From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 00:54:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA05386; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 00:45:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 00:45:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 00:45:21 -0800 Message-Id: <9704010845.AA23214@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: WARNING! Unbridled Speculation Ahead Resent-Message-ID: <"DIGKn.0.4K1.YiCGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi folks: I've been thinking about time and my wife doesn't want to hear about it, so here it is: (WARNING:UNBRIDLED SPECULATION FOLLOWS) The wheel of Orphyeus was a perpetual motion machine that was certified by Isaac Newton to work and was run continuously inside a vault by the king of England for six months. A scientist who examined it said the mechanism was so simple a village craftsman could build it. The plasma generator of the Correas is an overunity device based on subtle considerations of ion mass, certainly an intricate technology. Yet I believe both are overunity devices. Whatever "thing" that changes in a system to make it "overunity" must be so basic and in front of us that we can't see it. First-order effects are too blatant to have gone undetected for so long. But what if the change is in something that is conceived to be invariable, the measuring stick that never changes by which all other quantities are measured out? Who measures subtle differences of time flow when they do an experiment? I think that inertia = time, and thus gravity = time. Everything would happen at once if it weren't for inertia. The level of inertia in a system, whether electrical or mechanical, determines the time flow in that system. We don't see these time flows because normally they are unchanging in rate relative to us. Normally systems don't change their mechanical or electrical inertia while in progress, so their timing pulses are in one to one correspondence with ours even if their time has a different "velocity". This "velocity" is a first-order effect typified by the observation that some systems have a faster rate of change than others, as compared to a reference standard. But when a system changes its "inertia" like in parametric excitation we see a change in the velocity of time within the system, a second-order effect. This shows up as a change in total work output over time, since Work= power x time. Since our time has not changed WE see this increased work as increased energy flow. Is it possible that second-order changes in inertia (capacitance, inductance, mechanical inertia) cause changes in the time flow that allow for the appearance of increase in energy in a system, even though energy has not been added? I'll be posting some suggestions for instruments to test for these effects. A common example of parametric excitation is a spring whose "stiffness" is varied twice in each vibration. This corresponds to changing the capacitance of an LRC circuit. The interesting thing is that the stiffness of a REAL spring is a highly nonlinear affair that could well be mightily affected by a small outside force, like a critical change of temperature. A large change in final value with a small change in initial conditions is an amplifying effect. Similar nonlinear conditions exist in a semiconductor such as varactor diode, where small changes in voltage cause large changes in capacitance. Assume for a moment that these apparently simple systems are overunity. Assume also that the conservation laws are in effect (I know this is hard for some of you). The paradox can be resolved if we also assume that there is no one-to-one correspondence between the "moments" (time quanta) of the overunity and reference systems during changes in the inertia of the system. I apologize if any of the above is actually true, instead of unbridled speculation. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 01:33:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA28985; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 01:12:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 01:12:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3340C179.76D3@dove.net.au> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 00:04:10 -0800 From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" Reply-To: gsawyer@dove.net.au Organization: Outback Communications - Lighting, Theatre Concerts and Special Events. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar detectors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BWh3M3.0.p47.p5DGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Umm .. the problem with Crystal oscillators locking together - and / or measuring changes is indeed an interesting one. Do we really want to measure a large or a small change ? do we really need to know the frequency ? How about this as a proposal, why not use phase detection methods ? i.e a phase locked loop system - in which we can see the effects of phase ( read Frequency ) changes as a measurable quantity - these being in the form of the relative correction voltage + or - that is required to pull the oscillator back to "center" frequency ? Just my $0.02 worth of input (Flame-proof suit and cloaking device now activated) :-) Glenville. -- Rgds, Glenville T. Sawyer ( Glen ) gsawyer@dove.net.au http://dove.net.au/~gsawyer - visit and sign the guestbook Making a "CONCERTed EFFort" Outback Communications Lighting, Concerts, Special Events & Extra Special Effects From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 03:45:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA02524; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 03:44:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 03:44:09 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 03:44:18 -0800 Message-Id: <9704011144.AA22663@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: scalar detectors and time Resent-Message-ID: <"aPdF91.0.Jd.8KFGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've been interested in the posts about measuring the differences between two closely synchronized clocks of one sort or the other. It seems to me that whether you couch your theories in terms of scalar or inertial (time) waves matters little: an accurate detector of small differences in the periods of oscillators would be a great boon. I'm sure if we pool our ideas we can come up with a scheme to do this, and maybe one of the Great Builders among us will try it out. What I would do first in a purely electrical way is 1) Use optocouplers to disengage one system from another. If both the test probe and the time reference contains a crystal oscillator, put optocouplers into both probe and reference and feed the output to Glenville T. Sawyer's PLL circuit. 2) Radically decouple the systems by using different types of oscillators for the probe and reference. An example would be matching a piezo resonator probe with the broadcast cesium clock signal, or an electronic oscillator of some sort. My theories indicate that the larger observable effects will be with masses in rotation or vibration, so pairing one of these types with a purely electronic reference would be a good combination. 3) Or use a sort of "counting" scheme, where both the probe and reference oscillators have digital counters attached to them (like digital clocks). The reference oscillator counts to a certain number of pulses, then compares that count to the count of the test probe. Counts could be done at high frequency with a long sampling period to eliminate data noise effects. By doing counts at really long sampling periods, weak effects would be brought to light. Philosophically I would consider the need for a deeper study of entrainment. Is there such a thing as Super-entrainment, where systems still seem to entrain even though they should be isolated? I suspect that people see these phenomena, given the possibility of inertial or scalar "actions at a distance". Perhaps this is one of those cases where the thing the researchers are trying to eliminate is the thing they're looking for. 4) You could test the phenomena in a different way by having electrically and physically isolated oscillators triggered at the same instant by a single pulse. Measure the phase difference between the two signals. Do they entrain, despite sheilding? Now change the inertial properties (capacitance or inductance) of one oscillator, changing its frequency. Is there a frequency or phase change in the second oscillator? You could have a lot of fun putting a test probe like this into different environments, like pyramids, which I suspect have a very different time flow than other places. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 08:07:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA03379; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:41:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:41:41 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:43:37 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman Resent-Message-ID: <"Ipbd_2.0.jq.qoIGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I have just looked as some Newman sites and he claims especially the one he >made lately about running some of pump with a battery setup as reported on >one American TV network. >Do anyone have a first hand experience of the said device apart from the >promoters. >Could some one please enlighten me >>Here in Ozzie this information is slow to filter >through. > >Geoff > >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >> Dear Geoff, The test to which I believe you are referring (which was broadcast as part of a 5-Part Report/Documentary) was conducted by two engineers from the CBS-affiliate station in New Orleans. Ralph Hartwell, chief engineer for the station, lives in New Orleans and may be reached at: ralph.hartwell@emachine.com Over the years, hundreds of hours of testing have been conducted on a number of different-sized prototypes. Dr. Roger Hastings conducted extensive testing on a variety of Newman Motor/Generators. The following is a synopsis from testing he conducted on the 900 and 5,000-lb EM prototypes: _____________________________________________ DECLARATION FOLLOWING EXTENSIVE TESTING OF 5,000 LB AND 900 LB UNITS This letter represents a disclosure of investigations and experimentation which I have performed on Joseph Newman's energy generating machine. The fact is that every experiment which I have performed shows that the energy output of the device is indeed larger than the energy input. Some examples are: 1) The electrical energy output is measured at more than four times the electrical energy input. [Note: This _does not_ violate the Law of Conservation of Matter/Energy if one considers the source of the additional output to be the conductor coil in accordance with E = mc^2.] 2) Acting as a motor, Joseph Newman's device performed mechanical work in excess of ten times the electrical energy input. 3) Joseph Newman's device delivers over ten times the torque of a commercial D.C. permanent magnet motor rated at 80% efficiency. However, during this test Joseph Newman's device is consuming only a fraction of the input power of the commercial motor. 4) These results must be taken seriously. Joseph Newman has made the observation that huge magnetic fields may be generated with minimal power input in a large coil wound with large diameter wire. This coil creates a very large torque on a suitably large permanent magnet. In operation, the batteries powering the coil consume little power and discharge at a very slow rate. Yet the motor delivers considerable mechanical and/or electrically generated power. It is fascinating to observe that Joseph Newman has arrived at this invention on the basis of his theoretical work, coupled with many years of experimentation on electromagnetic energy. He has been rigorously consistent in the development of a model of matter and energy, and furthermore has fortified his model with experimentation. His model is based on the assumption that matter is concentrated electromagnetic energy. He predicts that this energy (E=MC^2) may be released in a controlled way, and his experiments verify the prediction. The future of the human race may be dramatically uplifted by the large scale commercial development of this invention. It is indeed painful to see it lying dormant. Dr. Roger Hastings, Ph.D. Principal Physicist, Unisys Corporation Former Associate Professor of Physics North Dakota State University ------------------------------------------------------ [Note: Since the testing performed on the above Newman Motor/Generators, numerous improvements/innovations have been made to subsequent Newman Motor/Generator designs.] Posted by: Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 08:32:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA13442; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:20:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:20:13 -0800 (PST) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 11:19:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970401111856_2013663950@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Subject: Re : WARNING! Unbridled Speculation Ahead Resent-Message-ID: <"PdbJg3.0.tH3.wMJGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 01/04/1997 09:52:21, you wrote : << But when a system changes its "inertia" like in parametric excitation we see a change in the velocity of time within the system, a second-order effect. This shows up as a change in total work output over time, since Work= power x time. Since our time has not changed WE see this increased work as increased energy flow. Is it possible that second-order changes in inertia (capacitance, inductance, mechanical inertia) cause changes in the time flow that allow for the appearance of increase in energy in a system, even though energy has not been added? >> Hi Fred and All, Concerning time compression, have you seen my Magnetic Compression Energy Pump (MCEP) project at : http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/mcep.htm I look forward to receive your suggestion and comments about this project. Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 15:25:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA26883; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:08:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:08:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:07:56 -0800 Message-Id: <9704012307.AA19004@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: Nagnetic Compression Pump Resent-Message-ID: <"AQEmy2.0.zZ6.GLPGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis and others, Jean-Louis, I'm looking at your webpage for the magnetic compression pump and it looks like your circuit is a parametric process like the ones I've been talking about. Or am I just seeing them everywhere right now? You're rapidly changing the inductance, and this increases the energy in the system. As far as I can see, changing the resistance doesn't contribute to the energy gain in the circuit, just changes the voltage to current if that's more convenient for your load. Nice touch, though, makes it easier to use the energy. And what purpose does the Magnetic Energy Collector serve? The energy gain is the same whether it's there or not, since the energy comes only from the CHANGING inductance value. In fact, since a higher depth of modulation m, m= dL/2L L is the original inductance of the circuit dL is the change in inductance, is one of the main criteria for increasing parametric oscillations, it follows that your inductance CHANGE should be large relative to the total inductance. If you reduce the total fixed inductance of the circuit you lose energy-storage capability but you increase depth of modulation. There's going to a point where these factors match, so I would recommend that you try using different values of fixed inductor in your simulations. You don't give a value for the inductance of the Magnetic Energy Collector so it's hard to tell how it affects the circuit. Also, this what I would classify as a parametric one-shot. Since there is no capacitive energy storage, the circuit is not oscillatory but must be triggered with a switch. I thought of one like this but with a changing capacitance instead of inductance. In my idea, voltage was fed into a varactor, then the varactor's capacitance was changed with another reverse-biased DC voltage, which multiplied the original voltage 20 times, then the extra voltage was taken off at the load. A repetitive, switched process, somewhat similar to your device. Doing a one-shot has advantages in that you only have to deal with one reactive component instead of two. The real question is the energy cost to you for changing the inductance. I see you are switching the inductance in and out of the circuit in ver. 2.2. This is very interesting to me because I recently had a discussion with Maxwell about the difference between varying a reactance and shunting it. I came to agree that at least IN THEORY no energy could be gained by a circuit through shunting capacitance because of charge conservation: in order for a parametric effect to happen the switching is done at the peak negative and positve voltages. At that point the fixed capacitor is charged, and shunting in the other cap merely spreads the charge between the two caps. Then I discovered a paper by Barrow from the 1930's where he generated a current in a parametric circuit by shunting a capacitor in and out of parallel with a fixed capacitor. He got considerable energy output, maybe not overunity. This circuit was criticized by Mandleshtam and Papaleksi, who basically said that since theoretically no work was needed to switch a circuit, the current gains Barrow was seeing were due to his experimental situation (artifacts), and were not from the switched capacitor. So the question remains open whether switching a reactance rather than varying it can cause energy gain in a parametric circuit. That doesn't negate the premise of your invention. ANY WAY YOU CAN VARY THE INDUCTANCE WIDELY WITH LOW ENERGY COSTS WILL BRING YOU OVERUNITY. If you let me screw around with your circuit, this is what I would try: 1) Isolate the elements being switched. Try switching just a resistance in and out (in reality, not a simulation). Yes, we know what it's supposed to do, but does it really do that? Then try switching just the inductor without the resistance. This is the crucial step. Is there an energy gain in the circuit when all factors are eliminated except for the switching inductor? 2) Use a varying inductor instead of a switched one. This could be done with a saturable reactor or a parametric transformer like I've described in recent posts. 3) add a fixed capacitor and run it as an oscillator. 4) add a variable or shunted capacitor and change the capacitance at the same time as the inductance, doubling the energy gain of the circuit. You could run this as a doubly-excited parametric oscillator. 5) Use a very small fixed inductor rather than the magnetic energy collector and run the circuit at a higher switching frequency. Keep me posted on the progress of this project. Have you made any working models yet? I'm glad you brought it to my attention, it is very interesting and has stimulated my thinking. Fred (refs available on request) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 16:39:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA23358; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:27:30 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:27:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 2 Apr 97 12:30 NZST X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: RE: WARNING! Unbridled Speculation Ahead X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"f7PgN1.0.ui5.lVQGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Jean-Louis, et al, Some very interesting ideas there Fred. But doesn't all this rely on the assumption that there is some kind of dimensional reality about this thing we call "time", and therefore we have assigned to it a characteristic called time "flow". I'm not really too sure about the truth of all that! In fact I'd ALMOST come to the conclusion, that "time" was only a clever illusion of "matter", and as such, is not necessarily characteristic of the "energy" FROM which matter originates. Alexander Frolov has some very interesting and valid thoughts regarding all this, including the equivalence of "time" and "energy" - i.e. the action of that "energy" in the phenomenal world. So how about defining for me simply, just what this thing called "TIME" really is. It has to be the most important key in any understanding of "overunity" systems. Jean-Louis, I've had a good look at the diagrams etc., of your Magnetic Compression Energy Pump. It looks interesting, but I can't quite figure out how it all works! Some of the elements, and the circuit diagram, don't quite conform to my own old fashioned expectations of diagrammatic convention. Can you give us a little further explanation on just how the MCEP circuit actually operates? It does involve parametric inductance somehow doesn't it? By the way, what happens to the "energy" dissipated in a series resister when you charge a capacitor in equal increments of voltage N over time?.......Computer simulations (and experiments) confirm that IT GOES DOWN ! That is, it's inversely proportional to the number of increments, and becomes .5CV^2/N. The source "delivers"(?) .5CV^2(1+1/N), BUT the "energy" stored in the capacitor is still .5CV^2. OK, so is there some kind of "unobserved" time/energy relationship going on here - or is it "time" versus "potential"/"energy"? What happens when N tends to infinity?....... The dissipated energy TENDS TO ZERO. Is it possible to do a similar (inverse) thing with the energy required to produce the magnetic field(.5LI^2), of an inductor ?? Regards, Stuart Rae =============================================================================== 7B Mountain View Road, Blenheim, New Zealand. Ph: +64 3 578 9160 Email: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz =============================================================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 18:06:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA10565; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:47:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:47:00 -0800 Message-ID: <3341D6C4.2A18@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 19:47:16 -0800 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WARNING! Unbridled Speculation Ahead References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UM8Gp.0._a2.JgRGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! With regard to Jean Naudins Magnetic Compression Pump that might effect the flow of 'time'....Dr. Alex Frolov says there is a fellow in Russia by the name of Chernobrov, who claims to have built a device that can alter time by a second or so... It uses a series of concentric 'shells', each of which consist of a coil of wire. A target in the center of the arrangment is hit with a series of swept high intensity waves, I suspect getting stronger as they move towards the inside, to form a gradient of low density magnetic flux to high density...the speed of this swept magnetic signal can be adjusted to optimize the effect. Since gravity directly affects clocking mechanisms, from pendulums to tuning forks to crystals, then they are an unreliable test for alteration of 'time flows', perhaps biological systems such as yeast, mitosis of cells or drosophila reproduction rates might be a more reliable indicator though everything is changed to gravity. Keely said 'time is gravity', a simple statement with profound meaning. Time being the flow of aether into a sustained standing wave complex to produce an aggregation of matter that progressively moves from birth to maturity, then on to death and dissolution. All are clocked by the flow of 'gravity' (more precisely aether/zpe/spacetime metric influxes into mass neutral centers). So, you alter gravity, you alter the rate of time flow. This would allow you to slow it down or speed it up, but I have problems with the idea of PHYSICALLY going forward or backward in time....I think it can be done mentally to some degree, but not physically. The reports I've seen of disappearance and time travel experiments are more likely dimensional shifts or mental hallucinations (when using the transducer to the head method to scramble the brain)...:) -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 21:24:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA17055; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:01:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:01:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199704020458.XAA27573@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 23:58:22 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QCogo2.0.JA4.DWUGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've been seeing some interesting claims on Usenet for a device called the Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna. This thing essentially seems to be a caduceus coil wound on a toroid instead of a straight form. It's claimed that it radiates omnidirectionally, with gain, and is almost immune to interference from nearby objects. I've also seen it claimed separately that a geosynchronous satellite can be received on a 3-inch antenna of this design! The patent is #5442369, to West Virginia University. I'm not an antenna expert. Could someone look at it and figure out whether it behaves as claimed? "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 22:09:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA10150; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:03:00 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:03:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:02:33 -0800 Message-Id: <9704020602.AA22328@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: WARNING: more speculation Resent-Message-ID: <"98crD.0.SU2.FQVGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Stuart and others, About time.. actually I agree with you. My sense is that time IS a clever illusion of matter. My provisional definition of time is: Time is the resistance of matter to energy, or inertia. If matter presents no resistance to the flow of energy, then energy propagates instantaneously. Mechanically, this resistance takes the form of inertia and inertial forces, electrically, it takes the form of reactance. These are really different levels of the same phenomena. I will define U as the total physical inertia of a system composed of all electromagnetic and mechanical inertias summed together in the same unit. These inertias can contain static or moving (often rotating) mass, electric or magnetic fields, and mechanical or electrical spin systems. T is the "time" of the system. According to my definition T is inversely proportional to U. It is reasonable to assume that the higher the U of a system, the slower the "time constant" or flow of time of the system relative to any chosen reference constant (clock). We observe that the system is slow by our clock. All of this is really just known physics presented in a different way. What follows is speculative. I suspect that we don't see anything strange about the other order of time we are observing because there is a one-to-one correspondence between the 'moments' or time pulses in one system and the other, in terms of infinite sets. I'm truly way out of my depth here, and anyone with a mathematical inclination can have a look at a paper I have called "On The Properties Of Materials and the Concepts of Time and Space" by Vidim Komkov and Kirk Valanis. This leads to the possibilty that systems where the time between pulses is changing might not be in one-to-one correspondence with the unchanged infinite reference set, and unusual effects might be observed. I'm guessing that electrical or mechanical systems where the total U is changing would show these effects. These effects might manifest as the work done in the system. If U is made inversely proportional to T then the work equation becomes W = P/U (no jokes please) This implies that when power is introduced into a system with decreasing inertia the work done by the system increases. This work can be transferred to the reference frame and used. Actually, this is the principle of parametric amplification. As seen from the reference frame, power and work calculations will not appear accurate, sometimes appearing overunity, while within the "changing-inertia" frame the same calculations will obey the law of conservation of matter and energy, as measured by a clock in that frame. Remember, speculation means never having to say you're wrong... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 22:46:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA04076; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:34:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:34:28 -0800 Message-ID: <33418F9B.42AF@ipgeek.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 22:43:39 +0000 From: Albert Yang Reply-To: lithium@ipgeek.com Organization: Oriental Guild Resources X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b2 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy Subject: Altering time question X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"S8pex1.0.b_.ptVGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't remember, but I read somewhere that if there were two people with their watches in sync, and then one sat in a plane and flew for 100,000 hours, when he lands, his watch would be 1 second slower than the person on the ground. Is that true? Thanks, Albert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 1 23:23:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA18056; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 23:17:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 23:17:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:22:52 +1000 Message-Id: <199704020822.SAA26695@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman Resent-Message-ID: <"wOmRB1.0.0Q4.sVWGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the Steer Geoff At 10:43 AM 4/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >>I have just looked as some Newman sites and he claims especially the one he >>made lately about running some of pump with a battery setup as reported on >>one American TV network. >>Do anyone have a first hand experience of the said device apart from the >>promoters. >>Could some one please enlighten me >>>Here in Ozzie this information is slow to filter >>through. >> >>Geoff >> >>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >>> > >Dear Geoff, > >The test to which I believe you are referring (which was broadcast as part >of a 5-Part Report/Documentary) was conducted by two engineers from the >CBS-affiliate station in New Orleans. Ralph Hartwell, chief engineer for >the station, lives in New Orleans and may be reached at: >ralph.hartwell@emachine.com > >Over the years, hundreds of hours of testing have been conducted on a >number of different-sized prototypes. Dr. Roger Hastings conducted >extensive testing on a variety of Newman Motor/Generators. The following >is a synopsis from testing he conducted on the 900 and 5,000-lb EM >prototypes: > >_____________________________________________ > >DECLARATION FOLLOWING EXTENSIVE TESTING OF 5,000 LB AND 900 LB UNITS > >This letter represents a disclosure of investigations and experimentation >which I have performed on Joseph Newman's energy generating machine. The >fact is that every experiment which I have performed shows that the energy >output of the device is indeed larger than the energy input. Some examples >are: > >1) The electrical energy output is measured at more than four times the >electrical energy input. [Note: This _does not_ violate the Law of >Conservation of Matter/Energy if one considers the source of the additional >output to be the conductor coil in accordance with E = mc^2.] > >2) Acting as a motor, Joseph Newman's device performed mechanical work in >excess of ten times the electrical energy input. > >3) Joseph Newman's device delivers over ten times the torque of a >commercial D.C. permanent magnet motor rated at 80% efficiency. However, >during this test Joseph Newman's device is consuming only a fraction of the >input power of the commercial motor. > >4) These results must be taken seriously. Joseph Newman has made the >observation that huge magnetic fields may be generated with minimal power >input in a large coil wound with large diameter wire. This coil creates a >very large torque on a suitably large permanent magnet. In operation, the >batteries powering the coil consume little power and discharge at a very >slow rate. Yet the motor delivers considerable mechanical and/or >electrically generated power. > >It is fascinating to observe that Joseph Newman has arrived at this >invention on the basis of his theoretical work, coupled with many years of >experimentation on electromagnetic energy. He has been rigorously >consistent in the development of a model of matter and energy, and >furthermore has fortified his model with experimentation. His model is >based on the assumption that matter is concentrated electromagnetic energy. >He predicts that this energy (E=MC^2) may be released in a controlled way, >and his experiments verify the prediction. > >The future of the human race may be dramatically uplifted by the large >scale commercial development of this invention. It is indeed painful to >see it lying dormant. > >Dr. Roger Hastings, Ph.D. >Principal Physicist, Unisys Corporation >Former Associate Professor of Physics >North Dakota State University > >------------------------------------------------------ >[Note: Since the testing performed on the above Newman Motor/Generators, >numerous improvements/innovations have been made to subsequent Newman >Motor/Generator designs.] > >Posted by: > >Evan Soule' >Director of Information >NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS >josephnewman@earthlink.net >(504) 524-3063 >P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 >Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 > http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html > > >"In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood >literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists >in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The >energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." > --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 2 02:48:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA29180; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 02:32:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 02:32:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3342353B.232@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 20:00:19 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"50aR61.0.s77.sMZGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Seems all this merging of ideas and nashing of teeth has finally come to some use. As I write this, sitting on my desk, is a very simple to build (approx 10 minutes) proof of principal OU device. It really works. It took me several days to fully accept this. My mind still, even now, says I have missed something. Watching it work blows my mind. When I showed it to my wife, she said "Of course it works, anyone could understand why". It is NOT based on the DNMEC effect. When you finally learn how it works, you will kick yourself. I am visiting my local, friendly, totally trustworthy local patent attorney early tomorrow. When he gives me the ok, you guys will be the first to know. Buy the way, a 10hp unit, build in a garage, would cost around $1-2k Aust. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 2 06:33:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA17585; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 06:13:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 06:13:45 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:13:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970402091306_1319838431@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Magnetic Compression Pump Resent-Message-ID: <"K_cyR1.0.hI4.OccGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 02/04/1997 00:29:08, you wrote : << From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Hi Jean-Louis and others, Jean-Louis, I'm looking at your webpage for the magnetic compression pump and it looks like your circuit is a parametric process like the ones I've been talking about. Or am I just seeing them everywhere right now? >> << Date : 02/04/1997 01:37:04 From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Jean-Louis, I've had a good look at the diagrams etc., of your Magnetic Compression Energy Pump. It looks interesting, but I can't quite figure out how it all works! Some of the elements, and the circuit diagram, don't quite conform to my own old fashioned expectations of diagrammatic convention. Can you give us a little further explanation on just how the MCEP circuit actually operates? It does involve parametric inductance somehow doesn't it? >> Hi Fred, Stuart and All, Yes, I agree with you, the MCEP device look like a parametric device. The most important thinks is that the compression process must act faster than the initial tau=L/R, when the coils is switched in closed-loop. This "tau" must be at least 2*tau at the end of the compression process. I think that this is the main key of the system, at the beginning of the compression the S-Flow quantity is fixed by the magnetic energy stored in the L1,L2 circuit at the end of compression, if the time (time frame) compression is obtained the S-Flow continu to flow in the circuit, all energy is transfered in L2 tank circuit faster than the current flow ( tau(final)>tau(initial) ) and the system may act as a energy pump in the circuit. I use MC5 electronic simulator circuit it is a very powerfull software program and you can freely download it at : http://www.micro-cap.co.uk. You have on my web page the full details and the correct parameters to setup the MC5 simulator, if you use my setup you will obtain the same result. I suggest you to use only two inductance L1/L2 as described in first diagram "Main Principle" with L1 = f(T). The flux must maintain contant Phi=L(t).I(t)=cste during the compression process. The version 2.2 of the MCEP is the simplest version, but I think that your suggestion of the use of varying inductor is a good solution. The main problem in a saturable reactor or a parametric transformer is the response time of this device. The magnetic inertial momentum of the system ( due to the tau ) is the big problem, that is the reason why I have choosen to switch inductors. Don't forget that the S-Flow must run faster than the current flow in the circuit, if you want to tap free energy potential...... The system act as a water siphon for the energy.... If you are interested to use MC5, I shall be able to help you to reproduce my own setup. I hope that with our thinking synergy, we shall be able to build a functional O/U circuit, soon. Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 2 11:35:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA16001; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:07:20 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:07:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:07:08 -0800 Message-Id: <9704021907.AA21429@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: New OU device!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"asq3P.0.wv3.cvgGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Greg: I am overjoyed and excited that you have discovered a true free-energy device that is easily replicable. Hopefully it is something that even I can put together... If you publish the information do I have your permission to make one or two (or have them made) and install them in some of the rural intentional communities here? I will broadcast the positive results far and wide and in essence market your invention for you. I won't build models for sale, just for experiment. Is the device mechanical or rotational? I'm dying of curiosity! Everybody is going to give you advice on this thing. I want to say that I believe that the inventor should always exercise full power over his invention. That said, I will also give you my advice. Although there ARE powerful conspiracies on the planet, I do not believe that ultimately they have any effect (they cancel out). That said, precaution is good. Make numerous copies of a full disclosure and send them to many faraway places. I myself would post the general outline and test results on the Internet as soon as patent issues were resolved. This posting has many advantages: --it protects you from conspiracy. --it nullifies any other person's claim to your invention. --it informs the world of your invention. --it begins the process of replication and testing. All replication should be under control of you the inventor. This could be done by asking that all requests for details and building instructions be made through public mail to this list or a website. Everyone then knows who is using your plans and ideas, there is no possibility of theft of intellectual property. You could charge a reasonable amount, say, 20-200 dollars (depending on your preference) for plans and this would finance your research & living expenses. Here's the way I would do it if I were in your shoes. I am NOT suggesting that this is the best way for you. I have to make a little excursus into my personal belief system now, hope this doesn't bore you. I believe that the many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory is literally true on a macroscopic level. When we make choices different Earths spring off from every choice. Each Earth is relatively isolated from each other, but there is some "bleedthrough". I also (on another level) became very concerned about humanity's treatment of the Earth. I believe that our race has gone through obliterative catastrophes before (I was there!) and I didn't want to repeat the cycle. I reasoned that there were basically two branching lines of different Earths moving off the present major decision point for humanity: (Get off fossil fuels and preserve the Earth.) OR (Suck it all dry, and die.) If choices were what decided the reality I was going to experience, then personal choice was my personal way to move into the Earth where I wanted to live my future. Because of my interests in technology, I decided that the way I could best create the future Earth I wanted was to support the effort to make an over-unity device. I decided that if I myself created such a device that I would immediately broadcast all details through the Internet and all available media so that it would becaome an unstoppable force in the world, sweeping all other energy-producing means aside as garage tinkerers everywhere would try it and spread the word. This would insure the result I wanted- a world that my daughter would enjoy being in. Well, it turned out to be a little more complicated than that. I didn't realize that the inventor could be prevented from using his own invention. That's why I now recommend broadcasting far and wide AND starting a patent application. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 2 11:37:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA03992; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:17:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:17:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <9704021917.AA30689@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: John Hutchison's address Resent-Message-ID: <"2ULrR2.0.I-.s2hGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Here is the personal data for John Hutchison: John Hutchison Suite 305 727 5th Avenue New Westminster, B.C Canada V3M 1X8 (604)-524-4875 As far as I know, he's not online. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 2 15:28:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA23949; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:17:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:17:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 97 11:20 NZST X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: RE: New OU device!!! X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"YlgpJ2.0.5s5.kZkGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Fred, and all, May I also add my congratulations to you Greg. We'll all wait with bated breath for more news. Some very pertinent and interesting comments there Fred. We seem to share a similar understanding and philosophy. Was it Bill Beaty who once called this the "Promethius effect"? >I believe that the many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory is >literally true on a macroscopic level. When we make choices different Earths >spring off from every choice. Each Earth is relatively isolated from each >other, but there is some "bleedthrough". Yes, exactly. But as time is merely a clever illusion of "matter", an INFINITE set of variations exist in an eternal "now". When we PROJECT our "choices", we simply change the shape of our "now" (including something we mistakenly refer to as "the past"). A VERY tricky thing to observe - but with a little thought, quite simple. Regards, Stuart Rae ================================================================================ 7B Mountain View Road, Blenheim, New Zealand. Ph: +64 3 578 9160 "No Mummy, there are only two times. Email: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz Now, and not now!" ================================================================================ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 2 18:21:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA19039; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:01:41 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:01:41 -0800 (PST) From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:47:08 +1000 Message-Id: <9704030147.AA03717@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna Resent-Message-ID: <"r9xeM1.0.Of4.2-mGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > The patent is #5442369, to West >Virginia University. I'm not an antenna expert. Could someone look at >it and figure out whether it behaves as claimed? > This is a directional, not omni-directional source. Make two on ferrite cores. Align to the same axis. Energise one, and look at output of second on CRO. This will vary if the orientation is disturbed. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 2 21:53:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA23351; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 21:22:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 21:22:40 -0800 Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:22:57 +1000 (EST) From: Alan Yates To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Ballast Inductors Message-ID: Cipher: None, MD5 Hash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-fjA43.0.ki5.VwpGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I was playing with a Fluro' Light ballast inductor last night, and just for the hell of it I put it inside a aluminum box and connected it up to my CRO through some coax and a BNC panel mount socket. When I looked at the output at very high amplification on the CRO I saw nothing special, until I tried to move the box and coil, as I moved the coil about in space I found a voltage induced in the coil, not very big, on the order of 1-5mV. The voltage only appears to be induced when the coil is undergoing acceleration. Any ideas, the earth's magnetic field? Rotation of the box induces a bigger voltage, about 10mV. The coil itself is many turns of 0.5 mm wire around a very heavy laminated iron core. Its inductance is huge, I measured it at about 1.2H, and when a DC current is interrupted passing through it big flaming arcs jump across the separated wires. Alan. PS: The direction of the movement of the coil in space seems to make no difference to the induced voltage. -- Alan Yates - VK2ZAY mailto:alany@ay.com.au 3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/ Sysop AY Communications +61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165 MD5 Message Digest: 6b546d810252909fa2c364da4d027cdb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 01:16:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA24733; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:09:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:09:26 -0800 Message-ID: <33437344.74F9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 18:37:16 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OTN8g.0.N26.4FtGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just a note to try to answer many questions. 1) NO it is not a April 1 joke. 2) It may not be patentable. 3) You can verify the kinetic energy gain with only the aid of your eyes and a basic knowledge of physics. The effect is really very simple. As a light bulb is simple, but look at now long Edison laboured to find the proper mix to make it work. 4) The demo unit I have built is not self running. It was not designed to do that. 5) A self running unit would be the basic for any patent claim or company structure. 6) If a patent can't be obtained, I will explore option to bring the device to market as quickly as possible. Anyone who has an interest in this is invited to contact me. 7) Financial assistance will not be sought until a self running unit exists. I still have my doubts. 8) I don't seek to become mega rich, but I do realize the size of the market AND the problems which would be faced. This is NOT the place for the timid or the overambitious. 9) I really wish I could discuss this with the group and still be able to file for a patent later. But that's not the way the system works. 10) This is not a game or a con or a fraud. It is very hard for me to hold back details. It is not normally in my nature to restrict information. Time and wiser heads may prove me wrong, but I am not attempting to fool anyone, least not this company. I respect your input and comments. KEEP UP THE COMMENTS. Always remember : None of us is as Smart as all of us. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 03:34:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA16710; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 03:23:06 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 03:23:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 22:30:00 +1000 Message-Id: <199704031230.WAA32046@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: New OU device!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"klyBE.0.054.OCvGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:07 AM 4/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >Dear Greg: > > I am overjoyed and excited that you have discovered a true free-energy >device that is easily replicable. Hopefully it is something that even I can >put together... If you publish the information do I have your permission to >make one or two (or have them made) and install them in some of the rural >intentional communities here? I will broadcast the positive results far and >wide and in essence market your invention for you. I won't build models for >sale, just for experiment. > Is the device mechanical or rotational? I'm dying of curiosity! > Everybody is going to give you advice on this thing. I want to say that I >believe that the inventor should always exercise full power over his invention. > That said, I will also give you my advice. > Although there ARE powerful conspiracies on the planet, I do not believe >that ultimately they have any effect (they cancel out). That said, >precaution is good. Make numerous copies of a full disclosure and send them >to many faraway places. I myself would post the general outline and test >results on the Internet as soon as patent issues were resolved. >This posting has many advantages: >--it protects you from conspiracy. >--it nullifies any other person's claim to your invention. >--it informs the world of your invention. >--it begins the process of replication and testing. > > All replication should be under control of you the inventor. This could >be done by asking that all requests for details and building instructions be >made through public mail to this list or a website. Everyone then knows who >is using your plans and ideas, there is no possibility of theft of >intellectual property. You could charge a reasonable amount, say, 20-200 >dollars (depending on your preference) for plans and this would finance your >research & living expenses. > > Here's the way I would do it if I were in your shoes. I am NOT suggesting >that this is the best way for you. I have to make a little excursus into my >personal belief system now, hope this doesn't bore you. > I believe that the many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory is >literally true on a macroscopic level. When we make choices different Earths >spring off from every choice. Each Earth is relatively isolated from each >other, but there is some "bleedthrough". > I also (on another level) became very concerned about humanity's >treatment of the Earth. I believe that our race has gone through >obliterative catastrophes before (I was there!) and I didn't want to repeat >the cycle. > I reasoned that there were basically two branching lines of different >Earths moving off the present major decision point for humanity: > >(Get off fossil fuels and preserve the Earth.) >OR >(Suck it all dry, and die.) > > If choices were what decided the reality I was going to experience, then >personal choice was my personal way to move into the Earth where I wanted to >live my future. > Because of my interests in technology, I decided that the way I could >best create the future Earth I wanted was to support the effort to make an >over-unity device. > I decided that if I myself created such a device that I would immediately >broadcast all details through the Internet and all available media so that >it would becaome an unstoppable force in the world, sweeping all other >energy-producing means aside as garage tinkerers everywhere would try it and >spread the word. This would insure the result I wanted- a world that my >daughter would enjoy being in. > Well, it turned out to be a little more complicated than that. I didn't >realize that the inventor could be prevented from using his own invention. >That's why I now recommend broadcasting far and wide AND starting a patent >application. > > Fred > > Is it true the US American Goverment has a law preventing a new device if it goes against your national security (which could be anything something like the ideas expressed in the film Chain Reation >I not sure Australia has such a thing but would not be surprised in we did. Geoff > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 07:27:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA16108; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:24:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:24:18 -0800 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 10:23:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970403102300_-1068074005@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ballast Inductors Resent-Message-ID: <"rIdCM.0.ax3.WkyGp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A couple of points/questions: 1. Is the induced voltage a "dc" voltage proportional to the movement or an induced AC voltage, maybe 60 cycles? 2. If the polarity of the voltage does not change (assuming it is "dc", when you reverse the direction of movement then you are probably not measuring a real effect but rather a grounding/coax type of problem. 3. If it is a real effect my offhand guess would be the earth's magnetic field is a possibility. If this is true you would see significantly different amplitudes when you rotate the coil in plane of the field or perpendicular to the plane. Keasy From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 08:29:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA27647; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:12:54 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:12:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 02:13:13 +1000 (EST) From: Alan Yates To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ballast Inductors In-Reply-To: <970403102300_-1068074005@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Cipher: None, MD5 Hash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"37hS83.0.ll6.2SzGp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 3 Apr 1997 Keasy@aol.com wrote: > A couple of points/questions: > 1. Is the induced voltage a "dc" voltage proportional to the movement or an > induced AC voltage, maybe 60 cycles? > 2. If the polarity of the voltage does not change (assuming it is "dc", > when you reverse the direction of movement then you are probably not > measuring a real effect but rather a grounding/coax type of problem. > 3. If it is a real effect my offhand guess would be the earth's magnetic > field is a possibility. If this is true you would see significantly > different amplitudes when you rotate the coil in plane of the field or > perpendicular to the plane. Yeah, I should have been a bit more specific. It is a DC signal, proportional to acceleration of the coil, not its translation. Moving at a constant velocity it produces no voltage. The polarity is related to the sense of the acceleration. If I accelerate it one way and the the other, the voltage is of the same polarity during the accelerating phase, opposite in the decelerating phase. The Coax is _very_ microphonic, but I eliminated coax induced signals by using a amplifier inside the box. It seemed strange to me that the orientation of the coil made little or no difference to the amplitude of the response. I couldn't null out the effect. Yes, the box being only Au leaks B/H so the field of the earth (or my 25 Amp power supply) Seems a likely candidate, except for the strange isotropic nature of the signal. Does this mean that I have an accelerometer or a magnetometer? The coil is a bit big and heavy to put in my (magnetic) pipe shields so I can't really decide yet. Any other ideas? Alan PS: The laminations my be slightly magnetized by my DC current surges, the coil is fixed rigidly in the case. Could it be interacting with this small static field? I will try degaussing it carefully and see if that makes any difference. -- Alan Yates - VK2ZAY mailto:alany@ay.com.au 3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/ Sysop AY Communications +61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165 MD5 Message Digest: 7e56702568745908c63e0af60643a823 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 10:07:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA16520; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 09:46:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 09:46:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:49:54 +0100 From: Geoff Greaves Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk Organization: Computer Cafes Limited X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: To patent or not to patent, that is the question? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <97Apr3.184243bst.74881@gatehouse.powys.gov.uk> Resent-Message-ID: <"pTKtL3.0.224.bp-Gp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The only good argument I've heard for patenting an FE device is to stop someone else patenting it. Common wisdom advises a patent to capitalise financially on the discovery or development made. I've not tried patenting personally but friends have and they're still poor a year later and really fed up because of the distraction from what they really enjoy doing. Our US friends quote para 35 or somesuch about how the US government can snatch your ideas for themselves and I'm sure the equivalent exists in all countries. Here in the UK Cockerill's hovercraft design languished on a ministry of defence shelf for a number of years before he got it released. Whatever your patent rights someone in Taiwan will make it anyway and they'll be a queue of people wanting to import it. The airing of these thoughts are of course prompted by Greg's announcement; keep your back covered mate:-) Geoff Greaves From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 10:10:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16977 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 10:10:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 10:10:10 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: reed@zenergy.com Thu Apr 3 10:10:05 1997 Received: from inficad.net (root@inficad.net [208.198.100.2]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA16938 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 10:10:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip110.ts5.phx.inficad.com (ip110.ts5.phx.inficad.com [208.198.101.110]) by inficad.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04584 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:13:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by ip110.ts5.phx.inficad.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC401F.9601DE80@ip110.ts5.phx.inficad.com>; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:10:06 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC401F.9601DE80@ip110.ts5.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: IBM Teleportation Old-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 19:24:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC401F.962C9800" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC401F.962C9800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Information on IBM's research into teleportation: http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/ - Reed Huish Zenergy Corporation, http://zenergy.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC401F.962C9800 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgcSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQASAAAASUJN IFRlbGVwb3J0YXRpb24AYgYBBYADAA4AAADNBwQAAgATABgANwADAD8BASCAAwAOAAAAzQcEAAIA EwAXADoAAwBBAQEJgAEAIQAAADBBNjQ5RDg1OENBQkQwMTFCOTdDNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAPAGAQOQ BgB4AgAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA4Asm ONY/vAEeAHAAAQAAABIAAABJQk0gVGVsZXBvcnRhdGlvbgAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8P9Y4FYWd ZAurjBHQuXxERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAARAAAAcmVlZEB6ZW5l cmd5LmNvbQAAAAADAAYQMFeOVwMABxCMAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASU5GT1JNQVRJT05PTklCTVNS RVNFQVJDSElOVE9URUxFUE9SVEFUSU9OOkhUVFA6Ly9XV1dSRVNFQVJDSElCTUNPTS9RVUFOVFVN SU5GTy9URUxFUE9SVEFUSU9OLy1SRUVESAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAPYAAADyAAAAlwEAAExaRnUc1K4/ /wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoAufQqACM8J2TsUzzI1 HjUCgAqBDbELYG5nMbgwMzMK+xLyDAFjAEAoIEluAhByAMB0aYUCICAaQUlCTScEIC8U0BHwCsAR sCALgHRvwCB0ZWxlcBRxGhMUOiAKhWgCQHA6LxQvdx2wLhsGLmlihG0uBaBtL3F1AHBYdHVtC4AC EC8b6y8bCoUgrC0H8AngZCBI2nUEAGgKhSMQWgnwBJBoZ3kgCFByHCEaEyy9HTZ6I1QesgqFE/EA JmAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwwGxDFtY/vAFAAAgwwGxDFtY/vAEeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAA AAAAAwANNP03AAAojw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC401F.962C9800-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 11:31:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA27245; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:07:54 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:07:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:05:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199704031905.NAA29194@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: neotech@xbn.shore.net Subject: Re: Moray, Rife, and Patrick Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"y-EZd1.0.cf6.800Hp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > >On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Psyberdude wrote: > >> Dear Greg: >> >> The patent office is closely affiliated with the "security" branch of the >> U.S. government. Any true over-unity device that really works would >> be considered a threat to the established utility companies and the >> patent office will just slap a "national security problem" label on your >> device prohibiting you from publishing the plans, manufacturing >> it or even just talking about it, or face imprisonment and possibly a heavy >> fine. This is what happened to Patrick Flannigan when he tried to have >> his "neurophone" patented. > > What did Patrick's neurophone do? Can you point me to any >information on this? > There is some info on this in the book THE EXCALIBUR BRIEFING by Thomas Bearden, including some drawings. Basically it electronically takes the second derivative of an audio waveform and applies that voltage to electrodes on the sides of the head. Then person can actually hear the sound then, without speakers. > > Likewise, what did Moray and Rife do? Just curious. > > Thanx. > > John T. Henry Moray developed a free energy device back in the 1930's. He did a demonstration where it produced several kilowatts of power for a number of hours with the only source of apparent energy being a wire or antenna. He was shot at on several occasions by persons unknown, I think, and his papers were stolen by a Soviet agent acting as an assistant to him. That person also destroyed his laboratory. His secret died with him, unless the original papers are still around somewhere (hidden, no doubt.) His book, THE SEA OF ENERGY, doesn't really give enough information to build the device. Bruce Perrault may have figured it out, though. However, Bruce was also attacked (verbally, anyway) after he posted his results on the freenrg list. Royal Rife developed an electronic device to cure cancer and other illnesses back in the 1930's. He was driven underground by the AMA and the FDA, and was also physically attacked on numerous occasions. There is a book about his device and his life also, THE CANCER CURE THAT WORKED by Barry Lynes and John Crane. - Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 11:55:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA11898; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:38:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:38:00 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970403113839.0072e6ac@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 11:38:40 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: PATENTS DO NOT PROVIDE ANY REAL PROTECTION ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"79bE9.0.qv2.NS0Hp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'VE DONE IT, BEEN THERE... Anybody can get a patent, almost NOBODY can afford to defend it in court ! Undefensible patent is USELESS (except maybe for the ego and a resume...) Patents cost money, and even more money if an attorney is involved. They are extremely time consuming and cause large DELAYS in the release of the idea !!! In return they provide no real benefits besides ego boosting ! Patents do not provide protection just by their mere existence, you must willing to defend them in court if you can find and prove that somebody has infringed on your patent, and only if you can afford this legal action. Most of the individuals DO NOT STAND A CHANCE to defend their patents successfully against the resources of a large corporation. Yes MIGHT IS RIGHT and money makes the world go around, that means that ANYBODY WHO IS STRONGER than you can take your idea away leaving you with a useless patent (piece of paper). It is also impossible and totally uneconomical to find and sue everybody who infringes on your patent. Even even if you could do that, the life of the marketable idea would be over by the time you got the infringer to court !!! By the time the patent infringement lawsuit is over, several years later, the product/idea will have been totally exploited by others (just look at the CRT display example !) PATENTS DO NOT PROVIDE ANY REAL PROTECTION ! Furthermore patenting opens you to government censorship (yes! US. Patent Section 35 is a real law) Patents do not market the invention, and they do not cause crowds of investors to beat down your door. All the hard work of developing and producing a marketable product still has to be done. It is the inventors only chance to do it as fast and best as possible beating everybody in the race to market. This is only real advantage and protection an inventor can get. Time provides 10E9 better protection than the patent system ! If you want to be recognized as the first one who created an idea, there are other & better ways of doing it. One is: as much publicity and openness as possible. Another way is gathering 100 personal credible expert witnesses and have them sign a statement in front of notary public that they have seen your idea/product at such and such a time. Using such evidence you will be always able to prove that you were the idea's originator. PATENTING ANYTHING IN 1997 IS A TOTAL WASTE OF SANITY AND MONEY, that could be better spent developing the idea/product !!! For an in depth analysis why it DOESN NOT MAKE SENSE to patent a $ 1,000,000 (million) dollar idea look at the article by a man who has done it all at: http://www.tinaja.com/glib/when2pat.pdf and http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.html At 06:49 PM 4/3/97 +0100, you wrote: > >The only good argument I've heard for patenting an FE device is to stop >someone else patenting it. >Common wisdom advises a patent to capitalise financially on the >discovery or development made. >I've not tried patenting personally but friends have and they're still >poor a year later and really fed up because of the distraction from what >they really enjoy doing. >Our US friends quote para 35 or somesuch about how the US government can >snatch your ideas for themselves and I'm sure the equivalent exists in >all countries. Here in the UK Cockerill's hovercraft design languished >on a ministry of defence shelf for a number of years before he got it >released. >Whatever your patent rights someone in Taiwan will make it anyway and >they'll be a queue of people wanting to import it. >The airing of these thoughts are of course prompted by Greg's >announcement; keep your back covered mate:-) > >Geoff Greaves From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 17:11:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA15986; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 17:06:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 17:06:14 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:08:09 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: PATENTS DO NOT PROVIDE ANY REAL PROTECTION? Resent-Message-ID: <"GB8E31.0.iv3.6G5Hp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy writes: >I'VE DONE IT, BEEN THERE... > > >Anybody can get a patent, almost NOBODY can afford to defend it in court ! > >Undefensible patent is USELESS (except maybe for the ego and a resume...) > >Patents cost money, and even more money if an attorney is involved. They snip--- Well.... speaking frankly, one would assume by virtue of the words above that Joseph Newman is therefore not "anybody." I've seen firsthand his massive and amazing struggle to get a patent -- and rest assured that his efforts only serve to underscore the injustice ("criminal injustice" in the opinion of one Congressman) practiced by certain PTO officials. I suppose one can either accept the unjust patent system as it is presently constituted, or endeavor to change it. Joseph Newman has chosen the later route. He knew 17 years ago that it would more than likely be a long and arduous struggle --- but then I've never known him (for better or worse) to select the easy path. Speaking only for myself -- I am generally a bit more pragmatic -- but I must nevertheless respect Joe for his strong position on this issue.....I can only hope that 1) his actions will be justified in the long run and 2) the long run will be as short as possible (one's lifetime would be "nice"!). And Epitaxy, I don't doubt for a moment your belief in your position (based upon your inputs) that patenting anything is a waste of time ... so I am not trying to take you to task for your opinion --- I completely respect your right to your opinion. However, I have been present when corporate executives have expressed great interest in Joseph Newman's technology and have told him (on several occasions to which I was a witness): "Please contact us when you have secured your patent rights." Now you or I or anyone else can question their underlying _movtives_ for their having made this statement. But this is besides the point: I cannot read their minds. What I do know for a fact is that this statement was repeatedly made to Joseph Newman -- whatever their underlying reason(s). Joseph Newman's position: Patent Office officials must be held accountable for their actions (or lack thereof); my position: either scrap the PTO entirely, or insist that it live up to the expectations of its creators. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 20:40:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA16508; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:23:15 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:23:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3344803F.7F6F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:44:55 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device. References: <970403111625_1021128340@emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"si6-p3.0.r14.l88Hp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/3/97 2:47:32 AM, Greg Watson wrote: > > < kinetic energy in a one shot demo>> > > Greg, this sounds suspiciously like the Johnson and TOMI demos in which one > (without realizing it) pushes up a long but imperceptible magnetic hill, lets > go, and is amazed to see something fire across the room and put a hole in the > wall, not realizing that the kinetic energy output = the potential energy > input. One then dreams of putting it in a circle, buts finds > (disappointedly) that when it goes around it never makes it all the way. > (Speaking from our own lab experience, ask Scott!). > > Can you be sure this is not it? > > Hal Puthoff Hi Hal. I am fully aware of the characteristics of magnetic gates. I have tried to help Jean-Louis and others understand the Bendi gate tests are fully conservative. Your hill description is a very good, clear and simple example of how these devices seem to produce excess energy but are in fact really fully conservative. It is not a Johnson or Tomi like device. I have, like you guys, played with and simulated these devices. They are not OU. To answer your final question, I am 99.9% sure the energy gain is real and quite large. I am now working on a closed loop model. Should know by early tomorrow. I don't expect to get much sleep. It was a pity, I didn't have a video camera when my patent attorney watched the single shot demo. His facial expressions really told the story. It took him about 0.5 seconds to understand what he had seem and 2 minutes to speek. I have known him as a friend and associate for many years. We served together on various SA Gov advisory panels. He is very knowledgeable is this field. His staff PHD looked at it and came up with several attempts to explain it could not work. Seems he had a problem with his eyes. He left saying "Close the loop". I agreeeded. I will keep all you informed as much as I can. These posts are to be incorporated into my lab log. If you don't want a post in the log, please say so and I will respect your wishes. Thanks for all the good wishes and support. Bye for now. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 22:16:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA00328; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 22:11:54 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 22:11:54 -0800 (PST) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 01:10:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970404011058_-1503511888@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Simple OU Device. Resent-Message-ID: <"bm_PI1.0.w4.ck9Hp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 04/04/1997 05:39:38 , you wrote : << Suj : Re: Simple OU Device. Date : 04/04/1997 05:39:38 From: gwatson@microtronics.com.au (Greg Watson) Hi Hal. I am fully aware of the characteristics of magnetic gates. I have tried to help Jean-Louis and others understand the Bendi gate tests are fully conservative. Your hill description is a very good, clear and simple example of how these devices seem to produce excess energy but are in fact really fully conservative. >> Hi Greg, Yes, I have really appreciated your help, your QField simulations are very helpfull, thank you very much. May your Quest Of Overunity find its way, SOON.... :-) Good Luck, Greg, Sincerely, Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 23:26:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA08419; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:19:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:19:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:19:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199704040719.XAA08382@mx2.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Re: PATENTS DO NOT PROVIDE ANY REAL PROTECTION ! Resent-Message-ID: <"KiTU72.0.S32.EkAHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Patents cost money, and even more money if an attorney is involved. They >are extremely time consuming and cause large DELAYS in the release of the >idea !!! In return they provide no real benefits besides ego boosting ! >... >For an in depth analysis why it DOESN NOT MAKE SENSE to patent a $ >1,000,000 (million) dollar idea look at the article by a man who has done >it all at: >http://www.tinaja.com/glib/when2pat.pdf >and >http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.html >... I have said this before, but I think its time for me to say it again: Why not use the SHAREWARE scheme? Ignore the patent alltogether! If its really is a O/U-device, then it would most probably be something that will be either stolen by the government or maffia. If you on the otherhand give it out with a note saying something like this: "Dont sell this claiming its yours, postages is okay to charge for. If you think this information is valuable for you, then I suggest you to send me a amount of money to me at the following adress: ..." 10,000+ friends is much much more valuable that a piece of paper from the patent office! I propose that information along with all other natural resources are not to be owned by anybody but the nature itself! We humans are only allowed to administer, the natural resources with the best kind of care. exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 3 23:26:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA08370; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:19:28 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:19:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970403231958.01027f54@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:19:59 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kc-1E2.0.g22.-jAHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey guys, I have talked to Greg Watson today and he seems to be pretty sure he is onto something. If you have corresponded with him on this list, you will know that he is a knowledgable, credible "nuts&bolts" person, that will not be deceived by the "little bird with a long neck which keeps bending over to drink water" or the common "up the long hill..." mistake. His prototype doesn't try to create energy from nothing, but attempts to harness the basic forces existing in matter in a way that hasn't been tried before. We already do similar things by burning coal, gasoline, uranium, etc... All of these methods extract the energy from electrons (chemical bonds) or the nucleus itself. He might have found another way to cleanly accomplish this energy extraction from matter. Greg is working on closing the loop as I am writing this, and I am expecting a post from him to this list on this issue tomorrow. >From the details he has told me, his failure to close the loop would raise as many questions as his success ! Once again, Greg is not an easily deceivable person, and I don't think he is putting us on. You should watch his progress closely At 01:45 PM 4/4/97 +0930, you wrote: >Terry Blanton wrote: >> >> Greg Watson says: >> >> >>1) NO it is not a April 1 joke.<< >> >> I know what it is. It's a little bird with a long neck which keeps bending over >> to drink water. >> >> Terry >Hi Terry, > >You are getting colder. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 02:34:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA19654; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 02:29:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 02:29:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3344D710.2240@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 19:55:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: PATENTS DO NOT PROVIDE ANY REAL PROTECTION ! References: <199704040719.XAA08382@mx2.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hmENi2.0.to4.iVDHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Johnny Feelgood wrote: > > >Patents cost money, and even more money if an attorney is involved. They > >are extremely time consuming and cause large DELAYS in the release of the > >idea !!! In return they provide no real benefits besides ego boosting ! I WILL release the idea ASAP! A provisional patent will be filed with-in 2 weeks. > >For an in depth analysis why it DOESN NOT MAKE SENSE to patent a $ > >1,000,000 (million) dollar idea look at the article by a man who has done > >it all at: > >http://www.tinaja.com/glib/when2pat.pdf > >and > >http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.html > >... While patents have problems, they also have advantages. The bottom line is what I want from the patent and its not to become mega rich or mega powerfull. I do want retain some control to ensure the idea is not lost or the end user benefit never happening. > I have said this before, but I think its time for me to say it again: > Why not use the SHAREWARE scheme? Ignore the patent alltogether! If its > really is a O/U-device, then it would most probably be something that will > be either stolen by the government or maffia. I think you have been watching too many X files or listening to too many fishing stories about the one that got away. The world runs on profit. If an idea can reduce end user cost, increase end use benefit, reduce prime provider cost and increase bottom line profit, it will never die. Profit rules. > If you on the otherhand give it out with a note saying something like this: > "Dont sell this claiming its yours, postages is okay to charge for. If > you think this information is valuable for you, then I suggest you to send > me a amount of money to me at the following adress: ..." > > 10,000+ friends is much much more valuable that a piece of paper from the > patent office! Our society is based on many such pieces of paper. You might as well say that your car rego, bank statement or house ownership is also not worth the paper it's written on. Societies need structure. No ownership of property, no western society. I don't really believe its the best way, but its what we have at the moment and we must try to work with-in the bounds WE have so set. > I propose that information along with all other natural resources are not > to be owned by anybody but the nature itself! We humans are only allowed > to administer, the natural resources with the best kind of care. We don't seem to have done such a crash hot job so far. > exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! > mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se > http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm Hi Johnny, Thanks for the comments. Hope you value by additions. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 02:34:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA20067; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 02:31:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 02:31:36 -0800 (PST) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 05:30:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970404053033_1750432955@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Scalar Waves Simulator program Resent-Message-ID: <"Qy5R_3.0.Nv4.4YDHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Information Update on "The Quest For Overunity " - QFO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Dear All, I have developped a software program which simulate waves interferences and how scalar waves may be generated. This SCALAR WAVES PROGRAM which show to you scalar waves as you can see on an oscilloscope. This program is in zipped format (SCALSIM.ZIP). Its run on a PC under windows 95, and you can distribute this program freely. You can download this program from my web, I give you the direct link : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/scalsim.htm I look forward to receive your comments and feedback soon, Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 03:14:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA23865 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 03:14:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 03:14:25 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: harti@harti.com Fri Apr 4 03:14:20 1997 Received: from shell2.ba.best.com (root@shell2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.133]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA23822 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 03:14:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.bbtt.de ([193.203.161.162]) by shell2.ba.best.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA22590; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 03:12:49 -0800 (PST) Old-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 03:12:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199704041112.DAA22590@shell2.ba.best.com> X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: PATENTS DO NOT PROVIDE ANY REAL PROTECTION ! Cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: > >I'VE DONE IT, BEEN THERE... > > >Anybody can get a patent, almost NOBODY can afford to defend it in court ! > >Undefensible patent is USELESS (except maybe for the ego and a resume...) > >Patents cost money, and even more money if an attorney is involved. They >are extremely time consuming and cause large DELAYS in the release of the >idea !!! In return they provide no real benefits besides ego boosting ! > > >If you want to be recognized as the first one who created an idea, there >are other & better ways of doing it. One is: as much publicity and >openness as possible. Another way is gathering 100 personal credible >expert witnesses and have them sign a statement in front of notary public >that they have seen your idea/product at such and such a time. Using such >evidence you will be always able to prove that you were the idea's originator. > > >PATENTING ANYTHING IN 1997 IS A TOTAL WASTE OF SANITY AND MONEY, that >could be better spent developing the idea/product !!! > > I totally agree with Epi ! Greg, just try to market this thing as soon as possible. You as the inventor knows the most of it, so you will have the benefit to be the first on the market and thus will get rich nad famous this way, NOT VIA a PATENT ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 07:21:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA12628; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 07:12:06 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 07:12:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:11:31 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WARNING: more speculation In-Reply-To: <9704020602.AA22328@mail1.halcyon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hxfwn3.0.E53.4fHHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Fred Epps wrote: > other, in terms of infinite sets. I'm truly way out of my depth here, and > anyone with a mathematical inclination can have a look at a paper I have > called "On The Properties Of Materials and the Concepts of Time and Space" > by Vidim Komkov and Kirk Valanis. Hi again Fred. You seem to have your hands on alot of damn good papers :). I'm interested in this one as well. If you've already sent the others, could you please just give me the full reference to this one (and i'll try to get it through interlibrary loan). > inertia the work done by the system increases. This work can be transferred > to the reference frame and used. Actually, this is the principle of > parametric amplification. I haven't heard of parametric amplification before. Could you recommend a paper or book that explains more? Thanx John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 08:30:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA24836; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:30:18 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:30:18 -0800 (PST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:18:12 PST Subject: Re: Hubbard coil Message-ID: <19960405.080814.6750.0.tv@juno.com> References: <333ECA96.6126@triode.net.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,11-15,23-24,28-29,31-37,39-42 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"fzOlT3.0.r36.NoIHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:18:31 -0800 Maxwell writes: >I just read the 1920 article put up by Bill Beady. Does anyone have >any >follow up information on Hub bards work and his coil? What happened to >Alfred Hubbard later on? The Hubbard Coil was a Radium Powered nuclear battery. It is based on the fact that charged particle radiation such as alpha or beta will alter the characteristics of a resonant coil such as in a tank circuit. This is according to Paul Brown, a physicist who invented and patented a similar device partially as a result of his investigation into the Hubbard coil story. Brown published a very informative book called ISOTOPIC POWER. He has built and demonstrated a number of these nuclear batteries. Some have been powered by Strontium 90. He claims that he also discovered the principle behind the MORAY RADIANT ENERGY DEVICE. He said Moray's device was another nuclear battery but based on another principle. According to a letter he wrote me, he will be publishing another book called THE MORAY DEVICE: OPERATIONAL PARAMETERS, DESIGN CRITERIA, AND CONSIDERATIONS. According to his letter, Brown says the principle of the Moray device involved the anomalous energy production from a resonant cavity filled with gasses exposed to decay energy. I do not know how this relates to the work Paulo and Alexandra Correa as their tubes don't use any radioactive materials. The Correa anomalous Glow Discharge Tubes produce excess energy in bursts during discharges that are almost arcs. If you are interested in getting his book, Paul Brown can be reached at this address, last I knew: (Feb 1995) Paul Brown P.O. Box 893 Oregon City, OR 97045 Bus. Phone: (503) 657-2966 The book was about $40 but had much interesting information on nuclear batteries that is difficult to find in libraries, etc. Tim Vaughan TV@juno.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 08:55:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA29010; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:55:37 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:55:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 11:54:56 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski Reply-To: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar Waves Simulator program In-Reply-To: <970404053033_1750432955@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cm4wO2.0.357.z9JHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > I have developped a software program which simulate waves interferences and > how scalar waves may be generated. This SCALAR WAVES PROGRAM which show to > you scalar waves as you can see on an oscilloscope. > > This program is in zipped format (SCALSIM.ZIP). > http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/scalsim.htm Jean; Good work on the program. It's very interesting. Could you point me to a reference where the equations that you use for the non-linear wave multiplication are? What kinds of materials are needed for this non-linear property? Thanx. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 10:41:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA09081; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:38:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:38:57 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:59:26 PST Subject: Re: Hubbard Coils and Radium Message-ID: <19960405.094116.6750.1.tv@juno.com> References: <9704010324.AA02412@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,7-8,12,17-18,27-28,32-33,44-45,51-52,57-69 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"F6PEP.0.hD2.-gKHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, Thanks for your thoughtful comments on the Hubbard Coil, Hendershot, and Coler inventions. . I agree with you about the possibility that radium may not be the only source of energy in the Hubbard and Hendershot devices. Paul Brown in his book ISOTOPIC POWER also considers this possibility. The Hans Coler inventions (Stromzeuger and Magnet Strom Apparat) are fairly well documented in the BIOS report from Project Paperclip the WWII gathering of technical information at the end of the war by the British and allies. The technical details of the Stromzeuger are sparse, but the Magnet Strom Apparat (Magnet Current Apparatus) is detailed. The most interesting feature which is apparent is the current flowing through the iron rod cores of the transformers which the documents say is pulsing or oscillating at around 180 khz. Captain R. Hurst of the British Ministry of Supply and Captain R. Sanburg of the Norwegian Army brought the components such as magnets, wire, capacitors, etc to Coler and watched him build the Magnet Strom Apparat.. It was not easy to get it to "oscillate" it took hours of adjusting before any results were obtained. But finally they did observe a very definite current flow. If you study the schematic it is apparent that the circuit is a closed loop when the switch is closed as it is during operation. It could not therefore be a just a charged capacitor since the circuit would instantly discharge the capacitor. Currents flowing through the iron core create circular magnetic fields orthogonal to the axial field due to the winding around the rod. This would be similar to what you are describing in your parametric amplifier. The energy that we trying to tap is fluctuation energy, thermal or ZPE. We are trying to "violate" the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For those who immediately dismiss this as impossible read the book THE NATURE OF THERMODYNAMICS by Percy Williams Bridgman. Bridgman got the Nobel prize in physics in the 1930's for his work on thermodynamics. He could certainly be considered an expert on this subject. He states very clearly that organizing of fluctuation energy by some bulk coordination of microscopic interactions (e.g. ferromagnetism) might someday be utilized as a means of extracting useful work from low grade energy like heat. This was also considered many years earlier by James Clerk Maxwell another Thermodynamics expert of some repute. I think Coler may have done just this. Another man that may have done this is Westley gary in the 1870's with is oscillating "neutral point" mechanisms documented in Harpers Magazine March 1870 p. 601-605. Clock work like mechanisms powered entirely by permanent magnets utilizing the neutral point. Gary's feeble but working devices were apparently ignored at that time due to the introduction electrical power. I have experimented with the current through rods myself. I have yet to get a parametric oscillator to be driven this way. However the permeability is definitely altered as expected. I would expect that the core material composition and internal magnetic state is critical to get this effect to predominate over the losses. Tim, TV@juno.com > We have to at least consider the possibility that two different >mechanisms may be involved. The Coler device is a prototypical >solid-state >free energy device that worked with nothing except EM energy >interactions. > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 11:30:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA01308; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 11:29:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 11:29:31 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC40EB.38D078D0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: conversion: reciprocal to rotational energy Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 11:27:46 -0800 Encoding: 12 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"0F7NP2.0.hI.DQLHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I can think of two simple ways to convert low-level reciprocating linear force to rotational: piston-and-crankshaft, and ratchet-and-pawl. The latter seems less prone to frictional losses but only produces small degrees of rotation per cycle. Any other simple methods? This would be applicable to a couple of ideas I've had over the years; one of them is a method for converting excess heat directly to mechanical energy to run fans. Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 14:35:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10475 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:35:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:35:46 -0800 X-Envelope-From: Schalk_Rudy@mmac1.lmms.lmco.com Fri Apr 4 14:35:44 1997 Received: from eagle.lmsc.lockheed.com (eagle.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.20]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10446 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:35:43 -0800 Received: from mmac1.lmms.lmco.com by eagle.lmsc.lockheed.com (8.6.11/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id IAA11836; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:28:36 -0800 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 Apr 1997 08:24:17 -0800 From: "Schalk Rudy" Old-Return-Receipt-To: "Schalk Rudy" Subject: New O/U Device Comments To: "free energy list" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, free energy enthusiasts, Congratulations Greg!! You now have a choice. 1. Quickly disseminate this knowlege throughout the planet, before enough time elapses to suppress it. Initially become known as the "Edison" of the 21st century. In time be regarded as the man who initiated a transformation of planet earth unparalled in history. Spend the rest of your life in whatever way you please knowing that you had a profound positive influence on this earth. 2. Listen to selfish and greedy people, perhaps be convinced to be selfish and greedy yourself. Spend the rest of your life in courts, as lawyers with no real understanding of what you have done feed like vultures on your now critically wounded and dying carcass of an idea. When they have finished that off they will then start feeding on you by convincing you to write a book, or make a tape so that you can pay them back for the money they supposedly spent trying to protect your idea. At the end of this life you will be a bitter and wrecked person and time will await another who might make a different choice to besto this gift to the earth. I and many others await your choice. --Rudy Schalk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 15:27:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA27915; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:27:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:27:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33458DC5.6067@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:54:53 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device (Now not so simple)! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TeaS92.0.zp6.WvOHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just a short note to let you know I am still here. The loop is not closed. One step forward, two big steps backward. My development plan was to build, as simple and quickly as possible, a closed loop system and THEN build another much better closed system which would allow measurements and testing by others to be undertaken. In my haste, I decided to combine the two projects. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I now have a very much larger unit which can't even duplicate the original effect and I don't fully understand why. I thought I FULLY understood what was happening in my first superglue and blu-tack unit. I suspect I went too big, too quickly. Bad decision, bad produce development and very bad science. In building the closed loop system, I scaled up the design by about 6x. I forgot the first law of development and invention. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Oh, well, seems we only REALLY learn by our mistakes. Back to the drawing board, superglue, blu-tack and building a "SIMPLE KISS" closed loop design. Should be finished this weekend. I have just completed a copy of the original unit. I duplicates the effect and will be stored by my patent attorney in a safe location unknown to me. Thanks for the many phone calls of support. Bye for now. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 16:14:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00615; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:14:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:14:04 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:56:38 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device (Now not so simple)! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"lnFyY3.0.F9.8bPHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: snip-- > >In building the closed loop system, I scaled up the design by about 6x. > >I forgot the first law of development and invention. KISS (Keep It >Simple Stupid). > >Oh, well, seems we only REALLY learn by our mistakes. Back to the >drawing board, superglue, blu-tack and building a "SIMPLE KISS" closed >loop design. Should be finished this weekend. > snip--- > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile Yes, mistakes can be sometimes as profitable as achieving the effect you desired. Persistence can pay off! Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 18:43:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00615; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:14:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:14:04 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:56:38 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device (Now not so simple)! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"lnFyY3.0.F9.8bPHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: snip-- > >In building the closed loop system, I scaled up the design by about 6x. > >I forgot the first law of development and invention. KISS (Keep It >Simple Stupid). > >Oh, well, seems we only REALLY learn by our mistakes. Back to the >drawing board, superglue, blu-tack and building a "SIMPLE KISS" closed >loop design. Should be finished this weekend. > snip--- > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile Yes, mistakes can be sometimes as profitable as achieving the effect you desired. Persistence can pay off! Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 18:51:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA29926; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:51:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:51:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3345BD73.116F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 12:18:19 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mEaWq3.0.GJ7.KuRHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, While I set here, working to close the loop, a thought came to me that I would our vortexian friends (and others) to think about. We seem to have a very good understanding that magnetic fields are not a energy source in themselves and can only convert or transmit energy. Any work seen to be done by a magnetic field is actually reflected to the fields energy source. In the case of an electromagnet, we also seem to have a good understanding of how the coil's current (the electron flow), and hense input power varies as the current generated magnetic field does its stuff and does work. What I would ask you to think and comment about is the effect on the energy source of a permanent magnet (IE the aligned spinning iron atom's electrons), if we could get a magnet to deliver real work. Would the electrons of the iron atoms alter their energy levels? Would they slow down? Would they fall to a lower shell? Would the iron atom undergo a chemical / nuclear change if we could extract energy from the spinning electrons? How much energy would be available in 1 cm^3 of magnetised iron before the magnet would suffer some internal chemical / nuclear change? I am sure you understand my thoughts here. Your comments may help to close a much bigger macro loop than my hands now work on. Maybe both loops will close at the same time and help all to better understand. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 4 22:57:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA16601; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:57:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:57:39 -0800 Message-ID: <3345F597.593F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 16:17:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4076A89166C" Resent-Message-ID: <"ie8xw3.0.634.WVVHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4076A89166C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile --------------4076A89166C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3345DB9E.1486@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 14:27:02 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Beaty Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Beaty wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Apr 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > How much energy would be available in 1 cm^3 of magnetised iron before > > the magnet would suffer some internal chemical / nuclear change? > > Not alot, a couple of joules I would imagine. An o/u generator, if it > powered a tiny lightbulb, would pretty quickly go beyond the amount of > energy stored in magnets. I think we need to look further. We normally talk of the energy "Stored in a magnet". What we are refering to is the magnets ability to resist a demagnetizing field. The energy used in the manufacturing process relates to the processes themselves. We use energy to force the domains to align initially and use other tricky processes and energy to make it difficult for the domains to unalign over time. We spend a lot of time and effort to make those domain alignments as stiff as possible. However none of this relates to the energy source used by the domains to generate their own unique fields. If these domain fields are not aligned, we see no external, bulk, macro, whatever field. > If you cut a magnet lengthwise, through the poles, the two halves will > immediately flip so N-N moves to N-S. This removes a major part of the > stored energy, which ends up as frictional heat. If you cut the halves > into quarters, they flip too, but give up less energy. Continue the > process until you have a stack of iron foil having no net magnetization. I totally agree, you have just destroyed the ordered, aligned domain structure. But all you have destroyed is the external, bulk, macro field. The domain's own fields still exist. > Or alternately, interleave a bunch of magnetized foil pieces with > alternating directions. The stack has zero net magnetization. If you > connect the edges of alternating pieces together, then pull them in > opposite directions, you will do quite a lot of work in separating them, > and once separated, the work is entirely stored in the fields around the > two stacks. > > So, a magnet is like a wound spring. It might power a small clock motor > for significant time, but it has *way* less energy than a battery of equal > size. It not the energy required to cause domain alignment that we are interested in. Its the energy source which generates the domain's field that is the key. > Also, the magnetic field is proportional to the remaining stored energy. We don't store energy in a magnet any more than we store energy in a atom, we only allow the domains, their atoms, their electron spins, their moving electric fields to align. The domains provide the field, we only provide and play with the bulk alignment. > If you measure the field, then use the magnet to power some device, as the > magnet loses energy its field will decrease. I agree. But we need to look at the domain and its atoms for the answer as to the energy available. And its not energy we have put there. > Alternately, if the field > does *not* decrease, yet the flywheel turns and the lightbulb stays lit, > then you've proved that the magnet is not the energy source. That would stir things up a bit. > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 > EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ > Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page Hi Bill, OK to forward this to the group? -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile --------------4076A89166C-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 00:01:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA01862; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 00:00:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 00:00:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33461622.384C@gorge.net> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:06:42 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets References: <199704050657.WAA16715@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jQlti3.0.xS.nQWHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg: My opinion, for what it's worth, is that we need to change our ideas about permanent magnets. "Everybody knows" that PMs are made by aligning "domains." Having read everything I can find on PMs, I still cannot force myself to accept the idea of "domains." I have not found any reasonably logical explanation of the idea that little small sections of crystal lattice can move in relation to each other. It seems much more logical that atoms, or molecules in a lattice could turn, within the lattice, such that their individual dipoles align with the imposed magnetic field. In soft iron/ferrite they can return to their original random alignment easily, in "harder" material, they remain aligned. I am aware that This does not fit the dominant paradigm, but we must look "outside the square." If this opinion is correct, then a PM is as permanent as the "rotation" of electrons around the nucleus. Nevertheless, even if the above is true, the PM's aligned atoms could become randomized, either by de-gaussing, or by excessive utilization to produce energy. (Also, of course by heating beyond the Curie point!) Good fortune. Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 00:07:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA28981; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 00:07:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 00:07:02 -0800 Message-ID: <3346179F.1186@gorge.net> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:13:03 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: conversion: reciprocal to rotational energy References: <199704050657.WAA16715@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gSsK-1.0.k47.bWWHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan: The swashplate, with multiple pistons, is often used on stirling engines. Also in Hydrostatic transmissions. The scotch yoke is a very sturdy means of translating reciprocal to rotatational energy. It also does not require the piston rod to move laterally, so it is easier to design pistons/rods--no hinges needed. Hope this helps Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 01:57:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA09926; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 01:57:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 01:57:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33462107.1A6E@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 19:23:11 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets References: <199704050657.WAA16715@mx1.eskimo.com> <33461622.384C@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E2Gfn.0.pQ2.i7YHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > > Greg: > > My opinion, for what it's worth, is that we need to change > our ideas about permanent magnets. "Everybody knows" that > PMs are made by aligning "domains." Having read everything > I can find on PMs, I still cannot force myself to accept > the idea of "domains." > > I have not found any reasonably logical explanation of the > idea that little small sections of crystal lattice can move > in relation to each other. It seems much more logical that > atoms, or molecules in a lattice could turn, within the > lattice, such that their individual dipoles align with the > imposed magnetic field. In soft iron/ferrite they can return > to their original random alignment easily, in "harder" material, > they remain aligned. > > I am aware that This does not fit the dominant paradigm, but > we must look "outside the square." If this opinion is correct, > then a PM is as permanent as the "rotation" of electrons around > the nucleus. Nevertheless, even if the above is true, the PM's > aligned atoms could become randomized, either by de-gaussing, or > by excessive utilization to produce energy. (Also, of course by > heating beyond the Curie point!) > > Good fortune. > > Tom Miller HI Tom, Here is some "Domain" info which may help your understanding. >From : "A Guide to Understanding, Specifying and Using Permanent Magnet Materials, Magnetic Materials Producers Association." -------------------------------- " About 60 years ago French physicist Piere Weiss postulated that a ferromagnetic body must be composed of some regions or domains, each of which is magnetized to saturation level, but the direction of the magnetization from domain to domain need not be parallel. Thus a magnet, when demagnetized, was only demagnetized from the viewpoint of a observer outside the material. Man made fields only serve as a control in changing the balance of potential energy within a magnet. This theory still provides the basis of our highly sophisticated body of knowledge that expalins quite satisfactorily the observed properties of ferromagnetic materials and provides an intelligent guide in the search for improved materials. The inherent atomic magnetic moment associated with such elements as iron, cobalt, nickel and many compounds is believed to originate from a net unbalance of electron spins in certain electron shells. For example, in iron in the third shell there are more electrons spinning in one direction than in the opposite direction. Having an inheriant atomic magnetic moment is a necessary but not a sufficient condition for ferromagnetism to be exhibited. Additionally, there must be cooperative interatomic exchange forces that maintain neighboring atoms parallel. Little is known of the exact nature or magnitude of these forces but observation suggests they are electrostatic. It has been pointed out that in ferromagnetic materials the ratio of interatomic distance to the diameter of the shell in which the unbalance exists is unusually laarge compared to this ratio in materials which do not exhibit ferromagnetism. The relative dimentions of the atom, domain, crystal and a measurable volume are noted below: 1 cubic cm of ferromagnetic material is composed of 10^2 crystals. 1 crystal is composed of 10^6 domains. 1 domain is composed of 10^15 atoms. The atomic exchange force also produces magnetostrictive effects and is associated with the crystalline structure of magnetic materials in a way that exhibits anisotropy or directional dependence with respect to the crystal axis. We can view the magnetic domain as a region in which atomic monents cooperate to allow common magnetic moments which may be rotated by externally applied fields. Domain size, not a fundamental constant of physics, varies widely depending on composition, purity and the state of strain of the material as well as some very important energy relationships. A boundry region exists between two domains. This boundry region and its significance was first proposed by Bloch. The Bloch wall is a transition containing many atomic planes. The 180 degree change in magnetization must occur over a considerable distance to minimize the potential energy in the wall. : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX : X D : X : X C : X : X : X : X : X B : X : X : X : X :X-A------------------------------- The demagnetized condition (A) results from a internal arrangement with mutually cancelling directions of magnetization vectors. In region (B) with low values of external field the action is primarily one of domain boundry stretching, usually around imperfections. This is a reversible process (reversible magnetization process is one in which the magnetization vectors reorient to their original position after the field (H) is removed). As the field is increased, region (C) domain boundaries break away and move through the material. The more favorably oriented regions grow at the expense of their less favorably oriented neighbours. As a result, a large increase in magnetic induction occurs. This is a irreversible process in which the magnetization vectors tend to keep their new posiions after a field (H) is removed. In region (D) at still higher values of magnetization force, the magnetization vecors are rotated against the forces of strain and crystalline anisotropy into alignment with the direction of the applied field, and saturation occurs. Removing the magnetizing force causes some relaxation; the domains rotate back to the easy direction of magnetization (a reversible process). This relaxation can be minimized by making the direction of easy magnetization coincident with the desired direction of magnetizzation. When a permanent magnet is magnetized, energy is dissipated in changing the internal potential energy balance. For a magnet to establish external field energy additional input energy is required to set up the free poles and establish the magnet's magnetomotive force. Energy is only involved in changing a magnetic field, not in maintaining the field. Hence the field associated with the parmanent magnet is independent of time unless the magnet is subjected to some form of additional energy input such as heat or demagnetization energy. The permanent magnet is a unique component in the energy conversion process. A permanent magnet in a stabilized condition is a reversible medium for energy transformation. Potential energy is stored in the magnet volume and in the external field associated with the magnet. Permanent magnets often operate over a dynamic cycle where energy is converted from electrical or mechanical form to field energy and then returned to the original form. " ------------------- -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 04:08:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA14571; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 04:08:14 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 04:08:14 -0800 (PST) From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ballast Inductors Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 12:07:51 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3345acd8.11180705@mail.netspace.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"msq3A2.0.TZ3.e2aHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 02:13:13 +1000 (EST), Alan Yates wrote: [snip] > Does this mean that I have an accelerometer or a magnetometer? >The coil is a bit big and heavy to put in my (magnetic) pipe shields so >I can't really decide yet. Any other ideas? [snip] As the Earth's mag. field is quite weak, try moving a normal bar magnet around by hand, in the neighbourhood of the box, and see if it also gives the same sort of effect (i.e. greater field -> larger effect?). Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 04:34:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA23995; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 04:34:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 04:34:09 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 07:33:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970405073259_-1503380875@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: jalotosk@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca Subject: Re : Re: Scalar Waves Simulator program Resent-Message-ID: <"HXvNc3.0.hs5.-QaHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 04/04/1997 18:06:03, you wrote : << From: jalotosk@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (John Alexander Lotoski) Jean; Good work on the program. It's very interesting. Could you point me to a reference where the equations that you use for the non-linear wave multiplication are? What kinds of materials are needed for this non-linear property? Thanx. John >> Dear John, Thanks for your comments about my Scalar Waves Simulator program, I give you more informations about my program : * For the " Standing waves ": 0 < angle < 2*Pi wave1 = Sin(angle) wave2 = Sin(angle) Sum = wave1 + wave2 * For " Multplying two counter-propagating waves " 0 < angle < 4.3 wave1 = Sin(angle) wave2 = Sin(angle ) product = wave1 * wave2 * For " SUBSTRACT rather than ADD two quadradure waves " 0 < angle < 4.3 phaseshift! = pi / 2 wave1 = Sin(angle) wave2 = Sin(angle) product1 = wave1 * wave2 wave3 = Sin(angle - phaseshift!) wave4 = Sin(angle - phaseshift!) product2 = wave3 * wave4 Sum = product1 - product2 * For " Multiplying a SECOND bi-directional pair of waves " 0 < angle < 4.3 phaseshift! = pi / 2 wave1 = Sin(angle) wave2 = Sin(angle) product1 = wave1 * wave2 wave3 = Sin(angle - phaseshift!) wave4 = Sin(angle - phaseshift!) product2 = wave3 * wave4 Sum = product1 + product2 Concerning the material, for an Scalar E-Field experiment you can use Barium Titanate ceramic (piezo), or for Scalar B-Field experiment you can use Barium Titanate ferrite or MetGlass amorphous non-linear material (Allied Signal), for instance. I hope that this informations will help you, Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 08:38:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA30699 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:37:54 -0800 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:37:54 -0800 X-Envelope-From: Puthoff@aol.com Sat Apr 5 08:37:21 1997 Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA30291; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:37:18 -0800 From: Puthoff@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA05305; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:36:43 -0500 (EST) Old-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:36:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970405113643_-1670715241@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Greg, The standard textbook description of extraction of energy from magnets assumes that as energy is extracted, the magnetic domains that were aligned to provide the initial field are realigned such that the magnet's field energy drops. From this process relatively little energy can be extracted. A more intriguing possibility, still speculative, is based on the fact that electron spin has been modelled in stochastic electrodynamics (SED) to derive from vacuum fluctuations. In this case, if one could reach in to the electron spin and apply a "friction brake" to extract energy, the vacuum fluctuations would pump the spin back up, since equilibrium with the vacuum keeps spin (in the SED model) at h-bar/2. If this speculation were to pan out, electron spin (from which magnetic energy derives) would act as a transducer of vacuum energy. To date, however, no one has demonstrated an embodiment that would do this (at least to my satisfaction) or we would be driving magnet cars. Best regards, Hal Puthoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 26 15:59:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA14927; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:40:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:40:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:40:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703262340.PAA14892@mx2.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: starchiro@aol.com (STAR CHIRO) From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Re: The Paper Doctor - symbols that could cure illness? Resent-Message-ID: <"n7vEH.0.9f3.XFREp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I have more information on this subject! Read more about it on my WANTED!-page. exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 15:05:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17811; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 15:04:41 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 15:04:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 15:58:35 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: Tom Miller Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets In-Reply-To: <33461622.384C@gorge.net> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RBbgA1.0.9M4.0gjHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > My opinion, for what it's worth, is that we need to change > our ideas about permanent magnets. "Everybody knows" that > PMs are made by aligning "domains." Having read everything > I can find on PMs, I still cannot force myself to accept > the idea of "domains." I agree wholeheartedly! A writer that I enjoy reading, Robert Anton Wilson, claims that it takes an average of 60 years for a really new concept to catch on. Perhaps this is why most of the concepts discussed in this list would be considered "crazy" by most people. > I have not found any reasonably logical explanation of the > idea that little small sections of crystal lattice can move > in relation to each other. It seems much more logical that > atoms, or molecules in a lattice could turn, within the > lattice, such that their individual dipoles align with the > imposed magnetic field. In soft iron/ferrite they can return > to their original random alignment easily, in "harder" material, > they remain aligned. Your theory reminds me, to some degree, of how memory metals work. But instead of the entire molecule moving and changeing, just the fields change. Perhaps there *may* be a connection? John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 15:11:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18208; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 15:09:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 15:09:34 -0800 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 16:03:37 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: Tom Miller Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: conversion: reciprocal to rotational energy In-Reply-To: <3346179F.1186@gorge.net> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"L2_Mc1.0.ZQ4.akjHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Dan: > > The swashplate, with multiple pistons, is often used on > stirling engines. Also in Hydrostatic transmissions. > > The scotch yoke is a very sturdy means of translating > reciprocal to rotatational energy. It also does not > require the piston rod to move laterally, so it is > easier to design pistons/rods--no hinges needed. You know, this discussion reminds me of a book on Nikola Tesla's "Earthquake Machine". It's completely linear, needs as little as 5 lbs of compressed air, and every line of force intersects a wire. Something smaller than a loaf of bread can produce 110 volts, and something like 986 watts. As well, since no translation between linear and circular motions is done, very little energy is wasted. If anyone is interested in reading this book, I'll be happy to dig up the title and authors. I believe that detailed plans were even included. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 18:37:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA28589; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:37:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:37:05 -0800 Message-ID: <33470BC6.66F4@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 12:04:46 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Simple OU Device.] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7B497C254B55" Resent-Message-ID: <"wh_Qw.0.c-6.GnmHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7B497C254B55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile --------------7B497C254B55 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3346F46B.139E@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 10:25:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Simple OU Device. References: <199704051624.IAA29844@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Randall wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > >> Is your invention similar to the rotary magnetic device USA patent > >> 4,443,776? Do you think that unit would self rotate? > > > >I have simulated the idea in this patent (4,443,776) and can't see how > >it can work. The magnets will generate lobes of flux from their faces > >and edges. These lobes are conservative and have flux vectors which > >will not support rotation. > > > >> I've built 5,594,289 and 5,304,881 with no self-rotation or torque. > > > >I have also simulated these patents and would agree with you. > > > >> Best Regards, > >> Michael Randall > > > >Hi Michael, > > > >My invention is NOT like any of these. > > > >Seems the US patent office allows junk patents, which in the real world > >don't work. Oh well, guess it keeps people employed and attorneys in > >nice life styles. > > > >-- > >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au > >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > > 61 18 833 461 Mobile > > Hi Greg, > > Thanks for info. It is nice to have a computer software program to test the > magnetic fields of the arranged magnets before actually building the model. > I'll hold off on building patent 4,443,776 and await for info on your > invention model. > > Did you also test your model on the computer program before building it? If > so did the software make the correct predictions? My simulator only does 2d modeling. I built the first model without simulation, somehow I just knew now to build it. The second unit where I tried to close the loop was built with the help of the simulator and it didn't work. I am now doing heavy simulations to understand why the first unit works (it still does) and the second doesn't. > Does your model use standard magnetics or will we need to manufacture > special magnetic shapes? Common garden variety stuff. > Good Fortune, > Michael Randall > > BTW keep up the posts on magnetic theory. I only have limited reading info > on magnetic theories. Will your model rewrite the books or does it match > current theory? Hi Michael, As I see it, there are no problems with current theory. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile --------------7B497C254B55-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 18:58:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01517; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:58:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:58:01 -0800 Message-ID: <334710AB.6D4@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 12:25:39 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets References: <199704051529.HAA18856@mx1.eskimo.com> <3346BA90.1A9C@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FaNvM3.0.cN.u4nHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > > Greg: > > My education and knowledge base is not sufficient for me to > attempt to defend this "idea" adequately before serious scientists. > > My *opinion* is not derived from superior knowledge, but from > basic logic. > > 1. Iron cores of transformers, etc. are subject to complete > reversal of the magnetic fields induced in them 50-60 times > per second for decades. Is it reasonable to assume that "domains" > consisting of 10^15 atoms could rotate 180 degrees, 120 times per > second, without common friction at the Bloch walls causing a > rapid meltdown? Or, is friction magically absent in this > particular case? As I understand it, we are talking about rotation a group of atoms and I would suspect friction is not involved. > 2. In another discussion site (which I frequent) a question was > raised: "What caused the magnetization of lodestone?" No one has > come up with anything like a reasonable answer. If permanent > magnetism is induced by a High powered magnetic field, to > align the domains, where did this powerful magnetic field > come from?? If, on the other hand, the atoms/molecules of > magnetite were in solution, they could be aligned by a relatively > small magnetic field, assuming that field held true while the > solution hardened. My daughter is currently doing first year geology at Adelaide University and has shown me several examples of local magnetization. Seems as certain rocks go through a molten phase, their internal crystaline structure is able to align with the earth's field. Part the the study of geology uses this effect to study changes in the earth's magnetic field over time. > 3. As to whether electrons "spin around" the nucleus; or > if they "spin" around their own axis, I don't have any idea. > BUT > Assuming that both nuclei and electrons "spin," and that > these spins somehow cause magnetic fields, is it not > reasonable that these spins can be aligned to > an external field (even within their lattice) more easily > than can be "domains" of 10^15 atoms? In the info I posted earlier, it was stated that the cause of the alignment of atoms into domains was uncertain. Suggest you chase up info on the study of domains in thin strips of ferromagnetic material. With this material, the domains were visible and were the basis of the development of "Bubble Memory" systems. > Is it reasonable to assume that atoms in a crystal lattice > are not free to align with an external magnetic field, but that > much larger "domains" can align easily? Current theory says that the crystal is larger. When the crystals move they cause dimentional changes in the material which can be measured. By relating the field strength at which physical change occurs to the magnetic induction produced, it is shown that crystal movement only occurs around saturation. I therefore seems logical to assume that domain rotation and Bloch wall movement is responsible for most of the induction below saturation. > I know this isn't any kind of proof, but maybe it will > stimulate some "outside the square" thinking. > > Tom Miller Hi Tom, Hope the above is useful. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 19:57:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA19667; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:56:58 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:56:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704060356.WAA03878@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Science Page To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 22:56:08 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"b52wm2.0.Bp4.7ynHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, I used to be in this list from my old account (ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu). I would like to let anyone who remembers me know I'm back and tell everyone about a great science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/science/science.html Thanks! -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 19:58:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA22186; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:57:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:57:59 -0800 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704060357.WAA04164@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Gravity Field/Rotations per Min To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 22:57:21 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"I03bh.0.UQ5.6znHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Question: How fast must I spin a ball, so that an object inside of it experiences the same gravity field as it would on earth. This is for my design of a rotating space station. Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 20:05:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA23469; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:05:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:05:41 -0800 Message-ID: <33471317.3041@nternet.net> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 22:05:59 -0500 From: David Skues Reply-To: skuesme@nternet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Vacuum tubes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RJGKN1.0.ck5.K4oHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Does anybody have any spare vacuum tubes, either diode, or triode (however pentode will work) Please respond especially if you can tell me where I can get my grubbies on some tubes. I have some experiments I want to verify, but I need tubes to conduct the experiments with. Thank you. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 20:08:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA21411; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:08:06 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:08:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704060407.XAA05451@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: NOW To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 23:07:17 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"5g4qU3.0.OE5.Z6oHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry for the shouting title, but this is improtaint. I need to know ever site available about Van De Graaff generators. Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 5 20:45:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA30275 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:45:14 -0800 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:45:14 -0800 X-Envelope-From: rgd872@leonard.anu.edu.au Sat Apr 5 20:45:10 1997 Received: from anugpo.anu.edu.au (anugpo.anu.edu.au [150.203.2.6]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA30238 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:45:07 -0800 Received: from leonard.anu.edu.au (rgd872@leonard.anu.edu.au [150.203.2.15]) by anugpo.anu.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14505 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:45:04 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (rgd872@localhost) by leonard.anu.edu.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA21353 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:45:02 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: leonard.anu.edu.au: rgd872 owned process doing -bs Old-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:45:02 +1000 (EST) From: Rodney Davies To: science Subject: Re: Gravity Field/Rotations per Min In-Reply-To: <199704060357.WAA04164@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hi Andrew, On Sat, 5 Apr 1997, Science wig. sig. wrote: > Question: > > How fast must I spin a ball, so that an object inside of it experiences > the same gravity field as it would on earth. This is for my design of a > rotating space station. You need to make it spin such that the acceleration due to the centripetal force is around 9.81m/s^2. F = mv^2 ---- r F = ma = 9.81m/s^2 a = F --- m by substitution, a = v^2 --- r so then it depends on the radius of the circular object and the velocity, to make an acceleration of 9.81 Hope this helps. Have fun! Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 00:05:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA07191; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:05:02 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:05:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33475896.31B8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 17:32:30 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"daezk2.0.Am1.garHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: > > Some private observations about your questions:- > > Big snip < > Hi Stuart, My thoughts as well. Your questions have real meaning, but as your post was private, I haven't passed them on, but the concerns I believe I should share with all. Every time I do a test, I see kinetic energy increasing. I see a magnet doing real work. I know the energy has to come from somewhere. I am concerned about the source and possible other effects the utilization of this energy source will have. I know we live in a universe which offers no free lunches. Everything has a cost. I am concerned that we MUST understand the cost before we are asked to pay the price. I have no desire to unleash another dirty energy source as we are now lumbered with by the nuclear power industry. We must all understand that energy will never be free and we as searchers of new energy sources have a real duty to fully understand what we may be getting into. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 04:56:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA15669; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 04:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 04:55:47 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 11:55:29 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3348e8a5.4623766@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <3345BD73.116F@microtronics.com.au> In-Reply-To: <3345BD73.116F@microtronics.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tCC4r.0.jq3._yuHp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 05 Apr 1997 12:18:19 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] >What I would ask you to think and comment about is the effect on the >energy source of a permanent magnet (IE the aligned spinning iron atom's >electrons), if we could get a magnet to deliver real work. > >Would the electrons of the iron atoms alter their energy levels? > >Would they slow down? > >Would they fall to a lower shell? > >Would the iron atom undergo a chemical / nuclear change if we could >extract energy from the spinning electrons? > >How much energy would be available in 1 cm^3 of magnetised iron before >the magnet would suffer some internal chemical / nuclear change? > >I am sure you understand my thoughts here. [snip] If Mills' Hydrino theory is correct, then you may be on to something. After all, if a hydrogen atom can have sub-shells, then so can all other atoms, including those of iron. Furthermore, Mills uses a catalyst to extract energy through collisions. But a collision is no more than an interaction between the electrical and magnetic fields of the electrons of atoms. So in a more general sense, it may also be possible to induce electrons to drop to subshells by passing their energy to a larger "all encompassing" field, rather than the small localised field of nearby atoms. If this is what you are doing, then in theory you could extract hundreds of keV from an individual atom, producing a shrunken atom as a result. Two things could happen to such atoms. They either stay "shrunk", and the build up of shrunken atoms eventually destroys the chemical structure of the magnet, or through collisions with other thermal atoms they regain their lost energy (cooling the magnet in the process). It should be pointed out that this latter possibility is very small, due to the size of the energy "steps" to the sub levels, compared to the average energy of thermal atoms (tens of eV's compared to milli-eVs of thermal energy). IOW only very few atoms at the very tail end of the Boltzman distribution would have the requisite energy. The bottom line is that most of them would stay shrunken. Depending on how many electrons drop to subshells, and how far "down" they drop, the energy produced would vary from 10 to 1000000 times normal chemical energy. Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 06:39:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA13080; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 06:39:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 06:39:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3347A70D.7AE8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 23:07:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2kFyt.0.DC3.LUwHp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just a short progress report. I have built another demo / one shot unit based on the technology I used to build the closed loop unit. It doesn't work. I am doing a lot of QField sims to understand why. I very stronghy believe that failure teaches you more that success. It shows you very clearly that you didn't know as much as you thought. Like all effects, you need to get many things just so right. Get one wrong and you are dead. I am now building another demo / one shot unit based on the technology I intend to use in the closed loop unit. Will report back on further progress. Bye for now. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 06:40:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA13425 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 06:40:33 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 06:40:33 -0700 X-Envelope-From: skuesme@nternet.net Sun Apr 6 06:40:31 1997 Received: from NS.NTERnet.net (root@mail.NTERnet.net [206.154.20.3]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA13312 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 06:40:27 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (pp237.NTERnet.net [206.154.20.237]) by NS.NTERnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00579 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 10:05:26 -0400 Message-ID: <33478B76.33FD@nternet.net> Old-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 07:39:34 -0400 From: David Skues Reply-To: skuesme@nternet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NOW References: <199704060407.XAA05451@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5FED41D04488" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5FED41D04488 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Science wig. sig. wrote: > > Sorry for the shouting title, but this is improtaint. I need to know ever > site available about Van De Graaff generators. > > Andrew -- > +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ > | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | > | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | | > | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | > | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | > | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | > | | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Good morning Andrew, I'm exploring your site. It's a pleasure. The ionizer prices are the best I've found. They ar usually $50 more. STATIC ELECTRIC INFORMATION IS AT ESKIMO.COM AND MEMBERS@AOL.COM/JRNAUDIN just look around my bookmarks in the zcience folder, the magnet motor folders, and especially the page about the Basic Stamp Computer. He has real nice info on statics. Good luck Joe Skues --------------5FED41D04488 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; name="BM_JOE.HTM" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BM_JOE.HTM" Content-Base: "file:///C|/NETSCAPE/BM_JOE.HTM" David Skues's Bookmarks

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GR= AVITY DEVICE - device.txt [1/1] (fwd)
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--------------5FED41D04488-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 15:36:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA12640; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <334824B0.47E1@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:03:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: <199704062156.HAA23697@orca.microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KKiLH2.0.H53.8L2Ip"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Tammetta wrote: > > Hello Greg, > > I'm an EE and have been on the free energy list for about 2 years > I have been following your posts since you have been here... and > the quantity and quality of your posts give much credibilty to > your "Simple OU Device"......... I believe you. Thanks, I know how fragile trust is. The single shot device really does work. It shows a definate increase in kinetic energy. Score board so far : First unit ....... single shot ...................... works. This unit was built in 10 minutes from a idea that justed popped into my head as I sipped a glass of a very smooth South Australian Port. Second unit ...... close the loop ................... failed. This unit was built too quickly. Quality of research was not important. I thought I knew what I was doing. Wrong. Third unit ....... single shot ...................... failed. This unit was built using the above closed loop ideas and verified the construction method used was wrong. I was expecting this unit to fail. Forth unit ....... single shot ...................... works. This unit was build based on the construction method I will use in the next closed loop unit. I have a much better understanding of the effect now. > Anyways, > About your new device. > > I have always though that PM's can be used alone to make a motor and > have experimented with several configurations and variations of... > Hammel's devices, Stefan's PM Square and the Perigrus (sp?) wheel. > variations or PM Square may have potential > Perigrus is conservative and > Hammel may be onto something with the fluttering effect. I don't think so. I have built several spinners. Nice toy but nothing more. The hand movement supplies the energy. > I have asked myself the same questions about PMs in the past..... Can > energy be extracted, used without reducing the strength PM.... > > But had the most success with a linear version that consisted of 5 > PM stator segments in with iron pieces to contain unwanted magnetic > flux. I was able to produce a surprising constant linear > acceleration of a roll of magnets using these PM stators. It only > worked with a particular configuration or iron and PMs. It seemed > more that conservative to me.... but I was never EASILY to "close > the loop"... I have several designs to do so (rotational and > bi-linear) but have not have the time or materials to build them. I have build, simulated and test several versions of the Tomi device. I am 99% sure they are not OU. > Is this remotely similar to your "Simple OU Device"? NO. > Or does your device use any batteries, coils , electronics or > exotic metals? NO. > I decided NOT to base my designs on these parts > but only use them for enhancing results. > > I can elaborate on anything I mentioned above it you like. > > If you reply to me with anymore detials of you device, you have my > word I will keep it confidential. but i understand if you don't. > > Good luck Greg, closing the loop... and I hope you can share it with > the rest of us on the list soon. > > You can forward this or parts of this to the list if you like. > > Ben Tammetta, > ben@tammetta.com > > ###################### > # Ben Tammetta # > # ben@clubelite.com # > ###################### -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 15:38:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA13265; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:38:33 -0700 Message-Id: <9704062238.AA16339@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: "Hubbard Coil" mailings Resent-Message-ID: <"slkfi2.0.8F3.eN2Ip"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! Those of you who have asked me for info about the Hubbard Coil...I will be sending it out Tuesday, April 8. Sorry for the delay! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 18:55:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA08011; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 18:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 18:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33480DB8.604B@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 20:55:20 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnets & Electric Magnets References: <33475896.31B8@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v2vaw.0.4z1.BG5Ip"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Stuart Rae wrote: > > > > Some private observations about your questions:- > > > > Big snip < > > > Hi Stuart, > > My thoughts as well. Your questions have real meaning, but as your post > was private, I haven't passed them on, but the concerns I believe I > should share with all. > > Every time I do a test, I see kinetic energy increasing. I see a magnet > doing real work. I know the energy has to come from somewhere. I am > concerned about the source and possible other effects the utilization of > this energy source will have. > > I know we live in a universe which offers no free lunches. Everything > has a cost. I am concerned that we MUST understand the cost before we > are asked to pay the price. I have no desire to unleash another dirty > energy source as we are now lumbered with by the nuclear power industry. > > We must all understand that energy will never be free and we as > searchers of new energy sources have a real duty to fully understand > what we may be getting into. Bravo Greg! Too many think that 'free energy' devices must automatically be the safest of all possible energy sources, and be definition are 'clean'. Yet without exception, eacn more advanced energy source has come with an ever higher cost. We have always been slow to understand the true costs of our energy sources, often not until after they are in wide use. Clearly new sources of energy, perhaps not yet fully understood sources, may indeed come with costs we also do not fully understand yet. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 21:07:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA06526; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:06:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:06:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3348717F.4602@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 13:31:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"46GL.0.jb1.EB7Ip"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Have just done a series of test in an attempt to measure the work done by the single shot demo unit. Here is what I got : 150 ergs (+-20%) per pass. As I have done about 700 passes to date (+-50), I have used around 105,000 ergs or 0.01 joules of energy so far. Not much. But then many would say even this is not possible. The current single shot unit (my 4th unit) comes in around 21,500 ergs / pass. I plan to do a lot of testing on this unit BEFORE I build the 5th unit (closed loop). I don't want to go through the agony of the failure which happened on the second unit (first closed loop unit). It was NOT a good day! I do want to close the loop as quite as all of you, but I must try and do this right. For all of us. Bye for now. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 21:07:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA06596; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:06:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:06:50 -0700 Message-ID: <33487248.1403@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 13:34:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: neotech@xbn.shore.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n50NP3.0.lc1.NB7Ip"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Have just done a series of test in an attempt to measure the work done by the single shot demo unit. Here is what I got : 150 ergs (+-20%) per pass. As I have done about 700 passes to date (+-50), I have used around 105,000 ergs or 0.01 joules of energy so far. Not much. But then many would say even this is not possible. The current single shot unit (my 4th unit) comes in around 21,500 ergs / pass. I plan to do a lot of testing on this unit BEFORE I build the 5th unit (closed loop). I don't want to go through the agony of the failure which happened on the second unit (first closed loop unit). It was NOT a good day! I do want to close the loop as quick as all of you, but I must try and do this right. For all of us. Bye for now. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 6 23:59:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA30312; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 23:59:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 23:59:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970407025847.006eb910@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: bfeather@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 02:58:50 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Rev. Brown Feather" Subject: Re: conversion: reciprocal to rotational energy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"A5kh-3.0.XP7.-i9Ip"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:03 PM 4/5/97 -0700, you wrote: >You know, this discussion reminds me of a book on Nikola Tesla's >"Earthquake Machine". It's completely linear, needs as little as 5 lbs of >compressed air, and every line of force intersects a wire. Something >smaller than a loaf of bread can produce 110 volts, and something like 986 >watts. As well, since no translation between linear and circular motions >is done, very little energy is wasted. If anyone is interested in reading >this book, I'll be happy to dig up the title and authors. I believe that >detailed plans were even included. I'm interested! > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 01:51:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA12517; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Robin Gilham To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Hubbard coil Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:50:31 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 23 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"k824A1.0.U33.yLBIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry about the delay snailmail address Robin Gilham 23 Greensleeves Eversdal Durbanville 7550 South Africa >---------- >From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com[SMTP:fepps@mail1.halcyon.com] >Sent: Monday, March 31, 1997 9:59 AM >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Hubbard coil > >Hi Dan, Jean-Louis, and Byrun: > > Send me your snailmail addresses so I can start the process of sending >you the info about the Hubble coil. If you get it to me this week I'll mail >it next weekend, along with some diagrams of my updated versions. > Coiling ever upwards, > Fred > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 01:51:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA12474; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Robin Gilham To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Hubbard coil Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:48:38 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 82 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"4lJ4N2.0.f23.qLBIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would not mind giving it a try. Sorry that I'm only replying now been out of the city for a while >---------- >From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com[SMTP:fepps@mail1.halcyon.com] >Sent: Monday, March 31, 1997 5:58 AM >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Hubbard coil > >Hi Maxwell and all, > > Here's a little of the later history of Alfred Hubbard. He was sixteen >years old at the time he invented his device. Being an easily swayed >teenager, he sold a 75% share of it to a group in Pittsburgh. Basically his >involvement with it ended there. Later he became involved in a rum-running >venture and was arrested for this along with a local bootlegger in the >Prohibition period here in the states when booze was illegal. He turned >state's evidence and was freed. Later he himself became a successful >detective specializing in ferreting out bootleggers. Then he became a >bootlegger again and eventually served two years in prison. He was lost in >the mists of history after that. >(By the way, there is no indication of fraud in his Coil activities). > Although Paul Brown has made a good case for the Hubbard coil as a >resonant circuit fed by a radioactive source, there is a great disparity >between the energy emitted by radium and the apparent power output of the >Hubbard device. > In about 1982 a group in Stockholm called the Institute for Ecological >Technique made a working Hubbard coil that did not include radium, based on >the plans in Joseph Cater's book, "Earth Energy". Here is their description >of the device: > [The device consists of a single central primary and eight secondaries >around it all wound on iron cores] > "The center is adjusted for resonance by means of [a] condenser, and the >triggering input energy is fed into the circuit in series with the center >coil and condenser. The 8 smaller coils are connected in series and >adjusted for the same resonance frequency by means of [another] condenser. >[These give the output] > The device has been rebuilt in Stockholm by an electronic engineer at the >Institute of Ecological Technique, and he found that the device delivered an >output energy of 3 watts when triggered with an input energy of 1 watt..." > There appears to be some differences between Cater's drawing and the >device the Swedes built. If anybody else has any more info I would like to >hear it too. > A short theory break: my guess is that this device is a version of the >parametric transformer idea I've been pushing for a while. Obviously if the >device used standard transformer induction it couldn't be overunity. If, on >the other hand, the central coil mostly affects the inductance of the >exterior coils rather than transferring energy to them then a current would >flow in them without much power loss in the central coil. > Here's a simple device that should demonstrate the same principle: in the >center of a ferrite rod is wound a primary. On each side of the primary are >wound secondaries that are in series with each other. THE SECONDARIES ARE >WOUND IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS so the two secondaries have cancelling >magnetic fields, like a spreadout bifilar coil. Both the primary and >secondaries are part of separate tank circuits, with the secondary circuit >also including a load. > What happens when the primary tank is energized? The varying magnetic >field intensity in the ferrite changes its permeability, which changes the >inductance of the secondaries AS SEEN FROM THE SECONDARY TANK CIRCUIT. This >changing inductance causes a current to form by parametric excitation, which >powers the load. >On the other hand, AS SEEN FROM THE PRIMARY, the magnetic fields of the >secondaries cancel out and there's no back EMF opposition to the flow of >energy in the primary. The primary sees the situation as a loadless >transformer. > To those who might object that the inductance of the secondary (seen from >the output tank circuit) doesn't change because the two parts have no >self-inductance as a unit, refer to the "prior art" of transductors, >arrangements that control an AC signal with a DC current. In transductors >the AC winding is wound in opposite directions on the outside legs of an E >core so the AC signal's magnetic field cancels and doesn't affect the >control winding. Obviously the control winding does affect the AC winding-- >that's what it's supposed to do! > So basically you have electromagnetic violation of Newton's third law- an >action that doesn't engender a reaction (actually two equal reactions that >cancel out). Who wants to build a Hubbard type coil? Write me if you want >more references or information. > Fred > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 04:36:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA21420; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 04:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 04:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3348DB4C.225B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 21:02:28 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vw2dy3.0.XE5.fmDIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > Have just done a series of test in an attempt to measure the work done > > by the single shot demo unit. > > What path does it take through the unit? Straight line? If the > trajectory is at all curved, why not just arrange a *very* crude > loop-closer such as a cardboard disk with the "bullet" taped to the rim? > Or does the "bullet" have to pass through a closed ring? Not curved. > One way to avoid dissapointment: work under the assumption that it is a > totally conventional effect, and that you've just not discovered your > mistake. Seriously. See below. I have assumed I am in error ever since I first thought up the device. Even now I try very hard to fully understand what is going on and always suspect that in the next thought I will discover my error. > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 > EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ > Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page > > http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/rules1.txt > RULES FOR UNCONVENTIONAL RESEARCH (c)1997 William Beaty > > My first law of unconventional research: if it violates conventional > physics, it is almost definitely a mistake. I fully agree with you. Been there done that many times. But if magnets can be seen to be a energy source then there is no violation of conventional physics. The only thing not understood may be where this energy is coming from. > Seriously! Even though I'm involved with fringe science, I intentionally > maintain this 'skeptic' belief for many reasons. If I let myself start > *knowing* that I've found an anomaly, I will stop trying to double-check > the results, stop trying to think up conventional explanations, stop > trying to look for mistakes, stop looking for subtle ways I've fooled > myself. I've seen how easy it is for people to talk themselves into > things. I want to avoid these traps. Second, if I keep strongly > suspecting an error, I will resist the temptation to let my ego get the > better of me. I know the extent and the power of my ego, and that > delusions of grandeur are very easy to fall into. Therefor, in my saner > momements I set up my beliefs as traps to trip up my future ego trips. > Another: if I "know" that the discovery is a mistake, I will force the > discovery itself to convince me otherwise. No opinions and self-delusion, > just the real world demonstrating its realness. Another: if I present it > to others as an earthshaking discovery, they will later tend to defend > this viewpoint and not help prove out the discovery. But if I present it > as "find my mistake", then they might actually discover a conventional > explanation I've overlooked. I could not agree more. These are my thoughts. > Second rule: if it is a real anomaly, I might kill it. > > If it's a small piece of a new field of science, then there is a *very* > large chance that I won't understand what's causing it. I may > accidentally extinguish it and never get it back again. Don't take apart > the original invention! Don't even move it to another location. Just > moving your arm a bit wrong might eliminate the conditions which allowed > success! Build several copies and get them working before allowing > yourself to feel safe. That's what I thought when my second unit (closed loop unit) didn't work. I sure was relieved when I RECONSTRUCTED my first unit and it worked. It now sits, still working, not to be touched. > Third rule: publicize it and let others help me find my mistake. That has always been my path. I find it very hard not to talk to others about this. > This rule is a natural consequence of rule one: if I intentionally > maintain the conviction that there is a mistake somewhere, wide publicity > is the fastest way to get help in finding it. I realize that this isn't > an option outside the US. If I publicize a discovery here, I have a year > to decide to patent it or no. If in another country, I'd have to first > decide to put my invention into the public domain. Myself, I might do > this anyway, because of Rule Four. I WILL publish full details whatever happens. My patent attorney has asked me for a closed loop unit before he will file. I have know him for many years and I respect his opinion. In fact it was he who got me into this OU area. His staff PHD physicist wouldn't give it more than a passing glance. He just gave me a copy of the Sci Amer Perpertual Motion Machine article and said that this paper proved that my device could not work. When he saw the kinetic energy gain, his eyebrows raised and he sotfened somewhat. He left the meeting saying "Close the loop". My suggestion that the first law was not being voilated if you assumed a magnet could do work really cooled him down. > Fourth rule: figure out what other o/u inventors did, then do the > opposite! What OU invetors. Where are the real devices? Many patents I have studied will not work. Seems you can patent almost any wild idea in the US. > Inventors over and over have announced o/u discoveries, yet where are > they now? What did Pons and Fleichman do wrong? Hendershot? Hubbard? > There seem to be guaranteed routes to failure. Secrecy is one. Attempts > to sell the idea to governments or giant corporations is another. Do > research, discover them, then avoid them. > > Fifth: a failed o/u device often makes a great toy. I have already begun to research that path. Any contacts? > Whatever fooled me into thinking I had a great discovery, well, the same > thing can befuddle others, and act as entertainment. If Pat Harris of the > "TOMI" device had given weight to this concept, his rollercoaster device > might now be in all the stores as an "impossible" science toy. And if a > real anomaly gets ignored by the mainstream, designing a toy is a great > way to penetrate the barriers of disbelief. I agree. > Sixth: spend all your effort making an airtight demo. > > A tiny spinner which keeps turning, or better yet a light bulb which runs > for weeks, beats any number of electric cars or huge multi-kilowatt > blackboxes hands down. Don't try to build a flying saucer, try to build a > soup-can which unexplainedly loses 1% of its weight, and which anyone can > duplicate. If possible, make it so simple that you could sell it as a kit > to school kids. Make it so obvious that your grandmother could follow the > instructions and make a successful replica. If the goal is to blow away > the objections of the skeptics, then the device should clearly demonstrate > the new principle in ways which cannot be explained away. Doing any more > than this will just obscure the principle. And doing less than this will > almost guarantee that your discovery gets ignored as being yet another > crackpot claim. This is my current objective. My wife and daughter understand why it works. They had no problems handling the concept that magnets could provide work. My current single shot unit is being modified and simulated all the time. Before I close the loop this time, I will have a very good understanding of the characteristics of this thing. The unit will present like a perpetual mobile with one moving part. There will be no doubt what it is doing or how it works! The closed loop unit will be able to be duplicated by most people. I may offer kits. The only question will be the enegry source. I do wish some of our vortexian members would take the question of the source of the magnets field doing work and what would be the effect on the chemical / atomic structure of the magnet to heart. Or is it that we all lurk here, but don't really believe what we seek is possible. Sort of a morbid curiosity, I quess. But I am getting carried away, I haven't yet closed the loop. > Under Construction... Still working. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 04:44:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA24676; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 04:44:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 04:44:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3348DE0F.54AF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 21:14:15 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Newman-l Subject: Re: Simple OU Device (Now not so simple)! References: <9704070214001058@emachine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VPpAx2.0.P16.ZuDIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Newman-l wrote: > > From: karruth@bbs2.rmrc.net (Karl Johnson) > Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 11:01:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: Simple OU Device (Now not so simple)! > > > I have just completed a copy of the original unit. I duplicates the > > effect and will be stored by my patent attorney in a safe location > > unknown to me.-------- > Greg: > > Congratulations on being concerned with security, but might you be wiser > to take security precautions without telling the world exactly what they > are? Your patent attorney is human, and you have just painted a giant > bullseye on his back. I don't really believe in the "X Files", nor in evil agents assigned to take me out. I do however believe in Murphy and have secured the info in many places. Our world wide Internet, Fax and Letter network is very effective in moving data to many places even Mulder and Scully coulnd't find. So ALL you evil agents, you are wasting your time and bullets. > May I suggest that the two of you devise an additional step, and that > you not talk about it. > > Good Luck. We (the world) need you to succeed. > Karl C. Johnson HI Karl, Thanks, but don't get so heavy. I have enough problems sleeping already. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 05:29:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA29887; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 05:29:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 05:29:40 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 07:32:01 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Mechanical Energy Resent-Message-ID: <"La1vi.0.qI7.oYEIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg wrote: >We seem to have a very good understanding that magnetic fields are not a >energy source in themselves and can only convert or transmit energy. Magnetic fields represent very real, kinetic energy ... just as moving water represents a harnessable, kinetic flow (source?) of energy. Best regards, Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 06:27:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA04724; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 06:27:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 06:27:08 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:29:00 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Voltage Resent-Message-ID: <"_IMHE3.0.j91.hOFIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg wrote, >It not the energy required to cause domain alignment that we are >interested in. Its the energy source which generates the domain's field >that is the key. With respect to your first sentence: it is the VOLTAGE -- not the current -- which causes such domain alignment and subsequent formation of the kinetic magnetic fields whose source is the atoms (of the material of the conductor) aligned by the VOLTAGE. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a physical existence in that intermediate space." --- MICHAEL FARADAY From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 08:28:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA01784; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:28:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:28:31 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:28:20 -0400 (EDT) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mechanical Energy (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZvX8W2.0.mR.UAHIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:27:35 -0400 (EDT) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mechanical Energy On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Evan Soule wrote: > Greg wrote: > >We seem to have a very good understanding that magnetic fields are not a > >energy source in themselves and can only convert or transmit energy. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Magnetic fields represent very real, kinetic energy ... just as moving > water represents a harnessable, kinetic flow (source?) of energy. > > Evan Soule' Moving water is harnessable, but it is not the main source of energy in itself. The harnessable energy is directly a result of the conversation of gravitational potential. (eg: you can always recycle the flowing tide with no (theoretical) loss of water) Water is harnessable as a direct energy source only if we are talking with respect to chemical and atomic situations (in which case anything is potentially harnessable) (exothermic and nuclear rx's). If you use this analogy of water and magnets you would also be suggesting that magnets are only the transmitter of energy (which is coming from another source). Is this the case? John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 08:57:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA07048; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:57:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:57:45 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:00:04 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Source of Energy Resent-Message-ID: <"yVMZu3.0.mj1.ubHIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I fully agree with you. Been there done that many times. But if >magnets can be seen to be a energy source then there is no violation of >conventional physics. The only thing not understood may be where this >energy is coming from. Magnets are indeed an energy source. And the source is: the GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a physical existence in that intermediate space." --- MICHAEL FARADAY From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 09:35:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA16137; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:35:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:35:52 -0700 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 09:35:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: RE: Hubbard coil Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"Fnif33.0.-x3.d9IIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Fred; I have a friend with a coil winding business and I would like to try my hand at the Hubbard coil. If you would send me you additional info I would be greatful. If you need to cover any photocopy or mailing costs then I will of course. Thanks in advance. Byrun Fox. 5-13 K de K Court New Westminster, B.C., V3M 6B6 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 09:47:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA04724; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 06:27:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 06:27:08 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:29:00 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Voltage Resent-Message-ID: <"_IMHE3.0.j91.hOFIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg wrote, >It not the energy required to cause domain alignment that we are >interested in. Its the energy source which generates the domain's field >that is the key. With respect to your first sentence: it is the VOLTAGE -- not the current -- which causes such domain alignment and subsequent formation of the kinetic magnetic fields whose source is the atoms (of the material of the conductor) aligned by the VOLTAGE. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a physical existence in that intermediate space." --- MICHAEL FARADAY From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 09:54:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA25799; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:56:29 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Mechanical Energy (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"6lGj22.0.wI6.HRIIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Evan Soule wrote: > >> Greg wrote: >> >We seem to have a very good understanding that magnetic fields are not a >> >energy source in themselves and can only convert or transmit energy. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Magnetic fields represent very real, kinetic energy ... just as moving >> water represents a harnessable, kinetic flow (source?) of energy. >> >> Evan Soule' > snip-- > If you use this analogy of water and magnets you would also be >suggesting that magnets are only the transmitter of energy (which is >coming from another source). Is this the case? > > John Dear John, Thanks for your comments. This is why I placed the word "source" with an "?" at the end, and in parentheses, as above. The analogy to "moving water" is a loose analogy which I utilized because, by analogy, it suggests the nature of the moving gyroscopic particles which comprise the magnetic fields about a magnet. While I would say that the mechanical agent (source?) causing the paddlewheel to move _is_ the moving water, one could look deeper and state that a more fundamental cause (source?) of the moving water is gravitation. I suppose that the utilization of the word "source" is related to the context of its discussion. To say that a magnet is the "source" of the field around it is true in one 'macro' sense....and looking deeper, one might ask, "What is the 'source' of the magnet's field?" In this case, one could answer, "The gyroscopic particle(s)." But one could also ask, what is the "source" of the gyroscopic particle(s) which comprise the magnetic field? One could then answer, the atoms from which the gyroscopic particle(s) emanate(s). Take a copper conductor: it is obviously comprised of copper atoms. When voltage causes these copper atoms to align with one another, it thereby causes them to release their *pre-existing* gyroscopic particles which create a magnetic field (consisting of such gyroscopic particles) about the conductor. But these gyroscopic particle are _already_ (*perpetually*) individually spinning at C and moving at C inside their respective atoms. By applying voltage, one simply causes this pre-existing mechanical energy (gyroscopic particles) to expand beyond the individual 'boundaries' of their respective atoms to create the general magnetic field about the conductor. For me, here's the real irony: there are those (usually speaking in a macroscopic sense with respect to entropic systems) who may say that "perpetual motion" is impossible. And ironically, at the 'microscopic' (gyroscopic particle) level, the "perpetual *mechanical* motion" of these gyroscopic particles represents the mechanical essence of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 10:30:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA00953; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:28:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704071728.MAA03666@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mechanical Energy (fwd) Cc: josephnewman@earthlink.net Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"KH94u.0.kE.GyIIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Evan Soule wrote: >> [snip] > >For me, here's the real irony: there are those (usually speaking in a >macroscopic sense with respect to entropic systems) who may say that >"perpetual motion" is impossible. And ironically, at the 'microscopic' >(gyroscopic particle) level, the "perpetual *mechanical* motion" of these >gyroscopic particles represents the mechanical essence of the ENTIRE >UNIVERSE. > >Gyroscopically yours, > >Evan Soule' >Director of Information >NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS >josephnewman@earthlink.net Dear Evan, I have a question: What is the order of magnitude of size of the gyroscopic particles? What is the order of magnitude of their spacings in a vacuum? In copper? In iron? (centimeters or Angstrom units, whatever unit you wish.) What is their rate of spin? I don't recall that this data was in Mr. Newman's book. Sincerely, Zack Widup -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 10:40:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02682; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC433F.B6CA6790@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:37:37 -0700 Encoding: 75 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"xwiDi.0.Xf.P5JIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: >I do wish some of our vortexian members would take the question of the >source of the magnets field doing work and what would be the effect on >the chemical / atomic structure of the magnet to heart. Or is it that >we all lurk here, but don't really believe what we seek is possible. >Sort of a morbid curiosity, I quess. Greg, I know that some of us have taken that question very seriously. We may not be posting, but we're thinking. It's just not a simple question. Well, maybe it's a simple question that has a simple answer, but it isn't simple for us to get the answer yet. We're trying to find what is the true nature of magnetism and its interaction with matter! Many powerful minds have worked on that question over the years. I believe we'll get it; forums such as the Vortex and Freenrg lists are potentially the most powerful entities ever to exist for scientific thought (inspiration, however, still seems to be an individual action). I personally have lots of thoughts in my head about this, but they're mostly in the conceptual, swirling-in-a-mist-and-not-yet-condensed-into-linear-thought state. What makes it into the left brain (and onto the lists) seems somewhat simplistic sometimes; the inspirational part of my mind is looking for more data before making more connections, I guess. So most of my contributions are likely to be questions. Fortunately, as I've found when teaching, it is sometimes the students' innocent questions that lead me to the most thorough knowledge. (but of course it takes great patience to endure the large number of elementary questions and still be open and listening when that significant one arrives!) Here's a couple: Has anyone ever measured the "speed" of a magnetic field? Several ways of thinking of this: How fast does the field propagate across the room when we fire up a coil? Aside from the time it takes for the field to build itself. -or- If we were to assume Newman's theory is right about "gyroscopic particles", how fast are those particles traveling along their path from pole to pole? I know Newman says the speed of light. -or- If we were able to block the field from being continuous from one pole to the next of a permanent magnet: upon removing the block, how long before the field finds its original path? But when we block the path the field lines will just distort so they are still continuous. Nevertheless, how fast do they rebound to their undistorted form? Would that be FTL? If field lines would just distort - that is, if they are *always* continuous - that does seem to indicate that the magnetic lines we see are not a flow as we think of it - at least not in our dimensions. They seem to be more of a "sphere of influence", the surface of a 3-dimensional space which can be distorted but not broken. Interesting how they present themselves to us as a set of discrete lines. Does that mean that they are individual energy states? Seems sort of quantum-like, no? I've been discussing this a bit with a friend who is not on the vortex or freenrg lists. Here's a recent thought from him: Bob Echols wrote: >My own feeling about the answer to this question is influenced >heavily from Bruce DePalma. It seems that a magnetic field >changes the normally isotropic space-time field to being >"polarized". Once space-time is polarized, then with the >"proper" motions, one can illicit a flow from this dynamic >medium. Sound vague enough for you! The picture in my >mind needs to have a few details filled out. Anyway one >can understand ferromagnetism, as was pointed out in one >of your messages, as arising from the unpaired spin states >of electrons in atomic orbitals. Since electrons are connected >to all of space-time, but manifest themselves as local bundles >of space-time energy condensate with spin 1/2 characteristics. >When electrons don't pair, then the surrounding space-time >feels this and our gaussmeter records a magnetic field. Hope this is useful. Dan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 13:41:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA17970; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:41:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:41:43 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:43:53 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: New Source of Energy Resent-Message-ID: <"LHE4q1.0.gO4.5mLIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In Chapter 2 (Gyroscopic Actions) Joe describes how the direction of current flow down a conductor as the conductor passes through a magnetic field precisely matches the actions of a gyroscope. It is a precise match depending upon whether the conductor moves up or down (with respect to the orientation of the field) and is also a precise match if the conditions are reversed, e.g., the magnets' poles are reversed 180 degrees. Among the very first questions which Joseph Newman asked himself over 30 years ago was: 1) How can one _slowly_ move a copper conductor through a magnetic field and a current moves _rapidly_ down the conductor? 2) From whence comes this _rapid_ current flow? 3) How does the current always "know" in which way to travel relative to the direction of motion of the conductor and the orientation of the magnets? I would ask you (and all other list members) honestly -- *do you have an answer for these questions?* Joe HAS an answer: a very explicit, beautiful simple explanation: There is _already_ a mechanical entity moving in that magnetic field -- a _real_ kinetic entity with mechanical characteristics which precisely match the mechanical characteristics of a gyroscope. Why must we complicate the mechanical understanding of this essentially mechanical entity with such descriptions as the following: Bob Echols wrote: >It seems that a magnetic field changes the normally isotropic >space-time field to being "polarized". Once space-time is >polarized, then with the "proper" motions, one can illicit >a flow from this dynamic medium. I'm sorry Mr. Echols -- and no insult intended -- but your explanation makes _no_ sense to me in terms of the simple observables relative to Faraday's generator. I should add, Jay, that Joe views his Gyroscopic Particle Theory as _totally_ in keeping with the Law of Conservation of Matter/Energy. Joe is explicitly EXTENDING this natural law to the electromagnetic domain. He would add that one can neither create nor destroy the gyroscopic particles --- they are mechanically transformed from one physical context to another. When these gyroscopic particles flow in one mechanical configuration _we_ percieve the result as a magnetic field; another configuration _we_ perceive it as an electric current; still another -- light; still another -- heat. And the interaction of such fields of gyroscopic particles are perceived as inertia, gravitation, etc. But these gyroscopic particles themselves cannot be created nor destroyed. And they are *perpetually* spinning at C and moving in some direction at C. Thus they represent the mechanical essence of Einstein's E=mc^2. Zack writes: >Dear Evan, > >I have a question: > >What is the order of magnitude of size of the gyroscopic particles? What >is the order of magnitude of their spacings in a vacuum? In copper? In iron? >(centimeters or Angstrom units, whatever unit you wish.) What is their >rate of spin? > >I don't recall that this data was in Mr. Newman's book. > >Sincerely, >Zack Widup Dear Zack, The question here is an understandable question, but perhaps not unlike asking a "fish" to detect "water." I believe Joe would say that the most powerful electron microscope _uses_ gyroscopic particles in "viewing" rather small particles. So how does one utilize gyroscopic particles to "view" gyroscopic particles? Perhaps someone can develope the requisite technology to achieve this. Even in particle accelerators, Joe would state that the result particles are _still_ agglutinations of gyroscopic particles. He believes that the gyroscopic particle is a(the?) building block of all matter(energy). So, how does one "see" the gyroscopic particle? At this point in time, Joe would say that one can know of it _by its (mechanical) effects_. While it would be very desirable to have a mathematically accurate measurement of a gyroscopic particle in Angstroms, this is NOT necessary to having a sciencific understanding of the nature of the gyroscopic particles. "Precision" [e.g., precise, operational definition of terminology] _is_ necessary to establish a science. "Accuracy" [e.g., mathematical measurement] is certainly (and always) desirable, but _not_ necessary. See above description relative to Faraday's generator and Fleming's Rule. It is known that lead shielding will shield subatomic particles. Yet a powerful magnetic field can penetrate a lead shield. This was a clue to Joseph Newman that the 'entity' comprising magnetic fields was far smaller than many subatomic particles. How small? He postulates that it is the building block of _all_ particles....even "neutrinos"..... that's pretty small! As he has stated, "The energy in a magnetic field must be moving in a direction at the speed of light and must also have a gyroscopic spin at the speed of light: _herein lies the mechanical essence of E=mc^2_! "The Kinetic Energy of a moving particle is 1/2MV^2. If the particle is moving with speed V and also rotating about its axis at speed V, then the total Kinetic Energy is 1/2MV^2 (for forward motion) plus 1/2MV^2 (for the rotational motion [not 1/2Iw^2]) which equals MV^2. If V is equal to C, then the total Kinetic Energy is equal to MC^2. (Hypothetically, this particle is mathematically an infinitely small entity which, in a literal and mechanical sense, moves laterally and rotationally to generate a gyroscopic [spiral] helix effect.] "The literal and mechanical configuration of a magnetic field is simply a result of the summation of atom alignment within the material from which the magnetic field is generated." "At this time, I had also mechanically explained why electric charges as well as magnets attracted and repelled. (Conventional teachings only state that "like" magnetic poles repel and "unlike" magnetic poles attract. It is also said that "like" electrical charges repel and "unlike" electrical charges attract. This is a superficial analysis.) The answer to such attraction/repulsion is simple. The gyroscopic spin has a mechancial action which causes the observed results and can be mechanically understood and predicted." Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html P.S. The precisely-defined Copernican Theory was presented to the world by Copernicus without having the benefit of Newtonian mechanics which (along with such technological refinements as the telescope) would have made _accurate_ measurements possible. And this is often the nature of the progress of science. "I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a physical existence in that intermediate space." --- MICHAEL FARADAY From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 14:55:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA12019; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33496D3B.2764@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 07:25:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mechanical Energy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yVV5j3.0.hx2.SrMIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > Greg wrote: > >We seem to have a very good understanding that magnetic fields are not a > >energy source in themselves and can only convert or transmit energy. > > Magnetic fields represent very real, kinetic energy ... just as moving > water represents a harnessable, kinetic flow (source?) of energy. Hi Evan, I agree, but its the source of the field's energy that I am interested in. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 15:41:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17855; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:43:41 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Mechanical Energy Resent-Message-ID: <"uuadK2.0.tM4.eWNIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Evan Soule wrote: >> >> Greg wrote: >> >We seem to have a very good understanding that magnetic fields are not a >> >energy source in themselves and can only convert or transmit energy. >> >> Magnetic fields represent very real, kinetic energy ... just as moving >> water represents a harnessable, kinetic flow (source?) of energy. > >Hi Evan, > >I agree, but its the source of the field's energy that I am interested >in. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile I understand. And to everyone in general: I would only add that the physical, MECHANICAL (to use the terminology employed by James Clerk Maxwell) entity comprising a magnetic field possesses mechanical characteristics which precisely match that of a *GYROSCOPE*. I believe that this simply cannot be ignored if one wishes to fundamentally understand the nature of a magnetic field. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 7 21:51:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA04703; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 8 Apr 97 16:48 NZST X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: Re: New Source of Energy X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"NEPkB3.0.L91.lwSIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:43:53 -0600 josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) wrote: >In Chapter 2 (Gyroscopic Actions) Joe describes how the direction of >current flow down a conductor as the conductor ...........etc. >big snip Why is it that so many people fail to see the logic and truth behind this understanding, and why is it that these concepts are so vigorously resisted and attacked? They are certainly based on vastly more rational thinking than many of the obscure and convoluted ideas masquerading as science today. And they open up a far clearer understanding of electromagnetic phenomena, without contradicting the limited predictions of current knowledge. But then current physics might not predict that Greg will EVER get any energy or work out of a permanent magnet! If he DOES, do you have a choice? But the TRUTH is, that there is nothing new about ANY of this. Joseph Newman is certainly NOT the first to have arrived at his understanding, as some might imply. He may be just the first Joseph Newman. This knowledge has been around for CENTURIES ........EVEN WORSE, for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, but twentieth century science has chosen to ignore it. In particular, "physics" has been so intent on inventing its own superior brand of soap, that it has excluded any possibility of intelligent thought (past or future) that doesn't conform to the pronouncements of the concrete and cannonball paradigm. And yet illogically, a paradigm that advances itself on a mystical menagerie of particles, exhibiting the most bizarre characteristics superstition (or ignorance) could ever invent. Faraday and Maxwell certainly knew better, as Evan frequently points out. >From their writings, both J. Keely and N. Tesla also seem to have had a more rational understanding. But if you fancy a more definitive description on the matter, do some research on the stone tablets found by William Niven earlier this century, just northwest of Mexico City. It is said that they are about twelve thousand years old, and include a description of a primordial pre-atomic particle called a "Zii". These tiny revolving (gyroscopic!!) 'worlds' form a larger particle called a "Cahun" (meaning dividable into, or divides into, four), - the electron. It seems they also knew that both the "Zii" and the "Cahun" were 'forces' and far too small to be 'seen' by the human eye. These tablets also describe how the revolving "Zii" follow one another in a spinning orbital motion into and around the atomic particles. And how the MAGNETIC force of the "Zii" attaches it to the atom, causing it revolve. After completing the circles that causes the atom to revolve, the "Zii" exit and depart. But then of course these people lived about twelve thousand years ago, so they wouldn't know too much about physics. (Time to take cover. Incoming flack at five o'clock!) Regards, Stuart Rae From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 07:11:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA13213; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:11:08 -0700 (PDT) From: LLIPKA@oa.ithaca.edu Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hubbard coil info To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <01IHGJ9BRJTE8XEBXB@oa.ithaca.edu> X-VMS-To: IN%"freenrg-l@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"icRdy2.0.JE3.u7bIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Please send me a copy of the info you have on the coil. THANKS --- Len addr: L Lipka 58 Liberty ST. Owego N.Y. 13827 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 07:40:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA00020; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:40:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:40:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC443B.C2609500@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'MARK SQUIRE'" Cc: "'Multiple recipients of list NEOTECH'" , "'Multiple recipients of list Freenrg-l'" Subject: RE: electrostatics? Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:35:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u-hmO3.0.A.GZbIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mark, I know that in Japan there was build a boat which uses this principle. The boat was called the 'Yamato' I believe. Cheers, Pete ---------- From: mark squire[SMTP:mark.squire@dinuba.com] Sent: maandag 7 april 1997 14:49 To: Multiple recipients of list NEOTECH Subject: Re: electrostatics? Everyone, I need to bounce some ideas around. Does anyone here know anything electrostatics, and physics in-depth? Okay, here's the idea. Ever hear of a magnetohydrodynamic drive system or MHD? It is a submarine drive system that uses no propellers, but instead applies a charge to the water and uses electromagnetically charged tubes to pull that charged water in and push it out the other end. Air is a form of liquid as well. Setting asside the practical limitations of weight and other factors, what if one were to electrostatically charge the air above an electromagnetically charged ring, or short tube? Might it be possible to suck the air into the ring the same way a MHD does with water thus creating lift? How can one charge the air? I would greatly appreciate feedback, or any ideas that any of you might be able to contribute. . . ~Mark * Q-Blue 2.2 [NR] * Q-Blue: the first offline reader worthy of the Amiga. -> Neotech Mailing list -> Post to: listserv@xbn.shore.net -> Subscribe neotech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 11:30:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA10374; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:30:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:30:09 -0700 Message-ID: <334A8E7D.DCC@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 08:29:22 -1000 From: Rick Monteverde Reply-To: monteverde@worldnet.att.net Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Source of Energy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jN9FG2.0.xX2.mweIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: > [...] do some research on the stone tablets found by > William Niven earlier this century, just > northwest of Mexico City. It is said that they are > about twelve thousand years old [...] What is your source for this "Zii" information? Are you by chance a David Hatcher Childress fan? Fun books for flights of imagination, but keep the saltshaker handy. Are there any references to these tablets and their interpretation you could refer us to other than such a source? "It is said" particularly bugs me. *Who* says? I'm skeptical of the interpretations sometimes given to ambiguous archeological finds. Perhaps some of the young residents of that ancient city would have been amused to hear that in the distant future sophisticated and technically educated people might interpret a tablet describing a popular children's game, fairytale, or soup recipe as being a description of the inner clockworks of the universe. I have no doubt at all that there were at least some small groups (guilds) which developed and/or preserved high technical knowledge in ancient times. For instance, the Vedas are not at all ambiguous about this, and probably originate in that 11,000bp+ time period. The Mexican tablets just might be something extraordinary. But I'm skeptical of such claims, especially from certain sources, even though I am open minded to the possibilities. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 14:58:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10714; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:58:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:58:13 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:57:57 -0400 (EDT) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Source of Energy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lqKMP1.0.Jd2.qzhIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Stuart Rae wrote: > Why is it that so many people fail to see the logic and truth behind this > understanding, and why is it that these concepts are so vigorously resisted Many people are not introduced to the field of free-energy in a proper manner to begin with. On top of that, many people who are properly introduced to it and have adequate resources for research simply don't have the time to try and learn/understand the theory. And if people don't have the time to do it, it's easier to say `nonsense' than to accept that free-energy is under the tip of our fingers and has been found before but consequently buried because of politics, beurocracy, or coverups, etc. Many other people get discouraged because of the many "false" positive devices that are purported to work as O/U but don't upon being replicated. > and attacked? They are certainly based on vastly more rational thinking than > many of the obscure and convoluted ideas masquerading as science today. And ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please, provide me with a few examples with along with a few of the more rational alternative views to these examples. Please use examples that clearly show an advantage that is testable and verifiable in the lab. > they open up a far clearer understanding of electromagnetic phenomena, > without contradicting the limited predictions of current knowledge. But then > current physics might not predict that Greg will EVER get any energy or work > out of a permanent magnet! If he DOES, do you have a choice? Physics is a path of science travelled by humans, and as such there are mistakes with our work. Nobody is denying that possibility. I think that branding physics as a "blinded religous cult" is fairly un-accurate. Of course you will find some people like this in every field, but the majority of physicists haven't found enough cause to question there close held ideas, and if they do; they simply don't have time to follow up on them. (BTW: I'm not saying that you in particular are branding physics as such, but i've seen a such an attitude a few times before and just wanted to point out MHO) > In particular, "physics" has been so intent on inventing its own superior > brand of soap, that it has excluded any possibility of intelligent thought > (past or future) that doesn't conform to the pronouncements of the concrete > and cannonball paradigm. And yet illogically, a paradigm that advances > itself on a mystical menagerie of particles, exhibiting the most bizarre > characteristics superstition (or ignorance) could ever invent. > > Faraday and Maxwell certainly knew better, as Evan frequently points out. > >From their writings, both J. Keely and N. Tesla also seem to have had a more > rational understanding. Faraday, Tesla and Maxwell were also geniouses for their time. Humans will advance, and if free energy exists, we won't be able to "miss/ignore" it forever. > But if you fancy a more definitive description on the matter, do some > research on the stone tablets found by William Niven earlier this century, > just northwest of Mexico City. It is said that they are about twelve > thousand years old, and include a description of a primordial pre-atomic > particle called a "Zii". These tiny revolving (gyroscopic!!) 'worlds' form > a larger particle called a "Cahun" (meaning dividable into, or divides into, > four), - the electron. It seems they also knew that both the "Zii" and the > "Cahun" were 'forces' and far too small to be 'seen' by the human eye. These > tablets also describe how the revolving "Zii" follow one another in a > spinning orbital motion into and around the atomic particles. And how the > MAGNETIC force of the "Zii" attaches it to the atom, causing it revolve. > After completing the circles that causes the atom to revolve, the "Zii" exit > and depart. Regardless, I'd say that as a whole, science is advancing at an impressive rate. Who knows maybe these people dreamed up this Zii theory. I certainly haven't heard of this era using any advanced technology (or technology that would be akin to knowledge analogous to the atomic model) so maybe this report is fake. Who knows. > But then of course these people lived about twelve thousand years ago, so > they wouldn't know too much about physics. A positive attitude will help people get on the ball more with free energy research. Foo-foo'ing mainstream science is only likely to drive away the biggest group of people who's knowledge, skills and resources would be beneficial to the free-energy cause. Think about it. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 17:42:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07917; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:42:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:42:07 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:27:46 +1000 Message-Id: <9704090027.AA29568@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: electrostatics? Resent-Message-ID: <"4G2bn1.0.Yx1.UNkIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Might it be possible to suck the air into the >ring the same way a MHD does with water thus creating lift? How can one >charge the air? > There is a detailed illustration of such a bird in Stan Deyo's book, "The Cosmic Conspiracy". I believe you can order it from his website. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 18:00:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA13070; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:00:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:00:47 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC4492.6E7E0D80@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'MARK SQUIRE'" Cc: "'Multiple recipients of list Freenrg-l'" , "'Multiple recipients of list NEOTECH'" Subject: RE: electrostatics? magnetohydrodynamic drive system Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 03:02:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yC6sp2.0.3C3.zekIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mark, I've found some info about this ship located here: http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ONRA/oceans/aoi/1994_2/051794b.eng - Pete -------- Instant person, just add coffee ----------- An extract follows here; A. Analytical and Experimental Studies of the Helical Magnetohydrodynamic Thruster Design, J.B. Gilbert and T.F. Lin, Applied Research Laboratory/Penn State University (This was the only paper presented in the subject of MHD propulsion and the work was partially funded by ONR) - An experimental ship, YAMATO-1, utilizing a pair of MHD thrusters that are based on superconducting dipole magnets, was built and tested in a series of sea-trials by Japanese shipbuilders under the guidance of the Ship and Ocean Foundation of Japan in 1992. Although the experiment was an epoch-making event in that the exotic ship-propulsion concept has been demonstrated for the first time in the real sea environment outside laboratories, the results of the tests failed to meet expectations of ship researchers and designers primarily because of its very low speed and efficiencies. The engineers and designers of the experimental ship identified the Joules heat loss cause by applying high current to seawater as the most responsible for the low efficiency. Thus, one solution would be somehow to reduce current applied to the seawater in the thruster duct (this was pointed out in my previous report, "Superconducting MHD Ship "YAMATO-1", dtd. 22 Nov 93). - A new type of MHD thruster of ARL/Penn State University utilizes large-diameter-bore solenoid magnets which generated much higher magnetic flux density (8 Tesla) than the YAMATO dipole magnets (2 Tesla) due to a geometric advantage of symmetric windings for the former. - The paper reports that the efficiency of the thruster was enhanced by an order of magnitude over that from the linear thruster due to reduced electric current density applied over the longer thruster geometry, thus significantly reducing the joules heating. - The paper concluded that the helical thruster concept is a viable alternative for marine vehicle propulsion. Everyone, I need to bounce some ideas around. Does anyone here know anything electrostatics, and physics in-depth? Okay, here's the idea. Ever hear of a magnetohydrodynamic drive system or MHD? It is a submarine drive system that uses no propellers, but instead applies a charge to the water and uses electromagnetically charged tubes to pull that charged water in and push it out the other end. Air is a form of liquid as well. Setting asside the practical limitations of weight and other factors, what if one were to electrostatically charge the air above an electromagnetically charged ring, or short tube? Might it be possible to suck the air into the ring the same way a MHD does with water thus creating lift? How can one charge the air? I would greatly appreciate feedback, or any ideas that any of you might be able to contribute. . . ~Mark * Q-Blue 2.2 [NR] * Q-Blue: the first offline reader worthy of the Amiga. -> Neotech Mailing list -> Post to: listserv@xbn.shore.net -> Subscribe neotech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 18:36:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA10004; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:36:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704090136.VAA20439@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: electrostatics? magnetohydrodynamic drive system To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:35:59 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <01BC4492.6E7E0D80@art.xs4all.nl> from "Pete Art" at Apr 9, 97 03:02:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"K2D5g.0.8S2.NAlIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There was a show on this ship on the Discovery Channel around 2 months ago. I think it was on Beyond 2000. Andrew > > Hi Mark, > > I've found some info about this ship located here: > http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ONRA/oceans/aoi/1994_2/051794b.eng > > - Pete > -------- Instant person, just add coffee ----------- > > > > An extract follows here; > > A. Analytical and Experimental Studies of the Helical > Magnetohydrodynamic Thruster Design, J.B. Gilbert and T.F. Lin, > Applied Research Laboratory/Penn State University > (This was the only paper presented in the subject of MHD > propulsion and the work was partially funded by ONR) > - An experimental ship, YAMATO-1, utilizing a pair of MHD > thrusters that are based on superconducting dipole magnets, was > built and tested in a series of sea-trials by Japanese > shipbuilders under the guidance of the Ship and Ocean Foundation > of Japan in 1992. Although the experiment was an epoch-making > event in that the exotic ship-propulsion concept has been > demonstrated for the first time in the real sea environment > outside laboratories, the results of the tests failed to meet > expectations of ship researchers and designers primarily because > of its very low speed and efficiencies. The engineers and > designers of the experimental ship identified the Joules heat loss > cause by applying high current to seawater as the most responsible > for the low efficiency. Thus, one solution would be somehow to > reduce current applied to the seawater in the thruster duct (this > was pointed out in my previous report, "Superconducting MHD Ship > "YAMATO-1", dtd. 22 Nov 93). > - A new type of MHD thruster of ARL/Penn State University > utilizes large-diameter-bore solenoid magnets which generated much > higher magnetic flux density (8 Tesla) than the YAMATO dipole > magnets (2 Tesla) due to a geometric advantage of symmetric > windings for the former. > - The paper reports that the efficiency of the thruster was > enhanced by an order of magnitude over that from the linear > thruster due to reduced electric current density applied over the > longer thruster geometry, thus significantly reducing the joules > heating. > - The paper concluded that the helical thruster concept is a > viable alternative for marine vehicle propulsion. > > > Everyone, > > I need to bounce some ideas around. Does anyone here know anything > electrostatics, and physics in-depth? > > Okay, here's the idea. Ever hear of a magnetohydrodynamic drive system or > MHD? It is a submarine drive system that uses no propellers, but instead > applies a charge to the water and uses electromagnetically charged tubes to > pull that charged water in and push it out the other end. Air is a form of > liquid as well. Setting asside the practical limitations of weight and other > factors, what if one were to electrostatically charge the air above an > electromagnetically > charged ring, or short tube? Might it be possible to suck the air into the > ring the same way a MHD does with water thus creating lift? How can one > charge the air? > > I would greatly appreciate feedback, or any ideas that any of you might be > able to contribute. . . > > ~Mark > > * Q-Blue 2.2 [NR] * Q-Blue: the first offline reader worthy of the Amiga. > > > > -> Neotech Mailing list > -> Post to: listserv@xbn.shore.net > -> Subscribe neotech > > > > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 19:45:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA01900; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:45:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:45:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970408194644.0072b134@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 19:46:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Anyone knows a formula for this ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_860579206==_" Resent-Message-ID: <"pieIt2.0.bT.KBmIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_860579206==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Attached is a graph of a magnetic attraction VERSUS distance of a ferromagnetic block into a GAP between two permanent magnets in an attracting mode. (along the gap's centerline) Note: this is NOT the same as an open-pole magnet attracting a piece of iron, where the attraction force is related to inverse cube of the distance. As you can see the red curve doesn't resemble inverse cube relationship and the blue curve (B field through the block) resembles a tangent function more than anything else. Is any one of you good enough with math to come up with a formula for the red or blue curve ? --=====================_860579206==_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="NS Attract.gif"; x-mac-type="47494666"; x-mac-creator="4A565752" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="NS Attract.gif" R0lGODlh2AAgAfcAAP/////+/v/9/f/8/P/7+//6+v/5+f/4+P/29v/19f/09P/z8//y8v/x8f/r 6/7+//7+/v7u7v7r6/7q6v7p6f7n5/7k5P7j4/7h4f7c3P7X1/7W1v7T0/7S0v7R0f3+//39//39 /f3Hx/2/v/28vPyrq/yjo/ygoPv8//v7+/uGhvt+fvtBHPr6+vpubvpqavpoaPplZfpiYvphYfpf X/pcXPpbW/pZWfpWVvpRUfn6/vn5+flOTvlHR/k8PPk7O/k6OvkyMvj6/vj4+PgsLPgqKvgnJ/gk JPggIPgeHvgbG/gZGfgUFPgTE/gREff39/cYGPcSEvcODvcNDfcMDPcLC/cKCvcJCfcICPcHB/cG BvcFBfcEBPcDA/cCAvcBAfcAAPb29vX3/vX19fP1/vPz8/Ly8vDw8O/v7+7u7u3w/ezs7Ovr6+rq 6unt/ejo6Obm5uXq/eXq/OXl5ePj49/k+97wDt7k+93d3dje+9fX19bW1tXc+tDQ0M/Pz8vU+cfH x8bGxsLM+MDAwL+/v7rG97nE96+89q+vr6m39ae29aa19aSkpKKy9aGw9KCw9J+v9J+fn52t9J2d 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pSfSHsKxoz8aKQ56GaOKpS2qG7HaobN6q7wSEAA7 --=====================_860579206==_-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 21:29:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA02677; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:29:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 21:28:38 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: RE: electrostatics? magnetohydrodynamic drive system Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"CdVCe3.0.if.AinIp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mark: You asked: > > > >Okay, here's the idea. Ever hear of a magnetohydrodynamic drive system or >MHD? It is a submarine drive system that uses no propellers, but instead >applies a charge to the water and uses electromagnetically charged tubes to >pull that charged water in and push it out the other end. Air is a form of >liquid as well. Setting asside the practical limitations of weight and other >factors, what if one were to electrostatically charge the air above an >electromagnetically > charged ring, or short tube? Might it be possible to suck the air into the >ring the same way a MHD does with water thus creating lift? How can one >charge the air? > I'm not the expert you seek but I do know that the liquid medium must be conductive. Air, even charged electrostatically wouldn't be conductive enought. This MHD effect is quite weak. I did it once to show my son, used ceramics and a 9V battery. It worked but very weakly. Byrun. > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 21:31:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA18983; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:31:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:31:19 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 16:30 NZST X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: Re: New Source of Energy X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"YYlKS2.0.We4.LknIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: >What is your source for this "Zii" information? ..... >....."It is said" particularly bugs me. *Who* says? Point taken. The description comes from an old odd-ball book I stumbled onto called "The Cosmic Forces of Mu" by a Colonel James Churchwood. It was written between 1870 and 1934, so it seems Niven found the tablets earlier than I thought. Just another stone turned, and one example of a common theme. >I'm skeptical of the interpretations sometimes given to ambiguous >archeological finds. Nothing like a healthy dose of scepticism to keep the gullibility at bay. >I have no doubt at all that there were at least some small groups >(guilds) which developed and/or preserved high technical knowledge in >ancient times. For instance, the Vedas are not at all ambiguous about >this, and probably originate in that 11,000bp+ time period. The Mexican >tablets just might be something extraordinary. But I'm skeptical of such >claims, especially from certain sources, even though I am open minded to >the possibilities. > Yes that's interesting. I'm no expert on the Vedas, but from what I've read, don't they contain a similar theme with regard to the nature of Akasa (or Ether?), and the 49 fires that include sound, electricity, magnetism, heat etc? Regards, Stuart Rae From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 8 21:54:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA23815; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:54:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:54:39 -0700 Message-ID: <334B226A.3768@gorge.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 22:00:26 -0700 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Eleectrostatics? References: <199704090245.TAA01971@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vx38k3.0.-p5.D4oIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am no expert on this, but I think your idea has a basic problem. The central issue in any kind of MHD device is a "CONDUCTING FLUID." The conducting fluid carries an eleectric current, through magnetic fields. The combination produces thrust. (Conversly, or reversed, it can produce current.) Air is not considered conductive. It must be turned into a "plasma." This takes a lot of energy. Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 9 06:31:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA11312; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 06:31:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 06:31:35 -0700 Message-ID: <334BA841.590D@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 07:31:29 -0700 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electrostatics? magnetohydrodynamic drive system References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NR7dQ3.0.fm2.sevIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! With reference to the comments about electric drivig of fluids...check out the last part of the file; http://www.keelynet.com/biology/elife.htm seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 9 07:02:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA17883; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:01:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:01:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:01:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Rusi To: Jerry Decker cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electrostatics? magnetohydrodynamic drive system In-Reply-To: <334BA841.590D@keelynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6BR-W1.0.GN4.E5wIp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: jerry, i have been reading your pages on Tesla and Bielek. could you please post any data that confirms of refutes the claims for etheric powered vehicles and time travel/teleportation with regard to the claims of these men? tia, Tony From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 9 17:08:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12558; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:06:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:06:16 -0700 Message-ID: <334C2E3B.7CA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:33:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnets in SN SN Configuration Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------64B57D0876E4" Resent-Message-ID: <"RB4uH1.0.j33.qx2Jp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------64B57D0876E4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached a Gif image of the flux contours around two magnets in a yoked and isolated SN SN config. The field contours are very different as the returning fields in the isolated example show a "Null Zone" surrounding the air gap and the yoked example shows the expected flux bulge. This is interesting as I have previously shown how two magnets in a SN NS config generate a increased flux density in the same area. I have sent a sequence of GIfs to the DNMEC list group showing how this "Null Zone" is dependent on the magnet spacing. I have verified this null zone in actual testing. The magnet are the same in both Gifs. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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pEPv+UzejXSWV6rjwyiXUoNq0ZrOGylH6ejQAJqUm3HjoUEHN8/J2ZSk4HvjFlm3xI56romN PKVPsbe7LrYTpUrFYhZRZjaCDu6etvziQg2ZRucBsHIBAQA7 --------------64B57D0876E4-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 9 17:12:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14973; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:10:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:10:58 -0700 Message-ID: <334C0373.9EB@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 14:00:35 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU device. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nMD-q1.0.of3.G03Jp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Someone(?) wrote: > Sixth: spend all your effort making an airtight demo. > > A tiny spinner which keeps turning, or better yet a light bulb which runs > for weeks, beats any number of electric cars or huge multi-kilowatt > blackboxes hands down. Don't try to build a flying saucer, try to build a > soup-can which unexplainedly loses 1% of its weight, and which anyone can > duplicate. If possible, make it so simple that you could sell it as a kit > to school kids. Make it so obvious that your grandmother could follow the > instructions and make a successful replica. If the goal is to blow away > the objections of the skeptics, then the device should clearly demonstrate > the new principle in ways which cannot be explained away. Doing any more > than this will just obscure the principle. And doing less than this will > almost guarantee that your discovery gets ignored as being yet another > crackpot claim. I used to beleive that this was the most reasonable approach to take. I'm no longer sure about that though. Actually, I am quite sure that while this SHOULD be true, it is far from being true. Unless the claims cause someone to 'want to beleive' in a given invention, it gets nearly no attention at all. If your claims show a small, but unknown source of power (even with no power input at all!) the invention will not get the attention given to claims of 120% over unity from designs proven not to be over unity at all. If the power ouput claims are not high enough for someone to think that they will no longer need to pay energy bills, then they canot be bothered to find out why there may be a small ammount of energy being delivered. On the other hand, if you claim large scale energy production, with little or no evidence, your claims are more likley to take on mythic proportions in the eyes of those who want to beleive. So far, the claimed quantity of energy productuion draws more attention than the quality of the energy production claims. Your demo unit can have been operating for years running flea powered loads, and be nearly ignored, while people keep searching the same areas over and over again searching for excess energy production. I fear that unless you give the people who want to build a flying saucer reason to beleive that you can show them exactly how to do it, your air tight demonstration of a 1% loss in weight of a soup can will be a wasted effort. Document the production of a small, but just usable unknown power source, and the device will be ignored becuase the output is too small to be practical. Few if any are willing to do the work to understand the prototype, and work to increase the delivered energy. They want instant satisifaction of their desires, not something that needs better understanding or further research. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 9 17:55:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA19257; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <334C3989.6F63@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:21:21 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU device. References: <334C0373.9EB@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f4-0k1.0.rf4.Pf3Jp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Document the production of a small, but just usable unknown power > source, and the device will be ignored becuase the output is too small > to be practical. Few if any are willing to do the work to understand > the prototype, and work to increase the delivered energy. They want > instant satisifaction of their desires, not something that needs better > understanding or further research. Hi Bob, I agree fully and I know how many hours you have put into your scalar work. Likewise my DNMEC effect generator works, the effect is real, but its very small scale and would be expensive to scale up. Both our devices are producing energy where there should be none, but unless you can show someone how to disconnect from the grid, there is very little REAL interest. Seems the world wants instant big bang solutions. By the way, the comments were made by Bill Beaty. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 10 12:04:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA23191; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:04:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:04:32 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:06:36 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Proposed Patent Law Changes Resent-Message-ID: <"o2z_Z.0.Fg5.-cJJp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gary DePietro was kind enough to bring the following to my attention. While I don't necessary agree with every word in the statement, I did want to bring this posting to everyone's attention since these proposed changes could impact many on this List. -- Evan Soule' From: KENNETH WHITE, President VIRGINIA TAXPAYERS ASSOCIATION P. O. BOX 663 LYNCHBURG, VA 24505 TEL./FAX NO.:(804) 277-5255 Email: KWhite9472@aol.com 4/9/97 5:15 p.m. EST PLEASE CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSMAN IMMEDIATELY! COPY AND CIRCULATE WIDELY ! HR 400, the deliberately misnamed 21st Century Patent System "Improvement Act," is being rushed through Congress and could have a final vote in the House as early as NEXT WEEK, beginning April 14 ! Accepted by a House Judiciary subcommittee just on February 27, HR 400 which more properly should be called the Steal American Technology Act, was reported out to the House floor by the full Judiciary Committee March 12 by voice vote! HR 400 would forever destroy our matchless job-creating patent system. It mandates that 18 months after application date, every detail of the patent will be published *even if the patent has not been issued*. Powerful multinational companies want HR 400 so they can simply grab new ideas and use them against the actual inventors through long and expensive legal tie-ups which the individual inventors just cannot afford. Thus individuals' incentive to seek patents, which are essential to keep our economy functioning, would be destroyed, since it now often takes 20 months or more to get a patent! The multinationals and their lobbyists are the same ones that forced disastrous NAFTA and WTO agreements through Congress against broad popular opposition. The multinationals are the same ones who have been pushing our one-sided trade with China and are supporting the dangerous Red Chinese takeover of our U. S. naval base in Long Beach, Cal. With so many of our factories having been shipped overseas to low-wage countries by these large stateless corporations, sucking money and jobs out of our economy, one of the only advantages the U. S. still has left over our international competition is our unique job-creating patent system. HR 400 would make our patent office into a new government corporation which could accept contributions and have offices abroad, thus inviting outside influence and graft, since patent examiners would no longer be civil service employees. HR 400 is what the competitive Japanese want, since it would harmonize our patent system with theirs, and make American creative ideas more easily available to them! For further details on HR 400, contact its leading opponent in Congress: Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, (R-Cal.), tel.: (202) 225-2415. This is your last chance to stop HR 400 before big media silence and unresponsive Senate see to it that this bill quickly reaches President Clinton's desk for his waiting signature! Contact your congressman now, and tell him to vote AGAINST HR 400! KENNETH WHITE President From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 10 14:59:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04770; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:02:04 +0200 Message-Id: <199704102202.AAA24855@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Communications] Resent-Message-ID: <"Ja7k91.0.OA1.sAMJp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, did somebody also try the ball rolling up the hill patent with PMs repelling each other ? Does this also work, when the magnets face SN-ball-NS or NS-ball-SN inside the uphill track ? This way at the track beginning the ball could be better pulled into the track, cause the magnet field is coming more out of the gap, as we did know from EPI=B4s turntable experiments and Greg=B4s simulations... Regards, Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 11 00:16:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA08600; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:16:02 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: alexz@netwide.com.au, John.Strumila@DWNPLAZA.NCOM.nt.gov.au, Charles Cagle , char_ger@ix.netcom.com (Charlotte Geier ), "E. Tyo" , echan@netspace.net.au, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, jpmr@worldonline.nl, Frank Bonte <106440.223@compuserve.com>, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Puthoff@aol.com, little@eden.com (Scott Little), "James D Mann" , lhard@postoffice.csu.edu.au, "Lev G. Sapogin" , Rluijckx , Ronald Stiffler , tessien@oro.net (Ross Tessien), "Russ George" , Tim van Spaandonk , "VanSpaandonk, Joe (Indonesia)" , vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Edres change Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 06:56:48 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <334dbf65.22745531@mail.eisa.net.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R2OMS.0.E62.kKUJp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please note, that me email address has changed as per the return address on this message. Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 11 07:08:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA00843; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:08:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:08:43 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:10:50 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Thought Experiment Resent-Message-ID: <"QpP391.0.wC.gNaJp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ______________________________________________________ Historical Note: No doubt the reader is familiar with the popular story about Einstein's "thought experiment" regarding his "riding on a beam of light." The following "thought experiment" may also help one to think 'outside the square.' E. Soule' (Drawings converted to ascii format by ERS) ______________________________________________________ From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:43:14 -0400 (EDT) To: josephnewman@earthlink.net Subject: Thought experiment from H.W. (Butch) La Fonte ANALYSIS OF THOUGHT EXPERIMENT CONCERNING BEHAVIOR OF POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE CHARGES IN A SUPER CONDUCTING DIRECT CURRENT CIRCUIT AND THE ASSOCIATED BEHAVIOR OF THE MAGNETIC FIELD THAT SURROUNDS THE SOLID CONDUCTOR OF THE CIRCUIT DURING THE INITIAL ELECTRICAL IMPULSE THROUGH THE CIRCUIT AUTHOR: HAROLD W. LA FONTE Copyright 3-26-96 First posting: 4-11-97 Figure 1. CIRCUIT LENGTH 1 LIGHT HOUR (669,600,000 MILES) FROM VOLTAGE SOURCE TO POINT E (1,339,200,000 MILES TOTAL CIRCUIT LENGTH) [Note: Some mail programs may distort the ascii diagrams; it is hoped that the recipient can re-construct the original diagram, if necessary.] _____________________________________________ | C ^ | | | | A | (+) | | ------- | | | | Direct Current | | | | Voltage Source | | E | | | | ------- 6 ft. | B | (-) | | | | | | D v | _____________________________________________ \ \___________ Superconducting Wire This simple looking circuit as shown in figure 1, has some very interesting aspects. In talking with physics and electrical instructors that teach on the college level, many believed that a large number of students at all levels lacked knowledge of the fundamental behavior of this circuit. It appears to me that the initial behavior of current flow (electron drift), with respect to current impulse, and the formation of a magnetic field around a conductor of this length has not been presented in any text books or publications of any type to my knowledge. The behavior of the magnetic field around this straight conductor of such length, I believe, will behave in a very unique way. I think the field will take on a " pumping" type action not seen in any type circuit described previously. I see the expanding magnetic field along such a long conductor causing a back EMF that will begin to decrease the current rise. When this is sensed by the magnetic field at the beginning of the conductor, the field will collapse and try to maintain the present current flow . When this field collapses and the current rate starts to reach zero, the field will start to re-establish. This will start a wave like "pumping action," in my opinion. If this wave aspect does exist, then the circuit would have a wave-particle duality as does light. The electron aspect of the circuit being the particle aspect, the wave "pumping action" of the magnetic field being the wave aspect. There are other unique aspects to this circuit also, that I will cover in this paper. I believe that every student should have knowledge of the fundamental behavior of this circuit, though it has no practical application at this time. The sequence of events in this circuit as the circuit is simultaneously closed at the positive and negative terminals of the power source are as follows: 1. An electrical impulse originates at near light speed from the negative terminal of the battery, electron drift is started at this instant also, but at a slower speed, less than a millimeter per second for a current of one ampere flowing through a wire of very small diameter, such as the filament of a light bulb. A magnetic field starts to build around the conductor at this instant also. The only resistance to current flow (electron drift) in the direction from point B to point E is the counter-electromotive force induced in the opposite direction by the expanding magnetic field around the conductor. 2. At the same time that current flow starts at the negative terminal toward point E, electrons start flowing into the voltage source at the positive terminal, causing a progression of positive charged atoms to originate in the wire from point A to point E at near light speed. These atoms are bound in the solid conductor and they do not drift down the wire as do the negative charged electrons drifting from the negative terminal of the voltage source, point B to point E. A magnetic field builds around the wire, starting at the positive terminal of the voltage source, and progresses down the wire toward point E at the same rate as the magnetic field in the lower wire in the illustration. To help visualize this, what has happened after the circuit was closed at the voltage source is, two magnetic fields are building around the wires starting at the voltage source, and are racing "neck and neck" to point E to meet with each other. 3. It needs to be made clear that electron drift does not get left behind at the voltage source by the electrical impulse traveling at near light speed, but is continuously initiated at the leading point of the impulse. In other words, the electrical impulse strikes the electrons in its path and initiates their drift. The impulse at near light speed and the initiation of electron drift at near light speed must not be confused with the actual speed of the drift, it being much slower as stated previously. 4. Now we come to some very interesting aspects of this circuit. First, with a circuit one light hour long, with the electrical impulses from the voltage source being at points C and D, heading toward point E , a person at point E with a meter would not have any indication of electrical activity in the circuit for thirty minutes. He could actually cut the wires and the impulses traveling in the two wires toward him at near light speed, would behave no differently! The impulses at this point do not know if they are in an open circuit or a closed circuit! If you were to put a light bulb in the circuit at point D, the light would reach the person at point E before the electrical impulse, even with the wires cut at point E, due to the impulse being slightly slower than the speed of light due to its travel in the wire. After the two impulses meet, a continuous transfer of impulses from atom to atom by negatively charged electrons takes place while the actual drift of electrons is also continuous. The direction of electron drift is from the negative terminal around to the positive terminal of the voltage source. 5. Another interesting aspect of this circuit is if the superconductor weighed the same as #30 gauge copper wire, and the two wires were put close together before the circuit was closed, the wires would want to repel each other due to their currents flowing in opposite directions. If they did repel each other only 1/4", then 833,702,726 pounds or 416,850 tons of wire would have been moved! That's roughly the weight of 208,000 large automobiles. What if the voltage source was a AAA battery 1.5v? Figure 2. CIRCUIT LENGTH 1 LIGHT HOUR (669,600,000 MILES) FROM VOLTAGE SOURCE TO POINT E (1,339,200,000 MILES TOTAL CIRCUIT LENGTH) switch light ___________ _____ (Y)_____________________ | / C ^ | | / | | A | (+) | | ------- | | | | Direct Current | | | | Voltage Source | | E | | | | ------- 6 ft. | B | (-) | | | | | | D v | _____________________________________________ \ \___________ Superconducting Wire 6. If you were to put a light bulb a few feet from the positive terminal in the circuit, and as the two magnetic fields meet at point E, you were to short out the circuit at the switch shown in figure 2 at switching time = 0, the current would decrease exponentially to zero, during this time, ( this inductive time constant needs to be calculated ) the light bulb would continue to burn, though decreasing in brightness. This would take place with the voltage source disconnected! This takes place after the light burned for one hour during the original pulse! SUMMARY 1. The inductive time constant of this circuit is at this point unknown to me. This time constant is, in my opinion, the governing factor in the behavior of this circuit. This value needs to be formulated. 2. The wave properties of the magnetic field that surround the conductor need to be analyzed, if indeed they do exist. 3. The total amount of energy stored in the magnetic field for a given current flow would be of interest also. 4. The circuit, I believe, needs to be mathematically verified. If one looks deeper into the possible behavior of this circuit, much can be learned and made available to the student. Certain anomalies with respect to energy conservation laws will have to be explained. This simple circuit as part of a thought experiment might explain some of the over-unity claims being reported in this country (i.e., Joseph Newman) and in JAPAN and other countries. If we cannot or simply will not take the time to analyze the behavior of this circuit, that is, the cemf, with respect to wave properties, inductive time constant, and the total energy of the magnetic field, and the total power available from that field, we will continue to work within a science of which we don't fully understand the fundamentals. I would greatly appreciate anyone willing to help in verifying this circuit behavior. Figure 3. (Please draw lines connecting the asterisks) [Drawn lines actually intersect the horizontal & cross over] Expanding Field Collapsing Field (being pumped) (pumping) \ * / \ / \ * * / * * * ------------------------------------------solid conductor * * * * * * Figure 4. (Please draw lines connecting the asterisks) [Drawn lines actually intersect the horizontal & cross over] (Vertically compressed versions of Figure 3] * * * * * * * * * -----------------------------solid conductor------------ * * * * * * * * * H. W. (BUTCH) LA FONTE 119 ROBERT E. LEE AVE. LEEDS, ALABAMA 35094 PHONE-1-205-699-5364 FAX- 1-205-699-5141 E-MAIL hlafonte@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 11 13:55:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA19354; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:54:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:54:59 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704112054.QAA21986@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Van De Graaff To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:54:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"HxA5e1.0.Ik4.XKgJp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Can anyone tell me an equation that will relate humidity to power output of a Van De Graaff generator. Thanks. Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 11 14:23:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA09648; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <334EB95E.4081@slkc.uswest.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:21:18 -0700 From: jared bouck Reply-To: jarbou@slkc.uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: gravity resonance coil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I1t6X.0.dM2.QkgJp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ok... i am new at this and am looking for any help i can get... i am building a gravity resonance coil... i have all the components and am about 1/2 the way done winding the mail inner coil... befor i plug this in i want to know if any one has done this and if so what to expect... jared p.s. i am recording the construction on vhs and allso will do the same for the first few runnings of this little toy... if any one wants a copy email me with your requiest and the cost will be 10.00 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 11 15:10:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA30196; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:10:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:10:07 -0700 From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves) Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Question Date: 11 Apr 1997 22:15:14 GMT Message-Id: <65501.265406322@compcafe.co.uk> Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK Resent-Message-ID: <"koYb9.0.aN7.zQhJp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All the books I've got show nice circular magnetic fields around conveniently circular conductors when a current passes along them. A simple (?) question: If the conductor is angular, say triangular, square or rectangular, is the field still circular around the conductor, sharply angular following its shape, or somewhere in between? Perhaps it depends upon the material that the conductor is made of? Pretty basic stuff, eh? ---------------------------------------- >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk ---------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 12 11:29:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA31522; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:28:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:28:37 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:30:19 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: A walk in the park.... Resent-Message-ID: <"SwUUd1.0.Ri7.KHzJp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:55:20 -0400 (EDT) To: josephnewman@earthlink.net Subject: A walk in the park Re: Thought Experiment Evan, When I think of what Joe Newman has been through, a negative reply from time to time will be a walk in the park for me. Most of the response has been positive to this point and I would be very suprised if they were all positive! I am looking forward to reading the text book that has this type circuit explained! Why hasn't anyone replied to the wave (pumping) action? Will the two wires repell? If so, how can that work be accounted for? Does this explain Joe Newman's theory of the magnetic field coming from the mass of the wire, not the current? Is the electrical impulse just a catalyst that brings about the magnetic field? I find it hard to believe that any college text book addresses this type circuit. The questions it poses are just not mainstream thinking. A text book dealing with a superconducting dc circuit one light hour long and teaches the existance or absence of the wave (pumping) action I mention? No college would let it near the campus! And by the way, would someone mind giving me the inductive time constant for this circuit? If they have any trouble, just borrow the local super-computer for a day or so! If the wave aspect (pumping) does exist, they might want to borrow it for a couple of weeks. They have my e-mail address, and a graph would be nice also. Evan, I believe this circuit is so complex that some may write it off rather than try to figure out it's true nature! Post this where you wish. If you have time I could use a list of locations where my article is. Thanks for the exposure. I think we are going to find something here. Butch LaFonte H. W. (BUTCH) LA FONTE 119 ROBERT E. LEE AVE. LEEDS, ALABAMA 35094 PHONE-1-205-699-5364 FAX- 1-205-699-5141 E-MAIL hlafonte@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 12 14:42:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA05667; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 14:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 14:42:16 -0700 (PDT) From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves) Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question Date: 12 Apr 1997 21:46:03 GMT Message-Id: <65501.270503876@compcafe.co.uk> Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK Resent-Message-ID: <"xxz7E.0.OO1.r60Kp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk writes: (snip) This implies that "circles" of flux lines are "crammed" together inside the loop, and spread farther apart outside. So the outer edge of any such loop will be further from the wire, than the inner edge. Thank you for that. It begs the question what if the conductor is a tube and the circuit is completed with a coaxial conductor back through its centre? Does the coax try to collapse or expand? Intriguing, though it's the single irregular conductor I'm interested in at the present. ---------------------------------------- >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk ---------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 13 01:43:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA22253; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:43:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:43:17 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:43:31 -0700 Message-Id: <9704130843.AA09401@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: Overunity coils Resent-Message-ID: <"8ZLkU3.0.cR5.ao9Kp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim, Thanks for the Gary info. I will be set up to get GIFs in a couple of weeks (I hope). >I continue to think of ferromagnetic materials as containing countless >ratchet mechanisms that might organized. Perhaps your idea of a >paramagnetic amplifier is a route to accomplish this objective. I have >long considered the possibility of varying the permeability of an >inductor core or the permittivity of a dielectric (especially >ferroelectrics like barium titanate) in a capacitor as possible way of >controlling the molecular ratchets. Yes, although that was not my reasoning when I got onto the parametric idea I have looked at this possibility too. It's well known that most of the magnetomotive force generated in ferrous coil comes from the organization of the domains by the wire's magnetic field and not from the wire's field itself. I take it (without looking at it deeply) that this is how Newman's machine is supposed to work (big coil+ small current= big force)(Forgive me Evan if I've gotten it wrong) The "official position" with this is that any energy generated by the iron must return to randomized domains when the exciting field is removed. The though comes to me as I write this that the problem is one of time. I'm thinking out loud here with no idea where it will go. A permanent magnet is usually created with a very fast pulsed magnetic field. This permanently reorganizes the domains. I haven't looked recently, I'll look it up, but it seems to me that the energy needed to magnetize and demagnetize a low remanence magnet material (ferrite?) is much less than the work this magnet could do pulling a ferrous mass around a rotor, because the current pulse and magnetic field needed can be of very short duration. Do you know how much time it takes to reorganize domains? Intuitively it must be very short, because of the extremely small scale involved (electron spin, domains). So you have a rotor with a high permeability, low remanence material (so the rotor doesn't magnetize and attract the stator after the stator has been demagnetized) and say four "magnets" around the periphery, each with its associated pulsed mag/demag apparatus. This could be capacitive, and it might be possible to set it up resonantly so the pulsed current is re-stored and reused for the next pulse. I just realized that I was reinventing the EV Grey motor. Are you familiar with that? It is very similar to what I described, except that the focus was on generated a high pulsed magnetic field in the stator segments (a capacitor feeding an electromagnet) rather than on creating temporary "permanent" magnets. The Grey motor was DEFINITELY overunity, highly engineered and very successful. He got an award from governor Ronald Reagan for it! On a different subject..you mention Barium Titanate. You can change the capacitance of Barium Titanate by applying a magnetic field (ferromagnetoelectric effect). Since the permeability of the BaTi03 presumably doesn't change much (not a ferromagnetic material) the material won't absorb much power from the oscillating magnetic field and thus the capacitive change would be accomplished with very little work. If the capacitor was part of a parametric circuit a current would be generated in the circuit that could power a load. You working circuit would consist of a flat BaTiO3 cylinder wound with a lot of wire, i.e an 'air' core. The coil would be part of a tank circuit (with losses minimized) driven by a small amp with freq synthesizer (pure sine wave). The top and bottom of the cylinder would have nonferrous layers that would serve as the capacitor plates. The cylinder would be part of the output parametric circuit consisting of an inductor and a load. This machine will be overunity IF: 1) The ferroelectromagnetic effect is great enough. 2) The losses in the primary tank circuit are small enough. 3) The frequency is high enough relative to the depth of modulation of capacitance and the load resistance. Next time I'm at the library I'll get more info on the properties of the Barium Titanate. If it turns out that the effect is large enough, are you in a position to try something like this out? As I've said on the list, I am not even remotely a builder. I am willing to pay for materials after seeing final building plans. >In your description of the parametric amplifier referred below, might it >be better to drive the counter wound coils with an AC source and the >load would then be across the large "primary" ? No, because the parametric effect depends on a magnetic field modifying the permeability of the core material. Anything that reduces the effective magnetic field reduces the change in permeability. What you're trying to do is create a large varying mag field in the primary that affects the inductance of the secondary without having any back effect on the primary. >Wouldn't the parametric EMF also be canceled by counter wound coils ? No, because the parametric effect depends only on the change in permeability and thus only on the intensity of the applied magnetic field, not its direction. There's no right hand rule in effect here. The parametrically induced current is going in the same direction in both halves of the secondary. I just got from the University library here a ton of articles on the parametric transformer that show windings essentially the same as what I've described. This arrangement has been used commercially for over twenty years: the Wanless transformer. (Which is of course an argument against it being overunity--I'll answer to that shortly). >> Actually, this experiment has already been done successfully by a >>guy >>named Scott Mckie, he got a 150% increase of power out/power in. I was >>just >>told about this the other day and I'm trying to get more info now. > >I would also like to hear more about this of course. Please let me know >what you find out. >By chance, was this the famous (or infamous) Magetic Resonant Amplifier >(MRA) ? I found a short article by McKie which is a classic piece of pre-patent, "investor come hither" hype. It's possible to read between the lines and see what his course of development was. He began with a rotary device which involved a resonant circuit. This was based on Tesla's work on resonance (and of course there is the usual meaningless adulatory verbiage about the greatness of Tesla). Then he applied the same principles to a solid-state machine based on the Wanless parametric transformer. I'm almost certain that he set it up as I have described with a resonant tank in the input and the output circuits. He claims affidavits from independent testers giving 150% power in/power out. Then for some reason he switched to a highly complex non-parametric circuit involving two tank circuits alternately supplying the load. This is what he patented. There's nothing I can see in the patent that would lead me to think it could be overunity. His writing implies to me that he did not understand the source of the overunity effect. The sorce of the overunity effect in my opinion is this: IN SOME CASES IT TAKES LESS ENERGY TO CHANGE THE PARAMETERS OF A CIRCUIT THAN IS GENERATED BY CHANGING THEM. There is nothing sacred about parametric resonance. It is the nonlinear nature of the materials that allows for these effects, and ultimately this has to do with the nature of time and inertia, but those are deep and muddy waters. I'll send you my two speculative posts about time and inertia to explain my views on this. It's possible that there is a connection to the MRA, certainly in the use of nonlinear material properties. This is getting really long. I'm going to post this both to you and to the list. People on the list can write me if they want to catch up on the discussion. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 13 09:27:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA19727; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:27:28 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970413122626_1650272985@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment Resent-Message-ID: <"dyf_e2.0.-p4.ibGKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I am glad to present you, a very simple experiment ( 5 minutes to build ) about the Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment. With this experiment you can test by yourself, that the centrifugal extraction from the inertial field of space is possible, that was first demonstrated by Faraday in 1831. Magnetic field energy act as a MAGNETIC VORTEX if we rotate the magnetic field on its axis and we can extract free energy to produce electricity. My device is a demonstrator, this is not a power supply for your home, but this experiment is only to prove that the Faraday homopolar generator principle is working, and you can test it by yourself. I give you the direct link to my web site : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/images/farhom.htm Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 13 11:57:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA06957; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:56:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:56:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: cmetnet.cmet.net: [206.48.24.49] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <335139FC.6142@cmet.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:54:36 -0400 From: ce3cwf = felix meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment References: <970413122626_1650272985@emout16.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m1bYN2.0.ci1.pnIKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Dear All, > > I am glad to present you, a very simple experiment ( 5 minutes to build ) >... snip > http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/images/farhom.htm > > Truly, > > Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) CONGRATULATIONS --------------- Jean-Louis, this is indeed a very interesting experiment. As you have built it, I would like to ask you some probes: - Does the output energy vary, if the disk is hold in different angles with respect to the earth magnetic field ? I ask this to find out, if the generated voltage is produced by the magnetic field in which we are, or if the output is independent of the orientation. - Is the output voltage a linear funcion of the rotating speed ? - Is the Voltage (0.5 V) measured with load (mechanical MA-meter) ? or what voltage is measured with a high impedance voltmeter ? - Under what load is the current (1.5 mA) measured ? Clarifying these questions will help maybe to understand better the effect. Thanks and regards Felix Meyer mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 13 13:34:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA17161; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:34:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:34:25 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:34:33 -0700 Message-Id: <9704132034.AA26879@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: Hubbard Coil (sort of) Resent-Message-ID: <"PW3Q_.0.-B4.GDKKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Coilites! I have been digging into the literature on parametric transformers and finally have a better understanding of the "official version" of the power transfer characteristics. The following discussion assumes that you have read and understood the basic operation of parametric transformers (PTs). This is jumping the gun a little, but if you do end up experimenting with PTs, it will be helpful. To critique my own idea, I have asked, why is that PTs have not shown anomalous loading characteristics before? The answer is, in the "normal" PT there is loading of the primary by the secondary. This does not occur by EM induction, however. To quote from a paper called "Theory and Performance of Parametric Transformers" by W.Z. Fam "In order to understand the operation of the primary side of the transformer, it is necessary to realize that the primary inductance is also made to vary by the secondary flux. This can be easily seen from figure 1 [which shows a sine voltage source in series with a resistance and a varying inductance] that the common regions of the magnetic circuit are also part of the primary flux path. It is helpful to view this variation in the primary inductance as the reaction of the secondary; and as shown later it plays an important part in the process of energy transfer between the primary and the secondary..." This would appear to negate the possibility of overunity operation of the PT, but all is not lost! Here's a recap of my simple parametric experiment: "Picture a ferrite rod, a fairly big one. A primary is wound around the middle with thick enamelled copper wire. There are two secondaries in series on either side of the primary; these secondaries are WOUND IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS. This means that any EMFs and magnetic fields generated in the secondary by the normal process of induction are cancelled out-- all that is left is the parametric EMF generated by the varying permeability of the core. The primary is part of a tank circuit maintained by a small audio amp running at say 10 KHz (low freq because of core characteristics and high coil inductance). The amp is adjusted to just compensate for resistance losses in the primary. The two series secondaries are also part of a resonant circuit that includes a load in series. the secondary must be tuned to same frequency as the primary for this to work [note: original says half the frequency which is incorrect]. The result: power measurements at input of the primary tank should be less than power through the load." According to the explanation in the article I quoted, the magnetic field of the parametric oscillation that builds up in the secondary changes the inductance in the primary and this results in power loss in the primary circuit. But what if the primary and secondary are made of different materials, with different variation in inductance over the range of the magnetic field? A different arrangement might be used to make this experiment more practical. Imagine a laminated transformer c-core with the magnetic path closed by a Manganese-zinc ferrite. The primary is wound on the c-core and the two bucking secondaries are wound on the ferrite. The c-core has a flat u/B characteristic in the area of operation. The ferrite has a very nonlinear u/B characteristic. The secondary responds to the changing mag field with a highly modulated inductance. The inductance of the primary on the other hand doesn't change very much. According to the article, the power loss from the primary is not as great as the power gain from the secondary! In a working model I would also add a permanent magnet such that the primary and secondary never leave the area of operation which is somewhere above zero B-field. The argument in the article is not based on thermodynamic considerations but on the nature of the materials used. If two materials are chosen with the proper relative characteristics, overunity operation should be achieved. As an aside, this is what I would expect from my nascent time=inertia theory. Two materials with different rates of change of inertia (=inductance) should allow for more work to be done by the system than was put into it, because time rates for the input and output are different. Scott Mckie apparently had the Wanless parametric transformer tested in a resonant configuration and there are affidavits to a 150% power gain. This was of course without my suggested modifications. (I do not have these affidavits yet.) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 13 22:53:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15520; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3351C5B3.5DB7@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:20:44 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment References: <970413122626_1650272985@emout16.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rvi13.0.Oo3.6PSKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Dear All, > > I am glad to present you, a very simple experiment ( 5 minutes to build ) > about the Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment. With this experiment you > can test by yourself, that the centrifugal extraction from the inertial field > of space is possible, that was first demonstrated by Faraday in 1831. > Magnetic field energy act as a MAGNETIC VORTEX if we rotate the magnetic > field on its axis and we can extract free energy to produce electricity. > My device is a demonstrator, this is not a power supply for your home, but > this experiment is only to prove that the Faraday homopolar generator > principle is working, and you can test it by yourself. Hi Jean-Louis Looks like a Tolman Effect generator, except the central magnet causes the electrons to follow a spiral outward path to the rim. Suspect the spiral path causes a greater EMF to be generated that in a straight Tolman spinning disk. What tests have you done to investigate the relationship between output current and driving torque? -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 13 22:59:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA16098; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:58:52 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:58:27 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3356c73a.16370386@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <970413122626_1650272985@emout16.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <970413122626_1650272985@emout16.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uYT702.0.Qx3.QUSKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:26:29 -0400 (EDT), JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >Dear All, > >I am glad to present you, a very simple experiment ( 5 minutes to build ) >about the Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment. With this experiment you >can test by yourself, that the centrifugal extraction from the inertial field >of space is possible, that was first demonstrated by Faraday in 1831. [snip] Jean-Louis, Why do you think this is a free energy generator? Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 00:32:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA23322; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:32:47 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970414033152_144829900@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment Resent-Message-ID: <"dim1N.0.Ji5.TsTKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 13/04/1997 23:53:03 , Felix Meyer wrote : << CONGRATULATIONS --------------- Jean-Louis, this is indeed a very interesting experiment. As you have built it, I would like to ask you some probes: Clarifying these questions will help maybe to understand better the effect. Thanks and regards Felix Meyer mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net >> Dear Felix, My experiment have two main objectives : - Firstly : is only for a demonstration purpose for whose want to build himself and experiment the an Homopolar low cost generator and with simple material. - Secondly : it is for my own feasability study of a real Homopolar O/U generator, and I am interested in the possibility to create a magnetic vortex with a device. This kind device seems to be adapted to create this vortex, but the I don't know today if the instrumental measure is the reflect of the real phenomenon.... Thank you very much for your comments : << - Does the output energy vary, if the disk is hold in different angles with respect to the earth magnetic field ? I ask this to find out, if the generated voltage is produced by the magnetic field in which we are, or if the output is independent of the orientation. - Is the output voltage a linear funcion of the rotating speed ? >> Its a good remark, I haven't tried this measurements, today, but I shall tried this, soon. <<- Is the Voltage (0.5 V) measured with load (mechanical MA-meter) ? or what voltage is measured with a high impedance voltmeter ? - Under what load is the current (1.5 mA) measured ? >> I have used a digital multimeter "Voltcraft VC-506", Voltage measurments : accuracy +- 0.3%, imp > 1 Gohms, Current measurments : acuuracy +-1%, burden voltage 1mV/mA Voltage has been measured with no load, Current has been measured in short-circuit ( burden voltage = 1mV/mA ) I would repeated that this first test is only a demonstration of Faraday Homopolar generator for all science hobbyists which want to test it. I try to introduce the concept : EBTBY = Easy to Build, Try By Yourself Thank you for your input, as soon as I have new results, I shall inform you, Nice to speak with you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 00:33:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA23474; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:33:24 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970414033223_84631130@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: About the Hooper device ? Resent-Message-ID: <"PXbls.0.Zk5.-sTKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Does someone have made the "Motional Field Generator" device of W.J. Hooper ? I would like to know if this device work really or if it is only a mind's picture ? Thanks for your help... Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 01:04:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA25367 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:04:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:04:35 -0700 X-Envelope-From: fepps@halcyon.com Mon Apr 14 01:04:33 1997 Received: from halcyon.com (nobody@chinook.halcyon.com [198.137.231.20]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA25338 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:04:32 -0700 Received: from by halcyon.com with SMTP id AA09823 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:03:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3351AFFD.342D@mail.halcyon.com> Old-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:18:05 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Homopolar Generator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hello Jean-Louis and All, I've just finished looking at your simple Homopolar demonstration, which is very cleverly done. However, I believe it would be a mistake to think that the homopolar generator is in any way a free energy device. In fact, except under very special conditions (liquid electrodes, etc), the HG is extremely inefficient. If you want, I will find you references that show that there IS a back torque or mechanical loading of the rotor as current is taken off. There IS a controversy as to whether the magnetic field rotates with the rotor in this case, and this has importance as far determining whether there is an absolute spatial reference frame a la Newton (or even a la Mach). In other ways, the Homopolar generator as a free-energy device is a major red herring, a false trail laid by the excellent salesmanship of Mr. Depalma. On the other hand, Depalma's earlier experiments with spinning balls and gyroscopes are crucial and need to be replicated. I think Depalma got off track when he extrapolated unusual inertial effects into an electromagnetic framework. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 01:24:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA25962; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970414042341_809159839@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: Puthoff@aol.com Subject: Re : Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment Resent-Message-ID: <"R4kOU1.0.YL6.3dUKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 14/04/1997 07:12:09 , you wrote : << Jean-Louis, Why do you think this is a free energy generator? Robin van Spaandonk >> Unfortunately, I don't think so..... The tests of SUNBURST GENERATOR prove that the efficiency of this machine is UNDERUNITY. These test has been made by Robert Kincheloe, Professor of Electrical Engineering (Emeritus) Stanford University. Bill Beaty has made some excellents tests about this N-Machine you will find all informations at : http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/n-mach.html BUT, BUT....As far as I am concerned I am interested in the possibility to create a MAGNETIC VORTEX with a device. This kind device seems to be adapted to create this vortex, but the I don't know today if the instrumental measure is the reflect of the real phenomenon....If someone have some ideas, you are welcome. Sincerely, Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 01:40:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA27931 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:40:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:40:34 -0700 X-Envelope-From: fepps@halcyon.com Mon Apr 14 01:40:33 1997 Received: from halcyon.com (nobody@chinook.halcyon.com [198.137.231.20]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA27902 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:40:32 -0700 Received: from by halcyon.com with SMTP id AA10251 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:37:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3351B7A3.79B7@mail.halcyon.com> Old-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:50:43 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Homopolar vs. Tolman effect Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Jean-Louis and All, The Tolman effect for Jean-Louis's Homopolar Generator should be extremely small, just from my sense of the magnitudes involved. The current in a homopolar generator is apparently produced at the point of the contacts, and not from inside the disc (I'll have to check that up though). The Homopolar effect is not a free energy effect, it is not an electron inertia effect, and it is fairly well understood in conventional terms, the only sticking point being a lingering debate on whether the magnetic field rotates with the magnet. I told Jean-Louis that I will give a synopsis of that debate after I look up the refs if he is interested. There are plenty of possible rotational effects that need study. For a true Tolman effect generator you need to use heavy ions so that lower rotational speeds will create more charge separation. You could use an electrolyte solution chosen for differences in mass between two oppositely charged ions, and put the solution in a chamber with central and peripheral electrodes and spin it up. Salt water might work. On a different tack, you could build a centrifugal strain-energy generator by spinning a disc of Barium Titanate with, again, central and peripheral electrodes. The piezoelectric material will generate continuous charge under acceleration which could be tapped for power without slowing the disc. If a ring-like stator electrode was put just outside the edge of the disc and held at the same potential level as the axis of the disc a high electric field would be generated at fairly low rotational velocities. James Woodward has done experiments where small nonferrous metal cylinders were rapidly rotated in an electrically neutral chamber and they became charged. The Tolman effect was eliminated because of the steady rotation. This was the Blackett or gravitomagnetic effect previously mentioned in other posts. It seems intuitively obvious to almost eveyone I've talked to that electrostatically charged discs rotated at high speed should show unusual effects. Has anybody done this under controlled conditions? Searl's work contains too mnay unknowns to be of much use. (Just the technical problem of charging such discs would be difficult unless a miniaturized solid-state HV supply was actually inside the disc.) I don't mean to disparage Jean-Louis's experiments. As a talker and a non-doer I have the greatest respect for ANYONE who can even hammer a nail right, much less build something that no-one has ever built before. Salutations, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 07:11:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA20969; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 07:11:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 07:11:25 -0700 Message-ID: <33526539.678A@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:11:21 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: About the Hooper device ? References: <970414033223_84631130@emout12.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a9kDY2.0.U75.CiZKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does someone have made the "Motional Field Generator" device of W.J. Hooper > ? > > I would like to know if this device work really or if it is only a mind's > picture ? > > Thanks for your help... > > Truly, > > Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) I've tinkered a bit with Hooper-like devices, testing them for scalar emission, etc. I have confirmed that a electrostatically shielded capacitor does indeed develop a very small charge near the device, although my device was not so well shielded as Hoopers prototype. I was not however able to reach the current levels Hooper used, due to heat buildup within the device, etc. I have not confirmed the effects of cooling the unit either, as described in Hoopers work. I think the effect of the Motional Electric field device may well be real, although I have read that Hoopers work with the shielded box devices may be deeply flawed. (Slow rate of movement means that the change in the EArths magnetic flux is at such a low frequancy, the shielding would not be very effective, etc.) I have noted that faster rise times and frequancies enhance the effect of the Motional Electric device (higher charge on the capacitor), which is not what I would expect if the electrostatic charge was due to any flaw in the shielding. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 07:24:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA16483 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 07:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 07:24:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: Puthoff@aol.com Mon Apr 14 07:24:45 1997 Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA16416; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Puthoff@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA12972; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970414102353_183534833@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: About the Hooper device ? X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/14/97 1:48:34 AM, vortex-l@eskimo.com wrote: <> Replication attempted by NASA at the Lewis Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio. They reported the effect did not replicate. Hal Puthoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 08:03:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA27438 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:03:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:03:06 -0700 X-Envelope-From: harti@harti.com Mon Apr 14 08:03:04 1997 Received: from mail.bbtt.com ([193.203.161.7]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA27287 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:01:21 -0700 Received: from ns.bbtt.de ([193.203.161.162]) by mail.bbtt.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA14860; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:04:13 +0200 Old-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:04:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199704141504.RAA14860@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: N-machines DO NOT work ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, rvanspaa@eisa.net.au, newman-l@emachine.com X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: ><< Jean-Louis, > > Why do you think this is a free energy generator? > > Robin van Spaandonk > >> > >Unfortunately, I don't think so..... > >The tests of SUNBURST GENERATOR prove that the efficiency of this machine is >UNDERUNITY. These test has been made by Robert Kincheloe, Professor of >Electrical Engineering (Emeritus) Stanford University. > Yes, it was done also pretty poorly.... All other guys I know who have worked and built N-machines never got these same results...also when they built it exactly as the Sunburst machine.... >BUT, BUT....As far as I am concerned I am interested in the possibility to >create a MAGNETIC VORTEX with a device. This kind device seems to be adapted >to create this vortex, but the I don't know today if the instrumental measure >is the reflect of the real phenomenon....If someone have some ideas, you are >welcome. > >Sincerely, > > Truly, Well, Jean-Louis, forget the N-machines, I know some guys who have spent about 100.000 US$ to create a few N-machines and when they did put more money into it, then they got more and more from 80 % to 97 % efficiency... but never really over 100 %. You can see, that if you have a closer look at your N-machine page, that indeed the magnetic field is cutting the wire, BUT it is the wire from your amp-meter !!! There the induction of the voltage takes place ! Rethink that and you will see, that there is nothing unusual ! Also, when high current is drawn from the machine, the brushes go into a nonlinear resistor mode, so that are the "incremental efficiencies" dePalma was publishing... As the resistance of the brushes changes, when current is drawn, it is clear, that "incremental" output power is higher than "incremental" input power.... Also dePalma could never get his N-machines to run with FULL more output power than input power.... He only published these "incremnetal" efficiencies which do not say anything at all, if you have a nonlinear system... So my believe is, you will never get overunity with an N-machine... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com or harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 11:10:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA15987; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33523E34.1580@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 07:24:52 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Homopolar vs. Tolman effect] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"jzDsm1.0.iv3.NCdKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from smtp1.nwnexus.com by mail1.halcyon.com (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/10Nov96-0444PM) id AA07434; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:40:58 -0700 Received: from mx1.eskimo.com by smtp1.nwnexus.com with SMTP id AA14769 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:40:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA27933; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:40:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:40:34 -0700 From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199704140840.BAA27933@mx1.eskimo.com> To: fepps@halcyon.com Subject: Re: Homopolar vs. Tolman effect References: <3351B7A3.79B7@mail.halcyon.com> In-Reply-To: <3351B7A3.79B7@mail.halcyon.com> X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com This is an automated response to your request. Sorry, you cannot post to freenrg-L if you are not a subscriber. If you wish to subscribe, send mail to "freenrg-L-request" with the word "subscribe" in the SUBJECT: line of the message. If you are *already* subscribed to freenrg-L, the software did not recognize your email address. Your address may have changed. Unsubscribe yourself using your old address, then re-subscribe using your new address. For instructions, see http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html If you have continuing problems, contact the list owner at: billb@eskimo.com (Note: this list has been recently ported to new software. The 'listproc' commands no longer work. To get an instruction sheet, send a blank message to freenrg-L-request with the word "help" in the **subject** line of the message. ------------------- returned message follows ------------------- Hi Greg, Jean-Louis and All, The Tolman effect for Jean-Louis's Homopolar Generator should be extremely small, just from my sense of the magnitudes involved. The current in a homopolar generator is apparently produced at the point of the contacts, and not from inside the disc (I'll have to check that up though). The Homopolar effect is not a free energy effect, it is not an electron inertia effect, and it is fairly well understood in conventional terms, the only sticking point being a lingering debate on whether the magnetic field rotates with the magnet. I told Jean-Louis that I will give a synopsis of that debate after I look up the refs if he is interested. There are plenty of possible rotational effects that need study. For a true Tolman effect generator you need to use heavy ions so that lower rotational speeds will create more charge separation. You could use an electrolyte solution chosen for differences in mass between two oppositely charged ions, and put the solution in a chamber with central and peripheral electrodes and spin it up. Salt water might work. On a different tack, you could build a centrifugal strain-energy generator by spinning a disc of Barium Titanate with, again, central and peripheral electrodes. The piezoelectric material will generate continuous charge under acceleration which could be tapped for power without slowing the disc. If a ring-like stator electrode was put just outside the edge of the disc and held at the same potential level as the axis of the disc a high electric field would be generated at fairly low rotational velocities. James Woodward has done experiments where small nonferrous metal cylinders were rapidly rotated in an electrically neutral chamber and they became charged. The Tolman effect was eliminated because of the steady rotation. This was the Blackett or gravitomagnetic effect previously mentioned in other posts. It seems intuitively obvious to almost eveyone I've talked to that electrostatically charged discs rotated at high speed should show unusual effects. Has anybody done this under controlled conditions? Searl's work contains too mnay unknowns to be of much use. (Just the technical problem of charging such discs would be difficult unless a miniaturized solid-state HV supply was actually inside the disc.) I don't mean to disparage Jean-Louis's experiments. As a talker and a non-doer I have the greatest respect for ANYONE who can even hammer a nail right, much less build something that no-one has ever built before. Salutations, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 12:52:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA02606; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:52:46 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970414155023_-234109377@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: bshannon@tiac.net Subject: Re : Re: About the Hooper device ? Resent-Message-ID: <"HpwdU2.0.ce.BieKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: on 14/04/1997 18:57:51 , bshannon@tiac.net (Bob Shannon) wrote : << I think the effect of the Motional Electric field device may well be real, although I have read that Hoopers work with the shielded box devices may be deeply flawed. (Slow rate of movement means that the change in the EArths magnetic flux is at such a low frequancy, the shielding would not be very effective, etc.) I have noted that faster rise times and frequancies enhance the effect of the Motional Electric device (higher charge on the capacitor), which is not what I would expect if the electrostatic charge was due to any flaw in the shielding. >> Thanks Bob for your informations, I have read recently about the Hooper coil : "Direct current is sent running through many layers of a single folded wire. Cancellation of opposing lines of force in adjacent conductors produces a SECONDARY GRAVITY FIELD and voltage gradient across the insulated tubular electrodes (capacitor)". Ok for the voltage gradient on the capacitor, I have understood the main principle of motional fields induced by scalar emission (Nils Rognerud has wrote a very good document about the motional field). But why a SECONDARY GRAVITY FIELD ? Have you noticed some change in the weight of device or some alteration of the air pressure environment around the Hooper device ? Is the High stress of an EM energy should be able to induce some changes or or some shielding effects on the gravity field ? ( personaly I think...yes, but it only thinking today.....I would like to test this effect ) In your experiment of the Barkhausen effect detector, you have built a scalar pulse generator, I think that this device seems adapted to verify if generation of high EM energy stress should be able to induce this secondary gravity field. Have you replaced your scalar translator by the Hooper coil ? I look forward to receive your answer, Nice to speak with you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 13:49:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA27443 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:49:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:49:33 -0700 X-Envelope-From: harti@harti.com Mon Apr 14 13:49:30 1997 Received: from mail.bbtt.com ([193.203.161.7]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA27311 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:48:53 -0700 Received: from ns.bbtt.de ([193.203.161.162]) by mail.bbtt.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA24372; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:52:03 +0200 Old-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:52:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199704142052.WAA24372@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re:N-machines will not work ! Cc: Puthoff@aol.com, JNaudin509@aol.com X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 04:23 14.04.97 -0400, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >On 14/04/1997 07:12:09 , you wrote : > ><< Jean-Louis, > > Why do you think this is a free energy generator? > > Robin van Spaandonk > >> > >Unfortunately, I don't think so..... > >The tests of SUNBURST GENERATOR prove that the efficiency of this machine is >UNDERUNITY. These test has been made by Robert Kincheloe, Professor of >Electrical Engineering (Emeritus) Stanford University. > Yes, it was done also pretty poorly.... All other guys I know who have worked and build N-machines never got these same results...also when they built it exactly as the Sunburst machine.... >BUT, BUT....As far as I am concerned I am interested in the possibility to >create a MAGNETIC VORTEX with a device. This kind device seems to be adapted >to create this vortex, but the I don't know today if the instrumental measure >is the reflect of the real phenomenon....If someone have some ideas, you are >welcome. > >Sincerely, > > Truly, Well, Jean-Louis, forget the N-machines, I know some guys who have spent about 100.000 US$ to create a few N-machines and when they did put more money into it, then they got mor and more from 80 % to 97 % efficiency... but never really over 100 %. You can see, that if you have a closer look at your N-machine page, that indeed the magnetic field is cutting the wire, BUT it is the wire from your amp-meter !!! There the induction of the voltage takes place ! Rethink that and you will see, that there is nothing unusual ! Also, when high current is drawn from the machine, the brushes go into a nonlinear resistor mode, so that are the "incremental efficiencies" dePalma was publishing... As the resistance of the brushes changes, when current is drawn, it is clear, that "incremental" output power is higher than "incremental" input power.... Also dePalma could never get his N-machines to run with FULL more output power than input power.... He only published these "incremnetal" efficiencies which do not say anything at all, if you have a nonlinear system... So my believe is, you will never get overunity with an N-machine... Regards, Stefan. > >Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) >Email : JNaudin509@aol.com >my Overunity WEB Server< >/A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm >WWPager, UIN: 747846 > > > > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 13:56:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA12576; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:56:35 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970414165354_-932662097@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: fepps@halcyon.com Subject: Re : [Fwd: Re: Homopolar vs. Tolman effect] Resent-Message-ID: <"dLtxv.0.O43.0efKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 14/04/1997 20:56:06 , fepps@halcyon.com (Fred B. Epps) wrote : << The Homopolar effect is not a free energy effect, it is not an electron inertia effect, and it is fairly well understood in conventional terms, the only sticking point being a lingering debate on whether the magnetic field rotates with the magnet. I told Jean-Louis that I will give a synopsis of that debate after I look up the refs if he is interested. >> Thanks for your comments Fred, It seems that the Homopolar effect is not a "free energy" effect but as I said in my previous email and on my web document : << As far as I am concerned I am only interested in the possibility to create a MAGNETIC VORTEX with a device. This kind device seems to be adapted to create this vortex, but the I don't know today, if the measure is the reflect of the real physical phenomenon....>> If you could give me some answer about this things below, I'll appreciated very much , this is important for my actual research : - Do you think that the magnetic field is directly linked kinematicly to the originate source ? - If yes, is the magnetic energy turn with the magnetic field ?, In this case, energy which turn on its axis create a vortex, is it true or false ? - If we shall be able to create a magnetic vortex (energy) with magnetic field in axialy rotation, how we could displayed it or proved that it is really exist ? I look forward to receive your answer, Nice to speak with you soon, Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 14:18:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA16558; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <335269E4.4DCE@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:31:17 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hooper Coil electric field Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TtRkS3.0.a24.OyfKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, Bob, and All, This may have some relevance to the discussion of the Hooper Coil. Are you familiar with the experiments that have been done that detect an electric field around a steady conduction current? I refer to: "Detection Of A Force Between A Charged Metal Foil And A Current-Carrying Conductor" Ralph Sansbury, Rev. Sci. Instrum. 56(3), Mar. 1985 "Measurement Of An Electric Field Due To Conduction Currents" W. Farrell Edwards, Utah State University Press, Monograph V. 21 "Continuing Investigation Into Possible Electric Fields Arising From Steady Conduction Currents" W.F. Edwards, Phys. Rev. D, V.14, N.4, Aug 15, 1976 The abstract of one paper sums up this research: "A persistent current in a superconducting wire appears to set up a second order electric field dependent upon the square of the current. The measurements are consistent with the assumption of electric field terms of magnitude (Ev2)/(4pir2c2e) where v is the electron drift velocity [and e is permittivity of free space]. These preliminary results seem to be in disagreement with present electromagnetic theory which predicts a zero field for steady currents in stationary closed circuits." Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 15:17:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA08106; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:07:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:07:00 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970414180429_-1602564346@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question Resent-Message-ID: <"DwBU91.0.a-1.4ggKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Basic question, yes; simple answer--- no. The current distribution in (whatever shape) is determined by the resistivity and uniformity of the material. From the current distribution you do a "simple" vector integration to determine the fields. But in practical terms, if the wire is long, ie. the return wire is not close by and it is relatively straight, then once you get several wire "diameters" away from the wire the field will be nearly circular . Specifically, it is not the shape of the conductor. Keasy From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 15:58:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA03161; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33527DF6.8F9@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:56:54 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Rotating magnetic fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WT7Zv1.0.In.qBhKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis and All, > - Do you think that the magnetic field is directly linked kinematicly to the > originate source ? > > - If yes, is the magnetic energy turn with the magnetic field ?, In this > case, energy which turn on its axis create a vortex, is it true or false ? Unfortunately for your idea, I think the answer is No, the magnetic field does not rotate with the magnet. Accordingly the magnetic energy doesn't either. Although I have a number of papers on this subject, the best experiment in my opinion was one carried out by D.F. Bartlett, an experimentalist of the highest order (he was respnsible for the first measurements of the magnetic field of a displacement current- a VERY tricky proposition). To quote from the abstract, "A cylindrical sample of magnetized steel is spun about its axis inside a hollow, insulated steel sphere. According to the moving-line theory of unipolar induction the rotating magnetic field generates an electric field E=-(w x r) x B in the region interior to the magnet. This field will have the effect of elevating the potential of the enclosing sphere. We have searched in vain for such an effect and conclude that if the magnetic lines of force are moved at all by the rotation of the magnet about its axis they are dragged with a coefficient less than 1.4 X 10-4..."(1) The question arises (analogously to inertial forces), how does the magnetic field know not to move? In less anthropomorphic terms, is the magnetic field pinned to an absolute reference frame based on rotation? If you pick the magnet up the field goes with it. It is only in the case of rotation that the field is fixed! To me that is the really interesting question. Relativity denies an absolute reference frame, and yet one is implied with the homopolar device, and with such simple experiments as spinning a bucket of water (Newton's proof of absolute space). Mach resolved the question by saying that the reference frame did not consist of space, which he considered to be nonexistent, but of the mass of distant bodies, the "fixed stars", as he called them. Wade into into the literature on inertial forces and Mach's principle if you want to see all the underpinnings of conventional physics crumble into ruins. It's fun! Inertially yours, Fred 1) Spinning Magnets and Jehle's Model Of The Electron D.F. Bartlett and others, Phys. Rev. D, V.16, N.12, Dec 15, 1977 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 17:52:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA20256; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:40:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:42:04 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: IN MEMORIAM: Dr. Andrew J. Galambos Resent-Message-ID: <"1YAFf2.0.Oy4.YviKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dr. Andrew J. Galambos died on Thursday, April 10, 1997. I wish to pay gratitude to one of the major innovators of the 20th century. As a classically-educated astrophysicist, Dr. Galambos applied his understanding of the methodology and epistemology of physics to the societal domain. When I was first introduced to his work over 25 years ago, one of the first statements I remember hearing him make was (to paraphrase): "While our physical science technology has indeed progressed in many areas, we are still utilizing exactly the same social science technology as our prehistoric ancestors: only instead of hurling sticks and stones at one another, we now have the capability to hurl nuclear missiles at one another. The solution lies not in the direction of lowering our physical science technology to the level of our volitional science technology, but rather in raising the quality of the latter to be commensurate with that of our physical science technology." The question is how to do this. The question is how to "adjust" the methodology and epistemology of physical science in an operational manner which successfully accommodates the subjective aspects of "volition." >From the founding of his Institute in 1961, Dr. Galambos devoted his life to innovating both a conceptual theory and operational technology to accomplish this end. Some of his volitional technologies have filtered into the mainstream of society over the past 35 years. It is anticipated that this will accelerate with time. As Dr. Galambos once said with respect to our understanding of the universe, "We are at the beginning of the beginning of the beginning...." With love and gratitude for his person, and respect for his cosmological innovations: Sic Itur Ad Astra. Evan Soule', Jr. April 14, 1997 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 18:14:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA12742; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:10:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:10:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:13:25 +0200 Message-Id: <199704150113.DAA01490@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: N-machines DO NOT work ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, rvanspaa@eisa.net.au, newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"fNkqO1.0.x63.pLjKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: < Jean-Louis, > > Why do you think this is a free energy generator? > > Robin van Spaandonk > >> > >Unfortunately, I don't think so..... > >The tests of SUNBURST GENERATOR prove that the efficiency of this machine is >UNDERUNITY. These test has been made by Robert Kincheloe, Professor of >Electrical Engineering (Emeritus) Stanford University. > Yes, it was done also pretty poorly.... All other guys I know who have worked and built N-machines never got these same results...also when they built it exactly as the Sunburst machine.... >BUT, BUT....As far as I am concerned I am interested in the possibility to >create a MAGNETIC VORTEX with a device. This kind device seems to be adapted >to create this vortex, but the I don't know today if the instrumental measure >is the reflect of the real phenomenon....If someone have some ideas, you are >welcome. > >Sincerely, > > Truly, Well, Jean-Louis, forget the N-machines, I know some guys who have spent about 100.000 US$ to create a few N-machines and when they did put more money into it, then they got more and more from 80 % to 97 % efficiency... but never really over 100 %. You can see, that if you have a closer look at your N-machine page, that indeed the magnetic field is cutting the wire, BUT it is the wire from your amp-meter !!! There the induction of the voltage takes place ! Rethink that and you will see, that there is nothing unusual ! Also, when high current is drawn from the machine, the brushes go into a nonlinear resistor mode, so that are the "incremental efficiencies" dePalma was publishing... As the resistance of the brushes changes, when current is drawn, it is clear, that "incremental" output power is higher than "incremental" input power.... Also dePalma could never get his N-machines to run with FULL more output power than input power.... He only published these "incremnetal" efficiencies which do not say anything at all, if you have a nonlinear system... So my believe is, you will never get overunity with an N-machine... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com or harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 22:17:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA11727; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:12:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:12:00 -0700 To: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:06:52 PST Subject: Parametric Amplifier and Fluctuation Coherers Message-ID: <19970414.220657.9926.0.tv@juno.com> References: <9704091849.AA22216@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,6-7,9-10,12,14,16,18-19,21,27-28,33-34,37-38, 45-46,61-62,67-68,71-78 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"z5inA2.0.8t2.VumKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred and other theorists/experimenters, The ideas you present on parametric effects are very worthy of consideration. I am very interested in some kind of parametric amplifier as a possible fluctuation energy coherer. However with reguard to canceled coils.... > Picture a ferrite rod, a fairly big one. A primary is wound around the >middle with thick enameled copper wire. There are two secondaries in >series on either side of the primary; these secondaries are WOUND IN OPPOSITE >DIRECTIONS. This means that any EMFs and magnetic fields generated in the >secondary by the normal process of induction are cancelled out-- all that is >left is the parametric EMF generated by the varying permeability of the core. First, it still seems to me that if two coils are wound on the same core and they are counterwound so that any induced EMF is cancelled the EMF due to changes in permeability would also be cancelled. The induced voltage (EMF) is a result of the rate of change of the total flux inside the coil windings. The changing permeability is just one way to cause a change in the flux. A whole technology of magnetic amplifiers is based on the modulation of permeability in magnetic circuits. I am a great fan of the idea that within the vast collection of phenomena called ferromagnetism there lies a mechanism that may be the cellular automata version of Maxwell's Demon. A device that can organize the random fluctuations of thermal and/or quantum zero point energy fluctuations. I believe that a few people such as Hans Coler, and Westley Gary may have succeeded in demonstrating a fluctuation coherence device of this sort on a small scale. The idea of a parametric amplifier has great merit. However, first principles should also be kept in mind. There must me a source to this energy, unless the principle of cause-and-effect (1st Law) is dismissed. I believe that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics while a fundamental rule of nature does not preclude the organization of fluctuation energy by some "atomic computation" mechanism that would involve the fantastic Alice-In-Wonder-Land negative temperature effects that we seek. Fred, I think we might try building a parametric transformer and find no over unity effect at first and give up discouraged if we don't keep in mind that the phenomena we seek is subtle and elusive. Examine the papers I am sending you about this invention from the days of "Little House on the Prairie". Westley Gary was obviously an extremely patient and observant inventor with little preconceived of what was impossible. I have examined dozens of reports and claims of free energy device and perpetual motion machines. Most loose credibility when examined closely just on available documentation. In fact the only a few such mysteries remain credible in my mind. They include T.H. Moray, Hans Coler, Westley Gary, Alfred Hubbard, and possibly Lester Hendershot. The inventions of Hubbard, Hendershot, and Moray may have been some kind of nuclear battery but may have also involved some the parametric effects that we are interested in. The inventions of Coler and Gary seem to be purely ferromagnetic devices. The invention of Gary apparently never amounted to anything more than a mouse or flea power clockwork-like mechanism. It was therefore ignored in an era when electric power was coming of age. Unless these reports are the results of delusions, it did do something truly anomalous. It is worthy of further investigation. Both the accounts of Hans Coler and Westley Gary have that self consistency to them is hard to dismiss on the judgement of this one man jury (me). Fred, lets keep up this brain storm and see where it leads. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 14 22:35:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA13468; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:26:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:26:09 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:22:26 PST Subject: Re: N-machines DO NOT work ! Message-ID: <19970414.222229.9926.2.tv@juno.com> References: <199704150113.DAA01490@mail.bbtt.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,9-10,12-17 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"nCokA1.0.JI3.m5nKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> Robin van Spaandonk >>Unfortunately, I don't think so..... >>The tests of SUNBURST GENERATOR prove that the efficiency of this >machine is >>UNDERUNITY. These test has been made by Robert Kincheloe, Professor >of Electrical Engineering (Emeritus) Stanford University. I agree, I was at the tests done by Dr. Kincheloe of the last very impressive but definitely underunity N-machine built by Bruce Depalma. The N-Machine and other Homopolar generators are no more over unity than centrifugal pumps !!! But they do make a great low voltage, high current DC generator. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 03:19:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA09171; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:16:11 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970415061140_-500360584@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, fepps@halcyon.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Re : Rotating magnetic fields Resent-Message-ID: <"WZdp3.0.DF2.eLrKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Fred, Evan and All, Thanks you very much at all for your help and your answer at my question : " - Do you think that the magnetic field is directly linked kinematicly to the originate source ? " << Suj : Rotating magnetic fields Date : 15/04/1997 02:07:36 From: fepps@halcyon.com (Fred B. Epps) Unfortunately for your idea, I think the answer is No, the magnetic field does not rotate with the magnet. Accordingly the magnetic energy doesn't either. Although I have a number of papers on this subject, the best experiment in my opinion was one carried out by D.F. Bartlett, ..... >> << Suj : Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment Date : 15/04/1997 00:32:16 From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Dear Jean-Louis, The magnetic field (created by gyroscopic particles) is directly, _mechanically_ linked by such gyroscopic particles back to source from which the gyroscopic particles come, i.e., the aligned atoms. Refer to pages 10 & 11 of Joseph Newman's book. >> I have some matter of thinking about this subject now : This is "The magic lamp" experiment, ( fonts used Courier 10 ) ______________________________Lab's ceiling_____________ I I I I I +---------------------- Electrometer XXX D I / XXX XXX ================ XXX Coil (fixed on lab ceiling) XXX . XXX the disc D is fixed on lab's O L: Lamp . .axis of rotation . . \O/ B : Rotating observer I / \ \O/ A : fixed observer P ======= I ______________.________/_\__________lab's ground In this experiment you have : -a) A big coil ( flat coil ) which produce a high static magnetic field the coil is FIXED on the lab's ceiling b) Inside the coil there is a copper disc, the center of the disc D is FIXED on the lab's ceiling by its center ( to the ground ) c) An electronic Electrometer is connected between the rim of the disc D and the lab's ground or lab's ceiling. d) This electronic Electrometer have an electronic trigger which is able to switch on a LAMP L as soon as its detect a very little potential on the disc D ( it is easy to build this device by using a MosFet gate and an amplificator..), this electrometer is FIXED on lab's ground. e) We need to have two humans observers : - The first guy A is in the lab ( on the ground ) - the other guy B is on the rotating tray P which rotate on the axis of the coil and disc. We have TWO CASES now : 1) IF the magnetic field of the coil IS NOT directly linked mechanically to the originate source (the coil). ( As said Fred ) The Observer A in the lab see : - a static magnetic field and a static disc RESULT : The electrometer indicate no charge on the disc, the lamp is OFF = the observer A is in a darkroom. The Observer B on the rotating plate see : - a moving magnetic field, because there is a relative movement between the moving observer and the disc D as said the relativity. RESULT : The electrometer indicate an induced charge on a disc, the lamp is ON = the observer B is in lighroom !!!! very strange.... :-) 2) IF the magnetic field of the coil IS directly linked mechanically to the originate source (the coil). ( As said Evan ) The Observer A in the lab see : - a static magnetic field and a static disc RESULT : The electrometer indicate no charge on the disc, the lamp is OFF = the observer A is in a darkroom. The Observer B on the rotating plate see : - a static magnetic field and a static disc , because magnetic field is linked mechanically to the coil. RESULT : The electrometer indicate no charge on the disc, the lamp is OFF = the observer B is in a darkroom. Where is the truth ? For whose want to see a better picture than my ascii drawing, I have put a Gif picture in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity/images/magilamp.gif I look forward to receive your comments ( I hope that there is ....). Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 04:00:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA11715; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:53:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:53:52 -0700 Message-ID: <33535E0C.38CD@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:23:00 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, fepps@halcyon.com Subject: Re: Re : Rotating magnetic fields References: <970415061140_-500360584@emout02.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mF_5o.0.vs2._urKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Greg, Fred, Evan and All, > > Thanks you very much at all for your help and your answer at my question : > " > - Do you think that the magnetic field is directly linked kinematicly to the > originate source ? Hi Jean-Louis, I don't see how a magnetic field can transmit torque. Energy transmission via a magnetic field is noramlly caused by field flux distortions. As a rotation field has no field distortions, now could energy be transmitted? I believe your Homopolar demo generates electricity because the mag field generated by the rotation magnet is not constant. A slight uncentering of the magnet or bolt would cause the field surrounding the spinning magnet to vary in density as it spins and induce an EMF in the meter probes. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 06:44:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA30699; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:33:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:33:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3353ADD5.652E@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:33:25 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Parametric Amplifier and Fluctuation Coherers References: <9704091849.AA22216@mail1.halcyon.com> <19970414.220657.9926.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Va0cS.0.bV7.cEuKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tim D Vaughan wrote: > > Hi Fred and other theorists/experimenters, > > The ideas you present on parametric effects are very worthy of > consideration. > I am very interested in some kind of parametric amplifier as a possible > fluctuation energy coherer. However with reguard to canceled > coils.... > > > Picture a ferrite rod, a fairly big one. A primary is wound around > the > >middle with thick enameled copper wire. There are two secondaries in > >series on either side of the primary; these secondaries are WOUND IN > OPPOSITE > >DIRECTIONS. This means that any EMFs and magnetic fields generated in > the > >secondary by the normal process of induction are cancelled out-- all > that is > >left is the parametric EMF generated by the varying permeability of the > core. > > First, it still seems to me that if two coils are wound on the same core > and they are > counterwound so that any induced EMF is cancelled the EMF due to changes > in permeability would also be cancelled. The induced voltage (EMF) is > a result of the rate of change of the total flux inside the coil > windings. The changing permeability is just one way to cause a change > in the flux. A whole technology of magnetic amplifiers is based on the > modulation of permeability in magnetic circuits. This idea of two pairs of counter-wound coils exchanging signals seems to trace back to a file (scalar1.asc?) on Keelynet. I know of many who have tested this, but not found the effects often attributed to the experiment. > I am a great fan of the idea that within the vast collection of phenomena > called ferromagnetism there lies a mechanism that may be the cellular > automata version of Maxwell's Demon. A device that can organize the > random fluctuations of thermal and/or quantum zero point energy > fluctuations. It must be possible, charged particles do this all the time! > I believe that a few people such as Hans Coler, and Westley Gary may have > succeeded in demonstrating a fluctuation coherence device of this sort on > a small scale. There is also the Barkhausen Effect Battery, a variation of a scalar detector published on Bill's web page. > I have examined dozens of reports and claims of free energy device and > perpetual motion machines. Most loose credibility when examined > closely just on available documentation. In fact the only a few such > mysteries remain credible in my mind. They include T.H. Moray, Hans > Coler, Westley Gary, Alfred Hubbard, and possibly Lester Hendershot. > The inventions of Hubbard, Hendershot, and Moray may have been some kind > of nuclear battery but may have also involved some the parametric effects > that we are interested in. The inventions of Coler and Gary seem to be > purely ferromagnetic devices. > > The invention of Gary apparently never amounted to anything more than a > mouse or flea power clockwork-like mechanism. It was therefore ignored > in an era when electric power was coming of age. Unless these reports > are the results of delusions, it did do something truly anomalous. It > is worthy of further investigation. An important point. "Free Energy" researchers appear to seek only ready to use sources of power, rather than working to understand why some systems deliver small, but sometimes usable power, by processes yet unknown. Far more effort is devoted to devices with impressive claims, but dismal performance records. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 06:53:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA32598; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:50:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:50:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3353B1B2.3D44@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:49:54 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Rotating magnetic fields References: <970415061140_-500360584@emout02.mail.aol.com> <33535E0C.38CD@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LW8VG3.0.Cz7.SUuKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > > > Hi Greg, Fred, Evan and All, > > > > Thanks you very much at all for your help and your answer at my question : > > " > > - Do you think that the magnetic field is directly linked kinematicly to the > > originate source ? > > Hi Jean-Louis, > > I don't see how a magnetic field can transmit torque. > > Energy transmission via a magnetic field is noramlly caused by field > flux distortions. As a rotation field has no field distortions, now > could energy be transmitted? > > I believe your Homopolar demo generates electricity because the mag > field generated by the rotation magnet is not constant. A slight > uncentering of the magnet or bolt would cause the field surrounding the > spinning magnet to vary in density as it spins and induce an EMF in the > meter probes. Actually homopolar generators generate current when the magnetic field is constant and centered. Careful measurments of the magnetic field around the spinning homopolar generator (can) show that the field is not wobbeling at all. The idea of the flux rotating with the magnet seems to show a flaw in our mental models of magnetic fields. If we look at the magnetic field like the distortion of a rubber sheet, as in the popular model of the gravitational field, rotation has no meaning to the distortion of that sheet. We do not speak of the Earths gravitational field rotating with the Earth, so why do we try to apply the concept of rotation to the magnetic field? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 07:27:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA25170; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:18:27 +1000 (EST) From: Alan Yates To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Meissner Effect Message-ID: Cipher: None, MD5 Hash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"h2Mtb.0.C96.vsuKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I would like some info on the Meissner effect. In particular, if a high 'strength' magnet is placed upon a piece of ceramic high temp superconductor, before it is super cooled, will the levtation effect occur after the HTS becomes superconductive after cooling with no other external disturbances? Alan. -- Alan Yates - VK2ZAY mailto:alany@ay.com.au 3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/ Sysop AY Communications +61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165 MD5 Message Digest: a94282e1c31d65a502ec2a7f4e239771 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 10:44:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA20379; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:27:55 -0700 (PDT) To: bshannon@tiac.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:19:19 PST Subject: Re: Hans Coler and Parametric Fluctuation Coherers Message-ID: <19970415.101922.9174.0.tv@juno.com> References: <9704091849.AA22216@mail1.halcyon.com> <19970414.220657.9926.0.tv@juno.com> <3353ADD5.652E@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4,6-12,19-20,23-25,28-30 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"yV3q-1.0.L-4.PgxKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and All, > I believe that a few people such as Hans Coler, and Westley Gary may have >> succeeded in demonstrating a fluctuation coherence device of this sort on >> a small scale. There is also the Barkhausen Effect Battery, a variation of a scalar >detector published on Bill's web page. The Barkhausen Effect is mentioned several times in the WWII British Intelligence (Project Paperclip) report about Hans Coler as a possible effect involved in the phenomena. If you can get a small current from properly biassing the core of a coil wrapped with many turns as you describe in the documents on the Bill Beatty's Web pages, that is an example of a small fluctuation coherer in itself. Maybe Coler found a way to enhance this effect many times. It is also curious that Coler and other investigators who examined his devices measured a considerable DC component. Yet there was no apparent rectification going on. A thought experiment to consider: Is it possible to generate a DC component from a coil in a resonant circuit by yanking the core out at the right times ? This is a mechanical version of a parametric amplifier/oscillator. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 10:47:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA21465; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970415201932.21472bba@ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: ksmith@ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 03:31:48 -1100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Re : Rotating magnetic fields Resent-Message-ID: <"yR5b_.0.JF5.-mxKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:49 15/04/97 -0700, you wrote: All big snip >< >The idea of the flux rotating with the magnet seems to show a flaw in >our mental models of magnetic fields. If we look at the magnetic field >like the distortion of a rubber sheet, as in the popular model of the >gravitational field, rotation has no meaning to the distortion of that >sheet. > >We do not speak of the Earths gravitational field rotating with the >Earth, so why do we try to apply the concept of rotation to the magnetic >field? > In my understanding the Earth's G field does rotate with the Earth. Since the earth's magnetic axis is not aligned with the polar axis we have the phenomenon of variation (the difference bwteen True North and Magnetic North) which varies from place to place over the globe. Granted this variation wanders over time (in the order of 10's of years per degree), but the magnetic field is otherwise constant around the globe. If the earth rotated and its'field did not then navigation would be rather tricky . There is no need to expand on this, since the effect is well known, and I have a terrible feeling that I may have missed the point. However it does prove that I am trying hard to keep up .... Ken Ken Smith Auckland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 10:47:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02848; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:38:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:38:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3353BC98.6807@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:36:27 -1000 From: Rick Monteverde Reply-To: monteverde@worldnet.att.net Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Meissner Effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sLhkK.0.Mi.bqxKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alan Yates wrote: > I would like some info on the Meissner effect. In particular, if > a high 'strength' magnet is placed upon a piece of ceramic high temp > superconductor, before it is super cooled, will the levtation effect > occur after the HTS becomes superconductive after cooling with no other > external disturbances? Yes. With the materials like BSCCO or YBCOs that aren't flux melted for enhanced flux pinning, they will lift off. With the enhanced flux-pinners, sometimes the pinning effect is stronger than the push-off, and they don't move much, maybe not at all from what I saw from playing with them. I think the energy to do the work supposedly comes from the absence of magnetic fields within the SC when the supercurrents appear and do work like that. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 11:03:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA08269 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:03:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:03:44 -0700 X-Envelope-From: reed@zenergy.com Tue Apr 15 11:03:42 1997 Received: from inficad.net (root@inficad.net [208.198.100.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA08229 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:03:41 -0700 Received: from ip25.ts1.phx.inficad.com (ip25.ts1.phx.inficad.com [208.198.101.25]) by inficad.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21387 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:07:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by ip25.ts1.phx.inficad.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC498C.E898AC20@ip25.ts1.phx.inficad.com>; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:05:20 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC498C.E898AC20@ip25.ts1.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: N-machines DO NOT work ! Old-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:40:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC498C.E8A1D3E0" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC498C.E8A1D3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, Jean-Louis, forget the N-machines, I know some guys who have spent about 100.000 US$ to create a few N-machines and when they did put more money into it, then they got more and more from 80 % to 97 % efficiency... but never really over 100 %. In 1994, I and several others, invested in and licensed DePalma's = technology. After long delays and much expense in construction, we were = eventually able to test his latest N-machine and found that the overall = efficiency of the generator to be about 70% over a large speed range. = The tests were very thorough and DePalma seemed insistant on skirting = round the issue of back torque resulting from the flux cutting of the = output cable. You just can't get round it! I agree with your = conclusions. Unless you can get round the flux cutting and the back = torque, I believe that there is no possibility of the N Machine ever = being over unity. Has this been a 20 year hoax? Our tests results are = available if you are interested, and you can judge for yourself. - Mike Fisher Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC498C.E8A1D3E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhUSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAdAAAAUkU6 IE4tbWFjaGluZXMgRE8gTk9UIHdvcmsgIQCcCAEFgAMADgAAAM0HBAAPAAoAKAAtAAIASAEBIIAD AA4AAADNBwQADwAKABkAFgACACIBAQmAAQAhAAAAOTFDRTI1Mjc3M0I1RDAxMUI5N0MwMDQwOTU0 MDI3Q0YA9gYBA5AGAGQFAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYA AAAAAEAAOQAg5eolxEm8AR4AcAABAAAAHQAAAFJFOiBOLW1hY2hpbmVzIERPIE5PVCB3b3JrICEA AAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbxJxCWvJyXOkrVzEdC5fABAlUAnzwAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAA AAAeAB8MAQAAABEAAAByZWVkQHplbmVyZ3kuY29tAAAAAAMABhD8WhnpAwAHEE4DAAAeAAgQAQAA AGUAAABXRUxMLEpFQU4tTE9VSVMsRk9SR0VUVEhFTi1NQUNISU5FUyxJS05PV1NPTUVHVVlTV0hP SEFWRVNQRU5UQUJPVVQxMDAwMDBVUyRUT0NSRUFURUFGRVdOLU1BQ0hJTkVTQU5EAAAAAAIBCRAB AAAA0wMAAM8DAADmBQAATFpGdUCgQXX/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4yBgAG wwKDMgPGBxMCg7ozEw19CoAIzwnZOxX/eDI1NQKACoENsQtgbjBnMTAzFCALA2xpvDM2DfALVRQi DAFwA2AGdAWQBUBXZWxsLMggSmUAcC1MCGAEACYsCoUCEHJnEgAgdNRoZQewLQDBaAuAB5BBG8BJ IGtubwfgcyMDcB2QZ3V5BCB3aJRvIBHAdh2Qc3AJ8J8FQAGgCGAFQBkgMC4g4KAwIFVTJAqFdB+g /wUAG/AbMCBgHPAH0R24IGAcbmQfcQnwHWJ5IGT6aSPAcCChBGAWACTxHiDnJGALgCHxaXQchh1x JBU+ZxsgJPQjoiUDA1IgOGUhMCUh4jk3KNENwWlCYwiQbmN5LiogIO5iIKEeIB/gcgqFIjEboN0k YG8qwSDCKNAuCocaOt4gCo8LkRLyDAFjAEAeYOEDoDE5OTQeUiOiEfD/KsEHQCvAHXER4BvAC4Af 4L5zGzAjwAuAI5MZwGMJ8GMR8CPARGVQB0AAwCfbBCAbMWgeoBWQZyoQE3C/AYAr8RWQGQAkcBuQ YR9R7SfTdRGwKXB4ICER8DJCkwWgAIB0cjYgdGkCIH0bwHcdkDfwJSEqsQIwdfsrgwGgbB2QIfEb MDIAH7B/BAAysCJROcEdtyOTAhB1/yOxHXAiUB1jK9IrgSl5K8B+Zh1jHTAeIDEAIfAh02LzInEg gzcwKOAr0yKQC2BfHSEgAjIhMQAZAGUqQFT/HYE5oh9hODIqwSRgHXAFsL0IYGc2QCOiM1UwsWUH gH8yMgCQMgAAcAVAAiAe0Gv+aQAgC4A1QELBO7M2wQQQKwpQPZJiANBrIeFycfdGgRYARnBsRWMo Yx1yGND8dXgiECCgRWM9pSCRJMIWYzkiKkBZCGAganXzOcFKgG4nBUAdMkW0JgC+ITBSCcIfcCYA NkB5CGE9NwJjCkAAkDchKkBVbv85QAQRTZFLckvZSJ8joh1y/0bpHlI+4BnAKrE71yUhOgHLHqAk sG8EEGliAxAmAP09h04F0DrVKrI+0UljK+LnO6BU0SpASGEz0TnyPuB3JAEikC2xeRvwBcAfkGHg eD8gIE9NsUGUR6T7I4EnonYLcAtgOTIGkE8T/1qiJbE4MTICG8Ajok8mSzCeZEBRHQFNgxHwbGYs eF8ZjxqdLe8u/GF1LQXQaXprHZBGBAAxYWF1WWBaSz4iNHAgCFBycGSnaEECQHA6Ly96ZUQu/QWg bWF1Xu9f9y8lYP0VIQIAa1AAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzDgFH7/wUm8AUAACDDgFH7/wUm8 AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAD3kg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC498C.E8A1D3E0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 11:30:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA29024; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33539172.396B@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:32:18 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: parametric transformers work! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Pdfzf1.0.P57.zPyKp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim, Bob, and others, Tim Vaughn and Bob Shannon wrote: > > First, it still seems to me that if two coils are wound on the same core > > and they are > > counterwound so that any induced EMF is cancelled the EMF due to changes > > in permeability would also be cancelled. The induced voltage (EMF) is > > a result of the rate of change of the total flux inside the coil > > windings. The changing permeability is just one way to cause a change > > in the flux. A whole technology of magnetic amplifiers is based on the > > modulation of permeability in magnetic circuits. > > This idea of two pairs of counter-wound coils exchanging signals seems > to trace back to a file (scalar1.asc?) on Keelynet. I know of many who > have tested this, but not found the effects often attributed to the > experiment. Parametric transformers work! They are a commercial device that's been in existence since at least the late 60's. Tim, the mistake you're making is thinking there needs to ANY EM induction for the thing to work. A parametric transformer is carefully designed to eliminate standard induction. The changes in permeability still exist in the secondary even though there is essentailly no magnetic field. From the viewpoint of the secondary, all that is seen is the changing permeability. I think there is some confusion about the nature of a parametric process. Consider a simple pendulum. There are two ways of adding energy to it, the usual way of pushing it from side to side, and the parametric way, which is to increase the LENGTH of the pendulum at certain points of the swing. Tim, once I send you the information on parametric transformers you will clearly see how they work. Bob, there's no signalling going on between the two secondaries. The only energy transaction is between the primary and secondary in the form of a varying permeability or inductance. This is not a scalar device in any way shape and form. My mistake was in representing this as something I came up with instead of something that has a whole literature (I'm looking at an article in IEEE power Engineering transactions as I speak). In a rush this morning -dentist :( more later Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 12:00:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA16390; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:50:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:50:25 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:37:54 PST Subject: Re: parametric transformers work! Message-ID: <19970415.113756.8838.1.tv@juno.com> References: <33539172.396B@mail.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-7,10,12,14,18-48 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"5h8ZT3.0.u_3.ktyKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, Your comments have motivated me to learn more about parametric transformers. I found a book about magnetic amplifiers in the library. It seems to be a substantial technology which has fallen in popularity due to semiconductor devices. I will look for references to canceled coils. I still do not understand how induction occurs just as a result of changing permeability. My understanding was that a decreasing permeability caused a decrease in the total flux in the core. At the molecular magnet level of things we would see a decrease in the population of aligned spins. It seems that the EMF induced in a coil could be the result of a change in the magnetic field produced by the coil itself. But would not opposing coils just cancel. I am looking forward to the information about parametric amplifiers. Thanks, Tim > Parametric transformers work! They are a commercial device that's >been in existence since at least the late 60's. Tim, the mistake >you're >making is thinking there needs to ANY EM induction for the thing to >work. A parametric transformer is carefully designed to eliminate >standard induction. The changes in permeability still exist in the >secondary even though there is essentailly no magnetic field. From the >viewpoint of the secondary, all that is seen is the changing >permeability. I think there is some confusion about the nature of a >parametric process. Consider a simple pendulum. There are two ways of >adding energy to it, the usual way of pushing it from side to side, >and >the parametric way, which is to increase the LENGTH of the pendulum at >certain points of the swing. > Tim, once I send you the information on parametric transformers you >will clearly see how they work. > Bob, there's no signalling going on between the two secondaries. >The >only energy transaction is between the primary and secondary in the >form >of a varying permeability or inductance. This is not a scalar device >in >any way shape and form. My mistake was in representing this as >something I came up with instead of something that has a whole >literature (I'm looking at an article in IEEE power Engineering >transactions as I speak). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 12:49:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA25892; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:41:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:41:42 -0700 Message-ID: <33540423.67C5@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:41:39 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: parametric transformers work! References: <33539172.396B@mail.halcyon.com> <19970415.113756.8838.1.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tEJXy.0.UK6.sdzKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tim D Vaughan wrote: > > Hi Fred, > > Your comments have motivated me to learn more about parametric > transformers. I found a book about magnetic amplifiers in the library. > It seems to be a substantial technology which has fallen in popularity > due to semiconductor devices. I will look for references to canceled > coils. > > I still do not understand how induction occurs just as a result of > changing permeability. My understanding was that a decreasing > permeability caused > a decrease in the total flux in the core. At the molecular magnet level > of things > we would see a decrease in the population of aligned spins. It seems > that > the EMF induced in a coil could be the result of a change in the magnetic > field produced by the coil itself. But would not opposing coils just > cancel. I am looking forward to the information about parametric > amplifiers. > > Thanks, > Tim > Actually, the magnetic fields of the opposed secondaries in a magnetic amplifier do not cancel, but distort such that they do not induce current into the control winding (primary). Opposed magnetic fields do not generally cancel, but simply distort. The exception to this behavior is very limited to situations where the flux from each winding of the coil is directly opposed before a net magnetic field is created, as in a bifilar coil with equal and opposite currents flowing. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 12:49:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA25465; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:37:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:37:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3354031A.5AC9@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:37:14 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: parametric transformers work! References: <33539172.396B@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2a9ny3.0.pD6.jZzKp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred B. Epps wrote: > Parametric transformers work! They are a commercial device that's > been in existence since at least the late 60's. Tim, the mistake you're > making is thinking there needs to ANY EM induction for the thing to > work. A parametric transformer is carefully designed to eliminate > standard induction. The changes in permeability still exist in the > secondary even though there is essentailly no magnetic field. From the > viewpoint of the secondary, all that is seen is the changing > permeability. I think there is some confusion about the nature of a > parametric process. Consider a simple pendulum. There are two ways of > adding energy to it, the usual way of pushing it from side to side, and > the parametric way, which is to increase the LENGTH of the pendulum at > certain points of the swing. Understood. I did not claim that parametric transoformers did not work, nor that they used scalar processes in their operation. One poster described two coils, each with opposed windings eschanging signals. This is what is described in the Keelynet file, not a parametric device. The setup described in the Keelynet file is what I was saying does not perform as described in the Keelynet document, and the recent posting that mentioned this setup. > Tim, once I send you the information on parametric transformers you > will clearly see how they work. > Bob, there's no signalling going on between the two secondaries. The > only energy transaction is between the primary and secondary in the form > of a varying permeability or inductance. This is not a scalar device in > any way shape and form. My mistake was in representing this as > something I came up with instead of something that has a whole > literature (I'm looking at an article in IEEE power Engineering > transactions as I speak). > In a rush this morning -dentist :( more later > Fred Understood. I've played with magnetic amps. They are facinating devices. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 15:55:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA22292; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:35:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:35:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3354024F.229B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:03:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Question] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------796E6194589B" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZuUvo3.0.BS5.MA0Lp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------796E6194589B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got bounced the first time. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile --------------796E6194589B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3353FD41.28E3@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:42:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo Subject: Re: Question References: <65501.265406322@compcafe.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4BE3161F50B8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4BE3161F50B8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff Greaves wrote: > > All the books I've got show nice circular magnetic fields around conveniently > circular conductors when a current passes along them. > A simple (?) question: If the conductor is angular, say triangular, square or > rectangular, is the field still circular around the conductor, sharply > angular following its shape, or somewhere in between? Perhaps it depends upon > the material that the conductor is made of? > Pretty basic stuff, eh? > ---------------------------------------- > >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk > ---------------------------------------- Hi Geoff, Sorry for the delay in answering your question, have been somewhat busy of late. Attached are 3 small Gifs showing a circular field around the three atrticles in question. Hope this helps. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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Wl1YgARdgQYtVQU9UAQFdxjoU2y40IP4iLnYPLocM/KHURNlNso8eobzuRstz45ZzYjDiEYV EAA7 --------------4BE3161F50B8-- --------------796E6194589B-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 20:19:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA13264; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33540AE5.2057@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:10:29 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ysq9K1.0.7F3.N_3Lp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Colin and Others! Colin wrote: > > Oops...But that test will probably not work, since there can be no voltage > measurements taken from within the same coordinate system on the vertical > gravitational component of the g-force. (The g-forces are composed of ... And besides the g-force is small compared to the centrifugal component. > being equal, a homopolar generator disc should give up more voltage > (briefly), if you just give it a few good radial whacks. Perhaps the > efficiency can be improved by repeatedly abusing it ;-) As you say, the Tolman effect only exists during second-order acceleration, which proves it is not the cause of current in the homopolar generator. It would be interesting to see the output of such a generator during 'Tolman' acceleration. If there were large effects, they would result from some interaction of Tolman and other effects, perhaps the Blackett effect, or the Gyromagnetic effect (conductors develop magnetic field in rotation). > We know that the potential difference is also due to the strength of the > magnetic field. Is it possible that the "length" of a spiral conduction > path increases with the magnetic field strength? Perhaps the conductive > disc should be *designed* as a spiral. The longer the spiral, the higher > the voltage?. Is there any proof that the conductive path does traverse > more than 360 degrees? (and do the electrons *know* that their space is > curved?) You must be the reincarnation of Tesla we've all been looking for! I quote from the Tesla article, "Improvement In Unipolar Generators": "But let us now suppose the disc to be subdivided spirally... The difference of potential between a point on the shaft and a point on the periphery will remain unchanged, in sign as well as in amount. The only difference will be that the resistance of the disc will be augmented and that there will be a greater fall of potential from a point on the shaft to a point on the periphery when the same current is traversing the external circuit..." [here referring to a Barlow disc, or homopolar motor..] When Tesla says "subdivided spirally", he means that the conducting disc is subdivided by nonconducting spirals. I haven't read closely enbough to see exactly what he had in mind, but it certainly SOUNDS similar to what you're saying. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 15 20:25:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA12303; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:12:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:12:49 -0700 Message-Id: <33540ED2.549D@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:27:14 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Switched coils Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JOK_63.0.703.lE4Lp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tim Vaughan says: > A thought experiment to consider: > Is it possible to generate a DC component from a coil in a resonant > circuit by yanking the core out at the right times ? This is a > mechanical version of a parametric amplifier/oscillator. In the context of parametric devices, the interesting question to me is whether a switched capacitor or inductor is the same as a smoothly varied, unshunted C or L in a parametric circuit. Maxwell and I discussed the capacitive version and came to the conclusion that there SHOULD be no charge buildup in a resonant circuit with a switched capacitor. However, I have a paper from the 30's by a man named Barrow that showed current creation in a switched capacitor circuit. Jean-Louis Naudin's Magnetic Compression pump circuit uses a one-shot switched inductor, but I don't think he was looking for this effect. Someone need to try this because the energy that can be generated in a parametric circuit is limited only by the energy-storing capabilities of the reactance, and thermodynamically, that is theoretically, it takes NO energy to switch. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 16 08:13:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA25319; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:53:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:53:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:55:35 +1000 (EST) From: Alan Yates To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Meissner Effect In-Reply-To: <3353BC98.6807@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Cipher: None, MD5 Hash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wqDaS.0.VB6.iVELp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Alan Yates wrote: > > > I would like some info on the Meissner effect. In particular, if > > a high 'strength' magnet is placed upon a piece of ceramic high temp > > superconductor, before it is super cooled, will the levtation effect > > occur after the HTSC becomes superconductive after cooling with no > > other external disturbances? > > Yes. With the materials like BSCCO or YBCOs that aren't flux melted for > enhanced flux pinning, they will lift off. With the enhanced > flux-pinners, sometimes the pinning effect is stronger than the > push-off, and they don't move much, maybe not at all from what I saw > from playing with them. I think the energy to do the work supposedly > comes from the absence of magnetic fields within the SC when the > supercurrents appear and do work like that. OK, My idea was something to the effect of: Use a 'normal' coil to then drop the magnet back down by loading it. The gravitational energy, mgh, could be recovered from the coil. The main reason that I asked if it levitates by itself is that if after you have brought the magnet back to 'earth' you could release the load and allow it to rise again, then repeat the process to withdraw the energy stored again and again. This obviously can't work, the energy must come from somewhere to levitate the magnet in the first place? I was hopeing that zero point energy may perturb the magnet/SC enough to get a super current going and begin levtation spontanously. A way to polarize the quantum foam? I wish I had some HTSC material to play with, I have a good idea what shape the device would have to be to conduct the experiment I am suggesting, or has it been done before? It sounds too simple. Alan. -- Alan Yates - VK2ZAY mailto:alany@ay.com.au 3rd yr Elec Eng UNSW http://www.ay.com.au/~alany/ Sysop AY Communications +61 2 9905 2883 _or_ 0419 424 165 MD5 Message Digest: d6a5b1aeb80e3103ded4212ffb2553af From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 16 10:27:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA12938; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:55:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:55:08 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC4A4C.7ACC23A0@ip48.ts2.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: N-machines DO NOT work Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:49:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"8lu1n3.0.4A3.eHGLp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, Jean-Louis, forget the N-machines, I know some guys who have spent about 100.000 US$ to create a few N-machines and when they did put more money into it, then they got more and more from 80 % to 97 % efficiency... but never really over 100 %. In 1994, I and several others, invested in and licensed DePalma's = technology. After long delays and much expense in construction, we were = eventually able to test his latest N-machine and found that the overall = efficiency of the generator to be about 70% over a large speed range. = The tests were very thorough and DePalma seemed insistant on skirting = round the issue of back torque resulting from the flux cutting of the = output cable. You just can't get round it! I agree with your = conclusions. Unless you can get round the flux cutting and the back = torque, I believe that there is no possibility of the N Machine ever = being over unity. Has this been a 20 year hoax? Our tests results are = available if you are interested, and you can judge for yourself. - Mike Fisher Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 16 11:42:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA07814; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:20:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:20:59 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970416141824_-1134279801@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Subject: About Parametric power conversion Resent-Message-ID: <"SDfkv2.0.sv1.9YHLp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, You will find in my web site a very interesting document about the main principle of "Parametric power conversion". ( Thanks to Fred Epps....). The direct link is : http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/paraconv.htm Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 16 13:22:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA30621; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:06:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:06:00 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970416160237_-1669454490@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: reed@zenergy.com Subject: Re : RE: N-machines DO NOT work Resent-Message-ID: <"Shcm31.0.BU7.c4JLp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 16/04/1997 20:43:36 , you wrote : << Date : 16/04/1997 20:43:36 From: reed@zenergy.com (Reed Huish) Well, Jean-Louis, forget the N-machines, I know some guys who have spent about 100.000 US$ to create a few N-machines and when they did put more money into it, then they got more and more from 80 % to 97 % efficiency... but never really over 100 %. >> Thank you very much Reed, for your helpfull information, you have saved my research's time on N-Machine. I am convinced now, that N-Machines is not the good way achieve the Overunity..... I have already put this comments below, at the end of my report : << The tests of SUNBURST GENERATOR prove that the efficiency of this machine is UNDERUNITY. These tests has been made by Robert Kincheloe, Professor of Electrical Engineering (Emeritus) Stanford University. You will find this test report at : http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/dpalma5.asc >> If you have some tests reports on N-Machines, I am interested, it will avoid waste of time in research of some Overunity explorers. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server< /A> : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 16 13:23:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA12494; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33552F07.5B5A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:56:56 -1000 From: Rick Monteverde Reply-To: monteverde@worldnet.att.net Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Meissner Effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CtwWi.0.833.qzILp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alan - > OK, My idea was something to the effect of: Use a > 'normal' coil to then drop the magnet back down by > loading it. The gravitational energy, mgh, could be > recovered from the coil. The main reason that I asked if > it levitates by itself is that if after you have brought > the magnet back to 'earth' you could release the load and > allow it to rise again, then repeat the process to > withdraw the energy stored again and again. I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Sounds like you have a supply of mass above the SC, and in effects you're reinventing the water wheel, tapping mgh as it streams from higher to lower. In any case, I think the energy does come from somewhere in a conventional sense. If the SC were just warmed and cooled repeatedly, maybe it would 'pump' a permanent magnet, for instance. But heating and cooling is very inefficient. An analogy is raising and lowering the temperature of a ferromagnetic 'load' back and forth across its Curie point while near a magnet. Is this really a source of free energy? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 16 17:20:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA23279 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:20:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: gyro@centuryinter.net Wed Apr 16 17:19:46 1997 Received: from host.ot.centuryinter.net (www.ot.centuryinter.net [206.65.164.250]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA23223 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anxp17.av.centuryinter.net by host.ot.centuryinter.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/16Aug95-0520PM) id AA07722; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:18:07 -0400 Message-Id: <33556BFE.2BCB@centuryinter.net> Old-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:17:02 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: hello ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: can some one tell me if i'm e mailing the group for the microwave powered lawnmower engine ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 16 17:31:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA21256; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:26:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:26:57 -0700 Message-Id: <33556E01.401E@centuryinter.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:25:37 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: hello ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XXzdq1.0.2C5.GvMLp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: is this working ? am i posting to the free energy group ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 17 01:08:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05322; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:54:50 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: andrew cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hello ? In-Reply-To: <33556E01.401E@centuryinter.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kd43z3.0.4J1.-STLp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, andrew wrote: > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:25:37 -0500 > From: andrew > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: hello ? > Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:26:57 -0700 > Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > is this working ? am i posting to the free energy group ? > > yep ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 17 14:30:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA21838; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:30:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:30:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3356961A.21D1@centuryinter.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:28:58 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: mower Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qdKXc3.0.zK5.ZPfLp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, i'm trying to get some information on how to build one of those water powered lawnmower engines. I've got a motor and a magnetron but don't know how to put them togther right! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 17 18:32:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA24720; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:29:00 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: hello ? To: andrew cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <33556E01.401E@centuryinter.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pvLso2.0.926.OyiLp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, andrew wrote: > is this working ? am i posting to the free energy group ? > > yes From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 17 19:08:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA11837; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:08:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:08:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:05:17 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: hello ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: andrew , freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"U3qyd.0.iu2.8UjLp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Steve Ekwall wrote: > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, andrew wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:25:37 -0500 > > From: andrew > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: hello ? > > Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:26:57 -0700 > > Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > > is this working ? am i posting to the free energy group ? > > > > > > yep > > ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ > > Since you are paying to post your query, the answer should be obvious. No, you are not posting to the (a) free energy group. Wake up... There is no free energy group, there is no free lunch, there is no free anything. Oh, sure, you think sunshine is free, but then you die, don't you? And, just so you don't get too cocky, you need to realize that our sun will die too. When you die you'll be pushing up daisies and they'll think that they're getting a free ride, and then they'll die and feed something else which thinks they've found a way around it and then... It goes on and on, and so the only way that any one thing can live forever is for everything else to die. Maybe... If you (me, us, we) can find a way around this problem, maybe we can find a way to live forever. (Well, at least until someone shoots us!) Which brings us to the next problem... Most of us would like to live forever, and some of us would be willing to kill to achieve that goal. Genetically we do it by competing with, and killing, sperm which gets in our way. On this side of it we write witty posts and try to intimidate those who disagree wuth us and thereby try to eliminate them from the arena. Get it? John Fields -------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 17 21:08:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA16987 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:08:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: jarbou@slkc.uswest.net Thu Apr 17 21:08:44 1997 Received: from slkc1.slkc.uswest.net (slkc1.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.1]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA16954 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jerryco (dialup93.slkc.uswest.net [207.108.178.93]) by slkc1.slkc.uswest.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA03511 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:08:20 -0600 Message-ID: <33570192.2226@slkc.uswest.net> Old-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:07:30 -0700 From: jared bouck Reply-To: jarbou@slkc.uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: gravity resonance coil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: ok.. i have unsubscribed to this so i dont have so much asorted mail... if you want an up date or have any questions email me personaly 4/17/97 i have finished winding the main inner coil, and have filled the donut with giyclern and have started winding the outer coil, allso i have found an digital power suply wich will make calabrating this much easier From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 18 12:41:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA20537; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:41:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:41:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199704181942.PAA13643@ns.bluegrass.net> From: "SAM GORDON" To: Subject: Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:42:09 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yfCa72.0.o05.cvyLp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Fred B. Epps > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment > Date: Tuesday, April 15, 1997 7:10 PM > > Hi Colin and Others! > > Colin wrote: > > > > Oops...But that test will probably not work, since there can be no voltage > > measurements taken from within the same coordinate system on the vertical > > gravitational component of the g-force. (The g-forces are composed of > > ... And besides the g-force is small compared to the centrifugal > component. > > > being equal, a homopolar generator disc should give up more voltage > > (briefly), if you just give it a few good radial whacks. Perhaps the > > efficiency can be improved by repeatedly abusing it ;-) > > As you say, the Tolman effect only exists during second-order > acceleration, which proves it is not the cause of current in the > homopolar generator. It would be interesting to see the output of such a > generator during 'Tolman' acceleration. If there were large effects, > they would result from some interaction of Tolman and other effects, > perhaps the Blackett effect, or the Gyromagnetic effect (conductors > develop magnetic field in rotation). > > > We know that the potential difference is also due to the strength of the > > magnetic field. Is it possible that the "length" of a spiral conduction > > path increases with the magnetic field strength? Perhaps the conductive > > disc should be *designed* as a spiral. The longer the spiral, the higher > > the voltage?. Is there any proof that the conductive path does traverse > > more than 360 degrees? (and do the electrons *know* that their space is > > curved?) > > You must be the reincarnation of Tesla we've all been looking for! I > quote from the Tesla article, "Improvement In Unipolar Generators": > > "But let us now suppose the disc to be subdivided spirally... The > difference of potential between a point on the shaft and a point on the > periphery will remain unchanged, in sign as well as in amount. The only > difference will be that the resistance of the disc will be augmented and > that there will be a greater fall of potential from a point on the shaft > to a point on the periphery when the same current is traversing the > external circuit..." [here referring to a Barlow disc, or homopolar > motor..] > > When Tesla says "subdivided spirally", he means that the conducting > disc is subdivided by nonconducting spirals. I haven't read closely > enbough to see exactly what he had in mind, but it certainly SOUNDS > similar to what you're saying. > Fred > If you wanted to experiment with a spirally subdivided armature you could have someone with a cad package to draw the conductor pattern with the correct conductor thicknesses, make a photocopy on a sheet of transparency paper, then iron it on a lightly sanded, clean copper clad circuit board, then etch it. This wouldn't cost much depending on the circuit board size. Of course you would have to cut out the circle best you could. Give it a try. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 18 13:56:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA01070; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:55:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:55:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3357DF77.5A4D@centuryinter.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:54:15 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hello ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tXcnc3.0.YG.K_zLp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Fields wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Steve Ekwall wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, andrew wrote: > > > > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:25:37 -0500 > > > From: andrew > > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > Subject: hello ? > > > Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:26:57 -0700 > > > Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > > > > is this working ? am i posting to the free energy group ? > > > > > > > > > > yep > > > > ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ > > > > > Since you are paying to post your query, the answer > should be obvious. > > No, you are not posting to the (a) free energy group. > > Wake up... There is no free energy group, there is no free lunch, there > is no free anything. Oh, sure, you think sunshine is free, but then you > die, don't you? > > And, just so you don't get too cocky, you need to realize that our sun > will die too. > > When you die you'll be pushing up daisies and they'll think that > they're getting a free ride, and then they'll die and feed something > else which thinks they've found a way around it and then... > > It goes on and on, and so the only way that any one thing can live > forever is for everything else to die. > > Maybe... > > If you (me, us, we) can find a way around this problem, maybe we can find > a way to live forever. (Well, at least until someone shoots us!) > > Which brings us to the next problem... > > Most of us would like to live forever, and some of us would be > willing to kill to achieve that goal. > > Genetically we do it by competing with, and killing, sperm which gets in > our way. > > On this side of it we write witty posts and try to intimidate those who > disagree wuth us and thereby try to eliminate them from the arena. > > Get it? > > John Fields > -------------- i think so ! -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ? ?...The truth is out there, ? ? if you know where to look...? ? -andrew r. ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 19 03:30:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA31197; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:30:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:30:21 -0700 Message-ID: <33589E8B.34A8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:59:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gDeRE2.0.Id7.zw9Mp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I am now starting to built my "Close the loop" unit. I feel very confident as I have now built 6 variations of my orignial unit and have backed this design with many QField simulations and actual testing. Rest assured you will all know the microsecond the loop closes. Wheather the loop closes or not is NOT the real issue here. My testing and that of others has shown that a magnet can do work. The real issue is where the energy is coming from and what the cost of using that energy will be. Any takers? -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 19 03:56:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA00167; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:56:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:56:21 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:00:40 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Resent-Message-ID: <"C4LQo2.0.32.JJAMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:59 PM 4/19/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi All, > > I am now starting to built my "Close the loop" unit. I feel very >confident as I have now built 6 variations of my orignial unit and have >backed this design with many QField simulations and actual testing. > > Rest assured you will all know the microsecond the loop closes. > > Wheather the loop closes or not is NOT the real issue here. My >testing and that of others has shown that a magnet can do work. The >real issue is where the energy is coming from and what the cost of using >that energy will be. Any takers? [snip] Of course a magnet can do work. So can a spring. Why don't you let an unbiased outfit like Earthtech, which has has standing offer to test overunity devices for free, test your gadget and publish the energy output? Positive results guarantee a fast startup for you - and at no cost to you. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 19 06:03:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA09567; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:03:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:03:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:13:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970419080241.3d2733f0@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: article might help stimulate Resent-Message-ID: <"pL7Wg3.0.OL2.tACMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:00 AM 4/19/97 -0800, you wrote: Hello All, a friend sent me this recent article and I thought in it was a different way to possibly look some of the ou efforts being done in this group. MIKE SLIVINSKI Interesting article in today's New York Times. Research Suggests Universe Has an 'Up' and 'Down' A Universe With Ups and Downs? April 18, 1997 By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD Measurements by scientists have suggested for the first time that the universe has an "up" and a "down." The observation, if correct, would be one of the most surprising and fundamental new insights about the universe to emerge in recent years. The notion that space is uniform, that it is the same in all directions, with no north and south or up and down, is a major tenet of modern cosmology, backed by Einstein's theory of relativity. The findings could force scientists to reconsider aspects of Einstein's theory, rethink some ideas about the birth of the universe and the possible existence of other universes. They also raise questions about the speed of light, especially whether it may not be always precisely the same. In an analysis of radio waves from 160 distant galaxies, physicists at the University of Rochester and the University of Kansas made the startling discovery that the radiations rotate as they move through space, in a subtle corkscrew pattern unlike anything observed before. A complete turn of the corkscrew appeared to occur every one billion miles the radio waves travel. These effects are in addition to what is known as the Faraday effect, a polarization of light caused by intergalactic magnetic fields. Even more surprisingly, the magnitude of these newly observed rotations appear to depend on the angle at which the radio waves move in relation to a kind of axis of orientation running through space. The more parallel the direction of travel of the wave is with the axis, the greater the rotation. The reason for this remains unknown. This axis of orientation is not a physicial entity, but rather defines a direction of space that somehow determines how light travels through the universe. As observed from Earth, the discoverers said, the axis runs one way toward the constellation Sextans and the other toward the constellation Aquila. Which way is up and which way down, whether toward Sextans or Aquila, would be a matter of arbitrary choice. The discovery was made by Dr. Borge Nodland of Rochester and Dr. John Ralston of Kansas, using radio-wave observations made by different astronomers around the world. In a report to be published on Monday in Physical Review Letters, the two physicists concluded on a note of excitement tempered with caution. "Barring hidden systematic bias in the data," they wrote, the behavior of electromagnetic radiation propagating over vast distances "indicates a new cosmological effect." In an announcement by the University of Rochester on Thursday, Nodland said: "The big news is that perhaps not all space is equal, for as far back as we can peer in time. This work defies the notion that there is no 'up' or 'down' in space." Ralston said, "Our observational data suggest that there is a mysterious axis, a kind of cosmological north star that orients the universe." Few other physicists and cosmologists have had a chance to read the journal report, but they agreed that the research must be tested thoroughly before the conclusions can be accepted. "It would be a really profound change in physics, if it is true," said Dr. P. James E. Peebles, a Princeton University astrophysicist. Dr. Stephen Maran, an astronomer at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., said: "Anytime you find a new effect globally in the sky, the crucial issue is always whether you have correctly taken account of systematic errors in the observations. And any result of this potential magnitude is going to be viewed with considerable skepticism until new experiments can be done to verify it." In their report, Nodland and Ralston constructed a mathematical theory that could explain the observations. The data indicate that light actually travels through space at two slightly different speeds. Such a mismatch in speeds would cause the polarization plane to rotate in a certain familiar manner. It is the way physics students see when they pass light through corn syrup and look at the light with polarizing filters. The physicists say the axis of orientation they have inferred would appear to be along different lines in different parts of the universe, but they would be parallel to the one observed from Earth. Because the findings run counter to the idea that all space is uniform and that the speed of light in a vacuum is always the same, the implications of the research could be enormous. For example, scientists might have to reconsider the concept that the Big Bang, the theorized moment of cosmic origin, was completely symmetric. "Perhaps it was not a perfect Big Bang, but a Big Bang with a twist to space and time," Ralston said. "Such a twist would be seen today as a ripple of nonuniformity, perhaps as the axis represents." Nodland also speculated that the observed rotations could be the first evidence for physicists who have theorized the existence of other universes. If the universe in which people live was asymmetric at creation, he said, it raises the possibility of the simultaneous creation of another universe with an opposite twist. Concluding a summary of the findings for the Internet, Nodland said, "At this point, the question of what is truly underlying the effect we see is as wide open as space itself." Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company >>> End of Attachment From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 19 17:59:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07092; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:58:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:58:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:03:29 +1000 Message-Id: <199704200103.LAA12370@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: information required on the volkpodt principle Resent-Message-ID: <"qRzxT1.0.8j1.4fMMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >In my research on the testakica ml I came across a mention of the volkpodt or volport principle can some one on the newsgroup please enlighten me to as to what is says and how it is applied Geoff http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 19 17:59:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07196; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:59:06 -0700 Message-ID: <335984A1.2577@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:51:13 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Faraday Homopolar Generator Experiment References: <199704181942.PAA13643@ns.bluegrass.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tAX9y2.0.El1.CfMMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: SAM GORDON wrote: > If you wanted to experiment with a spirally subdivided armature you > could > have someone with a cad package to draw the conductor pattern with the > correct conductor thicknesses, make a photocopy on a sheet of transparency > paper, then iron it on a lightly sanded, clean copper clad circuit board, > then > etch it. This wouldn't cost much depending on the circuit board size. Of > course > you would have to cut out the circle best you could. Give it a try. I've disassembled pancake style motors that have an etched board disk for a rotor. I think you could just use such a ready-made motor for testing. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 19 19:07:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA24272; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:07:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:07:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199704200204.TAA19581@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: Re: Newman motor questions Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:35:17 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q4fSR1.0.vw5.QfNMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- I have some questions for Ralph Hartwell and/or Evan Soule. I am asking in open forum because I think everyone may be interested in the answers. 1. In the Newman Generators switching occurs before current flows and the electron flow is reversed back into the battery every one hundred and eighty degrees. My question is two fold, first the commutator in the Newman Motor is in contact with the input current long enough for a LOT of current to flow. If this is so does this motor recharge the batteries? Do the batterries charge up or do they discharge? 2. How long do the batteries last? 3. does the capacitors capture the current that flows and feed this captured energy back into the battery. 4. How much horsepower does this motor produce. In the diagram it says to use two thousand volts, but in the video, 12 to 36 volts is used. How much horsepower will different voltages produce? 5. Is the New Newman motor diagram based on the motor that was built by the man in the video, or did he get this diagram and build the motor based on the diagram. 6. Is there only motor windings or is there a second set of generator windings, wound parallel to the motor windings? 7. If there is a generating effect, will it occur with 12 volts input or must the voltages be higher. if so how much higher? 8. The diagram mentions 56 equal lengths of wire in parallel, I assume this means that you wind one wire that is approximately one fifty sixth of the total lengtn and when this one is wound you start with a second wire that has the same starting point and proceed to wind this one next, then continue on until all fifty six lengths are wound, each starting wire hooked in common and each ending wire hooked to the previously wound wire. The alternative would be to have fifty six spools. Which is correct? 9. Or is this a typo? Is it actually fifty six equal lengths wound on the cores in series? 10. I assume that non polarized capacitors are used. What is the minimum and maximum capacity in microfarads for each capacitor or bank of capacitors. 11. Are there any tables of torque and RPM for a given input voltage. 12. I think I am repeating myself here but the motor in the video runs but does it actually recharge its batteries to the point that no top off is needed. 13. does the back emf toast the battery and if/so or if/not how long can one expect the battery to last. 14. Magnets can be found for practicly free to a good scrounger from junked permanent magnet motors, if the power is only fifty percent of that with neodyneum magnets this is no problem, "IF" the motor still will charge its own battery. Do the magnets only determine the power level or is the recharging capability of the motor depend upon the strength of the magnets? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 19 21:12:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA22307; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 21:11:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 21:11:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 21:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704200410.VAA25963@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"cSvlL1.0.MS5.6UPMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Wheather the loop closes or not is NOT the real issue here. My >testing and that of others has shown that a magnet can do work. The >real issue is where the energy is coming from and what the cost of using >that energy will be. Any takers? > Hi Greg, >From what I've observed on my models it looks like the energy could be due to centrifugal acceleration the steel ball receives from the magnetic fields of the permanent magnets. Similar to the way the Voyager spacecraft gets energy by flying past the outer planets, to gain power and acceleration from the gravitational fields, to carry it out of the solar system. If the magnetic field is due to electrons spinning and this is due to energy powered from the ether, ZPE, the vacuum, tachyon ect. then it would seem to be an unlimited source of energy. Best Regards Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 08:33:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA24088; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 08:32:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 08:32:55 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC4D76.32080F80@cookie-monster.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Tour de Sol Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:26:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LGa5T2.0.Hu5.cSZMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would like to hear Ideas for a Energy-Efficient, eviroment friendy, and long range car. BTW: It helps if the parts are low cost and easy to get or make. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 09:55:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA19560; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:55:27 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970420125424_-798606443@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Parametric amplification tests results Resent-Message-ID: <"Y8Gv43.0.Wn4.zfaMp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, Today, I have conducted some experiments on parametric power conversion, you will find some electronics schemes, scope pictures and tests results on my web site... The direct link is : http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/paraconv.htm Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 10:30:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA22804; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <335A1D7F.2641@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 06:43:27 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: quinney@inforamp.net Subject: homopolar generators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O6ap22.0.9a5.VAbMp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Sam Gordon and Bob Shannon said: > > If you wanted to experiment with a spirally subdivided armature you > > could > > have someone with a cad package to draw the conductor pattern with the > > correct conductor thicknesses, make a photocopy on a sheet of transparency > > paper, then iron it on a lightly sanded, clean copper clad circuit board, > > then > > etch it. This wouldn't cost much depending on the circuit board size. Of > > course > > you would have to cut out the circle best you could. Give it a try. > > I've disassembled pancake style motors that have an etched board disk > for a rotor. I think you could just use such a ready-made motor for > testing. Presumably, the "you" being referred to is Colin Quinney. Colin, I can send you the Tesla material I have, plus an article by Oliver Nicholson where he states that Tesla's homopolar design could be an o/u device (I doubt it myself). The discussion of electrons travelled in curved lines reminds me of my investigation of the Corbino effect, a variation of the Hall effect. If you put a radial current through a disc of Bismuth (for greatest effect) and there's a magnetic field with lines 90 degrees to the plane of the disc, a Corbino current will flow axially in the disc. This arises from the fact that the equipotential lines become curved by the field. (See any book on the Hall effect for more explanation). This current can be intercepted and measured if there is a small radial slit in the disc. I discussed a variation of the Corbino effect which could be o/u, but nobody saw fit to comment, so I dropped it. If the above static magnetic field is replaced by one that varies from 0-300 gausses with no change in direction, a radial current will flow in the disc, which could be tapped for power. This current is not due to EM induction, it's due to the Hall effect. As far as I can tell, there is no energetic reaction from the disc to the magnet. The Hall effect is a sort of gyromagnetic effect, which are nonreciprocal processes--action with no reaction! The mag field is small, it could be supplied by the inductor in a resonant circuit. Like I said, I see no reactive force from the disc to the solenoid, so the only losses would be in the resistance of coil etc. If anybodys interested, I will write with more details on construction. Fred BTW, Greg, if you're reading, what is the shape of a magnetic field around a current flowing radially in a metallic disc? I'm having a hard time visualizing it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 11:06:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA17792; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:06:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:06:31 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:08:57 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: GYROSCOPIC ACTIONS ..... Resent-Message-ID: <"i_3I11.0.tL4.aibMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: New Evidence of Anti-Gravity Possibility for the Complete Parity Breaking of Gravity and the Existence of Anti-Gravity: Evidence from Free-Fall Experiment Using a Spinning Gyro by Hideo Hayasaka, Haruo Tanaka, Toshiyuki Hashida, Tokushi Chubachi and Toshiki Sugiyama Faculty of Engineering, Tohoku University, Aobaku, Sendai 980, Japan Matsushita Communication Ind. Co. Ltd., Midoriku, Yokohama 226, Japan --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Free-fall experiment of a spinning gyro enclosed in a capsule has been conducted in order to investigate the topological effect of an object's spinning on the fall-acceleration. The topological effect is due to the gauge term of de Rham's cohomology which couples with the invariant angular momentum on a mirror transformation. The theory anticipates the generation of a twisted field that leads to the additional anti-gravity whose strength is different in lefthand and righthand spinning around an axis. For ten runs of the repeated fall experiments, in which each run consists of the fall-time measurements for the lefthand (VIEWED FROM ABOVE), righthand and no spinning about the vertical axis. The fall-acceleration g(R) of the right-spinning is significantly smaller than g(L) of the left-spinning at 18,000 rpm, with the latter being almost identical with g(O) of no spinning, without exception. Our experimental system is composed of the following main parts: (a) fall-tower of 300 cm in height, (b) five pairs of laser apparatus placed at upper, middle, and lower positions along the fall-tower, (c) two time-counters (two frequency-counters with accuracy of 10^(-6)sec ) which were inserted between the upper and middle position, and between the upper and lower position, respectively, (d) a gate circuit for (c), (e) an electro-magnet, and (f) a drive apparatus of a gyro whose rotor-mass, radius, and inertial moment are 175 g, 2.9 cm, and 969.5 gcm. Various techniques have been used in order to fall the capsule enclosing the gyro exactly along the vertical axis. The main results are summarized in the following: The mean value of the difference between g(R) and g(0), < g(R) - g(O) >, is = -0.1392 gal (0.0716 gal), and that for the left spinning is = 0.0029 gal (0.0663 gal). Furthermore, that for g(R) - g(L) is = - 0.1421 gal (0.0317 gal). where g(0) is the Earth's gravity-acceleration at Sendai (latitude=38.248 N, longitude=140.847 E, height=130.0 m), and the mean value for g(0) is = 980.0658 gal(0.0001 gal). The above experimental data are presented as mean value in gal (standard deviation in gal). The experimental results are completely free from systematic errors. Statistical evaluation has been also performed for the populations corresponding to the sample ensembles (the experimental data). The present experiment has confirmed our previous experimental results for the weight changes of three spinning gyros: The previous experiment showed that the RIGHT-SPINNING caused weight DECREASE in proportion to the number of rotations, while the LEFT-SPINNING showed NO WEIGHT CHANGE. The previous report was published in Physical Review Letters, 63, 2701-2704 (1989). Both the present and previous experiments suggest that the RIGHT-SPINNING GENERATES ANTI-GRAVITY, and also that the parity (the reflection symmetry on a mirror transformation) of gravity breaks down completely. The appearance of anti-gravity means the GENERATION OF POSITIVE ENERGY FROM THE VACUUM (i.e. the Aether). The detail of the present experiment will be published shortly in "Speculations in Science and Technology". And also, the present experiment will be reported in "International Conference on New Ideas in Natural Science", to be held by the Russia Academy of Science, St.-Petersburg, June 17-21, 1996. Furthermore, anti-gravity theory for a spinning object has been developed by Hayasaka, and published in "Proceeding of III Inter. Conf. on Space, Time, and Gravitation", held by the Russia Academy of Science, St. Petersburg, May 21-27, 1994. The proceeding was published by "Politechnika", (6, Inzhenernaya Str., St.-Petersburg, 191011, Russia), 1995. Publisher of "Speculations in Science and Technology (S.S.T)": Editor, Bryony Waltson Address, Chapman and Hall, 2-6 Boundary Row, London SE 8HN England Editor-in-Chief of the Journal (S.S.T): Dr. Akhlash Lakhatakia Address, Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics, The Pennsylvania State University, 229 Hamond State University Park, PA 16802-1401 USA Address: Dr. T. Hashida Research Institute for Fracture Technology Tohoku University Aza-Aoba, Aramaki, Aoba-ku, Sendai, 980-77 Japan Fax 81-22-225-2263 Comments - this report indicates that a righthand spin (viewed from above) causes a decrease in gravity interactions and thus a positive energy result. This might be helpful to free energy or anti-grav researchers who need that small boost to kick their machines into overunity or successful operation. It also indicates the twist that is often associated with Aether flows and subsequently with all energies which cascade down from the aether plenum. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The above was originally posted to me by Mr. Gary DePietro. Disclaimer: Not having directly observed the above tests, I cannot explicitly support nor discount the above experiment. At this time, I am posting it here for informational purposes. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 1) Why do magnets mechanically attract and repel? 2) Why, mechanically, if one pushes a conductor downward at right angles to the lines of force of a magnet does the current produced travel in ONE GIVEN DIRECTION and then, if one pushes the same conductor upwards, the produced current travels in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION? 3) Why, mechanically, if one flips the magnet over 180 degrees and repeats the test in (2), does one obtain results which are exactly opposite to test (2)? 4) And of extreme mechanical importance: Why, mechanically, when the conductor is pushed down or up parallel with the lines of force of a magnet --- NO MATTER HOW VIGOROUS THE MOTION OF THE CONDUCTOR (as long as parallel to the lines of force) --- is there NO CURRENT PRODUCED? HOW DOES THE CURRENT "KNOW" WHICH WAY TO TRAVEL --- OR NOT TO TRAVEL AT ALL? 5) Why, mechanically, can one move a conductor at a "snail's pace" at right angles to a magnetic field and suddenly, the CURRENT will travel at basically the SPEED OF LIGHT? 6) Why, mechanically, does light sometimes behave as a "particle" and at other times as a "wave?" 7) Why, mechanically, is there a particular angle to the Earth's True Axis towards the Sun? And many additional questions relating to astronomical/gravitational observations..... 8) What is the BASIC, MECHANICAL, BUILDING ENTITY OF ALL MATTER? 9) What is GRAVITY? 10) What is INERTIA? Fact: In my fundamental book I answer ALL OF THE ABOVE QUESTIONS (and many more) with ONE SIMPLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION: THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE! [Such is accomplished by applying the mechanically known laws of a gyroscope!] --- JOSEPH NEWMAN * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 19:34:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA06527; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:33:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:33:32 -0700 Message-Id: <335A9C61.7B46@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 15:44:50 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: field around a radial current Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"05oTk2.0.Db1.o7jMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Thanks for the info! Do the lines of force intersect the material or do they sort of sit on the surface? Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 20:01:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA18550; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:00:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:00:59 -0700 Message-ID: <335AD7EC.7DBC@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:58:52 -0400 From: David DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: <199704200410.VAA25963@sweden.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oirzi.0.PX4.eXjMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > Wheather the loop closes or not is NOT the real issue here. My > >testing and that of others has shown that a magnet can do work. The > >real issue is where the energy is coming from and what the cost of using > >that energy will be. Any takers? > > > > Hi Greg, > > >From what I've observed on my models it looks like the energy could be due > to centrifugal acceleration the steel ball receives from the magnetic fields > of the permanent magnets. Similar to the way the Voyager spacecraft gets > energy by flying past the outer planets, to gain power and acceleration from > the gravitational fields, to carry it out of the solar system. > > If the magnetic field is due to electrons spinning and this is due to energy > powered from the ether, ZPE, the vacuum, tachyon ect. then it would seem to > be an unlimited source of energy. > > Best Regards > Michael Randall If the the magnetic field is due to the spinning of the electrons, then there would be no magnetic field at absolute zero, correct? Couldn't this then be tested by supper cooling a magnet with liquid nitrogen and then measuring the field. Also the opposite could be tested, does the field increase when heating a magnet? I have a couple of other rather simplistic questions about what might occur at absolute zero. (Please correct me if I am misunderstanding any of this) A proton and electron attract each other but don't come together like the north and south poles of two closely positioned magnets because the electron is spinning around the proton with great velocity. At absolute zero when the electron stops its motion would it not then collapse into the nucleus due to the attraction. If this does occur would warming it back up again provide enough energy to break this bond and start the electron in motion again? Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me, Dave DeLeo ddeleo@ix.netcom.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 20:02:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA05781; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:46:50 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Newman motor questions Resent-Message-ID: <"1RPyB3.0.DQ1.kYjMp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >---------- >I have some questions for Ralph Hartwell and/or Evan Soule. I am asking in >open forum because I think everyone may be interested in the answers. > >1. In the Newman Generators switching occurs before current flows and the >electron flow is reversed back into the battery every one hundred and snip---> >14. Magnets can be found for practicly free to a good scrounger from junked >permanent magnet motors, if the power is only fifty percent of that with >neodyneum magnets this is no problem, "IF" the motor still will charge its >own battery. Do the magnets only determine the power level or is the >recharging capability of the motor depend upon the strength of the magnets? Dear Wes -- Good questions all. I have forwarded same to engineer Ralph Hartwell at ralph.hartwell@emachine.com -- for his independent input since he has had hands-on experience with Newman Motor/Generator construction. The gentleman in the video constructed his motor apr. 3 months before the Wiring & Construction Diagram was prepared. His motor was based on the information in Joe's book -- especially the updated info in the 7th Edition. However, there are similarities between his independently-constructed Motor and the Diagram. For fastest feedback to your questions, you may wish to contact Joseph Newman directly at (601) 947-7147. [Best times: 9:30-10:30am/9-10pm/M-F/Central Time] Gyroscopically yours, Evan Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 20:34:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02023; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:34:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:34:06 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704210333.XAA29149@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: New Science Message Area! To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:33:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"VMpXM.0.SV.j0kMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Peoples! I have set up a new science message area. This listserv is great, but to keep a topic going, it helps to be able to look back quickly and see what people said, say 1 month ago about this topic. I will also be offering free homepages in the neer future! Please come and check it out and tell me what you think. There is not much posted yet, but with YOUR help we can get a topic going? Anyone else interested in van de graaff generators? Come check it out! http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/wwwboard/wwwboard.html Thanks, Andrew Cantino -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 20:35:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02389; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:35:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:35:34 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704210335.XAA29227@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: VDG To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:35:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"cTWaQ2.0.Eb.52kMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just got a Superior at the Ohio State Science Fiar with my Van De Graaff generator I built. I got the only Superior from my town (Athens, OH). Cool hu. Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 21:24:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20844; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:24:23 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:18:13 PST Subject: RE: parametric amplifier Message-ID: <19970420.211819.9494.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5,10-11,18-19,21-22,25-27 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"4xV713.0.W55.plkMp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, I looked at you paper on JNaudin's Web Page. In the first formula do you mean for E to be energy or EMF ? Also the article describes getting energy from an inductor by pushing a core into the coil and holding current steady. The work in this case is not supplied by putting the core into the coil, but instead by the current source. It would not take any work to put the core into the coil, in fact it will be sucked in like a solenoid. The way to get more electrical power like this is to yank the core out of the coil while it has current flowing through it. This will produce an EMF in the same direction as the original current flow. Applying your idea of a parametric amplifier, A parametric generator would decrease the permeability at the time of maximum current and produce the same result. However, in both cases, some kind of work has to be done to the core. I don't believe there is some way to run around the conservation of energy. There must be a source. I very much appreciate the great ideas you have been posting on this list even if I sometimes don't agree. They have helped me learn. Please keep up the dialog. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 21:26:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA21207; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:26:17 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: mindtech@om.com.au, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:17:44 PST Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor Message-ID: <19970420.211819.9494.1.tv@juno.com> References: <9704161150.AB26638@atom.om.com.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-7,13-15,19-20,25-26,28-32,42-43,48-52,56-57,59-72 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"jqTgt.0.GB5.WnkMp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Peter, Sorry for my long delay in answering your email. The Gary device was described in an article Titled "Gary's Magnetic Motor" in HARPERS NEW MONTHLY MAGAZINE, March 1879, p. 601-605. The article describes a low power mechanical arrangement that moves through the action of horse shoe permanent magnets and a soft iron piece that operates in what is called the "Neutral Zone". The neutral zone is when the soft iron assumes a net zero magnetic polarity and will not hold another small piece of iron such as a nail or paper clip. I have confirmed by experiments that this happens as described by the article. That is as far as I went however. As far as I know, nobody has replicated Gary's work. From the article it would seem that some interest was initially created but the invention was not practical because of its feeble output power and so was ignored and forgotten. I think it is of considerable interest since, if the article is accurate, and it seems to have been well investigated by the author, this device was a low power free energy device using a ferromagnetic phenomena that may have been ordering ambient fluctuation energy. It would be worth investigating further. I recently found a book advertised in the International Tesla Society Catalog, "T-FIELD ENERGY RESEARCH" by Dan Davidson. The ad copy reads: "This excellent publication reveals how the ether behaves and unveils a forgotten discovery from 1878 - the Gary Magnetic effect. Gary was one of the earliest of the alternate energy researchers. His researches into magnetism led him to discover the principle of the neutral line of magnetic force emanating from a magnet. having determined the nature of this force and figuring a way to utilize it, Gary then proceeded to construct a real live working model of a "free" energy device. Realizing that all he had at this point was a toy that could not produce usable power, he continued to work until he developed a super efficient generator !' Since the copies I have are so poor, this might be your best source for more info. I met Dan Davidson once about 8 years ago but have not communicated since. I have one of his other books on a various energy inventions, and it is quite well written. I will order his book and see if it has new info. The order # is 590002-T-Field Energy. The price is $15. ITS phone is 1-800-397-0137 I am not a member or an associate of this organization and understand there has been some controversy about them. Their main business is selling books. I have ordered a book before, no problems with my order. They gave good service. Please let me know if you find anything more about Wesley Gary or his invention. Tim On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:50:40 +1000 mindtech@om.com.au writes: >Tim, > >Can you provide a reference for the Gary device? Has the effect ever >been >replicated? > >Thanks for your response, > >Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 21:33:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA14639; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:33:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:33:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970420213212.00e05a38@inc-g.com> X-Sender: maryc@inc-g.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:32:12 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Mary C." Subject: Re: VDG In-Reply-To: <199704210335.XAA29227@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"on6tV2.0.aa3.cukMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Andrew, Many Congrats! This kind of news is Better than Cool!!! Mary C. At 11:35 PM 4/20/97 -0400, you wrote: >I just got a Superior at the Ohio State Science Fiar with my Van De >Graaff generator I >built. I got the only Superior from my town (Athens, OH). Cool hu. > >Andrew > -- >+-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ >| Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | >| Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| | >| "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | >| ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | >| ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | >| | >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 21:35:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA15079; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:35:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:35:15 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704210435.AAA02582@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: VDG To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:35:08 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970420213212.00e05a38@inc-g.com> from "Mary C." at Apr 20, 97 09:32:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"V9MsZ3.0.Wh3.2wkMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks. I'm really excited, as this is my first year! Andrew > > Andrew, Many Congrats! This kind of news is Better than Cool!!! > > Mary C. > > At 11:35 PM 4/20/97 -0400, you wrote: > >I just got a Superior at the Ohio State Science Fiar with my Van De > >Graaff generator I > >built. I got the only Superior from my town (Athens, OH). Cool hu. > > > >Andrew > > -- > >+-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ > >| Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | > >| Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | > >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > >| | > >| "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | > >| ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | > >| ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | > >| | > >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > > > > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 23:07:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA13894; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:07:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:07:48 -0700 Message-ID: <335AA56A.1708@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:53:22 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: neotech@xbn.shore.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Real Space Drive (1/4 Impluse Mr. Crusher......Engage) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------40FC48A9780F" Resent-Message-ID: <"_fdio2.0.mO3.nGmMp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------40FC48A9780F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI All, I have attached the first page of US patent 5,142,861. It claims to be a US Gov patent to directly produce thrust from a highly distorted magnetic field. Looks like you could build one in your garage. I can send the whole patent (480kb) to anyone interested. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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00:07:40 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Tour de Sol In-Reply-To: <01BC4D76.32080F80@cookie-monster.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nGGk53.0.mD.sJmMp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! Personally, I'd suggest that you look up details on the Tucker car, especially the designs for the hemi heads (several years before Chrysler) and the gearless clutch tranny. As well, high mileage carbs, especially those of Charles Pogue of Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.dmox The tesla turbine is another good place to start, though you'll have to machine one yourself, or through a service. 95% fuel efficiency, vs 25% for piston engines, and 100% tourque availability at all rpm's. I'd also suggest brushing up on fiberglass fabrication techniques, and get some sort of wind tunnel program for your 'puter. Aerodynamics in itself can contribute to efficient gas usage. Hope this helps some. :) John On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Hawkeye wrote: > > I would like to hear Ideas for a Energy-Efficient, eviroment friendy, and long range car. > > BTW: It helps if the parts are low cost and easy to get or make. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 20 23:33:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA04226; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <335AD522.22C9@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:46:58 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: parametric processes and the conservation "law" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cyHc-1.0.x11._emMp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim and all, Some clarifications about parametric processes. > I looked at your paper on JNaudin's Web Page. In the first formula do you > mean for E to be energy or EMF ? Firstly, this is not my paper. It is from an article by Leslie Wanless, the inventor of the parametric transformer, explaining his invention. It was originally published in the IEEE WESCON proceedings for 1968 (as I recall). I apologize if attribution was not clear. The E in the first formula is EMF, as this is an extension of the standard formula for EM induction. > Also the article describes getting energy from an inductor by pushing a > core into the coil and holding current steady. The work in this case is not supplied > by putting the core into the coil, but instead by the > current source. It would not take any work to put the core into the > coil, in fact it will be sucked in like a solenoid. True. It's well known in these parametric processes that only half the cycle requires work. > The way to get more electrical power like this is to yank the core out > of the coil while it has current flowing through it. This will produce > an EMF in the same direction as the original current flow. This is just a linear induction generator and has nothing to do with parametric generation. > Applying your idea of a parametric amplifier, A parametric generator would > decrease the permeability at the time of maximum current and produce the > same result. However, in both cases, some kind of work has to be done > to the core. Yes, this is true. The question is whether it always takes as much work to change the inductance or capacitance of a circuit as the energy gain in the circuit. I believe that some materials with nonlinear properties (such as varactor diodes and magnetic materials with nonlinear permeabilities) literally do not operate in the same time frame as the measuring instruments when the inertia of the system is changing. That is my rationale of the moment, but I fully acknowledge that it is something I believe because it makes it easier to see my ideas work. Who knows the truth? > I don't believe there is some way to run around the conservation of energy. There > must be a source. Yes, there must be a source, and looking for that source keeps scientists in business, but I am not a scientist, I am an inventor. When I see a situation that looks exploitable, I will try to exploit it, without regard for maps of reality called "scientific laws" that say it is impossible. Personally, I believe the law of conservation of energy is impossible. Even a momentary examination of the Big Bang or the electron orbit will demonstrate the fallacy of this so-called "law". Intuitively, I know that the human spirit is the ultimate contradiction to this law, but I cannot argue that in the court of science; the evidence is inadmissable. Scientists can say that there is always a hidden source of energy in any situation that contradicts the "law" but that only makes the issue an infinite regress: if there is always a source of energy when the law is called into question, then the law is, in any case, called into question. I realize that this position makes me a heretic among heretics but it is what I believe. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 21 09:51:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA03978; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:51:09 -0700 (PDT) From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:43:47 PST Subject: RE: Gary Magnet Motor Message-ID: <19970421.094352.6798.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-49 Resent-Message-ID: <"nqd_d3.0.2-.thvMp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I found the following concerning Gary on something called Keeleynet when doinf a Web search using Hotbot. He describes this as well as I could so thought I would pass it along. Tim --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message 432 DATE/TIME: 05/25/93 14:58 >From : JOHN DRAPER -- RECEIVED -- To : JERRY DECKER (SYSOP) Subject: Magnet Information Folder : A, "Public Mail" I am in the process of retyping a copy of an 1875 patent and 1878 Harper's article regarding the discovery of a Neutral Line that exists within a magnetic field. In brief, a gentleman by the name of Wesley Gary, found that when one takes a piece of soft iron and a small nail and begins moving it away from one of the poles of a permanent magnet, at a certain point, the nail drops away from the soft iron. Continue moving away from the magnet, the soft iron again becomes magnetized, but the magnetic polarity in the soft iron will change. Move back toward the pole of the magnet, and the process reverses. Gary built several working models to prove his concept, including a small electrical generator, that consisted of a piece of soft iron wound with copper wire. He moved the soft iron back and forth across the neutral line and generated electricity. The distance from the pole end of the magnet to the neutral line will vary according to the size and strength of the magnet. The line is quite defined and quite narrow. To generate electricity, a movement of 1/8 to 1/4 inch is required. The copy I'm working from is quite poor. The patent has been retyped, but the article from the 1878 issue of Harper's is barely readable, even using the best reprographics I could find. The Harper's article has drawings of the models with the various parts identified. I will mail the retyped article and copies of the original documents within 10 days. I can see some interesting experiments, using this knowledge. No where, have I ever seen any article about magnets that mention anything about a neutral line. I am wondering about simulating the action of a monopole by moving from the pole of the magnet just to the neutral line, then back again toward the pole. Now I'm thinking about using a Hall Effect device to detect the presence and absence of a magnetic field to control some device..... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 21 15:33:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA08781; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:33:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:33:43 -0700 Message-Id: <335BEAEE.42A@centuryinter.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:32:14 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: does anyone know ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UwaKA.0.392.6j-Mp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone know how to make one of those lawnmower engines that use pieces off a microwave oven to operate ? I have saw some messages about it but no one ever said how to do it ! I think i have all the pieces i need but i don't know how to put it togther !!! -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ? ?...The truth is out there, ? ? if you know where to look...? ? -andrew r. ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 21 15:54:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16044 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:54:36 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:54:36 -0700 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Mon Apr 21 15:54:35 1997 Received: from orca.microtronics.com.au (root@orca.microtronics.com.au [203.30.55.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA16017 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:54:27 -0700 Received: from ppp.microtronics.com.au (ppp0i.microtronics.com.au [203.30.55.108]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02797 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:24:05 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <335BEFEA.17D9@microtronics.com.au> Old-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:23:30 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor References: <19970421.094352.6798.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------72B4C0D44DD" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------72B4C0D44DD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tv@juno.com wrote: > > I found the following concerning Gary on something called Keeleynet > when doinf a Web search using Hotbot. > He describes this as well as I could so thought I would pass it along. > Tim > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message 432 DATE/TIME: 05/25/93 14:58 > >From : JOHN DRAPER -- RECEIVED -- > To : JERRY DECKER (SYSOP) > Subject: Magnet Information > Folder : A, "Public Mail" > > I am in the process of retyping a copy of an 1875 patent and > 1878 Harper's article regarding the discovery of a Neutral > Line that exists within a magnetic field. In brief, a > gentleman by the name of Wesley Gary, found that when one > takes a piece of soft iron and a small nail and begins moving > it away from one of the poles of a permanent magnet, at a > certain point, the nail drops away from the soft iron. > Continue moving away from the magnet, the soft iron again > becomes magnetized, but the magnetic polarity in the soft > iron will change. Move back toward the pole of the magnet, > and the process reverses. > > Gary built several working models to prove his concept, > including a small electrical generator, that consisted of a > piece of soft iron wound with copper wire. He moved the soft > iron back and forth across the neutral line and generated > electricity. The distance from the pole end of the magnet to > the neutral line will vary according to the size and strength > of the magnet. The line is quite defined and quite narrow. > To generate electricity, a movement of 1/8 to 1/4 inch is > required. > > The copy I'm working from is quite poor. The patent has been > retyped, but the article from the 1878 issue of Harper's is > barely readable, even using the best reprographics I could > find. The Harper's article has drawings of the models > with the various parts identified. I will mail the retyped > article and copies of the original documents within 10 days. > > I can see some interesting experiments, using this knowledge. > No where, have I ever seen any article about magnets that > mention anything about a neutral line. I am wondering about > simulating the action of a monopole by moving from the pole > of the magnet just to the neutral line, then back again > toward the pole. Now I'm thinking about using a Hall Effect > device to detect the presence and absence of a magnetic field > to control some device..... Hi John, The existance of this "Null zone" around a SN SN magnet config has been shown by me for some time on this group. I have attached a Gif image showing the field contours. I have duplicated your moving nail experiment some time ago. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile --------------72B4C0D44DD Content-Type: image/gif; name="snsn40.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="snsn40.gif" R0lGODlhgALgAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBKQEVAT8BKSkVAQEpLS0 vKRUpFSkpGx0dPwEBPz8BAQE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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21 15:59:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02248; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <335BF0DB.5545@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:27:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor References: <19970421.094352.6798.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------294842F14875" Resent-Message-ID: <"FGzxF3.0.-Y.c4_Mp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------294842F14875 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tv@juno.com wrote: > > I found the following concerning Gary on something called Keeleynet > when doinf a Web search using Hotbot. > He describes this as well as I could so thought I would pass it along. > Tim > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message 432 DATE/TIME: 05/25/93 14:58 > >From : JOHN DRAPER -- RECEIVED -- > To : JERRY DECKER (SYSOP) > Subject: Magnet Information > Folder : A, "Public Mail" > > I am in the process of retyping a copy of an 1875 patent and > 1878 Harper's article regarding the discovery of a Neutral > Line that exists within a magnetic field. In brief, a > gentleman by the name of Wesley Gary, found that when one > takes a piece of soft iron and a small nail and begins moving > it away from one of the poles of a permanent magnet, at a > certain point, the nail drops away from the soft iron. > Continue moving away from the magnet, the soft iron again > becomes magnetized, but the magnetic polarity in the soft > iron will change. Move back toward the pole of the magnet, > and the process reverses. > > Gary built several working models to prove his concept, > including a small electrical generator, that consisted of a > piece of soft iron wound with copper wire. He moved the soft > iron back and forth across the neutral line and generated > electricity. The distance from the pole end of the magnet to > the neutral line will vary according to the size and strength > of the magnet. The line is quite defined and quite narrow. > To generate electricity, a movement of 1/8 to 1/4 inch is > required. > > The copy I'm working from is quite poor. The patent has been > retyped, but the article from the 1878 issue of Harper's is > barely readable, even using the best reprographics I could > find. The Harper's article has drawings of the models > with the various parts identified. I will mail the retyped > article and copies of the original documents within 10 days. > > I can see some interesting experiments, using this knowledge. > No where, have I ever seen any article about magnets that > mention anything about a neutral line. I am wondering about You need to follow freenrg closer. > simulating the action of a monopole by moving from the pole > of the magnet just to the neutral line, then back again > toward the pole. Now I'm thinking about using a Hall Effect > device to detect the presence and absence of a magnetic field > to control some device..... Hi John, The existance of this "Null zone" around a SN SN magnet config has been shown by me for some time on this group. I have attached a Gif image showing the field contours. I have duplicated your moving nail experiment some time ago. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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1LSM0wDKSPVUVZwQ1lYl1jjUmlJ90GL9z1391bq80NEETfcEoONsURWd1UGVmVfVVh5DVl5F QBpKTeQUV/tUDyztSBwt0desUOG0x251ViE1UvzsUaOcULMMy/Xk1+Ro1dDSxLZsrVOKbdaE HFZH7Ulr3E4gHdLbDFB5LVmPLc9p1SQ/Fc+pVNmVRMjMfNVzlVYXDdlbAUhCvFeIpdhEtdmR FA2VTNA7FaDN7A9uNRxk4lNxhNbimMSVNde18NIY5NN2VdT5dFMBldo79U7CtNejhVlGAdUc JQ35xNVb1djjMNmyxVbajNGV+EX4JNWepVs0TNHkHFug/Va9ldXjQSaAPVsSRduzFatJRclK ncerpdanBFyXnVWJRc61jcjEhFxa/dV/bduaBVtAfdyfHVYGPVWa5dnNHdUu/c+N3dvQCAgA Ow== --------------294842F14875-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 21 16:17:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA21656; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:17:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:17:26 -0700 Message-ID: <335BF54C.3247@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:46:28 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: neotech@xbn.shore.net, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: OU Space Drive?????????? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VZHa53.0.FI5.5M_Mp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just a short note. The space drive patent 5,142,861 claims the thrust increases as the square of the drive current. This seems ok at first as most magnetic effects are related to the square of the flux. But now we seemly can create thrust (energy) based on the square of the current (flux). Therefore the energy source for the thrust is NOT the current as at some point in the increase of the current, we will get more thrust (energy) than we are putting in. Seems we now have a OU space drive. This is wild. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 21 16:28:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA26257; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:28:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:28:34 -0700 Message-ID: <335C05D9.2291@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:27:05 -0700 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Gary Magnetic Motor References: <199704200103.LAA12370@main.murray.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aAXGO1.0.5Q6.VW_Mp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Seeing there is interest in Wesley Gary's Magnetic Neutral Zone motor, I placed the files sent in by our late friend John Draper at the KeelyNet site...specifically; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/gary.htm Also, some additional information on the CLEM engine is at; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem2.htm One final item with regard to the Gary motor, there is a paper called the Secret of the Magnet Poles which indicates the presence of just such a neutral line...I am working to get it posted...it correlates directly with the claims of Wesley Gary....also note the final comments where he was able to pull electrical energy directly from this alternating motion of the lever....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 01:37:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA19856; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 01:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 01:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <335C42E6.B21@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:47:34 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca Subject: o/u transformer update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9NxEJ.0.6s4.VW7Np"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! Just wanted to get you up to date on some library research I've been doing on parametric transformers etc. Most of this will be meaningless to those who have not sudied the material I sent out. Three points for those who might build a device like the one I described in my Hubbard Coil/ Parametric Transformer mailing: 1) It's clearer to me now what the "official" mechanism for energy transfer from the primary to the secondary is in these parametric transformers (PT). Just as the magnetic field of the primary current changes the inductance of the secondary, the current flowing in the secondary changes the inductance of the primary. This inductance reduces the energy in the primary in a sort of "anti-parametric" effect. In a moment I will describe a way around this. 2) Another article I read proves mathematically that the arrangement that makes the most of the magnetic fields for permeance variation is what is called a parallel core arrangement similar to what is used in magnetic amplifiers. Although the Wanless PT is a unique and interesting device that illustrates the parametric principles well, it isn't the best way to go. In the parallel core arrangement, two toroid cores are used. The primary consists of two windings in series, one on each core. The secondary also has two windings in series on the two cores, but one of the windings is wound in reverse of the other. The result, as in the Wanless PT, is cancellation of all EM inductive interactions. BTW, before anybody starts writing to me to tell me that it can't happen, it is a standard arrangement in magnetic amplifiers. I did not invent it. 3) There was an article in the Jan-Mar 1993 issue of Extraordinary Science by Scott Mckie on his experiments with a Wanless PT. In it is an affidavit from an EE who tested a PT modified by putting a capacitor across the primary so that both primary and secondary are resonant. In the affidavit he states that voltage and current measurements made with AC meters show a power gain of 150% I understand that statements like this don't prove anything, but it certainly makes ME think I'm moving in the right direction, since I was unaware of this work until about a month ago. Now--what does this mean for a new improved version of the PT overunity device? I believe that the anti-parametric effect in the primary can be greatly reduced by making the primary and the secondary out of different types of magnetic materials. I would also incorporate the standard parallel-core arrangement. So, here's my new design: The primary consists of two standard laminated transformer c-cores made of a magnetic material that saturates only in high fields (permendur, supermendur, permalloy). The secondary consists of two manganese-zinc ferrites wedged tightly into the airgaps of the two c-cores. (Ideally, the ferrites are contoured with the c-cores to prevent field fringing). The primary is wound on both c-cores in series. The secondary is wound on the first ferrite in standard fashion and counterwound on the second ferrite. It might be useful to put permanent magnets near the ferrite cores to put them closer to saturation. There is a capacitor in parallel across the primary, and another capacitor in series with the load resistance in the secondary. These capacitors are of values such that the resonant frequencies of the primary and the secondary are the same. You will need an inductance or dip meter for this. The current in the primary tank circuit is maintained, as in my earlier design, by a small audio amp. I use two different magnetic materials in this design to counteract the effect of the magnetic field of the secondary on the permeability of the primary. In the range of magnetic field used in this device, the c-cores have a flat u/B relationship, while the ferrites have a nonlinear u/B relationship. In English, the varying magnetic field of the primary has a great effect on the permeability of the secondary and thus a high parametric excitation, whereas the varying magnetic field of the secondary has little effect on the permeability of the primary and thus a low anti-parametric excitation. I believe that this device is capable of at least overunity performance, and possibly power efficiencies of about 200%. I don't know if this means anything to anybody but me, but there it is for what it's worth. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 12:14:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA11859; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:00:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:00:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:46:56 PST Subject: Re: o/u transformer ideas Message-ID: <19970422.115405.14246.0.tv@juno.com> References: <335C42E6.B21@mail.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,9-12,14-15,22-23,27-28,31,33,35,37-38,44-48 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"XjzHu3.0.8v2.ugGNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:47:34 -0700 "Fred B. Epps" writes: > In the parallel core arrangement, two toroid cores are >used. The primary consists of two windings in series, one on each core. >The secondary also has two windings in series on the two cores, but one >of the windings is wound in reverse of the other. The result, as in the >Wanless PT, is cancellation of all EM inductive interactions. BTW, >before anybody starts writing to me to tell me that it can't happen, >it is a standard arrangement in magnetic amplifiers. I did not invent it. Fred, Are you sure those canceled windings are secondaries on magnetic amplifiers ? I have a book by H.F. Storm, MAGNETIC AMPLIFIERS, published in 1955 by General Electric. The canceled windings are called control windings and usually fed direct current that is modulated to establish a magnetic field that controls the permeability of the core(s). The control windings are wired to cancel the EMF because they are only there to provide the bias field not to pick up induced EMF from the changing magnetic flux in the core. This arrangement is also called a saturable reactor. Saturable reactors can be built on two separate toroids (or square cores) or they can built with one "square figure eight" core (3-legged construction) with a single control winding on the common center leg of the core. I think the trick is not to try to bypass the First Law of Thermodynamics (Energy Conservation) but to turn the Second Law "on its head". Use fluctuation energy to do the work of disordering a ferromagnetic material (reduced permeability) used as the core of an inductor. This might be done with orthogonal magnetic fields as may have been done in electrically in the Hans Coler device and mechanically in the Wesley Gary mechanism. In the Coler device the currents through the cores of the inductors produced weak circular magnetic fields orthogonal to the main fields. Perhaps the circular fields tended to trigger a fluctuation driven disordering of the longitudinal fields in the cores and so reduced the permeability at the appropriate times in the cycle of oscillations of the tank circuit that included the inductors. Just more food for thought. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 12:20:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA11739; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:59:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:59:15 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:54:00 PST Subject: Re: The Gary Magnetic Motor Message-ID: <19970422.115405.14246.1.tv@juno.com> References: <199704200103.LAA12370@main.murray.net.au> <335C05D9.2291@keelynet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-5,7,9-10,12-13,15-20 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"p4waa.0.Kt2.1gGNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry, Thanks for posting the retyped article on Wesley Gary. I have a copy of the original article and some other diagrams that was not included in your version that show the Gary's mechanism more clearly. Would you mind if I take your typed text and added some pictures for posting on a Web Page. I was going to retype the whole article myself but you will save much work ! I also enjoyed the article about the cooking oil motor and Ford Cow magnet motor. I thought Keely was caught perpetrating a fraud with hidden air lines on one his motors. Was this misinformation ? Tim Vaughan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 13:06:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA15616; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:55:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704221954.PAA05130@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: In Science Area To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:54:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"CCbKB1.0.vp3.TUHNp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I see that some people have started to chat in the science area! Great! Anything you would like me to add? I'm working on a Tesla book store. http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/wwwboard/wwwboard.html Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 13:35:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA22194 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: whistler@cryogen.com Tue Apr 22 13:35:16 1997 Received: from curie (curie.eecs.ukans.edu [129.237.116.41]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA22132 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hawk1 by curie (5.65v3.2/KU-3.0) id AA26896; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:34:37 -0500 Message-Id: <335D3CF7.47B@cryogen.com> Old-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:34:31 -0700 From: The Red Smurf Reply-To: whistler@cryogen.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Physics References: <335D1E82.122C@bciu.k12.pa.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: O'Connor wrote: > > Quantum Physics is an extremely captivating and broad topic. > If anyone would like to begin discussing it, I more than > welcome it. > > -Shannon > > "Eschew Obfuscation." what aspect of it would you like to discuss? nate From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 13:45:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA21751; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:31:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704222031.QAA10186@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Tesla: The Bookstore To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:31:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"b1WJ_1.0.mJ5.j0INp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Get some rare books on Tesla here: http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html Sorry if this got posted twice. The first time may not have gotten through. Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 13:49:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA27223; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:28:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:28:01 -0700 Message-ID: <335D1E82.122C@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:24:40 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Quantum Physics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RK0Nf1.0.Ff6.GzHNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quantum Physics is an extremely captivating and broad topic. If anyone would like to begin discussing it, I more than welcome it. -Shannon "Eschew Obfuscation." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 13:54:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA27731; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:30:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:30:26 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704222030.QAA09979@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: TESLA To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:30:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"59d-E.0.Dn6.X_HNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If anyone needs to get books on Tesla, try this great place: http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html Many VERY rare books are there! Have fun! Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 13:54:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA29053; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:38:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:38:36 -0700 From: mother@eagle.cc.ukans.edu Message-Id: <335D3DD8.56C9@eagle.cc.ukans.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:38:16 -0700 Reply-To: mother@eagle.cc.ukans.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Physics References: <335D1E82.122C@bciu.k12.pa.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"270L-1.0.s57.B7INp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: O'Connor wrote: > > Quantum Physics is an extremely captivating and broad topic. > If anyone would like to begin discussing it, I more than > welcome it. > > -Shannon > > "Eschew Obfuscation." What aspect of it would you like to discuss? Nate From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 14:04:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA30985; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:49:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:49:12 -0700 Message-ID: <335D2336.4AC4@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:44:48 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Physics References: <335D1E82.122C@bciu.k12.pa.us> <335D3CF7.47B@cryogen.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fG2MB2.0.3a7.7HINp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > what aspect of it would you like to discuss? > > nate To tell the truth, I'm open to all types of discussions. Although I am more interested in time travel and the different aspects seen there...I don't want to turn anyone off by generalizing it. So, anyone who wants to spurt: go right ahead. I'll just sit here, read, and reply. -Shannon "Eschew Obfuscation." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 14:25:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA02896; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:09:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:09:31 -0700 Message-ID: <335D28A3.1FCF@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:08:00 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: LISTSERV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p8NLi2.0.5j.AaINp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I know this may be unwanted or even rejected by some of you, but there is a great philosophy listserv out there that is in desperate need of members. Personally, I think this group ties in well with many aspects of philosopy. So, if any of you are interested: >DUH PHILOSOPHY LISTSERV: >To get on the list, send a message to MZYOUNG@uci.edu consisting of: >subscribe duh as in "subscribe duh Harry Stottle" >To get off the list, send a message to listserv@uci.edu consisting of: >unsubscribe duh >To get all the day's messages at one time, send: >set duh mail digest >To post a message, send it as mail to duh@uci.edu >To get help, send a message to listserv@uci.edu consisting of: >HELP As soon as you have joined...feel free to jump right in. THERE HAS BEEN NO TRAFFIC FOR A WHILE!! -Shannon Thanks for bearing with me. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 14:28:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA02831; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:09:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:09:19 -0700 Message-ID: <335D28F2.58AE@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:09:19 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Quantum Physics Again Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_VVer2.0.9i.-ZINp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > what aspect of it would you like to discuss? > > nate To tell the truth, I'm open to all types of discussions. Although I am more interested in time travel and the different aspects seen there...I don't want to turn anyone off by generalizing it. So, anyone who wants to spurt: go right ahead. I'll just sit here, read, and reply. -Shannon "Eschew Obfuscation." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 14:50:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA02389; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:31:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dave." cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Physics Again In-Reply-To: <335D28F2.58AE@bciu.k12.pa.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AlJyV1.0.Db.5yINp"@mx2> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What kind of methods behind time travel? I've always found it fascinating that a particle kind be dichotomous, and that in itself opens up many doors, but by what methods are you interested in? david "A day without sunshine is like, night." On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, O'Connor wrote: > what aspect of it would you like to discuss? > > nate To tell the truth, I'm open to all types of discussions. Although I am more interested in time travel and the different aspects seen there...I don't want to turn anyone off by generalizing it. So, anyone who wants to spurt: go right ahead. I'll just sit here, read, and reply. -Shannon "Eschew Obfuscation." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 15:18:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA15776; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:08:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:08:35 -0700 Message-Id: <335D01BB.3354@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:21:47 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Tim Vaughn Subject: Re: re: overunity transformer ideas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6klXM3.0.Qs3.ZRJNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim and all, > Are you sure those canceled windings are secondaries on magnetic > amplifiers ? I got my information from an article entitled "Comparison Of Orthogonal- And Parallel- Flux Variable Inductors" by Z.H. Meiksin, senior member, IEEE, in the IEEE Transactions on Industry Applications, V. IA-10, N.3, May/June 1974. I quote: "Consider the system shown [and here he shows the system we are discussing]. Assume that all the windings have the same number of turns... If the primary windings are connected to an alternating voltage source, and the secondary windings are open circuited, each primary winding will support half the supply voltage. The induced voltages in the secondary winding are equal to each other in magnitude, but opposite in polarity, resulting in zero net voltage across the secondary terminals. As far as the overall system input-output transfer characteristic is concerned, there is no coupling between the primary and secondary sides under the conditions just described. The situation is identical with the orthogonal-flux system characteristic described earlier [this is the Wanless parametric transformer]." He goes on to describe the characteristics of these systems in detail and it is quite interesting. My mistake was in saying that these are standard saturable reactor or magamp windings. They are similar, but not the same. However, the crux of the matter is that these sorts of arrangements do work. With the proper core materials they will work at audio frequencies at the least--they are not limited to DC operation. The energy transfer is entirely parametric. This doesn't make it an overunity device, of course, just an unusual one. The intent of my post was to point out that the mechanism of energy transfer described in the literature depends on the nature of the core materials and not on thermodynamic considerations. The details on how the primary loses energy to the secondary are sparse. From "Theory And Performance Of Parametric Transformers" by W.Z. Fam, presented at the IEEE Winter meeting, paper T72-080-5, comes the only description I've found of why the primary loses energy to the secondary: "In order to understand the operation of the primary side of the transformer, it is necessary to realize that the primary inductance is also made to vary by the secondary flux. This can be easily seen from figure 1 which shows that the common regions of the magnetic circuit are also part of the primary flux path [figure 1 shows an AC source in series with a resistance and a periodically-varying inductance]. It is helpful to view this variation in the primary inductance as the reaction of the secondary..." The point of my post was to show that this reaction mechanism can be subverted by using materials with different magnetic properties for the primary and secondary. Since the parametric oscillations are dependent on the permeability of the material and not on the flux, the same flux can pass through both parts of my two-part core (as described in the other post), causing a large variation in the permeability of the secondary and a small variation in the primary. For a toroidal core with an inserted section of a different material the inductances are: L(total) = L1*L2/L1+L2 L1 = u*Nsquared*A*u1/length1 L2 = u*Nsquared*A*u2/length2 where u= permeability of free space N= Number of windings A= cross-sectional area u1,u2 = permeabilities of the core and inserted section respectively length1, length2 = length of the core and inserted section respectively It's clear from these relations that the permeabilities can vary independently of each other. In the present case where power is created in the output circuit by a variation in the permeability of the inserted section, and where it is desired to eliminate variation of permeability in the primary, one chooses a material with a low variation in u over varying H for the primary and a high variation in u over varying H for the secondary. This should result in a parametric device where little power is lost in the primary and more power is gained in the secondary: an overunity device. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 15:22:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA15095; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:04:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:04:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199704222201.PAA03279@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: Re: High efficiency lighting system Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:31:46 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jjCYK2.0.mh3.fNJNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- TO ALL: I purchased the high efficiency lighting system detailed in popular electronics. I have just finished my testing of the device. On the cold wire, before the electrical convertrer box we placed a one Ohm resistor. Across this resistor we placed the scope. There was a seventy volt spike aproximately 1\60th of a second. 1/60th of a second times [1/10]cycle is approximately 1/600th of a second or approximately 1.66 mill/sec. L=1/10th cycle in width + or - 10% 16,666 mil/sec + or - 10% divide by ten = 1.66MS V=I amp times R Seven volts over 1 ohm = 7amps spike @ 115V AC 60HZ or Approx. 700 watt spike + or - 10% for 1/10th of the cycle, which would be 70 watts + or - 10% at 60HZ. I them compared the light to a standard one hundred watt light with a light meter. The results were that the 100 watt bulb was brighter than the light from the bulb in the high efficeincy lighting system that is supposed to = a 100 watt lightbulb, although is was more than a fifty light bulb. By using a light meter I found that this high efficiency lighting system really put out only seventy five watts. At this point I assumed that the High efficiency lighting system must fool the Power companies meter, so I hooked it up to a regular house meter. Here are the results. The high efficiency electrical system that had a lamp that is supposed to put out 100 watts but actually only puts out seventy to seventy five watts, spins the meter exactly the same speed as a normal seventy five watt, one hundred and ten volt bulb does. This test was done with a stop watch and a regular Pacific Gas and Electric power meter. My conclusions: Mr. Rosenthalls device is a fraud. He makes the claim that his device uses seven watts of electrical energy to produce one hundred watts of light. This message can be forwarded to vortexL or Newmans list or anywhere else anyone wishes to save anyone else from being duped by fraud. WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS CA. 95642 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 16:45:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA19416; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <335D563D.2E1F@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:22:21 -0700 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Gary Magnetic Motor References: <199704200103.LAA12370@main.murray.net.au> <335C05D9.2291@keelynet.com> <19970422.115405.14246.1.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p0MeJ.0.Il4.qYKNp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim! Sure, the more info on Gary the better, please let me know where you put it so I can post a link, thanks. I've always thought Keely resorted to some trickery with the hidden tube business, but there are SO MANY other phenomena that he produced and some in locations where he could not have rigged it....bear in mind, he had to deal with people who demanded marvelous demonstrations and I think let bad judgement overcome his integrity....which has created the impression that ALL of his work was bogus.....the proof will be in a working device (and he made many) based on his designs or principles). For those who are Tesla believers, they should compare the timelines and nature of Teslas 'discoveries' and they will find that Keely was the ture discoverer. Teslas genius was to realize that he could get away from all the finely tuned (graduated) mechanical machines and simply use electrical currents. You don't see anyone at KeelyNet promoting Keely as 'the man', as with the Tesla church members.....everyone had a part to play and I think Tesla was WAY overblown. I've read a letter sent by Tesla to Bloomfield Moore stating his view that Keely was a total fraud, yadayadayada..looks like a case of 'methinks the lady doth protest too much'...knowing where he got most of his ideas....but Tesla was vain and egotistical, it would kill him if people realized the true source was Keely, working with mechanically generated vibrations, from 1872 to 1898, while Tesla never mentioned mechanical oscillators until he arrived around 1888.....Tesla, new in New York, Keely, old in Philly, right across the bay where public demonstrations were given by Keely to all comers.....hmmm, eventually, I'll pull together all the details, but I've been trying to get a photocopy of that letter....most people just don't have a clue about Keely and when what he did and how he did it finally sinks in, most will say, they knew it all along....just so....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 18:53:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA24903; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:35:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:35:59 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704230135.VAA26990@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Update To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:35:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"SmNSQ.0.156.zTMNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Science Message Area has been updated! Much more people have come. http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/wwwboard/wwwboard.html -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 21:26:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA28269; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:15:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:15:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: cougar.isg.siue.edu: wrichar owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:19:42 -0500 (CDT) From: WARREN RICHARDS X-Sender: wrichar@cougar To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Keelynet In-Reply-To: <335D563D.2E1F@keelynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3JzSi.0.av6.FpONp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jerry. Why can't lynx access the Keelynet website anymore? Warren Richards From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 23:40:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA00822; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:26:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:26:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199704230623.XAA02058@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: Re: The Gary Magnetic Motor Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:53:26 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3Sm4l3.0.eC.zjQNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Seeing there is interest in Wesley Gary's Magnetic Neutral Zone motor, I > placed the files sent in by our late friend John Draper at the KeelyNet > site...specifically; > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/gary.htm > > Also, some additional information on the CLEM engine is at; > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem2.htm > > One final item with regard to the Gary motor, there is a paper called the > Secret of the Magnet Poles which indicates the presence of just such a > neutral line...I am working to get it posted...it correlates directly > with the claims of Wesley Gary....also note the final comments where he > was able to pull electrical energy directly from this alternating motion > of the lever....seeya! Jerry: If I am reading between the lines correctly and the magnetic poles change when the center magnet goes above or below the neutral line, this would imply that this is how the Hamel disk works with the wobling cones. however, it is a little hard to visualize how this could happen at high speed. Also on your Clem post. has anyone actually seen a asphalt machine self rortate. I thought they all used a flat stationary spray bar. Has anyone seen one that spins or better yet self rotates? By the way I have confirmation from several sources on these devices that self rotate. One of these persons, Michael Huffman, who holds such a patent is a member of this list. It would be interesting if he would coment on the progress of his device!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 22 23:49:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA02587; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:40:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:40:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199704230637.XAA02507@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: Re: High efficiency lighting system Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:08:06 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Hae801.0.Le.ixQNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: WESLY > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: High efficiency lighting system > Date: Tuesday, April 22, 1997 3:31 PM > > > > ---------- > TO ALL: > I purchased the high efficiency lighting system detailed in popular > electronics. I have just finished my testing of the device. > On the cold wire, before the electrical convertrer box we placed a one Ohm > resistor. Across this resistor we placed the scope. > There was a seventy volt spike aproximately 1\60th of a [cycle] 1/60th of a > [cycle] times [1/10]cycle is approximately 1/600th of a second or > approximately 1.66 mill/sec. > L=1/10th cycle in width + or - 10% > 16,666 mil/sec + or - 10% divide by ten = 1.66MS > V=I amp times R > Seven volts over 1 ohm = 7amps spike @ 115V AC 60HZ or Approx. 700 watt > spike + or - 10% for 1/10th of the cycle, which would be 70 watts + or - > 10% at 60HZ. > I them compared the light to a standard one hundred watt light with a light > meter. > The results were that the 100 watt bulb was brighter than the light from > the bulb in the high efficeincy lighting system that is supposed to = a 100 > watt lightbulb, although is was more than a fifty light bulb. By using a > light meter I found that this high efficiency lighting system really put > out only seventy five watts. > At this point I assumed that the High efficiency lighting system must > fool the Power companies meter, so I hooked it up to a regular house meter. > Here are the results. > The high efficiency electrical system that had a lamp that is supposed to > put out 100 watts but actually only puts out seventy to seventy five watts, > spins the meter exactly the same speed as a normal seventy five watt, one > hundred and ten volt bulb does. This test was done with a stop watch and a > regular Pacific Gas and Electric power meter. > My conclusions: Mr. Rosenthalls device is a fraud. He makes the claim > that his device uses seven watts of electrical energy to produce one > hundred watts of light. This message can be forwarded to vortexL or Newmans > list or anywhere else anyone wishes to save anyone else from being duped by > fraud. > WESLEY CROSIAR > PO BOX 268 > SAN ANDREAS CA. 95642 > I should have proofread the earlier post, 1/60th of a "second" should have read 1/60th of a [Cycle]. To make it more clear It should have read something like One HZ , which is 1/60th of 60 Hz times 1/10th of a HZ [the duration of the spike] = one 600th of a second or 1.66 Mill/Sec. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 23 05:48:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA06763; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:41:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:41:59 -0700 Message-ID: <335E114C.278@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:40:28 -0700 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Gary Magnetic Motor References: <199704230623.XAA02058@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pes1o3.0.bf1.MEWNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Wes! Yes, Gary claimed that neutral line is what allowed the push/pull effect, but as he points out in the text, it is very difficult to balance, since it took him four years to make it work. Pierre Sinclair said the original Hamel experiment with the 45 gallon drum that imploded had suspended magnets that did NOT ROTATE, but vibrated!! There is something very bizarre going on with magnetism and the transitions back and forth across the Bloch wall....not to mention something odd about a blending of energy, like flux lines that combine or move closer together....I need to get the Rory Johnson/Gerald Orlowski material online since it provides some fascinating insights into this phenomenon which Johnson discovered and claimed to have used in his 525hp engine. As to Clem, from my understanding of the hot asphalt spraying machine, it used a pump chamber which pulled the hot asphalt into the spray bar....we are hunting down information on the type of machine used back in the 70's....might even be able to find some oldtimers who knew more about it or even old machine. The new contact (Joe) said the design we had was correct except for the axis of the cone being vertical with the point at the top....our next meeting is the 3rd Wednesday of May and he said he would dig out whatever other information he has and bring it. The ISNE conference is the next weekend and I understand a fellow is planning to bring a working 10KW unit that he will demonstrate, I know his name but it would probably not be right to post it here, let him identify himself. Geez, I'd be tickled pink with just Puthoffs 1 Watt continuous...we shall see and I wish him the best of luck!..seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 23 13:59:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA03241; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:48:45 -0700 (PDT) From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves) Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Gary Magnetic Motor Date: 23 Apr 1997 20:46:14 GMT Message-Id: <1188360093.16272909@compcafe.co.uk> Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK Resent-Message-ID: <"uSxEH1.0.Yo.gMdNp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If I understand the diagram on Keelynet, then a soft iron bar, as it is pulled away from a horseshoe magnet, changes its magnetic polarity at some finite distance from the magnet. The most obvious use of this phenomena I can see is the generation of a current in a coil around the bar as mentioned in the text. Pushing the bar back and forth across the 'neutral line' should produce an AC current. Perhaps this could be augmented with two more horseshoe magnets placed at the ends of the bar thus? (Courier 10pt used) ---- Vibrating push-rod ---- ======== is bar | S | N | (((((((( is coil | -- | -- | | | =========(((((((=|=(((((((====== | | <<<--- Neutral Line --->>> | -- -- | | N S | Bar moves towards and away ---- | N | | S | ---- from main magnet, viz. up | | | | and down the page. | ------ | | main magnet | -------------- The position of the two end horseshoes should be adjustable to overcome the pull of the main magnet and push the bar towards the neutral line from either side. This might lessen the mechanical input required? Or stuff the whole thing altogether!? The bar could be a rod rotating eccentrically as viewed from the ends to obviate the stop - reverse - stop - reverse action of a simple push-pull arrangement as indicated although this would make it harder to experimentally adjust the length of stroke across the neutral line. The coil could be wound on a stationery former within which the bar moved to ease construction and lessen the weight of moving parts. I expect someone's done this already? Let me know before I find time to try myself, please! ---------------------------------------- >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk ---------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 23 16:15:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA12185; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:09:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:09:37 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC5011.797C8100@parahippus.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: science Subject: RE: New Science Message Area! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:58:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tqpOl.0.J-2.mQfNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am planning to make a van de graaff generator. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 23 17:43:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11391; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:22:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704240021.UAA23496@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: New Science Message Area! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:21:52 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <01BC5011.797C8100@parahippus.mdm.mke.execpc.com> from "Hawkeye" at Apr 23, 97 05:58:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"vu8WC2.0.qn2.PVgNp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Great! I have a Van de Graaff information page at: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/science/vdg.html I hope it helps. Remember to go to the science message area and the tesla books page! http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/wwwboard/wwwboard.html > > I am planning to make a van de graaff > generator. > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 23 17:50:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12497; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <335E2697.5004@triode.net.au> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:11:19 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: overunity transformer ideas References: <335D01BB.3354@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eEsOY3.0.B33.HcgNp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred B. Epps wrote: > > Hi Tim and all, > "In order to understand the operation of the primary side of the > transformer, it is necessary to realize that the primary inductance is > also made to vary by the secondary flux. This can be easily seen from > figure 1 which shows that the common regions of the magnetic circuit are > also part of the primary flux path [figure 1 shows an AC source in > series with a resistance and a periodically-varying inductance]. It is > helpful to view this variation in the primary inductance as the reaction > of the secondary..." > It's clear from these relations that the permeabilities can vary > independently of each other. In the present case where power is created > in the output circuit by a variation in the permeability of the inserted > section, and where it is desired to eliminate variation of permeability > in the primary, one chooses a material with a low variation in u over > varying H for the primary and a high variation in u over varying H for > the secondary. > This should result in a parametric device where little power is lost > in the primary and more power is gained in the secondary: an overunity > device. > Fred Fred, I still dont have your papers yet but they tell me that there is a postal item waiting for me at CISS. I will pick it up Friday evening. I like you thoughts Fred. I agree that the secondary affects the input despite the input cancelling into the output winding. I predict there will be a strong second harmonic EMF with virtually no fundamental appearing in the primary winding due to the non-linear nature of the magnetic material - given a sinusoidal at the secondary. Tim, I do believe that magnetic amplifiers have a core material with an almost rectangular BH curve. Amplification occurs due to the steep vertical slope of the BH square. The input, or control, winding has a high input impedance and is voltage driven - ie almost no input current - ideal. Saturable reactor art goes back to the turn of the century and was very prominent in the 50s. There are a lot of papers on it. The military mainly - servo systems etc. --- Maxwell Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" Spike Milligan - Goon Show - From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 24 08:53:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA11015; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704241538.IAA26187@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: Fw: flame Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:08:35 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i5TOU.0.1i2.RztNp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Mr. Rosenthal: You are taking measurements at the bulb, not before yourr dc > inverter, if your device worked, I would have posted positive results. I > also would have done considerably more testing of the device. The real > truth came out when I put it on the PG&E watt meter. This meter showed that > the device uses the same number of watts as a conventional bulb with the > same light output. NO MORE NO LESS. I do not have a big head and would love > for you to show me a way to make this device use seven watts to produce 100 > watts of light, in the meantime can I send it back for a refund, since this > unit does not work as claimed. > thanks WES From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 24 09:02:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA10127; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704241533.IAA25908@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: Fw: flame Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:03:22 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GxbQ83.0.7U2.NutNp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Apsmail@aol.com > To: CROSIAR@goldrush.com > Subject: flame > Date: Thursday, April 24, 1997 12:55 AM > > MR. wes: > And I thought you were on our side. > In the future could check your math before you trash someones work in > writting? > The following should help resolve this dispute, as I belive we ARE on the > same side. > > At a phase conduction angle of 151.1 degrees the values are 12.3 average VDC > and .6 average ADC. Wave propagation results in a 1750 foot candle > measurement from the luminaries. This is equivalent to a conventional 100 > watt lamps' advertised initial lumens. Power used is 7.38 watts. A RMS rate > is obtained by multiplying the average voltage and average ampere measurement > by RMS factor 1.11 and calculating RMS wattage as V(1.11) x I(1.11) = W. The > result of the computation is 12.3 x 1.11 = 13.6 and .6 x 1.11 = .66 and 13.6 > x .66 = 9.05 RMS watts. > > Cross check with Fluke 41 B shows 10watts , rounded up from 9.5. > > Calculation of empirical data results, relating to instrument measurements > supporting the above is as follows. With a source sine wave of 60 hertz at > 115 VAC, conduction at 151.1 degrees results in a measured average DC pulsed > voltage of 12.3 VDC. This is confirmed by taking the sine at 151.1 degrees of > 25.5 volts. Lower peak voltage is due to low impedance of this load. 25.5 > volts are the voltage at 90 degrees of one half cycle. > > A 30 volt 50 watt lamp is supplied with this 12 VDC pulse. Material > characteristics of ECM Low Voltage lamps are low voltage and low resistance. > Load resistance is calculated by V2/W. The 18 Ohm resistance (NOT 1 OHM) of > this lamp results in a 90 percent range of High Efficiency rating. Low > impedance improves power transfer effi ciency. A specifically engineered > luminare may improve the light output, lower the wattage, or extend service > life. > > CALC PROOF OF LAMP LOAD > > (PULSE VOLTAGE)2 X (.0349 X COND. ANGLE) - SINE X (2 X ANGLE) > ______________________________________________________________ > (25.1 X LAMP RESISTANCE) X (SINE X CON. ANGLE)2 > > (12.3)2 X (.0349 X 151.1) - SINE (2 X 151.1) > ______________________________________ > (25.1 X 18) X (SINE 151.1)2 > > 795.1707941 = 7.535503307 DC Watts at 1750 foot candles. > ___________________________________________________ > 105.5232493 > > The above shows lamp load between 10 watts and 7.5. DC. > In answer to that april fool in Pop tronics is THE USE OF PULSED DC IS > CONSERVATION OF ENERGY > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! > > > The AC watthour meeter that you are testing with does not measure the load > voltage > but the line voltage resulting in a inflated reading of approx. 115vac x > .6aac or 69 watts. I have confirmed this on a lutron wattmeter. > > Perhaps you should consider that pro conservation are now penalized for using > DC power, which is more efficient that AC (known as far back as T. Edison), > as the "legal" watthour meter not cannot measure it. The new digital meters > promise 1% accuracy and this is slated for investigation. > > This will all be posted one the site soon. > S. Rosenberg > Advance Power System From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 24 09:06:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA32095; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:47:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:47:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199704241544.IAA26466@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: Fw: flame Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:14:16 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zpm_y.0.Ir7.62uNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: Apsmail@aol.com > > To: CROSIAR@goldrush.com > Mr. Rosenthal: You are taking measurements at the bulb, not before yourr dc > inverter, if your device worked, I would have posted positive results. I > also would have done considerably more testing of the device. The real > truth came out when I put it on the PG&E watt meter. This meter showed that > the device uses the same number of watts as a conventional bulb with the > same light output. NO MORE NO LESS. I do not have a big head and would love > for you to show me a way to make this device use seven watts to produce 100 > watts of light, in the meantime can I send it back for a refund, since this > unit does not work as claimed? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 24 11:50:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA02908; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:40:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:40:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:34:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Jorg Ostrowski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: autonomous house system Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gdsyv.0.Mj.oawNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Further to the message of below, what is the most attractive, feasible and practical free energy system for operating and display purposes in an urban setting? We would like to build it to complement our present demo project. __________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), 3 demonstration projects in Canada built 1979, 1981, 1994, +80,000 visitors - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm _____________________________________________________________ On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, John Steck wrote: > No reason to waste hydrinos once made. Build a Sirling cycle generator and > close the H loop. Hydrino plant on one side, hydrino destablizer on the other. > The temperature gradient between the two sides could probably be very > attractive for efficient operation. Couple the device with a water tank and a > blower, and you could have a simple residential power plant for electric, hot > water, forced air heat, and forced air cooling. Might not be o/u or even self > sustaining, but could help reduce overall demand on current resources. The key > is the reformation of typical H from the hydrino and pulling the heat back in. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 24 12:05:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA01598; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:36:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:36:21 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:32:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Jorg Ostrowski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: H2 from permanent magnets? Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"j7NCa1.0.uO.aWwNp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can hydrogen be made by exposing a PM to water? Who has practical experience with this and is there an appropriate web site? __________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), 3 demonstration projects in Canada built 1979, 1981, 1994, +80,000 visitors - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm _____________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 24 15:17:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA07984; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:21 -0700 (PDT) From: M2Milly@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970424175515_-1836111206@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Physics Resent-Message-ID: <"hG9dr1.0.gy1.2SzNp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-04-22 Shannon writes: << To tell the truth, I'm open to all types of discussions. Although I am more interested in time travel and the different aspects seen there...I don't want to turn anyone off by generalizing it. So, anyone who wants to spurt: go right ahead. I'll just sit here, read, and reply. -Shannon >> Can I resist such an invitation!?:) The following if from mixed sources. (If anyone is interested I can give chapter + verse.) To Build a time Machine (Kip Thorne + Michael Morris + Ulvi Yurtsever) 1988 >From their unorthodox point of view, they did not particularly care if the energy requirements were well beyond 20th century science. To them it was an engineering problem for some future civilization actually to construct the time machine. They wanted to prove that it was scientifically feasible not that it was economical or within the bounds of present day science..... The laws of physics tell us what is possible, not what is practical. The laws of physics are independent of what it might cost to test them. Thus what is theoretically possible may exceed the gross national product of the planet earth. Thorne and his colleagues were careful to state that this *mythical civilization* that can harness the power of wormholes must be "arbitrarily advanced* -- that is, capable of performing all experiments that are possible.... The Great Pyramid as a Time Machine The tuning device, the instrument for bending time, was housed in the grand gallery. It was able to move up and down in a special cradle. Gases were brought up from deep within the earth underneath. There are deep shafts that go down miles and miles and miles until we hit the magma core. They were able to take that heat and gas, and fill a whole chamber, and then when the instrument operated, it was able to bend time in that chamber. The pressure exerted in those chambers was unbelievable. Thats why it (the pyramid) required so much mass. The purpose was to take individuals in there and to send them on a journey. The test was simple. You went into that room with a priest (technician) who has already mastered it, and if you were at the right attunement you could go there, and if you were not you would try again another time. People who perfected all of it were then able to go the stars to instantly be on other stars through a time warp. The ability to project your astral form and have total awareness there, or if you were well developed you could send your whole image there. Blueprint for a Time Machine One version of Thorne's timachine consists of two chambers each containing two parallel metal plates. The intense electric fields created betwen each pair of plates (larger than anything possible with today's technology) rips the fabric of space-time, creating a hole in space that links the two chambers. One chamber is then placed in a rocket ship and is accelerated to near-light velocities, while the other chamber stays on the earth. Since a wormhole can connect two regions of space with different times, a clock in the first chamber ticks slower than a clock in the second chamber. Because time would pass at different rates at the two ends of the wormhole, anyone falling into one end of the wormhole would be instantly hurled into the past or the future. Another time machine might look like the following: If exotic matter can be found and shaped like metal, then presumably the ideal shape would be a cylinder. A human stands in the center of the cylinder. The exotic matter then warps the space and time surrounding it, creating a wormhole that connects to a distant part of the universein a different time. A the center of vortex is the human, who then experiences no more than 1 g of gravitational stress as he or she is then sucked into the wormhole and finds himself or herself on the other end of the universe. On the surface, Thorne's mathematical reasoning is impeccable. Einstein's equations indeed show that wormhole solutions allow for time to pass at different rates on either side of the wormhole, so that time travel, in principle, is possible. The trick is to create the wormhole in the first place. As Thorne and his collaborators are quick to point out, the main problem is how to harness enough energy to create and maintain a wormhole with exotic matter. Normally, one of the basic tenets of elementary physics is that all objects have positive enrgy. Vibrating molecules, moving cars, flying birds and soaring rockets all have positive energy. By definition, the empty vacuum of space has zero energy. However, if we can produce objects with "negative energy" (that is, something that has an energy content less that the vacuum), then we might be able to generate exotic configuaritons of space and time in which time is bent into a circle. This rather simple concept goes by a complicated-sounding title: the Averaged Weak Energy Condition (AWEC). As Thorne is careful to point out, the AWEC must be violated: energy must beocme temporarily *negative* for time travel to be successful. However, negative energy would make possible antigravity and a host of other phenomena that have never been seen experimentally.... OR HAVE WE??? The Great Pyramid and Antigravity Phenomena Visualize the Giza plateau in Egypt as an island with flying craft resembling dirigibles, anchored to the ground with cables. Suspended beneath them are cradles containing large granite blocks. These large granite blocks, many of them weighing 100 tons, are cut by types of lasers at the Aswan quarry, and then transported by these airships. They are brought up the Nile on tethers to the site. On the site they use a technology involving electrostatic repulsion to levitate the blocks just enough so that they could then move them easily into position. Most of the limestone blocks that used form the base of the pyramid. More construction exists under the base than there is above it. Everything they took out from underneath the pyramid was all re-synthesized, pulverized, if you will, or re-liquified, and cast on site. OR IF YOUR PREFER THIS EXPLANATION.... They gathered at what we now call the Giza plateau in northern Egypt. They were drawn to this place because of its geographical location. They brought with them several smaller versions of the antigravity device that had destroyed their homeland. With these devices they were able to construct the Giza Complex containing the great pyramids, by rendering the huge blocks of stone temporarily weightless. Many of the blocks that were carved out of the Sphinx weighed in excess of 70 tons! They were relocated and raised to impressive heights to form the temple complex.... Upon closer examination of one of these antigravity units, I found a unipolar construction. That is it was constructed in such a way that it contained one isolated magnetic pole at its center, and the opposite magnetic pole uniformly surrounding the outside. Although these devices interact with the Earth's inner core, because of the Earth's unipolar construction, they were used in conjunction with a single much larger device of the same construction, but of the opposite polarity. I believe that one unipolar type of device (the larger type) was attracted by the earth, and the other type was repelled by it. Using unipolar devices of opposite polarity together, evidently greatly enhanced this effect to such a degree that great stones weighing many tons were rendered temporally weightless! Sorry to ramble, but the request was there! MjMichael in Houston at FutrConect -- Conect with the Future From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 04:07:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA10829; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:02:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:02:26 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970425070218_1617287420@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Parametric Amplification new tests. Resent-Message-ID: <"b6P-73.0.3f2.1z8Op"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I have put some new tests results and schemes about The Parametric Amplifier on my web server, you will find update about : * The Parametric Amplifier V1.0 : the first try * The Parametric Amplifier V2.1 : symetrical design with varactors * The Parametric Amplifier V3.1 : with a local oscillator (pump) I work today on version 4.1, with a variable inductor....its seems very promising... The direct link is : http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/paraconv.htm Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 07:32:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA02741; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:23:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:23:06 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:19:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Jorg Ostrowski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: gaia-h2@ix.netcom.com Subject: D-I-Y H2 from permanent magnets? Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gwMsS.0.lg.9vBOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A friend was able to observe the formation of bubbles in a beaker of water when a scrap piece of PM was placed beside it. How can we verify that that the bubbles formed were H2? Are these simple D-I-Y experiments worth continuing, with perhaps increased strengths of PM? We are interested in simple, safe and cost-effective (not high efficiency) production of hydrogen for autonomous buildings. Who else has already gone this route? Constructive comments and practical advice would be gratefully appreciated. __________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), 3 demonstration projects in Canada built 1979, 1981, 1994, +80,000 visitors - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm _____________________________________________________________ On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Horace Heffner wrote: > At 12:10 PM 4/24/97, Jorg Ostrowski wrote: > >Can hydrogen be made by exposing a PM to water? Who has practical > >experience with this and is there an appropriate web site? > [snip] > > Funny you should mention that. I just suggested just such a mechanism - > provided water (or a water based electrolyte) exhibits sufficient "creep" > or "grad B drift". If so, then a long enough device would provide the > potential to do electrolysis, without moving parts or supplied energy. > Unfortunately, the ions in an electrolyte are so packed together that I > don't think such an effect is even measureable. Sorry. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 10:49:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA31156; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:37:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:37:16 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:35:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704251735.MAA19104@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: D-I-Y H2 from permanent magnets? Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"GHNM11.0.fc7.BlEOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >A friend was able to observe the formation of bubbles in a beaker >of water when a scrap piece of PM was placed beside it. How can we verify >that that the bubbles formed were H2? Are these simple D-I-Y experiments >worth continuing, with perhaps increased strengths of PM? We are >interested in simple, safe and cost-effective (not high efficiency) >production of hydrogen for autonomous buildings. Who else has already gone >this route? Constructive comments and practical advice would be gratefully >appreciated. >__________________________________________________________ >Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect Probably the simplest way to verify if it is hydrogen is to collect the gas in a small test tube or bottle, inverted and full or water. If you can collect maybe half a tube full, hold your finger over the bottom and lift it out of solution, hold a match about a foot over it and invert it and let the gas escape. If you get a "poof" of flame, it's most likely hydrogen or a combination of hydrogen and oxygen gases. Be careful, though ... you don't want to blow up the test tube! Wear safety goggles to make sure. Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 13:20:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA15664; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:08:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:08:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:00:11 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: gaia-h2@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: D-I-Y H2 from permanent magnets? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jF3ee2.0.gq3.0zGOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i believe that i heard something about this kind of setup on Keelynet, or possibly bill Beaty's Weird science site. allegedly, it produced workable amounts of H and O2. John On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Jorg Ostrowski wrote: > > > A friend was able to observe the formation of bubbles in a beaker > of water when a scrap piece of PM was placed beside it. How can we verify > that that the bubbles formed were H2? Are these simple D-I-Y experiments > worth continuing, with perhaps increased strengths of PM? We are > interested in simple, safe and cost-effective (not high efficiency) > production of hydrogen for autonomous buildings. Who else has already gone > this route? Constructive comments and practical advice would be gratefully > appreciated. > __________________________________________________________ > Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect > in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), > 3 demonstration projects in Canada built 1979, 1981, 1994, +80,000 visitors > - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office > Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm > _____________________________________________________________ > On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 12:10 PM 4/24/97, Jorg Ostrowski wrote: > > >Can hydrogen be made by exposing a PM to water? Who has practical > > >experience with this and is there an appropriate web site? > > [snip] > > > > Funny you should mention that. I just suggested just such a mechanism - > > provided water (or a water based electrolyte) exhibits sufficient "creep" > > or "grad B drift". If so, then a long enough device would provide the > > potential to do electrolysis, without moving parts or supplied energy. > > Unfortunately, the ions in an electrolyte are so packed together that I > > don't think such an effect is even measureable. Sorry. > > > > Regards, > > > > Horace Heffner > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 18:08:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA19661; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:01:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:01:54 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC51B3.727CAB20@protactinium.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: H2 from permanent magnets? Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:47:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"W3qAA2.0.no4.1GLOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't know about that. Have you heard of a mechanical gill? That and = electroalisis (Forgive my poor spelling) are the only ways I know of = breaking down H2O. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 18:14:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA20237; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:06:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:06:45 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704260106.VAA23706@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Tesla To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:06:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"7uZ2t1.0.7y4.aKLOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To learn about Tesla and get some rare books, go to: http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 18:16:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA28355; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:09:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704260109.VAA23966@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: ANTIMAtter To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:09:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"6sieI.0.zw6.JNLOp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have wrote a report on Antimatter. Check it out at http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/science/science.html llok for it under the wierd science section! Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 18:20:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA28283; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:08:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199704260108.VAA23818@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Report on the science message area! To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:08:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"wy0vM.0.rv6.JMLOp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For some time the number of posts at http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/wwwboard/wwwboard.html was going up very fast. But now people have started to level off. Come see all the excitment before it is too late. To tell the truth, It could use some excitment... Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 25 19:39:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA31320; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:24:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:24:13 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:58:44 PST Subject: Re: parametric processes and the conservation "law" Message-ID: <19970425.191757.9166.0.tv@juno.com> References: <335AD522.22C9@mail.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6,8-24,26-28,30,32-34,36,38-40,42-44,47,49-50,52-57 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"wUcpx1.0.Hf7.CTMOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, I said: >> Also the article describes getting energy from an inductor by >>pushing a core into the coil and holding current steady. The work in this case >>is not supplied by putting the core into the coil, but instead by the >> current source. It would not take any work to put the core into the >> coil, in fact it will be sucked in like a solenoid. You said: >True. It's well known in these parametric processes that only half the >cycle requires work. I said: >> The way to get more electrical power like this is to yank the core >>out of the coil while it has current flowing through it. This will >>produce an EMF in the same direction as the original current flow. You said: >This is just a linear induction generator and has nothing to do with >parametric generation. We seem to have different ideas as to what causes amplification in a parametric amplifier. My understanding of parametric amplifiers is based on the model of some kind of energy storage device losing some of its capacity to store energy due a change in its dimensions or other parameters by some work being done on it. It would be analogous to reducing the size of a an air tank or an air cylinders so that the same amount of air would be stored in less volume under a greater pressure. Therefore the tank or cylinder would contain greater potential energy. A charged capacitor can be made to store more energy by pulling the plates apart or by reducing the dielectric constant (charge separations). An inductor can be made to store more energy by decreasing its inductance while a current is flowing through it. You can add energy to an inductor by pulling the core out of the inductor or reducing the permeability of the core (molecular magnet alignments) When you allow a coil to pull in the core and keep the current constant, its seems that the current source is doing the work of increasing the energy stored in the inductor. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 26 18:41:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA26262; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:37:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:37:33 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:59:04 +1000 Message-Id: <199704270259.MAA14303@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re:Changes made to my TESTAKICA PAGE Resent-Message-ID: <"3JKZ52.0.GQ6.StgOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >For those that are interested I have added some additional information to mt Testakica Page I have added what some consider to be whats inside the cans at the front and an experiment said to have been performed by PB to show how his device although no one else to my knowledge has been able to succesfully reproduce it. Maybe if you give it try let me of your your result. Many hands make light works and don't tell me too cooks spoilt the broth AS of last night and today my web server seems to have problems so try my page at a later date. Geoff Egel http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 06:07:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA21443; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 06:06:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 06:06:33 -0700 Message-ID: <33634E28.4CD5@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:01:30 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Q.P. References: <199704270141.SAA26707@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PdLVq3.0.vE5.OzqOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: MjMichael: What a lot of information for me to sit here and ponder over! Something that I have always believed in is that a "time machine" is constructable, but not feasible. Infact, sometimes it even hits me that one may have already been planned. Scientifically, it it perfect, but there is just not enough $ to go ahead with construction. Also, I might have figured some "Area 51 Complex" in to this path of thought without even knowing it. Perhaps there HAS been a machine constructed, but the general public doesn't know about it. Mass hysteria would result if the fact was made public that people had been sent into the past or future and not returned....learned about society's demise...went clinically insane after being "transported"...ect. Any ideas on this????? -Shannon "Eschew Obfuscation" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 06:17:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA22561; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 06:13:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 06:13:18 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970427091311_18909124@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Subject: About Variable Inductor Resent-Message-ID: <"sgeOx1.0.RW5.j3rOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I work now on a parametric power generator, which use a variable inductor ( with my special own design VARIND V4.0 ) : For a variation of voltage input in controler from 0 to 18 V, I have measured with my electronic inductance-meter ( Voltcraft digital multimeter VC506 accuracy +-3% ), a variation of the inductor's inductance from 0.13 H to 0.03 H. I have tested this device at frequency up to 50 kHZ without problem. The main characteristic of this variable inductor is that the energy needed to produce oscillations in the resonant-tank circuit and to supply useful power to a load is derived from the primary winding via parametric couplig term, i(dL/dt). There is no flux coupling L(di/dt) between the controler coil and the controled inductor. The flux paths of the two windings have independent existences. This Variable Inductor ( VARIND 4.0 ) is the main component of my Parametric Power Generator (PPG) device currently in development. You will find in my web server all curves and detailled specs of my Variable Inductor at : http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/params40.htm I conduct this research in synergy with Fred Epps for improving the performances of this device, and optimize the energy gain.....stay tuned.... Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 09:32:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA22004; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33637D97.35FC@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:23:53 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Q.P. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ThkeR1.0.eN5.gvtOp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: MjMichael: What a lot of information for me to sit here and ponder over! Something that I have always believed in is that a "time machine" is constructable, but not feasible. Infact, sometimes it even hits me that one may have already been planned. Scientifically, it it perfect, but there is just not enough $ to go ahead with construction. Also, I might have figured some "Area 51 Complex" in to this path of thought without even knowing it. Perhaps there HAS been a machine constructed, but the general public doesn't know about it. Mass hysteria would result if the fact was made public that people had been sent into the past or future and not returned....learned about society's demise...went clinically insane after being "transported"...ect. Any ideas on this????? -Shannon "Eschew Obfuscation" **One more quick question to everyone and anyone: When I post messages to the list, very frequently they are sent back to me as "undeliverable"....are they being "bounced" for a reason???** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 09:50:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA23838; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33634D54.1171@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 05:57:56 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: About Variable Inductor, Hendershot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p62pO1.0.Oq5._AuOp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Variable Inductees, It's great to be back online after working all week! >From Jean-Louis, > For a variation of voltage input in controller from 0 to 18 V, I have measured > with my electronic inductance-meter ( Voltcraft digital multimeter VC506 > accuracy +-3% ), a variation of the inductor's inductance from 0.13 H to 0.03 > H. This was done with very little current. Our efforts now are to increase the inductance variation with applied voltage. > There is no flux coupling L(di/dt) between the controller coil > and the controlled inductor. The flux paths of the two windings have > independent existences. Normally, in a parametric transformer, there is a back reaction into the primary due to the variation of its inductance by the secondary. Jean-Louis's device incorporates my idea of a magnet steel primary and a ferrite secondary and eliminates the usual loading on the primary. These are very encouraging results! Our creative interplay is going somewhere... I would like to begin a discussion on nonreciprocal systems, systems that include gyroscopes, gyrators, some types of electromechanical transducer systems, microwave noreciprocal phase shifters, ferromagnetic amplifiers, Hall effect generators, etc. The main distinction of all of these devices is that they violate Newton's law of action and reaction. There IS a reaction to the main force, but it is at right angles to it. The gyroscope most clearly illustrates this principle. The electrical version is a system that converts electromagnetic force into electric force. An example might be a magnetostrictive rod mechanically attached to a piezoelectric generator, but there are many more. These devices are described in the literature as imperfect realizations of the perfect gyrator. Real devices do have normal losses. These systems are not overunity in themelves but I believe they can be in conjuntion with low-loss resonant systems that recycle most of the energy. An example of this is a standard aviation gyroscope-- its rotor spins at high spped for 6 months or more because of the nearly friction-free bearings. (This is about as close a mechanical analog of superconductivity as you could find!) These elements of resonance and nonreciprocality can explain the Hendershot generator and the Testatika device, as well as predict the production of a nearly infinite variety of new systems all of which produce overunity. In another post I will describe how I think the Hendershot machine worked. I am just beginning my studies of these VERY interesting systems. I already have much more to say than I can put in an email. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 12:00:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA01188; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:00:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:00:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:00:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199704271900.MAA09396@ws6.aa.net> X-Sender: knuke@pop.aa.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: The Gary Magnetic Motor Resent-Message-ID: <"j4z9M1.0.SI.O9wOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wes writes: > By the way I have >confirmation from several sources on these devices that self rotate. One of >these persons, Michael Huffman, who holds such a patent is a member of this >list. It would be interesting if he would coment on the progress of his >device!! > Hi Wes, Yes, my machine did rotate on its' own three times, exhibiting a great deal of power, as I described in the first issue of Infinite Energy Magazine. I have been working to make it happen again ever since, but sofar have not been able to do so. The machine, however, is definitely overunity as it is, and as such, is still as interesting as say the "Griggs Gadget". Many of the variables affecting the performance have been identified through a long process of trial and error, and I still feel confident that, with continued effort, I can find the right combination of conditions/parameters that will make the device a true, self-sustaining generator. While I cannot describe exactly the experiments that I have performed because of contract limitations, I can say that I am very happy with the results to date. Thanks for your continued interest. -Knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 13:45:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA28048; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970427134453.00a68460@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:44:54 -0700 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Parametric comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"QMAem3.0.9s6.fhxOp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/paraintr.htm you write: >"One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude 1/2 LI*2 and if this >inductance is now increased in some manner, such as by inserting an iron core into L >(while holding I constant). then the stored electrical energy is increased. In this instance, >the mechanical energy required to insert the iron core and thus increase L, has been transformed >into stored electrical energy" Wrong !!! No mechanical energy input is required to insert the iron core into the inductor, BECAUSE iron core is attracted by the inductor itself, thus NO MECHANICAL ENERGY NEEDS TO BE EXPENDED !!! I would instead concentrate on the statement "...while holding I constant.." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 14:23:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA02771; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3363C2A6.5D2D@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:18:31 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Quantum Physics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MRyn42.0.9h.nEyOp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: MjMichael: What a lot of information for me to sit here and ponder over! Something that I have always believed in is that a "time machine" is constructable, but not feasible. Infact, sometimes it even hits me that one may have already been planned. Scientifically, it it perfect, but there is just not enough $ to go ahead with construction. Also, I might have figured some "Area 51 Complex" in to this path of thought without even knowing it. Perhaps there HAS been a machine constructed, but the general public doesn't know about it. Mass hysteria would result if the fact was made public that people had been sent into the past or future and not returned....learned about society's demise...went clinically insane after being "transported"...ect. Any ideas on this????? -Shannon "Eschew Obfuscation" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 14:47:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA05151; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970427144631.00a6652c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:46:33 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Wiqpb2.0.OG1.RbyOp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What do you think of this thought experiment? An air core inductor (coil) with inductance [L] and DC resistance [R] is supplied with electric current [I] by a power supply. The power supply is then DISCONNECTED and the inductor short circuited. * The electric current [I] circulates through the inductor creating magnetic field * The energy stored in the inductor equals [0.5LI^2] * This energy will be dissipated as heat in the resistance [R] of the inductor's windings at a rate [L/R] Thus if resistance [R] of the inductor's windings is zero (as in superconductor) the electric current will circulate forever in the inductor and will NEVER be dissipated. The energy stored in such an inductor with [R=0] will always be equal to [0.5LI^2] Now, if a non-conductive ferromagnetic material with high magnetic permeability is introduced to the space in proximity to our energized air core inductor (coil), then this ferromagnetic material will experience magnetic attraction toward the inductor (coil). The approach of this ferromagnetic material will increase the inductance [L] of our inductor because the permeability of the ferromagnetic material is much higher than the permeability of air. (>10,000) The increasing inductance [L] will cause the electric current [I] to decrease in such a way that the product [0.5LI^2] will be equal before and after the approach of the ferromagnetic material towards the coil. The final result will be that ferromagnetic material will be attracted closer to the inductor and the current circulating in the inductor will decrease in order to compensate for its increasing inductance [L]. Do you agree with the above thought experiment ??? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 15:05:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06837; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3363CD7F.3E67@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:34:47 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: About Variable Inductor, Hendershot References: <33634D54.1171@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DPGh93.0.kg1.isyOp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred B. Epps wrote: > > Hi Variable Inductees, > > It's great to be back online after working all week! > > >From Jean-Louis, > > > For a variation of voltage input in controller from 0 to 18 V, I have measured > > with my electronic inductance-meter ( Voltcraft digital multimeter VC506 > > accuracy +-3% ), a variation of the inductor's inductance from 0.13 H to 0.03 > > H. > > This was done with very little current. Our efforts now are to > increase the inductance variation with applied voltage. > > > There is no flux coupling L(di/dt) between the controller coil > > and the controlled inductor. The flux paths of the two windings have > > independent existences. > > Normally, in a parametric transformer, there is a back reaction into > the primary due to the variation of its inductance by the secondary. > Jean-Louis's device incorporates my idea of a magnet steel primary and a > ferrite secondary and eliminates the usual loading on the primary. Why do you believe the primary coil will see no change in the reluctance of the magnetic circuit it is driving as the secondary draws power? > These are very encouraging results! Our creative interplay is going > somewhere... > > I would like to begin a discussion on nonreciprocal systems, systems > that include gyroscopes, gyrators, some types of electromechanical > transducer systems, microwave noreciprocal phase shifters, ferromagnetic > amplifiers, Hall effect generators, etc. > The main distinction of all of these devices is that they violate > Newton's law of action and reaction. There IS a reaction to the main > force, but it is at right angles to it. The gyroscope most clearly > illustrates this principle. The electrical version is a system that > converts electromagnetic force into electric force. An example might be > a magnetostrictive rod mechanically attached to a piezoelectric > generator, but there are many more. These devices are described in the > literature as imperfect realizations of the perfect gyrator. > Real devices do have normal losses. These systems are not overunity > in themelves but I believe they can be in conjuntion with low-loss > resonant systems that recycle most of the energy. An example of this is > a standard aviation gyroscope-- its rotor spins at high spped for 6 > months or more because of the nearly friction-free bearings. (This is > about as close a mechanical analog of superconductivity as you could > find!) > These elements of resonance and nonreciprocality can explain the > Hendershot generator and the Testatika device, as well as predict the > production of a nearly infinite variety of new systems all of which > produce overunity. > In another post I will describe how I think the Hendershot machine > worked. > I am just beginning my studies of these VERY interesting systems. I > already have much more to say than I can put in an email. > > Fred -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 15:59:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA32506; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:59:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3363A4C1.5010@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:10:57 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: How did the Hendershot Device work? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M8HYP3.0.hx7.tezOp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Good People, I must apologize for the length of this email... HOW DID THE HENDERSHOT DEVICE WORK? In this analysis of how the Hendershot machine might have worked, I will make certain simplifying assumptions. First, I assume you are familiar with the circuit diagram and construction features of the Hendershot device. If not, you can find this information at I also assume the device can be analyzed as two parts, the coil/capacitor assembly and the "clapper" resonant circuit. The coil/capacitor (CC) is my major focus here, but I will point out later how the resonant energy-storing principle is essential to the operation of the device. THE COIL/CAPACITOR In examining the CC assembly we find a very interesting component that is quite likely to create overunity performance if used properly. (The basket-weave coil consists of braided windings over a modified electrolytic capacitor). It is common sense that the capacitor and coil are intended to interact. The question is, what is the nature of that interaction? Logically, there are three possibilities: 1) The coil affects the capacitor, but not the reverse. 2) The capacitor affects the coil, but not the reverse. 3) The coil affects the capacitor, and the reverse. I reject option 2 because there is no element in the coil that can be affected by a changing electric field in the capacitor. I reject option 3 because no true overunity device can be reciprocal-- it must be nonreciprocal. A reciprocal or 'two-way" device must always load the input and cause power loss at the input equivalent to the power gain. Let me explain what I mean by "reciprocal". Most systems that are encountered in everyday life and engineering practice are reciprocal in nature. What this means is that the energy relations are reversible. A good example is EM induction, where if the output of a motor becomes the input, the motor becomes a generator, and the energy relationship is reversed without being changed. This is an extension of Newton's law of action and reaction. It has been proven (1) that certain systems are nonreciprocal, that is, the outputs cannot be made inputs. It has also been proven (2) that any nonreciprocal device with electrical inputs and outputs must contain a magnetic field. The magnetic field has the property of changing the direction of applied forces without doing work-- this is essential to these types of systems. In nonreciprocal systems the output does not load the input. Imperfect, lossy nonreciprocal devices can be constructed in many forms, among them gyroscopes, gyrators, ferromagnetic amplifiers, microwave phase shifters, and Hall effect devices. Only the first option is capable of creating overunity performance: there must be a one-way interaction between the magnetic field of the coil and the capacitor. Otherwise the magnetic field must be loaded in some way, either inductively or parametrically, and the coil will lose energy. For there to be no losses in the core, it must 'see' the capacitor as basically an air core with an unvarying u of 1. THE COIL There are three ways to look at the braided windings of the coil: 1) They are inductive. In this case the braiding is not intended to reduce flux and there is considerable flux inside the capacitor. The operating principle involves standard magnetic fields. 2) They are noninductive. The flux is essentially prevented from entering the capacitor. The operation involves the magnetic vector potential. 3) They are both inductive and noninductive. I am not equipped to analyze the noninductive (scalar) aspects of the coil (perhaps Bob Shannon would like to look at that). I don't believe that it is necessary to invoke scalar fields to explain its operation. Thus I make the further, possibly incorrect, assumption that the coil uses only standard magnetic fields. THE COIL/CAPACITOR INTERACTION How might the magnetic field of the coil interact with the capacitor? At the risk of boring "old hands" I think it necessary to explain the action of an electroytic capacitor to show how this might happen. An electrolytic capacitor has an extra layer of liquid or solid electrolyte between one of the plates and the dielectric. This layer has two main functions-- it provides better contact between the metal and the dielectric, and seals tiny holes that form in the dielectric by electrical action. A liquid dielectric such as used in the Hendershot device has interesting electrical properties. It has a high dielectric coefficient k , as well as ionic conduction (3). Since obviously the ionic content has something to do with the value of k, and since moving ions are subject to Lorentz forces over their free path, it seems at least possible that a magnetic field through the coil would change the value of k and thus the C of the capacitor. I do not know enough chemistry to describe all the details but I have posted material on the magnetovoltiac effect and the experiments of Weiss who showed that magnets will affect the chemical and thus electrical conditions in wet cells. Hall effects exist in electrolytes (have to find the ref.) The particular mechanism that is involved need to be determined by experiment. I think it will prove to be an ionic Hall effect, but it might be scalar or something else. I am not as focussed on the specific mechanism of interaction as that there IS a one-way interaction where L changes C without C changing L. This is a nonreciprocal system. You may be familiar with the experiments that Jean-Louis Naudin and I are doing with varactors. These APPEAR nonreciprocal at the voltage levels we are using because the output voltage is not high enough to appreciably affect the control voltage. At higher output voltages the device goes into nonlinear operation (frequency doubling mode). This mode does affect the input, sometimes cancelling the control voltage, so it is definitely not a nonreciprocal sytem. Also, keep in mind the existing proof that all electrical nonreciprocal systems must contain a magnetic field. Hendershot's coil/capacitor appears to be a true nonreciprocal system. The theorems for nonreciprocality were proven for a low-frequency system consisting of an electromagnetic transducer mechanically coupled to an electrostatic or piezoelectric transducer. The general form of these devices is "magnetic--mechanical or material coupling--electric". Hendershot's device fits this pattern well, being "magnetic induction--mechanical properties of ions--capacitance". RESONANCE Nonreciprocal systems are usually lossy, although some microwave ferrite systems can operate with very low insertion loss. How does such a system go overunity? Through resonance. Remember that the nonreciprocal system by definition does not load the input. It cannot change the input in any way, so whatever state the input was in at the beginning of the process is the same state its in at the end of the process. If the input is a resonant circuit, only the electrical losses in the input need be considered because we can ignore the output by definition. The fact that power is being transferred to a load through the nonreciprocal element cannot influence the operation of the circuit. At a certain Q in the input circuit and at a certain level of loss in the noreciprocal element, the circuit will go overunity. It should be pointed out that the output in Hendershot's device was due to variation of the capacitance in the CC assembly and thus drove the output circuits parametrically. This is why his circuit required constant tuning. The Mathieu equations for parametric oscillations have many areas of instability for different ranges of frequency and power. These considerations allow for the design of many types of overunity system in many media. Everything from purely mechanical devices like gyroscopes to solid-state ceramic resonators could be called into play. They also allow us to understand, predict, and duplicate the operation of devices like the Testatika and the Hendershot device. I would be happy to discuss building projects with anyone who is interested. Fred Epps Refs: 1) "Violation Of The Reciprocity Theorem In Linear Passive Electromechanical Systems" by Edwin McMillan, J. Acous. Soc. Am. (18), 344 (1946) "Coordinates And The Reciprocity Theorem In Electromechanical Systems" by John W. Miles, J. Acous. Soc. Am. (19), 910 (1947) 2) "Reciprocal Relations In Irreversible Processes I, II" by Lars Onsager, Phys. Rev. (37) , pp. 405-426 (1931) Some Aspects Of Onsager's Theory Of Reciprocal Relations In Irreversible Process" by H.B.G. Casimir, Nuovo Cimento Suppl. (6), pp. 227-231 (1949) 3) Electrolytic Condensers, by Philip Coursey, Chapman and Hall, 1937 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 17:30:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA20376; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:30:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:30:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3363EF60.1DA4@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:59:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zihue.0.C-4.O--Op"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jean-Louis, On your "PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION" web page you state: "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the stored electrical energy is increased. In this instance, the mechanical energy required to insert the iron core and thus increase L, has been transformed into stored electrical energy. This is an example of parametric power transfer. (see Equation 1)" This statement is incorrect. NO energy is required to insert the iron core into the inductor. It is ATTRACTED into the core and the resultant increased coil energy is pumped back into the power source (coil current drops)! I suggest you rethink the sequence of events thus related to this. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 18:52:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA05199; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3363CD5E.3F6E@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:04:14 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: parametric processes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yC_mB3.0.7H1.4B0Pp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Tim and all, > I said: > >> The way to get more electrical power like this is to yank the core > >>out of the coil while it has current flowing through it. This will > >>produce an EMF in the same direction as the original current flow. > > You said: > >This is just a linear induction generator and has nothing to do with > >parametric generation. > > We seem to have different ideas as to what causes amplification in a > parametric > amplifier. > > My understanding of parametric amplifiers is based on the model of some > kind > of energy storage device losing some of its capacity to store energy due > a change > in its dimensions or other parameters by some work being done on it. Tim, you're quite right about the example of yanking the core out of the coil. I'm so used to thinking about noninductive situations that I didn't recognize your example as parametric, because it also has inductive aspects. Inductive and parametric energy relations are usually found together, after all. sorry for misinterpreting your comment. Our understanding (on this point at least) is identical. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 19:39:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA17175; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 19:39:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 19:39:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3363D8A0.3A5@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:52:16 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: wild and creepy idea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yOfJw3.0.CC4.Wt0Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Hugh and others, I have not been following the "creepy' thread too closely so I may be way off base here, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. Did anyone read my post on the Corbino effect? It is a bulk metal Hall effect (shows up in Bismuth most strongly). A current can be generated by the Corbino effect by a DC magnetic field varying between 0 and 800 gausses (for Bi). This current arises from the Lorentz effect in a Bismuth disc with electrodes on the center and periphery. The Hall and Corbino effects are nonreciprocal processes-- there is no back reaction from the current in the disc to the magnetic field that produced it (look at my post today on how the Hendershot device worked). The disc does not load the magnet, so if the magnet is an inductor in a resonant circuit it will experience only the resistive losses typical of such circuits. At the proper frequency of operation the disc should put out more energy than is being used to maintain the resonance in the primary. Also: > How to test? Plasmas require lots of energy to maintain, so maybe produce > too much noise. Electrolyte, may be a possibility, but the ions are > massive and highly confined. A superconductor seems like the logical How about an ionic conductor? A piece of B-alumina ceramic will easily conduct sodium ions. I had suggested this before on the list as a way of creating a centrifugal current (Tolman effect) that would be many magnitudes larger than those generated by the mass of an electron. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 19:49:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA13165; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 19:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 19:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33640F9E.1F0D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:16:54 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Hrhlf3.0.SD3.N01Pp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, I have just finished testing the first rotary version of my "Simple OU Device". The unit will, at present, will not totally self run. If spun by hand and some non moving external components are removed, the unit takes approx 25-30 seconds to stop rotation. If I then insert into place the external non moving components and spin up the rotary assy as before, the unit will spin for 80-90 seconds. As before, no coils, electricity or other conventional energy sources are involved. Frictional losses, at present, are high. I am building another unit with bearings and such. Should work much better. Will keep you informed. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:00:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA21356; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:00:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:00:36 -0700 Message-ID: <336457C6.1D25@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:54:46 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: [Fwd: Re: overunity transformer ideas] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------443E48641319" Resent-Message-ID: <"rIaud.0.bD5.IB1Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------443E48641319 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didnt see this message get to the f/e list so I sent it again. NOTE TO FRED: I still havent got anything from you Fred. Did you send me something in the mail? --------------443E48641319 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <335E2697.5004@triode.net.au> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:11:19 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: overunity transformer ideas References: <335D01BB.3354@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fred B. Epps wrote: > > Hi Tim and all, > "In order to understand the operation of the primary side of the > transformer, it is necessary to realize that the primary inductance is > also made to vary by the secondary flux. This can be easily seen from > figure 1 which shows that the common regions of the magnetic circuit are > also part of the primary flux path [figure 1 shows an AC source in > series with a resistance and a periodically-varying inductance]. It is > helpful to view this variation in the primary inductance as the reaction > of the secondary..." > It's clear from these relations that the permeabilities can vary > independently of each other. In the present case where power is created > in the output circuit by a variation in the permeability of the inserted > section, and where it is desired to eliminate variation of permeability > in the primary, one chooses a material with a low variation in u over > varying H for the primary and a high variation in u over varying H for > the secondary. > This should result in a parametric device where little power is lost > in the primary and more power is gained in the secondary: an overunity > device. > Fred Fred, I still dont have your papers yet but they tell me that there is a postal item waiting for me at CISS. I will pick it up Friday evening. I like you thoughts Fred. I agree that the secondary affects the input despite the input cancelling into the output winding. I predict there will be a strong second harmonic EMF with virtually no fundamental appearing in the primary winding due to the non-linear nature of the magnetic material - given a sinusoidal at the secondary. Tim, I do believe that magnetic amplifiers have a core material with an almost rectangular BH curve. Amplification occurs due to the steep vertical slope of the BH square. The input, or control, winding has a high input impedance and is voltage driven - ie almost no input current - ideal. Saturable reactor art goes back to the turn of the century and was very prominent in the 50s. There are a lot of papers on it. The military mainly - servo systems etc. --- Maxwell Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" Spike Milligan - Goon Show - --------------443E48641319-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:01:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA14968; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:52:30 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"E1d3l2.0.if3.iB1Pp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Message-ID: <33645569.74C7@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:44:42 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION References: <3363EF60.1DA4@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Watson wrote: > "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude > 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as > by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the > stored electrical energy is increased. But you have to do work in holding the current constant, i.e, fight the voltage induced across the inductor as the inductance changes. --- Maxwell Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" Spike Milligan - Goon Show - From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:02:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA22054 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:02:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:02:24 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun Apr 27 20:02:18 1997 Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com (hil-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.177.137]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA21667 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:02:15 -0700 Received: by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA07438; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:01:52 -0400 Old-Date: 27 Apr 97 22:56:02 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428025601_515664.456256_IHO41-61@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 34 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: wild and creepy idea Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA07616; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:42:05 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA17174; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 19:39:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 19:39:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3363D8A0.3A5@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:52:16 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: wild and creepy idea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yOfJw3.0.CC4.Wt0Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Hugh and others, I have not been following the "creepy' thread too closely so I may be way off base here, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. Did anyone read my post on the Corbino effect? It is a bulk metal Hall effect (shows up in Bismuth most strongly). A current can be generated by the Corbino effect by a DC magnetic field varying between 0 and 800 gausses (for Bi). This current arises from the Lorentz effect in a Bismuth disc with electrodes on the center and periphery. The Hall and Corbino effects are nonreciprocal processes-- there is no back reaction from the current in the disc to the magnetic field that produced it (look at my post today on how the Hendershot device worked). The disc does not load the magnet, so if the magnet is an inductor in a resonant circuit it will experience only the resistive losses typical of such circuits. At the proper frequency of operation the disc should put out more energy than is being used to maintain the resonance in the primary. Also: > How to test? Plasmas require lots of energy to maintain, so maybe produce > too much noise. Electrolyte, may be a possibility, but the ions are > massive and highly confined. A superconductor seems like the logical How about an ionic conductor? A piece of B-alumina ceramic will easily conduct sodium ions. I had suggested this before on the list as a way of creating a centrifugal current (Tolman effect) that would be many magnitudes larger than those generated by the mass of an electron. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:07:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA22685 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:07:36 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:07:36 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun Apr 27 20:07:31 1997 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA22429 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:07:29 -0700 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA19755; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:06:59 -0400 Old-Date: 27 Apr 97 18:00:18 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970427220017_515664.456256_IHB80-39@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 34 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 [Fwd: Re: overunity transformer ideas] Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA12764; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:02:02 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA21355; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:00:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:00:36 -0700 Message-ID: <336457C6.1D25@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:54:46 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: [Fwd: Re: overunity transformer ideas] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------443E48641319" Resent-Message-ID: <"rIaud.0.bD5.IB1Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------443E48641319 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didnt see this message get to the f/e list so I sent it again. NOTE TO FRED: I still havent got anything from you Fred. Did you send me something in the mail? --------------443E48641319 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <335E2697.5004@triode.net.au> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:11:19 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: overunity transformer ideas References: <335D01BB.3354@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fred B. Epps wrote: > > Hi Tim and all, > "In order to understand the operation of the primary side of the > transformer, it is necessary to realize that the primary inductance is > also made to vary by the secondary flux. This can be easily seen from > figure 1 which shows that the common regions of the magnetic circuit are > also part of the primary flux path [figure 1 shows an AC source in > series with a resistance and a periodically-varying inductance]. It is > helpful to view this variation in the primary inductance as the reaction > of the secondary..." > It's clear from these relations that the permeabilities can vary > independently of each other. In the present case where power is created > in the output circuit by a variation in the permeability of the inserted > section, and where it is desired to eliminate variation of permeability > in the primary, one chooses a material with a low variation in u over > varying H for the primary and a high variation in u over varying H for > the secondary. > This should result in a parametric device where little power is lost > in the primary and more power is gained in the secondary: an overunity > device. > Fred Fred, I still dont have your papers yet but they tell me that there is a postal item waiting for me at CISS. I will pick it up Friday evening. I like you thoughts Fred. I agree that the secondary affects the input despite the input cancelling into the output winding. I predict there will be a strong second harmonic EMF with virtually no fundamental appearing in the primary winding due to the non-linear nature of the magnetic material - given a sinusoidal at the secondary. Tim, I do believe that magnetic amplifiers have a core material with an almost rectangular BH curve. Amplification occurs due to the steep vertical slope of the BH square. The input, or control, winding has a high input impedance and is voltage driven - ie almost no input current - ideal. Saturable reactor art goes back to the turn of the century and was very prominent in the 50s. There are a lot of papers on it. The military mainly - servo systems etc. --- Maxwell Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" Spike Milligan - Goon Show - --------------443E48641319-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:13:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA16880 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:13:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun Apr 27 20:13:14 1997 Received: from hil-img-2.compuserve.com (hil-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.177.132]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA16709 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA29322; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:12:11 -0400 Old-Date: 27 Apr 97 23:02:19 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428030218_515664.456256_IHC86-11@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to arl-img-2.compuserve.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA10705; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:03:32 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnea22623; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA14966; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:52:30 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"E1d3l2.0.if3.iB1Pp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Message-ID: <33645569.74C7@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:44:42 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION References: <3363EF60.1DA4@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Watson wrote: > "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude > 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as > by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the > stored electrical energy is increased. But you have to do work in holding the current constant, i.e, fight the voltage induced across the inductor as the inductance changes. --- Maxwell Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" Spike Milligan - Goon Show - From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:15:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA17403 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:15:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun Apr 27 20:15:00 1997 Received: from dub-img-6.compuserve.com (dub-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.206.136]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA17193 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA12329; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:14:02 -0400 Old-Date: 27 Apr 97 22:45:41 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428024540_515664.456256_CHU32-4@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: parametric processes Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA19701; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:54:54 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA05198; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3363CD5E.3F6E@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:04:14 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: parametric processes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yC_mB3.0.7H1.4B0Pp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Tim and all, > I said: > >> The way to get more electrical power like this is to yank the core > >>out of the coil while it has current flowing through it. This will > >>produce an EMF in the same direction as the original current flow. > > You said: > >This is just a linear induction generator and has nothing to do with > >parametric generation. > > We seem to have different ideas as to what causes amplification in a > parametric > amplifier. > > My understanding of parametric amplifiers is based on the model of some > kind > of energy storage device losing some of its capacity to store energy due > a change > in its dimensions or other parameters by some work being done on it. Tim, you're quite right about the example of yanking the core out of the coil. I'm so used to thinking about noninductive situations that I didn't recognize your example as parametric, because it also has inductive aspects. Inductive and parametric energy relations are usually found together, after all. sorry for misinterpreting your comment. Our understanding (on this point at least) is identical. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:18:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA17867 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:18:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu Sun Apr 27 20:18:25 1997 Received: from TREX.CCC-INFONET.EDU (ptero.ccc-infonet.edu [205.186.195.4]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA17828 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trex.ccc-infonet.edu (Wildcat) id 18147W Mon, 28 Apr 1997 03:17:48 GMT From: tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu (Tim Vaughan) Subject: Wesley Gary Magnet Motor Pix Old-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 03:17:39 GMT Message-Id: <862197459@trex.ccc-infonet.edu> Organization: Yosemite Community College District To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Attached are the figures from the Gary Magnet Motor discussed on this list. These figures are stored as GIF files and zipped up using PKZIP. Type to unpack the 5 GIF files. I cleaned up the pictures a bit but left alone any part that was not clearly discernable. Please feel free to post of Web pages or whatever. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:25:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA25002; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:24:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:24:59 -0700 From: tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu (Tim Vaughan) Subject: Gary Magnet Motor Pictures Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 03:24:46 GMT Message-Id: <862197886@trex.ccc-infonet.edu> Organization: Yosemite Community College District To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"5a1s53.0.V66.AY1Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Attached are the figures from the article about Wesley Gary from 1878 in Harpers Magazine. I have cleaned up some of the "noise". Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 20:26:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA25357; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:26:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: <336418C4.54BF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:55:56 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] References: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yXx3K2.0.6C6.RZ1Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Maxwell wrote: > > Subject: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:44:42 -0700 > From: Maxwell > To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au > References: <3363EF60.1DA4@microtronics.com.au> > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude > > 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as > > by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the > > stored electrical energy is increased. > > But you have to do work in holding the current constant, i.e, fight the > voltage induced across the inductor as the inductance changes. If you hold the coil current constant, the iron core will be sucked in even harder. The coil current drops in an attempt to hold coil energy constant. > --- > Maxwell > > Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" > Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. > Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" > Spike Milligan - Goon Show - -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 21:16:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA00102; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:16:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:16:44 -0700 Message-ID: <33646AA1.624B@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:15:13 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] References: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> <336418C4.54BF@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"apNPn2.0.V1.hI2Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Greg Watson wrote: > > > "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude > > > 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as > > > by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the > > > stored electrical energy is increased. > > > > But you have to do work in holding the current constant, i.e, fight the > > voltage induced across the inductor as the inductance changes. > > If you hold the coil current constant, the iron core will be sucked in > even harder. Correct. And more energy (VxI) comes from the power supply. > > The coil current drops in an attempt to hold coil energy constant. I agree. Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 21:25:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA29566 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:25:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun Apr 27 21:25:20 1997 Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com (arl-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.136]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA29312 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA07687; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:23:35 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 00:17:26 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428041725_515664.456256_JHG79-40@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 33 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA22986; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:18:57 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA00101; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:16:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:16:44 -0700 Message-ID: <33646AA1.624B@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:15:13 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] References: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> <336418C4.54BF@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"apNPn2.0.V1.hI2Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Greg Watson wrote: > > > "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude > > > 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as > > > by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the > > > stored electrical energy is increased. > > > > But you have to do work in holding the current constant, i.e, fight the > > voltage induced across the inductor as the inductance changes. > > If you hold the coil current constant, the iron core will be sucked in > even harder. Correct. And more energy (VxI) comes from the power supply. > > The coil current drops in an attempt to hold coil energy constant. I agree. Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 22:53:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA11452; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33643B1B.321B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:22:27 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] References: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> <336418C4.54BF@microtronics.com.au> <33646AA1.624B@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ASZXG2.0.qo2.6j3Pp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Maxwell wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude > > > > 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as > > > > by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the > > > > stored electrical energy is increased. > > > > > > But you have to do work in holding the current constant, i.e, fight the > > > voltage induced across the inductor as the inductance changes. > > > > If you hold the coil current constant, the iron core will be sucked in > > even harder. > > Correct. And more energy (VxI) comes from the power supply. Incorrect. Hold supply voltage constant and supply current DROPS as the core is attracted. Hold supply current constant and the supply voltage DROPS as the core is attracted. Don't believe me? TRY it yourself! > > The coil current drops in an attempt to hold coil energy constant. > > I agree. > > Maxwell. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 27 23:29:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA20560; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:28:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:28:58 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970428022852_-1468385859@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: About Variable Inductor, Hendershot Resent-Message-ID: <"0cHx6.0.515.gE4Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 27/04/1997 23:07:51 , Greg Watson wrote : << Why do you believe the primary coil will see no change in the reluctance of the magnetic circuit it is driving as the secondary draws power? >> Hi Greg, This is not a believe, this is the reality :-) I have made some tests, by short-circuiting the secondary. If you are interested I can send or put in my web the scope pictures of this test. The topology is such that the primary flux does not link the secondary winding and that the secondary flux does not link the primary winding. (according, the classical flux coupling or mutual inductance is zero). Excessive current demand in the load simply cause the output voltage to collapse to zero. Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 00:03:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA23263; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:03:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:03:09 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 03:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970428030302_-1232746873@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: epitaxy@localaccess.com Subject: Re : PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION Resent-Message-ID: <"50xMj3.0.Lh5.ik4Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 28/04/1997 01:31:38 , Greg Watson wrote : << This statement is incorrect. NO energy is required to insert the iron core into the inductor. It is ATTRACTED into the core and the resultant increased coil energy is pumped back into the power source (coil current drops)! I suggest you rethink the sequence of events thus related to this. >> On 28/04/1997 01:31:38 , Epitaxy wrote : << No mechanical energy input is required to insert the iron core into the inductor, BECAUSE iron core is attracted by the inductor itself, thus NO MECHANICAL ENERGY NEEDS TO BE EXPENDED !!! >> Hi Greg and Epitaxy, I completly AGREE WITH YOU, sorry its a retransciption of the article "The PARAFORMER (TM), "A new passive power conversion device" by Dr S.D.Wanlass and Dr L.K. Wanlass", I have changed this part with your comment today.... Thanks for your comments, .... If you are interested to write some additionals comments about theory on this subject, simply send it to me and I put this in my web server. Nice to speak with you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager, UIN: 747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 02:02:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA00972; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:02:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:02:33 -0700 Message-Id: <33643217.5501@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:13:59 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: screwed up email Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jOAm42.0.1F.eU6Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, I am having trouble with my POP server. I have only just now read the last 40 or so posts to me, by digging out an older email program. Sorry to those who have sent and wonder about replies. I should be in circulation by tomorrow. major :-[ Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 02:08:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA01876 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:08:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:08:29 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 02:08:26 1997 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com (dub-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA01632 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:08:24 -0700 Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA21103; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:07:53 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 05:03:59 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428090358_515664.456256_IHC54-24@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 35 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 screwed up email Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA01817; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:03:24 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA00971; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:02:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:02:33 -0700 Message-Id: <33643217.5501@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:13:59 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: screwed up email Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jOAm42.0.1F.eU6Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, I am having trouble with my POP server. I have only just now read the last 40 or so posts to me, by digging out an older email program. Sorry to those who have sent and wonder about replies. I should be in circulation by tomorrow. major :-[ Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 02:14:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA02549; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:14:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:14:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:36:55 +1000 Message-Id: <199704281036.UAA20767@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re:Changes made to my TESTAKICA PAGE Resent-Message-ID: <"jVjRe1.0.jd.vf6Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:59 PM 4/27/97 +1000, you wrote: > >>For those that are interested I have added some >additional information to my Testakica Page I have added what some consider >to be whats on the inside the cans at the front and an experiment said to have been >performed by PB to show how his device although no one else to my knowledge >has been able to succesfully reproduce it. > Maybe if you give it try and you can get it to work ,let me know of your your results or even what you did in your experiment when it didn't work. if we try all possibilities we must get closer. >Many hands make light works and don't tell me too cooks spoilt the broth > >My web server now seems to be working correctly >Geoff Egel >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 02:20:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA03378 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:20:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:20:23 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 02:20:19 1997 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA03133 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:20:18 -0700 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA06665; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:19:47 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 05:14:14 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428091413_515664.456256_IHJ62-15@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 36 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re:Changes made to my TESTAKICA PAGE Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA24739; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:15:30 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA02548; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:14:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:14:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:36:55 +1000 Message-Id: <199704281036.UAA20767@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re:Changes made to my TESTAKICA PAGE Resent-Message-ID: <"jVjRe1.0.jd.vf6Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:59 PM 4/27/97 +1000, you wrote: > >>For those that are interested I have added some >additional information to my Testakica Page I have added what some consider >to be whats on the inside the cans at the front and an experiment said to have been >performed by PB to show how his device although no one else to my knowledge >has been able to succesfully reproduce it. > Maybe if you give it try and you can get it to work ,let me know of your your results or even what you did in your experiment when it didn't work. if we try all possibilities we must get closer. >Many hands make light works and don't tell me too cooks spoilt the broth > >My web server now seems to be working correctly >Geoff Egel >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 04:40:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA16595; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:40:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:40:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970428044052.00a5b2ec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:40:53 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Parametric processes - error notes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Kgc7R1.0.C34.4p8Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is bad news for you since yanking the ferromagnetic core out of the coil INCREASES your supply current if the coil is connected to the power supply that supplies the current to the coil. In case of a closed coil which has the electric current circulating through it WITHOUT an external power supply (yes this is possible !), the action of yanking the core out of the coil will increase the current flowing through the coil and decrease the inductance of the coil accordingly in such a way that the product 0.5LI^2 will be equal BEFORE & AFTER the "yanking" ! Theoretically, if the closed coil has no electrical resistance (as in a superconducting coil) the electric current circulating through it will continue FOREVER since there is no resistance to dissipate it as heat (I^2R) For the uninitiated the I means current the L means inductance and the expression 0.5LI^2 means the energy stored in the coil. This may sound as bad news to you, but upon deeper consideration it is NOT ! At 03:04 PM 4/27/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Tim and all, > >> I said: >> >> The way to get more electrical power like this is to yank the core >> >>out of the coil while it has current flowing through it. This will >> >>produce an EMF in the same direction as the original current flow. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 04:48:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA17915 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:48:51 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:48:51 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 04:48:48 1997 Received: from hil-img-2.compuserve.com (hil-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.177.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA17661 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:48:47 -0700 Received: by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id HAA12178; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:48:17 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 07:40:05 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428114004_515664.456256_JHM46-2@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 37 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Parametric processes - error notes Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id HAA21800; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:41:37 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA16594; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:40:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:40:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970428044052.00a5b2ec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:40:53 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Parametric processes - error notes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Kgc7R1.0.C34.4p8Pp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is bad news for you since yanking the ferromagnetic core out of the coil INCREASES your supply current if the coil is connected to the power supply that supplies the current to the coil. In case of a closed coil which has the electric current circulating through it WITHOUT an external power supply (yes this is possible !), the action of yanking the core out of the coil will increase the current flowing through the coil and decrease the inductance of the coil accordingly in such a way that the product 0.5LI^2 will be equal BEFORE & AFTER the "yanking" ! Theoretically, if the closed coil has no electrical resistance (as in a superconducting coil) the electric current circulating through it will continue FOREVER since there is no resistance to dissipate it as heat (I^2R) For the uninitiated the I means current the L means inductance and the expression 0.5LI^2 means the energy stored in the coil. This may sound as bad news to you, but upon deeper consideration it is NOT ! At 03:04 PM 4/27/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Tim and all, > >> I said: >> >> The way to get more electrical power like this is to yank the core >> >>out of the coil while it has current flowing through it. This will >> >>produce an EMF in the same direction as the original current flow. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 04:49:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA06474 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:49:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Mon Apr 28 04:49:37 1997 Received: from mail1.halcyon.com (mail1.halcyon.com [206.63.63.40]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA06438 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-pm0-ip6.halcyon.com by mail1.halcyon.com (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/10Nov96-0444PM) id AA09443; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:49:38 -0700 Old-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:49:38 -0700 Message-Id: <9704281149.AA09443@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Sender: fepps@mail.halcyon.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com (Fred Epps) Subject: JNaudin's parametric inductor X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Hi Greg, Jean-Louis, Epitaxy, and others >On 27/04/1997 23:07:51 , Greg Watson wrote : > ><< > Why do you believe the primary coil will see no change in the reluctance > of the magnetic circuit it is driving as the secondary draws power? > >> > >Hi Greg, > >This is not a believe, this is the reality :-) I have made some tests, by >short-circuiting the secondary. If you are interested I can send or put in my >web the scope pictures of this test. The topology is such that the primary >flux does not link the secondary winding and that the secondary flux does not >link the primary winding. (according, the classical flux coupling or mutual >inductance is zero). Excessive current demand in the load simply cause the >output voltage to collapse to zero. > Hi Greg, Jean-Louis, Epitaxy, and others, I have been having trouble with my email but I want to respond to many posts in a rambling fashion. I think the key points in this discussion about parametric power conversion are: The discussion about the work needed to put the metal rod into the coil: I assume the work is conservative over the whole cycle of activity. It takes exactly as much work to pull the rod out of the coil as the coil attracts. so the whole action of the energy to change the inductance can be left out of the equation. The real question is, when the parametric induction occurs, is there a force generated by the secondary that at any point opposes and loads the primary? I agree in part with Greg who expects to see a back reaction even in an entirely parametric circuit because of the variation of the reluctance in the primary by the secondary parametric current. (I hope I've paraphrased you accurately Greg). I thought up the two-core idea as a stopgap measure. I did not believe I could eliminate parametric back-reaction by this method but hoped to limit it. I considered it at least possible that LOCAL changes in permeability around the coils would be more important in determining the level of parametric excitation in those coils than the change in the TOTAL magnetic field due to the change in TOTAL reluctance. It looks as if maybe I'm right by experiment. I suspect that using the two-core idea will limit the useful inductance variation or power available from this type of device, or set an upper limit on the loading before the oscillations collapse as is typical in parametric systems. But the intention was to eliminate as much as possible of the loading on the voltage driver circuit. There may be another factor influencing the lack of reaction that Jean-Louis Naudin sees in the primary. I have learned from papers on nonreciprocal systems that a truly "one-way" system must be a form of gyrator which converts an inductance into a capacitance but not a capacitance back into an inductance. The parametric transformers we have been discussing are reciprocal if there is a capacitor (resonant circuit) across both input and output. In this situation a varying voltage across the outputs will show up at the input due to parametric induction of the primary by the secondary. But what happens if there is no capacitor across the input? When you remove the capacitor across the OUTPUT of any of these gadgets parametric oscillations cease and there is no voltage buildup in the secondary. The same should be true of the input. If there is no capacitor in the primary the permeability still varies, but the oscillations that would give rise to counter EMFs in the primary are not there. Oddly, for this type of circuit a high-impedance driver as Jean-Louis used rather than a resonant input circuit might be better. His circuit has worked better than I could have imagined it. We will be pursuing two goals in regards to the variable inductor, improving the power efficiency of the driver circuit and increasing the inductance variation. There are quite a number of ingenious schemes for doing this, some have turned up in a literature survey and some we came up with ourselves. It's going to be fun and easy to create free energy! A NOTE: At this time I do not believe that a parametric circuit is necessary for creating overunity although it has advantages. The important thing is that it contain a resonating storehouse of energy and a nearly or completely one-way channel between it and the load. The most practical of these machines connect an electrostatic transducer to an electromagnetic one. I will be describing a device with operating principles similar to the Testatika machine very soon based on my new understanding of nonreciprocal systems. In the quest for overunity, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 05:40:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA10345; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704281239.IAA005.57@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: "Charlie Hodgson" Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 08:37:40 -0400 To: Freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: NPR/PBS Funding Petition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.24 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"NS4oQ3.0.WX2.Ih9Pp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is for anyone who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes. A petition follows. If you sign, please forward on to others (not back to me). If not, please don't kill it -- send it to the email address listed here: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu PBS, NPR (National Public Radio), and the arts are facing major cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to reduce spending costs and streamline their services, some government officials believe that the funding currently going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something which is seen as "unworthwhile". Currently, taxes from the general public for PBS equal $1.12 per person per year, and the National Endowment for the Arts equals $.64 a year in total. A January 1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that 76% of Americans wish to keep funding for PBS, third only to national defense and law enforcement as the most valuable programs for federal funding. Each year, the Senate and House Appropriations committees each have 13 subcommittees with jurisdiction over many programs and agencies. Each subcommittee passes its own appropriation bill. The goal each year is to have each bill signed by the beginning of the fiscal year, which is October 1. The only way that our representatives can be aware of the base of support for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by making our voices heard. Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends if you believe in what we stand for. This list will be forwarded to the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, and Representative Newt Gingrich, who is the instigator of the action to cut funding to these worthwhile programs. If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th etc. signer of this petition, please forward a copy to wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu. If that address is inoperative, please send it to kubi7975@blue.univnorthco.edu. This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward this to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive. Thank you. 1) Elizabeth Weinert, student, University of Northern Colorado, Greeley, CO 2) Robert M. Penn, San Francisco, CA 3) Gregory S. Williamson, San Francisco, CA 4) Daniel C. Knightly, Austin, TX 5) Andrew H. Knightly, Los Angeles, CA 6) Aaron C. Yeater, Somerville, MA 7) Tobie M. Cornejo, Washington, DC 8) John T. Mason, Dalton, MA 9) Eric W. Fish, Williamstown, MA 10) Courtney E. 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McKonly, musician, New York, NY 281) Paul L. Milesi, pianist, Washington, DC 282) Ray Franks, New York 283) Gregory Ryan, Brooklyn, NY 284) Mary-Shannon Martin, Univ. of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA 285) Steven Moore, Univ. of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA 286) Carl A. Beshara, Seattle, Washington 287) Gerald L. Carlson, Stanwood, Washington 288) David I. Rosen, Seattle, WA 289) Julie M. Greiner, Kalispell, MT 290) Donald H. Kern, Helena, MT 291) Pamela M. Lemelin, Great Falls, MT 292) Sandra Toigo, Missoula, MT 293) Beth Judy, missoula, mt 294) Rob Rushin, Atlanta, GA 295) Judy Rushin, Atlanta, GA 296 Frank Laurino, Alchemedia North, Portsmouth, NH (alchemy@alchemynorth.com) 297 Denise Dixon, Alchemedia North, Portsmouth, NH (alchemy@alchemynorth.com) 298 steve Mays, Atlanta, GA 299) George Price, Roswell GA 300) Barbara Warren, Roswell GA 301) Charlie Hodgson, Woodstock, GA ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- Charlie -- 10 is a Dark Blue 7 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 05:49:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA24182 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:49:36 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:49:36 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 05:49:33 1997 Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA23943 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:49:31 -0700 Received: by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA09320; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:49:00 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 08:42:23 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428124222_515664.456256_FHA34-7@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 18 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 NPR/PBS Funding Petition Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA08165; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:42:54 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA10344; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704281239.IAA005.57@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: "Charlie Hodgson" Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 08:37:40 -0400 To: Freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: NPR/PBS Funding Petition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.24 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"NS4oQ3.0.WX2.Ih9Pp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is for anyone who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes. A petition follows. If you sign, please forward on to others (not back to me). If not, please don't kill it -- send it to the email address listed here: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu PBS, NPR (National Public Radio), and the arts are facing major cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to reduce spending costs and streamline their services, some government officials believe that the funding currently going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something which is seen as "unworthwhile". Currently, taxes from the general public for PBS equal $1.12 per person per year, and the National Endowment for the Arts equals $.64 a year in total. A January 1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that 76% of Americans wish to keep funding for PBS, third only to national defense and law enforcement as the most valuable programs for federal funding. Each year, the Senate and House Appropriations committees each have 13 subcommittees with jurisdiction over many programs and agencies. Each subcommittee passes its own appropriation bill. The goal each year is to have each bill signed by the beginning of the fiscal year, which is October 1. The only way that our representatives can be aware of the base of support for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by making our voices heard. Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends if you believe in what we stand for. This list will be forwarded to the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, and Representative Newt Gingrich, who is the instigator of the action to cut funding to these worthwhile programs. If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th etc. signer of this petition, please forward a copy to wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu. If that address is inoperative, please send it to kubi7975@blue.univnorthco.edu. This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward this to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive. Thank you. 1) Elizabeth Weinert, student, University of Northern Colorado, Greeley, CO 2) Robert M. Penn, San Francisco, CA 3) Gregory S. Williamson, San Francisco, CA 4) Daniel C. Knightly, Austin, TX 5) Andrew H. Knightly, Los Angeles, CA 6) Aaron C. Yeater, Somerville, MA 7) Tobie M. Cornejo, Washington, DC 8) John T. Mason, Dalton, MA 9) Eric W. Fish, Williamstown, MA 10) Courtney E. Estill, Hamilton College, NY 11) Vanessa MooreNorthfield, MN 12) Lynne Raschke, Haverford College, PA (originally Minnesota) 13) Deborah Bielak, Haverford, PA 14) Morgan Lloyd, Haverford, PA 19041 15) Galen Lloyd, Goucher College, MD 16) Brian Eastwood, University of Vermont, VT 17) Elif Batuman, Harvard University, MA 18) Kohar Jones, Yale University, CT 19) Claudia Brittenham, Yale University, CT 20) Alexandra Block, Yale University, CT 21) Susanna Chu, Yale University, CT 22) Michelle Chen, Harvard University, MA 23) Jessica Hammer, Harvard University, MA 24) Ann Pettigrew, Haverford College, PA 25) Kirstin Knox, Swarthmore College, PA 26) Jason Adler, Swarthmore College, PA 27) Daniel Gottlieb, Swarthmore College (but truly from Lawrence, KS) 28) Josh Feltman, Tufts University, MA 29) Louise Forrest, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MA 30) HongSup Park, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MA (originally from Portage, Wisconsin) 31) Ana Sandoval,Massachusetts Institute of Technology 32) Katherine Navarrete, Massachusetts Institute of Technology 33) Mandisa Washington, Massachusetts Institute of Technology 34) Stephen Balzac, San Francisco, CA 35) Howard Yermish, Los Angeles, CA 36) Danielle Yermish, Los Angeles, CA 37) David S. Lefkowitz, University of California - Los Angeles 38) Frank S. Albinder, San Francisco, CA 39) Read S. Sherman, Harvard Divinity School 40) Stephane Lemelin, Cambridge, MA 41) Thomas Ouellette, Cambidge, MA 42) Richard Russell, Cambridge, MA 43) Nella Wennberg, Jamaica Plain, MA 44) Eric Smith, Jamaica Plain, MA 45) Alex Graham, Boston, MA 46) Dean Wei, Chicago, IL 47) Luisita Frances, Chicago, IL 48) Roy Vella, Stanford, CA 49) Alan Hellawell, Mountain View, CA 50) Timothy A. Scott, San Francisco, CA 51) Albert M. Yeh, Mountain View, CA 52) Susan Yeh, Seattle, WA 53) Jonathan Payne, Seattle, WA 54) Cena Pohl, Seattle, WA 55) David Perk, Seattle, WA 56) Robert Srygley, Seattle WA 57) Katarzyna S. Kubzdela, Chicago, IL 58) Katy Human, Stanford, CA 59) Erica Fleishman, Reno, NV 60) C. Richard Tracy, Reno, NV 61) Kenneth E. Nussear, Reno, NV 62) Christopher R. Tracy, University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI 63) Kristin Komives, Carrboro, NC 64) Jennifer Goldman, Chapel Hill, NC 65) Darcy Leach, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 66) Van Luong, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 67) Aurora M. Sherman, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 68) Paul O. Stern, Seattle, WA 69) Erika Tapman, U. of Vermont College of Medicine 70) Opher Donchin, Urbana, IL 71) Prof. Pamela Cosman, University of California, San Diego 72)Ari Levitt, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 73) Nathan Martin, Berkeley, California 74) Lynn Price, Kensington, California 75) Leslie Shown, Kensiongton, CA 76) Mike Boals, Berkeley, CA 77) Wendy Boals, Berkeley, CA 78) Effie Westervelt, Tiburon, CA 79) Mary Burns, Taos, NM 80) Karen Page, New York, NY (karenapage@aol.com) 81) Gary Holleman, Bemidji, MN (holleman@chefnet.com) 82) Tim Rosa, Newton, MA (trosa@world.std.com) 83) Doug Hersh, Sherborn MA (hersh@ultranet.com) 84) Ruel Little, Somerville, MA (rlittle@ascensiontech.com) 85) Stefan Wennik, Andover, MA (SWennik@aol.com) 86) Melissa Walia, SF, CA (color@well.com) 87) Tracy Brown, SF, CA (tracy@nrh.com) 88) John T. Miller, SF, CA (johncom@dnai.com) 89) M. Todd Davis, SF, CA (todd_davis@gensler.com) 90) Michael Demetrios, SF, CA 91) J. Marc Perrin, NY, NY (mperrin@sbi.com) 92) Alyse Daberko, NY, NY (adaberko@sbi.com) 93) Jessica Guertin, Washington Univ. St. Louis(jg3@cec.wustl.edu) 94) Ellen Watson, San Francisco, CA 95) Bridgitt Arnold, Seattle, WA 96) Erica Yenni, Seattle, WA 97) Kerri Karvetski, Seattle, WA (70007.4401@compuserve.com) 98) Mark Butler, Seattle, WA 99) lazlow jones, long beach, ny lazlow@undernet.com 100) Laura Bykowski, NYC, NY laurab@gbcom.com 101) Amy Stettler, NYC, NY ZiolaS@AOL.com 102) F Ben Dana,Burlington, Vermont 103) Bill Dahill-Baue, Brattleboro, VT 104) S. Ryan Quick, Yale University, New Haven, CT 105) Jerry Anne Dickel, Yale University, New Haven, CT 106) Donald Beebe, Yale University, New Haven, CT 107) Stephanie Seery, School of Theology at Claremont, CA 108) Katherine A. Johnson, Baltimore, MD 109) Cynthia J. Halstead, Burke, VA 110) Ronald Northrip, Falls Church, VA ronnlee@clark.net 111) Jane Levandoski, University of Delaware, DE 112) Denise J. 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Perdue Atlanta, GA 118) David Cour, Washington D.C. 119) Katie Sergent, Washington D.C. 120) Nathan Sewell, Nashville, TN 121) Peter Eby, Nashville, TN 122) jeff taraday, seattle, WA 123) Julie Taraday, Seattle, WA 124) Stephanie Cooper, Seattle WA 125) Kailen Mooney, Seattle, WA 126) Dylan Clark, Univ. of WA, Anthropology, Seattle 98195 127) Daniel Simons, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 128) Kirsten Wild, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 129) Barbara Busetti, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 130) Leslie Macchia, Mountain View, CA lmacchia@ix.netcom.com) 131) Kris Wollenhaupt, San Jose, CA 132) Ann Bowers, Palo Alto, CA 133) Sue Tysko, Palo Alto, CA 134) Liza Schmeltz, San Jose, CA 135) Judith Schweikert, Palo Alto, CA 136) Joan Wylie, Palo Alto, CA 137) Marcia Pugsley, Palo Alto, CA 138) Daryl Davis, Palo Alto, CA 139) Amy Gerstein, San Francisco, CA 140) Christian Holden, San Francisco, CA 141) Stephen Divenere, San Francisco, CA 142) Karen Yetman, San Francisco, CA (kyetman@nelson.corp.gonelson.corp) 143) Christine D'Elia, San Francisco, CA 144) Rachel Bredemeier, Cambridge, MA 145) Karin Horlbeck, Cambridge, MA 146) Mark Bourne, Cambridge, MA (MarkB@cmbinfo.com) 147) NormSlocum,Weymouth, MA (SLOCUM@XENSEI.COM) 148) Carol Hughes, Boulder, CO (cehughes@lucent.com) 149) Susan Hagg, San Francisco,CA(shagg@coldwellbanker.com) 150) Dante Landucci, Bethesda, MD (Dante_Landucci@NIH.com) 151) Ann Dannenberg Rosen, Newton, MA 152) Elena Conti, Cambridge, MA 153) Brent Richter, Rowley Ma 154) Libby Jones, Rowley, MA 155) Kitkoon Chan, Pleasanton CA 156) Dennis Crayon, Boston, MA 157) Claude R Labbe, Boston, MA 158) Jeffrey M. Klapes, Lynnfield, MA 159) David E. Knudsen, Somerville, MA 160) Chris Ann Matteo, New York, NY 161) Scott G. Williams, Austin, Texas 162) Linda Wiencken Williams, Austin, Texas 163) Lucinda Martin, Florence, TX 164) Karen E. LeFevre, Austin, Texas 165) David E. Soileau, Austin, Texas (cajundave@aol.com) 166) Kirk P. White, RN, MSN, Austin, TX 167) Lisa Rogers, Austin, TX (oyalisa.@aol.com) 168) Shelley Brown, Denver, CO (lbrown@aol.com) 169) Deborah Chandler, Loveland, CO (deborahwf@aol.com) 170) Linda Temple, Oklahoma City, OK (lgtemple@aol.com) 171) Tom Temple, Oklahoma City, OK (lgtemple@aol.com) 172) Gage Evans, Denver, CO (gevans@carl.org) 173) Kara M. Van Horn, Denver, CO (karav@ihs.com) 174) Carmelia Dyer, Boulder, CO (cdyer@ball.com) 175) Douglas Goldman, Boulder, CO (dgoldman@ball.com) 176) Eugenie Georgas, Boulder, CO (ggeorgas@ball.com) 177) Michael Birdsong, Boulder, CO (mbirdson@ball.com) 178) Todd Arbetter, Boulder, CO (arbetter@spam.colorado.edu) 179) Marika Holland,Boulder, CO (hollandm@orbit.colorado.edu) 180) Adriene Hughes, Brighton, MA 181) Andrew Myerson, Brighton, MA 182) Lucila De Alejandro, San Diego, CA 183) Robin Taylor, San Diego CA 184) Shelly Diaz, NYC, NY 185) Beth Davidson, Incline Village, NV 186) Jon Paul Davidson, Incline Village, NV 187) Kate Glanz, Durham, NH 188) Filson Glanz, Durham, NH 189) Dehan Glanz, San Francisco, CA 190) Justine Reese, San Francisco, CA 191) Carl Bettag, San Francisco, CA 192) Eugenia Lean, Los Angeles, CA 193) Nicole Huang, Berkeley, CA 194) George Krompacky, Yale University, CT 195) Peter Carroll, Yale University, New Haven, CT 196) James Carter, New Haven, CT 197) Eagle Glassheim, Columbia University, New York City 198) David S.Frey, Columbia University, New York City 199) Ellen B. Umland, Bay Village, OH 200) Susanna D. Kopchains, Hawthorne, NJ 201) Mark Margaretten, Denver, CO 202) Jon L. Leland, Mill Valley, CA 203) Steve Blumenthal, San Francisco, CA 204) Paula Mantel, Honolulu, HI 205) Gaile Sickel, Honolulu, HI 206) Robert Wolfson, Fairfax, CA 207) Shams Wm. Kairys, Oakland, CA 208) Donald Halley, New Lebanon, NY 209) David Iman Adler, New Lebanon, NY 210) Robert Barris, Highland Park, 211) Janet Karpus, Kalamazoo, MI 212) Terry Macak, Kalamazoo, MI 213) Lynne Aspnes, Ann Arbor MI 214) Lorna Haywood, U of M Ann Arbor MI 215) Robert Debbaut, Salt Lake City, UT 216) Kaye Ramsey, Salt Lake City, UT 217) Timothy Jones, U of T San Antonio TX 218) Eugene Dowdy, UTSA, San Antonio, TX 219) Lawrence Stomberg, Truman State University, Kirksville, MO 220) Lisa Stomberg, Colorado School of Mines, CO 221) Paula Lynch, Laurel Springs, NJ 222) Cara Kendric, Philadelphia, PA 223) Deborah Conger Hughes, University of Washington, Seattle 224) Dean Heerwagen, Univ. of Washington, Seattle 225) Mark Clayton, College Station, TX 226) Mardelle Shepley, Bryan, TX 227) Mike Blair Bryan Tx (mcblair@myriad.net) 228) David Lucey, Oakland, CA 229) Ted Rallis Davis CA. (ted@ucdavis.edu) 230) Leigh Ann Giles, Davis CA (lagiles@ucdavis.edu) 231) Kamala Crompton, Sebastopol CA (kscrompton@ucdavis.edu) 232) Patrick Kelly 233) Alan J. Hiller (hiller@cooper.cpmc.org) 234) Mitchell D.Klein (MrProp@aol.com) 235) Nicholas Wulfekuhle 236) Andrew Downes 237) Kelly Bowers, Washington DC 238) Thomas Unger, Alexandria, VA 239) Dwight Gibbs, Alexandria, VA (dwightg@fool.com) 240) Selena Maranjian, Alexandria, VA (selenam@fool.com) 241) Lynnette A. Simon, Cambridge, MA (lasimon@fas.harvard.edu) 242) Susan Martin, Acton, MA(suemart@tiac.net) 243) Kenneth Lord, West Hempstead, NY (lord@calvin.cs.qc.edu) 244) Christopher Vickery, Holliswood, NY (vickery@babbage.cs.qc.edu) 245) Christopher Winters, Stamford,CT (Abudu@Juno.com) 246) Paul McIsaac, New York City (paulmci@aol.com) 247) John Douglas, Charlotte, VT (jdouglas@together.net) 248) Barre Phillips (73314.2351@compuserve.com) 249) Margot Phillips (margotp@igc.apc.org) 250) Bill Smith, jCoda Magazine, BC, Canada (codawest@mars.ark.com) 251) Matthew Sperry, musician, seattle, WA (matts@scn.org) 252) David Baulch, Western WA U, Bellingham, WA (dbaulch@cc.wwu.edu) 253) Janet Baulch, UC Davis, Davis, CA (jebaulch@ucdavis,edu) 254) Albert Davalos, San Antonio, Tx (Davalos@uthsca.edu) 255) Niels Swinkels, San Francisco 256) Margie O'Driscoll, San Francisco 257 Jason Tannen, Oakland 258) Darcie Fohrman, Monterey 259) John Chiodo, San Francisco 260) Minda Borun, Wynnewood, PA 261) Janet Johnson, Birmingham, MI 262) Larry Hutchinson, Farmington, MI 263) Crystal White, Farmington Hills, MI 264) Mary Iorio, Beverly Hills, MI 265) Katherine McCoy 266) Mary Lou Kroh 267) Todd Germann, Chicago, IL 268) rodney louie, chicago, il 269) Gene Anderson, Los Angeles, CA 270) Guido Frenzel, Los Angeles, CA 271) Mary Siceloff, Los Angeles, CA 272) Michael Patton, Napa, California 273) Cheryl Rosenthal, San Francisco, CA 274) Mia Malm, New York, NY 275) Carl Hermanns, San Diego, CA 276) Steve Grumette, Oak View, CA 277) Peter Troxell, Felton, CA 278) Joseph Spencer, Berkeley, CA 279) Roland Kato, Los Angeles, CA 280) Curtis J. McKonly, musician, New York, NY 281) Paul L. Milesi, pianist, Washington, DC 282) Ray Franks, New York 283) Gregory Ryan, Brooklyn, NY 284) Mary-Shannon Martin, Univ. of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA 285) Steven Moore, Univ. of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA 286) Carl A. Beshara, Seattle, Washington 287) Gerald L. Carlson, Stanwood, Washington 288) David I. Rosen, Seattle, WA 289) Julie M. Greiner, Kalispell, MT 290) Donald H. Kern, Helena, MT 291) Pamela M. Lemelin, Great Falls, MT 292) Sandra Toigo, Missoula, MT 293) Beth Judy, missoula, mt 294) Rob Rushin, Atlanta, GA 295) Judy Rushin, Atlanta, GA 296 Frank Laurino, Alchemedia North, Portsmouth, NH (alchemy@alchemynorth.com) 297 Denise Dixon, Alchemedia North, Portsmouth, NH (alchemy@alchemynorth.com) 298 steve Mays, Atlanta, GA 299) George Price, Roswell GA 300) Barbara Warren, Roswell GA 301) Charlie Hodgson, Woodstock, GA ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- Charlie -- 10 is a Dark Blue 7 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 08:00:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA10458; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:00:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:00:30 -0700 From: M2Milly@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970428110007_-1232728799@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Q.Physics + Time Resent-Message-ID: <"TQwCX1.0.GZ2.DkBPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Greetings Shannon:) In a message dated 97-04-27, you write: << Something that I have always believed in is that a "time machine" is constructable, but not feasible. Infact, sometimes it even hits me that one may have already been planned. Scientifically, it it perfect, but there is just not enough $ to go ahead with construction. Also, I might have figured some "Area 51 Complex" in to this path of thought without even knowing it. Perhaps there HAS been a machine constructed, but the general public doesn't know about it. Mass hysteria would result if the fact was made public that people had been sent into the past or future and not returned....learned about society's demise...went clinically insane after being "transported"...ect. Any ideas on this??? Shannon>> As a physicist and a futu rist, I try to keep an open mind towards many phenomena which may be termed wacko, woo-woo, or worse. I try to glean, evaluate, sift, piecmeal, sort ANY AND ALL that comes into my mailboxes HOPING for some type of pattern to emerge. Amazingly corroborations from independent places DO OCCUR... after much MUCH looking of course . Below are two puzzle pieces I found in the detritus of my mail today. Both are on time travel from radically altered viewpoints -- I COLLECT and try not to prejudge until I have most of the puzzle picture in front of me. PIECE NUMBER ONE -- NOT MY WORDS ---- DISCERN ---- USE YOUR BEST JUDGMENT---- DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS Time Travel Permits Altering Consciousness of a Race: We have been told that the Greys "have been here for thousands of years." According to the Andromedans, however, the Greys got here in 1931. Because of their ability to time travel, it looks like they have been here thousands of years - they can go backwards in time. If you can go backwards in time you can literally alter the consciousness of any race. You can alter any event. That's exactly what they have done. They are not the only ones who have done this. There is also a group from Sirius B who have also done this. It took me a long time to understand why it was that they wanted to do this. The bottom line is that they wanted to control us. We have things that they want. We have the benefit of having been on 11th density, which means that we have covered a very large area of spiritual evolvement - which is why our range of emotion is so large. They want that information. Not only that, but with the new frequency coming in and third density beginning to implode on itself, the Greys are trying to save their race. According to Morenae, there are only 2000 real Greys left -- all the rest are clones - organic robots. They do not carry a spiritual essence. Folks, we are talking about a technology thousands of years ahead of where we are now. The Abduction of Humans: The reason the Greys are doing so many abductions is (1) for genetics. They are trying to bring the races together. They are creating hybrids, most of which are females. There are very few male hybrids. The problem is that they have a hard time keeping them alive because spirit will not attach to it. The life force will not attach to it. So, they are abducting the human mothers and children and peeling off the vital body, containing the energy and feeding it to the hybrids of the same lineage. They are trying to create a soul, and they just can't do it, and they are desperate, which is why there are so many weird things happening. This is just one of the things that are happening. There is a huge Grey complex conspiracy behind it. Why we agreed to do this I haven't a clue. Alex Collier, Andromedans: http://www.trufax.org/collier/androm.html ************** PIECE NUMBER TWO-- NOT MY WORDS DISCERN AND USE YOUR BEST JUDGMENT FARSIGHT = REMOTE VIEWING EXPERIMENTS If you want to view the pictures that they have put in here, that describe what they saw, you will have to go to the Farsight site; http://www.farsight.org/et/Gateway/p3.html The Interdimensional Portal In Phase 4, the viewer perceived an object and technology. He declared there are beings "waiting from a distance." These beings are "observing a device that is in the second stage of activity." The viewer deducted a radio transmitter. He perceived that there was a commonality to these diverse beings, an "allegiance to a central organization." There are "devices spread out around the target site and beyond. Beings are paying attention to their instructions, waiting for a proper calibration sequence." The viewer also perceived a dry planet near the target object. He perceive the idea of a "linking vortex." Moving to the center of the target area, the viewer perceived a "penetrating vortex." He declared that "there are waves of concentration and dispersion at the target time." He perceived authority, directed energy, and groups of beings directing a situation with many different types of participants. The viewer also perceived vehicles, machines, advanced nano-technology, and stated that "there is a subspace aspect to this target." "It goes beyond normal dimensions." The viewer then perceived a subspace wormhole that is transcending space and time, spreading out. Moving to Phase 5, the viewer then drew a sketch of the target object that he was perceiving as a wormhole. (See sketch 1 website.) Continuing in Phase 5, he perceived the ideas of preparation, transformation, and synchronization in Earth time. There are obstacles preventing the condensation of subspace materials, a holding pattern. This is a galactic experience, a planned effort with separate entities coming together, going beyond historical differences. The viewer then constructed a time line that placed the next significant event involving the target object in the first half of 1996. When probing the connection between the target object and the next significant event, the viewer perceived a fireball, a subspace vortex, and the concept of splitting. He also perceived energy waves coming towards Earth. There was a penetrating single-minded intelligence associated with this event, and he deducted "Greys." He perceived the concept of contact, had the guided deduction of culmination, and deducted both the U.S. government and President Clinton. He perceived vehicles and tumultuous emotions. He also perceived movement, patterns, clouds, signals, and the concepts of activation and waking up. He stated that this is "an event which is very energetic, like a concentrated signal penetrating the common mindset. He perceived a physical light, and the subspace sense of bursting. He also perceived that the event will be associated with the replacing of some authority figures. The viewer stated, "Many dimensional levels of space and time are rearranged from this event." Farsight Professional 3: The Interdimensional Portal Target cue: Greys Interdimensional Portal near Earth Data: Type 4 (single-blind, the viewer is not told the target until after the completion of the session) Date of session: 1 December 1996 ***************** My own opinions on these matters are a little more complex.... There is a great deal of discussion material here ... if anyone is interested.... MjMichael in Houston FutrConect Conect with the Future From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 11:10:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA24733; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:09:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:09:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3364B29E.4572@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:22:22 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: JL Naudin's variable inductor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MzYQT.0.M26.iVEPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Greg, Jean-Louis and all.. Greg Watson wrote in a letter to Jean-Louis and I: > From what I can see, your are altering the operation point of the square > ferrite on its B/H curve by introducing a magnetic bias from the DC > flowing in the control coil. Absolutely right. > There is still a two way coupling between the two coils. Iron or > ferrite will still cross couple. Just because the B/H curves are > different doesn't mean they will not exchange flux. Correct again. Jean-Lous was not accurate when he said that the two coils didn't couple flux. I was aware they would. As I said in another post, it was expediency that led me to try it. I did not think it would work myself. > Varying the DC current flowing in the control coil will alter the > inductance of the output coil as you suggest. However, the amount of > inductance change will vary as the output coil current varies as this > current will alter flux flowing in the total circuit (including the > control circuit). This alteration will cause the control current to > alter. I believe if you monitored control circuit current, you would > see this current variation. I agree. I was HOPING that there might be some small effect from LOCAL permeability differences under the two coils. I seem to remember asking Jean-Louis to take a control current reading under different loading conditions. Jean-Louis, do you have one? > > Your setup is just a case of a dual E core tfx with isolated coils wound > on the outer legs, with one supplying a magnetic bias. I haven't seen the picture (my email program is screwy) but I can imagine it. I know that the center output coil is wound around a ferrite. I presume the control windings are such that EMF's cancel, as in a magamp. Greg, Every point is correct. At higher power levels, the loading of the primary through permeability and flux coupling will become obvious. But that doesn't alter the fact that at the power levels we're on now, there seems to be very little change in the control voltage over changes in load. (We'll have to see what the control current is.) There may be another reason why his control voltage is so unperturbed by the output changes. This has to do with the reversibility of the system. Because it does not have an input parallel capacitor, Jean-Louis's inductor at these power levels is a simulation of a nonreciprocal system, a system that only works one way, where effects have no effect on causes. If you put a varying control voltage into the outputs instead of the inputs, you will NOT see a sine wave appear at the inputs, because there is no resonant capacitor. Thus, although the flux may well vary equally in both cores the electrical effects are not the same. If Jean-Louis were to put a capacitor across the inputs, he would see a much larger variation in input current due to the parametric voltage wave superimposed on the control voltage. By instinctively using a high-impedance driver input rather than a resonant circuit he made the device work. What we're looking for here is a machine that works, not one that proves a philosophical point. It doesn't have to work PERFECTLY to work. Anyway, we have just begun to dig into out bag of tricks :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 12:12:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA04985 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:12:05 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:12:05 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 12:11:59 1997 Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA04719 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:11:58 -0700 Received: by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA14852; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:11:27 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 15:03:06 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428190305_515664.456256_IHM37-22@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 38 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 JL Naudin's variable inductor Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA09656; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:13:23 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA24732; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:09:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:09:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3364B29E.4572@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:22:22 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: JL Naudin's variable inductor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MzYQT.0.M26.iVEPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Greg, Jean-Louis and all.. Greg Watson wrote in a letter to Jean-Louis and I: > From what I can see, your are altering the operation point of the square > ferrite on its B/H curve by introducing a magnetic bias from the DC > flowing in the control coil. Absolutely right. > There is still a two way coupling between the two coils. Iron or > ferrite will still cross couple. Just because the B/H curves are > different doesn't mean they will not exchange flux. Correct again. Jean-Lous was not accurate when he said that the two coils didn't couple flux. I was aware they would. As I said in another post, it was expediency that led me to try it. I did not think it would work myself. > Varying the DC current flowing in the control coil will alter the > inductance of the output coil as you suggest. However, the amount of > inductance change will vary as the output coil current varies as this > current will alter flux flowing in the total circuit (including the > control circuit). This alteration will cause the control current to > alter. I believe if you monitored control circuit current, you would > see this current variation. I agree. I was HOPING that there might be some small effect from LOCAL permeability differences under the two coils. I seem to remember asking Jean-Louis to take a control current reading under different loading conditions. Jean-Louis, do you have one? > > Your setup is just a case of a dual E core tfx with isolated coils wound > on the outer legs, with one supplying a magnetic bias. I haven't seen the picture (my email program is screwy) but I can imagine it. I know that the center output coil is wound around a ferrite. I presume the control windings are such that EMF's cancel, as in a magamp. Greg, Every point is correct. At higher power levels, the loading of the primary through permeability and flux coupling will become obvious. But that doesn't alter the fact that at the power levels we're on now, there seems to be very little change in the control voltage over changes in load. (We'll have to see what the control current is.) There may be another reason why his control voltage is so unperturbed by the output changes. This has to do with the reversibility of the system. Because it does not have an input parallel capacitor, Jean-Louis's inductor at these power levels is a simulation of a nonreciprocal system, a system that only works one way, where effects have no effect on causes. If you put a varying control voltage into the outputs instead of the inputs, you will NOT see a sine wave appear at the inputs, because there is no resonant capacitor. Thus, although the flux may well vary equally in both cores the electrical effects are not the same. If Jean-Louis were to put a capacitor across the inputs, he would see a much larger variation in input current due to the parametric voltage wave superimposed on the control voltage. By instinctively using a high-impedance driver input rather than a resonant circuit he made the device work. What we're looking for here is a machine that works, not one that proves a philosophical point. It doesn't have to work PERFECTLY to work. Anyway, we have just begun to dig into out bag of tricks :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 12:36:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA07935; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:36:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:36:29 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970428153611_974807182@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Resent-Message-ID: <"VjPUt1.0.ux1.ymFPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sounds ok except the product .5LI^2 will decrease because work was done by the attraction of the ferromagnetic material into the field of the superconducting current. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 15:05:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04485; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970428150355.00a5328c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:03:56 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YAgD4.0.-51.ByHPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Prove it by any other way than quoting conservation of energy principle. At 03:36 PM 4/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >Sounds ok except the product .5LI^2 will decrease because work was done by >the attraction of the ferromagnetic material into the field of the >superconducting current. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 15:29:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA32301; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:28:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:28:55 -0700 Message-ID: <33652490.4869@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:58:32 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: JL Naudin's variable inductor References: <3364B29E.4572@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3WVzh.0.Yu7.cIIPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fred B. Epps wrote: > > Hi Greg, Jean-Louis and all.. > > Greg Watson wrote in a letter to Jean-Louis and I: > > > From what I can see, your are altering the operation point of the square > > ferrite on its B/H curve by introducing a magnetic bias from the DC > > flowing in the control coil. > > Absolutely right. > > > There is still a two way coupling between the two coils. Iron or > > ferrite will still cross couple. Just because the B/H curves are > > different doesn't mean they will not exchange flux. > > Correct again. Jean-Lous was not accurate when he said that the two > coils didn't couple flux. I was aware they would. As I said in another > post, it was expediency that led me to try it. I did not think it would > work myself. > > > Varying the DC current flowing in the control coil will alter the > > inductance of the output coil as you suggest. However, the amount of > > inductance change will vary as the output coil current varies as this > > current will alter flux flowing in the total circuit (including the > > control circuit). This alteration will cause the control current to > > alter. I believe if you monitored control circuit current, you would > > see this current variation. > > I agree. I was HOPING that there might be some small effect from LOCAL > permeability differences under the two coils. I seem to remember asking > Jean-Louis to take a control current reading under different loading > conditions. Jean-Louis, do you have one? > > > > Your setup is just a case of a dual E core tfx with isolated coils wound > > on the outer legs, with one supplying a magnetic bias. > > I haven't seen the picture (my email program is screwy) but I can > imagine it. I know that the center output coil is wound around a > ferrite. I presume the control windings are such that EMF's cancel, as > in a magamp. > > Greg, Every point is correct. At higher power levels, the loading of > the primary through permeability and flux coupling will become obvious. > But that doesn't alter the fact that at the power levels we're on now, > there seems to be very little change in the control voltage over changes > in load. (We'll have to see what the control current is.) Iis not my point to pick this idea to pieces. But we must jave a correct understanding of what is going on if we wish to look for what is unusual. > There may be another reason why his control voltage is so unperturbed > by the output changes. This has to do with the reversibility of the > system. Because it does not have an input parallel capacitor, > Jean-Louis's inductor at these power levels is a simulation of a > nonreciprocal system, a system that only works one way, where effects > have no effect on causes. It is the belief that this is a one way system, that needs to be carefully thought through. > If you put a varying control voltage into the > outputs instead of the inputs, you will NOT see a sine wave appear at > the inputs, because there is no resonant capacitor. Thus, although the > flux may well vary equally in both cores the electrical effects are not > the same. If Jean-Louis were to put a capacitor across the inputs, he > would see a much larger variation in input current due to the parametric > voltage wave superimposed on the control voltage. By instinctively using > a high-impedance driver input rather than a resonant circuit he made the > device work. I think you need to see the images Jean-Louis sent me. It may not be what you think. The config may need to be altered. His setup is basically a dual "E" core with coils wound on each of the two outer legs. One coil has a pulsed DC control voltage applied and the other coil is used as a secondary resonate output. There is no primary or dual opposing control coils. > What we're looking for here is a machine that works, not one that > proves a philosophical point. It doesn't have to work PERFECTLY to work. > Anyway, we have just begun to dig into out bag of tricks :-) > Fred Hi Fred, That's what we? all are looking for. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 15:34:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA09267; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3365253A.5BED@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:01:22 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 0.5LI^2 or not ? References: <970428153611_974807182@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Tced1.0.hG2.VNIPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keasy@aol.com wrote: > > Sounds ok except the product .5LI^2 will decrease because work was done by > the attraction of the ferromagnetic material into the field of the > superconducting current. Hi Keasy, How? The attracted ferrite's aligned domains increase the coil's stored energy. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 15:35:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA00949; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:35:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:35:32 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:35:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Greg Watson cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device In-Reply-To: <33640F9E.1F0D@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KAQOk1.0.WE.nOIPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > If spun by hand and some non moving external components are removed, the > unit takes approx 25-30 seconds to stop rotation. > > If I then insert into place the external non moving components and spin > up the rotary assy as before, the unit will spin for 80-90 seconds. > > As before, no coils, electricity or other conventional energy sources > are involved. > Greg: while it might take a moment or two to add, I HIGHLY Recommend the addition of a "BRAKEing System" to your device... optimistically, so when it does 'work' or 'take-off'... you will have a way to control the run-a-way. Good Luck... we enjoy the posting updates.. ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 15:40:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA10434 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:40:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@compuserve.com Mon Apr 28 15:39:45 1997 Received: from arl-img-10.compuserve.com (arl-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.217.140]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA10206 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA28019; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:34:03 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 13:23:52 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428172351_515664.456256_IHJ2-36@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA09241; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:25:32 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04484; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970428150355.00a5328c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:03:56 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YAgD4.0.-51.ByHPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Prove it by any other way than quoting conservation of energy principle. At 03:36 PM 4/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >Sounds ok except the product .5LI^2 will decrease because work was done by >the attraction of the ferromagnetic material into the field of the >superconducting current. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 15:51:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA12594 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 15:50:41 1997 Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com (hil-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.177.133]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA12356 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA13537; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:48:37 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 18:45:08 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970428224507_515664.456256_IHO41-39@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 39 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Simple OU Device Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA00181; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:44:32 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA00948; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:35:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:35:32 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:35:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Greg Watson cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device In-Reply-To: <33640F9E.1F0D@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KAQOk1.0.WE.nOIPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > If spun by hand and some non moving external components are removed, the > unit takes approx 25-30 seconds to stop rotation. > > If I then insert into place the external non moving components and spin > up the rotary assy as before, the unit will spin for 80-90 seconds. > > As before, no coils, electricity or other conventional energy sources > are involved. > Greg: while it might take a moment or two to add, I HIGHLY Recommend the addition of a "BRAKEing System" to your device... optimistically, so when it does 'work' or 'take-off'... you will have a way to control the run-a-way. Good Luck... we enjoy the posting updates.. ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 16:13:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA09788 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:13:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:13:33 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 16:13:06 1997 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA09486 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:13:03 -0700 Received: from localhost by relay3.UU.NET with internal (peer crosschecked as: localhost) id QQcnhc14569; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:13:17 -0400 (EDT) From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="QQcnhc14569.862269197/relay3.UU.NET" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request This is a MIME-encapsulated message --QQcnhc14569.862269197/relay3.UU.NET The original message was received at Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:13:03 -0400 (EDT) from mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to cornellc.cit.cornell.edu.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Host 'BGEARN.BITNET' Unknown 550 ... User unknown --QQcnhc14569.862269197/relay3.UU.NET Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; relay3.UU.NET Received-From-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; cornellc.cit.cornell.edu Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 Host 'BGEARN.BITNET' Unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:13:17 -0400 (EDT) --QQcnhc14569.862269197/relay3.UU.NET Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: Received: from mx1.eskimo.com by relay3.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) id QQcnhc14557; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:13:03 -0400 (EDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA32377; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:29:08 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:29:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199704282229.PAA32377@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #152 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/152 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --QQcnhc14569.862269197/relay3.UU.NET-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 16:53:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA23509; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336539A6.CA6@gorge.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:58:31 -0700 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NPR/PBS Funding Petition References: <199704282229.PAA32377@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WeOMn2.0.Dl5.jXJPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mr. Hodgson: I am going to try to be kind, and non-inflammatory in this response, but it will be difficult. I support, more fully than you do, the right of you, and people who hold to your political/social positions, to have your own radio/TV network. However, you seem to feel that I, and others who hold differing opinions, should pay for it. Although I applaud the few fine educational programs which CAN be found on NPR/PBS, I am offended by the political amnd moral propaganda which permeates the remainder. You may, and should, try to get people to donate to NPR/PBS. But, it is completely wrong to force anyone else to pay for it. It is also wrong to pollute a site which has a specific agenda with an irrelevant list of names. End of Rant. Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 17:30:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA32196; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:30:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:30:30 -0700 Message-Id: <33650BCF.27A1@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:42:55 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: JLNaudin's variable inductor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1g8Dv3.0.zs7.b4KPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Greg, Jean-Louis, and others, I said: > > Jean-Louis's inductor at these power levels is a simulation of a > > nonreciprocal system, a system that only works one way, where effects > > have no effect on causes. Greg said: > It is the belief that this is a one way system, that needs to be > carefully thought through. I said: > > > If you put a varying control voltage into the > > outputs instead of the inputs, you will NOT see a sine wave appear at > > the inputs, because there is no resonant capacitor. Thus, although the > > flux may well vary equally in both cores the electrical effects are not > > the same. I was careful to say that this Variable inductor is a SIMULATION of a one-way device. Nonetheless, it generates power. This differential between load and output MAY be due to the nonresonant nature of the input. I have been reading journal articles that are changing my thinking. They prove the existence of ideal one-way systems and describe real, lossy, one-way systems. See my post on the Hendershot Device for details and refs. The parametric transformer cannot be a one-way transformer. It can simulate one within a certain load range. According to the papers, generally the desired design is an electromagnetic or electrodynamic transducer mechanically attached to a varying electrostatic or piezoelectric transducer. This is obviously a lossy device, but I have tried to show in my Hendershot post that a one-way device like this attached to a regenerative tank circuit might well be overunity, because it breaks the law of action and reaction. I recognize this is speculative but it bears putting to the test. I will write up my idea to test after I have finished this post. Yes, I think you can say "we", Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 17:42:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA02250 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:42:18 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:42:18 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 17:42:13 1997 Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA01983 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:42:09 -0700 Received: by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA21558; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:41:35 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 20:36:46 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429003645_515664.456256_GHQ33-42@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 40 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: JLNaudin's variable inductor Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA07301; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:35:58 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA32195; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:30:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:30:30 -0700 Message-Id: <33650BCF.27A1@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:42:55 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: JLNaudin's variable inductor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1g8Dv3.0.zs7.b4KPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Greg, Jean-Louis, and others, I said: > > Jean-Louis's inductor at these power levels is a simulation of a > > nonreciprocal system, a system that only works one way, where effects > > have no effect on causes. Greg said: > It is the belief that this is a one way system, that needs to be > carefully thought through. I said: > > > If you put a varying control voltage into the > > outputs instead of the inputs, you will NOT see a sine wave appear at > > the inputs, because there is no resonant capacitor. Thus, although the > > flux may well vary equally in both cores the electrical effects are not > > the same. I was careful to say that this Variable inductor is a SIMULATION of a one-way device. Nonetheless, it generates power. This differential between load and output MAY be due to the nonresonant nature of the input. I have been reading journal articles that are changing my thinking. They prove the existence of ideal one-way systems and describe real, lossy, one-way systems. See my post on the Hendershot Device for details and refs. The parametric transformer cannot be a one-way transformer. It can simulate one within a certain load range. According to the papers, generally the desired design is an electromagnetic or electrodynamic transducer mechanically attached to a varying electrostatic or piezoelectric transducer. This is obviously a lossy device, but I have tried to show in my Hendershot post that a one-way device like this attached to a regenerative tank circuit might well be overunity, because it breaks the law of action and reaction. I recognize this is speculative but it bears putting to the test. I will write up my idea to test after I have finished this post. Yes, I think you can say "we", Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 19:30:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA20931; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3364AAEB.1521@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:49:32 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] References: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> <336418C4.54BF@microtronics.com.au> <33646AA1.624B@triode.net.au> <33643B1B.321B@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oNp0f2.0.y65.VqLPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Greg Watson wrote: > Hold supply voltage constant and supply current DROPS as the core is > attracted. > > Hold supply current constant and the supply voltage DROPS as the core is > attracted. > > Don't believe me? TRY it yourself! Curious, Greg. I am going by the formula V = LdI/dt + IdL/dt. The first partial will be zero under constant current conditions, which reduces the formula to V = IdL/dt which says the voltage across the inductor will increase as the rate of change of inductance which, in this case, will be positive because the rod is moving into the coil increasing the inductance. But you say the voltage across the inductor will DROP. Why? This formula says the overall loop voltage will have to increase, ie driving force within the constant current power supply will have to increase (or loop resistance decrease), in order to overcome the positive going EMF induced across the inductor to maintain constant current. Thus work is done within the power supply to maintain constant current. The actual work done is VxI where V is the driving voltaage within the power supply and I is the current plowing in the constant current loop. Correct? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 19:45:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA01577 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:45:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:45:27 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 19:45:13 1997 Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com (dub-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA01190 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:45:09 -0700 Received: by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA08974; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:44:37 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 22:36:30 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429023629_515664.456256_JHG64-18@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA05175; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:37:40 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA20930; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3364AAEB.1521@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:49:32 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] References: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> <336418C4.54BF@microtronics.com.au> <33646AA1.624B@triode.net.au> <33643B1B.321B@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oNp0f2.0.y65.VqLPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Greg Watson wrote: > Hold supply voltage constant and supply current DROPS as the core is > attracted. > > Hold supply current constant and the supply voltage DROPS as the core is > attracted. > > Don't believe me? TRY it yourself! Curious, Greg. I am going by the formula V = LdI/dt + IdL/dt. The first partial will be zero under constant current conditions, which reduces the formula to V = IdL/dt which says the voltage across the inductor will increase as the rate of change of inductance which, in this case, will be positive because the rod is moving into the coil increasing the inductance. But you say the voltage across the inductor will DROP. Why? This formula says the overall loop voltage will have to increase, ie driving force within the constant current power supply will have to increase (or loop resistance decrease), in order to overcome the positive going EMF induced across the inductor to maintain constant current. Thus work is done within the power supply to maintain constant current. The actual work done is VxI where V is the driving voltaage within the power supply and I is the current plowing in the constant current loop. Correct? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 20:42:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02795; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970428204201.00a58688@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:42:02 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dv86O.0.Wh.WuMPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have confirmed Greg's observation some time age experimentally. With 10ohm air core coil, 0.05ohm current sensing resistor and a constant voltage power supply, the voltage drop across the current sensing resistor indeed decreased markedly while a non-conductive ferrite core approached the coil. Note: the voltage across the current-sensing resistor represented the current flowing through the coil. I find the above to be as expected because the product [0.5LI^2] expressing the total electrical energy stored by the coil system will have to be equal before and after the approach of the ferrite core. Since the [L] is increased significantly upon the approach of the core, the [I] will have decrease accordingly to keep the [0.5LI^2] product constant (ie. [L] 10,000 increase ... [I] 100 decrease) This whole situation can be greatly simplified if you consider a closed coil WITHOUT a power supply, with zero resistance. An established current circulating through such coil will continue forever since there is no resistance to dissipate it as heat. Thus no unnecessary complications involving the balance of energy provided by an external power supply VERSUS the energy dissipated in the coil's resistance. The time factor also disappears and the rate of change dI/dt and dL/dt become IRRELEVANT in a closed coil with zero resistance. Regarding the constant voltage VS. constant current power supply, the issue is very simple: since the electric energy stored in the coil tends to be kept constant by the coil's inductance the product [EI] (a.k.a. VI) integrated over the coil's charge/discharge time will have to remain constant, thus [I] will have to decrease if the [E] is forcefully kept constant ***in order to compensate*** for coil's increased charge/discharge integration time, caused by increased [L] as a result of approaching ferrite core with high permeability. The situation where [E] is kept constant and [I] allowed to vary, is analogous. I dare to state that I expect the coil's stored electrical energy [0.5LI^2] be the same before and after the approach of the ferrite core. At 06:49 AM 4/28/97 -0700, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> Hold supply voltage constant and supply current DROPS as the core is >> attracted. >> >> Hold supply current constant and the supply voltage DROPS as the core is >> attracted. >> >> Don't believe me? TRY it yourself! > >Curious, Greg. > >I am going by the formula V = LdI/dt + IdL/dt. The first partial will be >zero under constant current conditions, which reduces the formula to V = >IdL/dt which says the voltage across the inductor will increase as the >rate of change of inductance which, in this case, will be positive >because the rod is moving into the coil increasing the inductance. But >you say the voltage across the inductor will DROP. Why? > >This formula says the overall loop voltage will have to increase, ie >driving force within the constant current power supply will have to >increase (or loop resistance decrease), in order to overcome the >positive going EMF induced across the inductor to maintain constant >current. Thus work is done within the power supply to maintain constant >current. The actual work done is VxI where V is the driving voltaage >within the power supply and I is the current plowing in the constant >current loop. > >Correct? > >Maxwell. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 21:04:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA15181 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:04:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:04:37 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 21:04:32 1997 Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com (hil-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.177.133]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA14930 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:04:25 -0700 Received: by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA03272; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 00:03:54 -0400 Old-Date: 28 Apr 97 23:44:10 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429034409_515664.456256_IHB37-32@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA21988; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 23:44:41 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02794; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970428204201.00a58688@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:42:02 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dv86O.0.Wh.WuMPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have confirmed Greg's observation some time age experimentally. With 10ohm air core coil, 0.05ohm current sensing resistor and a constant voltage power supply, the voltage drop across the current sensing resistor indeed decreased markedly while a non-conductive ferrite core approached the coil. Note: the voltage across the current-sensing resistor represented the current flowing through the coil. I find the above to be as expected because the product [0.5LI^2] expressing the total electrical energy stored by the coil system will have to be equal before and after the approach of the ferrite core. Since the [L] is increased significantly upon the approach of the core, the [I] will have decrease accordingly to keep the [0.5LI^2] product constant (ie. [L] 10,000 increase ... [I] 100 decrease) This whole situation can be greatly simplified if you consider a closed coil WITHOUT a power supply, with zero resistance. An established current circulating through such coil will continue forever since there is no resistance to dissipate it as heat. Thus no unnecessary complications involving the balance of energy provided by an external power supply VERSUS the energy dissipated in the coil's resistance. The time factor also disappears and the rate of change dI/dt and dL/dt become IRRELEVANT in a closed coil with zero resistance. Regarding the constant voltage VS. constant current power supply, the issue is very simple: since the electric energy stored in the coil tends to be kept constant by the coil's inductance the product [EI] (a.k.a. VI) integrated over the coil's charge/discharge time will have to remain constant, thus [I] will have to decrease if the [E] is forcefully kept constant ***in order to compensate*** for coil's increased charge/discharge integration time, caused by increased [L] as a result of approaching ferrite core with high permeability. The situation where [E] is kept constant and [I] allowed to vary, is analogous. I dare to state that I expect the coil's stored electrical energy [0.5LI^2] be the same before and after the approach of the ferrite core. At 06:49 AM 4/28/97 -0700, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> Hold supply voltage constant and supply current DROPS as the core is >> attracted. >> >> Hold supply current constant and the supply voltage DROPS as the core is >> attracted. >> >> Don't believe me? TRY it yourself! > >Curious, Greg. > >I am going by the formula V = LdI/dt + IdL/dt. The first partial will be >zero under constant current conditions, which reduces the formula to V = >IdL/dt which says the voltage across the inductor will increase as the >rate of change of inductance which, in this case, will be positive >because the rod is moving into the coil increasing the inductance. But >you say the voltage across the inductor will DROP. Why? > >This formula says the overall loop voltage will have to increase, ie >driving force within the constant current power supply will have to >increase (or loop resistance decrease), in order to overcome the >positive going EMF induced across the inductor to maintain constant >current. Thus work is done within the power supply to maintain constant >current. The actual work done is VxI where V is the driving voltaage >within the power supply and I is the current plowing in the constant >current loop. > >Correct? > >Maxwell. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 21:46:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20997; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:46:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:46:30 -0700 Message-Id: <33654796.6B83@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:57:58 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Energy-storing grounds and resistors? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5Q8fa3.0.-75.bqNPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi folks, This is one of those ideas that you would like to stop thinking about but it won't let go, no matter how naive it is. Watch folks while I show my ignorance :> When I was first learning about electricity I was shocked when I realized that the main thing that electrical machines do is throw away electricity. All of those resistors turning electrical energy into heat, and then when you're down it all goes into the ground, the biggest resistor of all. I started thinking, suppose all that electricity we're turning into heat could be stored and then used later? The voltage drop through a resistor would be preserved in some way to use again. Some crude, inefficient methods came to me. A large resistor could be converted into a small resistor and a lamp/photocell/battery assembly. The photocell assembly would appear to the main circuit as a resistor in the normal fashion, but it would store the extra energy (or a part of it). The same thing for heating elements and thermocouples etc. An uncharged battery could be put in parallel with a resistor, etc. For a constant frequency current like house current, you could use resonant traps to operate as low-power active resistors or as an electronic ground. Let's look at the structure of an electronic ground first. A ground must: 1) be at a lower potential than the rest of the circuit. 2) have low resistance to the flow of current. There may be other things a ground must have but I don't know them. (Remember I had trouble with the whole idea). I'm sure that there is some circuit that doesn't use a lot of power, has a very low input impedance, and is an effective storer of energy? A flywheel? According to my definition of a ground, a superconducting ring might work as such an energy storage ground. Obviously this is not very practical in suburbia, so I started thinking in terms of resonant circuits. Imagine that your grounding wire goes to an assembly consisting of many series resonators in parallel, so that the total resistance is very low. They are in two groups that are alternately switched in and out of the house current going to ground. When a resonator is part of the circuit it absorbs some of the energy, when it is switched out of the circuit the resonator is dumped into a load. The house current always sees a low-impedance termination that absorbs power like a ground, yet the energy is transferred to a battery pack or some other load. Is there even a grain of sense in my irritating, "won't go away" idea? Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 28 21:53:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA21998 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:53:03 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:53:03 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 28 21:52:59 1997 Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com (arl-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.136]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA21738 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:52:58 -0700 Received: by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA09043; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 00:52:53 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 00:48:42 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429044841_515664.456256_JHL51-21@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 41 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Energy-storing grounds and resistors? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA26259; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 00:48:01 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20996; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:46:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:46:30 -0700 Message-Id: <33654796.6B83@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:57:58 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Energy-storing grounds and resistors? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5Q8fa3.0.-75.bqNPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi folks, This is one of those ideas that you would like to stop thinking about but it won't let go, no matter how naive it is. Watch folks while I show my ignorance :> When I was first learning about electricity I was shocked when I realized that the main thing that electrical machines do is throw away electricity. All of those resistors turning electrical energy into heat, and then when you're down it all goes into the ground, the biggest resistor of all. I started thinking, suppose all that electricity we're turning into heat could be stored and then used later? The voltage drop through a resistor would be preserved in some way to use again. Some crude, inefficient methods came to me. A large resistor could be converted into a small resistor and a lamp/photocell/battery assembly. The photocell assembly would appear to the main circuit as a resistor in the normal fashion, but it would store the extra energy (or a part of it). The same thing for heating elements and thermocouples etc. An uncharged battery could be put in parallel with a resistor, etc. For a constant frequency current like house current, you could use resonant traps to operate as low-power active resistors or as an electronic ground. Let's look at the structure of an electronic ground first. A ground must: 1) be at a lower potential than the rest of the circuit. 2) have low resistance to the flow of current. There may be other things a ground must have but I don't know them. (Remember I had trouble with the whole idea). I'm sure that there is some circuit that doesn't use a lot of power, has a very low input impedance, and is an effective storer of energy? A flywheel? According to my definition of a ground, a superconducting ring might work as such an energy storage ground. Obviously this is not very practical in suburbia, so I started thinking in terms of resonant circuits. Imagine that your grounding wire goes to an assembly consisting of many series resonators in parallel, so that the total resistance is very low. They are in two groups that are alternately switched in and out of the house current going to ground. When a resonator is part of the circuit it absorbs some of the energy, when it is switched out of the circuit the resonator is dumped into a load. The house current always sees a low-impedance termination that absorbs power like a ground, yet the energy is transferred to a battery pack or some other load. Is there even a grain of sense in my irritating, "won't go away" idea? Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 05:12:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA19070; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3365AF2E.CE0@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 01:19:58 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Electromechanical Overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n30bD3.0.tf4.KIUPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Folks, I invite you to consider the following device-- and pick it apart! Imagine an electromechanical tuning fork, or bell circuit, that's operating at resonance. It is a real machine with losses, but these losses have been minimized by design. Two capacitors are attached to the fork or resonator in such a way that as the fork vibrates the C of one capacitor goes up as the other goes down. They are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. In this situation it takes no work to change the capacitances, because the energy used to go against the field in one capacitor is the energy gained on the other one by the field's attraction. This means that the capacitors do not load the fork or clapper (except to a negligible degree mechanically). Now imagine that each capacitor is separately connected to its own resonant circuit, containing a load resistor and an inductor. Because of parametric excitation (whose existence I hope is no longer in dispute, as it is a part of any college physics text!) each circuit develops a current and a voltage. The question is, where did the energy come from? At this point some smart cookie should be saying, "but what about the current built up by the parametric circuits? Isn't it flowing into the plates and opposing their movement?" If there were a single capacitor, this would be true. But the two capacitors are mechanically 180 degrees out of phase, so the output currents are also 180 degrees out of phase and cancel mechanically. The whole assembly is physically connected so that the electrodynamic forces on the plates cancel. The interesting thing is that the energy transfer between the vibrator and the capacitors is nonreciprocal. If the two output currents are fed back to the plates on their tuning fork support, the result is -- nothing. We have already established that the electrostatic forces in the capacitors cancel. They neither add nor subtract work to the system taken as a unit. But there is energy in the circuit that was not there before. If the losses in the vibrator circuit are less than the power gained in the parametric circuits we have "new" energy. I believe if you look into the principles of this device you will see Testatika as well. I'll be interested in what you have to say. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 05:16:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA20516 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:16:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue Apr 29 05:16:16 1997 Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com (hil-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.177.133]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA20280 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA11743; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:15:17 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 08:08:52 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429120851_515664.456256_JHO43-20@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 18 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Electromechanical Overunity Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA02753; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:10:12 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA19070; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3365AF2E.CE0@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 01:19:58 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Electromechanical Overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n30bD3.0.tf4.KIUPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Folks, I invite you to consider the following device-- and pick it apart! Imagine an electromechanical tuning fork, or bell circuit, that's operating at resonance. It is a real machine with losses, but these losses have been minimized by design. Two capacitors are attached to the fork or resonator in such a way that as the fork vibrates the C of one capacitor goes up as the other goes down. They are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. In this situation it takes no work to change the capacitances, because the energy used to go against the field in one capacitor is the energy gained on the other one by the field's attraction. This means that the capacitors do not load the fork or clapper (except to a negligible degree mechanically). Now imagine that each capacitor is separately connected to its own resonant circuit, containing a load resistor and an inductor. Because of parametric excitation (whose existence I hope is no longer in dispute, as it is a part of any college physics text!) each circuit develops a current and a voltage. The question is, where did the energy come from? At this point some smart cookie should be saying, "but what about the current built up by the parametric circuits? Isn't it flowing into the plates and opposing their movement?" If there were a single capacitor, this would be true. But the two capacitors are mechanically 180 degrees out of phase, so the output currents are also 180 degrees out of phase and cancel mechanically. The whole assembly is physically connected so that the electrodynamic forces on the plates cancel. The interesting thing is that the energy transfer between the vibrator and the capacitors is nonreciprocal. If the two output currents are fed back to the plates on their tuning fork support, the result is -- nothing. We have already established that the electrostatic forces in the capacitors cancel. They neither add nor subtract work to the system taken as a unit. But there is energy in the circuit that was not there before. If the losses in the vibrator circuit are less than the power gained in the parametric circuits we have "new" energy. I believe if you look into the principles of this device you will see Testatika as well. I'll be interested in what you have to say. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 08:15:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA15858; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:05:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:05:07 -0700 Message-ID: <33663824.67F5@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:04:20 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy-storing grounds and resistors? References: <33654796.6B83@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"paZs_1.0.ht3.YuWPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fred B. Epps wrote: > A ground must: > 1) be at a lower potential than the rest of the circuit. > 2) have low resistance to the flow of current. > There may be other things a ground must have but I don't know them. > (Remember I had trouble with the whole idea). Setting aside the fact that a circuit can operate perfectly well without being grounded.....the main thing a 'ground' does, is to provide a return path to the source of potential powering the circuit. The energy flowing into the ground return path is not waste energy! Break this return path, and watch your original load grind to a halt. You could make more efficient use of the power already used by a circuit, as with the photocell-lamp combination, or thermocouples on power resistors, etc. But for our original circuit to work, we must still put the energy in, and also give it a return path to complete the circuit. We cannot simply connect the 'ground' to an energy storage circuit and have the circuit work. As energy in the storage system builds, it's potential will rise to the point where the potential differance across out load (original circuit) drops to zero, and energy will no longer flow through the load. You could add additional circuitry that only let 'waste' energy from the original circuit flow into storage in one direction, but the basic problem remains. At some point, the stored energy level will reach the maximum potential delivered through the one way gate device, and we will stop the flow of energy into the storage device. Oh yes, this one way gate, it also wastes energy in the form of heat, but we can assume this is less than we collected as 'waste' energy from our original load. > Is there even a grain of sense in my irritating, "won't go away" idea? Yes, we can improve the efficiency of a device by collecting 'waste' energy from power resistors or other high dissapation components. This is often done in large, industrial systems where the waste energy and energy costs make such an effort pay off. But even if we are as good as possbible at collecting this 'waste' energy, we can never bring the original load to 100% efficiency. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 09:10:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA25477; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:01:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:01:38 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC547B.BE3E5D40@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Energy-storing grounds and resistors? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:00:09 -0700 Encoding: 15 TEXT, 42 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"2gqpM3.0.vD6.XjXPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Is there even a grain of sense in my irritating, "won't go away" idea? > Fred Fred, it's an interesting proposition, and for some applications it might be useful. However, for most of the situations where we're using large amounts of electrical power (motors, lights, heaters) it is the resistive element that is providing us with the desired output. One therefore couldn't replace the resistance with an energy-storing element. And wouldn't inserting anything, regardless of how small impedence, between the working device and ground decrease the output power of the primary device in proportion to the amount of energy stored in the ground-storage unit? Dan begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@H0`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N2US=&]R:6YG(&=R;W5N9',@86YD(')E`' ``0```"H```!213H@16YEL"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K X!]@YG(+<1Z@9B 1\ " 'U!I)A%M M>1^P<@40`9!T00N 9RP@(G<"(">'!4 ?D%L"$ 7 1\P)Z,90&?O"Q$[$ 01)D%H-J F8 # M?Q:Q!W ><0GP1! GT#7@=,\VL"61'S(H`')K,J(-L/] ($01,[()P#IQ'I % M@1E _Q_P1"1!U#NE-[44P =P"L#_)Q!,M281,N-(00(@'R H@281]Q\S37-&$V$Z(3J )V I-OTM-40`<%5<'*\@Z5;5&&$"`%FP M```#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',*#VU1&U5+P!0 `(,*#VU1&U5+P!'@`] ;``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``(M' ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 12:29:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA20939 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:29:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue Apr 29 12:29:34 1997 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com (dub-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA20723 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA05585; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:28:29 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 15:21:57 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429192156_515664.456256_IHB49-35@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: How did the Hendershot Device work? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA12002; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:22:19 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA18558; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:14:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cougar.isg.siue.edu: wrichar owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:18:38 -0500 (CDT) From: WARREN RICHARDS X-Sender: wrichar@cougar To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How did the Hendershot Device work? In-Reply-To: <3363A4C1.5010@mail.halcyon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Lk8Kz1.0.sX4.JYaPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 27 Apr 1997, Fred B. Epps wrote: > HOW DID THE HENDERSHOT DEVICE WORK? > > In this analysis of how the Hendershot machine might have worked, I > will make certain simplifying assumptions. > First, I assume you are familiar with the circuit diagram and > construction features of the Hendershot device. If not, you can find > this information at > I also assume the device can be analyzed as two parts.... Where can I get the Hendershot circuit diagram from? I have heard many descriptions of the device, but I am not sure that the circuit is how I imagine it to be. As I recall, Hendershot did change the electrolytic capacitor by unwinding it and drying it out before winding it back up (tell me if this is not correct). I believe that someone on this list, many months ago, said that drying out the capacitor would make it into a common battery. I believe that someone else said that radium cloride could have been put on the inside of the battery making it into a atomic battery. And now from Fred's post, I wonder if drying out the capacitor would make it better for a magnetic field to change the "k" value that would change the capacitance, making it into a parametric device. What do you think? Warren Richards. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 12:33:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA18558; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:14:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cougar.isg.siue.edu: wrichar owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:18:38 -0500 (CDT) From: WARREN RICHARDS X-Sender: wrichar@cougar To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How did the Hendershot Device work? In-Reply-To: <3363A4C1.5010@mail.halcyon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Lk8Kz1.0.sX4.JYaPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 27 Apr 1997, Fred B. Epps wrote: > HOW DID THE HENDERSHOT DEVICE WORK? > > In this analysis of how the Hendershot machine might have worked, I > will make certain simplifying assumptions. > First, I assume you are familiar with the circuit diagram and > construction features of the Hendershot device. If not, you can find > this information at > I also assume the device can be analyzed as two parts.... Where can I get the Hendershot circuit diagram from? I have heard many descriptions of the device, but I am not sure that the circuit is how I imagine it to be. As I recall, Hendershot did change the electrolytic capacitor by unwinding it and drying it out before winding it back up (tell me if this is not correct). I believe that someone on this list, many months ago, said that drying out the capacitor would make it into a common battery. I believe that someone else said that radium cloride could have been put on the inside of the battery making it into a atomic battery. And now from Fred's post, I wonder if drying out the capacitor would make it better for a magnetic field to change the "k" value that would change the capacitance, making it into a parametric device. What do you think? Warren Richards. From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 13:38:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA00340 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:38:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: uucp@iggy.triode.net.au Tue Apr 29 13:38:29 1997 Received: from iggy.triode.net.au (uucp@iggy.triode.net.au [203.63.235.1]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA00308 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by iggy.triode.net.au (8.8.5/8.6.9(iggy)) id GAA12303 for freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 06:39:56 +1000 Received: by elec.triode.net.au (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Tue, 29 Apr 97 21:18:59 +1000 for freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Old-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:18:26 +0000 From: vlx@vlx.triode.net.au (Vlad Lasky) To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Subject: subscribe Message-ID: <896e4927120newsy@elec.triode.net.au> X-Mailer: Newsy 1.4.1 Lines: 3 X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Vlad Lasky "The best things in life are food and sleep." vlx@elec.triode.net.au System Administrator, The Electronic BBS (+61-2-387-7146) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 13:48:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA29084; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:31:50 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:23:54 PST Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Message-ID: <19970217.103055.6750.0.tv@juno.com> References: <3365AF2E.CE0@mail.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-6,9-12,14-67 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"O-7BN2.0.I67.ngbPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Fred, I think what you describe below is two tank circuits exchanging energy with the tuning fork acting as the coupling element. Energy would still have to be put in to overcome losses. This is a perpetual motion machine of the first kind, ( it attempts to create energy from nothing and violate energy conservation law which is more fundamental then the 2nd Law ). Tim On Tue, 29 Apr 1997 01:19:58 -0700 "Fred B. Epps" writes: >Hello Folks, > > I invite you to consider the following device-- and pick it apart! > > Imagine an electromechanical tuning fork, or bell circuit, that's >operating at resonance. It is a real machine with losses, but these >losses have been minimized by design. > Two capacitors are attached to the fork or resonator in such a way >that as the fork vibrates the C of one capacitor goes up as the other >goes down. They are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. In this >situation it takes no work to change the capacitances, because the >energy used to go against the field in one capacitor is the energy >gained on the other one by the field's attraction. This means that the >capacitors do not load the fork or clapper (except to a negligible >degree mechanically). > Now imagine that each capacitor is separately connected to its own >resonant circuit, containing a load resistor and an inductor. Because >of >parametric excitation (whose existence I hope is no longer in dispute, >as it is a part of any college physics text!) each circuit develops a >current and a voltage. > The question is, where did the energy come from? > > At this point some smart cookie should be saying, "but what about >the >current built up by the parametric circuits? Isn't it flowing into >the >plates and opposing their movement?" If there were a single capacitor, >this would be true. But the two capacitors are mechanically 180 >degrees >out of phase, so the output currents are also 180 degrees out of phase >and cancel mechanically. The whole assembly is physically connected so >that the electrodynamic forces on the plates cancel. > The interesting thing is that the energy transfer between the >vibrator and the capacitors is nonreciprocal. If the two output >currents >are fed back to the plates on their tuning fork support, the result is >-- nothing. We have already established that the electrostatic forces >in >the capacitors cancel. They neither add nor subtract work to the >system >taken as a unit. > But there is energy in the circuit that was not there before. If >the >losses in the vibrator circuit are less than the power gained in the >parametric circuits we have "new" energy. > I believe if you look into the principles of this device you will >see >Testatika as well. > I'll be interested in what you have to say. > Fred > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 14:09:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA08285; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:54:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:54:01 -0700 Message-Id: <33662A84.5580@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:06:12 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: energy storing resistors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sHuIi3.0.J12.d_bPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bob, Dan, and all, Dan wrote: > be useful. However, for most of the situations where we're using large > amounts of electrical power (motors, lights, heaters) it is the resistive > element that is providing us with the desired output. One therefore > couldn't replace the resistance with an energy-storing element. And > wouldn't inserting anything, regardless of how small impedence, between the > working device and ground decrease the output power of the primary device > in proportion to the amount of energy stored in the ground-storage unit? Agreed. Bob wrote: > Setting aside the fact that a circuit can operate perfectly well without > being grounded.....the main thing a 'ground' does, is to provide a > return path to the source of potential powering the circuit. That in itself seems strange to me. Does every circuit need a return path, or not? Maybe in many cases the return path is the result of displacement current or EM waves. > The energy flowing into the ground return path is not waste energy! > Break this return path, and watch your original load grind to a halt. Agreed. > You could make more efficient use of the power already used by a > circuit, as with the photocell-lamp combination, or thermocouples on > power resistors, etc. > > But for our original circuit to work, we must still put the energy in, > and also give it a return path to complete the circuit. I agree with all of these points, Bob and Dan. Thanks for clearing that one out of my mind, now I can finally put it to rest :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 14:26:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA07869 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:26:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue Apr 29 14:25:36 1997 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.217.137]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA07558 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA16775; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:24:30 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 17:12:15 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429211214_515664.456256_IHL43-28@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 40 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: energy storing resistors Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA25315; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:57:53 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA08285; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:54:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:54:01 -0700 Message-Id: <33662A84.5580@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:06:12 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: energy storing resistors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sHuIi3.0.J12.d_bPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bob, Dan, and all, Dan wrote: > be useful. However, for most of the situations where we're using large > amounts of electrical power (motors, lights, heaters) it is the resistive > element that is providing us with the desired output. One therefore > couldn't replace the resistance with an energy-storing element. And > wouldn't inserting anything, regardless of how small impedence, between the > working device and ground decrease the output power of the primary device > in proportion to the amount of energy stored in the ground-storage unit? Agreed. Bob wrote: > Setting aside the fact that a circuit can operate perfectly well without > being grounded.....the main thing a 'ground' does, is to provide a > return path to the source of potential powering the circuit. That in itself seems strange to me. Does every circuit need a return path, or not? Maybe in many cases the return path is the result of displacement current or EM waves. > The energy flowing into the ground return path is not waste energy! > Break this return path, and watch your original load grind to a halt. Agreed. > You could make more efficient use of the power already used by a > circuit, as with the photocell-lamp combination, or thermocouples on > power resistors, etc. > > But for our original circuit to work, we must still put the energy in, > and also give it a return path to complete the circuit. I agree with all of these points, Bob and Dan. Thanks for clearing that one out of my mind, now I can finally put it to rest :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 14:48:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA11440 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:48:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue Apr 29 14:47:35 1997 Received: from hil-img-6.compuserve.com (hil-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.177.136]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA11110 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA26204; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:46:30 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 17:41:37 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429214136_515664.456256_IHO62-49@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 40 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: electromechanical overunity Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA04236; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:41:02 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA14145; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:37:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:37:55 -0700 Message-Id: <336634CB.78BD@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:50:03 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electromechanical overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dn04q.0.mS3.necPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Tim and all, Tim says: > think what you describe below is two tank circuits exchanging energy > with > the tuning fork acting as the coupling element. Energy would still have > to > be put in to overcome losses. I grant that the system is lossy in my original post. If we are looking at the capacitors as an isolated system we can see that voltage neither increases or decreses even as work is needed to move the two capacitor assembly. Not only is this system not overunity, it has an efficiency of zero! I am well aware of that. We are not looking at the capacitors as an isolated system and we are not looking at voltage increase due to electric induction. Each capacitor is part of a parametric circuit pumped by varying C with no source of EMF. The two resonant circuits are coupled together but only mechanically and in a cancelling fashion because their outputs are 180 degrees out of phase. Do you agree that when equal mechanical forces are applied on each side of an object that the object remains at rest? The two electrodynamic forces still exist but they have no mechanical loading effect on the clapper or tuning fork. Since the parametric currents are totally linked to the varying capacitance values, they are also 180 degrees out of phase and their electrodynamic forces also cancel. Yet the parametric currents will each have an energy output despite the fact that they do not load the electromechanical vibrator at all. If these energy outputs are higher than the losses in the fork driver -which can be easily done by design- then the system is overunity. I will put the ball in your court, Tim, and ask you to give me some ways that the capacitive resonant system in our example will load the mechanical vibrator, and any reason why a standard parametric resonant circuit will not work. I have derived my device from the original papers on nonreciprocal systems. Something similar is used as an illustration of the mathematical proof that energy can be transferred in a one-way fashion. I only added a resonant circuit to their original example to make it more 'efficient' :). This is a perpetual motion machine > of the first kind, ( it attempts to create energy from nothing and > violate energy conservation law which is more fundamental then the 2nd > Law ). Well, if you're going to break a big law, you might as well break a REALLY big law! ;-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 14:53:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA14145; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:37:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:37:55 -0700 Message-Id: <336634CB.78BD@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:50:03 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electromechanical overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dn04q.0.mS3.necPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Tim and all, Tim says: > think what you describe below is two tank circuits exchanging energy > with > the tuning fork acting as the coupling element. Energy would still have > to > be put in to overcome losses. I grant that the system is lossy in my original post. If we are looking at the capacitors as an isolated system we can see that voltage neither increases or decreses even as work is needed to move the two capacitor assembly. Not only is this system not overunity, it has an efficiency of zero! I am well aware of that. We are not looking at the capacitors as an isolated system and we are not looking at voltage increase due to electric induction. Each capacitor is part of a parametric circuit pumped by varying C with no source of EMF. The two resonant circuits are coupled together but only mechanically and in a cancelling fashion because their outputs are 180 degrees out of phase. Do you agree that when equal mechanical forces are applied on each side of an object that the object remains at rest? The two electrodynamic forces still exist but they have no mechanical loading effect on the clapper or tuning fork. Since the parametric currents are totally linked to the varying capacitance values, they are also 180 degrees out of phase and their electrodynamic forces also cancel. Yet the parametric currents will each have an energy output despite the fact that they do not load the electromechanical vibrator at all. If these energy outputs are higher than the losses in the fork driver -which can be easily done by design- then the system is overunity. I will put the ball in your court, Tim, and ask you to give me some ways that the capacitive resonant system in our example will load the mechanical vibrator, and any reason why a standard parametric resonant circuit will not work. I have derived my device from the original papers on nonreciprocal systems. Something similar is used as an illustration of the mathematical proof that energy can be transferred in a one-way fashion. I only added a resonant circuit to their original example to make it more 'efficient' :). This is a perpetual motion machine > of the first kind, ( it attempts to create energy from nothing and > violate energy conservation law which is more fundamental then the 2nd > Law ). Well, if you're going to break a big law, you might as well break a REALLY big law! ;-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 15:02:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA11802; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336637B1.338B@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:02:25 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hendershot device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DTg6G3.0.Gu2.bqcPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Warren and others, >Where can I get the Hendershot circuit diagram from? I have heard many > descriptions of the device, but I am not sure that the circuit is how I > imagine it to be. I will send you what I have on Hendershot in the next few weeks. > the inside of the battery making it into a atomic battery. And now from > Fred's post, I wonder if drying out the capacitor would make it better for > a magnetic field to change the "k" value that would change the > capacitance, making it into a parametric device. > > What do you think? It could be both. Maybe the Hubbard coil and the Paul Brown nuclear battery had their capacitance parametrically varied by radiation. A thin sheet of radioactive material moved near a cap would certainly have an effect on the capacitance. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 15:04:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA11340; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC54AC.0732A940@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: energy storing resistors Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:45:48 -0700 Encoding: 28 TEXT, 44 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"E-Ytn2.0.ym2.FocPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey Fred, Your question > Does every circuit need a return path, or not? on surface seems elementary (look at the root of the word 'circuit'); but it is a good one, really. We're talking electrical circuit here, like voltage and wires, right? Well, voltage is a relative difference in potential, and to have a relative difference you need two points for the relationship, like a beginning and an ending, positive and negative, source and ground... but: Say you have the infamous light-year-long circuit, and you put a coil in series with it (on this end, please :-). Put a sufficiently high voltage across the circuit. Does it take a year for the coil to show a magnetic field? Maybe the circuit doesn't really need a return path, it just needs to *believe* there is one! Like I don't really need a date for Friday night, but thinking I have one gives me a whole lot more energy during the week... Dan begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C$5`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N2!S=&]R:6YG(')E# $````% M````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!<```!D97%U:6-K97)T0'5C9&%V:7,N961U M```#``80)>8&MP,`!Q#4`@``'@`($ $```!E````2$591E)%1"Q93U52455% M4U1)3TY$3T53159%4EE#25)#54E43D5%1$%215154DY0051(+$]23D]4/T]. M4U521D%#15-%14U314Q%345.5$%262A,3T]+05142$523T]43T942 `````" M`0D0`0```(@#``"$`P``U@4``$Q:1G5&%0HG_P`*`0\"%0*D`^0%ZP*#`% 3 M`U0"`&-H"L!S973N,@8`!L,"@S(#Q@<3`H-&,P/%`@!PFAE; ,@1&QG70* ?0J ",\)V3L9/S(\-34"@ J!#;$+8&YG>#$P M,Q0@"PH2\@P!8X$`0"!(97D@1AE!+BP*A0J/'4Q9"&$@<=L*4!4P:0(@'KP^ M"N$+9-<5P@P!%,!O%4!C!4 8`#)O!Y%E=@20'D!C:5!R8W5I!4!N">!DZ"!A M(!E = AP"Y ?_P\D0"+O(_0?4'1H+"#U!;%N(_ _'R\=3"GE`B#4(',(<&8` MT&4L8 G@>FTDD6P54 GP`9 DX2CY&-!O:R70!4 I,"S0`V!K(_ I8&8N@W<% ML"7 )X$E%2O#"A.AZ\!A >0+\](CMS M+I(+@"R@!&!U!""3-< W82UY,A!R+1C0[S0!)14ZY#TB<#"Q)> %H/\#$3HA M$? (@00@`_ I,##2?B@L02DP,1%!04&A+6!A`1'P(#HM*2X@4/]*,RQP#= T MD B0`C R0#50_S=1-@@%`$'0!" NDB4537#_)&,E80&0/^-(8'YI7T!703=2*5 PHDPQ;O\SXUW@.W,QL3%0.3$$( > M_271=U,@+6 UL"[Q!& S@>L)\ 209QY 9 AQ- $O4[T)X&M$021 'KPIY40` M<%\>ORJ/(]9G=1AA`&I0`P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S"@?.."XE2\`4 ` H"#"@?.."XE2\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ``````P`--/TW```]>U2\ ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 15:16:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA21664 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:16:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:16:11 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@compuserve.com Tue Apr 29 15:16:08 1997 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.217.137]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA19551 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:04:50 -0700 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA24786; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:04:18 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 17:57:10 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429215709_515664.456256_IHL35-23@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 21 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Hendershot device Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA23522; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:58:29 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA11802; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336637B1.338B@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:02:25 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hendershot device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DTg6G3.0.Gu2.bqcPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Warren and others, >Where can I get the Hendershot circuit diagram from? I have heard many > descriptions of the device, but I am not sure that the circuit is how I > imagine it to be. I will send you what I have on Hendershot in the next few weeks. > the inside of the battery making it into a atomic battery. And now from > Fred's post, I wonder if drying out the capacitor would make it better for > a magnetic field to change the "k" value that would change the > capacitance, making it into a parametric device. > > What do you think? It could be both. Maybe the Hubbard coil and the Paul Brown nuclear battery had their capacitance parametrically varied by radiation. A thin sheet of radioactive material moved near a cap would certainly have an effect on the capacitance. Fred From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 15:31:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23548 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:31:27 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:31:27 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 15:31:23 1997 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA23471 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:31:22 -0700 Received: from localhost by relay3.UU.NET with internal (peer crosschecked as: localhost) id QQcnks05440; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:31:35 -0400 (EDT) From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="QQcnks05440.862353095/relay3.UU.NET" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET bounced 2 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request This is a MIME-encapsulated message --QQcnks05440.862353095/relay3.UU.NET The original message was received at Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:31:32 -0400 (EDT) from mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to cornellc.cit.cornell.edu.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Host 'BGEARN.BITNET' Unknown 550 ... User unknown --QQcnks05440.862353095/relay3.UU.NET Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; relay3.UU.NET Received-From-MTA: dns; mx2.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; cornellc.cit.cornell.edu Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 Host 'BGEARN.BITNET' Unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:31:35 -0400 (EDT) --QQcnks05440.862353095/relay3.UU.NET Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay3.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnks05420; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:31:32 -0400 (EDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA13878; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704292204.PAA13878@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #153 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/153 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --QQcnks05440.862353095/relay3.UU.NET-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 15:54:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20138; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33664406.1602@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:55:02 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: energy storing resistors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aj4_C.0.aw4.qbdPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dan and all, > Maybe the circuit doesn't really need a return path, it just needs to > *believe* there is one! Like I don't really need a date for Friday night, I think the electrostatic potential is simultaneous. At the instant the switch is closed (in a circuit with a switch, a load, and a resistor) the potential gradient is established over the circuit and the current begins to flow. Several experiments have shown that energy can travel through a wire at many times c. The current doesn't need to believe there is a return path, it knows there is one. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 15:54:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20807; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970429154525.00a61cec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:45:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Y56jN1.0.055.medPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I would prefer if the tunning fork was moving ferromagnetic cores in and out of air core coils, thus changing the parameter [L} inductance instead of changing the capacitance by moving the plates of the capacitor. This would be much easier to analyze and easier to build. HV capacitors with movable plates are a pain to work with and would depend on the humidity of air if not sealed. Movable ferrite core seems much better to me. At 01:19 AM 4/29/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello Folks, > > I invite you to consider the following device-- and pick it apart! > > Imagine an electromechanical tuning fork, or bell circuit, that's >operating at resonance. It is a real machine with losses, but these >losses have been minimized by design. > Two capacitors are attached to the fork or resonator in such a way >that as the fork vibrates the C of one capacitor goes up as the other >goes down. They are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. In this >situation it takes no work to change the capacitances, because the >energy used to go against the field in one capacitor is the energy >gained on the other one by the field's attraction. This means that the >capacitors do not load the fork or clapper (except to a negligible >degree mechanically). > Now imagine that each capacitor is separately connected to its own >resonant circuit, containing a load resistor and an inductor. Because of >parametric excitation (whose existence I hope is no longer in dispute, >as it is a part of any college physics text!) each circuit develops a >current and a voltage. > The question is, where did the energy come from? > > At this point some smart cookie should be saying, "but what about the >current built up by the parametric circuits? Isn't it flowing into the >plates and opposing their movement?" If there were a single capacitor, >this would be true. But the two capacitors are mechanically 180 degrees >out of phase, so the output currents are also 180 degrees out of phase >and cancel mechanically. The whole assembly is physically connected so >that the electrodynamic forces on the plates cancel. > The interesting thing is that the energy transfer between the >vibrator and the capacitors is nonreciprocal. If the two output currents >are fed back to the plates on their tuning fork support, the result is >-- nothing. We have already established that the electrostatic forces in >the capacitors cancel. They neither add nor subtract work to the system >taken as a unit. > But there is energy in the circuit that was not there before. If the >losses in the vibrator circuit are less than the power gained in the >parametric circuits we have "new" energy. > I believe if you look into the principles of this device you will see >Testatika as well. > I'll be interested in what you have to say. > Fred > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 15:57:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23092 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:57:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue Apr 29 15:56:54 1997 Received: from hil-img-9.compuserve.com (hil-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.177.139]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA22924 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA01606; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:55:53 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 18:47:52 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429224751_515664.456256_IHJ33-26@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to hil-img-6.compuserve.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: energy storing resistors Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA13355; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:47:15 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnkt15924; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20138; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33664406.1602@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:55:02 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: energy storing resistors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aj4_C.0.aw4.qbdPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dan and all, > Maybe the circuit doesn't really need a return path, it just needs to > *believe* there is one! Like I don't really need a date for Friday night, I think the electrostatic potential is simultaneous. At the instant the switch is closed (in a circuit with a switch, a load, and a resistor) the potential gradient is established over the circuit and the current begins to flow. Several experiments have shown that energy can travel through a wire at many times c. The current doesn't need to believe there is a return path, it knows there is one. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 16:11:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25475 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:11:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue Apr 29 16:10:41 1997 Received: from dub-img-8.compuserve.com (dub-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA25276 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA09978; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:09:41 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 19:02:06 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970429230205_515664.456256_IHB74-29@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to dub-img-3.compuserve.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Electromechanical Overunity Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA22664; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:01:34 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnku19390; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20807; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970429154525.00a61cec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:45:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Y56jN1.0.055.medPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I would prefer if the tunning fork was moving ferromagnetic cores in and out of air core coils, thus changing the parameter [L} inductance instead of changing the capacitance by moving the plates of the capacitor. This would be much easier to analyze and easier to build. HV capacitors with movable plates are a pain to work with and would depend on the humidity of air if not sealed. Movable ferrite core seems much better to me. At 01:19 AM 4/29/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello Folks, > > I invite you to consider the following device-- and pick it apart! > > Imagine an electromechanical tuning fork, or bell circuit, that's >operating at resonance. It is a real machine with losses, but these >losses have been minimized by design. > Two capacitors are attached to the fork or resonator in such a way >that as the fork vibrates the C of one capacitor goes up as the other >goes down. They are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. In this >situation it takes no work to change the capacitances, because the >energy used to go against the field in one capacitor is the energy >gained on the other one by the field's attraction. This means that the >capacitors do not load the fork or clapper (except to a negligible >degree mechanically). > Now imagine that each capacitor is separately connected to its own >resonant circuit, containing a load resistor and an inductor. Because of >parametric excitation (whose existence I hope is no longer in dispute, >as it is a part of any college physics text!) each circuit develops a >current and a voltage. > The question is, where did the energy come from? > > At this point some smart cookie should be saying, "but what about the >current built up by the parametric circuits? Isn't it flowing into the >plates and opposing their movement?" If there were a single capacitor, >this would be true. But the two capacitors are mechanically 180 degrees >out of phase, so the output currents are also 180 degrees out of phase >and cancel mechanically. The whole assembly is physically connected so >that the electrodynamic forces on the plates cancel. > The interesting thing is that the energy transfer between the >vibrator and the capacitors is nonreciprocal. If the two output currents >are fed back to the plates on their tuning fork support, the result is >-- nothing. We have already established that the electrostatic forces in >the capacitors cancel. They neither add nor subtract work to the system >taken as a unit. > But there is energy in the circuit that was not there before. If the >losses in the vibrator circuit are less than the power gained in the >parametric circuits we have "new" energy. > I believe if you look into the principles of this device you will see >Testatika as well. > I'll be interested in what you have to say. > Fred > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 20:49:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA06442; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:44:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:44:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970429224436.006a3504@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:44:36 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lona Ford Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] In-Reply-To: <33646AA1.624B@triode.net.au> References: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> <336418C4.54BF@microtronics.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"b-TTv2.0.aa1.j0iPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 02:15 AM 4/28/97 -0700, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> > > "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude >> > > 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as >> > > by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the >> > > stored electrical energy is increased. >> > >> > But you have to do work in holding the current constant, i.e, fight the >> > voltage induced across the inductor as the inductance changes. >> >> If you hold the coil current constant, the iron core will be sucked in >> even harder. > >Correct. And more energy (VxI) comes from the power supply. > >> >> The coil current drops in an attempt to hold coil energy constant. > >I agree. > >Maxwell. > also be aware there is a voltage drop thus power wich rapidly waisting energy. current may be held constant by a current source and the voltage will change until the aproprate energy level is reached From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 29 20:52:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA09151 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue Apr 29 20:52:04 1997 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com (dub-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA08934 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA16862; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:51:01 -0400 Old-Date: 29 Apr 97 23:47:51 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970430034750_515664.456256_FHA41-11@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 37 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA23545; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:47:17 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA06442; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:44:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:44:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970429224436.006a3504@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:44:36 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lona Ford Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION] In-Reply-To: <33646AA1.624B@triode.net.au> References: <3364573E.72EE@triode.net.au> <336418C4.54BF@microtronics.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"b-TTv2.0.aa1.j0iPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 02:15 AM 4/28/97 -0700, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> > > "One knows that there is energy stored in this inductance of magnitude >> > > 1/2 LI*2 and if this inductance is now increased in some manner, such as >> > > by inserting an iron core into L (while holding I constant). then the >> > > stored electrical energy is increased. >> > >> > But you have to do work in holding the current constant, i.e, fight the >> > voltage induced across the inductor as the inductance changes. >> >> If you hold the coil current constant, the iron core will be sucked in >> even harder. > >Correct. And more energy (VxI) comes from the power supply. > >> >> The coil current drops in an attempt to hold coil energy constant. > >I agree. > >Maxwell. > also be aware there is a voltage drop thus power wich rapidly waisting energy. current may be held constant by a current source and the voltage will change until the aproprate energy level is reached From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 04:37:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA23290; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 04:32:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 04:32:34 -0700 Message-ID: <33672D92.35C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:01:30 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Expressions of Interest Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dlQhF1.0.kh5.HtoPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, I am interested in expressions of interest from freenrg, vortex, newman and other members who may wish to assist the next stage of my "Simple OU Device" development. I am working to a timetable to be able to demonstrate a prototype rotary magnetic unit, driving a small commercial generator, driving a small light buld (min 1-2 watts) to a select group with-in 2 months. The unit will be secured by world wide patents. A development company will be formed which will have the exclusive development rights. Finance will be sought from you on a strictly commercial basis. It is not my intention to seek support from normal financial sources. I believe we can do this ourselves. It is my intention for the basic technology of the unit to be available to any and all by way of a upfront fee (depending on usage) and royality fee (based on power generated). Everything from a home generator to a power station. It is not my intention for the company to engage in manufacturing. A management board will be formed from the shareholders which will represent the global community. I know this all sounds hairy-fairy but it is just a expression of interest at this time. I WILL NOT ask for financial support until I can demonstrate a working unit. If I can demonstrate a working unit, are you interested in : 1) Attending a demo in Adelaide? 2) Attending a demo in the USA? 3) Attending a demo in Europe? 4) If everything checks out, in investing my hard earned money. 5) In being involved in the development company : A) In Magagement. B) In Finance. C) In Marketing. D) In Development and Research. E) Other areas. I will treat all replies with confidence. By the way, I have built a electronics development company from myself to 45 people. I do understand how to do this. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 09:03:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA08332; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:52:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:52:53 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970430115206_1188836167@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Experiments with Bismuth? Resent-Message-ID: <"PFa-C3.0.622.KhsPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Since bismuth is I think the most diamagnetic metal I thought it would be interesting to introduce bismuth to some strong magnets and see what happens. I didn't bother to calculate expected force values, etc. But I did expect SOME kind of interaction. The bismuth and powerful magnet (around 5 kilogauss) completely ignored each other. Has anyone else used, or tried to use, bismuth in any magnetic experiments? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 09:06:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA09215; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:57:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:57:06 -0700 Message-ID: <55968E278718D011B04500805F14B2BE0102D83D@RED-15-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From: "Loren Skaggs (S&T Onsite)" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Dean Drive Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:55:58 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) Resent-Message-ID: <"QcGw72.0.rF2.HlsPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'm looking for information on the so-called "Dean Drive," an anchorless winch invented by Norman Dean back in the '50s. Anybody know of a good book or Web site? L.J. Skaggs From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 10:02:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA06050; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:55:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo Reply-To: Peter Jason Aldo To: Greg Watson Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest In-Reply-To: <33672D92.35C@microtronics.com.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"I6EL4.0.LU1.yVtPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Gregg, I just read your plans for the OU device. I am currently working on an overunity generator called a stationary armature generator. I just graduated from Ohio University with a major called Sustainable Technology with I designed myself. I am looking for employment and thought maybe you could give me some leads. I would also be interested in seeing the demonstration of your device when its completed. On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Hi All, > > I am interested in expressions of interest from freenrg, vortex, newman > and other members who may wish to assist the next stage of my "Simple OU > Device" development. > > I am working to a timetable to be able to demonstrate a prototype rotary > magnetic unit, driving a small commercial generator, driving a small > light buld (min 1-2 watts) to a select group with-in 2 months. > > The unit will be secured by world wide patents. > > A development company will be formed which will have the exclusive > development rights. > > Finance will be sought from you on a strictly commercial basis. > > It is not my intention to seek support from normal financial sources. I > believe we can do this ourselves. > > It is my intention for the basic technology of the unit to be available > to any and all by way of a upfront fee (depending on usage) and royality > fee (based on power generated). Everything from a home generator to a > power station. > > It is not my intention for the company to engage in manufacturing. > > A management board will be formed from the shareholders which will > represent the global community. > > > I know this all sounds hairy-fairy but it is just a expression of > interest at this time. > > I WILL NOT ask for financial support until I can demonstrate a working > unit. > > > If I can demonstrate a working unit, are you interested in : > > 1) Attending a demo in Adelaide? > > 2) Attending a demo in the USA? > > 3) Attending a demo in Europe? > > 4) If everything checks out, in investing my hard earned money. > > 5) In being involved in the development company : > > A) In Magagement. > > B) In Finance. > > C) In Marketing. > > D) In Development and Research. > > E) Other areas. > > I will treat all replies with confidence. > > > By the way, I have built a electronics development company from myself > to 45 people. I do understand how to do this. > > > -- > Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au > Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 11:45:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA26217 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:45:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed Apr 30 11:45:11 1997 Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA25991 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA22165; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:44:03 -0400 Old-Date: 30 Apr 97 09:36:50 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970430133649_515664.456256_BHP31-8@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Experiments with Bismuth? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA19430; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:38:36 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA23265; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:29:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970430115206_1188836167@emout07.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:27:34 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Experiments with Bismuth? Resent-Message-ID: <"Sl2Ns3.0.Qh5.gzuPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keasy@aol.com wrote: >Since bismuth is I think the most diamagnetic metal I thought it would be >interesting to introduce bismuth to some strong magnets and see what happens. > I didn't bother to calculate expected force values, etc. But I did expect >SOME kind of interaction. The bismuth and powerful magnet (around 5 >kilogauss) completely ignored each other. Has anyone else used, or tried to >use, bismuth in any magnetic experiments? Hang the bismuth from a thread and approach it with a strong magnet, and it will move away and/or try to re-orient itself to the field. This works on Pepto Bismol tablets too. For that matter, if your magnet is strong, it will work on plain water. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 11:51:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA23265; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:29:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970430115206_1188836167@emout07.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:27:34 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Experiments with Bismuth? Resent-Message-ID: <"Sl2Ns3.0.Qh5.gzuPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keasy@aol.com wrote: >Since bismuth is I think the most diamagnetic metal I thought it would be >interesting to introduce bismuth to some strong magnets and see what happens. > I didn't bother to calculate expected force values, etc. But I did expect >SOME kind of interaction. The bismuth and powerful magnet (around 5 >kilogauss) completely ignored each other. Has anyone else used, or tried to >use, bismuth in any magnetic experiments? Hang the bismuth from a thread and approach it with a strong magnet, and it will move away and/or try to re-orient itself to the field. This works on Pepto Bismol tablets too. For that matter, if your magnet is strong, it will work on plain water. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 11:52:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA24940; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC555B.6CA57960@ip129.ts6.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "', vortex-l@eskimo.com'" <>, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Looking for Electrical Engineer Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:41:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kKkxO2.0.c56.x7vPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Does anyone know a competent Electrical Engineer in Phoenix who is familiar with FET switching circuits? I need assistance on a free energy project under construction. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 11:53:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA27470 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:53:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed Apr 30 11:52:37 1997 Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com (arl-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.136]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA27163 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA21236; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:51:35 -0400 Old-Date: 30 Apr 97 14:42:45 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970430184244_515664.456256_GHQ45-39@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Looking for Electrical Engineer Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA19946; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:44:07 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA24940; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC555B.6CA57960@ip129.ts6.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "', vortex-l@eskimo.com'" <>, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Looking for Electrical Engineer Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:41:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kKkxO2.0.c56.x7vPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Does anyone know a competent Electrical Engineer in Phoenix who is familiar with FET switching circuits? I need assistance on a free energy project under construction. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 13:31:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA29264 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:31:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:31:42 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed Apr 30 13:31:37 1997 Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA29007 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:31:36 -0700 Received: by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA23104; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:31:04 -0400 Old-Date: 30 Apr 97 16:26:05 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970430202604_515664.456256_JHN28-62@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 38 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Dean Drive Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA21986; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:25:19 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA27095; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:20:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:20:09 -0700 From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Dean Drive Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:07:01 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970430202044817.AAB195@default> Resent-Message-ID: <"lEKfh1.0.Dd6.vbwPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com There is a patent on it. There was a "fact" article about it in Astounding/Analog about that time. I have a copy of the patent. There was quite a bit of interest and engineers from various companies tested it. It produces intense vibration, and if you put it on something like a bathroom scale, its measured weight decreases when turned on. However, if it is placed horizontally on a flat surface on air lubricated bearings, there is no net thrust. The difference is that nonlinearities in the scale mechanism perform mechanical rectification of the vibration, resulting in a reduced indication on the scale. Similar stories can be told about many of the "o/u" and "free energy" devices. They interact with measuring instruments in ways the inventors do not anticipate or understand, and so give "false positive" results. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 13:36:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA27095; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:20:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:20:09 -0700 From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Dean Drive Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:07:01 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970430202044817.AAB195@default> Resent-Message-ID: <"lEKfh1.0.Dd6.vbwPp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com There is a patent on it. There was a "fact" article about it in Astounding/Analog about that time. I have a copy of the patent. There was quite a bit of interest and engineers from various companies tested it. It produces intense vibration, and if you put it on something like a bathroom scale, its measured weight decreases when turned on. However, if it is placed horizontally on a flat surface on air lubricated bearings, there is no net thrust. The difference is that nonlinearities in the scale mechanism perform mechanical rectification of the vibration, resulting in a reduced indication on the scale. Similar stories can be told about many of the "o/u" and "free energy" devices. They interact with measuring instruments in ways the inventors do not anticipate or understand, and so give "false positive" results. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 14:32:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA20046; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:09:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:11:34 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: GYROSCOPIC MOTIONS..... Resent-Message-ID: <"WY0pt1.0.8v4.CKxPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com GYROSCOPIC MOTIONS..... Anti-Gravity Effects of a Clockwise Spinning Gyroscope Dr Hayasaka, and associates at Tohoku University, have conducted a second experiment which examines the weight difference between a right and left spinning gyroscope. A paper describing the experiment was presented at the International Conference of New Ideas in Natural Sciences, St. Petersburg Russia, June 1996. In Dr Hayasaka's first experiment (published in Physics Review Letters 63 pp 2701-2704, 1989), the weight difference between a right and left spinning gyroscope was measured on a balance scale. In the second experiment, the weight difference is determined by measuring differences in the fall time. Attempts were made to repeat Hayasaka's first experiment, each of which had a null result, and other papers were published crtical of his experimental method. See: Faller, et al, Phys Rev Lett 64, pp 825-826, 1990 Nitschke and Wilmarth, Phys Rev Lett 64, pp2115-2116, 1990 Salter, Nature, 343 pp 509-510, 1990 Quinn and Picard, Nature, 343 pp732-735, 1990 MacCallum, New Scientist, 17 Feb 1990, page 30 None the less, Hayasaka et al, have continued with a second experiment, presumably with funding provided by Matshushita. Interestingly, the experimental findings of the second experiment are very close to the amount of the first experiment. Also in the second paper, there is a reference to an earlier experiment done with falling gyroscopes which has a similar positive finding (done by T.S. Kemper but not published). =============================== "Possibility for the Existence of Anti-Gravity and the Complete Parity Breaking of Gravity; Evidence from Free-Fall Experiment of a Spinning Gyro." Authors: Hideo Hayasaka, Haruo Tanaka, Toshiyuki Hashida, and Tokushi Chubachi -- Faculty of Engineering, Tohoku University, Sendai 980, Japan, and Toshiki Sugiyama, Matsushita Communication Industrial Co. Ltd., Yokohama 226, Japan. Tel: 022-216-8139 Fax: 022-225-2263 email: hashida@rift.mech.tohoku.ac.jp Abstract: Free-fall experiment of a spinning gyro enclosed in a capsule has been conducted in order to investigate the effect of an object's spinning on the fall-acceleration. For ten runs of the fall-acceleration measurements, in which each run consists of the left, right and zero spinning about the vertical axis, it has been shown that the mean value of the right-spinning is significantly smaller than of the left-spinning at 18,000 rpm, with the latter being almost identical with of zero spinning. The result suggests that the right-spinning generates anti-gravity, and also that the parity (the reflection symmetry) of gravity breaks down completely. ================================================================= Summary of Experiment (by R. Stirniman): A gyroscope spinning at 18 thosand rpm is contained in a capsule and dropped through a vertical distance of about 170 cm. The fall of the capsule is accurately timed as it cuts through laser beams at three different heights. The experiment is conducted over a large number of trials at 10 different dates over the course of three months. A right spinning gyroscope (clockwise as viewed from the top) is found to fall more slowly than a left spinning gyroscope, or a non-spinning gyroscope. A left spinning and non-spinning gyroscope are found to fall at essentially the same rate. The average of the acceleration over all the experimental trials is determined to be: g(L) = 980.0687 cm/sec/sec, with an error of +/- 0.0663 g(R) = 979.9266 cm/sec/sec, with an error of +/- 0.0716 A difference of 0.1421 cm/sec/sec between right and left spinning. Its a startling finding, and also a very small amount of difference. To put it another perspective -- the total fall time for the capsule to cut through the three laser beams is about 0.53 seconds, and the right spinning gyroscope is slower by about 10E-5 seconds (10 micro seconds). It does not leave much room for experimental error. The experimenters examine, and rule out, a variety of possible causes of systematic error, including: tidal forces, precession and nutation (tilt from vertical), changes in the falling distance due to temperature differences, vertical and cross beam alignment of the lasers, and lifting due to air flow. Dr Hayasaka also puts forth a brief theoretical explanation of the apparent gravitational symmetry breaking. He believes it is due to the de Rham cohomology effect on a spinning object. Whatever that means. Regards, Robert Stirniman ____________________________________________ Thanks, Mr. Stirniman, for sending the above. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "How few understand the PHYSICAL lines of force! They will not see them, yet all the researches on the subject tend to confirm the views I put forth many years since. Thompson of Glasgow seems almost the only one who acknowledges them. He is perhaps the nearest to understanding what I meant. I am content to wait convinced as I am of the truth of my views." --- MICHAEL FARADAY "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood LITERALLY. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL "According to the general theory of relativity, space is equipped with PHYSICAL qualities; an aether in this sense therefore exists. Space without aether is unthinkable with respect to the general theory of relativity..." --- ALBERT EINSTEIN ".... the magnetic field consists of gyroscopic-type particles which are the mechanical essence of E=mc^2 and represent an orderly flow of kinetic energy." --- JOSEPH NEWMAN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 30 14:37:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA09994 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:37:37 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:37:37 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed Apr 30 14:37:34 1997 Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA09828 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:37:34 -0700 Received: by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA15209; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:37:02 -0400 Old-Date: 30 Apr 97 17:29:02 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970430212901_515664.456256_JHG83-20@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to arl-img-8.compuserve.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 GYROSCOPIC MOTIONS..... Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA09424; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:29:31 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnof07005; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA20046; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:09:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:11:34 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: GYROSCOPIC MOTIONS..... Resent-Message-ID: <"WY0pt1.0.8v4.CKxPp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com GYROSCOPIC MOTIONS..... Anti-Gravity Effects of a Clockwise Spinning Gyroscope Dr Hayasaka, and associates at Tohoku University, have conducted a second experiment which examines the weight difference between a right and left spinning gyroscope. A paper describing the experiment was presented at the International Conference of New Ideas in Natural Sciences, St. Petersburg Russia, June 1996. In Dr Hayasaka's first experiment (published in Physics Review Letters 63 pp 2701-2704, 1989), the weight difference between a right and left spinning gyroscope was measured on a balance scale. In the second experiment, the weight difference is determined by measuring differences in the fall time. Attempts were made to repeat Hayasaka's first experiment, each of which had a null result, and other papers were published crtical of his experimental method. See: Faller, et al, Phys Rev Lett 64, pp 825-826, 1990 Nitschke and Wilmarth, Phys Rev Lett 64, pp2115-2116, 1990 Salter, Nature, 343 pp 509-510, 1990 Quinn and Picard, Nature, 343 pp732-735, 1990 MacCallum, New Scientist, 17 Feb 1990, page 30 None the less, Hayasaka et al, have continued with a second experiment, presumably with funding provided by Matshushita. Interestingly, the experimental findings of the second experiment are very close to the amount of the first experiment. Also in the second paper, there is a reference to an earlier experiment done with falling gyroscopes which has a similar positive finding (done by T.S. Kemper but not published). =============================== "Possibility for the Existence of Anti-Gravity and the Complete Parity Breaking of Gravity; Evidence from Free-Fall Experiment of a Spinning Gyro." Authors: Hideo Hayasaka, Haruo Tanaka, Toshiyuki Hashida, and Tokushi Chubachi -- Faculty of Engineering, Tohoku University, Sendai 980, Japan, and Toshiki Sugiyama, Matsushita Communication Industrial Co. Ltd., Yokohama 226, Japan. Tel: 022-216-8139 Fax: 022-225-2263 email: hashida@rift.mech.tohoku.ac.jp Abstract: Free-fall experiment of a spinning gyro enclosed in a capsule has been conducted in order to investigate the effect of an object's spinning on the fall-acceleration. For ten runs of the fall-acceleration measurements, in which each run consists of the left, right and zero spinning about the vertical axis, it has been shown that the mean value of the right-spinning is significantly smaller than of the left-spinning at 18,000 rpm, with the latter being almost identical with of zero spinning. The result suggests that the right-spinning generates anti-gravity, and also that the parity (the reflection symmetry) of gravity breaks down completely. ================================================================= Summary of Experiment (by R. Stirniman): A gyroscope spinning at 18 thosand rpm is contained in a capsule and dropped through a vertical distance of about 170 cm. The fall of the capsule is accurately timed as it cuts through laser beams at three different heights. The experiment is conducted over a large number of trials at 10 different dates over the course of three months. A right spinning gyroscope (clockwise as viewed from the top) is found to fall more slowly than a left spinning gyroscope, or a non-spinning gyroscope. A left spinning and non-spinning gyroscope are found to fall at essentially the same rate. The average of the acceleration over all the experimental trials is determined to be: g(L) = 980.0687 cm/sec/sec, with an error of +/- 0.0663 g(R) = 979.9266 cm/sec/sec, with an error of +/- 0.0716 A difference of 0.1421 cm/sec/sec between right and left spinning. Its a startling finding, and also a very small amount of difference. To put it another perspective -- the total fall time for the capsule to cut through the three laser beams is about 0.53 seconds, and the right spinning gyroscope is slower by about 10E-5 seconds (10 micro seconds). It does not leave much room for experimental error. The experimenters examine, and rule out, a variety of possible causes of systematic error, including: tidal forces, precession and nutation (tilt from vertical), changes in the falling distance due to temperature differences, vertical and cross beam alignment of the lasers, and lifting due to air flow. Dr Hayasaka also puts forth a brief theoretical explanation of the apparent gravitational symmetry breaking. He believes it is due to the de Rham cohomology effect on a spinning object. Whatever that means. Regards, Robert Stirniman ____________________________________________ Thanks, Mr. Stirniman, for sending the above. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "How few understand the PHYSICAL lines of force! They will not see them, yet all the researches on the subject tend to confirm the views I put forth many years since. Thompson of Glasgow seems almost the only one who acknowledges them. He is perhaps the nearest to understanding what I meant. I am content to wait convinced as I am of the truth of my views." --- MICHAEL FARADAY "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood LITERALLY. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL "According to the general theory of relativity, space is equipped with PHYSICAL qualities; an aether in this sense therefore exists. Space without aether is unthinkable with respect to the general theory of relativity..." --- ALBERT EINSTEIN ".... the magnetic field consists of gyroscopic-type particles which are the mechanical essence of E=mc^2 and represent an orderly flow of kinetic energy." --- JOSEPH NEWMAN