmation. Look on Bill Beaty's website for
more info.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 07:43:26 1997
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wesly crosiar wrote:
> 
> At 08:54 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >wesly crosiar wrote:
> >>
> >> Patent# 3913004 Method and Apparatus for Increasing Electrical Power
> >> Claims three times ouptut [wattage] than input.
> >
> >Hi Wesley,
> >does it look like a complicated project to build one of these machines
> >or does it look like it may only take some puttering?
> 
> >Larry: I disassembled a small permanent magnet motor that I used  to pump
> my water in the past. It looks like it would take a day at most to modify an
> existing motor [if you have a small lathe]. Just take off the old windings
> and wind two new windings parallel. Hook one winding to the commutator [as
> shown in the patent], and the other to a set of sliprings [as shown in the
> patent] that you can make from nylon with a piece of copper pipe. mount the
> sliprings on the opposite side of the commutator, the existing commutator
> can be used. The sliprings would need to be turned on a small lathe. If you
> could remove the permanent magnets from the motor housing and epoxy them to
> a piece of PVC you could add the additional length that would be needed for
> installing the sliprings and additional brushes. you should be able to use
> the existing ends and bearing assemblies.
>   The images are not shown in the IBM patent, but are there if you download
> it, I use www.mircopat.com  They are slow but the quality is fantastic.
>   The motor referred to above was used at a continuous speed to run a
> hydraulic or air powered motor, which in turn powered a car.
>   An ideal motor to modify is a pump motor, sold by alternative energy
> engineering. It pumps two gallons a minute, sixty feet of head, using only
> two amps at twerlve volts. This motor is three to four times as efficient as
> most motors.
>   I think it may be of interest to others so I will quote a paragraph from
> the patent.
> 
>  Referring now to this method of increasing electrical power, input
> alteranting current is applied to a primary winding to both motor and
> alternately magnetize a core. The said primary winding is immersed in a
> field and consequently is caused to motor and simultaneously to perform the
> first stage of transforming, A second stage of transforming is then
> performed by a secondary winding associated with said core to function as
> both a transformer and a generator winding, and the output current is drawn
> therfrom at an increased power value as compared with the input power: since
> the current induced by transformer action is superimposed upon the current
> generated in cutting the magnteic lines of force by motoring the secondary
> winding through said field. The direct application af AC power to the
> primary winding is contemplated, however the present and preferred
> embodiment employs commutation of DC power which is thereby inverted to ac
> power in the process of motoring said windings and the core means in which
> they are carried thgether with the secondary winding. The net result is
> THREE FOLD,  in that there is a motoring function, a transforming function
> and a generating function: all of which are inherently synchronized to
> increase the output power with respect the the input power.
> 
> ONE MORE QUOTE
>  Draws fourty eight volts DC at twenty five amps at twelve hundred watts to
> rotate at 1750 RPM  while the secondary windings are comprised of a number
> of turns of conductor to efficiently deliver sixty cycle 110 volts AC at 32
> amps or 3520 Watts; the voltmeter used to read these values upon an actual
> reduction to practice being calibrated to read the root-mean-square [rms]
> value of the pure sine wave, which is 70.7% of the peak voltage.
>   Consequently, there is a multiplying of power applied  through the slip
> rings to the output brushes and this increased output power is measurable as
> described and doubled or almost triple that of the imput power.
> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
> WESLEY CROSIAR
> PO BOX 268
> SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249-----------------------------------------------------------

PATENT SERVER WRONG SPELLING

THE PATENT SERVER REFERENCED IN OBOVE MESSAGE IS WRONG SPELLED.

THE CORRECT ADDRESS IS:

         http://www.micropat.com

		best regards


Felix 
-----------------------------------------------
Felix Meyer, Casilla 271, MAIPU, Stgo 16, CHILE
-----------------------------------------------
mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 16:37:18 1997
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I've made a few tests to find out if indeed any magnetic fields are
present in a bifilar coil as had been suggested by Greg Watson.

Assume we have a well wound bifilar coil, with near zero inductance (no
significant inductance).

This bifilar coil is made of two conductors, A and B, connected in
series opposed.  Net inductance is zero, or very close to zero.

We apply current, and the current reaches I=E/R in near zero time
(inductance being zero, this is conventional).  So we have no energy
"under the curve", and hence, no stored energy to express as a magnetic
field.

Conventional theory would say we have no field in this case. 

Now, while watching the current, we short out conductor B with a
significantly lower resistance, and break the opposed bifilar condition
due to the unequal currents in conductors A and B.

We see current first drop (below I=E/R), then build over time at a rate
proportional to the inductance of conductor A alone.  As this current
builds, we store energy in the now observable magnetic field!  

Note that breaking the equal and opposed condition did not return stored
energy (its being zero to begin with).  Rather, the coil now takes
additional energy to build the field.

It sure looks like the energy used to build that field is only input
only AFTER we broke the equal, opposed bifilar condition, but not BEFORE
the equal and opposed condition was broken.

To address the possible objection that the resistance of the circuit is
lower in after shorting conductor B, we can use a current regulated
supply so that total current is the same after shorting conductor B.

Again, the observable magnetic field follows the rise in current,
limited by the inductance of conductor A.  Only after we input energy
under this rising current curve can we find evidence of a magnetic
field.  This is perfectly conventional.

Without this energy under the curve, there is no magnetic field present.

We are not first creating the flux, and then destroying it.  This never
happens.  We simply never build a magnetic field in the opposed bifilar
case at all, as we have no inductance, and no stored energy to express
as a magnetic field.

So it seems that there is no magnetic field present in an opposed
bifilar coil.  From this point, we might rethink the significance of the
geometery of potentials as being the controling factor in the expression
of magnetic fields and flux, rather than that the fields themselves as
being primary in nature.

In a permenent magnet, the individual domains undergo constructive
interference to produce the macro-pole field, and from that point on,
the internal geometery of the potentials is set such that the flux will
not undergo destructive interference.

This does not prevent the equal-opposed bifilar condition from
structuring these potentials differently, and not being expressed as a
magnetic field. 

So what can be said about the geometery of potentials in the flux around
a single conductor?  What of the geometeries of potentials within the
field of a permanent magnet?

Does anyone here have any familiarity with Maxwell's original
formulations, rather than the Heaviside (sp?) reformulations?

--QAA24471.859508275/mx2.eskimo.com--



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 16:41:59 1997
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: Finland Artificial Gravity Invention info required
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At 08:04 PM 3/27/97 +1200, you wrote:
>Geoff et al
>
>The April/May edition of "Nexus" arrived in my s-mail today. In it is an
>article written by Martin Gottschall on this topic, which originally
>appered in "UFO Encounter" Jan/Feb 1997, published by UFORQ, Box 222,
>Brisbane QLD 4002, Australia.
>
>The article would seem to be based on the two sources you have quoted.
>It says the Sunday Telegraph article is available on the Internet (no
>URL given) and the Australian International UFO... appear to have taken
>theirs from "Skywatch" 8 September 1996.
>
>Helpful??  Easter holidays this weekend, I'm off to a folk music
>festival, swot it up there. 8-)
>
>Cheers... Rex
>
>> Has any member on this newsgroup heard of a Finland invention of Artificial
>> Gravity  and  please rely any additional information to yours truly.
>> Apparently the  Sunday telegraph (UK) september 96 carried articles
>> There seems to have an article in the Australian International UFO Flying
>> Saucer Research INC.
>
>
>Thanks for reply
Geoff

http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 17:03:19 1997
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Subject: Re: Finland Artificial Gravity Invention info required
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At 04:16 AM 3/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>> Has any member on this newsgroup heard of a Finland invention of Artificial
>> Gravity  and  please rely any additional information to yours truly.
>> Apparently the  Sunday telegraph (UK) september 96 carried articles
>
>I have a copy of the Physica C papers. I can post them on the list if the
>group would like or contact me privately. Can you send me (or post) a copy
>of the Sunday Telegraph (UK) articles as well?
>
>-Tom
>
>Could send me a copy of the Phtsica C Papers
>Thanking you in advance
>egel@main.murray.net.au

Geoff

http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 17:19:56 1997
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From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: overunity patent
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At 12:28 PM 3/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>wesly crosiar wrote:
>> 
>> At 08:54 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>> >wesly crosiar wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Patent# 3913004 Method and Apparatus for Increasing Electrical Power
>> >> Claims three times ouptut [wattage] than input.

>Has any  one actually built a successful device built on the Alexandra Patent
and got the 3:1 power increase

Geoff

http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 19:39:19 1997
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From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Magnetic fields in bifilar coils?
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:26:52 GMT
Organization: Improving
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>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>Subject: Magnetic fields in bifilar coils?
>From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
>Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:18:09 +0000
>
>I've made a few tests to find out if indeed any magnetic fields are
>present in a bifilar coil as had been suggested by Greg Watson.
>
>Assume we have a well wound bifilar coil, with near zero inductance (no
>significant inductance).
>
>This bifilar coil is made of two conductors, A and B, connected in
>series opposed.  Net inductance is zero, or very close to zero.
>
>We apply current, and the current reaches I=E/R in near zero time
>(inductance being zero, this is conventional).  So we have no energy
>"under the curve", and hence, no stored energy to express as a magnetic
>field.
>
>Conventional theory would say we have no field in this case. 
>
>Now, while watching the current, we short out conductor B with a
>significantly lower resistance, and break the opposed bifilar condition
>due to the unequal currents in conductors A and B.
>
>We see current first drop (below I=E/R), then build over time at a rate
>proportional to the inductance of conductor A alone.  As this current
>builds, we store energy in the now observable magnetic field!  

This behaviour can also be interpreted as being due to the collapsing field
from the B winding generating a back EMF in the A winding.

>
>Note that breaking the equal and opposed condition did not return stored
>energy (its being zero to begin with).  Rather, the coil now takes
>additional energy to build the field.

This depends on the integral over time of the power supplied to the A coil
by the power supply. Since you have not told us what happens to the voltage
(and more importantly, to the instantaneous product of voltage and
current), it is impossible to determine in which direction the power is
flowing.

>
>It sure looks like the energy used to build that field is only input
>only AFTER we broke the equal, opposed bifilar condition, but not BEFORE
>the equal and opposed condition was broken.
>
>To address the possible objection that the resistance of the circuit is
>lower in after shorting conductor B, we can use a current regulated
>supply so that total current is the same after shorting conductor B.
>
>Again, the observable magnetic field follows the rise in current,

Where does this rise in current come from, if you have a "current regulated
supply" (I presume this means a constant current supply)?
[snip]


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 22:47:03 1997
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From: Thomas Mahanna <tmahanna@ziplink.net>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Finland Artificial Gravity Invention info required
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> >Could send me a copy of the Phtsica C Papers
> >Thanking you in advance
> >egel@main.murray.net.au
> 
> Geoff
> 
> http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

Oh, well. Nevermind... :)


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 13:55:36 1997
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From: mindtech@om.com.au
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:29:37 +1000
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Subject: Re: Scalar Detectors
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>The only problem is that the clock will
>also be effected by the scalar radiation too. so this will only work for
>beams or local fields unless you shield the clock, even partially, and
>then use it in differential mode, amplifying the difference between the
>effect on the clock and the waveguide.
>

Yes, and you can alter the readout (not time itself) by targeting the crystal.

Peter Nielsen




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 16:27:15 1997
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Subject: Re: Scalar Detectors
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On Sat, 29 Mar 1997 mindtech@om.com.au wrote:

> >The only problem is that the clock will
> >also be effected by the scalar radiation too. so this will only work for
> >beams or local fields unless you shield the clock, even partially, and
> >then use it in differential mode, amplifying the difference between the
> >effect on the clock and the waveguide.
> >
> 
> Yes, and you can alter the readout (not time itself) by targeting the crystal.

	Yes, but why is the crystal being effected? Gravitational
redshift? I think I'll try the old idea of beating two crystals against
each other and looking at the beat note. This has a lot of engineering
problems, the two crystals will tend to lock up to the the one frequency
unless you buffer them and filter the power supply very well.

	How about this; water setup in a NMR system. The ions will
precess at the applied frequency (at resonance) but a passing scalar
wave will distort the precession and energy from the exciting coil will
be radiated as Electromagnetic radiation of a different frequency. (Try
getting it sensitive enough to actually see anything) The spin latice
relaxation time will also be effected, more energy will probably be
pulled from the exciting coil too, this may be the simpliest way of
detecting the scalar distortions.

Alan.
--
Alan Yates - VK2ZAY			mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 03:42:11 1997
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The knowledge of what "scalar" means in free energy speak seems to be a
prerequisite to follow many of the threads here but as a recent
subscriber I find I am getting more confused. I thought that 'scalar'
meant having magnitude but not direction, unlike 'vector' which has
both, but find references to "scalar beam" etc. Can someone point me to
the bit of essential reading I've obviously missed. Thanks.

Geoff Greaves

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 14:05:16 1997
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>> Yes, and you can alter the readout (not time itself) by targeting the
crystal.
>>
>Yes, but why is the crystal being affected? 
>

Because you do it at the crystal's resonant frequency. Does everyone know
how to do a scalar beam?

>problems, the two crystals will tend to lock up to the the one frequency
>unless you buffer them and filter the power supply very well.
>

Why not simply use two precision clocks? One as a control.

Peter Nielsen



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 14:28:04 1997
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
> >Subject: Magnetic fields in bifilar coils?
> >From: Bob Shannon <bshannon@tiac.net>
> >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:18:09 +0000

<snip>

> >Now, while watching the current, we short out conductor B with a
> >significantly lower resistance, and break the opposed bifilar condition
> >due to the unequal currents in conductors A and B.
> >
> >We see current first drop (below I=E/R), then build over time at a rate
> >proportional to the inductance of conductor A alone.  As this current
> >builds, we store energy in the now observable magnetic field!
> 
> This behaviour can also be interpreted as being due to the collapsing field
> from the B winding generating a back EMF in the A winding.

To interpret this effect as being due to a collapsing field, we would
have to first have such a field to collapse.  When power was first
applied to the bifilar coil current goes to I=E/R so fast, that no
significant energy is present in this suggested field.  Clearly there is
far less energy in this proposed field than goes into making the
observable field after the equal and opposed condition is violated.

> 
> >
> >Note that breaking the equal and opposed condition did not return stored
> >energy (its being zero to begin with).  Rather, the coil now takes
> >additional energy to build the field.
> 
> This depends on the integral over time of the power supplied to the A coil
> by the power supply. Since you have not told us what happens to the voltage
> (and more importantly, to the instantaneous product of voltage and
> current), it is impossible to determine in which direction the power is
> flowing.

Again, when power is first applied to the bifilar coil, current reaches
maximum in nearly no time at all, as if the circuit was purely
resistive.  Once the B coil is bypassed, the circuit becomes, for the
first time, inductive, building a field as current from the supply flows
into the coil.

> >
> >It sure looks like the energy used to build that field is only input
> >only AFTER we broke the equal, opposed bifilar condition, but not BEFORE
> >the equal and opposed condition was broken.
> >
> >To address the possible objection that the resistance of the circuit is
> >lower in after shorting conductor B, we can use a current regulated
> >supply so that total current is the same after shorting conductor B.
> >
> >Again, the observable magnetic field follows the rise in current,
> 
> Where does this rise in current come from, if you have a "current regulated
> supply" (I presume this means a constant current supply)?
> [snip]

Curret falls below the set point (just above I=E/R), and increases in
direct proportion to the newly created magnetic field.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 14:51:58 1997
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mindtech@om.com.au wrote:
> 
> >The only problem is that the clock will
> >also be effected by the scalar radiation too. so this will only work for
> >beams or local fields unless you shield the clock, even partially, and
> >then use it in differential mode, amplifying the difference between the
> >effect on the clock and the waveguide.
> >
> 
> Yes, and you can alter the readout (not time itself) by targeting the crystal.
> 
> Peter Nielsen

Errr, what exactly is the difference here?  If I were that clock, would
I be effected?

If so, I would argue that I have indeed altered time, just as does
gravity.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 17:30:37 1997
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From: Maxwell <max@triode.net.au>
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I just read the 1920 article put up by Bill Beaty. Does anyone have any
followup information on Hubbards work and his coil? What happened to
Alfred Hubbard later on?  

curious.

-- 
Maxwell.

Bluebottle: "Oooh! Wots that lump on your nut?"
Eccles: "Thats the difference between margarine"
- Spike Milligan -

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 02:52:54 1997
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There is a report in New Scientist 29 March 97 about the sale of "A mass
spectrometer incorporating an electromagnet with wires made from a
high-temperature superconducting material called bismuth ceramic...
superconducting at a relatively warm 100 kelvin..."
I expect it's on http://www.newscientist.com/ though I haven't looked.
The site is being re-vamped and from 3 April will no longer be a (free)
subscription site so easier to wait until then?
The wire under discussion was produced by American Superconductors of
Westborough, Massachusetts "..by packing powdered (bismuth) ceramic into
a silver tube, which is then pulled through a small aperture to stretch
it and make it thinner. Several of the drawn-out tubes of silver
containing the bismuth ceramic are bundled together and drawn again
through the aperture. The process is then repeated. The resulting wire
can be wrapped around a 50-millimetre diameter cylinder without
breaking."
No mention of cost.

One of the UK's tabloid newspapers came up with a heading "Suicide is a
Way of Life for Sects". I'm sure *we* can find a less drastic way of
closely examining Hale-Bopp! Happy Easter everyone.

Geoff Greaves

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 05:30:30 1997
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Wouldn't this twist add an extra degree of complexity?


At 10:51 PM 3/24/97 +1100, you wrote:
Next I attach a DC powered
>drill to the free end and twist the two wires while under tension until
>there is about one twist every 3-5 mm (depends upon the diameter of the
>wire of cause)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 06:02:06 1997
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From: Alan Yates <alany@ay.com.au>
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On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 mindtech@om.com.au wrote:

> >> Yes, and you can alter the readout (not time itself) by targeting the
> >> crystal.
> > Yes, but why is the crystal being affected? 
> >
> 
> Because you do it at the crystal's resonant frequency. Does everyone know
> how to do a scalar beam?

	Sorry, what? Why do you need to do it at the crystal's resonant
frequency. Scalar waves, if they exist, will alter the temporal
properties of the space they pass through , the magnitude of the
frequency will just determine the amount of frequency shift.

> >problems, the two crystals will tend to lock up to the the one frequency
> >unless you buffer them and filter the power supply very well.
> 
> Why not simply use two precision clocks? One as a control.
> 
> Peter Nielsen

	A crystal is a pretty high precision clock in my book, two
similar VHF overtone crystals beat against each other should be fine
for large temporal distortions, but oscillators locking up to each other
when they are close in frequency is a common effect that is difficult to
prevent without special designs.

	The main problem I see in such a detector is localising the
effect to one 'clock'. The differential mode may be less sensitive, but
it is much more practical for far field sources. Perhaps a inteferometry
based system would be even better. Crystal ovens would be a good idea
too.

Alan.

PS:	Does anyone have a idea just how large the effect would be, I
	figure that it would be so small that you would need two clocks
	as stable as a hydrogen maser to observe it.

--
Alan Yates - VK2ZAY			mailto:alany@ay.com.au
3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW			http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/
Sysop AY Communications			+61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165

MD5 Message Digest: 72f3eda29077146fb1e399adbf977aa9

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 20:09:59 1997
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Hi Maxwell and all,

   Here's a little of the later history of Alfred Hubbard. He was sixteen
years old at the time he invented his device. Being an easily swayed
teenager, he sold a 75% share of it to a group in Pittsburgh. Basically his
involvement with it ended there. Later he became involved in a rum-running
venture and was arrested for this along with a local bootlegger in the
Prohibition period here in the states when booze was illegal. He turned
state's evidence and was freed. Later he himself became a successful
detective specializing in ferreting out bootleggers.  Then he became a
bootlegger again and eventually served two years in prison. He was lost in
the mists of history after that.
(By the way, there is no indication of fraud in his Coil activities).
   Although Paul Brown has made a good case for the Hubbard coil as a
resonant circuit fed by a radioactive source, there is a great disparity
between the energy emitted by radium and the apparent power output of the
Hubbard device.
   In about 1982 a group in Stockholm called the Institute for Ecological
Technique  made a working Hubbard coil that did not include radium, based on
the plans in Joseph Cater's book, "Earth Energy".  Here is their description
of the device:
   [The device consists of a single central primary and eight secondaries
around it all wound on iron cores]
   "The center is adjusted for resonance by means of [a] condenser, and the
triggering input energy is fed into the circuit in series with the center
coil and condenser.  The 8 smaller coils are connected in series and
adjusted for the same resonance frequency by means of [another] condenser.
[These give the output]
   The device has been rebuilt in Stockholm by an electronic engineer at the
Institute of Ecological Technique, and he found that the device delivered an
output energy of 3 watts when triggered with an input energy of 1 watt..."
   There appears to be some differences between Cater's drawing and the
device the Swedes built. If anybody else has any more info I would like to
hear it too.
   A short theory break: my guess is that this device is a version of the
parametric transformer idea I've been pushing for a while.  Obviously if the
device used standard transformer induction it couldn't be overunity. If, on
the other hand, the central coil mostly affects the inductance of the
exterior coils rather than transferring energy to them then a current would
flow in them without much power loss in the central coil.
   Here's a simple device that should demonstrate the same principle: in the
center of a ferrite rod is wound a primary. On each side of the primary are
wound secondaries that are in series with each other. THE SECONDARIES ARE
WOUND IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS so the two secondaries have cancelling
magnetic fields, like a spreadout bifilar coil. Both the primary and
secondaries are part of separate tank circuits, with the secondary circuit
also including a load.
   What happens when the primary tank is energized?  The varying magnetic
field intensity in the ferrite changes its permeability, which changes the
inductance of the secondaries AS SEEN FROM THE SECONDARY TANK CIRCUIT. This
changing inductance causes a current to form by parametric excitation, which
powers the load.
On the other hand, AS SEEN FROM THE PRIMARY, the magnetic fields of the
secondaries cancel out and there's no back EMF opposition to the flow of
energy in the primary. The primary sees the situation as a loadless transformer.
  To those who might object that the inductance of the secondary (seen from
the output tank circuit) doesn't change because the two parts have no
self-inductance as a unit, refer to the "prior art" of transductors,
arrangements that control an AC signal with a DC current. In transductors
the AC winding is wound in opposite directions on the outside legs of an E
core so the AC signal's magnetic field cancels and doesn't affect the
control winding. Obviously the control winding does affect the AC winding--
that's what it's supposed to do!
  So basically you have electromagnetic violation of Newton's third law- an
action that doesn't engender a reaction (actually two equal reactions that
cancel out). Who wants to build a Hubbard type coil? Write me if you want
more references or information.
                             Fred
  


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 22:08:51 1997
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Dear Fred;

I have a friend that owns a coil and transformer winding company. I would be
interested in more info. Is earth energies still in print.

THanks, Byrun.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 23:38:22 1997
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 02:27:42 -0500 (EST)
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On 31/03/1997  05:10:19, you wrote :

<< Who wants to build a Hubbard type coil? Write me if you want
 more references or information.
                              Fred >>

Thank you Fred for your informations, I am interesting in building and
testing an Hubbard type coil, have to a basic scheme or some complement of
information to send to me.  :-)

Thanks for your help, as soon as I have some result with this test I share
theses tests results with your.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: Hubbard coil
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Hi Dan, Jean-Louis, and Byrun:

   Send me your snailmail addresses so I can start the process of sending
you the info about the Hubble coil.  If you get it to me this week I'll mail
it next weekend, along with some diagrams of my updated versions.
                              Coiling ever upwards,
                              Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 03:58:29 1997
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From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood)
Subject: Re: Hubbard coil
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>   [The device consists of a single central primary and eight secondaries
>around it all wound on iron cores]
>   "The center is adjusted for resonance by means of [a] condenser, and the
>triggering input energy is fed into the circuit in series with the center
>coil and condenser.  The 8 smaller coils are connected in series and
>adjusted for the same resonance frequency by means of [another] condenser.
>[These give the output]
>   The device has been rebuilt in Stockholm by an electronic engineer at the
>Institute of Ecological Technique, and he found that the device delivered an
>output energy of 3 watts when triggered with an input energy of 1 watt..."

Another information I read about in a book with the title:
"The free energy handbook" (I think). In that the hubbard coil was included.
In that schematic description it was a note that the size of the inner coil
was exactly ((1+sqrt(5))/2) times bigger than the outer coils! Golden Ratio!
exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet!
mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se
http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 07:28:17 1997
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From: wesly crosiar <crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM>
Subject: Re: Hubbard coil
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At 11:59 PM 3/30/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Dan, Jean-Louis, and Byrun:
>
>   Send me your snailmail addresses so I can start the process of sending
>you the info about the Hubble coil.  If you get it to me this week I'll mail
>it next weekend, along with some diagrams of my updated versions.

Fred: I am posting this as a private message to avoid any controversy.
I worked on a Hendershot generator for several years before I discovered it
used radium chloride. John Bedini has one that Ed Skilling made and he
confirmed what I have been telling people for several years. IT DOES USE RADIUM.
  Alfred Hubbard admitted in a newspaper interview that his device used
radium chloride, he also worked for Radium Company Of America. Hubbard and
Hendershot both said their devices worked on the same principle [in a joint
interview].
  I told Bruce Perrault over a year ago how the hendershot device worked. He
got some pitchblend and tried it out. It does work far better than the
radioactive tube that he first tried. He is now telling people how to build
this cell that I told him how to build a couple of years ago. I posted how
the Hubbard coil was built over a year ago, it also used a radium doped
capacitor, under the primary winding. 
  Keep in mind that Hubbard himself said that his device worked from the
radioactive decay of radium chloride.
crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
WESLEY CROSIAR 
PO BOX 268 
SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 08:46:05 1997
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From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox)
Subject: Hubbard coil for Fred
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Fred;

I pick up mail at

5-13 K de K Court
New Westminster, B.C., V3M 6B6

Thanks for plans and info. 


Byrun Fox.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 11:31:31 1997
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Fred Epps wrote:

<snip>

> Here's a simple device that should demonstrate the same principle: in the
> center of a ferrite rod is wound a primary. On each side of the primary are
> wound secondaries that are in series with each other. THE SECONDARIES ARE
> WOUND IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS so the two secondaries have cancelling
> magnetic fields, like a spreadout bifilar coil. Both the primary and
> secondaries are part of separate tank circuits, with the secondary circuit
> also including a load.

Errr, this will cancel flux?  I dont think so.  Flux will distort under
these conditions, but will be concerved.

<snip>

> On the other hand, AS SEEN FROM THE PRIMARY, the magnetic fields of the
> secondaries cancel out and there's no back EMF opposition to the flow of
> energy in the primary. The primary sees the situation as a loadless > transformer.

I fear that the secondaries will still present signficant reactance, and
there will still  be a back EMF present.

>   To those who might object that the inductance of the secondary (seen from
> the output tank circuit) doesn't change because the two parts have no
> self-inductance as a unit, refer to the "prior art" of transductors,
> arrangements that control an AC signal with a DC current. In transductors
> the AC winding is wound in opposite directions on the outside legs of an E
> core so the AC signal's magnetic field cancels and doesn't affect the
> control winding. Obviously the control winding does affect the AC winding--
> that's what it's supposed to do!

Is a 'transductor' the same thing as a magnetic amplifier?  Mag amps
have opposed windings, but on different cores.  Flux is conserved, and
they are reactive I beleive.

>   So basically you have electromagnetic violation of Newton's third law- an
> action that doesn't engender a reaction (actually two equal reactions that
> cancel out). Who wants to build a Hubbard type coil? Write me if you want
> more references or information.
>                              Fred

I think we should look a bit closer at this flux cancellation process
Fred.  I do not think you can cancel the flux of whole coils in this
manner, any more than can be done with permanent magnets.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 11:50:08 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: time research, & anthologies
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Hi Everybody!
    I'm trying to develop a bibliography of papers on time, especially
proposals or experiments for the modification of time flow. I'm also looking
for alternative papers on inertia, centrifugal or coriolis force, or any
spin related phenomena. If you know of anything let me know. I will be happy
to pay for postage and copying to get copies from you.
   I'm a bookstore owner, and I'm thinking about putting out a series of
anthologies on different alternative science subjects.  There would be one
on Time, one on Gravity, etc.  They would be focussed on experimental
results, with just enough theory to point the way further. There seems to be
huge amount of physics research going on that gets no permanent record. What
do you think of this idea? Would you buy a fat 400 page book with details of
classic experiments in antigravity, etc.?  Webmaster, excuse me if this
sounds like market reseach, it is...
   David Hatcher Childress sort of did this with the Free Energy Handbook,
but his focus was that of a nonscientist. The book shows no attention to
detail, you couldn't build anything from it. The kind of thing I'm thinking
of is along the lines of Bob Shannon's classic paper on Scalar Wave
detectors, or the Charles Brush gravity experiments.
                                In Time,
                                Fred 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 12:35:20 1997
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From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps)
Subject: piezoelectric "Tolman" effect
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Hi folks,
   While reading Robert Stirnman's superb gravity file 
http://www.padrak.com/ine/RS_REF14.html 

I came across something that reminded me of our discussion of the
electron-centrifugal effects, like the Tolman and Searl effects. On page 5
of part 14, Stirnman says:

" ...it is well known that if you accelerate a dielectric material, or in
"equivalence" subject a dielectric material to a gravitational field or
other mechanical force-- an electric field due to dipole moment
(polarization P) will be generated within the material. This effect is
especially prevalent in structured crystal dielectrics (piezoelectric
materials) which are used as transducers in accelerometer sensors..."

   Stirnman is hinting with the use of the word "equivalence" that
rotational forces can be substituted for gravitation. A rapidly spinning
disc of a piezoelectric material like barium titanate should develop through
axial stress quite a large piezoelectric charge. I suspect that the pure
inertial Tolman effect might reinforce this charging process.
   (I had actually thought of something like this before, but I dropped it
because I thought there had to be a second-order acceleration, like the
Tolman effect, which would be tricky to do.)  
   Since the charge is created continuously by the steady acceleration of
rotating motion, it represents a current which can be tapped. Any current
that can be derived from a rotating disc without decelerating the disc is
free energy. Stirnman's comment opens up the possibility of tapping
centrifugal force for power, something I've always felt was possible.
   The questions I haven't answered are 
   1)  The magnitude of the effect
   2)  What materials would work best (can't be brittle)
   3)  the orientation of the charge on the disc
   3)  How to tap the current
  Anybody up for experiments with spinning piezoelectric discs?
                       Fred
 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 18:18:33 1997
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From: edward.rupp@omn.com (Edward Rupp)
Subject: get of list
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I have tryed several times to get of this list serv. I have used the
address listproc@eskimo.com, but keep geating a error message back.
Help! I havent enufe time to keep up with all my e-mail and this list
serv.

Thanks

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 19:41:05 1997
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Subject: Re: Re: Hubbard Coil
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   Hi Bob and All!

   Thanks for the comments about my parametric transformer idea, described
in the Hubbard Coil post. Bob Shannon has made some good criticisms:

Errr, this will cancel flux?  I dont think so.  Flux will distort under
these conditions, but will be conserved.

   My mistake was in saying flux was cancelled. Flux isn't cancelled, just
any possible back EMF from the secondary. The secondary wire has EMFs
induced in it that are going in opposite directions. The total EMF induced
in the secondary is zero. There is no EM induction in this machine. The flux
isn't cancelled, nor does it need to be.
   It isn't even necessary to use opposing coils to make this gadget if the
secondary is wound on a torus and the primary is on a cylindrical ferrite
wedged into the hole. If the magnetic contact is good the same thing should
happen: a current builds up from periodic alteration of the inductance of
the torus. You could use a "T" shaped coil for the same thing. The point is
that the two magnetic fields are orthogonal, so (ideally) there is no
inductive interaction.

Is a 'transductor' the same thing as a magnetic amplifier?  Mag amps
have opposed windings, but on different cores.  Flux is conserved, and
they are reactive I beleive.

   A transductor is a high-freq mag amp, yes...the description I have here
shows a square high-freq core wedged in the air gap of a much larger U-core.
The description says:

"The h.f core is situated between the poles of a magnetic yoke...A control
winding on the yoke applies a field to the h.f. core.  The associated flux
divides equally between the two sides of the core. The signal winding, the
inductance of which it it proposed to control, is wound on the h.f core in
two series-aiding halves, one on each side. This arrangement is used to
avoid magnetic coupling between the h.f. winding and the windings on the
yoke; the flux linkages between the yoke and the two halves of the h.f.
winding ideally cancel.  A high degree of isolation is essential because
otherwise the impedance associated with the control winding would be
reflected into the h.f circuit giving rise to additional losses and
self-capacitance." 

   Basically the technical problems of inductively isolating the primary and
secondary while still energizing the secondary through a parametric process
have been solved by those already working with parametric transformers. I'll
get references later if anybody wants, but the most important one is the
Wanless patent #. These transformers are known to operate without EM
induction and were in production until recently.

<they are reactive I believe>

   In a parametric circuit, what energy transfer goes from the secondary to
the primary to react against it? There's no back EMF, so whatever currents
that develop in the secondary under parametric excitation do not affect the
primary's AC magnetic field.
  
   On the other hand, to argue against my own idea, if these units were in
production surely someone would have noticed that the secondary was not
loading the primary?
I've never seen any mention of unusual effects.  Maybe there aren't any... 
 On the OTHER other hand, maybe people don't see what they don't expect to
see. What a novel idea.
   It doesn't matter--the proof is in the pudding. The experiment is
relatively simple to do, somebody will probably do it.
                                Fred

REFERENCES
will get refs for those who want them-- have to run...

 

 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 19:48:01 1997
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Hi Hubbleites,
   
   There seems to be some confusion about whether the Hubbard Coil contained
radium. I have absolutely no doubt that it contained radium as an active
component. The question is, where is the energy coming from?  If it's coming
from radium, then there's a lot more energy coming from a piece of radium
than I would have imagined. Are there any nuclear physicists in the house
who can tell us what the total energy output of Radium is over the entire
spectrum of emissions?
   We have to at least consider the possibility that two different
mechanisms may be involved. The Coler device is a prototypical solid-state
free energy device that worked with nothing except EM energy interactions.
The Newman machines are another example. If one accepts that these are
working devices, which I do, then it seems that it is possible to create a
completely electromagnetic solid-state overunity machine.
   This is what I would like to do. I don't really want a nuclear battery in
my house, no matter how safe it is, sorry.
                             Fred 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 20:04:59 1997
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Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 14:39:05 -0800
From: Maxwell <max@triode.net.au>
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi Dan, Jean-Louis, and Byrun:
> 
>Send me your snailmail addresses so I can start the process of sending
>you the info about the Hubble coil.  If you get it to me this week I'll mail
> it next weekend, along with some diagrams of my updated versions.

Hi Fred and Jean-Louis,

I didnt know you had info on Hubbard. I am about to write to REX Reseach
asking for his document on Hubbard (H9-HUB). He sells it for $8 + 30%
(OS) What info do you have Fred? Is it the same or is it a different
source?

Joseph Cater rings a bell. Yes! I found it! There is an article in
'tuning In' an Australian FE magazine which has drawings similar to
hubbard but it doesnt look the same as a hubard coil. It looks more like
a cross between a Hubbard coil, a Coller coil, and an orgone box. I'm
betting its disinfo like so much of this readily available public domain
information that circulates the traps.


-- 
Maxwell.

Bluebottle: "Oooh! Wots that lump on your nut?"
Eccles: "Thats the difference between margarine"
- Spike Milligan -

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 20:50:30 1997
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hubbard coil
References: <199703311516.HAA17774@claim.goldrush.com>
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wesly crosiar wrote:
> 
> At 11:59 PM 3/30/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >Hi Dan, Jean-Louis, and Byrun:
> >
> >   Send me your snailmail addresses so I can start the process of sending
> >you the info about the Hubble coil.  If you get it to me this week I'll mail
> >it next weekend, along with some diagrams of my updated versions.
> 
> Fred: I am posting this as a private message to avoid any controversy.
> I worked on a Hendershot generator for several years before I discovered it
> used radium chloride. John Bedini has one that Ed Skilling made and he
> confirmed what I have been telling people for several years. IT DOES USE RADIUM.
>   Alfred Hubbard admitted in a newspaper interview that his device used
> radium chloride, he also worked for Radium Company Of America. Hubbard and
> Hendershot both said their devices worked on the same principle [in a joint
> interview].
>   I told Bruce Perrault over a year ago how the hendershot device worked. He
> got some pitchblend and tried it out. It does work far better than the
> radioactive tube that he first tried. He is now telling people how to build
> this cell that I told him how to build a couple of years ago. I posted how
> the Hubbard coil was built over a year ago, it also used a radium doped
> capacitor, under the primary winding.
>   Keep in mind that Hubbard himself said that his device worked from the
> radioactive decay of radium chloride.
> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM                       THANKS WES
> WESLEY CROSIAR
> PO BOX 268
> SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249
Pleasre add me to the list of recipients.
This radium efect sounds like a self charging battery.
Joe Skues

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 21:40:10 1997
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From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall)
Subject: Re: Hubbard Coil
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Fred wrote: 
>
>   Hi Bob and All!

snip

> On the OTHER other hand, maybe people don't see what they don't 
>expect to see. What a novel idea.
>   It doesn't matter--the proof is in the pudding. The experiment is
>relatively simple to do, somebody will probably do it.
>                                Fred

And, as Applewhite said, "Just eat the pudding."

Yeah, I know really sick.

RWW

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 23:33:30 1997
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:31:12 +1000
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Geoff Egel <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: J Newman claims
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I have just looked as some Newman sites and he claims especially the one he
made lately   about running some of pump with a battery setup as reported on
one American 
TV network
Do anyone have a first hand experience of the said device apart from the
promoters.
Could some one please enlighten me 
>Here in Ozzie this information is slow to filter
through.

Geoff 

http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel
>