From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 02:09:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA22140; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 02:08:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 02:08:53 -0700 Message-ID: <20000601090818.9679.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 02:08:18 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"bMiTZ.0.nP5.bWYDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: A Bad Attitude. A Very Bad Attitude Thursday, 01-Jun-2000 02:46:28 The patents for the Binary Resonant System have not been yet been applied for. An inventor like myself takes care to publish his work on the internet so that work can be referenced in any future patent claims as prior state of the art. It now seems that some clown like character has seen fit to synthesis their own compact version, which is not my intention. There are possibilities of subversion here. But those are all nearly impossible, nevertheless some3one with the password has erased most everything. I do not cotton to anyones extortion. Instead of stopping, the work its is progressing forward at an accelerated rate. Needle Glow Discharge Attempt. Shows ball discharge and scope form of coils magnetic field. http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/ball.html Scope Forms of Electrolysisor with MWO Electric Field Plates Attached This may proove the strange nature of these induced signals in a longitudinal form and shows the resonant reaction of a series water cell to the MWO fields. This appears unidirectional as a .2ms signal as Puharich has indicated http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/water.html Sincerely, HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 05:24:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29679; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 05:23:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 05:23:50 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> References: Conversation <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> with last message <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "FREE ENERGY" , Hlafonte@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Mike Connolly" Subject: Re: [FG]: Butch,reply to Stewart,why Newman got closest Date: (No, or invalid, date.) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ya8-w1.0.eF7.MNbDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com folks: regarding "the speed of pulses thru conductors", a thought experiment: i have a "LONG" length of wire in a big circle (558,000 MILES total length) with the ends far enough apart to touch the terminals of a 9-volt battery; i complete the circuit for 1 second; what happens and why/how? how does the battery KNOW the circuit has been completed in less than 1.5+ seconds if lightspeed is 186,000 miles per second (in a vacuum) disregard resistance in the wire thoughts please thanks Mike Connolly Hopper Tank Technical Sales Manager GRAIN SYSTEMS DIVISION THE GSI GROUP, INC. P.O. BOX 20 1004 East Illinois Street Assumption, IL USA 62510-0020 PH: 217.226.4421 FAX: 217.226.4420 U.S. FAX: 800.800.5329 E-MAIL: mconnolly@grainsystems.com ---------- > In a message dated 5/20/00 6:47:27 PM Central Daylight Time, srae@ihug.co.nz > writes: > STEWART, MY RESPONSES ARE IN UPPER CASE > > Hi Butch, > > > > You said : > > > > > > > > 1.I believe that Joe's theory of operation of his devices, if they > > > 4. Joe talked of wire length and breaking the circuit before the > > current > > > pulse got to the end of the wire. He never mentioned that the pulse > > flows in > > > both directions when the circuit is closed. Charges flow up the > > wires from > > > both positive and negative terminals when the circuit is closed and > > they > > > "meet" at half the wire length. The current pulse and current flow > > leaving > > > the negative terminal does not happen and just let the wire on the > > positive > > > terminal sit there with nothing going on in it. A backward > > progression of > > > ions starts from the positive terminal to meet with the pulse > > speeding at > > > near light speed in the other wire. Joe never mentioned this. I > > wonder if he > > > was aware of it? If he was not, then the timing for his devices > > would be off > > > by 50%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. What I would like to see is the building of two coils of VERY > > large size. > > > Each coil around 5 feet in diameter by 4 feet high with iron cores > > that could > > > be removed. The coils would be wired series and be in repulsion. > > This would > > > reduce the induction of each coil to a degree. The wire length would > > be very > > > long and timing the pulses to last only till the charges meet at > > half wire > > > length (where the two coils connect) should not be very hard to do. > > If large > > > diameter wire was used so low voltage could be used to produce large > > magnetic > > > fields between these coils, I wonder just what could be discovered > > from > > > experimenting. > > > > > Stuart Rae > > STEWART, I HAVE A FEW IDEAS I WOULD LIKE TO RUN BUY YOU, HAVE YOU GOT THE > TIME? > THANKS, > BUTCH > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 05:46:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02787; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 05:45:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 05:45:35 -0700 Message-ID: <20000601124452.9731.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 05:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Butch,reply to Stewart,why Newman got closest To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"i-eii.0.Oh.khbDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Mike Connolly wrote: > folks: > > regarding "the speed of pulses thru conductors", a > thought experiment: > > i have a "LONG" length of wire in a big circle > (558,000 MILES total length) > with the ends > > far enough apart to touch the terminals of a 9-volt > battery; i complete the > circuit for 1 second; > > what happens and why/how? how does the battery KNOW > the circuit has been > completed > > in less than 1.5+ seconds if lightspeed is 186,000 > miles per second (in a > vacuum) > > disregard resistance in the wire > > thoughts please Faraday had some thoughts when he found a middle arc before the outer ones on a triple gap scenario. perhaps attributed to displacement currents, seems to be a kind of riddle there. HDN > ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 06:02:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA07790; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 06:01:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 06:01:56 -0700 Message-ID: <20000601130124.7566.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.9] From: "colin cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 06:01:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"8IZz23.0.av1.3xbDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill asked: >Hey fnrg people, has anyone tried a full-blown grav-cap experiment? By >"full blown", I mean using 200 foils or more. Any negative results? I'm not sure if what I'm working on would qualify. I've just finished cutting several hundred squares of mylar for my dielectrics and am preparing to cut squares of aluminum for my plates. I'm going to use squares for two reasons, 1 I don't believe shape matters, 2 squares are a whole lot easier to cut (I've spent hours cutting waxpaper and aluminum rings with an x-acto knife stuck in a cheap compass). I will also alter the sequence of the elements of the stack in order to get a definite polarity bias. So my cap would not fit the purest defination of the "Gravity Capacitor." Whatta ya think? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 06:50:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22139; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 06:45:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 06:45:15 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01bfcbd0$f326b6e0$a01b16cb@rogerdw> From: "Roger Weichert" To: References: <20000601130124.7566.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:24:46 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"VwV5p2.0.qP5.gZcDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Go for it! and good luck. ----- Original Message ----- From: colin cain To: Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > Bill asked: > >Hey fnrg people, has anyone tried a full-blown grav-cap experiment? By > >"full blown", I mean using 200 foils or more. Any negative results? > > I'm not sure if what I'm working on would qualify. I've just finished > cutting several hundred squares of mylar for my dielectrics and am preparing > to cut squares of aluminum for my plates. I'm going to use squares for two > reasons, 1 I don't believe shape matters, 2 squares are a whole lot easier > to cut (I've spent hours cutting waxpaper and aluminum rings with an x-acto > knife stuck in a cheap compass). I will also alter the sequence of the > elements of the stack in order to get a definite polarity bias. So my cap > would not fit the purest defination of the "Gravity Capacitor." > > Whatta ya think? > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 07:55:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21401; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 07:49:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 07:49:18 -0700 Message-ID: <20000601144843.20482.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.21] From: "colin cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 07:48:43 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"WlNu.0.HE5.jVdDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I've put together several different caps in different configurations and used different power sources and as yet have received no results. I've used aluminum for plate material exclusively, mylar, polyethylene, wax paper, plexiglass and polystyrene for dielectrics. I've cut circles, rings and squares. I've stacked and restacked 6, 10, and 12 layer caps. Having had little or no success I'm skeptical anyone else has. This whole time I've been formulating a plan that addresses the experiences I've been having and the reading I've been doing. The latest design has 300 sheets of aluminum plates and 452 sheets of mylar dielectric. The end plates will be cut from plexi and the stack will be compressed with ¼" bolts sheathed in PVC tubing. Once this stack is complete we'll see if she flys! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 09:51:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA14534; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:49:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:49:33 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bfcbe9$869392a0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000601144843.20482.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:50:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"i62y-.0.qY3.SGfDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com One of the bits of information I have gleaned from somewhere in my gravity cap pursuits is that the center of a plate has little or no charge which may be of import in that the grav cap has a hole in the center. Another thing I found out is that we have 3 forces that are orthogonal(90 degrees to each other or right angles) to each other electric, magnetic, and gravity(ether). Some of this is supported in various places the MHD engine the Japanese built for a ship. Between any 2, if one is a wire for instance and you put electricity through it the magnetic circles it at right angles to the wire. With the MHD you had electric at 90 deg to magnetic and thrust was produced at 90 degrees to both. I wonder if the same sort of thing is happening here with the grav cap? I have also read that the force is small at normal type voltages 1/2000 lb for 300V with 10" x 10" plates, with same plates the force goes to 1/2 lb for 30,000 volts which is 1000 times the force for 100 times the voltage. Well now here is a kicker you go 1 more time 100 times voltage to 3,000,000 volts and you get 5,700 lbs of force I don't remember the plate separation. I am going to see if I can find that again. I am guessing the force was the force of attraction since essentially nobody knows about the grav cap. ----- Original Message ----- From: colin cain To: Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > I've put together several different caps in different configurations and > used different power sources and as yet have received no results. I've used > aluminum for plate material exclusively, mylar, polyethylene, wax paper, > plexiglass and polystyrene for dielectrics. I've cut circles, rings and > squares. I've stacked and restacked 6, 10, and 12 layer caps. Having had > little or no success I'm skeptical anyone else has. This whole time I've > been formulating a plan that addresses the experiences I've been having and > the reading I've been doing. The latest design has 300 sheets of aluminum > plates and 452 sheets of mylar dielectric. The end plates will be cut from > plexi and the stack will be compressed with ¼" bolts sheathed in PVC tubing. > Once this stack is complete we'll see if she flys! > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 10:52:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06593; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:46:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:46:25 -0700 Message-ID: <20000601174549.56616.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.189] From: "colin cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:45:49 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"f0Rbt.0.mc1.m5gDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >center of a plate has little or no charge which may >be of import in that the grav cap has a hole in the center. Hmmmmmmm, could be what ever flows needs the hole? I often make erroneous assumptions, and feeling gravity is not shielded by "normal" matter I tend to think it might pass through the stack itself. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 11:05:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11997; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:04:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:04:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:03:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <200006011614.MAA08713@world.std.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NH-xR2.0.9x2.JMgDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Grav-cap & Mr. "S" > Have you published these? I thought you were waiting for permission. I put the first couple of messages on freenrg-L long ago, and they're also at http://www.amasci.com/caps/capworks.txt The rest of his messages don't give much more info, but do convince me that he is a typical fringe-sci hobbyist (and therefore not a hoaxer? Yet a fringe-sci hobbyist would know how to pull off a very BELIEVABLE hoax...) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 11:05:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12217; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:04:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:04:38 -0700 Message-ID: <000401bfcbf4$11e5e100$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000601174549.56616.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:06:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"kkaAk3.0.n-2.sMgDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I would try without the hole first since you have lots of sheets and it is much simpler to make. You can cut material away but you can not add it easily. Just do 2 tests. ----- Original Message ----- From: colin cain To: Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > > >center of a plate has little or no charge which may > >be of import in that the grav cap has a hole in the center. > > Hmmmmmmm, could be what ever flows needs the hole? I often make erroneous > assumptions, and feeling gravity is not shielded by "normal" matter I tend > to think it might pass through the stack itself. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 11:28:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23808; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:25:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:25:17 -0700 Message-ID: <20000601182442.91178.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.189] From: "colin cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 11:24:42 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"-R2V03.0.vp5.CggDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Sam Garza" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? >Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:06:10 -0400 > >I would try without the hole first since you have lots of sheets and it is >much simpler to make. You can cut material away but you can not add it >easily. Just do 2 tests. I seem to have an abundance of mylar right now, the real trick is cutting the aluminum. When I was cutting rings, I could cut 30 rings of waxpaper in the same amount of time I could get one aluminum ring (about 45 min.). It will still be difficult to get aluminum squares with a tab, at least the mylar needs no tab. C ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 11:51:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00841; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:48:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:48:28 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <75.4e4680c.266809ef@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:48:15 EDT To: mconnolly@grainsystems.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"RBLGi1.0.rC.y_gDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:To Mike Connolly on pulse in wire Mike, I wrote a paper on this very subject 2 or 3 years ago. I wonder if it is in any archives? I will try to find it and repost it. It was titled thought experiment. If anyone has a copy of it please let me know. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 11:52:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02712; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:51:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:51:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:51:13 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: David Rosignoli cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: 2nd gravity-cap report In-Reply-To: <002501bfcb83$a4850ac0$ef9910cf@drosigno> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Qj6Gq3.0.7g.c2hDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, David Rosignoli wrote: > I wonder how Laviolette's Subquantum Kinetics could be applied to this? I > think he treats the ether as a fluid composed of different types of ethers. > He even remarks on the brown effect. I wonder if his approach could predict > this grav-cap motion. Just a thought. I've never looked into his work. However, his speculation that the B2 bomber being a gravity vehicle is interesting. If the shape and physical motion of charged air can cause gravity effects, then perhaps the hole in the center of the grav-cap is essential, since flows of + and - air would stream along the wax paper and flow over the edges of the hole. This is an electric current of course, and since it would flow down through a potential-drop, then energy would be lost. Conventional theory says that the energy would appear as heat. With a VDG as power supply at 1KV, the energy flow would only be a few tens of milliwatts at most. Suppose the energy goes into "aether exhaust" velocity rather than into heat. If energy/second is .01 = mV^2/2 per second, what is the acceleration of the capacitor? If the capactor mass is 1KG, then it only accelerates .14 meters/sec^2, lots less than 9.81 of earth's gravity. If the capacitor claims are real, then maybe the aether is a 4-dimensional flow, and the capacitor is like a "windmill blade" that sticks out into the flow. The energy supplied by the VDG machine would only be important in creating the correct conditions. The capacitor/aether interaction would give both antigravity and also act as an energy source. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 11:57:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06711; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:56:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:56:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:56:30 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? In-Reply-To: <20000601144843.20482.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NK-E_1.0.me1.X7hDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, colin cain wrote: > I've stacked and restacked 6, 10, and 12 layer caps. So it looks like "thin" capacitors give no thrust. What about "cubical" shaped capacitors? If the thrust does not build up in proportion to the number of plates, maybe several hundred plates are needed before the thrust becomes detectable. Or maybe the thrust is created by accidental features of the construction, and it's a matter of chance whether it works. That would be bad, unless someone gets lucky. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 12:41:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27142; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:40:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:40:29 -0700 Message-ID: <20000601193952.38922.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.189] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:39:52 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"NxDkm3.0._d6.imhDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill writes > >So it looks like "thin" capacitors give no thrust. What about "cubical" >shaped capacitors? If the thrust does not build up in proportion to the >number of plates, maybe several hundred plates are needed before the >thrust becomes detectable. Or maybe the thrust is created by accidental >features of the construction, and it's a matter of chance whether it >works. That would be bad, unless someone gets lucky. > The work shown by JLN seems to support thin caps working. I've made caps by laminating aluminum foil and mylar dielectric into a laminating pouch with some results. When stacking these packets the effect disappears. I've come to the conclusion that the dielectric effect of the doubled pouch material between the packets matches the dielectric effect of the mylar sheet, in effect canceling out the gravitational effect. I have begun to think there may be some lost information somewhere (page 4?) and that perhaps every other dielectric layer should only have 1 sheet. This would provide the polarity that seems to be missing and is the thought that has given rise to the cap I'm working on now. And by using squares of mylar and aluminum we'll find out if a cubic cap works. Cutting the aluminum and assembling the "full blown" cap will take a lot of time but I'm about to test another small 12 layer with alternating dielectrics as a "proof of concept". C ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 12:42:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA28054; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:41:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:41:20 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <7f.515fbdb.26681635@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:40:37 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_7f.515fbdb.26681635_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"6zHLk.0.Bs6.WnhDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: For your info. (perpendicular motor/gen) --part1_7f.515fbdb.26681635_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See attachment please, you should be able to figure this one out. It operates as a simple motor in one cycle and then overunity on two other cycles. 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[version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0006011604250C.01482@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA32278 Resent-Message-ID: <"e3pQ1.0.eu7.WwhDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: CD Grav-Cap? I've been toying with the idea of building a gravcap out of old CDs. While the CD's seem to be non-conductive (as read by my meter), they are quite conductive under HV. The arcing blows the aluminum coating right off of the plastic carrier. It's actually a beautiful site to see. Based on this, I was quickly able to remove the outter 1 inch of coating by placing the CD on a grounded coffee can and arcing from the edge of the CD. It seems like it would be a simple matter blow any specific shape pattern on the CD. A pair of CD's do hold a charge, but my capacitance meter is DOA, so I don't know the value. What did I do with all those AOL cds? Any thoughts? Charlie -- 10 is a Dark Blue 7 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 13:25:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16997; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:19:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:19:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3936C578.145ECC2D@info2000.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 14:20:08 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? References: <20000601182442.91178.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JTiW-3.0.O94.eLiDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Colin, How about cutting one corner of the mylar at a 45 degree angle? That would leave one corner of the AL sticking out for a tab. Alternate the mylar sheets so that the plus and minus AL tabs are on opposite corners. Good luck, Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 13:46:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30169; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:45:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:45:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:44:55 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? In-Reply-To: <20000601193952.38922.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CX2CL.0.oM7.EjiDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > I have begun to think there > may be some lost information somewhere (page 4?) and that perhaps every > other dielectric layer should only have 1 sheet. Someone supplied some "alternate plans", and these also showed some solid rings which had alternating diameter.. but no mention of alternating waxpaper thickness. And the "S" guy use the plans on my site as-is. But maybe if the effect is real, then alternating the dielectric thickness would make it far stronger. > Cutting the aluminum and assembling > the "full blown" cap will take a lot of time but I'm about to test another > small 12 layer with alternating dielectrics as a "proof of concept". I wonder if it would hurt to use copper or tin "tabs" on the aluminum rings, just so they could be soldered. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 13:48:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31792; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:48:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:48:03 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 16:44:02 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"xe_AG1.0.am7.3miDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Web site address for Butch's drawing LaFonte Research Site 1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 14:33:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20722; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:32:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:32:27 -0700 Message-ID: <20000601213151.5934.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.132] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 21:31:51 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"OuhX51.0.V35.gPjDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I would be the first to admit my ignorance how this device might work. Over this past weekend the thought struck me that perhaps the original device had been constructed in such a way that each capacitor element (plate,dielectric,plate) might have been insulated from the next (layer)with two layers of waxpaper. It was one of those times when you think the light comes on and you can see. This answers my polarity question and is something I haven't tried yet. >I wonder if it would hurt to use copper or tin "tabs" on the aluminum rings, just so they could be soldered.< Speaking of my ignorance, I have shied away from building plates from multiple pieces in the belief that it would be better to have the stack tight with the fewest possible air gaps between the plate and dielectric? I assume the copper or tin would be lain one end on the plate and the other sticking out of the stack. Would this not reduce the compression around the rest of the plate? I'm not even sure a tightly compressed stack is a good thing. It might be that the device requires the effects that might be produced by layering the pieces. Oh , even another parameter to explore. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 15:20:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08344; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:18:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:18:24 -0700 Message-ID: <001301bfcc17$825b5140$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000601193952.38922.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:19:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"V0FJX.0.H22.l4kDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This was my first test I was going to run after trying the method of equal spacing because I reasoned if Brown and JLN got the effect with one set so to speak then we need to treat the stack as a stack of sets. ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Cain To: Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > Bill writes > > > >So it looks like "thin" capacitors give no thrust. What about "cubical" > >shaped capacitors? If the thrust does not build up in proportion to the > >number of plates, maybe several hundred plates are needed before the > >thrust becomes detectable. Or maybe the thrust is created by accidental > >features of the construction, and it's a matter of chance whether it > >works. That would be bad, unless someone gets lucky. > > > The work shown by JLN seems to support thin caps working. I've made caps by > laminating aluminum foil and mylar dielectric into a laminating pouch with > some results. When stacking these packets the effect disappears. I've come > to the conclusion that the dielectric effect of the doubled pouch material > between the packets matches the dielectric effect of the mylar sheet, in > effect canceling out the gravitational effect. I have begun to think there > may be some lost information somewhere (page 4?) and that perhaps every > other dielectric layer should only have 1 sheet. This would provide the > polarity that seems to be missing and is the thought that has given rise to > the cap I'm working on now. And by using squares of mylar and aluminum > we'll find out if a cubic cap works. Cutting the aluminum and assembling > the "full blown" cap will take a lot of time but I'm about to test another > small 12 layer with alternating dielectrics as a "proof of concept". > > C > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 15:26:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12372; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01bfcc17$ea1322e0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <7f.515fbdb.26681635@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: For your info. (perpendicular motor/gen) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:22:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"NSr5p3.0.313.e7kDv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Excellent idea have you tried this? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 3:40 PM Subject: [FG]: For your info. (perpendicular motor/gen) > See attachment please, you should be able to figure this one out. It operates > as a simple motor in one cycle and then overunity on two other cycles. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 15:26:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11261; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:25:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:25:17 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01bfcc18$770bb2c0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000601213151.5934.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:26:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"k-lqI2.0.ql2.CBkDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Good thinking. ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Cain To: Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > I would be the first to admit my ignorance how this device might work. Over > this past weekend the thought struck me that perhaps the original device had > been constructed in such a way that each capacitor element > (plate,dielectric,plate) might have been insulated from the next (layer)with > two layers of waxpaper. It was one of those times when you think the light > comes on and you can see. This answers my polarity question and is something > I haven't tried yet. > > >I wonder if it would hurt to use copper or tin "tabs" on the aluminum > rings, just so they could be soldered.< > > Speaking of my ignorance, I have shied away from building plates from > multiple pieces in the belief that it would be better to have the stack > tight with the fewest possible air gaps between the plate and dielectric? I > assume the copper or tin would be lain one end on the plate and the other > sticking out of the stack. Would this not reduce the compression around the > rest of the plate? I'm not even sure a tightly compressed stack is a good > thing. It might be that the device requires the effects that might be > produced by layering the pieces. Oh , even another parameter to explore. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 15:47:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16140; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000401bfcc12$8df3b560$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000601182442.91178.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:44:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"r5DSa3.0.2y3.9PkDv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com That is one of the things I liked about tin foil is that you can tape 10 squares behind a printout of the plate and cut them 10 at a time with a sharp #11 x-acto knife. I tried 20 at a time with aluminum and that was too many. !0 would probably be do-able. ----- Original Message ----- From: colin cain To: Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > > > > >From: "Sam Garza" > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > >Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:06:10 -0400 > > > >I would try without the hole first since you have lots of sheets and it is > >much simpler to make. You can cut material away but you can not add it > >easily. Just do 2 tests. > > I seem to have an abundance of mylar right now, the real trick is cutting > the aluminum. When I was cutting rings, I could cut 30 rings of waxpaper in > the same amount of time I could get one aluminum ring (about 45 min.). It > will still be difficult to get aluminum squares with a tab, at least the > mylar needs no tab. > > C > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 18:15:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13229; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:12:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:12:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000601181445.250723ec@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 18:14:45 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Butch,reply to Stewart,why Newman got closest In-Reply-To: References: <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"c-rsL.0.YE3.QemDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Mike, Butch and all, At ???, Mike wrote: >folks: > >regarding "the speed of pulses thru conductors", a thought experiment: > >i have a "LONG" length of wire in a big circle (558,000 MILES total length) >with the ends > >far enough apart to touch the terminals of a 9-volt battery; i complete the >circuit for 1 second; > >what happens and why/how? how does the battery KNOW the circuit has been >completed The battery knows almost immediately, like (distance between battery electrodes)/(speed of EM) time later. Say the switch is at the battery negative terminal. When the switch is closed, electrons start to move from the battery negative electrode to the wire. At the short time later, electrons start to flow from the opposite end of the wire to the positive battery terminal. If this didn't happen, the battery as a unit would be accumulating a large + charge over this one second, and the wire a negative charge. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 18:15:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13157; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:12:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:12:48 -0700 Message-ID: <20000602011212.48600.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.103] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 01:12:12 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"f-3BA.0.SD3.FemDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Sam Garza" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? >Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:44:23 -0400 > >That is one of the things I liked about tin foil is that you can tape 10 >squares behind a printout of the plate and cut them 10 at a time with a >sharp #11 x-acto knife. I tried 20 at a time with aluminum and that was too >many. !0 would probably be do-able. I was attempting to cut Heavy Duty Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil, individual sheets with a new sharp #11 x-acto. It was very difficult to do without tearing aluminum, the blade dulled before finishing the second ring! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 18:45:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA24050; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:43:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:43:09 -0700 Message-ID: <39370E78.4480E07C@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:31:36 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? References: <20000602011212.48600.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W_KPx1.0.gt5.i4nDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com There must me a good reason but I can't think of it... Why don't you fold the AL foil so you are cutting multiple layers at a time? And use scissors? Colin Cain wrote: > >From: "Sam Garza" > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > >Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:44:23 -0400 > > > >That is one of the things I liked about tin foil is that you can tape 10 > >squares behind a printout of the plate and cut them 10 at a time with a > >sharp #11 x-acto knife. I tried 20 at a time with aluminum and that was too > >many. !0 would probably be do-able. > > I was attempting to cut Heavy Duty Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil, individual > sheets with a new sharp #11 x-acto. It was very difficult to do without > tearing aluminum, the blade dulled before finishing the second ring! > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 20:12:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA27664; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:10:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:10:33 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:09:56 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 Resent-Message-ID: <"lJCd52.0.5m6.eMoDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/1/00 6:45:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, antigrav@ihug.co.nz writes: > Why don't you fold the AL foil so you are cutting multiple layers at a time? > And > use scissors? > A set of good tin snips might work even better --------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 21:03:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13778; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:00:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:00:58 -0700 Message-ID: <00ec01bfcc46$f40357a0$335cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <39341D72.D002BA22@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: musings about the Hutchinson effect apparatus Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:06:05 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"duUfj.0.BN3.v5pDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > After a bit of thinking, and a bit more musing, it occurs to me that the > effects JH has been getting are remarkably similar in their nature to the Electronic-Voice > phenomenon. Essentially, the EVP setup provides an open-circuit > multi-oscillator and amplifier - which seems capable of receiving some sort of signals which at > least SOUND LIKE human speech. > > I've witnessed EVP with the apparatus INSIDE an enclosed solid-copper foil > Faraday screen that was grounded! It couldn't have been radio signals! > > I've also noticed that the EVP is accompanied by a drop in temperature, and an > increase in the static potiential - both classic hallmarks of Psi stuff. Have I mentioned Marshall Barnes on this list yet? I don't know a whole lot about him because he's not ready to go public with some of his work quite yet, but in the course of investigating the Montauk Project and the Incunabula Files he claims to have developed some interesting devices. For instance, he says that he connected a wire from his forehead to an audio amplifier, and connected the output to the RF input of a TV, and was able to produce some sort of anomalous patterns on the screen while playing with the tuning and the amplifier gain. Then, he turned on an AM radio and started tuning it while concentrating on the patterns on the TV, and got anomalous sounds from the radio. He's a bit secretive about what happened next, but apparently as he practiced tuning the apparatus he eventually started receiving TV and radio signals from not only too far away to have arrived normally, but from other frequency bands as well. My personal opinion is that he has constructed a Sutton Black Hole Antenna, but with psychotronic instead of automatic tuning. But he also says that his life has been one synchronicity after another since he started working on it, and he hints that someone in another universe is trying to contact him to collaborate on opening a physical connection. Perhaps the most interesting part of his story, however, is that he set out to *debunk* the Philadelphia/Montauk mythos, and still doesn't believe most of it! I guess it's like the discovery of the structure of benzene: just because there's no such thing as a hoop snake, it doesn't mean that you can't dream of one. Except, I guess, since there's also no reason there *couldn't* be a hoop snake, there probably *is* one in some other universe :-) -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 21:03:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13836; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:01:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:01:02 -0700 Message-ID: <00ed01bfcc46$f5084480$335cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <20000530.210753.-328995.3.tv@juno.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Hutchison, The Poltergeist Machine Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:39:36 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"AhGV12.0.3O3.z5pDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > This author does NOT believe the effects are due to spirits or ghost or > PK but to an electromagnetic phenomena > of an unknown nature. Maybe the PK is, also! Conventional poltergeist cases bear little resemblance to a classical haunting in that there is no apparent intelligence behind them, just objects flying around pseudo-randomly. There is also that most dangerous of paranormal phenomena, the so-called "fire poltergeist", in which small flames spontaneously erupt from the walls of a house, usually with increasing frequency until the victim is unable to douse them all and the structure burns down. The seminal work on this, and related events, is "Mysterious Fires and Lights" by Vincent Gaddis. He notes the resemblance of some accounts of the appearance of spontaneous combustion to electrical corona discharges. It is unfortunate that he was writing before the appearance of Tom Bearden on the scene. I feel that the whole phenomenon could be explained by scalar interferometry, but we just don't know what all the field sources are, yet! (Consider, for example, the massive plasma waves from the sun, apparently modulated in some unknown way by planetary geometry as discovered by that engineer at RCA in the `20s or `30s.) -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 1 21:03:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13744; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:00:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:00:56 -0700 Message-ID: <00eb01bfcc46$f2d6be80$335cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Fw: [FG]: musings about the Hutchinson effect apparatus Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:30:02 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"LwqWX3.0.fM3.t5pDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > A review of equipment in his lab was published in > > "Electric Spacecraft Journal" > Issue #9 > Aug 16th, 1993 > > which will cause you to scratch your head for > a substantial period of time. I guess I understand > the "PK" claim, given the range of stuff shown > and the lack of any clear cut experiments. > > One thought: some of the samples shown in the movie > could have been generated by intense electromagnetic > discharge, the text shows a few pulse generator > and capacitor arrangements that were pretty impressive. There is a layout of the lab and a block diagram of the connections between the apparatus in David Hatcher Childress's "Time Travel Handbook". He doesn't say where he got it. I'll see what I can do about scanning it later. -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 00:04:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07063; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 00:01:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 00:01:59 -0700 Message-ID: <39375401.CB8BCCFF@astra.ukf.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:28:17 +0100 From: Gavin Dingley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: musings about the Hutchinson effect apparatus References: <39341D72.D002BA22@earthlink.net> <00ec01bfcc46$f40357a0$335cadd1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XpNho3.0.Ck1.ZlrDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jim, Marshall Barnes, is that not the guy who investigated the claims made by the character Rinehart in Berlitz book on the Philadelphia Experiment? As I remember Barnes suggested that the air around he ship was ionized resulting in a large reflective index. This, in his view, was how the ship became optically invisible. The only problem I found with this explanation is that in the original Rinehart interview in the Berlitz book the former clearly stated that they were trying to stop the ionization of the air. Anyway, I thought Barnes was an investigator, not an alt scientist. Regards, Gavin Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: > > After a bit of thinking, and a bit more musing, it occurs to me that the > > effects JH has been getting are remarkably similar in their nature to the > Electronic-Voice > > phenomenon. Essentially, the EVP setup provides an open-circuit > > multi-oscillator and amplifier - which seems capable of receiving some sort > of signals which at > > least SOUND LIKE human speech. > > > > I've witnessed EVP with the apparatus INSIDE an enclosed solid-copper foil > > Faraday screen that was grounded! It couldn't have been radio signals! > > > > I've also noticed that the EVP is accompanied by a drop in temperature, and > an > > increase in the static potiential - both classic hallmarks of Psi stuff. > > Have I mentioned Marshall Barnes on this list yet? I don't know a whole lot > about him because he's not ready to go public with some of his work quite yet, > but in the course of investigating the Montauk Project and the Incunabula Files > he claims to have developed some interesting devices. For instance, he says > that he connected a wire from his forehead to an audio amplifier, and connected > the output to the RF input of a TV, and was able to produce some sort of > anomalous patterns on the screen while playing with the tuning and the amplifier > gain. Then, he turned on an AM radio and started tuning it while concentrating > on the patterns on the TV, and got anomalous sounds from the radio. He's a bit > secretive about what happened next, but apparently as he practiced tuning the > apparatus he eventually started receiving TV and radio signals from not only too > far away to have arrived normally, but from other frequency bands as well. My > personal opinion is that he has constructed a Sutton Black Hole Antenna, but > with psychotronic instead of automatic tuning. But he also says that his life > has been one synchronicity after another since he started working on it, and he > hints that someone in another universe is trying to contact him to collaborate > on opening a physical connection. Perhaps the most interesting part of his > story, however, is that he set out to *debunk* the Philadelphia/Montauk mythos, > and still doesn't believe most of it! I guess it's like the discovery of the > structure of benzene: just because there's no such thing as a hoop snake, it > doesn't mean that you can't dream of one. Except, I guess, since there's also > no reason there *couldn't* be a hoop snake, there probably *is* one in some > other universe :-) > > -- > "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine > by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction > was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity > because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 01:32:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA22349; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 01:26:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 01:26:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:26:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Mathias Bage X-Sender: mathias@kel.brace.dom To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tGu_z1.0.5T5.4_sDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Anyone remember this excellent suggestion by Mitchell Jones (Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:34:57 -0600): > ***{I'm not sure why the fixation on using tin foil, which is hard to > obtain nowadays. Why not aluminum? (If you insist on tin foil, check out > http://www.reax.com/docs/foil_metal.html.) In any case, once you have the > foil you need, I should think the construction of this gadget ought to be > pretty easy: you simply use scissors to cut 400 square sheets of foil, > clamp them tightly between two thin sheets of plywood, draw the pattern you > want on the plywood, and use a scroll saw, jigsaw, etc., to cut out the > pattern. When you cut through both pieces of plywood, you will also cut > through the 400 sheets of foil that are clamped between them. The rest is > easy, analogous to putting together a Dagwood sandwich. You insert > alternating dielectric sheets, cut a top and bottom board, drill holes, > insert bolts, clamp the whole thing together, and hook it up. Not much to > it, really. (Again, real wax paper is hard to obtain nowadays. I would use > sheet plastic for the dielectric.) In any case, Bill Beaty seemed > sufficiently excited by this idea in his original post that he ought to > have one almost done by now. I'm going to use it, anyway. /Mathias From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 02:38:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA00845; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:36:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:36:51 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: musings about the Hutchinson effect apparatus Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:50:52 -0400 Message-ID: <20000602095052093.AAC148@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"UoiaO3.0.6D.o0uDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Have I mentioned Marshall Barnes on this list yet? I don't know a whole lot >about him because he's not ready to go public with some of his work quite yet, >but in the course of investigating the Montauk Project and the Incunabula Files >he claims to have developed some interesting devices. For instance, he says >that he connected a wire from his forehead to an audio amplifier, and connected >the output to the RF input of a TV, and was able to produce some sort of >anomalous patterns on the screen while playing with the tuning and the amplifier >gain. Then, he turned on an AM radio and started tuning it while concentrating >on the patterns on the TV, and got anomalous sounds from the radio. He's a bit >secretive about what happened next, but apparently as he practiced tuning the >apparatus he eventually started receiving TV and radio signals from not only too >far away to have arrived normally, but from other frequency bands as well. My >personal opinion is that he has constructed a Sutton Black Hole Antenna, but >with psychotronic instead of automatic tuning. Hi there, This is interesting stuff, and I've seen something similar myself. Are there any web refs for Barnes, or this Sutton Black Hole Antenna? Thanks, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 05:08:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA24567; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:05:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:05:54 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: 2nd gravity-cap report Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:19:55 -0400 Message-ID: <20000602121955843.AAC273@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"7yD9-1.0.k_5.WCwDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Billb writes: >I've never looked into his work. However, his speculation that the B2 >bomber being a gravity vehicle is interesting. >From what I have gathered from the rumour mill, the B2 also has radar reflection/absorbtion capabilities that go hand in hand with some of the things that we've been seeing here. What is interesting is that one source mentioned that the body of the plane was a composite with a special texture that obviated the need for the type of panels that Jean-Louis and the Roth group have made. If the texture of wings were able to produce Von Karmen vortex street effect, and there were something about the composite material itself that lent itself to ion production, then you may well see not only a significant improvement in speed or drag reduction, but also some extra lift as well as the radar jamming ability. If the shape and physical >motion of charged air can cause gravity effects, then perhaps the hole in >the center of the grav-cap is essential, since flows of + and - air would >stream along the wax paper and flow over the edges of the hole. This is >an electric current of course, and since it would flow down through a >potential-drop, then energy would be lost. Are you sure that you don't mean that this is an electrostatic current? Conventional theory says that >the energy would appear as heat. With a VDG as power supply at 1KV, the >energy flow would only be a few tens of milliwatts at most. Suppose the >energy goes into "aether exhaust" velocity rather than into heat. If >energy/second is .01 = mV^2/2 per second, what is the acceleration of the >capacitor? If the capactor mass is 1KG, then it only accelerates .14 >meters/sec^2, lots less than 9.81 of earth's gravity. The "aether exhaust" is a good phrase that I wish I had thought of. With electrostatics, and especially ball lightning, I think that there are avenues for the transduction of energy forms into other forms that may include aether exhaust, and would show itself as gravity shielding. It could manifest itself in other ways as well (see below). Several years ago, I would not have thought this, and would have thought that you were too far out there Bill, but I can see a number of possibilities now that I couldn't before. >If the capacitor claims are real, then maybe the aether is a 4-dimensional >flow, and the capacitor is like a "windmill blade" that sticks out into >the flow. The energy supplied by the VDG machine would only be important >in creating the correct conditions. The capacitor/aether interaction >would give both antigravity and also act as an energy source. Envisioning 4 dimensional flows is still difficult for me, but it would explain some of the Hutchinson related anomolies, such as energy dissappearance and reappearance. Where else could it go except for somewhere else in time? We may be talking apples and elephants here, but the subject matter is pretty surreal to begin with, so maybe not. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 05:44:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01224; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:42:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:42:19 -0700 Message-ID: <20000602124146.65932.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.101] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:41:46 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"O3nh53.0.rI.hkwDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Gravity Cap Cutting the Foil I cut my waxpaper rings with an x-acto knife stuck in one of those dime store pencil compasses and stepped straight from that to cutting my aluminum the same way. I was thinking that the edges needed to be smooth as possible (may not be the case). I've used a paper cutter to cut some aluminum squares (works much like sissors) but then I get a kind of "bead" on the edge. The bandsaw also makes a slightly ragged edge (may not be a bad thing) that I thought might lead to detrimental losses/arcing, etc. This is all very much trial and error (mostly error) for me as I'm learning much of what I need to know on the fly. If you were to cut the foils on a bandsaw, how would you cut the hole? A hole saw cuts in the same plane as the foil and has a tendency to pull and tear rather than make a clean cut. The bandsaw cuts across the plane of the foil and makes a slightly jagged edge. Oh ..... how about a roto-zip? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 06:52:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25479; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:49:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:49:50 -0700 Message-ID: <006301bfcc9a$b8419980$ac1b16cb@rogerdw> From: "Roger Weichert" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:29:06 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ca3Iv.0.0E6.zjxDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com G'day everyone. Can I be rude here and throw a spanner in the works :) I just realised that alternate layers of metallic and organic material make up an orgone accumulator. Perhaps there is a correlation here and for that reason you may be better off to stick with wax paper rather than using some sort of plastic insulator. I have recently read the book " Experimenters Guide to the Joe Cell" by Alex Schiffer where he claims that the Joe Cell is an orgone accumulator. But the relevant point here is that in his list of the properties of orgone, in part #12 " .... mankind has created synthetic materials in recent times that can greatly stop the penetration of Orgone. I am talking about polymers." #26 "Torsion (Orgone) fields can be screened by aluminium. This allows the use of aluminium coated mirrors, or highly polished aluminium to reflect our Orgone (Torsion) field" If Alex is right about Orgone being the souce of the energy supply for the Joe Cell, I see no reason why that may not have been the source for the Hendershot Generator. No wonder mine never worked... I used modern insulators, polymers etc instead of bees wax etc ----- Original Message ----- From: Mathias Bage To: Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > > Anyone remember this excellent suggestion by Mitchell Jones > (Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:34:57 -0600): > > > ***{I'm not sure why the fixation on using tin foil, which is hard to > > obtain nowadays. Why not aluminum? (If you insist on tin foil, check out > > http://www.reax.com/docs/foil_metal.html.) In any case, once you have the > > foil you need, I should think the construction of this gadget ought to be > > pretty easy: you simply use scissors to cut 400 square sheets of foil, > > clamp them tightly between two thin sheets of plywood, draw the pattern you > > want on the plywood, and use a scroll saw, jigsaw, etc., to cut out the > > pattern. When you cut through both pieces of plywood, you will also cut > > through the 400 sheets of foil that are clamped between them. The rest is > > easy, analogous to putting together a Dagwood sandwich. You insert > > alternating dielectric sheets, cut a top and bottom board, drill holes, > > insert bolts, clamp the whole thing together, and hook it up. Not much to > > it, really. (Again, real wax paper is hard to obtain nowadays. I would use > > sheet plastic for the dielectric.) In any case, Bill Beaty seemed > > sufficiently excited by this idea in his original post that he ought to > > have one almost done by now. > > I'm going to use it, anyway. > > /Mathias > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 07:05:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA31261; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:03:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:03:11 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01bfcc9b$82940880$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:04:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"XZkzS2.0.He7.UwxDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The link is not found http://www.reax.com/docs/foil_metal.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Mathias Bage To: Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 4:26 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? > > Anyone remember this excellent suggestion by Mitchell Jones > (Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:34:57 -0600): > > > ***{I'm not sure why the fixation on using tin foil, which is hard to > > obtain nowadays. Why not aluminum? (If you insist on tin foil, check out > > http://www.reax.com/docs/foil_metal.html.) In any case, once you have the > > foil you need, I should think the construction of this gadget ought to be > > pretty easy: you simply use scissors to cut 400 square sheets of foil, > > clamp them tightly between two thin sheets of plywood, draw the pattern you > > want on the plywood, and use a scroll saw, jigsaw, etc., to cut out the > > pattern. When you cut through both pieces of plywood, you will also cut > > through the 400 sheets of foil that are clamped between them. The rest is > > easy, analogous to putting together a Dagwood sandwich. You insert > > alternating dielectric sheets, cut a top and bottom board, drill holes, > > insert bolts, clamp the whole thing together, and hook it up. Not much to > > it, really. (Again, real wax paper is hard to obtain nowadays. I would use > > sheet plastic for the dielectric.) In any case, Bill Beaty seemed > > sufficiently excited by this idea in his original post that he ought to > > have one almost done by now. > > I'm going to use it, anyway. > > /Mathias > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 07:09:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01860; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:07:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:07:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3937BF8E.4E87F764@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:07:10 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: 2nd gravity-cap report References: <20000602121955843.AAC273@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6ug_Q.0.yS.F-xDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael T Huffman wrote: >The "aether exhaust" is a good phrase that I wish I had thought of. Add another: aether tunnelling (see below) > electrostatics, and especially ball lightning, I think that there are > avenues for the transduction of energy forms into other forms that may > include aether exhaust, and would show itself as gravity shielding. It > could manifest itself in other ways as well (see below). Several years ago, > I would not have thought this, and would have thought that you were too far > out there Bill, but I can see a number of possibilities now that I couldn't > before. > Odds are very good that some of these mechanisms open a tunnel, thru the normal flux, taping the aetheric current, or allowing it to flow into our normal space. Best description that fit all the classical "electric" OU devices, like Sweet's VTA.. ..remember? "Cold current", "negative energy", "anti-electricity"..everyone has been describing "Aetheric Current"...and it FLOWS thru the tunnel made by such devices. > Envisioning 4 dimensional flows is still difficult for me, but it would > explain some of the Hutchinson related anomolies, such as energy > dissappearance and reappearance. Where else could it go except for > somewhere else in time? We may be talking apples and elephants here, but > the subject matter is pretty surreal to begin with, so maybe not. Dont let the 4D part of this mechanism cloud your thinking! Here, wrap your mind around this: Super-String Theory postulates 10 as the upper-lim on dimensionality, I claim there must be AT LEAST 12 (imagine a cube shape made of sticks; each one of those stick represents ONE DIMENSION.,,now imagine a hypercube! ;) ) dimensions and maybe a lot more. Some of those dimensional metrics you understand instantly, and are comfortable with - like height, width and depth. Now time is a little less familar, and it seems to most of us that it's only flowing in one direction...but think of that 'stick cube'.. You can begine to visualize that Aether ITSELF is the basic building block... ..Some Aether is polarized [thusly]...and forms nothing but spatial dimensionality. ..hence there's at least 3 KINDS of spatial aether. Then there's Aether which is polarized [like this] and forms (at least a part of what we think of as) Time..so there may be at least 2 KINDS of temporal aether...Then there's aether that has some other qualities [*,*1,*2...] and it's responsible for (1-N) expressions we call ENERGY..are you getting the hang of this?? By postulating that the Aether is really a component-Atomos (truly indivisible) you can imagine coorelations between the macro-dimensional artifacts that these building blocks can produce, and the effects at the observer level. For example: Matter is really just energy, tied up in a very special sort of series of knots...some of that matter, when exposed to circulating electric currents produces magnetic fields.. Is it therefore such a stretch of the imagination to suppose that given the correct assembly of various sorts of matter, and some specific forms of energy that we might open a tunnel or somesuch? This breathes new culpability into the claims of at least one discounted person, who has been claiming that an unknown element (115) when exposed to tacyon energies causes a gravitational distortion! --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 07:14:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04914; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:12:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:12:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3937C0B9.978D7C3C@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:12:09 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity Cap Cutting the Foil References: <20000602124146.65932.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oCL6C.0.hC1.v2yDv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Colin Cain wrote: > > Oh ..... how about a roto-zip? > On 1/8th" aluminum sheet it leaves a bit of a burr. Why not just build a punch-die? for foils it ought to work great! (ok..just tried a 3 hole punch on some kitchen foil.. works good!) Now scale it up. -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 10:51:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28376; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:50:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:50:49 -0700 Message-ID: <20000602175012.23854.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.102] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:50:12 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"VSKs03.0.Dx6.vF_Dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Gravity Cap - "C" In the success report from "C" dated 5-2-00 there is no mention of a power supply, was one given? "S" says VDG, the webpage says "Charge with DC only. Use strong battery, or series of strong batteries, such as automotive, lantern, etc." I've used several different supplies from the battery in my truck to a gas laser power supply to no avail. Also "C" says he's used different dielectrics and metals, is there any word on if the plates were made from pieces or one piece? I wonder if the material used to silkscreen circuit boards would work for plate material? Just silkscreen the plate onto the mylar and go! What about insulating the stack with polyurethane? Wax? Can Carbon fiber plates be used, can aluminum window screen material be used for plates? Too Many Questions, Too Little Time ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 10:56:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32686; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:55:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:55:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:55:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Mathias Bage X-Sender: mathias@kel.brace.dom To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? In-Reply-To: <006301bfcc9a$b8419980$ac1b16cb@rogerdw> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Jjkr73.0.X-7.lK_Dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Roger Weichert wrote: > G'day everyone. > > Can I be rude here and throw a spanner in the works :) I just realised > that alternate layers of metallic and organic material make up an orgone > accumulator. Perhaps there is a correlation here and for that reason you > may be better off to stick with wax paper rather than using some sort of > plastic insulator. In The Orgone Accumulator Handbook by James DeMeo, it's stated that many polymers are OK to use. > > I have recently read the book " Experimenters Guide to the Joe Cell" by > Alex Schiffer where he claims that the Joe Cell is an orgone accumulator. > But the relevant point here is that in his list of the properties of orgone, > in part #12 " .... mankind has created synthetic materials in recent > times that can greatly stop the penetration of Orgone. I am talking about > polymers." > > #26 "Torsion (Orgone) fields can be screened by aluminium. This allows > the use of aluminium coated mirrors, or highly polished aluminium to reflect > our Orgone (Torsion) field" This corresponds to what DeMeo writes: don't use aluminium in orgone accumulators. Don't know about tin, though. Gotta check when I get home. >[snip] /Mathias From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 11:03:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07595; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:02:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:02:39 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6d.49a3666.26695041@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:00:33 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"vzv_-2.0.Ws1._Q_Dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Steel wire, need research results, if any Has anyone done any coil testing or research with steel wire or any wire made of a metal that is magnetic? Very important. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 11:26:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15251; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:25:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:25:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3937FBC5.99E31F05@netzero.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:24:05 -0700 From: blue_eyes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 3 FREENRG Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity Cap Cutting the Foil References: <20000602124146.65932.qmail@hotmail.com> <3937C0B9.978D7C3C@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RS5cf1.0.Ck3.Fm_Dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks, Years ago, when I was fabricating parts for scientific instruments and assembling the units, I was given the task of making a bunch of 4" diameter rings from kitchen type aluminum foil. I tried the punch and die approach and found it to be a headache. The thinner the material, the closer the fit needs to be (less clearance space) between the die and punch and then, of course, the more accurate and solid the alignment has to be. Going in the other direction, punching an 1/8" stack of sheets of aluminum foil is quite different than punching a single sheet of 1/8" aluminum. After several days of fiddling around, I settled on a method I call the clamp and trim method. I made two rings out of 1/4 inch thick plastic that were exactly the size of the desired aluminum ring. I cut foil into squares that were a tad bigger than the rings. I sandwiched a foil square between the plastic disks (which were then aligned and clamped together with spring clamps) and slid a razor blade around the outer diameter of the plastic disks to trim the excess aluminum. I slid the blade around the inner diameter of the disks to trim the excess aluminum from the "hole". As I recall, if the inner and outer edges of the plastic were smooth and accurate enough, I could trim 9 or 10 sheets of foil at a time without having to "clean up" the edges of the foil. Stick with it, David eks1 wrote: > > Colin Cain wrote: > > > > > Oh ..... how about a roto-zip? > > > > On 1/8th" aluminum sheet it leaves a bit of a burr. Why not just build a > punch-die? > for foils it ought to work great! (ok..just tried a 3 hole punch on some kitchen > foil.. > works good!) Now scale it up. > > -- > --- > "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon > > |-----------------------| > | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. > |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" > Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 12:29:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29005; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005801bfccc8$0ffc9440$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <6d.49a3666.26695041@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Steel wire, need research results, if any Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:23:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"gvRpJ1.0.457.db0Ev"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I think you could be on to something. Check powering it both ways electric and magnetic, the coil that is. Magnetically powered I would expect an electric field to be generated perpendicular to the wire, for individual wires. You should have an electric coil instead of a magnetic coil i.e. it will generate a powerful electric field. Even more awesome in some unknown way may be a bifilar wound coil. A simple bifilar coil can be made by folding the insulated iron wire in the middle and wrapping it so that the wires next to each other are carrying current in opposite directions so that the field circling the wires are helping each other instead of opposing each other this can be done even on multiple layers if you are careful in aligning the wires. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 2:00 PM Subject: [FG]: Steel wire, need research results, if any > Has anyone done any coil testing or research with steel wire or any wire > made of a metal that is magnetic? Very important. > Thanks, > Butch > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 18:09:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18895; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:06:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:06:57 -0700 Message-ID: <005001bfccf7$c5717a00$b45cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <39341D72.D002BA22@earthlink.net> <00ec01bfcc46$f40357a0$335cadd1@default> <39375401.CB8BCCFF@astra.ukf.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: musings about the Hutchinson effect apparatus Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:47:02 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"uzvEJ.0.lc4.me5Ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Marshall Barnes, is that not the guy who investigated the claims made by the > character Rinehart in Berlitz book on the Philadelphia Experiment? Yes. > As I remember > Barnes suggested that the air around he ship was ionized resulting in a large > reflective index. This, in his view, was how the ship became optically invisible. > The only problem I found with this explanation is that in the original Rinehart > interview in the Berlitz book the former clearly stated that they were trying to > stop the ionization of the air. I don't remember it that way. I guess I'll have to read it again sometime. > Anyway, I thought Barnes was an investigator, not an alt scientist. That's the bizarre part about it! I thought so too, while he was working strictly on the Philadelphia Experiment. But then he started working on the Montauk Project, which is probably mostly a hoax, and the Incunabula Files, which I certainly thought was a hoax from the very beginning, and Barnes says the authors admitted to him that it was. But somewhere along the line he apparently decided that even if the stories were false, the IDEAS in them could be true! (The Incunabula Files, for those not familiar with them, are a body of subversive / surrealist literature alleging the existence of a group who travelled to parallel universes through a combination of electromagnetic biofeedback technology and sex magick. They claim that well-known physicist Nick Herbert is aware of the process. See www.incunabula.org for the latest incarnation of the story.) -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 18:09:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19241; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:07:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:07:17 -0700 Message-ID: <005201bfccf7$d1da5b40$b45cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:04:16 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"JsoAR1.0.Ni4.3f5Ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > I have recently read the book " Experimenters Guide to the Joe Cell" by > > Alex Schiffer where he claims that the Joe Cell is an orgone accumulator. > > But the relevant point here is that in his list of the properties of orgone, > > in part #12 " .... mankind has created synthetic materials in recent > > times that can greatly stop the penetration of Orgone. I am talking about > > polymers." > > > > #26 "Torsion (Orgone) fields can be screened by aluminium. This allows > > the use of aluminium coated mirrors, or highly polished aluminium to reflect > > our Orgone (Torsion) field" > > > This corresponds to what DeMeo writes: don't use aluminium in orgone > accumulators. Don't know about tin, though. Gotta check when I get home. I don't have DeMeo's book, but I had always heard that aluminum would produce PHYSICAL effects, just not BENEFICIAL effects on a biological system. -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 18:09:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19107; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:07:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:07:05 -0700 Message-ID: <005101bfccf7$cb45c940$b45cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <20000602095052093.AAC148@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Subject: Re: [FG]: musings about the Hutchinson effect apparatus Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:01:16 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"QStG91.0.Ag4.te5Ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > This is interesting stuff, and I've seen something similar myself. Are > there any web refs for Barnes, or this Sutton Black Hole Antenna? Thanks, Barnes mostly seems to release his information on obscure talk shows and to a circle of friends who occasionally mention it on the net. There's no well-organized source for his research that I'm aware of. He has published one book which is hard to find -- I haven't seen it myself! There are, however, three web chats that he did archived at http://users.cihost.com/ata/chat99.htm The Black Hole Antenna, on the other hand, is well-documented. See http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05296866__ and http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05311198__ for example. -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 19:10:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25580; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00d701bfcd02$abaf8a20$d57156c3@avd> From: "Aris" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: cheap hi-voltage, $4.50 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 04:07:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"eGEpe3.0.WF6.VZ6Ev"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > use it for all sorts of "static electricity" experiments What kind f experiments? > All elect. also currently has a very cheap laser pointer: $6.50 Where do u use tis for? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 19:10:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25538; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00d901bfcd02$ad4a0040$d57156c3@avd> From: "Aris" To: References: <20000527195340359.AAA245@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Subject: Re: [FG]: I Challenge the group... Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 04:17:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"qQjT83.0.tE6.OZ6Ev"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com we'll > be glad to help with whatever you have going if we can. You're so gentile! > Knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 20:49:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24903; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:48:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:48:12 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <55.6b8a6e7.2669d9cc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:47:24 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Steel wire, need research results, if any To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 Resent-Message-ID: <"l5nuG2.0.r46.x_7Ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/2/00 11:03:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: > Has anyone done any coil testing or research with steel wire or any wire > made of a metal that is magnetic? Very important. > Thanks, > Butch I agree. I have been intending to do some testing but have never gotten around to it because of the difficulty in finding insulated magnetic wire. For the experiments I am most interested in bare wire is not practical. If you are aware of a good insulated wire source I would be interested. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 2 20:52:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30804; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:51:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:51:15 -0700 From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: <73.3d20458.2669da8f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:50:39 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 101 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA30486 Resent-Message-ID: <"s3QT52.0.fW7.o28Ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Something to mull over. A family member sent this to me. I am at a loss for words. There are few issues today that have sparked the controversy inspired by chemtrails. It's a near-global event. Three main theories are circulating to account for the spraying: 1. weather modification 2. mass depopulation 3. mass inoculation Frankly, Stan and I didn't know where to stand on this issue several years ago as there was too little factual information though we leaned toward the inoculation theory. This was during the time when our armed forces were being inoculated for anthrax and a holy furor ensued. We had, and still do, have a hard time believing our government is out to exterminate the citizens. At least part of the spraying seems to be for weather modification and/or neutralizing global warming effects according to recent interviews with Will Thomas. He further purports that this weather mod is being conducted due to pressure from insurance companies who see financial ruin on their horizon with continued high disaster-related claims. The catch? These weather modification tactics are further depleting the ozone hole and enhancing global warming. It is a short-term, "band-aid" answer with even worse consequences. It appears there are two types of spraying conducted which would help account for several perceived scenarios. For those to whom this information is relatively new, here are some basic _generalizations_. 1. Chemtrails, as opposed to contrails, take three or more hours to dissipate. Regular contrails disappear in about 20 minutes. 2. Chemtrails tend to look flat. 3. Another feature different from ordinary contrails is that mature chemtrails display a vertical curtain of fall-off. 4. Intense chemtrail spraying is done in tic-tac-toe, "X" and grids patterns. 5. Spraying is generally done by these planes: KC-10A, KC-135 (707) and C-130 for the high altitude spraying and C-130 turboprop aircraft for the low-level spraying. The KC-10A is a three-engine aircraft and would normally leave three parallel contrails in its wake. The KC-135 is a smaller, four-engine aircraft that would typically display four parallel contrail lines. When used during chemtrail missions; however, these aircraft lay down only a single, thick, billowy chemtrail while simultaneously displaying no normal contrails. There are other planes which have been used in the spraying, but these are the main ones. 6. Two types of spraying are done: high altitude meaning 20,000 feet and above and low altitude spraying each with seemingly different purposes. 7. Low level spraying contains molds and fungi and produces varying symptoms including: * headaches worse than migraines * heartburn * heart conditions * heart arrest, on the _rare_ occasion * flu-like symptoms * extreme fatigue * diarrhea * pain and swelling of muscles and joints * dizziness * nausea * stiff neck * nagging sore throat * general malaise 8. Symptoms last up to three months and beyond, not typical of flu. 9. Symptoms are not readily treatable by known antibiotics. 10. Chemtrail missions tend to be suspended when the ground wind speed reaches or exceeds 20 miles per hour. 11. Tends to kill the elderly, the very young, and those with poor immune systems. 12. After spraying, gelatinous material is seen from low-flying, multi-engine aircraft. Cobweb-like material from higher-altitude spraying has been analyzed in university government-licensed labs with some of the pathogens identified. 13. Countries reporting spraying include Australia, Canada, England, France, Germany, Holland, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, New Zealand, Scotland, Spain and the United States. NOTE: This spray list does not include China, Russia nor the Middle East. The US has reported spraying in virtually every state and virtually every major US city including surrounding suburbs. WHAT'S IN CHEMTRAILS? Part of the substances in the chemtrails have been identified: a cocktail of JP8+100 jet fuel, laced with Ethylene Dibromide (EDB). This chemical pesticide was banned in 1983 by the EPA as a definite carcinogen and chemical toxin. Exposure to this type spraying can include these symptoms: * respiratory tract problems * severe infections to the throat and sinuses * swelling of the lymph glands * coughing fits * shortness of breath * sinus headaches * general respiratory failure * damage to the heart and liver * exposure to EDB makes people more susceptible to other biological agents due to severe lung irritation For lack of a better term, "brown goo" has been used to describe the material found on exterior walls of buildings and windshields of automobiles. It's almost impossible to remove with soap and water, and has proved to be highly toxic to anyone coming in contact with it. Don't touch it, handle it, or attempt to move it by yourself. "Numerous red and white blood cells, and unidentified cell types have been found within the sub-micron fiber sample previously presented and submitted on Jan. 20, 2000 to Carol M. Browner, Administrator of the United States Environmental Protection Agency. The cells appear to be of a freeze-dried or desiccated nature in their original form within the microscopic fibers." http://www.carnicom.com/bio1.htm "Thomas has also reported that spraying samples have been analyzed and have revealed that many deadly and toxic pathogens have been found including Mycoplasma Fermetens Incognitus (the SAME bioengineered pathogen that Dr. Garth Nicholson discovered in about 45% of the veterans who came down with Gulf War Illness). Thomas found that Mycoplasma, however, was only ONE pathogen among a group of highly toxic biohazard substances analyzed from the chemtrail residues." http://www.educate-yourself.org/ctindex.html CHEMTRAIL COCKTAILS - NO THANK YOU, WE'RE ABSTAINING There are at least four or five components found in these cocktails as released by Will Thomas. 1. A unique chemical marker used to identify the specific biological cocktail. This marker is derived from a coral reef found in an ocean on the other side of the world. 2. Samples contain a bacterium, Pseudomonas Fluorescens, which is responsible for serious blood infections. Mr. Thomas characterizes this organism as a bacterium that his research has shown to be named in more than 160 Pentagon patents pertaining to both biological warfare applications and aerosol inoculation experiments. It is also cited in DOD literature as an experimental biowarfare bacteria. Additionally, Pseudomonas Fluorescens is known to attack the respiratory system and is associated with severe coughing fits, general weakness, and vertigo and is extremely resistant to most antibiotics. 3. Some samples contained Pseudomonas Aeruginosa which invade and attack the respiratory system. Once infected by this bacteria, the linings of the lungs produce a thick mucous which results in breathing difficulties, coughing fits, and shortness of breath, following only minor physical exertion. After the infections have taken hold, Aeruginosa generates a wide range of toxic proteins which cause extensive tissue damage and severely compromises the immune system. It is also associated with bronchitis, pneumonia, ear and eye infections, meningitis, muscle and joint pain, cystic fibrosis, and gastrointestinal distress. Aeruginosa is also very antibiotic-resistant. 4. A fungus called streptomyces has also turned up in these cocktails. This fungus is normally found _inside_ a research laboratory since its primary use is in the production of antibiotics like Tetracycline and Streptomycin. The non-lab form of this fungus can cause severe infections in human beings. 5. The last component discovered in these cocktails is a special bacillus which contained what is known as a DNA restriction enzyme. What this allows, in effect, is gene splicing. A scientist can take a specific length from a DNA chain and transfer it to another organism creating a mutation. This substance is found only in genetic engineering laboratories. One of its uses is to create exotic viruses with specific characteristics and pathologies. PROTECT YOURSELF First and foremost, if you see chemtrails that meet the criteria in points 1-4, go inside. Ditto for pets, if possible. Second, don't touch the cobweb-like substances or the "brown goo". Third, build up your immune system. Eliminate fatty foods, refined sugar, white flour, salt, coffee, alcohol, tobacco and recreational drugs. Drink plenty of pure water. Take supplements of vitamins A, C, E and zinc. Echinacea and Goldenseal have also proved helpful. Some folks suggest daily doses of colloidal silver as well as gargling with it. Don't burn your candle at both ends; get plenty of sleep. IF YOU ARE EXPOSED This is not a cure-all, but it will help. 1) Take a hot shower with an antibacterial soap like Dial. Hot water helps kill bacteria, mold and yeast particles. Be sure to wash your hair since it's close to your mouth, nose and eyes (easy access to your respiratory tract). 2) If you get a severe sore throat or cough up green phlegm, go to the doctor immediately. Green phlegm means a bacterial infection either in the lungs or in the upper respiratory tract. Bacterial infections multiply rapidly and can only be killed by antibiotics and then, they are not always effective. ASSESSING THE SCENARIOS So what is the purpose for the spraying? 1. weather modification Based on their published agenda, we know that the US Air Force is currently engaged in extensive weather modification and control techniques. Experimentation is highly probable which could account for _some_ of the sprayings. "The Air Force also admits to "routine fuel dumping" of highly toxic JP8, and to using carbon black for weather modification. According to a recent NASA cloud study, carbon black is a "very effective" nuclei around which water vapor can condense, forming artificially-induced cloud cover." http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/mysites.html 2. mass depopulation If the purpose were for mass depopulation, one would think that people-dense countries like India, China, Africa and Indonesia would be targeted. If spraying were for nefarious purposes, why not spray only at night when there would be less detection? We're hard-pressed to think our government would sanction such activities as their own families and friends, not to mention themselves, would be equally at risk. This seems the least likely scenario. 3. mass inoculation It is possible that the governments are trying to vaccinate its citizenry against Anthrax, Tularemia, Brucellosis, or all three. Currently anthrax is probably the greatest national threat currently facing our country as well as other countries. It is easy to manufacture, transport and deliver, plus death follows fairly quickly. The economic devastation projected from an anthrax attack by a terrorist group has been calculated to be ~$26 billion per 100,000 persons exposed. That's significant. The technology exists for this type of DNA vaccine. Peoples' symptoms experienced after a chemtrail spraying are consistent with symptoms one would see produced by agents associated with the host bacteria used to deliver the vaccine. However, until a sample group of people is actually tested for immunity to anthrax, there is no proof that it protects conclusively against anthrax. The mostly likely method of transmission is through aerosol dispersion. That technology exists. Here are examples: 1. At the University of Guelph, researchers are working on an aerosol vaccine for chickens to protect them against E. coli. "Live vaccines have many advantages: they can be given in small doses and administered on mass via an aerosol spray." http://www.uoguelph.ca/Research/spark/nuggets/fall98.html 2. Conclusions from the 75th meeting of the National Institute of Health, held December 4, 1997, report that significant progress has been made toward creating an aerosol vaccine for influenza. http://www.nih.gov/about/director/120497.htm 3. In the fall of 1997, a Rhodes College biology course offered a segment entitled "Viruses: Risks and Benefits to Society". The course covered the use of the newer aerosol vaccines as well as how easy it is to use on animals. They simply inhale the vaccine and are protected against respiratory infections. 4. Reportedly there is a page on Kansas State University's web site (it's a huge site and I could not find it) soliciting inquiries from interested parties who would like to discuss licensing technologies developed at KSU for commercialization of an aerosol delivery system. It has already been developed to administer small proteins and DNA enzymes deeply into the respiratory system for immunization purposes. 5. In 1998, Renee Land was given a grant to _continue_ her research of an aerosol Rinderpest vaccine for use in free ranging domestic animals and wildlife. Rinderpest is a highly contagious and lethal virus which affects both groups of animals. Any outbreak of this virus has great potential for ecological and economic devastation. http://grdodge.org/vet98.html 6. From 1995: Dr. Fred W. Scott, of the Cornell Feline Health Center, has conducted three experiments to evaluate the safety and efficiency of a new intranasal FIP (Feline Infectious Peritonitis) vaccine, Primucell-FIP, _currently being marketed_ by SmithKline Beecham Animal Health (SBAH, formerly Norden Laboratories). http://www.vspn.net/VSPNSearch/VINLibrary/lv960028.htm 7. Measles vaccine - "A new* aerosol vaccine has been developed which may make measles inoculation possible as early as four to six months." http://www.midcoast.com.au/~wedmunds/c13-imun.htm *This article was revised in 1992. It is impossible to tell from the wording just how long this aerosol vaccine has been available, but somewhere between 1992 and 1995. With recent mainstream media talk on television and in newspapers, as well as government press releases stating that they feel NBC attacks are not only probable, but imminent, it follows that a mass inoculation process take place. We have only to look back to the three recent mock NBC tests in the past two weeks in Rhode Island, Washington D.C. and Denver to know the government is _very_ concerned. Additionally, there is the published list of 120 likely targeted cities in the U.S. for possible NBC attacks. Generally speaking, if you live in a larger metropolitan city, consider yours on the list. Last, President Clinton has openly and repeatedly warned of a coming NBC terrorist attack. It is anticipated and expected. As we wrote back in our 1997 Building Community newsletters regarding the massive problems predicted for El Nino, when FEMA or any government agency warns of a problem, you can bet we either already have it or it's on our doorstep. If it is indeed a case of mass inoculation, then you might ask why doesn't the government just come out with their spraying plans. Here are some possible explanations. 1. Liability. People have died as a result of these sprayings. 2. It formally tells potential terrorist attackers we're preparing for a specific disease and they might alter their plans to use a different pathogen. 3. Avoid mass panic. 4. Avoid lawsuits over huge civil rights infringements. Whoever agreed to be sprayed? Here is a point to ponder before becoming enraged at unauthorized, involuntary sprayings. Put yourself in the government's seat. If you were faced with an imminent NBC attack, how would you best protect 275 million citizens of America, 19 million Australians, 31+ million Canadians, 100+ million Mexicans, nearly 4 million New Zealanders and 60 million residents in the United Kingdom? The task would be overwhelming and underscores the need for a method that can be done quickly and cost-effectively. Hence, massive aerosol inoculation. We're not saying this was the proper way to go about it, but it was probably the best all-around solution in the government's eyes. We'd hate to be in their shoes making this decision. OUR CONCLUSIONS If someone were to really press us and asked, "OK, what do YOU think is the reason for the chemtrail sprayings, we would list them in this order from most to least likely: mass vaccination; some weather modification and/or control; and last, depopulation goals. However, there are many varying viewpoints. One of the absolute _best_ commentaries is written by Richard Malinowski and found here: http://home.earthlink.net/~wolfmind/CT01.html It is detailed and lengthy - at least 169K. The spraying issue is so pervasive and potentially harmful, it deserves your careful research and consideration. Some other good places to start are listed below. FURTHER READING Millennium Greetings From The New World Order (or How I Learned to Love the Chemtrail Bomb) - excellent, detailed backgrounder. http://home.earthlink.net/~wolfmind/CT01.html Chemtrail Crimes & Cover Ups - excellent information in detail http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm Contrail Connection - Photos, discussion boards, reports of illness and spraying http://www.contrailconnection.com/index.html Will Thomas - the investigative journalist from Canada who broke the story and its related medical ramifications. http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/ Backgrounder and Photos http://www.islandnet.com/%7Ewilco/investsky.htm Will Thomas' Update http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/mysites.html ChemTrail Watch - lots of article, photos http://members.xoom.com/centrexnews/chemtrails/ Chemtrails, à la Carte http://www.lacarte.org/health/chemtrails/ With affection, Holly and Stan Seismo and Taco -- AUSTRALIAN site: http://www.ballarat.net.au/~standeyo/ AMERICAN sites: http://www.millennium-ark.net http://buddyebsen.com/standeyo/ Emergency Preparedness: http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/Hollys.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 01:20:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02377; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 01:20:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 01:20:01 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Butch,reply to Stewart,why Newman got closest Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 08:20:59 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <393abde1.348091639@mail.midiowa.net> References: <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> <28.629876d.26607618@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.20000601181445.250723ec@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20000601181445.250723ec@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA02308 Resent-Message-ID: <"QJv3F2.0.wa.m-BEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave, On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 18:14:45, Dave Dameron wrote: >At ???, Mike wrote: >>regarding "the speed of pulses thru conductors", a thought experiment: >> >>i have a "LONG" length of wire in a big circle (558,000 MILES total length) >>with the ends >> >>far enough apart to touch the terminals of a 9-volt battery; i complete the >>circuit for 1 second; >> >>what happens and why/how? how does the battery KNOW the circuit has been >>completed >The battery knows almost immediately, like (distance between battery >electrodes)/(speed of EM) time later. As you said, the battery knows it's to supply current almost immediately (time later is measured in nanoseconds). Even if the wire was two parts -- 279,000 miles on each side, -- the battery would see essentially a short-circuit for 2 seconds or so, with the current flow limited by the wire's resistance and the battery's internal resistance. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 06:04:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA18013; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 06:04:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 06:04:06 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: musings about the Hutchinson effect apparatus Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 09:18:08 -0400 Message-ID: <20000603131808015.AAA276@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"_ypk8.0.9P4.49GEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jim writes: >The Black Hole Antenna, on the other hand, is well-documented. See >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05296866__ and >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05311198__ for example. Thanks for the patents. I don't get cable down here, and the only station that I can pick up is a static filled, 24 hour religious show. This could be some fun! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 06:58:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12951; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 06:57:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 06:57:24 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 10:09:08 -0400 Message-ID: <20000603140908453.AAA308@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"ckTBP.0.f93.-wGEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com DEADWEIGHT wrote: >Something to mull over. >A family member sent this to me. I am at a loss for words. Well, you must not be at all Irish... The Sharper Image air cleanser might be a good thing to look into. It is supposed to eliminate a lot of the airborne pathogens. I forget now who found one of those, but did it have the patent numbers written on it? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 11:14:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32259; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:13:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:13:13 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 14:11:25 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"LftSn2.0.qt7.vgKEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Important question on magnetic wire Hi all, Does anyone know for a fact that a bifilar coil made from steel or any magnetic wire will effect a magnet as such: When a copper bifilar coil has current flowing thru it a magnet acts as though the coil is not there. I have tested this in the shop and it is true. My question is, if the bifilar coil was made with steel or any magnetic wire, when the current was flowing thru it, would the magnet be attracted to the steel in the coil even though the bifilar effect of the windings was at work? Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 12:21:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15673; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:21:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:21:04 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bfcd90$b9dfcd60$85d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 15:20:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"tGbzV1.0.oq3.VgLEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If that is true, it's pretty scary... -----Original Message----- From: DEADWATE@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, June 02, 2000 11:53 PM Subject: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide >Something to mull over. >A family member sent this to me. I am at a loss for words. > > > > There are few issues today that have sparked the controversy >inspired by chemtrails. It's a near-global event. Three main >theories are circulating to account for the spraying: > > 1. weather modification > 2. mass depopulation > 3. mass inoculation > > Frankly, Stan and I didn't know where to stand on this issue >several years ago as there was too little factual information though >we leaned toward the inoculation theory. This was during the time >when our armed forces were being inoculated for anthrax and a holy >furor ensued. We had, and still do, have a hard time believing our >government is out to exterminate the citizens. > > At least part of the spraying seems to be for weather >modification and/or neutralizing global warming effects according to >recent interviews with Will Thomas. He further purports that this >weather mod is being conducted due to pressure from insurance >companies who see financial ruin on their horizon with continued high >disaster-related claims. The catch? These weather modification >tactics are further depleting the ozone hole and enhancing global >warming. It is a short-term, "band-aid" answer with even worse >consequences. > > It appears there are two types of spraying conducted which >would help account for several perceived scenarios. For those to >whom this information is relatively new, here are some basic >_generalizations_. > > 1. Chemtrails, as opposed to contrails, take three or more >hours to dissipate. Regular contrails disappear in about 20 minutes. > > 2. Chemtrails tend to look flat. > > 3. Another feature different from ordinary contrails is that >mature chemtrails display a vertical curtain of fall-off. > > 4. Intense chemtrail spraying is done in tic-tac-toe, "X" >and grids patterns. > > 5. Spraying is generally done by these planes: KC-10A, >KC-135 (707) and C-130 for the high altitude spraying and C-130 >turboprop aircraft for the low-level spraying. The KC-10A is a >three-engine aircraft and would normally leave three parallel >contrails in its wake. The KC-135 is a smaller, four-engine >aircraft that would typically display four parallel contrail lines. >When used during chemtrail missions; however, these aircraft lay down >only a single, thick, billowy chemtrail while simultaneously >displaying no normal contrails. There are other planes which have >been used in the spraying, but these are the main ones. > > 6. Two types of spraying are done: high altitude meaning >20,000 feet and above and low altitude spraying each with seemingly >different purposes. > > 7. Low level spraying contains molds and fungi and produces >varying symptoms including: > * headaches worse than migraines > * heartburn > * heart conditions > * heart arrest, on the _rare_ occasion > * flu-like symptoms > * extreme fatigue > * diarrhea > * pain and swelling of muscles and joints > * dizziness > * nausea > * stiff neck > * nagging sore throat > * general malaise > > 8. Symptoms last up to three months and beyond, not typical of flu. > > 9. Symptoms are not readily treatable by known antibiotics. > > 10. Chemtrail missions tend to be suspended when the ground >wind speed reaches or exceeds 20 miles per hour. > > 11. Tends to kill the elderly, the very young, and those >with poor immune systems. > > 12. After spraying, gelatinous material is seen from >low-flying, multi-engine aircraft. Cobweb-like material from >higher-altitude spraying has been analyzed in university >government-licensed labs with some of the pathogens identified. > > 13. Countries reporting spraying include Australia, Canada, >England, France, Germany, Holland, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, New >Zealand, Scotland, Spain and the United States. NOTE: This spray >list does not include China, Russia nor the Middle East. The US has >reported spraying in virtually every state and virtually every major >US city including surrounding suburbs. > > >WHAT'S IN CHEMTRAILS? > > Part of the substances in the chemtrails have been >identified: a cocktail of JP8+100 jet fuel, laced with Ethylene >Dibromide (EDB). This chemical pesticide was banned in 1983 by the >EPA as a definite carcinogen and chemical toxin. Exposure to this >type spraying can include these symptoms: > * respiratory tract problems > * severe infections to the throat and sinuses > * swelling of the lymph glands > * coughing fits > * shortness of breath > * sinus headaches > * general respiratory failure > * damage to the heart and liver > * exposure to EDB makes people more susceptible to other >biological agents due to severe lung irritation > > For lack of a better term, "brown goo" has been used to >describe the material found on exterior walls of buildings and >windshields of automobiles. It's almost impossible to remove with >soap and water, and has proved to be highly toxic to anyone coming in >contact with it. Don't touch it, handle it, or attempt to move it by >yourself. > > "Numerous red and white blood cells, and unidentified cell >types have been found within the sub-micron fiber sample previously >presented and submitted on Jan. 20, 2000 to Carol M. Browner, >Administrator of the United States Environmental Protection Agency. >The cells appear to be of a freeze-dried or desiccated nature in >their original form within the microscopic fibers." >http://www.carnicom.com/bio1.htm > > "Thomas has also reported that spraying samples have been >analyzed and have revealed that many deadly and toxic pathogens have >been found including Mycoplasma Fermetens Incognitus (the SAME >bioengineered pathogen that Dr. Garth Nicholson discovered in about >45% of the veterans who came down with Gulf War Illness). Thomas >found that Mycoplasma, however, was only ONE pathogen among a group >of highly toxic biohazard substances analyzed from the chemtrail >residues." http://www.educate-yourself.org/ctindex.html > > >CHEMTRAIL COCKTAILS - NO THANK YOU, WE'RE ABSTAINING > > There are at least four or five components found in these >cocktails as released by Will Thomas. > > 1. A unique chemical marker used to identify the specific >biological cocktail. This marker is derived from a coral reef found >in an ocean on the other side of the world. > > 2. Samples contain a bacterium, Pseudomonas Fluorescens, >which is responsible for serious blood infections. Mr. Thomas >characterizes this organism as a bacterium that his research has >shown to be named in more than 160 Pentagon patents pertaining to >both biological warfare applications and aerosol inoculation >experiments. It is also cited in DOD literature as an experimental >biowarfare bacteria. Additionally, Pseudomonas Fluorescens is known >to attack the respiratory system and is associated with severe >coughing fits, general weakness, and vertigo and is extremely >resistant to most antibiotics. > > 3. Some samples contained Pseudomonas Aeruginosa which >invade and attack the respiratory system. Once infected by this >bacteria, the linings of the lungs produce a thick mucous which >results in breathing difficulties, coughing fits, and shortness of >breath, following only minor physical exertion. After the infections >have taken hold, Aeruginosa generates a wide range of toxic proteins >which cause extensive tissue damage and severely compromises the >immune system. It is also associated with bronchitis, pneumonia, ear >and eye infections, meningitis, muscle and joint pain, cystic >fibrosis, and gastrointestinal distress. Aeruginosa is also very >antibiotic-resistant. > > 4. A fungus called streptomyces has also turned up in these >cocktails. This fungus is normally found _inside_ a research >laboratory since its primary use is in the production of antibiotics >like Tetracycline and Streptomycin. The non-lab form of this fungus >can cause severe infections in human beings. > > 5. The last component discovered in these cocktails is a >special bacillus which contained what is known as a DNA restriction >enzyme. What this allows, in effect, is gene splicing. A scientist >can take a specific length from a DNA chain and transfer it to >another organism creating a mutation. This substance is found only in >genetic engineering laboratories. One of its uses is to create >exotic viruses with specific characteristics and pathologies. > > >PROTECT YOURSELF > > First and foremost, if you see chemtrails that meet the >criteria in points 1-4, go inside. Ditto for pets, if possible. > > Second, don't touch the cobweb-like substances or the "brown goo". > > Third, build up your immune system. Eliminate fatty foods, >refined sugar, white flour, salt, coffee, alcohol, tobacco and >recreational drugs. Drink plenty of pure water. Take supplements of >vitamins A, C, E and zinc. Echinacea and Goldenseal have also proved >helpful. Some folks suggest daily doses of colloidal silver as well >as gargling with it. Don't burn your candle at both ends; get plenty >of sleep. > > >IF YOU ARE EXPOSED > > This is not a cure-all, but it will help. > > 1) Take a hot shower with an antibacterial soap like Dial. >Hot water helps kill bacteria, mold and yeast particles. Be sure to >wash your hair since it's close to your mouth, nose and eyes (easy >access to your respiratory tract). > > 2) If you get a severe sore throat or cough up green phlegm, >go to the doctor immediately. Green phlegm means a bacterial >infection either in the lungs or in the upper respiratory tract. >Bacterial infections multiply rapidly and can only be killed by >antibiotics and then, they are not always effective. > > >ASSESSING THE SCENARIOS > > So what is the purpose for the spraying? > > 1. weather modification > > Based on their published agenda, we know that the US Air >Force is currently engaged in extensive weather modification and >control techniques. Experimentation is highly probable which could >account for _some_ of the sprayings. > > "The Air Force also admits to "routine fuel dumping" of >highly toxic JP8, and to using carbon black for weather modification. >According to a recent NASA cloud study, carbon black is a "very >effective" nuclei around which water vapor can condense, forming >artificially-induced cloud cover." >http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/mysites.html > > 2. mass depopulation > > If the purpose were for mass depopulation, one would think >that people-dense countries like India, China, Africa and Indonesia >would be targeted. If spraying were for nefarious purposes, why not >spray only at night when there would be less detection? We're >hard-pressed to think our government would sanction such activities >as their own families and friends, not to mention themselves, would >be equally at risk. This seems the least likely scenario. > > 3. mass inoculation > > It is possible that the governments are trying to vaccinate >its citizenry against Anthrax, Tularemia, Brucellosis, or all three. >Currently anthrax is probably the greatest national threat currently >facing our country as well as other countries. It is easy to >manufacture, transport and deliver, plus death follows fairly >quickly. The economic devastation projected from an anthrax attack by >a terrorist group has been calculated to be ~$26 billion per 100,000 >persons exposed. That's significant. > > The technology exists for this type of DNA vaccine. Peoples' >symptoms experienced after a chemtrail spraying are consistent with >symptoms one would see produced by agents associated with the host >bacteria used to deliver the vaccine. However, until a sample group >of people is actually tested for immunity to anthrax, there is no >proof that it protects conclusively against anthrax. > > The mostly likely method of transmission is through aerosol >dispersion. That technology exists. Here are examples: > > 1. At the University of Guelph, researchers are working on >an aerosol vaccine for chickens to protect them against E. coli. >"Live vaccines have many advantages: they can be given in small doses >and administered on mass via an aerosol spray." >http://www.uoguelph.ca/Research/spark/nuggets/fall98.html > > 2. Conclusions from the 75th meeting of the National >Institute of Health, held December 4, 1997, report that significant >progress has been made toward creating an aerosol vaccine for >influenza. http://www.nih.gov/about/director/120497.htm > > 3. In the fall of 1997, a Rhodes College biology course >offered a segment entitled "Viruses: Risks and Benefits to Society". >The course covered the use of the newer aerosol vaccines as well as >how easy it is to use on animals. They simply inhale the vaccine and >are protected against respiratory infections. > > 4. Reportedly there is a page on Kansas State University's >web site (it's a huge site and I could not find it) soliciting >inquiries from interested parties who would like to discuss licensing >technologies developed at KSU for commercialization of an aerosol >delivery system. It has already been developed to administer small >proteins and DNA enzymes deeply into the respiratory system for >immunization purposes. > > 5. In 1998, Renee Land was given a grant to _continue_ her >research of an aerosol Rinderpest vaccine for use in free ranging >domestic animals and wildlife. Rinderpest is a highly contagious and >lethal virus which affects both groups of animals. Any outbreak of >this virus has great potential for ecological and economic >devastation. http://grdodge.org/vet98.html > > 6. From 1995: Dr. Fred W. Scott, of the Cornell Feline >Health Center, has conducted three experiments to evaluate the safety >and efficiency of a new intranasal FIP (Feline Infectious >Peritonitis) vaccine, Primucell-FIP, _currently being marketed_ by >SmithKline Beecham Animal Health (SBAH, formerly Norden >Laboratories). http://www.vspn.net/VSPNSearch/VINLibrary/lv960028.htm > > 7. Measles vaccine - "A new* aerosol vaccine has been >developed which may make measles inoculation possible as early as >four to six months." http://www.midcoast.com.au/~wedmunds/c13-imun.htm > > *This article was revised in 1992. It is impossible to tell >from the wording just how long this aerosol vaccine has been >available, but somewhere between 1992 and 1995. > > > With recent mainstream media talk on television and in >newspapers, as well as government press releases stating that they >feel NBC attacks are not only probable, but imminent, it follows that >a mass inoculation process take place. We have only to look back to >the three recent mock NBC tests in the past two weeks in Rhode >Island, Washington D.C. and Denver to know the government is _very_ >concerned. Additionally, there is the published list of 120 likely >targeted cities in the U.S. for possible NBC attacks. Generally >speaking, if you live in a larger metropolitan city, consider yours >on the list. Last, President Clinton has openly and repeatedly >warned of a coming NBC terrorist attack. It is anticipated and >expected. As we wrote back in our 1997 Building Community >newsletters regarding the massive problems predicted for El Nino, >when FEMA or any government agency warns of a problem, you can bet we >either already have it or it's on our doorstep. > > If it is indeed a case of mass inoculation, then you might >ask why doesn't the government just come out with their spraying >plans. Here are some possible explanations. > 1. Liability. People have died as a result of these sprayings. > 2. It formally tells potential terrorist attackers we're >preparing for a specific disease and they might alter their plans to >use a different pathogen. > 3. Avoid mass panic. > 4. Avoid lawsuits over huge civil rights infringements. >Whoever agreed to be sprayed? > > Here is a point to ponder before becoming enraged at >unauthorized, involuntary sprayings. Put yourself in the >government's seat. If you were faced with an imminent NBC attack, >how would you best protect 275 million citizens of America, 19 >million Australians, 31+ million Canadians, 100+ million Mexicans, >nearly 4 million New Zealanders and 60 million residents in the >United Kingdom? The task would be overwhelming and underscores the >need for a method that can be done quickly and cost-effectively. >Hence, massive aerosol inoculation. We're not saying this was the >proper way to go about it, but it was probably the best all-around >solution in the government's eyes. We'd hate to be in their shoes >making this decision. > > >OUR CONCLUSIONS > > If someone were to really press us and asked, "OK, what do >YOU think is the reason for the chemtrail sprayings, we would list >them in this order from most to least likely: mass vaccination; some >weather modification and/or control; and last, depopulation goals. >However, there are many varying viewpoints. One of the absolute >_best_ commentaries is written by Richard Malinowski and found here: >http://home.earthlink.net/~wolfmind/CT01.html It is detailed and >lengthy - at least 169K. The spraying issue is so pervasive and >potentially harmful, it deserves your careful research and >consideration. Some other good places to start are listed below. > > >FURTHER READING > >Millennium Greetings From The New World Order (or How I Learned to >Love the Chemtrail Bomb) - excellent, detailed backgrounder. >http://home.earthlink.net/~wolfmind/CT01.html > >Chemtrail Crimes & Cover Ups - excellent information in detail >http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm > >Contrail Connection - Photos, discussion boards, reports of illness >and spraying >http://www.contrailconnection.com/index.html > >Will Thomas - the investigative journalist from Canada who broke the >story and its related medical ramifications. >http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/ > >Backgrounder and Photos >http://www.islandnet.com/%7Ewilco/investsky.htm > >Will Thomas' Update >http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/mysites.html > >ChemTrail Watch - lots of article, photos >http://members.xoom.com/centrexnews/chemtrails/ > >Chemtrails, à la Carte >http://www.lacarte.org/health/chemtrails/ > >With affection, >Holly and Stan >Seismo and Taco > > > > >-- >AUSTRALIAN site: http://www.ballarat.net.au/~standeyo/ >AMERICAN sites: http://www.millennium-ark.net > http://buddyebsen.com/standeyo/ >Emergency Preparedness: >http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/Hollys.html > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 14:12:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18125; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 14:12:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 14:12:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <73.3d20458.2669da8f@aol.com> References: <73.3d20458.2669da8f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:11:55 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"vFU6w1.0.1R4.dINEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Something to mull over. >A family member sent this to me. I am at a loss for words. > > > > There are few issues today that have sparked the controversy >inspired by chemtrails. It's a near-global event. Three main >theories are circulating to account for the spraying: > > 1. weather modification > 2. mass depopulation > 3. mass inoculation <> ------------------------------------------------------------------ 4. the whole thing is imagined. I haven't seen one credible photo of anything that looked like anything other than normal contrails and their typical effects as they disperse. #1 is a given - planes *have* been used to disperse cloud seeds and such in an attempt to modify weather. #2 is paranoid and non-existent. Have you lost any relatives from towns that have just disappeared from the map? #3 is paranoid, but not without precedent. They did spray stuff on us to test bio weapon dispersal in years past. Secret innoculation could be done by simpler means - like drinking water. I've looked at the photos, visited the websites, and listened to those chemtrail advocates on Art Bell. After all that I'm convinced that it's just another case of persuasive yet faulty conclusions drawn from ordinary events. It's similar in a way to the Escamilla photos of insects and birds on videos where ufos and large high speed sky denizens is the claimed explanation. They bring out that "expert" Dillitoso (sp?) to "analyze" the video and conclude the have an image of a 70 foot creature travelling a thousand miles per hour or something like that. Yes, the image could be interpreted that way, as long as several FACTS are ignored. That's how this works, like lawyers who make of an entirely different set of explanations using a given set (subset, usually) of facts. There is no chemtrail conspiracy. However, maybe we are being constantly rained on by globs of viruses from space (see Fred Hoyle, etc.). Isn't that a weird enough thing to have coming from the sky? People once thought having rocks form the sky was weird and impossible. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 19:57:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03440; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 19:57:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 19:57:00 -0700 Message-ID: <011901bfcdcf$ab188b20$1ce3fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: "kroniatalk" , , , "energy21" , , , "MILLENNIUM PROJECT" , , , , Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 19:50:31 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"jldXc2.0.Wr.yLSEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light June 4 2000 UNITED STATES Eureka! Scientists break speed of light Jonathan Leake, Science Editor SCIENTISTS claim they have broken the ultimate speed barrier: the speed of light. In research carried out in the United States, particle physicists have shown that light pulses can be accelerated to up to 300 times their normal velocity of 186,000 miles per second. The implications, like the speed, are mind-boggling. On one interpretation it means that light will arrive at its destination almost before it has started its journey. In effect, it is leaping forward in time. Exact details of the findings remain confidential because they have been submitted to Nature, the international scientific journal, for review prior to possible publication. The work was carried out by Dr Lijun Wang, of the NEC research institute in Princeton, who transmitted a pulse of light towards a chamber filled with specially treated caesium gas. Before the pulse had fully entered the chamber it had gone right through it and travelled a further 60ft across the laboratory. In effect it existed in two places at once, a phenomenon that Wang explains by saying it travelled 300 times faster than light. The research is already causing controversy among physicists. What bothers them is that if light could travel forward in time it could carry information. This would breach one of the basic principles in physics - causality, which says that a cause must come before an effect. It would also shatter Einstein's theory of relativity since it depends in part on the speed of light being unbreachable. This weekend Wang said he could not give details but confirmed: "Our light pulses did indeed travel faster than the accepted speed of light. I hope it will give us a much better understanding of the nature of light and how it behaves." Dr Raymond Chiao, professor of physics at the University of California at Berkeley, who is familiar with Wang's work, said he was impressedby the findings. "This is a fascinating experiment," he said. In Italy, another group of physicists has also succeeded in breaking the light speed barrier. In a newly published paper, physicists at the Italian National Research Council described how they propagated microwaves at 25% above normal light speed. The group speculates that it could be possible to transmit information faster than light. Dr Guenter Nimtz, of Cologne University, an expert in the field, agrees. He believes that information can be sent faster than light and last week gave a paper describing how it could be done to a conference in Edinburgh. He believes, however, that this will not breach the principle of causality because the time taken to interpret the signal would fritter away all the savings. "The most likely application for this is not in time travel but in speeding up the way signals move through computer circuits," he said. Wang's experiment is the latest and possibly the most important evidence that the physical world may not operate according to any of the accepted conventions. In the new world that modern science is beginning to perceive, sub-atomic particles can apparently exist in two places at the same time - making no distinction between space and time. Separate experiments carried out by Chiao illustrate this. He showed that in certain circumstances photons - the particles of which light is made - could apparently jump between two points separated by a barrier in what appears to be zero time. The process, known as tunnelling, has been used to make some of the most sensitive electron microscopes. The implications of Wang's experiments will arouse fierce debate. Many will question whether his work can be interpreted as proving that light can exceed its normal speed - suggesting that another mechanism may be at work. Neil Turok, professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge University, said he awaited the details with interest, but added: "I doubt this will change our view of the fundamental laws of physics." Wang emphasises that his experiments are relevant only to light and may not apply to other physical entities. But scientists are beginning to accept that man may eventually exploit some of these characteristics for inter-stellar space travel. Next page: Trials to start for cocaine 'vaccine' Next: Trials to start for cocaine 'vaccine' Copyright 2000 Times Newspapers Ltd. This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard terms and conditions. To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from The Sunday Times, visit the Syndication website. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 21:24:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA25097; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:24:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:24:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3939D992.5F16B905@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 00:22:43 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------92D5EF79B52B1714C80C407B" Resent-Message-ID: <"eU0O02.0.y76.bdTEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Diagram of H2 catalysis overunity system --------------92D5EF79B52B1714C80C407B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------92D5EF79B52B1714C80C407B Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail2N.jpeg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wAAR CAHgAoADASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA 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CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooA//9k= --------------92D5EF79B52B1714C80C407B-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 21:30:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA29047; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:30:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:30:25 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 14:29:50 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <73.3d20458.2669da8f@aol.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA29015 Resent-Message-ID: <"BepIZ.0.m57.WjTEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Rick Monteverde's message of Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:11:55 -1000: [snip] >#3 is paranoid, but not without precedent. They did spray stuff on us >to test bio weapon dispersal in years past. Secret innoculation could >be done by simpler means - like drinking water. This may be more difficult than it sounds. The chlorine in drinking water knocks out most bacteria, and it might be hard to explain why they have suddenly stopped chlorinating drinking water. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 21:33:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30327; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:33:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:33:15 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 14:32:42 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <0smjjskpgocr9s7uvjsuks7ar3i260kk45@4ax.com> References: <011901bfcdcf$ab188b20$1ce3fea9@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <011901bfcdcf$ab188b20$1ce3fea9@oemcomputer> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA30304 Resent-Message-ID: <"qa3sy2.0.iP7.AmTEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Anna M*'s message of Sat, 3 Jun 2000 19:50:31 -0700: [snip] >The implications, like the speed, are mind-boggling. On one interpretation >it means that light will arrive at its destination almost before it has >started its journey. In effect, it is leaping forward in time. [snip] This is a misinterpretation on the part of the person who reported it. Just like exceeding the speed of light doesn't mean you are going back in time. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 3 21:48:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03028; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:47:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:47:53 -0700 Message-ID: <006c01bfcde0$39041340$85f14ed8@pavilion> From: "Joe May" To: References: <011901bfcdcf$ab188b20$1ce3fea9@oemcomputer> <0smjjskpgocr9s7uvjsuks7ar3i260kk45@4ax.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 00:49:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"qv5ol1.0.Dl.uzTEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com REF. OBE,RV line one should read 19 years old at the time.Line two 15 years ago. Sorry, It is late and I am tired I'm going to bed. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light > In reply to Anna M*'s message of Sat, 3 Jun 2000 19:50:31 -0700: > [snip] > >The implications, like the speed, are mind-boggling. On one interpretation > >it means that light will arrive at its destination almost before it has > >started its journey. In effect, it is leaping forward in time. > [snip] > This is a misinterpretation on the part of the person who reported it. > Just like exceeding the speed of light doesn't mean you are going back in > time. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 4 06:39:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24911; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 06:38:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 06:38:43 -0700 Message-ID: <393A77CC.2DEA2DAB@panacom.com> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:37:48 -0700 From: Dean Reply-To: dean@panacom.com Organization: OZ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide References: <73.3d20458.2669da8f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L9a021.0.756.ZlbEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to Rick Monteverde's message of Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:11:55 -1000: > [snip] > >#3 is paranoid, but not without precedent. They did spray stuff on us > >to test bio weapon dispersal in years past. Secret innoculation could > >be done by simpler means - like drinking water. > > This may be more difficult than it sounds. The chlorine in drinking water > knocks out most bacteria, and it might be hard to explain why they have > suddenly stopped chlorinating drinking water. > [snip] > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. This may not be the case. I worked in water treatment for 14 years. When the chlorination occurs, the dosage is adjusted to kill most pathogens. After the facilities retention time is over the residual level of chlorine is tested and the dosage is adjusted to adjust the output level down to about 3 ppm (parts per million). This level is a maintenance level and will prevent further biological growth but not necessarily destroy any 'survivors'. There are lots of living organisms in your chlorinated drinking water. Also, if you were to add a biological at the discharge of the treatment facility it would likely survive for quite a time if not indefinitely. Organic compounds tend to decompose in a short period of time (several hours)as they are mostly unstable and are not considered a concern in regards to a attack on the water supply. Heavy metals are the most serious threat as they are stable and very toxic in small doses. Dean From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 4 07:34:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07817; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 07:33:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 07:33:51 -0700 Message-ID: <20000604143320.16628.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 07:33:19 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"sVwE52.0.2w1.EZcEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- harvey norris wrote: > > > (From previous thread deleted by accident) > > > This may be more difficult than it sounds. The > > chlorine in drinking water > > > knocks out most bacteria, and it might be hard > to > > explain why they have > > > suddenly stopped chlorinating drinking water. > > > [snip] > > > > This may not be the case. I worked in water > > treatment for 14 years. > > When the chlorination occurs, the dosage is > adjusted > > to kill most > > pathogens. After the facilities retention time is > > over the residual > > level of chlorine is tested and the dosage is > > adjusted to adjust the > > output level down to about 3 ppm (parts per > > million). This level is a > > maintenance level and will prevent further > > biological growth but not > > necessarily destroy any 'survivors'. > > > > There are lots of living organisms in your > > chlorinated drinking water. > > Also, if you were to add a biological at the > > discharge of the treatment > > facility it would likely survive for quite a time > if > > not indefinitely. > > > > Organic compounds tend to decompose in a short > > period of time (several > > hours)as they are mostly unstable and are not > > considered a concern in > > regards to a attack on the water supply. Heavy > > metals are the most > > serious threat as they are stable and very toxic > in > > small doses. > > > > > > Dean > I spoke with an individual who spoke with a guy from > Finland visiting a water treatment plant here in the > States,(United by the Feds) He stated that in > Finland > no chlorination is used. This is a second hand > recounting but he stated that they use electrical > means to clear their water. Ozonation will do the > same > thing to kill bacteria. This started me thinking. > Since I am able to make higher voltages without > employing higher amperages as an input that a > transformer involves there may be technical > applications of using the series resonant rise of > voltage for industrial purposes. Now I am most > interested in making some colloidal silver water > using > the 3000 volt high frequency/high voltage driven > from > wall input by my binary resonant induction coils. > The > kit my freind bought for making this water only uses > a > 9 volt battery! Another application may be the > production of hydrogen peroxide(we all know what > this > oxygenated water does to bacteria!) I was told by a > co > rep that this is a energy intensive process, it > takes > a lot of energy expenditure to make it. In a > transformer the multiplication of voltage from input > is accompanied by a reduction in the amperage on the > high voltage side. But in series resonance, the > opposite effect occurs, when a higher than input > voltage is made by that method, the amperage > increases > , not decreasing as the transformer method gives. > HDN > > > ===== > Binary Resonant > Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > http://photos.yahoo.com > ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 4 12:42:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01350; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 12:41:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 12:41:19 -0700 Message-ID: <20000604194044.95043.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.60] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 12:40:44 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"fNncw1.0.xK.U3hEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com There is a pure fact of numbers that would make spraying the population ineffective... If you fly you would notice that people are not everywhere... In fact unless you are flying directly over a city then the likely hood of anything you drop from an aircraft ever hitting a person is infinitely small... This subject has been discussed by pilots for a long time... Just ask one about a "pilot relief tube" and see what he says... Timothy... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 4 12:43:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02595; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 12:42:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 12:42:52 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01bfce5d$96337ba0$aa2f9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: References: <391EF889.210E9D4@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 00:09:45 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"E_NhZ3.0.Ie.y4hEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: convection towers (was: One more little jab...) The idea seems to remind me of the sci-fi short-story "Short-Stacks" from circa 1950's: The premise was that a black plastic tube sufficiently tall would heat ( from sunshine) the air inside, causing it to rise generating a self-sustained flow of air from the bottom to the top. The flow could( at the bottom of the pipe) be directed through a turbine to generate electricity. Don't know if it would work, but sounds like an interesting ( and inexpensive! ) project to try... ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: 2000 May 15, Monday 06:46 Subject: Re: One more little jab... | On Sun, 14 May 2000 15:03:37 -0400, Mike Johnston wrote: | | >Hi Again, | > Refer back to my last post and consider the fact that steam | >rises...without any help....(not to mention hydrogen)and so then the | >only power required to get that water to the top is the power necessary | >to maintain the vacuum with the water column at 30 feet... the steam | >will rise on up to be sucked out of the pipe on it's own.. | [snip] | I'm afraid it won't. Steam doesn't rise on it's own the way that you intend | (exception follows below). It isn't an anti-gravity thing. It gets pushed up | by cold air falling down around it. This only works, if the air can actually | displace the steam. In the pipe you are talking about that can't happen, | because the weight of the water has already compensated for all of the air | pressure. Now that said, some vapour will indeed reach the top of the pipe, | through diffusion. This results in the kinetic energy of the molecules being | converted into potential energy, which means the temperature of the vapour | will drop (temp. is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the | molecules). This looks to me like it might be a way of converting | environmental thermal energy into useful energy, but I'm probably wrong. | | Regards, | | Robin van Spaandonk | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 4 14:12:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01247; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:12:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:12:14 -0700 Message-ID: <20000604211142.22220.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:11:42 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"kfsbo1.0.GJ.kOiEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Underground Radio http://www.geocities.com/lemagicien_2000/elecpage/elec.html cotains the whistler sound of the VLF emission of an electron accelerated across one of the earth's magnetic lobes!!! Also check out Underground Radio - How to use conductive soil (underground water table) to transmit audio or radio signals, new entry on this page. This guy also has Kirilian photography on the main page. Very interesting. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 4 15:00:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19114; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:59:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:59:37 -0700 Message-ID: <393AD146.DF5058BD@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 14:59:34 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: convection towers (was: One more little jab...) References: <391EF889.210E9D4@csrlink.net> <001f01bfce5d$96337ba0$aa2f9fca@xplornote> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E4AG2.0.Tg4.85jEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com xplorer wrote: > The idea seems to remind me of the sci-fi short-story > "Short-Stacks" from circa 1950's: > The premise was that a black plastic tube sufficiently tall would heat > ( from sunshine) the air inside, causing it to rise > generating a self-sustained flow of air from the bottom to the top. > The flow could( at the bottom of the pipe) be directed through > a turbine to generate electricity. > Don't know if it would work, but sounds > like an interesting ( and inexpensive! ) project to try... > Oh it works alright, but the tubes need to be made of metal, we used aluminum duct 8" in diameter..and a huge pile of cinderblocks - all spraypainted black to absorb as much heat as possible. 12' is about the minimum rise that will actually turn the roof turbine and power a small bicycle alternator. Miserable efficiency. You need a BIG thermal mass at the base to make it work - like a building! My old Windcharger was better. -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 4 20:38:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22975; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 20:37:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 20:37:36 -0700 Message-ID: <01b901bfce9e$941ac440$a29cfea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , , , "energy21" Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 20:31:42 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"iQeES1.0.ic5.02oEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light More on light speed: I would have to add Ralph Sansbury's experiments to this list of evidence for light that travels faster-than-light. Sansbury's second experiment was even more eye-opening. He sent a laser beam toward a detector, with a very fast shutter in from of it. The shutter was closed after the beam left the laser, but before it (according to speed of light) should have arrived at the shutter. The detector (beyond the shutter) received some (but not all) of the light. For a very technical and somewhat hard-to-read version, check out Sansbury's book at (you need adobe acrobat to read it): http://www.bestweb.net/~sansbury/book98.PDF Sansbury, OTOH, is arguing that the present-day theory of light-speed, preceding and including Einstein's work, was based on a fundamental mistake. In his own words [_Gravity and Light_ pg 33] Sansbury says: "I argue here that Cassini's objections to Roemer's view in 1676 were well-founded and right and that Halley's zealousness may have helped the ideas of Bradley in 1720 to gain acceptance, just as it did earlier in 1687 for the ideas of Newton on light and gravity, but ironically by wrongly opposing Cassini he steered the science of physics in the wrong direction." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 4 23:20:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08826; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 23:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 23:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01b901bfce9e$941ac440$a29cfea9@oemcomputer> References: <01b901bfce9e$941ac440$a29cfea9@oemcomputer> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 20:19:08 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"Xrd8C3.0.p92.iPqEv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com IAnne - I liked the Sansbury experiment too, but it's looking like his results so far with the Pockels cells were experimental error. Seems to me it *should* work though. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >More on light speed: > >I would have to add Ralph Sansbury's experiments to this list of evidence >for light that travels faster-than-light. >Sansbury's second experiment was even more eye-opening. >He sent a laser beam toward a detector, with a very fast shutter in from of >it. >The shutter was closed after the beam left the laser, but before it >(according to speed of light) >should have arrived at the shutter. The detector (beyond the shutter) >received some (but not all) of the light. >For a very technical and somewhat hard-to-read version, check out >Sansbury's book at (you need adobe acrobat to read it): >http://www.bestweb.net/~sansbury/book98.PDF > >Sansbury, OTOH, is arguing that the present-day theory of light-speed, >preceding and including Einstein's work, was based on a fundamental >mistake. In his own words [_Gravity and Light_ pg 33] Sansbury says: "I >argue here that Cassini's objections to Roemer's view in 1676 were >well-founded and right and that Halley's zealousness may have helped the >ideas of Bradley in 1720 to gain acceptance, just as it did earlier in 1687 >for the ideas of Newton on light and gravity, but ironically by wrongly >opposing >Cassini he steered the science of physics in the wrong direction." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 01:00:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13473; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 00:58:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 00:58:56 -0700 Message-ID: <393B5D59.550AC9FE@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 00:57:14 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide References: <73.3d20458.2669da8f@aol.com> <393B3C2D.DB03E6E2@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LxtlT1.0.LI3.-srEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com D Adams wrote: > re chlorine - reason for removal, pressure from various groups > insisting it is a poison more > toxic than previously described to the public at the standard ppm. > > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> In reply to Rick Monteverde's message of Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:11:55 >> -1000: >> [snip] >> >#3 is paranoid, but not without precedent. They did spray stuff on >> us >> >to test bio weapon dispersal in years past. Secret innoculation >> could >> >be done by simpler means - like drinking water. >> >> This may be more difficult than it sounds. The chlorine in drinking >> water >> knocks out most bacteria, and it might be hard to explain why they >> have >> suddenly stopped chlorinating drinking water. >> [snip] >> >> Regards, >> >> Robin van Spaandonk >> >> It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do >> to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 01:13:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16270; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:11:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:11:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:11:41 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA16247 Resent-Message-ID: <"Uem3T.0.3-3._2sEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Hickman vehicle? Can anyone help this guy below? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:46:41 -0700 From: Buster Anderson To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Comments from billb amform --- comments --- Hickman Perpetual Motion Electric Vehicle (HPMEV) In brief, Allen Hickman spent about 20 years research on converting golf carts and vehicles to run perpetually on battery packs that drive an electric motor. His technology looks straight forward with two battery packs that drives a converted VW bus van. What is different is that on the van, he has a simple wind turbine that drives an alternator that recharges one battery pack while the other pack is doing the work. On city driving or lower speeds, it is under unity but the claim is that at highway speeds, it doesn’t need charging. There is a newspaper article describing a trip from Florida to Washington and back? His notes are dated 2-20-98 and list various book-reports, publications and organizations. Word of mouth is that he has died of cancer since then and was in the Sacramento California area at the last. Also word of mouth is that a local mechanic did most of the actual hard ware installation. If you know of someone that might know of him, an old address for him, a family connection or even better, a phone number for his heirs, please contact me – Buster Anderson, RR 1, Sedgewick, Alberta Canada T0B 4C0 ph/fx 780-384-3630 e-mail beenergy@telusplanet.net Normally I would disregard this story except the newspaper article describing his trip from Florida to Washington and back is intriguing. If anyone wants to purchase the info pack about Allen Hickman, contact me and I’ll let them know who to contact for that. Bill-If you could post the above on your site somewhere, I would appreciate it. If anything positive turns up from that posting, I can get back to you if you want. Thank you - Buster W. Anderson RR 1, Sedgewick, Alberta Canada T0B 4C0 PS Did search on electric rocket posting Dr. S - looked like somewhat the same posting on JN Labs mailing list.Reverse e-mail directory loacation is Hidden Valley? in Ohio. Sent several e-mails - never did get response back? Did you ever get an up date from him? Two people have tried duplicating his work that I know of using Mylor and Capton? instead of wax paper with disappointing results so far. Might be necessary to try wax paper for orgonne effects?? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 01:24:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA19302; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:24:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:24:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:24:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? In-Reply-To: <20000601213151.5934.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"G1wP3.0.Vj4.oEsEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > Speaking of my ignorance, I have shied away from building plates from > multiple pieces Yeah, but the "S" guy claims that he got results with a flat sheet (the one with the slots.) If not for this, I'd suspect that the little squares were a requirement, since the little connecting tabs each lay ABOVE the squares, and this creates a bit of asymmetry throughout the stack. Also, waxpaper is not symmetrical, and one side is shinier than the other. Maybe all the waxpaper layers must be oriented in the same direction. Maybe nobody will see significant forces produced, and we'll never know if it was a hoax, or whether there's a certain "mistake" that is required before the thing will work. > in the belief that it would be better to have the stack > tight with the fewest possible air gaps between the plate and dielectric? The original article and the "S" guy both say that the stack must be compressed in order to work. (Maybe this just increases the capacitance, rather than affecting the electrogravity stuff directly.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 01:54:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA24402; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:53:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:53:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:53:29 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: 2nd gravity-cap report In-Reply-To: <20000602121955843.AAC273@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"iXVUq2.0.Bz5.BgsEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Michael T Huffman wrote: > The "aether exhaust" is a good phrase that I wish I had thought of. With > electrostatics, and especially ball lightning, I think that there are > avenues for the transduction of energy forms into other forms that may > include aether exhaust, and would show itself as gravity shielding. It > could manifest itself in other ways as well (see below). Several years ago, > I would not have thought this, and would have thought that you were too far > out there Bill, but I can see a number of possibilities now that I couldn't > before. I started by temporarily assuming that the report from "S" was valid. Since the device acts like "a rocket with no flame", and since it affects electronics, I reason that perhaps there *IS* an exhaust jet, but not one we can feel. If not aether, then think "dark matter." If Dark Matter has gravity, it would be attracted to planets even though it did not interact with normal atoms. We could be living within a large atmosphere of Dark Matter without knowing it, since its only effect would be to make the planet act heavier than just the iron and rock inside it. If we had some way to stir the stuff, we could make "Dark Matter propellors" or "Dark Matter jet engines." If anyone here succeeds in creating large forces from a capacitor stack, the second thing to do (right after jumping up and down and squealing!) would be to build a second one, and see if it feels the "wind" created by the first one. Make a communicator which uses a pulsed "breeze" of Dark Matter wind. If plasma is the key, then maybe the invisible jet from a gravity capacitor can push on the electric arc from a plasma globe or a Jacob's ladder, or push upon an NE-2 lamp. Speaking of Ball Lightning, the Dark Matter idea suggests that there could be a parallel world connected with our own, but not interacting. If the grav-cap works as a "propellor blade", how would it appear to a creature made of dark matter? Would it look like a glowing cylinder which wanders around, and can pass right through walls? What would happen if a thunderstorm in the Dark Matter world was to create some lightning which struck the grav-cap? Maybe a Ball Lightning in our world is actually some sort of device being carried around by a Dark Matter person in the parallel world, and when lightning in our world happens to pass through the same location, the Dark Matter device is affected and becomes visible. If a Dark Matter person walks around with a Dark Matter cellphone in their pocket, then after the thing is struck by Earth lightning, we see it as a glowing sphere which moves around with suspiciously intelligent behavior. In our world the Ball Lightning explodes after a few seconds. In the Dark Matter world the plasma power-cell in their CD player suddenly stops working for no reason, and they have to go down to the Dark Matter equivalent of Radio Shack and buy a new one. > >If the capacitor claims are real, then maybe the aether is a 4-dimensional > >flow, and the capacitor is like a "windmill blade" that sticks out into > >the flow. The energy supplied by the VDG machine would only be important > >in creating the correct conditions. The capacitor/aether interaction > >would give both antigravity and also act as an energy source. > > Envisioning 4 dimensional flows is still difficult for me, Just think of a flatland analogy. Imagine that a 3-D fluid flows down through the flatland universe without affecting it, and imagine that the flatland beings find a way to make a "tilted paddle" which can deflect it. The "paddle" would experience thrust in one particular direction, and if it was rotated into different positions, the thrust vector would follow. It would behave like a jet engine, but with no jet that the flatlanders could perceive. A 3D flow is creating a force in 2D, and the "paddle" can only move and rotate in 2D. Now in 3D, the 3D beings could rotate their "paddle" throughout three dimensions, rather than the 2D rotation of the flatlander's "paddle." A 4D fluid flow would be deflected by the "paddle", and the device could be turned in any direction and still produce the same thrust, like a rocket with no exhaust. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 01:57:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA25757; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:56:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:56:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:56:53 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap negative results? In-Reply-To: <006301bfcc9a$b8419980$ac1b16cb@rogerdw> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Pd9z_2.0.II6.NjsEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Roger Weichert wrote: > Can I be rude here and throw a spanner in the works :) I just realised > that alternate layers of metallic and organic material make up an orgone > accumulator. Perhaps there is a correlation here and for that reason you > may be better off to stick with wax paper rather than using some sort of > plastic insulator. Right. If we don't know how it works, then any changes to the original instructins could make it stop working. However, the second guy to report success also mentioned that aluminum did work, and mylar did work. But this is another anonymous inventor who doesn't want to talk to the group. Maybe the first anonymous report is right, and the second one is bogus? Or the reverse? Both or neither? Better to succeed first with tin and wax paper before altering the conditions. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 02:02:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA27402; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 02:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 02:01:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 02:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity Cap - "C" In-Reply-To: <20000602175012.23854.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DzJpH2.0.3i6.snsEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > In the success report from "C" dated 5-2-00 there is no mention of a power > supply, was one given? He was talking about 30KV and 75KV supplies with wax paper. He agreed that leakage must be pulling the voltage down below 1KV, since he didn't measure the voltage directly, and he wasn't always blowing out the dielectric. > Is there any word > on if the plates were made from pieces or one piece? Nope. He hasn't responded, and essentially said "so long, good luck" before going silent, so I don't know what he might be thinking. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 02:07:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA30056; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 02:07:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 02:07:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 02:07:21 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: convection towers (was: One more little jab...) In-Reply-To: <001f01bfce5d$96337ba0$aa2f9fca@xplornote> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oeQqc1.0.TL7.BtsEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, xplorer wrote: > The idea seems to remind me of the sci-fi short-story > "Short-Stacks" from circa 1950's: > The premise was that a black plastic tube sufficiently tall would heat > ( from sunshine) the air inside, causing it to rise > generating a self-sustained flow of air from the bottom to the top. > The flow could( at the bottom of the pipe) be directed through > a turbine to generate electricity. > Don't know if it would work, but sounds > like an interesting ( and inexpensive! ) project to try... Recently there was an article about the reverse: an artificial rainstorm tower generates wind-power. Build something like a cooling tower, spray seawater into the top, and the cooled air pours downwards across propellors. A little seawater makes a lot of moving air. The water also eats smog and dumps the concentrated pollutants into the bottom. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 08:38:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA14812; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:33:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:33:48 -0700 Message-ID: <393BC875.50CD06A1@info2000.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 09:34:13 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: convection towers (was: One more little jab...) References: <391EF889.210E9D4@csrlink.net> <001f01bfce5d$96337ba0$aa2f9fca@xplornote> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5LVAN3.0.Ld3.SXyEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com xplorer, There are solar collector systems that use this idea to cycle the water throught the panels and back to storage as long as the storage is at a lower temperature than the panels. It's drawback is that it will vapor-lock is any air gets in the system. Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 08:56:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25688; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:53:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:53:46 -0700 Message-ID: <20000605155310.30271.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.168] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 15:53:10 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"NqChS2.0.CH6.AqyEv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: pseudo VDG for power O.K. this may seem like a stupid question, but I was wondering what would happen if I connected the positive output of my power supply to the inside of an aluminum sphere? I have an 8" sphere with a 3 hole in it. I was reading from the web page . . . ."What would happen if a constant stream of charged beads was delivered to the inside surface of the hollow metal sphere? The sphere would steal their charge, and the excess charge on the sphere would rise and rise without limit!" Would the same be true of the power supply lead? Where would the negative lead go? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 11:50:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13348; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:47:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:47:45 -0700 Message-ID: <393BF68E.DCFC5ED0@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 14:50:54 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: convection towers (was: One more little jab...) References: <391EF889.210E9D4@csrlink.net> <001f01bfce5d$96337ba0$aa2f9fca@xplornote> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MWFnQ3.0.TG3.FN_Ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Actually it would be similar to the "draft" in a chimney. Consider those tall factory smokestacks. The air at their top is always colder than the air at the bottom so they constantly suck a good deal of air through them. That concept has been working for hundreds of years. MJ xplorer wrote: > The idea seems to remind me of the sci-fi short-story > "Short-Stacks" from circa 1950's: > The premise was that a black plastic tube sufficiently tall would heat > ( from sunshine) the air inside, causing it to rise > generating a self-sustained flow of air from the bottom to the top. > The flow could( at the bottom of the pipe) be directed through > a turbine to generate electricity. > Don't know if it would work, but sounds > like an interesting ( and inexpensive! ) project to try... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robin van Spaandonk > To: > Sent: 2000 May 15, Monday 06:46 > Subject: Re: One more little jab... > > | On Sun, 14 May 2000 15:03:37 -0400, Mike Johnston wrote: > | > | >Hi Again, > | > Refer back to my last post and consider the fact that steam > | >rises...without any help....(not to mention hydrogen)and so then the > | >only power required to get that water to the top is the power necessary > | >to maintain the vacuum with the water column at 30 feet... the steam > | >will rise on up to be sucked out of the pipe on it's own.. > | [snip] > | I'm afraid it won't. Steam doesn't rise on it's own the way that you > intend > | (exception follows below). It isn't an anti-gravity thing. It gets pushed > up > | by cold air falling down around it. This only works, if the air can > actually > | displace the steam. In the pipe you are talking about that can't happen, > | because the weight of the water has already compensated for all of the air > | pressure. Now that said, some vapour will indeed reach the top of the > pipe, > | through diffusion. This results in the kinetic energy of the molecules > being > | converted into potential energy, which means the temperature of the vapour > | will drop (temp. is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the > | molecules). This looks to me like it might be a way of converting > | environmental thermal energy into useful energy, but I'm probably wrong. > | > | Regards, > | > | Robin van Spaandonk > | > | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 14:09:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12499; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 14:06:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 14:06:23 -0700 Message-ID: <20000605210540.68304.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.254.40.84] From: "Mehmet Kerim" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 21:05:40 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"wzLRL3.0.733.EP1Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com << Hi Tim, What you wrote below: Maybe true fact for you for where you abide. But that's not the case for me in the rual area. That nasty what ever it was coming down the sky like cotton fibers was all over the place last year, made me and others sick for weeks it was very difficuilt to breath, where were you then, to see what was happining here? So, are you defending some one? by making that statement below? Hmm, whats going on guy? I am talking about experince that I personaly went through. When you spread chemical fiber 7,8 times a day using military aircraft eccross the land some living being is bound get into their that chemical fiber. I must say that where I live at this part of the country (Montana) I see those plains fliying accross the sky many times a day living behaind two large lines of white cloud that last more then hour in the sky. I have to tell you something very interesting: I saw with my own eyes, early it was a crystal clear sky in the moring around 6 and 7 pm few months a go when a few airplains spread that grey cloudy lines shortly after they formed some kind of cloud formation and sky was completly covered and shing Sun light was complety was blocked. I was so panict that day seeing what they have done. I belive it had a merrit for law a suit for blocking the light of the Sun that prevent vegitation to grow, without the effect of the chemical human, animal and organic life. I'll be happy to send you a picures if you so desire to see whats going on here, that you may have greater realization that help you wake up from that dream world you are !!! The fact is, if you know better you would do better, unless you are getting paid by the statements you make, there is no hope f or you. Else, picture worth 1000 words. Mehmet.>> > >There is a pure fact of numbers that would make spraying the population >ineffective... If you fly you would notice that people are not >everywhere... >In fact unless you are flying directly over a city then the likely hood of >anything you drop from an aircraft ever hitting a person is infinitely >small... >This subject has been discussed by pilots for a long time... Just ask one >about a "pilot relief tube" and see what he says... > >Timothy... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 15:01:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06553; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:00:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:00:18 -0700 Message-ID: <393B425B.35B8A9BB@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 02:02:03 -0400 From: "Alik S." X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (OS/2; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide References: <20000605210540.68304.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EGjGk3.0.8c1.lB2Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If all the vapor-trail-watchers got together it should be a relatively simple matter to track down which ex-SAC bases these KC-135/KC-10s come from. 40+ ton loads of this stuff would have to come from whoever makes it by truck or rail (unless its mixed on base). With a little weekend travel you would know who makes the stuff. Could be pretty interesting. Internet may not be the best medium to arrange/organize such effort :-) Another thing that is odd, is that most USAF tankers are flown by ANG/AF-reserve and one would think that there would be stories floating around among weekend-flyers about these missions. It may be an idea to ask the guys on the airplane lists if anything odd has been going on with the tanker aircraft (cleaning them would be lots of fun). In any case, if this is real there has to be a detectable ground infrastructure to support such an activity and at least thousands of people who know about it. (oops , there is a silent black helicopter landin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 19:40:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA08199; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:39:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:39:38 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01bfcf60$532f92e0$efd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:38:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MacH92.0.y_1.fH6Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: Anna M* To: kroniatalk ; blackvault@topica.com ; chaos-stars@egroups.com ; energy21 ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; iufo@topica.com ; MILLENNIUM PROJECT ; skywatch_discussion@egroups.com ; TeslaTurbine@egroups.com ; time@egroups.com ; time-space@egroups.com Date: Saturday, June 03, 2000 10:58 PM Subject: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light >June 4 2000 UNITED STATES > > > > >Eureka! Scientists break speed of light > > >Jonathan Leake, Science Editor > > > > > >SCIENTISTS claim they have broken the ultimate speed barrier: the speed of >light. >In research carried out in the United States, particle physicists have shown >that light pulses can be accelerated to up to 300 times their normal >velocity of 186,000 miles per second. > >The implications, like the speed, are mind-boggling. On one interpretation >it means that light will arrive at its destination almost before it has >started its journey. In effect, it is leaping forward in time. > >Exact details of the findings remain confidential because they have been >submitted to Nature, the international scientific journal, for review prior >to possible publication. > >The work was carried out by Dr Lijun Wang, of the NEC research institute in >Princeton, who transmitted a pulse of light towards a chamber filled with >specially treated caesium gas. > >Before the pulse had fully entered the chamber it had gone right through it >and travelled a further 60ft across the laboratory. In effect it existed in >two places at once, a phenomenon that Wang explains by saying it travelled >300 times faster than light. So Wang isn't sure? > >The research is already causing controversy among physicists. What bothers >them is that if light could travel forward in time it could carry >information. This would breach one of the basic principles in physics - >causality, which says that a cause must come before an effect. It would also >shatter Einstein's theory of relativity since it depends in part on the >speed of light being unbreachable. > >This weekend Wang said he could not give details but confirmed: "Our light >pulses did indeed travel faster than the accepted speed of light. I hope it >will give us a much better understanding of the nature of light and how it >behaves." > >Dr Raymond Chiao, professor of physics at the University of California at >Berkeley, who is familiar with Wang's work, said he was impressedby the >findings. "This is a fascinating experiment," he said. > >In Italy, another group of physicists has also succeeded in breaking the >light speed barrier. In a newly published paper, physicists at the Italian >National Research Council described how they propagated microwaves at 25% >above normal light speed. The group speculates that it could be possible to >transmit information faster than light. > >Dr Guenter Nimtz, of Cologne University, an expert in the field, agrees. He >believes that information can be sent faster than light and last week gave a >paper describing how it could be done to a conference in Edinburgh. He >believes, however, that this will not breach the principle of causality >because the time taken to interpret the signal would fritter away all the >savings. > >"The most likely application for this is not in time travel but in speeding >up the way signals move through computer circuits," he said. > >Wang's experiment is the latest and possibly the most important evidence >that the physical world may not operate according to any of the accepted >conventions. > >In the new world that modern science is beginning to perceive, sub-atomic >particles can apparently exist in two places at the same time - making no >distinction between space and time. > >Separate experiments carried out by Chiao illustrate this. He showed that in >certain circumstances photons - the particles of which light is made - could >apparently jump between two points separated by a barrier in what appears to >be zero time. The process, known as tunnelling, has been used to make some >of the most sensitive electron microscopes. > >The implications of Wang's experiments will arouse fierce debate. Many will >question whether his work can be interpreted as proving that light can >exceed its normal speed - suggesting that another mechanism may be at work. > >Neil Turok, professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge University, said >he awaited the details with interest, but added: "I doubt this will change >our view of the fundamental laws of physics." > >Wang emphasises that his experiments are relevant only to light and may not >apply to other physical entities. But scientists are beginning to accept >that man may eventually exploit some of these characteristics for >inter-stellar space travel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Next page: Trials to start for cocaine 'vaccine' > > > > > > > > > > > > >Next: Trials to start for cocaine 'vaccine' > > > >Copyright 2000 Times Newspapers Ltd. This service is provided on Times >Newspapers' standard terms and conditions. To inquire about a licence to >reproduce material from The Sunday Times, visit the Syndication website. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 20:19:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22404; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:18:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:18:31 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:17:55 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"NyN3f3.0.pT5.7s6Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: ANYONE MADE BIFILAR COIL USING STEEL WIRE!!? HAS ANYONE MADE A BIFILAR COIL (AIR CORE) USING STEEL WIRE FOR THE WINDINGS!? IF SO, WOULD A PERMANENT MAGNET BE ATTRACTED TO THE STEEL WINDINGS WHEN THE COIL HAD STEADY CURRENT FLOW? THANKS, BUTCH From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 20:29:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26738; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:28:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:28:59 -0700 Message-ID: <006101bfcf62$4d1db380$efd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:52:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"TDx0T3.0.zW6.u_6Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: Mehmet Kerim To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, June 05, 2000 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide ><< Hi Tim, >What you wrote below: Maybe true fact for you for where you abide. >But that's not the case for me in the rual area. >That nasty what ever it was coming down the sky like cotton fibers >was all over the place last year, made me and others sick for weeks >it was very difficuilt to breath, where were you then, to see what was >happining here? > So, are you defending some one? by making that statement below? >Hmm, whats going on guy? >I am talking about experince that I personaly went through. >When you spread chemical fiber 7,8 times a day using military aircraft >eccross the land some living being is bound get into their that chemical >fiber. > >I must say that where I live at this part of the country (Montana) I see >those plains fliying accross the sky many times a day living behaind >two large lines of white cloud that last more then hour in the sky. > >I have to tell you something very interesting: I saw with my own eyes, early >it was a crystal clear sky in the moring around 6 and 7 pm few months a go >when a few airplains spread that grey cloudy lines shortly after they >formed some kind of cloud formation and sky was completly covered and shing >Sun light was complety was blocked. >I was so panict that day seeing what they have done. I belive it had a >merrit for law a suit for blocking the light of the Sun that prevent >vegitation to grow, without the effect of the chemical human, animal and >organic life. > >I'll be happy to send you a picures if you so desire to see whats going on >here, that you may have greater realization that help you wake up from that >dream world you are !!! > >The fact is, if you know better you would do better, unless you are getting >paid by the statements you make, there is no hope f or you. Whoa, don't jump to such unlikly conclusions, he has a good argument. You don't have proof that they were spraying noxious chemicals. >Else, picture worth 1000 words. > >Mehmet.>> > >> >>There is a pure fact of numbers that would make spraying the population >>ineffective... If you fly you would notice that people are not >>everywhere... >>In fact unless you are flying directly over a city then the likely hood of >>anything you drop from an aircraft ever hitting a person is infinitely >>small... >>This subject has been discussed by pilots for a long time... Just ask one >>about a "pilot relief tube" and see what he says... >> >>Timothy... > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 20:33:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA29229; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:33:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:33:10 -0700 Message-ID: <002001bfcf68$0039ce40$2c0d813d@oemcomputer> From: "Peter Hu" To: Cc: Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:31:40 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"NJsO7.0.Y87.s37Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: "Qi" in Modern Science Dear Sara: Thanks your email and share same interests. Qi, in modern science, BHS, biological holographic stream, is foundation of our life. It contains the life necessity of genome coding process messagers, biological substances and electrons which is quantumized and flow in our body cross the blood vessel, cell membrane, bone and tissue etc. More likely follow the Jinluo route, as our ancester discovered 5000 years ago and many Qigong master can feel. Control with Qigong both hard and soft can make treating patients with different illness with unbroken whole. I am practising and working many years with the LifeSoft which is digital computerized BHS for people at sub-health condition. It is aiming at Qi becoming more popular and readable like computer software and let every people can control own Qi and make life wellness as much as possible. I am looking for co-research in LifeSoft industrialization. Hope you will be like it. Thanks and Best Regards, Peter Hu -----Original Message----- From: sara mokone To: INTERNET:acupuncture@mailbase.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:24 AM Subject: "Qi" in Modern Science >Message text written by INTERNET:acupuncture@mailbase.ac.uk >>scspm@public.sta.net.cn< > >Dear Dr Peter Hu, > >I have been looking through my mailbox, and found your report on scientific >investigations into Qi circulation. Are you looking at soft qigong and >hard qigong as well? > >I am using qigong both for self-healing, and for treating patients >clinically, and find that the calming effect on distressed patients is very >shortlived > >thanks > >Sara Mokone From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 5 20:50:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03421; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:50:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:50:00 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: ANYONE MADE BIFILAR COIL USING STEEL WIRE!!? Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:42:16 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"su62z1.0.Ir.dJ7Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch. I have not personally made such a coil, although I have read of this being done to economize on core material years back when types of metallic iron were all that was available. It indeed creates more inductance, at the cost of a higher series resistance compared to copper. It saves the trouble of dividing up the core to reduce eddy currents. As to the bifilar part, no I'm not aware of anyone bothering to do this. Kind of defeats the whole point of the inductor, eh? I'd imagine that the magnet would attract, as with a steady current the fields would all but cancel. AC is another story. Why is this important to you? K. -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com [mailto:HLafonte@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 11:18 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; jlnlabs@egroups.com; energy21@listbot.com Subject: [FG]: ANYONE MADE BIFILAR COIL USING STEEL WIRE!!? HAS ANYONE MADE A BIFILAR COIL (AIR CORE) USING STEEL WIRE FOR THE WINDINGS!? IF SO, WOULD A PERMANENT MAGNET BE ATTRACTED TO THE STEEL WINDINGS WHEN THE COIL HAD STEADY CURRENT FLOW? THANKS, BUTCH From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 6 10:27:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31435; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:26:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:26:14 -0700 Message-ID: <20000606172541.99118.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.139] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: pseudo VDG, yeah I know! Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 17:25:40 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"V0tP02.0.3h7.sGJFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com O.K. So it was stupid. I just had to read the rest of the pages for my answer. Now to build the "" thing. Gravity Cap experimentation is on hold while the VDG is under construction. The last test (yesterday) also did not work, so now I'm tearing down my previous models for their waxpaper rings (to save time). I think maybe I'm not getting enough voltage, maxing at about 7.5 kV. Others claim success with sufficiently more than that and a VDG appears to be the generator of choice. I've also put the mylar squares on hold to build the VDG and a ring test model with waxpaper and aluminum built up plates (yeah, all them little squares)I've enough waxpaper rings to do a 30 plate model. With the VDG the new test model should somewhat replicate the success of others. "C" appears to indicate that the parameters are somewhat variable in size and that the potiential is the determining factor. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 6 20:49:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14425; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:49:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:49:03 -0700 From: TropicanaScout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:48:04 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 Resent-Message-ID: <"H6Wxq1.0.EX3.lOSFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Source for Platinum for catalyst The wire costs about 10$ an inch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 6 21:09:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23414; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:08:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:08:25 -0700 Message-ID: <20000607040750.86999.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.225.223] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Source for Platinum for catalyst Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 21:07:50 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"3ntUn.0.lj5.ugSFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com what about the wire mesh screen used on the burner of a portable kerosene room heaters??? Or is that a different metal??? Timothy... >From: TropicanaScout@aol.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: [FG]: Re: Source for Platinum for catalyst >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:48:04 EDT > >The wire costs about 10$ an inch > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 6 21:30:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30385; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:30:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:30:02 -0700 Message-ID: <393DD08A.CA4C7A2@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:33:15 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Source for Platinum for catalyst References: <20000607040750.86999.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BHJIC3.0.cQ7.9_SFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Catalytic converter costs about $100 US. Full of ceramic balls coated with Platinum. MJ Timothy Flytch wrote: > what about the wire mesh screen used on the burner of a portable kerosene > room heaters??? > Or is that a different metal??? > > Timothy... > > >From: TropicanaScout@aol.com > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >Subject: [FG]: Re: Source for Platinum for catalyst > >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:48:04 EDT > > > >The wire costs about 10$ an inch > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 6 21:49:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05402; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:49:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:49:14 -0700 Message-ID: <393DD506.98068545@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:52:22 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wukuI1.0.FK1.AHTFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: REPOST of description of H2 catalysis system Hi All, Remember my little musing from last week about catalyzing the steam from the turbine? Well I thought about it for a second or two and here are the results: (Diagram will be posted on my email list only. Others who want one can get it there H2OPower@listbot.com or email me and I'll send you one direct) I started this little project with the object of finding a way to make water into a viable fuel source. I want it to be that NOW, not 5 or 10 years in the future. I thought it would be fun. It has. It has taken me 6 months or so (an hour or two a week) but I think I'm getting close. If you have followed it you will already know about the stuff I refer to here. If not then the information is available on my email list (address above). Let's consider this as it is now piece by piece. 1) Electrolysis Cell(s): The ideal cell will have Platinum electrodes (inert metal) and use H2SO4 as the electrolyte or something else equally efficient. It will have multiple cells wired in a continuous circuit. The number of cells being figured based on the voltage that is being used in the system. Five cells is the number for 12v electricity at any amperage. 90% efficiency in turning the electrical charge into chemical energy should be possible (actually let's just say 90% of the electricity you put in one end will not be coming out the other). Notice there is a loss here. From the cell the gasses produced will be delivered to our boiler. If you want to put the Water Tower thing in at this point fine. If not that's fine too. That device would work equally well on any steam electric plant such as coal fired or nuclear.... 2) Boiler: A design such as mine will work nicely. Briefly; fuel (H2 gas with O2 oxidizer) is burned inside the boiler in such a manner that total combustion occurs. No outside air needs to be inducted. Pressure is allowed to build to whatever the desired level is to turn the turbine that is being used and then released to said turbine (under pressure) at the same rate that it is being created thus keeping the boiler in equilibrium. Our initial investment of energy here is the gasses that are burned until the desired pressure is reached. Efficiency should be over 90% here. We are releasing chemical energy as heat here. We add pressure to it for free (aside from initial gas investment). Another loss (sigh). 3)Turbine: Since the turbine requires pressure to run the heat losses that are encountered here should still allow us steam at 1100 degrees Celsius to exit the turbine (H2 and O2 burned together in a torch yield 2800 degrees Celsius). Therefore this steam should be able to provide enough heat to cause the catalytic separation of H2 from the steam (in combination with waste heat from the "skin" of the boiler if needed). Such separation of H2 from the steam would be accomplished by one or more of the following well known and accepted methods. a) By running said steam over carbon. C(s) + H2O(g)------------>H2(g) + CO(g) 1000 degrees b) By running said steam over iron. 4H2O(g) + 3Fe(s)------------->Fe3O4(s) + 4H2(g) 1100 degrees c) By running said steam over Platinum. This works with hydrocarbons to form H2 gas so it is just a suggestion. Also running H2 and O2 gasses over Platinum causes them to ignite, so why not? When you run water gas (the product of reaction a) over Fe3O4 you get Fe and CO2 and effectively reverse reaction b. If you run these reactions in line a then b you should end up with the products being H2(g), CO2(g) and some residual steam. It would be nice to have no residual steam but if you do it's not a problem at this point. The engineers can work out the details later. If anyone knows how to crack CO2 into C and O2 let me know (after all, plants do it). The catalytic recovery of H2 from from the turbine exhaust using the waste heat of the steam and or the boiler would take some of the load of fuel production off of the electrolysis unit. This will enable the unit to be powered down or run less without affecting the power output of the system. Or on the other hand, a larger turbine could be used and more energy produced with no additional energy input (beyond the initial level of the electrolysis unit). A converter should be able to run at 70% efficiency or better (automotive ones do). The H2 which is not recovered from the steam by catalysis would be recondensed and used to feed the electrolysis unit. The output of the whole system would look like the following projection. For this example I use pretty much standard output/loss figures. Any of these numbers could be modified by engineering the system better. The point it that building something like this should be possible NOW by using existing technologies and devices with perhaps slight modification. It's not true OU but it's getting close. 1) I assume an electrolysis unit capable of producing 2oz of H2 per minute. 2) A boiler/turbine setup such as the one I designed. 3) A catalytic converter using commonly accepted technology Electrolysis Unit Input from Catalysis Input to Turbine/ Output from Catalysis unit Output (per Minute) Unit (to boiler) (output fromboiler) (70% Efficient) 1 min = 2oz + 0oz = 2oz-----------> 2oz x .7 = 1.4oz 2 min = 2oz + 1.4oz = 3.4oz----------> 3.4oz x .7 = 2.38oz 3 min = 2oz + 2.38oz = 4.38oz---------> 4.38oz x .7 = 3.07oz 4 min = 2oz + 3.07oz = 5.07oz---------> 5.07oz x .7 = 3.55oz 5 min = 2oz + 3.55oz = 5.55oz---------> 5.55oz x .7 = 3.88oz 6 min = 2oz + 3.88oz = 5.88oz---------> 5.88oz x .7 = 4.12oz 7min = 2oz + 4.12oz = 6.12oz---------> 6.12oz x .7 = 4.28oz 8min = 2oz + 4.28oz = 6.28oz---------> 6.28oz x .7 = 4.40oz As you can see, by catalyzing the waste steam from our turbine, we double the amount of available fuel in 3 minutes and triple the amount of available fuel in 7 minutes. This would indicate that we will now be able to produce MORE electricity than what is required to operate the system (in the form of electricity being supplied to the electrolysis unit). This is even WITH all the losses in the system. Thank You, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 04:39:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA05636; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 04:38:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 04:38:33 -0700 Message-ID: <393E3295.FB5D91E3@harti.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:31:33 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xSOrq3.0.vN1.vGZFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Watercar inventor interview ! Hi All, regarding: http://www.overunity.com/watercar/ I spoke today on the phone with Mr. Daniel Dingle. He told me, that he was an engineer working in the USA for over 10 years and also worked for NASA 6 years. He is now 68 years old. In a few days he is flying to Bejing, China, cause the government there wants to look at his invention and probably wants to replace their atomic power plants. Also Taiwan is very much interested. The electrodes in his reactor unit are not consumed and you only need to refill water each 5000 to 10000 miles. The special oil he uses as a coating is probably only inside the motor tubings and inside the cylinder walls to reduce wear and friction, when I have understood him right on the phone, not on the electrolyser plates. Also a little bit unclear is still to me, if he really uses high voltage for his electrolysis. He told me he just uses less than 12 volts and only about 8 to 10 Amperes and the alternator of the car produces about 25 Amperes to recharge the battery. Maybe he meant the input into his electrolyser unit.... He also told me that he also invented a home power supply which runs on a single 12 Volts car battery and which recharges automatically the battery. He has applied for a patent in the Philippines and is going soon for a world patent. He was willing to communicate more when he will be back from Bejing. So far my report on this interesting phone conversation with Mr. Dingle. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 06:14:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03545; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 06:14:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 06:14:11 -0700 Message-ID: <002f01bfd082$635e17e0$af8aa7ca@globalfreeway.com.au> From: "John Conran" To: References: <01b901bfce9e$941ac440$a29cfea9@oemcomputer> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:15:00 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"8xY2Y.0.Bt.ZgaFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light Anna If we can increase the speed that light travels, i.e. by accelerating the photons at what point can this be used to exert an appreciable force and if this is in the future then I guess we could store an appreciable amount of 'energy' for later use simply by firing it into the future. Too late to stop your phaser bolt if you change your mind halfway into shooting someone. But as matter is, in effect, energy, what is there to stop us being accelerated into the future as well. How certain is the experimental procedure in ensuring that the effects of the experiment are not also affecting the measuring equipment? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anna M*" To: ; ; ; "energy21" Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 1:31 PM Subject: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light > More on light speed: > > I would have to add Ralph Sansbury's experiments to this list of evidence > for light that travels faster-than-light. > Sansbury's second experiment was even more eye-opening. > He sent a laser beam toward a detector, with a very fast shutter in from of > it. > The shutter was closed after the beam left the laser, but before it > (according to speed of light) > should have arrived at the shutter. The detector (beyond the shutter) > received some (but not all) of the light. > For a very technical and somewhat hard-to-read version, check out > Sansbury's book at (you need adobe acrobat to read it): > http://www.bestweb.net/~sansbury/book98.PDF > > Sansbury, OTOH, is arguing that the present-day theory of light-speed, > preceding and including Einstein's work, was based on a fundamental > mistake. In his own words [_Gravity and Light_ pg 33] Sansbury says: "I > argue here that Cassini's objections to Roemer's view in 1676 were > well-founded and right and that Halley's zealousness may have helped the > ideas of Bradley in 1720 to gain acceptance, just as it did earlier in 1687 > for the ideas of Newton on light and gravity, but ironically by wrongly > opposing > Cassini he steered the science of physics in the wrong direction." > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 11:33:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05957; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:30:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:30:18 -0700 Message-ID: <393E9553.EAF3EDDF@netzero.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:32:51 -0700 From: blue_eyes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 3 FREENRG CC: 1 NETZERO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7vy5S3.0.sS1.vIfFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: test2 still testing _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 13:53:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04998; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:51:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:51:38 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:42:32 -0700 To: antigravity@primenet.com (Antigravity List) From: Patrick Bailey Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"vrZpH2.0.fD1.PNhFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Antigravity Research Conference: June 24-26 in Reno, NV From: http://www.padrak.com/agn/ Date: June 7, 2000 THE 2000 ANTIGRAVITY RESEARCH CONFERENCE June 24, 25, and 26, 2000 (Saturday, Sunday, and Monday) Reno, Nevada Public Library auditorium at liberty & center street. This conference is being organized by James Cox, publisher of AntiGravity News. SPONSORED BY ANTIGRAVITY NEWS Jim Cox, Editor Ron Kita, Assist www.padrak.com/agn/ Assistance and Support By The Institute for New Energy Patrick Bailey, President www.padrak.com/ine/ THE GOAL The goal of the conference is to provide a forum for independent inventors/experimentalists to network towards developing a practical flying car using gravity/inertial control physics/forces. The entire conference (10 hours) will be video taped by a professional photographer. This is the Second International Conference on Antigravity Research. The Proceedings (Papers) and Videos from the First Conference are available. THE 2ND INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON ANTIGRAVITY RESEARCH PLACE; RENO PUBLIC LIBRARY LIBERTY AND CENTER STREET WHEN: JUNE 24, 25 AND 26 TOPICS: PROGRESS IN INERTIA PROPULSION RESEARCH (ALSO, ELECTROGRAVITATION, HAMEL AG TECHNOLOGY, ELF NULLIFICATION OF INERTIA, AND RF PENDULUM CHANGES) PUBLICATIONS: FULL TEXT PAPERS ARE DUE AT THE CONFERENCE TO PUBLISH IN PROCEEDINGS (ORDER PROCEEDINGS FROM DR. BAILEY) COST: $24/PERSON $12/BARBECUE (SUNDAY AT PARK) $30/INERTIA WORKSHOP (MONDAY) (DISCOUNT PACKAGE: $50 FOR EVERYTHING, IF PAID IN ADVANCE ONLY) PAYABLE TO: JAMES E. COX, ENTERPRISE P.O. BOX 71151 RENO, NEVADA 89570-1151 THE PROGRAM: SATURDAY, JUNE 24, 200O 9:30 MEET AT PIONEER CASINO DELI AREA FOR BADGES (RESERVATIONS: (775)324-7777)) 10:30 INTRODUCTION (JIM COX) 11:00 HISTORY/DEMO OF ELECTROGRAVITATION (200 KV DC TEN FOOT DIA. DEVICE!) BY DAVID ROSIGNOLI, PENNSYLVANIA, USA 12:00 LUNCH BREAK (Sandwiches, Laithwaite video) 1:00 PROGRESS IN INERTIAL PROPULSION-PART 1 (SPIN ANOMALIES AND GYRO THRUST ACTION) By Jim Cox RENO, NEVADA, USA. 2:00 TEST RESULTS OF deAQUINO GRAVITY NULLIFICATION EXPERIMENT BY STEVE BURNS LEXINGTON, MASSACHUSETTS, USA 3:00 BREAK (RICHARD FOSTER--GYROTHRUST PIONEER--video BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA, US) 3:30 SUPERSYMMETRY, AND QUANTUM LEVEL METRIC DISTORTION BY DAVID SCHROEDER FALMOUTH, MASSACHUSETTS 4:3O: DISCUSSION 4:45 END OF DAY'S SESSIONS 6:00 DINNER AT RENO "THE AERO CLUB" RESTAURANT AT Flint and California Streets. SUNDAY, JUNE 25, 2000 12:30 AGENDA REVIEW 1:00 INERTIAL PROPULSION PROGRESS PART II: VERTICAL THRUST FROM GRAVITY LOADED INERTIAL OSCILLATOR--JIM COX 2:00 PROPELLANTLESS ELECTROMAGNETIC PROPULSION (RF TOROIDAL COIL PENDULUM TESTS) BY DR. STAVROS G. DIMITRIOUS ATHENS, GREECE 3:00 OVERVIEW OF RUSSIAN INERTIAL PROPULSION DR. ALEX. FROLOV ST. PETERSBURG, RUSSIA 3:45 BREAK 4:00 UPDATE ON HAMEL TECHNOLOGY BY STEVEN DUFRESNE VANIER, ONTARIO, CANADA 4:45 END OF DAY'S SESSIONS 6:00 BARBECUE AT IDLEWILD PARK MONDAY, JUNE 26, 2000 10:30 AGENDA REVIEW 11:00 SURPRISE SPEAKER 12:00 LUNCH BREAK (TOM BEARDEN VIDEO) 1:00 GYROTHRUST WORKSHOP--JIM COX *THEORY *EXPERIMENTS/DEMO'S *PATENT LITERATURE *NEW DESIGNS 3:00 GRAVITO-INERTIAL LIFT WORKSHOP--JIM COX *THEORY *EXPERIMENTS/DEMO'S *REFERENCE/PATENT LITERATURE *NEW DESIGNS 5:00 PANEL DISCUSSION 6:00 END OF CONFERENCE QUESTIONS Problems/questions? Contract me directly at (775) 323-5796 ext. 127 (day or night) or Kita at (215) 345-0461. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 13:57:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00370; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:46:15 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: Patrick Bailey Cc: antigravity@primenet.com (Antigravity List) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id NAA00140 Resent-Message-ID: <"12j_E2.0.O5.hQhFv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Call For Papers: INE ISNE Symposium: Sept. 2000, SLC, UT From: http://www.padrak.com/ine/INECONF00.html Date: June 7, 2000 INE 2000 SYMPOSIUM FOR NEW ENERGY Friday and Saturday, September 8 - 9, 2000 The Salt Palace, Downtown Salt Lake City, Utah CALL FOR PAPERS: The INE is now soliciting papers for the ISNE 2000. The deadline to submit abstracts is July 1, 2000. Due to recent confusion with the INE Office in Salt Lake City, it is recommended that all abstracts be sent ASAP by email to BOTH: Patrick Bailey, President, INE, at ine@padrak.com, and to Hal Fox, at the INE Office, at halfox@slkc.uswest.net. The paper deadline date is August 15. Further details, such as format instructions will be forthcoming. Authors are expected to use either Word or WordPerfect on a PC based computer and to submit their final paper file in camera-ready format by either mailed disk, or email. Description of the ISNE: THE 2000 ISNE CONFERENCE: The INE-2000 Symposium on New Energy will be held in the Salt Palace in beautiful downtown Salt Lake City, Utah on Friday and Saturday, September 8 and 9, 2000. This location is about one or two blocks from Temple Square. Registration cost is $100 until August 15, and $150 if postmarked after August 15. This payment will include a published copy of the proceedings of the conference. It is expected that the proceedings will be published in the Journal of New Energy, as was done last year. Dr. Patrick Bailey, President of the INE, will be the Conference Chairman. It is expected that most attendees will be arriving on Thursday afternoon and evening, and transportation arrangements may be able to be made for attendees who communicate such wishes in advance. Several hotels will be listed for low price accommodations (see below). Please be aware that downtown Salt Lake City is always a popular place for travel and business meetings, so make your travel reservations early! CONFERENCE UPDATES: Please visit THIS FILE on the INE Website for further information that will be included on the top of this page as the conference agenda becomes updated: This INE Website Page is: www.padrak.com/ine/INECONF00.html. CONFERENCE TOPICS: At the present time, the topics area is open. However, the INE would like to see papers that include actual test data. Many authors like to present papers with their theory first, then perform an experiment, and then report their data. Many new energy researchers think this is backwards! To uncover new physics and to make new significant advances, the ordering of such research may better very well be: Experiment, Data, Wonder, Think of a mathematical analog. The conference topics may be limited as the conference approaches, so get your abstracts in soon! NOTICE TO SPEAKERS: Abstracts of presentations to be made at the conference are due August 15, 2000. Papers to be published must be provided at the conference to be included in the Conference Proceedings. We are looking forward to a great conference! MOTELS (Call directly; make your reservations early): Old Data from 1999! Here are the motels that we advertized last year - these prices may have changed. We will update this list later: Quality Inn City Center, 154 W 500 S (801) 521-2930, Toll Free 800-521-9997 5 blocks from Salt Palace; shuttle service to Salt Palace, or within free bus zone; full American breakfast; 2 good restaurants, American & Mexican; swimming pool; self-regulated air cond.; Airport shuttle service Corporate Rooms: $58 single, $62 double Standard Rooms: $49 single, $52 double **** Desert Inn, 50 W 500 S, (801) 532-2900 3 Ç blocks from Salt Palace; within free bus zone; no breakfast; few amenities, but clean; ask for best air conditioning Rooms: $29.95 single, $32.95 double **** Some other hotels/motels downtown are: Shilo Downtown Hotel, 206 S West Temple $109, $69 weekend rate (801) 521-9500 or Toll Free 800-222-2244 *** Marriott Hotel, 75 S West Temple, $145 corporate rate, $155 standard rate (801) 531-0800 or Toll Free 800-228-9290 *** Doubletree Hotel, 255 S West Temple, $89, (801) 328-2000 or Toll Free 800-222- 8733 Hampton Inn, 425 S 300 W, $69 (801) 741-1110 === ===== ======= From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 14:03:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01088; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:58:48 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: Patrick Bailey Cc: antigravity@primenet.com (Antigravity List) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"6Mc6w3.0.qG.KWhFv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The Institute for New Energy Website Has Been Updated! The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All new revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ June 7, 2000 Added: New Table of Contents Pages for Subjects and Authors Subjects Index - Table of Contents Authors Index - Table of Contents Updated: Subjects and Authors Site Counter = 522,868 June 6, 2000 Added: NEN Selected Articles: Sept. - Dec. 1999: NEN Vol. 6, No. 13 - Dec. 1999: The First Email Edition of NEN The Future New Energy IPOs The Man Who Discovered Under-Water Charge Clusters Committee For New Energy Applications (CNEA) Letter To A Detractor (Dr. Sing) Letter To Patrick Bailey (INE President): RE: Controlling Technology INE Criteria For Analyzing And Documenting Devices The Environmental News Network - Your Free Energy Channel NEN Vol. 6, No. 12 - Nov. 1999: New Energy News To Go E-Mail Saving America's Economic System Special Edition of Journal of New Energy: JNE Vol. 4, No. 1 New Electromagnetic Equations Researcher Unveils Unique New Class of Hydride Compounds News From Slovakia -- Interenergoresurs's Achievements GEET Releases Technology For Free! Letter From Henry Curtis; Regarding the INE Conference New Web Links - From Pea Research Easy Money II (Offering A $2,000.00 Reward) New Energy Mutual Fund Video Tapes of the INE-99 Conference NEN Vol. 6, No. 11 - Sept. 1999: INE-99 Symposium Schedule COFE Proceedings Available Have We Discovered the "Neno?" Transverse And Longitudinal Waves Balance In Research and Development The Whispering Pond - A Book Review Letter From A Senator To DOE Letter To Inspector General Updated: Subjects and Authors JNE Summaries Site Counter = 522,868 June 1, 2000 Added: CALL FOR PAPERS, THE ISNE 2000, Sept. 8-9, 2000, SLC INE 2000 Symposium For New Energy Added: Status Report to the INE Membership (Emailed May 25, 2000) Announcements of Meetings Subjects and Authors Working on: 28 NEN articles from Nov. 1999 - Jan/Feb. 2000 Site Counter = 521,328 May 31, 2000 Added: Journal of New Energy files, Vol. 4, No.s 1, 2, & 3. "The Physics of Nuclean Energies and Fuels According to Hadronic Mechanics," JNE Vol. 4, No. 1, Summer 1999. "PROCEEDINGS 1999 SYMPOSIUM ON LOW ENERGY NUCLEAR REACTIONS AND NEW ENERGY," JNE Vol. 4, No. 2, Fall 1999. "Higher Symmetry Electromagnetics: A Collection of AIAS Papers," JNE Vol. 4, No. 3, Winter 1999. Added: NEN Table of Contents for Vol. 6, No's. 11, 12, & 13 (Issues for Sept., Nov., and Dec. 1999) Updated: JNE Summaries, Vol. 4 People and Organizations Fabulous Facts File Site Counter = 521,002 Nov. 2, 1999 Updated: Various files with new address data. Minor corrections to the main page. Fabulous Facts File Site Counter = 434,340 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 15:16:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10491; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:15:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:15:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:32:13 -0700 To: pgb@padrak.com (BCC to: INE_Regs List: > 1650 Emails) From: Patrick Bailey Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"XrL2E.0.jZ2.rbiFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The Institute for New Energy Website Has Just Been Updated! The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All new revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ June 7, 2000 Added: New Table of Contents Pages for Subjects and Authors Subjects Index - Table of Contents Authors Index - Table of Contents Updated: Subjects and Authors Site Counter = 522,868 June 6, 2000 Added: NEN Selected Articles: Sept. - Dec. 1999: NEN Vol. 6, No. 13 - Dec. 1999: The First Email Edition of NEN The Future New Energy IPOs The Man Who Discovered Under-Water Charge Clusters Committee For New Energy Applications (CNEA) Letter To A Detractor (Dr. Sing) Letter To Patrick Bailey (INE President): RE: Controlling Technology INE Criteria For Analyzing And Documenting Devices The Environmental News Network - Your Free Energy Channel NEN Vol. 6, No. 12 - Nov. 1999: New Energy News To Go E-Mail Saving America's Economic System Special Edition of Journal of New Energy: JNE Vol. 4, No. 1 New Electromagnetic Equations Researcher Unveils Unique New Class of Hydride Compounds News From Slovakia -- Interenergoresurs's Achievements GEET Releases Technology For Free! Letter From Henry Curtis; Regarding the INE Conference New Web Links - From Pea Research Easy Money II (Offering A $2,000.00 Reward) New Energy Mutual Fund Video Tapes of the INE-99 Conference NEN Vol. 6, No. 11 - Sept. 1999: INE-99 Symposium Schedule COFE Proceedings Available Have We Discovered the "Neno?" Transverse And Longitudinal Waves Balance In Research and Development The Whispering Pond - A Book Review Letter From A Senator To DOE Letter To Inspector General Updated: Subjects and Authors JNE Summaries Site Counter = 522,868 June 1, 2000 Added: CALL FOR PAPERS, THE ISNE 2000, Sept. 8-9, 2000, SLC INE 2000 Symposium For New Energy Added: Status Report to the INE Membership (Emailed May 25, 2000) Announcements of Meetings Subjects and Authors Working on: 28 NEN articles from Nov. 1999 - Jan/Feb. 2000 Site Counter = 521,328 May 31, 2000 Added: Journal of New Energy files, Vol. 4, No.s 1, 2, & 3. "The Physics of Nuclean Energies and Fuels According to Hadronic Mechanics," JNE Vol. 4, No. 1, Summer 1999. "PROCEEDINGS 1999 SYMPOSIUM ON LOW ENERGY NUCLEAR REACTIONS AND NEW ENERGY," JNE Vol. 4, No. 2, Fall 1999. "Higher Symmetry Electromagnetics: A Collection of AIAS Papers," JNE Vol. 4, No. 3, Winter 1999. Added: NEN Table of Contents for Vol. 6, No's. 11, 12, & 13 (Issues for Sept., Nov., and Dec. 1999) Updated: JNE Summaries, Vol. 4 People and Organizations Fabulous Facts File Site Counter = 521,002 Nov. 2, 1999 Updated: Various files with new address data. Minor corrections to the main page. Fabulous Facts File Site Counter = 434,340 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 15:16:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09669; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001901bfd0cc$fd9d1820$19e3fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: References: <01b901bfce9e$941ac440$a29cfea9@oemcomputer> <002f01bfd082$635e17e0$af8aa7ca@globalfreeway.com.au> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:09:00 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"RDrbM.0.tM2.-biFv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light The magnificent future that we will never see, unless we are "that" fired energy. I rather have it all now. Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Conran" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 6:15 AM Subject: [FG]: Re: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light > Anna > > If we can increase the speed that light travels, i.e. by accelerating the > photons > at what point can this be used to exert an appreciable force and if this is > in the > future then I guess we could store an appreciable amount of 'energy' for > later > use simply by firing it into the future. > > Too late to stop your phaser bolt if you change your mind halfway into > shooting someone. > > But as matter is, in effect, energy, what is there to stop us being > accelerated into > the future as well. How certain is the experimental procedure in ensuring > that the > effects of the experiment are not also affecting the measuring equipment? > > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anna M*" > To: ; ; ; > "energy21" > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 1:31 PM > Subject: [FG]: Eureka! Scientists break speed of light > > > > More on light speed: > > > > I would have to add Ralph Sansbury's experiments to this list of evidence > > for light that travels faster-than-light. > > Sansbury's second experiment was even more eye-opening. > > He sent a laser beam toward a detector, with a very fast shutter in from > of > > it. > > The shutter was closed after the beam left the laser, but before it > > (according to speed of light) > > should have arrived at the shutter. The detector (beyond the shutter) > > received some (but not all) of the light. > > For a very technical and somewhat hard-to-read version, check out > > Sansbury's book at (you need adobe acrobat to read it): > > http://www.bestweb.net/~sansbury/book98.PDF > > > > Sansbury, OTOH, is arguing that the present-day theory of light-speed, > > preceding and including Einstein's work, was based on a fundamental > > mistake. In his own words [_Gravity and Light_ pg 33] Sansbury says: "I > > argue here that Cassini's objections to Roemer's view in 1676 were > > well-founded and right and that Halley's zealousness may have helped the > > ideas of Bradley in 1720 to gain acceptance, just as it did earlier in > 1687 > > for the ideas of Newton on light and gravity, but ironically by wrongly > > opposing > > Cassini he steered the science of physics in the wrong direction." > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 16:08:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02036; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:07:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:07:32 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Watercar inventor interview ! Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:07:06 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <393E3295.FB5D91E3@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <393E3295.FB5D91E3@harti.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA01917 Resent-Message-ID: <"tqbmf.0.ZV.oMjFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Stefan Hartmann's message of Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:31:33 +0200: [snip] >The special oil he uses as a coating is probably only inside the >motor tubings and inside the cylinder walls to reduce wear and >friction, when I have understood him right on the phone, ...and that's exactly where it would need to be if it were functioning as a hydrino catalyst. I.e. where it would be exposed to atomic hydrogen during the combustion process. >not on the electrolyser plates. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 16:11:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04350; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:10:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:10:20 -0700 Message-ID: <001101bfd0d5$66aba680$cdd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Source for Platinum for catalyst Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 19:09:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"eafTg2.0.t31.SPjFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I saw that on the History channel the other day. I forgot what the metal used is, all I know is it's not platinum. -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Flytch To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Source for Platinum for catalyst >what about the wire mesh screen used on the burner of a portable kerosene >room heaters??? >Or is that a different metal??? > >Timothy... > >>From: TropicanaScout@aol.com >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: [FG]: Re: Source for Platinum for catalyst >>Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:48:04 EDT >> >>The wire costs about 10$ an inch >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 16:31:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13935; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:30:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:30:55 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01bfd0d8$4ab73fe0$cdd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 19:29:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFD0B6.C2778020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"wFT2a3.0.aP3.lijFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: time travel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFD0B6.C2778020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I am doubtful that the conclusions = made by these scientists are correct. When dealing experimentally with = the speed of light mistakes are often made.=20 A friend of mine had a theory once that I disregarded as foolish. = His theory was that the "speed of light" was actually the speed at which = something travels forward through time. Actually, that's MY take on his = theory, his original theory wasn't so clean and outlined, it WAS = actually quite foolish in my opinion. Anyway, that would explain this = phenomenon, maybe. I personally don't believe this because, well, I = never really thought about that...anyone have a good refutation to back = me up? ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFD0B6.C2778020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves. = I am=20 doubtful that the conclusions made by these scientists are correct. When = dealing=20 experimentally with the speed of light mistakes are often made. =
 
    A friend of mine had a theory = once that I=20 disregarded as foolish. His theory was that the "speed of light" was = actually=20 the speed at which something travels forward through time. Actually, = that's MY=20 take on his theory, his original theory wasn't so clean and outlined,=20 it WAS actually quite foolish in my opinion. Anyway, that would = explain=20 this phenomenon, maybe. I personally don't believe this because, well, I = never=20 really thought about that...anyone have a good refutation to back me=20 up?
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFD0B6.C2778020-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 18:29:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03192; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:28:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:28:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bfd0e8$b525b2c0$a7d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 21:27:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFD0C7.2D418080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Sdsuq2.0.in.xQlFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: water engine thingy... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFD0C7.2D418080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How difficult would it be to make a "water engine thingy" run on = salt water instead of non-salt water? I know this doesn't really need to = be asked since we have so much non-salt water, but if non-salt water is = practical fuel, salt water is millions of times more practical (y'know, = since there's millions more miles of salt water...). Please don't laugh = at me... ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFD0C7.2D418080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    How difficult would it be to make = a "water=20 engine thingy" run on salt water instead of non-salt water? I know this = doesn't=20 really need to be asked since we have so much non-salt water, but if = non-salt=20 water is practical fuel, salt water is millions of times more practical = (y'know,=20 since there's millions more miles of salt water...). Please don't laugh = at=20 me...
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFD0C7.2D418080-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 18:50:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13917; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:49:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:49:59 -0700 Message-ID: <393EFC81.DA237FF6@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:53:05 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... References: <000d01bfd0e8$b525b2c0$a7d666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lic5Q.0.FP3.7llFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Chris, Salt water would be fine in some respects. Namely if you are planning to electrolyze the water. Salt is an electrolyte. However, if you kept using salt water then you would soon end up with too much electrolyte because the water would be leaving (due to the electrolysis) and all of the minerals it had contained would be left behind.. Not to mention the various other metals and chemicals that would be present. Also, during electrolysis, whatever chemicals that are in the water stand a good chance of taking part in the reaction and either acting on the electrodes by destroying them (combining with them) or forming sediments or releasing unwanted gasses such as chlorine, nitrogen, etc. I imagine that any large scale use of water as a fuel would require the use of sea water eventually, either because of demand or simple availability. Still, it would have to be either distilled or evaporated and condensed to be really useful, in my opinion. MJ Chris O'Barr wrote: > How difficult would it be to make a "water engine thingy" run on > salt water instead of non-salt water? I know this doesn't really need > to be asked since we have so much non-salt water, but if non-salt > water is practical fuel, salt water is millions of times more > practical (y'know, since there's millions more miles of salt > water...). Please don't laugh at me... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 21:14:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17498; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 21:13:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 21:13:21 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:13:04 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000d01bfd0e8$b525b2c0$a7d666ce@default> <393EFC81.DA237FF6@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <393EFC81.DA237FF6@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA17467 Resent-Message-ID: <"Np8a91.0.JH4.XrnFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:53:05 -0400: [snip] >availability. Still, it would have to be either distilled or evaporated >and condensed to be really useful, in my opinion. [snip] ....and if we have engines running on water, then energy for the distillation process is cheap, so indirectly, salt water wouldn't be a problem. In fact distillation would probably become cheap enough to find wide scale use for the production of fresh water all over the world. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 22:53:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32557; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:53:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:53:11 -0700 Message-ID: <393F3559.6161D98C@csrlink.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 01:55:38 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... References: <000d01bfd0e8$b525b2c0$a7d666ce@default> <393EFC81.DA237FF6@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HJJB53.0.Sy7.7JpFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hi robin, yes, exactly. also the salts, minerals and metals left behind by the distillation of sea water could be processed and sold for additional savings/income. MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:53:05 -0400: > [snip] > >availability. Still, it would have to be either distilled or evaporated > >and condensed to be really useful, in my opinion. > [snip] > ....and if we have engines running on water, then energy for the > distillation process is cheap, so indirectly, salt water wouldn't be a > problem. In fact distillation would probably become cheap enough to find > wide scale use for the production of fresh water all over the world. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 7 23:24:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08835; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:21:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:21:08 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 02:20:36 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_aa.61bd115.26709534_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"jYr_s2.0.i92.KjpFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Check this out! --part1_aa.61bd115.26709534_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See attached, web page will have same drawing by tomorrow. Will post when on site. --part1_aa.61bd115.26709534_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="BUTCHOU.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BUTCHOU.gif" R0lGODdh0AIBAvcAAAAAAAAA/3t7e5ycnL29vf8AAP97AP97e/+cnP+9vf////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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--part1_aa.61bd115.26709534_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 05:13:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA16374; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 05:12:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 05:12:43 -0700 Message-ID: <20000608121210.16518.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.83.14] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:12:10 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"cHXqm3.0.l_3.wsuFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If you think about it the "residue" might be of the most value. I think I read somewhere that every element is in sea water, something about so many ounces of gold for every cubic mile of sea water. The resulting "fuel" might actually be the by product of mining the sea! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 07:43:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA18962; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:43:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:43:02 -0700 Message-ID: <20000608144230.21468.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.83.14] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:42:30 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"K8ylK2.0.7e4.s3xFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: More Gravity Cap While digging through some Biefeld-Brown stuff on Keelynet, I ran across a tidbit that may clarify some failures. "Electro-static sources such as the Van de Graff and Wimshurst machines are required for anti-gravity research." Up to this point I've not been using an electro-static source and from what I've seen neither have some of the other experimenters. I'm not sure, but I believe the success that Jean-Louis Naudin has had with his "Poynting Flow" experiments was with the use of an electro-static generator of some kind (if in error, please advise). I am currently in the process of gathering the components of a VDG. I've no experience with this device and was wondering if someone could tell me how I might measure its output? Colin ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 07:57:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25484; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:56:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:56:48 -0700 Message-ID: <393FB4EE.481C0C1B@csrlink.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:59:58 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dp3Pt1.0.zD6.mGxFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Platinum from catalytic converters Hi All, I'm working on another large and informative post but in the meantime I just wanted to mention that I heard from Michael Graetzel (the Swiss Scientist who invented the catalyst to separate water using sunlight). He told me that the catalyst consisted of TiO2 loaded with RuO2 and Pt. Remember I said the "stuff" from inside an automotive catalytic converter might be a god source of platinum (inexpensive)? I checked with a local junk yard and yes, they do recycle them, but he was willing to sell one to me for 15-20$ US. Not bad compared to a new one. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 09:22:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA21328; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:21:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:21:50 -0700 Message-ID: <001601bfd165$7dfb8180$47d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:20:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qlAy72.0.9D5.UWyFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com That wouldn't give them much income though, the elements are very spread out, very spread out. -----Original Message----- From: Colin Cain To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, June 08, 2000 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... >If you think about it the "residue" might be of the most value. I think I >read somewhere that every element is in sea water, something about so many >ounces of gold for every cubic mile of sea water. The resulting "fuel" might >actually be the by product of mining the sea! >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 10:24:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09285; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:24:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:24:11 -0700 Message-ID: <20000608172319.31251.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.83.49] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:23:19 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"V3yrJ3.0.bG2.uQzFv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com That is quiet true, but taken as a whole, the content of the water in the oceans could be profitable, if you take into account the biological material as well. A subject for another thread? >From: "Chris O'Barr" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... >Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:20:41 -0400 > > That wouldn't give them much income though, the elements are very >spread >out, very spread out. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Colin Cain >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Thursday, June 08, 2000 8:13 AM >Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... > > > >If you think about it the "residue" might be of the most value. I think I > >read somewhere that every element is in sea water, something about so >many > >ounces of gold for every cubic mile of sea water. The resulting "fuel" >might > >actually be the by product of mining the sea! > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 10:53:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08424; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:52:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:14:24 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <004a01bfd0d8$4ab73fe0$cdd666ce@default> In-Reply-To: <004a01bfd0d8$4ab73fe0$cdd666ce@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0006081219450F.01482@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id KAA08387 Resent-Message-ID: <"u28tZ2.0.W32.6rzFv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 07 Jun 2000, Chris O'Barr wrote: > > His theory was that the "speed of light" was actually the speed at which > something travels forward through time. Actually, that's MY take on his > theory, his original theory wasn't so clean and outlined, it WAS > actually quite foolish in my opinion. Anyway, that would explain this > phenomenon, maybe. I personally don't believe this because, well, I > never really thought about that...anyone have a good refutation to back > me up? My take is that the 'the speed of light' is the fastest an object can travel while still reamining in our particular 3D space. Travelling faster than c would cause an object to 'skip' points (or nodes as it may be), essentially exisiting in multiple 3D planes at once. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 11:06:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA21184; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:06:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:06:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:03:14 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: More Gravity Cap In-Reply-To: <20000608144230.21468.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v-pJL3.0.mA5.92-Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > I am currently in the process of gathering the components of a VDG. I've no > experience with this device and was wondering if someone could tell me how I > might measure its output? This page on my site has some clues: "Static electricity" means "high voltage" http://www.amasci.com/emotor/voltmeas.html Number 5 is the typical method: build a crude "field mill", but don't use the brass ball described, instead set up the field mill several feet away from your VDG. Calibrate the system by applying a known voltage to the VDG sphere (say, a 1kv DC power supply), then remove the calibration suppl;y and run the VDG normally to measure its voltage. With VDGs, usually the output current is the important feature. Just connect a microamp meter between the VDG sphere and ground, then run the VDG and measure this short-circuit current. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 11:14:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA25582; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:13:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:13:37 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <57.6b9ea64.26712e9a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:15:06 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"BFOl_1.0.ZF6.H9-Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Web page has drawing now My web page has drawing of new design now. LaFonte Research Site 1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 11:41:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00360; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:40:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:40:05 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 11:39:01 -0700 From: "Rick Dunn" To: , , , Subject: Re: [FG]: Web page has drawing now Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_DA82D15C.4C2D4394" Resent-Message-ID: <"RpkLl.0.s4.2Y-Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15584 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_DA82D15C.4C2D4394 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have you tested this setup yet? It would be interesting to see if the = rotor would have enough torque to drive a generator of some kind. Rick >>> HLafonte@aol.com 06/08/00 11:13AM >>> My web page has drawing of new design now. LaFont= e=20 Research Site 1=20 --=_DA82D15C.4C2D4394 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML
Have you tested this setup yet? It would be interesting= to see=20 if the rotor would have enough torque to drive a generator of some=20 kind.
 
Rick

>>> HLafonte@aol.com 06/08/00 11:13AM=20 >>>
My web page has drawing of new design now.
<A=20 HREF=3D"http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html">LaF= onte=20
Research Site 1</A>

--=_DA82D15C.4C2D4394-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 12:19:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA09351; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:18:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:18:32 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <37.639df77.26714b2f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:17:03 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_37.639df77.26714b2f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"8Nsov2.0.pH2.86_Fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Option 2 LaFonte o/u generator --part1_37.639df77.26714b2f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See attached Thanks, Butch 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freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:56:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"jfGP21.0.oB4._A3Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I agree Mike, Modern power plants use sea water all the time! Only about 3% of the water they pump is really used... The rest is just for cooling and flushing... But I have yet to hear of a single one that produces drinking water!!! People just can"t except it... Call it "politicly incorrect"??? They could, they just don't... Timothy... >Hi Chris, > Salt water would be fine in some respects. Namely if you are >planning to electrolyze the water. Salt is an electrolyte. However, if >you kept using salt water then you would soon end up with too much >electrolyte because the water would be leaving (due to the electrolysis) >and all of the minerals it had contained would be left behind.. Not to >mention the various other metals and chemicals that would be present. >Also, during electrolysis, whatever chemicals that are in the water >stand a good chance of taking part in the reaction and either acting on >the electrodes by destroying them (combining with them) or forming >sediments or releasing unwanted gasses such as chlorine, nitrogen, etc. >I imagine that any large scale use of water as a fuel would require the >use of sea water eventually, either because of demand or simple >availability. Still, it would have to be either distilled or evaporated >and condensed to be really useful, in my opinion. >MJ > >Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > How difficult would it be to make a "water engine thingy" run on > > salt water instead of non-salt water? I know this doesn't really need > > to be asked since we have so much non-salt water, but if non-salt > > water is practical fuel, salt water is millions of times more > > practical (y'know, since there's millions more miles of salt > > water...). Please don't laugh at me... > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 19:35:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24543; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:34:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:34:38 -0700 Message-ID: <003201bfd1bb$7fca09e0$67f04ed8@pavilion> From: "Joe May" To: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:36:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01BFD199.F7597620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Yw5Tw.0.J_5.-U5Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: remove from list This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BFD199.F7597620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BFD199.F7597620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BFD199.F7597620-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 19:53:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02371; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:53:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:53:33 -0700 Message-ID: <001101bfd1cf$4ff2a240$0200a8c0@twistedfella> From: "Jake Courrier" To: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:58:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFD194.A29FA640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"TcvGt2.0.qa.jm5Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15588 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Here Try This READ IT CAREFULLY (IT's Legal) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFD194.A29FA640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Hello Every One Out There, Have you ever gotten one of those emails that tell you that you could = make a fortune If you invest in a certain company or mutual fund or if = you put you money in a ROTH IRA. Don't get me wrong I have made many = investments in recent months and I have made some pretty good gains and = had some rather minute losses. =20 The other day I opened my E-mailbox and I began my daily routine of = deleting the junk-mail and that is when I came across this interesting = email that told me about a boy who had made 71,000 in just over 2 moths = by doing this very same thing it also said that said I could make good = money just by emailing people on my spare time and I thought to myself = "this is too good to be true" and as I read on I became increasingly = convinced by the letter and Decided what could it hurt. Now this is completely and 100% legal according to the according to = US Postal and Lottery Laws, Title 18, Section 1302 and 1341, or Title = 18, Section 3005 in the US code, also in the code of federal = regulations, Volume 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state a product or = service must be exchanged for money received. The instructions as they = were given to me stated that when you received the email send the person = at the top of the list a 5-dollar bill and a note that says; "Please, = add me to you mailing list" Along with your email address then delete the person at the top of the = list and add you're to the bottom. If you delete the persons name at = the top and put you name at the top to start with the email will not get = distributed as widely and you will not get as big of a return or as much = cash. I'm not saying that this is a sure fire way to make some big = money and I'm not saying quit your job and do this full-time but I = already mailed out my 5 dollars and now I'm sending this message to as = many people as I can with hope of a cash return but If it doesn't work = there is no harm done because there is no money invested and no actual = risk.=20 Well here are the names - mail you 5 dollars with a message to add you = to your mailing list and begin sending out this message: 1.Corey John P.O. Box 26001 Fredericton, N.B. E3A 5V8 =20 2.Cheri Lynn=20 403 N. Montgomery St.=20 Ojai, CA 93023 3.Jake Courrier=20 59454 80th St.=20 Walters, MN 56097 Here is a little insight on how much money you could possibly make. = Then, those 400 people will move your name up to the top and they will = each send out 20 E-mails. That totals 8,000 people that will receive = this E-mail with your name at the top and they will each send you a $5 = bill. 8,000 people each sending you a $5 bill =3D $40,000 cash. That's = if everyone responds to this E-mail, but not everyone will, so you can = expect more realistically to receive about $10,000 cash $5 bills in your = mailbox. This will work for anyone, anywhere in the world in any = country, but send only a US CASH $5 bill. The more E-mails you send out, = the more cash you will receive. If each person sends out 100 E-mails, = there will be 1,000,000 people that receive this letter when your name = reaches the top. If only 1% of those people respond, you will still get = $50,000 cash. =20 Remember to follow the steps exactly and remember; HAVE FUN -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFD194.A29FA640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 =20

Hello Every One Out = There,

  Have you ever gotten one of = those emails=20 that tell you that you could make a fortune If you invest in a certain = company=20 or mutual fund or if you put you money in a ROTH IRA.  Don’t get me wrong I = have made many=20 investments in recent months and I have made some pretty good gains and = had some=20 rather minute losses.  =

 The=20 other day I opened my E-mailbox and I began my daily routine of deleting = the=20 junk-mail and that is when I came across this interesting email that = told me=20 about a boy who had made 71,000 in just over 2 moths by doing this very = same=20 thing it also said that said I could make good money just by emailing = people on=20 my spare time and I thought to myself “this is too good to be = true” and as I=20 read on I became increasingly convinced by the letter and Decided what = could it=20 hurt.

    Now this is = completely and=20 100% legal according to the according to US Postal and Lottery Laws, = Title 18,=20 Section 1302 and 1341, or Title 18, Section 3005 in the US code, also in = the=20 code of federal regulations, Volume 16, Sections 255 and 436, which = state a=20 product or service must be exchanged for money received.   The instructions as they were = given to me=20 stated that when you received the email send the person at the top of = the list a=20 5-dollar bill and a note that says; "Please, add me to you mailing=20 list"

 Along with your email address then delete the person at = the top of=20 the list and add you’re to the bottom. =20 If you delete the persons name at the top and put you name at the = top to=20 start with the email will not get distributed as widely and you will not = get as=20 big of a return or as much cash.  = I’m not saying that this is a sure fire way to make some = big money and=20 I’m not saying quit your job and do this full-time but I already = mailed out my 5=20 dollars and now I’m sending this message to as many people as I = can with hope of=20 a cash return but If it doesn’t work there is no harm done because = there is no=20 money invested and no actual risk.

 Well here are the names = – mail you 5=20 dollars with a message to add you to your mailing list and begin sending = out=20 this message:

 1.Corey John
   = P.O. Box=20 26001
   Fredericton, N.B.
   E3A=20 5V8
 
2.Cheri Lynn
   403 N. Montgomery St.=20
   Ojai, CA 93023

3.Jake = Courrier 
   59454=20 80th St. 
   Walters, MN 56097

Here is a little insight on how much = money you=20 could possibly make. Then, those 400 people will move your name up to = the top=20 and they will each send out 20 E-mails.  That totals 8,000 people = that will=20 receive this E-mail with your name at the top and they will each send = you a $5=20 bill. 8,000 people each sending you a $5 bill =3D $40,000 cash.  = That's if=20 everyone responds to this E-mail, but not everyone will, so you can = expect more=20 realistically to receive about $10,000 cash $5 bills in your mailbox. = This will=20 work for anyone, anywhere in the world in any country, but send only a = US CASH=20 $5 bill. The more E-mails you send out, the more cash you will = receive.  If=20 each person sends out 100 E-mails, there will be 1,000,000 people that = receive=20 this letter when your name reaches the top. If only 1% of those people = respond,=20 you will still get $50,000 cash.

 

Remember to follow the steps exactly = and=20 remember; HAVE FUN

 

 

 

<= /HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFD194.A29FA640-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 19:54:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03130; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:54:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:54:13 -0700 Message-ID: <39405C34.F2E66237@csrlink.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:53:41 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uE2Ye.0.lm.Ln5Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Faraday's Lost Letters Hi All, As Didi has informed you, I am in possession of a seemingly rather rare book. It was printed in 1952 and has no isbn number or library of congress catalog number. It was compiled by the faculty of the University of Chicago. It is a collection of letters which Michael Faraday wrote to the Royal Society circa 1834. It is 500 pages long. In it he details (very minutely) his extensive experiments with electricity. There are many pages of electrolysis how-to's. Most of which verify, expand upon, or more clearly explain the ideas that I have been posting to date. I am somewhat humbled by this. My ideas parallel his. With a little more experimentation on my part I might have surpassed it. Now I have the book though and so I can't claim quite as much originality in some respects anymore. My hydrogen boiler and catalysis over unity designs are solely mine though. Quite honestly the knowledge to successfully utilize H2 from water as a fuel has existed for many years. Did you know that by adding nitric acid to sulfuric acid in an electrolysis cell you can significantly increase it's output over sulfuric acid alone without using more current, or a catalyst? He did. Did you know that you can produce a current by passing water or steam through a copper pipe and having one electrical contact touching the pipe and the other touching the water/steam? He did. Did you know that you could generate power from the magnetic N/S and ELECTRICAL W/E fields of the earth in several different ways? Earth's electrical field isn't even illustrated or taught about now, but it makes perfect sense once you think about it. Think in terms of Longitude lines AND Latitude lines representing each of these fields. He did it. If you are all interested I will do my best to describe as much of what is in here as seems useful to you. I plan to divide my posts up between Hydrogen production and earth power, etc... I can't copy directly too much without violating copyright laws but can write what he is saying in my own interpretation and copy his illustrations manually without doing anything wrong so that is what I will do. Thanks all, it's been a lot of fun so far. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 20:00:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA06637; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:59:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:59:54 -0700 Message-ID: <39405E58.2BD2C325@csrlink.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 23:02:48 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aWYMR2.0.Od1.es5Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The End of Days.....Read on Hi All, The following story is a sobering one. It means the end of an era. It should be viewed by persons with an active interest in free and alternative energy as a call to action. Your time has come. It is the end of days. (was that too melodramatic?) oh well, I guess I'm a showman at heart . MJ Rising Temps Forecast Changes By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - Alpine meadows will disappear, along with many coastal wetlands and barrier islands. Cities will be hotter and more humid. Ski runs will be scarcer, the demand for air conditioners will increase, and scientists will have to combat a likely resurgence in insect-borne diseases such as malaria. This is the weather forecast for the late 21st century, when average U.S. temperatures will have risen by 5 degrees to 10 degrees. Assailed by some critics as too pessimistic and little more than guess work, that assessment is of a country coping with global warming. Four years in the making, the report reflects the most ambitious attempt to gauge the impact of climate change on America. A dozen government agencies and hundreds of scientists, in and out of government, worked on ``Climate Change in America.'' It will be released next week and later presented to Congress, which asked for the assessment a decade ago. The Associated Press obtained a late draft of the report's overview summary. ``Based on the best available information, most Americans will experience significant impacts'' from Earth's warming, the report concludes. Among the findings: -Entire ecosystems may shift northward as temperatures increase. -The Alpine meadows of the Rocky Mountains likely will disappear. -Forests in the Southeast may break into ``a mosaic of forests, savannas and grasslands'' and sugar maples could disappear from Northeastern forests. -Ocean levels will rise, causing wetlands, marshes and barrier islands to disappear or - when the geography allows - be force inland. -The Great Lakes are predicted to decline because of increased evaporation causing yet different problems. -Some coastal cities, faced with sea level rise and more frequent storm surges, may have to redesign and adapt water, sewer and transportation systems. The study does not attempt to put a cost to such improvements. Some critics have charged it paints too dismal a picture and plays down potential benefits of warming - increased crop yields and warmer winters that may make life more pleasant in some areas, for example. The document acknowledges ``a complex mix of positive and negative impacts'' if, as most climate scientists predict, pollution in the atmosphere raises temperatures worldwide by an average of 4 degrees to 9 degrees over the next 100 years. An early draft of the overview summary was attacked in December as having ``an extreme, alarmist tone'' on predicting impact on human health. The summary has been revised with more emphasis on the uncertainties of predicting health impacts. Nevertheless, the study says higher temperatures and increased rainfall likely will exacerbate air pollution, saddle large cities with more frequent and severe heat waves, and lead to the spread of waterborne or insect-carrying diseases including malaria in the Southeast. But society can lessen these threats and the ``future vulnerability of the U.S. population to the heath impacts of climate change depends on our capacity to adapt,'' according to the late draft. In much of America, winter may disappear, limiting outdoor activities such as skiing. Warmer weather will reduce the mountain snowpack, curtailing the summer runoff that feeds irrigation across much of the West and complicating water management. But more rain is predicted for the arid Southwest. That could bring new vegetation - and more flash floods - to desert lands. Tree, fish and animal species will migrate northward everywhere. In the Pacific Northwest, the salmon may shift north to Alaska, replaced by warmer water species. In Alaska the rising temperature is expected to cause further thawing of permafrost, damaging roads and buildings. But warming also bring positive results, the study says. Trees will grow faster and the amount of timber in America's forests - especially hardwoods - will increase steadily through the century. Farmers will be able to grow more crops, although both in agriculture and forestry, there could be increased threats from pests and fire From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 20:02:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07605; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:02:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:02:12 -0700 Message-ID: <39405EF5.90B88594@csrlink.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 23:05:26 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <001101bfd1cf$4ff2a240$0200a8c0@twistedfella> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XE-G61.0.bs1.qu5Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE: This is BULLSHIT:Re: [FG]: Here Try This READ IT CAREFULLY (IT's Legal) BULLSHIT > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hello Every One Out There, > > Have you ever gotten one of those emails that tell you that you could > make a fortune If you invest in a certain company or mutual fund or if > you put you money in a ROTH IRA.Don’t get me wrong I have made many > investments in recent months and I have made some pretty good gains > and had some rather minute losses. > > The other day I opened my E-mailbox and I began my daily routine of > deleting the junk-mail and that is when I came across this interesting > email that told me about a boy who had made 71,000 in just over 2 > moths by doing this very same thing it also said that said I could > make good money just by emailing people on my spare time and I thought > to myself “this is too good to be true” and as I read on I became > increasingly convinced by the letter and Decided what could it hurt. > > Now this is completely and 100% legal according to the according > to US Postal and Lottery Laws, Title 18, Section 1302 and 1341, or > Title 18, Section 3005 in the US code, also in the code of federal > regulations, Volume 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state a product or > service must be exchanged for money received. The instructions as they > were given to me stated that when you received the email send the > person at the top of the list a 5-dollar bill and a note that says; > "Please, add me to you mailing list" > > Along with your email address then delete the person at the top of > the list and add you’re to the bottom.If you delete the persons name > at the top and put you name at the top to start with the email will > not get distributed as widely and you will not get as big of a return > or as much cash.I’m not saying that this is a sure fire way to make > some big money and I’m not saying quit your job and do this full-time > but I already mailed out my 5 dollars and now I’m sending this message > to as many people as I can with hope of a cash return but If it > doesn’t work there is no harm done because there is no money invested > and no actual risk. > > Well here are the names – mail you 5 dollars with a message to add > you to your mailing list and begin sending out this message: > > 1.Corey John > P.O. Box 26001 > Fredericton, N.B. > E3A 5V8 > > 2.Cheri Lynn > 403 N. Montgomery St. > Ojai, CA 93023 > > 3.Jake Courrier > 59454 80th St. > Walters, MN 56097 > > Here is a little insight on how much money you could possibly make. > Then, those 400 people will move your name up to the top and they will > each send out 20 E-mails. That totals 8,000 people that will receive > this E-mail with your name at the top and they will each send you a $5 > bill. 8,000 people each sending you a $5 bill = $40,000 cash. That's > if everyone responds to this E-mail, but not everyone will, so you can > expect more realistically to receive about $10,000 cash $5 bills in > your mailbox. This will work for anyone, anywhere in the world in any > country, but send only a US CASH $5 bill. The more E-mails you send > out, the more cash you will receive. If each person sends out 100 > E-mails, there will be 1,000,000 people that receive this letter when > your name reaches the top. If only 1% of those people respond, you > will still get $50,000 cash. > > "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> > > Remember to follow the steps exactly and remember; HAVE FUN > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 8 23:49:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12763; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 23:48:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 23:48:55 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday's Lost Letters Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 06:49:37 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <3943930d.215135698@mail.midiowa.net> References: <39405C34.F2E66237@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <39405C34.F2E66237@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA12732 Resent-Message-ID: <"_9xLF1.0.F73.MD9Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Mike, On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:53:41 -0400, Mike Johnston wrote: >Did you know that you could generate power from the magnetic N/S and >ELECTRICAL W/E fields of the earth in several different ways? Earth's >electrical field isn't even illustrated or taught about now, but it >makes perfect sense once you think about it. Think in terms of Longitude >lines AND Latitude lines representing each of these fields. He did it. I'd be interested in something like that. I know how to get a little power from the natural static buildup on insulated metal structures from air movement. I'd like to know what Faraday figured out. I'd also like to know the name, editors and publisher of that book. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 01:34:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA04745; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:33:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:33:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:33:48 -0400 Message-Id: <200006090833.EAA14901@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday's Lost Letters Resent-Message-ID: <"z-La23.0.2A1.slAGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael writes: >Hi All, > As Didi has informed you, I am in possession of a seemingly rather >rare book. It was printed in 1952 and has no isbn number or library of >congress catalog number. It was compiled by the faculty of the >University of Chicago. It is a collection of letters which Michael >Faraday wrote to the Royal Society circa 1834. It is 500 pages long. In >it he details (very minutely) his extensive experiments with >electricity. snip > I can't copy directly too much without violating copyright laws but >can write what he is saying in my own interpretation and copy his >illustrations manually without doing anything wrong so that is what I >will do. > Thanks all, it's been a lot of fun so far. >MJ You should check with a copyright attorney about the copyright laws regarding this collection of letters. If it was printed in 1952, and the copyrights were not kept up, then there is a good chance that the work is now in the public domain. If it is, you should scan it, OCR it, and make it available on a website in it's entirety before it gets lost. You didn't mention the name of the book, BTW. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 01:40:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA06565; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:40:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:40:43 -0700 Message-ID: <20000609084012.22504.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.93] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 01:40:12 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"SCyDW3.0.Qc1.BsAGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well, I don't post much here anymore, but this was such an intriquing subject that I had to... First, I'm not quite sure that I know what you mean by "the speed at which something travels forward through time". Speed, as we all know, means a relationship between distance and time. Therefore, if we define C as the speed at which something travels trough time, then we are saying that C is (the limit of?) how much time it takes to traverse a certain amount of time. So what you are saying is that time should be equated to distance, and there is "some other" mysterious "time" besides the time we know. What I have a problem with here is the terminology you have chosen and not (neccesarily) the theory itself. I mean, I think I see what you are getting at, because if we look at the twins paradox (one on earth, one in a spaceship traveling close to C) we see that both travel the same "distance" through time, but it takes one of them less "time" in which to do it from a relative (!) position. I think your theory might be better stated as C is the limit of difference between objective time and subjective time. Does that make any sense? I'm not sure that it does. I mean, what is "objective" time? There really is no such thing I suppose. However, there is no denying that both twins had a starting and ending point that was the same (temporally) for each, the only difference being the amount of "subjective" time each experienced from start to finish, and the only factor to account for the difference was the speed (distance x time). And yet, speed is totally relative!!!!!!!!! For instance, if you can imagine a universe with only one object in it, it would be completely "timeless". There would be nothing for it to be relative "to", and therefore (wow this makes my brain hurt!) would not pass through time. OK, at this point I have totally lost myself, so, until next time... (pun intended) : ) Tim Richardson >On Wed, 07 Jun 2000, Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > > His theory was that the "speed of light" was actually the speed at which > > something travels forward through time. Actually, that's MY take on his > > theory, his original theory wasn't so clean and outlined, it WAS > > actually quite foolish in my opinion. Anyway, that would explain this > > phenomenon, maybe. I personally don't believe this because, well, I > > never really thought about that...anyone have a good refutation to back > > me up? > >My take is that the 'the speed of light' is the fastest an object can >travel while still reamining in our particular 3D space. Travelling >faster than c would cause an object to 'skip' points (or nodes as it >may be), essentially exisiting in multiple 3D planes at once. > >Charlie > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 02:03:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA12836; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 02:03:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 02:03:17 -0700 Message-ID: <20000609090245.63641.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.93] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 02:02:44 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"w6cYN3.0.T83.KBBGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Just had another thought - everyone has it wrong, time travel is perfectly possible, but its backwards from what everyone thinks. To move backward in time (forward is easy, just travel close to the speed of light, and you will be in the far future as your "now" self) all you need to do is build a computer that can calculate all the varibles needed to completely stop your momentum/speed/whatever you want to call it - relative to the rest of the universe (since galaxies move at what? 60 or 70% of C relative to each other? Go read up on the current astrophysics) and maybe even generate "negative" momentum, if there is such a thing. Of course you will also need a space ship capable of doing this, some really really accurate star maps (to find your way back to the Earth), and balls of solid titanium to get the nerve to try it. And no, there is no paradox, because everything that has already happened, already happened. You would simply be rewriting a new version of what already happened, which would be happening after what already happened, happened. Follow? If you think about it from the "objective", "subjective" time thing, it really kind of makes sense. Tim Richardson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 05:13:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA24051; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:12:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:12:29 -0700 Message-ID: <20000609121156.22322.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.171] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:11:56 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"oDv0s2.0.it5.jyDGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oooooooooooh! My head is spinning, lol. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 06:43:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA21392; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:42:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:42:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002401bfd218$6dea8f80$40d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:41:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qE8NI2.0.9E5.CHFGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: timothy richardson To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel >Well, I don't post much here anymore, but this was such an intriquing >subject that I had to... > >First, I'm not quite sure that I know what you mean by "the speed at which >something travels forward through time". Speed, as we all know, means a >relationship between distance and time. Therefore, if we define C as the >speed at which something travels trough time, then we are saying that C is >(the limit of?) how much time it takes to traverse a certain amount of time. > So what you are saying is that time should be equated to distance, and >there is "some other" mysterious "time" besides the time we know. What I >have a problem with here is the terminology you have chosen and not >(neccesarily) the theory itself. I mean, I think I see what you are getting >at, because if we look at the twins paradox (one on earth, one in a >spaceship traveling close to C) we see that both travel the same "distance" >through time, but it takes one of them less "time" in which to do it from a >relative (!) position. I think your theory might be better stated as C is >the limit of difference between objective time and subjective time. Does >that make any sense? I'm not sure that it does. I mean, what is >"objective" time? There really is no such thing I suppose. However, there >is no denying that both twins had a starting and ending point that was the >same (temporally) for each, the only difference being the amount of >"subjective" time each experienced from start to finish, and the only factor >to account for the difference was the speed (distance x time). And yet, >speed is totally relative!!!!!!!!! For instance, if you can imagine a >universe with only one object in it, it would be completely "timeless". >There would be nothing for it to be relative "to", and therefore (wow this >makes my brain hurt!) would not pass through time. OK, at this point I have >totally lost myself, so, until next time... (pun intended) : ) Thank you for your...insite? ;) Anyway, I believe you got the jist of it. "Understanding" the concept is really what matters. > >Tim Richardson > > > > > >>On Wed, 07 Jun 2000, Chris O'Barr wrote: >> > >> > His theory was that the "speed of light" was actually the speed at which >> > something travels forward through time. Actually, that's MY take on his >> > theory, his original theory wasn't so clean and outlined, it WAS >> > actually quite foolish in my opinion. Anyway, that would explain this >> > phenomenon, maybe. I personally don't believe this because, well, I >> > never really thought about that...anyone have a good refutation to back >> > me up? >> >>My take is that the 'the speed of light' is the fastest an object can >>travel while still reamining in our particular 3D space. Travelling >>faster than c would cause an object to 'skip' points (or nodes as it >>may be), essentially exisiting in multiple 3D planes at once. >> >>Charlie >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 06:54:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02238; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002901bfd218$c5a77f80$40d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:44:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"dTQKb1.0.pY.0KFGv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: timothy richardson To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 5:04 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel >Just had another thought - everyone has it wrong, time travel is perfectly >possible, but its backwards from what everyone thinks. To move backward in >time (forward is easy, just travel close to the speed of light, and you will >be in the far future as your "now" self) all you need to do is build a >computer that can calculate all the varibles needed to completely stop your >momentum/speed/whatever you want to call it - relative to the rest of the >universe (since galaxies move at what? 60 or 70% of C relative to each >other? Go read up on the current astrophysics) and maybe even generate >"negative" momentum, if there is such a thing. Of course you will also need >a space ship capable of doing this, some really really accurate star maps >(to find your way back to the Earth), and balls of solid titanium to get the >nerve to try it. I don't believe this would work...unless I don't undersatnd your idea. Negative momentum? > >And no, there is no paradox, because everything that has already happened, >already happened. You would simply be rewriting a new version of what >already happened, which would be happening after what already happened, >happened. Follow? If you think about it from the "objective", "subjective" >time thing, it really kind of makes sense. > >Tim Richardson >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 08:10:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA24554; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:09:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:09:42 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:09:02 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:48:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: [FG]: Faraday's Lost Letters In-reply-to: <39405C34.F2E66237@csrlink.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2748ZYMRFY4LV X400-MTS-identifier: [;20901190600002/4797963@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"K-RiA2.0.O_5.eYGGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15599 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mike, >It was printed in 1952 But more importantly: >It is a collection of letters which Michael Faraday wrote to >the Royal Society circa 1834. I don't know that "letters" can be copyrighted, especially not by someone else. Something written in 1834 should be in the public domain by now. Just because someone prints something done by someone else doesn't give them a copyright. I couldn't reprint the KJ Bible and claim a copyright on it. You could post the individual letters that are most interesting. Your "collection" would be different then that done by The University of Chicago. Bill (Armchair Lawyer, no footstool, no no, toadstool lawyer.) webriggs@concentric.net Briggs@XLNsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 08:21:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA28280; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:21:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:21:20 -0700 Message-ID: <20000609152044.81227.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.53] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: Faraday's Lost Letters Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:20:44 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"BSBqA1.0.nv6.kjGGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Faraday was aware of the connection between Gravity and Electricity, although how much he knew I can't say. He is quoted: "capacitance is to gravity as inductance is to magnetism" I'm sure I and any of the other Grav-Cap guys would be interested in knowing his thoughts. What a find! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 10:43:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05764; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20000609173446.35526.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.9] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:34:46 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"wfCEi3.0.tP1.pnIGv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel > I don't believe this would work...unless I don't undersatnd your idea. >Negative momentum? Chris, Of course, really I have no idea if it would work or not but think about it like this: Look at the twins paradox again. When something travels close to C, its "time" slows down relative to everything else. As it increases in speed (distance x time) the rate decreases proportionatly. I believe that if it were to exceed C, it would begin to travel backwards through "time", but it would be its own subjective time it was traveling backwards through. After all, its its own subjective time thats slowing down, therefore this is the logical conclusion. So if one twin were to exceed C, when they returned, they would be YOUNGER than when they started, from the other twins perspective. So from the other twins perspective, he is relating to a "past" version of his sibling. Now, just do the same thing with the entire universe. If the entire universe is traveling faster than the speed of light relative to you, it would be traveling backwards in its own "subjective" time, and when the frames of reference are rejoined, it would be the "past" version of the universe that you would be relating to. Since we cannot accelerate the entire universe past C, we must unaccelerate ourselves relative to the rest of the universe, to have the relative speed difference. So you would have to travel faster (slower?) than negative C, and boom, negative momentum? I don't really know how else to verbalize the concept I am envisioning. Tim Richardson > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 11:25:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23953; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:25:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:25:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:24:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200006091824.OAA26468@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: water engine thingy... Resent-Message-ID: <"9i_Ti.0.As5.yPJGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tim writes: >I agree Mike, >Modern power plants use sea water all the time! Only about 3% of the water >they pump is really used... The rest is just for cooling and flushing... But >I have yet to hear of a single one that produces drinking water!!! People >just can"t except it... Call it "politicly incorrect"??? They could, they >just don't... > >Timothy... That is just not true Tim. There are numerous desalinization plants that produce drinking water from sea water. Every large boat has one for example, and there are many land plants that make drinking water this way. There could be more with better efficiencies, but it is still a bit expensive to do. I mentioned the clathrate plant in Hawaii the other day. It was a prototype plant that was suppose to be a more efficient means of desalinating water. I'm not exactly sure how it costed out since I haven't followed up on it, and it really is a complicated subject. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 11:25:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23934; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:24:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:24:56 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:24:40 -0400 Message-Id: <200006091824.OAA26479@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: RE: [FG]: Faraday's Lost Letters Resent-Message-ID: <"NLd2m1.0.nr5.qPJGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill writes: >I don't know that "letters" can be copyrighted, especially not by someone else. > >Something written in 1834 should be in the public domain by now. > >Just because someone prints something done by someone else doesn't give them a >copyright. I couldn't reprint the KJ Bible and claim a copyright on it. > >You could post the individual letters that are most interesting. Your >"collection" would be different then that done by The University of Chicago. Yeah, that is possible. After the Bruce Perrault collection copyright fiasco, I wasn't sure about the legalities, which is why I suggested consulting an authority to see if the copyrights were still in effect, and how much could be reproduced under the fair use doctrine. >Bill (Armchair Lawyer, no footstool, no no, toadstool lawyer.) I love it! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 11:44:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15708; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:42:57 -0700 (PDT) From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday's Lost Letters Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 18:42:57 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39413869.36658762@mail.midiowa.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id LAA15650 Resent-Message-ID: <"j3DsY.0.Gr3.ggJGv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill, On Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:48:05 -0400 (EDT), Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: >>It is a collection of letters which Michael Faraday wrote to >>the Royal Society circa 1834. > >I don't know that "letters" can be copyrighted, especially not by someone else. > >Something written in 1834 should be in the public domain by now. Nope. Each individual letter can't be copyrighted, but the collection of letter can be. There are two major types of copyright -- original author and collection. For example, the individual messages on CompuServe are automatically owned (copyright) by the writer of the message -- BUT, the group of messages in each forum is copyrighted by CompuServe as a collection (and they enforce it!). The same is true of messages on any WWW message server. If Bill Beaty wanted to copyright the collection of messages on the freenrg-l (or any of his other email lists), he could. All it takes is a copyright statement when you join the list (or when they're presented on a web site). >Just because someone prints something done by someone else doesn't give them a >copyright. I couldn't reprint the KJ Bible and claim a copyright on it. They can copyright the presentation of the Bible. That is, the effort they went through to produce the image you see on the page (character fonts, special graphics, pictures, drawings, concordances, etc.). >You could post the individual letters that are most interesting. Your >"collection" would be different then that done by The University of Chicago. Yup -- unless the letters have been modified in some way so the source could be traced. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 12:00:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09069; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:59:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:59:42 -0700 Message-ID: <007601bfd237$9ddffe40$c02f9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: "freenrg L" References: <20000609084012.22504.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:23:49 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"2VOjx1.0.MD2.UwJGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... | to account for the difference was the speed (distance x time). And yet, | speed is totally relative!!!!!!!!! For instance, if you can imagine a | universe with only one object in it, it would be completely "timeless". | There would be nothing for it to be relative "to", and therefore (wow this | makes my brain hurt!) would not pass through time. OK, at this point I have A single object ? Any object you can point at seems to be a composite of multiple particles. Consider the scenario of a single particle, the smallest and most basic component of matter, whatever it may be, alone in the universe: The universe could only be described relative to the particle. Time and distance would be relative to the particle alone, for without reference to the particle, you cannot describe the boundaries and limits of the universe. Perhaps C arises as the result of the interaction of various influences from the sea of particles in our universe ( just an iconoclastic thought...) | > > | > > His theory was that the "speed of light" was actually the speed at which | > > something travels forward through time. Actually, that's MY take on his | > > theory, his original theory wasn't so clean and outlined, it WAS The permittivity of the collection, perhaps ? | >My take is that the 'the speed of light' is the fastest an object can | >travel while still reamining in our particular 3D space. Travelling | >faster than c would cause an object to 'skip' points (or nodes as it | >may be), essentially exisiting in multiple 3D planes at once. | > | >Charlie Objects approaching us at greater than C exist as a plurality ? Objects leaving us at greater than C don't exist at all in our reference frame ? curious thoughts, all cheers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 12:47:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA32560; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:47:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:47:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bfd24b$627e7ca0$4ed666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:46:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6AYTn2.0.Qy7.CdKGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com All this stuff about time and light speed just makes you want to lean back and say OOOOOOOH... :) -----Original Message----- From: xplorer To: freenrg L Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 3:00 PM Subject: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... > >| to account for the difference was the speed (distance x time). And yet, >| speed is totally relative!!!!!!!!! For instance, if you can imagine a >| universe with only one object in it, it would be completely "timeless". >| There would be nothing for it to be relative "to", and therefore (wow this >| makes my brain hurt!) would not pass through time. OK, at this point I >have > >A single object ? Any object you can point at seems to be a composite > of multiple particles. >Consider the scenario of a single particle, the smallest and most basic > component of matter, whatever it may be, alone in the universe: >The universe could only be described relative to the particle. >Time and distance would be relative to the particle alone, for without > reference to the particle, you cannot describe the boundaries > and limits of the universe. >Perhaps C arises as the result of the interaction of various > influences from the sea of particles in our universe >( just an iconoclastic thought...) > >| > > >| > > His theory was that the "speed of light" was actually the speed at >which >| > > something travels forward through time. Actually, that's MY take on >his >| > > theory, his original theory wasn't so clean and outlined, it WAS > >The permittivity of the collection, perhaps ? > >| >My take is that the 'the speed of light' is the fastest an object can >| >travel while still reamining in our particular 3D space. Travelling >| >faster than c would cause an object to 'skip' points (or nodes as it >| >may be), essentially exisiting in multiple 3D planes at once. >| > >| >Charlie > >Objects approaching us at greater than C exist as a plurality ? >Objects leaving us at greater than C don't exist at all in our > reference frame ? > >curious thoughts, all > >cheers > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 12:51:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02809; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:50:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:50:26 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:49:58 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:43:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 In-reply-to: To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2739ZYMRMN6LJ X400-MTS-identifier: [;85945190600002/4799111@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"xSfRm.0.bh.2gKGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Hey Bill, pyramid scam SPAM Hey Bill, If you haven't already, bounce this guy, he's using the list for a chain letter pyramid scam SPAM letter. Check out my reply. Under the subject: [FG]: Here Try This READ IT CAREFULLY (IT's Legal) Jake Courrier - jakec@smig.net Bill webriggs@concentric.net Briggs@XLNsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 13:00:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06156; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:00:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:00:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bfd24a$e0eb67c0$4ed666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:42:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Px1CY2.0.0W1.BpKGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Are you saying that there is negative speed? -----Original Message----- From: timothy richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel > >>Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel > >> I don't believe this would work...unless I don't undersatnd your idea. >>Negative momentum? > > >Chris, > >Of course, really I have no idea if it would work or not but think about it >like this: > >Look at the twins paradox again. When something travels close to C, its >"time" slows down relative to everything else. As it increases in speed >(distance x time) the rate decreases proportionatly. I believe that if it >were to exceed C, it would begin to travel backwards through "time", but it >would be its own subjective time it was traveling backwards through. After >all, its its own subjective time thats slowing down, therefore this is the >logical conclusion. So if one twin were to exceed C, when they returned, >they would be YOUNGER than when they started, from the other twins >perspective. So from the other twins perspective, he is relating to a >"past" version of his sibling. Now, just do the same thing with the entire >universe. If the entire universe is traveling faster than the speed of light >relative to you, it would be traveling backwards in its own "subjective" >time, and when the frames of reference are rejoined, it would be the "past" >version of the universe that you would be relating to. Since we cannot >accelerate the entire universe past C, we must unaccelerate ourselves >relative to the rest of the universe, to have the relative speed difference. > So you would have to travel faster (slower?) than negative C, and boom, >negative momentum? I don't really know how else to verbalize the concept I >am envisioning. > > >Tim Richardson > > > > >> >________________________________________________________________________ >> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com >> > >> > >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 14:24:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA00851; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:24:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:24:13 -0700 Message-ID: <20000609211641.18933.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.83] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 14:16:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"7wBHN2.0.BD.y1MGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Are you saying that there is negative speed? No, not really. I am not making any claims as to what is really the case with reality. I am simply saying that if you follow it out to its logical conclusion, it appears that that is the case. Modern physics says (at least from my understanding) that all the equations relating to speed, vectors and so forth, should, at least theoretically, work both ways. I have absolutly no idea how you would go about DOING it, but I believe it may be possible. This is a totally new idea to me, and in fact, it only occured to me because of the train of thought started by your post about C = the speed of something through time. Of course, I am taking all this with a few thousand grams of sodiom chloride, and you should, too. Because it also occured to me that lauguage begins to break down here. (see archives with my post about this problem) You see, if we say that c is the limit of difference between "subjective" time, and "objective" time, and we know that speed = distance x time, we must have really good definitions of distance, time, and so forth. Try to define distance and time without refering to each other and see what I mean. Unfortunatly, they seem to be interrelated in ways that are difficult to understand. Speed influences distance (objects distort, both mass and LENGTH, which is distance, from an outside observers perspective when traveling close to c) but c is how much distance per time. So... if distance x time influences distance, you are confronted with a paradox. I am planning to review my Einstein, and others, soon, because ever since I read your first post, it is really bugging the living @*&^$# out of me. I hope to be able resolve this at least to my own satisfaction. I will keep you posted on any other meandering, wild theories I happen to come up with. Tim Richardson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 14:39:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04563; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:38:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:38:05 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6f.6164b91.2672baab@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:24:59 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"_IQ6j1.0.e61.yEMGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Option 2 on web page, o/u device LaFonte Research Site 1 http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 16:30:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02802; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:30:02 -0700 (PDT) MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 19:29:30 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 19:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 17:05:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 In-reply-to: To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 19:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2747ZYMRRUZA6 X400-MTS-identifier: [;03929190600002/4799493@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZTamG1.0.Zh.vtNGv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Plasma Stabilization All, Hey take a look at this: A. B. Hassam - Velocity shear stabilization of interchange modes in elongated plasma configurations. http://www.ipr.umd.edu/Theory/Publications/pub99-7.pdf Perhaps some of the problems with replicating LENR in a plasma is that the geometry of the environment that the plasma is created in isn't conducive to stability, let alone initial creation. The article referenced above discusses encouraging the formation of and stabilizing plasmas. Which got me to thinking: 1) The shape of the plasma chamber may need to be tuned to the frequency that the plasma is operating at, i.e. a rectangular waveguide shape sized to match the quarter wavelength of the frequency of the plasma. Within this context the occasional successes of some of the cells may be because the random wandering of the pre-plasma reaction puts it into a position within the geometry of the cell that temporarily fits it's quarter wavelength requirements, or a near harmonic. Just as a singer wandering through a building will occasionally find a position that will feedback and strengthen their voice instead of distorting it. 2) Elongation of the plasma within the proper frequency related shape in a waveguide type channel may help. Perhaps the "velocity shearing" or moving within the proper geometry would be better than a random wandering between the anode cathode configuration. Back in my Air Farce days it seemed I was replacing short sections of waveguide damaged by arcing more than the longer sections. At the time I had thought that this was caused by inexact coupling of the sections. But that did not explain why the arcing was more likely to occur on the short side of the junction of two segments rather than the long piece. Yeh, I know radar going down a waveguide isn't a plasma, but some of their characteristics are common to both. Just another off the wall observation from the peanut gallery. Bill webriggs@concentric.net Briggs@XLNsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 16:32:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA03137; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:32:08 -0700 (PDT) From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: <9e.59470d0.2672d849@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:31:21 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday's Lost Letters To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"gLvKm2.0.tm.qvNGv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/8/00 7:54:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, enki@csrlink.net writes: << I can't copy directly too much without violating copyright laws but can write what he is saying in my own interpretation and copy his illustrations manually without doing anything wrong so that is what I will do. Thanks all, it's been a lot of fun so far. MJ >> Sounds great! I am looking forward to it ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 18:29:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10643; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:28:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:28:44 -0700 Message-ID: <394198ED.BE70FBA3@harti.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:25:01 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"47quI1.0.8c2.CdPGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New Methernitha Testatika movies online ! Hi All, I have uploaded 5 new movies of the Methernitha Testatika machines. They are again in ASF format in 320x240 resolution with 25 frames/sec. Please download them first before playback. (Click the right mouse button onto the link and then click "Save as" to your local harddisk) The movies are here: http://mars.spaceports.com/~over/movies/ You need the newer free Mediaplayer 6.4 to play them, which can be found here: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia If you have a slow PC, go to File/properties/MPEG-4-Decompressor and set the CPU quality to zero. This will speed up the MPEG-4 decoding. Also don´t alter Brightness or Contrast settings, nor alter Soundequalizer settings, if you have a slow PC. The Methernitha Testatika machines are still really genius and Methernitha still keeps its function secret. But I guess Graham Gundersom has found a basic principle how it could work. Read it here: http://www.egroups.com/message/jlnlabs/5453?&start=2060 Enjoy the movies and also have a look at Methernitha´s website for the spirit of the "Pfingsten"-holidays where the Holy Ghost came down ! http://www.methernitha.com -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 18:29:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10891; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:29:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:29:23 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:43:02 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 14:45:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: [FG]: Here Try This READ IT CAREFULLY (IT's Legal) In-reply-to: <001101bfd1cf$4ff2a240$0200a8c0@twistedfella> To: Jake Courrier , freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2744ZYMRMH6G0 X400-MTS-identifier: [;20345190600002/4799086@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"1h_OH3.0.wf2.ndPGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jake, Yes this is most definitely illegal, on two counts. Mail Fraud & SPAM This is a plain and simple chain letter pyramid scam. >Now this is completely and 100% legal according to the according to US >Postal and Lottery Laws, Title 18, Section 1302 and 1341, or Title 18, >Section 3005 in the US code, also in the code of federal regulations, >Volume 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state a product or service must be >exchanged for money received. The instructions as they were given to me >stated that when you received the email send the person at the top of the >list a 5-dollar bill and a note that says; "Please, add me to you mailing >list" Asking someone to place you on a list of gullible fools that can be taken advantage of, is NOT a service. >If it doesn't work there is no harm done because there is no money >invested and no actual risk. Your $15 dollars isn't "no money". It is also illegal because it is SPAM, an unsolicited mass e-mail. Illegal because you did not include the required by law "how to unsubscribe" message. You also joined this topical list under fraudulent conditions. You are not here to discuss science, but to commit fraud. You are also violating the rules of this topical list that you agreed to as a condition of joining this list, namely no soliciting. Now on the off chance you are just an innocent dupe, well formerly innocent, you are now guilty of a federal crime, here is how this scam works. Get between 3-10 addresses where you can receive mail. Make up some phony names to go with them. Put those names on a list. Make up some story about some poor slob who made a fortune doing this, preferably some poor crippled orphaned minority kid. Say it's legal, throw in some out of context legal sounding phrases. Make sure you ask for a return address, let them think this is a service to them. Send it out to as many people as you can. Pay some kid to collect your mail, while you watch him from across the street to see if the FBI arrests him. Then pocket the cash, deposit any checks into some bank accounts that you have created under those same false ID's, be sure to convert it to cash as soon as possible, you can pay that same kid, if he hasn't been arrested yet, to do it for you while you watch from across the street again. Then create a database of all your victims that fell for your scam and scr__ uh take advantage of them again six months from now with a different letter. There is even a black-market for this kind of list, you could pick up some extra money that way. My 2 cents worth. Hey BillB if your watching, as list manager, bounce this guy!!! Bill (the other BillB) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 22:12:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA03692; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:11:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:11:21 -0700 Message-ID: <005501bfd2a2$c8c2ae80$4c99b5d0@mm00> From: "J Tournier" To: References: <39413869.36658762@mail.midiowa.net> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:11:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZYmch3.0.Uv.vtSGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: REMOVE please remove me from the list. Thank you. Justin Tournier From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 22:24:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06878; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:24:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:24:17 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: New Methernitha Testatika movies online ! Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:24:33 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <3941d076.75583733@mail.midiowa.net> References: <394198ED.BE70FBA3@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <394198ED.BE70FBA3@harti.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA06837 Resent-Message-ID: <"20-n83.0.Nh1.14TGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan, On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:25:01 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >You need the newer free Mediaplayer 6.4 to play them, >which can be found here: > >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia I use Windows2000, which comes with Mediaplayer 6.4 -- and it says the formats of the files on your site are corrupted. (I'm downloading 7.0 beta right now to see if that makes a difference.) Any ideas about what I could do (assuming 7.0 doesn't work, either)? -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 22:31:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA09196; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:31:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:31:19 -0700 From: JYIELD@aol.com Message-ID: <99.5f4379c.26732c71@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:30:25 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 44 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cosa61.0.XF2.dATGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Removal I give up. Please take me off of this sometimes incoherent mailing. Thanks. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 9 22:43:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11458; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:43:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:43:25 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 23:42:37 -0600 From: "C. Green" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: cgren@mailcity.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: Removal X-Sender-Ip: 162.42.18.226 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z_ki_3.0.to2.yLTGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Whaddya say? Send FREE Greetings for Father's Day--or any day! Click here: http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/fathers_day.rdct From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 00:26:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27141; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:26:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: <20000610072615.56154.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.88] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:26:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"KLlOB2.0.-d6.RsUGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You wrote: >The universe could only be described relative to the particle. >Time and distance would be relative to the particle alone, for >without >reference to the particle, you cannot describe the >boundaries and limits >of the universe. My point here is that there would be NO time or distance in such a case. It is not simply that they would be relative to the particle alone, because time and distance are not in and of themselves relative to anything. They are rather words we use to describe the relationships between two or more things, events and so on. Those relationships can be relative, and so you can speak about the subjective "time" of an object or event being relative, but not the concept of time itself. The distance BETWEEN two objects can be relative, but to speak of a single object and distance is meaningless. That one little word says it all - between. If you have only one fundamental partical then the distance between it and...what? There is nothing else for the distance to be between it and, if you follow. If a monoparticulate universe (patent pending on THAT phrase, grin) existed, then the boundaries would be that of the particle, period, by definition. OK, here's another way to put it: if, for example, I ask you tell me how much time has passed between two events, it is impossible for you to do so without using a commonly recurring event of some kind as a unit of measure, whether it be the oscillation of a piece of quartz in an electrical field, the swinging of a pendulum, the rising and setting of the sun or the moon, the seasons, the stars, whatever. In our postulated monoparticulate universe (I love the sound of that) there are no events. Nothing happens. Dead. Cold. Frozen, but not IN time, because there is no time. Because time is the description of events, and it is nothing more. For some odd reason, people seem to want time to be this mysterious force or entity that drags all of creation along in its wake, rather than seeing that it is an intrinsic ASPECT of reality. Its like.............movement. Can you have movement without something that moves? Movement. Oh my God. Thats it. Time, matter, everything. The whole ball of wax. I just saw it for a moment. Movement. Everything is movement. Its beautiful. Try for a moment to see that everything - time, matter, thought, energy, EVERYTHING is this complex...dance. How can I say this? How can I convey it? Words are useless. Tim Richardson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 03:23:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA23680; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:23:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:23:07 -0700 Message-ID: <39421620.26932B3F@harti.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:19:12 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtmiller@midiowa.net, Free Energy Subject: Re: [FG]: New Methernitha Testatika movies online ! References: <394198ED.BE70FBA3@harti.com> <3941d076.75583733@mail.midiowa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9l0e33.0.vn5.ASXGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dean, I tested the movies and they are okay. Try to use Netvampire or GetRight to download them. Regards, Stefan. "Dean T. Miller" schrieb: > > Hi Stefan, > > On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:25:01 +0200, Stefan Hartmann > wrote: > > >You need the newer free Mediaplayer 6.4 to play them, > >which can be found here: > > > >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia > > I use Windows2000, which comes with Mediaplayer 6.4 -- and it says the > formats of the files on your site are corrupted. (I'm downloading 7.0 > beta right now to see if that makes a difference.) > > Any ideas about what I could do (assuming 7.0 doesn't work, either)? > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 07:28:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA23492; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:28:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:28:13 -0700 Message-ID: <20000610142736.7777.qmail@web5101.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:27:36 -0700 (PDT) From: lguliug glglfguy To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"rml5e3.0.vk5.z1bGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: AntiGRAVITY is here !! http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1999/may/d06-001.shtml The first atomic antigravitic device was constructed in 1999. My, that was a busy year! The device was simply a 10 centimeter wide ribbon of Bismuth half a kilometer long and an average of 3 microns thick. It was coiled around a hollow copper core with a similar, 25-micron thick dielectric ribbon coiled around the core and between each Bismuth layer. The free end of the bismuth ribbon was grounded. When a high-voltage charge was applied to the copper core, the device punched through the ceiling and roof of the lab at a speed that was later estimated to be around Mach 8. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 07:47:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30227; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:47:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:47:19 -0700 Message-ID: <037f01bfd2e9$cccf16c0$a029fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: References: <20000609211641.18933.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:20:22 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"WlADq3.0.8O7.tJbGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Why not? If there is an forward Time Arrow why not the Backward Time Arrow too? Perhaps what we really have here is the Time Boomerang. Anna . ----- Original Message ----- From: "timothy richardson" To: Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel > > Are you saying that there is negative speed? > > No, not really. I am not making any claims as to what is really the case > with reality. I am simply saying that if you follow it out to its logical > conclusion, it appears that that is the case. Modern physics says (at least > from my understanding) that all the equations relating to speed, vectors and > so forth, should, at least theoretically, work both ways. I have absolutly > no idea how you would go about DOING it, but I believe it may be possible. > This is a totally new idea to me, and in fact, it only occured to me because > of the train of thought started by your post about C = the speed of > something through time. Of course, I am taking all this with a few thousand > grams of sodiom chloride, and you should, too. Because it also occured to > me that lauguage begins to break down here. (see archives with my post > about this problem) You see, if we say that c is the limit of difference > between "subjective" time, and "objective" time, and we know that speed = > distance x time, we must have really good definitions of distance, time, and > so forth. Try to define distance and time without refering to each other > and see what I mean. Unfortunatly, they seem to be interrelated in ways > that are difficult to understand. Speed influences distance (objects > distort, both mass and LENGTH, which is distance, from an outside observers > perspective when traveling close to c) but c is how much distance per time. > So... if distance x time influences distance, you are confronted with a > paradox. I am planning to review my Einstein, and others, soon, because > ever since I read your first post, it is really bugging the living @*&^$# > out of me. I hope to be able resolve this at least to my own satisfaction. > I will keep you posted on any other meandering, wild theories I happen to > come up with. > > Tim Richardson > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 08:58:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15615; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:57:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:57:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3942659A.4090303@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:58:18 -0400 From: patrick tremblay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel References: <20000609211641.18933.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060009070403090007080306" Resent-Message-ID: <"aV3UW2.0.up3.qLcGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --------------060009070403090007080306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What would be interesting would be to build a time computer technology. Using ultra fast semiconductors sensors and the light speed acceleration barrier ( that is essentially made of successive layers of high and then low refraction ) we could perhaps build a time optocoupler in order to send photons back in time. with such a device we could make trillions at the stock market, predict weather accurately, avoid disasters and so on. How the light acceleration barrier is built. It is built with succesive layers of high and then low refraction) each layer is half of the light's wavelength. Such a barrier should dramatically slow and stop light, but some photons pass and they seem faster than light. But since they did not chronometer the photons from the exit of the barrier to the enter of the light sensor, I suggest that inside the barrier the photons are travelling backwards in time, extracting negative energy, ounce they exit the barrier they are at speed C, and if we add the time it takes to the photon exiting the barrier at speed C to reach the sensor to the time it went backwards in time when it was inside the barrier, it gives the illusion that it took light less time to hit the sensor. So logical conclusion light is going faster. But maybe not, make it is at C when it exits the barrier and maybe inside the barrier it travels backwards in time. So in order to make a sensor to send a signal backwards in time, I would suggest to build all the components very small, a semi-conductor laser with tuned frequency, and a semiconductor sensor with tuned frequency for the laser, and the multiple refraction barrier, all would be build inside a very small electronic chip component ( nano technologies will be needed ) The key would be to place the laser and the sensor as close to the barrier as possible in order to minimise the effects of normal forward time and to amplify the effect of negative time. For example, if the light inside the barrier goes back 1 nano second in the past, and when it exits the barrier it takes 3 nano seconds to reach the sensor, not to mention the sensors reaction time and the time it takes for the signal to reach the computer and being processed, well you will have the illusion that light took 2 nano seconds from emission to the sensor when in fact it went 1 nano second back in time inside the barrier. So minimising the distance between the barrier and the sensor is critical, also minimising the distance between the laser and the barrier is cricital too. But because of the reaction times of the sensor, i.e. the time it takes for the sensor to react to the light and send the digital response to the computer, all negative time is overwhelmed by forward time. So a very good system would have the laser, the sensor and the barrier all built in one nano component, and in order to extract sufficient negative time, we would need to have multiple feedbacks, that is light would need to be feed back and forth in the barrier so we would amplify the negative time effect. I will post the entire document on my web page soon for your reading enjoyement. But remember this is highly speculative. timothy richardson wrote: > > > Are you saying that there is negative speed? > > No, not really. I am not making any claims as to what is really the case > with reality. I am simply saying that if you follow it out to its logical > conclusion, it appears that that is the case. Modern physics says (at least > from my understanding) that all the equations relating to speed, vectors and > so forth, should, at least theoretically, work both ways. I have absolutly > no idea how you would go about DOING it, but I believe it may be possible. > This is a totally new idea to me, and in fact, it only occured to me because > of the train of thought started by your post about C = the speed of > something through time. Of course, I am taking all this with a few thousand > grams of sodiom chloride, and you should, too. Because it also occured to > me that lauguage begins to break down here. (see archives with my post > about this problem) You see, if we say that c is the limit of difference > between "subjective" time, and "objective" time, and we know that speed = > distance x time, we must have really good definitions of distance, time, and > so forth. Try to define distance and time without refering to each other > and see what I mean. Unfortunatly, they seem to be interrelated in ways > that are difficult to understand. Speed influences distance (objects > distort, both mass and LENGTH, which is distance, from an outside observers > perspective when traveling close to c) but c is how much distance per time. > So... if distance x time influences distance, you are confronted with a > paradox. I am planning to review my Einstein, and others, soon, because > ever since I read your first post, it is really bugging the living @*&^$# > out of me. I hope to be able resolve this at least to my own satisfaction. > I will keep you posted on any other meandering, wild theories I happen to > come up with. > > Tim Richardson > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > --------------060009070403090007080306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What would be interesting would be to build a time computer technology.

Using ultra fast semiconductors sensors and the light speed acceleration barrier ( that is essentially made of successive layers of high and then low refraction ) we could perhaps build a time optocoupler in order to send photons back in time.

with such a device we could make trillions at the stock market, predict weather accurately, avoid disasters and so on.

How the light acceleration barrier is built. It is built with succesive layers of high and then low refraction) each layer is half of the light's wavelength.

Such a barrier should dramatically slow and stop light, but some photons pass and they seem faster
than light.

But since they did not chronometer the photons from the exit of the barrier to the enter of the light sensor, I suggest that inside the barrier the photons are travelling backwards in time, extracting negative energy, ounce they exit the barrier they are at speed C, and if we add the time it takes to the photon exiting the barrier at speed C to reach the sensor to the time it went backwards in time when it was inside the barrier, it gives the illusion that it took light less time to hit the sensor. So
logical conclusion light is going faster.

But maybe not, make it is at C when it exits the barrier and maybe inside the barrier it travels backwards in time.

So in order to make a sensor to send a signal backwards in time, I would suggest to build all the components very small, a semi-conductor laser with tuned frequency, and a semiconductor sensor with tuned frequency for the laser, and the multiple refraction barrier, all would be build inside a very small electronic chip component ( nano technologies will be needed )

The key would be to place the laser and the sensor as close to the barrier as possible in order to minimise the effects of normal forward time and to amplify the effect of negative time.

For example, if the light inside the barrier goes back 1 nano second in the past, and when it exits the barrier it takes 3 nano seconds to reach the sensor, not to mention the sensors reaction time and the time it takes for the signal to reach the computer and being processed, well you will have the illusion that light took 2 nano seconds from emission to the sensor when in fact it went 1 nano second back in time inside the barrier. So minimising the distance between the barrier and the sensor is critical, also minimising the distance between the laser and the barrier is cricital too.

But because of the reaction times of the sensor, i.e. the time it takes for the sensor to react to the light and send the digital response to the computer, all negative time is overwhelmed by forward time.

So a very good system would have the laser, the sensor and the barrier all built in one nano component, and in order to extract sufficient negative time, we would need to have multiple feedbacks, that is light would need to be feed back and forth in the barrier so we would amplify the negative time effect.

I will post the entire document on my web page soon for your reading enjoyement. But remember this is highly speculative.



timothy richardson wrote:
>     Are you saying that there is negative speed?

No, not really.  I am not making any claims as to what is really the case 
with reality.  I am simply saying that if you follow it out to its logical 
conclusion, it appears that that is the case.  Modern physics says (at least 
from my understanding) that all the equations relating to speed, vectors and 
so forth, should, at least theoretically, work both ways.  I have absolutly 
no idea how you would go about DOING it, but I believe it may be possible.  
This is a totally new idea to me, and in fact, it only occured to me because 
of the train of thought started by your post about C = the speed of 
something through time.  Of course, I am taking all this with a few thousand 
grams of sodiom chloride, and you should, too.  Because it also occured to 
me that lauguage begins to break down here.  (see archives with my post 
about this problem)  You see, if we say that c is the limit of difference 
between "subjective" time, and "objective" time, and we know that speed = 
distance x time, we must have really good definitions of distance, time, and 
so forth.  Try to define distance and time without refering to each other 
and see what I mean.  Unfortunatly, they seem to be interrelated in ways 
that are difficult to understand.  Speed influences distance (objects 
distort, both mass and LENGTH, which is distance, from an outside observers 
perspective when traveling close to c) but c is how much distance per time.  
So... if distance x time influences distance, you are confronted with a 
paradox.  I am planning to review my Einstein, and others, soon, because 
ever since I read your first post, it is really bugging the living @*&^$# 
out of me.  I hope to be able resolve this at least to my own satisfaction.  
I will keep you posted on any other meandering, wild theories I happen to 
come up with.

Tim Richardson
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

--------------060009070403090007080306-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 10:30:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08448; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:30:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:30:08 -0700 Message-ID: <20000610172936.15399.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:29:36 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ywzrZ3.0.n32.WidGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: 666 file Third harmonics placed back to back in an unusual spatial speculation yeilds a consideration where both even and odd harmonics can combine in a ratio of 6. 6 has a very unusual connotation in magic square formation, where the solutions are not easily found. Some idle speculation for the list, however mathematics have the foundation for much reasoning. The same length of wire can be formed with the same spacing between winds and combine to deliver two different geometric solutions for the same inductance. This is distorted also by Medhurst considerations of H/D ratio. Southern Reconstruction efforts of interest.HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 11:39:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26687; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:39:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:39:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bfd30b$70490d80$63f14ed8@pavilion> From: "Joe May" To: References: <20000610172936.15399.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:41:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"4eHxP2.0.qW6.PjeGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: 666 file The Enterprise Mission, an excellent web site, http://www.enterprisemission.com/ Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey norris" To: Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 1:29 PM Subject: [FG]: 666 file > Third harmonics placed back to back in an unusual > spatial speculation yeilds a consideration where both > even and odd harmonics can combine in a ratio of 6. 6 > has a very unusual connotation in magic square > formation, where the solutions are not easily found. > Some idle speculation for the list, however > mathematics have the foundation for much reasoning. > The same length of wire can be formed with the same > spacing between winds and combine to deliver two > different geometric solutions for the same inductance. > This is distorted also by Medhurst considerations of > H/D ratio. Southern Reconstruction efforts of interest.HDN > > ===== > Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > http://photos.yahoo.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 12:17:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05411; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:16:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:16:36 -0700 Message-ID: <394294DA.7692EAFE@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:19:55 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B94865D843D109D644839CE8" Resent-Message-ID: <"9PNKw2.0.OK1.KGfGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Faraday Book This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B94865D843D109D644839CE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Ok, so everybody is interested in this book that I have. I'm sorry, I can't tell you where you could get a copy of it. I will gladly give you all of the information I have on the book and maybe that will help. I just stumbled across it in an old book store. Faraday's name caught my eye and I picked it up for .25 cents. Much of what is in here is probably available elsewhere but I have never really seen it. Most of it has to do with his experiments into electrolysis. Also he explores the nature of magnetism and electricity and their relationship to each other. He makes an attempt to explain gravity in this way. He explains the experiments that he uses to confirm his hypotheses in great detail. I find it quite fascinating. In one letter he coins the names "Cathode, Anode, Cation, Anion, Electrode" etc... It's like peering through a neat little window into the past. It is written in Faraday's own words, using language common to his time, so all the publisher did was copy his original letters word for word. I guess they couldn't really copyright that anyway, just their layout or whatever. There are 601 pages of his original works in here. I don't have a scanner so I can't get it out that way. For all I know some, or most of it, may already be well known to you guys. I haven't seen it before though. Especially his theories and experiments on power from the Earth's fields. Some are successful, some are not. He admits which ones don't work and which ones do. They would be easy for anyone else to copy (cheap too). I will copy the Table of Contents from Faraday's portion of the book and attach it to this message as an .rtf file (Rich Text Format). That way those without Windows .doc format ability should be able to read it. I'd use plain text but then it would lose it's formatting and it is taking me some time to copy this like it is in the book. That way you will know better what the book contains and perhaps be better able to know whether or not you have seen any of it before, or have any need of it's information. If it is indeed still interesting to you after you review said contents and it's distribution is worthwhile to you all, at that point I will try to find some way to copy the entire work and get it to those who want it (free). In the meantime I will work on manually copying some of the parts on Earth power and post that later. I don't have the time to do a whole lot though and don't really feel like turning into a Temple Scribe or anything, sitting here in the warm, Sumerian summer sunshine all day long with my stylus and wet tablet of clay in hand , but for as long as it holds my interest, I will do what I can. I will highlight in red the parts that I found most interesting. 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b2xhcml0eX0NClxwYXJccGFyZFxzbDI0MFxzbG11bHQxe1xmMCAxNC4gTWVkaWF9DQpccGFy XHBhcmRcc2wyNDBcc2xtdWx0MXtcZjAgMTUuIFRpbWV9DQpccGFyXHBhcmRcc2wyNDBcc2xt dWx0MXtcZjAgMTYuIEN1cnZlZCBsaW5lcyBvZiBtYWduZXRpYyBmb3JjZX0NClxwYXJccGFy ZFxzbDI0MFxzbG11bHQxe1xmMCAxNy4gUGxhY2VzIG9mIG5vIG1hZ25ldGljIGFjdGlvbn0N ClxwYXJccGFyZFxzbDI0MFxzbG11bHQxe1xmMCAxOC4gVGhlIG1vdmluZyBjb25kdWN0b3J9 DQpccGFyXHBhcmRcc2wyNDBcc2xtdWx0MQ0KXHBhclxwYXJkXHFjXHNsMjQwXHNsbXVsdDF7 XGYyXGIgTEVUVEVSU30NClxwYXJccGFyZFxxY1xzbDI0MFxzbG11bHQxDQpccGFyXHBhcmRc c2wyNDBcc2xtdWx0MXtcZjAgMS4gT24gc3RhdGljIGVsZWN0cmljYWwgaW5kdWN0aXZlIGFj dGlvbn0NClxwYXJccGFyZFxzbDI0MFxzbG11bHQxe1xmMCAyLiB9e1xjZjFcZjEgQSBzcGVj dWxhdGlvbiB0b3VjaGluZyBlbGVjdHJpYyBjb25kdWN0aW9uIGFuZCB0aGUgbmF0dXJlIG9m IG1hdHRlcn0NClxwYXJccGFyZFxzbDI0MFxzbG11bHQxe1xmMCAzLiB9e1xjZjFcZjEgT24g dGhlIGRpYW1hZ25ldGljIGNvbmRpdGlvbnMgb2YgZmxhbWVzIGFuZCBnYXNzZXN9DQpccGFy XHBhcmRcc2wyNDBcc2xtdWx0MQ0KXHBhclxwYXJkXHNsMjQwXHNsbXVsdDF7XGYwIFRoYXQn cyBhbGwgZm9sa3MuLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLn0NClxwYXJccGFyZFxzbDI0MFxzbG11bHQxDQpc cGFyXHBhcmRcc2wyNDBcc2xtdWx0MQ0KXHBhclxwYXJkXHNsMjQwXHNsbXVsdDENClxwYXJc cGFyZFxzbDI0MFxzbG11bHQxDQpccGFyXHBhcmRcc2wyNDBcc2xtdWx0MQ0KXHBhclxwYXJk XHNsMjQwXHNsbXVsdDF9 --------------B94865D843D109D644839CE8-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 13:16:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19839; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:15:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:15:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:15:43 -0400 Message-Id: <200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Resent-Message-ID: <"zcIlK3.0.ur4.u7gGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Michael, This is interesting. I met a kid in Switzerland in 1980 that had enrolled in a university here in the states that taught nothing but this Great Books Series that is the parent of the book that you have, evidently. It may be possible that there are more around, and it would be interesting to compare latter versions, etc.. I wish that I could remember the name of the university, but it was 20 years ago. At any rate, you know that Encyclopedia Brittanica was the owner of the copyright at that time. What was it that made you think that the University of Chicago was the copyright holder? Maybe the U of C was where they taught this series, but I was under the impression that is was a smaller, private school. Anyway, if you do get around to getting parts scanned, I'd like to see them. Thanks, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 13:46:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25401; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:46:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:46:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3942A98E.80EB74B6@groupz.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:48:14 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: "Michael S. Johnston" Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book References: <394294DA.7692EAFE@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HFxGn.0.jC6.OagGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mike....call around to some printers in your area, a number of them now have the ability to scan and put into digital format......tell them how many pages and that you want to put on internet.....let us know and those of us who are interested will let you know and we can share expenses.... steve Mike Johnston wrote: > Hi All, > > Ok, so everybody is interested in this book that I have. I'm sorry, I > can't tell you where you could get a copy of it. I will gladly give you > all of the information I have on the book and maybe that will help. I > layout or whatever. There are 601 pages of his original works in here. I > don't have a scanner so I can't get it out that way. For all I know > that point I will try to find some way to copy the entire work and get > it to those who want it (free). In the meantime I will work on manually > Sumerian summer sunshine all day long with my stylus and wet tablet of > clay in hand , but for as long as it holds my interest, I will do what I > can. > I will highlight in red the parts that I found most interesting. > Later, > MJ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: Faraday1.rtf > Faraday1.rtf Type: Rich Text Format (application/rtf) > Encoding: base64 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 14:13:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA31341; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:13:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:13:02 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:13:39 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39439eb5.128383585@mail.midiowa.net> References: <394294DA.7692EAFE@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <394294DA.7692EAFE@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA31299 Resent-Message-ID: <"4In1-.0.cf7.TzgGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Mike, On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:19:55 -0400, Mike Johnston wrote: > Ok, so everybody is interested in this book that I have. I'm sorry, I >can't tell you where you could get a copy of it. I will gladly give you >all of the information I have on the book and maybe that will help. I >just stumbled across it in an old book store. Faraday's name caught my >eye and I picked it up for .25 cents. > I will copy the Table of Contents from Faraday's portion of the book >and attach it to this message as an .rtf file (Rich Text Format). Wow!! Thanks for the effort of making that file. Where are you located? Is there anyone in this group nearby with a scanner? I'd like the whole Faraday section of that book!! >If it is indeed still interesting to you after you >review said contents and it's distribution is worthwhile to you all, at >that point I will try to find some way to copy the entire work and get >it to those who want it (free). Copying stuff costs money. Unless you're rich, you have to get something for it. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 14:20:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01389; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:19:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:19:50 -0700 Message-ID: <004701bfd321$a5e20da0$0401a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: References: <394294DA.7692EAFE@csrlink.net> <3942A98E.80EB74B6@groupz.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:20:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"qtABF.0.cL.s3hGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a good suggestion. Interesting book. Put me on the list for sharing expenses for a copy. Regards, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: sno To: Cc: Michael S. Johnston Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book > Mike....call around to some printers in your area, a number > of them now have the ability to scan and put into digital > format......tell them how many pages and that you want > to put on internet.....let us know and those of us who are > interested will let you know and we can share expenses.... > steve > > Mike Johnston wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Ok, so everybody is interested in this book that I have. I'm sorry, I > > can't tell you where you could get a copy of it. I will gladly give you > > all of the information I have on the book and maybe that will help. I > > layout or whatever. There are 601 pages of his original works in here. I > > don't have a scanner so I can't get it out that way. For all I know > > that point I will try to find some way to copy the entire work and get > > it to those who want it (free). In the meantime I will work on manually > > Sumerian summer sunshine all day long with my stylus and wet tablet of > > clay in hand , but for as long as it holds my interest, I will do what I > > can. > > I will highlight in red the parts that I found most interesting. > > Later, > > MJ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Name: Faraday1.rtf > > Faraday1.rtf Type: Rich Text Format (application/rtf) > > Encoding: base64 > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 15:34:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18770; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:34:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:34:05 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:34:43 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <3944c218.137442361@mail.midiowa.net> References: <200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA18745 Resent-Message-ID: <"GZ7cy1.0.Bb4.T9iGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:15:43 -0400, knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) wrote: >This is interesting. I met a kid in Switzerland in 1980 that had enrolled >in a university here in the states that taught nothing but this Great Books >Series that is the parent of the book that you have, evidently. There are "Great Books" on the WWW, but not much from Faraday. However, http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Tyndall/Faraday/index.html has a biography with some details. There's also a Christmas lecture about gravity. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 22:07:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA09874; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:06:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:06:41 -0700 From: JYIELD@aol.com Message-ID: <15.4f9a435.2674783c@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 01:06:04 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_15.4f9a435.2674783c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 44 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZxtAx.0.7Q2.XvnGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fwd: Removal --part1_15.4f9a435.2674783c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/9/00 10:30:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, JYIELD writes: << freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> enough is enough...take me off of this mailing --part1_15.4f9a435.2674783c_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: JYIELD@aol.com Full-name: JYIELD Message-ID: <99.5f4379c.26732c71@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:30:25 EDT Subject: Removal To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 44 I give up. Please take me off of this sometimes incoherent mailing. Thanks. --part1_15.4f9a435.2674783c_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 10 23:54:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA24066; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:53:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:53:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <15.4f9a435.2674783c@aol.com> References: <15.4f9a435.2674783c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:53:25 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Fwd: Removal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"aCCwx1.0.st5.mTpGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com JYield - Mailing requests to the list does nothing. You subscribed yourseld, now unsubscribe: ************************************************************************* * TO SUBSCRIBE: * * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * * word "subscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * * "subscribe," of course * * * * * * TO UNSUBSCRIBE: * * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * * word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * * "unsubscribe," of course. * * * ************************************************************************* - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 00:11:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27680; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:11:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:11:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 03:10:57 -0400 Message-Id: <200006110710.DAA23028@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Resent-Message-ID: <"7NgiE2.0.Pm6.5kpGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dean writes: >There are "Great Books" on the WWW, but not much from Faraday. > >However, >http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Tyndall/Faraday/index.html has a >biography with some details. There's also a Christmas lecture about >gravity. > >-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) It would be interesting to do a comparison to see what has been edited over the years, and who did the editing. Thanks for the URL, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 05:41:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01388; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 05:41:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 05:41:30 -0700 X-Sender: harti@mail.harti.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, ou-builders@egroups.com Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:41:26 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA01366 Resent-Message-ID: <"rqwaM2.0.XL.wZuGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: New Methernitha movies online... Hi, there is a 1:1 english translation of the original Methernitha Testatika video tape at: http://www.overunity.com/testatika for those of you who have difficulties to understand the second to 5th ASF videos. Click the first link: Basic information, start here ! Hi All, I have uploaded 5 new movies of the Methernitha Testatika machines. They are again in ASF format in 320x240 resolution with 25 frames/sec. Please download them first before playback. (Click the right mouse button onto the link and then click "Save as" to your local harddisk) The movies are here: http://mars.spaceports.com/~over/movies/ You need the newer free Mediaplayer 6.4 to play them, which can be found here: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia If you have a slow PC, go to File/properties/MPEG-4-Decompressor and set the CPU quality to zero. This will speed up the MPEG-4 decoding. Also don´t alter Brightness or Contrast settings, nor alter Soundequalizer settings, if you have a slow PC. The Methernitha Testatika machines are still really genius and Methernitha still keeps its function secret. But I guess Graham Gundersom has found a basic principle how it could work. Read it here: http://www.egroups.com/message/jlnlabs/5453?&start=2060 Enjoy the movies and also have a look at Methernitha´s website for the spirit of the "Pfingsten"-holidays where the Holy Ghost came down ! http://www.methernitha.com -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 05:45:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02445; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 05:45:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 05:45:27 -0700 X-Sender: harti@mail.harti.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, ou-builders@egroups.com Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:45:24 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA02421 Resent-Message-ID: <"DmrEL1.0.2c.dduGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: New Methernitha movies online... I wanted to add: Look for page 3 in the translation. There is the more technical part of it, although the inventor Mr. Baumann does explain it more with his words of a nature and spiritual based mind, which is hard to comprehend for us techies. Hi, there is a 1:1 english translation of the original Methernitha Testatika video tape at: http://www.overunity.com/testatika for those of you who have difficulties to understand the second to 5th ASF videos. Click the first link: Basic information, start here ! Hi All, I have uploaded 5 new movies of the Methernitha Testatika machines. They are again in ASF format in 320x240 resolution with 25 frames/sec. Please download them first before playback. (Click the right mouse button onto the link and then click "Save as" to your local harddisk) The movies are here: http://mars.spaceports.com/~over/movies/ You need the newer free Mediaplayer 6.4 to play them, which can be found here: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia If you have a slow PC, go to File/properties/MPEG-4-Decompressor and set the CPU quality to zero. This will speed up the MPEG-4 decoding. Also don´t alter Brightness or Contrast settings, nor alter Soundequalizer settings, if you have a slow PC. The Methernitha Testatika machines are still really genius and Methernitha still keeps its function secret. But I guess Graham Gundersom has found a basic principle how it could work. Read it here: http://www.egroups.com/message/jlnlabs/5453?&start=2060 Enjoy the movies and also have a look at Methernitha´s website for the spirit of the "Pfingsten"-holidays where the Holy Ghost came down ! http://www.methernitha.com -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 08:37:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA16428; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:36:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:36:36 -0700 Message-ID: <20000611153603.39984.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.132] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: you can run, but you can't hide Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:36:03 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"W-mr92.0.X04.48xGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Mehmet Kerim" >Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 21:05:40 GMT > ><< Hi Tim, >What you wrote below: Maybe true fact for you for where you abide. >But that's not the case for me in the rual area. >That nasty what ever it was coming down the sky like cotton fibers >was all over the place last year, made me and others sick for weeks >it was very difficuilt to breath, where were you then, to see what was >happining here? > So, are you defending some one? by making that statement below? >Hmm, whats going on guy? No, I defend no one... I have flown in a small plane over my "neck of the woods"... I live in southern california... If anyone was trying to spay us from the sky it would be a lot more effective here were population density is far greater then in rural Montana don't you think??? There is a simple game (rip-off) just pay a buck and you get to wright your name on a pice of paper an tie it to a balloon... if someone finds the downed balloon with your ticket you win the pot of money... in 25 years I've never seen one found yet... Timothy... >I am talking about experince that I personaly went through. >When you spread chemical fiber 7,8 times a day using military aircraft >eccross the land some living being is bound get into their that chemical >fiber. > >I must say that where I live at this part of the country (Montana) I see >those plains fliying accross the sky many times a day living behaind >two large lines of white cloud that last more then hour in the sky. > >I have to tell you something very interesting: I saw with my own eyes, >early >it was a crystal clear sky in the moring around 6 and 7 pm few months a go >when a few airplains spread that grey cloudy lines shortly after they >formed some kind of cloud formation and sky was completly covered and shing >Sun light was complety was blocked. >I was so panict that day seeing what they have done. I belive it had a >merrit for law a suit for blocking the light of the Sun that prevent >vegitation to grow, without the effect of the chemical human, animal and >organic life. > >I'll be happy to send you a picures if you so desire to see whats going on >here, that you may have greater realization that help you wake up from that >dream world you are !!! > >The fact is, if you know better you would do better, unless you are getting >paid by the statements you make, there is no hope f or you. >Else, picture worth 1000 words. > >Mehmet.>> > >> >>There is a pure fact of numbers that would make spraying the population >>ineffective... If you fly you would notice that people are not >>everywhere... >>In fact unless you are flying directly over a city then the likely hood of >>anything you drop from an aircraft ever hitting a person is infinitely >>small... >>This subject has been discussed by pilots for a long time... Just ask one >>about a "pilot relief tube" and see what he says... >> >>Timothy... > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 09:11:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA23282; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:10:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:10:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3943BAD9.6D1C62FA@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:14:18 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E6C60E8B454BD7335E51F2A6" Resent-Message-ID: <"hpbnQ2.0.dh5.GexGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Earth Power 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E6C60E8B454BD7335E51F2A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I copied the first part of Faraday's "Earth Power" ideas and have attached it. He goes into much more detail as to his theories. In this part his device is a coil. In the next part he uses rotating copper disks and then a rotating brass globe. All of these devices produce electricity from the magnetic field of the earth. As you will see he is a careful and thorough scientist when conducting experiments. He even advances an idea for using a series of counter rotating copper disks to generate usable amounts of power. That made me think of flywheels. I know people have been trying to take advantage of the inertia of a moving body (tends to keep moving) for a while but reading this made be think of a copper flywheel which would generate it's own electricity. Just a thought. Sort of combines both. At any rate I got tired of copying last night. As far as the electricity from steam and water goes I don't understand how it worked. It wouldn't work for him with anything but distilled water and had to be both steam AND water being ejected onto an object (such as a copper cone) to produce electricity that way. As soon as he added ANYTHING to the water (like an electrolyte) it wouldn't produce electricity any more. Strange. 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aW1hdGVseSBzdWNjZWVkZWQgaW4gb2J0YWluaW5nIHRoZSBlZmZlY3QgaW4gc2V2ZXJhbCB3 YXlzLiANClxwYXIgfQ0KAA== --------------E6C60E8B454BD7335E51F2A6-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 11:46:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32432; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:46:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:46:15 -0700 Message-ID: <002401bfd3d5$2d4bcb60$44d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:45:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LAcwQ.0.fw7.tvzGv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes, I agree, anything is possible. I don't see how there could be negative speed, but my ignorance doesn't rule it out. -----Original Message----- From: timothy richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel >> Are you saying that there is negative speed? > >No, not really. I am not making any claims as to what is really the case >with reality. I am simply saying that if you follow it out to its logical >conclusion, it appears that that is the case. Modern physics says (at least >from my understanding) that all the equations relating to speed, vectors and >so forth, should, at least theoretically, work both ways. I have absolutly >no idea how you would go about DOING it, but I believe it may be possible. >This is a totally new idea to me, and in fact, it only occured to me because >of the train of thought started by your post about C = the speed of >something through time. Of course, I am taking all this with a few thousand >grams of sodiom chloride, and you should, too. Because it also occured to >me that lauguage begins to break down here. (see archives with my post >about this problem) You see, if we say that c is the limit of difference >between "subjective" time, and "objective" time, and we know that speed = >distance x time, we must have really good definitions of distance, time, and >so forth. Try to define distance and time without refering to each other >and see what I mean. Unfortunatly, they seem to be interrelated in ways >that are difficult to understand. Speed influences distance (objects >distort, both mass and LENGTH, which is distance, from an outside observers >perspective when traveling close to c) but c is how much distance per time. >So... if distance x time influences distance, you are confronted with a >paradox. I am planning to review my Einstein, and others, soon, because >ever since I read your first post, it is really bugging the living @*&^$# >out of me. I hope to be able resolve this at least to my own satisfaction. >I will keep you posted on any other meandering, wild theories I happen to >come up with. > >Tim Richardson >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 11:53:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02493; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:53:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:53:30 -0700 Message-ID: <003901bfd3d6$30c76820$44d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:52:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"unY-22.0.sc.f0-Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: timothy richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, June 10, 2000 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... >You wrote: > >>The universe could only be described relative to the particle. >>Time and distance would be relative to the particle alone, for >without >>reference to the particle, you cannot describe the >boundaries and limits >>of the universe. > >My point here is that there would be NO time or distance in such a case. It >is not simply that they would be relative to the particle alone, because >time and distance are not in and of themselves relative to anything. They >are rather words we use to describe the relationships between two or more >things, events and so on. Those relationships can be relative, and so you >can speak about the subjective "time" of an object or event being relative, >but not the concept of time itself. The distance BETWEEN two objects can be >relative, but to speak of a single object and distance is meaningless. That >one little word says it all - between. If you have only one fundamental >partical then the distance between it and...what? There is nothing else for >the distance to be between it and, if you follow. If a monoparticulate >universe (patent pending on THAT phrase, grin) existed, then the boundaries >would be that of the particle, period, by definition. OK, here's another >way to put it: if, for example, I ask you tell me how much time has passed >between two events, it is impossible for you to do so without using a >commonly recurring event of some kind as a unit of measure, whether it be >the oscillation of a piece of quartz in an electrical field, the swinging of >a pendulum, the rising and setting of the sun or the moon, the seasons, the >stars, whatever. In our postulated monoparticulate universe (I love the >sound of that) there are no events. Nothing happens. What about the movements of the atoms in your particle? Dead. Cold. Frozen, >but not IN time, because there is no time. Because time is the description >of events, and it is nothing more. For some odd reason, people seem to want >time to be this mysterious force or entity that drags all of creation along >in its wake, rather than seeing that it is an intrinsic ASPECT of reality. >Its like.............movement. Can you have movement without something that >moves? Movement. Oh my God. Thats it. Time, matter, everything. The >whole ball of wax. I just saw it for a moment. Movement. Everything is >movement. Its beautiful. Try for a moment to see that everything - time, >matter, thought, energy, EVERYTHING is this complex...dance. How can I say >this? How can I convey it? Words are useless. > >Tim Richardson > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 13:09:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27405; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 13:09:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 13:09:00 -0700 Message-ID: <20000611200825.94543.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.21] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 13:08:25 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"onMGv2.0.0i6.P7_Gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >What about the movements of the atoms in your particle? In this particular scenario, we were using a fundamental subatomic particle. The "basic constituent of matter" which would contain nothing smaller. Of course, this is a pure thought experiment, and totally hypothetical because it appears to modern quantum physics that such a thing does not exit. I personally believe that matter could not exist in such a state, because all of your hadrons (sub-subatomic) particles seem to be PROCESSES instead of objects. This is part of what I was referring to when I said that everything is motion. Movement. We have found that the closer we peer into reality, the weirder it is. It certainly appears that matter on a subatomic level is nothing more than a special kind of movement. Energy. Of course, we've known that for a long time, but exactly how it works is still a mystery. However, this does not detract from the value of such an experiment. Is it possible for a man to ride a beam a light? I don't think so, but it was envisioning exactly this that led Einstein to the most famous of all theories and revolutionized modern physics. Tim Richardson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 17:30:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19115; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:29:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:29:33 -0700 Message-ID: <388187096.960769764029.JavaMail.root@web443-mc.mail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:29:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Doggiedoor Doomsday To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 12.73.4.171 Resent-Message-ID: <"XHE_v.0.ag4.ix2Hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Maxwell's equations for an electromagnetic field gives two solutions: Waves that travel forward in time at the speed of light, and waves that move backward in time at the speed of light. Remember, Einstein's theory of special relativity also states that the universe doesn't perfer one direction of movement more than any other direction. Theoretically, waves have at least a small probability of moving backwaed in time. They're probably as rare as a proton decay. Sincerely, Doggiedoor Doomsday Mad science thought of the day: Scientific theories are explainations between interrelated facts. Here's an example: Fact: Average I.Q.s are between 90-100 points. Fact: The average member of congress has an I.Q. of 117. Theory: Even idiots can score high on I.Q. tests. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 17:45:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24692; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:44:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:44:56 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <99.60263a8.26758c60@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:44:16 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: time travel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"7818U2.0.e16.6A3Hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/11/2000 7:29:53 PM Central Daylight Time, doggiedoom@mad.scientist.com writes: << Maxwell's equations for an electromagnetic field gives two solutions: Waves that travel forward in time at the speed of light, and waves that move backward in time at the speed of light. Remember, Einstein's theory of special relativity also states that the universe doesn't perfer one direction of movement more than any other direction. Theoretically, waves have at least a small probability of moving backwaed in time. They're probably as rare as a proton decay. Sincerely, Doggiedoor Doomsday I read somewhere (don't recall where) that someone had found evidence that anti-matter was simply regular matter traveling backwards in time. Naturally the article didn't present any hard evidence to back this up (it being a mainstream science magazine like Discover, Omni, or the like), but it might be a little more common than proton decay if that's true. Brian Drake From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 18:08:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA30747; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:07:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:07:33 -0700 Message-ID: <003b01bfd40a$582f0060$655cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <3944c218.137442361@mail.midiowa.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:05:27 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"aQvoH1.0.GW7.LV3Hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Tyndall/Faraday/index.html has a > biography with some details. There's also a Christmas lecture about > gravity. Thanks for the link. A fascinating book. Permit me to speculate wildly for a moment. I have long been puzzled by original Philadelphia Experiment claimant Carlos Allende's statement that, "if Faraday had investigated the magnetic field around a current, civizilation would NOT exist today, or if it did, the geopolitical situation would not have this time-bombish, ticking-off-toward-destruction, attitude that it does." The obvious problem is that Faraday *did* investigate the magnetic field around a current -- it was his best-known work! So we are apparently left with the probability that Allende is making the whole thing up, and possibly crazy besides. I was briefly intrigued by the claim of people like Searle and DePalma that Faraday's homopolar generator effect could result in free energy, but their claims have suffered from lack of replication -- in Searle's case, even by himself! -- and in my opinion Hoagland does nothing to put them on a sound theoretical basis (or anything else for that matter.) However, in browsing the above-mentioned book, I was reminded that Faraday had also discovered polarization rotation of light by a magnetic field. He was unable to reproduce it in air, but what if it were possible with a field strength exceeding what was available in Faraday's time? What if the Navy was trying to alter the polarization characteristics of the air surrounding the ship so much that it absorbed all incoming light? Would this be possible? Of course, Allende claims that the ship didn't just disappear, it dematerialized as well. What if they went beyond polarization rotation and into the realm of the Aharonov-Bohm effect, where a strong magnetic vector potential directly alters the quantum wave function of particles traveling through it? Yes, quantum phenomena aren't supposed to happen to non-quantum-scale particles, but I have read recently that a beam of C70 molecules was found to produce a wave interference pattern in a two-slit experiment. The above is, of course, pure fantasy. Most likely Allende is off his rocker. But could it happen? -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 11 22:45:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA02016; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 22:44:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 22:44:33 -0700 Message-ID: <20000612054400.79855.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.225.190] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Earth Power 1 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 22:44:00 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"1hUHE1.0.PV.0Z7Hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This sounds wonderful!!! But I use a mac... Can someone please change the "rtf" file to something I can open and read??? Please :) Timothy... >From: Mike Johnston >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: "Michael S. Johnston" >Subject: [FG]: Earth Power 1 >Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:14:18 -0400 > >Hi All, > I copied the first part of Faraday's "Earth Power" ideas and have >attached it. He goes into much more detail as to his theories. In this >part his device is a coil. In the next part he uses rotating copper >disks and then a rotating brass globe. All of these devices produce >electricity from the magnetic field of the earth. As you will see he is >a careful and thorough scientist when conducting experiments. He even >advances an idea for using a series of counter rotating copper disks to >generate usable amounts of power. > That made me think of flywheels. I know people have been trying to >take advantage of the inertia of a moving body (tends to keep moving) >for a while but reading this made be think of a copper flywheel which >would generate it's own electricity. Just a thought. Sort of combines >both. At any rate I got tired of copying last night. > As far as the electricity from steam and water goes I don't >understand how it worked. It wouldn't work for him with anything but >distilled water and had to be both steam AND water being ejected onto an >object (such as a copper cone) to produce electricity that way. As soon >as he added ANYTHING to the water (like an electrolyte) it wouldn't >produce electricity any more. Strange. >MJ ><< earthpower1.rtf >> ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 01:02:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA21738; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:02:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:02:26 -0700 Message-ID: <002101bfd444$d0afa5a0$62f14ed8@pavilion> From: "Joe May" To: References: <003901bfd3d6$30c76820$44d666ce@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 04:04:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"jEm772.0.ZJ5.Ia9Hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nothing happens until something moves. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... > > -----Original Message----- > From: timothy richardson > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Saturday, June 10, 2000 3:27 AM > Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... > > > >You wrote: > > > >>The universe could only be described relative to the particle. > >>Time and distance would be relative to the particle alone, for >without > >>reference to the particle, you cannot describe the >boundaries and limits > >>of the universe. > > > >My point here is that there would be NO time or distance in such a case. > It > >is not simply that they would be relative to the particle alone, because > >time and distance are not in and of themselves relative to anything. They > >are rather words we use to describe the relationships between two or more > >things, events and so on. Those relationships can be relative, and so you > >can speak about the subjective "time" of an object or event being relative, > >but not the concept of time itself. The distance BETWEEN two objects can be > >relative, but to speak of a single object and distance is meaningless. That > >one little word says it all - between. If you have only one fundamental > >partical then the distance between it and...what? There is nothing else > for > >the distance to be between it and, if you follow. If a monoparticulate > >universe (patent pending on THAT phrase, grin) existed, then the boundaries > >would be that of the particle, period, by definition. OK, here's another > >way to put it: if, for example, I ask you tell me how much time has passed > >between two events, it is impossible for you to do so without using a > >commonly recurring event of some kind as a unit of measure, whether it be > >the oscillation of a piece of quartz in an electrical field, the swinging > of > >a pendulum, the rising and setting of the sun or the moon, the seasons, the > >stars, whatever. In our postulated monoparticulate universe (I love the > >sound of that) there are no events. Nothing happens. > > What about the movements of the atoms in your particle? > > Dead. Cold. Frozen, > >but not IN time, because there is no time. Because time is the description > >of events, and it is nothing more. For some odd reason, people seem to > want > >time to be this mysterious force or entity that drags all of creation along > >in its wake, rather than seeing that it is an intrinsic ASPECT of reality. > >Its like.............movement. Can you have movement without something that > >moves? Movement. Oh my God. Thats it. Time, matter, everything. The > >whole ball of wax. I just saw it for a moment. Movement. Everything is > >movement. Its beautiful. Try for a moment to see that everything - time, > >matter, thought, energy, EVERYTHING is this complex...dance. How can I say > >this? How can I convey it? Words are useless. > > > >Tim Richardson > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 05:38:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA05093; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:37:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:37:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3944DA6E.9EA729C8@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:41:19 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book References: <200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <3944c218.137442361@mail.midiowa.net> <003b01bfd40a$582f0060$655cadd1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EZme4.0.PF1.WcDHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jim, See below for responses; "Jim Shaffer, Jr." wrote: > > http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Tyndall/Faraday/index.html has a > > biography with some details. There's also a Christmas lecture about > > gravity. All the stuff talked about in the biography is IN this book. > Permit me to speculate wildly for a moment. I have long been puzzled by > original Philadelphia Experiment claimant Carlos Allende's statement that, "if > Faraday had investigated the magnetic field around a current, civizilation would > NOT exist today, or if it did, the geopolitical situation would not have this > time-bombish, ticking-off-toward-destruction, attitude that it does." The > obvious problem is that Faraday *did* investigate the magnetic field around a > current -- it was his best-known work! Now we know he also investigated the ELECTRIC current around a magnet (the earth). Maybe that is what Allende meant. Or maybe he was lying. > So we are apparently left with the > probability that Allende is making the whole thing up, and possibly crazy > besides. I was briefly intrigued by the claim of people like Searle and DePalma > that Faraday's homopolar generator effect could result in free energy, but their > claims have suffered from lack of replication -- in Searle's case, even by > himself! -- and in my opinion Hoagland does nothing to put them on a sound > theoretical basis (or anything else for that matter.) When did Hoagland write about this stuff? (Richard C. ?) > > > However, in browsing the above-mentioned book, I was reminded that Faraday had > also discovered polarization rotation of light by a magnetic field. Also the magnetic field effect on flame and smoke. Weird. Also he experimented with many diamagnetic substances including copper, silver and dried beef (I'm serious). By the way beef, both fresh and dried, when suspended from a string in a magnetic field does align itself across the lines of magnetic force and so is diamagnetic. So is blood. Just a thought but are diamagnetic substances not necessarily lining up to be across the magnetic field but WITH the electric field? Also he speculates briefly on whether or not the moving balls of light in the sky are lightning. He says that if they were electrical in nature they should not be visible as balls because they would be traveling at the speed of light and so would appear as a line in the sky. Was he talking about ball lightning or UFO's here? He isn't specific enough to know for sure. MJ > He was > unable to reproduce it in air, but what if it were possible with a field > strength exceeding what was available in Faraday's time? What if the Navy was > trying to alter the polarization characteristics of the air surrounding the ship > so much that it absorbed all incoming light? Would this be possible? What if you could ionize the air around an object so that it is repelled from the object AND at the same time had a large power source which generated electricity from the earth's fields? Would the back emf be enough to levitate the generator above the magnetic field of the earth? If it is like other magnets it should be. By doing these two things you would eliminate the effects of gravity wouldn't you? > Of > course, Allende claims that the ship didn't just disappear, it dematerialized as > well. What if they went beyond polarization rotation and into the realm of the > Aharonov-Bohm effect, where a strong magnetic vector potential directly alters > the quantum wave function of particles traveling through it? Yes, quantum > phenomena aren't supposed to happen to non-quantum-scale particles, but I have > read recently that a beam of C70 molecules was found to produce a wave > interference pattern in a two-slit experiment. > > The above is, of course, pure fantasy. Most likely Allende is off his rocker. > But could it happen? > > -- > "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine > by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction > was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity > because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 05:47:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07967; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:47:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:47:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3944DCB3.955F111D@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:51:00 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i2rFj1.0.Ky1.dlDHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Lead-Acid batteries as Electrolysis units Lead Acid storage Batteries as Experimental Electrolysis Devices By Michael Johnston Copyright 2000 Before I even get started into the body of this piece I want to mention a few rather important points for anyone who may consider trying to duplicate the experiments that I propose herein: 1) Hydrogen gas is flammable. When mixed with Oxygen (g) it is explosive. Violently so. 2) When a lead acid battery is overcharged it produces Hydrogen and Oxygen gasses in copious quantities. 3) Explosive gasses + bare metal + electricity = possible spark = BIG BANG = Sulfuric Acid and plastic shrapnel all over you. Not fun. Be careful. In the electrolysis experiments that I propose I believe the best experimental electrolysis device to be used would be the common Lead Acid, automotive storage battery. The reasons for this belief are as follows: 1) COST- To set up a proper electrolytic cell for the separation of water (in it's best form) requires the use of an inert metal for the electrodes. This is because any other metal is going to participate in the reaction and take some of the available electrical energy away from being used to separate water. The best metal for this purpose is Platinum. Unfortunately the cost of even small quantities of Platinum makes the use of this metal impossible for persons of average means. It would also certainly be a prohibitive factor in the mass production of any device for this purpose.. Batteries of the type that I suggest cost between $50 and $100 US. A big difference. 2) ELECTRODE SIZE- Even if you were able to get small amounts of Platinum for experimental purposes the tiny size of the electrodes that you could make with it would probably not produce enough gasses to be worthwhile. THIS IS NOT BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T, but because you won't be able to pass the same amount of electricity through a tiny electrode as you could through one of larger surface area. In Faraday's experiments he did prove this. Quantity of gasses produced is SOLELY dependent upon the amount of current that is passing through the electrolysis cell. The reason that the size of the electrodes are a factor in the production of gasses is that more electricity is able to pass through their area (in most cases, depending on the metals being used for each and the actual current involved) than would pass through a smaller surface area at any given moment and consequently you will be able to release MORE of the total amount that it is possible to release at a given level of current. Once that maximum quantity is reached for that current it doesn't matter how much larger you make the electrodes you will not produce any more gasses unless you increase the current that you are supplying to the system. To a lesser extent it would seem that the quantity of gasses evolved may depend on the proximity of the water to the metal of the electrode . This is because the gasses are evolved only at or near the surface of said electrodes. If this were not the case then gasses would be forming in the center of the cell as well, which they do not. For this reason it would seem advisable to make the electrodes as large as is practical to both facilitate the unobstructed passage of as much of the available current as is possible and to allow this current a large surface area so that it can interact with as much of the available water at this surface as is possible. The lead acid storage battery does this because it's electrodes are constructed of large, multiple plates. This has been found to be the best arrangement in order to allow as much of the electrolyte within the battery to act upon the metal of the electrodes as possible at any given moment, limited by the internal resistance of the battery and the amount of current present. Even though it is perhaps not immediately apparent the process of a battery being charged and discharged is exactly the same as the process of water being disassociated and recombined. Both are dependent on chemical decomposition and recombination where the decomposition is accomplished by an electric current and the recombination releases energy. Coincidentally it releases an amount of energy that is directly proportional to the amount of electricity that was used to cause the decomposition. Therefore many (if not most) of the laws which apply to the workings of a battery should be able to be borrowed directly and incorporated into the design of electrolytic cells. 3) INERT METAL: A Lead Acid storage battery stores up electricity in the form of chemical energy. This energy is stored by the process of the electrolyte (dilute Sulfuric Acid) acting upon the metal (Lead) of the electrodes under the influence of an electric current. As the reaction progresses lead is carried from the positive electrode to the negative electrode. As a result, when the battery is fully charged, the negative electrode is composed of lead oxide and the positive electrode is made of pure, spongy lead. Once this state (full charge) is reached, if the charging current is not interrupted or significantly diminished, the combination of electrolyte and electricity will begin to cause the separation of the water that is contained in the battery (in solution with the Sulfuric Acid electrolyte) into it's constituent gasses (H2 and O2), making it appear to "boil" within the battery. Now, the Lead electrodes are no longer participating in the chemical reactions that are taking place within the battery and so the metal, beyond it's resistance, is no longer using any of the electrical current that is passing through the cell. Therefore, for the purposes required in an electrolytic cell, the lead electrodes are now acting as though they were composed of an inert metal such as Platinum in this respect. Lead is certainly not actually an inert metal and unlike Platinum has no known catalytic effect upon the separation of water but for the purposes of directing the power of the electricity that is being supplied, as much as is possible, into only the separation of water and consequent production of H2 and O2 gasses, it is indeed now acting in the same manner as would an inert metal such as Platinum. To be continued........ MJ P.S. I will cover "how to avoid damaging your battery" in the next installment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 07:42:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20768; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 07:41:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 07:41:36 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:07:56 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000610072615.56154.qmail@hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20000610072615.56154.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0006121055240G.01482@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA20735 Resent-Message-ID: <"HBAK73.0.P45.WQFHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, timothy richardson wrote: > Movement. Oh my God. Thats it. Time, matter, everything. > The whole ball of wax. I just saw it for a moment. Movement. > Everything is movement. Its beautiful. Try for a moment to > see that everything - time, matter, thought, energy, > EVERYTHING is this complex...dance. How can I say this? > How can I convey it? Words are useless. I find these moments of vision mind-boggling. A recent episode occurred when I constructed a 4D hypercube from Zome, as well as a regular 3D cube and a six-sided planar figure. I was contemplating the fact that all three looked identical and was relating that to my concept of a non-infinately-divisable, fixed (more-or-less) point space when I 'saw' a wave transverse the points, add and interact with other waves and in an explosion of vision saw super-strings forms, atoms pop into existance, DNA being created and a multitude of other constructs. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 08:55:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15711; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:54:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:54:15 -0700 Message-ID: <21818173.960825223401.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:53:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Demon Killah Reply-To: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 142.165.110.157 Resent-Message-ID: <"yzw9-.0.Jr3.dUGHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Cause and effect Why is the universe here? Why is there something instead of nothing? The first law of physics is "out of nothing nothing comes." A solid state universe is impossible because of entropy, the fact that the level of useable energy in the universe is decreasing. The universe must have been from a big bang. But the big bang is an effect and every effect needs a cause. An effect cannot exist without a cause. Yet before 10 to the power of 40th of a second scientists cannot calculate or recreate any events before that time. What happened before barrier when the universe was only a foot across. I must conclude that the universe was caused by an uncaused cause. Or maybe the universe was caused by a cause caused by an uncaused cause. The one thing I can say is that no matter how many causes and effects there were before the universe there had to be one the very first a uncaused cause. What is this uncaused cause? Is it some cosmic grenade that lay dormant for unthinkable time and then exploded creating matter and the universe. I am however for some reason inclined to think. Maybe there is a God. Even if there is no proof for this there iswn't any proof against it either. Look at all the complex things that have to happen to form dna. Protein itself is incredibly complex and you need about fifty diferent types of proteins to form into a double helix in a complex pattern and thern just look at the complexity of a cell. How can blind chance create something as amazing and unique as that. Anything beyond one chance in 10-14 (10 to the power of 14) is impossible. Then chances of a single cell being created is far beyond that number. Maybe man was created along with life for some special cosmic purpose by a omnicient omnipresent and omnipowerful God. That I think is the question of life the key to our whole purpose here on earth. Or maybe i'm a nutcase I don't know but there are answers and I am looking for them. ___________________________________________________________ ---------------------------,-Matt-------------------------- Matthew.Carter@Excite.com ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 11:37:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20406; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:35:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:35:39 -0700 Message-ID: <20000612183501.62490.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.143] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:35:01 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"IutD_3.0.d-4.xrIHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Gravity as an Electro-Static Artifact While researching for my own Electrostatic Gravity Theory I read "An Electrostatic Solution for the Gravity Force and the Value of G" By Morton F. Spears at http://members.aol.com/tigermfs/ Interesting to me in that I'm looking at gravity in a much similar way. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 12:39:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18094; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:36:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:36:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000612054400.79855.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000612054400.79855.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:36:34 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Earth Power 1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"ch1D_2.0.cQ4.OlJHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:44 PM -0700 6/11/00, Timothy Flytch wrote: >This sounds wonderful!!! >But I use a mac... >Can someone please change the "rtf" file to something I can open and read??? >Please :) > >Timothy... RTF is "Rich Text Format". Any Mac word processor can open it. ClarisWorks (AppleWorks), Word, etc. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 12:56:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27244; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:53:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:53:58 -0700 Message-ID: <200006121452370790.01C23512@mail.texas.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20000612054400.79855.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:52:37 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Earth Power 1 Resent-Message-ID: <"t34wI.0.Xf6.M_JHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 6/12/00, at 9:36 AM, Rick Monteverde wrote: >At 10:44 PM -0700 6/11/00, Timothy Flytch wrote: > >>Can someone please change the "rtf" file to something I can open and read??? > >RTF is "Rich Text Format". Any Mac word processor can open it. If worse comes to worse, Adobe has a free document conversion to PDF service (for some limited number of pages)... or I might be able to convert (I have Adobe Acrobat). Edwin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 18:18:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31514; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:17:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:17:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:17:09 -0400 Message-Id: <200006130117.VAA07596@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Earth Power 1 Resent-Message-ID: <"MMWJx3.0.Ji7.OkOHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ed writes: >If worse comes to worse, Adobe has a free document conversion to PDF >service (for some limited number of pages)... or I might be able to convert >(I have Adobe Acrobat). > >Edwin All it is, is text. Just save it as a .txt document, and forget about it. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 19:30:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA30576; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:30:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:30:03 -0700 Message-ID: <00cf01bfd4df$090548c0$9f5cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <3944c218.137442361@mail.midiowa.net> <003b01bfd40a$582f0060$655cadd1@default> <3944DA6E.9EA729C8@csrlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:28:04 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"VLKs32.0.fT7.goPHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > When did Hoagland write about this stuff? (Richard C. ?) About the time of the tethered satellite experiment. He claimed that the reason the tether broke was because it tapped an anomalous effect and generated enough electricity to burn through it. You may wish to visit his web site at www.enterprisemission.com, where he attempts to fit any odd events into his particular theory of the universe. Be warned that his image analysis leaves much to be desired. He hasn't given up on the Martian artifacts hypothesis despite the new high-resolution images showing nothing of significance; rather, he finds even *more* so-called anomalies that don't look like anything to me. > Also the magnetic field effect on flame and smoke. Weird. Also he experimented with > many diamagnetic substances including copper, silver and dried beef (I'm serious). > By the way beef, both fresh and dried, when suspended from a string in a magnetic > field does align itself across the lines of magnetic force and so is diamagnetic. So > is blood. Just a thought but are diamagnetic substances not necessarily lining up to > be across the magnetic field but WITH the electric field? I really don't know. I've never heard of a magnetic effect on diamagnetic substances. Certainly in the case of flame there could be an electric effect, and on smoke there would be an electrostatic effect noticeable at high enough voltages, but copper, silver, and beef? There is something odd going on with living systems and electromagnetic fields. See http://www.danwinter.com/CALLAHAN/callahan.html, http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/street/abx91/page16.html, and http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05247933__&language=en for starters. I hope that someday the findings of Wilhelm Reich can be explained in terms of physics that Reich, not being a physicist, was probably unaware of, such as the four-field Maxwell equations and the quantum zero point energy. There may be no reason to postulate a new form of energy such as he did. > Also he speculates briefly on whether or not the moving balls of light in the sky > are lightning. He says that if they were electrical in nature they should not be > visible as balls because they would be traveling at the speed of light and so would > appear as a line in the sky. Was he talking about ball lightning or UFO's here? He > isn't specific enough to know for sure. Very strange. I don't believe ball lightning was accepted by physicists until late in this century. But on the other hand, there is no reason to assume that electricity travels at the speed of light, if one is referring to electrons rather than electric fields. I really don't know what he was talking about here either. -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 12 22:18:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25794; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:18:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:18:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00cf01bfd4df$090548c0$9f5cadd1@default> References: <200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <3944c218.137442361@mail.midiowa.net> <003b01bfd40a$582f0060$655cadd1@default> <3944DA6E.9EA729C8@csrlink.net> <00cf01bfd4df$090548c0$9f5cadd1@default> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:06:57 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"mIVl-2.0.xI6.NGSHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:28 PM -0400 6/12/00, Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: >I really don't know. I've never heard of a magnetic effect on diamagnetic >substances. ...Other than the fact they're repelled by magnetic fields, right? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 04:17:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA26199; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:17:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:17:20 -0700 Message-ID: <062601bfd528$1348a7c0$01fefea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , References: <21818173.960825223401.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:11:04 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"c3js63.0.8P6.0XXHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect What is entropy? If you can answer this question than you can answer the others too. Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Demon Killah" To: Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 8:53 AM Subject: [FG]: Cause and effect > Why is the universe here? Why is there something instead of nothing? The > first law of physics is "out of nothing nothing comes." A solid state > universe is impossible because of entropy, the fact that the level of > useable energy in the universe is decreasing. The universe must have been > from a big bang. But the big bang is an effect and every effect needs a > cause. An effect cannot exist without a cause. Yet before 10 to the power > of 40th of a second scientists cannot calculate or recreate any events > before that time. What happened before barrier when the universe was only a > foot across. I must conclude that the universe was caused by an uncaused > cause. Or maybe the universe was caused by a cause caused by an uncaused > cause. The one thing I can say is that no matter how many causes and > effects there were before the universe there had to be one the very first a > uncaused cause. What is this uncaused cause? Is it some cosmic grenade > that lay dormant for unthinkable time and then exploded creating matter and > the universe. I am however for some reason inclined to think. Maybe there > is a God. Even if there is no proof for this there iswn't any proof against > it either. Look at all the complex things that have to happen to form dna. > Protein itself is incredibly complex and you need about fifty diferent types > of proteins to form into a double helix in a complex pattern and thern just > look at the complexity of a cell. How can blind chance create something as > amazing and unique as that. Anything beyond one chance in 10-14 (10 to the > power of 14) is impossible. Then chances of a single cell being created is > far beyond that number. Maybe man was created along with life for some > special cosmic purpose by a omnicient omnipresent and omnipowerful God. > That I think is the question of life the key to our whole purpose here on > earth. Or maybe i'm a nutcase I don't know but there are answers and I am > looking for them. > ___________________________________________________________ > ---------------------------,-Matt-------------------------- > Matthew.Carter@Excite.com > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 04:24:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA27980; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:24:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:24:30 -0700 Message-ID: <065001bfd529$135cfda0$01fefea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , References: <20000610072615.56154.qmail@hotmail.com> <0006121055240G.01482@cougar> Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:18:14 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"dREQd.0.5r6.kdXHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Quite fascinating. Where I can see it? Do you have a website that you could refer me to? Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Hodgson" To: Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 7:07 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... > On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, timothy richardson wrote: > > Movement. Oh my God. Thats it. Time, matter, everything. > > The whole ball of wax. I just saw it for a moment. Movement. > > Everything is movement. Its beautiful. Try for a moment to > > see that everything - time, matter, thought, energy, > > EVERYTHING is this complex...dance. How can I say this? > > How can I convey it? Words are useless. > > I find these moments of vision mind-boggling. > > A recent episode occurred when I constructed a 4D hypercube > from Zome, as well as a regular 3D cube and a six-sided planar figure. > I was contemplating the fact that all three looked identical and was > relating that to my concept of a non-infinately-divisable, fixed > (more-or-less) point space when I 'saw' a wave transverse the points, > add and interact with other waves and in an explosion of vision saw > super-strings forms, atoms pop into existance, DNA being created and > a multitude of other constructs. > > Charlie > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 05:31:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14932; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:30:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:30:50 -0700 Message-ID: <20000613123016.50527.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.147] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:30:16 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"enT1b2.0.Df3.wbYHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Anna M*" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: , >Subject: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:11:04 -0700 > >What is entropy? >If you can answer this question than you can answer the others too. >Anna I'm assuming this is a retorical question, if not: Entropy is a misguided belief that there is a hypothetical tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 06:22:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29763; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:22:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:22:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01bfd53a$368887c0$a4d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:20:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"SF-rq2.0.yG7.xLZHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: Colin Cain To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect > > > >>From: "Anna M*" >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: , >>Subject: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect >>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:11:04 -0700 >> >>What is entropy? >>If you can answer this question than you can answer the others too. >>Anna > > >I'm assuming this is a retorical question, if not: > >Entropy is a misguided belief that there is a hypothetical tendency for all >matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert >uniformity. Damn entropy, who was the guy who came up with that one? I forgot... > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 06:30:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA01230; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:30:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:30:26 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: "Anna M*" , Subject: Re: [FG]: universe as a collective effect... Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:30:39 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000610072615.56154.qmail@hotmail.com> <0006121055240G.01482@cougar> <065001bfd529$135cfda0$01fefea9@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <065001bfd529$135cfda0$01fefea9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00061309441500.32461@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id GAA01169 Resent-Message-ID: <"-UEj53.0.-I.nTZHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Anna M* wrote: > Quite fascinating. Where I can see it? > Do you have a website that you could refer me to? > You can only see it in your mind. It's the result of mental gymnastics. It's just like when you are trying to remember some fact, like the name of a song, and the answer 'flashes' accoss your mind so fast that you can't snag it, but you KNOW it was the answer. This is similar, but not the same. I have many theories (some conflicting others), questions, etc, and these episodes seem to be a reconciliation proccess of the mind, taking new info and applying it to things already known, the end result sometimes being a better understanding of these things we contemplate, though more often than not, it just leads to more questions. Charlie -- 10 is a Dark blue 7 > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Charlie Hodgson wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, timothy richardson wrote: > > > Movement. Oh my God. Thats it. Time, matter, everything. > > > The whole ball of wax. I just saw it for a moment. Movement. > > > Everything is movement. Its beautiful. Try for a moment to > > > see that everything - time, matter, thought, energy, > > > EVERYTHING is this complex...dance. How can I say this? > > > How can I convey it? Words are useless. > > > > I find these moments of vision mind-boggling. > > > > A recent episode occurred when I constructed a 4D hypercube > > from Zome, as well as a regular 3D cube and a six-sided planar > > figure. I was contemplating the fact that all three looked > > identical and was relating that to my concept of a > > non-infinately-divisable, fixed (more-or-less) point space > > when I 'saw' a wave transverse the points, add and interact with > > other waves and in an explosion of vision saw super-strings > > forms, atoms pop into existance, DNA being created and a > > multitude of other constructs. > > > > Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 06:30:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA01305; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:30:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:30:33 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01bfd53b$27886460$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:01:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"nnBGk1.0.CK.vTZHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Hi Matthew > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Demon Killah" > foot across. I must conclude that the universe was caused by an uncaused > cause. ***We are a long way from 'knowing' how the universe was created, if at all. > it either. Look at all the complex things that have to happen to form >dna. Protein itself is incredibly complex and you need about fifty diferent > types of proteins to form into a double helix in a complex pattern and thern > just look at the complexity of a cell. How can blind chance create something > as amazing and unique as that. Anything beyond one chance in 10-14 (10 to > the power of 14) is impossible. Then chances of a single cell being created > is far beyond that number. ***The fifty or so amino acids (proteins) you mention are common throughout the universe. It is easy to look at a complex system such as DNA and conclude that it could not be created by blind chance. Richard Dawkins, in his book 'Climbing Mount Improbable', provides excellent insights into how complex life systems came into being. ***Proteins can perform just about any chemical process in the right conditions. I find the unknown path from self replicating protein to cell based 'organism' easier to swallow than any deity based theory. DNA is, in essence, the most successful self-replicating protein, achieving this by engineering huge 'vehicles' to propogate itself. ***Would you call any of the known (simple) self replicating proteins life? If not, why? You could say that the self replicating protein is a higher form of life than a virus, because a virus cannot self-replicate without a host. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 06:44:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA07799; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:43:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:43:48 -0700 Message-ID: <006e01bfd53d$1068fae0$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <20000613123016.50527.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:40:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"kIf9U.0.dv1.KgZHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC] Cause and effect Hi Colin If this is a misguided belief, can you give a single example of anything that does not obey entropy (tend towards a more disordered state)? We know from chaos that a disordered state can also tend to an ordered state. Everything seems to run in cycles. Best regards David Callaghan ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Cain > Entropy is a misguided belief that there is a hypothetical tendency for all > matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert > uniformity. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 06:57:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13862; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:57:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:57:21 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC] Cause and effect Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:05:51 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000613123016.50527.qmail@hotmail.com> <006e01bfd53d$1068fae0$96d2989e@dave> In-Reply-To: <006e01bfd53d$1068fae0$96d2989e@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00061310112701.32461@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id GAA13839 Resent-Message-ID: <"PcJf71.0.UO3.0tZHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, David Callaghan wrote: > If this is a misguided belief, can you give a > single example of anything that does not obey > entropy (tend towards a more disordered state)? 1/ I'd say NOTHING was more ordered than the timeless, non-dimensional singularity which is purported to fuel the big-bang. 15 Billion years of disorder and chaos followed ..... 2/ MOB Mentality. 3/ Anarchy 4/ Democracy 5/ My workshop Charlie -- 10 is a Dark Blue 7 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 07:05:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA17920; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:04:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:04:34 -0700 Message-ID: <20000613140400.48998.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.147] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC] Cause and effect Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:03:59 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"1mMjM1.0.uN4.ozZHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Exactly. As I see the word entropy used everything would eventually run down to "a state of inert uniformity". It does appear that everything runs in cycles, not reaching "inert uniformity", but building stress that eventually erupts into seeming disorder. Then perhaps I'm the truely misguided one. >From: "David Callaghan" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC] Cause and effect >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:40:47 +0100 > >Hi Colin > >If this is a misguided belief, can you give a >single example of anything that does not obey >entropy (tend towards a more disordered state)? >We know from chaos that a disordered state can >also tend to an ordered state. Everything seems >to run in cycles. > >Best regards >David Callaghan > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Colin Cain > > Entropy is a misguided belief that there is a >hypothetical tendency for all > > matter and energy in the universe to evolve >toward a state of inert > > uniformity. > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 08:00:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06762; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:59:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:59:07 -0700 Message-ID: <383348537.960908340838.JavaMail.root@web307-mc.mail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:59:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Doggiedoor Doomsday To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC] Cause and effect Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 206.117.222.10 Resent-Message-ID: <"9NUGq2.0.Zf1.wmaHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In Michael Talbot's book Holographic Universe, it mentions a drum with a liquid. When you put a drop of Glycerine in it, it gets randomly disolved. When you turn a shaft in one direction, the drop comes back together again (sorry, it's been about a year since I read that book, so I'll have to check the book later to see if there's more information. I am repeating purely from memory). ------Original Message------ From: "David Callaghan" To: Sent: June 13, 2000 1:40:47 PM GMT Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC] Cause and effect Hi Colin If this is a misguided belief, can you give a single example of anything that does not obey entropy (tend towards a more disordered state)? We know from chaos that a disordered state can also tend to an ordered state. Everything seems to run in cycles. Best regards David Callaghan ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Cain > Entropy is a misguided belief that there is a hypothetical tendency for all > matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert > uniformity. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 08:35:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19392; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:34:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:34:27 -0700 Message-ID: <001001bfd54c$84a686c0$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <383348537.960908340838.JavaMail.root@web307-mc.mail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:31:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"TWLqO3.0.jk4.3IbHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [OFF TOPIC] Cause and effect Hi By expending energy (turning the shaft) you can temporalily reverse entropy. Eventually the drum would lose its liquid and the shaft would seize. If you left the drum still long enough, the odds are the Glycerine would get back together on its own. One day!?! David Callaghan ----- Original Message ----- From: Doggiedoor Doomsday > In Michael Talbot's book Holographic Universe, it mentions a drum with a > liquid. When you put a drop of Glycerine in it, it gets randomly disolved. > When you turn a shaft in one direction, the drop comes back together again > (sorry, it's been about a year since I read that book, so I'll have to check > the book later to see if there's more information. I am repeating purely > from memory). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 08:54:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27175; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:53:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:53:42 -0700 Message-ID: <20000613155303.97094.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.114] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:53:03 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"AKbVz2.0.Re6.5abHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [FG] The answer is 42.... It seems that there is a lot of interest in the fundamental structure of reality and the universe, and the origins of that structure. Note all the recent posts - time travel, universe as a collective effort, and cause and effect. Personally, I believe that this will eventually lead us (or someone) to a better understanding which will lead to practical applications of advanced technology. I guess this is something of an effort to explain why I post philosophy on a technical site. Of course science is merely a branch of philosophy, and I think this is why our meanderings are grudgingly tolerated by the less esoterically minded here. Any thoughts, Bill? At any rate, here is my take on entropy. (deep breath) Entopy is the tendency (not law) for ordered systems to move from a higher state of asymmetrical order to a lower state of symmetrical order. This results in less overall available useable energy for the system. (How we define order is important as well. For example, no one would deny that W. Shakespeare created some highly ordered works, but you could not extract usable energy from this order because it is perceptual order.) However, I do believe the process is reversable. Simply because I believe in infinity. I mean by this, that I believe that "something" has always existed. Tim Richardson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 09:02:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA31959; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:01:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:01:34 -0700 Message-ID: <002501bfd550$eff87240$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <394294DA.7692EAFE@csrlink.net> <3942A98E.80EB74B6@groupz.net> <004701bfd321$a5e20da0$0401a8c0@m> Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:03:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"U0oIY3.0.1p7.PhbHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a good suggestion. Interesting book. Put me on the list for sharing expenses for a copy. Sam Garza > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sno > To: > Cc: Michael S. Johnston > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 1:48 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book > > > > Mike....call around to some printers in your area, a number > > of them now have the ability to scan and put into digital > > format......tell them how many pages and that you want > > to put on internet.....let us know and those of us who are > > interested will let you know and we can share expenses.... > > steve > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 10:42:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06302; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:40:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:40:55 -0700 Message-ID: <394672DC.5EA755C5@csrlink.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:43:57 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"51xqH1.0.FY1.d8dHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Faraday on UFOs (or Ball Lighting)? Hi, In reading my Faraday book I came upon an interesting paragraph. He is discussing different types of electricity and how it appears. He just kind of throws this bit in as a "for what it's worth" kind of thing. Considering that he wrote it in the early 1800's it is sort of unique. We are all aware that he was well aquatinted with electricity and the terminology associated with it, after all, he coined a lot of the terms himself. He doesn't refer to whatever he is talking about as a "spark" or "glow". Instead, he uses the word "flame" which he doesn't use anywhere else in regard to an electrical discharge. Here it is so make of it what you will..... MJ THIRTEENTH SERIES 19. Nature of electrical current Paragraph 1641 Read March 15, 1838 By Michael Faraday Transcribed by Enki 1641. Electric discharges in the atmosphere in the form of balls of fire have occasionally been described. Such phenomena appear to me to be incompatible with all that we know of electricity and it's modes of discharge. As time is an element in the effect (1418, 1436) it is possible perhaps that an electric discharge might really pass as a ball from place to place; but as everything shows that it's velocity must be almost infinite, and the time of it's duration exceedingly small, it is impossible that the eye should perceive it as anything else than a line of light. That phenomena of balls of fire may appear in the atmosphere, I do not mean to deny; but that they have anything to do with the discharge of ordinary electricity, or are at all related to lightning or atmospheric electricity, is much more than doubtful. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 10:42:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06491; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:41:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:41:38 -0700 Message-ID: <20000613174101.51648.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.24] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: [FG] The answer is 42....+ infinity Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:41:00 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"CW77t2.0.Fb1.G9dHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Let's do go on about the "fundamental structure of reality and the universe". In my quest, I've had to abandon the "standard model" because it does not "fit", it is impossible to explain without creating hypothetical (read that imaginary) particles, forces and processes that inturn beget hypothetical (read that imaginary) particles, forces and processes ad infinim. While pursuing Anti-Gravity it has developed, in my mind, that the universe, the whole vast empty space of it, is one never ending "stressed dielectric". The BIG BANG, if there was one, was an event caused by a rupture of the dielectric. Now for me it begins to make sense because from this condition and accompanying event I can create a satisfactory model for myself. I must stress that this is "for myself", I don't offer it as a solution for everyone, it works with my Electrostatic Anti-Gravity theories, that's all I need, that's all it takes, that's all. Within this framework I now have an Electrostatic Universe where my Electrostatic Antigravity devices work. Now the door is open, take a shot. >From: "timothy richardson" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >Subject: [FG]: [FG] The answer is 42.... >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:53:03 PDT > > >It seems that there is a lot of interest in the fundamental structure of >reality and the universe, and the origins of that structure. Note all the >recent posts - time travel, universe as a collective effort, and cause and >effect. Personally, I believe that this will eventually lead us (or >someone) to a better understanding which will lead to practical >applications >of advanced technology. I guess this is something of an effort to explain >why I post philosophy on a technical site. Of course science is merely a >branch of philosophy, and I think this is why our meanderings are >grudgingly >tolerated by the less esoterically minded here. Any thoughts, Bill? > >At any rate, here is my take on entropy. (deep breath) >Entopy is the tendency (not law) for ordered systems to move from a higher >state of asymmetrical order to a lower state of symmetrical order. This >results in less overall available useable energy for the system. (How we >define order is important as well. For example, no one would deny that W. >Shakespeare created some highly ordered works, but you could not extract >usable energy from this order because it is perceptual order.) However, I >do believe the process is reversable. Simply because I believe in >infinity. > I mean by this, that I believe that "something" has always existed. > >Tim Richardson > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 12:25:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15479; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:23:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:23:31 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <28.6eb4b1d.2677e402@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:22:42 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"fWfSP1.0.hn3.peeHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Need help find old post on pulse in wire Hi all, I posted a letter many years ago on the behavior of current flow and current pulse in a simple 2 wire super conducting DC circuit that was "one light hour long" . There were drawing attached. Does anyone have a copy of this post titled "Thought Experiment"? I lost it when my hard drive went down. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 12:31:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19625; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:30:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:30:19 -0700 Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <39468BE8.770DADF4@centurytel.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:30:48 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book References: <394294DA.7692EAFE@csrlink.net> <3942A98E.80EB74B6@groupz.net> <004701bfd321$a5e20da0$0401a8c0@m> <002501bfd550$eff87240$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"myTUK2.0.Ro4.AleHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, I'll contribute; but I would much prefer seeing the book typed in ascii text so that it can be posted in html. The firgures can be scanned and posted as .jpg's. Jack Smith Sam Garza wrote: > > This is a good suggestion. Interesting book. Put me on the list for > sharing expenses for a copy. > Sam Garza > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sno > > To: > > Cc: Michael S. Johnston > > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 1:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book > > > > > > > Mike....call around to some printers in your area, a number > > > of them now have the ability to scan and put into digital > > > format......tell them how many pages and that you want > > > to put on internet.....let us know and those of us who are > > > interested will let you know and we can share expenses.... > > > steve > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 13:03:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30165; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:01:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:01:37 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <2b.6f36051.2677ecb8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:59:52 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_2b.6f36051.2677ecb8_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"PD6w6.0.9N7.WCfHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop --part1_2b.6f36051.2677ecb8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, What do you think will happen in the magnetic circuit attached as far as flux flow (pattern) when the moving bar is in contact with the remaining circuit and when it is moved far away? This could be what we are all looking for. 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<200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net><3944c218.137442361@mail.midiowa.net><003b01bfd40a$582f0060$655cadd1@default> <3944DA6E.9EA729C8@csrlink.net><00cf01bfd4df$090548c0$9f5cadd1@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:17:47 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"AcDKd1.0.nf5.cNgHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >I really don't know. I've never heard of a magnetic effect on diamagnetic > >substances. > > > ...Other than the fact they're repelled by magnetic fields, right? I thought that was paramagnetism. Hmmmm... We're talking about things like bismuth, right? What are some examples other than bismuth? I didn't think they included copper, silver, and beef. -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 14:48:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA00843; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:47:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:47:10 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bfd580$d3b2bde0$b5e728c3@Ardvark> From: "Ardvark" To: , , References: <2b.6f36051.2677ecb8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:46:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Pl0rm3.0.xC.UlgHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop Hmm, without meaning to brow beat you I believe your idea to have one serious flaw, i.e: there is no such thing as a magnetic circuit, all you have created is a horse shoe magnet. Attaching the moveable array of magnets and ferrite to one end would create a ring magnet, if you would like to save yourself some time and expense just get yourself an old speaker, rip the magnet off the back and hey presto, you have to all intents and purposes the same thing as in the attached gif, a magnet with a hole in the middle. What are you trying to achieve? I think I have a good idea what you are trying to get at, but you must look carefully at the field interactions. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:59 PM Subject: [FG]: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop > Hi all, > What do you think will happen in the magnetic circuit attached as far as flux > flow (pattern) when the moving bar is in contact with the remaining circuit > and when it is moved far away? This could be what we are all looking for. (I > will explain this when I get your opinions) > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 15:02:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06616; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:02:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:02:14 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:01:09 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <2b.6f36051.2677ecb8@aol.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"PA9wQ.0.3d1.azgHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch. Don't need an expert here, the flux will distribute to first order like a toroidal coil with two air gaps. The teaser is silly, just state why you think this is important. K. -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com [mailto:HLafonte@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 4:00 PM To: energy21@listbot.com; freenrg-l@eskimo.com; jlnlabs@egroups.com Subject: [FG]: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop Hi all, What do you think will happen in the magnetic circuit attached as far as flux flow (pattern) when the moving bar is in contact with the remaining circuit and when it is moved far away? This could be what we are all looking for. (I will explain this when I get your opinions) Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 16:03:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA25917; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:02:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:02:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20000613230129.12232.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:01:29 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Need help find old post on pulse in wire To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"HxfrF.0.pK6.lrhHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > I posted a letter many years ago on the behavior of > current flow and current > pulse in a simple 2 wire super conducting DC circuit > that was "one light hour > long" . There were drawing attached. Does anyone > have a copy of this post > titled "Thought Experiment"? I lost it when my hard > drive went down. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/m5967.html This may not take you there but it can be found at the archives. The drawing is not there. Here is Dave Damerons reply, He has helped me with misconceptions before; >If you close the circuits at the same time and after one second, open one >circuit of the bifilar wires in each illustration, you will get two very >different results. In A you will get a collapse of a magnetic field from a 2 >foot long wire. In B you will get a collapse of a magnetic field from a wire >372,000 miles long. The DC battery in each illustration used the same amount >of energy, but B produced the large magnetic field with it's ultra high >voltage during it's magnetic field collapse. I don't know exactly what to think of your problem yet. Yes, you will get 2 very different results. I don't think the 2 batteries would have supplied the same amount of energy, though. First you have a wire 2 light-seconds long and am supplying current for 1 second, so it would behave more like some sort of transmission line, not an "inductor". (An inductor would be such that V=L*di/dt.) Second even if it could, the superconducting time constant would be a constraint. I'm sure you would also get strange results when you started to charge a parallel plate capacitor if, as a thought experiment, the plates were 2 light seconds on a side, something like filling a reservoir? -Dave Sorry to hear about your file loss. Insidetheweb did the same thing to me,deleting some two or three pages of work I had posted at my messageboard. I had filed a lot of stuff there before purchasing my own computer. I did not think such a service could be so irresponsible, really peeves me since most of it was not recorded in duplicate. The archives are a good place to start if you are looking for past posts, but they do not contain drawing attachments. http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/index.html?by=AuthorList will take you to any authors submission. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 16:36:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA05309; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:33:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:33:54 -0700 Message-ID: <001401bfd590$23c0ad60$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <2b.6f36051.2677ecb8@aol.com> <000f01bfd580$d3b2bde0$b5e728c3@Ardvark> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:36:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Hagy32.0.oI1.XJiHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Leedskalin, the man that built coral castle who some believe had figured out Gravity because he moved 40 TON blocks without any heavy equipment in Homestead Florida, has an interesting experiment with magnets in that he said something about electricity in a magnetic loop which when you break open the loop whether immediately or years later will light a light. I don't remember all the details. Maybe someone else on the list will remember more. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ardvark To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 5:46 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop > Hmm, without meaning to brow beat you I believe your idea to have one > serious flaw, i.e: there is no such thing as a magnetic circuit, all you > have created is a horse shoe magnet. Attaching the moveable array of magnets > and ferrite to one end would create a ring magnet, if you would like to save > yourself some time and expense just get yourself an old speaker, rip the > magnet off the back and hey presto, you have to all intents and purposes the > same thing as in the attached gif, a magnet with a hole in the middle. What > are you trying to achieve? I think I have a good idea what you are trying to > get at, but you must look carefully at the field interactions. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:59 PM > Subject: [FG]: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop > > > > Hi all, > > What do you think will happen in the magnetic circuit attached as far as > flux > > flow (pattern) when the moving bar is in contact with the remaining > circuit > > and when it is moved far away? This could be what we are all looking for. > (I > > will explain this when I get your opinions) > > Thanks, > > Butch LaFonte > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 18:58:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01188; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:57:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:57:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:57:34 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FrBtj2.0.NI.GQkHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Faraday letters already printed? A lurker "LD" points out a Faraday source that needs checking: > I'd be willing to bet these can be "found" as Briticannica Great Books > volume 45. > Particularly since the University of Chicago did the series. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 13 21:42:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27442; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:42:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:42:00 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <7f.5a81a9d.267866ec@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:41:16 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Need "expert" opinions on magnetic loop To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"3Njmj3.0.ci6.OqmHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/13/00 1:08:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: > What do you think will happen in the magnetic circuit attached as far as flux > > flow (pattern) when the moving bar is in contact with the remaining circuit > and when it is moved far away? This could be what we are all looking for. (I > > will explain this when I get your opinions) > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > It seems to me that when the moving bar is far away you will have the fringing field of a horseshoe magnet. When the bar is in contact you will have something very similar to a closed toroidal magnet. In both cases there be external fields in the air space around the individual magnets, N to S, but they will be small. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 03:39:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA00348; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 03:36:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 03:36:45 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007101bfd57d$1c054940$695cadd1@default> References: <200006102015.QAA00522@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net><3944c218.137442361@mail.mid iowa.net><003b01bfd40a$582f0060$655cadd1@default> <3944DA6E.9EA729C8@csrlink.net><00cf01bfd4df$090548c0$9f5cadd1@default> <007101bfd57d$1c054940$695cadd1@default> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:36:33 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday Book Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"8b38v.0.L5.y0sHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 5:17 PM -0400 6/13/00, Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: >What are some examples other than bismuth? Pure water. Some forms of carbon. And of course frogs, like the one in the famous levitation photo. All diamagnetic substances - they move in a manner opposite to a magnetic material when exposed to a field. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 08:18:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18707; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:16:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:16:43 -0700 Message-ID: <3947A2A7.EB6DDFC@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:20:07 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Faraday letters already printed? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PHREN.0.8a4.R7wHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes, that's where I said they were. MJ William Beaty wrote: > A lurker "LD" points out a Faraday source that needs checking: > > > I'd be willing to bet these can be "found" as Briticannica Great Books > > volume 45. > > Particularly since the University of Chicago did the series. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 09:02:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA07248; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:01:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:01:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3947AD21.89C7AF6A@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:04:49 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: editor@britannica.com, "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ISmIS.0.5n1.TnwHv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The Great Books Dear Britannica Editor, I am in possession of a book that was published by Encyclopedia Britannica in 1952. It is volume number 45 of the "Great Books" series. My reason for writing to you is that this book has extensive writings of Michael Faraday in it. I am a member of several Free Energy discussion groups and everyone would like to be able to read this material. Is this series still in print? If so where can everyone purchase copies? If not is the copyright still in force from 1952? How can Mr. Faraday's own writings be copyrighted in the first place? The reason why I ask is that, if this material is out of print, I would like to scan this book and make it into a free website so people can read this material. Does Britannica have any problem with this? Thank you for your response. MJ (enki@csrlink.net) Link to them: http://www.britannica.com/ Note: Ok everybody, I emailed Britannica about copying the book. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 12:52:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11563; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:50:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:50:47 -0700 Message-ID: <20000614195011.95996.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.214] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:50:11 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"8c4ue1.0.Wq2.N8-Hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [FG]The Morton Effect Looking for information on or about the Morton Effect or similar effects beyond the Space Warp 1 webpage. Hoping for an idea of what that "model" might have been. How do you get a VDG to discharge through a glass tube instead of around it? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 17:56:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28106; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:54:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:54:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:54:05 -0400 Message-Id: <200006150054.UAA23963@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: The Great Books Resent-Message-ID: <"OkQMG2.0.3t6.va2Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael writes: >Link to them: http://www.britannica.com/ >Note: Ok everybody, I emailed Britannica about copying the book. Cool! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 21:03:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23993; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:00:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:00:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"y3FAA3.0.Xs5.9J5Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav-cap tin purity (fwd) see below ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 14 Jun 00 16:48:52 EDT From: Horace To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: BILL: Please read Dear Bill Please forward this crucial info to any persons working on the Grav. Cap. - Most Tin foils do not consist of 100% Tin - Often Lead (pb), Antimony (Sb) and Bizmuth (Bi) are mixed with Tin before rolling it into foil in order to make the Tin harder and more tensile thus less prone to breaking during the rolling process. This is counterintuitive since these additives are rather soft metals. Their addition significantly changes the mechanical, electrical, thermal and crystaline structure of the tin. - When purchasing Tin foil, please DO PAY ATTENTION attention what additives it contains. For example the foil used by "S" contains 2% of Antimony (Sb) and trace quantities of other elements. - 2% of SB, Pb and 1% od Bi are the most common 3 (mutualy exclusive today) additives mixed with Sn when making Tin foil. - In 1900s, when metal refining was not so perfect Pb additives often contained large traces of Bizmuth (Bi), and the unpure Tin (Sn) contained Antimony (Sb). - Ferromagnetic materials have an analogy in the electic world, where exists a class of materials that produces a larger electric field when stimulated by smaller stimulating field. These materials are waxy in appearance and it is possible that bee's wax also exhibits such electric properties. BILL: Since I fully agree with your motto of exactly duplicating the original specifications of an invention WITHOUT ego improvements, it would be an ommision not to pay attention to such SIGNIFICANT details as Tin foil additives and wax electrical properties. A little of Antimony in the Tin could be as significant as 900% foil thickness deviation. Please forward this to all that are working or talking about this device. Regards, Horace ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 22:21:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA16959; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:20:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:20:12 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <94.5bdd094.2679c166@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:19:34 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_94.5bdd094.2679c166_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"atjfZ3.0.q84.CU6Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: What I am trying to do with magnetic loop --part1_94.5bdd094.2679c166_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To the lists, If the magnets in this loop have an air gap between them and the ferrite on both of the magnets poles, do you think there is a point where the gap is of the size that when the end bar is REMOVED (it has no air gaps), that the magnetic fields of the permanent magnets will break away from the loop and go for the most part from it's own North to it's own South pole and bypass the greater part of the ferrite at each end? See web site for loop drawing, see attachment for illustration of the above. LaFonte Research Site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html --part1_94.5bdd094.2679c166_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="FLIPFLOP.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="FLIPFLOP.gif" R0lGODdhvwGXAfcAAAAAAAAA//8AAP97e/+cnP+9vf////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"KIj43.0.go5.Dn6Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What you're talking about is changing the amount of leakage flux in the circuit. Yes it will happen, but it's not such a binary thing. Again, why is this important to you? K. -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com [mailto:HLafonte@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 1:20 AM To: energy21@listbot.com; freenrg-l@eskimo.com; jlnlabs@egroups.com Subject: [FG]: What I am trying to do with magnetic loop To the lists, If the magnets in this loop have an air gap between them and the ferrite on both of the magnets poles, do you think there is a point where the gap is of the size that when the end bar is REMOVED (it has no air gaps), that the magnetic fields of the permanent magnets will break away from the loop and go for the most part from it's own North to it's own South pole and bypass the greater part of the ferrite at each end? See web site for loop drawing, see attachment for illustration of the above. LaFonte Research Site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 22:44:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25156; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:43:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:43:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:43:36 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YRHs81.0.u86.Cq6Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Clifford Luckiesh gave permission to make messages public. I don't want to scare him off with email overload, so for the moment I'll forward any messages to him. He's managed to "float" capacitors weighing several pounds, claims to have measured 22lbs thrust at one time, and is at the point of detecting forces between pairs of devices. He doesn't seem to understand the implications of capacitors that levitate! In the following message he's started calling them by the name "capacitor motor" or CM. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:43:37 -0700 From: clifford luckiesh To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: capacitor motor I have just finished part two of my project using two capacitor motors. Question: Does the positive end of two CMs repel? Here is where the CM adds more questions, assuming that like charges repel and opposites attract, the CM repels on the positive end right? Wrong!??? Using two CMs with the positive charged ends pointing to each other perpendicular to earth gravity axis, the CM attract each other. The CMs are suspended using 100LB test fishing line and both are using there own power supplies. There are no physical connections between nor common pathways for any power charge. Using a static charge meter, there is no measurable charge difference between each other. If positioned as where the negative charged side is pointing to the positive charged side of the 2nd CM there is a slight repelling and also a static charge difference between the CM. Now when the two CMs are pointing to sky and the same suspention with added spring weight scales, the CM behave diferently. The positive sides now repel just a bit and a charge differance takes place in about 10 to 12 seconds reaching several KV in less than 30 seconds. When the oposites charged side are facing each other, the same behavor take place. Placing the two CMs next to each other, the CM seem to have no affect regardless of the polarity. So far I see some kind of gravity effect and perhaps can be a means to measure gravity this way. Also these tests are using nickle plated mylar sheets with 9 poles. These are easy to make using a stencil and a paint brush on mylar. nickle plating can be applied to any plastic of metal using a plating kit. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 23:51:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA06943; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:50:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:50:35 -0700 Message-ID: <00e301bfd696$09bd42a0$0301a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:50:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"-I1eP3.0.Gi1.to7Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill, Any photo's or drawings of this design available? Regards, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 10:43 PM Subject: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public > > Clifford Luckiesh gave permission to make messages public. I don't want > to scare him off with email overload, so for the moment I'll forward any > messages to him. He's managed to "float" capacitors weighing several > pounds, claims to have measured 22lbs thrust at one time, and is at the > point of detecting forces between pairs of devices. He doesn't seem to > understand the implications of capacitors that levitate! In the following > message he's started calling them by the name "capacitor motor" or CM. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:43:37 -0700 > From: clifford luckiesh > To: billb@eskimo.com > Subject: capacitor motor > > I have just finished part two of my project using two capacitor motors. > Question: Does the positive end of two CMs repel? > Here is where the CM adds more questions, assuming that like charges repel > and > opposites attract, the CM repels on the positive end right? Wrong!??? > Using two CMs with the positive charged ends pointing to each other > perpendicular to earth gravity axis, the CM attract each other. The CMs are > suspended using 100LB test > fishing line and both are using there own power supplies. There are no > physical connections between nor common pathways for any power charge. Using > a static charge meter, there is no measurable charge difference between each > other. If positioned as where the negative charged side is pointing to the > positive charged side of the 2nd CM there is a slight repelling and also a > static charge difference between the CM. > Now when the two CMs are pointing to sky and the same suspention with added > spring weight scales, the CM behave diferently. The positive sides now repel > just a bit and a charge differance takes place in about 10 to 12 seconds > reaching several KV in less than 30 seconds. When the oposites charged side > are facing each other, the same behavor take place. Placing the two CMs next > to each other, the CM seem to have no affect regardless of the polarity. > So far I see some kind of gravity effect and perhaps can be a means to > measure gravity this way. Also these tests are using nickle plated mylar > sheets with 9 poles. These are > easy to make using a stencil and a paint brush on mylar. nickle plating can > be applied to any plastic of metal using a plating kit. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 14 23:54:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08257; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:53:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:53:57 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 02:53:53 -0400 Message-Id: <200006150653.CAA29929@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Need help find old post on pulse in wire Resent-Message-ID: <"plbr_3.0.w02.5s7Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Butch writes: >Hi all, >I posted a letter many years ago on the behavior of current flow and current >pulse in a simple 2 wire super conducting DC circuit that was "one light hour >long" . There were drawing attached. Does anyone have a copy of this post >titled "Thought Experiment"? I lost it when my hard drive went down. >Thanks, >Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, I think you can search the archives for keywords, and that would bring up the post that you made. If not, you can download the monthly archive files and search for that particular post on your machine. There should be a filename for the attachment, and if you give me that filename, there is a good chance that I have it. I've kept pretty much all the attachments. The URL for the archives can be found at the FreeNRG page on billb's site.: http://www.amasci.com Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 00:13:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA12691; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:12:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:12:54 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 07:12:56 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39498183.81471760@mail.midiowa.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA12656 Resent-Message-ID: <"RU3z82.0.663.s78Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:43:36 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote: (actually, forwarded) >These are >easy to make using a stencil and a paint brush on mylar. nickle plating can >be applied to any plastic of metal using a plating kit. GAAAHHHH!! Why didn't I think of that??? I have a bottle of "liquid" nickel that I paint onto plastic and other non-conductors to provide RF shielding. It's relatively low cost and could quickly make the plates for a "gravity capacitor." -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 03:30:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA10719; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 03:29:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 03:29:45 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:17:44 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap tin purity (fwd) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"1EaQG3.0.Od2.P0BIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill - At 9:00 PM -0700 6/14/00, William Beaty quoted Horace : >- Often Lead (pb), Antimony (Sb) and Bizmuth (Bi) are mixed with Tin before >rolling it into foil in order to make the Tin harder and more tensile thus >less prone to breaking during the rolling process. If this has anything to do with forces like those in the Wallace experiments, then bismuth might be a good additive to the foil. OTOH since I doubt there's any supplies of bismuth foil handy, thin sheets of brass could be used, as brass has some odd-nucleon alloys in it and worked, allegedly, for the Wallace experiments. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 03:32:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA12414; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 03:32:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 03:32:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:32:00 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap tin purity (fwd) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"okWBE.0.t13.h2BIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here's link to some (scant) bismuth/tin plating info in a discussion list: http://www.finishing.com/0400-0599/468.html Earlier I wrote: >If this has anything to do with forces like those in the Wallace >experiments, then bismuth might be a good additive to the foil. OTOH >since I doubt there's any supplies of bismuth foil handy, thin >sheets of brass could be used, as brass has some odd-nucleon alloys >in it and worked, allegedly, for the Wallace experiments. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 05:42:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13236; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 05:42:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 05:42:08 -0700 Message-ID: <20000615124127.26709.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.152] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:41:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"14-Sy1.0.fE3.VyCIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Congrats to Clifford. You know there are dozens of questions could be asked, here are my two: What kind of power supply & how are the plates connected to the power? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 05:55:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA17702; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 05:54:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 05:54:54 -0700 Message-ID: <20000615125422.27224.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.152] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" tests Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:54:22 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"oI17L1.0.RK4.T8DIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It appears from the description that Cliffords Caps are displaying repulsion and attraction one might expect if they truely have a gravitational effect. electricity, magnetism and gravity being forces 90 degrees opposed to each other. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 11:04:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05058; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20000615180139.32284.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.20] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: mass production! Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:01:39 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Hj8QE.0.oE1.veHIv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have just tested "gold foil stamping" like would be done in a printshop with my multimeter. With the multimeter set at Rx1 it will peg the meter. With the diecutting and foil stamping both done with the simplest of printshop equipment the process of building "Gravity Capacitors" could be accomplished with ease. The process of foil stamping involves using a heated plate to "stamp" metallic foil onto a substrate adhering it by way of a hot melt adhesive layer on the foil. The foil and adhesive are very thin. Will the layer of adhesive detract from or benefit the dielectric contact with the foil? By using this method, your plates could be stamped onto the Mylar dielectrics, the dielectrics diecut into rings with tabs, all identical just turn the tab toward the proper polarity. Stack'em, Pack'em, and Wire'em up to fly. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 11:12:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA27116; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:10:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:10:56 -0700 Message-ID: From: "McCurdy, Dennis" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:54:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"jV9x52.0.bd6.mmHIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Clifford Luckiesh suggests: >easy to make using a stencil and a paint brush on mylar. nickle plating can >be applied to any plastic of metal using a plating kit. Forgive my ignorance, but where does one obtain a "plating kit"? __________________________________________________ Dennis L. McCurdy (dennis.mccurdy@hboc.com) McKessonHBOC Advanced Laboratory Group From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 12:38:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19950; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:36:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:36:45 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PRQcL3.0.Vt4.J1JIv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav-cap "tab length" crucial? See below. ALso see http://www.amsci.com/caps/capwk2.txt for all of his correspondence to date. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:28:00 -0700 From: clifford luckiesh To: William Beaty Subject: RE: mail from last month Update: This capacitor does have one major and critical design problem that I have found to be a success or failure. The tabs lengths and the tabs connections. Using tin plates vers aluminuim plates do have an impact due to the thickness and using different dialetric material will also change thickness of a small group of 40 plates or so. Grouping may not be important but, if by chance the tabs are of equal in lengths and by connecting the tabs they are still equal in lengths, the device will NOT work. Tabs from power common source to plates are extremely critical. By "common source" I mean where the first tab and the external power source juction, here is the trick part. First tab has the shortest distance to the 9 pole plate (a 12 pole design works very well also), the second plate will have a longer connection to its plate etc.. Do NOT exceed tab lengths of 650Mils, this "capacitor" does generate a EHF frequency that we just found that we think is a harmonic of earth gravity wave. To maintain this lenght, groups of 30 or 60 plates or what ever your design allows will help this. I will be sending a drawing of this design later. The groups also have a length per common connection, if your design is working, you will have a close working model and can be "tuned" to have geater strength. We have a model that is only 4" in diameter and is working enough to pull 23grams of weight when charged. This little model will continue to pull even without external power for an hour or so. Question is, how does it work? We think it is this lately discoverd EHF frequency and perhaps the slightly detected scaler signature that it is producing. We are also looking into the surface area of the plates to see what impact this will have if this design is changed. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 12:54:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06120; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:52:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:52:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:52:22 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"m7Ov_2.0.SV1.uFJIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, McCurdy, Dennis wrote: > Clifford Luckiesh suggests: > >easy to make using a stencil and a paint brush on mylar. nickle plating can > >be applied to any plastic of metal using a plating kit. > > Forgive my ignorance, but where does one obtain a "plating kit"? I recall seing these in Edmund Scientific catalog a few years ago ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 14:15:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07295; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:15:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:15:04 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:14:42 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <394b45fd.4418894@mail.midiowa.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA07165 Resent-Message-ID: <"O6LQ03.0.nn1.OTKIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:52:22 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote: >On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, McCurdy, Dennis wrote: > >> Clifford Luckiesh suggests: >> >easy to make using a stencil and a paint brush on mylar. nickle plating can >> >be applied to any plastic of metal using a plating kit. >> >> Forgive my ignorance, but where does one obtain a "plating kit"? > > >I recall seing these in Edmund Scientific catalog a few years ago Oops. I thought I was replying to the list (instead of private email) when I answered the "where to get it" question. Anyway, what I bought is from GC Electronics (a maker of electronic-related chemicals and lot of other electronic supplies). It's a paint or laquer having a colloidal suspension of nickel -- the solvent evaporates leaving a conductive coating of nickel. It's used mainly for RF shielding of plastics (and wood). I bought mine at a local (in Des Moines) radio-electronics supply store. The product is called something like "Nickel-Coat" (my bottle is somewhere in one of my parts boxes) and comes in a 2-oz bottle with a brush attached to the cap. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 15 15:40:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10197; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:39:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:39:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:39:23 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public In-Reply-To: <394b45fd.4418894@mail.midiowa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_NdML.0.7V2.UiLIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, Dean T. Miller wrote: > Anyway, what I bought is from GC Electronics (a maker of > electronic-related chemicals and lot of other electronic supplies). > > It's a paint or laquer having a colloidal suspension of nickel -- the > solvent evaporates leaving a conductive coating of nickel. It's used > mainly for RF shielding of plastics (and wood). Yeah, "conductive paint." A company called "Chromerics" was selling nickel spray paint years ago and I had a sample. Expensive, but not as expensive as their SILVER conductive paint. Older computer users will have seen the nickel stuff. Its the dark grey coating inside the plastic cases of Apple II computers. For low current and high voltage, india ink is a good conductor. But if there are UHF waves bouncing around inside the grav-cap (generated by the nonlinear effects of corona from the sharp edges?), then maybe even the nickel-print paint won't be conductive enough. If Cliff L. finds that copper and aluminum don't work as well as tin, maybe conductivity plays a role. Maybe silver would work even worse, while brass or lead (or carbon "Aquadag") would work best. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 04:39:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA09456; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:39:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:39:22 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616113845.2720.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:38:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Gost Blaster Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"nRWoX.0.fJ2.f7XIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nickel spray paint will be better than the regular paint. The question is what metal can be used ???? Ok, let’s see, Fact1 = with tin we have good results. Fact2 = With aluminum we have less thrust (using same dielectric) fact1 and fact2 shows that the efect is at the metal. Now, lets see why the metal acts like gravity shealding. What can be in that thin surface of tin? What else, than atomic nuclei spinning at extremely high speeds. (That also explains the blue light ) Looking for the best metal that can exhibit such effect you will end up with Bismuth. I want to suggest an experiment that will change your mind building the grav. cap. (why? because you will have much better results with much less work. Do not forget that the inventor was going to make another experiment.... ) Take an appropriate shape such as a disk or a cylinder and plate that with successive bismuth and Magnesium layers. To do this, Start with an appropriate plastic or some such material form and cover it with gold foil (quite inexpensive) to create the necessary electrode surface. Then you just dunk it in the plating tank, hook up the electrodes (one is Bismuth to replace the Bi in solution that is plated, and the other is the object to be plated). (electro-plating method) The solution is Bismuth salt. The same should be done to plate the Mg layers. The magnesium layers are important and should not be replaced with dielectric. Trying to use a dielectric would also make the construction process more difficult. Note that a very important part of the construction process is the surface to be plated. It must be completely cleaned and should be rough or roughened prior to laying down the gold foil. Connect positive to gold and the ground to last Bismuth layer. Use high voltage, VDG etc. Note be careful (giga thrust ) Gost_2001 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 05:45:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA24647; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 05:45:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 05:45:36 -0700 Message-ID: <003b01bfd790$69f6aee0$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <20000616113845.2720.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:42:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"CtHDC3.0._06.l5YIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Gost Blaster and All 'Gost Blaster' - It would appear from your post that you have had some success with the method you described. What exactly do you mean by 'Giga Thrust', and what success did you achieve? What properties does magnesium have as the alternate to bismuth? I've noticed that a lot of 'fringe' designs seem to use alternate layers such as: * Faster than light experiments:- Alternate high and low refractive index * RQM:- Alternate layers of low and high permittivity * Grav Caps:- Alternate layers of various properties * Roswell:- material supposedly found was thin alternate layers of bismuth and something else (i think) * etc etc 'Gost Blaster' described that bismuth would be the best material for the cap plate, tin works and aluminium is poor. This would suggest that it is diamagnetic properties that are important for the cap plate (all 3 are diamagnetic to some extent). What would be the opposite material to bismuth's diamagnetic properties? Peter Fred has had success in achieving weight loss through heat transfer through a sphere, D'Aquino through RF power transfer to a skin, which (IMHO) is similar to Peter Fred's experiments. PS Anyone got any idea what the typical output of a 200mm globe 'plasma ball' psu is? Best regards David Callaghan ----- Original Message ----- From: Gost Blaster Connect positive to gold and the ground to last Bismuth layer. Use high voltage, VDG etc. Note be careful (giga thrust ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 05:49:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA26703; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 05:49:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 05:49:41 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616124908.50388.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.83.8] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap "tab length" crucial? Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:49:08 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"AL9KV3.0.8X6.b9YIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It appears the Cap has to be wired much like a cascade, each set of plates is further down the circuit than the preceding set of plates (see Fig. 4 of the "Gravity Emitting Capacitor"). Tabs that are "bunched" defeat the effect but tabs that are connected in sequence work. The Cap, depending on its construction parameters has an inherent, built-in resonance much like a Tesla Coil. This inherent resonance is apparently independent of any input frequency and may harmonize with some outside resonance. The inherent resonance can be modified by adding layers, changing the size and shape of the dielectrics and plates or changing the materials in the dielectrics and plates. The current Grav Cap model is small, plates made from 3" squares of aluminum, 60 layers ( |+|- ) But I've learned much from it. Thinking about trying graphite as a plate material. Any ideas? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 05:51:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA27572; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 05:51:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 05:51:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bfd791$e9837700$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000616113845.2720.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:53:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"kg58u1.0.ak6.NBYIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Bismuth-Magnesium Device Where do you get these materials and what kind of Power supply and where obtainable? Do you have a thrust to power ratio? ----- Original Message ----- From: Gost Blaster To: Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public > Nickel spray paint will be better than the regular > paint. > > The question is what metal can be used ???? > > Ok, let's see, > > Fact1 = with tin we have good results. > Fact2 = With aluminum we have less thrust (using same > dielectric) > > fact1 and fact2 shows that the efect is at the metal. > > Now, lets see why the metal acts like gravity > shealding. What can be in that thin surface of tin? > What else, than atomic nuclei spinning at extremely > high speeds. (That also explains the blue light ) > > Looking for the best metal that can exhibit such > effect you will end up with Bismuth. > > I want to suggest an experiment that will change your > mind building the grav. cap. (why? because you will > have much better results with much less work. Do not > forget that the inventor was going to make another > experiment.... ) > > > Take an appropriate shape such as a disk or a cylinder > and plate that with successive bismuth and Magnesium > layers. > To do this, Start with an appropriate plastic or some > such material form and cover it with gold foil (quite > inexpensive) to create the necessary electrode > surface. > Then you just dunk it in the plating tank, hook up the > electrodes (one is Bismuth to replace the Bi in > solution that is plated, and the other is the object > to be plated). (electro-plating method) > The solution is Bismuth salt. > The same should be done to plate the Mg layers. The > magnesium layers are important and should not be > replaced with dielectric. > Trying to use a dielectric would also make the > construction process more difficult. > Note that a very important part of the construction > process is the surface to be plated. It must be > completely cleaned and should be rough or roughened > prior to laying down the gold foil. > Connect positive to gold and the ground to last > Bismuth layer. Use high voltage, VDG etc. > Note be careful (giga thrust ) > > > Gost_2001 > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 06:11:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00425; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 06:08:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 06:08:34 -0700 Message-ID: <394A24CB.1CCC619B@harti.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:59:55 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3I1Zq1.0.T6.IRYIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:Methernitha machine, electrects manufacturing.. Here are a few patents I came across at the IBM patent server about electret manufacturing and electret power generators. Especially the last one is pretty interesting. http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US03890511__ http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=JP02219478A2 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=JP63028280A2 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=JP52054200A2 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05565717__ http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US04302633__ http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn10=US03967027 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US04944854__ What is claimed is: 1. A method for the manufacture of electrets which comprises passing a polymeric film or a warp beam of tightly packed synthetic yarn having a warp density as determined by light transmission of not more than 40% through a corona charging station a plurality of times while in a heated and tensioned condition, said corona charging station subjecting the film or yarn to corona discharge treatments generated between an upper grid member and a lower grid member. This is ia division of application Ser. No. 06/550,069 filed Nov. 8, 1983 now U.S. Pat. No. 4,623,438. This invention relates to a method for manufacturing electrets and the product produced thereby, and more specifically to a high speed continuous process for the manufacture of electrets from continuous film or continuous filament yarns. It is known that certain dielectric materials can be permanently electrostatically polarized. These materials are polarized by, (1) exciting the material by heating, (2) applying a high-voltage electric field, and (3) cooling the material while under the influence of the electric field. Upon removal of the electric field, appropriate dielectric materials will be found to have become the electrical analog of a permanent magnet. A dielectric becomes an electret when the rate of decay of the field-induced polarization can be slowed down so much that a significant fraction of the polarization is preserved long after the polarizing field has been removed. Early methods for the formation of fibrous electrets from thermoplastic films or filaments involved disposing the thread or filaments in an electrostatic field established between parallel closely spaced electrodes. This process, which is disclosed in U.S. Pat. No. 2,740,184, heats the thread or filamentary material to soften it and then cools the material in the presence of the electrostatic field whereupon charges are introduced into the fibers. The voltage employed in charging the material is 4000 volts or more of direct current. The filamentary material itself is a hollow filamentary material having a wax core such as carnauba wax, the resultant product being described as having a "more or less permanent charge". In order to produce that degree of permanence of charge in a non wax electret, such as for instance a polyolefin electret, it has been found that substantially higher voltages must be employed, that is to say direct current voltages in the range of 8000 volts or more. When such higher voltages are employed, the electret field will break down and arcing will occur in the free air space surrounding the single fiber or filamentary material employed according to the teachings of U.S. Pat. No. 2,740,184. Arcing produced from high voltages, that is to say voltages of 8000 volts direct current or higher, may be circumvented by covering the electrodes with a poorly conductive material so as to evenly distribute the applied voltage and dampen possible dielectric breakdown. For instance, U.S. Pat. No. 3,571,679 discloses a process for forming electrets by closely winding a monofilament fiber such as a polypropylene fiber on a hollow winding roller which has been previously surfaced with a polyamide faced aluminum foil. Subsequent to winding the layer of fibers, a second polyamide faced aluminum foil is wound about the yarn layer. The fiber and foil wound roll is then disposed between two electrodes where it is polarized for three hours at a temperature of about 120° C. with a voltage of 200 volts. This method, however, is discontinuous and extremely slow in that charging times of about three hours for the wrapped roll are required. As a result of such deficiencies, electrets are now currently commonly produced by either a spray spinning technique such as that set forth in U.S. Pat. No. 4,215,682 wherein an electric charge is introduced into melt blown fibers during the melt-blowing process, or alternatively, the electrets are prepared from a film which is homopolarly charged and subsequently fibrillated (see U.S. Pat. No. 3,998,916). It is readily apparent however, that neither spray spun materials nor fibrillated materials can achieve the fidelity of filament cross section which is inherent in continuous filament yarns. Moreover for certain applications, the unique cross sections which are readily available in continuous filament yarns provide vastly improved results such as for instance, in filtration applications. Alternatively, techniques have been set forth for imparting a permanent electrostatic charge to a preformed mat or web, examples of which are shown in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,308,223 and 4,375,718. In U.S. Pat. No. 4,308,223, a preformed mat is subjected to a strong electric field while the mat is maintained at a temperature above the glass transition temperature of the fibrous material of the mat. The mat is treated while positioned between two metallic base plates, one of which has a dielectric film thereon and the second of which having high density corona discharge points extending therefrom. Similarly, U.S. Pat. No. 4,375,718 treats a preformed web so as to produce a permanent dielectric charge. The web, which is made of nonconductive thermoplastic fibers, is contacted on each side with a more conductive web to form a combined web which is corona charged for extended periods of time at room temperatures. The treatment of webs however, is an inherently slow process and moreover, the web being treated must have sufficient density to trap the corona charge, thus inhibiting the preparation of lightweight woven or nonwoven constructions. It is therefore an object of this invention to provide a high speed, high voltage continuous process for the preparation of electrets from continuous films or filaments. It is another object of this invention to provide a high speed, multiple pass, high voltage continuous process for the preparation of electrets. It is still another object of this invention to provide continuous filament electrets having novel cross sections and enhanced air filtration properties. It is a further object of this invention to provide lightweight woven and non-woven webs containing continuous filament electrets. It is still another object of this invention to provide electret air filters having improved efficiency and durability. In accordance with this invention, it has now been discovered that it is possible to inject a permanent high level charge into continuous films or filaments at high production rates. The process employs a continuous film or continuous filaments in the form of a tightly packed warp having a high warp density as determined by light transmission of not more than 40%. Continuous film or continuous filament in the form of a tightly packed warp are fed one or more times through a corona charging station having electrodes disposed on both sides of the material being treated, the material being treated being simultaneously heated while being subjected to the corona discharge of from 6 KV to 20 KV direct current and preferably 10 KV to 20 KV direct current. Preferably, the material being treated is subjected to a plurality of corona discharge cycles. Temperature in the corona zone can be varied from ambient to 150° C. Draw in the corona zone can range from none to 3X (or higher), depending on the state of the fiber being treated. However, the more stable, longer-lived electrets are generally produced at the higher voltages (10 KV to 20 KV) and at elevated temperatures of about polymer glass transition temperatures. Some tensioning while in the corona discharge zone also enhances trapping. Combinations of these conditions result in stable charges of greater than 10-9 coulomb per gram. Preferably, the material being treated is a continuous filament yarn and most preferably a polypropylene continuous filament yarn having a high surface area cross section such as a trilobal or bar cross section, and most preferably, a trilobal cross section having pronounced concavities. The invention is also related to filters manufactured from the electrets of this invention. These filters differ from prior art electret filters in that they are lightweight filters which have improved filtering action due to improved uniformity, enhanced mechanical filtering action, and greater control over the electrical field surrounding the individual electrets. For purposes of this invention, a tightly packed warp having a warp density sufficient to result in light transmission of not more than 40% is determined by the following test: Yarn ends positioned as they are at the corona charging station are wrapped around glass slides, taped at the edges and then removed from one side by slicing with a razor blade. By using a photometric microscope 40× objective, 5- eyepiece, 20 light transmission readings are made across the warp. The average value of the 20 readings constitutes the percent light transmission value which has a direct correlation to warp density. While polypropylene yarn or film is preferred for purposes of this invention, it should be understood that other polymers may also be employed such as, halogenated polyesters, polyethylene, poly-3-methyl butene-1, poly-4-methyl pentene-1, as well as copolymers of propylene, 3-methyl butene-1, 4-methyl pentene-1, or ethylene with each other or with minor amounts of other olefins, e.g., copolymers of propylene and ethylene, copolymers of a major amount of 3-methyl butene-1 and a minor amount of a straight chain n-alkene such as n-octene-1, n-hexadecene-1, n-octadecene-1 or other relatively long chain alkenes, as well as copolymers of 3-methyl pentene-1 and any of the same n-alkenes mentioned previously in connection with 3-methyl butene-1. These polymers in fiber or film form should generally have a percent crystallinity of at least 20 percent, preferably at least 30 percent, and most preferably about 50 percent to 90 percent or higher. The polymer compound should not contain conductive additives that would reduce the resistivity and drain the charge. For instance, polypropylene with volume resistivity values of 1014 ohm cm or greater should be employed. Fiber cross section, size and shape are important parameters for enhanced electrostatic filtration because charge density is dependent on surface geometry. It increases with decreasing radius of curvature. Since the electric field is proportional to charge density, it will also reach higher values in the vicinity of smaller curvature radii. Consequently, electric field strength can be increased symmetrically for round fibers by decreasing the diameter. However, as there are finite limits on how small a fiber can be spun, it is more practical to assymetrically increase field strength by altering cross section shape. For example, a trilobal or bar cross section will have extremely high charge densities at the apexes due to their sharp radii. In these areas, strong electric fields are generated that are more effective in the electrostatic filtration of particulates. Additionally, for the same cross sectional area, the trilobal or bar cross section will have higher surface area than the round cross section fiber. This means that mechanical filtration will be improved as well. As previously noted, the electrets of this invention are especially suitable for use in lightweight filter fabrics and more specifically light weight needle punched filter fabrics having a total weight of less than 16 ounces per square yard. The lightweight needle punched fabrics of the instant invention are preferably prepared by needle punching electret trilobal or bar cross section continuous filament fibers into a scrim fabric such as a polyester scrim having a weight of 0.5 ounces per square yard. A wide variety of needle punch apparatus is suitable for purposes of this invention. Needle punch apparatus manufactured by Dilo Maschinen Fabrik, Eberbach, West Germany has been found to be especially suitable. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 06:17:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03279; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 06:17:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 06:17:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bfd795$7fc0bd60$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000616124908.50388.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap "tab length" crucial? Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:19:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"vinVz.0.8p.PZYIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Colin, Is your device producing thrust and what is the shapes of your plates and dielectrics and type of dielectric and thickness and are they in sets? Like you said they are aluminum squares do they have holes in the center and what are you using for a power supply? ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Cain To: Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap "tab length" crucial? > It appears the Cap has to be wired much like a cascade, each set of plates > is further down the circuit than the preceding set of plates (see Fig. 4 of > the "Gravity Emitting Capacitor"). Tabs that are "bunched" defeat the > effect but tabs that are connected in sequence work. The Cap, depending on > its construction parameters has an inherent, built-in resonance much like a > Tesla Coil. This inherent resonance is apparently independent of any input > frequency and may harmonize with some outside resonance. The inherent > resonance can be modified by adding layers, changing the size and shape of > the dielectrics and plates or changing the materials in the dielectrics and > plates. > > The current Grav Cap model is small, plates made from 3" squares of > aluminum, 60 layers ( |+|- ) But I've learned much from it. > > Thinking about trying graphite as a plate material. Any ideas? > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 07:02:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16707; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:02:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:02:14 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616140135.66213.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.83.8] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap "tab length" crucial? Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:01:35 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"1fmr.0.j44.ZDZIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Let's call it marginal, not enough to brag about. My dielectrics are 4 inch squares with 2 corners trimmed off, my plates are 3" aluminum squares with 1 corner trimmed off, no hole. I'm using a small VDG I've just finished (just to see if I could build one before building a "GOOD" one). I personally don't believe the Grav Cap is a Biefield-Brown effect, what I've seen in my small cap I believe is. 2 end plates of 3/4" ply, 4 1/4" bolts, 61 layers of Mylar, 60 layers of thin aluminum foil, sealed in tupperware against ion wind, all set on and Ohaus triple-beam zeroed. The Ohaus is quite sensitive (for this application) but I believe all the "lift" (very little, but I've not tried to measure it exactly yet) can be attributed to some sets of the plates developing a polarity (I don't believe polarity is necessary in a grav cap) and exhibiting a Biefield-Brown effect. The main thing that struck me is I was unable to get any effect at all from a "Multi-Plate" device until I attached the plates in series. I have had some success with "Biefield-Brown" type devices, one positive plate and one negative plate with mylar dielectric, much like that displayed by Jean-Louis Naudin on his pages but the multiple plate caps have been a frustrating learning experience. I won't claim this as "Gravity Cap positive results", just one more small step toward success. In other words I've not started building my spaceship just yet! lol ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 07:20:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22983; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:20:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:20:33 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616141957.5594.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:19:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Gost Blaster Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"3O4g62.0.pc5.mUZIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > What exactly do you mean by 'Giga > Thrust', and what success did you achieve? Giga-thrust means that is not for doing it indoor..! My first one is somewhere in space...!! > What properties does magnesium have as the alternate > to bismuth? Can you align the atoms the one next to the other without other atoms above them? Means, can you make a foil so thin to measure one atom thick? yes? then you have the best bismuth skin. Magnesium must have same thickness. That is the perfect "skin". Magnesium is best for its lightness and other physical properties.. > I've noticed that a lot of 'fringe' designs seem > to use alternate layers such as: > > * Faster than light experiments:- Alternate high > and low refractive index > * RQM:- Alternate layers of low and high > permittivity > * Grav Caps:- Alternate layers of various > properties > * Roswell:- material supposedly found was thin > alternate layers of bismuth and something else (i > think) > * etc etc > > 'Gost Blaster' described that bismuth would be the > best material for the cap plate, tin works and > aluminum is poor. This would suggest that it is > diamagnetic properties that are important for the > cap plate (all 3 are diamagnetic to some extent). > What would be the opposite material to bismuth's > diamagnetic properties? > good question. Look it should go like that... dielectric layer dielectric layer bismuth layer magnesium layer-------------- (+) or (-) dielectric layer dielectric layer bismuth layer magnesium layer-------------- (-) or (+) dielectric layer dielectric layer bismuth layer magnesium layer-------------- (+) or (-) dielectric layer dielectric layer bismuth layer magnesium layer-------------- (-) or (+) dielectric layer dielectric layer ........... and remember to make the foils extremely thin... then connect a car batery.. cya __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 07:32:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29283; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:31:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:31:40 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616143103.26583.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:31:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Gost Blaster Subject: Re: [FG]: Bismuth-Magnesium Device To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ZBSre1.0.S97.BfZIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Where do you get these materials I know plenty suppliers from Internet ask for samples and you will have plenty to work. I did the same > and what kind of > Power supply vdg will be the best. and where > obtainable? kit probably.. Do you have a thrust to power ratio? you don't need to worried about power ratio, thrust IS unwanted in such setup. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 08:18:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA12685; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:17:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:17:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:17:31 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AzGGN.0.z53.EKaIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Response from C. Luckiesh ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:28:49 -0700 From: clifford luckiesh To: William Beaty Subject: RE: Response from FREENRG-L I will get some photos of this CM soon, as for the dime test, can you say sparks? Placing metal object inside the hole will stop it from working and sparks will fly. Placing a plastic bic pen outside tube only (no ink or tip) will do nothing except a slight glowing around the letters of the bic pen's tube even though the letters were rubbed off. (corona photography) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 08:29:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA16500; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:28:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:28:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:28:28 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public In-Reply-To: <20000616113845.2720.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"k_Ui53.0.h14.dUaIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Gost Blaster wrote: > I want to suggest an experiment that will change your > mind building the grav. cap. (why? because you will > have much better results with much less work. Do not > forget that the inventor was going to make another > experiment.... ) Did you perform this experiment yourself? The "fringe" arena is jam packed with rumors, so nothing is trustworthy unless it comes from a first-hand source. If somebody told you about this result, or if you found it in an article or in mail-order plans then it might not be real. Only if you personally achieved this result is it important. Please, if you did not personally witness this result, we need to know. > Take an appropriate shape such as a disk or a cylinder > and plate that with successive bismuth and Magnesium > layers. But what shapes did YOU use? It is possible that the shape is important. "Disk or cylinder" is not so helpful, we want to know things like this (fake example) : I built this, and a disk of acrylic, 3.52 inches in diameter and .24 inches thick worked well. > Note that a very important part of the construction > process is the surface to be plated. It must be > completely cleaned and should be rough or roughened > prior to laying down the gold foil. What surface did YOU use? How did you roughen it? > Note be careful (giga thrust ) Are we talking about personal results here? How much did your device weigh? How much mass could it lift? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 08:33:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18904; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:33:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:33:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap "tab length" crucial? In-Reply-To: <20000616124908.50388.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"D3xpg.0.9d4.yYaIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > Thinking about trying graphite as a plate material. Any ideas? First we need some regular users to achieve some thrust effects. Once you can measure thrust, then you can try altering the plate material. If you don't have thrust, then you don't know if some hidden flaw is messing things up. For high-voltage, low-current effects, pencil-graphite coated paper or old-style carbon paper works as good as a metal. However, if high-freq resonance effects are important, then resistivity of the material might be critical, and high-ohms materials might not work. Also, the corona at the edges of a carbon plate will slowly burn the plate, so perhaps the plate should be thick. Might even create ball lightning! > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 08:37:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA21122; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:37:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:37:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public In-Reply-To: <20000616141957.5594.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hebLS2.0.x95.ccaIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Gost Blaster wrote: > Giga-thrust means that is not for doing it indoor..! > My first one is somewhere in space...!! Cool! I'd love to hear the details of what happened. > then connect a car batery.. At only 12 volts? amazing. How did you make bismuth and magnesium layers? Or did you find a mail-order source? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 09:02:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA29443; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:01:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:01:26 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616160042.2744.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:00:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Gost Blaster Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"5U0N4.0.tB7.LzaIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- William Beaty wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Gost Blaster wrote: > > > Giga-thrust means that is not for doing it > indoor..! > > My first one is somewhere in space...!! > > > Cool! I'd love to hear the details of what > happened. > > Of what happened?? what you mean?? I already decribed the construction details in past messages. > > then connect a car batery.. > > At only 12 volts? amazing. > if you want to loose it, use vdg.. Don't say that I didn't warn you. > How did you make bismuth and magnesium layers? Or > did you find a > mail-order source? I already said how to make the electroplating. Keep in mind that Bismuth foil is not commercialy available anywhere. You have to follow the method I describe. It's much easier. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 09:44:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10580; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:44:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:44:17 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616164336.3225.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:43:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Gost Blaster Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"77Gbj2.0.Cb2.WbbIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Did you perform this experiment yourself? The > "fringe" arena is jam > packed with rumors, so nothing is trustworthy unless > it comes from a > first-hand source. If somebody told you about this > result, or if you > found it in an article or in mail-order plans then > it might not be real. > Only if you personally achieved this result is it > important. Please, if > you did not personally witness this result, we need > to know. > All you need to know is already in my first message. My infos are classified. > > Take an appropriate shape such as a disk or a > cylinder > > and plate that with successive bismuth and > Magnesium > > layers. > > But what shapes did YOU use? It is possible that > the shape is important. > "Disk or cylinder" is not so helpful, we want to > know things like this > (fake example) : > Yes the shape is important. I never said the opposite!! I can make you any shape flying, with that process... Is up to you to make a flying ashtray? flying pencil?, aircraft propulsion engine? > I built this, and a disk of acrylic, 3.52 inches > in diameter and .24 > inches thick worked well. > > > > Note that a very important part of the > construction > > process is the surface to be plated. It must be > > completely cleaned and should be rough or > roughened > > prior to laying down the gold foil. > > What surface did YOU use? How did you roughen it? > I have tried lots of different shapes and objects very thin adhesive paper will work fine. > > > Note be careful (giga thrust ) > > Are we talking about personal results here? How > much did your device > weigh? How much mass could it lift? > Yes everything I say is personal results. Try that plating process, use any shape and you'll see.. Or try the capacitor first. Message for "C": Well done.!! That's only the beginning. I am telling you, try Bismuth later on. To SEUS agents:: Is too late, You lost :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 10:20:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11642; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701bfd79b$19da41a0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:56:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"VMVmf2.0.fr2.n5cIv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Gravity devices Standardized Specs Can we develop a specifications list? So that when we get results we give the pertinent information in a standardized format. I will give an initial stab and we can add or subtract from it. 1. Thrust in pounds 2. Weight of Device 3. Costs where known for parts 4. Power Supply Type: 5. Plate Material: 6. Dielectric or Alternate Material(as in the Bismuth-Magnesium device): 7. Plate Shape: 8. Plate thickness: 9. Dielectric or Alternate Material Shape: 10. Dielectric or Alternate material thickness: 11. Dimensions: Pertinent information such as: 12. Assembly info (like cascade vs. grouping of tabs or alignment of notches, etc.) 13. Sources for materials: 14. Previous trials of different shapes or materials or power supply types, etc. 15. Drawings as soon as possible after group list notification if requested especially of anything that is not easily explained like circles and squares are obvious but the tabs with notches were not understandable with out a drawing. 16. Warnings for things to avoid or watch out for. Well that's all I can think of for now. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 10:25:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11614; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007f01bfd7ae$9c9bc9c0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000616143103.26583.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Bismuth-Magnesium Device Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:19:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"hfMgs3.0.9r2.i5cIv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have questions in the body of text below ----- Original Message ----- From: Gost Blaster To: Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Bismuth-Magnesium Device > > Where do you get these materials > > I know plenty suppliers from Internet ask for samples > and you will have plenty to work. I did the same > Samples of what metal powder? liquid solution? How do you plate these materials on to the shape? Electrically or by the electroless method and how long a time for the right thickness for the bismuth and how long for the magnesium and what are you using for the dielectric and is it plated and how thick? > > Do you have a thrust to power ratio? > I mean like x pounds of thrust for x KVolts DC and y pounds of thrust at y KVolts DC > you don't need to worried about power ratio, thrust > IS unwanted in such setup. > Why do you say thrust is unwanted or are you talking about it produced too much thrust? Are you or have you made any more since you lost the one? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 10:39:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30239; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:38:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:38:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:35:05 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20000616113845.2720.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"uhf6w3.0.JO7.mOcIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh Really? So tell me, uhmm, "gost" is it? How is it that you electroplated the magnesium? Please tell us in detail how it was that this was done. You just dunked it in a plating bath and off you went, eh? I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged device. Just tell us how this one thing was accomplished. K. -----Original Message----- From: Gost Blaster [mailto:gost_2001@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:39 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Nickel spray paint will be better than the regular paint. The question is what metal can be used ???? Ok, lets see, Fact1 = with tin we have good results. Fact2 = With aluminum we have less thrust (using same dielectric) fact1 and fact2 shows that the efect is at the metal. Now, lets see why the metal acts like gravity shealding. What can be in that thin surface of tin? What else, than atomic nuclei spinning at extremely high speeds. (That also explains the blue light ) Looking for the best metal that can exhibit such effect you will end up with Bismuth. I want to suggest an experiment that will change your mind building the grav. cap. (why? because you will have much better results with much less work. Do not forget that the inventor was going to make another experiment.... ) Take an appropriate shape such as a disk or a cylinder and plate that with successive bismuth and Magnesium layers. To do this, Start with an appropriate plastic or some such material form and cover it with gold foil (quite inexpensive) to create the necessary electrode surface. Then you just dunk it in the plating tank, hook up the electrodes (one is Bismuth to replace the Bi in solution that is plated, and the other is the object to be plated). (electro-plating method) The solution is Bismuth salt. The same should be done to plate the Mg layers. The magnesium layers are important and should not be replaced with dielectric. Trying to use a dielectric would also make the construction process more difficult. Note that a very important part of the construction process is the surface to be plated. It must be completely cleaned and should be rough or roughened prior to laying down the gold foil. Connect positive to gold and the ground to last Bismuth layer. Use high voltage, VDG etc. Note be careful (giga thrust ) Gost_2001 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 11:22:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09904; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:21:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:21:30 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616182059.52825.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.163] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity devices Standardized Specs Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:20:58 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"5nNZd.0.fQ2.f0dIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The only suggestion I might make is "Thrust in grams/kilograms". At the moment I very excited with grams and fractions of grams. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 11:30:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA14553; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:30:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:30:20 -0700 Message-ID: <394A7159.8AA83CA9@harti.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:26:33 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity devices Standardized Specs References: <20000616182059.52825.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mFPWw.0.DZ3.x8dIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How many people are getting thrust from these gravity capacitors ?? Can you please post a few pictures please... otherwise it sounds too good to be true. I want to see a cap hanging in the air by its own thrust. Thanks ! Best regards, Stefan. Colin Cain schrieb: > > The only suggestion I might make is "Thrust in grams/kilograms". At the > moment I very excited with grams and fractions of grams. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 11:38:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18580; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:37:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:37:53 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616183708.7399.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.163] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:37:08 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"SbvO8.0.hX4.vFdIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keith writes: >From: "Keith Nagel" >Reply-To: "Sparky" >To: >Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public >Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:35:05 -0400 > >Oh Really? > >So tell me, uhmm, "gost" is it? How is it that you >electroplated the magnesium? Please tell us in detail >how it was that this was done. You just dunked it >in a plating bath and off you went, eh? > >I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep >whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged >device. Just tell us how this one thing was accomplished. > >K. > Sounds like someone thinks their being jerked, Keith does too. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 12:25:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01636; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:24:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:24:32 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:24:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Mathias Bage X-Sender: mathias@kel.brace.dom To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public In-Reply-To: <20000616183708.7399.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Wt3VF2.0.TP.lxdIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > > Keith writes: > > >From: "Keith Nagel" > >Reply-To: "Sparky" > >To: > >Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public > >Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:35:05 -0400 > > > >Oh Really? > > > >So tell me, uhmm, "gost" is it? How is it that you > >electroplated the magnesium? Please tell us in detail > >how it was that this was done. You just dunked it > >in a plating bath and off you went, eh? > > > >I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep > >whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged > >device. Just tell us how this one thing was accomplished. > > > >K. > > Go to http://science.zerion.com/ and make you own conclusions. /Mathias From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 12:33:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07298; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20000616193156.76867.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.163] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:31:56 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"k9ukJ.0.xn1.I3eIv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Been there, Done that. >From: Mathias Bage >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public >Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:24:14 +0000 (GMT) > > > >On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > > > > > Keith writes: > > > > >From: "Keith Nagel" > > >Reply-To: "Sparky" > > >To: > > >Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public > > >Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:35:05 -0400 > > > > > >Oh Really? > > > > > >So tell me, uhmm, "gost" is it? How is it that you > > >electroplated the magnesium? Please tell us in detail > > >how it was that this was done. You just dunked it > > >in a plating bath and off you went, eh? > > > > > >I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep > > >whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged > > >device. Just tell us how this one thing was accomplished. > > > > > >K. > > > > >Go to > > http://science.zerion.com/ > >and make you own conclusions. > >/Mathias > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 13:10:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA21385; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:10:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:10:11 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:09:02 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"U1gIs.0.SD5.VceIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh, so you think that "gost" is in actuality Joshua Gulick? That is most interesting. Can you verify this on the site, or do you conclude this from post of the equally shy "lguliug glgfguy" who posted the link to Gulicks site last sunday? Both are webmail accounts, neither has posted before. The file in question is a bogus description of an antigravity device, written as if the work had already been done. The site itself is filled with inane descriptions of unworkable devices, with the usual attribution to the god of all creation (you'd think with "creating the universe in seven days" on your resume you could come up with more reasonable ideas for new tech...) Am I being cranky? Perhaps, but the amount of crap being floated on this list is reaching critical levels. Lets review... We have a few people, none of whom have openly posted on the list, claiming reproduction of the flying capacitor thingy on Bill's site. We have a couple folks, who have posted their addresses and proof of contruction, who report no results. Most of the impetus for this current interest is the alleged positive results of Clifford Luckiesh, who from Bills post is emailable at clifford luckiesh By the way, I don't know if Bill intended to release this address, but there it was in the header of his post so I'm pointing it out in capital letters. My public apologies to Bill if he did not intend this and I seem to be pushing it. But looking at the substantial amount of work done by this guy http://www.imagineanything.com/energy/index.htm it makes me feel the time has come for a little due dilligence. Numerous contradictory statements can be found in the email exchange between Bill and C, for example try and figure out how he's powering the device. He tells Bill something different in just about every post. DC, AC, High voltage, low voltage? I suppose the next step is to write him directly, but could you really think of a reasonable question to ask? I'm still thinking... Oh yes, and lets not forget the previous "mystery" poster, who was consumed by the MIB's (or agents of SEUS?) right on april 1st???????? K. -----Original Message----- From: Mathias Bage [mailto:mathias@Stacken.kth.se] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 3:24 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > > Keith writes: > > >From: "Keith Nagel" > >Reply-To: "Sparky" > >To: > >Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public > >Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:35:05 -0400 > > > >Oh Really? > > > >So tell me, uhmm, "gost" is it? How is it that you > >electroplated the magnesium? Please tell us in detail > >how it was that this was done. You just dunked it > >in a plating bath and off you went, eh? > > > >I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep > >whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged > >device. Just tell us how this one thing was accomplished. > > > >K. > > Go to http://science.zerion.com/ and make you own conclusions. /Mathias From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 14:16:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA24023; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:15:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: "Keith Nagel" , Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:15:36 +400 Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <394a98f8.336b.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.35 Resent-Message-ID: <"v1xAT2.0.Gt5.5afIv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Does anyone have a true tally of what the results are, including who did what and whether or not they were successful? Also, has anybody been following the JLN labs list? A number of people there have failed to get positive results, as well. I don't know if any of them were successful. There is currently an egroups list devoted entirely to the "electric rocket". (see below) If traffic is too much here, perhaps people should consider moving it to that list. **************************************************** electricrocket@egroups.com. eGroups also makes it easy to store photos and files, coordinate events, and more. Here's a description of the group: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dedicated to discussion of experiments involving the Electric Rocket also known as the Capacitor Array Gravity Warp Drive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here's my introductory message for you: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ As per our earlier emails, I've created an Electric Rocket mailing list at egroups. Enjoy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ TO START SENDING messages to members of this group, simply send email to electricrocket@egroups.com If you do not wish to belong to the electricrocket group, you can unsubscribe by replying to this message, or by sending an email to electricrocket-unsubscribe@egroups.com Regards, Moderator, electricrocket SPECIAL NOTE FROM eGroups: Because eGroups values your privacy, it is a violation of our service rules for moderators to add subscribers to a group against their wishes. If you feel this has happened, please notify us at abuse@egroups.com P.S. If you would like to learn more about the electricrocket group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/electricrocket From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 14:18:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06987; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:18:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:18:07 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616211733.60790.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.163] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:17:33 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"4nDke3.0.4j1.FcfIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I think you hit it dead on! Joshua was/is very heavy into this Bismuth/Magnesium layered Antigravity thing. The alignment of atoms also sounds like him. He also adamantly defended many obviously unworkable ideas even in the face of proof. Tony Colacchio of imagineanything.com appears to be leaving the Gravity Capacitor arena and going back to more "Classical Biefield-Brown" style caps. Up to this point I can't say I blame him. The lure of "pounds of thrust" is very intoxicating though anyone is yet to "prove" it. J.G. your busted. SEUS is that as in Doctor SEUS ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 15:20:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25672; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:19:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:19:49 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000616160042.2744.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000616160042.2744.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:19:23 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"DCacz2.0._G6.5WgIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gost - How do you make the bismuth salt solution? Just start electrolysing bismuth in a salt water electrolyte? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 15:41:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA31734; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:41:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:41:10 -0700 Message-ID: <394AA645.CA1CBB2@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:12:21 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7E0111BA1619D77DFF46A91C" Resent-Message-ID: <"-JyEA.0.al7.5qgIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE: Faraday Book MJ Visits the Library of Congress --------------7E0111BA1619D77DFF46A91C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All, I went to the library of congress website and searched for "Great Books of the Western World". I found the one I have. It was indeed published as I said, in a limited edition of 500 copies, signed by the Editor (supposedly). It was re published in 1985 by the Franklin Library in Franklin, PA. Again as a Limited edition. Below is the information on that second printing, direct from the Library of congress....... MJ P.S.: Stay tuned, I found something REALLY INTERESTING IN THIS SEARCH!!!!!! YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYES! Faraday wrote several books on science. He also wrote another one which I HAVE TO GET AT ANY PRICE!!!! DIDI you will LOVE this one. See Below.... Database Name: Library of Congress Online Catalog YOU SEARCHED: Title = Great Books of the Western World SEARCH RESULTS: Displaying 31 of 88 records Great books of the Western World. Encyclopedia Britannica, inc., in... LC Control Number: 52002133 Type of Material: Book (Print, Microfilm, Electronic, etc.) Main Title: Great books of the Western World. Encyclopedia Britannica, inc., in collaboration with the University of Chicago. [Robert Maynard Hutchins, editor in chief. Edition Information: Founders' ed. Published/Created: Chicago] W. Benton [1952] Related Names: Hutchins, Robert Maynard, 1899- ed. Encyclopaedia Britannica. University of Chicago. Description: 54 v. illus., maps. 25 cm. Contents: 1. The great conversation, by R. M. Hutchins.--2-3. The great ideas.--4. The Iliad of Homer. The Odyssey.--5. Aeschylus. Sophocles. Euripides. Aristophanes.--6. Herodotus. Thucydides.--7. Plato.--8-9. Aristotle.--10. Hippocrates. Galen.--11. Euclid. Archimedes. Appollonius of Perga. Nicomachus.--12. Lucretius. Epictetus. Marcus Aurelius.--13. Virgil.--14. Plutarch.--15. Tacitus.--16. Ptolemy. Copernicus. Kepler.--17. Plotinus.--18. Augustine.--19.-20. Thomas Aquinas.--21. Dante.--22. Chaucer.--23. Machiavelli. Hobbes.--24. Rabelais.--25. Montaigne.--26-27. Shakespeare.--28. Gilbert. Galileo. Harvey.--29. Cervantes.--30. Francis Bacon.--31. Descartes. Spinoza.--32. John Milton.--33. Pascal.--34. Newton. Huygens.--35. Locke. Berkeley. Hume.--36. Swift. Sterne.--37. Henry Fielding.--38. Montesquieu. Rousseau.--39. Adam Smith.--40-41. Gibbon.--42. Kant.--43. American state papers. The Federalist. J. S. Mill.--44. Boswell.--45. Lavoisier. Fourier. Faraday.--46. Hegel.--47. Goethe.--48. Melville.--49. Darwin.--50. Marx.--51. Tolstoy.--52. Dostoevsky.--53. William James.--54. Freud. Notes: General t.p. in vol. 1 only: each vol. has special t.p. "Limited to 500 numbered copies signed by the editor." L.C. copy neither numbered nor signed. Includes bibliographies. Subjects: Literature--Collections. Literature--Indexes. LC Classification: AC1 .G7 Dewey Class No.: 082 CALL NUMBER: AC1 .G7 Copy 1 -- Request in: Jefferson or Adams Bldg General or Area Studies Reading Rms -- Status: Not Charged CALL NUMBER: AC1 .G7 Alc Copy 1 -- Request in: Reference - Main Reading Room (Jefferson, LJ100) -- Status: Not Charged Output for Record(s) on This Screen: Which Format? Print or Save Records Plain Text--ASCII MARC (save only) Email Address: Database · New Search · Headings List ·Titles List ·Help (Contents) · Account Status · Help (This Screen) --------------7E0111BA1619D77DFF46A91C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All,
   I went to the library of congress website and searched for "Great Books of the Western World".
I found the one I have. It was indeed published as I said, in a limited edition of 500 copies, signed by the Editor (supposedly). It was re published in 1985 by the Franklin Library in Franklin, PA. Again as a Limited edition. Below is the information on that second printing, direct from the Library of congress.......
MJ
P.S.: Stay tuned, I found something REALLY INTERESTING IN THIS SEARCH!!!!!! YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYES! Faraday wrote several books on science. He also wrote another one which I HAVE TO GET AT ANY PRICE!!!! DIDI you will LOVE this one.

 See Below....
 
 

 Database Name: Library of Congress Online Catalog
 YOU SEARCHED: Title = Great Books of the Western World
 SEARCH RESULTS: Displaying 31 of 88 records

 
       Great books of the Western World. Encyclopedia Britannica, inc., in...

 LC Control Number:
               52002133
   Type of Material:
               Book (Print, Microfilm, Electronic, etc.)
       Main Title:
               Great books of the Western World. Encyclopedia Britannica, inc., in
               collaboration with the University of Chicago. [Robert Maynard Hutchins,
               editor in chief.
 Edition Information:
               Founders' ed.
  Published/Created:
               Chicago] W. Benton [1952]
    Related Names:
               Hutchins, Robert Maynard, 1899- ed.
               Encyclopaedia Britannica.
               University of Chicago.
       Description:
               54 v. illus., maps. 25 cm.
        Contents:
               1. The great conversation, by R. M. Hutchins.--2-3. The great ideas.--4.
               The Iliad of Homer. The Odyssey.--5. Aeschylus. Sophocles. Euripides.
               Aristophanes.--6. Herodotus. Thucydides.--7. Plato.--8-9. Aristotle.--10.
               Hippocrates. Galen.--11. Euclid. Archimedes. Appollonius of Perga.
               Nicomachus.--12. Lucretius. Epictetus. Marcus Aurelius.--13. Virgil.--14.
               Plutarch.--15. Tacitus.--16. Ptolemy. Copernicus. Kepler.--17.
               Plotinus.--18. Augustine.--19.-20. Thomas Aquinas.--21. Dante.--22.
               Chaucer.--23. Machiavelli. Hobbes.--24. Rabelais.--25.
               Montaigne.--26-27. Shakespeare.--28. Gilbert. Galileo. Harvey.--29.
               Cervantes.--30. Francis Bacon.--31. Descartes. Spinoza.--32. John
               Milton.--33. Pascal.--34. Newton. Huygens.--35. Locke. Berkeley.
               Hume.--36. Swift. Sterne.--37. Henry Fielding.--38. Montesquieu.
               Rousseau.--39. Adam Smith.--40-41. Gibbon.--42. Kant.--43. American
               state papers. The Federalist. J. S. Mill.--44. Boswell.--45. Lavoisier.
               Fourier. Faraday.--46. Hegel.--47. Goethe.--48. Melville.--49.
               Darwin.--50. Marx.--51. Tolstoy.--52. Dostoevsky.--53. William
               James.--54. Freud.
          Notes:
               General t.p. in vol. 1 only: each vol. has special t.p.
               "Limited to 500 numbered copies signed by the editor." L.C. copy neither
               numbered nor signed.
               Includes bibliographies.
         Subjects:
               Literature--Collections.
               Literature--Indexes.
   LC Classification:
               AC1 .G7
   Dewey Class No.:
               082
 

  CALL NUMBER:
               AC1 .G7
               Copy 1
      -- Request in:
               Jefferson or Adams Bldg General or Area Studies Reading Rms
         -- Status:
               Not Charged

  CALL NUMBER:
               AC1 .G7 Alc
               Copy 1
      -- Request in:
               Reference - Main Reading Room (Jefferson, LJ100)
         -- Status:
               Not Charged
 

 

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                                Print or Save Records
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  --------------7E0111BA1619D77DFF46A91C-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 15:52:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04275; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:52:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:52:09 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 22:51:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Mathias Bage X-Sender: mathias@kel.brace.dom Reply-To: Mathias Bage To: Keith Nagel cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fsH393.0.i21.O-gIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Keith Nagel wrote: > Oh, so you think that "gost" is in actuality > Joshua Gulick? That is most interesting. Can > you verify this on the site, or do you conclude > this from post of the equally shy "lguliug glgfguy" > who posted the link to Gulicks site last sunday? > Both are webmail accounts, neither has posted before. Well, not that I find the tone on Joshua Gulick's web site similar to "gost"'s, but hey both describe strikingly similar things: 1. Joshua has a device that punched a hole through his cieling&roof, "gost" has something else that now is lost in space. "gost" writes (resent-message-id: <"3O4g62.0.pc5.mUZIv"@mx1>): > Giga-thrust means that is not for doing it indoor..! > My first one is somewhere in space...!! and from this, I made the wild assumption that "gost"'s device also punched a hole through the ceiling&roof :-) 2. they both talk about thin layers of bismuth and magnesium, albeit the topologies differs somewhat. [lots snipped away] /Mathias From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 16:33:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16658; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:32:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:32:50 -0700 Message-ID: <20000616233201.23261.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:32:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Gost Blaster Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ydn592.0.544.XahIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Rick Monteverde wrote: > Gost - > > How do you make the bismuth salt solution? Just > start electrolysing > bismuth in a salt water electrolyte? > Electroplating method Isn't very familiar. Electrolytic industrial processes for metals include the production of metals themselves from their compounds, which is called the electrowinning of metals; the electrolytic purification of metals; and the deposition or electroplating of metals on conducting surfaces. In all three types of electrolytic process, the reactions are reduction of ions of the metal in solution in some carefully selected electrolyte. The electrowinning of metals, or the production of metals from their compounds, is the oldest industrial electrolytic process. Sodium metal was first prepared in 1807 by the English chemist Humphrey Davy, who obtained it using electrolysis of molten sodium hydroxide. Several industrially important metals (the active metals which react with water) are produced commercially today by electrolysis of molten SALTS. Electrowinning of Magnesium is also a major industrial process, and is the most commonly used industrial process for magnesium production although other methods such as chemical reduction of magnesium compounds at high temperatures with carbon, calcium carbide, or ferrosilicon have been used. The raw material for magnesium production is well brines or more commonly seawater, which is about 0.13% magnesium by mass. The Mg2+ ion is precipitated from seawater by addition of CaO (lime), produced by calcining (strong heating) of CaCO3 (limestone or oyster shells). The insoluble Mg(OH)2 is removed by filtration. Acidification of a slurry of this solid and an aqueous MgCl2 solution with HCl converts the Mg(OH)2 to soluble MgCl2, which is recovered as solid MgCl2 by evaporation. This is dried to the hydrate MgCl2.1.5H2O, which is used as the feedstock to an electrolytic cell. The cell electrolyte is a molten mixture containing about 25% MgCl2 - 15% CaCl2 - 60% NaCl, and the cell is operated between 700oC and 750oC. The cell electrolytic reaction is MgCl2 --> Mg(l) + Cl2(g). The magnesium produced is about 99.9% pure as it comes from the cell, since neither sodium nor calcium is reducible more easily than is magnesium. The chlorine produced in the cell is converted to HCl for use in the acidification process by reaction with natural gas and steam or in a hydrogen/chlorine burner. Both salts Bi/Mg are available from manufacturers. You can get an appropriate electroplating kit, that includes power supply, electrodes, etc. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 17:37:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00311; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:36:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:36:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:36:11 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"efHbq2.0.m4.FWiIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keith wrote: >So tell me, uhmm, "gost" is it? How is it that you >electroplated the magnesium? Oops, that got past me. I didn't realize he claims he had "plated magnesium" too! That alone would be worth the price of admission, whatever that is. I have a feeling the agents of Seus were not too late after all. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 17:43:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02412; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:42:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:42:41 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000616233201.23261.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000616233201.23261.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:42:17 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"y8f7-1.0.ab.0ciIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gost - At 4:32 PM -0700 6/16/00, Gost Blaster wrote: >Both salts Bi/Mg are available from manufacturers. >You can get an appropriate electroplating kit, that >includes power supply, electrodes, etc. Well, I've got some sort of bismuth compound as tablets in my medicine cabinet. Think some of those would work? I don't think magnesium can be plated though. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 18:14:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11288; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:14:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:14:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:14:31 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <20000616164336.3225.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"a7B9z2.0.Am2.-3jIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: gost blaster secrecy On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Gost Blaster wrote: > billb wrote: > > Only if you personally achieved this result is it > > important. Please, if > > you did not personally witness this result, we need > > to know. > > > All you need to know is already in my first message. > My infos are classified. Which infos? Something is secret? Why? > Message for "C": Well done.!! That's only the > beginning. I am telling you, try Bismuth later on. I'll pass that on to Cliff "C" Luckiesh. Or tell him yourself. > To SEUS agents:: Is too late, You lost :) Not yet. I suspect that most FREENRG-L people do not believe you. That's the trouble with secrecy: it keeps you safe, but secrecy is DISHONEST: it is "dishonesty through omission", and also anonymous people can lie without suffering any consequences. Liars like to remain anonymous, so if you keep yourself hidden, we will suspect that perhaps you are a liar. To win our trust, you have to let us know all about you. There's no other way. But if you reveal your name, address, etc., is this dangerous? If so, then "SEUS agents" have not yet lost, because they've scared you into remaining anonymous, and that makes us distrust you. If you want to blow this "capacitor" thing wide open, then just let everyone know your name and address, give out your phone number so other FREENRG-L users can talk to you realtime, and send us pictures of your flying capacitors and power supplies and electroplating tank. That's what I would do if I were you. Send fear and secrecy to hell, and change the world right now. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 19:09:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22171; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:09:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:09:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:09:10 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <20000616183708.7399.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KlfV33.0.CQ5.AtjIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: thrustless jerks On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > >I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep > >whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged > >device. Just tell us how this one thing was accomplished. > > Sounds like someone thinks their being jerked, Keith does too. There are LOTS of pathological liars on internet, and they invariably act immature, using "handles" and anonymous email addresses. When somebody keeps their name hidden, I always suspect personal problems. But there are also serious inventors who are frightened by stories of government suppression and death threats. (A couple of NON-anonymous inventors have told me of nasty experiences they personally suffered, so stories of suppression aren't entirely bogus.) Anonymous inventors CANNOT be trusted, because they usually are liars who are just trying to attract attention and get their jollies. The genuine but fearful inventors who insist on remaining anonymous must unfortunately destroy their own case by behaving the same as the hoaxers and giving us no reason to trust them. All I can say is to look at all of the fringe-sci people who are not anonymous, yet have not been silenced. Look at the hundreds of plans and even patents for "impossible" devices which were never suppressed. Fear might have been justified in 1950 or even 1970, but there are so many people "out of the closet" today that one more inventor going public has little chance of attracting attention from nasty government types. The "gravity capcitor" plans have been on my site for years, (as well as all sorts of other weird devices), and I've never received the tiniest threat, been followed, had break-ins, etc. And now we have people apparently building successful devices, yet they are SCARED TO TELL US THEIR NAMES! Everyone must decide for themselves whether to stay hidden or not, but I know what my own decision is: secrecy lets the bad guys win. Look at Pons and Fleichman: just a little bit of secrecy on their part essentially wrecked Cold Fusion for years. Only the exact opposite of secrecy will crack things open. Don't just SAY you're successful. Even plans and pictures aren't enough (look at all the detailed fringe-sci websites which are being ignored right now.) Instead HELP OTHERS REPRODUCE YOUR SUCCESS. On the home front: the print shop is still waiting for a laser-cut stamping die. I just found out that the laser-cutting place lost the pattern (hey, maybe the MIBs spirited it away!?) :) When I have a few hundred tin capacitor plates, I can start playing. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 20:04:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02860; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:03:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:03:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:03:49 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"piQa6.0.Xi.PgkIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: "C" and "S" messages On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Keith Nagel wrote: > Most of the impetus for this > current interest is the alleged positive results of Clifford > Luckiesh, who from Bills post is emailable > at > > clifford luckiesh > > By the way, I don't know if Bill intended to > release this address, but there it was > in the header of his post Ooops, damn. I didn't want large numbers of people emailing this guy without his specific permission. However, he did NOT say to keep his address hidden when forwarding his mail, that was my idea. He doesn't know how many people are on the list. I asked more than once if it was OK to publicize his email address, but he didn't say yes or no yet. > Numerous contradictory statements can be found > in the email exchange between Bill and C, for example try and > figure out how he's powering the device. > He tells Bill something different in just > about every post. DC, AC, High voltage, low voltage? I suppose > the next step is to write him directly, but > could you really think of a reasonable question > to ask? I'm still thinking... Maybe this: "of the power supplies you've used, which one gave the most thrust, and what are the details for that particular one (any static generator, or AC only, or AC superimposed on DC, and how did you measure the high voltage?) " > Oh yes, and lets not forget the previous > "mystery" poster, who was consumed by > the MIB's (or agents of SEUS?) right > on april 1st???????? I think I'll make his correspondence public so everyone can judge for themselves whether he was a hoaxer. He gave permisson to publicize his messages, and I had make a cleaned-up file ready for his review when he returned on Mar 31. Since he was talking about showing his device to friends in the military, and since he suddenly dropped out of sight at the same time, I was cautious about making trouble for him wherever he might be, by suddenly posting all the messages. But since many weeks have passed with no peep, I think the value of the messages is more important. Give them a read, then consider his sudden silence. It's chilling. Except for the secrecy, he seems genuine. (But I still can't help thinking that if I wanted to pull off a really GOOD hoax, that's how I would do it!) After all, it's so easy to reduce suspicion by doing everything above-board with no secrecy at all. The "S" correspondence is here (w/some personal stuff removed): http://www.amasci.com/caps/sot.txt The Cliff Luckiesh correspondence is here: http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwk2.txt ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 20:42:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA10169; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:41:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:41:53 -0700 Message-ID: <20000617034119.82044.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.37] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: thrustless jerks Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 03:41:19 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"oUMH41.0.oU2.0ElIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I hope I've not given the impression of being bitter. I began my first work with the "Electric Rocket" in '97 or '98, not necessarily in secret, I just didn't have anyone or anything to tell. I've tried most of the workable ideas I could come up with and none of them have been successful. Mind you, all the experiments were successes, they have successfully shown me things that I could not get to work. I still have more ideas to try, I'll just keep knocking on the doors till something (more than the little I'm getting) happens. Truly yours without malice hoping to be a thrustful jerk, Colin aka nosferado@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 20:44:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11569; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:44:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:44:07 -0700 Message-ID: <20000617034333.44205.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.37] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: thrustless jerks Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 03:43:33 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"n6lLp1.0.gq2.6GlIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh, PS, this was actually writen by someone else > >On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > > > >I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep > > >whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged > > >device. Just tell us how this one thing was accomplished. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 20:49:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13303; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:49:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:49:06 -0700 Message-ID: <20000617034835.3046.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.37] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: thrustless jerks Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 03:48:35 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"jb03y1.0.iF3.oKlIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh, PS this part was not writen by me >On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > > > >I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep > > >whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged > > >device. Just tell us how this one thing was accomplished. > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 16 22:52:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA00734; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 22:52:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 22:52:05 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <63.71129c6.267c6b68@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 01:49:28 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"3SiNL.0.JB.58nIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? Does anyone know the magnetic properties of an electrical spark? Is it attracted to a magnet? Are it's properties in this respect the same in a vacuum? Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 06:59:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31321; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:58:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:58:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001701bfd860$43d29f00$0200a8c6@stealth> From: "R.U. Sirius" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:30:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"20Nub1.0.Df7.3GuIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'm not sure about in a vacuum, but I'm pretty sure an arc is attracted to a magnet. Not in respect to arcing to the magnet, but for example having an arc between two electrodes and moving a magnet in beside the arc will cause it to "bend" towards the magnet. I could have dreamed all of this though so I'm not sure... I think the reason it sticks in my mind is I remember something I saw somewhere about someone that was trying to make some sort of strange sparkgap where the arc was broken by magnets on a wheel passing by. I don't remember anything about it though... -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com To: energy21@listbot.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; jlnlabs@egroups.com Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 1:53 AM Subject: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? >Does anyone know the magnetic properties of an electrical spark? Is it >attracted to a magnet? Are it's properties in this respect the same in a >vacuum? >Thanks, >Butch LaFonte > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 07:30:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03300; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 07:30:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 07:30:18 -0700 Message-ID: <00f801bfd868$65ab8080$68d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:29:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F5_01BFD846.DDFB2F80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"tJwsO1.0.Kp.wjuIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: light speed! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01BFD846.DDFB2F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know how to do the calculations to find out how long it = would take a man to accelerate to light speed without being killed? I'm = just curious... ------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01BFD846.DDFB2F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Does anyone know how to do the = calculations=20 to find out how long it would take a man to accelerate to light speed = without=20 being killed? I'm just curious...
------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01BFD846.DDFB2F80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 08:37:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA16603; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 08:36:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 08:36:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? In-Reply-To: <63.71129c6.267c6b68@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YTTjR1.0.K34.9ivIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 17 Jun 2000 HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know the magnetic properties of an electrical spark? Is it > attracted to a magnet? Are it's properties in this respect the same in a > vacuum? To a first approximation, a spark is just an electric current, so if the amperes are high, a magnet should deflect the spark. AC arcs seem to ignore magnets, although the arc from a neon sign transformer does spread out the tiniest bit when near a very strong PM. AC arcs in theory should respond to **AC ELECTROMAGNETS**, since the forces will be unidirectional, but I've never messed around with this effect. A permanent magnet doesn't affect the plasma fingers in a "plasma globe", but I wonder what would happen if a high-freq ferrite core electromagnet was driven in synch by the same power supply? That might be a way to create "programmable art", by placing high-freq coils inside a plasma sphere's chamber and driving them with synchronized current. I once played with a $400 vacuum tube from a physics classroom catalog. The "fine beam tube" is a simple CRT but with a trace of helium which makes the electron beam visible. This device is totally amazing. Wave a magnet around, and the beam goes crazy, curling into spirals and reflecting via the "magnetic mirror" effect. With a couple of big loudspeaker magnets I was able to create shapes which looked like woven baskets (like plasma confinement systems, or the MIGMA aneutronic fusion system.) A very cool but expensive toy, found in the TEL-atomic catalog http://www.telatomic.com/ttubes4.html. It needed a 6.3AC supply and a 300V variable DC supply, if I recall. I've never played with DC arcs in air, but DC glow discharges in low pressure tubes do LOTS of weird things when near the pole of a PM. The glowing "striated column" undergoes quantized jumps, developing more and less layers as you wave the magnet around. It's not just deflection, its quantum mechanics and Complexity (emergent structures in nonequilibrium systems.) The current in any spark or discharge will be important. If it's too low, a magnet will have little effect. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 08:44:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19038; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 08:44:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 08:44:38 -0700 Message-ID: <394B9C34.4685CBBC@informatics.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:41:40 -0500 From: Jon Flickinger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? References: <001701bfd860$43d29f00$0200a8c6@stealth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-RZzJ2.0.Nf4.bpvIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch and all, I missed the original post you made on this Butch, but I can tell you from experience that when trying to TIG weld thin steel stock held in place by magnets, the arc is drawn to the magnet(s) when is close proximity (1/2"-1") and really creates a problem because the arc "wanders" making it difficult to produce a precise weld. For those not familiar with TIG welding, the process involves a tungsten electrode (usually thoriated by 1-2%) that is used to produce an arc to the workpiece at a typical distance of 1/16". An inert gas such as argon or helium surrounds the arc area to prevent oxidation of the material. My particular welder uses a high voltage/high frequency to start the arc without contact and even this arc is drawn to the magnet(s) and can make starting difficult! BTW, the magnets used are RS 1" x 2" x 3/8" rectangular ferrite types. Jon Flickinger "R.U. Sirius" wrote: > I'm not sure about in a vacuum, but I'm pretty sure an arc is attracted to a > magnet. Not in respect to arcing to the magnet, but for example having an > arc between two electrodes and moving a magnet in beside the arc will cause > it to "bend" towards the magnet. I could have dreamed all of this though so > I'm not sure... I think the reason it sticks in my mind is I remember > something I saw somewhere about someone that was trying to make some sort of > strange sparkgap where the arc was broken by magnets on a wheel passing by. > I don't remember anything about it though... > > -----Original Message----- > From: HLafonte@aol.com > To: energy21@listbot.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com > ; jlnlabs@egroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 1:53 AM > Subject: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? > > >Does anyone know the magnetic properties of an electrical spark? Is it > >attracted to a magnet? Are it's properties in this respect the same in a > >vacuum? > >Thanks, > >Butch LaFonte > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 09:35:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA29969; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:35:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:35:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:35:25 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_DM0g1.0.1K7.NZwIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav cap energized by pulses? clifford luckiesh wrote: > plate etc.. Do NOT exceed tab lengths of 650Mils, this "capacitor" does > generate a EHF frequency that we just found that we think is a harmonic of > earth gravity wave. To maintain this lenght, groups of 30 or 60 plates or > what ever your design allows will help this. I will be sending a drawing of > this design later. The groups also have a length per common connection, if > your design is working, you will have a close working model and can be > "tuned" to have geater strength. The many KGs of thrust claimed by "S" was attained in a device with groups of 30 plates if I understand correctly (15 positives, 15 negatives in a group,) and each group was individually switched into contact with the VandeGraaf machine. But did he use DPDT switches, or did he ground one side? He was afraid of the stored energy, so did he use big knife switches which could be poked with a stick from a distance? And were all the connecting wires the same length? If *PULSES* have any importance, then "S" was accidentally applying fairly huge pulses to his capacitor. If he turned on the first switch, then the first group would silently charge to full voltage in a couple of seconds. When he turned the next switch on, there might be a big "snap" noise, since THE FIRST GROUP WOULD INSTANTLY CHARGE THE SECOND GROUP. The VDG would then raise the voltage of these two groups some more, and when he closed the third switch, there would be a LOUDER discharge in the switch, since the two groups would charge the third. As he turned the switches on in sequence, he might be hearing "bang! bang! bang!" A bit frightening, as he mentions in his email. Yet if he first turned on ALL the switches before powering up the VDG machine, he'd never hear a thing unless he tried to discharge the stack. From his mail, it sounds like he was trying to discharge the device less violently by connecting the shorting bar while immersed under oil, but this isn't very clear. Maybe things start jumpin' only when the grav-cap is charged by a huge pulse. If so, then "S" might not have noticed that the thrust was zero after turning on the first switch, and only became signficant when he turned on the second. If high-freq effects are important, then this pulse-charging might make the inside of the capacitor electromagnetically ring like a bell. Anyone remember the "Blumlien nitrogen pulse laser" from Scientific American AMATEUR SCIENTIST? In that device, a PC-board capacitor was discharged by a spark gap at one edge, and supposedly an EM wave would propagate across the capacitor plates as if they were some sort of 2D planar waveguide. If one section of the "grav cap" is used to instantaneously charge an adjacent section, then both sections should experience internal EM waves. The 9-pole shape of the plates would cause these waves to flow INWARDS towards the hole. It's almost like the shaped-charge acoustic waves of the "Fat man" atomic bomb. Mr. Luckiesh mentions that his device keeps thrusting even with power removed. Maybe this is caused by a remaining charge on the plates, or by dielectric absorbtion or something. On the other hand, maybe it has something to do with the gravity physics. Maybe the gravity effects decay away slowly with a long time constant. If so, then maybe the grav-cap is not a DC device at all, maybe its more like a flywheel or a ringing bell. Maybe the large thrust only appears when the cap is charged by a huge pulse, and the large thrust persists even if we remove the charge again (remove it relatively slowly over a few seconds with a bunch of 10meg resistors.) People with grav-caps might consider replicating the setup of "S". Wire the plates up in separate groups with separate knife switches connecting them to the power supply. When the switches are closed in sequence, does it make loud discharge noise? Does it create thrust? Try it with connecting wires of identical length and of stepped increasing or decreasing lenght. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 11:52:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA27097; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:52:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:52:11 -0700 Message-ID: <20000617185136.23783.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.81] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:51:36 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"pq8Jt3.0.Id6.RZyIv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I am been using magnetic spark quenchers in my Tesla coils for a while, magnetic fields have a very pronouced effect on arcs when coupled correctly. \ . . / \ . . / \ . . / \ . . / -------- Electromagnet with mica shield to prevent \ . N . / arcing to magnet \ ... / ----- > < ----------- spark gap ----- / ... \ / . S . \ --------- Other pole of same magnet(with shield) / . . \ / . . \ / . . \ Incidentally, this is Tesla's own design, works quite well. Tesla did quite a bit of research in this area (spark plasma/magnetics), I highly recommend that review his work. Tim Richardson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 15:20:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05126; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 15:18:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 15:18:29 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 18:17:45 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"2Hebr2.0.wF1.ra_Iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Take a look at this site Current Generators http://bednorzmuller87.phys.cmu.edu/demonstrations/electricityandmagnetism/ind ucedcurrentsandemf/demo6402.html Carnegie Mellon University - Department of Physics Take a look at all the different areas of information! Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 17:37:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01049; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 17:36:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 17:36:43 -0700 Message-ID: <001101bfd8bd$293f5c20$b5e728c3@Ardvark> From: "Ardvark" To: References: <001701bfd860$43d29f00$0200a8c6@stealth> <394B9C34.4685CBBC@informatics.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:35:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"2tvOJ.0.IG.Qc1Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I am also a welder and I can tell you that welding materials that have been magnetised is very difficult to say the least, the magnetic field creates eddy currents when an arc is initiated which cause it to wander all over the place. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Flickinger" To: Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? > Hi Butch and all, > > I missed the original post you made on this Butch, but I can tell you from > experience that when trying to TIG weld thin steel stock held in place by > magnets, the arc is drawn to the magnet(s) when is close proximity (1/2"-1") and > really creates a problem because the arc "wanders" making it difficult to > produce a precise weld. For those not familiar with TIG welding, the process > involves a tungsten electrode (usually thoriated by 1-2%) that is used to > produce an arc to the workpiece at a typical distance of 1/16". An inert gas > such as argon or helium surrounds the arc area to prevent oxidation of the > material. My particular welder uses a high voltage/high frequency to start the > arc without contact and even this arc is drawn to the magnet(s) and can make > starting difficult! BTW, the magnets used are RS 1" x 2" x 3/8" rectangular > ferrite types. > > Jon Flickinger > > "R.U. Sirius" wrote: > > > I'm not sure about in a vacuum, but I'm pretty sure an arc is attracted to a > > magnet. Not in respect to arcing to the magnet, but for example having an > > arc between two electrodes and moving a magnet in beside the arc will cause > > it to "bend" towards the magnet. I could have dreamed all of this though so > > I'm not sure... I think the reason it sticks in my mind is I remember > > something I saw somewhere about someone that was trying to make some sort of > > strange sparkgap where the arc was broken by magnets on a wheel passing by. > > I don't remember anything about it though... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: HLafonte@aol.com > > To: energy21@listbot.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > ; jlnlabs@egroups.com > > Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 1:53 AM > > Subject: [FG]: Is spark plasma magnetic? > > > > >Does anyone know the magnetic properties of an electrical spark? Is it > > >attracted to a magnet? Are it's properties in this respect the same in a > > >vacuum? > > >Thanks, > > >Butch LaFonte > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 19:49:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21909; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 19:48:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 19:48:38 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:47:38 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20000616233201.23261.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"rdr1G1.0.AM5.5Y3Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well, this isn't much of an answer gost, why ignore my question, eh? I suppose your answer is you're doing it in a molten salt cell? Think you can get a controlled growth with a thin even layer in such a cell? And hey, what happens to your Bismuth plated material (which melts at 271 degrees C) when it is placed in the 700 degree C molten salt bath? It just clings to the plate, huh? Please stop posting this nonsense. It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. I wouldn't mind this if you are just speculating, but saying "I've done it" when you haven't is just plain lying. Now, I gather you're one of these religious types. Remember that commandment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness?" Oh yeah, but God's telling you otherwise, I forgot....extra points if you can at least tell me which number this commandment is. K. -----Original Message----- From: Gost Blaster [mailto:gost_2001@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:32 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public --- Rick Monteverde wrote: > Gost - > > How do you make the bismuth salt solution? Just > start electrolysing > bismuth in a salt water electrolyte? > Electroplating method Isn't very familiar. Electrolytic industrial processes for metals include the production of metals themselves from their compounds, which is called the electrowinning of metals; the electrolytic purification of metals; and the deposition or electroplating of metals on conducting surfaces. In all three types of electrolytic process, the reactions are reduction of ions of the metal in solution in some carefully selected electrolyte. The electrowinning of metals, or the production of metals from their compounds, is the oldest industrial electrolytic process. Sodium metal was first prepared in 1807 by the English chemist Humphrey Davy, who obtained it using electrolysis of molten sodium hydroxide. Several industrially important metals (the active metals which react with water) are produced commercially today by electrolysis of molten SALTS. Electrowinning of Magnesium is also a major industrial process, and is the most commonly used industrial process for magnesium production although other methods such as chemical reduction of magnesium compounds at high temperatures with carbon, calcium carbide, or ferrosilicon have been used. The raw material for magnesium production is well brines or more commonly seawater, which is about 0.13% magnesium by mass. The Mg2+ ion is precipitated from seawater by addition of CaO (lime), produced by calcining (strong heating) of CaCO3 (limestone or oyster shells). The insoluble Mg(OH)2 is removed by filtration. Acidification of a slurry of this solid and an aqueous MgCl2 solution with HCl converts the Mg(OH)2 to soluble MgCl2, which is recovered as solid MgCl2 by evaporation. This is dried to the hydrate MgCl2.1.5H2O, which is used as the feedstock to an electrolytic cell. The cell electrolyte is a molten mixture containing about 25% MgCl2 - 15% CaCl2 - 60% NaCl, and the cell is operated between 700oC and 750oC. The cell electrolytic reaction is MgCl2 --> Mg(l) + Cl2(g). The magnesium produced is about 99.9% pure as it comes from the cell, since neither sodium nor calcium is reducible more easily than is magnesium. The chlorine produced in the cell is converted to HCl for use in the acidification process by reaction with natural gas and steam or in a hydrogen/chlorine burner. Both salts Bi/Mg are available from manufacturers. You can get an appropriate electroplating kit, that includes power supply, electrodes, etc. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 19:56:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23789; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 19:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 19:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <20000618025546.2355.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 19:55:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Gost Blaster Subject: Re: [FG]: gost blaster secrecy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"mGw5-2.0.cp5.If3Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Which infos? Something is secret? Why? > > > To SEUS agents:: Is too late, You lost :) > > Not yet. You know about? or you say it sarcastic? probably not, so you can ignore that. > I suspect that most FREENRG-L people do > not believe you. That's > the trouble with secrecy: it keeps you safe, but > secrecy is DISHONEST: it > is "dishonesty through omission", and also anonymous > people can lie > without suffering any consequences. Liars like to > remain anonymous, so if > you keep yourself hidden, we will suspect that > perhaps you are a liar. To > win our trust, you have to let us know all about > you. There's no other > way. But if you reveal your name, address, etc., is > this dangerous? If > so, then "SEUS agents" have not yet lost, because > they've scared you into > remaining anonymous, and that makes us distrust you. > > > > If you want to blow this "capacitor" thing wide > open, then just let > everyone know your name and address, give out your > phone number so other > FREENRG-L users can talk to you realtime, and send > us pictures of your > flying capacitors and power supplies and > electroplating tank. That's what > I would do if I were you. Send fear and secrecy to > hell, and change the > world right now. > Are you all guys police investigators? I thought you were sientists or patent investigators.! ID's are not realy democratic stuff.. is it? Famus people are prisoners to my knoledge... I can keep my self to me. thanks. People don't believe me because I keep secrecy? And you think I am a lyer? Isn't realy very clever and worthy discusing those... Ask your self if you believe me, if yes proceed, if not ignore my messages. That goes to everyone. I guess most people believe me (including you) the rest (investigators) will believe later. Sooner or later Cliff "C" Luckiesh will try bismuth. I pass the message.... I'm off __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 20:19:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA27804; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:19:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:19:04 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Freenrg-L" Cc: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: [FG]: "C" and "S" messages Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 23:18:01 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"aVABd1.0.Go6.d-3Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill writes >Ooops, damn. again, I apologize for pushing this fact forward. >Maybe this: "of the power supplies you've used, which one gave the most >thrust, and what are the details for that particular one (any static >generator, or AC only, or AC superimposed on DC, and how did you measure >the high voltage?) " Great, but you asked him basically this same question about 3 times in the email exchange I last read. And you get different answers each time. You've posted a set of plans on your web site. They either work, or they don't. If they don't, and your friend used these as a starting point, he only needs to correct those plans. Considering the amount of email you've exchanged, this doesn't seem like a terribly onerous thing. But instead, what you get is great gobs of "I do this, I do that, terrific thrust, now I go back to day job" Bill, would you go back to your day job after discovering something of this importance? With a functioning prototype? Or would you instead post confused messages to a list moderator about demons and UFO's. I appreciate your open-mindedness about this; but it is beyond me that someone would bother to publicise the fact that they were able to do this. And if they did, why not just update your plans and send a one time message anonymously. Can you think of a GOOD reason why someone would string you along like this without some real proof or failing that a concrete plan? He seems to have no problem reproducing the effect. In fact, the only people who do are the people who are willing to back up their claims. You seem to have a good relation with him, please suggest to him that he provide an updated plan. Don't let him dodge the question. See what he says. If he doesn't wish to provide concrete information, ask him why he's been emailing you so much. What's his motivation? K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 20:30:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30268; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:30:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:30:32 -0700 Message-ID: <20000618032959.11777.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:29:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Gost Blaster Subject: Re: [FG]: thrustless jerks To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"PIaoj2.0.rO7.N94Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- William Beaty wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > > > >I don't care about the rest of it, you can keep > > >whatever secrets you like regarding your alleged > > >device. Just tell us how this one thing was > accomplished. > > > > Sounds like someone thinks their being jerked, > Keith does too. > Big mouths... > > There are LOTS of pathological liars on internet, > and they invariably act > immature, using "handles" and anonymous email > addresses. When somebody > keeps their name hidden, I always suspect personal > problems. But there > are also serious inventors who are frightened by > stories of government > suppression and death threats. (A couple of > NON-anonymous inventors have > told me of nasty experiences they personally > suffered, so stories of > suppression aren't entirely bogus.) > > Anonymous inventors CANNOT be trusted, because they > usually are liars who > are just trying to attract attention and get their > jollies. The genuine > but fearful inventors who insist on remaining > anonymous must unfortunately > destroy their own case by behaving the same as the > hoaxers and giving us > no reason to trust them. > > All I can say is to look at all of the fringe-sci > people who are not > anonymous, yet have not been silenced. Look at the > hundreds of plans and > even patents for "impossible" devices which were > never suppressed. Fear > might have been justified in 1950 or even 1970, but > there are so many > people "out of the closet" today that one more > inventor going public has > little chance of attracting attention from nasty > government types. > > The "gravity capcitor" plans have been on my site > for years, (as well as > all sorts of other weird devices), and I've never > received the tiniest > threat, been followed, had break-ins, etc. And now > we have people > apparently building successful devices, yet they are > SCARED TO TELL US > THEIR NAMES! Everyone must decide for themselves > whether to stay hidden > or not, but I know what my own decision is: secrecy > lets the bad guys win. > Look at Pons and Fleichman: just a little bit of > secrecy on their part > essentially wrecked Cold Fusion for years. Only the > exact opposite of > secrecy will crack things open. Don't just SAY > you're successful. Even > plans and pictures aren't enough (look at all the > detailed fringe-sci > websites which are being ignored right now.) > Instead HELP OTHERS > REPRODUCE YOUR SUCCESS. > > On the home front: the print shop is still waiting > for a laser-cut > stamping die. I just found out that the > laser-cutting place lost the > pattern (hey, maybe the MIBs spirited it away!?) :) > When I have a few > hundred tin capacitor plates, I can start playing. > I agree with you. Very typical..!!! ok... If you think that I am a thrustless jerk, Does that hearting you? I give away practical proven infos and you call me thrustless jerk.?? Lets Look at you and some famous investigators around, so many years you know about that patent and you didn't try the minimum. Lets not discuss any further.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 20:57:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03302; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:57:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:57:23 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: thrustless jerks Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 23:56:27 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20000618032959.11777.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"MT9lb2.0.Up.YY4Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gost writes >I give away practical proven infos and you call me >thrustless jerk.?? >Lets Look at you and some famous investigators around, >so many years you know about that patent and you >didn't try the minimum. >Lets not discuss any further.. What's wrong gost. You're on the list. You're responding to messages. But you're ignoring me. Why is that? Practical proven information? Like plating a metal from a molten salt bath 400degrees C higher than the melting point of the base metal? But you won't respond to me. You're afraid aren't you? Because you don't know what you're talking about, and I'm wising up the marks. Because this is a con, gost. You're trying to get people to do your experiments for you, by claiming to have already done them. That's the con. Oh, we need to discuss this much further... K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 22:35:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA05819; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <394C5E3B.6305273D@harti.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 07:29:31 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geoff Egel , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <39EC378B@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fA49q3.0.lQ1.qz5Jv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, electret function ! Hi Geoff and all, now this: http://www.overunity.com/testatika/neweng.htm is now getting very clear to me. Look at the drawing of Mr. Holzherr. The plexiglas arm with its mesh electrodes is nothing else than a simple electret formed via plexiglas and 2 mesh electrodes. One aluminium mesh electrode and at the other side steel mesh electrode ! Electrets are also done this way. One HV charged dielectric with one electrodes on each side ! The electret arm has a static HV charge which it INFLUENCES (electrically induces) into the block of brass meshes and plexiglas under it, when the plexiglas arm is swept back and forth by Mr. Baumann ! This way he is able to charge the 2 capacitors up. Now the whole Testatika machine consists of 2 electret discs rotating in counterdirection. This is also why the 2 discs or at least one disc MUST HAVE ON BOTH SIDES mesh electrodes ! It must be an electret disc having the metal electrodes on each side of the plexiglas disc ! Via the metal mesh electrodes the electric charges are got out from the nonconducting plexiglas disc ! This is just done via INFLUENCE into the "taster" electrodes as Methernitha calls them. (collecting pickup electrodes) Now imagine the 2 electret discs acting like permanent magnets in the electrical field ! They just attract each other, until the mesh eletrodes align with PLUS and Minus to each other. This was also reported by Stefan Marinow, that the discs tended to rotate from alone, if you stopped them. So this tells us, that the 2 discs want to align this way, that the electrodes want to have the opposite polarity so to attract each other and influencing inside each other and inside the brushless pickup electrodes big voltages via influence, which are charging up the leyden jars. Now, if they have aligned after maybe 10 degrees of rotation, then there comes an electric impulse via the switching of the HV motor (coils with permanent magnet rotor) going to the pickup "taster" electrodes and reverses the polarity in at least a few segments of at least one electret disc, so there is an imbalance and the electret discs can rotate on and the next segments attract each other. I guess, inside the smaller 300 Watts models we just only have one electret disc rotating and fixed electrets (crystal type electrodes with meshes fixed to them, so there the rotation speed is much higher, cause "one disc" is fixed and the "other" disc is rotating ! Now, why is Mr. Baumann using wire mesh instead of full foil electrodes ? It seems he uses the polarized iones of the air as the power source, so to trap as many as possible ions he probably needs the wire mesh, so also the ions have contact to the surface of the plexiglas electret polarisation surface. This way normal air is ionisized and is trapped between the discs and the charges of the ionized air are seperated and pushed onto the meshed metal electrodes and thus produce more electricity. This is it, what he calls : "One disc is the earth and the other disc is the cloud and it produces electricity due to nature´s secret of lightning" He just collects as much as possible seperated ion and electron charges from the air and to seperate them he needs the contact with the plexiglas, that is why he uses the mesh electrodes ! Clever done ! :) Did you know one cm^3 of air has about 10^23 molecules which could be charge seperated, when I remember correctly ?! That is also why the bigger you build the discs the more electrical power you get ! This is also why the 30 KW machine needs 2 meter diameter sized discs. BTW, the HV is CAPACITIVELY transformed down to about 270 to 300 Volts. It seems to be a capacitive transformer via different sized leyden jars and switching the charges between them can transform the high voltage down, if you go from small capacitance HV leyden jars to bigger capacitance leyden jars, the voltage is automatically transformed down ! This is probably down also via this HV motor and its commutator and also via this diode, which is mentioned, which is probably a HV crystal diode ! So I guess the Testatika machines are not anymore this mysterious. It is just an electrostatical influence machine done via electret discs. Also imagine the experiment from Graham Gunderson done with an HV electret as the power source and not a charged oil capacitor ! This will also charge up the Avramenko plug very good ! I guess we now need to find good materials for electrets to build ! Think about it. Hope this clears up some mystery also for you ! Regards, Stefan. Geoff Egel schrieb: > > >===== Original Message From "Stefan Hartmann" ===== > >-- In ou-builders@egroups.com, Dave Squires wrote: > >> Stefan, > >> Ah hah!!! So it has a drive motor after all. > > Yes I think you are right about the drive wheel > The video of the machine I have quite clearly shows a belt driving the device > > But I think it was needed to help control the speed of the device. > apparently the speed was an inportant consideration. > > Makes one wonder if this timed to the electret discharge and recharge cycle of > the electret. > > It good to see that others think the device has electrets as previously > mentioned at my brightsparks and solaris website pages dealing with the > Tetakica. > although I don't think this is complete answer. > > An interesting observation I made when playing around with my wimshurst > machine. , was both discs did not need to move at the same relative speed > as long as there was some motion of the disk moving in opposite directions. > > That is one disk could be rotating faster that the other disk but they had to > be in opposite directions. > > Has anyone else noticed this effect as well. > > Geoff > > Website > > energy 21 website at energy 21.org -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 22:42:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA19222; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:41:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:41:57 -0700 Message-ID: <394C603C.EF5F02DE@harti.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 07:38:04 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6m5_l2.0.6i4.b46Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: PFT motor with electrets selfrunning ? Hi JL, could your PFT motor run itsself, if you would build it via a HV electret as the plastic cylinder ?? Or at least, if you would use a HV electret as the power source ? -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 22:45:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20098; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:45:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:45:09 -0700 Message-ID: <394C62BF.8DDA620E@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:48:49 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6Eg613.0.tv4.a76Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: NASA's Earth Power Generator HI, Clipped the account from a PDF available on NASA's website talking about how the Space Shuttle used a tethered satellite to generate power from the Earth's field(s). We have the same fields down here as they used in space. I guess they are trying the "free energy" thing too. Seems it's not really a question of whether or not it's possible, just coming up with the right technology... MJ Part 2 demonstrates how the tethered satellite and the Space Shuttle orbiter interact with Earth's magnetic field to produce an electric current. Future applications of the tethered satellite/Space Shuttle orbiter system as a motor are described. 3 Tethered Satellites - Video Resource Guide - EV-1997-07-011-HQ In spite of these problems, each major objective was met. The flights demonstrated that the tethered satellite would deploy and the forces acting on the satellite and the orbiter worked to keep the satellite extended from the orbiter without additional thruster firing. Both missions also demonstrated that tethered satellites will generate an electric current as they pass through Earth's magnetic field. Part 1 of this video concentrates on the forces and motions acting on the tethered satellite and Space Shuttle orbiter. Orbital scenes were taken on the STS-46 mission which launched on July 31, 1992. Part 2 of this video concentrates on the electrodynamics of the tether in space. Mathematical Equations Illustrated in the Video To explain the dynamics of the tethered satellite system, the following equations appear in Part 1: Newton's Second Law of Motion Force equals mass times acceleration. Universal Law of Gravitation For two masses, the attractive force of gravity between them is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between their centers of mass. To explain the electrical nature of the tethered satellite system, the following equations appear in Part 2: Ohm's Law This law states that the amount of current (i) in an electrical circuit is directly proportional to the voltage (v) of the circuit and inversely proportional to the resistance (r) of the circuit. Two variations of the equation above are used in the video. The equations and the values used in the video are given below. Lorenz Force An electron passing through a magnetic field experiences a force that is perpendicular to both the direction of motion and Earth's magnetic field. BxVxL = voltage Earth's magnetic field x velocity of tether x tether length = voltage 3x10 -5 tesla x 8,000 meters per second x 20,000 meters = 4,800 volts F = ma F F m m 1 2 r 2 ts ss ts ss 500kg x 20,000 m = 100,000kg x 1,000m i =v r r = = = 9,600 ohms (W )v i 4,800 0.5 i = = = 2 amps (A) v r 1,000 500 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 23:00:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA23449; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 23:00:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 23:00:37 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <55.769a89d.267dbf7b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:00:27 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"9ujYH3.0.Ik5.5M6Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/17/00 7:32:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, paradis2@peganet.com writes: > Does anyone know how to do the calculations to find out how long it would > take a man to accelerate to light speed without being killed? I'm just > curious... > Slight problem here -- a man can't accelerate to light speed because as he gets close the force required to accelerate him further becomes infinite. But IF YOU IGNORE THAT LITTLE DETAIL the calculation is very simple. V = A x T , where V = c = 3 x 10^8 , A = 9.8g, where g is the number of g's a man can tolerate, and T is the time in seconds. So for 1 g the time is 354.3 days, (if I didn't make a math error). For more g's divide the time by the number of g's. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 17 23:08:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25719; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 23:08:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 23:08:06 -0700 Message-ID: <394C681E.55082343@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:11:43 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0Wukn2.0.iH6.6T6Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Faraday Book Website Coming Hi All, I got a scanner. I am going to start turning Faraday's letters/papers on Earth Power and water separation into a website tomorrow. MJ P.S.: A few thoughts on Faraday's "other" book; Faraday, Michael, Jesus Christ, a fiction. (My, he was a forward thinker wasn't he?) Founded upon the life of Apolonius of Tyana. (Ok I heard that theory before) The pagan priests of Rome originated Christianity ; (Hehehe) new and startling disclosures by its founders, and full explanations by ancient spirits. (Hmmmmm. Exactly WHICH "Ancient Spirits" were giving Mr. Faraday this information I wonder?!?) Transcribed by M. Faraday. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 01:06:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA11498; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:06:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:06:09 -0700 Message-ID: <001501bfd8fc$819ef620$299da0d1@pavilion> From: "Norm Silliman" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:09:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFD8C1.D4B0AF60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"VCj-u2.0.Up2.nB8Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFD8C1.D4B0AF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Chris O'Barr Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:30 AM =20 =20 Does anyone know how to do the calculations to find out how long = it would take a man to accelerate to light speed without being killed? = I'm just curious... =20 How about one hundred million years. =20 Why do you think that acceleration will kill you? =20 Norm ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFD8C1.D4B0AF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Chris O'Barr <paradis2@peganet.com>
D= ate:=20 Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:30 AM

    Does anyone know how to do = the=20 calculations to find out how long it would take a man to accelerate = to light=20 speed without being killed? I'm just curious...
 
How about one hundred million = years.
 
Why do you think that acceleration will kill=20 you?
 
Norm
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFD8C1.D4B0AF60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 06:56:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13480; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 06:56:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 06:56:15 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:56:10 -0400 Message-Id: <200006181356.JAA28552@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, electret function ! Resent-Message-ID: <"wZFFA.0.XI3._JDJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan writes: >I guess we now need to find good materials for electrets to build ! >Think about it. > >Hope this clears up some mystery also for you ! > >Regards, Stefan. Hi Stefan, I've read that acrylic plates can make good electret material, and I can say from my own experience that they are both dirt cheap and very easy to work with. The process for making an electret, as I understand it, is that you take an acrylic plate and sandwich it between two metal plates that are electrodes. You heat the sandwhich up to the "plasticity point" of the acrylic, which is just below 160 degree Fahrenheit, and then you charge the electrode plates with DC. The voltage and length of time that you charge them, I don't know, but we could find out. The charge evidently warps the polymers into the right shape, and basically turns the acrylic plate into a permanent magnet. You let it the acrylic cool while continuing to charge it, and it will retain the magnetic property after the electrodes are removed. I haven't done this myself, and the decription above is not perfect, but from I've read, this is something that is well within the means of most of the builders in this group. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 07:23:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19519; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 07:22:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 07:22:52 -0700 Message-ID: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:04:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFD90C.A2C4BAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"BDdxW3.0.Ym4.yiDJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFD90C.A2C4BAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning, gentlemen and ladies; After several months of watching the freenrg archives on a daily = basis, I am taking the plunge. As long as I don't catch too much grief = from the other family members about the loading up of the e-mail, I will = try to remain on, and contribute what I can. Some of you on the list might know me peripherally as the guy who was = working on the Faile transparency effect. And indeed I still am, among = many other projects. By my day job, I hold the title of Scientist (though no PhD, only an = engineering technology degree) for an R&D firm in Toledo, First Solar = LLC. Our concern is Cadmium Telluride based photovoltaic solar. But for the past 15 years, I have experimented with a wide variety of = claimed effects, and some of my own gravity and energy ideas. Been = through the alleys so to speak. Heros include TT Brown, Hooper, = Wallace, Reich, Tesla (of course), and the new breed of quantum vacuum = ZPE supporters.=20 Tried a lot of replications; recently Podkletnov et al. using a = 4"YBCO torus, etc. Nothing positive. And as well, yes, I tried a very = simple version of the gravity cap; 6 layers of mylar sheet discs with = the metal patterned by sputtered Cr-Al. (It's nice to work in a = facility with lots of vacuum equipment and film coaters). Sadly, as = well, no indications of any motion whatsoever, using a GE HVDC supply = set up to vary from 0 to 15 kV (2mA). I think what broke the camel's back so to speak was this recent = go-around with the Bismuth magnesium man. Frankly, I cringe whenever = anyone uses those two words together anymore. I have good reason! Back in 1996, I was one of the parties selected by Linda Howe to run = analysis on a sample of the supposed Bi:Mg Roswell artifact. Being a = vacuum process man, I was instantly suspicious when I first laid eyes on = my sample portion. My first thought was "geez, this looks like the same = sort of buildup I used to scrape off of water cooled shielding inside = large industrial sputter coaters and e-beam systems." It is crumbly, = and columnar, indicating a high epitaxial growth rate on a cold = substrate. I could go on and on. But the short opinion is that the Bismuth = Magnesium artifact was originally either: A) An unintentional industrial residue from either a large vacuum = coating process OR the Betterton-Kroll debismuthizing process used in Pb = refining. This hunk of scrap was then promoted unscrupulously as a = piece of crashed UFO. B) Intentionally made by someone, again using a vacuum process, for the = purpose of chewing up MASSIVE amounts of time and effort by serious UFO = investigators and sincere gravity researchers. These opinions and my evidence to back them up were presented to the = parties requesting my services. The findings were either never used, or = cited out of context. It doesn't make one popular to derail someone = elses gravy train. Well, now it's their problem I guess, though it just = makes me mad the way good amateur scientists are led to end up spending = time obsessing on something that in all likelihood is a hoax. Bismuth IS a wonderful material. It may indeed hold the key to = Wallaces nuclear gravity effect, or RT superconductors. But the Bismuth = Magnesium Art's Parts Roswell artifact is industrial scrapin's now = become mythos. There, enough said on that account. My other main intent was to introduce to the group a project I have = worked on since 1996. It is an effect that I believe is producing a = small but demonstrative amount of electrical energy from the ZPF. It is = based on rapidly varying capacitance. To view this project report, go to the following page of a website = operated by a partner and I; http://www.alliancelink.com/users/avalon/varicap2.htm I would add the following;=20 1. This design was sent to Dr. Hal Puthoff's colleague, Scott Little; = in Austin. Scott and party built a simple version and got some pretty = dramatic results. They did find, however, that a large portion of the = output electrical energy was coming from transfer of charges on the = dielectric (plastic) portion of the machine, like an AC Wimshurst = effect. HOWEVER; the effect still exists even when one builds a version = of the machine completely out of metal. Scott verified this, as well as = I myself. 2. I was also able to demonstrate to Little and Puthoff's = satisfaction, by way of adding inductance into the system, that the = device is NOT a parametric generator. We do note, though , that there = exist several designs for parametric generators that use a variable = capacitor as the signal injection source! I give it to you, dear friends, to pick apart, prove me wrong, or = replicate at your leisure. Oh, BTW, feel free to roam the rest of the website that my generator = paper is on. It is a melange of topics, from ghosts, to psychokinesis, = to petrovoltaics. Some fun, some serious; all for the purpose of = feeding the mind. Glad to join you; thanks Mr. Beaty Nick Reiter ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFD90C.A2C4BAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good morning, gentlemen and = ladies;
 
   After several months of = watching the=20 freenrg archives on a daily basis, I am taking the plunge.  As long = as I=20 don't catch too much grief from the other family members about the = loading up of=20 the e-mail, I will try to remain on, and contribute what I = can.
 
   Some of you on the list = might know me=20 peripherally as the guy who was working on the Faile transparency = effect. =20 And indeed I still am, among many other projects.
 
   By my day job, I hold the = title of=20 Scientist (though no PhD, only an engineering technology degree) for an = R&D=20 firm in Toledo, First Solar LLC.  Our concern is Cadmium Telluride = based=20 photovoltaic solar.
   But for the past 15 years, = I have=20 experimented with a wide variety of claimed effects, and some of my own = gravity=20 and energy ideas.  Been through the alleys so to speak.  Heros = include=20 TT Brown, Hooper, Wallace, Reich, Tesla (of course), and the new breed = of=20 quantum vacuum ZPE supporters. 
 
   Tried a lot of = replications; recently=20 Podkletnov et al. using a 4"YBCO torus, etc.  Nothing = positive.  And=20 as well, yes, I tried a very simple version of the gravity cap; 6 layers = of=20 mylar sheet discs with the metal patterned by sputtered Cr-Al.  = (It's nice=20 to work in a facility with lots of vacuum equipment and film = coaters). =20 Sadly, as well, no indications of any motion whatsoever, using a GE HVDC = supply=20 set up to vary from 0 to 15 kV (2mA).
 
   I think what broke the = camel's back so=20 to speak was this recent go-around with the Bismuth magnesium man.  = Frankly, I cringe whenever anyone uses those two words together = anymore.  I=20 have good reason!
   Back in 1996, I was one of = the parties=20 selected by Linda Howe to run analysis on a sample of the supposed Bi:Mg = Roswell=20 artifact.  Being a vacuum process man, I was instantly suspicious = when I=20 first laid eyes on my sample portion.  My first thought was "geez, = this=20 looks like the same sort of buildup I used to scrape off of water cooled = shielding inside large industrial sputter coaters and e-beam = systems."  It=20 is crumbly, and columnar, indicating a high epitaxial growth rate on a = cold=20 substrate.
   I could go on and = on.  But the=20 short opinion is that the Bismuth Magnesium artifact was originally=20 either:
 
A)  An unintentional industrial = residue from=20 either a large vacuum coating process OR the Betterton-Kroll = debismuthizing=20 process used in Pb refining.  This hunk of scrap was then promoted=20 unscrupulously as a piece of crashed UFO.
B)  Intentionally made by someone, = again using=20 a vacuum process, for the purpose of chewing up MASSIVE amounts of time = and=20 effort by serious UFO investigators and sincere gravity=20 researchers.
 
   These opinions and my = evidence to back=20 them up were presented to the parties requesting my services.  The = findings=20 were either never used, or cited out of context.  It doesn't make = one=20 popular to derail someone elses gravy train.  Well, now it's their = problem=20 I guess, though it just makes me mad the way good amateur scientists are = led to=20 end up spending time obsessing on something that in all likelihood is a=20 hoax.
 
   Bismuth IS a wonderful = material. =20 It may indeed hold the key to Wallaces nuclear gravity effect, or RT=20 superconductors.  But the Bismuth Magnesium Art's Parts Roswell = artifact is=20 industrial scrapin's now become mythos.
   There, enough said on that = account.
 
   My other main intent was = to introduce=20 to the group a project I have worked on since 1996.  It is an = effect that I=20 believe is producing a small but demonstrative amount of electrical = energy from=20 the ZPF.  It is based on rapidly varying capacitance.
   To view this project = report, go to the=20 following page of a website operated by a partner and I;
 
http://www= .alliancelink.com/users/avalon/varicap2.htm
 
   I would add the following; =
 
   1. This design was sent to = Dr. Hal=20 Puthoff's colleague, Scott Little; in Austin.  Scott and party = built a=20 simple version and got some pretty dramatic results.  They did = find,=20 however, that a large portion of the output electrical energy was coming = from=20 transfer of charges on the dielectric (plastic) portion of the machine, = like an=20 AC Wimshurst effect.  HOWEVER; the effect still exists even when = one builds=20 a version of the machine completely out of metal.  Scott verified = this, as=20 well as I myself.
  2.  I was also able to = demonstrate to=20 Little and Puthoff's satisfaction, by way of adding inductance into the = system,=20 that the device is NOT a parametric generator.  We do note, though = , that=20 there exist several designs for parametric generators that use a = variable=20 capacitor as the signal injection source!
 
   I give it to you, dear = friends, to=20 pick apart, prove me wrong, or replicate at your leisure.
 
   Oh, BTW, feel free to roam = the rest of=20 the website that my generator paper is on.  It is a melange of = topics, from=20 ghosts, to psychokinesis, to petrovoltaics.  Some fun, some = serious; all=20 for the purpose of feeding the mind.
 
Glad to join you; thanks Mr. = Beaty
 
Nick Reiter
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFD90C.A2C4BAA0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 09:00:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04725; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:00:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:00:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 08:59:50 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: Keith Nagel cc: Freenrg-L Subject: RE: [FG]: "C" and "S" messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YeOdC1.0.g91.18FJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Keith Nagel wrote: > Bill writes > > >Ooops, damn. > > again, I apologize for pushing this fact forward. No big prob. > something of this importance? With a functioning > prototype? Or would you instead post confused messages > to a list moderator about demons and UFO's. This is about the "S" guy in Europe? He claimed to have gotten sick after working with the capacitor, and that scared him. At the time he was going to set up a separate workshop rather than exposing people in his house to whatever negative biological effects the capacitor might create. At the time of those messages, he apparantly no longer had the capacitor set up, and couldn't test out any suggestions I had. > I appreciate your open-mindedness about this; but > it is beyond me that someone would bother to publicise > the fact that they were able to do this. You don't understand. The entire history of fringe-science has produced NO working devices for sale. Why? Because of secrecy. A few inventors have figured this out, and they realize that if they keep their discoveries secret, nothing will ever come of them. That's a good motivation for releasing information. > And if > they did, why not just update your plans and send > a one time message anonymously. That's what he did. He sent an anonymous message saying that he used those plans, but that he changed the pattern of tin foil and used the pattern depicted in those GIF files. > Can you think > of a GOOD reason why someone would string you along > like this without some real proof or failing that > a concrete plan? He stated that he was going to send drawings and later some AVIs when he made them. That was around March 25, and he never responded to another message. > You seem to have a good relation with him, please > suggest to him that he provide an updated plan. Look at the message dates. He was supposedly going out of town and returning April 1. (Ahem!) But then he stopped responding to all messages. The very last one was March 26. > Don't let him dodge the question. See what he > says. If he doesn't wish to provide concrete > information, ask him why he's been emailing > you so much. What's his motivation? I kept asking him questions, and he kept answering them. What happened? Maybe the whole thing was a lie all along, and all of this is a big waste of time. Or, since he said that he was working with others, maybe they convinced him to go secret again (this would only make sense if they were supplying him with funding.) Maybe he died in a car accident like Thomas Kennedy, the person who was distributing the original plans. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 09:49:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA14433; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:49:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:49:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:48:59 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter In-Reply-To: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Q22NA3.0.QX3._rFJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 18 Jun 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > 1. This design was sent to Dr. Hal Puthoff's colleague, Scott Little; > in Austin. Scott and party built a simple version and got some pretty > dramatic results. They did find, however, that a large portion of the > output electrical energy was coming from transfer of charges on the > dielectric (plastic) portion of the machine, like an AC Wimshurst > effect. HOWEVER; the effect still exists even when one builds a version > of the machine completely out of metal. Scott verified this, as well as > I myself. Hi Nick! It's *wonderful* to see somebody who wants to do some science, rather than playing the "big important secret" game. > I give it to you, dear friends, to pick apart, prove me wrong, or > replicate at your leisure. One thing that immediately comes to my mind is the work-function voltage phenomenon that's behind thermocouples, solar cells, etc. For example, if you momentarily touch a piece of copper to a piece of iron, the pieces of metal will aquire opposite charges. This effect is very small (a volt or so), but it's the driving force behind thermocouples. If you make a circuit from wires of two different metals, one wire will become charged positively, and the other wire negatively, but no continuous current will flow. There would be a feeble e-field in the space around the two metals, as if the two wires were the plates of a capacitor, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE IN DIRECT CONTACT. Unless you had an extremely delicate electrometer-voltmeter available, you'd never realize that this effect was happening. Of course if you then HEAT one of the junctions, the voltage between the metals changes by a tiny bit at that junction, while it does not change at the other junction, and so you get a net voltage appearing around the circuit, and a current starts flowing. Yet even without any temperature differences, the two metals will aquire opposite charges. If you build a capacitor with plates of two different metals, then connect them to a load, those two different metals will have about a volt or so between them, and there will be an e-field in that capacitor's dielectric. If you then alter the capacitance, a tiny current will appear in the circuit, and your load will have a small voltage across it. This would be a good way to indirectly measure the work-function voltage difference between two metals. Obviously all of the above stuff will only occur if the two capacitor plates are made from two DIFFERENT metals. However, I suspect that only the surface of the plates is important, and therefore any differences in surface oxidation might create a similar phenomenon. If you have a way of quickly putting a metal plating on one side of your rotary capacitor, maybe you'll see a different voltage or polarity when the capacitor is reassembled and operated. I know that PC-board tinplate dip will quickly plate a copper surface. If your capacitors are steel, will the tinplate-dip work? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 10:01:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18417; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:00:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:00:40 -0700 Message-ID: <002801bfd944$5457b1a0$8a3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: dissimilar metal capacitors Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:43:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"rBiO81.0.cV4.t0GJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Obviously all of the above stuff will only occur if the two capacitor > plates are made from two DIFFERENT metals. However, I suspect that only > the surface of the plates is important, and therefore any differences in > surface oxidation might create a similar phenomenon. ***Very good question! In all of the forerunner experiments, such as the large flexible capacitors, or the Cardwell units, the plate materials were the same; such as Al foil, or plated brass for the air variables. For the rotary or vibratory VCG, I used the same metalized film for all surfaces, both rotor and stator; sputtered 200 angstroms Cr for adhesion, 2000 angstroms or so of Al, then about 100 to 200 angstroms of Cr again for protection against oxidation. it is certainly possible that there might be flaws in the filmed portions, but nominally all was the same. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 10:02:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18611; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:01:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:01:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:01:31 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: gost blaster secrecy In-Reply-To: <20000618025546.2355.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"L9zwO1.0.iY4.k1GJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Gost Blaster wrote: > > Which infos? Something is secret? Why? > > > > > To SEUS agents:: Is too late, You lost :) > > > > Not yet. > > > You know about? or you say it sarcastic? I have no idea what "SEUS agent" means. It just sounded to me like you're trying to release secrets against the wishes of "SEUS agents". But you don't seem to realize that a secret is not released if nobody believes you. If you want the release of secrets to be effective, then don't hide behind a fake name. Or, if you MUST hide yourself, then explain to us your reasons. > > If you want to blow this "capacitor" thing wide > > open, then just let > > everyone know your name and address, give out your > > phone number so other > > FREENRG-L users can talk to you realtime, and send > > us pictures of your > > flying capacitors and power supplies and > > electroplating tank. That's what > > I would do if I were you. Send fear and secrecy to > > hell, and change the > > world right now. > > > > Are you all guys police investigators? No. But I don't trust anonymous people on the internet. You are hiding your name. Why? I don't hide my name. Neither do most "fringe science" researchers. > ID's are not realy democratic stuff.. is it? I don't want your ID number, I am just suspicious because you use "gost blaster" rather than your real name. Why? Do you have a good reason for the secrecy? I'm Bill Beaty, at 7040 22nd Ave NW, Seattle WA, phone 206-781-3320 If you ask others on FREENRG-L, you'll find that most of them will give you their real name and address and phone number. Will you do the same? If not, then why not? This has nothing to do with "IDs", it has everything to do with common human decency and being a person of good character. People of good character do not use fake names unless they have a good reason. And if they have a good reason, they tell others what it is! > Famus people are prisoners to my knoledge... Who? > I can keep my self to me. thanks. > > People don't believe me because I keep secrecy? > And you think I am a lyer? Right. Exactly. If you want people to trust you, then don't hide behind a fake name. If you're afraid that bad things will happen if you make your name public, well, then the bad guys have won, since they kept you frightened and anonymous. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 12:25:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17533; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:24:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:24:10 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 15:23:21 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"5e_bf3.0.oH4.Q7IJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: VERY interesting thought experiment/ou coil THOUGHT EXPERIMENT You are on one side of a wall that has 4 wires coming thru it that are super conducting. 2 of the wires are connected to the negative terminal of a superconducting, friction free DC generator. The other 2 wires are connected to the positive terminal of the generator. The wires make up 2 separate circuits. The current in these 2 separate circuits flows in opposite directions. There is a man on the other side of the wall that has two coils. These coils are bifilar coils and are 100% flux canceling and 100% superconducting. One coil has 10 feet of wiring in it and the other coil has a wire length of 5 light seconds (distance light would travel in 5 seconds). You start to turn the generator handle with a steady increase in RPM up to 100 RPM. This takes 5 seconds. At the end of five seconds you let go of the handle and it will continue to turn because it has no drag on it from bearing friction or aerodynamic drag. The coil on the other side of the wall is superconducting and produces no back EMF because it is 100% flux canceling. The current flow is now in a steady state and the generator is also in a steady state of rotation at 100 RPM. The system is in equilibrium and will stay this way. QUESTION> You do not know what is on the other side of the wall. How would you know if the man connected up the coil that had a wire length of 10 feet or the coil with a wire length of 5 light seconds? Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 12:29:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18328; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:27:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:27:25 -0700 Message-ID: <394D2377.EA739A2E@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 15:31:03 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JyGix.0.HU4.TAIJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com William Beaty wrote: > On Sun, 18 Jun 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > > Hi Nick! It's *wonderful* to see somebody who wants to do some science, > rather than playing the "big important secret" game. Yes, I get tired of the whole "Big Brother" paranoia as well. > One thing that immediately comes to my mind is the work-function voltage > phenomenon that's behind thermocouples, solar cells, etc. For example, if > you momentarily touch a piece of copper to a piece of iron, the pieces of > metal will aquire opposite charges. This effect is very small (a volt or > so), but it's the driving force behind thermocouples. If you make a > circuit from wires of two different metals, one wire will become charged > positively, and the other wire negatively, but no continuous current will > flow. Interesting to consider whether water, with an electrolyte, wired into a circuit like a splice (in line) would exhibit the same effect. > There would be a feeble e-field in the space around the two metals, > as if the two wires were the plates of a capacitor, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE > IN DIRECT CONTACT. Unless you had an extremely delicate > electrometer-voltmeter available, you'd never realize that this effect was > happening. Of course if you then HEAT one of the junctions, the voltage > between the metals changes by a tiny bit at that junction, while it does > not change at the other junction, and so you get a net voltage appearing > around the circuit, and a current starts flowing. Faraday and Arago did experiments with heating one electrode in an electrolysis cell. Faraday found that heating the negative terminal will cause the cell to produce more gas but heating the positive electrode had no effect unless both electrodes were heated. > MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 14:18:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05335; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 14:14:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 14:14:59 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <60.4311e14.267e9586@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 17:13:42 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: NASA's Earth Power Generator To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"vSQ-T3.0.CJ1.IlJJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I've heard of this experiment and it has always puzzled me, although I haven't taken the time to look into it. For a current in a wire trailing a satellite, what is the complete electrical circuit for the current?? Does anyone know offhand? Thanks, Ken In a message dated 6/17/00 10:46:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, enki@csrlink.net writes: > HI, > Clipped the account from a PDF available on NASA's website talking about > how the Space Shuttle used a tethered satellite to generate power from > the Earth's field(s). We have the same fields down here as they used in > space. I guess they are trying the "free energy" thing too. Seems it's > not really a question of whether or not it's possible, just coming up > with the right technology... > MJ > > Part 2 demonstrates how the tethered > satellite and the Space Shuttle orbiter interact > with Earth's magnetic field to produce an > electric current. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 15:44:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22669; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 15:44:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 15:44:00 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <9d.6ec2b61.267eaa8c@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 18:43:24 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"vCIoF3.0.2Y5.m2LJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Thanks for your responses I want to thank the following for their recent input to my questions. Thanks, Butch ctgresearchlabs@btinternet.com, billb@eskimo.com, jonfli@informatics.net, richardsontim@hotmail.com, herman@antioch-college.edu, Keasy@aol.com, slavek.krepelka@sympatico.ca, markross@xyz.net, filbalony-redbeard@snet.net, slavek.krepelka@sympatico.ca, luc_lachapelle@yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 18:06:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17565; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 18:06:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 18:06:19 -0700 Message-ID: <001901bfd988$2a9ee7e0$373dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <60.4311e14.267e9586@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: NASA's Earth Power Generator Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:49:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"ucd9Q.0.CI4.B8NJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > Clipped the account from a PDF available on NASA's website talking about > > how the Space Shuttle used a tethered satellite to generate power from > > the Earth's field(s). We have the same fields down here as they used in > > space. I guess they are trying the "free energy" thing too. Seems it's > > not really a question of whether or not it's possible, just coming up > > with the right technology... What I recall about the experiment was this: A) The principle would indeed have worked at the earth's surface. However, to induce any appreciable EMF by cutting the Earth's flux, one needs to take advantage of the 100's of feet long tether, and the thousands of miles per hour speed of the shuttle through the magnetosphere. Putting a loop antenna on your car, and driving 60 mph east to west would work, but one half the loop would need to be shielded, and you might end up with micro-amps if lucky. B) I think (not positive) that the tether was a double conductor, or bifilar twin lead of some sort, with one half magnetically shielded. C) I recall that the experiment ended prematurely because plasma build up around the tether not only shorted out the current, but burned open the cable. D) I also remember getting a chuckle out of it because it was almost a verbatim copy of one of Hooper's early experiments that led him to the theory of the motional e-field. Hooper did his in an aluminum enclosure on an airplane, according to his book. And to think NASA refuses to acknowledge Hooper's work, otherwise... NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 18:42:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA27150; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 18:41:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 18:41:54 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Freenrg-L" Cc: Subject: RE: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:40:56 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"6IDIL2.0.7e6.XfNJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick. Interesting... It looks an awful lot like parametric action. Typically the relation 1) delta C/C > 4/Q is not satisifed, so when researchers try to resonate inductors with your sort of device the Q's need to be ungodly high. You mentioned a test done at the request of EarthTech; what exactly did you do? From the above equation you can determine if the device was within the theoretical limit of parametric resonance. Also, you post that the waveform changes as the capacity variation is altered. I remember positioning capacitors for antenna that were cut to produce a sin wave variation, I forget what the ratio was. Seems you could take a rotor disk, and etch the appropriate pattern onto the disk. Or any pattern you want; I'd go to lots of sectors to reduce drive speeds to reasonable values. The worst thing is square wave type switching, you experiments with switched series and parallel caps should convince you of this. I'd imagine that the limiting value of voltage is the diode reverse voltage breakdown. Does this determine polarity of the device? I'm curious how low a value of resistance you can achieve with your thin film sputtering. I agree it's very good to have that facility, I'm kinda limited to chemical and electronic plating right now... Good experiment; it will be interesting to see where you take this. K. PS: Thanx for the data regarding Bi/Mg layered material. You can't imagine how often this urban legend gets brought up on this list. Memetic viruses are difficult to kill ;^) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 20:15:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13833; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:13:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:13:23 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Nick Reiter" Cc: "Freenrg-L" Subject: RE: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 23:12:24 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <001b01bfd992$82625c00$a43dee3f@default> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"FW-Xd2.0.2O3.I_OJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick writes... ****** My experiment involved placing a 3 microhenry, and a 30 millihenry, inductor in series and parallel with the VCG. Scott's prediction was that if the alternating potentials building up were from a PG mechanism, (using the inherent stray inductance in lead wires, etc.) then the addition of substantial L would drive the raw output up or down, depending on placement. As it was, the VCG pretty well ignored the series L, and was shunted out by the parallel L. Thus, it seemed that to turn the system into a more classic parametric generator, it would have needed orders of magnitude more L. ****** Oh, you'd never have enough inductance in stray leads to get resonance. It would have to be engineered. Nevertheless, you have a time varying capacity which is a source of energy in the circuit. And you have a diode. I never tried to make such a circuit with time varying C, calculations always favored L type circuits. But that construction technique of yours is nice, perhaps a resonator is feasable. (By this I mean a circuit resonant at the double frequency) Thanks for providing the figures, I know you'd given alloy and thickness of films but I wanted to know what was possible. That's great really, very low values. ****** Nevertheless, the composition of the Mg layers I ran by EDS came back a dead ringer for the old sand casting alloy ZK60 - Mg, a few percent Zn, and a hint (sub 1%) of either thorium, zirconium, or Pb. ****** Good detective work. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 20:34:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA19407; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:34:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:34:03 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 03:34:27 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39518602.259533859@mail.midiowa.net> References: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> In-Reply-To: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA19380 Resent-Message-ID: <"EpD41.0.4l4.gIPJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick, Welcome!! On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:04:48 -0400, "Nick Reiter" wrote: > I think what broke the camel's back so to speak was this recent go-around with the Bismuth magnesium man. Frankly, I cringe whenever anyone uses those two words together anymore. I have good reason! > Back in 1996, I was one of the parties selected by Linda Howe to run analysis on a sample of the supposed Bi:Mg Roswell artifact. Being a vacuum process man, I was instantly suspicious when I first laid eyes on my sample portion. My first thought wa s "geez, this looks like the same sort of buildup I used to scrape off of water cooled shielding inside large industrial sputter coaters and e-beam systems." It is crumbly, and columnar, indicating a high epitaxial growth rate on a cold substrate. > I could go on and on. But the short opinion is that the Bismuth Magnesium artifact was originally either: > >A) An unintentional industrial residue from either a large vacuum coating process OR the Betterton-Kroll debismuthizing process used in Pb refining. This hunk of scrap was then promoted unscrupulously as a piece of crashed UFO. >B) Intentionally made by someone, again using a vacuum process, for the purpose of chewing up MASSIVE amounts of time and effort by serious UFO investigators and sincere gravity researchers. > > These opinions and my evidence to back them up were presented to the parties requesting my services. The findings were either never used, or cited out of context. It doesn't make one popular to derail someone elses gravy train. Well, now it's their problem I guess, though it just makes me mad the way good amateur scientists are led to end up spending time obsessing on something that in all likelihood is a hoax. This info should be spread far and wide. May I make a small attempt at spreading it? > My other main intent was to introduce to the group a project I have worked on since 1996. It is an effect that I believe is producing a small but demonstrative amount of electrical energy from the ZPF. It is based on rapidly varying capacitance. > To view this project report, go to the following page of a website operated by a partner and I; > >http://www.alliancelink.com/users/avalon/varicap2.htm > > I would add the following; > > 1. This design was sent to Dr. Hal Puthoff's colleague, Scott Little; in Austin. Scott and party built a simple version and got some pretty dramatic results. They did find, however, that a large portion of the output electrical energy was coming fro m transfer of charges on the dielectric (plastic) portion of the machine, like an AC Wimshurst effect. HOWEVER; the effect still exists even when one builds a version of the machine completely out of metal. Scott verified this, as well as I myself. > 2. I was also able to demonstrate to Little and Puthoff's satisfaction, by way of adding inductance into the system, that the device is NOT a parametric generator. We do note, though , that there exist several designs for parametric generators that u se a variable capacitor as the signal injection source! > > I give it to you, dear friends, to pick apart, prove me wrong, or replicate at your leisure. Very interesting. Might try some experiments. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 20:36:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21242; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:36:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:36:15 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: NASA's Earth Power Generator Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 03:36:40 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <3950628b.250455275@mail.midiowa.net> References: <60.4311e14.267e9586@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <60.4311e14.267e9586@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA21116 Resent-Message-ID: <"kRCh23.0.jB5.kKPJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 17:13:42 EDT, Keasy@aol.com wrote: >I've heard of this experiment and it has always puzzled me, although I >haven't taken the time to look into it. For a current in a wire trailing a >satellite, what is the complete electrical circuit for the current?? Does >anyone know offhand? "Space" is a conductor in the sense that electric energy can flow through it, with the sun supplying lots of ionized particles all the time. (A Coronal Mass Ejection boosts the number of ionized particles -- and it's magnetic field -- appreciably.) Put a simple piece of wire in this stream of ionized particles and you can derive a rather large amount of energy (thousands of Volts at hundreds of Amps, depending on the size of the wire). NASA scientists thought the voltage could be hundreds of Volts, and maybe an Amp or two. Other, non-NASA scientists (including moi) warned them that to assume such a low power could be dangerous. It was. Between Jupiter and it's closest large moon (Io?) there's an electric current estimated at trillions of Amps. It goes one way between Jupiter and Io(?) with the return path through the space surrounding Jupiter. Why there's a current and what produces it has a lot of people guessing. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 20:50:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24595; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <394D45B8.8FDDBCDE@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 16:57:12 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter References: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NajtJ1.0.B06.BXPJv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Heya Nick, saw that, and it does look intresting but I have a few concerns... How do you know the small amount of current being generated is not from magnetic impurities in the air-gap caps disks? If some of the plates are slightly magnetic, then as other plates move through their stray fields, they would cut through the lines of force, and cause a small electrical current. Basically the whole thing would act as a highly inefficient conventional generator. Maybe finding a highly non magnetic alloy to make the device from? The WHOLE device would need to be made from such a material to rule out magnetic contamination. NB, capacitors generating charge when stressed or dropped ( drop a cap on the ground sometime, you'll see they can develop charge. I did this myself a few times ). The reason why the caps charge when they are flexed/dropped comes from the same idea of rubbing silk on a amber rod. The plates move against the dielectric inside, causing charge seperation when they are dropped/bent/etc. It has nothing to do with Casmir forces or ZPE. Just a very inefficient conversion of mechanical work into electricity. Still you may have something wrt the rotating air gap caps. Daniel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 21:32:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA32058; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:31:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:31:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000618213449.2e877cb2@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:34:49 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: NASA's Earth Power Generator In-Reply-To: <60.4311e14.267e9586@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"O5Bzu.0.oq7.d8QJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken, At 05:13 PM 06/18/00 EDT, you wrote: >I've heard of this experiment and it has always puzzled me, although I >haven't taken the time to look into it. For a current in a wire trailing a >satellite, what is the complete electrical circuit for the current?? Does >anyone know offhand? Perhaps there was an AC component (nonuniform fields) and the wire acted like a 1/4 wave or other length antenna? I don't know the ion density there for any space return DC currents, othewise the wire would just have a potential between its ends. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 21:59:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04521; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:58:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:58:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000618220135.2687d40c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:01:35 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter In-Reply-To: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5plWg1.0.Y61.BYQJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick, At 10:04 AM 06/18/00 -0400, you wrote: > My other main intent was to introduce to the group a project I have worked on since 1996. It is an effect that I believe is producing a small but demonstrative amount of electrical energy from the ZPF. It is based on rapidly varying capacitance. > To view this project report, go to the following page of a website operated by a partner and I; > >http://www.alliancelink.com/users/avalon/varicap2.htm > This looks very interesting, and the sector rotating variable capacitors remind me of a "field mill" to detect tha ambient E field. How can you (or do you desire to) eliminate friction generated fields from your plastic wound capacitors?- the same effect as in audio coax cables. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 22:18:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA08301; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:17:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:17:56 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 01:17:10 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: VERY interesting thought experiment/ou coil To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"jMQD_1.0.Y12.3qQJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/18/00 12:30:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: > > THOUGHT EXPERIMENT > You are on one side of a wall that has 4 wires coming thru it that are > super > conducting. 2 of the wires are connected to the negative terminal of a > superconducting, friction free DC generator. The other 2 wires are connected > > to the positive terminal of the generator. The wires make up 2 separate > circuits. The current in these 2 separate circuits flows in opposite > directions. > There is a man on the other side of the wall that has two coils. These > coils > are bifilar coils and are 100% flux canceling and 100% superconducting. One > coil has 10 feet of wiring in it and the other coil has a wire length of 5 > light seconds (distance light would travel in 5 seconds). > You start to turn the generator handle with a steady increase in RPM up to > 100 RPM. This takes 5 seconds. > At the end of five seconds you let go of the handle and it will continue to > > turn because it has no drag on it from bearing friction or aerodynamic drag. > > The coil on the other side of the wall is superconducting and produces no > back EMF because it is 100% flux canceling. The current flow is now in a > steady state and the generator is also in a steady state of rotation at 100 > RPM. The system is in equilibrium and will stay this way. > QUESTION> You do not know what is on the other side of the wall. How would > you know if the man connected up the coil that had a wire length of 10 feet > or the coil with a wire length of 5 light seconds? > Thanks, Butch, First, I think there may be some problems with the way the experiment is set up. If everything is superconducting and you put energy into the generator, where does (can) the energy go? But to answer the question, I think the coils -- the long one in particular-- would act as transmission lines. So in the case of the short coil the current would increase immediately (nanoseconds delay) as the generator provides a voltage, and the load looks like a superconducting short. The 5 light second coil, on the other hand, would look like an impedance of the characteristic impedance of the transmission line, and the current for the first few seconds would be v(t)/z, where v(t) is the generator voltage, and z is the characteristic impedance. You should definitely be able to tell which is connected. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 18 23:22:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19046; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 23:21:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 23:21:51 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 02:21:16 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"eFlmE3.0.Rf4._lRJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: to ken, [FG]: VERY interesting thought In a message dated 6/19/00 12:19:22 AM Central Daylight Time, Keasy@aol.com writes: > The 5 light second coil, on the other hand, would look like an > impedance of the characteristic impedance of the transmission line, Ken, Impedance is a value made up of what properties in a current carring wire? (Inductance,etc.?) Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 03:29:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA17988; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 03:29:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 03:29:04 -0700 Message-ID: <001701bfd9d6$c6f46f40$1d3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> <394D45B8.8FDDBCDE@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 06:11:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"oFrk-2.0.uO4.mNVJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel" To: Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter > > Heya Nick, saw that, and it does look intresting but I have a few > concerns... > > How do you know the small amount of current being generated is not from > magnetic impurities in the air-gap caps disks? > > If some of the plates are slightly magnetic, then as other plates move > through their stray fields, they would cut through the lines of force, > and cause a small electrical current. Basically the whole thing would > act as a highly inefficient conventional generator. Maybe finding a > highly non magnetic alloy to make the device from? The WHOLE device > would need to be made from such a material to rule out magnetic > contamination. ****** Good point. However I ruled this out for three reasons: 1. I used Cr and Al as my metals, both are about as non-magnetic as I could choose. 2. I intentionally introduced external fields from large magnets at a variety of angles. Effect was minimal or nil. 3. You can place the simple Cardwell variable cap version inside of a steel pipe, and get no difference in effect. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 03:34:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA19518; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 03:34:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 03:34:38 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01bfd9d7$8e3b24e0$1d3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <3.0.6.16.20000618220135.2687d40c@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 06:17:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"AA-dH2.0.tm4.zSVJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > This looks very interesting, and the sector rotating variable capacitors > remind me of a "field mill" to detect tha ambient E field. **** Yes, see the one reference in my paper's reference section. I looked into that; there are similarities. However, the VCG works fine even when shielded from geo-electric or ambient e- fields. > How can you (or do you desire to) eliminate friction generated fields from > your plastic wound capacitors?- the same effect as in audio coax cables. ***** This was similar to a point EarthTech made. I point out that if one builds the system from all or nearly all metal, the artifact of charge transfer is reduced, but the core effect easily remains. BTW - The bridge rectifier at the output is only for it's usual purpose. Without it, you still get an AC output from the VCG. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 05:54:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07207; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 05:54:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 05:54:00 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01bfd9ed$c68450e0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000616233201.23261.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 08:56:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"GTfpg2.0.Um1.eVXJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Where can you get the salts and the electroplating kits ----- Original Message ----- From: Gost Blaster To: Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-capacitor: "C" goes public > --- Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Gost - > > > > How do you make the bismuth salt solution? Just > > start electrolysing > > bismuth in a salt water electrolyte? > > > > > > Electroplating method Isn't very familiar. > > Electrolytic industrial processes for metals include > the production of metals themselves from their > compounds, which is called the electrowinning of > metals; the electrolytic purification of metals; and > the deposition or electroplating of metals on > conducting surfaces. In all three types of > electrolytic process, the reactions are reduction of > ions of the metal in solution in some carefully > selected electrolyte. > The electrowinning of metals, or the production of > metals from their compounds, is the oldest industrial > electrolytic process. Sodium metal was first prepared > in 1807 by the English chemist Humphrey Davy, who > obtained it using electrolysis of molten sodium > hydroxide. Several industrially important metals (the > active metals which react with water) are produced > commercially today by electrolysis of molten SALTS. > Electrowinning of Magnesium is also a major industrial > process, and is the most commonly used industrial > process for magnesium production although other > methods such as chemical reduction of magnesium > compounds at high temperatures with carbon, calcium > carbide, or ferrosilicon have been used. > The raw material for magnesium production is well > brines or more commonly seawater, which is about 0.13% > magnesium by mass. The Mg2+ ion is precipitated from > seawater by addition of CaO (lime), produced by > calcining (strong heating) of CaCO3 (limestone or > oyster shells). The insoluble Mg(OH)2 is removed by > filtration. Acidification of a slurry of this solid > and an aqueous MgCl2 solution with HCl converts the > Mg(OH)2 to soluble MgCl2, which is recovered as solid > MgCl2 by evaporation. This is dried to the hydrate > MgCl2.1.5H2O, which is used as the feedstock to an > electrolytic cell. The cell electrolyte is a molten > mixture containing about 25% MgCl2 - 15% CaCl2 - 60% > NaCl, and the cell is operated between 700oC and > 750oC. The cell electrolytic reaction is MgCl2 --> > Mg(l) + Cl2(g). The magnesium produced is about 99.9% > pure as it comes from the cell, since neither sodium > nor calcium is reducible more easily than is > magnesium. The chlorine produced in the cell is > converted to HCl for use in the acidification process > by reaction with natural gas and steam or in a > hydrogen/chlorine burner. > > Both salts Bi/Mg are available from manufacturers. > You can get an appropriate electroplating kit, that > includes power supply, electrodes, etc. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 07:15:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA24039; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 07:14:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 07:14:35 -0700 From: "Phillip Brost" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: "C" and "S" messages Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:09:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"nzp3z1.0.Wt5.BhYJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The most remarkable thing in these letters from "S" is how his language skills seem to get better with every post. In the second letter he does not now the term "aquarium" or "scale" but in later post his grasp of terminology and slang improve dramatically (read post Mar, 21). While I would love for the device to work, based on his letters and the surrounding evidence this seems to be hoax. If this not then I cant figure out why he refuses to comment to any of the post discussing this issue. P.S. If this guy does subscribe to the list is there anyway to trace back the E-mails to him. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 07:31:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29566; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 07:30:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 07:30:48 -0700 From: "Stefano Innocenti" To: "freenrg-l" Subject: Re: [FG]: NASA's Earth Power Generator Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:30:18 +0200 Message-ID: <01bfd9fa$e48906a0$3900fd80@zio-stefo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"x6Ytc1.0.pD7.NwYJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From the site of Italian Space Agency (www.asi.it): TETHERED SATELLITE SYSTEM (TSS) Cooperative program with NASA for a reusable multi-disciplinary facility to conduct space experiments in Earth orbit. The system consists of a satellite, a conductive tether (approx. 20 km long) and a deployer in the Shuttle's cargo bay. With the first TSS mission, the first Italian Astronaut Franco Malerba flew as Payload Specialist in 1992. A second mission, TSS-1R, flew in February 1996. Two Italian astronauts were on-board: Umberto Guidoni of the Italian Space Agency as Payload Specialist and Maurizio Cheli of the European Space Agency as Mission Specialist. Both missions confirmed the validation of the system; moreover the data gathered during the second mission confirmed the possibility to use the system for the conversion of orbital energy in electrical energy. Future applications also connected with the International Space Station are under study. ciao -------------------------Stefano Innocenti --------------------------- http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia http://utenti.tripod.it/missilistica -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Dean T. Miller A: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Data: lunedì 19 giugno 2000 5.36 Oggetto: Re: [FG]: NASA's Earth Power Generator >On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 17:13:42 EDT, Keasy@aol.com wrote: > >>I've heard of this experiment and it has always puzzled me, although I >>haven't taken the time to look into it. For a current in a wire trailing a >>satellite, what is the complete electrical circuit for the current?? Does >>anyone know offhand? > >"Space" is a conductor in the sense that electric energy can flow >through it, with the sun supplying lots of ionized particles all the >time. (A Coronal Mass Ejection boosts the number of ionized particles >-- and it's magnetic field -- appreciably.) > >Put a simple piece of wire in this stream of ionized particles and you >can derive a rather large amount of energy (thousands of Volts at >hundreds of Amps, depending on the size of the wire). > >NASA scientists thought the voltage could be hundreds of Volts, and >maybe an Amp or two. Other, non-NASA scientists (including moi) >warned them that to assume such a low power could be dangerous. It >was. > >Between Jupiter and it's closest large moon (Io?) there's an electric >current estimated at trillions of Amps. It goes one way between >Jupiter and Io(?) with the return path through the space surrounding >Jupiter. Why there's a current and what produces it has a lot of >people guessing. > > >-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 10:06:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19120; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:05:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:05:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000619100857.1e3f91b6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:08:57 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: VERY interesting thought experiment/ou coil In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"AmPWF.0.fg4.rBbJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken, Butch, At 01:17 AM 06/19/00 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 6/18/00 12:30:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >HLafonte@aol.com writes: > >> >> THOUGHT EXPERIMENT >> You are on one side of a wall that has 4 wires coming thru it that are >> super >> conducting. 2 of the wires are connected to the negative terminal of a >> superconducting, friction free DC generator. The other 2 wires are >connected >> QUESTION> You do not know what is on the other side of the wall. How >would >> you know if the man connected up the coil that had a wire length of 10 >feet >> or the coil with a wire length of 5 light seconds? >> Thanks, >Butch, > First, I think there may be some problems with the way the experiment is >set up. If everything is superconducting and you put energy into the >generator, where does (can) the energy go? I think it will be returned as reflected power in a delayed time, at least that which isn't radiated. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 12:33:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02588; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:33:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:33:08 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:32:40 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"cNsnb2.0.Ee.qLdJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Definition of impedance, my device does not have it In an RL circuit (one that has inductance and resistance), both the resistance and the inductive reactance oppose the current flow. Their combined effect is called the impedance (Z) of the circuit. My device in my thought experiment has no impedance. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 12:37:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05575; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:36:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:36:36 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <97.6ee36e0.267fd015@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:35:49 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: to ken, [FG]: VERY interesting thought To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"p9r78.0.0N1.3PdJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/18/00 11:24:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: > Ken, > Impedance is a value made up of what properties in a current carring wire? > (Inductance,etc.?) > Butch Butch, For your case, a pair of lossless wires, if the inductance of the wires is L per unit length and the capacitance between the wires is C per unit length, then the characteristic impedance of the line, usually called Z, is Sqrt(L/C). Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 13:00:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14664; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:59:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:59:30 -0700 Message-ID: <20000619195853.58555.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.184.147] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: "C" and "S" messages Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:58:53 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"g2kfp2.0.wa3.YkdJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Just testing to see if I can make it appear I'm living in an Eastern European Time Zone. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 14:01:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06838; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:00:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:00:38 -0700 Message-ID: <013801bfda31$c4149880$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000613123016.50527.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:03:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"x80m22.0.lg1.rdeJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In Physics The Law of Entropy states that any system left to itself will descend from a higher ordered state to a lower ordered state such as uranium 238 will decay to uranium 235 but never the other way around. ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Cain To: Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect > > > > >From: "Anna M*" > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: , > >Subject: [FG]: Re: Cause and effect > >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:11:04 -0700 > > > >What is entropy? > >If you can answer this question than you can answer the others too. > >Anna > > > I'm assuming this is a retorical question, if not: > > Entropy is a misguided belief that there is a hypothetical tendency for all > matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert > uniformity. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 14:23:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14222; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:22:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:22:40 -0700 Message-ID: <014301bfda34$d8941080$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <004b01bfd53b$27886460$96d2989e@dave> Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:25:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"NMswR1.0.2U3.VyeJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Lets cut to the basics since we now know about cloning and even before, one cell has all the information to make an entire human being. This requires pretty incredible design engineering even more incredible than a snicker's wrapper. Well if we found just a part of a snickers wrapper on mars for instance we would KNOW that it was put there by a human because it was designed. But for some stupid reason we can't see design in the most incredible design in the universe -- the human cell. We who are so "educated" and "enlightened" and so very scientific can't create life with intent and it was supposed to happen by "chance," NO WAY. You have to have more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in creation. To get a real brain dump check out why Darwin even came up with evolution. It was because He was trying to eliminate any moral restrictions on his lifestyle which was promiscuous to say the least. He himself denied evolution before he died. It is a preposterous stretch of "scientific" logic that it has survived even with the continual propping up of decadent governments and a poor class of scientists that are afraid to buck the status quo. Evolution is only falling apart further every year anyway with every passing scientific discovery and with every of all things fossil finds. I would love to continue this discussion as I am a scientist. I would welcome any level of scientist. All of the world's great scientists believed in God. Einstein, Faraday, Newton, Werner Von Braun, in fact I don't think you could name a world class scientist that does not believe in God. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Callaghan To: Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:01 AM Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect > Hi Matthew > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Demon Killah" > > > foot across. I must conclude that the universe > was caused by an uncaused > > cause. > ***We are a long way from 'knowing' how the > universe was created, if at all. > > > it either. Look at all the complex things that > have to happen to form > >dna. Protein itself is incredibly complex and you > need about fifty diferent > > types of proteins to form into a double helix in > a complex pattern and thern > > just look at the complexity of a cell. How can > blind chance create something > > as amazing and unique as that. Anything beyond > one chance in 10-14 (10 to > > the power of 14) is impossible. Then chances of > a single cell being created > > is far beyond that number. > > ***The fifty or so amino acids (proteins) you > mention are common throughout the universe. It is > easy to look at a complex system such as DNA and > conclude that it could not be created by blind > chance. Richard Dawkins, in his book 'Climbing > Mount Improbable', provides excellent insights > into how complex life systems came into being. > > ***Proteins can perform just about any chemical > process in the right conditions. I find the > unknown > path from self replicating protein to cell based > 'organism' easier to swallow than any deity based > theory. DNA is, in essence, the most successful > self-replicating protein, achieving this by > engineering huge 'vehicles' to propogate itself. > > ***Would you call any of the known (simple) > self replicating proteins life? If not, why? > You could say that the self replicating protein is > a higher form of life than a virus, because a > virus > cannot self-replicate without a host. > > Best regards > David Callaghan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 14:55:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23871; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:54:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:54:48 -0700 Message-ID: <394E96BD.75ACEF5C@info2000.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:55:09 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, electret function ! References: <200006181356.JAA28552@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NB44S3.0.tq5.dQfJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Knuke, Any idea how high a voltage that you can charde an acrylic electret to? Thanks, Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 15:00:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26113; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:59:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:59:31 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <7d.673471a.267ff19a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:58:50 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"xMIOQ3.0.rN6.3VfJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results For those of you looking at magnetic effects I have some toroid results that may be of interest. If you take a commercial toroidal tansformer and apply a dc current to the primary you expect the B field to be confined to the core. There is some fringing, but for the most part it is. Suppose you bring a permanent magnet to a fixed location near the transformer. You might expect the dc current in the transformer to have little effect on either the field around the magnet or the force between the transformer and the magnet. That is not the case. As the current in the transformer is increased the transformer begins to become "invisible" to the magnet: the force between the two decreases and the field from the magnet starts to go to its free space value. This appears to not be a transformer saturation effect; it begins to occur for fairly small current values. If the the transformer current/field relationship were independent of the position of the magnet an overunity device would be straightforward (given those results). Even if they are not independent, the effect might be useful in some cases, so I decided to post the result. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 15:09:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30662; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:08:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:08:58 -0700 Message-ID: <394E9A0C.72E48C39@info2000.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:09:16 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UGcFf3.0._U7.vdfJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill, If you replaced the dielectric between the two dissimilar plates with an electrolyte and kept the electrolyte supplied with ions, would you have a battery? Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 16:10:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA17648; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:10:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:10:02 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <394E55C0.B6D18BA8@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:17:52 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter References: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> <394D45B8.8FDDBCDE@worldnet.att.net> <001701bfd9d6$c6f46f40$1d3dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GpYz1.0.aJ4.9XgJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > ****** Good point. However I ruled this out for three reasons: > > 1. I used Cr and Al as my metals, both are about as non-magnetic as I could > choose. > 2. I intentionally introduced external fields from large magnets at a > variety of angles. Effect was minimal or nil. > 3. You can place the simple Cardwell variable cap version inside of a steel > pipe, and get no difference in effect. > > NR Sounds good enough for now.... I'm satisified. Besides, the potentials you are developing seem rather high for what would be generated by stray fields.... To rule out spare fields from the motor driving it, you could also drive it via bicycle wheel, IE, human power of some kind... ;) Just another data point to weed out spurious noise... <:) Lets assume it's the casmir effect. How could we extract more energy? Maybe charge the cap plates and then rotate them? Since capacitence varies with the rotation angle, perhaps lock step 2 devices so as one attains it's minimum capacitence, the other attains the max. See if we see any extraneous pumping in this systm as charge cycles between VCGs? Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 16:26:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA22206; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:25:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:25:35 -0700 Message-ID: <394EAADE.3807E222@harti.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:21:02 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Michael T Huffman Subject: Re: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, electret function ! References: <200006181356.JAA28552@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kACd4.0.tQ5.hlgJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Michael, how big were your acrylic plates and the electrodes on them and what permanent DC voltage did they give after the cooling ?? Please let us know. Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. Michael T Huffman schrieb: > > Stefan writes: > >I guess we now need to find good materials for electrets to build ! > >Think about it. > > > >Hope this clears up some mystery also for you ! > > > >Regards, Stefan. > > Hi Stefan, > > I've read that acrylic plates can make good electret material, and I can say > from my own experience that they are both dirt cheap and very easy to work > with. The process for making an electret, as I understand it, is that you > take an acrylic plate and sandwich it between two metal plates that are > electrodes. You heat the sandwhich up to the "plasticity point" of the > acrylic, which is just below 160 degree Fahrenheit, and then you charge the > electrode plates with DC. The voltage and length of time that you charge > them, I don't know, but we could find out. The charge evidently warps the > polymers into the right shape, and basically turns the acrylic plate into a > permanent magnet. You let it the acrylic cool while continuing to charge > it, and it will retain the magnetic property after the electrodes are removed. > > I haven't done this myself, and the decription above is not perfect, but > from I've read, this is something that is well within the means of most of > the builders in this group. > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 16:37:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27088; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:37:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:37:20 -0700 From: Fucian@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:36:37 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, knuke@lcia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"YBGBq2.0.5d6.mwgJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: ION RAY GUN--please help Hi all,Im new to the list and need help on building an ion ray gun for pranks and stuff.I think I know how to start.Its a high vltage transformer driving a cascade.Now I heard I need a high voltage resister of 200megs for anti-corona purposes right before the needle?Is this right?Could I use a 500meg instead?Also,it needs to be grounded.can I be the ground?Can I use a TV tripiler instead of a self-built multiplier? Does anyone know where to get parts?Can I use any value for capsthanks, matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 17:09:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04678; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:08:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:08:27 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: "C" and "S" messages Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:07:30 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20000619195853.58555.qmail@hotmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"zJ9Kf1.0._81.xNhJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It's quite trivial to Telnet to the SMTP server of your target and type in whatever you want, no authentication is done on mail. Hence the interest in digital sig's on email. I've done this for prank purposes, sending lacivious email to my friends from Bill_clinton@whitehouse.gov. Anyone wishing to fake their location, name, whatever could do so. However, the address itself has to be good as Bill was able to mail back to it. I'd track down the ISP that hosts the address, from that you can determine it's location. Of course, this says nothing about where the individual is. Email is vaporous. As to whether the material is a prank; if it is so then the prankster would have signed up with the list to watch the results. Bill has the list, I would start there. K. -----Original Message----- From: Colin Cain [mailto:nosferado@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:59 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: "C" and "S" messages Just testing to see if I can make it appear I'm living in an Eastern European Time Zone. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 17:30:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10947; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:29:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:29:58 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01bfda4c$3ea47c40$673dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> <394D45B8.8FDDBCDE@worldnet.att.net> <001701bfd9d6$c6f46f40$1d3dee3f@default> <394E55C0.B6D18BA8@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Improving the VCG Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:12:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"IOFKC.0.rg2.5ihJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel" To: Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter > To rule out spare fields from the motor driving it, you could also > drive it via bicycle wheel, IE, human power of some kind... ;) ***** Indeed. One can take the motor off of the multi-disc VCG, and give it a good twirl by hand (with or without a rubber glove for insulation), and you get a good output. I have fancied that even if the whole issue never proceeds much further, it would be a good science fair project to drive with a wind turbine. > > > Lets assume it's the casmir effect. How could we extract more energy? ***** It would seem at that point to be a matter for good engineering and materials. Larger, closer metallic plane surfaces, rotated faster. Maybe using air hockey - like flow ports to keep metal plane members a few tens of microns apart. Another trick I used was to texture the surfaces to be metalized, gleaning greater surface areas and capacitance. I also envision a compressive vibratory generator, composed of many metal filmed layers of a squeezable dielectric, pulsed with ultrasonic transducers. Squeezin' the ZPF out of it, so to speak. > devices so as one attains it's minimum capacitence, the other attains > the max. See if we see any extraneous pumping in this systm as charge > cycles between VCGs? > ****** Quite likely. One could certainly deposit charges on segments; I don't see any reason they wouldn't be additive. George Hathaway in Toronto demonstrated that you could tandem homopolar generator discs for additive EMF. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 18:00:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21309; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:59:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:59:58 -0700 Message-ID: <383190297.961462792238.JavaMail.root@web312-mc.mail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:59:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Doggiedoor Doomsday To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: ION RAY GUN--please help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 12.73.27.114 Resent-Message-ID: <"l75i-3.0.lC5.D8iJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Matt, I've been meaning to build one too, but have been too busy with transmitters. There are plans and kits at Information Unlimited: http://www.amazing1.com/voltage2.htm I've bought other kits and books from them before, and they do a good job of shipping quickly. P.S. Even with low current, I don't think you being the ground of the circuit is a good idea. Remember to keep one hand in your pocket and don't wear metal. Be careful where you aim it when you build it. Sincerely, Doggiedoor Doomsday ------Original Message------ From: Fucian@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, knuke@lcia.com Sent: June 19, 2000 11:36:37 PM GMT Subject: [FG]: ION RAY GUN--please help Hi all,Im new to the list and need help on building an ion ray gun for pranks and stuff.I think I know how to start.Its a high vltage transformer driving a cascade.Now I heard I need a high voltage resister of 200megs for anti-corona purposes right before the needle?Is this right?Could I use a 500meg instead?Also,it needs to be grounded.can I be the ground?Can I use a TV tripiler instead of a self-built multiplier? Does anyone know where to get parts?Can I use any value for capsthanks, matt ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 18:04:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23648; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:04:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:04:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000619180616.2e3fcf40@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:06:16 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results In-Reply-To: <7d.673471a.267ff19a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ii7SI3.0.Mn5.PCiJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken and all, At 05:58 PM 06/19/00 EDT, you wrote: > For those of you looking at magnetic effects I have some toroid results >that may be of interest. > If you take a commercial toroidal tansformer and apply a dc current to the >primary you expect the B field to be confined to the core. There is some >fringing, but for the most part it is. Suppose you bring a permanent magnet >to a fixed location near the transformer. You might expect the dc current >in the transformer to have little effect on either the field around the >magnet or the force between the transformer and the magnet. > That is not the case. As the current in the transformer is increased the >transformer begins to become "invisible" to the magnet: the force between >the two decreases and the field from the magnet starts to go to its free >space value. This appears to not be a transformer saturation effect; it >begins to occur for fairly small current values. Why do you not think it is a saturation effect (other than at low currents)? I know for DC you are not really concerned with saturation in that the current is dependent on resistance only. In my tests I have powered another winding on the toroid with AC voltage and monitored the current waveform for saturation effects. I would have to see a significant current change to notice a change in force on a close permanent magnet. Do you have any more info on the transformer core material? I have used both high mu ferrite toroids and silicon steel transformer cores. I would also like to try a variable transformer core, but the ones with burned out windings are sold in a surplus store at the same very high prices as the good ones. The core material info. would be useful to see if there were more than one effect going on. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 18:04:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23607; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:04:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:04:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000619175118.2e3f83c6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:51:18 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Definition of impedance, my device does not have it In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"k7h4Z.0.fm5.MCiJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch, At 03:32 PM 06/19/00 EDT, you wrote: >In an RL circuit (one that has inductance and resistance), both the >resistance and the inductive reactance oppose the current flow. Their >combined effect is called the impedance (Z) of the circuit. >My device in my thought experiment has no impedance. Your device has no R, but it is a LC circuit, as Ken also stated. A bifilar circuit cancels the magnetic field away from the pair, but NOT between them. This is where the inductance comes from. The superconducting case approaches the ideal textbook case of a lossless parallel wire transmission line, in your case with a short circuit termination. -Dave. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 18:20:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29753; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:19:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:19:36 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:19:31 -0400 Message-Id: <200006200119.VAA16510@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, electret function ! Resent-Message-ID: <"YQcFr3.0.oG7.dQiJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stephan writes: >Hi Michael, > >how big were your acrylic plates and the electrodes >on them and what permanent DC voltage did they give >after the cooling ?? > >Please let us know. >Thanks ! > >Regards, Stefan. > > >Michael T Huffman schrieb: >> >> Stefan writes: >> >I guess we now need to find good materials for electrets to build ! >> >Think about it. >> > >> >Hope this clears up some mystery also for you ! >> > >> >Regards, Stefan. >> >> Hi Stefan, >> >> I've read that acrylic plates can make good electret material, and I can say >> from my own experience that they are both dirt cheap and very easy to work >> with. The process for making an electret, as I understand it, is that you >> take an acrylic plate and sandwich it between two metal plates that are >> electrodes. You heat the sandwhich up to the "plasticity point" of the >> acrylic, which is just below 160 degree Fahrenheit, and then you charge the >> electrode plates with DC. The voltage and length of time that you charge >> them, I don't know, but we could find out. The charge evidently warps the >> polymers into the right shape, and basically turns the acrylic plate into a >> permanent magnet. You let it the acrylic cool while continuing to charge >> it, and it will retain the magnetic property after the electrodes are removed. >> >> I haven't done this myself, and the decription above is not perfect, but >> from I've read, this is something that is well within the means of most of >> the builders in this group. >> >> Knuke Hi Stephan, As I said in my original post (see above), I have not made one. The experience that I have with acrylic plates comes from making the prototypes of my own cavitation device. Fred Sparber posted an URL to a homebrew guy that gave the basic info on electret formation, but the guy just laid out a bare minimum of info. He said that he had the exact recipe up on the web, and someone wiped it, and he was just reconstructing the info from memory. The thing about it is that acrylic is so cheap that it would not take much to experiment with it until you found out. In other words, you could start out with one voltage, and if it didn't short out the plates, then double it until it shorted them out or you get a breakdown voltage for that thickness of acrylic. Of course, fusing your power supply output would be a wise thing for when it did eventually cause an arcthrough. ;) I'll bet though that someone has exact the info on the web somewhere, if you weren't into the experimentation rout. I've got stacks of acrylic plates that are 1/8" thick by 6"x6" that I have left over from my cavitation prototypes, but I don't have any HV power supplies, and am kind of stuck in a weird place at the moment, so for me, it will have to wait. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 18:30:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01248; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:29:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:29:46 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:29:42 -0400 Message-Id: <200006200129.VAA20927@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Resent-Message-ID: <"Uk1Hm2.0.LJ.AaiJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Electrets Ahoy! Well, you are in luck here, sort of... I found the URL to this webpage, but to be quite honest, there is not enough info on it to make one without experimenting a bit. It does explain the basics, though, and more searching might find some more complete results. Let us know if you find something else. Thanks, http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/electret.htm Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 19:32:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22669; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:32:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:32:30 -0700 Message-ID: <005901bfda5f$64abeb40$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <004b01bfd53b$27886460$96d2989e@dave> <014301bfda34$d8941080$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 03:29:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"xQgro2.0.zX5.zUjJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Hi Sam This is OT so I'll keep this short. What statements recorded from, for example, Einstein, would lead you to believe that he believed in God? Best regards David Callaghan ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Garza > All of the world's great scientists believed in God. Einstein, > Faraday, Newton, Werner Von Braun, in fact I don't think you could name a > world class scientist that does not believe in God. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 19:53:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29907; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:53:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:53:35 -0700 From: Fucian@aol.com Message-ID: <6.78e3b81.26803677@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:52:39 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"vw_IH2.0.CJ7.kojJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I think a person who denies God denies common sense and accepts ignorance for God could only be the creator.Evolution is no more than a stupid religion that cant be proven.our bodies are far too complex to have evolved.A great scientist could see it by looking at the world we live in. just my 2 cents, matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 21:24:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24892; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:24:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:24:15 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:23:52 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"6R2Hb.0.r46.k7lJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave and all, > > Why do you not think it is a saturation effect (other than at low > currents)? I know for DC you are not really concerned with saturation in > that the current is dependent on resistance only. I measured the decrease in permanent magnet field with toroid current (everything fixed, magnet near toroid) and the decrease began with low currents and was almost linear. That is the reason I think it may not be a saturation effect. > In my tests I have powered another winding on the toroid with AC voltage > and monitored the current waveform for saturation effects. I would have to > see a significant current change to notice a change in force on a close > permanent magnet. I doubt if the force change would be noticeable at low currents except with a sensitive scale. But due to the field change, which is a little easier to measure, I think there is a force change also. (In earlier tests I did measure the force changes, but the current levels were higher ) > Do you have any more info on the transformer core material? I have used > both high mu ferrite toroids and silicon steel transformer cores. I would > also like to try a variable transformer core, but the ones with burned out > windings are sold in a surplus store at the same very high prices as the > good ones. Unfortunately, I do not know the core material. I have tried two different ones, from different manufacturers, with similiar results. > > The core material info. would be useful to see if there were more than one > effect going on. I agree, more than one effect could be going on ----- > -Dave > Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 21:41:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA29070; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:40:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:40:38 -0700 Message-ID: <00bc01bfda71$8246c960$82d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:39:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BFDA4F.FAAEE260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Xpu_s.0.667.5NlJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BFDA4F.FAAEE260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry my reply took so long. The G-forces would kill you if they = were to great, wouldn't they? -----Original Message----- From: Norm Silliman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! From: Chris O'Barr Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:30 AM Does anyone know how to do the calculations to find out how long = it would take a man to accelerate to light speed without being killed? = I'm just curious... =20 How about one hundred million years. =20 Why do you think that acceleration will kill you? =20 Norm ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BFDA4F.FAAEE260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Sorry my reply took so long. The = G-forces=20 would kill you if they were to great, wouldn't they?
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Norm Silliman <silliman@mindsync.com>
To:=20 freenrg-l@eskimo.com = <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [FG]: light=20 speed!

From: Chris O'Barr <paradis2@peganet.com>
D= ate:=20 Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:30 AM

    Does anyone know how to do = the=20 calculations to find out how long it would take a man to accelerate = to light=20 speed without being killed? I'm just curious...
 
How about one hundred million = years.
 
Why do you think that acceleration will kill=20 you?
 
Norm
------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BFDA4F.FAAEE260-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 21:42:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30822; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:41:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:41:47 -0700 Message-ID: <00c301bfda71$a9f49000$82d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:40:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"VQK8g2.0.uU7.8OlJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thank you Mr. Math person. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Keasy@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! >In a message dated 6/17/00 7:32:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >paradis2@peganet.com writes: > >> Does anyone know how to do the calculations to find out how long it >would >> take a man to accelerate to light speed without being killed? I'm just >> curious... >> > Slight problem here -- a man can't accelerate to light speed because as he >gets close the force required to accelerate him further becomes infinite. >But IF YOU IGNORE THAT LITTLE DETAIL the calculation is very simple. V = A x >T , where V = c = 3 x 10^8 , A = 9.8g, where g is the number of g's a man >can tolerate, and T is the time in seconds. So for 1 g the time is 354.3 >days, (if I didn't make a math error). For more g's divide the time by the >number of g's. > > Ken > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 21:54:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03229; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:53:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:53:48 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:53:08 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrets To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"5Kx022.0.Lo.RZlJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/19/00 6:30:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, knuke@lcia.com writes: > Well, you are in luck here, sort of... I found the URL to this webpage, but > to be quite honest, there is not enough info on it to make one without > experimenting a bit. It does explain the basics, though, and more searching > might find some more complete results. Let us know if you find something > else. Thanks, > > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/electret.htm > > Knuke Just wondering, has anyone ever seen electrets for sale (other than microphones)? I assume they lose their charge fairly quickly, but if so couldn't they be recharged with a reasonable procedure, like remagnetizing a poor magnet? Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 22:22:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11644; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:22:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:22:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000619215808.2ae7bf0e@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:58:08 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, electret function ! In-Reply-To: <394EAADE.3807E222@harti.com> References: <200006181356.JAA28552@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eK11f3.0.mr2.wzlJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan, At 01:21 AM 06/20/00 +0200, you wrote: >how big were your acrylic plates and the electrodes >on them and what permanent DC voltage did they give >after the cooling ?? I found a 1969 article (Popular Electronics, March 1969) that said carnauba wax was an early electret material. It could be poled at 20kV/cm. Acrylic works well too, and handbooks say it has a breakdown of 990 volts/mil or about 40kV/mm. So as high a voltage you could normally get would work best. The article said to form an electret, heat the acrylic sheet slowly on a hot plate until it begins to get soft, about 120 deg C. They used sheets about 3 mm thick (1/8 inch) and the HV from a color TV, about 25kV. The hot plate was ground, aluminum foil on the top was the + HV electrode. Apply the HV, then let the plastic slowly cool, say 1 hour. Be careful that you don't get shocked! The electret will then have a surface charge. To have it last longer, wrap it with aluminum foil when not in use, similar to a "keeper" for a magnet. I quess now there are the ceramic electrets used in the microphones in tape recorders, phones, etc. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 22:22:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11799; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:22:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:22:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000619222504.2ae7c5e0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:25:04 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Improving the VCG In-Reply-To: <001d01bfda4c$3ea47c40$673dee3f@default> References: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> <394D45B8.8FDDBCDE@worldnet.att.net> <001701bfd9d6$c6f46f40$1d3dee3f@default> <394E55C0.B6D18BA8@worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rrHIs3.0.Gu2.2-lJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick, At 08:12 PM 06/19/00 -0400, you wrote: > I also envision a compressive vibratory generator, composed of many metal >filmed layers of a squeezable dielectric, pulsed with ultrasonic >transducers. Squeezin' the ZPF out of it, so to speak. Triboelectricity was the term I was looking for, as well as piezo., of course. Your all metal tests seem to remove these, though. >****** Quite likely. One could certainly deposit charges on segments; I >don't see any reason they wouldn't be additive. George Hathaway in Toronto >demonstrated that you could tandem homopolar generator discs for additive >EMF. Do you have more info on Hathaway? Separate homopolar generators could be run off the same shaft and their electrical outputs connected in series, but I was never successful using several series or coiled circuits in the same magnetic field to get a higher voltage DC field, as can be done with AC generators. I could only find that he worked on the Hutchison video and is on the editorial board of "Apeiron". -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 19 23:48:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA32022; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:47:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:47:50 -0700 Message-ID: <20000620064716.58122.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.6] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:47:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"xvIxq3.0.Fq7.KEnJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com David, First let me clarify my position. I am NOT an atheist. I am an agnostic, in that I merely claim that I have no idea what is the truth regarding God or evolution or other ideas along these lines (origins). That said, let me ask you this - if an alien dropped something on mars, his alien equivalent of a candy wrapper, would you have any idea that it was designed? Not necessarily. You might mistake it for a natural object of some kind easily. A man would recognize a candy wrapper from Earth, and would know where it came from by FAMILIARITY, not deduction or reasoning. My second point is this, even if you disprove evolution (which you didn't) this does not in and of itself prove the existence of God, for several reasons. Also, no matter who or what Darwin was, or what his motivations were (not sure you're right about his motives in any case)this does not disprove his work. This kind of attack in argumentation is known as a "straw man" attack. If you wish to convince me, attack the theory, not the thinker. As far as it taking more faith to believe in evolution, this is not so. I personally do not believe or disbelieve in either, because NEITHER have been shown to my satisfaction. I have read and listened to ALL the arguments, and NEITHER side has an airtight case, and BOTH have big holes. What you are doing is claiming that you can know the truth INTUITIVELY when you claim that you can look at a cell and just SEE that it was designed. WHY does it require design engineering to make a cell or store information? Accidental shadows on the wall or clouds sometimes appear to be something, sometimes amazingly so. If a cloud spells the word "love" and everyone who looks at can see it, then there is information there. Does this mean there was intent behind them? There are many examples of accidental information storage, are they all Divine in influence? This is not logic. Make a case and convince me based on facts and a solid chain of reasoning. And don't speak in generalities. Use specific examples. In any case, I would also love to discuss this further. Please feel free to email me at richardsontim@hotmail.com. Tim Richardson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 01:01:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14243; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:01:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:01:17 -0700 Message-ID: <00aa01bfda8e$2b41b180$2d9da0d1@pavilion> From: "Norm Silliman" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:04:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A7_01BFDA53.7E4BC9A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"wrnfB.0.SU3.DJoJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01BFDA53.7E4BC9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Chris O'Barr Date: Monday, June 19, 2000 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! =20 =20 Sorry my reply took so long. The G-forces would kill you if they = were to great, wouldn't they? =20 .... Yes, but as Ken Keasy pointed out in a parallel message, even = at one G .... you can get to light speed in a less than a year. Since = large G forces are .... not necessary to reach high volocities, accelerating to = light speed will never .... (by it self) kill you. (I assume that you were expecting = that to happen.) =20 .... While a hundred million years is short of forever, that is = about how long it will .... take a one G acceleration to kill you. =20 .... If your question was really "what happens when you try to = accelerate through .... the light speed barrier", then the answer changes slightly. =20 Norm From: Norm Silliman Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:06 AM =20 =20 From: Chris O'Barr Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:30 AM =20 =20 Does anyone know how to do the calculations to find out = how long it would take a man to accelerate to light speed without being = killed? I'm just curious... =20 How about one hundred million years. =20 Why do you think that acceleration will kill you? =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01BFDA53.7E4BC9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
From: Chris O'Barr <paradis2@peganet.com>
D= ate:=20 Monday, June 19, 2000 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: light = speed!

    Sorry my reply took so long. = The=20 G-forces would kill you if they were to great, wouldn't = they?
 
....   Yes, but as Ken = Keasy=20 pointed out in a parallel message, even at one G
....   =20 you can get to light speed in a less than a year.  Since large = G forces=20 are
....     not necessary to = reach high=20 volocities, accelerating to light speed will never
....    (by it self) kill = you.  (I=20 assume that you were expecting that to happen.)
 
....    While a = hundred=20 million years is short of forever, that is about how long it=20 will
....     take a one G acceleration to = kill=20 you.
 
....   If your question was really = "what=20 happens when you try to accelerate through
....    the light speed = barrier", then=20 the answer changes slightly.
 
Norm
From: Norm Silliman = <silliman@mindsync.com>
Date:=20 Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:06 AM

From: Chris O'Barr = <paradis2@peganet.com>
D= ate:=20 Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:30 AM

    Does anyone know how = to do the=20 calculations to find out how long it would take a man to = accelerate=20 to light speed without being killed? I'm just=20 curious...
 
How about one hundred million = years.
 
Why do you think that acceleration will = kill=20 you?
 
=
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01BFDA53.7E4BC9A0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 01:12:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16301; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:11:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:11:53 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:11:38 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: To Dave, from Butch, bifilar impedance To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"srydR1.0.X-3.9ToJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/19/00 8:05:13 PM Central Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > A bifilar > circuit cancels the magnetic field away from the pair, but NOT between > them. This is where the inductance comes from Dave, This inductance between the wires, is it as high as it would be if the two wires were separated and put on two separate coils in series, but not close to each other? What I'm getting at is, you said the field away from the wires is canceled. Does this mean that the inductance between the wires is a small percentage of the total inductance that would have been present had the fields away from the wires not been canceled? This inductance between the wires, is it less that the amount canceled, the same, or greater? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 03:23:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA29750; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 03:22:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 03:22:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01bfda9f$0c00d6a0$0d3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default><394D45B8.8FDDBCDE@worldnet.att.net><001701bfd9d6$c6f46f40$1d3dee3f@default><394E55C0.B6D18BA8@worldnet.att.net> <3.0.6.16.20000619222504.2ae7c5e0@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Improving the VCG Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:05:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Qtty51.0.lG7.xNqJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dameron" To: Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Improving the VCG > charges on segments; I > >don't see any reason they wouldn't be additive. George Hathaway in Toronto > >demonstrated that you could tandem homopolar generator discs for additive > >EMF. > Do you have more info on Hathaway? Separate homopolar generators could be > run off the same shaft and their electrical outputs connected in series, ****** It has been probably 3 years since I last spoke with George. He still is (I presume) in Toronto, and may retain a phone number under either Hathaway Consulting Services Inc. or Spectronics. Somewhere, I may have a scrap of paper with a phone number on it. If I can ever find it, I will e-mail it to you. George has investigated a vast number of ideas and projects. However, many of these are indeed PAID work for other parties, and it would be wrong for me to go into details about those, even if I knew what they all were. Suffice to say, I hold highest regard for George and his work, and kick myself often for just letting fate and life make me fall out of touch with him. . > > I could only find that he worked on the Hutchison video and is on the > editorial board of "Apeiron". > ****** Yes, George continues (at least up to when I talked to him last) to vouch for the Hutchison effect, but he moved on to other more immediate projects years ago, because of the paradoxical possibly PK related irreproducible character of the H.E. If you can find him and contact him, give him my regards. NR > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 05:14:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13650; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:13:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:13:58 -0700 Message-ID: <20000620121326.6933.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.107] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:13:26 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"j0Svl.0.AL3.60sJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I did the math some time ago and if I remember it takes 344 days at 1 G to reach lightspeed. I'm not one of the Einstein faithful so I don't perceive lightspeed as a "barrier". ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 05:55:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA21106; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:54:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:54:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bfdab7$02729fc0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <001001bfd92e$4c26d6c0$0a3dee3f@default> <394D45B8.8FDDBCDE@worldnet.att.net> <001701bfd9d6$c6f46f40$1d3dee3f@default> <394E55C0.B6D18BA8@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:56:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"c3ANn2.0.h95.2csJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What is a VCG? ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel To: Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter > > > ****** Good point. However I ruled this out for three reasons: > > > > 1. I used Cr and Al as my metals, both are about as non-magnetic as I could > > choose. > > 2. I intentionally introduced external fields from large magnets at a > > variety of angles. Effect was minimal or nil. > > 3. You can place the simple Cardwell variable cap version inside of a steel > > pipe, and get no difference in effect. > > > > NR > > Sounds good enough for now.... I'm satisified. Besides, the potentials > you are developing seem rather high for what would be generated by stray > fields.... > > To rule out spare fields from the motor driving it, you could also > drive it via bicycle wheel, IE, human power of some kind... ;) > > Just another data point to weed out spurious noise... <:) > > Lets assume it's the casmir effect. How could we extract more energy? > > Maybe charge the cap plates and then rotate them? > > Since capacitence varies with the rotation angle, perhaps lock step 2 > devices so as one attains it's minimum capacitence, the other attains > the max. See if we see any extraneous pumping in this systm as charge > cycles between VCGs? > > Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 06:23:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29817; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:23:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:23:06 -0700 Message-ID: <394F7024.9FD90062@dabney.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:22:44 -0500 From: "Red Leader" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: ION RAY GUN--please help References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8Hgmx1.0.MH7.v0tJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Hi all,Im new to the list and need help on building an ion ray gun for pranks > and stuff.I think I know how to start.Its a high vltage transformer driving a > cascade.Now I heard I need a high voltage resister of 200megs for anti-corona > purposes right before the needle?Is this right?Could I use a 500meg > instead? I bought the plans for one of these from Information Unlimited, although I haven't gotten around to building one. The plans I have don't have a resistor at the needle, it's just connected to the cascade output. > Also,it needs to be grounded.can I be the ground? Not if you want to shock someone besides yourself. It needs a direct earth ground to work the best. > Can I use a TV > tripiler instead of a self-built multiplier? It should work fine, although the plans I have recommend 4 or even 6 stages in the multiplier. > Does anyone know where to get parts?Can I use any value for capsthanks, The flyback transformer is going to be your biggest problem. If possible, hunt up a dead TV or computer monitor and take the flyback out. (Assuming that's not what's wrong with it.) If you need any more info, feel free to contact me directly. ( red-leader@dabney.com ) --- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 06:25:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31067; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:25:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:25:23 -0700 Message-ID: <394F6FE3.E15ECA8A@harti.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:21:39 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "ddameron@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, electret function ! References: <200006181356.JAA28552@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <3.0.6.16.20000619215808.2ae7bf0e@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2lOUu2.0.Kb7.23tJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave, thanks for the infos. When I have more free time, I will try to play with Acrylic discs to see, how I can make an electret with it and study it. If you find anything about commercial available electret products and ratings, please let me know. Especially the DC voltage they put out and the inner DC resistance would be interesting ! Regards, Stefan. Dave Dameron schrieb: > > Hi Stefan, > At 01:21 AM 06/20/00 +0200, you wrote: > > >how big were your acrylic plates and the electrodes > >on them and what permanent DC voltage did they give > >after the cooling ?? > > I found a 1969 article (Popular Electronics, March 1969) that said carnauba > wax was an early electret material. It could be poled at 20kV/cm. Acrylic > works well too, and handbooks say it has a breakdown of 990 volts/mil or > about 40kV/mm. So as high a voltage you could normally get would work best. > The article said to form an electret, heat the acrylic sheet slowly on a > hot plate until it begins to get soft, about 120 deg C. They used sheets > about 3 mm thick (1/8 inch) and the HV from a color TV, about 25kV. The hot > plate was ground, aluminum foil on the top was the + HV electrode. Apply > the HV, then let the plastic slowly cool, say 1 hour. Be careful that you > don't get shocked! > The electret will then have a surface charge. To have it last longer, wrap > it with aluminum foil when not in use, similar to a "keeper" for a magnet. > > I quess now there are the ceramic electrets used in the microphones in tape > recorders, phones, etc. > -Dave -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 06:57:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06629; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:56:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:56:45 -0700 Message-ID: <002601bfdabf$329b23e0$5cd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:55:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFDA9D.AAE94C40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"AawEv1.0.Qd1.TWtJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFDA9D.AAE94C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My question was "...how long would it take a man to accelerate to = light speed without being killed?" I wasn't aware that it would take = under a year at one G, that's why I asked. I thought one might have had = to travel above one G to reach light speed before one dies. I was very = wrong in my assumption, but now I know. Do you understand now? -----Original Message----- From: Norm Silliman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! From: Chris O'Barr Date: Monday, June 19, 2000 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: light speed! Sorry my reply took so long. The G-forces would kill you if they = were to great, wouldn't they? =20 .... Yes, but as Ken Keasy pointed out in a parallel message, even = at one G .... you can get to light speed in a less than a year. Since = large G forces are .... not necessary to reach high volocities, accelerating to = light speed will never .... (by it self) kill you. (I assume that you were expecting = that to happen.) =20 .... While a hundred million years is short of forever, that is = about how long it will .... take a one G acceleration to kill you. =20 .... If your question was really "what happens when you try to = accelerate through .... the light speed barrier", then the answer changes slightly. =20 Norm From: Norm Silliman Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:06 AM From: Chris O'Barr Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:30 AM Does anyone know how to do the calculations to find out how = long it would take a man to accelerate to light speed without being = killed? I'm just curious... =20 How about one hundred million years. =20 Why do you think that acceleration will kill you? =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFDA9D.AAE94C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    My question was "...how = long would it=20 take a man to accelerate to light speed without being killed?" = I wasn't=20 aware that it would take under a year at one G, that's why I asked. I = thought=20 one might have had to travel above one G to reach light speed before one = dies. I=20 was very wrong in my assumption, but now I know. Do you understand=20 now?
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Norm Silliman <silliman@mindsync.com>
To:=20 freenrg-l@eskimo.com = <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Tuesday, June 20, 2000 4:02 AM
Subject: Re: [FG]: light=20 speed!

 
From: Chris O'Barr <paradis2@peganet.com>
D= ate:=20 Monday, June 19, 2000 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: light = speed!

    Sorry my reply took so long. = The=20 G-forces would kill you if they were to great, wouldn't = they?
 
....   Yes, but as Ken = Keasy=20 pointed out in a parallel message, even at one G
....   =20 you can get to light speed in a less than a year.  Since large = G forces=20 are
....     not necessary to = reach high=20 volocities, accelerating to light speed will never
....    (by it self) kill = you.  (I=20 assume that you were expecting that to happen.)
 
....    While a = hundred=20 million years is short of forever, that is about how long it=20 will
....     take a one G acceleration to = kill=20 you.
 
....   If your question was really = "what happens=20 when you try to accelerate through
....    the light speed barrier", = then the=20 answer changes slightly.
 
Norm
From: Norm Silliman <silliman@mindsync.com>
Date:=20 Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:06 AM

From: Chris O'Barr = <paradis2@peganet.com>
D= ate:=20 Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:30 AM

    Does anyone know how to = do the=20 calculations to find out how long it would take a man to = accelerate to=20 light speed without being killed? I'm just = curious...
 
How about one hundred million = years.
 
Why do you think that acceleration will kill = you?
 
=
 
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFDA9D.AAE94C40-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 07:43:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22068; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:42:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:42:07 -0700 Message-ID: <394F82D0.13D136B7@info2000.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:42:24 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, electret function ! References: <200006181356.JAA28552@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <3.0.6.16.20000619215808.2ae7bf0e@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZBudr3.0.jO5.-AuJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How do the electrets used in microphones keep their charge? Are they somehow kept shorted? Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 07:45:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA23176; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:44:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:44:35 -0700 From: Fucian@aol.com Message-ID: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:43:17 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"D4_m31.0.1g5.IDuJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com But evolution has been proven false.Too many accounts to post here.Tell me if you would like to know further info about it. matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 08:14:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA01381; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:14:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:14:01 -0700 Message-ID: <007001bfdac9$caa42560$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <20000620064716.58122.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:07:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"zAFtR3.0.UL.ueuJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tim I think this message should be directed to Sam Garza. Best regards David Callaghan ----- Original Message ----- From: timothy richardson To: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect > David, > > First let me clarify my position. I am NOT an atheist. I am an agnostic, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 08:22:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA05576; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:22:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:22:00 -0700 Message-ID: <20000620152126.97452.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.108] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:21:26 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"s6hhe1.0.zM1.OmuJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >But evolution has been proven false.Too many accounts to post here.Tell me >if >you would like to know further info about it. > >matt > Sorry, but evolution has not been PROVEN false. Please feel free to send me any thoughts you have. richardsontim@hotmail.com Tim ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 08:35:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA11917; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:34:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:34:02 -0700 Message-ID: <002101bfdacd$4ea2b4a0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <004b01bfd53b$27886460$96d2989e@dave> <014301bfda34$d8941080$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> <005901bfda5f$64abeb40$96d2989e@dave> Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:36:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Od3Ox1.0.6w2.gxuJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I read an article flying somewhere while I was working for IBM in a magazine that was offered for passengers and it had an article that was about Einstein and his relationship with religion. He did not claim any religious affiliation but he most definitely believed in God. One quote I remember of his was "One of the must ununderstandable things about God was that HE(God) had made so much of the universe understandable to man" Now that may not be exactly word for word because I read it about 10 years ago but I thought about it quite a bit during the rest of the flight and the rest of the article. When I got back home I also told my wife about it. In fact I think I asked the stewardess if I could have it, but I don't remember if I got to keep the magazine or not. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Callaghan To: Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:29 PM Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect > Hi Sam > > This is OT so I'll keep this short. What > statements recorded from, for example, Einstein, > would lead you to believe that he believed in God? > > Best regards > David Callaghan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sam Garza > > > All of the world's great scientists believed in > God. Einstein, > > Faraday, Newton, Werner Von Braun, in fact I > don't think you could name a > > world class scientist that does not believe in > God. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 09:01:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA22216; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:01:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:01:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20000620160027.78853.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.155] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:00:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"gl-HR.0.1R5._KvJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At one time I struggled with similar questions of science and faith until shown that it is impossible for man to know and arrogant for a man to presume to know all the business of God. I have the faith that I will be told on a need to know basis. I needed to know that evolution and the whole workings of the Universe as I know them, are the work of God. I have accepted that, now its time for me to move on, I have an electrostatic gravity machine to build so I can explore his universe. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 09:02:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA22502; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:02:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:02:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000620090418.2137b94a@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:04:18 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"V4XUZ.0.VV5._LvJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken, At 12:23 AM 06/20/00 EDT, you wrote: >I measured the decrease in permanent magnet field with toroid current >(everything fixed, magnet near toroid) and the decrease began with low >currents and was almost linear. That is the reason I think it may not be a >saturation effect. > Wonder if it could be that easy as an "A" field detector, if it isn't something else? Does the effect vary linearly with the permanent magnet field - say move your probe away from the magnet, but keeping it at the same distance from the toroid? You can get up to 180 deg. away from the magnet. Have you also tried tried shielding the toroid? >> Do you have any more info on the transformer core material? I have used >> both high mu ferrite toroids and silicon steel transformer cores. I would >> also like to try a variable transformer core, but the ones with burned out >> windings are sold in a surplus store at the same very high prices as the >> good ones. > >Unfortunately, I do not know the core material. I have tried two different >ones, from different manufacturers, with similiar results. I also guess it varies with the permeability of the toroid. Would you try it with another material toroid. I have some 46mm OD ferrite, high permeability. >>The core material info. would be useful to see if there were more than one >> effect going on. > >I agree, more than one effect could be going on ----- > Ken -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 10:35:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09041; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:34:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:34:48 -0700 Message-ID: <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:51:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"uY5zp1.0.qC2.tiwJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Hi Matt I would appreciate any data you have on this subject. Cheers ...David Callaghan ----- Original Message ----- From: > But evolution has been proven false.Too many accounts to post here.Tell me if > you would like to know further info about it. > > matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 10:46:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11830; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:45:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:45:49 -0700 Message-ID: <200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:44:31 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"pc66Y1.0.lu2.CtwJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 6/20/00, at 5:51 PM, David Callaghan wrote: >I would appreciate any data you have on this subject. Yes, it would be interesting to see a solid dis-proof of evolution, based in fact. While evolution hasn't be proven itself (hence: theory vs. law), there is a lot of interesting information in the fossil record, and a variety of interesting experiments that man has done that show the plasticity of morphology... Edwin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 11:55:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03240; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:54:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:54:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com><003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:56:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"VM7im3.0.So.NtxJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com FACT ONE: Man with all his technology, education, skill, intent, tools, you name it has never been able to make ONE LIVING CELL FROM SCRATCH of any kind, any species, any anything. Fact 2: Evolution requires that the greatest intelligence be in the single cell. i.e. -- Some creatures decides one day it needs a new kind of cell say a fingernail, claw, whatever for a simple thing or an eye for a sophisticated thing. Now the cells which have never seen a claw or even have a clue what a claw is has to come up with it and o by the way after they figure it out and while figuring it out they have to figure out a way to transmit the information to reproduction for the next generation to have it as a starting point to continue to develop better design in the next iteration. By the way to develop an eye 3 things are required at the same time: A lens, a focal distance and a retina. and they all 3 have to be right or it does not work. Which by the way how do they communicate with each other. How does the retina tell the lens it is out of focus or tell the eye structure that the lens is the wrong distance away for the lens to be able to focus. This can go on and on between the lens and the structure or the structure and the eye pointing muscles, etc. Give me a break. Our whole sophisticated human being can't even force a living cell to be created from any matter amino acids, proteins, elements, etc. By the way while we are talking about the theory of evolution lets remember the scientific hierarchy. Laws are above theories. Another fact I learned in Physics is the LAW OF ENTROPY. which says that anything left to itself will go from a higher ordered state to a less ordered state. Fact 3: The fossil record which Darwin said should in the future bring out the missing links has done just the opposite it has lost some of its links to man's greed being brought into the open that many of the socalled links were falsely labeled such as teeth being found to belong to pigs such as deformed creatures being used as exhibits for species, etc. This was documented in Scientific American which is a Evolutionary propagandizing magazine which is a respected scientific journal with many scientists. Then there is the problem of water creatures fossils found on mountains far from any water. Fact 4: The Grand Canyon which used to be considered as a prime exhibit for evolution has also fallen in disrepute. The North rim is over a thousand feet higher than the South rim and water runs downhill not across. Another detail is that water normally cuts through the earth in a predictable manner, i.e. hard soils slowly, soft soils rapidly, uniform soils uniformly. In the Grand Canyon we have tributaries dropping of cliffs but not in any logical fashion the soils are not harder where the tributaries are and softer where the river is far below in fact often the reverse. Thirdly, the soil layers that are exposed in the cliffs of the Grand Canyon do not show as the accumulation of eons of time of dust settling but as water settling -- as in large particles laid down first in a layer then smaller and smaller like if you have water violence. This is evidenced over and over through the different colored layers. Fact 5: The NASA Lunar space missions expected to find very deep dust on the moon from its travels through space for eons of time but according to evolutionary scientists calculations the thin layer they find would be in line with a moon that was approximately 6000 years old!!! Fact 6: Any creature born from an egg has to have a way out. Snakes, birds, etc have egg teeth that they hatch with and shortly there after loose. If just one generation did not have this egg tooth that species just went extinct. If anyone would like more examples just ask. ----- Original Message ----- From: Edwin Wise To: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect > > On 6/20/00, at 5:51 PM, David Callaghan wrote: > > >I would appreciate any data you have on this subject. > > Yes, it would be interesting to see a solid dis-proof of evolution, based > in fact. > > While evolution hasn't be proven itself (hence: theory vs. law), there is a > lot of interesting information in the fossil record, and a variety of > interesting experiments that man has done that show the plasticity of > morphology... > > Edwin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 12:16:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11771; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:15:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:15:07 -0700 Message-ID: <20000620191430.59927.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.155] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:14:30 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"fjucU.0.qt2.wAyJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com And I thought I hated discussing Temporal Mechanics. OOOOOOOOOOOH! My head is spinning. I thought the topics were Free N R G and other such, isn't there an Evolutionist/Creationist Message Board somewhere for this kind of thing! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 12:28:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17047; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:27:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:27:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000620122619.258fd206@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:26:19 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: To Dave, from Butch, bifilar impedance In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lQQ2z1.0.GA4.EMyJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch, At 04:11 AM 06/20/00 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 6/19/00 8:05:13 PM Central Daylight Time, >ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > >> A bifilar >> circuit cancels the magnetic field away from the pair, but NOT between >> them. This is where the inductance comes from >Dave, >This inductance between the wires, is it as high as it would be if the two >wires were separated and put on two separate coils in series, but not close >to each other? >What I'm getting at is, you said the field away from the wires is canceled. >Does this mean that the inductance between the wires is a small percentage of >the total inductance that would have been present had the fields away from >the wires not been canceled? This inductance between the wires, is it less >that the amount canceled, the same, or greater? What is being reduced is the linkage flux between turns. As you know the inductance of a solenoidal coil varies as number turns squared, even thought the flux increases as only number of turns. This is because every turn links the flux of every other turn. Because the external field is reduced in a bifilar cancelling arrangement, this total linkage flux is thus reduced. The inductance of a straight portion of wire does not have this amount of coupling. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 12:33:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19673; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:32:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:32:11 -0700 Message-ID: <200006201430530030.01736807@mail.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net> <000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:30:53 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Evolutionary Babble... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"fevDD2.0.Ap4.vQyJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 6/20/00, at 2:56 PM, Sam Garza wrote: >FACT ONE: Man with all his technology, education, skill, intent, tools, you >name it has never been able to make ONE LIVING CELL FROM SCRATCH of any >kind, any species, any anything. Hmmm... but we have zapped lightning into "primordial soup" and gotten proteins. And we have gotten various things to self-organize into useful structures. We are headed that direction; the current failure to create a cell in no way indicates its impossibility; it only details our current ignorance. In 1600, man was totally incapable of flight -- did that mean that flight was impossible? >Fact 2: Evolution requires that the greatest intelligence be in the single >cell. i.e. -- Some creatures decides one day it needs a new kind of cell say >a fingernail, claw, whatever for a simple thing or an eye for a >sophisticated thing. Those patterns are laid down by chemical trails very early on... and once the cells differentiate at the beginning, they will just make copies of themselves. There has been interesting work done on this... and yes, the mechanisms that control it are very complex. However, it's fascinating to watch how similar structures take on different forms depending on their context... it's not all uniqueness and magic. A lack of understanding of all the details does not relegate them to the hand of God. >By the way to develop an eye 3 things are required at the same >time: A lens, a focal distance and a retina. and they all 3 have to be right >or it does not work. Not true. Any light-sensitive patch has value to the animal. These sensitive neurons, though, are delicate, so any "covering" over them protects them and extends their useful life. If that covering is transparent, all the better for use. If it focuses that light, instead of acting as a diffuse screen, better... and so forth. Once there is even rough images on the neural patch, it becomes beneficial to make use of patterns in them... motion... and so forth. Sure, it's complex. But not impossible, and it's is conceivable to plot a path through "state space" where a single light-sensitive neuron could grow over evolutionary time to be an eye. This doesn't mean it's true; but neither does your case mean it's not true. It means we have more to learn. >How does the retina tell the lens it is out of focus or tell the eye >structure that the lens is the wrong distance away for the lens to be able >to focus. There are at least two levels of "learning" that go on in organisms... evolutionary adaptation (and just a *tiny* bit better; really really tiny differences less than 1% make huge changes over time; this has been simulated), and learning within the organism. The development of the eye itself is on the evolutionary scale... and this is a big timescale, mind you, like nothing whatsoever in our personal experience. Dynamic focusing is just a feedback loop; cameras do it all the time. >Give me a break. Our whole >sophisticated human being can't even force a living cell to be created from >any matter amino acids, proteins, elements, etc. And we've been trying, what... 50 years? 100 years? 500 years? Versus how long for evolution? You make specious arguments here. "Gosh, we don't know how to do it; it must be God's work!" An argument founded in ignorance is... >Another fact I learned in Physics is the >LAW OF ENTROPY. which says that anything left to itself will go from a >higher ordered state to a less ordered state. Only within a closed system. If you study the dynamics of chaos, you find that even a small "pumping" of energy into a system can spontaneously create fabulously complex and intricate structures that, otherwise, would appear to be completely impossible. Earth is a heavly pumped system; while we lose energy and structure *overall*, our own local system can use the immense output of our sun to create "miracles" here on the surface for a short time. Note the eye on Jupiter, among the more visible cases. >Fact 3: The fossil record which Darwin said should in the future bring out >the missing links has done just the opposite it has lost some of its links It's a big planet, and we are in no position to scour all of it's crust... what we *do* find we find through luck and chance. There *are* indications of lines of evolution; the fact that we haven't traced *all* of the lines means nothing other than we haven't been perfectly lucky. It doesn't mean they didn't ever exist. We have to extrapolate from the facts that are given to us... not point to the gaps and then through everything around those gaps away. >Then >there is the problem of water creatures fossils found on mountains far from >any water. The continents we live on are not static. The smash into each other, fold, buckle -- do you really know nothing of the sciences? >Fact 4: The Grand Canyon which used to be considered as a prime exhibit for >evolution... Um, the Grand Canyon has nothing to do with evolution; it is a Geological entity, and would merit a separate discussion. >Fact 5: The NASA Lunar space missions expected to find very deep dust on the >moon from its travels through space for eons of time but according to >evolutionary scientists calculations the thin layer they find would be in >line with a moon that was approximately 6000 years old!!! Please provide a reference for this. I assume you are trying to prove, in points 4 and 5, that the earth is only 6,000 to 10,000 years old? >Fact 6: Any creature born from an egg has to have a way out. Snakes, birds, >etc have egg teeth that they hatch with and shortly there after loose. If >just one generation did not have this egg tooth that species just went >extinct. If just *every* instance of that species in one generation lost it, yes it would die out. And, as the world around us changes, there *have* been species that couldn't cope with it, and they *have* died out. However, if just one critter lost their tooth, yes, it would die... and would be unable to pass on that mutation. This detail, in fact, supports evolution and does not go against it. >If anyone would like more examples just ask. No, it would be pointless. Your examples are terrible and do more to highlight your ignorance than support your cause. I suppose it would help them if you could cite references; I know it would help *my* case to cite references... Some of your points may have interesting merit...4 seems like random babble, but 5 is fun. Edwin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 12:39:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23107; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:38:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:38:13 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:34:12 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <20000620191430.59927.qmail@hotmail.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"AfxfT.0.te5.aWyJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yup, seems like these folks want to discuss everything but what the list is for. Perhaps it's because they have nothing of value to contribute to the topic. They say God made man is his own image and likeness. I shudder at this thought; imagine how small minded and stupid God must be... K. -----Original Message----- From: Colin Cain [mailto:nosferado@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 3:15 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect And I thought I hated discussing Temporal Mechanics. OOOOOOOOOOOH! My head is spinning. I thought the topics were Free N R G and other such, isn't there an Evolutionist/Creationist Message Board somewhere for this kind of thing! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 13:11:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00441; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:10:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:10:00 -0700 Message-ID: <394FCFAE.83D97A12@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:10:22 -0400 From: Mike Longino X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com><003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net> <000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kRltN1.0.n6.N-yJv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Has anyone ever thought that just maybe evolution is gods plan. I am tired of people trying to use science to disprove a god exists and people using the bible to try to disprove science. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 13:39:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16038; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <394FCD2A.9DCD45B4@netzero.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:59:38 -0700 From: blue_eyes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Evolutionary Babble... References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net> <000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> <200006201430530030.01736807@mail.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G3UoT3.0.Sw3.jOzJv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks, I think Wilhelm Reich's bions were a step in that direction. As I recall, they were luminous and self mobile. David > >FACT ONE: Man with all his technology, education, skill, intent, tools, you name it has never been able to make ONE LIVING CELL FROM SCRATCH of any kind, any species, any anything. > _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 15:01:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07216; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:59:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:59:50 -0700 Message-ID: <200006201602080670.0030B737@mail.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <394FCD2A.9DCD45B4@netzero.net> References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net> <000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> <200006201430530030.01736807@mail.texas.net> <394FCD2A.9DCD45B4@netzero.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:02:08 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Bions Resent-Message-ID: <"18sPR3.0.Wm1.Mb-Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 6/20/00, at 12:59 PM, blue_eyes wrote: >I think Wilhelm Reich's bions were a step in that direction. >As I recall, they were luminous and self mobile. Hmmm, that sounds interesting. Do you have a reference handy? Edwin! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 15:02:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08190; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:01:43 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:01:02 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"X-EcP3.0.o_1.7d-Jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave, > >I measured the decrease in permanent magnet field with toroid current > >(everything fixed, magnet near toroid) and the decrease began with low > >currents and was almost linear. That is the reason I think it may not be a > > >saturation effect. > > > Wonder if it could be that easy as an "A" field detector, if it isn't > something else? Does the effect vary linearly with the permanent magnet > field - say move your probe away from the magnet, but keeping it at the > same distance from the toroid? You can get up to 180 deg. away from the > magnet. I don't know the effect of magnitude of the initial permanent magnetic field, but will try to look at that and post the results. >Have you also tried tried shielding the toroid? No, but I will take a look at that also. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 16:06:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA03163; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007d01bfdb07$a3957bc0$763dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com><003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave><200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net><000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com><200006201430530030.01736807@mail.texas.net><394FCD2A.9DCD45B4@netzero.net> <20000620 1602080670.0030B737@mail.texas.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Bions Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:33:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"yG9_C3.0.Kn.fY_Jv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >I think Wilhelm Reich's bions were a step in that direction. > >As I recall, they were luminous and self mobile. > > Hmmm, that sounds interesting. Do you have a reference handy? > > Edwin! ****** Some of the better libraries still have copies of Reich's "The Cancer Biopathy" wherein the bion experiments are discussed. Also go to the OBRL website for links to better information! http://www.orgonelab.org/ Dr. Jim Demeo could direct you to the best accounts of the Bion experiments, and Experiment XX, which also demonstrated the principle of organic self organization. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 16:58:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08195; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:57:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:57:27 -0700 Message-ID: <20000620235011.58268.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.58] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:50:11 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"yOtYN3.0.t_1.cJ0Kv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com David, You're right. Apologies. Tim ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 17:00:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09882; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:00:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:00:00 -0700 Message-ID: <20000620235928.96281.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.58] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:59:28 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"1VRTl3.0.BQ2._L0Kv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Absolutely true. In the future I will directly email my thoughts if the participants in this discussion will please forward me their email addresses. For the record mine is either richardsontim@hotmail.com or vkandtr@pcpartner.net. Tim ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 18:11:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02689; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:11:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:11:08 -0700 Message-ID: <20000621010945.26152.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.58] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: ION RAY GUN--please help Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:09:45 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Y_QV03.0.wf.iO1Kv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com There is a very, very, simple circuit which provides HV high freq. energy. Its a very common circuit so most of you are probably already familiar with it. I'm assuming you know at least a little about electronics and project construction. Anyway here it is. Parts: 27 ohm resister 270 ohm resister tv flyback transformer (don't bother trying to buy one, go to a junk yard and find an old tv, I have 70 or 80 of them and I didn't pay for any.) Try to find one of the older ones without the rectifiers. You'll know by whether it has little knobs to adjust on it. 2 2N3055 power transistors 12v 1000 mf electrolytic capacitor (not critical, use any value thats close, disc type are OK) #18 stranded hook up wire #24 stranded hook up wire (wire gauge is not critical, use what you have that's close) Construction: Take the flyback and remove the original primary winding. In its place wind ten turns of #18 or heavier (not critical) wire and put a center tap on the 5th turn. Tape this winding in place. On top and in the same direction, wind four turns of #24 or so wire. Leave a center tap. Tape in place. Now take your 270 ohm resister and connect between the two center taps. You will also at this point attach two leads to each tap. Solder the taps with leads and resisters in place or you can use wire nuts if you prefer. Now, connect the two #24 leads to the bases of your transistors and connect the #18 leads to the collectors. The emitters of each transistor are connected to each other and ground. Make sure you heat sink your transisters and that they are electrically insulated from the heat sink(s). Now connect the heavy primary winding center tap lead to the positive side of your cap. Connect the smaller feedback winding center tap lead to your 27 ohm resister and the other end of the resister to the neg side of your cap and ground. At this point take a good multimeter and determine which of the ground points on your flyback have the least resistance. This point will also be attached to ground. Now hook up your battery(s) or power supply to the cap (observe polarity here if you are using an electrolytic). Use a 12 v source not above 3 or 4 amps. Less is fine. Use at least an amp, though. At this point you can check your work by bring the HV lead close to ground. You should get a good, strong spark. Output varies with flyback but will be at least 2.5 to 3 KV. High freq so won't kill you, but it hurts. (sorry no diagram) Once you have it working, check your transisters for heating. If they become too hot to touch, you need to use a bigger heat sink. Its a good idea to do this anyway. If it doesn't work the first time, reverse your +/- connection and cap. If it still doesn't work, let me know and I will do what I can. (see below) I'm willing to help any way I can. For Ion generation: The more stages in your multiplier, the more ion output. Make sure all the caps and diodes are rated twice the voltage of your flyback. POT YOUR MULTIPLIER!!!!! EARTH GROUND. Don't even think about being the ground yourself, while the flyback won't kill you, charged capacitors in the multiplier can, depending on value and charge. At the very least, its an experience you will remember. Feel free to ask me for help. Email me first with the problem and if we can't solve it through email I will send you my #. richardsontim@hotmail.com Also, just for the record, I have a lot of experience in various circuit design, troubleshooting, and construction. Tim ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 19:53:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA11771; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:53:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:53:17 -0700 Message-ID: <39502F37.FA146535@netzero.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:57:59 -0700 From: blue_eyes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net> <000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> <200006201430530030.01736807@mail.texas.net> <394FCD2A.9DCD45B4@netzero.net> <200006201602080670.0030B737@mail.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CzNpj1.0.mt2.Tu2Kv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [OFF TOPIC} Bions Hi Edwin and the rest of the crew, Two references that come to mind are: "The Cancer Biopathy" "The Bion Experiments Wilhelm Reich & On the Origin of Life" ISBN 0-374-11836-1 Wilhelm Reich The Bion Experiments on the Origin of Life is the main book on the subject and has a fair amount of lithographs of the microscope images. Some online info: http://www.orgone.org/bions00.htm (home www.orgone.org) Aparently, the reprints can be had at the Wilhelm Reich Museum: http://www.tdstelme.net/~wreich/ David Edwin Wise wrote: > > On 6/20/00, at 12:59 PM, blue_eyes wrote: > > >I think Wilhelm Reich's bions were a step in that direction. > >As I recall, they were luminous and self mobile. > > Hmmm, that sounds interesting. Do you have a reference handy? > > Edwin! _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 19:53:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA11994; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:53:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:53:23 -0700 Message-ID: <39502F49.5B6185EF@netzero.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:58:17 -0700 From: blue_eyes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <200006201244310900.011205DF@mail.texas.net> <000f01bfdae9$441c3e40$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> <200006201430530030.01736807@mail.texas.net> <394FCD2A.9DCD45B4@netzero.net> <200006201602080670.0030B737@mail.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sz1Gw3.0.Ax2.Zu2Kv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [OFF TOPIC} Bions Hi Edwin and the rest of the crew, Two references that come to mind are: "The Cancer Biopathy" "The Bion Experiments Wilhelm Reich & On the Origin of Life" ISBN 0-374-11836-1 Wilhelm Reich The Bion Experiments on the Origin of Life is the main book on the subject and has a fair amount of lithographs of the microscope images. Some online info: http://www.orgone.org/bions00.htm (home www.orgone.org) Aparently, the reprints can be had at the Wilhelm Reich Museum: http://www.tdstelme.net/~wreich/ David Edwin Wise wrote: > > On 6/20/00, at 12:59 PM, blue_eyes wrote: > > >I think Wilhelm Reich's bions were a step in that direction. > >As I recall, they were luminous and self mobile. > > Hmmm, that sounds interesting. Do you have a reference handy? > > Edwin! _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 22:17:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04611; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:16:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:16:25 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <26.74fbf94.2681a985@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:15:49 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"mnqi42.0.y71.f-4Kv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave, > > Wonder if it could be that easy as an "A" field detector, if it isn't > > something else? Does the effect vary linearly with the permanent magnet > > field - say move your probe away from the magnet, but keeping it at the > > same distance from the toroid? You can get up to 180 deg. away from the > > magnet. > >Have you also tried tried shielding the toroid? I made a few more measurements and found: If the toroid is shielded the effect is greatly reduced; with better shielding it would probably no longer be measurable. The reduction in field with toroid current seems to vary close to linearly with the permanent magnet field. But the effect definitely occurs at low levels of magnetic field and low levels of toroid current --- not what you would expect if it were a saturation effect. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 20 23:28:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA21480; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:28:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:28:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000620232934.2d372434@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:29:34 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results In-Reply-To: <26.74fbf94.2681a985@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PUxhb1.0.XF5.326Kv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken, At 01:15 AM 06/21/00 EDT, you wrote: > I made a few more measurements and found: > If the toroid is shielded the effect is greatly reduced; with better >shielding it would probably no longer be measurable. > The reduction in field with toroid current seems to vary close to >linearly with the permanent magnet field. But the effect definitely occurs >at low levels of magnetic field and low levels of toroid current --- not >what you would expect if it were a saturation effect. > >Ken It sounds like it is related to the B or H field then, as opposed to the "A" field, but I don't know the mechanism, but would be exploring it if I had a Hall probe gaussmeter. If you can estimate how many revolutions (1 per layer) the windings make around the toroid perimeter, can you cancel this out with another loop (turns = number of revolutions) carrying the same current? Please post any new data that you find. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 01:40:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA13875; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:40:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:40:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20000621083925.1490.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:39:25 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Plasma Stabilization To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"FeYQV1.0.iO3.Yz7Kv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > All, > > Hey take a look at this: > > A. B. Hassam - > Velocity shear stabilization of interchange modes in > elongated plasma > configurations. > > http://www.ipr.umd.edu/Theory/Publications/pub99-7.pdf > In trying to open this pdf file, which I have always wondered what kind of thing they are about anyways, a command selection came up which says choose a program to open this file. Not knowing this could cause havoc I chose wordpad, having never heard of any of the others. Now I can look at the file and it is in numerical nonsense, that definitely not the program I wanted to use to acces that file. So putting the file to floppy disc was tryed and it shows the same thing. The problem now becomes I will never be able to view a pdf file in the correct manner Because Windows remembers the way I opened that file in the incorrect fashion and now longer asks what program do you wish to use to open this file? Any way out of this viscious loop? How can something so easy become so distorted? Totally looped out in Ohio HDN > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > Briggs@XLNsystems.com > ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 06:41:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA17052; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:38:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:38:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3950C737.D9C246FE@dialnet.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:46:31 -0500 From: Bob Squires X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GVVBm.0.HA4.mLCKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Dave; Two of my kids went to a lecture in Little Rock and came home with some video tapes that wreck the theory of evolution with much more conclusive facts than has ever been presented to support evolution.. In fact he offers $250,000. to any one who can offer scientific evidence to support evolution. Like their phoney geologic column . Fascinating stuff Bob Squires David Callaghan wrote: > Hi Matt > > I would appreciate any data you have on this subject. > > Cheers ...David Callaghan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > But evolution has been proven false.Too many accounts to post here.Tell me > if > > you would like to know further info about it. > > > > matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 06:49:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22037; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:49:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:49:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3950C702.71334C27@harti.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:45:38 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"w5yLI2.0.AO5.bVCKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [Fwd: Information on Entropy Engine] -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: Information on Entropy Engine Datum: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:24:03 "GMT" Von: Entropy Systems Inc An: "harti@harti.com" Hello: Thank you for inquiring about the Entropy Systems Inc., engine technology. In recent months many people have requested more information on this engine technology and on the inventor Sanjay Amin’s book that was published in the mid nineties. Within a short period this book will be available for free, in Adobe PDF format at Abika.com All of you who have requested a copy of this book please download it from the Abika.com website. Their address is: http://www.abika.com Thank you very much. Sincerely, J. Mendel Entropy Systems Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 07:09:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29366; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:09:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:09:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bfdb89$eae45be0$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <20000621083925.1490.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:06:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"naVO03.0.bA7.EoCKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: PDF Problems Harvey Install Adobe Acrobat Reader, which you can get from www.adobe.com This is the program generally used to view PDF files. It should associate PDF files with itself when it is installed. If not, fire up Windows Explorer, select VIEW>FOLDER OPTIONS and click on the FILE TYPES TAB. Scroll down the list with the arrow keys until the File Extension PDF is displayed in the File Type Details frame. Click Remove. Resinstall Acrobat Reader and all should work fine. Best regards David Callaghan ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey norris > In trying to open this pdf file, which I have always From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 07:26:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04797; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:26:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: <004801bfdb8c$4791b8e0$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <3950C737.D9C246FE@dialnet.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:23:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"gfwqN3.0.sA1.B2DKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bob Your private email address as below bounces messages immediately. Is this correct? David Callaghan From: Bob Squires From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 08:24:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27938; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:22:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:22:23 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:21:39 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:39:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: [FG]: Plasma Stabilization In-reply-to: <20000621083925.1490.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2790ZYNDG8E9Z X400-MTS-identifier: [;93121112600002/4827415@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"3OpNe3.0.Rq6.ksDKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harvey, What version of windows do you have? I believe if you install the free Adobe Acrobat Reader it will set the file type association to point to the proper application. You can get it at: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html It is about 5.6 MB so it may take awhile if your on a modem connection. If that doesn't fix it, in Windows '95 start Windows Explorer, it probably works the same way in Win'98 but I don't know for sure. Click on the "View" menu item up above, and select the "Options" tab at the bottom of the dropdown list. In the options screen select the "File Types" tab. This is where programs are associated with file types. Where in Ohio are you, I'm in Columbus. Bill webriggs@concentric.net Briggs@XLNsystems.com >In trying to open this pdf file, which I have always >wondered what kind of thing they are about anyways, a >command selection came up which says choose a program >to open this file. Not knowing this could cause havoc >I chose wordpad, having never heard of any of the >others. Now I can look at the file and it is in >numerical nonsense, that definitely not the program I >wanted to use to acces that file. So putting the file >to floppy disc was tryed and it shows the same thing. >The problem now becomes I will never be able to view a >pdf file in the correct manner Because Windows >remembers the way I opened that file in the incorrect >fashion and now longer asks what program do you wish >to use to open this file? Any way out of this viscious >loop? How can something so easy become so distorted? >Totally looped out in Ohio HDN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 08:49:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06730; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:48:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:48:46 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:43:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Plasma Stabilization Message-ID: <20000621.114723.259.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-7,9-58,60 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"JB1_w.0._e1.TFEKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hold down the left shift key while right clicking (clicking the right mouse button) on the file. a menu will pop up the will have "OPEN" and "OPEN With" as the top two choices. Choose "OPEN With", then it will allow you to choose to open it with adobe acrobat. Assuming you have acrobat installed. Dave On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:39:25 -0700 (PDT) harvey norris writes: > > --- Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 > wrote: > > All, > > > > Hey take a look at this: > > > > A. B. Hassam - > > Velocity shear stabilization of interchange modes in > > elongated plasma > > configurations. > > > > > http://www.ipr.umd.edu/Theory/Publications/pub99-7.pdf > > > In trying to open this pdf file, which I have always > wondered what kind of thing they are about anyways, a > command selection came up which says choose a program > to open this file. Not knowing this could cause havoc > I chose wordpad, having never heard of any of the > others. Now I can look at the file and it is in > numerical nonsense, that definitely not the program I > wanted to use to acces that file. So putting the file > to floppy disc was tryed and it shows the same thing. > The problem now becomes I will never be able to view a > pdf file in the correct manner Because Windows > remembers the way I opened that file in the incorrect > fashion and now longer asks what program do you wish > to use to open this file? Any way out of this viscious > loop? How can something so easy become so distorted? > Totally looped out in Ohio HDN > > Bill > > webriggs@concentric.net > > Briggs@XLNsystems.com > > > > > ===== > Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 08:49:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06882; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:49:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:49:01 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <5f.6d590fe.26823dc1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:48:17 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"VD2vr1.0.6h1.fFEKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave, > It sounds like it is related to the B or H field then, as opposed to the > "A" field, but I don't know the mechanism, but would be exploring it if I > had a Hall probe gaussmeter. If you can estimate how many revolutions (1 > per layer) the windings make around the toroid perimeter, can you cancel > this out with another loop (turns = number of revolutions) carrying the > same current? Let's see, this is a toroidal transformer with a turns ratio of like 10:1 I think, and I am using just the primary. So one could run a reverse current through the secondary at 10x the primary and cancel the MMF. My tests showed that either polarity of current caused a decrease in the B of an external magnet. I am assuming if you cancel the MMF it will end the effect. Are you thinking otherwise or are you referring to the toroid primary possibly wound non-cancelling so the winding goes around the toroid a few times creating a few turn "coil"? In the latter case I measure a B of less than 1 gauss in the direction that field would be, when I use max toroid current. The B reverses direction when I change current direction. It's hard to tell if I am seeing fringing or the "coil" effect, but at 1/4" from toroid it is less than 1g at the 1A max current I have been using. (The B field reductions of the permanent magnet fields have been typically 5-20 gauss, and at much larger distances from the toroid.) Ken Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 10:34:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20888; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:33:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:33:54 -0700 Message-ID: <20000621173318.97047.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.83.9] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:33:18 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"8eFBq1.0.D65.2oFKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The Morton Effect Has there been any recent work by Charles R. Morton, is there any further information on the "Space Warp 1". I am especially interested in his models and how the information might be related to the Grav-Cap. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 11:03:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32366; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:02:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:02:28 -0700 Message-ID: <20000621175505.6013.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:55:05 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Plasma Stabilization To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Kwfcb2.0.Rv7.pCGKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > Harvey, > > What version of windows do you have? >I am now using 98, what brought on confusion was the fact that the other computer using Windows 95 had this acrobat reader installed, which is what I used to access the list in the past. I assumed the new computer could do the same thing when it doesnt. I will try loading the acrobat program ... Thanx for clueing me in to the problem > I believe if you install the free Adobe Acrobat > Reader it will set the file > type association to point to the proper application. > > You can get it at: > > > http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html > > It is about 5.6 MB so it may take awhile if your on > a modem connection. > > If that doesn't fix it, in Windows '95 start Windows > Explorer, it probably > works the same way in Win'98 but I don't know for > sure. > > Click on the "View" menu item up above, and select > the "Options" tab at the > bottom of the dropdown list. In the options screen > select the "File Types" > tab. This is where programs are associated with > file types. > > Where in Ohio are you, I'm in Columbus. Exit 13 on the Ohio Turnpike, town called Streetsboro. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 11:53:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04515; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <395110B5.36B72387@dialnet.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:00:05 -0500 From: Bob Squires X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect References: <6e.5d62a4.2680dd05@aol.com> <003401bfdad7$ddddfd00$96d2989e@dave> <3950C737.D9C246FE@dialnet.net> <004801bfdb8c$4791b8e0$96d2989e@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"acKPt1.0.H61.rxGKv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave ,I'm checking with them now. Should be cleared up soon, the address is correct David Callaghan wrote: > Bob > > Your private email address as below bounces messages immediately. Is this > correct? > > David Callaghan > > From: Bob Squires From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 11:55:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18044; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:55:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:55:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:55:26 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <000801bfcb4b$03881960$d8006ecb@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Nux1t.0.iP4.a-GKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Dan Danforth? Can anyone help the person below? On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Denver Lawson wrote: > I'm building one of Stan Meyer's water gas generator cells and can't get > it to work. A gentleman named Dan Danforth made one which did work, but > I can't seem to find his contact details. The link is below if you are > not aware of it. > > http://salsa.iinet.net.au/~steveb/danforth/dan1.html > > I tried contacting him via the host of this link, but he had no contact > details, and International Directory in Sri Lanka could not find him. > I'm hoping you know how I can contact him. Can you please forward me his > contact details or get this message to him? > > Regards, > Denver Lawson > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 13:29:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22281; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:27:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:27:39 -0700 Message-ID: <20000621202701.24526.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:27:01 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"2pbaN2.0.iR5.xKIKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Arc less High freq via neon The use of long metal bars to create a very small air gap which in turn is connected to the midpoint of a large coil in 60 hz series resonance has been shown to create high frequency oscillations coming from plate areas of aluminum foil or what is designated as polar or one ended capacities. Such a process is pictured at http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/triple.html In further research it was found that when the sweep rate selection was turned to lower settings of 2 and 5 ms/div to observe the 60 hz input signal from the plates, those waveforms showed the eruption of the high freq event as corresponding to spikes riding on the waveform. By counting the number of spikes riding on the 60 hz signal, the BPS or electrical bursts per second occuring at the arc bars can be calculated. It is thought of course that these arcs correspond to the spikes found on that sweep rate. Such a form is found at http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/anomolous.html Now the great number of spikes made in these different processes most probably rely on the fact that both processes can be made mirror image from both polarities by using two coils in series resonance, each one 180 out of phase, each arcing to its own polar capacity plate. By bringing those plates closely together in space the BPS of the combined systems can be made to a high value. Now by connecting a neon between one of these plates and the inner arc bar in a double system application and then separating the plates several inches, the arcing at the bars can be made to stop. However the neon is still observed to be conducting a gas discharge! Evidently the inside circuit between these air gaps consists of the bulb and this very small air capacity in series.This very small air capacity then has a quick charging time and can function as the amount of electrons available for oscillation for the gas discharge, without those electrons being supplied by the outside system. The next obervation to be made was to place the sensor coil around the bulb. This then shows a 120 bps high freq signature, although no actual arcing at the bars occurs. Evidently the gas discharge has enabled this high freq process to occur without the means of an actual arc through the atmosphere. In additional research not yet made into web page format a gasoline arc gap was attempted and found an effective means of creating a good BPS signature. This raises the possibility of harnessing the higher frequencies available in a diodeless automobile alternator phase for stimulating the gasoline with high freq electric fields prior to combustion. Also a 1.5 kva transformer was placed on these MWO field plates and found to deliver high voltages at exceedingly small time intervals, depending on how the wiring is made. These were very damped oscillations that decayed quickly. This was enough however to recieve an accidental shock from the primary. Borrowed VHS camera is returned, so until another is aquired more web pages will take awhile. Sincerely HDN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 13:49:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31490; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:49:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:49:19 -0700 Message-ID: <20000621204837.1004.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:48:37 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Dan Danforth? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"t4rii1.0.qh7.CfIKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- William Beaty wrote: > > > Can anyone help the person below? > > > On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Denver Lawson wrote: > > I'm building one of Stan Meyer's water gas > generator cells and can't get > > it to work. A gentleman named Dan Danforth made > one which did work, but > > I can't seem to find his contact details. The link > is below if you are > > not aware of it. > > > > > http://salsa.iinet.net.au/~steveb/danforth/dan1.html > > > > I tried contacting him via the host of this link, > but he had no contact > > details, and International Directory in Sri Lanka > could not find him. > > I'm hoping you know how I can contact him. Can you > please forward me his > > contact details or get this message to him? > > > > Regards, > > Denver Lawson > > Concerning this water fractioning business I would use the Russian approach to things: bigger is better and keep it simple. I would not rely on solid state technology to produce the needed high voltage/high freq signals to accomplish this water fractioning. The use of high voltage signals that can instantly quench themselves via an arc gap method dictates that minimal power input is being used. Additionally as Puharich has observed if the electrolysisor is part of a tank circuit the amperage inside that circuit can be greater than the input due to resonant rise of amperage. It is the amperage factor that produces the volume of gas, so both of these strategies should be pursued. I have not yet reached these experimental opportunities, but I have been able to observe the .2 ms dc resonant response that an electrolysisor experiences when surrounded by high voltage/ high freq plates of this nature. Thus the water acts like a natural rectifier to imposed high freq signals(of this nature) Scope forms of this are found at http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/water. The electrolysisor is shown on the previous page. Sincerely HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 15:13:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA28797; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:12:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:12:51 -0700 From: Alan Schneider To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Dan Danforth? Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:12:30 +1000 Message-ID: References: <000801bfcb4b$03881960$d8006ecb@default> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA28586 Resent-Message-ID: <"PdLOR3.0.s17.YtJKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:55:26 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote: > > >Can anyone help the person below? > > >On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Denver Lawson wrote: >> I'm building one of Stan Meyer's water gas generator cells and can't get >> it to work. A gentleman named Dan Danforth made one which did work, but >> I can't seem to find his contact details. The link is below if you are >> not aware of it. >> >> http://salsa.iinet.net.au/~steveb/danforth/dan1.html >> >> I tried contacting him via the host of this link, but he had no contact >> details, and International Directory in Sri Lanka could not find him. >> I'm hoping you know how I can contact him. Can you please forward me his >> contact details or get this message to him? >> >> Regards, >> Denver Lawson I have NEVER heard of a successful replication of either Meyer's or Danforth's work unfortunately. FWIW, I have a copy of the Danforth data on my own website http://www.zip.com.au/~alansch/danforth/dan1.htm which was rescanned from an original print copy. The diagrams are larger and much clearer than on the site you mention. I contacted Ian Hacon (the publisher of the magazine which ran the article) some time ago about this. According to Ian, the author was supposed to get back to him with further details, test results etc but unfortunately never did and the contact was lost. So it could be another one of these hoax replication claims . Good luck anyway. Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 17:22:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10269; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:21:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:21:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000621172359.21572436@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:23:59 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results In-Reply-To: <5f.6d590fe.26823dc1@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-pg3a.0.MW2.PmLKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken, >Let's see, this is a toroidal transformer with a turns ratio of like 10:1 I >think, and I am using just the primary. So one could run a reverse current >through the secondary at 10x the primary and cancel the MMF. My tests showed >that either polarity of current caused a decrease in the B of an external >magnet. Interesting that it doesn't depend on the direction of the DC current in the primary!? That says it is some square law or higher effect? > > I am assuming if you cancel the MMF it will end the effect. Are you >thinking otherwise or are you referring to the toroid primary possibly wound >non-cancelling so the winding goes around the toroid a few times creating a >few turn "coil"? Yes, the "few turn coil" around the toroid (producing fields similar to a solenoid) is what I had in mind. It sounded that your effect was larger than this would produce, but I was wondering if this would give the same effect, but on a smaller scale? If so it would help give clues on what was the cause. > > In the latter case I measure a B of less than 1 gauss in the direction >that field would be, when I use max toroid current. The B reverses direction >when I change current direction. So that source is "linear" or at least "odd" in current direction. >It's hard to tell if I am seeing fringing >or the "coil" effect, but at 1/4" from toroid it is less than 1g at the 1A >max current I have been using. (The B field reductions of the permanent >magnet fields have been typically 5-20 gauss, and at much larger distances >from the toroid.) > Ken -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 19:06:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18313; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:05:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:05:48 -0700 Message-ID: <001101bfdbeb$e852c800$683dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <3.0.6.16.20000621172359.21572436@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Topic of Toroids Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:48:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"wwHo62.0.wT4.wHNKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dameron" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Interesting magnetic (toroid) results RE: Toroidal transformers. One of the illustrations used by WJ Hooper to illustrate that the mechanism behind induction was incompletely understood was the toroidal transformer. He proposed it like this: The classical laws of induction state that an EMF is induced when a conductor is either cut by a moving or time varying magnetic flux. Easy enough to demonstrate with a loop of wire, a bar magnet, and a galvanometer. However, by the letter of these laws, a toroidal transformer should not even work! Consider 100 turns of wire wrapped around one side, or a portion, of a ferrous ring. The degree of tightness of the windings is of lesser importance, they may be wound right on the core ring, or they may be offset on an insulating wrap. We then wind 100 turns of wire, with appropriate insulation around the other side or portion of the ring. A time varying current is introduced into the primary, producing a time varying magnetic field. The core ring traps and conducts the reciprocating flux in an efficient manner. Now let us say that the ring is of a high permeability material. If we place a Hall effect sensor near the ring toward the secondary side, we see only a very minor leakage flux, if anything. This is because the magnetic flux is conducted almost entirely within the ring, not in the space surrounding the ring. But wait! For an EMF to be induced in the secondary, the magnetic flux must cut the conductor! However, with the exception of whatever minor leakage may be present, the flux is conserved within the ring, and does not spread out to engulf the region of secondary windings. Yet even if we wind the secondary an appreciable distance off of the core, we see our robust secondary EMF; though certainly the efficiency of our energy coupling decreases with distance from the core. Thus Hooper's Toroidal Transformer Paradox. Thats my contribution for the night. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 21 23:01:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25108; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:00:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:00:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000621225539.23972434@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:55:39 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Topic of Toroids In-Reply-To: <001101bfdbeb$e852c800$683dee3f@default> References: <3.0.6.16.20000621172359.21572436@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"044rM3.0.386.0kQKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick and all, At 09:48 PM 06/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > RE: Toroidal transformers. > >One of the illustrations used by WJ Hooper to illustrate that the mechanism >behind induction was incompletely understood was the toroidal transformer. > He proposed it like this: > The classical laws of induction state that an EMF is induced when a >conductor is either cut by a moving or time varying magnetic flux. Easy >enough to demonstrate with a loop of wire, a bar magnet, and a galvanometer. >However, by the letter of these laws, a toroidal transformer should not even >work! Actually this applies to most any ferromagnetic-core transformer in that the core contains the flux. Many are just not circular like a toroid. > Consider 100 turns of wire wrapped around one side, or a portion, of a >ferrous ring. The degree of tightness of the windings is of lesser >importance, they may be wound right on the core ring, or they may be offset >on an insulating wrap. > We then wind 100 turns of wire, with appropriate insulation around the >other side or portion of the ring. A time varying current is introduced >into the primary, producing a time varying magnetic field. The core ring >traps and conducts the reciprocating flux in an efficient manner. > Now let us say that the ring is of a high permeability material. If we >place a Hall effect sensor near the ring toward the secondary side, we see >only a very minor leakage flux, if anything. This is because the magnetic >flux is conducted almost entirely within the ring, not in the space >surrounding the ring. > But wait! For an EMF to be induced in the secondary, the magnetic flux >must cut the conductor! Actually no, the time varying flux must link the secondary turns. The flux "cutting" the turns" is one way the linked flux can change. Some call this "motional" induction. Another way is for the flux itself to vary, what is normally called "transformer" induction. I believe except in a few examples, they are the same thing. What is at the secondary turns is the varying "A" field, the "magnetic vector potential". An older name for the "A" field is the "electrotonic intensity". However, with the exception of whatever minor >leakage may be present, the flux is conserved within the ring, and does not >spread out to engulf the region of secondary windings. Yet even if we wind >the secondary an appreciable distance off of the core, we see our robust >secondary EMF; though certainly the efficiency of our energy coupling >decreases with distance from the core. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 07:42:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA28821; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:40:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:40:45 -0700 Message-ID: <39522488.AF0466AC@harti.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:36:56 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <39EC378B@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GF4SZ1.0.A27.jLYKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Reverse engineering Testatika Hi, here is a very nice page about electrostatic machines. http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/electrostatic.html Regarindg Testatika: I must add, I guess the acrylic discs acts as an electret, but the rear disc probably has the poles of the electret reversed each segment, so it is + - + - + - + - and so on. Then if you rotate it, you get a HV AC current , which can be easily CAPACITIVELY transformed down to about 300 Volts. e.g.: Charge a small capacitor to 1000 Volts and then discharge it to a much bigger capacitor --> voltage will fall and available current will rise inside the bigger cap !(capacitive transformer effect !) Here are the pictures: http://www.overunity.com/testatika movies of it: http://mars.spaceports.com/~over/movies/ Hi Geoff and all, now this: http://www.overunity.com/testatika/neweng.htm is now getting very clear to me. Look at the drawing of Mr. Holzherr. The plexiglas arm with its mesh electrodes is nothing else than a simple electret formed via plexiglas and 2 mesh electrodes. One aluminium mesh electrode and at the other side steel mesh electrode ! Electrets are also done this way. One HV charged dielectric with one electrodes on each side ! The electret arm has a static HV charge which it INFLUENCES (electrically induces) into the block of brass meshes and plexiglas under it, when the plexiglas arm is swept back and forth by Mr. Baumann ! This way he is able to charge the 2 capacitors up. Now the whole Testatika machine consists of 2 electret discs rotating in counterdirection. This is also why the 2 discs or at least one disc MUST HAVE ON BOTH SIDES mesh electrodes ! It must be an electret disc having the metal electrodes on each side of the plexiglas disc ! Via the metal mesh electrodes the electric charges are got out from the nonconducting plexiglas disc ! This is just done via INFLUENCE into the "taster" electrodes as Methernitha calls them. (collecting pickup electrodes) Now imagine the 2 electret discs acting like permanent magnets in the electrical field ! They just attract each other, until the mesh eletrodes align with PLUS and Minus to each other. This was also reported by Stefan Marinow, that the discs tended to rotate from alone, if you stopped them. So this tells us, that the 2 discs want to align this way, that the electrodes want to have the opposite polarity so to attract each other and influencing inside each other and inside the brushless pickup electrodes big voltages via influence, which are charging up the leyden jars. Now, if they have aligned after maybe 10 degrees of rotation, then there comes an electric impulse via the switching of the HV motor (coils with permanent magnet rotor) going to the pickup "taster" electrodes and reverses the polarity in at least a few segments of at least one electret disc, so there is an imbalance and the electret discs can rotate on and the next segments attract each other. I guess, inside the smaller 300 Watts models we just only have one electret disc rotating and fixed electrets (crystal type electrodes with meshes fixed to them, so there the rotation speed is much higher, cause "one disc" is fixed and the "other" disc is rotating ! Now, why is Mr. Baumann using wire mesh instead of full foil electrodes ? It seems he uses the polarized iones of the air as the power source, so to trap as many as possible ions he probably needs the wire mesh, so also the ions have contact to the surface of the plexiglas electret polarisation surface. This way normal air is ionisized and is trapped between the discs and the charges of the ionized air are seperated and pushed onto the meshed metal electrodes and thus produce more electricity. This is it, what he calls : "One disc is the earth and the other disc is the cloud and it produces electricity due to nature´s secret of lightning" He just collects as much as possible seperated ion and electron charges from the air and to seperate them he needs the contact with the plexiglas, that is why he uses the mesh electrodes ! Clever done ! :) Did you know one cm^3 of air has about 10^23 molecules which could be charge seperated, when I remember correctly ?! That is also why the bigger you build the discs the more electrical power you get ! This is also why the 30 KW machine needs 2 meter diameter sized discs. BTW, the HV is CAPACITIVELY transformed down to about 270 to 300 Volts. It seems to be a capacitive transformer via different sized leyden jars and switching the charges between them can transform the high voltage down, if you go from small capacitance HV leyden jars to bigger capacitance leyden jars, the voltage is automatically transformed down ! This is probably down also via this HV motor and its commutator and also via this diode, which is mentioned, which is probably a HV crystal diode ! So I guess the Testatika machines are not anymore this mysterious. It is just an electrostatical influence machine done via electret discs. Also imagine the experiment from Graham Gunderson done with an HV electret as the power source and not a charged oil capacitor ! This will also charge up the Avramenko plug very good ! I guess we now need to find good materials for electrets to build ! Think about it. Hope this clears up some mystery also for you ! Regards, Stefan. Geoff Egel schrieb: > > >===== Original Message From "Stefan Hartmann" ===== > >-- In ou-builders@egroups.com, Dave Squires wrote: > >> Stefan, > >> Ah hah!!! So it has a drive motor after all. > > Yes I think you are right about the drive wheel > The video of the machine I have quite clearly shows a belt driving the device > > But I think it was needed to help control the speed of the device. > apparently the speed was an inportant consideration. > > Makes one wonder if this timed to the electret discharge and recharge cycle of > the electret. > > It good to see that others think the device has electrets as previously > mentioned at my brightsparks and solaris website pages dealing with the > Tetakica. > although I don't think this is complete answer. > > An interesting observation I made when playing around with my wimshurst > machine. , was both discs did not need to move at the same relative speed > as long as there was some motion of the disk moving in opposite directions. > > That is one disk could be rotating faster that the other disk but they had to > be in opposite directions. > > Has anyone else noticed this effect as well. > > Geoff > > Website > > energy 21 website at energy 21.org -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 09:34:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA14363; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:33:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:33:53 -0700 Message-ID: <39523FFB.F285742C@info2000.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:34:03 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D8D1850D08DDBF973A2D7E32" Resent-Message-ID: <"OQF253.0.FW3.n_ZKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [Fwd: FW: About your health] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D8D1850D08DDBF973A2D7E32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received this message from my daughter this morning and am forwarding it to the group. I apologize in advance if it turns out to be a hoax but if it is true and I save a life by sending it then no apology is necessary. Sincerely, Ted --------------D8D1850D08DDBF973A2D7E32 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from xmail.aei.com (xmail.aei.com [198.68.195.250]) by taz.info2000.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA08615 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:24:05 -0600 Received: FROM ftcexc05.aefc.com BY xmail.aei.com ; Thu Jun 22 09:25:27 2000 -0600 Received: by ftcexc05.aefc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:20:21 -0600 Message-ID: <210964085B5CD211B55F00A0C99E949828C501@ftcexc02.aefc.com> From: "FREEHILL, BECKY" To: "'Charlie'" , "'Christina M.'" , "'Frank'" , "'Fred and Cindi'" , "'Jeff and Michelle'" , "'Judi'" , "'Kim'" , "'Mary Ellen'" , "'Stacy'" , "'Ted'" , "'Tim and Wendy'" Subject: FW: About your health Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:20:17 -0600 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <210964085B5CD211B55F00A0C99E949828C501@ftcexc02.aefc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BFDC5D.6162BE96" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BFDC5D.6162BE96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: BOOTON, VIRGINIA Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 6:01 AM To: HORTON, ETHEL; SANDGREN, RICHARD; THEILGAARD, TOM; HAENDLER, WANDA; FREEHILL, BECKY Subject: FW: About your health FYI I don't know how true this is but if it is it's sure scary that people are doing this. V. Subject: About your health This is interesting....I never got anything like this before. Terri Escritor Business Office Assistant-HOC Subject: FW: Real Virus (Physical) Alert Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:10:15 -0400 Sorry everyone....for sending this but it's a little too scary to ignore - there are a lot of sick people out there...... This is an alert about a virus in the original sense of the word...one that affects your body, not your hard drive. There have been 23 confirmed cases of people attacked by the Klingerman Virus, a virus that arrives in your real mail box, not your e-mail in box. Someone has been mailing large blue envelopes, seemingly at random, to people inside the US. On the front of the envelope in bold black letters is printed, "A gift for you from the Klingerman Foundation." When the envelopes are opened, there is a small sponge sealed in plastic. This sponge carries what has come to be known as the Klingerman Virus, as public health officials state this is a strain of virus they have not previously encountered. When asked for comment, Florida police Sergeant Stetson said, "We are working with the CDC and the USPS, but have so far been unable to track down the origins of these letters. The return addresses have all been different, and we are certain a remailing service is being used, making our jobs that much more difficult." Those who have come in contact with the Klingerman Virus have been hospitalized with severe dysentery. So far seven of the twenty-three victims have died. There is no legitimate Klingerman Foundation mailing unsolicited gifts. If you receive an oversized blue envelope in the mail marked, "A gift from the Klingerman foundation", DO NOT open it. Place the envelope in a strong plastic bag or container, and call the police immediately. The "gift" inside is one you definitely do not want. PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE YOU CARE ABOUT. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BFDC5D.6162BE96 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhYPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQkABAACAAAAAAAAAAEIAAUABAAAAAAAAAAAAAEFgAMADgAAANAH BgAWAAkAFAARAAQAJQEBIIADAA4AAADQBwYAFgAJABQAFQAEACkBAQmAAQAhAAAANkU3NDRBRUQ5 OTQ2RDQxMUI1ODkwMEEwQzk5RTk0OTgAKwcBBIABABYAAABGVzogQWJvdXQgeW91ciBoZWFsdGgA dwcBDYAEAAIAAAACAAIAAQOQBgD0DAAANQAAAAMAAYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAADw EwAAHgACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC41AAsAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAAAaFAAAAAAAAAwAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAAWACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAsABoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAA AwAHgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAR hQAAAAAAAAMACoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgALgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA 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OTlFOTQ5ODI4QzUwMUBmdGNleGMwMi5hZWZjLmNvbT4AACZ7 ------_=_NextPart_000_01BFDC5D.6162BE96-- --------------D8D1850D08DDBF973A2D7E32-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 09:50:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26031; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:50:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:50:20 -0700 Message-ID: <200006221148550290.00EC92CC@mail.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <39523FFB.F285742C@info2000.net> References: <39523FFB.F285742C@info2000.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:48:55 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" To: tsleber@info2000.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: [Fwd: FW: About your health] Resent-Message-ID: <"kC66I1.0.cM6.CFaKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com FIRST STEP when you receive such an e-mailed "warning" is to check (a) A Virus Hoax Center, such as http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html (b) The Snopes Urban Legend site at http://www.snopes.com ADD THESE TO YOUR BOOKMARK LIST NOW > "A gift for you from the Klingerman Foundation." This warning is clearly identified as a hoax in the latter reference: http://www.snopes.com/toxins/klinger.htm The SECOND STEP is one that I take -- and that is to disseminate the information about the FIRST STEP, in the hope of reducing the number of unverified e-mails of this nature. Edwin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 10:50:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23203; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:49:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:49:30 -0700 Message-ID: <20000622174837.27124.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.244] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:48:37 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"FGz_W.0.ff5.a6bKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Test Yer Metal Is there a simple test I can do to test foils to differentiate between aluminum and tin, etc. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 11:07:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00803; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:06:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:06:57 -0700 Message-ID: <005f01bfdc75$05366b00$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <39523FFB.F285742C@info2000.net> <200006221148550290.00EC92CC@mail.texas.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: [Fwd: FW: About your health] Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:09:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"tf9YL2.0.JC.0NbKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How do you bookmark these links you gave? ----- Original Message ----- From: Edwin Wise To: ; Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: [Fwd: FW: About your health] > > > FIRST STEP when you receive such an e-mailed "warning" is to check > > (a) A Virus Hoax Center, such as http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html > > (b) The Snopes Urban Legend site at http://www.snopes.com > > ADD THESE TO YOUR BOOKMARK LIST NOW > > > "A gift for you from the Klingerman Foundation." > > This warning is clearly identified as a hoax in the latter reference: > > http://www.snopes.com/toxins/klinger.htm > > The SECOND STEP is one that I take -- and that is to disseminate the > information about the FIRST STEP, in the hope of reducing the number of > unverified e-mails of this nature. > > Edwin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 11:10:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02532; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:09:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:09:48 -0700 Message-ID: <006401bfdc75$68e6be20$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <20000622174837.27124.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Test Yer Metal Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:12:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"wbp213.0.Md.ePbKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com For me my tin foil is limpish and clingy where as the aluminum is stiff and relatively stronger than the aluminum besides of which the tin was easier to cut and produced less tears in the foil when cut. Hope this helps. ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Cain To: Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 1:48 PM Subject: [FG]: Test Yer Metal > Is there a simple test I can do to test foils to differentiate between > aluminum and tin, etc. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 11:15:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04658; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:14:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:14:57 -0700 Message-ID: <395257B0.73A7BA51@info2000.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:15:12 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: [Fwd: FW: About your health] References: <39523FFB.F285742C@info2000.net> <200006221148550290.00EC92CC@mail.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iB8at1.0.g81.WUbKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks Edwin, I apologize for sending the Klingerman warning to the group. Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 11:43:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16619; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:43:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:43:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20000622184228.15092.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.244] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Test Yer Metal Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:42:28 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"35iWT2.0.P34.zubKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com After posting that message the thought came to me "how stupid, soldier sticks to tin", potentially one of the "good" reasons for using it. A local company used several different kinds of foil to test some static dissipating ideas and it seems I've come into possession of some unidentifiable small rolls of material, mostly appears to be aluminum, but I'm hoping! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 12:06:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26058; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:57:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:57:43 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FizNA2.0.tM6.o6cKv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: playing with diamagnet maglev Hey, check out M. Lamb's cool page on passive diamagnetic levitation: http://users2.50megs.com/diamagnetics/ Maglev-based Seismograph http://users2.50megs.com/diamagnetics/page014.html John Lahr's page http://www.lahr.org/john-jan/physics/maglev/magnet.html Scitoys: maglev http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/suspension.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 12:11:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27890; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:10:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:10:58 -0700 Message-ID: <007101bfdc73$8ef601e0$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <39EC378B@operamail.com> <39522488.AF0466AC@harti.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:58:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"rtiIp1.0.Sp6.2JcKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Quantum Tunnelling Hi All Has anyone thought about utilising quantum tunnelling to effect a FREENRG device? I was thinking about some sort of charge separation device. The recently publicised FTL experiments have got me thinking about this, but I have had trouble finding out any infomation, apart from dumbed down media reports. Anyone know anything about this. ...David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 12:21:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA32368; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:20:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:20:49 -0700 Message-ID: <011001bfdd16$1c823ea0$f70110ac@NYPENTIUM> From: "toby" To: References: <20000621173318.97047.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:50:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"ypxpC.0.Dv7.GScKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: The Morton Effect ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Cain" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:33 AM Subject: [FG]: The Morton Effect > Has there been any recent work by Charles R. Morton, is there any further > information on the "Space Warp 1". I am especially interested in his models > and how the information might be related to the Grav-Cap. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 12:39:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA09413; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:39:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:39:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:39:15 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Test Yer Metal In-Reply-To: <20000622174837.27124.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PxtJL.0.-I2.djcKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > Is there a simple test I can do to test foils to differentiate between > aluminum and tin, etc. Well, tin is soft and mushy like lead. If you pull on it, it stretches first before tearing. Wad it up and it feels like cold putty. Bend it with a fingertip, and it stays where you put it. It feels like a thin, cold, wet noodle. It makes no crinkling sound, and appears to behave as a good sound-dampener. Wiggle a piece of tin foil and it makes little sound. Tap it with your fingernail and tin foil goes "thunk". Tap upon aluminum foil and it goes "twannnnnng". Wiggle the Al foil and it makes all kinds of noises. Bend Al foil with a fingertip and it mostly returns to its original shape, like a spring. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 12:42:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10867; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:41:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:41:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:41:18 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Test Yer Metal In-Reply-To: <20000622184228.15092.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0v-f42.0.hf2.blcKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > After posting that message the thought came to me "how stupid, soldier > sticks to tin", potentially one of the "good" reasons for using it. And solder IS tin. If you touch a soldering iron to tin foil, the foil vanishes (melts.) It's like trying to solder cellophane. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 17:22:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02443; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:22:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:22:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:22:23 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"riDNu3.0.yb.2tgKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:18:55 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: clifford luckiesh Cc: freenrg@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, clifford luckiesh wrote: > I have let a friend barrow my little GC and using his own 200KV VDG that > he bought from Edmond scientific, he was unable to get it to work. But on my > 200KV VDG that I built that is a copy of his, the GC works fine. The set ups > in my garage and his are practically the same. He is using my completed GC > including the hookup wires and resistors. He brought it back and we hooked > it up in my garage and it worked just fine and even lifted itself up. Then > taken it back to his place and again nothing happened. > > Do you have any ideas on this odd puzzle? AHA! I was afraid of this. Very often a "weird science" device will mysteriously stop working. Or, when somebody else follows detailed plans to build a devices, the device will not work. Maybe location on the earth is important? What if there are "dead zones" where antigravity and free energy are suppressed? If so, then some researchers will only have success until they take their machine out of the workshop for a demonstration somewhere else. Other researchers will never have any success at all, since they live in a "bad" spot. But first, I would suggest that you test both VandeGraaff machines while both of them are in your garage. Maybe yours will lift the capacitor and his does not? If so, then this proves that there's just something different about his VDG generator. If both machines do make the capacitor lift up while in your garage, then you know that the cause of the problem is not in the VandeGraaff generators. If you have ambition, you could take both machines to HIS place, then see if NEITHER machine can longer lift the capacitor. If this proves to be the case, then the location is causing problems. (But perhaps his location simply has high humidity, or strong radio signals from nearby transmitters, or something else which is from conventional physics and not "aether physics.") ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 17:45:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12593; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:44:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:44:27 -0700 From: Fucian@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:44:14 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Evolutionary Babble... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"K7dwF2.0.f43.hBhKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If we didnt evolve,how did we get here?God is the only resonable answer.The BIBLE has been proven true so many times.People reject the idea of GOD because we dont want to be convicted and dont want to answer to someone like Him.Even NASA astronauts claimed seeing things that looked liked angels go by down to earth.All I can say is when God comes back,remeber I was right. matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 17:48:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA14667; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:48:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:48:17 -0700 From: Fucian@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:47:37 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"VnEEX3.0.ua3.FFhKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Why on earth would God use that?HE says in the Bible he did it in 7 days.That just says God is not good enough to do it.We dont try to disprove sci. with the Bible,we use sci. to prove the Bible.God is a master scientist. matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 17:51:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16174; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:50:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:50:25 -0700 From: Fucian@aol.com Message-ID: <77.5c8b44b.26840e28@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:49:44 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: ION RAY GUN--please help To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Resent-Message-ID: <"8_z4T1.0.dy3.HHhKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, im very accostomed to the flyback.I use only one transistor tho.for the multiplier,is a tv cascade ok? matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 21:11:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18373; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:11:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:11:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20000623041037.44562.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.78] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: ION RAY GUN--please help Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:10:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"BcMVw2.0.yU4.TDkKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tv multipliers are fine, just keep in mind that the more stages you have the higher the end voltage will be. Tim ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 22 21:27:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23324; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:26:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:26:45 -0700 Message-ID: <028401bfdccb$09f842c0$8bd3d8c1@trn10203> From: "San" To: Subject: [FG]: Electroplating grav-cap plates! Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 06:25:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0281_01BFDCDB.CCC0D000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Wropi.0.Li5.4SkKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0281_01BFDCDB.CCC0D000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carbon[graphite) conducts electricity, black&white laser-printers use = carbon as a pigment. Overhead transparencies (usualy made out of lexan) made for use in = laser-printers and photo-copiers are readily availiable. The following formula is for copperplating but you can probably replace = the copper sulfate with any methal-salt (tinn sulfate / bismuth sulfate = / magnesium sulfate etc.) 25 ounces copper sulfate 6 ounces sulfuric acid 1 gallon distilled water WARNING: When mixing the sulfuric acid pour the acid into the = water....NEVER POUR WATER INTO ACID (this will cause the acid to ripp the water mollecules = apart causing a nice explosion splattering the=20 acid all-over-the-place and will quite possibly burn = your face of in the process) TAKE THIS WARNING SERIOUSLY Connect the negative lead of a 2-5 volt battery or transformer to the = part being plated, connect the possitive lead to a copper electrode with = a large surfac-area. Submerge this into the plating liquid the part to be plate should be = facing (but not touching) the electrode. The plating sollution should be kept warm while the plating process = takes place(place it on a radiator). You will over the next few hours see a copper layer start to form over = the printed portion of the transparencie. PS:I have only tried this with copper so it is possible that a different = electrode material is necesary for the other metal sulfates (althoug I = doubt it), also note that plating carbon is a less reliable (and slower) = process than plating a conductive metal part. = San PS2: The metal salts are usualy availiable from your local pharmacy!! ------=_NextPart_000_0281_01BFDCDB.CCC0D000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Carbon[graphite) conducts electricity,=20 black&white laser-printers use carbon as a pigment.
Overhead transparencies (usualy made = out of lexan)=20 made for use in laser-printers and photo-copiers are readily=20 availiable.
 
The following formula is for = copperplating but you=20 can probably replace the copper sulfate with any methal-salt (tinn = sulfate /=20 bismuth sulfate / magnesium sulfate etc.)
 
25 ounces copper sulfate
 6  ounces sulfuric = acid
 1  gallon distilled = water
WARNING: When=20 mixing the sulfuric acid pour the acid into the water....NEVER POUR WATER INTO ACID
          &nbs= p;      =20 (this will cause the acid to ripp the water = mollecules apart=20 causing a nice explosion splattering the
         &n= bsp;         acid=20 all-over-the-place and will quite possibly burn your face of in the=20 process)
                   &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; TAKE THIS WARNING SERIOUSLY
 
Connect the negative lead of a 2-5 volt = battery or=20 transformer to the part being plated, connect the possitive lead to a = copper=20 electrode with a large surfac-area.
Submerge this into the plating liquid = the part to=20 be plate should be facing (but not touching) the electrode.
The plating sollution should be kept = warm while the=20 plating process takes place(place it on a radiator).
 
You will over the next few hours see a = copper layer=20 start to form over the printed portion of the = transparencie.
 
PS:I have only tried this with copper = so it is=20 possible that a different electrode material is necesary for the other = metal=20 sulfates (althoug I doubt it), also note that plating carbon is a less = reliable=20 (and slower) process than plating a conductive metal part.
 
 
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            = San
 
PS2: The metal salts are usualy availiable from your local=20 pharmacy!!
------=_NextPart_000_0281_01BFDCDB.CCC0D000-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 00:23:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA02229; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:22:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:22:22 -0700 Message-ID: <39530C2D.8C47E30@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:05:17 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <20000622184228.15092.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sQWSN3.0.YY.k0nKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [Energy Misdefined and Scientific Proof of Spirit World Existence.] http://nov55.com/ener.html comments from anyone on the above URL? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 08:54:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00387; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:54:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:54:06 -0700 Message-ID: <20000623155333.7246.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.200] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electroplating grav-cap plates! Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:53:33 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"LEXrl3.0.q5.TWuKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have developed some ideas of what might make a good plate material for a Grav-Cap and one of those materials is Carbon. Looking at the periodic table, Tin has 4 electrons in its outer orbit as does Carbon and Lead. There is some speculation Bismuth may be a better plate material and it has 5 electrons in its outer orbit opposed to Aluminum's 3. This was all speculation baseing the Caps performance on the electron configuration. If the effect is based on the weight of the nucleous, Carbon would run a distant forth. I've just printed some "Grav-Cap Plate" images onto transparancy material and will test them for continuity while "out to lunch". Also: We hear that Stonehenge and the Pyrimids were built in special "alignments", ED LEEDSKALNIN had to find just the right spot on the face of the Earth to place the Coral Castle, just suppose the working of the Grav-Cap is dependent on where you happen to be! Bummer. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 10:30:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15742; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20000623172208.46679.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.200] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electroplating grav-cap plates! Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:22:08 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"frLw_3.0.sr3.xpvKv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Just tested laser printer transparancies for conductivity, with the multimeter set at Rx1 there was no response. I tested this on a sheet that had been printed once and also on a sheet that had been through the printer twice (substantially darker) neither show any response. I suspect the pigment is encapsulated in some kind of plastic that inhibits the conductivity. on the other hand I remember something about there being foil printing sheets available for a laser printer, hummmmmmmmm. >From: "Colin Cain" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Electroplating grav-cap plates! >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:53:33 GMT > >I have developed some ideas of what might make a good plate material for a >Grav-Cap and one of those materials is Carbon. Looking at the periodic >table, Tin has 4 electrons in its outer orbit as does Carbon and Lead. >There is some speculation Bismuth may be a better plate material and it has >5 electrons in its outer orbit opposed to Aluminum's 3. This was all >speculation baseing the Caps performance on the electron configuration. If >the effect is based on the weight of the nucleous, Carbon would run a >distant forth. I've just printed some "Grav-Cap Plate" images onto >transparancy material and will test them for continuity while "out to >lunch". >Also: >We hear that Stonehenge and the Pyrimids were built in special >"alignments", >ED LEEDSKALNIN had to find just the right spot on the face of the Earth to >place the Coral Castle, just suppose the working of the Grav-Cap is >dependent on where you happen to be! Bummer. >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 11:03:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23752; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:02:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:02:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3953A62C.62D4B743@netzero.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:02:20 -0700 From: blue_eyes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electroplating grav-cap plates! References: <20000623172208.46679.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zEx3F.0.qo5.yOwKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I believe the toner used in the Xerographic process as implemented in most copiers and laser printers is just a powdered plastic. David Colin Cain wrote: > I suspect the > pigment is encapsulated in some kind of plastic that inhibits the > conductivity. > _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 11:11:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28205; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:10:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:10:54 -0700 Message-ID: <20000623181013.22943.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.200] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electroplating grav-cap plates! Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:10:13 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"VX2hw1.0.Tu6.jWwKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: blue_eyes > >I believe the toner used in the Xerographic process as implemented >in most copiers and laser printers is just a powdered plastic. > >David > Yes, a very finely powdered plastic pigmented with carbon black. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 12:10:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21938; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:10:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:10:21 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:12:48 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA21910 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZW6TP.0.YM5.TOxKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (6/23/2000) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 (480) 657-3722 josephnewman@earthlink.net www.josephnewman.com FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (6/23/2000) Oil prices are criminally high at this time! The latest Newman Production Motor now demonstrates more than 260% efficiency by power out on the shaft of the Newman Motor/Generator. The following is a description of the use of a practical load that lay people, as well as technical people, can relate to: "AIR DYNAMOMETER" as sold in the form of a 5-foot diameter, 80-lb fan blade and as described in the Grainger Catalog, Part No. 3C200, and manufactured by Dayton ---- Dayton-tested data as to RPM and needed HP: RPM HP 300 1.5 330 2.0 Photo 1 Photo 2 380 3.0 450 5.0 The Newman Motor/Generator turned the 80-lb fan blade at 300 RPMs and drew only 300 watts. Those results ignore pulley belt losses and losses in the Motor/Generator. The results also ignore the back-EMF into the battery pack as verified by storage oscilloscope. Graph 1 Graph 1 The above graphs are based upon statistics provided by the Dayton, Corp. as published by the Grainger catalog. According to DAYTON's own statistics, it requires a 1,119 watt input to operate the DAYTON AIR DYNAMOMETER (60"Fan/80-lb Fan Blade, Part No. 3C200) at 300 RPMs, yet the Newman Motor spins the AIR DYNAMOMETER Fan Blades at 300 RPMs and draws only 300 watts!!! Representatives of a large manufacturing company requested seeing such a practical application of the technology for their own extensive requirements. Milton Everett (Mechanical Engineer, Ret.) and Dr. A. Swimmer, PhD (Professor of Mathematics) both gladly made a graph of the tested numbers above that were provided by Dayton with respect to the AIR DYNAMOMETER. Interestingly, the curve that was plotted made an even, steady curve and provided exacting RPM as to the needed Horsepower from 0 to 450 RPMs. The results obtained should stimulate other large companies to contact me to solve their requirements. The Newman Motor/Generator is totally "unbiased" with respect to the fact that it will run any load. To all honest individuals -- I have recently received documented information that Ingalls Shipyards is now contracting with several companies to build electric motors to power ships. See the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING magazine article (April 2000 issue) entitled, "NAVAL SUPERPOWER --- WILL BISMUTH RULE THE WAVES?" The article describes how a new generation of electric motors will be used to power military ships. Fact: Large electric motors have long been known to operate in the high 90% efficiency range. Question: How then does the U.S. Navy claim "SUPERPOWER"? Why did the U. S. Navy order numerous copies of my fundamental book over the years? Why did a top naval Admiral send police to my home that stated that the Admiral wanted to send a plane to my area to bring me to his office? I arranged for the Admiral to send a high-ranking scientist to my laboratory and Mechanical Engineer Milton Everett was a witness to the fact that the scientist specifically stated that he was very impressed with my energy machine technology. The five-page, April 2000 article in MECHANICAL ENGINEERING further proves that the energy machine of Joseph Newman works. Now the U. S. Government is spending millions of taxpayer's monies to build special electromagnetic motors that achieve astounding results. The same corrupt U.S. Government (that is effectively controlled by "old boy networks influenced by 'hell'") that told you for years that Joseph Newman's magnetic energy machine did not work is now using Joseph Newman's plundered technology to power naval vessels. People: when will you rise up and support my life's efforts for you? The conspiracy has been against ALL of you, more than just mere me. If you believe in God or Truth, join me. Remember the old saying: "For evil to exist, it only entails that good people do nothing." Copies of said graphs are available for companies interested in ordering Motor/Generators from me for their own energy saving needs and to save the energy dollars that they are presently paying to the Power Brokers. Note:Comments on page 5 of the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING article totally disprove comments made by then National Bureau of Standards (now-NIST) so-called expert Jacob Rabinow who explicitly stated in writing: "The Newman Machine would be highly inefficient WITHOUT IRON when used strictly as a Motor --- less than 10% (efficient)." Now read the following quotation from page 5 of the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING magazine article: "NO MORE WINDING SLOTS "REMOVING IRON teeth dispenses with the need for winding slots. That yields several advantages. It eliminates the 'cogging torque,' which Whitcomb called a significant source of radiated noise. LESS IRON equates to less synchronous and subtransient reactance as well, enhancing a machine's transient stability. Power density improves after the IRON COMES OUT since more space can be set aside for WINDINGS." (Emphasis added.) The above quotation matches statements from my fundamental book first published in 1984, from my original Patent Applications, and its application eliminates hysteresis losses associated with iron. For honest and sincere individuals wishing to help financially with production of the technology or for companies seeking to place orders for their own requirements who wish to have a personal demonstration of the technology, email your request to Evan Soulé at josephnewman@earthlink.net or call my number at: (480) 657-3722 to schedule a demonstration --- by appointment only. Power to the people, [Signed] Joseph Westley Newman www.josephnewman.com _____________________________________________________ To view the Photographs and Graphs referenced above, please visit the specific webpage: http://www.josephnewman.com/test_results.html or via the general website introductory page: www.josephnewman.com Thank you! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 12:13:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24332; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:12:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:12:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3953B6AC.DBBB2D2@netzero.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:12:44 -0700 From: blue_eyes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electroplating grav-cap plates! References: <20000623181013.22943.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cWiOu1.0.1y5.tQxKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes, that is what I figured. For that matter, I am not aware of any other material in general use that is used for making something look black. Although high concentrations of some colors have the appearance of black. David Colin Cain wrote: > > Yes, a very finely powdered plastic pigmented with carbon black. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 12:24:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29873; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:23:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:23:51 -0700 Message-ID: <006201bfdd48$efa958e0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:26:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"jMJ6b3.0.gI7.7bxKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This could still be used if this proves to be the case in that lift could be generated and then glide between lift areas which may be lines. Someone mentioned Ed Leedskalnin who built Coral Castle. They said he built in a special location well he also moved it. That makes me skeptical of both areas being just right several miles apart. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:18:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: William Beaty > To: clifford luckiesh > Cc: freenrg@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor > > On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, clifford luckiesh wrote: > > > I have let a friend barrow my little GC and using his own 200KV VDG that > > he bought from Edmond scientific, he was unable to get it to work. But on my > > 200KV VDG that I built that is a copy of his, the GC works fine. The set ups > > in my garage and his are practically the same. He is using my completed GC > > including the hookup wires and resistors. He brought it back and we hooked > > it up in my garage and it worked just fine and even lifted itself up. Then > > taken it back to his place and again nothing happened. > > > > Do you have any ideas on this odd puzzle? > > AHA! I was afraid of this. Very often a "weird science" device will > mysteriously stop working. Or, when somebody else follows detailed plans > to build a devices, the device will not work. Maybe location on the earth > is important? What if there are "dead zones" where antigravity and free > energy are suppressed? If so, then some researchers will only have > success until they take their machine out of the workshop for a > demonstration somewhere else. Other researchers will never have any > success at all, since they live in a "bad" spot. > > But first, I would suggest that you test both VandeGraaff machines while > both of them are in your garage. Maybe yours will lift the capacitor and > his does not? If so, then this proves that there's just something > different about his VDG generator. > > If both machines do make the capacitor lift up while in your garage, then > you know that the cause of the problem is not in the VandeGraaff > generators. If you have ambition, you could take both machines to HIS > place, then see if NEITHER machine can longer lift the capacitor. If this > proves to be the case, then the location is causing problems. (But > perhaps his location simply has high humidity, or strong radio signals > from nearby transmitters, or something else which is from conventional > physics and not "aether physics.") > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 12:29:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA00421; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:29:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:29:05 -0700 Message-ID: <006301bfdd49$ab722980$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <004b01bfd53b$27886460$96d2989e@dave> Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:31:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"5ssJl.0.U6.1gxKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com David, Your comments indicate you are not remembering something the complex proteins could not be formed in the first place because of the LAW of Entropy. I was also a Mathematics major in college getting a B.S. In probability and statistics I was surprised, no stunned at the infinitesimal chance you have of getting 10 things to happen in just the right order. To get the many things for just one DNA is impossible and for the millions of different species of life on earth it is impossible times impossible. I am sorry but I am too much of a scientist to swallow a theory that flies in the face of so much science, mathematics, and just good old common sense. > > it either. Look at all the complex things that > have to happen to form > >dna. Protein itself is incredibly complex and you > need about fifty diferent > > types of proteins to form into a double helix in > a complex pattern and thern > > just look at the complexity of a cell. How can > blind chance create something > > as amazing and unique as that. Anything beyond > one chance in 10-14 (10 to > > the power of 14) is impossible. Then chances of > a single cell being created > > is far beyond that number. > > ***The fifty or so amino acids (proteins) you > mention are common throughout the universe. It is > easy to look at a complex system such as DNA and > conclude that it could not be created by blind > chance. Richard Dawkins, in his book 'Climbing > Mount Improbable', provides excellent insights > into how complex life systems came into being. > > ***Proteins can perform just about any chemical > process in the right conditions. I find the > unknown > path from self replicating protein to cell based > 'organism' easier to swallow than any deity based > theory. DNA is, in essence, the most successful > self-replicating protein, achieving this by > engineering huge 'vehicles' to propogate itself. > > ***Would you call any of the known (simple) > self replicating proteins life? If not, why? > You could say that the self replicating protein is > a higher form of life than a virus, because a > virus > cannot self-replicate without a host. > > Best regards > David Callaghan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 12:31:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02771; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:31:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:31:01 -0700 Message-ID: <006901bfdd49$f0658780$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <004b01bfd53b$27886460$96d2989e@dave> Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:33:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"lzQlB1.0.Ch.rhxKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sorry list, I meant to send the previous email reply privately. Sam Garza ----- Original Message ----- From: David Callaghan To: Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:01 AM Subject: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect > Hi Matthew > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Demon Killah" > > > foot across. I must conclude that the universe > was caused by an uncaused > > cause. > ***We are a long way from 'knowing' how the > universe was created, if at all. > > > it either. Look at all the complex things that > have to happen to form > >dna. Protein itself is incredibly complex and you > need about fifty diferent > > types of proteins to form into a double helix in > a complex pattern and thern > > just look at the complexity of a cell. How can > blind chance create something > > as amazing and unique as that. Anything beyond > one chance in 10-14 (10 to > > the power of 14) is impossible. Then chances of > a single cell being created > > is far beyond that number. > > ***The fifty or so amino acids (proteins) you > mention are common throughout the universe. It is > easy to look at a complex system such as DNA and > conclude that it could not be created by blind > chance. Richard Dawkins, in his book 'Climbing > Mount Improbable', provides excellent insights > into how complex life systems came into being. > > ***Proteins can perform just about any chemical > process in the right conditions. I find the > unknown > path from self replicating protein to cell based > 'organism' easier to swallow than any deity based > theory. DNA is, in essence, the most successful > self-replicating protein, achieving this by > engineering huge 'vehicles' to propogate itself. > > ***Would you call any of the known (simple) > self replicating proteins life? If not, why? > You could say that the self replicating protein is > a higher form of life than a virus, because a > virus > cannot self-replicate without a host. > > Best regards > David Callaghan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 12:43:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08163; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:42:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:42:14 -0700 Message-ID: <200006231440380980.017456CA@mail.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <006301bfdd49$ab722980$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> References: <004b01bfd53b$27886460$96d2989e@dave> <006301bfdd49$ab722980$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:40:38 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: [OFF TOPIC} Cause and effect Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"GzOx51.0.K_1.MsxKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 6/23/00, at 3:31 PM, Sam Garza wrote: >Your comments indicate you are not remembering something the complex >proteins could not be formed in the first place because of the LAW of >Entropy. And you are forgetting that the LAW of Entropy only applies to a closed system; in an open, pumped system, the dynamics of Chaos are turned loose. Edwin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 12:47:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10567; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:46:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:46:10 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:45:17 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_d3.624a7c2.2685184d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"06TzG2.0.na2.2wxKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Kinetic energy and neutralized magnetic forces --part1_d3.624a7c2.2685184d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The attached drawing is a rotating device with a magnet pair at each end of a rod. The magnet pair has NEUTRALIZED forces because the ATTRACTION and REPULSION forces are equal but opposite. The pole faces are flush when rotation starts. When the rotation speed is high enough so that the ATTRACTION force of the magnets is exceeded, the outside bar and magnets are released. The magnets in REPULSION add to the kinetic energy of the released object. All energy put into the system is now in the form of kinetic energy with the ADDITIONAL energy supplied by the REPULSION magnets. Comments, Butch --part1_d3.624a7c2.2685184d_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="VECTORS.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="VECTORS.gif" R0lGODdhwQLsAfcAAAAAAHt7e729vf8AAP////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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--part1_d3.624a7c2.2685184d_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 12:53:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15641; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:52:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:52:30 -0700 Message-ID: <20000623195158.78947.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.200] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:51:57 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"gtmQS2.0.8q3.-_xKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com As with any new device of which we have little or no understanding any possible number of variables may defeat its operation. I'm more inclined to believe if this device does work, it operates in some way with the background electrostatic field of the universe, possibly affected by local field variations, but not to the point of ineffectiveness. If it is a workable device and it only works in some areas think of how the property values will skyrocket (no pun intended). one story that was related to me was that Ed searched for a place with a better "energy flow" to move to. >From: "Sam Garza" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:26:30 -0400 > >This could still be used if this proves to be the case in that lift could >be >generated and then glide between lift areas which may be lines. Someone >mentioned Ed Leedskalnin who built Coral Castle. They said he built in a >special location well he also moved it. That makes me skeptical of both >areas being just right several miles apart. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 14:21:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19352; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:21:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:21:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3953D5A3.922136CA@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:24:53 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (6/23/2000) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TfA2B.0.Gk4.xIzKv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Are we accepting advertisements now? I have an old television I'd like to get rid of....... MJ Evan Soule wrote: > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN > 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 > Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 > (480) 657-3722 > josephnewman@earthlink.net > www.josephnewman.com > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (6/23/2000) > > Oil prices are criminally high at this time! > > The latest Newman Production Motor now demonstrates > more than 260% efficiency by power out on the shaft > of the Newman Motor/Generator. > > The following is a description of the use of a > practical load that lay people, as well as technical > people, can relate to: > > "AIR DYNAMOMETER" as sold in the form of a 5-foot > diameter, 80-lb fan blade and as described in the > Grainger Catalog, Part No. 3C200, and manufactured by > Dayton ---- > > Dayton-tested data as to RPM and needed HP: > > RPM HP > 300 1.5 > 330 2.0 Photo 1 Photo 2 > 380 3.0 > 450 5.0 > > The Newman Motor/Generator turned the 80-lb fan blade > at 300 RPMs and drew only 300 watts. Those results > ignore pulley belt losses and losses in the > Motor/Generator. The results also ignore the back-EMF > into the battery pack as verified by storage > oscilloscope. > > Graph 1 Graph 1 > > The above graphs are based upon statistics provided > by the Dayton, Corp. as published by the Grainger > catalog. According to DAYTON's own statistics, it > requires a 1,119 watt input to operate the DAYTON AIR > DYNAMOMETER (60"Fan/80-lb Fan Blade, Part No. 3C200) > at 300 RPMs, yet the Newman Motor spins the AIR > DYNAMOMETER Fan Blades at 300 RPMs and draws only 300 > watts!!! > > Representatives of a large manufacturing company > requested seeing such a practical application of the > technology for their own extensive requirements. > > Milton Everett (Mechanical Engineer, Ret.) and Dr. A. > Swimmer, PhD (Professor of Mathematics) both gladly > made a graph of the tested numbers above that were > provided by Dayton with respect to the AIR DYNAMOMETER. > > Interestingly, the curve that was plotted made an > even, steady curve and provided exacting RPM as to the > needed Horsepower from 0 to 450 RPMs. > > The results obtained should stimulate other large > companies to contact me to solve their requirements. > The Newman Motor/Generator is totally "unbiased" with > respect to the fact that it will run any load. > > To all honest individuals -- I have recently received > documented information that Ingalls Shipyards is now > contracting with several companies to build electric > motors to power ships. See the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING > magazine article (April 2000 issue) entitled, "NAVAL > SUPERPOWER --- WILL BISMUTH RULE THE WAVES?" The > article describes how a new generation of electric > motors will be used to power military ships. > > Fact: Large electric motors have long been known to > operate in the high 90% efficiency range. Question: > How then does the U.S. Navy claim "SUPERPOWER"? Why > did the U. S. Navy order numerous copies of my > fundamental book over the years? Why did a top naval > Admiral send police to my home that stated that the > Admiral wanted to send a plane to my area to bring me > to his office? I arranged for the Admiral to send a > high-ranking scientist to my laboratory and Mechanical > Engineer Milton Everett was a witness to the fact that > the scientist specifically stated that he was very > impressed with my energy machine technology. > > The five-page, April 2000 article in MECHANICAL > ENGINEERING further proves that the energy machine of > Joseph Newman works. Now the U. S. Government is > spending millions of taxpayer's monies to build > special electromagnetic motors that achieve astounding > results. > > The same corrupt U.S. Government (that is effectively > controlled by "old boy networks influenced by 'hell'") > that told you for years that Joseph Newman's magnetic > energy machine did not work is now using Joseph > Newman's plundered technology to power naval vessels. > > People: when will you rise up and support my life's > efforts for you? The conspiracy has been against ALL > of you, more than just mere me. If you believe in God > or Truth, join me. Remember the old saying: "For evil > to exist, it only entails that good people do nothing." > > Copies of said graphs are available for companies > interested in ordering Motor/Generators from me for > their own energy saving needs and to save the energy > dollars that they are presently paying to the Power > Brokers. > > Note:Comments on page 5 of the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING > article totally disprove comments made by then > National Bureau of Standards (now-NIST) so-called > expert Jacob Rabinow who explicitly stated in writing: > "The Newman Machine would be highly inefficient > WITHOUT IRON when used strictly as a Motor --- less > than 10% (efficient)." Now read the following > quotation from page 5 of the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING > magazine article: > > "NO MORE WINDING SLOTS > > "REMOVING IRON teeth dispenses with the need for > winding slots. That yields several advantages. It > eliminates the 'cogging torque,' which Whitcomb > called a significant source of radiated noise. LESS > IRON equates to less synchronous and subtransient > reactance as well, enhancing a machine's transient > stability. Power density improves after the IRON > COMES OUT since more space can be set aside for > WINDINGS." (Emphasis added.) > > The above quotation matches statements from my > fundamental book first published in 1984, from my > original Patent Applications, and its application > eliminates hysteresis losses associated with iron. > > For honest and sincere individuals wishing to help > financially with production of the technology or for > companies seeking to place orders for their own > requirements who wish to have a personal demonstration > of the technology, email your request to Evan Soulé at > josephnewman@earthlink.net or call my number at: > (480) 657-3722 to schedule a demonstration --- > by appointment only. > > Power to the people, > > [Signed] > Joseph Westley Newman > > www.josephnewman.com > > _____________________________________________________ > > To view the Photographs and Graphs referenced above, > please visit the specific webpage: > > http://www.josephnewman.com/test_results.html > > or via the general website introductory page: > > www.josephnewman.com > > Thank you! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 17:47:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA32473; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:46:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:46:53 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bfdd73$2a311320$063dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <20000623195158.78947.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:27:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"-OunC.0.Ex7.zJ0Lv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello, all; The motif of "it works here, but it won't work there" pops up often enough that one might suspect it is a subcategory of the more general problem of pseudo-reproducibility. I think that many of us have had experiments, or know of experiments, that really worked well, and seemed free of artifact; then BOOM, the effect vanished, never to be found again. Makes for a darned hard time convincing the world at large. The geographic factor may be less problematic. Of course, the critical view would say that we need to consider all of the natural phenomena we DO understand, or at least use on a daily basis, and evaluate how many of these tried and true relationships are so maverick as to their location. Not many, one would presume. This view would by extension say that those who continue to claim these sorts of results are either missing an artifact, or hoaxing. On the other hand, we look at a solar cell, and find that if one holds it indoors, or under a shady maple tree, it produces very little electrical current. But then, step into a sunbeam, and WOW! Geographical dependence at work... As I said, it may be less problematic than the usual "vanishing effect" syndrome. It does, however, require the experimenter to define the extent of the active area of effect! If the gravity cap of Mr. C does work (and I remain skeptical, but open), then he absolutely must define and characterize the geographic factor, by making his apparatus, or an instrument sized version, mobile. Face it, if he or others can do this, then by examining the areas of active effect carefully, and correlating it to all sorts of other local ambient conditions, we allow for tremendous advances in the understanding of the core phenomenon. Time is a major player here. If the weeks go by, and no other successful replications of C's claims are found at ANY location, then sadly we move asymptotically toward the conclusion of artifact / hoax. Each of us reaches our satisfaction point individually. My version of the unit, made with sputtered Cr-Al ring patterns on mylar sheets, did nothing detectable (last word is key) from zero to 15 kV. Was it my location? (back room of the lab, in Perrysburg, Ohio) Even the hardest stiff necks of science must sometimes follow their hunches. My hunch is that ZPE or gravity coupled effects will likely show some degree of variance with location. But probably not to the extent claimed in C's story. Honest and open attempts at replication are the only answer. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Cain" To: Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) > As with any new device of which we have little or no understanding any > possible number of variables may defeat its operation. I'm more inclined to > believe if this device does work, it operates in some way with the > background electrostatic field of the universe, possibly affected by local > field variations, but not to the point of ineffectiveness. If it is a > workable device and it only works in some areas think of how the property > values will skyrocket (no pun intended). > > one story that was related to me was that Ed searched for a place with a > better "energy flow" to move to. > > > >From: "Sam Garza" > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) > >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:26:30 -0400 > > > >This could still be used if this proves to be the case in that lift could > >be > >generated and then glide between lift areas which may be lines. Someone > >mentioned Ed Leedskalnin who built Coral Castle. They said he built in a > >special location well he also moved it. That makes me skeptical of both > >areas being just right several miles apart. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 19:35:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA04920; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:34:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:34:51 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:34:21 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"OT4HZ2.0.jC1.Bv1Lv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Operation revision kinetic energy device The attached drawing is of a rotating device with a magnet pair at each end of a rod. The ATTRACTION magnets are allowed to pull together and do work before rotation starts. The REPULSION magnets are brought together my increasing the RPM of the device till the REPULSION magnets poles are flush. The cross connecting bar is now put in place. The magnet pair now has NEUTRALIZED forces because the ATTRACTION and REPULSION forces are equal but opposite. When the rotation speed is high enough so that the ATTRACTION force of the magnets is exceeded, the OUTSIDE bar and magnets are released. The magnets in REPULSION add to the kinetic energy of the released object. All energy put into the system is now in the form of kinetic energy with the ADDITIONAL energy supplied by the REPULSION magnets. Comments, Butch Drawing is on web page > LaFonte Research Site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 19:38:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA06485; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:38:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:38:00 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01bfdd85$0622dc40$76d8d9c1@trn10203> From: "San" To: Subject: [FG]: Electroplating grav-cap plates Different approach Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 04:36:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFDD95.C8B90EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"f6QRz3.0.9b1.7y1Lv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFDD95.C8B90EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An alternative to the printer approach could be to cut a rubber matt = into the patern of the grav-cap plate and using this as a stamp (glued = onto a pice of wood etc.)=20 Instead of ink one would use some sort of paint/varnish, anything = non-conductive that leaves a sticky filme before it becomes completely = dry, this sticky film can then be dusted with graphite powder (witch can = be rubbed smooth before the varnish is completely dry). When the varnish have dried the patern can be plated like described = below! The following formula is for copperplating but you can probably replace = the copper sulfate with any methal-salt (tinn sulfate / bismuth sulfate = / magnesium sulfate etc.) 25 ounces copper sulfate 6 ounces sulfuric acid 1 gallon distilled water WARNING: When mixing the sulfuric acid pour the acid into the = water....NEVER POUR WATER INTO ACID (this will cause the acid to ripp the water mollecules = apart causing a nice explosion splattering the=20 acid all-over-the-place and will quite possibly burn = your face of in the process) TAKE THIS WARNING SERIOUSLY Connect the negative lead of a 2-5 volt battery or transformer to the = part being plated, connect the possitive lead to a copper electrode with = a large surfac-area. Submerge this into the plating liquid the part to be plate should be = facing (but not touching) the electrode. The plating sollution should be kept warm while the plating process = takes place(place it on a radiator). You will over the next few hours see a copper layer start to form over = the printed portion of the transparencie. PS:I have only tried this with copper so it is possible that a different = electrode material is necesary for the other metal sulfates (althoug I = doubt it), also note that plating carbon is a less reliable (and slower) = process than plating a conductive metal part. PS2: The metal salts are usualy availiable from your local pharmacy = SAN ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFDD95.C8B90EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 An = alternative to the=20 printer approach could be to cut a rubber matt into the patern of the = grav-cap=20 plate and using this as a stamp (glued onto a pice of wood etc.)=20
Instead of ink one would use some sort of paint/varnish, anything=20 non-conductive that leaves a sticky filme before it becomes completely = dry, this=20 sticky film can then be dusted with graphite powder (witch can be rubbed = smooth=20 before the varnish is completely dry).
When the varnish have dried the patern can be plated like described = below!
 
The following formula is for = copperplating but you=20 can probably replace the copper sulfate with any methal-salt (tinn = sulfate /=20 bismuth sulfate / magnesium sulfate etc.)
 
25 ounces copper sulfate
 6  ounces sulfuric = acid
 1  gallon distilled = water
WARNING: When mixing the = sulfuric acid=20 pour the acid into the water....NEVER POUR WATER INTO=20 ACID
          &nbs= p;      =20 (this will cause the acid to ripp the water mollecules apart causing a = nice=20 explosion splattering the
         &n= bsp;         acid=20 all-over-the-place and will quite possibly burn your face of in the=20 process)
                   &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; TAKE=20 THIS WARNING SERIOUSLY
 
Connect the negative lead of a 2-5 volt = battery or=20 transformer to the part being plated, connect the possitive lead to a = copper=20 electrode with a large surfac-area.
Submerge this into the plating liquid = the part to=20 be plate should be facing (but not touching) the electrode.
The plating sollution should be kept = warm while the=20 plating process takes place(place it on a radiator).
 
You will over the next few hours see a = copper layer=20 start to form over the printed portion of the = transparencie.
 
PS:I have only tried this with copper = so it is=20 possible that a different electrode material is necesary for the other = metal=20 sulfates (althoug I doubt it), also note that plating carbon is a less = reliable=20 (and slower) process than plating a conductive metal part.
 
PS2: The metal salts are usualy availiable from your local=20 pharmacy
 
            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20            =20 SAN
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFDD95.C8B90EE0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 23 23:22:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25899; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:22:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:22:18 -0700 Message-ID: <003101bfdda3$987d00c0$f75ffea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: References: <3953D5A3.922136CA@csrlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (6/23/2000) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:15:25 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"H-9A33.0.aK6.QE5Lv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What about fashion show with the free energy models? anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnston" To: Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (6/23/2000) > Are we accepting advertisements now? I have an old television I'd like > to get rid of....... > MJ > > Evan Soule wrote: > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > > > THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN > > 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 > > Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 > > (480) 657-3722 > > josephnewman@earthlink.net > > www.josephnewman.com > > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (6/23/2000) > > > > Oil prices are criminally high at this time! > > > > The latest Newman Production Motor now demonstrates > > more than 260% efficiency by power out on the shaft > > of the Newman Motor/Generator. > > > > The following is a description of the use of a > > practical load that lay people, as well as technical > > people, can relate to: > > > > "AIR DYNAMOMETER" as sold in the form of a 5-foot > > diameter, 80-lb fan blade and as described in the > > Grainger Catalog, Part No. 3C200, and manufactured by > > Dayton ---- > > > > Dayton-tested data as to RPM and needed HP: > > > > RPM HP > > 300 1.5 > > 330 2.0 Photo 1 Photo 2 > > 380 3.0 > > 450 5.0 > > > > The Newman Motor/Generator turned the 80-lb fan blade > > at 300 RPMs and drew only 300 watts. Those results > > ignore pulley belt losses and losses in the > > Motor/Generator. The results also ignore the back-EMF > > into the battery pack as verified by storage > > oscilloscope. > > > > Graph 1 Graph 1 > > > > The above graphs are based upon statistics provided > > by the Dayton, Corp. as published by the Grainger > > catalog. According to DAYTON's own statistics, it > > requires a 1,119 watt input to operate the DAYTON AIR > > DYNAMOMETER (60"Fan/80-lb Fan Blade, Part No. 3C200) > > at 300 RPMs, yet the Newman Motor spins the AIR > > DYNAMOMETER Fan Blades at 300 RPMs and draws only 300 > > watts!!! > > > > Representatives of a large manufacturing company > > requested seeing such a practical application of the > > technology for their own extensive requirements. > > > > Milton Everett (Mechanical Engineer, Ret.) and Dr. A. > > Swimmer, PhD (Professor of Mathematics) both gladly > > made a graph of the tested numbers above that were > > provided by Dayton with respect to the AIR DYNAMOMETER. > > > > Interestingly, the curve that was plotted made an > > even, steady curve and provided exacting RPM as to the > > needed Horsepower from 0 to 450 RPMs. > > > > The results obtained should stimulate other large > > companies to contact me to solve their requirements. > > The Newman Motor/Generator is totally "unbiased" with > > respect to the fact that it will run any load. > > > > To all honest individuals -- I have recently received > > documented information that Ingalls Shipyards is now > > contracting with several companies to build electric > > motors to power ships. See the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING > > magazine article (April 2000 issue) entitled, "NAVAL > > SUPERPOWER --- WILL BISMUTH RULE THE WAVES?" The > > article describes how a new generation of electric > > motors will be used to power military ships. > > > > Fact: Large electric motors have long been known to > > operate in the high 90% efficiency range. Question: > > How then does the U.S. Navy claim "SUPERPOWER"? Why > > did the U. S. Navy order numerous copies of my > > fundamental book over the years? Why did a top naval > > Admiral send police to my home that stated that the > > Admiral wanted to send a plane to my area to bring me > > to his office? I arranged for the Admiral to send a > > high-ranking scientist to my laboratory and Mechanical > > Engineer Milton Everett was a witness to the fact that > > the scientist specifically stated that he was very > > impressed with my energy machine technology. > > > > The five-page, April 2000 article in MECHANICAL > > ENGINEERING further proves that the energy machine of > > Joseph Newman works. Now the U. S. Government is > > spending millions of taxpayer's monies to build > > special electromagnetic motors that achieve astounding > > results. > > > > The same corrupt U.S. Government (that is effectively > > controlled by "old boy networks influenced by 'hell'") > > that told you for years that Joseph Newman's magnetic > > energy machine did not work is now using Joseph > > Newman's plundered technology to power naval vessels. > > > > People: when will you rise up and support my life's > > efforts for you? The conspiracy has been against ALL > > of you, more than just mere me. If you believe in God > > or Truth, join me. Remember the old saying: "For evil > > to exist, it only entails that good people do nothing." > > > > Copies of said graphs are available for companies > > interested in ordering Motor/Generators from me for > > their own energy saving needs and to save the energy > > dollars that they are presently paying to the Power > > Brokers. > > > > Note:Comments on page 5 of the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING > > article totally disprove comments made by then > > National Bureau of Standards (now-NIST) so-called > > expert Jacob Rabinow who explicitly stated in writing: > > "The Newman Machine would be highly inefficient > > WITHOUT IRON when used strictly as a Motor --- less > > than 10% (efficient)." Now read the following > > quotation from page 5 of the MECHANICAL ENGINEERING > > magazine article: > > > > "NO MORE WINDING SLOTS > > > > "REMOVING IRON teeth dispenses with the need for > > winding slots. That yields several advantages. It > > eliminates the 'cogging torque,' which Whitcomb > > called a significant source of radiated noise. LESS > > IRON equates to less synchronous and subtransient > > reactance as well, enhancing a machine's transient > > stability. Power density improves after the IRON > > COMES OUT since more space can be set aside for > > WINDINGS." (Emphasis added.) > > > > The above quotation matches statements from my > > fundamental book first published in 1984, from my > > original Patent Applications, and its application > > eliminates hysteresis losses associated with iron. > > > > For honest and sincere individuals wishing to help > > financially with production of the technology or for > > companies seeking to place orders for their own > > requirements who wish to have a personal demonstration > > of the technology, email your request to Evan Soulé at > > josephnewman@earthlink.net or call my number at: > > (480) 657-3722 to schedule a demonstration --- > > by appointment only. > > > > Power to the people, > > > > [Signed] > > Joseph Westley Newman > > > > www.josephnewman.com > > > > _____________________________________________________ > > > > To view the Photographs and Graphs referenced above, > > please visit the specific webpage: > > > > http://www.josephnewman.com/test_results.html > > > > or via the general website introductory page: > > > > www.josephnewman.com > > > > Thank you! > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 08:01:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08092; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:01:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:01:23 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bfddea$88131160$183dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:43:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"vRR223.0.H-1.3rCLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Dr. Faile's Knotted Coils Greetings! One of the topics that have been reviewed here briefly in the past was anomalous transparency and the Faile Effect. I have continued an ongoing communication with Dr. Faile on this and other topics, and he has continued to log and analyze his observations of this property, along with collecting testimony from others. However, Dr. Faile recently requested that I consider posting another topic for him, to the group. (If Sam had a computer, he would see to it himself.) Going back to the late 1980's, Sam Faile worked with the very basic but fascinating alt-sci topic of unusual coil geometries. Most experimenters are familiar with devices such as the Hooper winding, the Smith coil, the Rodin coil, and toroidal variants of these. Many claims have been made as well for caduceus coils (the Smith coil was somewhat caduceus in character) going back to George Van Tassel in the 1950's. And as well, I am sure that many experimenters also realize that validation of these claims, or replications are sorely lacking! What Dr. Faile has worked with, however, is somewhat different. His designs have consisted primarily of KNOTS and woven structures, fabricated from a vast variety of conductors, and linear dielectrics such as plastic tubing, fiber optic cables etc. Many of these are pre-calculated in structure, sometimes Sam will come up with a new knot or weave sequence by accident. To put it differently, they are topologically challenging. What is the purpose or primary effect of these devices? To date, a number of them seem (key word) to have subtle bio- or psycho- interactive properties. Some are not so subtle. I have handed a couple of these geometric creations to otherwise healthy third parties, who within seconds became dizzy and nauseated. Putting AC through some of these, with a light-bulb as a load, produced even more dramatic but admittedly subjective sensations in bystanders. However, Sam Faile believes, and I stand by him on this, that somewhere in the nigh infinite number of possible knot and loop structures, there exists a family of devices that could produce useful energy conversion phenomena, ZPF extraction, or even gravity or time effects. Some of this, we have speculated, could be based in theories of rolled up, or knotted up dimensions; or possibly string theory. There are a couple of designs that Sam believes have come closest to producing physical anomalies. These are the "arrays" that he would like me to offer to the group, in the hopes that someone else would like to continue the research, and/or verify what he and I have seen. I will vouch that I tested a number of these designs, by passing DC, AC, and RF (13.56 MHz) through them, and looked for anything odd such as production of heat or coldness, changes in weight, or charging of nearby objects. There was one design, a few years back, that did seem to produce an inordinate amount of heat when pumped with RF (above and beyond what I would have suspected as being due to diathermy heating of insulation). I admit that I did no practical calorimitry, though. These findings were published in brief form in New Energy News, in 1993. If any of the folks on this list are interested in this topic, here are two routes: A. Contact Dr. Sam Faile directly by letter or phone. His address is 4002 Sharon Park Lane, Apt. 13, Cincinnati, Ohio 45241. His phone number is (513) 563-4953 (evenings). Sam will supply tons of info. B. I have recently scanned several pages of the old New Energy News issues where a short article by Dr. Faile appears, along with some of my own transcribed notes. Permission has been granted by Hal Fox of NEN, contingent on supplying subscription information. (Institute for New Energy, 3084 E. 3300 South, Salt Lake City, Utah 84109; tel. 801-466-8680. Single issues avail. $3.00 each) If any parties in the group are interested, please e-mail me privately, and I will e-mail you back these text and figure portions as jpg files. Thanks for your interest. Sam Faile's knotted arrays are very unique in the new science community; I know of no-one else anywhere who has put so much time into understanding the effects of knotted matter and energy. Nick Reiter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 08:32:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA14717; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:32:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:32:06 -0700 Message-ID: <20000624153133.13266.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:31:33 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Kinetic energy and neutralized magnetic forces To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"OLj703.0.sb3.rHDLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > The attached drawing is a rotating device with a > magnet pair at each end of a > rod. The magnet pair has NEUTRALIZED forces because > the ATTRACTION and > REPULSION forces are equal but opposite. The pole > faces are flush when > rotation starts. When the rotation speed is high > enough so that the > ATTRACTION force of the magnets is exceeded, the > outside bar and magnets are > released. The magnets in REPULSION add to the > kinetic energy of the released > object. All energy put into the system is now in the > form of kinetic energy > with the ADDITIONAL energy supplied by the REPULSION > magnets. > Comments, > Butch Hi Butch, havent followed many of your ideas but it seems like a good physics course from the ground up as to unusual circumstances and what, why and how they wont work. I think it is a good idea to take a college level physics course usually entitled Elementary Classical Physics to explain a lot of "what ifs". That doesnt always do the job but a list like this helps fill in the gaps. We have some real good theoreticians here that can often answer questions we may have no conception of the answer. However it is the study of nature, or the science of physics that attempts to give us these answers. In this particular example there is a law known as the conservation of momentum. Momentum or mass times velocity from my rusty physics memory is conserved, neglecting losses of friction ect. There is a total amount of momentum to begin with expressed as the summed components of the angular momentum as the mass distributed along its angular path of rotation. When the centrifugal force causes that distribution of mass to change, angular momentum will be conserved. If the rotation were to stay the same angular velocity after displacement of the magnets, it could be construed to be a free energy effect, because the laws of physics predict that it will slow down, or else there would be a gain in total angular momentum. Dont get me wrong there are a few extenuating circumstances here,but ignoring those the prediction is zilch or zero gain. There is even another little cited law here that corresponds to electrical/magnetic interactions that may directly be infered as an analogy of nature known as the lorentz force law. The analogy to nature is exactly known and named as the coriolis force which is the sideways deflection that an object experiences while subtracting or adding to the gravitational potential energy seemingly caused by a centrifugal force. It IS that sideways deflection force that DOES conserve the total angular momentum. A good example of this from nature is the Russian ballerina? ice skater that propels herselve into an ever faster spin or seemingly faster angular momentum that actually doesnt change at all. When the spin begins the hands are widely spread and that portion of mass spinning has a much higher angular momentum than the rest of the total mass. As the hands are drawn inward that angular momentum is converted to a higher angular velocity to conserve, or to make identical the same total angular momentum. A variation of this idea also exists in the demonstration of rolling cylinders on an inclined plane, the hollow one converts more of the translational momentum to angular, than the solid cylinder does, thus it rolls slower. Great work on your many ideas,conceptions, and especially drawings, it takes a lot of time to do all those things! But remember, there are a thousand and one ways to bark up the wrong alley. There aren't too many valid perpetual motion machines, and probably a million and one ways to concoct them! Sincerely making a comment; HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 08:39:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA16825; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:38:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:38:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3954D513.7E5D9519@harti.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:34:43 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <39EC378B@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N06ai.0.f64.GODLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika, Tribo Electric effect ? I guess in Mr. Holzherr´s drawing is a bug: http://www.overunity.com/testatika/princip1.jpg the basement plexiglas plates with the brass metal mesh plates are probably just special "crystal" diodes with a big anode-cathode capacity and there is a missing connection somehwhere in this drawing, so this could be seen as an Avramenko plug, charging the 2 caps ! for reference here is again the whole text: http://www.overunity.com/testatika/neweng.htm The upper plexiglas arm is probably an electret with the 2 differnet metal meshes aluminium and steel using the tribo electric effect to enhance the electret charging. (Charge-seperating additional air molecules) As the arm is shaken back and forth it generates an AC influence induction into the 2 messing-plexiglas diodes which rectify it and charge up the avramenko plug capacitor(2 caps in parallel). for reference see Graham Gunderson´s posting inside the the JLN egroups.com site at: http://www.egroups.com/message/jlnlabs/5453?&start=2060 For reference I include some basic info on the tribo electric effect (friction based electricity) Charge Generation and Accumulation Contact Charging, Triboelectric Series All dissimilar materials will produce a static charge upon separation from contact, it's even possible to get charge separation from two metals.The most weakly bound electrons have the highest energy (Fermi energy, EF ) and are held to the surface by a potential energy barrier known as the work function. A triboelectric series (tribo, meaning friction) is an ordered list of materials and their tendency to lose or gain electrons in relation to the rest of the list. On contact between any two materials shown below, the one appearing above becomes positively charged, the one listed anywhere below it becomes negatively charged. Rubbing two materials together will increase the contact area, but is not necessary for charge transfer to occur. Triboelectric Series I Asbestos Rabbit fur Glass Mica Wool Quartz Cat fur Lead Silk Human skin, Aluminum Cotton Wood Amber Copper Rubber Sulfur Celluloid Triboelectric Series II Human skin, Aluminum Polyester Paper Cotton Steel Wax Hard rubber Acetate rayon Nickel-copper Brass-silver Synthetic rubber Orlon Saran Polyethylene Teflon Silicon rubber ================================ Materials that tend towards a Positive Charge More Air Positive Glass Nylon Wool Lead Aluminum Paper Neutral Cotton Steel Wood Rubber Copper Acetate Polyester Polyurethane Polypropylene Vinyl (pvc) More Silicon Negative Teflon Materials that tend towards a Negative Charge http://www.ee.rochester.edu:8080/~jones/demos/triboseries.html Triboelectric Series Thomas B. Jones Professor of Electrical Engineering University of Rochester -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below is a very short triboelectric series that provides an indication of the ordering of some common materials. The way to use a triboelectric series is to note the relative positions of the two materials of interest. The material that charges positive will be the one that is closer to the positive end of the series and the material closer to the negative end will charge negatively. Remember that it is the work function of the material that determines its position in the series. In general, materials with higher work function tend to appropriate electrons from materials with lower work functions. + POSITIVE END OF SERIES (materials with lower work function) asbestos glass nylon wool lead silk aluminum paper cotton steel hard rubber nickel & copper brass & silver synthetic rubber orlon saran polyethylene teflon silicone rubber - NEGATIVE END OF SERIES (materials with higher work function) There are several problems in using this or any such series. First, real materials are seldom very pure and often have surface finishes and/or contamination that strongly influence triboelectrification. Second, the spacing between materials on a triboseries does not allow us to predict with any confidence the magnitude of the charge separated. Many factors besides the difference in the electronic surface energy -- including surface finish, electrical conductivity, and mechanical properties -- strongly influence the results -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 10:27:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07094; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:26:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:26:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:26:37 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors In-Reply-To: <000501bfdd73$2a311320$063dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oEieQ2.0.lk1.GzELv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 23 Jun 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > On the other hand, we look at a solar cell, and find that if one holds it > indoors, or under a shady maple tree, it produces very little electrical > current. But then, step into a sunbeam, and WOW! Geographical dependence > at work... Another common problem is surface resistivity of materials. When a device fails, if any part of the effect involves high voltage at low current, then humidity becomes a critical factor. (And your VandeGraaff output might only rise above 0 volts in an air-conditioned environment!) > Face it, if he or others can do this, then by examining > the areas of active effect carefully, and correlating it to all sorts of > other local ambient conditions, we allow for tremendous advances in the > understanding of the core phenomenon. Right on! When an effect cannot be reproduced, in the past the inventor usually was secretive and would render no assistance, and there the story ended. If there are geographic factors at work, as well as the usual problems caused by secrecy and poorly-detailed reports, then replication is doubly impossible. I have hopes for this capacitor thing because all the fuss is based on public-domain plans, not on quirky and secret personal discoveries which "must" be hidden from all idea-theives. > Time is a major player here. If the weeks go by, and no other successful > replications of C's claims are found at ANY location, then sadly we move > asymptotically toward the conclusion of artifact / hoax. Each of us reaches > our satisfaction point individually. My version of the unit, made with > sputtered Cr-Al ring patterns on mylar sheets, did nothing detectable (last > word is key) from zero to 15 kV. Was it my location? (back room of the lab, > in Perrysburg, Ohio) Someone could go physically to Cliff L.'s place (if he was willing), and work on removing ALL factors which cause replications to be imperfect. But I think that requires that Cliff L. be a "scientist." Most people don't want to give up their secrets, and won't give help to strangers without payment. Scientists are weird in that they behave oppositely, and as long as the main barrier to progress is disbelief, then scientist-like behavior is the best thing we have for tearing away the veil from any genuine "fringe science" discoveries. Remember that the Wright Brothers essentially published plans for their man-lifting, wing-warping kite, and that's the single event which took all "flying machines" from the realm of secretive inventors and put them in the world spotlight. > My hunch is that ZPE or gravity coupled effects will likely show > some degree of variance with location. But probably not to the extent > claimed in C's story. Honest and open attempts at replication are the only > answer. If those guys aren't very experienced in electrostatics, perhaps the problem is something obvious, like the humidity being 90% in the other garage. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 10:48:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13390; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:48:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:48:02 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <20.7ba3699.26864e2d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:47:25 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Kinetic energy and neutralized magnetic forces To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"R_VYU1.0.7H3.IHFLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 6/24/00 10:32:21 AM Central Daylight Time, harvich@yahoo.com writes: > Great work on > your many ideas,conceptions, and especially drawings, > it takes a lot of time to do all those things! But > remember, there are a thousand and one ways to bark up > the wrong alley. There aren't too many valid perpetual > motion machines, and probably a million and one ways > to concoct them! Sincerely making a comment; HDN > HDH, Thanks for the input. I throw these ideas out on the list hoping they might spark a idea for someone. I knew about the physics of the system, but hoped someone would think away around them. But as I have said in the past, my devices put out as much overunity energy as any of the others built to date, zero. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 12:46:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08678; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:45:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:45:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bfde14$e70463c0$fa470a3f@oemcomputer> From: "SilentVision & SeaPony" To: References: <20.7ba3699.26864e2d@aol.com> Subject: [FG]: Electrogravics ? Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:46:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"k50DZ3.0.V72.e_GLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello, I'm new hear. I'm interested in exploring antigravity using condensers. The 1st thing I would like to try is a very simple experiment that I have seen in a couple of places but forgot ware. It just involves a ceramic capacitor, hanging on a string, and connected to a simple battery. Dose anyone hear have more details on this or know were I saw this ? The info I'm more interested in is what type capacitor will work good. and how much and type of a power source. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 12:51:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10664; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:50:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:50:44 -0700 Message-ID: <010a01bfde15$86897ca0$a55cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <000701bfddea$88131160$183dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Dr. Faile's Knotted Coils Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:43:48 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"ptWyD3.0.Tc2.K4HLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Thanks for your interest. Sam Faile's knotted arrays are very unique in > the new science community; I know of no-one else anywhere who has put so > much time into understanding the effects of knotted matter and energy. There was a fellow named Doyle Noyes whom I haven't heard anything about in years. He claimed that through complex coils formed by looping wires around nails in a board, he could heat or cool entire buildings with no energy input. It seemed very much to be a psychotronic effect, because often they would work only for him. Additionally hindering investigation, eventually leading most would-be investigators to dismiss his claims, was his monumental paranoia. Before meeting with anyone he would demand a photo so that he could determine via dowsing whether they were a Communist agent, if I remember correctly, and on one occasion he was reported to perform some sort of ritual in front of a mirror to prevent aliens from spying on him through it. Jerry Decker at KeelyNet could probably provide you with any details, such as they are, because geometric forms for aether manipulation have long been an interest of his. Are you familiar with the theory of Dan Davidson? Incidentally, I took a Faile-effect picture by accident recently, but I think I have a conventional explanation for it. I was trying to take a picture of a flower hanging in a window with a digital camera, and was rather surprised to see that from certain angles the venetian blinds behind the flower were visible through the plant. I suspect the camera was registering infrared light, however, because they are known to be highly sensitive to it and the background outdoors was brightly sunlit. I do not own an infrared-blocking filter, so I'm unable to verify it. I have frequently wondered if using a digital camera with an infrared-PASSING filter would be an easy way to verify Trevor Constable's claims of energy beings living in the atmosphere, since the sensitivity is so great. -- "I am not an Anarchist in *your* sense of the word : your brain is too dense for any known explosive to affect it." --Aleister Crowley From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 14:34:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02670; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:33:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:33:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bfde21$52e52820$683dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <000701bfddea$88131160$183dee3f@default> <010a01bfde15$86897ca0$a55cadd1@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Dr. Faile's Knotted Coils Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:15:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"I3ITO.0.df.naILv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Jim and all; > There was a fellow named Doyle Noyes whom I haven't heard anything about in > years. > Before meeting with anyone he would demand a photo so that he could determine > via dowsing whether they were a Communist agent, if I remember correctly, and on > one occasion he was reported to perform some sort of ritual in front of a mirror ****** I never corresponded with Doyle, though I remember Sam Faile mentioning him from time to time. I recall that Sam was pretty frustrated with the whole matter, as it seemed that some of Noye's geometries were very similar, but Sam couldn't get any reply from him, let alone any co-operation. Sam has always been an advocate of joint efforts and co-ordinated investigation. Are you familiar > with the theory of Dan Davidson? **** I think he is the fellow with the VAST website. I've looked over some of it. Lots of potentially interesting stuff, though the lack of coherency kept me from understanding the brunt of it. > > Incidentally, I took a Faile-effect picture by accident recently, but I think I > have a conventional explanation for it. I was trying to take a picture of a > flower hanging in a window with a digital camera, and was rather surprised to > see that from certain angles the venetian blinds behind the flower were visible > through the plant. I suspect the camera was registering infrared light, > however, because they are known to be highly sensitive to it and the background > outdoors was brightly sunlit. I do not own an infrared-blocking filter, so I'm > unable to verify it. ***** Not a bad thought. To test this, though we would need to consider what portions of the plant were transparent. If the foliage only, I would say the IR theory is pretty plausible. However, if you give it a careful inspection and find that the patterns are showing through the pot itself, thats a bit more to ponder. While a lot of what Sam and I have collected is indeed pretty marginal, for showing the effect, some of the better shots have been from colour 400 speed film, with subjects that one might think are too thick to pass any but the longest wave IR. Then there are the by-eye visuals... > > I have frequently wondered if using a digital camera with an infrared-PASSING > filter would be an easy way to verify Trevor Constable's claims of energy beings > living in the atmosphere, since the sensitivity is so great. ****** Oh I would agree. I have also advocated looking into UV photography! I suspect some pretty odd things may lurk on both ends of the visual range. I would have jumped into UV photography a few years ago, except for the beastly high cost of retro-fitting a camera with UV pass quartz lenses. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 14:49:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05862; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:49:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:49:23 -0700 Message-ID: <01ed01bfde25$379c2740$a78280d8@n8o9m1> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: "William Beaty" , References: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:43:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"PgB251.0.NR1.ZpILv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Sense of Urgency Necessity is the mother of invention correct? Are so many discoveries of our past really so dependent on just one person and his ideas? Would we be behind in physics by 500 years if Newton had not come along? Would we be behind in power distribution by 50 years if Tesla had not come along? The chinese were first in a few areas that to us today it seems they did not capitalize upon - but what was their need - their necessity to do so? Gun powder was a novelty for a long time - it seems until the need to use it in war - was the process refined and improved continually - generation after generation. How long would nuclear development have taken if not for WWII - and would the non existance of an einstien have hindered its development that much? If the wright brothers had not published their papers - would it have been so long before someone else did - would air transportation really be that far behind what it is today if there had not even been and wilbur and orville? > Right on! When an effect cannot be reproduced, in the past the inventor > usually was secretive and would render no assistance, and there the story > ended. If there are geographic factors at work, as well as the usual > problems caused by secrecy and poorly-detailed reports, then replication > is doubly impossible. I have hopes for this capacitor thing because all > the fuss is based on public-domain plans, not on quirky and secret > personal discoveries which "must" be hidden from all idea-theives. > > Someone could go physically to Cliff L.'s place (if he was willing), and > work on removing ALL factors which cause replications to be imperfect. But > I think that requires that Cliff L. be a "scientist." Most people don't > want to give up their secrets, and won't give help to strangers without > payment. Scientists are weird in that they behave oppositely, and as long > as the main barrier to progress is disbelief, then scientist-like behavior > is the best thing we have for tearing away the veil from any genuine > "fringe science" discoveries. > > Remember that the Wright Brothers essentially published plans for their > man-lifting, wing-warping kite, and that's the single event which took all > "flying machines" from the realm of secretive inventors and put them in > the world spotlight. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 15:20:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12754; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:19:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:19:54 -0700 Message-ID: <20000624221921.57712.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.76] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Earth Power 1 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:19:21 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"z82HN2.0.B73.9GJLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have tryed everthing!!! All I get is compleet lock up... So yes could you please convert this file and seed it to me??? Please... Timothy... >From: "Edwin Wise" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Earth Power 1 >Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:52:37 -0500 > >On 6/12/00, at 9:36 AM, Rick Monteverde wrote: > > >At 10:44 PM -0700 6/11/00, Timothy Flytch wrote: > > > >>Can someone please change the "rtf" file to something I can open and >read??? > > > >RTF is "Rich Text Format". Any Mac word processor can open it. > >If worse comes to worse, Adobe has a free document conversion to PDF >service (for some limited number of pages)... or I might be able to convert >(I have Adobe Acrobat). > >Edwin > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 16:00:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22810; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:59:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:59:49 -0700 Message-ID: <200006241758300300.02206989@mail.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <20000624221921.57712.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000624221921.57712.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:58:30 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Earth Power 1 Resent-Message-ID: <"TPu521.0.Ja5.arJLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 6/24/00, at 3:19 PM, Timothy Flytch wrote: >I have tryed everthing!!! All I get is compleet lock up... So yes could you >please convert this file and seed it to me??? >Please... However, I don't actually have the file... so send the icky one to me, and I'll return the PDF version. Edwin! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 19:55:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14441; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:54:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:54:50 -0700 Message-ID: <39557563.99A6EC16@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:58:45 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EZQmj.0.UX3.wHNLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Final Explination and analysis of Layo device Final Explanation and Analysis of the Layo Device By Michael Johnston I first learned of the "Layo" device several months ago ( http://www.layo.com ), I found it to be an interesting concept but after reviewing the data presented on the above referenced web site I felt as though something was either "missing" in the design, or was not being fully explained in the available information. I didn't set out to actively find a solution to that apparent puzzle because I am currently too busy with my own research to have enough time for such side pursuits. However the answer came to me rather spontaneously the other day and, that having happened, I figured that I might as well present the resulting information to the group for consideration and thereby perhaps, in some small way, assist anyone who may be trying to duplicate this device. In a nutshell, the concept behind this device is to use the wire feed mechanism from a mig welder to feed aluminum welding wire, carrying high voltage electricity, into a container filled with water. Inside the container there is a rotating aluminum cylinder. When the wire comes into close enough proximity to the cylinder a spark discharge occurs between the two pieces of metal. This spark supposedly releases hydrogen from the water by causing the aluminum to react with the oxygen in the water and thereby create aluminum oxide as a by product. The aluminum oxide falls to the bottom of the water container and can be collected later and recycled into aluminum again. Normally aluminum doesn't react with water. This is attributed to the coating of aluminum oxide which forms on the surface of the aluminum as soon as it is exposed to a source of oxygen, such as air or water. It is conceivable that this device could work because the passage of the spark would probably disrupt the oxide and allow the pure metal beneath to react with the surrounding water but since, as depicted on the site, the Inventor uses a complex arrangement of step up transformers (in the form of automotive ignition coils) and capacitors to create this immense voltage (something like 80,000 volts if I recall correctly) it seems to me that there would be far easier ways to achieve the same result which are still possible within the known facts about aluminum and which are much more energy efficient. First I would like to point out that, even though the Inventor takes such pains to generate and direct this electricity, electrical energy isn't even technically necessary to carry out this reaction except as used in this case (to disrupt the protection of the oxide coating). I won't speculate here as to whether or not this bit of seeming misinformation was deliberate on the part of the Inventor or just simple error. Again, that is not to say that it absolutely WON'T work as depicted but rather, as I said, it would be far simpler to do it in a different way or perhaps even with much less applied electricity. I will assume at this point that everyone who reads this already understands how the welding process works and so will not elaborate on that portion of the device. Instead, I would like to explain how the device itself works. I believe that the first mistake here is the idea that electricity is being employed in this device in the same way that it is in electrolysis. It is not. What would seem to lead to this misconception regarding the device lies in the fact that water, as a liquid conductor (containing an electrolyte) has properties that are different from solid metal conductors. These properties being; 1) As a liquid conductor's temperature increases it's conductivity also increases, whereas in a metal conductor, as temperature increases, resistivity increases. 2) In water, as more voltage is applied less current is needed through the circuit and conversely as more current flows less voltage is needed. In a metal conductor voltage and amperage requirements BOTH increase together, in equal proportions. From these known and accepted facts it would seem that the Inventor of this device decided that, since using a high current would cause excessive heat, that it would therefore be better to use high voltage because it wouldn't create as much heat and so would be beneficial because such excessive heat would be hard to dissipate within the confines of the design as depicted. Also such excessive heat at the "spark" would undoubtedly boil the water in the immediate vicinity and so create steam which would mingle with the hydrogen gas that was being released and fed into the motor and then potentially adversely affect the performance of the motor. The Inventor did include a cooling system but under those circumstances I don't believe it would be adequate. So instead he opted for high voltage/low amperage and this should indeed fit into the scheme of conductivity described above. The problem is that the amount of hydrogen created in an electrolysis cell is dependent upon the amount of current which flows through the cell, not on the voltage. Therefore it would seem that, even though basic conductivity would be unaffected, high voltage would NOT produce the same effect in regard to the liberation of hydrogen as low voltage/high amperage. I don't have any hard experimental data in this area to rely upon so I will leave that assertion as assumed fact unless someone has different data to present which contradicts it. As I mentioned above it would seem that the only real requirement to get aluminum to react with water and in so doing liberate hydrogen is to strip away the tiny oxide layer at the surface of the metal. If you wanted to use this setup wouldn't it make far more sense to simply hold a steel file or some similar abrasive material against the rotating aluminum cylinder to strip away the oxide? It would probably be possible to run the device with the only input energy being whatever is consumed by a small 12 volt D.C. motor which would be used to turn the cylinder. The abrasive would strip away the oxide layer, exposing the aluminum beneath to the water which should react and form a new oxide layer and release hydrogen in the process. That is much more energy efficient than the high voltage setup and much more simple to construct and maintain. The amount of hydrogen produced would then be determined by the rate at which the setup exposed fresh metal surface to the water by abrading the surface which would be controlled by the rate at which the cylinder rotates and the size of the surface area thereby exposed which would depend upon the size of the surface area between the abrasive and the metal. The only heat being generated in this incarnation of the device would, at this point, seem to be the heat energy created by the friction of the abrasive against the rotating cylinder and the heat of the reaction itself which I will detail shortly. The abrasive used would preferably be of the finest grit available because it is only the surface of the aluminum which would react with the water to liberate hydrogen. Because of this fact it would be obvious that large individual filings produced by a coarse abrasive would have less surface area and more unexposed mass of metal within each filing than tiny filings. I am not suggesting that this is a device which I believe to be worthwhile as a product for the general marketplace because I don't think that it is. There would be too much maintenance for most members of the population to accept. Especially when it is far easier to steal gasoline. In addition to that one would have to compare the rate at which aluminum would be used per given weight of water separated to the amount of gasoline used in the same amount of time and see if it is indeed more economical to produce hydrogen in this manner due to the expense of the aluminum as offset by the value of the resultant by product as a recyclable material. Another fact which the Inventor doesn't seem to take into consideration is that there are OTHER ways to cause aluminum to react with water and thereby liberate hydrogen, which require NO energy input and in fact, by themselves release a large amount of energy. I will describe these reactions below. I know that many researchers on the list will already be aware of these methods but there seems to be other members who are not aware of them and so it is for them that I include these additional methods. Aluminum is not as chemically active as some metals. The alkaline earth metals, for example, are far more reactive with water. However aluminum IS the most abundant metal on the planet (8%) which makes it somewhat less expensive than some metals however the production of pure aluminum is quite involved and requires a great deal of energy in the form of electricity. Aluminum is an excellent reducing agent though. It's oxidation potential looks like this: Al(s) ------>Al+3 + 3e +1.66 volts Ionization potential: 1st = 5.98 e.v., 2nd = 18.82 e.v., 3rd = 28.44 e.v. Just as with the alkaline earth metals it is the hydration of the ion which allows the reaction to proceed. Over 1000 kcal of heat are evolved when 1 mole of Al+3 ions is hydrated. It is assumed that each Al+3 ion is hydrated by six water molecules so then each Al+3-to-H2O bond accounts for 170 kcal of energy per mole. This indicates that the Al-to-O bond is stronger than the O-H bond. Again, this high oxidation potential seems to indicate that aluminum should reduce water but the reaction is too slow to detect because of the tiny oxide coat at the surface of the metal isolates the pure metal beneath it from the surrounding water. BUT (and this is important) the oxide coating is soluble in both acid and base solutions! Consequently aluminum liberates hydrogen from both acid and base solutions without the addition of any energy to sustain the reaction. These net reactions are; 2Al(s) + 6H+ ---------> 2Al+3 + 3H2(g) 2Al(s) + 2OH- + 6H2O -----------> 2Al(OH)4- + 3H2(g) The first equation seems to show that aluminum dissolves in any acid. It doesn't. For example, it dissolves easily in hydrochloric acid but nitric acid shows no visible results.This is also thought to be because of the oxide coat. The coating should be very stable because of the great strength of the Al-O bond. Also consider the amount of heat generated when aluminum burns in air to create Al2O3; 2Al(s) + 3/2 O2(g) ---------> Al2O3(s) +399 kcal (temp = 3000 degrees Celsius) This released heat energy has been used effectively in the reduction of less stable oxides. Since it requires 197 kcal to decompose 1 mole of Fe2O3 into it's elements, aluminum can reduce Fe2O3 with energy left over. It is the sum of two reactions; 2Al(s) + 3/2 O2(g) ----------->Al2O3(s) + 399 kcal 197 kcal + Fe2O3(s)---------> 2Fe(s) + 3/2 O2(g) ----------------------------------------------------- 2Al(s) + Fe2O3(s)------------>2Fe(s) + Al2O3(s) + 202 kcal When this reaction is carried out the heat produced is enough to produce Fe and Al2O3 in the molten state, this is called the Thermite Reaction and has been used for welding operations. It has also been used for incendiary bombs. As you can see by these reactions quite a bit of energy is created by aluminum reacting with water to liberate hydrogen. More energy in fact than what will be released by burning the hydrogen. So again you have the cooling problem unless you can find a way to use the heat of this reaction in addition to the heat created by burning the hydrogen. So obviously the whole expenditure of energy in the Layo device to achieve these same ends is unnecessary! In using aluminum as the material for your electrodes in a standard electrolysis cell all of this information would have to be taken into consideration. In such a setup you would actually be producing more hydrogen than what is accounted for in the normal liberation of hydrogen by electrolysis. This is because of the fact that an acidic electrolyte such as sulfuric acid should dissolve the oxide coating and allow the aluminum metal itself to react with the water to liberate hydrogen in addition to the quantity that would be separated by the action of the electrical current that is passing through the cell. I will attempt to predict the amount of metal (Al) needed to liberate the hydrogen in one liter of water below; One liter of water weighs 992.53 grams. There are approximately 55 moles of water per liter. The weight of one mole of water (H2O) is 18.016 gm. Six moles of water are required to react with two moles of aluminum. So 108.096 gm of water (18.016 gm/mole x 6) will react with 53.96 gm of aluminum (26.98 gm/mole x 2). So by dividing the weight of one liter of water (992.53 gm) by the weight of six moles of H2O (108.96gm) 992.53/108.96 = 9.109 which can then be multiplied by the weight of aluminum required to react with six moles of water (53.96gm) so that 9.109 x 53.96 = 491.52 gm and we see that we need 1.08 pounds of aluminum (491.52gm/454gm-lb) to liberate the amount of hydrogen in one liter of water which is 55 moles per liter x 2.016gm/mole (weight of H2 in one mole of water) = 110.88 gm So it takes 1.08 pounds of aluminum to separate about a quarter pound of hydrogen from 2.25 pounds of water. Of course this is without the addition of any energy to the system. This reaction would liberate 3658.889 kcal of energy in the form of heat. This figure is obtained by multiplying the 399 kcal released by 2Al reacting with 6H2O by the number of moles of Al in 491.52 gm of it as shown above. Conversely, burning the hydrogen that was released by the reaction would yield 3740 kcal of energy which is found by multiplying 55 moles of H2 by 136 kcal per mole of H2. If, in addition, an electric current was added by making the electrodes in an electrolysis system out of aluminum and using an acid as your electrolyte, then you could separate an additional amount of H2 in addition to the above. This quantity would be directly proportional to the amount of current being used. In this way it would perhaps be possible to release enough hydrogen to make the setup worthwhile as a fuel source. Still though, there is the fact that the electrodes must be replaced on a regular basis and the resulting oxides cleaned from the bottom of the cell. For these reasons I feel that, while it might be an interesting device for a free energy aficionado to experiment with or perhaps as a way to commercially produce hydrogen gas in a more cost effective way, it really has little hope of being a success in the general marketplace. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 24 21:27:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08243; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:27:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:27:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bfde5e$1f2258e0$1d9da0d1@pavilion> From: "Norm Silliman" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:30:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"a8-lY3.0.e02.YeOLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From: William Beaty Date: Saturday, June 24, 2000 10:27 AM >On Fri, 23 Jun 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > >> On the other hand, we look at a solar cell, and find that if one holds it >> indoors, or under a shady maple tree, it produces very little electrical >> current. But then, step into a sunbeam, and WOW! Geographical >> dependence at work... > >Another common problem is surface resistivity of materials. When a device >fails, if any part of the effect involves high voltage at low current, >then humidity becomes a critical factor. (And your VandeGraaff output >might only rise above 0 volts in an air-conditioned environment!) > > >> Face it, if he or others can do this, then by examining >> the areas of active effect carefully, and correlating it to all sorts of >> other local ambient conditions, we allow for tremendous advances in the >> understanding of the core phenomenon. > >Right on! When an effect cannot be reproduced, in the past the inventor >usually was secretive and would render no assistance, and there the story >ended. If there are geographic factors at work, as well as the usual >problems caused by secrecy and poorly-detailed reports, then replication >is doubly impossible. I have hopes for this capacitor thing because all >the fuss is based on public-domain plans, not on quirky and secret >personal discoveries which "must" be hidden from all idea-theives. > >> Time is a major player here. If the weeks go by, and no other successful >> replications of C's claims are found at ANY location, then sadly we move >> asymptotically toward the conclusion of artifact / hoax. Each of us reaches >> our satisfaction point individually. My version of the unit, made with >> sputtered Cr-Al ring patterns on mylar sheets, did nothing detectable (last >> word is key) from zero to 15 kV. Was it my location? (back room of the lab, >> in Perrysburg, Ohio) >snip> > >If those guys aren't very experienced in electrostatics, perhaps the >problem is something obvious, like the humidity being 90% in the other >garage. Since the only "success" reported was months ago, ie winter in Poland, and the fact that TIN has two crystaline phases, and the phase changes at 286.4 Kelvin (see http://bmrl.med.uiuc.edu:8080/MRITable/Sn.html ), I would ask about the temperature in the garage. Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 02:27:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA24704; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 02:27:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 02:27:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000701bfde14$e70463c0$fa470a3f@oemcomputer> References: <20.7ba3699.26864e2d@aol.com> <000701bfde14$e70463c0$fa470a3f@oemcomputer> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 23:26:47 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrogravics ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"rlgkt3.0.v16.z1TLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hello, I'm new hear. > I'm interested in exploring antigravity using condensers. The 1st thing >I would like to try is a very simple experiment that I have seen in a >couple of places but forgot ware. It just involves a ceramic capacitor, >hanging on a string, and connected to a simple battery. Dose anyone hear >have more details on this or know were I saw this ? The info I'm more >interested in is what type capacitor will work good. and how much and type >of a power source. I'd suggest doing some reading on basic electricity and electrical components like capacitors first. Then read the files you find on the various capacitor experiments like those on http://www.amasci.com , and be very careful. Small battery voltages and small capacitances are relatively harmless, but larger devices and/or high voltage an kill. '- Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 08:34:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18391; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:34:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:34:16 -0700 Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <39562698.77CB3D35@centurytel.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:34:48 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="xneut" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="xneut" Resent-Message-ID: <"4g-Qi.0.AV4.uPYLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Super-K neutrinos Would anyone care to add to the following comments? Comment 1: Super-Kamiokande is a Japanese experiment, located in the Kamioka Mozumi Mine in Japan to find neutrinos. The only presentation of Super-K data I could find on the web had "events" plotted on the vertical axis while cosine theta was plotted on the horizontal axis. Theta is the angle on the celestial sphere with the Sun near zero degrees. events vs. cosine theta gives a spike near zero degrees, indicating the presence of neutrinos above background noise. However, if events are plotted against theta, the spike goes away; and all that can be seen is background noise. Comment 2: The plot vs angle is meaningless. The correct plot is the one vs cosine theta, because the path length of the neutrino through the Earth is directly proportional to the cosine of the zenith angle. The probability of oscillation due to MSW effect is directly proportional to the path length. So the cosine plot directly reflects oscillation probability, and as you already point out for us, shows a definite effect, proving that the Kamiokande results are valid and that MSW oscillation happens to neutrinos passing through the Earth. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 10:51:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA22169; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:50:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:50:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bfdecd$ed845d40$f6470a3f@oemcomputer> From: "SilentVision & SeaPony" To: References: <20.7ba3699.26864e2d@aol.com><000701bfde14$e70463c0$fa470a3f@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrogravics ? Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:50:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"WrGVk1.0.IQ5.NPaLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde > >Hello, I'm new hear. > > I'm interested in exploring antigravity using condensers. The 1st thing > >I would like to try is a very simple experiment that I have seen in a > >couple of places but forgot ware. It just involves a ceramic capacitor, > >hanging on a string, and connected to a simple battery. Dose anyone hear > >have more details on this or know were I saw this ? The info I'm more > >interested in is what type capacitor will work good. and how much and type > >of a power source. > > I'd suggest doing some reading on basic electricity and electrical > components like capacitors first. Then read the files you find on the > various capacitor experiments like those on http://www.amasci.com , > and be very careful. Small battery voltages and small capacitances > are relatively harmless, but larger devices and/or high voltage an > kill. Thanks. Understood. I have bean reading a lot on it though. Not saying though that I couldn't use more understanding of the basics. I gess to refine my question. The reason why I'm looking for someone hear to suggest ware I saw this or off the top of there head is that I have looked all over the place for the very simple experiment on this and its like finding a needle in a haystack. Which is good in a way. Nice to have other information on the subject. I want to start off very simple if I can. The reason I want that is, because it will make it much easier to start testing different ideas I have about shapes and configurations of the plates and dialetrics. I do appreciate the help. I have found some very simple ones that I can make but they still use 30kV. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 12:20:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12941; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:19:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:19:18 -0700 Message-ID: <001301bfded7$b1747ec0$713dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <20.7ba3699.26864e2d@aol.com><000701bfde14$e70463c0$fa470a3f@oemcomputer> <001a01bfdecd$ed845d40$f6470a3f@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrogravics ? Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:00:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"TQzjS1.0.2A3.ribLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "SilentVision & SeaPony" To: Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrogravics ? > I gess to refine my question. The reason why I'm looking for someone > hear to suggest ware I saw this or off the top of there head is that I have > looked all over the place for the very simple experiment on this and > its like finding a needle in a haystack. Which is good in a way. Nice to > have > other information on the subject. I want to start off very simple if I can. *****This is an area where there is a lot of mythology flying about, and lots of third and fourth hand accounts of so and so's book on T.T. Brown's work 60 years ago. In other words, a lot of useless words on capacitors and antigravity. Now all of this hurts me all the more because SURPRISE! I believe that proper use of HV capacitors really COULD BE one of the avenues for affecting gravity. It is a very important field of study, and one that I have tried ideas in over the past couple of years. There could be some considerable ZPE / aether stresses going on in capacitors during periods of displacement current! If you are truly new in this field, then check out the links that Mr. Beaty has in his gravity section. I would suggest JLN Labs (Jean-Louis Naudin's site) and the official Thomas Townsend Brown website. Especially read carefully all of the material on the TT Brown site, including the correspondence. Apparently, toward the end of his days, Brown felt that the one true anomalous electrogravity effect he had observed was actually his earliest; that involving capacitors with massive dielectrics of high atomic or molecular weight materials. Good luck; NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 14:45:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA24308; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:45:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:45:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001301bfded7$b1747ec0$713dee3f@default> References: <20.7ba3699.26864e2d@aol.com><000701bfde14$e70463c0$fa470a3f@oemcomputer> <001a01bfdecd$ed845d40$f6470a3f@oemcomputer> <001301bfded7$b1747ec0$713dee3f@default> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:44:55 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrogravics ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"XyJfx.0.jx5.WrdLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 3:00 PM -0400 6/25/00, Nick Reiter wrote: >There could be some considerable >ZPE / aether stresses going on in capacitors during periods of displacement >current! In your experiment with the grav-cap style segment, did your contacts to the plates sort of cascade from one end to the other, or were they all in a bunch together so the charge flowed to them at once? Been thinking about that. I know there's been far too much speculation and too little experimentation reported on the list, but this seems to be a pretty good candidate for an important factor from all I've read, including TTB's own comments. If a kind of sequenctial 'firing' or charge transfer is necessary to see some effect, then perhaps a simple delay line or distance between plate sets would allow for a cumulative and larger net effect to occur for each charge cycle even with only a few plates. A further assumption here is that the effect is very small or absent in a steady state of capacitor charge, but appears during charge transfer, so the caps should be continually charging and discharging. And of course the 'normal' way to discharge a cap is to replace the potential on the leads with one of opposite polarity so current will flow 'back' out of the plates, potentially reversing the direction of the effect and cancelling out anything gained during the previous half cycle. But an easily penetrable 'breakdown' dielectric like wax paper could be key to keeping the net current flow going in one direction, driven by a pulsing DC sort of effect. The glow discharge vacuum in the experiments cited by Brown come to mind here. With a chained or sequential design, I can visualize a sort of caterpillar or unidirectional effort for compounding and utilizing what must be a vanishingly small and brief effect, if it exists at all. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 15:56:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13700; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:55:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:55:57 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 18:55:19 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"31O063.0.cL3.zteLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Need big Y animation file Hi all, I lost the big Y animation file that Greg Watson did for me of my design a couple of years ago. Does anyone have a copy they could send or know of the site address (if it is still up) Thanks, Butch P.S. The big Y was three magnets spaced at 120 degrees with two in repulsion and the bottom one in attraction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 16:06:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA17990; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:06:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:06:01 -0700 Message-ID: <20000625230528.6489.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.167.226.59] From: "Adam Bialczyk" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:05:28 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"JuEEx1.0.xO4.P1fLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: David Hamel Does anyone have any good technical/design information or sources for technical information on the magnetic "weight-into-motion" device developed by David Hamel? Is there any independent evidence that this works? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 17:32:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13091; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:31:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:31:44 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Super-K neutrinos Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:31:06 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39562698.77CB3D35@centurytel.net> In-Reply-To: <39562698.77CB3D35@centurytel.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA13065 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kt0SM.0.SC3.lHgLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Taylor J. Smith's message of Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:34:48 +0000: [snip] >Would anyone care to add to the following comments? >Comment 2: > >The plot vs angle is meaningless. The correct plot >is the one vs cosine theta, because the path length >of the neutrino through the Earth is directly proportional >to the cosine of the zenith angle. The probability of >oscillation due to MSW effect is directly proportional >to the path length. So the cosine plot directly reflects >oscillation probability, and as you already point out for >us, shows a definite effect, proving that the Kamiokande >results are valid and that MSW oscillation happens to >neutrinos passing through the Earth. > This is essentially correct. The Earth only gets in the way at night (obviously). The depth of the experiment itself is trivial relative to the radius of the Earth, so can to all intents and purposes be ignored. This means that the distance through the Earth at night is given by d = D x cos(theta), where D is the diameter of the Earth. Strictly speaking there should also be a minus sign, because the cosine of the true zenith angle is negative at night. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 19:26:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17126; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:25:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:25:43 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bfdf13$3d840c60$9a3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <20.7ba3699.26864e2d@aol.com><000701bfde14$e70463c0$fa470a3f@oemcomputer><001a01bfdecd$ed845d40$f6470a3f@oemcomputer><001301bfded7$b1747ec0$713dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrogravics ? Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:07:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vf0G4.0.QB4.cyhLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrogravics ? > At 3:00 PM -0400 6/25/00, Nick Reiter wrote: > > >There could be some considerable > >ZPE / aether stresses going on in capacitors during periods of displacement > >current! > > In your experiment with the grav-cap style segment, did your contacts > to the plates sort of cascade from one end to the other, or were they > all in a bunch together so the charge flowed to them at once? ****** Because there were only six sections or sheets, they were pretty well in a bunch on either terminal. > Been thinking about that. I know there's been far too much > speculation and too little experimentation reported on the list, but > this seems to be a pretty good candidate for an important factor from > all I've read, including TTB's own comments. ***** So true! Probably the most important hint among the TT Brown papers was from his very early effort "How I Control Gravitation" Look at the diagrams of the Lead / Lead Oxide gravitator cells. Only the end-most plates are terminated. The remaining inner plates are floating, forming an extended set of virtual series capacitors! This, combined with the large atomic weight of the materials used is of supreme importance. > But an easily penetrable 'breakdown' dielectric like wax > paper could be key to keeping the net current flow going in one > direction, driven by a pulsing DC sort of effect. ***** Brown apparently liked leaky dielectrics, however, he kept insisting that mass was very important, such that he stuck with lead and lead oxide infused materials. He also made graded dielectrics, with a delta k down their length, by varying the amount of litharge in the epoxy or bakelite binder > > The glow discharge vacuum in the experiments cited by Brown come to > mind here. With a chained or sequential design, I can visualize a > sort of caterpillar or unidirectional effort for compounding and > utilizing what must be a vanishingly small and brief effect, if it > exists at all. ***** I have recently taken two lead titanate zirconate piezo transducer discs (3" x 1/8" thick), epoxied them to either side of a larger mylar disc for arc-over protection, suspended the assembly from it's lead in wires, and hit it with on/off 15kV. The assembly twitches and torsions slightly when the potential hits it. However, I am trying to see if there is a net direction to the impulse, by gluing a long dowel rod pointer to the assembly. If I can show this to a reproducible degree, then the next step will be to build a full scale TT Brown lead/litharge gravitator cell. Maybe the fellas with the lightweight flying wire frames and aluminum foil discs failed to read far enough, and discover that in his final years, Brown wrote all of that stuff off. Had he been hale and alive another ten years, I suspect he may have gone back to studying the true anomalies from his days with Paul A. Biefeld. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 23:33:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07280; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:33:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:33:06 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001a01bfdf13$3d840c60$9a3dee3f@default> References: <20.7ba3699.26864e2d@aol.com><000701bfde14$e70463c0$fa470a3f@oemcomputer>< v04210100b57b7eecfccf@[192.168.0.2]><001a01bfdecd$ed845d40$f6470a3f@oemcom puter><001301bfded7$b1747ec0$713dee3f@default> <001a01bfdf13$3d840c60$9a3dee3f@default> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:32:57 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Electrogravics ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"wo35y1.0.bn1.WalLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:07 PM -0400 6/25/00, Nick Reiter wrote: >He also made graded dielectrics, with a delta k down >their length, by varying the amount of litharge in the epoxy or bakelite >binder I didn't know he had done that himself before, but I have read that others had tried this. >Had he been hale and alive another ten years, I >suspect he may have gone back to studying the true anomalies from his days >with Paul A. Biefeld. I wish I had met him. He was doing those petrovoltaic experiments only a few miles from where I lived in the early 80's. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 25 23:49:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10572; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:48:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:48:42 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <27.7506e56.2688569f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:47:59 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_27.7506e56.2688569f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"pDyt2.0.1b2.AplLv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: "Big Y", Revised design & Quickfield simulation --part1_27.7506e56.2688569f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See attached drawing for new "Big Y" design. See web page for Quickfield simulation LaFonte Research Site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html --part1_27.7506e56.2688569f_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="BIGY2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BIGY2.gif" R0lGODdh7AGhAfcAAAAAAAAA/3s5AHt7e5xKAJycnL1aAL29vf8AAP97AP97e/+cnP+9vf// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"APU2H2.0.JW2.o05Mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: test delete test delete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 06:17:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02835; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:16:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:16:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3958A852.84D2634E@harti.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:12:50 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bEamA1.0.7i.zaAMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Genesis coils simular to =?iso-8859-1?Q?Testatika=B4s?= big cans ? Hi, thanks to Clipp P. he pointed out that the Genesis project coils might be the key element found in the Methernitha Testatika big cans leyden jars. See here: http://www.geocities.com/nayado/ and section: WHATS IN THE BIG CAN in: http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/swiss.htm -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 06:46:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12169; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:46:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:46:09 -0700 Message-ID: <006001bfe03c$d31fcf00$dd0c9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: "freenrg L" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:37:14 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"agIg52.0.vz2.W0BMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: email self test - ignore this... this is a test (my email seemed to have quit working) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 13:58:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12609; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:57:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:57:01 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <67.606e3ed.268a6d70@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:49:52 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Resent-Message-ID: <"iHHSS2.0.s43.TKHMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Want to organize group for research project Hi all, I want get together a group of people who will respond not just "lurk" on a special project I'm working on. I had two ideas I was working on and neither worked. I believe now that the two combined will work as an overunity device. I want a list of people who will respond to questions and problems with the device and share in the credit if it works. This will reduce the traffic on the lists and the lists can be updated with project reports from time to time also. All input to the project will be of value I'm sure. Please respond to my email address direct if you want to be on the list. hlafonte@aol.com Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 14:29:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23921; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:28:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:28:44 -0700 Message-ID: <20000627212759.9789.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:27:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Sadelgor Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"H0osy3.0.br5.BoHMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >> I have let a friend barrow my little GC and usinghis own 200KV VDG that >> he bought from Edmond scientific, he was unable toget it to work. But on my >> 200KV VDG that I built that is a copy of his, theGC works fine. The set ups >> in my garage and his are practically the same. Heis using my completed GC >> including the hookup wires and resistors. Hebrought it back and we hooked >> it up in my garage and it worked just fine and evenlifted itself up. Then >> taken it back to his place and again nothinghappened.> >> Do you have any ideas on this odd puzzle? Hi, If you charge the cap, and place it somewhere in the car next to you and drive away.What happens then ?? using a portable VDG, if need.? Are any photos or diagrams of the caps you have??? Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 14:56:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30291; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:55:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:55:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000627212759.9789.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000627212759.9789.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:54:48 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"5POIa3.0.xO7.6BIMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 2:27 PM -0700 6/27/00, Jim Sadelgor wrote: >If you charge the cap, and place it somewhere in the >car next to you and drive away.What happens then ?? >using a portable VDG, if need.? LOL! Now that's one "Cops" episode I'd LOVE to see! Driving while under the "influence machine"?! "Really officer, the extra thrust from the antigrav unit in the back seat pushed me over the speed limit..." "You see, once we get the 1.61 gigawatts flowing through this flux capacitor here..." - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 15:04:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA00808; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:03:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:03:29 -0700 Message-ID: <395924B7.EEEB3DF8@info2000.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:03:35 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors References: <20000627212759.9789.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vw4Yg1.0.QC.iIIMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick, I think you are getting close to the truth (whether you know it or not). Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 15:15:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04937; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:14:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: <39592837.70221631@csrlink.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 18:18:31 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yQgs03.0.-C1.BTIMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Answer to my picture question..............;-) Hi All, Here's a link to the website where I got that picture of a hydrogen atom. I just wanted to make a point. I think that if you look at it on this link you will get the point. It has everything to do with free energy. MJ http://odin.gi.alaska.edu/~lumm/Jan_6_11/SolWind.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 16:29:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA25857; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:28:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:28:40 -0700 Message-Id: <200006272328.AA00933@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> From: Motoe Suzuki Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:28:47 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Subject: Re: [FG]: Genesis coils simular to =?ISO-2022-JP?B?VGVzdGF0aWthGyRCJSgbKEJz?= big cans ? In-Reply-To: <3958A852.84D2634E@harti.com> References: <3958A852.84D2634E@harti.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"IG1Td.0.rJ6.dYJMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, Don't fool yourselves. All that is shown in http://www.geocities.com/nayado/ is a complete fake. I know the truth. The japanese who shows this HP has not conducted experiment with his coils at all. He pretends to do the experiment, and to have a positive results. He faked the photograph in which a lamp lit at the top of the coil. His theory has a fatal flaw. He himself admitted that he codded all the things. Everything has been already disclosed in Japan. >Hi, >thanks to Clipp P. >he pointed out that the Genesis project coils >might be the key element found in the Methernitha >Testatika >big cans leyden jars. > >See here: >http://www.geocities.com/nayado/ > >and section: > >WHATS IN THE BIG CAN > >in: >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/swiss.htm > >-- > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. ///////// From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 17:33:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08101; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:33:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:33:13 -0700 Message-Id: <200006280032.UAA07237@fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:27:22 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6Ir-Y.0.F-1.0VKMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > "You see, once we get the 1.61 gigawatts flowing through this flux > capacitor here..." I thought it only required 1.21 gigawatts? :) --Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 17:47:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10987; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:38:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Answer to my picture question..............;-) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:05:58 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39592837.70221631@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <39592837.70221631@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id RAA10826 Resent-Message-ID: <"OEdoZ.0.Oh2.tZKMv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Michael Johnston's message of Tue, 27 Jun 2000 18:18:31 -0400: >Hi All, >Here's a link to the website where I got that picture of a hydrogen >atom. I just wanted to make a point. I think that if you look at it on >this link you will get the point. It has everything to do with free >energy. >MJ >http://odin.gi.alaska.edu/~lumm/Jan_6_11/SolWind.html The picture on this web page is a graph of the Earth's magnetic field. I don't see what it has to do with hydrogen atoms. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 19:40:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23366; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:39:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:39:49 -0700 Message-ID: <20000628023915.92580.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.88] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:39:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"hE08i.0.ti5.qLMMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: There was something about aluminum and H2.... last week there was a conversation about producing H2 from water and aluminum... Well... I ran across this... >From Bill's web sight... Sounds just so simple... I don't understand the chemistry involved but this works impressively. Do this outdoors! Take an old thick-walled soda pop bottle and put in about three telephones of lye crystals. Drop in several tightly rolled balls of aluminium foil. Add about one-half cup of water. Notice that a chemical reaction takes place with the contents getting boiling hot as the foil is consumed. The fumes that spew from the bottle mouth are lighter than air. Those fumes come out with enough pressure to inflate balloons put over the mouth of the bottle. Be careful! The bottle can get hot enough to burn you. The bottle can in fact get hot enough to fracture, spilling the hot caustic solution in a highly dangerous manner. Fun stuff if you like floating balloons and living on the edge! Ross Macintosh Halifax, NS Canada - Friday, May 26, 2000 at 16:30:44 (PDT) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 20:07:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01307; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:07:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:07:12 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <3959196A.60566BCE@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:15:22 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Dr. Faile's Knotted Coils References: <000701bfddea$88131160$183dee3f@default> <010a01bfde15$86897ca0$a55cadd1@default> <000501bfde21$52e52820$683dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XcGGC1.0.EK.VlMMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick Reiter wrote: Heya Nick, I still play with the Faile effect from time-to-time. But I still haven't found anything eye-popping yet. I've had other comes up. But I'm still looking... Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 20:20:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA29875; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39591AD1.E4EBC949@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:21:21 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Dr. Faile's Knotted Coils References: <000701bfddea$88131160$183dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TK_6g2.0.hI7.VrMMv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick Reiter wrote: > > Greetings! > > Thanks for your interest. Sam Faile's knotted arrays are very unique in > the new science community; I know of no-one else anywhere who has put so > much time into understanding the effects of knotted matter and energy. > > Nick Reiter Are plans available for the unpowered biophysically active knot arrays? I'm a pretty tough skeptic ( as Sam probably knows from phone interview ) and would be intrested in building it and trying it out on myself. <:) If so, I'd like to get a copy... I don't think I'm susceptible to self-suggestion, or other experiences that may give false leads. And I could probably find a few people to do a double blind experiment with.... IE, get two boxes, put a coil in one box, and then have a second person give the boxes to people, and judge their reaction. This person would no nothing of which box contained the coil. He would hand the data to me for tabulation. Thus there is no connection between knowing which box contains a coil, and thus no chance for self-suggestion, etc. Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 20:30:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01224; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002c01bfe06e$a7e9b940$ddafc2cf@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: , Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:34:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"greV13.0.zI.0_MMv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com One geography-related factor that can affect operation of some weird-energy machines is presence of fault lines, especially stressed ones. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 20:33:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09616; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:32:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:32:52 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39591F8A.D747DF0A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:41:30 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eKSLI3.0.0M2.a7NMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Faile Effect. So far what I have found. Monochromatic dim light helps make the effect noticable. Bright light seems to wash it out. Blue-Green LEDS, due to their brightness seem to work best. I am not certain if wavelength plays a role, but the effect seems to be less noticeable with red light. Aluminum metal appears to be very susceptible to the effect. It exhibits the most anomalous transparency. Paint or anodization seems to affect it very little. It is possible to see some colors and patterns through objects. Red seems to be easy to notice... Wood, plastic ( styrene ) and flesh seem to exhibit the effect in a weaker form. It seems metals are most susceptible to the effect. A small room, and 2 bright blue-green LEDs are all that is required to play with this. NB, I NEED to get a scanner, and a camera. There is a tree outside which I swear exhibits the effect... Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 20:46:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA15050; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:45:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:45:34 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01bfe0b3$1a54dc00$b2d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: There was something about aluminum and H2.... Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:44:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"gWgOD1.0.3h3.NJNMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What's your point, you can make hydrogen any number of ways. I asked the group about this once, it isn't an economical way to produce energy either. -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Flytch To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 10:41 PM Subject: [FG]: There was something about aluminum and H2.... >last week there was a conversation about producing H2 from water and >aluminum... Well... I ran across this... >>From Bill's web sight... Sounds just so simple... > > >I don't understand the chemistry involved but this works impressively. Do >this outdoors! Take an old thick-walled soda pop bottle and put in about >three telephones of lye crystals. Drop in several tightly rolled balls of >aluminium foil. Add about one-half cup of water. Notice that a chemical >reaction takes place with the contents getting boiling hot as the foil is >consumed. The fumes that spew from the bottle mouth are lighter than air. >Those fumes come out with enough pressure to inflate balloons put over the >mouth of the bottle. Be careful! The bottle can get hot enough to burn you. >The bottle can in fact get hot enough to fracture, spilling the hot caustic >solution in a highly dangerous manner. Fun stuff if you like floating >balloons and living on the edge! >Ross Macintosh >Halifax, NS Canada - Friday, May 26, 2000 at 16:30:44 (PDT) >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 27 21:51:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01996; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:51:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:51:14 -0700 From: Alan Schneider To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: There was something about aluminum and H2.... Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:50:50 +1000 Message-ID: References: <20000628023915.92580.qmail@hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20000628023915.92580.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA01975 Resent-Message-ID: <"323s82.0.4V.1HOMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com LOL LOL Sorry, I can't resist... On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:39:14 PDT, "Timothy Flytch" wrote: >last week there was a conversation about producing H2 from water and >aluminum... Well... I ran across this... >>From Bill's web sight... Sounds just so simple... >I don't understand the chemistry involved but this works impressively. Do >this outdoors! Take an old thick-walled soda pop bottle and put in about >three telephones of lye crystals. Telephones? Of lye crystals? Timothy... have you invented a new system of measurement here? Or do you mean _teaspoons_? Cheers all, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 00:48:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10221; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 00:47:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 00:47:29 -0700 Message-ID: <395941F5.4493B086@harti.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 02:08:21 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Motoe Suzuki , Free Energy Subject: Re: [FG]: Genesis coils simular toTestatika$B%((Bs big cans ? References: <3958A852.84D2634E@harti.com> <200006272328.AA00933@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e3LDw.0.RV2.9sQMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Motoe, do you have more information about this ? Do you have a web page where it is shown where the errors are ? I got another email saying that this is very realistic and is NO fake and he has tested it already a bit. Please let me know your source of diferent view. Thanks ! Best regards, Stefan, Motoe Suzuki schrieb: > > Hi All, > > Don't fool yourselves. > > All that is shown in http://www.geocities.com/nayado/ is a complete fake. > I know the truth. The japanese who shows this HP has not conducted > experiment with his coils at all. He pretends to do the experiment, and to have a > positive results. He faked the photograph in which a lamp lit at the top of the coil. > His theory has a fatal flaw. He himself admitted that he codded all the things. > Everything has been already disclosed in Japan. > > >Hi, > >thanks to Clipp P. > >he pointed out that the Genesis project coils > >might be the key element found in the Methernitha > >Testatika > >big cans leyden jars. > > > >See here: > >http://www.geocities.com/nayado/ > > > >and section: > > > >WHATS IN THE BIG CAN > > > >in: > >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/swiss.htm > > > >-- > > > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > > ///////// -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 01:22:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16938; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 01:21:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 01:21:36 -0700 Message-Id: <200006280821.AA00936@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> From: Motoe Suzuki Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:21:56 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Genesis coils simular =?ISO-2022-JP?B?dG9UZXN0YXRpa2EbJEIlKBsoQnM=?= big cans ? In-Reply-To: <395941F5.4493B086@harti.com> References: <395941F5.4493B086@harti.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"6wwsd3.0.Y84.EMRMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Mr.Hartmann I can understand your puzzled impression. But, I bet my information is true. One of my acquaintances, Mr.Y, met the man, Mr.S, in Mr.S's room and saw some tips of "Genesis devices"that Mr.S made. Mr.Y was not fully convinced with Mr.S's explanation, because Mr.S did not show the coil itself, but Mr.Y became not so much suspicious at that time. Some days later, Mr.S disclosed to Mr.Y that everything is just a fake and con. There is a web page where Mr.S himself confessed that he didn't conduct experiment at all and that his theory cannot hold. But this web page is all in Japanese. Please note, my information is not from this web page, but from a very reliable and ardent guy, Mr.Y, who seeks a real OU device. I believe Mr.S is quite detrimental. If there is some people telling that it is no fake, I instantly distrust them. Such a people is a victim of Mr.S. > >I got another email saying that this is >very realistic and is NO fake and he has tested >it already a bit. > >Please let me know your source of diferent view. >Thanks ! >Best regards, Stefan, ///////// From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 03:52:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA11481; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 03:52:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 03:52:23 -0700 Message-ID: <006e01bfe0ee$f43649a0$393dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <000701bfddea$88131160$183dee3f@default> <39591AD1.E4EBC949@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Dr. Faile's Knotted Coils Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 06:52:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"bdKjI1.0.8p2.WZTMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Daniel; ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Dr. Faile's Knotted Coils > Are plans available for the unpowered biophysically active knot arrays? > I'm a pretty tough skeptic ( as Sam probably knows from phone interview > ) and would be intrested in building it and trying it out on myself. <:) > > If so, I'd like to get a copy... ****** As far as the more intricate unpowered arrays, Sam would need to send you the diagrams and instructions. I am lousy at things like tying knots and weaving. Give Sam a call, he can describe some of the better geometries, and then send you the winding instructions. > > I don't think I'm susceptible to self-suggestion, or other experiences > that may give false leads. And I could probably find a few people to do > a double blind experiment with.... > > IE, get two boxes, put a coil in one box, and then have a second person > give the boxes to people, and judge their reaction. This person would no > nothing of which box contained the coil. He would hand the data to me > for tabulation. Thus there is no connection between knowing which box > contains a coil, and thus no chance for self-suggestion, etc. > ****** Excellent experiment. There was a family of his knotted coils that I believe was called the Vertabrae or recursive vertabrae set. These I recall, were some of the worst offenders, so to speak. You can mention that to him. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 07:18:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09786; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:17:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:17:21 -0700 Message-ID: <395A08F6.288BF65F@info2000.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:17:27 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Gravity Capacitor / geographic factors References: <200006280032.UAA07237@fh105.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f0Lyh1.0.pO2.nZWMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I thought it was jigawatts. ;) Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 07:28:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA23821; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:20:58 -0700 (PDT) From: DMBoss1021@aol.com Message-ID: <76.8865cc.268b6384@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:19:48 EDT To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 110 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZTovq2.0.1q5.AdWMv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: VCG of Nick Reiter - correlation to Hyde device? Hello All: I am new to this list, having been reading it for a few weeks now. Enjoy the topics, and for the most part, seems to be a practical appraoch to the whole area of the list's stated goals. _______________________________ Nick Reiter's VCG, or Variable Capacitance Generator, is most intriguing. Website: http://www.alliancelink.com/users/avalon/varicap2.htm See his intro message to the list, called: "Introduction from, and projects of Nick Reiter" I was doing some searching on another topic, and came across this excellent article/paper: <> http://www.sumeria.net/free/zpe3.html And upon reading this paper, I find a description, device, and patent which seems to have similar behavior to Nick's VCG. <<...An experiment in which E field lines are abruptly rotated might yield excessive energy from the resulting voltage transients. Such an experiment has already been done, and its description is essentially the invention by Hyde (65). Hyde uses rapidly spinning segmented rotors to abruptly cut E field lines, and his invention is reported to output power TEN TIMES THE INPUT! The invention consists of a pair of excitor plates, a pair of segmented rotors and a pair of segmented stators (Figure 3). Charge is free to migrate on the conductive surfaces comprising the rotors and excitor plates, but on the stators the adjacent, conductive segments are electrically insulated from each other. ...The segments on both rotors are aligned to allow them to shield an aligned pair of stator segments. As the rotor spins, aligned stator segments are ALTERNATELY EXPOSED and SHEILDED from the excitor polarization field. ...The resulting transient zero-point energy coherence accelerates the charges of the stator segment circuit, and the system outputs anomalously excessive energy. >> There is a report that one device Hyde built and tested has the following results: <> This Hyde device seems to operate on a similar principle as Nick Reiter's VCG, and both seem to tap or harness the "primordial energy field" (ZPE, Vacuum Energy, etc.) giving anomalous, or O/U output. The Hyde patent can be seen here: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04897592__ _____________________________ Comments from Nick; or the group? Sincerely, DMBoss1021 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 15:02:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28259; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:39:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: Patrick Bailey Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"nTfyk.0.Lv6.MLdMv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Proceedings of the 2nd International Antigravity Conference (Draft) DRAFT (June 28, 2000) PROCEEDINGS OF THE SECOND INTERNATIONAL ANTI-GRAVITY RESEARCH CONFERENCE June 24-25, 2000 Reno Nevada See for more details: http://www.padrak.com/agn/ TABLE OF CONTENTS CONFERENCE PAPERS: "Introduction to Anti-Gravity and Inertial :Propulsion Research," James Cox. "Is a Bootstrap Lifter Possible? 30 Experiments in the New Physics of Inertia, and Studies of 15 Mechanical Oscillators", James Cox (2 pp). "Theory of the Gravito-Inertial Lift System", James Cox (1 pp). "Classifying and Automatically Un-Classifying Government Documents (Executive Order 12958", James Cox (3 pp). "Gravitational Weight Reduction with ELF EM Radiation," Steve Burns, 06/23/2000 (Presented by James Cox), (8 pp). "A Review of Modern (1988-2000) Biefeld-Brown Effect Replication Experiments," David Rosignoli (21 pp). [An actual demonstration was shown in person of their large T. T. Brown Device using two 3 foot disks, powered by about 15 kV of DC.] "Propellant-less Electromagnetic Propulsion", Stavros Dimitriou (Greece) and David King (UK) (Presented by Patrick Bailey) (4 pp). "Update on Hamel Technology; and A Review of Experiments with the Hamel 45 Gallon Drum Design Variations", Steven Dufresne (Canada) (28 pp). [Steven brought some actual parts, cones, and rings of his device.] POSTER PAPERS - ABSTRACTS READ AT THE MEETING "Supersymmetry, and Quantum Level Metric Distortion," David Schroeder. "Process and Installation for Generating a Gravitational Field," Peter Bettels (Germany), (3 pp). "An Examination of the Dynamics of a Levitating Faraday Homopolar Generator Through a Simple Paradigm of Elementary Classical Physics," Willie Johnson, Jr. (5 pp). VIDEOTAPES: [Will be forthcoming!] List of videotapes available from the Conference (1 pp). ATTENDEES AND CONTACTS: [Will be forthcoming!] List of attendees and Contacts, names, addresses, and email addresses (3 pp) If you are interested in more information about these proceedings (available in about 2 weeks, I hope, then: Email me at: agn@padrak.com Also available now are the Proceedings of the AGN Conference last year. See the above website for a complete description. PB. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 19:14:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA09198; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:13:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:13:13 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01bfe16f$94e4b820$a73dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <76.8865cc.268b6384@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:13:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"1JDRk2.0.UF2.v2hMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: VCG of Nick Reiter - correlation to Hyde device? Hi, All; ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [FG]: VCG of Nick Reiter - correlation to Hyde device? > Nick Reiter's VCG, or Variable Capacitance Generator, is most intriguing. > And upon reading this paper, I find a description, device, and patent which > seems to have similar behavior to Nick's VCG. > > <<...An experiment in which E field lines are abruptly rotated might yield > excessive energy from the resulting voltage transients. > > Such an experiment has already been done, and its description is essentially > the invention by Hyde (65). Hyde uses rapidly spinning segmented rotors to > abruptly cut E field lines, and his invention is reported to output power TEN > TIMES THE INPUT! ****** Back when I was first playing with variable caps three years ago, I looked at the Hyde patent carefully. It certainly is similar to my machine, except that Hyde was "biasing" his segments with a moderately high potential. I tried to find some conduit of contact with Hyde, but to no avail. Sam Faile had tried as well, and found that Hyde had moved several times in the 1980's, then vanished. Very paranoid situation. > ...The segments on both rotors are aligned to allow them to shield an aligned > pair of stator segments. As the rotor spins, aligned stator segments are > ALTERNATELY EXPOSED and SHEILDED from the excitor polarization field. ***** Also similar to the old Charge Mill electrometer. I had fancied that one might build a hybrid VCG / exciter system, using wind power to turn the VCG, and an antenna to pull some charge from the Earth's e-field to bias the segments; ala Jefimenko's electrostatic motor / antenna arrangement. For me, the interest lies more in determining if the production of potentials in a VCG can be observed in a zone of complete external e-field shielding, using grounded components with minimal work function differentials. This sort of arrangement would demonstrate more clearly the principle of varying the Casimir force to produce potentials. As I've said before, the time and effort I've put into the VCG had to do with the prospect of extracting a portion of the overall ZPE from an area, thus creating a zone of negative energy. I would then examine this region for gravity and inertial anomalies. I work on photovoltaics as a day job, so I get my fill of energy conversion for the sake of making electricity. I shall leave over-unity and novel electrical generation methods to you, dear gentlemen. I'm jonesin' for a space drive, gravity effects, or otherwise a convenient means to get off this rock. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 19:44:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19048; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:44:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:44:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001d01bfe16f$94e4b820$a73dee3f@default> References: <76.8865cc.268b6384@aol.com> <001d01bfe16f$94e4b820$a73dee3f@default> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:44:05 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: VCG of Nick Reiter - correlation to Hyde device? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"4N-uJ2.0.Xf4._VhMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:13 PM -0400 6/28/00, Nick Reiter wrote: >I'm jonesin' >for a space drive, gravity effects, or otherwise a convenient means to get >off this rock. Dittos! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI (Where technically it only takes a canoe to get off this rock...) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 20:52:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09584; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:51:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:51:42 -0700 Message-ID: <395AC7C1.833DA389@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:51:30 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"92Yzu3.0.bL2.DViMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Testatika, Hyde's generator, the VDG and VCG In looking over the patent for Hyde's electrostatic generator, it dawned on me that looking at the time line for these sorts of machines might give a little illumination to understanding. Skipping back, we find a patent by Breaux (4127804) dated Nov 28, 1978. This patent is interesting since it was filed on behalf of the United States of America, "as represented by the Secretary of the Air Force"...?? The design is similar to Nick's and there are some impressive, if somewhat tedious mathematics to show the design's worth. Also interesting is the discussion on page 9 about the force of electrostatic attraction - pay particular attention to the use of this design in a vacuum! However, between Hyde and Breanux, there was another machine that was patented, Gundlach (4595852). His application is also quite an interesting read, given that he capsulizes the development of such devices in the early stages of his page 1 of text. Gundlach enumerates that the proper classification for these machines is that of electrostatic induction, or as Whimshurst called it: "Influence Machine"..he also pays homage to Moore's DiRod generator, but makes an interesting clash of statements when he says:"works purely by induction...requiring neither corona nor frictional charging means to produce the potential differences" Now I understand that the DiRod (unlike the earlier mentioned VandeGraaff generator) generator does not use an input spray charge, however it would seem to me that the brushes on the DiRod serve the same exact purpose as the ones on a Whimshurst machine. That is to say the rods are the same as the sector foils! Anyway, later Gundlach states: "..the statistical imbalance in Nature can be depended upon" Referring of course to the charge differentiation in the machine's electron carrying components. He also makes mention of the exponential nature of the process. It's a neat design and I suspect that it's also quite potent, if the calculations are correct, this 100 sq.cm disk makes 20KV at 14 microamps - not bad! Looking it all over, Hyde is the only one who claims actual OU in his patent - (I wonder how he managed that? They usually disqualify any patent application that claims OU performance.) I question his circuit which is supposed to step-down the output from 300KV to some smaller voltage, with the result being more available current. Yes, it's a voltage divider, but what components are we talking about? Has ANYONE been able to replicate his design successfully? Having played with all the standard electrostatic devices, and with the Whimshurst machines quite a lot, it seems to me that the overall problem is the FRICTION in most of the designs, very primitive by modern standards! Hardly any bearings to speak of, and the constant rubbing of the brushes across the face of the disks is probably 50% of the drag. It might be interesting to build a Whimshurst generator which uses the "antenna" like brushes that the Testatika machine has, along with some proper bearings - and perhaps a dual electric motor drive, so as to eliminate the kludged crossed-belt drive mechanism; which by my reckoning, must account for at least 20-30% of the remaining drag in most designs! The last 20-30% being the usual lack of any reasonable bearings for the disks. The units that are normally built for school/lab demos usually have some miserable copper/bronze bushings, if that! Lastly, we all know that the Whimshurst and VDG work best when the humidity is low, but it also seems that this matter of electrostatic induction (charge differentiation, really) works in a vacuum, and perhaps this is it's link to ZPE. -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 28 20:57:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13703; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:56:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:56:48 -0700 Message-ID: <029d01bfe17d$04d9afc0$199b10cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Proceedings of the 2nd International Antigravity Conference(Draft) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:49:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"vy5p12.0.0M3._ZiMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > "A Review of Modern (1988-2000) Biefeld-Brown Effect Replication > Experiments," David Rosignoli (21 pp). > > [An actual demonstration was shown in person of their large T. T. > Brown Device using two 3 foot disks, powered by about 15 kV of DC.] > That's 150kV. (I know. It's a typo.) Actually, what happened was that we demonstrated Brown's Electrokinetic Apparatus in front of the audience. Applying ~100 - 150kVDC caused ~5rpm of revolution. The disks traveled towards the positive electrode. When we covered the disks with plastic to minimize the ion wind effect, the disks revolved in the opposite direction. (The apparatus is an almost exact replica of Brown's original patent. Unfortunately, our results were less spectacular. The drop in our performance can largely be attributed to corona loss and friction in the rotor. We are working on fixing that problem to see just how fast the disks can go.) When I get my website up, I'll post pictures. -David Rosignoli From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 00:03:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA29292; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:02:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:02:47 -0700 Message-ID: <20000629070209.14279.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.235] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: There was something about aluminum and H2.... Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:02:09 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"jYBui2.0.F97.JIlMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: Alan Schneider >Telephones? Of lye crystals? >Timothy... have you invented a new system of measurement >here? Or do you mean _teaspoons_? > >Cheers all, >Alan > I didn't write it... And I guess I didn't read it very closely either...LOL... Timothy... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 05:55:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA25611; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 05:54:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 05:54:30 -0700 Message-ID: <20000629125358.94992.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.102.82.82] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: VCG of Nick Reiter - correlation to Hyde device? Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:53:58 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"cI7Jl1.0.4G6.6SqMv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A very similar device is at: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/rotcap.htm ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 17:14:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20761; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:13:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:13:22 -0700 Message-ID: <395BE70A.5F5912ED@csrlink.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:17:15 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Answer to my picture question..............;-) References: <39592837.70221631@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qrOQt1.0.245.RO-Mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robin, Read below, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Michael Johnston's message of Tue, 27 Jun 2000 18:18:31 -0400: > > The picture on this web page is a graph of the Earth's magnetic field. No, it is a picture of a simulation of the SUN'S field or "Solar Wind" radiating out and the darker arms are concentrated areas, a magnetic storm. What prompted the post was that I read Faraday's ideas on generating power from the fields of the earth (magnetic and electric). This made me think of the earth as part of a huge generator. The sun is the source of the energy, just like the proton in an atom is supposed to be. Energy radiates out from the sun and the orbiting earth cuts these lines of force. This causes earth's electric and magnetic fields or intensifies natural fields due to iron in the planets core. I am making the comparison to the old planetary model of the atom. It seems that we live on the diamagnetic surface of the "coil" in a huge generator. We are surrounded by energy. It makes solar cells seem kinda stupid. That's like using a thermocouple to generate electricity from the heat provided by an electric oven! Hint: Why not just use the electricity that supplies the oven? > I > don't see what it has to do with hydrogen atoms. The way the picture was done, with only the sun and earth visible, made it look like a lone electron orbiting a proton. See? MJ > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 17:17:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA22121; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:17:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000629201142.007a3e50@mail.endirect.qc.ca> X-Sender: marcuscole@mail.endirect.qc.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:11:42 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com From: Marcus Cole Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XMT0v1.0.PP5.6S-Mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Francis chua's Green Gas torch I was just watching a show("La Conquete du Future", on Z, a canadian broadcast) talking briefly about this inventor, Francis Chua, who designed and built this Green Gas torch. It is a welding/cutting torch wich uses H20 as gas! Ordinary tap water is used in this torch and splitted electro-mechanicaly(or so it said) by a varying voltage controled by microprocessor. The cost to operate this device is 10 times less than that of the normal welding/cutting acethylene torch! One of the first of many question i thought about was could we use this torch device and port it to a car engine to make it run on H20? Another one was what is the total energy input vs. output? I have too many jumbled questions to write down at this time, i will try to get www access and find out more info on this. If you have any links to this device, please let me know. Marcus g. Cole From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 17:43:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA31811; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:42:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:42:42 -0700 Message-ID: <395BEDF9.DEBCACA3@csrlink.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:46:50 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------79C54D40885D645B4BC820A5" Resent-Message-ID: <"QDGOT.0.im7.2q-Mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Properties of Gas Kinetics of a Plasma Torch Operated by Water Vapor.* This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------79C54D40885D645B4BC820A5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://flux.aps.org/meetings/BAPSDPP96/abs/G740017.html --------------79C54D40885D645B4BC820A5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="G740017.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="G740017.html" Content-Base: "http://flux.aps.org/meetings/BAPSDPP96 /abs/G740017.html" Content-Location: "http://flux.aps.org/meetings/BAPSDPP96 /abs/G740017.html" Properties of Gas Kinetics of a Plasma Torch Operated by Water Vapor.*

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Session 9T - Supplemental.
POSTER session, Friday morning, November 15
Exhibit Hall - Concourse Level, Adam's Mark

[9T.17] Properties of Gas Kinetics of a Plasma Torch Operated by Water Vapor.*

H.S. Uhm (Naval Surface Warfare Center)

Part 9 of program listing

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--------------79C54D40885D645B4BC820A5-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 18:21:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11326; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:21:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:21:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000629201142.007a3e50@mail.endirect.qc.ca> References: <3.0.5.32.20000629201142.007a3e50@mail.endirect.qc.ca> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:21:02 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Francis chua's Green Gas torch Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"oKkCE.0.tm2.5O_Mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Marcus - You couldn't run a car on the cracked water gas as it takes marginally more energy to crack the water than the energy released by the simple burning flame. However, when these flames are put to various materials, odd things result including reactions that in some cases may be exothermic, yielding more energy than just the flame. I mean, that happens when you set the flame to a piece of paper, so that's not news. But some materials might release some anomalous energy in those flames, and that might lead to something interesting. There's a company working on electrolysing 'dirty' water with carbon arcs that looks interesting. Try searching on "AquaFuel". - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >I was just watching a show("La Conquete du Future", on Z, a canadian >broadcast) talking briefly about this inventor, Francis Chua, who designed >and built this Green Gas torch. It is a welding/cutting torch wich uses >H20 as gas! Ordinary tap water is used in this torch and splitted >electro-mechanicaly(or so it said) by a varying voltage controled by >microprocessor. The cost to operate this device is 10 times less than that >of the normal welding/cutting acethylene torch! > >One of the first of many question i thought about was could we use this >torch device and port it to a car engine to make it run on H20? Another >one was what is the total energy input vs. output? I have too many jumbled >questions to write down at this time, i will try to get www access and find >out more info on this. If you have any links to this device, please let me >know. > >Marcus g. Cole From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 19:53:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13041; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:52:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:52:45 -0700 Message-ID: <004401bfe23e$315a1460$0afd6dcb@ihug.co.nz> From: "Stuart Rae" To: References: <3.0.5.32.20000629201142.007a3e50@mail.endirect.qc.ca> Subject: Re: [FG]: Francis chua's Green Gas torch Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:51:10 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"kAt-P1.0.dB3.yj0Nv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick and Marcus, > > You couldn't run a car on the cracked water gas as it takes > marginally more energy to crack the water than the energy released by > the simple burning flame. However, when these flames are put to > various materials, odd things result including reactions that in some > cases may be exothermic, yielding more energy than just the flame. > Yes, interesting that isn't it. But then again, if the method used to crack the water is NOT electrical, and the method itself is also a thermal energy source, what are the implications .........? For example, I am reliably informed that when ordinary sump oil and water are burned together in the correct manner, they can generate a temperature high enough to melt fire brick. In other words, the same unusual high-temperature/hardness reaction is occurring, that is also demonstrated by burning "Brown's Gas". So in this simple case, isn't there a far greater combined thermal energy output, than the potential energy contained in the oil alone ? ......... if you get my drift. Marcus, for more detailed information, you might look for Browns Gas, the patent of Archie Blue, and the freenrg-l mail archives from the 22nd of February 1998, where Mr. T. R. Knudtson discussed the nature of "Hydroxy" in some depth, over a period of about a year. Stuart From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 20:06:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21208; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:06:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:06:14 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01bfe23e$f1cf2f00$f60c9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: "freenrg L" References: <3.0.5.32.20000629201142.007a3e50@mail.endirect.qc.ca> Subject: Re: [FG]: Francis chua's Green Gas torch Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:53:55 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7UzTx1.0.HB5.bw0Nv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com These are (were ?) actually built and marketed in Singapore a couple of years ago as 'GreenGas welding sets'. The 'inventor' was an East European gentleman, and I have to wonder about Francis Chua and his involvement - if he is Singaporean (seems that name has come up before somewhere, but I can't quite recall where...) At the time I wondered how long the foreigner could maintain his equity - things happen to foreign investors who come up with good ideas - not all of them 'nice'. I went to see the machines and the demonstration was quite impressive (cutting steel cleaner, faster. etc.) But: the electricity consumption was not anomalous and there was an 'additive' and cleaning process that needed to be followed up on a 'monthly basis'. The salesman was reticent (ignorant ?) and he said there was a 'helper' chemical in the cracking process. Additionally, there was an extra oxygen tank hooked up, so it looked like they were not all they said they were. The difference in the flame without the oxygen was huge. The price for a generator started at about 4000 USD. Nice machine, but overpriced. And it needed electricity - lots of it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcus Cole To: ; Sent: 2000 June 30, Friday 01:11 Subject: [FG]: Francis chua's Green Gas torch | I was just watching a show("La Conquete du Future", on Z, a canadian | broadcast) talking briefly about this inventor, Francis Chua, who designed | and built this Green Gas torch. It is a welding/cutting torch wich uses | H20 as gas! Ordinary tap water is used in this torch and splitted | electro-mechanicaly(or so it said) by a varying voltage controled by | microprocessor. The cost to operate this device is 10 times less than that | of the normal welding/cutting acethylene torch! | | One of the first of many question i thought about was could we use this | torch device and port it to a car engine to make it run on H20? Another | one was what is the total energy input vs. output? I have too many jumbled | questions to write down at this time, i will try to get www access and find | out more info on this. If you have any links to this device, please let me | know. | | Marcus g. Cole | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 21:01:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA07897; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:00:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:00:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:00:28 -0400 Message-Id: <200006300400.AAA12356@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Francis chua's Green Gas torch Resent-Message-ID: <"I3Fpk1.0.Ix1.aj1Nv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stuart writes: >Marcus, for more detailed information, you might look for >Browns Gas, the patent of Archie Blue, and the freenrg-l mail archives >from the 22nd of February 1998, where Mr. T. R. Knudtson discussed the >nature of "Hydroxy" in some depth, over a period of about a year. > >Stuart You can also check out www.eagle-research.com and George Wiseman has announced in his newsletter that Brown's Gas has been proven by several labs to remediate nuclear waste in a few minutes. I wrote to him for more info, and got this reply. >Michael, > >I have copies of the test reports that I can photocopy and send for a fee >of $10 to cover my costs. I'll send them to anyone who wants a copy. >Send check to: >Eagle-Research, PO Box 118, Porthill, Idaho, 83853. > >Thank you for your interest and helping discussions on the technology :))) There is obviously something good going on here. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 29 21:13:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12454; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:12:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:12:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:12:53 -0400 Message-Id: <200006300412.AAA15935@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Francis chua's Green Gas torch Resent-Message-ID: <"WDaFV3.0.V23.9v1Nv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com xplorer writes: Additionally, there was > an extra oxygen tank hooked up, so it looked like > they were not all they said they were. The difference > in the flame without the oxygen was huge. With a normal oxy/acetylene cutting torch, you start a smaller sized flame and adjust the oxy/acetylene mixture to get the flame to the right size and color, and use that flame to heat the metal to the melting point. Then with a lever, you blast additional oxygen, most of which is used as a propellent to blast away the molten metal. This is true for thicker steel anyway, which is all I've worked on. The oxy tank may be needed with the Green Gas machine for this reason, I don't know. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 30 10:16:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28263; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:14:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:14:54 -0700 Message-ID: <2718909.962385254324.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:14:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Tilga To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Francis chua's Green Gas torch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 38.26.84.59 Resent-Message-ID: <"O7KbO2.0.Nv6.DMDNv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What is the difference between this 'green gas' torch and the "Browns Gas" discovered by Yull Brown and now researched and produced by inventor George Wiseman? www.eagle-research.com "Browns Gas" is monatomic hydrogen and oxygen-OH. It has anamolous properties. i saw the BG torch in operation at the second to last conference of the now defunct International Tesla Society in Colorado. I ran the flame accross the back of my hand-and I was not burned. Doing this with oxy acet would have put me in the Emergency room of the local hospital. I sublimated a piece of tungsten moments later with the same torch. Can oxy acet do this? Browns gas adjusts itself to the melting points of any dissimilar substances-it would be possible to fuse copper and clay together, although the joint would not have any streingth. In my minds eye, see tremendous applications in sculpture and the arts here, and perhaps the achievement of aesthetic effects undreamed of now. What would browns gas do with semiconductor manufacture, due to its unexplored characteristics? What new types of semiconductors could be fabricated? The Japanese inventor Yoshiro Nakamatsu has used the Browns Gas to create an 'overunity'device that runs on water. He is no fringe crackpot-he invented the computer floppy disk and the digital wristwatch on your hand. He has more patents than any inventor living or dead in his name, and is today known as the "Edison of Japan" See article: DAILY NEWS, Fort Walton Beach, Fla. May 4,1990, C. Reed, "Inventors Flock To Exposition" Daily News, Ft Walton Beach, FLA:1-800-422-0971 He publicly demoed this at an inventors exposition in Monroeville, Pennsylvainia. www.inventionshow.com email= inpex@ix.netcom.com Monroeville Chamber Of Commerce: 412-372-0500 Apparently a Japanese patent has been issued for this device. A search of USPTO records turned up nothing about this, although we would tell you by the other inventions of Nakamatsu on record he is a certifiable Genius...a renaissance man. Felis Catus catusfelis@excite.com On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:21:02 -1000, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Marcus - > > You couldn't run a car on the cracked water gas as it takes > marginally more energy to crack the water than the energy released by > the simple burning flame. However, when these flames are put to > various materials, odd things result including reactions that in some > cases may be exothermic, yielding more energy than just the flame. I > mean, that happens when you set the flame to a piece of paper, so > that's not news. But some materials might release some anomalous > energy in those flames, and that might lead to something interesting. > There's a company working on electrolysing 'dirty' water with carbon > arcs that looks interesting. Try searching on "AquaFuel". > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > >I was just watching a show("La Conquete du Future", on Z, a canadian > >broadcast) talking briefly about this inventor, Francis Chua, who designed > >and built this Green Gas torch. It is a welding/cutting torch wich uses > >H20 as gas! Ordinary tap water is used in this torch and splitted > >electro-mechanicaly(or so it said) by a varying voltage controled by > >microprocessor. The cost to operate this device is 10 times less than that > >of the normal welding/cutting acethylene torch! > > > >One of the first of many question i thought about was could we use this > >torch device and port it to a car engine to make it run on H20? Another > >one was what is the total energy input vs. output? I have too many jumbled > >questions to write down at this time, i will try to get www access and find > >out more info on this. If you have any links to this device, please let me > >know. > > > >Marcus g. Cole > _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 30 10:51:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09898; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:50:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:50:36 -0700 Message-ID: <007401bfe2b9$d517d800$693dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <39591F8A.D747DF0A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:37:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"upngL1.0.UQ2.itDNv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: now for something completely different... Hello, all; Here is a mystery for today. I will welcome any decent input on it, from perspectives of chemistry or material science, or electromagnetics. I have not witnessed this first hand, but it has a long running tradition anecdotally. In Ohio, there is a town called Magnetic Springs. In the late 1800s, it became a resort spot, with health "hotels" and spas. The draw was the artesian well and spring water in the area. The water, among many other claimed curative or tonic properties, was supposedly magnetic. Today, it is a little blip on the map, hardly noticed. There are apparently still some businesses in the village that sell spring water as a novelty, though. The tale went that if a non magnetized iron or steel tool was immersed in the water, when pulled out it would be found to have been magnetized, to the extent of being able to pick up tacks and small nails. Perhaps no more than a quaint folktale. However, around 1980, the partner of one of my amateur science colleagues visited Magnetic Springs, and found an old timer at a gas station who demonstrated the property. The station owner drew a jar of water from a spigot fed by the well on the property. My friend's partner was aked to dip one of the blades from his pocketknife into the water. Somehow, they propped it up and left it for 20 minutes. Upon withdrawing the knife, Russ found that it would now pick up paper clips and tacks. Oddly, the magnetisation seemed to have diminished back to zero by the next day. Hoax? Weird earth energy effect? I reserve judgement. However, my question is this: Does anyone know of any ferrous compounds that retain a magnetic character while in aqueous solution or suspension? (The water was clear and drinkable). Is there a mechanism for this phenomenon that fits with what is known about ferromagnetism? There apparently are at least two other areas claiming to have magnetic spring water; that I have found references to on the net. These are both in Michigan. So it's not antigravity or OU, but it is a curious thing. Any thoughts? Post 'em, or e-mail me privately. Nick Reiter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 30 17:06:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12806; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:05:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:05:28 -0700 Message-ID: <20000701000456.86146.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.254.40.79] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 00:04:56 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"m922E.0.x73.8NJNv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New site found for magnetic motors! <> ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 30 19:29:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25413; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:28:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:28:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bfe305$e802c320$47a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <20000701000456.86146.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:41:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"3Ukds.0.wC6.CTLNv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: New site found for magnetic motors! This new site you are talking about, it's a phony. It's has been on there for several years now. And all it talks about is balonie! That's just my opinion. q; X-Originating-IP: [63.28.80.73] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: renaissance man???? Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:34:59 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"oVM8q1.0.HT2.r4PNv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >a >renaissance man. Just what is this suppose to mean anyway??? And dose anyone know were it came from??? Timothy... >Felis Catus ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com