From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 06:07:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16260; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:07:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:07:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199712011406.MAA27332@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:09:37 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199712010306.UAA09917@smtp02.primenet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"mhYmc2.0.zz3.WIiWq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This minimum energy > area is shifted by the varying right angle field and could result in a > varying field as sensed by the ouput coil (Bifilar), which then generates > the energy. The field at a right angle to the magnet surface is generated > by the machine input coil (Regular solenoid type coil). This coil is > mounted inside the output coil." Could you please give us more details on your coils and the distances between the coils and the magnets ? [...] > I still not entirely sure how to do this, but it involves using the > magnetizer again, after creating the bubbles, to "stop abruptly" (using a > quick timed pulse at precisely the right "phase point" (which I don't know)) > the ba atoms so the external input coil can feed the 60 hz sine wave in. > Just to make things clear, I have not been able to do this part. Haven't you tried another frequencies besides 60 Hz ? > > Well there it is - hope it's meaty. > > Alan Dubla > I already have the magnets and will be doing some experiments with the VTA soon. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 07:38:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05380; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:38:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:38:19 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971129112450.006b2bf4@multinet.net.il> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:24:50 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lev Robert Subject: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dLxkI.0.yJ1.fdjWq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All I have read the paper dealing with the subject from www.teleport.com that is SingTech home page. Since I'm leaving far away from the States and have no on the spot info about the subject perhaps someone has checked the reactor that they clamed to have built. It is very interesting and also not so expansive. Would appreciate more about the technology used Robert BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 12:00:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04310; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:00:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:00:26 -0800 Message-ID: <348308CA.9E307AFC@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:58:37 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Alan Dubla Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <199712010306.UAA09917@smtp02.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7RmpH2.0.A31.OTnWq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AJ Dubla wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > Ok, here is what I am doing with recreating the VTA. > > In a paper written by Don Watson - April 10, 1994, a design similiar to > Floyd Sweet's VTA is talked about. Where can copies of this be obtained? > If you had a magnet with a face of 4"by6", the bubble would be visible with > magnetic field viewing paper... How does this stuff work? Is it easy to get? Is it easy to make at 'home'? > The light glowy green area on the magnet > face is the bloch wall, the area where N and S meet...this is the bubble. > In the same magnet before I zapped it, the bloch wall was parallel with the > face of the magnet, and only viewable from the side...I modified the field > by flipping it 90 degrees...now, the poles are flipped on their sides, and > the bubble is visible on the face. If you bring another magnet, or > electromagnet near it, (especially with the field at 90 degess) the bubble > will move easily out of the way, and then return to its original position > when you remove the foreign field. This is what Don Watson was talking about. I had trouble understanding your picture and commentry before. I think I have it now:- 1) There are two rows of four *ring magnets* lying flat faces down? 2) There are two strips of magnetic paper, one lying over the top of each row? 3) A thin green ring is shrinking from the first to the last magnet, which shows the green ring half way between the inner and outer diameter (of the ring magnet)? 4) What do the written 0.5mm steps refer to? 5) If a ring magnet is magnetised through it's thickness, say South on the paper and North facing up, the bloch wall will slice half way along it's thickness. Do you then arrange for the N. pole to be moved towards the inner cylindrical surface, and the S. pole to remain on the bottom face? The poles will then be physicaly at 90 deg. to each other? 6) Is the magnet itself magnetised in this 90 deg. configuration, if so, what is the shape/materials of your magnetising tool and winding configuration? 7) Or have you magnetised the ring through it's thickness at an angle, so the poles are on the inner and outer cylindrical surfaces? 8) Your photos could be of iether 6) or 7), or some combination. 9) There will be two equal sized bubbles in a normal straight axialy magnetised magnet. With anisotropic BaFe it is posible to bend the magnetising axis to arrange for two unequal sized bubbles? 10) The two asymetrically sized bubbles are more 'unstable' and and oscilate more easily than when the poles are opposite and form equally sized bubbles? 11) The bubbles associated with a ring magnet are in fact donut shaped? I would appreciate your comments. > Then you have to trap the sine wave inside the magnets. I think it was John Steck who posted recently on some comercial magnetisers which impose an A.C. component to enhance the process of magnetising. Any body got some more details of this? Searl claimed to have discovered that a small 10exp+2 mA of RF at 10exp+7 Hz could be 'printed' onto ferite magnets as circular tracks like a tyre's treads, at the same time as the main D.C. field is applied. His SEG device is simmilar to some of Hamels stuff, in shape at least. > In one of Tom Bearden's latest email posts he says, > > "So you first get everything going in the nucleus. Then sharply quit doing > it, at precisely the correct phase point, and open up the entire atom's > Faraday cage (the electron shells) to the passage of anything you wish. What about the electron capture speculation on Vortex now? Maybe some of those suggestions may open some ideas up? > You can place a small piece of soft iron > shim stock so that it stands away from a pole of such a magnet, and the shim > stock will vibrate gently back and forth. You can leave it there for three > weeks, and it will still be vibrating. The FIELD of the magnet is now > vibrating." (Tom Bearden, "Antigravity, Kinetic Magnets, and All That" 1997) The Grey magnetic motor is also supposed to sponteneously vibrate and/or/as the neutral line (block wall?) is traversed by soft iron, causing induced pole reversals in the soft iron. I tried to look for this and failed. Tim Vaughn has succeeded. > Well there it is - hope it's meaty. > > Alan Dubla Hi Alan, Thanks very much for sharing this. Please excuse me if my questions are a bit basic. I want to establish some common ground so we all know exactly what we are talking about! (And fill my knowledge gaps.....) I've noticed with Hamel's stuff, the SMOT etc.... a requirment to set-up a delicate balance, a pencil on it's point. It may or may not be possible to exploit these states by encouraging resonance at low energy cost to gain greater output. The key is in identifying some sort of decoupling or one way process and use it in the system. The bubble's external field is presumably coupled to the output coil but is de-couped in the reverse direction? When it flips it's flux generates a current in the coil with no backwards effects? Again, I'd like to just explore these issues a bit before I jump into this project. -- --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 12:40:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13110; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:39:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:39:17 -0800 Message-ID: <34831FE8.3E09@darknet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:36:56 -0500 From: Steve Reply-To: darklord@darknet.net Organization: DarkNet Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: cool site relating to expanding universe demo.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VV3a32.0.kC3.q1oWq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2453 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A while ago, there was some discussion about using a spinning spiral to simulate the appearance of an expanding universe.. I've found a site with this illusion on it, as well as many others. http://www.illusionworks.com/spiral.htm enjoy.. :) ttyl -Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 13:33:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22151; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:26:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:26:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:13:40 -0500 From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@compuserve.com> Subject: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Sender: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Message-ID: <199712011613_MC2-2A4C-FA17@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA22112 Resent-Message-ID: <"9ySKl.0.wP5.OkoWq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Robert Bushilev, In response to your post of 12-01-97, please see the following response to an E-mail I sent to Scybolt. (I know, I used response twice, so sue me, Grammer Police!) Dear Glenn, Thanks for your email. You wrote: >Dear Charles, > > >I read with great interest the information provided on your web site! >The only question I have is "Can I buy one now?" >If the aswer is "yes", please send me a catalog, order form or price list. >I am hoping, like so many others I have investigated, that your device is >not "still >in development and on the verge of immenient breakthrough" (for want of >funds). >Please let me know. > >Sincerely, > >Glenn F. Hinton Too bad, Glenn - it still is in the development stage. Everyone wants the man but nobody wants to raise the baby. Please go to my website at http://www.teleport.com/~singtech which I have just updated on 11/29/97 and 11/30/97. Much has been added which can help answer your questions. Some of the site looks the same (and some of it is) but much is new. Best Regards, Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 In my opinion (could very well be wrong), but after going through the scybolt website, I saw alot of fluff finished off with a thinly disguised request for "funds for further development". Don't get me wrong, we are all about research here, it just did'nt look right to me. Have a good trip, Glenn Hinton From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 16:43:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17227; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:42:12 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:42:12 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712011613_MC2-2A4C-FA17@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:41:10 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Resent-Message-ID: <"zcGYL3.0.0D4.VbrWq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 4:13 PM -0500 12/1/97, Glenn F. Hinton wrote: >In my opinion (could very well be wrong), but after going through the >scybolt website, >I saw alot of fluff finished off with a thinly disguised request for "funds >for further development". Fluff? How about "The Wrath to Come" page? (http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/wrath.html) You call predicting "The Day of Wrath" fluff? And what about the "Apocalyptic Physics" page (http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/Apocal.html) where Cagle claims that his "technology owes its emergence to a New and Apocalyptic Physics taught to men by the LIVING GOD." >Don't get me wrong, we are all about research here, it just did'nt look >right to me. Didn't look right to me, either... I think this guy is a con man, and he's trying to sell his 'technology' as a means to survive the impending cataclysm, which is going to happen real soon now... This is not much different from the folks who will sell you a year's supply of food, packed in nitrogen filled enamel cans. Except, of course, as Art Bell likes to point out, with food "you can always eat your investment." ;-) r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 17:41:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10685; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:40:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:40:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:03:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712011903.MAA14814@smtp01.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mark@plug-in.com.br, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"F_GnL.0.sc2.HSsWq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2456 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, in reply: At 12:09 PM 12/1/97 -3, mark@plug-in.com.br wrote: >> This minimum energy >> area is shifted by the varying right angle field and could result in a >> varying field as sensed by the ouput coil (Bifilar), which then generates >> the energy. The field at a right angle to the magnet surface is generated >> by the machine input coil (Regular solenoid type coil). This coil is >> mounted inside the output coil." > >Could you please give us more details on your coils and the distances >between the coils and the magnets ? I have been most successfull standard round magnets of 1.25" diameter. The coil I used to zap the bubble into place is wrapped around 2"id pvc pipe, length is 2" (overkill, but I had it on hand), wire is 18 awg - solid copper with plastic insulation (standard radio shack single red spool stuff) about 200 turns (seven layers deep by about 30 turns across, again overkill). The magnet sits centered in the middles of the coil using 2 pvc test caps (one fits on on the end of the 2" pvc pipe, and the other (for 1.75"id pipe) is glued on top of it inside the coil and acts as a holder for the magnet. Once you have all that, it's a zap of about 200 joules once or twice in either direction. How's that? > >[...] > >> I still not entirely sure how to do this, but it involves using the >> magnetizer again, after creating the bubbles, to "stop abruptly" (using a >> quick timed pulse at precisely the right "phase point" (which I don't know)) >> the ba atoms so the external input coil can feed the 60 hz sine wave in. >> Just to make things clear, I have not been able to do this part. > >Haven't you tried another frequencies besides 60 Hz ? No, not yet. > >> >> Well there it is - hope it's meaty. >> >> Alan Dubla >> > >I already have the magnets and will be doing some experiments with >the VTA soon. > > Marcelo > > Marcelo - good luck. :) What type of magnets are you going to be modifying? Cheers, Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 17:42:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25491; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:41:46 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:41:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:03:39 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712011903.MAA14858@smtp01.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"9gpRz3.0.BE6.NTsWq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2457 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, In reply: At 07:58 PM 12/1/97 +0100, redesign@pavilion.co.uk wrote: >AJ Dubla wrote: >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> Ok, here is what I am doing with recreating the VTA. >> >> In a paper written by Don Watson - April 10, 1994, a design similiar to >> Floyd Sweet's VTA is talked about. > > >Where can copies of this be obtained? Good question. I guess I'll have to try and type it up. > > >> If you had a magnet with a face of 4"by6", the bubble would be visible with >> magnetic field viewing paper... > > >How does this stuff work? Is it easy to get? Is it easy to make at 'home'? I ordered it from Magnet Sales in California. It's called Magnet Viewing Paper, and costs about $50 for a square foot. Most magnet shops carry it. > > >> The light glowy green area on the magnet >> face is the bloch wall, the area where N and S meet...this is the bubble. >> In the same magnet before I zapped it, the bloch wall was parallel with the >> face of the magnet, and only viewable from the side...I modified the field >> by flipping it 90 degrees...now, the poles are flipped on their sides, and >> the bubble is visible on the face. If you bring another magnet, or >> electromagnet near it, (especially with the field at 90 degess) the bubble >> will move easily out of the way, and then return to its original position >> when you remove the foreign field. This is what Don Watson was talking about. > > >I had trouble understanding your picture and commentry before. > >I think I have it now:- > >1) There are two rows of four *ring magnets* lying flat faces down? Yes >2) There are two strips of magnetic paper, one lying over the top of each row? Yes >3) A thin green ring is shrinking from the first to the last magnet, which >shows the green ring half way between the inner and outer diameter (of the >ring magnet)? Exactly >4) What do the written 0.5mm steps refer to? The voltage I applied to get the effect, I think it was 205 volts where the bubble was right in the middle (from memory). >5) If a ring magnet is magnetised through it's thickness, say South on the >paper and North facing up, the bloch wall will slice half way along it's >thickness. Do you then arrange for the N. pole to be moved towards the inner >cylindrical surface, and the S. pole to remain on the bottom face? The poles >will then be physicaly at 90 deg. to each other? Not exactly, the n pole is on the inside and the s pole is on the outside - but that depends on the orientation of the bubble in how it was modified. >6) Is the magnet itself magnetised in this 90 deg. configuration, if so, what >is the shape/materials of your magnetising tool and winding configuration? I have explained that in a similar email, that should arrive the same time as this one. Please check there. >7) Or have you magnetised the ring through it's thickness at an angle, so the >poles are on the inner and outer cylindrical surfaces? Yes that's it. >8) Your photos could be of iether 6) or 7), or some combination. >9) There will be two equal sized bubbles in a normal straight axialy >magnetised magnet. With anisotropic BaFe it is posible to bend the magnetising >axis to arrange for two unequal sized bubbles? >10) The two asymetrically sized bubbles are more 'unstable' and and oscilate >more easily than when the poles are opposite and form equally sized bubbles? Hmmm, I look at it as one bubble per magnet, but may be I'm not fully understanding you. >11) The bubbles associated with a ring magnet are in fact donut shaped? I believe so. > >I would appreciate your comments. > > > >> Then you have to trap the sine wave inside the magnets. > > >I think it was John Steck who posted recently on some comercial magnetisers >which impose an A.C. component to enhance the process of magnetising. Any body >got some more details of this? > >Searl claimed to have discovered that a small 10exp+2 mA of RF at 10exp+7 Hz >could be 'printed' onto ferite magnets as circular tracks like a tyre's >treads, at the same time as the main D.C. field is applied. His SEG device is >simmilar to some of Hamels stuff, in shape at least. > > > >> In one of Tom Bearden's latest email posts he says, >> >> "So you first get everything going in the nucleus. Then sharply quit doing >> it, at precisely the correct phase point, and open up the entire atom's >> Faraday cage (the electron shells) to the passage of anything you wish. > > >What about the electron capture speculation on Vortex now? Maybe some of those >suggestions may open some ideas up? > > >> You can place a small piece of soft iron >> shim stock so that it stands away from a pole of such a magnet, and the shim >> stock will vibrate gently back and forth. You can leave it there for three >> weeks, and it will still be vibrating. The FIELD of the magnet is now >> vibrating." (Tom Bearden, "Antigravity, Kinetic Magnets, and All That" 1997) > > >The Grey magnetic motor is also supposed to sponteneously vibrate and/or/as >the neutral line (block wall?) is traversed by soft iron, causing induced pole >reversals in the soft iron. I tried to look for this and failed. Tim Vaughn >has succeeded. > > >> Well there it is - hope it's meaty. >> >> Alan Dubla > > >Hi Alan, > >Thanks very much for sharing this. Your welcome. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a waist of time. I have invested more money in this than I care to disclose, not to mention a lot of time. I believe it is possible though, and that's why I keep trying. > >Please excuse me if my questions are a bit basic. I want to establish some >common ground so we all know exactly what we are talking about! (And fill my >knowledge gaps.....) No problem, In collecting this information I have talked to a good number of people, and when talking about this it is very easy to not understand or walk away with a different meaning than what was expressed. > >I've noticed with Hamel's stuff, the SMOT etc.... a requirment to set-up a >delicate balance, a pencil on it's point. It may or may not be possible to >exploit these states by encouraging resonance at low energy cost to gain >greater output. The key is in identifying some sort of decoupling or one way >process and use it in the system. The bubble's external field is presumably >coupled to the output coil but is de-couped in the reverse direction? When it >flips it's flux generates a current in the coil with no backwards effects? > >Again, I'd like to just explore these issues a bit before I jump into this project. > >-- > >--------- >Rob Dowse > > Ok, it will take me some time to get the Watson article type up, and I have to check on legalities too. Cheers, Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 21:28:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28039; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:28:21 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:28:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712020526.AAA10283@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Cc: Subject: bizarre hi-tech company Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:15:10 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YTaA72.0.yr6.qnvWq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2458 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Check out http://www.unitelnw.com They have a theory from which they propose to build: 1) "a complex beam of combined energies that have a variety of useful effects on biological systems" 2) "the world's first mechanical stress modulated, microwave activated, optical computing device" and last but *certainly* not least: 3) a spacecraft capable of macroscopic quantum tunneling(!) I haven't had time to read their entire site, but the first two applications sound about plausible. The third one is anyone's guess -- their description is so technical that for all I know, they could've made it up. But if they're *not* making it up, everybody else in the ZPE field is going to be out of a job -- they've covered everything you could ever hope to do. "There are four kinds of people in this world: cretins, fools, morons, and lunatics." --Umberto Eco From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 02:00:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA22864; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:00:18 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:00:18 -0800 (PST) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:58:44 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3487b4c8.36424100@mail.eisa.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-UNbM.0.9b5.mmzWq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2459 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:41:10 -0500, ralph muha wrote: [snip] >Didn't look right to me, either... > >I think this guy is a con man, and he's trying >to sell his 'technology' as a means to survive >the impending cataclysm, which is going to happen >real soon now... Funny, that was my first impression several years back. However I have been corresponding with him ever since, and I now believe that he is sincere, in as much as he himself certainly believes what he says. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 04:13:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA00795; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:13:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:13:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3483FB9A.58D1@servtech.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 07:14:18 -0500 From: "Robert W. Gray" Reply-To: rwgray@servtech.com Organization: P.D.Structures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <199712011903.MAA14814@smtp01.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YvcgN.0.KC.Ej_Wq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2460 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, My name is Bob Gray and I just joined this group. I am interested in Sweet's VTA and would like to begin investigating the magnitization process. So, I am looking for info on what to do, how to set things up, what circuits to build, what kind of amplifiers, etc... I would appreciate it if someone who has been at this for a while would help me get going. I don't need to waste my time and money stumbling around. (Look at it this way... Here is another person willing to make attempts at independent varification of the results you claim to be getting.) A.J. Dubla told me he just posted a note on this list which has some of this info in it. Any chance someone could send it to me. I see the archives for this list (which I am starting to go through) but Dubla's note is very recent and so would not be in the archives. Please send to rwgray@servtech.com (No need to post it on the list a second time.) Well, I hope to be working with you all in the future. Thanks in advance... Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 08:42:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09288; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:41:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:41:04 -0800 X-Sender: bfox@istar.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun Fox Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Message-Id: Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:41:30 -0500 Resent-Message-ID: <"cM17O3.0.eG2.Re3Xq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2461 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Re; the following: I respectfully suggest that sincerity is not a good test of truth. Byrun. > >Funny, that was my first impression several years back. However I have >been corresponding with him ever since, and I now believe that he is >sincere, in as much as he himself certainly believes what he says. >[snip] > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on >temperature. >"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." >PS - no SPAM thanks! >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 10:15:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19585; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:14:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:14:34 -0800 (PST) From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:12:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Message-ID: <19971202.101236.3366.0.tv@juno.com> References: <199712011903.MAA14858@smtp01.primenet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4,6-8,10,12-15,18-26,30-31,35-36,39-40,43-44, 50-51,53-54,56-57,59-64 Resent-Message-ID: <"lHgtO2.0.hn4.y_4Xq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2462 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >AJ Dubla wrote: (I think) >The Gary (not Grey) magnetic motor is also supposed to sponteneously vibrate and/or/as >the neutral line (block wall?) is traversed by soft iron, causing induced pole >reversals in the soft iron. I tried to look for this and failed. Tim Vaughn >has succeeded. I simply repeated the simple experiment with a magnet, a strip of soft iron, and small tack nail described in the article on Wesley Gary in 1879 issue of Harpers magazine. see my web page on this at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 As you move the soft iron strip toward the poles of a U shaped magnet there is a point where enough magnetism is induced to cause the small nail to be attracted to the soft iron and stick to it. Horshoe magnet S !!======== N !! !! !! <--Soft iron strip !! !! !!======== S !!<------ small nail sticks here N As the soft iron is moved yet closer to the magnet, a point is reached where the small nail falls off. Moving the soft iron strip still closer causes the nail to stick again and the polarity is reversed on the soft iron strip. This is Wesley Gary's "Neutral Line". Gary makes it clear that is not a line in the space around the magnet but is a condition created in the soft iron. A condition (I think) where there is domain alignment in the iron but a zero net alignment as a whole. Gary claimed to have found iron strips (our compound layered strips) that made an abrupt transition on crossing the neutral line which used as the basis for an electrical generator. Gary never claimed that he succeeded (or even tried) to make his electric generator self sustaining although he said that he thought one of his recipricating magnet motors might run the generator. Gary definetly claimed that both his recipricating and circular magnetic motors operated by themselves in a self-sustaining mode. They were flea-power demonstration toys in the same way that Greg Watson's Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy (SMOT) does not put out significant power but is only demonstating a very interesting anomoly (at least we hope to see that when we see the kits he is shipping). So far two people have claimed to see the SMOT self sustain (close the loop), Greg Watson and a fellow who called himself EPITAXY. Epitaxy's SMOT used glass balls filled with powdered iron and neodynium magnets. Hey Epitaxy, what ever happened to you ? Did you try any more such experiments ? Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 13:55:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28812; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:54:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:54:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348474F2.255C4A97@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:52:28 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Robert Grey , Alan Dubla , Marchelo Phul Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <199712011903.MAA14814@smtp01.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Gpuq1.0.527.dE8Xq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2463 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AJ Dubla wrote: > I have been most successfull standard round magnets of 1.25" diameter. Do you mean rings with holes in the middle? BTW flat disc magnet made from isotropic material can have all sorts of bizzare pole arrangmants, e.g. a north pole in the middle surrounded by the south pole all on one face, the opposite side has no pole at all! Or you can divide up the disc into 4 or 6 or however many cake segments each with the opposite polarity to it's neighbour. > The coil I used to zap the bubble into place is wrapped around 2"id pvc pipe, > length is 2" (overkill, but I had it on hand), wire is 18 awg - solid copper > with plastic insulation (standard radio shack single red spool stuff) about > 200 turns (seven layers deep by about 30 turns across, again overkill). > > The magnet sits centered in the middles of the coil using 2 pvc test caps > (one fits on on the end of the 2" pvc pipe, and the other (for 1.75"id pipe) > is glued on top of it inside the coil and acts as a holder for the magnet. > Once you have all that, it's a zap of about 200 joules once or twice in > either direction. > How's that? A solenoid produces a magnetid field normal to it's main axis: it behaves as a normal bar magnet would, with one pole formed at each open end of the tube when dc current is passing. If your ring magnet is allready magnetised through it's thickness I don't understand how you are doing anything to modify it's field (unless you are simply reversig it). Maybe the magnet can be lodged at an angle in your rig when it's zapped? Although this would cause the poles to be offset. Or is the solenoid sitting with one open end on the bench top, the other end pointing to the ceiling with the ring magnet orientated like a car wheel inside the solenoid? The magnetising field would then be at right angles to the original field in the magnet (which was through it's thickness)? -- Hi All, I hope I'm not getting too tiresome. I want to be clear exactly what's going on here. We may be able to make some progress.....!! --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 14:04:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00193; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:04:01 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:04:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:01:26 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freenergy Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"30Elq1.0.v2.8N8Xq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2464 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AJ Dubla wrote: >In a paper written by Don Watson - April 10, 1994, a design similiar to >Floyd Sweet's VTA is talked about. I guess I'll have to try and type it up. Excellent I look foreward to reading this. Thanks in advance. Or would you prefer (easier?) to snail mail a copy? > The light glowy green area on the magnet > face is the bloch wall, the area where N and S meet...this is the bubble. > In the same magnet before I zapped it, the bloch wall was parallel with the > face of the magnet, and only viewable from the side...I modified the field > by flipping it 90 degrees...now, the poles are flipped on their sides, and > the bubble is visible on the face. (Please see the rngflx.gif attached. This is very rough and NOT suposed to accurate, just enough to get the idea across). So the ring magnet must have been magnetised through it's thickness when you first got it (before you modified it). What I fail to understand is precicely what 'structure/s' the bubble is supposed to be composed of. You can see that the 'lobes' formed by the (equipotential) flux lines form bubbles, but they are allways in pairs. We can push and squeeze the poles themselves around, especially in an isotropic magnet (i.e. no prefered magnetisation direction) and get one bubble larger than the other. I though the object of the exercise was to move the bloch wall to something similar to my fig 2. Please can you explain as I am being very thick over this one! > If you bring another magnet, or electromagnet near it, (especially with the field at 90 degess) the > bubble will move easily out of the way, and then return to its original position > when you remove the foreign field. This is what Don Watson was talking about. Wouldn't this would happen in any case? I imagine some kind of instability being created in the treated magnets when the unequal sized lobes, as I have called them, or the bubbles, can be wobbled around (by whatever means) more easily? ... magnetic paper... I get some of this tommorow!!! *%!)ing expensive too. > >4) What do the written 0.5mm steps refer to? > > The voltage I applied to get the effect, I think it was 205 volts where the > bubble was right in the middle (from memory). I don't understand how the voltage can affect the orientation of the field unless the material is anisotropic and is being stressed somehow. Or the power is not quite enough to over come the factory fitted field! > >7) Or have you magnetised the ring through it's thickness at an angle, so the > >poles are on the inner and outer cylindrical surfaces? > > Yes that's it. > > >8) Your photos could be of iether 6) or 7), or some combination. > >9) There will be two equal sized bubbles in a normal straight axialy > >magnetised magnet. With anisotropic BaFe it is posible to bend the magnetising > >axis to arrange for two unequal sized bubbles? > >10) The two asymetrically sized bubbles are more 'unstable' and and oscilate > >more easily than when the poles are opposite and form equally sized bubbles? > > Hmmm, I look at it as one bubble per magnet, but may be I'm not fully > understanding you. > > >11) The bubbles associated with a ring magnet are in fact donut shaped? > > I believe so. See my comments, the attached gif and questions above. > >Thanks very much for sharing this. > > Your welcome. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a waist of time. I have > invested more money in this than I care to disclose, not to mention a lot of > time. I believe it is possible though, and that's why I keep trying. Yes. I would certainly like to put it to sleep at least if nothing better comes of it. It's been bugging me too for a couple of years! -- Hi Alan, --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 14:33:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29644; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:32:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:32:55 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:10:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Message-ID: <19971202.172300.6374.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199712010306.UAA09917@smtp02.primenet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-8 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"3U0kl3.0.4F7.Lo8Xq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2465 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:06:42 -0700 (MST) ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) writes: >(Tom Bearden, "Antigravity, Kinetic Magnets, and All That" 1997) > Do you know where I can find a copy of this? Thanks. Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 14:58:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10481; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:56:37 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:56:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34848F58.225D@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:44:40 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Gary motor References: <199712011903.MAA14858@smtp01.primenet.com> <19971202.101236.3366.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ThS363.0.UZ2.N89Xq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tv@juno.com wrote: > > >AJ Dubla wrote: (I think) > >The Gary (not Grey) magnetic motor is also supposed to sponteneously > vibrate and/or/as > >the neutral line (block wall?) is traversed by soft iron, causing > induced pole > >reversals in the soft iron. I tried to look for this and failed. Tim > Vaughn > >has succeeded. > > I simply repeated the simple experiment with a magnet, a strip of soft > iron, and small > tack nail described in the article on Wesley Gary in 1879 issue of > Harpers magazine. > see my web page on this at: > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > > As you move the soft iron strip toward the poles of a U shaped magnet > there is a point where enough magnetism is induced to cause the small > nail to be attracted to the soft iron and stick to it. > > Horshoe magnet S > !!======== N !! > !! !! <--Soft iron strip > !! !! > !!======== S !!<------ small nail sticks here this may be true but is miss infomation in the patent works better as below > > As the soft iron is moved yet closer to the magnet, a point is reached > where the small nail falls off. Moving the soft iron strip still closer > causes the nail to stick again and the polarity is reversed on the soft > iron strip. This is Wesley Gary's "Neutral Line". > > Gary makes it clear that is not a line in the space around the magnet but > is a condition created in the soft iron. A condition (I think) where > there is domain alignment in the iron but a zero net alignment as a > whole. > > Gary claimed to have found iron strips (our compound layered strips) that > made an abrupt transition on crossing the neutral line which used as the > basis for an electrical generator. > > Gary never claimed that he succeeded (or even tried) to make his > electric generator self sustaining although he said that he thought one > of his recipricating magnet motors might run the generator. > > Gary definetly claimed that both his recipricating and circular magnetic > motors operated by themselves in a self-sustaining mode. They were > flea-power demonstration toys > > Tim Vaughan > ( tv@juno.com) > NNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNN SSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSS NN-----------wwwwwwwwww------- NNThis is Wesley Gary's "Neutral Line". NNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNN TOP BOTTEM SSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSS N S /\ N N S S vibrate coil winding up and down N N S S \/ N N S S N N S S CCCCC IIIIIIIIIIWWWWWIIIIIIIIIIRON CCCCCC **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive EXPERIMENTAL RESEARCH From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 15:06:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01983; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:05:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:05:56 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:05:51 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: NASA Looks Toward Visionary Interstellar Travel (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Q_g4Q1.0.sU.JH9Xq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FYI only ;) Interesting band-width? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:56:32 -0500 (EST) From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov To: usat@usa.net Subject: NASA Looks Toward Visionary Interstellar Travel David M. DeFelice Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, OH Dec. 2, 1997 (Phone: 216/433-6186) RELEASE I97-11 NASA LOOKS TOWARD VISIONARY INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL Many people wonder when we will be able to travel to distant solar systems as easily as envisioned in science fiction. Discover NASA's perspective on the prospects that exist today for achieving such far-future visions via a new World Wide Web site called, "Warp Drive, When?" Explore the site at: http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/warp.htm This web site explains the challenges of interstellar travel, the prospects and limitations of existing propulsion ideas, and the prospects emerging from science that may one day provide the breakthroughs needed to enable practical interstellar voyages. Analogies to familiar science fiction are used to simplify concepts such as "warp drive." For a look at what NASA is doing to achieve such breakthroughs, another web site is available about the new NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program: http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/ This modest program is taking a step-by-step approach toward discovering the ultimate breakthroughs needed to revolutionize space travel and enable human journeys to other star systems - credible progress toward incredible possibilities. This program represents the combined efforts of individuals from various NASA centers, other government labs, universities and industry. - end - From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 15:22:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05451; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:22:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:22:24 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:22:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712022322.QAA06583@smtp04.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"1efHJ3.0.-K1.jW9Xq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:10 PM 12/2/97 -0500, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > >On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:06:42 -0700 (MST) ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) >writes: > >>(Tom Bearden, "Antigravity, Kinetic Magnets, and All That" 1997) >> >Do you know where I can find a copy of this? Thanks. > >Steve Heckman > > Steve, It was mailed to me, but I have since found it on Keelynet - take a look there, if you still can't find it I will look for it. The copy I have is the half html, half email so it's kind of messy. Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 15:46:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18569; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:45:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:45:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:44:00 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712022344.QAA14120@smtp04.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk, Freenergy From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"_20M12.0._X4.As9Xq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:01 PM 12/2/97 +0100, redesign@pavilion.co.uk wrote: >AJ Dubla wrote: > > >>In a paper written by Don Watson - April 10, 1994, a design similiar to >>Floyd Sweet's VTA is talked about. I guess I'll have to try and type it up. > > >Excellent I look foreward to reading this. Thanks in advance. Or would you >prefer (easier?) to >snail mail a copy? I will just type it up for everyone. > > >> The light glowy green area on the magnet >> face is the bloch wall, the area where N and S meet...this is the bubble. >> In the same magnet before I zapped it, the bloch wall was parallel with the >> face of the magnet, and only viewable from the side...I modified the field >> by flipping it 90 degrees...now, the poles are flipped on their sides, and >> the bubble is visible on the face. > > >(Please see the rngflx.gif attached. This is very rough and NOT suposed to >accurate, just enough to get the idea across). So the ring magnet must have >been magnetised through it's thickness when you first got it (before you >modified it). What I fail to understand is precicely what 'structure/s' the >bubble is supposed to be composed of. You can see that the 'lobes' formed by >the (equipotential) flux lines form bubbles, but they are allways in pairs. We >can push and squeeze the poles themselves around, especially in an isotropic >magnet (i.e. no prefered magnetisation direction) and get one bubble larger >than the other. I though the object of the exercise was to move the bloch wall >to something similar to my fig 2. Please can you explain as I am being very >thick over this one! The magnet was fully magnetized when I got it, but it doesn't matter - I have tried it with magnetized and unmagnetized alike. Your figure #3 is the way I would visualize it. > > > >> If you bring another magnet, or electromagnet near it, (especially with the field at 90 >degess) the >> bubble will move easily out of the way, and then return to its original position >> when you remove the foreign field. This is what Don Watson was talking about. > > >Wouldn't this would happen in any case? I imagine some kind of instability >being created in the treated magnets when the unequal sized lobes, as I have >called them, or the bubbles, can be wobbled around (by whatever means) more easily? The trick here is that a small 'tickler' input wave will be big enough to get the bubble to oscillate easily. When the magnet is fully magnetized it requires a larger signal making it harder to get over-unity. > > >... magnetic paper... > > >I get some of this tommorow!!! *%!)ing expensive too. > > >> >4) What do the written 0.5mm steps refer to? >> >> The voltage I applied to get the effect, I think it was 205 volts where the >> bubble was right in the middle (from memory). > > >I don't understand how the voltage can affect the orientation of the field >unless the material is anisotropic and is being stressed somehow. Or the power >is not quite enough to over come the factory fitted field! It only took me about 110 volts to modify the field, but it took about 200 volts to get the bubble centered in the magnet - which is just a guess at where it should be. These ceramic magnets do react differently to the external field as compared to a metal magnet. I don't know exactly why, but some time I'll have enough time to research it. > > >> >7) Or have you magnetised the ring through it's thickness at an angle, so the >> >poles are on the inner and outer cylindrical surfaces? >> >> Yes that's it. >> >> >8) Your photos could be of iether 6) or 7), or some combination. >> >9) There will be two equal sized bubbles in a normal straight axialy >> >magnetised magnet. With anisotropic BaFe it is posible to bend the magnetising >> >axis to arrange for two unequal sized bubbles? >> >10) The two asymetrically sized bubbles are more 'unstable' and and oscilate >> >more easily than when the poles are opposite and form equally sized bubbles? >> >> Hmmm, I look at it as one bubble per magnet, but may be I'm not fully >> understanding you. >> >> >11) The bubbles associated with a ring magnet are in fact donut shaped? >> >> I believe so. > > >See my comments, the attached gif and questions above. > > >> >Thanks very much for sharing this. >> >> Your welcome. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a waist of time. I have >> invested more money in this than I care to disclose, not to mention a lot of >> time. I believe it is possible though, and that's why I keep trying. > > >Yes. I would certainly like to put it to sleep at least if nothing better >comes of it. It's been bugging me too for a couple of years! > > >-- >Hi Alan, > > >--------- >Rob Dowse > > > Ok, ready for the next round. Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 15:46:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18599; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:45:28 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:45:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:44:00 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712022344.QAA14121@smtp04.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"UDnIT2.0.2Y4.As9Xq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:52 PM 12/2/97 +0100, redesign@pavilion.co.uk wrote: >AJ Dubla wrote: > >> I have been most successfull standard round magnets of 1.25" diameter. > > >Do you mean rings with holes in the middle? BTW flat disc magnet made from >isotropic material can have all sorts of bizzare pole arrangmants, e.g. a >north pole in the middle surrounded by the south pole all on one face, the >opposite side has no pole at all! Or you can divide up the disc into 4 or 6 or >however many cake segments each with the opposite polarity to it's neighbour. Yes, magnet rings with holes in the center - however, the same process works for 4X6" rectangular magnets also. > >> The coil I used to zap the bubble into place is wrapped around 2"id pvc pipe, >> length is 2" (overkill, but I had it on hand), wire is 18 awg - solid copper >> with plastic insulation (standard radio shack single red spool stuff) about >> 200 turns (seven layers deep by about 30 turns across, again overkill). >> >> The magnet sits centered in the middles of the coil using 2 pvc test caps >> (one fits on on the end of the 2" pvc pipe, and the other (for 1.75"id pipe) >> is glued on top of it inside the coil and acts as a holder for the magnet. >> Once you have all that, it's a zap of about 200 joules once or twice in >> either direction. >> How's that? > > >A solenoid produces a magnetid field normal to it's main axis: it behaves as a >normal bar magnet would, with one pole formed at each open end of the tube >when dc current is passing. If your ring magnet is allready magnetised through >it's thickness I don't understand how you are doing anything to modify it's >field (unless you are simply reversig it). Maybe the magnet can be lodged at >an angle in your rig when it's zapped? Although this would cause the poles to >be offset. > >Or is the solenoid sitting with one open end on the bench top, the other end >pointing to the ceiling with the ring magnet orientated like a car wheel >inside the solenoid? The magnetising field would then be at right angles to >the original field in the magnet (which was through it's thickness)? The coil sits with one end on the bench, and the other end pointing up toward the ceiling. The magnet sits inside the coil with one face down toward the bench and the other face toward the ceiling. It is hard to imagine that this would change the field in the manner like I described, but it works. > >-- > Hi All, > >I hope I'm not getting too tiresome. I want to be clear exactly what's going >on here. We may be able to make some progress.....!! >--------- >Rob Dowse > Progress is a good thing :). Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 16:22:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16834; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:21:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:21:56 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:22:12 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: International UFO Congress - Feb. 1-7, 1998 - Announcments Resent-Message-ID: <"Bny9D3.0.x64.ZOAXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 7th Annual International UFO Congress Convention Film Festival & EBE Awards Announcement ! February 1 thru 7, 1998 - Gold River Resort, Laughlin, Nevada. http://www.padrak.com/ufo/IUFOC_1998.html Almost all speakers are confirmed (as of 11/18/97)! The above IUFOC Website Was Last Updated On: December 2, 1997. Laughlin is about 1 1/2 hours East of Las Vegas, on the West side of the Colorado River separating Nevada and Arizona, and is easily accessible by car, plane, and van and bus shuttles from the Las Vegas Airport and various major Las Vegas hotels. See Also: The Schedule of Events Page The Prices and Rates Page The Transportation Page The Reservations Form Page Rev. 11/18/97. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 16:55:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26238; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:54:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:54:39 -0800 Message-ID: <34849F3E.8BCB9CE6@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 00:53:06 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <199712011903.MAA14858@smtp01.primenet.com> <19971202.101236.3366.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I1oao1.0.RP6.9tAXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tv@juno.com wrote: > I simply repeated the simple experiment with a magnet, a strip of soft > iron, and small > tack nail described in the article on Wesley Gary in 1879 issue of > Harpers magazine. > see my web page on this at: > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 -- Hi Tim, Thanks, I'll try the Gary experiments again now. --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 18:52:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27130; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:52:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:52:11 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:51:47 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Invention may do for sound what laser did for light Resent-Message-ID: <"uG8fc.0.Zd6.ObCXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9712/02/sound.wave.energy/ > Invention may do for sound what laser did for light > > 'It's doing something ... [image] > completely impossible' Lucas uses containers > December 2, 1997 of various shapes to > Web posted at: 9:23 p.m. eliminate shock waves > EST (0223 GMT) > > From Correspondent Jim Hill > > SAN DIEGO (CNN) -- A researcher says he has done > something "completely impossible" by harnessing > the power of sound, and that eventually it will be > available in everything from home appliances to > industrial compressors. > > Tim Lucas says he made a radical discovery while > working at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in > New Mexico that enables him to create more energy > through sound waves than was ever thought > possible. > > "It's not an incremental improvement in an > existing technology," Lucas says, "it's suddenly > doing something which before was completely > impossible." > > Scientists have long known > that sound is composed of [vxtreme] CNN's > pulsing waves of energy, but Jim Hill reports > it was considered useless as > a power source because at high levels sound waves > distort into shock waves. > > An example is the way sound distorts on a stereo > or radio speakers when turned up too loud. > > But Lucas discovered that by sending sound waves > through empty containers of various shapes, the > shock waves were eliminated. > > Clean electric power generators? > > "Once you've done that," he says, "you can add all > the energy, create all the pressure, and deliver > all the power that you want." > > Lucas calls his invention Resonant Macrosonic > Synthesis -- RMS. > > He has used it to power such things as a gas > compressor, but believes there is so much > potential that he compares what he has done with > sound to what the laser has done with light. > > His company, Macrosonix, is working on sound wave > compressors which might one day do everything from > cool refrigerators and air conditioners in the > home to running compressors in factories and on > construction sites. > > The beauty of a sound-wave compressor is that it > would do what a compressor does, but without the > moving parts required in conventional piston > technology. > > Mechanical engineering professor Mark Hamilton, > who has followed Lucas' work, says, "I don't think > the idea struck people that you could use sound > waves to do, say, pumping that could be used on a > commercial scale. And I think that was the > innovative part of the idea here." > > Macrosonix researchers say they also hope to use > sound to create clean electric power generators, > replacing any number of machines with the > technology of an empty cavity. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 19:18:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28884; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:17:29 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:17:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712030315.BAA13377@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:18:52 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: VTAKEY from KeelyNet Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"Q_R7Y1.0.w27.3zCXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A possible Key to the VTA - 7/13/97 During the year of 1993, I received a call from a fellow by the name of Donny Watson. He lived in Lancaster and had called to talk about various free energy devices, particularly Floyd Sweets VTA (vacuum triode amplifier). Donny claimed he had made a device that was producing anomalous amounts of energy, not large quantities, but definitely overunity. This particular unit was a rotary mechanical unit that as I recall was based on collecting back emf. I of course asked to see the device, but Donny was reticent. We met for lunch and on several other occasions, becoming friends in the process. Though I never saw any machine, I did see Donny's work area and he had a lot of parts and some equipment, but out of all the time I knew him, he showed me nothing. After several months of periodic discussion and meetings, we had a falling out and I did not hear from Donny again. At the 1994 ISNE conference in Denver, I was surprised to hear that 'a Donny Watson' would be speaking on the Sweet VTA and his work to duplicate it. Turns out it was the same Donny Watson, we became reacquainted and ended up drinking beer late into the night, swapping all kinds of goodies. During the course of the conference, Donny showed me two magnets, they were both BaFe (barium ferrite) 4" X 6" by 1/2" thick. One was 'programmed', the other was not. Using a piece of magnetic field viewing plastic to view the unprogrammed magnet, I could clearly see the south pole on one face and the north pole on the other face, separated at the middle of the 1/2" magnet width by the Bloch wall. However, in the programmed magnet, the south pole did not stop at the midpoint, but wrapped up onto the face of the north pole section, extending inward from the edge by about 1/4". That is where the Bloch wall HAD MOVED. It was like altering the duty cycle of a square wave, where a normal magnet would be analogous to a South/North relationship of 50:50, the programmed magnet was now something like 70:30. Quite amazing! Additionally, there was a bubble within the top North pole face, looking much like an air bubble in water covered by plastic. When you put another magnet near this bubble, IT MOVED away, just like pressing on a sheet of plastic to move the captive air bubble. Don said the programming did not always take, but that you could just do it again, using the same magnet until it did. Also that some magnets were imperfect, having internal fractures not visible without using the magnetic viewing plastic. The slabs were also sensitive to shock or outside stimulus which would kill the programmed effect and necessitate the magnet being reprogrammed. Although I've never seen any working models of the Sweet device from anyone, this observation of the magnets was the closest I'd come, so Don Watson has my vote of confidence at this point and he is to be commended for figuring out how to produce the effect but also for sharing this information for other researchers. Don was working in downtown Dallas last year for an InterNet service provider. I stopped in to see him a couple of times and we'd have lunch to shoot the breeze. Shortly after that, about 5 months ago, I got an email from him saying he had moved to the Northeast, somewhere near Maine. That was the last time I heard anything from Don. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ New Insights The reason I have written this short paper is because in the last few days, I've been thinking a lot about the VTA and it struck me what must be going on in the programmed slab magnet. The only way you could have a bubble inside of the north face is if that bubble was of a different polarity, i.e. south, with the bubble edge being ANOTHER bloch wall. You must have a difference to be able to measure anything, homogeneity means harmony, no polarity and equates to zero, though there appears to ALWAYS be minor fluctuations since nothing is ever TRULY in balance. I always thought the trick of the VTA was to cause the Bloch wall to vibrate in the presence of a coil of wire. Anytime you have a change of magnetic polarity near a conductor, you have an induced current, when that polarity changes, the current changes and in effect, PUMPS the energy out. Since this artifically created South pole in the form of the moving bubble floating on the North pole face can easily move, it can easily be made to vibrate, possibly over a contained area. If you place a coil of wire around the bubble, creating a constained area, you could push the bubble back and forth in a controlled fashion with very small magnetic impulses. Now, if you place another coil of wire, in such a way that the bubble edge moves back and forth across this coil, then you will induce a changing current that can be extracted. If the coil tapping the energy is bifilar, it would not suffer magnetic repulsions due to back emf. If under load, it would work like a homopolar generator, where the dissipation of produced power for any size load would not increase the energy needed to drive the motor driving the generator. Another key point, I think, is that the bubble must be TUNED to the frequency it will be driven at, 60cps, to get the greatest Q (coupling of energy). Resonance is thus necessary to be able to tap the extra energy. Much like tapping a swing at precisely the right moment, with precisely enough energy to overcome internal resistances, eventually the inertia of the mass (or energy) will reach a point where other forces can be added and tapped. Alan Dubla has recently put up a New Site dedicated to the Sweet VTA. Alan has achieved what appears to be the same magnetic bubble that Don did. In closing, there is one other point I'd like to make, when I asked Donny about the programming of the magnet with the 60cps wave, he said it could be any frequency. Don also said that once a magnet was programmed, you could touch a scope probe to the magnet and you would see a VERY WEAK 60cps wave on the screen. I asked if this could be simply picking up background 60cps from the wall wiring and Don insisted it was not. I did not see this test since we were at the conference and he was just describing it. Perhaps he programmed in another frequency and could see that on the scope, maybe even put the magnet and scope in a Faraday cage. Lots of room for experiment here. A correlation to this, when the late Dr. Andrija Puharich was in Dallas a few years ago, some of our group had the opportunity to hang out with him for the week he was here. A totally fascinating man... He had invented what is called the TESLAR watch, which was a thick digital watch containing a small Faraday cage surrounding a scalar oscillator. The idea being that scalar waves reflect as pure electric waves (Hoopers' Motional field) which have no magnetic field (thus won't be inductively sapped by encountering metal) and which have no electrostatic field (won't be sapped by capacitive coupling). The oscillator was tuned to the 7.8cps Schumann peak and thus was to protect the users from ELF signals by saturating the body with the 7.8cps, keyed to the Earth frequency where the ELF would be dissipated by resonance. It is very difficult to measure ELF signals electronically and thrice multiplied by them being scalar. When someone asked Puharich how could you measure the output of the TESLAR watch to know it was working, he said it took complex equipment to do it and there was no simple way he knew of. At that, a fellow in the audience said he had been able to measure the TESLAR output by placing a penny on the watch face, then touching a scope probe to the penny. This would provide a signal of the ELF for viewing on the scope. Puharich was startled by this comment and promised to check into it. There might be a way to tap scalar energy using this means, but I think it was leakage into the driving circuit or there was a break in the Faraday cage. Who knows... As always, your comments or insights are solicited and appreciated. KeelyNet will soon have a page for feedback and comments that will share these responses with everyone. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 20:21:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07625; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:20:22 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:20:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:21:26 -0600 (CST) From: "Frank C. Earl" X-Sender: fearl@localhost To: Freenergy Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA In-Reply-To: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8nM6D.0.xs1.ytDXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Alan Dubla wrote: > The light glowy green area on the magnet > face is the bloch wall, the area where N and S meet...this is the bubble. > In the same magnet before I zapped it, the bloch wall was parallel with the > face of the magnet, and only viewable from the side...I modified the field > by flipping it 90 degrees...now, the poles are flipped on their sides, > and the bubble is visible on the face. Ok, we're already seeing the "bubbles" in the magnets with what you've done to this point. I think the "AC" injection may not be needed to reproduce the VTA. It depends on what I'm about ready to propose... > If you bring another magnet, or electromagnet near it, (especially with > the field at 90 degess) the bubble will move easily out of the way, > and then return to its original position when you remove the foreign > field. This is what Don Watson was talking about. Ok, how intense a magnetic field does it take to move the bubble and how intense is the field of the bubble itself? If the bubble is fairly strong and the field intensity needed to toss the alignment of domains to it's original state is relatively weak (compared to the bubble) then we already have in hand the crucial secret to Sweet's VTA- the production of the bubbles. Alan, I suggest that you look into what sort of field strengths the bubbles posess and how intense a field it takes to move the bubble. If they are the same level, it may be that the "injection" of AC into the magnet is needed to destabilize the domain map further without weakening the field strength of the bubble so that it takes less field strength to flip it than it actually possesses. Frank Earl- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 20:36:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09577; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:34:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:34:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:35:15 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Culsu.0.XL2.S5EXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Dowse wrote: > > AJ Dubla wrote: > > > > >Thanks very much for sharing this. > > > > Your welcome. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a waist of time. I have > > invested more money in this than I care to disclose, not to mention a lot of > > time. I believe it is possible though, and that's why I keep trying. > > > Yes. I would certainly like to put it to sleep at least if nothing better > comes of it. It's been bugging me too for a couple of years! Several things about Sweets VTA has been bugging me as well. Sweet produced a video tape demonstrating the VTA in operation. There are a few things in that video tape that deserve close attention. Most worrisome is the fact that the VTA appears to deliver full power to its load the instant the signal generator is powered on. The signal generator in question is an old Hewlett Packard vacuum tube oscillator. These do not deliver any output signal for several seconds after being powered on. Its clear from the video tape that the oscillator was powered off for quite some time, yet the demonstration shows the load getting full power the instant the switch is turned on, long before the oscillator delivers any output. Temporal anomaly, ground loop, or simple fraud? As the best objective evidence that the VTA actually worked, I think that the video tape produced by Sweet deserves much more attention that it has received to date. The oscillator is only one significant question left by the videotape. There are a good number of other nagging questions left by the long history of Sweet's VTA. I'm afraid that the VTA has become another legendary invention that no total lack of hard evidence will ever put to rest. Perhaps 50 years from now, people will refer to the VTA as the working OU device that 'got away', much like any number of claimed OU devices from the past. Then again, maybe I'm just trying to suppress the truth? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 20:45:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24598; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:44:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:44:42 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:44:23 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"XzgU.0.A06.rEEXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: >Then again, maybe I'm just trying to suppress the truth? Tell me, Bob, do you like to dress in black? r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 20:56:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27966; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:55:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:55:40 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:55:16 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pv5fM2.0.lq6.9PEXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, ralph muha wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > >Then again, maybe I'm just trying to suppress the truth? > > Tell me, Bob, do you like to dress in black? > > r > > Yes, and he likes to sing "I fell into a burnin' rang of fahr". Jeez, I'm in a weird mood tonite! :-) Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 21:40:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16861; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:40:00 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:40:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34850CE0.5D0B@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:40:16 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Insight on the Gary Neutral Line References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HFr3B1.0.L74.k2FXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! John Bedini has been doing some interesting experiments with the Gary Motor which claims to use the neutral line....he sent some diagrams that might be useful if you are interested in this; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/garyjohn.htm seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 22:05:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08636; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:05:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:05:06 -0800 From: NLSilliman@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:04:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971203010430_-1406320652@mrin40.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: bizarre hi-tech company Resent-Message-ID: <"8km8s1.0.o62.HQFXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim Shaffer, Jr wrote on 97-12-02 15:47:20 EST > Check out http://www.unitelnw.com > 3) a spacecraft capable of macroscopic quantum tunnerling(!) > But if they are not making it up, everybody else in the ZPE field > is going to be out of a job - they've covered everything you could > ever hope to do. I looked at their stuff. All you guys in the ZPE field can breath again. Your jobs are not at rick ( at least not from these people). All of their message is in the future tense. That means to me that they are planning ahead. Also that means that they are talking about vapor-ware. They admit that even they have not yet build any proof-of-concept devices. They talk about building a 'flat' 5-inch in diameter piece to test their hull concept (the hull would need to be, if actually made, 20 meters in diameter, and curved). All of their work hinges on the theory of quantum mechanics, the same theory that has given us all the free electricity that we need. (Any of you remember back to the 50s when the physicists testifing before congress, asking for money to build a large nuclear fusion machine, said that in five years elecricity would be so cheap that there would be no need to meter it?) The classic example of vapor-ware. Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 22:47:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA24405; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:47:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:47:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34851CB4.5763@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 00:47:48 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: bizarre hi-tech company References: <971203010430_-1406320652@mrin40.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ac6C22.0.Ez5.12GXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Norm Silliman wrote saying the UNITEL group was probably vaporware at this point. I think he might be correct because if you read their description of the phase conjugate healing device, it sounds like a company that WAS based out of Florida who were promoting all kinds of neat things back a few years ago. I can't recall the name of that company but they claimed to be able to derive the signature of any molecule on an atom by atom basis. Once this was done, they said they could remove or add any atom to change the properties of the molecule....they also claimed all kinds of futuristic weapons and that they were working with some government agencies to realize this....as far as I know, nothing came of that either. I sent an email to their office asking if this was the next incarnation of that earlier company but have received no reply to date.... The early PopSci and PopMech magazines with all their futuristic covers and 'projections' used to get me wired up too, but as life goes on, I learned not to have a lot of confidence in claims....interesting to read but can we see it work? -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 23:48:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00446; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:47:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:47:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3484DD41.4DF6@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:17:05 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <199712022344.QAA14120@smtp04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ro28L3.0.s6.PwGXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AJ Dubla wrote: > > At 10:01 PM 12/2/97 +0100, redesign@pavilion.co.uk wrote: > >AJ Dubla wrote: > > > > > > Ok, ready for the next round. > > Alan Dubla ok with you so far, do you flip the fields with a low current coil through the centre and harvest a high current through a pancake coil, ring coil on the flat faces of the ring,is this the idea Robbie -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive EXPERIMENTAL RESEARCH From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 01:23:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09796; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:23:22 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:23:22 -0800 (PST) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:22:00 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34891b61.23294717@mail.eisa.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"esEIq2.0.zO2.8KIXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:41:30 -0500, Byrun Fox wrote: >Re; the following: > >I respectfully suggest that sincerity is not a good test of truth. > The only good test of truth, is try it yourself. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 10:15:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24334; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:14:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:14:49 -0800 Message-ID: <348592FA.A6AB399D@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 18:12:26 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Alan Dubla Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <199712022344.QAA14121@smtp04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ncIVy.0.zx5.M6QXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Allan, Thanks for your replies. It does seem like a perfectly ordinary process you have used. There must be something you are doing but have not noticed it's significants...? AJ Dubla wrote: > The coil sits with one end on the bench, and the other end pointing up > toward the ceiling. The magnet sits inside the coil with one face down > toward the bench and the other face toward the ceiling. It is hard to > imagine that this would change the field in the manner like I described, but > it works. The field lines at each end of the coil would spread, following something like the surface of a staight expnonetial horn. This is good I think because it would push the bloch walls arround forming different sized lobes. Do you agree that these lobes ARE the bubbles, two per magnet? So maybe we need to look at a squat coil, offset from the magnet, then possibly reduced power would be needed due to the greater angle and curvature the lines would be at? Then bang some ac in there.....!!!!! Also their may be some merit in de-magnetising the material say with mains ac before zaping it? Magnets can easily loose their factory fitted fields...Greg's currently having some bother in this department. -- --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 12:31:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06477; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:30:51 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:30:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:29:45 +1100 Message-Id: <199712032029.HAA05132@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re:bizarre company Resent-Message-ID: <"QezSY.0.5b1.r5SXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >All of their message is in the future tense. That means to me that >they are planning ahead. Also that means that they are talking >about vapor-ware. > And then there was the mention of scalar "beams". A bit of a misnomer. Perhpas they mean destructive interferrence of two EM waves, but these cannot zero-sum as described. They only way is by phase retardation, upon a single vector, as implied by Bearden, and then the SEP only appears on target. >They talk about building a 'flat' 5-inch >in diameter piece to test their hull concept (the hull would need to be, >if actually made, 20 meters in diameter, and curved). > IMO curvature deserves alot more consideration. Electrons always migrate to the outside of a curved surface. All we need is a way to return them to the inside again, i.e. defy equilibrium, and the cycle will repeat. You never see straight lines in living things. They use curves, not only for structural integrity, but to inwardly bias ambient energy. For example, we know that bones, being at the center of the adjacent tissue mass, are gravitational sensors. The key is, when electrons move out, what moves in ... and how can this be converted to more electrons? It relates to inducing intermittent transparency of mass through resonance. A pump for virtual particles. Let's say you have a sphere, like the Earth. You ping it at twice its resonant frequency. The center becomes a point of interferrence. Paired particles decouple. Spin and gravity arise as compensation. Negative charge builds on the surface. There you install an antenna which is tuned one octave down. I suppose no one ever wondered why streams of electrons are ripped from the Earth during a lighting storm? Tesla did. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 14:43:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14567; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:42:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:42:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:45:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712032245.PAA04447@smtp02.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"oLh1q2.0.UZ3.Q1UXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rob, At 06:12 PM 12/3/97 +0100, redesign@pavilion.co.uk wrote: >Hi Allan, > >Thanks for your replies. It does seem like a perfectly ordinary process you >have used. There must be something you are doing but have not noticed it's significants...? Na, I don't think I'm missing anything in this process. If you want, I can try to make an avi for you to see the whole process. > >AJ Dubla wrote: > >> The coil sits with one end on the bench, and the other end pointing up >> toward the ceiling. The magnet sits inside the coil with one face down >> toward the bench and the other face toward the ceiling. It is hard to >> imagine that this would change the field in the manner like I described, but >> it works. > >The field lines at each end of the coil would spread, following something like >the surface of a staight expnonetial horn. This is good I think because it >would push the bloch walls arround forming different sized lobes. Do you agree >that these lobes ARE the bubbles, two per magnet? Ok, I can go with that. One bubble on the top face, the other bubble on the bottom face. I think of them as being one though, because they both move together. > >So maybe we need to look at a squat coil, offset from the magnet, then >possibly reduced power would be needed due to the greater angle and curvature >the lines would be at? > >Then bang some ac in there.....!!!!! Sounds like you should start experimenting with it Rob! It would be refreshing to hear the results of your ideas. > >Also their may be some merit in de-magnetising the material say with mains ac >before zaping it? Magnets can easily loose their factory fitted >fields...Greg's currently having some bother in this department. That's just it, you can not fully demagnetize the ceramic magnets with anything other than heating to the currie point. Any attempts to demagnetize the magnet with another magnetic field will produce bubbles, strange patterns, pole reversal, etc. > > >-- > >--------- >Rob Dowse > > > The Watson paper will help out when I get it typed up. Until next time, Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 15:06:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22146; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:05:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:05:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199712032259.UAA28243@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:01:04 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Is HELL exothermic ? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"cXg-p2.0.wP5.7NUXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From a colleague. (I am not sure if you think this is funny, but certainly worth figuring out.) A true story. A thermodynamics professor had written a take home exam for his graduate students. It had one question: Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with a proof. Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however wrote the following: First, we postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. #1 So, if hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose. #2 Of course, if hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Therese Banyan during Freshman year, "that it will be a cold night in hell before I sleep with you", and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true, and hell is exothermic. The student got the only A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- So, hell's not gonna be that HOT, when we finally arrive there ! ;-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 15:13:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23390; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:13:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:13:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 23:11:35 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SZlL43.0.Ij5.DUUXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Several things about Sweets VTA has been bugging me as well.The signal > generator in question is an old Hewlett Packard vacuum tube oscillator. > These do not deliver any output signal for several seconds after being > powered on. > > Its clear from the video tape that the oscillator was powered off for > quite some time, yet the demonstration shows the load getting full power > the instant the switch is turned on, long before the oscillator delivers > any output. > > Temporal anomaly, ground loop, or simple fraud? I wonder if there is any posibility of cold cathode emmission due to a high electric field gradient? The heater circuit for the tubes in the H.P. oscillator would have to have been tampered with and posibly other modifications, sustitute a cold cathode rectfier based oscilator or whatever. That would start up pretty quick (leave the rest as a red-herring)? I haven't seen the video. I don't trust them as they *prove* nothing. In a sense I'd trust a claim more without one! > As the best objective evidence that the VTA actually worked, I think > that the video tape produced by Sweet deserves much more attention that > it has received to date. > > The oscillator is only one significant question left by the videotape. > There are a good number of other nagging questions left by the long > history of Sweet's VTA. Care to discuss them here? -- --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 15:29:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09837; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:28:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:28:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971203172817.00697684@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:28:17 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA In-Reply-To: <199712032245.PAA04447@smtp02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Tes45.0.aP2.BiUXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 15:45 12/3/97 -0700, Someone wrote: >>Also their may be some merit in de-magnetising the material say with mains ac >>before zaping it? Magnets can easily loose their factory fitted >>fields...Greg's currently having some bother in this department. In order to obtain consistent results. The field strength applied to the material must be enough to cause complete saturation. If residual magnetism is a concern, why not place the material in the coil so it aids rather than opposes the field induced by the magnetizer? It's easier than degaussing. Commerical magnets that need to be alike in their characteristics, are subjected to a weak AC field _after_ they have been magnetized to equalize them. I'm wondering if the bubbles on the pole faces are the result of incomplete magnetization. Best Regards, Jack ---------------------------------------------------------- mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 15:56:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14317; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:55:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:55:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:54:17 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA In-Reply-To: <199712032245.PAA04447@smtp02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"McA2q.0.RV3.j5VXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -=snip=- ref: ac/dc vs soft/ceramic -=snip=- >>>So maybe we need to look at a squat coil, offset from the magnet, then >>>possibly reduced power would be needed due to the greater angle and curvature >>>the lines would be at? >>> >>>Then bang some ac in there.....!!!!! >> AJ Dubla wrote: >>Sounds like you should start experimenting with it Rob! It would be >>refreshing to hear the results of your ideas. >> I thought this thread started out with DC capacitors 'zapping the wound container'? IS IT better to go AC (per-group concenses now?).. Also early this year (I think maybe april or so, someone gave a great way to make foot long CAPS (12" x 20' or so) metal roll sandwiched in between Black Construction Plastic and inserted in PVC Pipe. I forgot what the dielectric electrolyte was. (for THIS working Design). Anyone remember? Wax (assume) would crack, mineral/veg oil?? >> >>> >>>Also their may be some merit in de-magnetising the material say with mains ac >>>before zaping it? Magnets can easily loose their factory fitted >>>fields...Greg's currently having some bother in this department. >> >>That's just it, you can not fully demagnetize the ceramic magnets with >>anything other than heating to the currie point. Any attempts to >>demagnetize the magnet with another magnetic field will produce bubbles, >>strange patterns, pole reversal, etc. >> For maximum 'floating' bubble, are you still thinking iron to start, or is the ceramic magnets unerasabilty the way to go? Thanks Best to you & yours -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 16:03:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04495; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:02:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:02:30 -0800 Message-ID: <34861D67.4BC2@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:03:03 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vQT9C2.0.661.JCVXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zack Widup wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, ralph muha wrote: > > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > >Then again, maybe I'm just trying to suppress the truth? > > > > Tell me, Bob, do you like to dress in black? > > > > r > > > > > > Yes, and he likes to sing "I fell into a burnin' rang of fahr". > > Jeez, I'm in a weird mood tonite! :-) > > Zack Hey, lots of people have to wear a uniform to work. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 16:05:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05170; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:04:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:04:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:13:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712040013.RAA23817@smtp02.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"kTeUX1.0.aG1.WEVXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jack, >At 15:45 12/3/97 -0700, Someone wrote: >>>Also their may be some merit in de-magnetising the material say with mains ac >>>before zaping it? Magnets can easily loose their factory fitted >>>fields...Greg's currently having some bother in this department. > > >At 05:28 PM 12/3/97 -0600, Jack DeMule wrote: >In order to obtain consistent results. The field strength >applied to the material must be enough to cause complete >saturation. If residual magnetism is a concern, why not >place the material in the coil so it aids rather than >opposes the field induced by the magnetizer? It's easier >than degaussing. > >Commerical magnets that need to be alike in their characteristics, >are subjected to a weak AC field _after_ they have been magnetized >to equalize them. > >I'm wondering if the bubbles on the pole faces are the result >of incomplete magnetization. That's it exactly. Different patterns can be achieved using different levels of demagnetization. Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 16:52:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16847; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:52:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:52:33 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19971204064525.28578ebe@pop.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: ksmith@pop.ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:57:41 -1200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"iVFTz1.0.874.FxVXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve wrote > >I thought this thread started out with DC capacitors 'zapping the wound >container'? IS IT better to go AC (per-group concenses now?).. >Also early this year (I think maybe april or so, someone gave a great way >to make foot long CAPS (12" x 20' or so) metal roll sandwiched in between >Black Construction Plastic and inserted in PVC Pipe. I forgot what the >dielectric electrolyte was. (for THIS working Design). Anyone remember? >Wax (assume) would crack, mineral/veg oil?? Hi All, check out a TESLA coil site for details on AC caps. I have made a few in my time. However BLACK plastic does not work at all. The black is carbon and that reduces the voltage capacity to virtually zero. Good quality CLEAR plastic sheet and pure mineral oil is the method. Below is a reprint of the method I used : This was letter from Gary Weaver to me on building a 30,000V 0.08 Mfd Tesla AC cap. I built two at the beginning of the year and they have been absolutely bullet proof. There are a couple of good freeware software packages that can be used to calculate material dimensions required for a given capacitance. I have copies if anyone wants them. (use direct email). Hope this helps. BTW Gary talks about vacuum extraction. This helps but a wait of 2 weeks to purge the air works also. Also Aluminium flashing isn't available here - I used commercial aluminium cooking foil - no problems, but a little fragile to handle during the rolling... My New Capacitors. I spent several weeks thinking about this before I finally decided to build it. All of the capacitor plans I have seen look hard to build that why I have refused to build one. I came up with my own design that seem easy to build. Also with other plans I have seen you can not use the new capacitor for several months until all the air has had a chance to escape. With my design you do not have to wait to use the new capacitor. I bought a roll of .010 aluminum flashing 10" wide at the lumber yard. I cut the cap plates 9' long with a 12" long tab that is 1.5" wide. The total length with the tab is 10'. I used a paper punch to make a hole in the tab so I could bolt is down. I folded the tabs over 90 degrees so it will stick out on the side of the plate and stick out the end of the caps after it is rolled up. I bought a roll of .006 mill clear polyethylene at the lumber yard. The roll was 10' by 100'. I cut it into strips 14" wide by 222" long by rolling the plastic around a pipe first then cutting around the pipe with a razor knife. I laided the strips out on the carpet floor in the house. I put 9 layers of poly in a stack. Then I laid the aluminum plate on the stack of poly and folded the poly over the top of the aluminum plate. Now there is 9 layers of .006 poly on both sides of the plate. Its made like a sandwitch with poly on both sides and the aluminum plate in the middle. The poly hangs over each side of the plate 2" and hangs over the tab end 3". I made 2 poly and aluminum sandwitches and placed one on top of the other making sure that one tab sticks out on the left side and the other tab sticks out on the right side. The tabs are on the open end of the poly not the end where the poly folds around the plate. I bought a piece of 1" PVC pipe to use as a center for rolling the plates up tight. The 1" pipe measures 1.25" outside diameter. I cut a piece of 1" pipe 15" long for the center. I placed the 1" pipe on the end of the poly that folds around the plates not the tab end of the plate and started rolling. I rolled it up as tight as I could. The sheet of poly tried to get out of line a little on both sides but with a 2" hang over this is not a problem. I put a piece of masking tape around the rolled cap to hold it in place until I could insert it into the 6" PVC pipe. After rolling both plates together there are 18 layers of .006 mil polyethylene between each plate. d=.108 A=1080 K=2 C=.00896 uf 40,000 volt rating. Formula C=[(.224 times K times A) divided by d] times 2. I cut a piece of 6" PVC pipe 16" long and slid the rolled capacitor into the pipe. It was a very tight fit. I had to spin the capacitor in the direction of the roll after I removed the tape to get it to go into the pipe all the way. I drilled a # 7 hole in the PVC end caps and tapped the plastic for 1/4" by 20 threads. I made 2 threaded studs 2" long from 1/4" threaded rod and screwed the stud into the threaded hole of the end cap. Then I put a 1/4" hex nut on each end of the stud and tightened it against the plastic end caps. I put a small amount of lock tight on the threaded rod and nuts to hold them in place. I used the hot melt glue gun to seal around the hex nuts where they touch the end caps. I drill and tap a 1/8" NPT pipe thread in only one end cap. I made sure there was 1/2" of thread sticking out on the outside of the cap for wire connections and a nut. Next is put the aluminum tabs from cap on the 1/4" threaded rods and put on a lock washer and a nut to hold it in place. Then I glued the end caps to the 6" PVC pipe with lots of glue and used a rubber hammer to make sure they were on all the way. While the glue was drying on the PVC I drove to the power company and bought 5 gallons of transformer oil for $2.00 a gallon. When I returned home about an hour later I connected the vacuum pump to the 1/8" pipe threads on the end cap of the capacitor and pumped a vacuum. The vacuum guage was reading 30. I held the vacuum for a few minutes then closed the valve to the pump and opened the valve to the container of oil and back filled the capacitor. It took a few minutes for the cap to fill with oil. Then I removed the vacuum hose and plugged the hole with a socket set screw pipe plug. Construction time and cost of 1 rolled capacitors .008 uf. 2 aluminum plates 25 minutes $6.00. 18 polyethylene sheet 14" by 222" 45 minutes $9.20. 2 PVC end caps 6" dia drill and tap. 5 min $20.46. 1 PVC pipe 6" dia by 16" 5 min $3.18. Misc, nuts, washer, stud, pipe plug. 5 min $1.00. 1 gallon of transformer oil 10 minutes $2.00. 1 PVC pipe 1" dia by 15" long 2 min $0.30. TOTAL construction time = 87 min each cap $42.14 each cap. I spent more time driving around town buying the materials than I did building the capacitors. I probably spent 5 or 6 hours driving around town getting the stuff together to make these capacitors. After I had finished both capacitors I took them both to Fox Brothers electric motor repair to have them tested. They both tested .008 uf just exactly as I had calculated they should be. There meter did not read 4 places. The actual value of the finished cap could be .0080 to .0089. Then I took the capacitors both to Desco an electrical contractor supply company so I could use there meter to test it again. Again the meter read .008 uf. There meter did not read 4 places either. I returned home and didn't waste any time removing the glass plate capacitor from the TC and put on 1 of the new poly caps. It has been about 2 hours sence I finished them both. The output of the secondary was 13" with the glass plate capacitor and now its 32" with one rolled capacitor. With 2 rolled capacitors in parallel the output is 44". Gary Weaver Ken Smith (ksmith@ihug.co.nz) http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ksmith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 17:13:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25057; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:13:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:13:04 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:12:49 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: AntiGravity News - Information and TOCs Resent-Message-ID: <"hZTaN1.0.E76.PEWXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ANTIGRAVITY NEWS P.O. Box 655 Marietta, GA 30061-655 Editor-in-Chief: James Cox Email: antigravnews@rocketmail.com TEL: 770-218-9693 URL: http://www.padrak.com/agn/ Subscription Rates: USA: $36.00/yr Mexico: $42.00/yr Canada: $42.00/yr Other: $48.00/yr ANTIGRAVITY NEWS - Past Issues Table of Contents Vol. 1, No. 1 - July-August 1997 (32 pp) Editorial 2 Summary of Superconductor Gravity Shield Experiments 6 X PRIZE ($10 Million Prize) 10 AG In the News and On the Internet 13 Superconductor Supplies 13 Laboratory Report 13 AGN to Take On the X-Prize 13 Definition of Terms 13 Vertical Thrust of a Superconductor Gravity Shield 15 Table Summary of Superconductor Gravity Shield Experiments 16-17 Podkletnov-1, Podkletnov-2, Schnurer, Evans, Rounds, Unnikrighran, Sheggs, Monteverde, Ning Li (A&B), Cox (A&B) Other Anomalous Weightloss Devices 18 Calendar of Events 18 Recommended Books 19 Future Topics to be Covered in AGN 20 Types of Antigravity 23 The Personal Aerogravity Lift Unit 24 Antigravity Patents of Interest 25 0 486 243 A2 - Haruo Yamashita - May 20, 1992 4,905,319 - Klaus Schroder - Feb. 27, 1990 5,340,792 - R. Ovshinsky & Rosa young - August 23, 1994 Biography of Jim Cox 30 Gravity Generator, Available Technology (Univ. of S. Carolina) 31 Vol. 1, No. 2 - September-October 1997 (51 pp) Editorial Summary of Anomalous Weightless Experiments/Introduction 2 Fred Alzofon, Agnew Bahnson (2,958,790 - Nov. 1, 1960), James York, T. T. Brown R. F. Stengel, Alfred Bielek (Edward Cameron), Charles Brush, Paul Nakroshis, Otis Carr, Dan Davidson, Bruce dePalma, Edward Farrow, Robert Forward, David Hammel, Erich Halik, James Hartman, Yamashita Haruo, William Hooper, John Hutchison, John Keely, Don Kelly, Kowsky and Frost, Robert Lazar, and Ning Li List of Antigravity Inventors (A thru L) - Part 1 3 Definition of Terms 11 Other Sources of Information 20 Joel Fisher Confirms Hooper Gravity Theory 25 X-Prize Gravity Shielded Vehicle Trade Study - Part 1 32 Update on Superconductor Gravity Shield Experiments 36 NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Conference Report 37 The Casimir Space Drive 37 Six Experiments in Gravity Shielding 38 Graneau's Bizzare Railgun Experiment 41 Antigravity/Space Drives in Recent Literature 42 Electromagnetic Energy Propulsion Engine (5,197,279) 43 Gravitation by Charles Brush (1929) 46 Vol. 1, No. 3 - November-December 1997 Coming Soon! Ho Ho Ho... (Stay Light!) PB. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 17:26:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24999; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:26:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:26:33 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34891b61.23294717@mail.eisa.net.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:25:33 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"3p4Uz3.0.V66.7RWXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 4:22 AM -0500 12/3/97, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:41:30 -0500, Byrun Fox wrote: > >>Re; the following: >> >>I respectfully suggest that sincerity is not a good test of truth. >> > >The only good test of truth, is try it yourself. So, can we build a SCYBOLT and try it ourselves? No, the only thing we can do is give Cagle our hard-earned $$$ and pray that he delivers our personal fusion reactors before the big coronal mass ejection triggers the magnetic pole reversal that will be the beginning of the end of civilization as we know it... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 17:46:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29566; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:45:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:45:59 -0800 Message-ID: <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 20:46:58 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y7KzZ.0.tD7.MjWXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Dowse wrote: > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > Its clear from the video tape that the oscillator was powered off for > > quite some time, yet the demonstration shows the load getting full power > > the instant the switch is turned on, long before the oscillator delivers > > any output. > > > > Temporal anomaly, ground loop, or simple fraud? > > I wonder if there is any posibility of cold cathode emmission due to a high > electric field gradient? The heater circuit for the tubes in the H.P. > oscillator would have to have been tampered with and posibly other > modifications, sustitute a cold cathode rectfier based oscilator or whatever. > That would start up pretty quick (leave the rest as a red-herring)? I haven't > seen the video. I don't trust them as they *prove* nothing. In a sense I'd > trust a claim more without one! There is some possibility of this, but... The exact model of oscillator (HP 604??) was tested independantly, and took ovre 20 seconds to deliver any output from room temprature. I understand that the power supply circuits use vacuum tube rectifiers, so the modifications would be quite extensive. I think that possibility of such modifications VERY improbable in this case. > > As the best objective evidence that the VTA actually worked, I think > > that the video tape produced by Sweet deserves much more attention that > > it has received to date. > > > > The oscillator is only one significant question left by the videotape. > > There are a good number of other nagging questions left by the long > > history of Sweet's VTA. > > Care to discuss them here? Of course, but I must warn the readers of my wild, heretical opinions here! Concider Sweets discussion of the fields of the magnets, as he demonstrates with several small magnets held against a broken color TV set, displaying only a white raster. The magnets magnetize the shadow mask, and cause an impressive display of colors that might tell us something about the magnetization of the shadow mask, but little or nothing about the actual fields of the magnets themselves, which is how Sweet presents the display. At the conclusion of this demonstration, Sweet makes a statement to the effect that 'and this is all you need to know' (paraphrased). Next point, the experimental setup itself. Tables are strewn with jumper clips and wires running in every direction, making it impossible to say what is connected to what, and how. We must accept Sweets description of the connections on faith alone. This is a clear danger sign. The experimental setup is so cluttered, that if a real effect is at work, its impossible to say what role the mess of wiring might be playing. This is no way to conduct a simple experiment, much less document the operation of an invention. If he did find a real effect, it would be nearly impossible to reproduce such a rats nest of jumper clips and such, much less check and recheck the circuitry for sneek paths and ground loops. Clearly very bad science at best. Aside from the video tape, lets remember Sweets many and varied descriptions of the theory of operation, often self-contradictory, including a statement to the effect that there was NO special 'programming' process applied to the magnets at all. There is also the claim that he was served with legal papers to cease and desist from discussing his invention. This claim has been disproven, apparently an instance of deception on Sweets part. Add these things together, and look at the ballance of the evidence, and the history of over unity device claims. Where do we stand? The chance that any real anomalous effect was produced by the VTA becomes vanishingly small. Even if such an effect were present, its clear from the experimental methods used that Sweet would not have been able to seperate such an effect from experimental error. As to the document from Keelynet on the magnetic 'bubble' moving in response to an external magnetic field is completely conventional, and totally fails to address the simple fact that an inductive pickup coil would still be under unity for all the well proven conventional reasons. And bifilar coils are not inductive, so this does not get around the issue at all, its pure speculation at best, and not supported by experimental evidence showing bifilar coils being an exception to the conservation laws. This appears to be nothing more than food for the true beleivers searching for justification of Sweets claims. The strongest remaining evidence is purely anecdotal at best. Why should we assume that the VTA is any different so many baseless claims. The VTA has become a legend built on the human desire to beleive, not experimental evidence. Lets look at the ballance sheet: There has never been any objective review or testing of a working VTA. There is no clear theory of operation, but a series of self contradictory explainations, an ever changing story. The video tape evidence should raise far more doubt than support for Sweet's claims. Sweet failed to display the level of technical acumen needed to seperate experimental error from anomalous effect. There have been no sucessful verification of Sweets claims. In summary, I can find no evidence at all to support the idea that the VTA ever worked as claimed. There is evidence of misinformation, and even outright deception on Sweet's part. We have seen the birth of a legend here, supported only by the human desire to beleive that it worked, if only we could discover how. I suppose that this is only natural. Humans are not by nature objective beings, and I think its important to realize this. Its taken hundreds, even thousands of years to learn the many ways we as humans deceive ourselves. We only need the scientific method to protect ourselves from our skills of self deception. None of these safeguards were present in the history of the VTA, and so we must accept that the most probable explaination is not modifications of the oscillator, but just another all-too-common case of self deception without the safeguards of proper scientific methods. Please understand that I have no axe to grind, and no 'hidden agenda' here. I repect those who have invested their time and money researching the VTA or other devices. I only hope that those who have made these investments will publish their results so that those who follow (and many will, the legend of the VTA is here to stay, it will not fade away like the MRA only because we cannot test the VTA and prove what it did, or did not do as was the case with the MRA) will be that much better prepared. There is nothing I'd like more than to be proven wrong about the VTA, so give it your best shot, but I'm betting with the odds on this one. Enjoy the quest! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 11:15:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07873; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:15:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:15:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:13:15 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TqmJw3.0.vw1._4mXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > Please understand that I have no axe to grind, and no 'hidden agenda' > here. I repect those who have invested their time and money researching > the VTA or other devices. I only hope that those who have made these > investments will publish their results so that those who follow (and > many will, the legend of the VTA is here to stay, it will not fade away > like the MRA only because we cannot test the VTA and prove what it did, > or did not do as was the case with the MRA) will be that much better > prepared. > > There is nothing I'd like more than to be proven wrong about the VTA, so > give it your best shot, but I'm betting with the odds on this one. > > Enjoy the quest! -- Hi Bob, Alan and all, Thank you very much for your posting Bob. I go along with your analysis and your aproach and take it you have weighed the evidence fairly as most of your info is new to me. I was begining to think that the VTA magnetic bubbles are not too special, your summary of the evidence seems to support that. Some one mentioned magnetic bubble memory technology (which I think faded out?). However I would still like to investigate threshold or incomplete magnetising of ceramics just for curiosity. You never know, it could come in handy somewhere else! Thank you Alan for your efforts and for telling us about your research, I don't think I'll be pestering you on this one too often in the future. (Unless.......!) Now. The MRA? What's the low down on that one? (So as not to waste time experimenting on old ground). At this rate my (long) list of possible projects will be exhasted pretty soon!!! --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 12:25:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03243; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:25:12 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:25:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Conversation <199712011613_MC2-2A4C-FA17@compuserve.com> with last message Priority: Normal To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: doc shock Subject: remove Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 02:53:21 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tQRD2.0.So.Z6nXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: please remove me from the mailing list thanks From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 13:22:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA32247; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:21:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:21:53 -0800 From: SHUCKIE2@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:21:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971204162113_1423535075@mrin39.mx> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: remove Resent-Message-ID: <"wuckh.0.kt7.lxnXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Remove me as well. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 14:43:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23826; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:43:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:43:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:42:33 +1100 Message-Id: <199712042242.JAA02225@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"R4Ta93.0.9q5.o7pXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >There have been no sucessful verification of Sweets claims. > I couldn't locate the paper in my files, but I remember Bearden's endorsement and collaboration in some way, having presumeably seen the device operate successfully. The effect was validated, in terms of his theories (or vice versa), and he gave it the name VTA. We can believe it or not. I have known several FE inventors personally, and they were all more intuitive than scientific. Maybe eccentric would be a better word. One received the idea for his design, spontaneously, after a serious accident. The bottom line is you don't commit alot of time and personal finances to something you don't believe in. If there is any fraud, I would say it originates as self-fraud, but it is highly unlikely every reported instance of OU falls into this category. Bystanders can get hurt in any sport. To avoid the myopia of "pure" science, perhaps it would be more productive to look for points in common between the most plausible designs on record, instead of picking each one apart individually, mostly on guesswork, and then cranking up the next "golden oldie". Eventually something will gel. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 14:49:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23594; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:43:37 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:43:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:42:30 +1100 Message-Id: <199712042242.JAA02223@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"ZYHZv.0.Zm5.M8pXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >If residual magnetism is a concern, why not >place the material in the coil so it aids rather than >opposes the field induced by the magnetizer? It's easier >than degaussing. > Wasn't this Coler's approach? Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 15:23:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29459; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:22:32 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:22:32 -0800 (PST) From: "Richard Weaver" To: Subject: REMOVE Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:19:15 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd010b$09ac5980$d9045ad1@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD00D8.BF11E980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"kdh56.0.4C7.mipXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD00D8.BF11E980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable REMOVE Please remeove me from this list Thankyou ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD00D8.BF11E980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
REMOVE
 
 
 
Please remeove me from this = list
 
 
Thankyou
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD00D8.BF11E980-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 17:05:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15378; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:02:21 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:02:21 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:00:54 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"A0UKg2.0.Am3.OArXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:13 PM -0500 12/4/97, Robert Dowse wrote: >your summary of the evidence seems to support that. Some one mentioned >magnetic bubble memory technology (which I think faded out?). However I would ahh, yes, bubble memory. I worked at Bell Labs in the 70's and the big shots were always trying to find ways to force that technology into various applications. as I recall, the density was good (for the time) but the access times were terrible... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 17:17:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16651; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:12:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:12:17 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712042242.JAA02225@nornet.nor.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:11:09 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"oK7dq1.0._34.dJrXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I couldn't locate the paper in my files, but I remember Bearden's >endorsement and collaboration in some way, having presumeably seen the >device operate successfully. The effect was validated, in terms of his >theories (or vice versa), and he gave it the name VTA. We can believe it >or not. The VTA is mentioned quite a bit in that "On A Testable Unification of..." paper which can be found at the Electromagnum site... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 17:30:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA31375; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:29:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:29:35 -0800 From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: New device Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:30:51 -0800 Message-ID: <01bd011d$6c1162c0$5b4368cf@foo> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C6_01BD00DA.5DEE22C0" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ra3Fo2.0.4g7.xZrXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01BD00DA.5DEE22C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been lurking for a while and have not had anything to contribute till now. a russian device i saw on the net using air and the contraption in water gave me the idea. I am going to build it but would like your input on it's feasability. the water flows through flexible tubing and the balloon-weight units go all around. if this works you are all my witnesses on 12/5/97 if it wont work please tell me why. 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charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:43:11 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"Ude241.0.dO.zmrXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>If residual magnetism is a concern, why not >>place the material in the coil so it aids rather than >>opposes the field induced by the magnetizer? It's easier >>than degaussing. >> > >Wasn't this Coler's approach? Coler passed current thru the magnets themselves. I think the idea was to perturb the magnet's fields in order to create the oscillation that generated the current to perturb the magnet's fields, etc, etc... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 19:48:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09783; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:43:30 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:43:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3487A2AF.5334@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:43:59 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: recreating the VTA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fTyMa3.0.lO2.VXtXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter Nielsen wrote: > > >There have been no sucessful verification of Sweets claims. > > > > I couldn't locate the paper in my files, but I remember Bearden's > endorsement and collaboration in some way, having presumeably seen the > device operate successfully. The effect was validated, in terms of his > theories (or vice versa), and he gave it the name VTA. We can believe it or not. Partly true, partly untrue. Bearden never tested the VTA. Bearden also endorsed the MRA, which has been proven not to work, for very well understood reasons. So much for Mr. Bearden's endorsements. The effect was not validated independantly. > I have known several FE inventors personally, and they were all more > intuitive than scientific. Maybe eccentric would be a better word. One > received the idea for his design, spontaneously, after a serious accident. > The bottom line is you don't commit alot of time and personal finances to > something you don't believe in. If there is any fraud, I would say it > originates as self-fraud, but it is highly unlikely every reported instance > of OU falls into this category. Bystanders can get hurt in any sport. Intuitive, eccentric inventors are fine, so long as they do good work. You know, quite a few 'conventional' physics people are just as intuitive and eccentric as any I've found in the O/U field. I'm afraid that the vast majority of over unity claims have indeed been false. Its far less likley that some suppressive conspiracy has suppressed a large number of working devices. We may not like to admit this, but check the facts. There have been countless over unity claims, and no technology to back it up. > To avoid the myopia of "pure" science, perhaps it would be more productive > to look for points in common between the most plausible designs on record, > instead of picking each one apart individually, mostly on guesswork, and > then cranking up the next "golden oldie". Eventually something will gel. > > Peter Nielsen "Pure" science is all about how you study and research, and has nothing to do with what you study. "Conventional" physics, that is the conventional physics establishment is myopic indeed, but this has nothing to do with 'good' science. You can use good scientific methods in studying anything from Automatic writing to Witchcraft. "Pure" science is not myopic, quite the opposite, its about not letting subjective beliefs take the place of objective evidence. It seens that far more time and energy has been wasted on designs that have no chance of acheiving over unity operation that on plausible designs. Why is is that many people take any effort to seperate truth from myth as 'picking apart', and assume that its all guesswork? A perfect example of guesswork is provided by the many attempts to justify over unity claims with faulty theory. The over unity waters have been muddied by a large number of false claims, some fraud, some experimental error and bad science. The field as a whole has a fantastically bad record for self critical review, peer review, and proper testing and measurment methods. If we are going to acheive anything, we need to look this long record of shoddy work and deliberate fraud right in the eye, and change our collective ways. Maybe a good dose of self-critical review of where we have been is a good place to start? Science is about being aggressive, even harsh with new ideas. Good ideas propogate by survival of the fittest, and the defeat of incorrect concepts by proven ovjective facts. The quest for over unit devices seems to strongly resist giving up ideas that do not work for known, understood reasons. It seems to cling onto mythical ideas that just dont work, and waste energy recovering the same old ground, never learning why these devices did not work, and will not work. Nothing is going to gel this way. The overunity field as a whole is reluctant to learn from failure, it tries its best to never admit failure much less benifit from understanding why something failed. I'm off my soap box. Sorry for the bandwidth people. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 20:10:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13395; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:09:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:09:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:10:04 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EPDA5.0.9H3.yvtXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Dowse wrote: > I was begining to think that the VTA magnetic bubbles are not too special, > your summary of the evidence seems to support that. Some one mentioned > magnetic bubble memory technology (which I think faded out?). However I would > still like to investigate threshold or incomplete magnetising of ceramics just > for curiosity. You never know, it could come in handy somewhere else! Absolutely! Many people research things not because they beleive, but because they want to understand. Now thats science! > Thank you Alan for your efforts and for telling us about your research, I > don't think I'll be pestering you on this one too often in the future. (Unless.......!) > > Now. The MRA? What's the low down on that one? (So as not to waste time > experimenting on old ground). The MRA, or Magnetic Resonance Amplifier is essentially a crude switching power supply. 'Invented' and promoted by Joel McClain and Norm Wootan some years back on Keelynet. Due to faulty measurment methods (related to AC power factor, duty cycle, and digital volt meters being effected by frequency and waveshapes, etc.) it appeared to be over unity, but was far from unity, much less over unity. The thing that bugs me about the MRA, is that Joel had these measurment issues clearly pointed out to him PRIOR to the public release of the design, and he went to far as to withdraw the electronic file from Keelynet after claiming to understand the measurment errors. Later, a slightly altered version of the design became what we today know as the MRA. A great many people invested a significant amount of time and money persuing a design that never worked, and never will. At one point, the MRA was wrapped in vauge references to 'tetrahedral geometery' and other similar buzz words. Several investors did loose hard cold cash over this one. A testing lab was hired (by the inventor) to perform tests on a MRA prototype, but they were told exactly how to perform the testing, and how to process the results, the test lab was quite clear that they were only doing exactly what they were paid to do, and were not performing an objective, independant test. Fortunately, enough design data existed to put this device in its grave, after a popular run of several years of wasted time, and uncounted cash. Having watched the whole history of the MRA from the very beginning, from the sidelines (hiding in dark shadows?) I tend to be upset by seeing many people disheartened after chasing after phantoms. I tried to pull the plug early, but was branded as a 'suppressive type' for my efforts. People often dont want the truth when its not what they want to hear. So I kept my 'suppressive' head down. I still deeply regret that choice. But you can scratch the MRA off your shrinking list. But never give up the search, the possible rewards for the planet far outweight the pain of any number of failures. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 20:16:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00692; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:16:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:16:06 -0800 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 04:15:26 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34882bfe.2679522@mail.eisa.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mGKSH3.0.fA.40uXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:25:33 -0500, ralph muha wrote: [snip] >So, can we build a SCYBOLT and try it ourselves? No, the only thing >we can do is give Cagle our hard-earned $$$ and pray that he delivers >our personal fusion reactors before the big coronal mass ejection >triggers the magnetic pole reversal that will be the beginning of >the end of civilization as we know it... People invest venture capital all the time. Sometimes with more risk, sometimes with less. In each case the investor must determine for themselves whether or not they think the eventual possible payoff is worth some of their funds. In this case I thought so, and have made a small investment. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 21:34:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24101; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:34:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:34:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:31:46 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion In-Reply-To: <34882bfe.2679522@mail.eisa.net.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"doJ4J.0.Tu5.J9vXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote re Cagle's SCYBOLT ideas : > >People invest venture capital all the time. Sometimes with more risk, >sometimes with less. In each case the investor must determine for >themselves whether or not they think the eventual possible payoff is >worth some of their funds. >In this case I thought so, and have made a small investment. A remarkable admission. Congratulations Robin. I also toyed with the idea of joining forces to some extent with Charles but found his attitude a little hard-nosed at the time. I guess you signed his non-disclosure agreement and got to check out all his information ? I considered it except that he would make no concessions at all and since I had knowledge and ideas that may have coincided with some of his, I didn't want to sign away my right to my own ideas! So all I wanted to know was what he had put into his patent application which would become public domain as soon as it got issued. But he wouldn't even let me know any of that without signing. So I decided to wait until his patent got issued so I could access it in the normal fashion with no strings attached. I think he has some interesting evidence for his "General case" theorem - something like ball lightning generated from a Tesla coil but as I remember it didn't last long enough (without power being applied) to qualify as real BL from my point of view. I guess you know all about that Robin? Do you happen to know if his patent application information is now available or are we still waiting. To what extent can you talk about what you know? More recently I have become convinced that Fusion, Fission, etc, are dreadfully painful and inefficient approaches for generating energy if things like Moray's device, and the Testatica are possible. Also it seems to me that if Charles's "General case" theorem is correct then there is a hell of a lot better way to obtain energy than by the crazy roundabout route of fusion! Looking forward to your comments Robin. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 22:21:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23323; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:21:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:21:15 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971205142100.006bf334@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:21:00 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: New device In-Reply-To: <01bd011d$6c1162c0$5b4368cf@foo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XylWL1.0.Ki5.PrvXq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grat wrote: >I have been lurking for a while and have not had anything to >contribute till now. A Russian device i saw on the net using air >and the contraption in water gave me the idea. >I am going to build it but would like your input on it's feasability. >the water flows through flexible tubing and the balloon-weight units >go all around. >if this works you are all my witnesses on 12/5/97 >if it wont work please tell me why. Don't waste your time Grat. The only principle of operation I can see working here is gravity and weights. This type of device can never work. The reason is that as far as we know gravity is a *potential* type of field. That means that if you move a weight around along any path you like, the only thing that matters is the potential that the weight is at (ie the distance from the centre of the earth). As you lose height energy is given out, but in order to get it back to the same height again, exactly the same energy (and more to overcome friction) must be put back in again and you end up with nothing. And the fact is you always want to get things back to the position they started from having given some energy out. Often these schemes are so complex that it is impossible to see just where the energy is going back and forth and that is how one can be fooled. But if you consider that any structure of this sort is just made up of lumps of mass (break it down into molecules if you like) and each lump is simply moving in a potential field then it becomes rather obvious (and mathematically proveable) that you can never get net energy out of it. So if you want to get energy out you have to try something different than simply hoping that a mass might weigh a bit more at one moment than another - we are fairly sure from supermarket shopping that weights of masses don't change appreciably. Maybe if you spin or magnetise a mass it might change weight through some unknown interaction and thereby give you free energy. But you can be pretty sure that just moving weighs around is not going to achieve anything. I had a lecturer at University who talked about the "impossibility" of perpetual motion but then said something like "but his father has a scheme which works" and proceeded to draw a diagram on the board of a very similar perpetual motion machine to your one. It was supposed to work under water and had individual air-filled boyancy balloons attached to a belt just like yours with weights which pressed on them and compressed them just like yours do. I remember that at the time I was shocked that he thought it would actually work! I liked the guy - I thought he was a good lecturer. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 01:02:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18158; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:02:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:02:25 -0800 (PST) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:00:59 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <348ba728.34214780@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H9IE01.0.YR4.VCyXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:31:46 +0800, John Winterflood wrote: [snip] >A remarkable admission. Congratulations Robin. I also toyed with >the idea of joining forces to some extent with Charles but found his >attitude a little hard-nosed at the time. I guess you signed his >non-disclosure agreement and got to check out all his information ? No, I too found it a bit hard to swallow :). But I have been corresponding with him for some time, and have a fair idea of what is what. Besides, you may have noticed of late, that ever more is being made available on his web site. Especially take notice of the cutaway diagram of the SCYBOLT. [snip] >So all I wanted to know was what he had put into his patent >application which would become public domain as soon as it got >issued. But he wouldn't even let me know any of that without signing. >So I decided to wait until his patent got issued so I could access >it in the normal fashion with no strings attached. I think he has Judging by the fact that another patent was recently rejected, based on the notion that "no method was proposed for overcoming the coulomb barrier", I don't give him a high chance of ever getting a patent. (It reminded me of the rejection of Moray's (?) first transistor, because it didn't have a cathode). When will the patent office learn that they don't even have the right to reject patents just because they don't understand why they should work? >some interesting evidence for his "General case" theorem - something >like ball lightning generated from a Tesla coil but as I remember it >didn't last long enough (without power being applied) to qualify as >real BL from my point of view. I guess you know all about that >Robin? You won't get any change out of me, that you can't get out of Charles, so don't bother trying :). > >Do you happen to know if his patent application information is now >available or are we still waiting. To what extent can you talk >about what you know? See above. > >More recently I have become convinced that Fusion, Fission, etc, >are dreadfully painful and inefficient approaches for generating >energy if things like Moray's device, and the Testatica are >possible. Also it seems to me that if Charles's "General case" >theorem is correct then there is a hell of a lot better way to >obtain energy than by the crazy roundabout route of fusion! > >Looking forward to your comments Robin. > I am slowly beginning to think that use of energy itself to accomplish ones ends, will eventually be seen as unproductive. I suspect that by combining positive and negative entropy generating processes, one may be able to achieve change with no change in entropy at all. (Don't ask me how! :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 02:09:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23627; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:08:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:08:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971205180729.006c1008@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:07:29 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion In-Reply-To: <348ba728.34214780@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RNhB7.0.4n5.UAzXq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: >[snip] >But I have been corresponding with him for some time, and have a fair >idea of what is what. Besides, you may have noticed of late, that ever >more is being made available on his web site. Especially take notice >of the cutaway diagram of the SCYBOLT. Yes I have been watching closely lately as he said he was releasing a lot of info at the end of November. >[snip] >Judging by the fact that another patent was recently rejected, based >on the notion that "no method was proposed for overcoming the coulomb >barrier", I don't give him a high chance of ever getting a patent. I wonder which patent you are referring to and how you find out about patents which are rejected. Is this one of Charles's patents or someone elses one on similar lines. >>[snip] >>real BL from my point of view. I guess you know all about that >>Robin? > >You won't get any change out of me, that you can't get out of Charles, >so don't bother trying :). I wasn't imagining you might do that, just wondering if someone else at least was full bottle on his technical info. >I am slowly beginning to think that use of energy itself to accomplish >ones ends, will eventually be seen as unproductive. >I suspect that by combining positive and negative entropy generating >processes, one may be able to achieve change with no change in entropy >at all. (Don't ask me how! :) I actually don't know what you mean by "negative entropy generating processes". A lot of things I fancy doing inevitably seem to demand power - ie travelling long distances in short amounts of time. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 06:22:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18403; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:21:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:21:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3487FF70.A30371D1@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:19:48 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mLAu.0.RV4.wt0Yq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > Absolutely! Many people research things not because they beleive, but > because they want to understand. > > Now thats science! > > ....The MRA? What's the low down on that one? (So as not to waste time > > experimenting on old ground). > > ....Fortunately, enough design data existed to put this device in its grave, > after a popular run of several years of wasted time, and uncounted cash. > > ....you can scratch the MRA off your shrinking list. > > But never give up the search, the possible rewards for the planet far > outweight the pain of any number of failures. -- Hi Bob and all, Thanks for your reply Bob. Now thing are getting interesting!.......I'm trying to resist the urge to ask you for more but I'm failing!! So here goes. In your opinion what devices/claims or phonenoma/anomolies _are_ worth chasing and which other ones do you consign to the trash can? I understand I am asking for your own opinion and that others may not agree. (They can post their opinions I suppose? Please do.....I'm all eyes). The reason I am asking is because over the last few years I have accumulated a huge bunch of files on OU anomolies etcetras (my spell checker returns this, so it must be correct!) but no other critical analysis apart from my own. This is one of the main reason I'm on the list. Please excuse me if I'm asking people to tread old ground but the kind of round up I seek doesn't exist any where as far as I know and in any case everyone has their own ideas which need to be aired regularly for at least two reasons. 1) To help ward of self delusions and 2) to inform new comers. I can't see the wasted bandwidth argument. What's the list here for anyway? --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 06:24:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18182; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:23:09 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:23:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3487FF92.A69475ED@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:20:23 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freenergy Subject: Design News mag. asks about anti-gravity! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h3pR2.0.-R4.9v0Yq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -- Hi all, A trade journal for engineering designers called 'Design News' has started a correspondence column. The first one asked for opinions on the claim made by a U.K. company who are marketing magnets which are fitted to the fuel line in your car and can increase power and/or efficiency. The company concerened tested the idea out over 1 year on a lerge diesel lorry saving thousands og pounds in fuel overthe twelve month. The current issue is asking for opinions and info on gyroscopic anti gravity claims. Amazing, tucked away behind the adverts for drive belts and lock washers! E-mail them with your view and maybe they'll expand the column so that ordinary engineers become better informed. --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 06:23:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18367; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:21:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:21:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3487FF64.C6575229@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:19:36 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion References: <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <348ba728.34214780@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IHH6u3.0.pU4.kt0Yq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > I am slowly beginning to think that use of energy itself to accomplish > ones ends, will eventually be seen as unproductive. > I suspect that by combining positive and negative entropy generating > processes, one may be able to achieve change with no change in entropy > at all. (Don't ask me how! :) -- See New Scientist magazine, 29th November '97 No2110 p40-44 'Crystal Gazing' by Philip Ball (associate editor of Nature). Colloidal supensions of tiny polymer spherical beads, when exceeding 49.4% of the total volume of a cotainer of liquid and when both are engineered to cancel van der Waals and electrostatic forces (and even when the net force is repulsive!) will still form crystals due to entropy functions. Entropy is not a force but acts like one! Technologies are being developed using this phonenomon. --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 11:53:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20201; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:52:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:52:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712051951.OAA09841@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:53:00 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QvMmI.0.Yx4.Dk5Yq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: Robin van Spaandonk > When will the patent office learn that they don't even have the right > to reject patents just because they don't understand why they should > work? It must depend on the examiner. Have you read the Hieronymous patent? It says you can grow plants in the dark by running a wire from a plate in their area to a plate outside in the sun, and other things straight out of von Reichenbach. But it's a real patent, not an application. "There are four kinds of people in this world: cretins, fools, morons, and lunatics." --Umberto Eco From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 14:23:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13617; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:23:10 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:23:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712052222.RAA27620@mime2.prodigy.com> X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm04sc03 From: TTYW73A@prodigy.com (MR LAWRENCE S WUEST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:22:08, -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: remove Resent-Message-ID: <"enbdY.0.OK3.6x7Yq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: please remove me from the mailing list thanks From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 14:50:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA32566; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:49:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:49:51 -0800 From: Ro Conroy Message-ID: <681255eb.348881c3@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:35:45 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"_h4Ke3.0.ly7.EK8Yq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-12-05 03:57:07 EST, John Winterflood,you write: << More recently I have become convinced that Fusion, Fission, etc, are dreadfully painful and inefficient approaches for generating energy if things like Moray's device, and the Testatica are possible. >> This is a little off track, but I think I remember reading in a "Reader Digest" about 30 years ago about how locals in an African desert mining operation were able to work in 120 heat. If I remember correctly, what they did was measure the native intake and waste and found that somehow the natives's system transmuted the sodium intake into a potassium waste product, and supposedly this reaction took the in the energy required in the cooling of the natives. I may have my facts wrong but this was the jist of the story. Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 15:27:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21992; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:27:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:27:23 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:27:23 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Free Energy Videotapes for Sale Resent-Message-ID: <"DsimN1.0.TN5.Jt8Yq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.4link.net/~pluto/alternat.html PLUTONIUM FILMS, INC.: Alternative And Free Energy Device Videotapes Offering several videotapes for sale: Alternative & Free Energy Devices: Parts-I & II; The Fuel-Less Engine; Free Energy Motors; Stan Dayo Discussing Energy Subjects; Bruce Depalma - The "N" Machine; David Williams: Free Energy; The Truth About Antigravity; and Townsend Brown Electrostatics With Larry Davenport. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 15:39:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23946; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:39:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:39:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: Re: New Device Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:39:58 -0800 Message-ID: <01bd01d7$19546680$104368cf@foo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="----------------------------"; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"uMuQa1.0.3s5.j29Yq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John said: >Don't waste your time Grat. The only principle of operation I can >see working here is gravity and weights. This type of device can >never work. Thanks for the reply, but what about the wheel that guy in the 1600's made? To me it seems that as long as the weights are heavy enough to push the water back to the top that one side is always going to be heavier and it will turn. BTW, that air powered one that your teacher told you about is the same one I saw on a russian web page that gave me the idea. Too many problems with water pressure, sealing, etc. In conclusion I will still build it and let you all know the results. Thanx, Grat http://grat.home.ml.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 16:11:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12833; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:01:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:01:10 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34882bfe.2679522@mail.eisa.net.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:00:37 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Resent-Message-ID: <"SiNkn3.0.K83.4N9Yq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:15 PM -0500 12/4/97, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >People invest venture capital all the time. Sometimes with more risk, >sometimes with less. In each case the investor must determine for >themselves whether or not they think the eventual possible payoff is >worth some of their funds. If Cagle is trying to attract venture capital, pages like this are *not* the way to do it. (Those people are interested in profits, not prophets) http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/ToHelp.html > What Can You Do To Help? > > The LORD Has Shown To Establish > Project SCYBOLTTM > as a Corporation Sole > (nonprofit religious foundation) > > and > To Accept Tithes > and Offerings > > For This Work > > ******** > If you wish to Tithe > or > Make a Freewill Offering to > > Project SCYBOLT(TM) > > Send your Tithe or Offering to: > > Project SCYBOLTTM > 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. > Salem, OR 97304 > 503-362-7781 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 16:17:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28116; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:12:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:12:45 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:11:41 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: C and D on AB Resent-Message-ID: <"Cy26z.0.Ct6.wX9Yq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Cagle and Stan Deyo are tonight's guests on the Art Bell show... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 16:20:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14795; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:16:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:16:55 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:56:03 -0500 Subject: Neurophone & Bioelectrofier (off-topic) Message-ID: <19971205.185608.10342.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-7,12-21 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"lvw_42.0.vc3.sb9Yq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Two" Quick Questions for all... First, does anyone have a schematic for Patrick Flanagan's Neurphone, or perhaps a copy of patent #3,393,279 (one year too old for IBM's server). BTW, what does it cost to order a patent from IBM. Actually, if some one has the address to order from the Gov't directly I would appreciate it. Second, has anyone ever experimented with "plants". Have a copy of Thomas Miller's Bioelectrofier project (related to Beck's viral cure) that was published in May 96 issue of '73 magazine (a Ham radio mag.) Many call it a "plant growth stimulator" to keep the Fed's away. Please answer me direct on this question as not to clog the BW here. However, all may be interested in Miller's website.... http://www.infocom.com/~thomil/ Have a good one! Steve Heckman steve-nyeoka@juno.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 16:44:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21073; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:43:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:43:18 -0800 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 00:42:35 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3489895b.5496718@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <348ba728.34214780@mail.eisa.net.au> <3 Status: O X-Status: 487FF64.C6575229@pavilion.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3487FF64.C6575229@pavilion.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dZB4w3.0.A95.b-9Yq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:19:36 +0100, Robert Dowse wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> I am slowly beginning to think that use of energy itself to accomplish >> ones ends, will eventually be seen as unproductive. >> I suspect that by combining positive and negative entropy generating >> processes, one may be able to achieve change with no change in entropy >> at all. (Don't ask me how! :) > >-- >See New Scientist magazine, 29th November '97 No2110 p40-44 'Crystal Gazing' >by Philip Ball (associate editor of Nature). > >Colloidal supensions of tiny polymer spherical beads, when exceeding 49.4% of >the total volume of a cotainer of liquid and when both are engineered to >cancel van der Waals and electrostatic forces (and even when the net force is >repulsive!) will still form crystals due to entropy functions. Entropy is not >a force but acts like one! Technologies are being developed using this phonenomon. >--------- >Rob Dowse Actually Rob, I think this is an example where the overall entropy increases. Specifically, that the entropy increase of the fluid is greater than the decrease of the spheres. That's what they mean by "entropy driven". No, AFAIK there are no "overall entropy decreasing processes" recognised by current science. So my initial statement "invokes" a hypothetical process which lies outside the current standard model. That's why it's just based on intuition, not science. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 16:45:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02157; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:44:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:44:04 -0800 (PST) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 00:42:37 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <348a8ac6.5859734@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.1.32.19971205133146.006bc778@cylle Status: O X-Status: ne.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.1.32.19971205180729.006c1008@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971205180729.006c1008@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cnx162.0.cX.G_9Yq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:07:29 +0800, John Winterflood wrote: [snip] >>Judging by the fact that another patent was recently rejected, based >>on the notion that "no method was proposed for overcoming the coulomb >>barrier", I don't give him a high chance of ever getting a patent. > >I wonder which patent you are referring to and how you find out >about patents which are rejected. Is this one of Charles's >patents or someone elses one on similar lines. Someone in one of the newsgroups (SPF?) mentioned that his patent had been rejected, and why. (No, not Charles). [snip] >I wasn't imagining you might do that, just wondering if someone >else at least was full bottle on his technical info. Possibly, but not me. Certainly someone at the patent office is though :) > >>I am slowly beginning to think that use of energy itself to accomplish >>ones ends, will eventually be seen as unproductive. >>I suspect that by combining positive and negative entropy generating >>processes, one may be able to achieve change with no change in entropy >>at all. (Don't ask me how! :) > >I actually don't know what you mean by "negative entropy generating >processes". A lot of things I fancy doing inevitably seem to demand >power - ie travelling long distances in short amounts of time. > Actually it's not the travel itself that demands the power, just the acceleration. However to be fair, I did say "change", which implies acceleration, so I am indeed referring to true negative entropy processes. I don't know of any for a fact, I just have my suspicions. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 16:45:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02137; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:43:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:43:59 -0800 (PST) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 00:42:33 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34888928.5445705@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199712051951.OAA09841@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <199712051951.OAA09841@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hkHZs3.0.GX.B_9Yq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:53:00 -0500, Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: [snip] >It must depend on the examiner. Have you read the Hieronymous patent? I'll put it on my todo list. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 16:45:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21770; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:45:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:45:24 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:44:58 +1100 Message-Id: <199712060044.LAA27465@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"OWk_K.0.yJ5.Y0AYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Now thats science! > (snip) >A great many people invested a significant amount of >time and money persuing a design that never worked, and never will. > In the interest of even "purer" science perhaps you can tell us, in terms of its operating principle, why you know the MRA won't work. As an act of faith, I am preparing a set of emerald tablets. >At one point, the MRA was wrapped in vauge references to 'tetrahedral >geometery' and other similar buzz words. > Well, everyone's got an angle. Do you know the relationship of Phi to a rotating tetrahedral interface? >I tend to be upset by >seeing many people disheartened after chasing after phantoms. > Exactly, and this is where we need enough understanding to consolidate plausible approaches, before spending time and money. No single person can hope to research everything in detail. >But you can scratch the MRA off your shrinking list. > Thanks. I have a long list of things to shrink. But my head is not one of them. BTW, I noticed those egg-shaped holes you put in the soap box. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 17:04:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25620; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:04:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:04:07 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neurophone & Bioelectrofier (off-topic) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 20:00:04 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <19971205.185608.10342.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19971205.185608.10342.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Lines: 21 Resent-Message-ID: <"4T0Lo3.0.CG6.6IAYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >First, does anyone have a schematic for Patrick Flanagan's >Neurphone No. Look at my web site for some Neurophone info. Look under the LINK page to a Terry B.'s site for some related info. I need to get that moved under the Neurophone page as well. >However, all may be interested in Miller's website.... > > http://www.infocom.com/~thomil/ Thanks I'll check it out. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 17:29:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29076; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:23:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:23:26 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712051951.OAA09841@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:00:12 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Resent-Message-ID: <"8O1e4.0.D67.DaAYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:53 PM -0500 12/5/97, Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: >> From: Robin van Spaandonk >> When will the patent office learn that they don't even have the right >> to reject patents just because they don't understand why they should >> work? > >It must depend on the examiner. Have you read the Hieronymous patent? >It says you can grow plants in the dark by running a wire from a plate >in their area to a plate outside in the sun, and other things straight >out of von Reichenbach. But it's a real patent, not an application. and, unlike the SCYBOLT, the H-machine is a real device. Presumably, if the patent examiner had any objections, Hieronymous would have been able to demonstrate that it worked... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 18:37:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11607; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:37:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:37:09 -0800 X-Recipient: From: "BIT" To: Subject: remove Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:27:50 +1000 Message-ID: <01bada4c$3e4fd960$1db93ecb@andy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BADAA0.0FFBE960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"BPOkZ1.0.Gr2.JfBYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BADAA0.0FFBE960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for removeing me from your mailing list! ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BADAA0.0FFBE960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for removeing me from your = mailing=20 list!
 
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BADAA0.0FFBE960-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 19:09:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17943; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:08:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:08:59 -0800 Message-ID: <3488EC42.7617@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 22:10:10 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <199712060044.LAA27465@nornet.nor.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8hTnv.0.8O4.97CYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter Nielsen wrote: > In the interest of even "purer" science perhaps you can tell us, in terms of > its operating principle, why you know the MRA won't work. As an act of > faith, I am preparing a set of emerald tablets. It cannot acheive over unity operation simply because it is a closed, conventional EM system. Also, proper measurment methods clearly prove that it is far from unity, much less over unity. Many people have made actual measurments showing this is the case, and the MRA will not power itself, a huge warning sign. > >At one point, the MRA was wrapped in vauge references to 'tetrahedral > >geometery' and other similar buzz words. > Well, everyone's got an angle. Do you know the relationship of Phi to a > rotating tetrahedral interface? Its interesting to look at when these references were added to the descriptions of the MRA, only once the testing methods began to draw close attention and large ammounts of flack on alt.sci.physics.new-theories. They were not originally part of the MRA documentation, and were added later. > >I tend to be upset by > >seeing many people disheartened after chasing after phantoms. > Exactly, and this is where we need enough understanding to consolidate > plausible approaches, before spending time and money. No single person can > hope to research everything in detail. Agreed, there are far too many types of claimed over unity devices, and some general classes have such large numbers individual claims that no one person could do a through job of studying each claim. > >But you can scratch the MRA off your shrinking list. > > > > Thanks. I have a long list of things to shrink. But my head is not one of them. A true beleiver? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 19:42:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24355; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:42:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:42:12 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19971206093506.228fe9d8@pop.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: ksmith@pop.ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 15:47:22 -1200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ken Smith Subject: How to REMOVE yourself Resent-Message-ID: <"hGThV1.0.Ny5.IcCYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Thanks for removeing me from your mailing list! > Since I am am tired as anyone else of people not using the request server for admin like REMOVE. Here again is the portion of the intro to mailling lists (freenrg) WELCOME TO FREENRG-L ************************************************************************** To subscribe to this list, send a blank message with the word "subscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. Send it to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com No quotes around "subscribe," of course. To unsubscribe, send the word "unsubscribe" to the same address. ************************************************************************** In other words. DO NOT reply to this message (or it will go to everyone but the server you want!!). Set the address to : freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com and in the SUBJECT line - not the BODY of the text, type the word : remove Now wasn't that easy. Goodbye...... Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 19:56:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27372; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:54:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:54:51 -0800 Message-ID: <3488F703.49B1@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 22:56:03 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> <3487FF70.A30371D1@pavilion.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LQ3Md2.0.Uh6.9oCYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Dowse wrote: > Hi Bob and all, > > Thanks for your reply Bob. Now thing are getting interesting!.......I'm trying > to resist the urge to ask you for more but I'm failing!! Why try? > So here goes. In your opinion what devices/claims or phonenoma/anomolies _are_ > worth chasing and which other ones do you consign to the trash can? I > understand I am asking for your own opinion and that others may not agree. > (They can post their opinions I suppose? Please do.....I'm all eyes). As Peter Nielsen correctly points out, no one person could rightfully claim to know the details of the many claims of over unity operation, but you ask for an opinion. I'll try not to name names here...... Clearly the MRA goes into the dumper, as it exmperically proven not to be over unity. The VTA has no objective supporting evidence, but we do not have real data on the original, so we cannot rightfully say its proven not to work. We can say that there is no clear theory of why it should be exempt from the known laws of physics however. So we can't prove it belongs in the dumper, but there is no good reason to beleive that it should work. Any work on the VTA must be classified as highly speculative at best. The Brandt-Tesla switch, Kromrey converter, and other rechargable battery based inventions all depend on a limited life component, with significant disposal and replacement energy costs (the batteries themselves). This renders this class if machine impractical for large scale energy production applications in my opinion. If they really put out more energy than they used, you should be able to run them from capacitor banks rather than betteries, if this is the case for any given claimed O/U device, then this would be worthy of investigation indeed. If batteries can be used, but capacitors are specifically banned, then its not putting out more EM power than it uses, and into the dumper it must go. This covers quite a few individual devices, some quite popular. Any device that gates virtual particle flux into EM energy should be investigated, specifically any possible biological effects of the vacuum polarization they might produce external to the device. If this external polarization is present, then even a working O/U device would have to go into the dumper until we know a heck of a lot more about the interation between vacuum polarization and biological systems. (Its possible that several devices that fall into this catagory that are being kept under wraps by the inventors due to anomalous external effects.) Permanent magnet motors, in my opinion, belong firmly in the dumper. We know enough about physics to see that magnets are always conserviative in the long run. One device, my Barkhausen Effect Battery, is O/U, but is sadly totally impractical for energy production, but it does serve as a nice carrot, showing that O/U does appear possible for 'open' systems. So I do not feel that the search for practical O/U technology is a total waste of time at all. We cannot afford not to look. N-Machines belong in the dumper, we know that are conservative, and we know why they are conservative. Many dont want to accept this, but that cannot prove that this is not the case, so far. Flux gate devices, in the dumper for the same reasons as N-Machines. > The reason I am asking is because over the last few years I have accumulated a > huge bunch of files on OU anomolies etcetras (my spell checker returns this, > so it must be correct!) but no other critical analysis apart from my own. This > is one of the main reason I'm on the list. > > Please excuse me if I'm asking people to tread old ground but the kind of > round up I seek doesn't exist any where as far as I know and in any case > everyone has their own ideas which need to be aired regularly for at least two > reasons. 1) To help ward of self delusions and 2) to inform new comers. I agree completely. Unfortunatly people often dont share their failures, mainly becuase they wanted to beleive in a specific claim rather than the larger, abstract possibility of O/U in general. This is only Human nature. Several people have started such collections, but there does not seem to be a large movement toward getting individual claims documented as working, or not working. > I can't see the wasted bandwidth argument. What's the list here for anyway? Good point. Still, many really dont want to hear about why something does not work, or such-and-such device did not work. This is most often taken as attacking the device or inventor on some personal level, bad form in the free energy arena. As there have been far, far more O/U claims than proven devices, it seems that the majority of claims simply do not bare fruit. This being the case, any device that does not have an unusual degree of information available, independant duplication and verification, with accepted measurment methods should be treated as interesting, but highly suspect. The burden of proof lies with the design itself, and emperical data. Any device presented with a significant lack of technical acumen nust be treated as expecially suspect, as its unlikley that proper measurments have been performed to validate the claim. Testing is NOT easy, nor simple. Lacking detailed information on the device itself, then the theory of operation must describe the system as being open to some external source for its operation. If the device is fully closed, its fully convervative. It seems that if we are to have O/U technology, we have to work for it the hard way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 20:38:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28729; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:37:46 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:37:46 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3488F703.49B1@tiac.net> References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> <3487FF70.A30371D1@pavilion.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:36:51 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"JXSC_2.0.m07.PQDYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:56 AM -0500 12/6/97, Bob Shannon wrote: >If they really put out more energy than they used, you should be able to >run them from capacitor banks rather than betteries, if this is the case >for any given claimed O/U device, then this would be worthy of >investigation indeed. what about the Hans Coler device? where does that end up on your list? r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 22:12:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16288; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:11:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:11:58 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:11:53 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Christmas UP and RUNNING Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mMg3U2.0.M-3.joEYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I say I'm two (2) weeks late on this announcment, but the wife is BeNdInG my arm to 'tell you all' "GET WITH IT:)" (ouch - ok:} The lights ARE UP, the TREE IS UP, (and I STILL need to shop:( ----------------------- To YOU'all: Wife says: "DO IT NOW!" (if you haven't already:) ----------------------- Merry Christmas to ALL!! (NOW get to WORK on that X-mas prsent for the WORLD).... her words! "Let's SEE it! - For Everybody! MAN, Woman & child" BEST to You & YOURS :) -=se=- E-mail gift to come later :) (ouch! OK, love! Before Dec 25 I'll send the e-mail to the user-list here.... Holiday's Best :):):):):):):) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 00:12:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA31162; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:12:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:12:07 -0800 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 08:11:30 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <348caa2a.13896615@mail.eisa.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"06OjE1.0.pc7.MZGYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:00:37 -0500, ralph muha wrote: >At 11:15 PM -0500 12/4/97, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >>People invest venture capital all the time. Sometimes with more risk, >>sometimes with less. In each case the investor must determine for >>themselves whether or not they think the eventual possible payoff is >>worth some of their funds. > >If Cagle is trying to attract venture capital, pages like this are *not* the >way to do it. (Those people are interested in profits, not prophets) > >http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/ToHelp.html > [snip] I am going out on a limb here a bit, and may be speaking out of turn, so please understand that the following is my personal opinion. As I understand US law, he is not allowed to advertise shares in his company on the net. This can only be done through a company prospectus. Freewill gifts on the other hand are a different kettle of fish. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 00:52:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24014; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:52:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:52:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:51:38 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How to REMOVE yourself In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971206093506.228fe9d8@pop.ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Yfefd.0.6t5.59HYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: eou/o1205.txt On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Ken Smith wrote: -snip- >> To unsubscribe, send the word "unsubscribe" to the same address. >>freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com >>and in the SUBJECT line - not the BODY of the text, type the word : >>remove / *Unsubcribe* >>Now wasn't that easy. Goodbye...... >>Ken >> Thanks Ken, good reminder to all! :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 09:43:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11936; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:42:14 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:42:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34897F8F.A16C1361@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:38:45 +0100 From: Robert Dowse Reply-To: redesign@pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> <3487FF70.A30371D1@pavilion.co.uk> <3488F703.49B1@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e5i8R3.0.Ow2.pvOYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > Any device that gates virtual particle flux into EM energy should be > investigated, specifically any possible biological effects of the vacuum > polarization they might produce external to the device. E.g. Hieronymous? and....? > One device, my Barkhausen Effect Battery, is O/U.... Can you give more details of this Bob? I would like to have a go at it. > > ...everyone has their own ideas which need to be aired regularly for at least two > > reasons. 1) To help ward of self delusions and 2) to inform new comers. > > I agree completely. Unfortunatly people often don't share their > failures...there does not seem to > be a large movement toward getting individual claims documented as > working, or not working. Yes, I have been thinking about how to tackle this problem. How do we present our experimental/theoretical negative and positive results so they are of actual use to others in the future? Some WWW sites are excellent but often they don't give a balance of reasons why their stuff may not be what they think it is or tell you how the shine on their stuff has faded in the fullness of time. Maybe we should expand and evolve the INE data base or something like that? > > I can't see the wasted bandwidth argument. What's the list here for anyway? > > Good point. Still, many really don't want to hear about why something > does not work, or such-and-such device did not work. This is most often > taken as attacking the device or inventor on some personal level, bad > form in the free energy arena. 99% or more stuff WILL be shown to be false, so what?......Clearing the path to the remaining 1% is where our efforts should be. People should not take their failure personally, it is a fact of doing experiments, especially in such a highly speculative area! So I think *more* critical analysis needs to be presented and this forum is the best I've come accross. > It seems that if we are to have O/U technology, we have to work for it > the hard way. I agree the central issue seems to be the inevitable negative results and how to deal with them. In any science, a negative result can be just as informatave and in many instance _more_ informative than a confirmation. For example if you still think it's worth more effort after you failed to prove or demonstrait something you ought to at least get better and better at your chosen craft. -- Thanks again Bob! --------- Rob Dowse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 14:13:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14076; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:12:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:12:45 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <348caa2a.13896615@mail.eisa.net.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:11:37 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Resent-Message-ID: <"qgcVa.0.nR3.RtSYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:11 AM -0500 12/6/97, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >I am going out on a limb here a bit, and may be speaking out of turn, >so please understand that the following is my personal opinion. >As I understand US law, he is not allowed to advertise shares in his >company on the net. This can only be done through a company >prospectus. Are you suggesting that all this 'apocalyptic physics' stuff is just a dodge, that he doesn't really believe it? >Freewill gifts on the other hand are a different kettle of fish. Yes, if he goes belly-up, the 'donors' will have no legal recourse... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 14:47:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03837; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:47:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:47:36 -0800 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 22:41:56 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3489cf57.3799562@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> <3487FF70.A30371D1@pavilion.co.uk> <3488F703.49B1@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <3488F703.49B1@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C_jAp3.0.sx.7OTYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 22:56:03 -0800, Bob Shannon wrote: [snip] >If they really put out more energy than they used, you should be able to >run them from capacitor banks rather than betteries, if this is the case >for any given claimed O/U device, then this would be worthy of >investigation indeed. [snip] There has from time to time been some suggestion that asymmetric acceleration of ions leads to tapping of the ZPE. Ions are present in large numbers in batteries, but not necessarily in capacitors (depends on type), so demanding that caps. be able to replace batteries, may just be "throwing out the baby with the bath water". Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 15:26:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22866; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:25:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:25:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712062324.XAA15556@mail.iol.ie> Reply-To: From: "gnlodge" To: "freenrg" Subject: Ringing..... Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:24:04 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6VkzR3.0.Ab5.4yTYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Could someone guide me as to how to determine a battery's most efficient charge frequency, where it is being pulse charged as in the Bedini/Kromley type setups.... Also, on the same thing, where can I get a suitable laminating material, that when made into a square section core for a coil, will saturate at a flux density above 1.5T or there abouts? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 16:44:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21910; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:44:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:44:33 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:46:07 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: AntiGravity News URL & Website Update Resent-Message-ID: <"Lwts_1.0.EM5.m5VYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.padrak.com/agn/index.shtml The AntiGravity News website has been expanded and updated on Dec. 5! Check It Out!!! ---> The site now includes: * Purpose of AntiGravity News * Address and Contact Information * Subscription Rates (World-Wide) * Table of Contents for the Current and Past Issues * Related Websites of Interest * Feedback Request Link Please visit the site and provide your feedback! Also, forward this email to any of your friends that may be interested. Thank you! (Patrick Bailey, for James Cox.) Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 17:47:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09957; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:45:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:45:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712070143.XAA14581@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:35:52 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: More about the VTA Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"hCCt.0.TR2.E_VYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: LETTER FROM MIKE WATSON Forwarded by Don Kelly//SEA (As you know Floyd Sweet recently died of a heart attack. Don Watson, of England, gave me a call recently and passed this news on to me. -Don Kelly) This seems a good time to review the VTA from my perspective. It is a mixture of for and against. Firstly, the Bad news. In answer to the question why did Sparky Sweet pass information on to me in England. The answer is simple, he was involved in various hassles with investors some years ago. Due to the gagging order placed against him and the threats from previous investors hanging over him, he felt if he told people in the States how to make a VTA the investors would sue once again. He did not want the secret of the VTA to die with him so if he could get someone in Europe to repeat his results he would isolate himself from investor problems in the USA and have the VTA based on an independent foundation. For this reason he contacted John Morrison in what was then Ferranti Ltd. in Scotland, and indirectly myself.. Toby Grotz visited me and made a video of my VTA system and by chance this video sufficiently impressed Sweet that he decided to pass some information to me in the hope that one of us could replicate it here in Europe. It is important to remember that Sweet told me countless times that he could only get the VTA to work with one group of magnets. Originally he thought he had made a universal discovery, which would work with any magnets, and his funding was based on the hope of eventually patenting a workable unit. It later transpired that only his set of magnets worked, commercial magnets will not oscillate, but, of course, investors could not appreciate this fact at all and turned nasty. A lot the misleading information he put out was really aimed at keeping these people at bay and give him time to solve the repeatability problem. (This is not new, J.W. Keely trod an almost identical path 100 years ago.) Magnets that did oscillate did so for only a few days or weeks. I roughly tested one pair of VTA magnets in Sweet's house and judging by their high resistance they were, most likely, Barium Ferrite. They had been in a unit that had stopped working at some stage and they were not magnetized face on the face but along the long axis. The magnetization was also strongly asymmetrical, having a much stronger pole at one end than the other. Presumably the other pole was buried in the core of the magnet. Although Sweet also thought these magnets were Barium Ferrite he never had them analyzed. The magnets originated in a junk store in LA and for this reason may have been process rejects. It is a strong possibility that they were not typical Barium Ferrite. Other magnetic ceramics have a very high resistance and some have a square loop characteristic. Normally these are not available in slabs but we do not know the origin of Sweet's. For example, they could have been used at some government establishment and later scrapped. All this is speculation, but one thing is clear, no one including Sweet himself has ever got a commercial ferrite magnet to oscillate. He told me that if he had solved that one he would have patented the VTA years ago. Incidently, over a period of time it became clear Sweet could not remember what he had said over the phone months previously. So by comparing previous and past statements we were able to establish a consistent story. I never saw a working VTA. Certainly Sweet seems to have got something to work as witnessed by Walter Rosenthal and Tom Bearden and also by Ashley Grey who was involved early on. Mark Goldes who had financed Sweet at one time suspected fraud and thought that the whole thing was done with hidden coils etc. He mentioned Sweets paranoid response on a couple of occasions which confirmed to him that Sweet had something to hide. I have tried duplicating the hidden coil but with the power Sweet got from the VTA, it would be difficult to do it undetected. Mark Goldes said the bench was always boxed in underneath, which is true in the Bearden video, and in the Ashley Grey photos in the recent SEA magazine. Assume a hidden coil was used then the excitation frequency must be above say 15 Khz otherwise it would be readily audible with 300 watts drawn by the VTA on the bench above. If a higher frequency were used, say 25 Khz, then the problem is that everything gets live in the vicinity, thus any metal object on the bench feels live. Instruments behave erratically and so on. It would be very difficult to fool an engineer such as Walter Rosenthal. At present I do not see how it would be possible to duplicate the effect with a hidden coil and escape detection. Of course the VTA in the Bearden video could have been duplicated with a hidden wire connected to the main. I put the hidden coil accusation to Sweet directly, he replied "Some Coil, Eh." It is true, it would be very difficult indeed to couple a hidden coil when the unit is generating 1 kW and remain undetected. Finally when I came over last year to see Sweet he said he had a machine working in LA, only a one hour drive away, which was going to be sold to General Motors. I and Peter Bruce asked to see it, we said we would drive him over. He point blank refused without excuse or explanation! There are two possibilities, the machine did not exist, or he was frightened that we would detect some fraud. I cannot see how watching the machine in operation could have "given anything away" any more than the Bearden video did. He always maintained to me that he had sold his invention to General Motors but would not reveal his contact man in GM. After his death Violet Sweet mentioned Chrysler not GM but again refused to give me a contact. One is forced to ask the question, "Is this all a fabrication?" Where do the lies end and the truth begin? Having said all that, I guess I do believe he did make some important discovery early on and like Keely before him got wrapped up in his own hype to the point where reality became submerged in half truth. All this subterfuge and half truth inevitably leads one to the view that the VTA is not what it seems. I soon found that some of the misleading information was unintentional. A perfect example was Sweet's assertion that ceramic magnets have an 8 Hz resonant frequency. I asked him to show Peter Bruce and myself how he arrived at this. He demonstrated that with a coil of wire under the magnet connected to a power oscillator and a piece of transformer iron held on to the magnet by attraction, edge on, the piece of iron vibrated at maximum amplitude at about 8 Hz. Of course we immediately substituted a hobby knife blade and the resonant frequency was different about 14 Hz and with different pieces of iron we got frequencies varied between 5 Hz and 20 Hz. We put this to him and he said that he had cut the lamination in half and the resonant frequency was the same. Peter Bruce pointed out that the mass per unit length was the same doing it that way so the resonant frequency would be the same. The lamination needs cutting in half along its length and then the resonant frequency would change. It became clear that he had assumed that the resonance was fundamental to the magnet and had not tried other pieces of iron. A similar thing can be said over use of the television receiver. I played with his set up myself (and also, I think Toby Grotz did a month or two earlier). Sweet claimed that if he briefly put the preconditioned magnet against the TV face it became energized. This could easily be the case but the never tried to find out what it was about the TV that did the job. He did an experiment, obtained a result, and assumed that the whole experimental set up was necessary. He never dissected the set up to find out what part was the real cause. If the TV does do anything at all it is probably due to the EHT leakage, which is significant from an old TV such as his. That in itself is an interesting possibility but it doesn't seem that Sweet pursued it, probably due to this idea he had of the TV receiving negative photons etc. Possibly the VTA was aided by RF. Sweet frequently mentioned that you had to tune in to the resonant frequency of space which is about 47.725 Mhz [1/(2 Pi SQRT(mu epislon))] If he did aid the VTA with RF this could explain the closed in box beneath the bench and his unaccountable behavior in other areas. If this is the case did the VTA produce overunity overall? Sweet originally used a rather strange radio receiver for conditioning magnets. Toby Grotz videoed it. It was shortly afterwards dismantled. This confirms Sweet's interest in RF and it does fit in with Mark Goldes suspicions. It could be that the VTA is above board, but I think it only fair to those who would have to spend time and money on this project, that they may possibly be chasing rainbows. Since Sweet's death people are scrabbling to get his papers, thinking they contain the "secret". I don't believe there is a secret as such. Even if there was, he would not have written anything down after his previous note book was stolen. If notes exist, large corporations, government or their agents will buy them up and that will be the end of the saga. Currently I believe that despite all indications to the contrary there is something in the VTA but at a smaller level than the hyped up figures we have heard. Everybody is following their own agenda in this research, but here are a few of the things I gleaned from Sweet: 1) The conditioning impulse does not make the magnet immediately suitable for use. After application of the conditioning initial impulse combined with AC conditioning frequency, the magnet has to be in a state which Sweet called 'running'. If the magnet was not running it would not subsequently self oscillate. Running is detected by wrapping a coil of about 100 turns of wire around the magnet and looking at the output on a scope. If it is running a small sine wave will be seen at the conditioning frequency of about 0.5 mv amplitude. A good differential probe is needed to see this effect which is otherwise swamped in noise. This shows that the magnet has been programmed to the conditioning frequency. 2) The running state decays after a few minutes, so that the magnet has to be post conditioned with the negative energy. He maintained that a TV set was the simplest way of doing this. The running magnet was placed against the tube face for a few seconds. The TV was of course modified to receive 47,725 Mhz, and the negative energy appeared in the raster, on the tube face. 3) No one knows if a type 5 strontium magnet can be made to run. Sweet tried a couple of times and was unsuccessful, but it still might be possible. Sweet's choice of Barium Ferrite was fortuitous. 4) The VTA does not run indefinitely. The magnets need recharging periodically but they appear to deteriorate and eventual will not condition properly. 5) Sweet tried many different ways to excite the magnets including high voltages. The magnet was placed on top of a stack of 12 glass plates about a foot square, interleaved with metal foil, and magnets. The foils/magnets were charged with 28 KV using the EHT of a color TV. (There is no virtue in the color TV, it was just a readily available EHT source.) RF at high power, Tesla transformers, bifilar and common coils were also tried at various times. The magnet had to be excited by this process before the pulse and AC conditioning were applied. In some cases the conditioning pulse was applied at the same time as the excitation. The idea behind these methods was to unglue the bound magnetic field. The theory is: excite the barium atoms and drive them into a high energy metastable state, rather in the way a phosphorescent body stores energy (Tom Bearden seems to have originated the barium atom excitation idea). The barium atom will easily lose this energy if disturbed excessively. The extra potential energy appears in the magnetic field itself, and the field may be regarded as potentized or charged. This process is not known in conventional physics. It is absolutely essential that the field remains in this state for the VTA to work. Unfortunately, the energy in the barium atoms slowly decays as they one by one fall into the ground state, and at the same time the magnetic field assumes its normal form. One of the properties of this excited magnetic field is that it appears fluid or mobile. The magnetic domains are fixed in a ferrite magnet, and since the field originates from the domains, the magnetic field is also normally fixed. Charging the field makes it appear as though it were blown up like a balloon, although energetically not physically. It is the energy in the field which is readily shifted about. It is the movement of this bulge of energy across the face of the magnet that makes the VTA work. If the magnetic field loses this excess energy and falls to its ground state it becomes fixed as usual. As far as I know physics is unaware of this effect and would probably say it is impossible. The curious thing is that space energy must be drawn in by this excited magnetic field. The common uncharged magnetic field does not have this effect. If more energy is taken from the coils of the VTA than is drawn from space, the energy in the magnetic field collapses to its normal value and all the Ba atoms fall to their ground state. It is clear that the charged magnet does not have to work in a VTA, it can do so mechanically. The PM motor is possible, provided the magnets are charged first. Again provided not too much power is taken, the magnets will ideally hold their charge indefinitely, drawing energy from space. I must iterate the fact that this process seems extremely elusive. It seems possible to make the magnets self-conditioning or self-charging so that although the conditioning effect dies away quickly, it has had time to attract space energy. Some of that energy is recycled to recharge the magnet. Mike Watson --------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 17:47:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09982; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:46:01 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:46:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712070143.XAA14603@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:54:18 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: VTA ideas Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199712010306.UAA09917@smtp02.primenet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"PRuv72.0.rR2.N_VYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > In a paper written by Don Watson - April 10, 1994, a design similiar to > Floyd Sweet's VTA is talked about. I will quote what he says about Magnetic > Bubbles, > "One possible mechanism that may help explain how the free energy generation > occurs in this machine involves magnetic bubbles. These circular domains > are polarity reversed regions that can be shifted when a magnetic field is > directed at a right angle to the plane of the magnet surface. The bubble > will move toward an are where it sees minimum energy. This minimum energy > area is shifted by the varying right angle field and could result in a > varying field as sensed by the ouput coil (Bifilar), which then generates > the energy. The field at a right angle to the magnet surface is generated > by the machine input coil (Regular solenoid type coil). This coil is > mounted inside the output coil." So we are speaking of a transformer like device. A little inner coil exciting the bubbles and the output bifilar coil acting like a secondary winding connected to the load. Playing with the bubble position causes a varying magnetic flux inside the output coil. The magnets are acting like "magnetic field power amplifiers". The question is : what is the operating frequency of this device ? If we excite the bubble @ 60 Hz, the magnetic flux inside the output coil will be cancelled out because that coil is bifilar. And what if we excite the bubbles with some HF ? This HF could be amplitude modulated ( AM ) @ 60 Hz to be detected at the output coil. I remember reading Mr. Sweet has injured his hand touching the VTA's output in the same way as an HF burnt : Electrical shock to humans from the VTA may be more damaging than contact with a 120 VRMS 60 HZ conventional powerline voltage. Floyd has accidentally had VTA current pass from his thumb to his smallest finger. It appears to freeze the flesh and was extremely painful for at least two weeks. This description is VERY similar to a RF burnt and also could explain the erroneous lectures on the meters. > > Then you have to trap the sine wave inside the magnets. In one of Tom > Bearden's latest email posts he says, > > "So you first get everything going in the nucleus. Then sharply quit doing > it, at precisely the correct phase point, and open up the entire atom's > Faraday cage (the electron shells) to the passage of anything you wish. > Lenz's law takes over when you "stop abruptly" and applies to the entire > system -- not just electron shells, but also to the nuclei. That properly > done in the presence of a simultaneous strong external EM wave will give you > a self-oscillating, self-pumped barium nucleus. This seems to be VERY similar to the Searl magnets. They were magnetized with a weak HF current superimposed to the DC magnetizing current ! Maybe this is the way to go. What is the resonant frequency of the magnets ? On the Coler device it has been reported at 180 kHz. > A magnet so activated is > referred to as a "kinetic magnet." You can place a small piece of soft iron > shim stock so that it stands away from a pole of such a magnet, and the shim > stock will vibrate gently back and forth. You can leave it there for three > weeks, and it will still be vibrating. The FIELD of the magnet is now > vibrating." (Tom Bearden, "Antigravity, Kinetic Magnets, and All That" 1997) Well, ok. Somebody cares to ask Mr. Bearden how we can do this ? The description above means Mr. Bearden has seen this effect ! > I still not entirely sure how to do this, but it involves using the > magnetizer again, after creating the bubbles, to "stop abruptly" (using a > quick timed pulse at precisely the right "phase point" (which I don't know)) > the ba atoms so the external input coil can feed the 60 hz sine wave in. > Just to make things clear, I have not been able to do this part. > Magnetizing with AC and stopping abruptly is equal to magnetizing with a DC level at the point of stopping. Here is a description of the VTA device I found : The VTA consists of two 4" X 6" X .5" grade 5 or grade 8 ferrite magnets spaced 3 inches apart in the attractive orienta- tion, with the output and drive coils in between. The output coils are wound with 20 gage magnet wire. Their axis is parallel to the magnetic lines of force between the two magnets. The two drive (or excitation) coil axes are positioned at 90 degrees to the output coil axis. The VTA excitation coils may be driven by the VTA output voltage or a separate sinewave oscillator source. The "SECRET" to the machine is the process that "conditions" the magnets. This conditioning process determines the output frequency and also prepares the machine for operation. The same machine could be just as well "told" to output 50 HZ or 400 HZ. The conditioning technique is so novel, it is doubtful anyone would ever guess how it is done. Oscilloscope observation of the VTA output voltage waveform shows an apparently perfect sinewave that is not phase locked to the local 60 HZ powerline voltage. The VTA can be started by momentary connection of a 9 volt battery to the drive coils when the machine is operated in the self-powered mode. The operation is stopped by momentary interruption of power to the power coils. The VTA "likes" to always see a minimum load of 25 watts. Ideas ? Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 00:48:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11804; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:46:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:46:45 -0800 Message-ID: <348A7EBB.225F@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 02:47:23 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Charcoal-gas fuel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fQhiL2.0.Lu2.q9cYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Came across an interesting chunk of information about the Italians using a charcoal-gas fuel during the war...they claimed it cost only 5% of gasoline prices....what I have (along with some other weirdness) is posted at; http://www.keelynet.com/index0.htm click on Lost Tech #1 -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 06:35:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15600; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 06:35:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 06:35:14 -0800 X-ROUTED: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:32:12 -0200 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Shamal Message-ID: <348AB2F7.9DEC1F10@datacomm.ch> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 15:30:15 +0100 From: Martin Schmid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Review of the Zürich meeting / Re: Design News mag Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l1Pzj1.0.fp3.WGhYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robert Dowse wrote and I have to reply to this first: > > -- > Hi all, > > A trade journal for engineering designers called 'Design News' has started a > correspondence column. The first one asked for opinions on the claim made by a > U.K. company who are marketing magnets which are fitted to the fuel line in > your car and can increase power and/or efficiency. The company concerened > tested the idea out over 1 year on a lerge diesel lorry saving thousands og > pounds in fuel overthe twelve month. > > The current issue is asking for opinions and info on gyroscopic anti gravity claims. > > Amazing, tucked away behind the adverts for drive belts and lock washers! > > E-mail them with your view and maybe they'll expand the column so that > ordinary engineers become better informed. > --------- > Rob Dowse Hi Rob, hi list I just read the beg to the members of the list to publish anti gravity info. Sorry, I haven't anything to share but I ask myself if it was a good idea to send such to _that_ magazine anyway. They seemingly belief their published "test results". I personnaly tested such magnetic fuel conditioners Bob's writing about over a couple of tenth of thousends of kilometers on a 1800ccm diesel engine. Except for the seasonal fluctuations (summer/winter times, diesel with/without anti frost) and technical variables (type of tyres or age of the motor oil) nothing at all could be seen in the statistics. The companies selling their miracles with warranty depend on the belief and attention of their testers. The testers don't want to mess up the results and pay some attention not to accelerate too much and too often and not to drive too fast etc. That's exactly where the gain comes from and this can be proved quite easyly by installing a placebo in one tester's car. Now, in that magazine, they published a significantly successful test balance and therefore I'm asking if that's really a fertile ground to take up the seed. I think, there is no urgency to make ordinary engineers converts. If they did not awake yet and if they did not search for alternative sources it might be a futile investment trying to force them. I am also warning everybody searching for new answers in any kind of science to try to make their environment know/understand/accept what they're doing and what they may have found out. Just make it public where you know you're accepted to and if it's meaningful it'll continue its way ... easy ... Review of yesterday's Free Energy Meeting in Zürich, Switzerland We had here, in Switzerland, a meeting organized by an enthusiastc couple, Adolf and Inge Schneider, where they and some invited speakers could present the results of their investigations. The Scheneider's goal is it to build up a company named TransAltec to settle new energy products in the market with the help of selected companies. At the meeting, more than 150 poeple were present: Students, Managers, Engineers, Authors, Common People and Inventers. They travelled to Zürich from nearly everywhere: USA, Hungary, Holland, Germany, France, England, and Switzerland of course. Besides some local technical heroes, Jean-Louis Naudin and Nelson Camus were present, the first with a remarkable presentation of his lab experiments the latter with a questionable show of his fuel cell and theories. Besides my belief that Camus' Home Urine Power Plant (HUPP) is a working unit with unknown data, I hardly accept that he has a revolutionary knowledge of everything. Did you know that he worked for the CIA, that he's invented the first room temperature super conductive wire to replace ordinary copper, that he can - thanks to his complete knowledge of athmospheric processes - tune airplanes to repair the ozone hole and that he can tune you're car to pollute less and be much stronger by simply changing the battery? All this based on his observations on - sorry - seagull shit! I've been asked to produce his H2O2 generating battery and I explained that without serious tests, I'd never think about it. Yesterday, I could talk to one who has installed that particular battery in his car for two days. He said his car seemed to have become much stronger in the beginning but he wasn't too shure about that fact after having driven some hundred kilometers... I still insist on having this device tested and _measured_ for at least three months. Camus claims this battery being all together: a sort of HUPP, a cold fusion reactor, an oxidator and a fuel cell, looking at the balance being O/U - shure! Jean-Louis physically presented a SMOT ramp and showed some VHS videos and Real Videos from his web page. Unfortunatly he missed to present a solid state experiment such as TEP which would have been extremely interesting for the audience. It could see the dance of a hamel spinner and the electro gravitics experiments. Hal Fox (Cold Fusion at 5000VDC) sent us a well made video explaining some of the theory how to use electron clusters to accelerate pions to a target. We could see an experiment decomposing any organic compound by using hot steam (> 700°C) into "water gas", a burnable mix of gas similar to the gas coming from the carbon arc process. The wastes can be washed out and be recycled and the gas can be used to run the process (takes 1/3) or be used to run a fuel cell, examplewyse. The balance over the whole process is E_in : E_out = 1 : 3. Over unity only depends on the definition of the process... A plant to use the process on a bigger scale is just being completed. It shall also be possible to decompose nerve gasses and poison such as dioxine... The guy knows what he's talking about, be shure. We learned some about the growth of the Planets and the rule of neutrinos in an extraordinaryly founded and interesting speech of Prof. Dr. Konstantin Meyl. By using classical physics extended by the neutrino theory, he was capable to explain most (all?) of the O/U effects, the nonconstant half-life of _all_ radioactive elements (I say "C14-methode"...), the force which keeps the galaxies rotating at constant angular speeds and much more. I'm just reading some of his books. Maybe I'll find some interesting details for the list. A Hungarian member of the meeting (I'll find out his name) closed the discussion round by telling us, that after 13 years of research, they finally found and experimentally proved the existence of the previously postulated ether! They veryfied their results with many of the elder theories such as the relativistic and did not see any contradiction yet. He said they're working up their docu and will publish it in the first half of next year. After 17 hours of listening, looking and discussing, I was really pumped out. looking back, it is obvious that... ... every really serious engineer is tuned in to new physics. ... the public interest is much, much higher than expected. ... most of the inventors prefer to stay away from the public. ... most of the scene are paranoid. ... the classical industry is watching out for new markets, new processes, new ideas and _mentally_ young people! ... it'll take some years more until a free energy device can be introduced to the marked - they are not reliable enough! ... the internet is _the_ information source for everybody and essential for the future. ... a real scientific and social revolution is starting right now. ... without your work we would not have gotten so far and we would not get further! ... Jean-Louis needs a new camera... We are on the right way, I tell you.... Regards Martin Schmid 4 L GmbH Oberzeiherstrasse 1 CH-5079 Zeihen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 07:03:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA19599; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:03:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:03:43 -0800 Message-ID: <348ABC6E.6274@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:10:38 -0500 From: "Robert W. Gray" Reply-To: rwgray@servtech.com Organization: P.D.Structures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Barium Ferrite Mags Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3iega2.0.3o4.DhhYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As I said, I am just starting to investigate the VTA... So, lets start with a basic question... Where can I purchase Barium Ferrite Magnets?!!! I have spent a *lot* of time calling magnet manufactures in the U.S.A. No one has any. I found one company that told me that Barium Ferrite magnets are still being made in Brazil. On the web, I see that there are some companies in India that are making these magnets. But they only handle $1,000 orders, not just a couple of magnets. So *please*, someone post the name *and phone number*, and/or web address, of a company from which I can buy Barium Ferrite magnets. And if you knonw the cost (from ordering these magnets yourself) include that info as well. Thanks, Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 07:30:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09784; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:30:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:30:31 -0800 (PST) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Retracing Maxwell Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 21:11:52 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: Lines: 16 Resent-Message-ID: <"2x0Mb1.0.mO2.K4iYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The November 1997 issue of "Microwaves & RF" has "Excerpts from a rare biography provide important insights into the life of the man known as the finest physicist of the 19th century: Retracing Key Moments In the Life Of Maxwell". Though you might find of interest. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 10:07:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20418; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:06:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:06:27 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19861208104621.006a2244@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1986 12:55:05 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Charcoal-gas fuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"arLgT1.0.v-4.XMkYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:47 AM 12/7/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Folks! > >Came across an interesting chunk of information about the Italians using >a charcoal-gas fuel during the war...they claimed it cost only 5% of >gasoline prices....what I have (along with some other weirdness) is >posted at; http://www.keelynet.com/index0.htm click on Lost Tech #1 >-- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 > >If you can get a hold of some old "Mother Earth News" magazine from the late 80's they had several articles including step by step instructions for converting a car that can run on such gas or anything that could be burned like wood.It was basically an airtight wood stove mounted in the car and the smoke was filtered and cleaned and then piped into the carb. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 11:49:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05444; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:49:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:49:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199712071948.TAA03240@mail.iol.ie> Reply-To: From: "gnlodge" To: "freenrg" Subject: Barium Ferrite Magnet Source Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:29:56 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q0_bp3.0.vK1.kslYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>"So *please*, someone post the name *and phone number*, and/or >>web address, of a company from which I can buy Barium Ferrite >>magnets. And if you knonw the cost (from ordering these magnets >>yourself) include that info as well. >>Thanks, >>Bob Gray" I'm not exactly sure what you want, but you can get Magnets (minimum order value or 20.00 Sterling ) that are 20% Barium, 80% Iron Oxide from a company in the UK called Magnet Sales and Services Ltd. Address is 11 Ash, Kembrey Park, Wwindon, Wiltshire, SN2 6UN, and the telephone # is UK (01793) 488686 and FAX, 646 They are also a good source of proper sintered NdFeB magnets of various sizes and they will cut to length from stock also. Hope this is of some help, Bart. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 14:11:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA31280; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:11:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:11:31 -0800 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More about the VTA Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:10:45 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <348d69c3.43336854@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199712070143.XAA14581@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> In-Reply-To: <199712070143.XAA14581@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sH-0I3.0.Ve7.GynYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:35:52 -3, Marcelo Puhl wrote: [snip] >47.725 Mhz [1/(2 Pi SQRT(mu epislon))] Note that this actually has the dimension of length x frequency. [snip] >Mike Watson Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 14:11:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA31300; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:11:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:11:39 -0800 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:10:46 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <348e6bd6.43868846@mail.eisa.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eXcZD2.0.Ze7.HynYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:11:37 -0500, ralph muha wrote: [snip] >Are you suggesting that all this 'apocalyptic physics' stuff is >just a dodge, that he doesn't really believe it? Not at all. I think he is quite sincere in his belief. What I am saying, is that IMO he can't ask for investors on the net, but can ask for handouts. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 14:28:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28719; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:27:21 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:27:21 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <348e6bd6.43868846@mail.eisa.net.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:26:15 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Resent-Message-ID: <"OX0H_2.0.a07.7BoYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:11:37 -0500, ralph muha wrote: >[snip] >>Are you suggesting that all this 'apocalyptic physics' stuff is >>just a dodge, that he doesn't really believe it? > >Not at all. I think he is quite sincere in his belief. That's what I don't understand. If he is right, and we are on the brink of such a global disaster, then no amount of technology is going to help. About the only thing worth investing in would be a spaceship (but where would we go?). I am reminded of an ad I saw in an evangelical Christian magazine (about ten years ago, I think) for a company called 'End Time Partners'. They sold survival rations and their pitch was something like, "buy our stuff, so that when the rapture occurs and you're taken up into heaven, your loved ones who may be left behind will have food to survive the tribulations to come..." What's the point of investing in the future, if there isn't any? r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 19:03:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19312; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:02:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:02:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19861208220018.006a9ed0@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1986 22:00:24 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: clock Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-JfoJ2.0.fj4.KDsYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:17 PM 12/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:06:27 -0800 > ^^^^^^^^^^ >>X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net >>Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1986 12:55:05 -0800 > ^^^^^^^^^^^ >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>From: wood >>Subject: Re: Charcoal-gas fuel > >your clock is a bit off... ;-) I didnt think any one ever read the headers. I installed Windows 98 beta version. Recently I received a warning that it will expire jan 1 98 and it will fail to function.Due to the new file system they used Windows 95 will not still operate so I would have to reload my hard drive. Being lazy I just back dated my calender on the computer.I thought I picked a year with the same days of the week.Guess I was wrong. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 19:58:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00086; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:57:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:57:54 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971208115727.006d01e4@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 11:57:27 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: ML converter ? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hqEpp1.0.21.01tYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace H posted to vortex some old (~early 97) postings on Stanley Meyer stuff which included the following note :- >[major snip] > >At 4:05 PM 3/1/97, Norman Horwood wrote: >> >>[snip] >>Dr Nieper says that he will be in the States at Temple University, >>Phila, on March 17 and will be showing the ML converter running ou >>at a constant 3 kW indefinitely. Is it possible that Hal Puthoff >>will also be there and can report back to Vortex? I think that >>the sponsors of this event are Crestview Aerospace Corp., of >>Crestview, Florida, and that Meyer may well be demonstrating there >>as well. >> >>I'm confused, so any enlightenment as to who is Lewis Nasa and >>what is going on at Temple University will be appreciated. >> >>Norman > >[major snip] Anyone know what happened about the ML converter (Methernitha Testatica) on this occasion. Has Dr Nieper managed to reproduce the ML converter? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 20:45:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10397; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:44:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:44:58 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971208123933.006c559c@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:39:33 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: New Device In-Reply-To: <01bd01d7$19546680$104368cf@foo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Kv0eA.0.LY2.8jtYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grat wrote: >John said: >>Don't waste your time Grat. The only principle of operation I can >>see working here is gravity and weights. This type of device can >>never work. >Thanks for the reply, but what about the wheel that guy in the 1600's >made? Yes I have recently obtained John Collins's book about that and the evidence is certainly impressive that he did get something to work. However I would be guessing that he did something a little more sophisticated than just move weights around in a simplistic fashion. We are rather familiar with weighing machines in the form of a balance with weights at different distances from the pivot so that the opposing torques balance. Anyone noticed any anomalies in such devices? I hardly think so. This seems to be what you are hoping to find. At least you should try something a little more complicated like spinning a weight. There are refereed reports around that if you spin it one direction then it is lighter than if you spin it the other direction. So how about having spinning masses mounted on the wheel which turn with the wheel so that they are forced to be spinning one way on the way up and the other way on the way down? I reckon you've got buckley's but maybe thats better than nil. Another idea might be to magnetise them - again there are reports that un-magnetised coils accellerate faster than magnetised ones. >To me it seems that as long as the weights are heavy enough to push the >water back to the top that one side is always going to be heavier and it >will turn. The water also has weight and will push the weights back up (the ones near the bottom at least). In order to get the water to move over to the downward moving side the weight pressing on the balloon has to lose height. This height has to be regained sometime (as the compression bobs go round the end). Always it turns out that the energy gained = energy lost elsewhere. >BTW, that air powered one that your teacher told you about is the same one I >saw on a russian web page that gave me the idea. Too many problems with >water pressure, sealing, etc. No problems with sealing that I can see - you just use the same type of balloon idea that you intend to do with your water-filled one but have air-filled balloons under water with weights squashing them. I think you will have a lot more trouble with water-filled ones as water is much heavier and builds up a head so that the bottom balloons will be bursting while the top ones hardly inflated. Also you have viscous friction losses as the water flows along the belt/tube. The losses would be much smaller with air in separate balloons. Since the idea has been around for probably at least 30-40 years, don't you think someone will have built it before now? Just that once they have done and it is a miserable failure they are too ashamed to say that they were even fool enough to try. >In conclusion I will still build it and let you all know the results. Since you are determined to waste your time, it seems I am also wasting mine! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 20:53:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17629; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:52:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:52:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:51:26 +1100 Message-Id: <199712080451.PAA25809@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"kWP5G.0.KJ4.KqtYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >It (MRA) cannot acheive over unity operation simply because it is a closed, >conventional EM system. > Having ceremonially exhumed my paperwork on the MRA, I do notice it incorporates a caduceus-wound magnet. Pardon the expression, a "scalar" field gadget. This seems to fit the criteria below, snipped from your other post. I also suspect there are some things that have not been considered, such as the correct physical orientation bewteen the BaTiO3 cap and the coil. Again, can you tell us exactly why this system is not potentially OU? Where are they making false assumptions, particularly in terms of componentry and its imputed function, according to your expertise? (snip) >Any device that gates virtual particle flux into EM energy should be >investigated > OK, now how about a few examples. Nearly everyone is claiming to do this. Getting general, I would say the effect is more like a pump. First a sympathetic resonance must be produced. Then you provide holes for the virtual particle influx. If this is done on an intermittent basis, electrons in a one wire circuit will see a spontaneously changing potential at the point of translation, resulting in current flow. IMO stability under atmospheric transients, and load, is the real problem to overcome. >Many people have made actual measurments showing >this is the case, and the MRA will not power itself, a huge warning >sign. > Many people have also tried to build an airplane in their garage. >> Well, everyone's got an angle. Do you know the relationship of Phi to a >> rotating tetrahedral interface? > >Its interesting to look at when these references were added to the >descriptions of the MRA, only once the testing methods began to draw >close attention and large ammounts of flack on >alt.sci.physics.new-theories. > >They were not originally part of the MRA documentation, and were added >later. > An optimist might say this represents a growing body of knowledge, or synthesis, not deceit. Are you suggesting this part of the operating theory is incorrect? Why? >A true beleiver? > >Bob Shannon > I am not prepared to burn every FE bridge on the basis of our admittedly incomplete knowledge. There are too many superficial points in common, derived by workers who have collectively put in a lot more time than us. In the interest of finding _something_ to believe in, maybe we can list a few and see where it leads. 1) Superimposed resonant fields 2) Harmonic relationships 3) Vector cancellation 4) Materials with spontaneous switching characteristics Care to add, subtract or ellucidate?? Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 20:53:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13161; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:51:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:51:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:51:23 +1100 Message-Id: <199712080451.PAA25803@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"KtDMV1.0.SD3.ZptYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >There has from time to time been some suggestion that asymmetric >acceleration of ions leads to tapping of the ZPE. Ions are present in >large numbers in batteries, but not necessarily in capacitors (depends >on type), so demanding that caps. be able to replace batteries, may >just be "throwing out the baby with the bath water". > >Robin van Spaandonk > We also know electrons don't go "through" a capacitor. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 21:15:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20698; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:15:15 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:15:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348B9E70.7F16@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 23:14:56 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Device References: <3.0.1.32.19971208123933.006c559c@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1bT92.0.J35.X9uYq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Grat! You know, the device you are thinking about testing might benefit from some of Wally Minto's ideas. The principle might follow...check out; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/minto.htm good luck and please keep us all posted. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 22:35:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29513; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:35:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:35:28 -0800 Message-ID: <348BB170.830@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 00:36:00 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: John Bedinis' Website References: <199712080451.PAA25809@nornet.nor.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dAYxE.0.1D7.lKvYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! I'm not sure if anyone has posted it, but recently, John Bedinis' server changed their name. So his address and links on other sites need to be changed to the correct URL. The old address was ; http://www.rand.nidlink.com/~john1 The NEW address is ; http://www.nidlink/~john1 If you know of anyone who has his link on it, I am sure he would appreciate your passing this change onto them. thanks... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 00:00:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA07570; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:59:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:59:55 -0800 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:59:52 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [off topic:) 12 days of Christmas (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/REPORT; REPORT-TYPE=delivery-status; BOUNDARY="GAA08433.881561465/november.diac.com" Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"r_-d4.0.6s1.vZwYq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --GAA08433.881561465/november.diac.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --GAA08433.881561465/november.diac.com Content-Type: MESSAGE/DELIVERY-STATUS Content-ID: Content-Description: Reporting-MTA: dns; november.diac.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; ns2.diac.com Arrival-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:11:03 GMT Final-Recipient: RFC822; boomers12@tdo.infi.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; region102.infi.net Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:11:05 GMT --GAA08433.881561465/november.diac.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 05:14:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04517; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 05:13:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 05:13:55 -0800 X-ROUTED: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:09:48 -0500 Message-ID: <348C1C70.E0D77E39@southconn.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 08:12:32 -0800 From: steve/paula Organization: Sisters of Silicon, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Device References: <3.0.1.32.19971208123933.006c559c@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <348C1671.D7D37FF6@southconn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NLP8k.0.T61.HA_Yq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John & Grat - just a comment...believe that neither of you are wasting your time...Grat will learn a lot about physics in doing the experiments and trying to get it to work....John, your time is not wasted because he will keep your comments in mind and in trying to disprove them will learn even more...so don't see how anyone is wasting time.....steve > > John Winterflood wrote: > > > > Grat wrote: > > >John said: > > >>Don't waste your time Grat. The only principle of operation I can > > >>see working here is gravity and weights. This type of device can > > >>never work. > > >Thanks for the reply, but what about the wheel that guy in the 1600's > > >made? > > (bunch deleted) > > > > > >In conclusion I will still build it and let you all know the results. > > > > Since you are determined to waste your time, it seems I am also > > wasting mine! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 13:12:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24167; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:11:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:11:33 -0800 Message-ID: <348C8CE9.3D40@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:12:25 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> <3487FF70.A30371D1@pavilion.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qf7Fk.0.Nv5.3A6Zq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ralph muha wrote: > > At 1:56 AM -0500 12/6/97, Bob Shannon wrote: > >If they really put out more energy than they used, you should be able to > >run them from capacitor banks rather than betteries, if this is the case > >for any given claimed O/U device, then this would be worthy of > >investigation indeed. > > what about the Hans Coler device? where does that end up on your list? Interesting question. I'm not sure what to think of the Coler device yet. As I see it, either it was real, or it was deliberate disinformation, which was very common in that historical context. Such deception was, and still is very much a part of war, but I know of absolutely no specific evidence either way in this case. If it was real, I can think of two other possibilities. Most probably, it operated by some process I have no understanding of, or, (less probably) maybe, this device produced some form of coherence in the Barkhausen noise of the coil cores. I've read that core currents can suppress Barkhausen effect domain transitions within that core, so I wonder what might happen if someone were to take the small current produced by a Barkhausen effect battery, and use that current to control the normally random transitions in a second Barkhausen effect battery core. This second core could pass a core current through the first, so the two devices were cross coupled. Could this feedback be enough to cause coherent oscillation? How much core current would we need to order the normally random domain transitions? I'd guess that the static magnetic bias applied to the Barkhausen effect battery core is a large factor here. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 13:27:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18945; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:26:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:26:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348C903C.12CF@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:26:36 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> <3487FF70.A30371D1@pavilion.co.uk> <3488F703.49B1@tiac.net> <3489c Status: O X-Status: f57.3799562@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5TULO3.0.nd4.8O6Zq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] > There has from time to time been some suggestion that asymmetric > acceleration of ions leads to tapping of the ZPE. Ions are present in > large numbers in batteries, but not necessarily in capacitors (depends > on type), so demanding that caps. be able to replace batteries, may > just be "throwing out the baby with the bath water". > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m1inj1.0.5p.ni6Zq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:26:15 -0500, ralph muha wrote: [snip] >That's what I don't understand. If he is right, and we are on >the brink of such a global disaster, then no amount of technology >is going to help. About the only thing worth investing in would >be a spaceship (but where would we go?). [snip] My own opinion on this is that if there is indeed a disaster as predicted, then we can expect centralised resources to collapse. I.e. No: Power, Water (dams will burst) Gas. If Charles can make small decentralised power units, then individual dwellings and small communities could still function effectively. Water might still be a problem, though rain water from the roof may keep you alive. Note also that with disruption to centralised water distribution, the chance of disease increases enormously. With a huge increase in disease and a shortage of resources, gang warfare will take over the streets. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 13:57:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24618; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:56:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:56:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712082153.TAA24829@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:56:44 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: clock Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19861208220018.006a9ed0@mail.wincom.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"GtS792.0.W06.2q6Zq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I didnt think any one ever read the headers. I installed Windows 98 > beta version. Recently I received a warning that it will expire jan 1 98 > and it will fail to function.Due to the new file system they used Windows > 95 will not still operate so I would have to reload my hard drive. Being > lazy I just back dated my calender on the computer.I thought I picked a > year with the same days of the week.Guess I was wrong. > Woody > Just get an older version of the io.sys file and replace yours. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 14:01:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24509; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:55:53 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:55:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348C971B.65CD@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:55:55 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA References: <199712080451.PAA25809@nornet.nor.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q6l-i2.0.r-5.Zp6Zq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter Nielsen wrote: > Having ceremonially exhumed my paperwork on the MRA, I do notice it > incorporates a caduceus-wound magnet. Pardon the expression, a "scalar" > field gadget. This seems to fit the criteria below, snipped from your other > post. I also suspect there are some things that have not been considered, > such as the correct physical orientation bewteen the BaTiO3 cap and the coil. These things have been considered. I spoke with Joel McClain at great lenght prior to the release of what we describe as the MRA. > Again, can you tell us exactly why this system is not potentially OU? Where > are they making false assumptions, particularly in terms of componentry and > its imputed function, according to your expertise? Remember that the MRA was built, and tested to death. It died a long and painful death only becuase it simple did not perform. Its been measured, and observed not be be an O/U device. It does perform in the same manner as a conventional switching power supply, with rather lower than normal efficiency. > (snip) > > >Any device that gates virtual particle flux into EM energy should be > >investigated > > > > OK, now how about a few examples. Nearly everyone is claiming to do this. > > Getting general, I would say the effect is more like a pump. First a > sympathetic resonance must be produced. Then you provide holes for the > virtual particle influx. If this is done on an intermittent basis, electrons > in a one wire circuit will see a spontaneously changing potential at the > point of translation, resulting in current flow. IMO stability under > atmospheric transients, and load, is the real problem to overcome. > > >Many people have made actual measurments showing > >this is the case, and the MRA will not power itself, a huge warning > >sign. > > > > Many people have also tried to build an airplane in their garage. Yes, over 70% succeed according to the evangilist from the local chapeter of the Experimental Aircraft Association. > >They were not originally part of the MRA documentation, and were added > >later. > > > > An optimist might say this represents a growing body of knowledge, or > synthesis, not deceit. Are you suggesting this part of the operating theory > is incorrect? Why? On the basis of personal comminucations with Joel McClain. As to the operating theory, I think this is disproven by the measured performance of the device. > I am not prepared to burn every FE bridge on the basis of our admittedly > incomplete knowledge. There are too many superficial points in common, > derived by workers who have collectively put in a lot more time than us. Good point! > In the interest of finding _something_ to believe in, maybe we can list a > few and see where it leads. > > 1) Superimposed resonant fields > 2) Harmonic relationships > 3) Vector cancellation > 4) Materials with spontaneous switching characteristics > > Care to add, subtract or ellucidate?? > > Peter Nielsen May I ask how you propose we create a system which is open to some external source of energy with these things? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 15:29:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11104; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:29:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:29:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971208172947.006a5220@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 17:29:47 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: UO-M^2T wound magnetics modeling program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BNTAf1.0.Oj2.zA8Zq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all.... The Univerity of Oviedo, Spain, sent a letter to me, advertising their wound magnetics modeling program. There is a demo version available at... It sounds interesting. Best Regards, Jack ---------------------------------------------------------- mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 16:21:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19396; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:21:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:21:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712090017.WAA29660@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: rwgray@servtech.com Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:20:41 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Barium Ferrite Mags Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <348ABC6E.6274@servtech.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"c_yyr3.0.rk4.ex8Zq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I have spent a *lot* of time calling magnet manufactures in the > U.S.A. No one has any. I found one company that told me that > Barium Ferrite magnets are still being made in Brazil. On the > web, I see that there are some companies in India that are making > these magnets. But they only handle $1,000 orders, not just a > couple of magnets. Here we go : SUPERGAUSS PRODUTOS MAGNETICOS Ltda. Rua Dom Aguirre, 607 04671-390 Santo Amaro, SP BRASIL Phone : +5511-548.6322 Fax : +5511-548.8516 They aren't on the Web as I know. If they don't want to sell only a couple of magnets, I could see if their local representative could do. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 18:13:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03858; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:13:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:13:27 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <348C8CE9.3D40@tiac.net> References: <3484770B.20292411@pavilion.co.uk> <34850BB3.3A65@tiac.net> <3485D905.A373D60C@pavilion.co.uk> <348635C2.4CFE@tiac.net> <3486F2B5.5F2512@pavilion.co.uk> <3487A8CC.F60@tiac.net> <3487FF70.A30371D1@pavilion.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:12:29 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"gK02X.0.9y.4bAZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:12 PM -0500 12/8/97, Bob Shannon wrote: >ralph muha wrote: >> >> what about the Hans Coler device? where does that end up on your list? > >Interesting question. I'm not sure what to think of the Coler device >yet. Have you read Aspden's 'lecture' on the Coler device? (http://www.energyscience.co.uk/le07.htm) >As I see it, either it was real, or it was deliberate disinformation, >which was very common in that historical context. Such deception was, >and still is very much a part of war, but I know of absolutely no >specific evidence either way in this case. > >If it was real, I can think of two other possibilities. > >Most probably, it operated by some process I have no understanding of, >or, (less probably) maybe, this device produced some form of coherence >in the Barkhausen noise of the coil cores. here's a quote from Aspden's 2nd page on Coler, (http://www.energyscience.co.uk/le07add.htm) which is a British Intelligence report on the subject. note the reference to the Barkhausen effect in sub-item (b) > (d) Concerning Appendix IV, this was the Report based on the tests at > (i) the Research Department of the Admiralty (OKM), Berlin, Wannsee, > between April 1 1943 and June 6, 1943 and (ii) at the Physical > Institute of the Technical University of Berlin, between July 1, 1943 > and September 25, 1943. The Report concerns essentially the tests made > by Dr. Frohlich. It was clear that he had his own theoretical notion > as to why the Coler device worked and he allowed this to affect his > experimental efforts and his conclusions. There are details of several > separate experimental projects. The following are quotations from the > Report: > > Apart from the great number of alternative arrangements and > connections between the different parts, - during the period > covered by this report eight different circuit diagrams were > tested in addition to the experiments above (This is a > reference to the four experiments reported in detail in the > Report) - the following so far unsolved problems are > hindering success in making the apparatus work: > (a) The influence of the pre-magnetization and of the > magnetizing effect due to the battery current, upon the > individual frequencies of the oscillating circuits. > (b) The influence of the Barkhausen effect on the phase > conditions of the oscillations in the individual circuits > and on the mutual magnetic and electrical processes. > (c) The influence of the movement of electrons in the > pre-magnetized steel rods by the high-frequency pulse-like > field variations, through the oscillations of the molecules > of the magnets. > (d) The behaviour of the mutual effect between the flat > coils and plates in a high frequency system. > > It is clear from the above (meaning Frohlich's summary > review of the Report) that the success of the inventor up to > now could only be due to chance or happy accident. The > necessity, therefore, arises to transfer the apparatus from > the state of empirical development, with sufficient > technical means and based on results of an exact basic > research, to a state of working procedure which can be > controlled. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 18:26:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01971; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:26:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:26:04 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34959ddb.25827529@mail.eisa.net.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:25:51 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Resent-Message-ID: <"P3nUo3.0.cU.wmAZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 4:47 PM -0500 12/8/97, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >My own opinion on this is that if there is indeed a disaster as >predicted, then we can expect centralised resources to collapse. >I.e. No: >Power, >Water (dams will burst) >Gas. >If Charles can make small decentralised power units, then individual >dwellings and small communities could still function effectively. So where will they get spare parts? No technology, even O/U energy sources, will be maintenance free. Look at Cagle's list of skills that will be needed to build his thing: (http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/skills.html) > Skills / Specialties Needed > > Process Control Design and Programming...Circuit Board > Design....Metal Fabrication > Machining....Electronic Power Supply Design....Power Factor > Correction Experience > Magnetics....Electret Design and Fabrication....Particle > Physics....High Current Switching > High Voltage Discharge Equipment Design....Plasma Physics....Gas > Micro-Flow Metering > Piezo-Tranducer Gas Nozzel Design and Fabrication....Hydride > Storage Tank Design and > Fabrication....Magnetohydrodynamics....In-Line Gas Micropump > Design...Gas Microvalve > Design and Fabrication....Fuzzy Logic Circuit Design....Fuzzy > Logic Programming....Load Sensor Design.... Anything that is that high-tech is going to need maintenance. After the big whatever hits, we're going to lucky if we still have windmills and waterwheels... Forget all those books on CD-ROM; I'd rather have a good shelf full of books on old, pre-20th century technology, since that will be a lot easier to build and maintain. r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 19:42:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14277; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:41:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:41:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348CBF58.6E1E@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 22:47:36 -0500 From: "Robert W. Gray" Reply-To: rwgray@servtech.com Organization: P.D.Structures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Barium Ferrite Mags Status Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WjRjV3.0.zU3.YtBZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is the status of obtaining Barium Ferrite magnets: 1) BM Magnetic Material (1793) 821048 The guy I talked to said I would have to talk to their people in Holland. He gave me a number for Bakker Magnetic 31-0499-474550. I called and didn't understand the language of the recorded message. 2) Anchor Magnets (1142) 441171 They said they have Barium magnets. And there would be no problem sending them to the U.S.A. They said they would send me a catalog. 3) MDL (1793) 766001 They also said they have Barium Ferrite magnets and that they would have no problem sending them out to the U.S.A. They will be sending me a catalog. 4) Swift Levik (1709) 560482 I didn't call them. 5) Magnetic Applications In the U.S.A. 1-800-437-8890, In England (1442) 875081 I called the U.S.A. company first (it being a free call to me.) The person I spoke to said that the U.S. office does not deal in Barium Ferrite magnetics. I told him that I thought the England company did. He said he would call England and find out. When I next talked to him he said No, England doesn't have Barium Ferrite magnets. So I called England. The guy I talked to said that they do have Barium Ferrite magnets. So I called the U.S.A. company again and told them what their England person told me. The U.S. guy said he would call England again. He hasn't called me back. And the England guy said he could not/would not send me a catalog. Well, that's it so far. It looks like we're on to 2 good sources for Barium Ferrite magnets. Call them if your in a big hurry. I'm going to wait a week to review the catalogs before I spend more money calling England. I'll keep you posted on my Barium Ferrite progress. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 20:20:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27009; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:19:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:19:46 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: <7ba675f5.348cc5d8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:07:12 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Is Greg Watson still active on list? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"6g-d13.0.ob6.WRCZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone know Greg Watson's situation right now? Is he out of town? ect. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 20:35:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22421; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:34:53 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:34:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:31:24 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712090431.VAA27153@smtp04.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: rwgray@servtech.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: Re: Barium Ferrite Mags Status Resent-Message-ID: <"HJOG02.0.EU5.hfCZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob, Thanks for the information, I will order the catalogs too. I am keeping my fingers crossed! How much infotmation on the VTA have you dug up so far? Thanks, Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 20:55:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01330; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:55:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:55:08 -0800 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:54:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712090454.UAA27208@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: New device Resent-Message-ID: <"f_XQO1.0.hK.hyCZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Grat and all, At 05:30 PM 12/4/97 -0800, you wrote: >I have been lurking for a while and have not had anything to contribute till >now. >a russian device i saw on the net using air and the contraption in water >gave me the idea. >I am going to build it but would like your input on it's feasability. >the water flows through flexible tubing and the balloon-weight units go all >around. >if this works you are all my witnesses on 12/5/97 >if it wont work please tell me why. >Thanx, >Grat Crabtree. To understand why this will not work, you need to study the device through a whole cycle. Look at the changes from one balloon going over the top to the next one. Yes the filled ones on the left will weigh more than the empty ones. But at the same time, the full balloon at the bottom is emptied as it starts to go up. This water has to move the same amount all UP the column to fill the next balloon on the top. This is where the energy comes from! In a lossless system this energy provided = energy gained, by simple math. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 21:19:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05288; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:19:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:19:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:19:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712090519.VAA23941@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: "Miracle motor suppressed!" Resent-Message-ID: <"hTFE4.0.XI1.dJDZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello everyone, In the Nov., Dec. 1997 issues of Electronics Now, Don Lancaster had articles on the Homopolar generator. He recommends connecting a LED on the rotor to see the voltage across the rotating disk, but VERY high rpm's are required to generate the 1.8 volts for the LED! In the Jan. 1998 issue he has an article on O/U motors such as the Grey and Adams. If you have Adobe Acrobat, you can see his articles on line at www.tinaja.com/pseudo01.html. Although he doesn't think any of these devices will work, he does give a good plug to www.keelynet.com. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 21:40:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10151; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:40:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:40:43 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712090519.VAA23941@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:40:18 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: "Miracle motor suppressed!" Resent-Message-ID: <"cpp6b2.0.RU2.PdDZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Although he doesn't think any of these devices will work, he does give a >good plug to www.keelynet.com. actually, he has a whole page of recommended 'pseudoscience links' at http://www.tinaja.com/scweb01.html Art Bell is at the head of list (why?), followed by Jerry Decker and Bill Beaty (you'll just have to try harder, Bill, you've got to get weirder than Jerry! ;-) r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 21:59:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13534; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:58:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:58:50 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:58:38 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Resent-Message-ID: <"l2b6Q1.0.NJ3.PuDZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos (Borderland Sciences, ISBN 0-945685-25-4, 347 pp) Contents 1. Luminous World: Baron Karl Von Reichenbach 2. Hearing Through Wires: Antonio Meucci 3. Earth Energy and Vocal Radio: Nathan Stubblefield 4. Broadcast Power: Nikola Tesla 5. Ultra Microscopes and Cure Rays: R. Raymond Rife 6. Endless Light: Thomas Henry Moray 7. Electrogravitic Engines: Thomas Townsend Brown 8. Deadly Sound: Gavreau 9. The Fusor Reactor: Philo Farnsworth 10. Mind, Fire and Thermodynamics Bibliography So far, I've only read chapters 2,3,4,7 and part of 9. You need a big grain of salt; Vassilatos is one of those authors who 'knows' what his subjects were thinking about (although thankfully he refrains from inventing dialog) and is able to turn the slightest hint of possibility into several pages of text... Nevertheless, it's very interesting reading... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 22:18:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA06367; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:17:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:17:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348CFE7B.AD7@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 00:16:59 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Miracle motor suppressed!" References: <199712090519.VAA23941@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ah5mg.0.NZ1.m9EZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave! About Don Lancaster, you know, he has a public personna that he must maintain but secretly, I think he is one of us....we all want basically one thing, a working overunity or free energy device (or gravity reduction) that anyone can build or buy.... He really is a nice fellow, we've communicated many times and he's always been helpful when I've had questions for him. I read his columns and have never taken any offense at some of the 'digs' at KeelyNet or at other sites which I know want the same things to happen....like I say (and he has said,) he has to work for a living too, so he has to publicly be much more reality oriented than we are.... I've seen some of the comments in the DejaNews where people come down rather hard on him claiming he targets KeelyNet....historically it will all become irrelevant if just one free energy or gravity control technology becomes a reality....it could happen anywhere, EVEN AT ZENERGY (a private joke), KeelyNet doesn't have to be the source...there are a lot of good people and good websites out there. I'll check out the January 98' issue and see how he did...if we could all cut him some slack when he gets on our case for being a bit too gullible or less discriminating, he'd be nicer......seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 00:09:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02387; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:09:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:09:37 -0800 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:09:27 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Our Christmas Gift to YOU! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"07sDM1.0.8b.zoFZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Our Christmas Recipe to you - from Steve & Laura (T.S.S.) 12/97 ** OVEN-DRIED JERKY ** It's been a while (12/1993) since we last sent this recipe out, So here's a recipe so good that while you're making it the saliva will drip off your chin all the time you're doing it, it smells so good.. the finished product has just two things wrong with it: 1) you eat it too fast & 2) your so-called friends eat it faster! Anybody can make the stuff, so my theory is to give them a nibble and when they want more, give them the recipe and let them make their own. This particular jerky can be made from beef-flank, brisket, lean rump roast or top round steak - venison or the white meat from chicken or turkey. Partially freezing the meat makes it easier to slice evenly. Cut with the grain if you want your jerky chewy, across the grain for more tender, brittle jerky. 1-1/2 to 2 pounds lean boneless meat 1/4 cup soy sauce (*I like Kikomon's flavor best) 1 tablespoon Worcestershire (*Lee & Perrins) 1/4 teaspoon EACH pepper & garlic powder 1/2 teaspoon onion powder 1 teaspoon hickory smoke-flavored salt (liquid smoke with pinch of salt ok too*) Trim and discard all fat from the meat (it becomes rancid). Cut meat in 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick slices. If necessary, cut large slices to make strips about 1-1/2 inches wide and as long as possible. In a bowl combine soy sauce, Worcestershire, pepper, garlic powder, onion powder and smoke-flavored salt. Stir until seasonings are dissolved. Add all the the meat strips and work them thoroughly into the mixture until all surfaces are well coated. (chop sticks or forks will do but I use my cleaned fingers:) The meat will absorb most, if not all, the liquid. Cover tightly and let stand overnight in the refrigerator. Or you can let stand one hour and proceed. Shake off any excess liquid, arrange strips of meat close together, but no overlapping, directly on oven racks or cake rakes set in shallow, rimmed pans. Dry meat in oven at the lowest possible setting 150 degrees to 200 degrees (F) Flip every hour or two - until it feels hard and is dry to the touch - 5 hours for chicken & turkey, 4 to 7 hours for beef and vension. Pat off any beads of oil. Cool and store in airtight plastic bags or in jars with tight fitting lids. Keeps in refrigerator or at room temperature indefinitely. AND, MAN!! IS IT EVER GOOD!!! Personally, I like garlic buds the best- if you have one of those herb mortar and pestle things of glass, metal or ceramic, mash up a finely diced garlic bud with the pepper, onion powder and hickory- smoked salt until it is a greyish mess. To this add the liquids and proceed. Such food is the greatest on hunting and fishing trips - nothing but highly flavored protein - and for nibbling on when reading books at home or watching ball games - or anytime, it is the best there is. -Steve Ekwall & Laura Conlon- ** Merry Christmas World 1997 :) ** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 00:57:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10544; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:57:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:57:39 -0800 X-ROUTED: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:55:34 -0200 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Shamal Message-ID: <348D077D.3ED1DAB2@datacomm.ch> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 09:55:25 +0100 From: Martin Schmid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Winterflood , "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Review of the Zürich meeting / Re: Design News mag References: <3.0.1.32.19971208114512.006cf020@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jH0su2.0.aa2.2WGZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John I'd like to know much more myself but Banhegy Zsolt, the President of the University of Budapest (to be verified), did not want to tell much more to the public yet. I didn't catch up more than they've used lasers and (reflective?) targets and succeeded in exiting the empty room. That's what I inter- preted from all the small bits he told us. It's just too speculative right now... best regards, Martin > I would really appreciate any more info you can offer on this one > Martin. Post to the list or privately as you please. > > Thanks > John Winterflood From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 01:48:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29316; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:48:46 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:48:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712090947.KAA37118@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 13:11:00 CET Subject: Ang.: ML converter ? MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id BAA29291 Resent-Message-ID: <"mi8BV2.0.z97.zFHZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Anyone know what happened about the ML converter (Methernitha >Testatica) on this occasion. Has Dr Nieper managed to reproduce >the ML converter? I cannot imagine that Nieper has been authorized to show the Testatika. That would be against the policy of Methernita. Nieper hasnt been able to reproduce the ML converter. Nieper does do mechanical experiments. As far as I know only Schuldemeyer has reproduced it. What is meant is most probably that Nieper will show a video of the ML converter. Regards, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 01:48:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17384; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:48:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:48:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199712090947.KAA36866@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 13:21:00 CET Subject: Ang.: Review of the Zürich meeting / Re: Design News mag MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mschmid@datacomm.ch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA17355 Resent-Message-ID: <"F_S-q.0.PF4.HFHZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2584 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >A Hungarian member of the meeting (I'll find out his name) closed the >discussion round by telling >us, that after 13 years of research, they finally found and >experimentally proved the existence of >the previously postulated ether! They veryfied their results with many >of the elder theories such >as the relativistic and did not see any contradiction yet. He said >they're working up their docu >and will publish it in the first half of next year. Please expand. Regards, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 01:48:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17426; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:48:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:48:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199712090947.KAA41552@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 14:54:00 CET Subject: Ang.: ML converter ? MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA17399 Resent-Message-ID: <"5xu6M.0.8G4.RFHZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry, a correction: >Nieper does NOT do mechanical experiments. Regards, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 01:50:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29508; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:50:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:50:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712090948.KAA38814@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:06:00 CET Subject: Ang.: ML converter ? MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id BAA29485 Resent-Message-ID: <"AnnGG.0.zC7.NHHZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Anyone know what happened about the ML converter (Methernitha >Testatica) on this occasion. Has Dr Nieper managed to reproduce >the ML converter? I cannot imagine that Nieper has been authorized to show the Testatika. That would be against the policy of Methernita. Nieper hasnt been able to reproduce the ML converter. Nieper does do mechanical experiments. As far as I know only Schuldemeyer has reproduced it. What is meant is most probably that Nieper will show a video of the ML converter. Regards, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 03:11:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28343; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:11:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:11:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199712091110.MAA41500@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:31:00 CET Subject: Ang.: Re: Review of the Zürich meeting / Re: Design News ma MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mschmid@datacomm.ch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA28324 Resent-Message-ID: <"oO-TO.0.mw6.FTIZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is good news. Technologies manipulating the aether have been suppressed so far (for example Russian experiments). The dogma that the aether does not exist has been upheld, and evidence to the contrary (for example Silvertooth's experiment) suppressed. Acknowledging the existence of the ether might bring technological progress... Regards, Anders _______________________________ Svaradskiller __________________________________ Emne: Re: Review of the Zürich meeting / Re: Design News mag Forfatter: mschmid@datacomm.ch på INTERNET Dato: 1997-12-09 10:01 Hi John I'd like to know much more myself but Banhegy Zsolt, the President of the University of Budapest (to be verified), did not want to tell much more to the public yet. I didn't catch up more than they've used lasers and (reflective?) targets and succeeded in exiting the empty room. That's what I inter- preted from all the small bits he told us. It's just too speculative right now... best regards, Martin > I would really appreciate any more info you can offer on this one > Martin. Post to the list or privately as you please. > > Thanks > John Winterflood From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 05:16:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA11348; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 05:16:38 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 05:16:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712091314.LAA15710@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:42:38 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Ang.: ML converter ? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199712090948.KAA38814@sdn5.csc.dk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"uN2Wu.0.7n2.pIKZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2588 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I cannot imagine that Nieper has been authorized to show the Testatika. > That would be against the policy of Methernita. > Nieper hasnt been able to reproduce the ML converter. Nieper does not do mechanical > experiments. As far as I know only Schuldemeyer has reproduced it. > And what were the bad/good results he obtained ? Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 07:29:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA30213; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:27:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:27:42 -0800 From: KURT_BENSON@NON-HP-Boise-om8.om.hp.com X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 97 08:27:15 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <"v0311070bb0b25a91765f(a)(091)206.243.174.18(093)*"@MHS> Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion MIME-Version: 1.0 TO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="s" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zjrjE1.0.uN7.gDMZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Author: Non-HP-rmuha (rmuha@minimal.com) at HP-Boise,mimegw7 Date: 12/8/97 7:25 PM >If Charles can make small decentralised power units, then individual >dwellings and small communities could still function effectively. Anything that is that high-tech is going to need maintenance. After the big whatever hits, we're going to lucky if we still have windmills and waterwheels... Forget all those books on CD-ROM; I'd rather have a good shelf full of books on old, pre-20th century technology, since that will be a lot easier to build and maintain. The Mother Earth News Book of Homemade Power, Granddad's Wonderful Book of Chemistry, Back to Basics by Reader's Digest, many of the "Foxfire" books. Knowing something can be done is more than half the battle. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 09:19:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26306; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:18:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:18:55 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mark@plug-in.com.br, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Ang.: ML converter ? Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:22:10 +0100 Message-Id: <19971209182210.3492a51b.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"XIDss3.0.rQ6.yrNZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:42 09.12.1997 -3, mark@plug-in.com.br wrote: >> >> I cannot imagine that Nieper has been authorized to show the Testatika. >> That would be against the policy of Methernita. >> Nieper hasnt been able to reproduce the ML converter. Nieper does not do mechanical >> experiments. As far as I know only Schuldemeyer has reproduced it. >> > >And what were the bad/good results he obtained ? > >Marcelo > Who is this Mr. Schuldemeyer ? Does he have an email address or do you know, how he could be contacted ? Would like to know, what results he got. Thanks ! Regards, STefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 09:25:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18153; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:25:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:25:08 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Greg Watson4s SMOT arrived anywhere ? Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:24:21 +0100 Message-Id: <19971209182421.3494a64e.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id JAA18119 Resent-Message-ID: <"x97E92.0.UR4.gxNZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I just wanted to know, if anybody already has received Greg Watson´s SMOT kit ? Mine is not here yet. I hope he will still deliver it in time for a perpetual Xmas ! :) Regards, STefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 11:15:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA30055; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:14:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:14:39 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: <60117852.348d984c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:13:14 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Breakthru in low energy fast switching for o/u Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_881694794_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"6d-iN2.0.PL7.UYPZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_881694794_boundary Content-ID: <0_881694794@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hello all, I have focused all my efforts on the design of a low inductance flux diverting switch(LIFD). After three weeks in the shop working with different designs in an attempt to divert the flux path in a switch with out induction coming into play, I finally got some positive results. This is what my test show. I first built a coil that was wrapped using two wires side by side with the wire ends coming out thru the center of the coil. I then ran current thru the two wires in opposite directions to each other. The induction was next to nothing, as the flux flow was in opposite directions and canceled each other out. There was still large magnetic fields present. I found that moving two magnets, one in each opposing field at the same time would cause an increase or decrease in potential energy (energy stored in the magnetic field), but with out any inductive time constant coming into play, because no lines of force could "cut" another wire or change the other wire's magnetic field, because the other wire was reacting in concert and forces were equal and opposite. The amazing thing was that the divertion of a flux path in a design with this coil incorporated, only took as long as the time to magnetize the new path in the ferrite. No inductive time constant came into play! Path switching was almost instant. Then the steel bar would fall away. This would mean that this switching could be used to turn off the repulsion in a spin balance overunity design (see note at bottom page). The previous thinking has been that the faster switching as RPM went up, would cause an increase in power used by the switch. This was due to trying to decrease the time constant in the switch coil by increasing the voltage, ect.. If my tests are correct in showing that the switch time is as fast as the time to magnetize and the energy to divert the flux path is indepedent of a coil time constant or inductance, and the only energy needed is the energy to magnetize a new flux path, this would mean that, as RPM went up the more overunity the device would become (SWITCH ON TIME BECOMES SHORTER, using LESS energy, but output of the generator section stays the SAME). See the attached file for theory of operation. I was wondering if anyone would test my theory to verify my results and give me some input. If inductance can be bypassed in fast switching of flux paths, then overunity can be incorporated in many designs. Please send questions should you have any. Thanks for your time, Butch LaFonte Note: see Stefan Hartman's home page for Werjefelt documents under, "updates", they will explain spin balance system. http://www.overunity.de/over.htm --part0_881694794_boundary Content-ID: <0_881694794@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: image/gif; name="BUTCH44.GIF" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: inline R0lGODlhkgLZAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8Hut1oS13nOt1nut 3pS93nu13oy13oy93pzG3s7e797n76XG573W563O56XO5+fv9+fn75y93nu11nOt3sbe77XO 5/f39+/v94S93u/397XW59bn78bW55zG587n773W797v797n997v9+f393O13rXW75y959bn 99be773e78bW7/f3/5S955TG3rXO763G5/f////39/f/987e987n963W55TG5//3/63O75zO 54y95///963W74y154S156XO72ZmM5lmM8xmM/9mMwCZMzOZM2aZM5mZM8yZM/+ZMwDMMzPM M2bMM5nMM8zMM//MMzP/M2b/M5n/M8z/M///MwAAZjMAZmYAZpkAZswAZv8AZgAzZjMzZmYz ZpkzZswzZv8zZgBmZjNmZmZmZplmZsxmZgCZZjOZZmaZZpmZZsyZZv+ZZgDMZjPMZpnMZszM Zv/MZgD/ZjP/Zpn/Zsz/Zv8AzMwA/wCZmZkzmZkAmcwAmQAAmTMzmWYAmcwzmf8AmQBmmTNm 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12:18:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18778; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:17:02 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:17:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971209141700.006aab04@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:17:00 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Breakthru in low energy fast switching for o/u In-Reply-To: <60117852.348d984c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GZZr5.0.Eb4.tSQZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Butch, all.... At 14:13 12/9/97 EST, HLafonte wrote: > I first built a coil that was wrapped using two wires side by side with >the wire ends coming out thru the center of the coil. I then ran current thru >the two wires in opposite directions to each other. The induction was next to >nothing, as the flux flow was in opposite directions and canceled each other >out. There was still large magnetic fields present. When I first read this paragraph, it seemed that you were describing a bifilar coil. In that case the inductance is small because the magnetic fields cancel. Any magnetic field present would be due to imperfections in the coupling between the two coils. However, the magnetic field from such a coil should be quite weak. The drawing doesn't show a bifilar coil. I'm confused, but I'm probably missing something obvious. Would you please explain further. Best Regards, Jack ---------------------------------------------------------- mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 14:04:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06517; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:59:26 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:59:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348DDB45.2DD0@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 15:59:01 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Updateo on Sonic Waste Processing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fnhHx2.0.fb1.xyRZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Received an email from Ian Nagy about when their patent number would be released. Mr. Decker; Thank you for your inquiry regarding our patent number. I talked to our C.F.O. and he informed me that they have been advised by our lawyers that the patent has been granted. ..(snip).... the notification of the number could take up to six months from the granting of the patent. This would arrive then, within three months or so. ------------- If you are interested, updated information relating to this technology is being indexed and archived at; http://www.keelynet.com/ecology/shatter.htm -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 14:36:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12702; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:36:22 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:36:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348DC78E.3A104BB9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:04:54 +0930 From: Greg Watspn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" CC: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wMtds.0.D63.XVSZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, For the last 8 weeks, I have been holding discussions with a world wide conservation organization. A well known member of their group has recently visited my "Lab". They wish to fully fund further work to develop a home based 10Kw RMOG unit. A letter of intention has been been signed and the legal eagles are hard at work on the contract. A jointly owned company, "DMEC Research P/L" will be formed. At present there will only be two shareholders. Several points relative to you have been resolved during the discussions. 1) DMEC Research will own ALL my work & ideas. 2) My web site will stay up. 3) Updates to my site will be by the approval of the board. 4) I will stay in the Freenrg & Vortex mail groups. 5) Postings must be copied to the board. 6) There will be a public demo of a self powered RMOG unit in the second quarter of 1998. One matter still has to be sorted out. 1) The status of the SMOT kits will be decided in the next two weeks. A) Ship & accept NO new orders. B) Cancel the orders & refund the money. They prefer B, I prefer A. Will keep you advised. Best Regards to ALL, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 15:50:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25798; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:44:53 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:44:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:43:32 +1100 Message-Id: <199712092343.KAA01802@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Recreating the VTA Resent-Message-ID: <"gOcjv1.0.-I6.qVTZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >These things have been considered. I spoke with Joel McClain at great >length prior to the release of what we describe as the MRA. > Did he incorporate any of your helpful suggestions? >> Many people have also tried to build an airplane in their garage. > >Yes, over 70% succeed according to the evangilist from the local >chapeter of the Experimental Aircraft Association. > And, I suppose, the 30% that didn't were FE researchers. >On the basis of personal comminucations with Joel McClain. As to the >operating theory, I think this is disproven by the measured performance >of the device. > Doesn't necessarily mean the theory is flawed, only its implementation. I was hoping you might be more specific about why. >> In the interest of finding _something_ to believe in, maybe we can list a >> few and see where it leads. >> >> 1) Superimposed resonant fields >> 2) Harmonic relationships >> 3) Vector cancellation >> 4) Materials with spontaneous switching characteristics >> >> Care to add, subtract or ellucidate?? >> >May I ask how you propose we create a system which is open to some >external source of energy with these things? > In simple terms, you need a material that will switch large amounts of current with a small trigger input. It must be biased around the trigger point using an externally applied field that is not influenced by loading. This is achieved by making said material resonant and coincident with an induced scalar field. The gain results from virtual particle influx. Let cool and cut into small pieces. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 15:51:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA31473; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:50:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:50:55 -0800 From: MFergerson Message-ID: <2c1d83f.348dd4df@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:31:41 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"wXImB.0.fh7.TbTZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim Shaffer Jr. wrote: >> From: Robin van Spaandonk >> When will the patent office learn that they don't even have the right >> to reject patents just because they don't understand why they should >> work? > >It must depend on the examiner. Have you read the Hieronymous patent? >It says you can grow plants in the dark by running a wire from a plate >in their area to a plate outside in the sun, and other things straight >out of von Reichenbach. But it's a real patent, not an application. Actually, R. reads like H. In any case, the claims in the H. patent stand up to the harshest criticism possible; it actually works if you build it as described. It is also simple enough that just about anyone can replicate it. Try it yourself. I did. The H. device, however, IMHO, will not lead to O/U. It is a converter/transducer of some kind of energy (available in sunlight) to some "other kind"(?) (usable by plants). In the process of conversion, the energy obeys slightly different rules from those of conventional EM (tuning by lenses/prisms, conduction along bare wires). So get some seeds, boxes, etc. and give it a shot! Amaze your friends! Confuse yourself! (I did that, too...) Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 15:58:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27864; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:58:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:58:34 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: SMOT not shipping ???? :( Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:00:54 +0100 Message-Id: <19971210010054.35ffb37d.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"GwTAx1.0.Fp6.diTZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >One matter still has to be sorted out. > >1) The status of the SMOT kits will be decided in the next two weeks. > > A) Ship & accept NO new orders. > > B) Cancel the orders & refund the money. > >They prefer B, I prefer A. > > Hi Greg, come on, please let us have a perpetual Xmas and get us solution A ! We have worked long enough with you and supported you, so we would like to have the SMOT finally now for chrismas. Do you know, what your new guys are really up to ??? Maybe they buy you out and the invention will never come to the market... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 16:22:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07814; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:22:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:22:11 -0800 Message-ID: <348DE085.C59A5F5@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:51:25 +0930 From: Greg Watspn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" CC: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Smot Kits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k3Xpp1.0.nv1.n2UZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2599 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI All, The question of shipping the Smot Kits relates to WHO they will ship from. DMEC Research or ME. They will probably ship under the DMEC Research banner, that's what I want, but is not entirely my call. To ship under DMEC Research involves many factors. The options as I see them are as follows: 1) Ship under DMEC Research Banner (85%) 2) Ship under my name (14%) 3) Refund the funds (01%) Regards, Greg PS, Don't jump too quick to conclusions. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 16:31:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10259; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:30:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:30:52 -0800 From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: Re: new device Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:32:20 -0800 Message-ID: <01bd0503$13501ca0$044368cf@foo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="----------------------------"; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"NTjSg.0.6W2.wAUZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: thanks for all the comments. John, thanks for trying to explain, I guess I just need to build it.(You should have seen my enertialess drive experiment. No, it did not work, but I found out why.) Jerry, Guess what? I saw that page a while ago and scratched another invention off my list because I had the same basic idea when I saw that bobbing glass bird in the water toy and visualised one ten feet tall! Love your site, man! thanx, Grat http://grat.home.ml.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 17:05:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20749; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:05:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:05:06 -0800 Message-ID: <348DEA93.C182F74@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:04:20 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rwgray@servtech.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Barium Ferrite Mags Status References: <348CBF58.6E1E@servtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"K50LW.0.345._gUZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Magnetic Devices (1980) Ltd PO Box 100 124 North Shore Mail Cen Auckland, New Zealand 64 09 444 2606 They are just down the road and have tons of Barium Ferrite magnets! Robert W. Gray wrote: > Here is the status of obtaining Barium Ferrite magnets: > > 1) BM Magnetic Material (1793) 821048 > The guy I talked to said I would have to talk to > their people in Holland. He gave me a number for > Bakker Magnetic 31-0499-474550. I called and didn't > understand the language of the recorded message. > > 2) Anchor Magnets (1142) 441171 > They said they have Barium magnets. And there would be no > problem sending them to the U.S.A. They said they would send > me a catalog. > > 3) MDL (1793) 766001 > They also said they have Barium Ferrite magnets and that they > would have no problem sending them out to the U.S.A. > They will be sending me a catalog. > > 4) Swift Levik (1709) 560482 > I didn't call them. > > 5) Magnetic Applications > In the U.S.A. 1-800-437-8890, In England (1442) 875081 > I called the U.S.A. company first (it being a free call to me.) > The person I spoke to said that the U.S. office does not deal > in Barium Ferrite magnetics. I told him that I thought the > England company did. He said he would call England and find > out. When I next talked to him he said No, England doesn't > have Barium Ferrite magnets. So I called England. The guy > I talked to said that they do have Barium Ferrite magnets. So > I called the U.S.A. company again and told them what their > England person told me. The U.S. guy said he would call > England again. He hasn't called me back. And the England guy > said he could not/would not send me a catalog. > > Well, that's it so far. It looks like we're on to 2 good > sources for Barium Ferrite magnets. Call them if your in > a big hurry. I'm going to wait a week to review the catalogs > before I spend more money calling England. I'll keep you posted > on my Barium Ferrite progress. > > Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 17:20:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10872; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:20:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:20:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:08:31 +1100 Message-Id: <199712100208.NAA31268@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@mail.sa.ozland.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: R: Lester Hendershot add to my website Resent-Message-ID: <"9iDS51.0.if2.OvUZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:52 PM 11/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > I have just added some information,diagrams and photos to my geocities site. about a wind generator operating in the township of Loxton South Australia my home town and if you like to help me further promote my website and the search for free and other energy research please vote for it, by registering a vote with the vote button displayed on my main index page and that will take you to the voting site to do this,if you consider my site of some value to you Thank you in advance Geoff http://www.geocities.com/researchTriangle/Lab/1135 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 17:21:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11019; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:21:15 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:21:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:09:13 +1100 Message-Id: <199712100209.NAA31272@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@mail.sa.ozland.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: R: New photos and information Resent-Message-ID: <"ZvksT2.0.yh2.4wUZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:52 PM 11/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > I have just added some information,diagrams and photos to my geocities site. about a wind generator operating in the township of Loxton South Australia my home town and if you like to help me further promote my website and the search for free and other energy research please vote for it, by registering a vote with the vote button displayed on my main index page and that will take you to the voting site to do this,if you consider my site of some value to you Thank you in advance Geoff http://www.geocities.com/researchTriangle/Lab/1135 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 17:55:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00830; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:54:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:54:51 -0800 Message-ID: <348DF64F.2A7663E9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:24:23 +0930 From: Greg Watson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" CC: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: DMEC Research Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MWIBj2.0.gC.ePVZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Thanks for the many supportive posts. I am NOT giving up control, but if others invest money, they need to know their input (money & advice) has weight. Some points I can disclose : 1) I will not own a majority of the shares in DMEC. 2) DMEC will license the technology from a trust. 3) DMEC will own the marketing rights to any DEVICES developed, subject to the agreement with the trust. 4) I will hold a board position and be Director of Development. 5) DMEC will develop the PMOD / RMOG technology for licensing. 6) DMEC may continue to produce SMOT OU toys. 7) DMEC will develop a 10Kw 50/60Hz RMOG unit aimed at the home market. Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 18:45:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22188; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:44:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:44:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19861210195748.0069c940@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1986 21:39:45 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2fsuX3.0.ZQ5.F8WZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:58 AM 12/9/97 -0500, you wrote: >"Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos >(Borderland Sciences, ISBN 0-945685-25-4, 347 pp) > >Contents > 1. Luminous World: Baron Karl Von Reichenbach > 2. Hearing Through Wires: Antonio Meucci > 3. Earth Energy and Vocal Radio: Nathan Stubblefield > 4. Broadcast Power: Nikola Tesla > 5. Ultra Microscopes and Cure Rays: R. Raymond Rife > 6. Endless Light: Thomas Henry Moray > 7. Electrogravitic Engines: Thomas Townsend Brown > 8. Deadly Sound: Gavreau > 9. The Fusor Reactor: Philo Farnsworth >10. Mind, Fire and Thermodynamics > Bibliography > >So far, I've only read chapters 2,3,4,7 and part of 9. >You need a big grain of salt; Vassilatos is one of those >authors who 'knows' what his subjects were thinking about >(although thankfully he refrains from inventing dialog) >and is able to turn the slightest hint of possibility >into several pages of text... Nevertheless, it's very >interesting reading.. Hey how about a few more book reviews. It should be interesting and may save us some cash. Woody >r > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 19:33:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24450; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:32:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:32:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971210113221.006a2378@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:32:21 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Epitaxy In-Reply-To: <199712100103.RAA02436@pop1.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hi2nv.0.tz5.RrWZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert asked: >By the way, this is rather off-subject, but have you (or anyone) >had any contact with "Epitaxy" since he reported his successful >rollaround? Several people have asked about him but I have never >seen a response. I emailed him privately and the email was not rejected but I got no reply. So it seems he is not around to read his email or not in replying mood. One can't help wondering :- 1) Scott spoke of things going differently in his dreams than the direction Greg seemed to be going. I couldn't help thinking that Epitaxy was in a similar position of success and wondering where his dreams would lead him. Maybe he contacted a "world-wide conservation organisation" who then got him to shut up and quickly started negotiations with Greg? 2) Epitaxy doesn't sound like a real name to me. Does anyone know his real name. I guess it would be possible for someone like myself (in Australia) to obtain an email account with "localaccess.com" (Epitaxy's email vendor) in order to post emails from an apparently remote country? It could be used as a new and modern way to convince investors to invest! Only joking of course! So does anyone know anything of Epitaxy? Is he/she anyone's close friend? It seems like he/she has access to some nice equipment - diamond cutting saws to make glass SMOT track etc. Anyway Greg must have Epitaxy's home address in order to send him a SMOT kit! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 20:26:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09162; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:25:43 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:25:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348E197A.B179285B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:54:26 +0930 From: Greg Watson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" CC: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: DMEC Research & Control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a9qll1.0.2F2.3dXZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Thanks again for all the posts of concern. The technology, my SMOT / RMOG / PMOD research, is owned by my family trust. DMEC Research will license the IP (intellectual property) from the trust on a exclusive basis under very strict conditions. Failure by DMEC Research to stay with-in the conditions as set down by the trust license agreement will void the contract. I will not have majority share ownership in DMEC Research, therefore I can't force DMEC Research to void the license and return control to the trust in the future. Its all a balancing act. I am trying to get agreement to send the 5 verification/gift SMOT Mk4 units ASAP. Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 20:29:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09681; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:28:37 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:28:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712100427.XAA19968@gateway.minimal.com> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 23:27:33 -0500 From: rmuha@minimal.com (ralph muha) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic Force = Electrostatic Dipole Force Organization: minimal, limited Resent-Message-ID: <"HhGiw.0.5N2.lfXZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: : From: ralph sansbury : Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,sci.physics : Subject: Magnetic Force = Electrostatic Dipole Force : Date: 10 Dec 1997 01:01:03 GMT : : A current balance designed to demonstrate the force between two : parallel current carrying wires is used to demonstrate a force between a : current carrying wire and the edge of a parallel plate condenser; the : force changed direction if either the direction of the current or the : potential difference on the condenser plates was reversed. : This is of course contrary to the standard theory of electrostatics : and magnetics. The experiment confirms the theory that electrostatic : dipoles inside atomic nuclei and free electrons in current carrying : wires accounts for the magnetic force. (The size of the dipoles in a : current cayying wire is determined by the emf field causing the current : and inhibited by a force perpendicular to this from the dipoles in a : parallel current carrying wire for example). : The condenser was made of two narrow copper strips each 30cm in length : separated by electrical insulatiing tape .015mm thick; the width of the : copper strips and the tape was 1 cm. and the thickness of the copper : strips was .079cm.. : The condenser was attached by magic glue to a strip of balsa wood of : similar length and width and of .5cm thickness. Two dowels also about : 25cm in length were inserted into .3cm diameter holes in the 30cm strip : to form a U shaped structure. : This U shaped structure was put in place of a U shaped rod in the : current balance and each leg of the U was fitted into holes of conductive : metal ends of the dielectric bar. These metal ends were in the form of : triangular prisms and the bottom sharp edges of the prisms sat on small : platforms cut into rectangular columns about 3cm high. to a rectangular : dielectric bar also 30cm in length. The U shape was then approximately in : a horizontal position. : A metal rod passed through the center of the bar parallel to the two : legs of the horizontally lying U shaped structure; on the inside of the : U, the rod turned downward into a flattened square steel vane about 2cm : by 2 cm suspended between two horseshoe magnets; on the outside, the rod : was threaded and circular weights were placed as a counterpoise. In this : way the resulting square structure could be balanced accurately and : quickly stabilized in a horizontal position such that the condenser was : suspended with one long side edge parallel to a current carrying rod : attached at either end to columns inserted into holes at the top of 2cm : high rectangular metal posts. The distance between the moveable condenser : and the fixed current carrying rod could be adjusted from 10mm to zero. : A mirror was mounted on the balance bar tilts downward when the : condenser is pulled toward the current carrying wire. Viewing the in : focus reflection of the fixed lower conducting rod through a telescope : about meters away magnifies a 1mm downward movement of the rod or : upward movement of the reflection by a calculable amount. : With the front plate of the condenser 420 V positive wrt the back : plate and a 24 amp current of free electrons running the left terminal to : the right terminal in a 30 cm long rod fixed in place 3mm below the : bottom long edge of the 30 cm long condenser : the telescope image of the fixed current carrying rod moves up .025 : crosshair scale units signifying an approximate 1 mg force of attraction : If the above voltage and current are turned off and the condenser is : allowed to return to the 3mm separation and then the current and voltage : are turned on but the only the voltage on the condenser plates is : reversed or only the direction of current is reversed, then an .025 : crosshair unit downward movement occurs signifying an approximate 1 mg : force of repulsion. Increases in voltage and current of up to fifty : percent of these values produced linear increases in the observed : repulsions and attractions. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 22:39:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26410; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:33:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:33:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:32:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712100632.WAA13492@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: DMEC Update Resent-Message-ID: <"qL8bj1.0.YS6.5VZZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:04 AM 12/10/97 +0930, Greg W. wrote: >Hi All, > >For the last 8 weeks, I have been holding discussions with a world wide >conservation organization. A well known member of their group has >recently visited my "Lab". They wish to fully fund further work to >develop a home based 10Kw RMOG unit. A letter of intention has been >been signed and the legal eagles are hard at work on the contract. A >jointly owned company, "DMEC Research P/L" will be formed. At present >there will only be two shareholders. > > >Several points relative to you have been resolved during the >discussions. >.. >6) There will be a public demo of a self powered RMOG unit in the second >quarter of 1998. > Good luck with your DMEC venture. I never got my RMOG Mk3 to run in self-powered mode, but if you bring your RMOG demo to the U.S.A., or are just visiting, I would like to meet with you and/or see the demo! -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 23:49:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06266; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:49:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:49:22 -0800 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:49:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712100749.XAA14982@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Magnetic Force = Electrostatic Dipole Force Cc: redesign@pavilion.co.uk Resent-Message-ID: <"SlIXt2.0.lX1.0caZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:27 PM 12/9/97 -0500, Ralph Muha wrote: >: From: ralph sansbury >: Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,sci.physics >: Subject: Magnetic Force = Electrostatic Dipole Force >: Date: 10 Dec 1997 01:01:03 GMT >: >: A current balance designed to demonstrate the force between two >: parallel current carrying wires is used to demonstrate a force between a >: current carrying wire and the edge of a parallel plate condenser; the >: force changed direction if either the direction of the current or the >: potential difference on the condenser plates was reversed. >... This seems very interesting, but was hard for me to follow without a drawing. Was one of the capacitor plates used as one of the current carrying wires? Also, both Robert Dowse and I have measured copper to be slightly paramagnetic. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 23:56:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06415; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:55:50 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:55:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:55:04 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" cc: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Smot Kits In-Reply-To: <348DE085.C59A5F5@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sWdzo1.0.8a1.4iaZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Greg Watspn wrote: Hi Greg, what happened to your^^ name from your server? >>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:51:25 +0930 >>From: Greg Watspn >>Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" >>Cc: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" >>Subject: Smot Kits >>Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:22:10 -0800 >>Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com >> >>HI All, >> >>The question of shipping the Smot Kits relates to WHO they will ship >>from. DMEC Research or ME. They will probably ship under the DMEC >>Research banner, that's what I want, but is not entirely my call. To >>ship under DMEC Research involves many factors. >> >> >>The options as I see them are as follows: >> >> 1) Ship under DMEC Research Banner (85%) >> >> 2) Ship under my name (14%) >> >> 3) Refund the funds (01%) >> >> >>Regards, >> Greg >> >>PS, Don't jump too quick to conclusions. >> >> Greg, Congratulations on your DMEC Research company you're forming. Sounds good :) .. Do you personally think this will get the DMEC out in the world all that much sooner?? Hope so. We've all been following right along on the kits, and hope at least those 'special promised ones' will get to be sent out. Hope your new partners are movers and shakers. Best to you and yours -=se=- ffsmot'd :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 01:51:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19765; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:50:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:50:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199712100950.KAA34186@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:41:00 CET Subject: Ang.: Re: Ang.: ML converter ? MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, harti@harti.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA19735 Resent-Message-ID: <"S7MCM3.0.eq4.rNcZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Who is this Mr. Schuldemeyer ? A South African inventor, who (according to Marinov) visited Methernita, understood the machine, went home and reproduced and improved the machine. He went to South African electricity companies to show them the machine and get cooperation and funding. He became afraid of the nature of the interest the companies showed in his machine, and found it sensible to leave the country. For some time he drove around in Europe with his car and his machine with no publicly known address. For a period the Schneider family housed him and his machine. Then a Swiss company arranged that he could live in Switzerland, under a number of conditions, which included his silence. >Does he have an email address or do you know, how he could be contacted ? The Schneiders (Adolph and Inge, if I remember correctly) would know his address. Regards, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 01:51:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19791; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:50:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:50:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199712100950.KAA34198@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:43:00 CET Subject: Ang.: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, richard.wood@usa.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA19748 Resent-Message-ID: <"pRrBR2.0.6r4.wNcZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > 9. The Fusor Reactor: Philo Farnsworth I never heard of this. A few details, please... Regards, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 06:15:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10236; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 06:14:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 06:14:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348EA541.3259@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:20:49 -0500 From: "Robert W. Gray" Reply-To: rwgray@servtech.com Organization: P.D.Structures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Barium Ferrite Mag Info Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"9NU81.0.nV2.CFgZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from cyber3.servtech.com (root@cyber3.servtech.com [199.1.22.25]) by servtech.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA03527 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:08:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyber1.servtech.com (root@cyber1.servtech.com [199.1.22.8]) by cyber3.servtech.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11190 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:27:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost) by cyber1.servtech.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with internal id SAA27857; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:26:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:26:02 -0500 (EST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199712092326.SAA27857@cyber1.servtech.com> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="SAA27857.881709962/cyber1.servtech.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) This is a MIME-encapsulated message --SAA27857.881709962/cyber1.servtech.com The original message was received at Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:25:59 -0500 (EST) from tr2.roc.servtech.com [204.181.4.159] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mx1.eskimo.com.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown --SAA27857.881709962/cyber1.servtech.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; cyber1.servtech.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; tr2.roc.servtech.com Arrival-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:25:59 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; freeng-l@eskimo.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.eskimo.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:26:02 -0500 (EST) --SAA27857.881709962/cyber1.servtech.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: rwgray@servtech.com Received: from default (tr2.roc.servtech.com [204.181.4.159]) by cyber1.servtech.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA27855 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:25:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <348DD534.52FC@servtech.com> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:33:08 -0500 From: "Robert W. Gray" Reply-To: rwgray@servtech.com Organization: P.D.Structures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freeng-l@eskimo.com Subject: Barium Ferrite in the U.S.A... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, the guy I told you about from Magnetic Applications, U.S.A., (800-437-8890) who didn't know that their England company sold Barium Ferrite magnetics called me today. He said they only have 6 inch x 4 inch x 1 inch block of ceramic type 8. It sells for about $11.37. Minium order is $50.00. They also can get disk shaped Barium Ferrite magnetics, ceramic type 1, 25mm x 5mm. But no price was mentioned. He said he'd get more info for me, but these were the only 2 types of Barium Ferrite magnets they had. I am not impressed. Bob Gray --SAA27857.881709962/cyber1.servtech.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 06:25:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11850; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 06:25:22 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 06:25:22 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712100950.KAA34198@sdn5.csc.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:24:13 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Resent-Message-ID: <"blZZq3.0.2v2.EPgZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> 9. The Fusor Reactor: Philo Farnsworth > >I never heard of this. A few details, please... [page 319] "The true father of electronic television, Dr. Philo T. Farnsworth, found the practical key toward achieving hot fusion." [page 321] "While testing his high power UHF multipactor tubes in 1935, Farnsworth discovered a strange phenomenon... Suspended in the tube center, he sighted a tiny brilliant blue starlike point... By as early as 1953 he had conceived of a means for using the starlike phenomenon to produce controlled hot fusion reactions." [page 322] "The Fusor is no larger than a softball. In its center is the electron-radiating cathode...surrounded by a spherical anode...deuterium guns are symmetrically mounted about the anode ball...beam axes face each other and intersect at the tube center, firing ionized fuel into the reactive focus... Deuterium nuclei are literally hammered into the required density...by the process of inertial containment...produces an electronic pressure blast against the applied energy field... may be directly harnessed and used in external loads." [page 324] "Controlled self-sustaining nuclear fusion of tritium nuclei was historically achieved in 1965." [page 326] "ITT now holds the Farnsworth patents, and bears the social debt of responsibility for suppressing Fusor technology." [page 327] "patents 3,258,402 and 3,386,883 ... are textbook lessons in the fusion art. The design of the device which attained sustained fusion is elegantly simple and can be examined." Is that enough detail for you? r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 07:04:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24909; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:04:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:04:24 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:56:57 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bifilar coil question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"ICGbZ2.0.-46.szgZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, I need to get some opinions on the behavior of a bifilar coil. If the two wires having currents going in opposite directions are labled wire A and wire B, in the coil, then what do you think would happen if. 1. The coil is in a steady state, with current following. 2. Wire A is made an open circuit, and the magnetic field around it falls at a maximun rate as in a automobile spark coil. 3. Wire B has no opposing magnetic field now, and takes on a new configuration with respect to the way it's magnetic field is distributed around the coil. 4. Here is the big question, as this field moves into it's new configuration, is a CEMF or EMF induced into the coil (wire B) , or does the current flow in wire B stay at a steady state as it's magnetic field redistributes its self ? This is very important, I would like to get opinions on this. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 08:56:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11955; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:54:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:54:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:53:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712101653.IAA19410@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: OXYHYDROGEN [fwd] Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Y95ol.0.ew2.jaiZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those interested in hydrolysis or Brown's Gas, here is William Rhodes' original contribution to this field. Dr. Rhodes is still active in this field and those interested in more info should contact him directly as he in not on this list. William A. Rhodes Email: war123@aztec.asu.edu Regards, Michael Randall At 01:02 PM 12/8/97 -0700, you wrote: > > > >-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=- > FOR GENERAL RELEASE TO THE INTERNET >-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=- > PROOF OF DISCOVERY PRECEDENCE ESTABLISHED FOR GENERATION AND > SINGLE DUCTED USE OF MIXED ATOMIC HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN. >-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=- > >Was the second man on the moon entitled to the distinction of >being the first? > > The information below relates to my U.S. Patent 3,262,872 >issued 26 July 1966, titled, "Apparatus For The Electrolytic >Production Of Hydrogen And Oxygen And For The Safe Consumption >Thereof." Of the 10 claims allowed, 9 read variously >beginning in claim 2 through claim 10; "...outlet in said >cover for hydrogen and oxygen produced in said generator," to, >"and an outlet for said generator to conduct a mixture of >hydrogen and oxygen from said electrodes and said casing." >The nine claim references cited by the examiner are relevant >to the fact that this was the first issued patent using a >common delivery duct for both gases. The "et al" designates >the financier of the project who included the outboard alcohol >booster tank, Figs. 11, 12, qualifying him as co-inventor. > > Prior patents relating to generation of hydrogen and oxygen >from water are separately collected and ducted out of the >generator for delivery of H2 and O2. > > Perhaps the only reason such mixed gases were not discovered >and used before was fear of explosion. Exhaustive tests at my >laboratory revealed they were harmless compared with tank gases. >NIST and the literature contained no references on such atomic >mixtures. My instrumentation using the NIST WWV clock signal >proved flame propagation (velocity) rate is 8160 ft/sec -- mach >7.5, as compared to tank H2 and O2 being 680 ft/sec. Make no >mistake about it, mach 7.5 is not an attribute of burning H2 and >O2. Other stoichiometrically mixed gases revealing flame >propagation rates were Butane 60 ft/sec, and acetylene 330 >ft/sec. (Details of the setup for running such tests is >available upon request.) > > At this writing, maximum flame temperature is unknown. NIST >again said they had no data, and research into that is >proceeding. Already known is that tungsten melts instantly. >This confirms the temperature is significantly higher than 3,410 >C/6,170 F. Mixed atomic gas volume vs stoichiometric tank gases >will be determined. > > One day, an article from the Internet was discovered by a >friend and forwarded to me. It mentioned my second patent >3,310,483 of 21 March 1967 titled, "MULTICELL OXYHYDROGEN >GENERATOR", another single ducted mixed gas generator. The text >included the name of a Dr. Yull Brown of Australia, whose >U.S.Patent copy was obtained from the U.S. Patent Office. > > His patent #4,014,777 was issued 29 March 1977, eleven years >after my first patent 3,262,872 of 26 July 1966. My patent is >one of the references cited in his patent. He publicly has been >claiming discovery of a new gas called "BG" for Brown's Gas. >Inspection of his patent revealed single ducted atomic gases, the >same as mine. I went ballistic. In the early days, I lost a lot >through ignorance. But this? After regaining composure, I >reasoned there must be a logical answer. > > Since I generally ignored patent references cited against my >many patent applications, reserving them for my patent attorney >to study; on a few occasions I was guilty of such negligence >which induces me to forgive Dr. Brown. He might have committed >the same oversight in claiming to be the discoverer of a new gas. > > Regardless of claims to the contrary, my patent 3,262,872 of >1966 stands as the original discovery, unless an earlier >reference is found. > >William A. Rhodes Email: war123@aztec.asu.edu > >-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=- > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 09:59:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26934; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:59:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:59:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199712101755.LAA03505@vader.dhs.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:08:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"0VF0N3.0.aa6.fXjZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > [page 321] "While testing his high power UHF multipactor tubes in 1935, > Farnsworth discovered a strange phenomenon... Suspended in the tube center, > he sighted a tiny brilliant blue starlike point... By as early as 1953 > he had conceived of a means for using the starlike phenomenon to produce > controlled hot fusion reactions." Ah. The Multipactor stuff... I kept seeing mention of the devices in question and it never really caught my fascination like some of the other devices that were mentioned. Seems I may be looking a little closer at the things. > [page 322] "The Fusor is no larger than a softball. In its center is the > electron-radiating cathode...surrounded by a spherical anode...deuterium > guns are symmetrically mounted about the anode ball...beam axes face each > other and intersect at the tube center, firing ionized fuel into the > reactive focus... Deuterium nuclei are literally hammered into the > required density...by the process of inertial containment...produces > an electronic pressure blast against the applied energy field... may > be directly harnessed and used in external loads." Interesting. I am definitely going to _have_ to look into this. > [page 324] "Controlled self-sustaining nuclear fusion of tritium > nuclei was historically achieved in 1965." Any ideas as to what references to this that we can verify for ourselves? > [page 326] "ITT now holds the Farnsworth patents, and bears the > social debt of responsibility for suppressing Fusor technology." This seems to be a common theme (and sob story, if you ask me!) in the over-unity field. The technology is only suppressed at the commercial level. If the production of the device is relatively simple, it can be done by individuals with some small technical skillset. So long as they don't distribute or sell the devices, there's nothing that the patent holder can do to them. I don't care if the things start out being "underground" things- the more of them that we show to work, the more likely that the powers that be will cave and quit suppressing it as there's little they can do save reap the benefits of the mass-production and sale of the "suppressed" technology. This is WHY I like seeing patents of these things- they leave things out, but someone clever enough will be able to put the puzzle together anyhow and I'd like to see some sort of change. Soon. > [page 327] "patents 3,258,402 and 3,386,883 ... are textbook lessons > in the fusion art. The design of the device which attained sustained > fusion is elegantly simple and can be examined." I guess I need to make a trip down to the Dallas Public Library to see if the Patent archives go that far back. A question to Jerry or anyone else in the DFW metro area- does the archives set go that far back or will we need to do obtain the same by other means? > Is that enough detail for you? Definitely. Arrgh! Another lead for me to follow up on- I'm getting too thinly stretched for this stuff! ;-> -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 11:03:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25197; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:03:11 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:03:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971210130346.006a3e44@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:03:46 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Bifilar coil question Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4jJUw3.0.b96.iTkZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:56 12/10/97 EST, HLafonte wrote: >is a CEMF or EMF induced into the coil (wire B) , or does the current flow in >wire B stay at a steady state as it's magnetic field redistributes its self ? When A is opened, there is a EMF produced in B, and it's additive. The energy stored in the leakage inductance (that inductance due to imperfections in the coupling, and parasitics) resets into the opening circuit. Best Regards, Jack ---------------------------------------------------------- mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 11:57:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29103; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:56:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:56:51 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re:Newman Fan motor MPEG uploaded Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:56:09 +0100 Message-Id: <19971210205609.01b70d98.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA28986 Resent-Message-ID: <"nTIx43.0.d67.0GlZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From my visit at Joe Newman´s lab in 1987... http://www.overunity.de/movies/newmfan.mpg If you want to browse the directory: http://www.overunity.de/movies/index.cgi -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 12:41:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07488; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:40:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:40:40 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:32:51 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Better drawing, low induction flat plate switch coil Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_881785971_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"gN_ag2.0.tq1.6vlZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_881785971_boundary Content-ID: <0_881785971@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Stefan, and all, Does this help any? Comments, please! 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1997 15:35:23 -0500 Subject: Re: DMEC Research & Control Message-ID: <19971210.153529.6382.2.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <348E197A.B179285B@microtronics.com.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-10,14-15,17-21 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"6RGjG.0.Pt2.SwlZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:54:26 +0930 Greg Watson writes: > >I am trying to get agreement to send the 5 verification/gift SMOT Mk4 >units ASAP. > > > Hi Greg, I can't imagine why they would not approve...plans for the SMOT itself has been disclosed and openly posted on several web sites. Cleaned out three Radio Shack stores for magnets last week to build one myself (working on the track now). Nothing builds credibility faster that an sucessful public demonstration, even on a small scale. Hope it works out. Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 14:26:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02015; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:24:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:24:46 -0800 From: Ro Conroy Message-ID: <924533d2.348f1340@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:10:06 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"vb_di2.0.AV.hQnZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-12-10 10:35:18 EST, r, you quote: << [page 326] "ITT now holds the Farnsworth patents, and bears the social debt of responsibility for suppressing Fusor technology." >> If this is a 1965 patent, wouldn't any patent rights have expired and this technology therefore being in the public domain? Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 14:42:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07365; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:41:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:41:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199712102238.QAA04891@vader.dhs.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:51:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Neutronics Corp Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"JTi-F2.0.go1.YgnZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A while back, Jerry Decker put a reference to the Neutronics Corporation's WWW site onto his site in reference to a new type of computational device and what could be considered to be the possible first steps in producing something akin to Data in ST:TNG. Sadly, at the time, they were vague as to the nature of their Neutronics technology and they wanted a LOT of $$$ for producing a copy of the prototype devices- combined with a LOT of NDA BS. To me, it seemed to be a promising development and at the same time, a dead-end. Recently, there have been some glimmers forthcoming as to the nature of the technology- not vague things either. The following URL points to a paper done by someone at Texas A&M regarding the use of PNP transistors in "neutronic" devices. http://www.enticypress.com/papers/monolith.htm It's a nicely done paper that describes one of the key features of 'neutronics'- I plan on looking into the effect in question shortly. >From what I can see in the paper, a neutronics device is a charge blocking type device. P.S. Jerry the new URL for NTC is http://www.neutronicstechcorp.com/ -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 14:42:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07425; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:41:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:41:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199712102238.QAA04888@vader.dhs.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:51:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: DMEC Research & Control Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"6Fm7G2.0.Vp1.fgnZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I can't imagine why they would not approve...plans for the SMOT itself > has been disclosed and openly posted on several web sites. Cleaned out > three Radio Shack stores for magnets last week to build one myself > (working on the track now). Yes. I can't understand why they won't let the other ones be sold. I mean, there's nothing wrong with them, other than maybe tuning, right Greg? I just don't have the $$$ at this point (Will in a couple of months- buget's stink) or I'd be on that list for one of the production run. I was hoping to pick up one of the first 50 kits for myself. It's a piece of history to say the least that's worth a hell of a lot more than the $120US or so he's asking for them. Greg, why are they having a problem with at least the distribution of the 50 you've had made? I'd think it'd make some extra capital for the corporation you're forming- and any capital is better than none. > Nothing builds credibility faster that an sucessful public demonstration, > even on a small scale. Exactly. -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 15:27:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16290; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:25:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:25:53 -0800 Message-ID: <348F4F20.19C2@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:25:36 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DMEC Research & Control References: <348E197A.B179285B@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"J_GMY1.0.M-3.-JoZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Hi All, > > Thanks again for all the posts of concern. > Its all a balancing act. > > I am trying to get agreement to send the 5 verification/gift SMOT Mk4 > units ASAP. Greg seems to be in an interesting position here. Doesn't DMEC Research view your having accepted money for kits prior to the formation of DMEC Research as valid contracts? I'm sure that the laws of the countries each buyer resides in makes this a very complex situation. Would some long waiting kit buyers have legal rights to specific performance (getting their kits as agreed prior to the existance of DMEC Research)? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 16:30:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17420; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:29:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:29:45 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712101755.LAA03505@vader.dhs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:29:23 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Resent-Message-ID: <"Fr7Za2.0.2G4.rFpZq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frank Earl wrote: > Interesting. I am definitely going to _have_ to look > into this. I did a web search on "Penning Trap" which netted several experiments and papers on these types of machines. There's ongoing research at universities on this type of confinement for fusion. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 16:41:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13212; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:41:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:41:20 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712101755.LAA03505@vader.dhs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:41:05 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Resent-Message-ID: <"EU0e03.0.GE3.lQpZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:08 AM -0500 12/10/97, Frank C. Earl wrote: >I guess I need to make a trip down to the Dallas Public Library to >see if the Patent archives go that far back. A question to Jerry or >anyone else in the DFW metro area- does the archives set go that far >back or will we need to do obtain the same by other means? Even tho none of Farnsworth's patents are on the IBM server, if you search for them (by number) you will get lists of the patents that reference them. In particular, #5160695, "Method and Appartus for Creating and Controlling Nuclear Fusion Reactions," issued Nov. 3, '92 to Robert Bussard (Manassas VA) and assigned to QED, Inc., (Greenbelt MD), is very interesting... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 16:50:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16290; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:25:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:25:53 -0800 Message-ID: <348F4F20.19C2@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:25:36 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DMEC Research & Control References: <348E197A.B179285B@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"J_GMY1.0.M-3.-JoZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Hi All, > > Thanks again for all the posts of concern. > Its all a balancing act. > > I am trying to get agreement to send the 5 verification/gift SMOT Mk4 > units ASAP. Greg seems to be in an interesting position here. Doesn't DMEC Research view your having accepted money for kits prior to the formation of DMEC Research as valid contracts? I'm sure that the laws of the countries each buyer resides in makes this a very complex situation. Would some long waiting kit buyers have legal rights to specific performance (getting their kits as agreed prior to the existance of DMEC Research)? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 17:44:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27499; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:44:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:44:25 -0800 Message-ID: <348F61AA.3EC0@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:44:42 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neutronics Corp References: <199712102238.QAA04891@vader.dhs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Bd2h31.0.Wj6.uLqZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Frank! Thanks for the updated URL...I remember that claim...will check it out and append the new url.... At this time, we are hot on the trail of discovering how the Orffyreus perpetual (self-running) engine worked....a friend read the book, in 2 days, he'd figured out what had been missed for 276 years...explained it to me and made my eyes water and my spine tingle...when you visualize it based on the clues revealed so far...it's all in John Collins new book, 'Perpetual Motion' about the Bessler/Orffyreus wheel....we are expecting to see a working tabletop see through model in 1998...and its SCALABLE....only problem, since its gravity fed, works best in a stable position.....the game is afoot! TOMI morphed to SMOT, neither self-ran...Orffyreus will....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 17:53:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29349; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:52:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:52:16 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:52:52 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: INE Adv. Energy Website Has Been Updated on Dec. 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"gpEUZ3.0.OA7.ETqZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All the revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Dec. 10, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 5, No. 8, December 1997 Our 1997 Holiday Season's Gift To You John Bockris Letter Of Interest To All on Cold Fusion First Lent-1 Gamma Spectra Honesty On The Internet By Mitchell Swartz Antigravity News And Space Drive Technology And Their Website Good Info To Pass On, And On, And On (Dr. C. L. Olson) The ZPE News Blackout - A National Shame Listen To The Cosmic Connection (Audiotape) Mysterious Magnetic Spinner (Experiment) New Energy News: Bibliography On Disk (Product) Low-Energy Nuclear Transmutation Kit: LENT-1 (Product) Videotape: Free Energy: The Race To Zero Point Advertising Rates For New Energy News Updated: Updated Edward Lewis's file (ELEWIS11.html). The Levitron websites, and other websites were added. Authors Index, Subjects Index. Products Page. People, Addresses and Data. Organizations, Addresses and Data. Site counter = 181,160. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 16:34:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11777 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:34:50 -0800 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:34:50 -0800 X-Envelope-From: herman@antioch-college.edu Tue Dec 9 16:34:45 1997 Received: from antioch-college.edu (college.antioch-college.edu [192.131.123.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA11731; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:34:44 -0800 Received: by antioch-college.edu (SMI-8.6/1.63) id AAA13454; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:29:26 GMT Old-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:29:26 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Smot Kits In-Reply-To: <348DE085.C59A5F5@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Dear Greg, I am on your side... and ordering up! John On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Greg Watspn wrote: > HI All, > > The question of shipping the Smot Kits relates to WHO they will ship > from. DMEC Research or ME. They will probably ship under the DMEC > Research banner, that's what I want, but is not entirely my call. To > ship under DMEC Research involves many factors. > > > The options as I see them are as follows: > > 1) Ship under DMEC Research Banner (85%) > > 2) Ship under my name (14%) > > 3) Refund the funds (01%) > > > Regards, > Greg > > PS, Don't jump too quick to conclusions. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 16:39:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03801 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:39:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:39:22 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: Puthoff@aol.com Tue Dec 9 16:38:52 1997 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03692; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:38:48 -0800 (PST) From: Puthoff Message-ID: <9a435eea.348de00f@aol.com> Old-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:19:25 EST To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Update Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 12/10/97 12:10:00 AM, gwatson@microtronics.com.au wrote: <<1) The status of the SMOT kits will be decided in the next two weeks. A) Ship & accept NO new orders. B) Cancel the orders & refund the money. They prefer B, I prefer A.>> Greg, this is the time to make your stand, while the honeymoon is still on. If B wins over A, for the rest of your professional life you will have to fight for your ideas on every issue, and that can make you sorry you ever made a Faustian deal. Good luck, your vortex buddies are rooting for you. Hal Puthoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 05:28:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA06163 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:28:04 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:28:04 -0800 X-Envelope-From: zeropoint-ed@mercury.mv.net Wed Dec 10 05:27:57 1997 Received: from mercury.mv.net (root@mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA06120; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:27:56 -0800 Received: from [199.125.79.201] (cnh-1-09.mv.com [199.125.79.201]) by mercury.mv.net (8.8.8/mem-971025) with SMTP id IAA22352; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:28:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712101328.IAA22352@mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Update Old-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 08:36:58 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed@pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" , , cc: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA06120 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: >In a message dated 12/10/97 12:10:00 AM, gwatson@microtronics.com.au wrote: > ><<1) The status of the SMOT kits will be decided in the next two weeks. > > A) Ship & accept NO new orders. > > B) Cancel the orders & refund the money. > >They prefer B, I prefer A.>> I think it would be outrageous in the EXTREME if B were chosen. The selection of B will end your credibility -- among other things, you will be reneging on what you said right after hearing of Chris Tinsley's death. Chris (up there or wherever he is or is n't) will not treat you kindly ‹ nor will *IE* down here on this mundane sphere! Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. PO Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302 Phone: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 editor@infinite-energy.com http://www.infinite-energy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 08:16:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27537 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:16:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:16:47 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: Puthoff@aol.com Wed Dec 10 08:16:38 1997 Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.165]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27490; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:16:37 -0800 (PST) From: Puthoff Message-ID: Old-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:10:41 EST To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DMEC Research Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Greg, It would seem that none of this (considerations re the new DMEC sponsors) precludes your meeting previous commitments. If this logic were true, one could arbitrarily set up companies with shareholders and then walk away when a new shareholder came along with a better deal. If the peiole you are dealing with are legitimate, they will know this. If they want you to renege on previous commitments anyway, then they are the type of people you do not want to do business with, since surfacing that level of ignorance of business practice (let alone the law) at this level of negotiation bodes ill for the future when a lot more will be at stake. If they are willing to bend the law now, you know that if you're successful it's going to get a lot worse. Please take some time to think about it. Again, if you feel you need to do this for financial/development reasons, let us see a working kit and I can guarantee you that we can instantaneously (as in a day) beat their offer by at least a factor of 10, both financially and with regard to working agreements. There is no scarcity, so don't get railroaded or starry-eyed about false prosperity at this point. Best regards, Hal Puthoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 14:01:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29179 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:00:20 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:00:20 -0800 X-Envelope-From: zeropoint-ed@mercury.mv.net Wed Dec 10 13:59:25 1997 Received: from mercury.mv.net (root@mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28927; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:59:21 -0800 Received: from [199.125.79.193] (cnh-1-01.mv.com [199.125.79.193]) by mercury.mv.net (8.8.8/mem-971025) with SMTP id RAA20501; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:00:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712102200.RAA20501@mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: DMEC Research Old-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 17:08:30 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed@pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" , , cc: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hal Puthoff wrote: >Please take some time to think about it. Again, if you feel you need to do >this for financial/development reasons, let us see a working kit and I can >guarantee you that we can instantaneously (as in a day) beat their offer >by at >least a factor of 10, both financially and with regard to working agreements. >There is no scarcity, so don't get railroaded or starry-eyed about false >prosperity at this point. And let me add to that that our (Infinite Energy's) considerable contacts and supporters can do at least as well as that in about that same time frame -- a day or so. With EarthTech's supporters and our supporters, you'd have the greatest financial clout possible. All we need is ONE irrefutable SMOT in our hot little hands. We don't just publish magazines. We have arranged already to have large resources come in to fund the best techhnologies that will emerge. Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. PO Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302 Phone: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 editor@infinite-energy.com http://www.infinite-energy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 20:24:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA30042; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:23:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:23:33 -0800 Message-ID: <348F6C61.55BA@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:30:25 -0500 From: "Robert W. Gray" Reply-To: rwgray@servtech.com Organization: P.D.Structures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: More Barium Ferrite Mag (problems...) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q4wtp.0.JL7.3hsZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, I just (a few hours ago) called New Zealand... Magnetic Devices Phone: 64 9 444 2606 The person I talked with (head of company?) said that they do have *some* barium ferrite, but not that many. He said that they do not make Barium Ferrite magnets but they get them from other sources. He suggested I call a company in the US that he does business with. He knows that this other company gets magents from Asia and that I'd have a better chance of getting Barium Ferrite magnets through this other company. He doesn't know if they get Barium Ferrite mags. (John Berry, You suggested I try this company and wrote "They are just down the road and have tons of Barium Ferrite magnets." Any chance you could stop in some time and pick up a catalog or take a pen and paper with you and write down what they have? Just a thought.) I told him that in the States, no one is manufacturing Barium Ferrite magnetics anymore because of some regulations. He said he knows about this and that there is a push on to ban or regulate the manufacture of Barium Ferrite magnets in other countries as well. He also said that even if he (or any other non-USA company) sold us some Barium Ferrite magnets, the shipment might be stopped at the boarder and not allowed to be delivered. I am tired of hearing this kind of stuff about Barium Ferrite magnets. Does anyone know who in the government I could talk to in order to find out exactly what regulations are in place about Barium Ferrite magnets?? I need to know if we can get (legally) Barium Ferrite magnets into the USA from other countries. I think it would be very interesting to trace how the regulations on Barium Ferrite magnets came about. I'll try to contact the company in the USA that he suggested sometime later in the week. Next stop: Supergauss in Brasil? Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 10 20:40:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01572; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:40:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:40:30 -0800 Message-ID: <348F6885.46A6@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:13:57 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DMEC Research & Control References: <348E197A.B179285B@microtronics.com.au> <348F4F20.19C2@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QvxDl3.0.OO.zwsZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Thanks again for all the posts of concern. > > > > > Its all a balancing act. > > > > I am trying to get agreement to send the 5 verification/gift SMOT Mk4 > > units ASAP. > > Greg seems to be in an interesting position here. > > Doesn't DMEC Research view your having accepted money for kits prior to > the formation of DMEC Research as valid contracts? I'm sure that the > laws of the countries each buyer resides in makes this a very complex > situation. > > Would some long waiting kit buyers have legal rights to specific > performance (getting their kits as agreed prior to the existance of DMEC > Research)? 8 months ago when when I spent $200nz my income 150 it was implied that the kits were ready to be shipped delivery the next week ! long waiting kit buyers in my mind have funded SMOT RMOG DMEC Research and are DMEC Research owing to the fact that nothing has arrived I think Greg has sold my investment for thousands and wants to return less than than ..... never mind I have found a simpler way and like the teacher Gregs (return flux trick)I shall just have to keep it under my hat till im ready when DMEC Research & Control show there cards -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive EXPERIMENTAL RESEARCH From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 00:07:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA07186; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:06:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:06:56 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:06:51 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg W. and "Greenpeace" & Our Future In-Reply-To: <348F8233.6389@itl.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ri_vm1.0.7m1.UyvZq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry for the cross-listing, but Greg used both! On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Nick Palmer wrote: -snip- >>BTW, Greg still hasn't identified the "conservation organisation" yet. >>Short of the so called "Wise Use" movement in the States, which actually >>has links with far right militia groups, I can't think of any group who >>would act all secretive like this looks so far. Go on Greg, tell us who >>it is! >> There is a school of thought that suggests that if mankind is >>given access to unlimited energy, we would have unlimited ability to >>wreak environmental damage on the world. I believe that can be avoided. >> Clean energy such as the RMOG may, or may not, produce would, >>it's true, solve excess greenhouse gas emissions, and other types of >>energy related pollution, at a stroke but would also give us the ability >>to live comfortably anywhere on the planet, thus some of the current >>limits on population growth would be removed. A continuously growing >>population with a rising material standard of living would come up >>against the stops faster than ever. Civilisation creates other types of >>pollution and waste from the mining, processing and refining of the >>various substances/chemicals we need for our consumer lifestyle. >>Similarly for manufacturing processes. They also destroy wildflife >>habitats and waste non-renewable resources etc etc. As I have said >>before, if we use infinite energy responsibly we can look forward to a >>golden-green age of plenty. Get it wrong and we could screw up the >>ecosystems of the planet big time. The only sure way to know how much >>abuse they can take before bend becomes break is to "run the experiment". >>- are we feeling lucky punks? >>Nick >> Nick, Greg, Bill and ALL Nothing personal Nick, but I swear I have heard more and more that the NEA has been teaching your line of tree-huggin logic for years now. (sigh) I won't open THAT Can of NEA direction worms in this post, but suggest you keep reading and learning (own your own as best as possible OUTSIDE of some NEA agenda acadim.) quickly time is short -duh!! ------ Greg, I have followed your post since April or so of this year and was wondering if it is all public-domain. I would assume so and assume that If I were showing old e- I could set up a how it SMOT'ted from the start! This may be legal to you (hence I'm asking YOU), but this is not legally binding to ME and DMEC, RmxDg Inc(s) or Trust to be formed in the future. You have been VERY Open with your point by point construction detail in the past and I want to say THANK YOU and GOOD LUCK on your future endeavores with your new partners, I would like to see the vortex-l and the freenrg-l continue on however blind(ed) in your absence, but don't know for sure if Bill B. is curator legal or files, or if you are, of if public-domain rules in the DOMAIN. My assumption all along has been public-domain is the WINNER. I can remember in the early 80's sending out nifty tight coded 8080 assembly code programs (I thought, because I wrote it and was proud enough to send it along via BBS's FIDO and being amazed at how more tightly one guy could tighten up my loops, and yet another guy could expand i/o capabilty and still reduce the overall bytes of the finished code. THAT WAS THE BEAUTY of the 'computer Net' back then ALL the Brains, ALL the Individuals, ALL the effort was shared and NOTED! Then someone invented the term 'shareware'..(sigh).. and we now pay for our on-line connections like never before. (albeit faster??)..hummm. ---- So, Bill &/or Greg can we, (assumed), HAVE all old post text to spread to the world of the curious and those that could make it better, or should we hold off a bit for au.legal / international / sky is falling concerned? I want to be a cheer-leader here If I might, keeping this a constant arena of where to look for SMOT data good/bad working/failures trails and tribulations and wish everyone success in all their works. -=se=- Thought for Today: " Nothing has more lives than an error you refuse to correct." - O.A. Battista, Canadian-born author-scientist From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 05:43:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA11491; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 05:43:15 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 05:43:15 -0800 (PST) From: K easy Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:38:12 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bifilar coil question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"sL9E-3.0.Np2.nt-Zq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-12-10 10:07:36 EST, you write: << I need to get some opinions on the behavior of a bifilar coil. If the two wires having currents going in opposite directions are labled wire A and wire B, in the coil, then what do you think would happen if. 1. The coil is in a steady state, with current following. 2. Wire A is made an open circuit, and the magnetic field around it falls at a maximun rate as in a automobile spark coil. 3. Wire B has no opposing magnetic field now, and takes on a new configuration with respect to the way it's magnetic field is distributed around the coil. 4. Here is the big question, as this field moves into it's new configuration, is a CEMF or EMF induced into the coil (wire B) , or does the current flow in wire B stay at a steady state as it's magnetic field redistributes its self ? This is very important, I would like to get opinions on this. Thanks, >> Butch, If I understand the configuration, my comments are: As coil A is opened and the current falls to zero, a voltage is generated in coil B, but this does not change the magnetic field which was attributable to B. That component of the field changes (redistributes itself) only if the voltage generated in B by the changing A current causes a change in the current in the B coil. This would normally happen, of course, but after the transients all subside the end field from B would be the same as it was originally (with the total field the superposition of A and B). That is assuming you are not using superconducting coils, in which case things are more complicated. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 06:48:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16429; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:47:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:47:50 -0800 From: KURT_BENSON@NON-HP-Boise-om8.om.hp.com X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 07:47:34 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <924533d2.348f1340@aol.com> Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos TO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"eJTMa2.0.c04.Kq_Zq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: unless it has been re-issued, improved and re-issued, or extended. Kurt ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Author: Non-HP-RoConroy (RoConroy@aol.com) at hp-boise,shargw7 Date: 12/10/97 3:10 PM In a message dated 97-12-10 10:35:18 EST, r, you quote: << [page 326] "ITT now holds the Farnsworth patents, and bears the so cial debt of responsibility for suppressing Fusor technology." >> If this is a 1965 patent, wouldn't any patent rights have expired and this te chnology therefore being in the public domain? Bo b From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 10:00:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA21949; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:59:50 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:59:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712111756.LAA10116@vader.dhs.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:08:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"UZf933.0.nM5.De2aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > << [page 326] "ITT now holds the Farnsworth patents, and bears the > social debt of responsibility for suppressing Fusor technology." >> > > If this is a 1965 patent, wouldn't any patent rights have expired and this > technology therefore being in the public domain? Hey, looking at it *THAT* way, I'd think it'd be a good thing for us to follow up on the Fusor stuff then. Someone care to provide the patents online for public perusal and analysis? (I'm trying to locate them myself- if I get ahold of them I'll be more than happy to share.) -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 10:05:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA21973; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:59:51 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:59:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712111756.LAA10113@vader.dhs.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:08:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Neutronics Corp Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"rs9Ju2.0._M5.Fe2aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Thanks for the updated URL...I remember that claim...will check it out > and append the new url.... No problem. It always helps to have loads of eyes following up on this stuff- I believe it's WHY we have had, and then tragically lost all of this amazing stuff we're studying and trying to reproduce. > At this time, we are hot on the trail of discovering how the Orffyreus > perpetual (self-running) engine worked....a friend read the book, in 2 > days, he'd figured out what had been missed for 276 years...explained it > to me and made my eyes water and my spine tingle...when you visualize it > based on the clues revealed so far...it's all in John Collins new book, > 'Perpetual Motion' about the Bessler/Orffyreus wheel.... I've been a little leery of buying any books. There's a lot of scam artists and people who THOUGHT they had something to offer but were sadly mistaken. So, this one's likely to be for real? Cool. I might just buy the book afterall. > we are expecting to see a working tabletop see through model in 1998... Who's making the demo unit? Is he/she local to the DFW area? I'd love to see the thing with my own two eyes, if you know what I mean. I'd spell the end of one portion of this quest a friend of mine put me on when he told me about Keelynet and gave me the # for the BBS- and the beginning of another. (Once you have ONE device, there are other ones that are possible- and could concievably be used for motive powersources for things like cars, etc.) > and its SCALABLE.... Oh, this gets better and better. > only problem, since its gravity fed, works best in a stable > position.....the game is afoot! I don't see this as a problem- this sort of thing wouldn't be used for powering motorcars, etc. It would be used to power a generator for a house, office building, etc. Between that and it being a working "perpetum mobile" it would > TOMI morphed to SMOT, neither self-ran...Orffyreus will....seeya! Well, the jury's still out on the SMOT. I'm going to adopt a wait and see attitude for it all. As for the SMOT itself, Greg's graciously given most if not all the details for the Mk4 unit design. I think I'll be trying to duplicate that for myself and see. Thanks for the info and thanks again for providing your WWW site and BBS! -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 16:14:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA30589; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:13:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:13:00 -0800 Message-ID: <34909DA5.47F1@keelynet.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:12:53 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neutronics Corp References: <199712111756.LAA10113@vader.dhs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VpMJC1.0.jT7.A68aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Frank! With regard to the Orffyreus prototype...can't say...if you get my drift....but there are at least two people working on it independently that I know. The key player is one of us, wanting to share it with everyone and that's what I'm after....everyone gets it at the same time...the construction plans will be fully provided in the shareware format; http://www.keelynet.com/share.htm Locking in the rediscoverers name, details and an offer to make a contribution to future efforts...all copyrighted with the right to post in any media (print, whatever) in its entirety. 1998 should be MOST interesting....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 18:52:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA31213; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:52:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:52:28 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:51:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712120251.UAA25634@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Neutron Stripping To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"UkVVN3.0.cd7.gRAaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 12/11/97 The following are a couple of forwarded posts, to and from Tom Ligon regarding Mr. Eachus' ideas on neutron stripping. ======================================================================= 12/3/97 Tom, I am forwarding a couple of post from a Mr. Eachus regarding neutron stripping which he claims the is the mechanism by which your fusor functions and produces neutrons. If you and Dr. Bussard would care to address this I would be most appreciative. This Li + p reaction looks very similar to your p + B11 reaction. Thanks RWW ================================================================== > "The production of neutrons seems to be occuring in special vacuum >tube designs known as Fusors. The phenomenon is reminiscent of work >done by Tesla and Farnsworth. Tom Ligon has described and >demonstrated recent work with Fusors which is attributable to Dr. R.W. >Bussard." The production of neutrons with an arc discharge in deuterium is almost trivial. You can buy thyatrons that do just this. But the neutrons come from stripping, not from fusion. Robert I. Eachus ======================================================================= >Could you give me an abbreviated explanation of "stripping"? Even though the numbers seem to indicate otherwise, the proton and neutron in deuterium are very loosly bound. In fact, if you flip the spin of one of the nucleons, the deuteron falls apart. Now throw a beam of deuterons at an appropriate target, well below the center of mass energy needed to split the deuterons. You will get a high incidence of cases where the proton is absorbed by the target while the neutron sails merrily on its way. The path taken in most of these events is that the deuteron spontaneously (and virtually) decomposes, then the proton is absorbed by the target, releasing enough energy to more than bring the Heisenberg books into balance. For typical targets, the net energy released by the process is around ten MeV. (As I remember it, aluminium is an excellent target. Beryllium is better, but only because it contributes further neutrons, and Lithium is the best: Li7 + p --> 2 He4 + energy.) Significant neutrons from stripping have been seen with average plasma temperatures in the 1 eV range, but the actual particles involved are "runaways" in the 10+ keV range. Once upon a time a lot of effort went into looking for stripping reactions that produced net energy. (Bombard a thin target with deuterons, and dump the neutron beam into depleted U3O8. In addition to the 10+ MeV from the stripping, you get about 200 MeV of energy from each fast neutron that reacts with the U238.) The consensus was that the cost of the deuterium rendered it impractical as a (earthbound) power generation source, but very practical for use in spacecraft. Robert I. Eachus ======================================================================== ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:40:28 -0500 Richard, Regarding lithium vs boron, RWB and I were discussing this the other day. The p-B11 reaction should yield more net energy than the p-Li6 reaction, and the fuel is more naturally abundant (80% of natural boron is B11). However, the published data which show that all the p-B11 alphas are at two discrete energies turns out to be misleading: the second two-body decay is from a fast-moving body, which causes what amounts to severe Doppler broadening of the energy of the second decay alphas. The p-Li6 (hope I don't have Li6 and 7 reversed in my mind) reaction is a true two-body, with monoenergetic products, and it should be excellent for a direct-conversion system, though one of the products is not an alpha (He3, I think it was, but that's useful too!). If I recall correctly, the Li7 reaction is a bit dirty for our tastes. Isotopic separation of the scarce Li6 would be required. One need not be too greedy about energy yield and fuel cost in a nuclear system -- many possibilities are so much better than burning dinosaurs that a little deficit in reaction crossection or yield is a mere quibble. Now regarding this seriously mis-informed Mr. Eachus, who evidently has not considered the Fusor for what it is, but thinks it is some relatively cold gas discharge machine: he simply is not paying attention. He may also have been hampered somewhat by some inaccuracies in the writeup in ESJ, plus a great deal of information they did not convey. The Fusor is a spherical variant of a linear accelerator. It operates with the grids at tens of thousands of volts. It is NOT a thyratron with a plasma temperature of less than a hundred volts, it is not a Correa PAGD machine running at a few hundred volts, and it is not a CF device. If I understand "neutron stripping", it is the rough equivalent of kicking a Coke machine to see if it will drop a poorly-held can, when the correct approach is to drop in a couple of quarters and push the button: the Fusor ain't neutron stripping either - the target is NOT a solid metal, but is the other fuel species present, i.e if using straight deuterium, the reactions are classical D-D. Possibly there is a little stripping in the grids, but it is, as Eachus says, minimal. The grids used are typically 95-98% "transparent", and the goal is to minimize grid collisions. To quote a well-known conversion factor from the NRL Plasma Formulary: one electron volt (the energy from accelerating a particle of one electron charge through an electric field of one volt) is the equivalent of 11604 degrees K! Thus, a 10kV toy fusor will accelerate hydrogen ions to 116,040,000 degrees -- right in the ballpark of the target temperatures for breakeven DT fusion, and well within the useful crossection for DD fusion research. The neat thing about Fusors, and the big difference between them and "thermonuclear" approaches, is that the plasma is NOT at temperature in the same sense as a tokamak or ICF device. The plasma is not at a randomized "Maxwellian" distribution of particle energies. The ions are converging on a small region in the middle of the machine with a virtually mono-energetic energy distribution, with ALL PARTICLES AT FUSION ENERGIES, and with a much better proportion of head-on collisions than the thermal machines achieve. The critical thing is not "temperature", but particle kinetic energy, and, in fact, DOE researchers express temperature in degrees only to impress the public, but use eV for their actual calculation. The machines I have built, and which Richard Hull and I are building (target costs: $500-2000 depending on scrounging talent), should work at about this voltage (10-13kV) on straight deuterium, and are intended as minimal demonstrators. Miley and others typically run at up to 40kV. Hirsch, working for Farnsworth, ran at up to 150kV and published 1e9 neutron/second, and had unpublished results in the alarming range of 1e13 neutrons/sec. Recent researchers have published values of 1e12N/s. The neutron energy spectra have been measured, and they are the classical fusion neutrons expected for these reactions. The reaction rates are quite close to the values predicted by theory. Nobody who is truely familiar with these devices harbors ANY reservations that they do classical hot fusion. If Mr. Eachus cares to take well known and accepted numbers for fusion crossections out of the book, and apply conventional electrostatics and plasma mechanics, he should easily be able to prove to himself that the Fusor is a straight-forward fusion machine, based entirely on well-established principles of nuclear science and conventional physics. I am in the process of finishing an article for _Analog_ magazine, in which I am suggesting that lower-voltage Fusors would make a nice high-school science project. They are THAT SIMPLE! Surely, if he can motivate himself to take a fair look, Mr. Eachus is sufficiently knowledgable to do better than a high school science nerd. Having said all this, the obvious question is -- why has the design not been pursued? The answer is that Fusors suffer from grid losses -- the ions which fail to fuse on a given pass do not recirclate enough times to assure reaction. The Farnsworth/Hirsch design misses breakeven by a factor of about 10,000. Also, Fusors must operate at a sufficiently low density to achieve a mean free path adequate to assure the particles meet primarily in the central convergent focus region or immediately adjacent mantle region (lower density but very high rate of head-on collisions and at full particle energy), which puts an upper imit on their power density. The early researchers, though delighted with how easily the machines made fusion, could easily see the limitations. We think they gave up too easily. Tom From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 20:56:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09223; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:55:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: <116121bf.3490c31b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:52:36 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Your opinion Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_881902352_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"uwvQG3.0.yF2.8FCaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_881902352_boundary Content-ID: <0_881902352@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII All on list, Look at this and see if you agree that this flat plate coil would have very little if none, induction. It would have very little electrical resistance also. It would have a lot of flux on the sides surface area to put to work for diverting flux. It should have an ultra low time constant. The current flows thru the wires in parallel. The currents run in oposite dirrections (one side of plate to the other side), so magnetic fields cancel each other out with respect to induction, but they still have the ability to attract or repell a magnet, ferrite, other flux lines, ect., if the material is moved in as two pieces (one on each side) in concert. Do you agree with these statements? 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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:29:12 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Your opinion References: <116121bf.3490c31b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1wxQR3.0.XZ3.slCaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How large is the current going through the coil and what is the voltage? If the current is high and has a sharp drop and if the voltage is low I think that there could be a Back-EMF of a measurable size given there is no capacitance or anything else to ruin the measurements. John Berry HLafonte wrote: > All on list, > Look at this and see if you agree that this flat plate coil would have very > little if none, induction. It would have very little electrical resistance > also. It would have a lot of flux on the sides surface area to put to work for > diverting flux. It should have an ultra low time constant. The current flows > thru the wires in parallel. The currents run in oposite dirrections (one side > of plate to the other side), so magnetic fields cancel each other out with > respect to induction, but they still have the ability to attract or repell a > magnet, ferrite, other flux lines, ect., if the material is moved in as two > pieces (one on each side) in concert. > Do you agree with these statements? > Butch > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Image] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 21:45:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA31911; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:45:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:45:19 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971211231357.00be8100@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:13:57 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Your opinion In-Reply-To: <116121bf.3490c31b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"995ul.0.Uo7.jzCaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, All... At 23:52 12/11/97 EST, HLafonte wrote: >Look at this and see if you agree that this flat plate coil would have very >little if none, induction. It would have very little electrical resistance >also. After looking at the .gif, I've concluded that what you have is a single turn solenoid. The wide conductor will reduce the resistance, but otherwise I don't think it will exhibit any special properties. As always, I reserve the right to be completely wrong. Best Regards, Jack ---------------------------------------------------------- "When all else is lost, the future still remains." -Bovee mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 01:56:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10233; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:56:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:56:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34912647.6ACD@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:55:51 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neutronics Corp (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) References: <199712102238.QAA04891@vader.dhs.com> <3.0.1.32.19971212125007.006a1260@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8vxUk2.0.lV2.9fGaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John! With regard to the Orffyreus wheel, there is more to it than meets the eye, note that the scientists and MATHEMATICIANS of his time also stated emphatically that it defied all KNOWN science....it is so clever...that is why Orffyreus said he was afraid to receive the 20,000 pounds from a buyer, only to reveal the secret...the buyer would probably kill him on the spot once they saw how simple it was.... Let's go ice skating and do some pirouttes....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 04:48:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24654; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:48:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:48:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199712121246.KAA27176@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:49:42 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Your opinion Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19971211231357.00be8100@palacenet.net> References: <116121bf.3490c31b@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"wgp3J1.0.116.3AJaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > At 23:52 12/11/97 EST, HLafonte wrote: > >Look at this and see if you agree that this flat plate coil would have very > >little if none, induction. It would have very little electrical resistance > >also. > > After looking at the .gif, I've concluded that what you have is a > single turn solenoid. The wide conductor will reduce the resistance, > but otherwise I don't think it will exhibit any special properties. > I think you will have a very low resistance and inductance coil with lots of turns to generate magnetic field. This could be very interesting to the PMOD test circuit. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 04:48:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24669; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:48:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:48:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199712121246.KAA27205@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:49:42 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Your opinion boundary="part0_881902352_boundary" Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <116121bf.3490c31b@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"j4srE3.0.K16.5AJaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > All on list, > Look at this and see if you agree that this flat plate coil would have very > little if none, induction. It would have very little electrical resistance > also. It would have a lot of flux on the sides surface area to put to work for > diverting flux. It should have an ultra low time constant. The current flows > thru the wires in parallel. The currents run in oposite dirrections (one side > of plate to the other side), so magnetic fields cancel each other out with > respect to induction, but they still have the ability to attract or repell a > magnet, ferrite, other flux lines, ect., if the material is moved in as two > pieces (one on each side) in concert. > Do you agree with these statements? > Butch > You can build such a coil with a PCB. Draw your "wires" on the PCB, make two boards and glue them on each side of the ferrite. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 13:10:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26114; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:09:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:09:44 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: <71b45417.34919f88@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:33:01 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Is a transformer with a near shorted secondary a high speed switch? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"37_zm3.0.oN6.IWQaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From Butch, In doing research on ultra low induction high speed switching for diverting flux paths, I have come to think that a simple transformer with the secondary going to an ultra low resistance/inductance switch may be the perfect combination as the CEMF produced by the flux diverson would be countered by the collapse of the magnetic field around the secondary. Will send Gif. Also will send drawing of entire o/u machine and operation discription. If a ultra high speed flux diverting switch that does not use more energy as it's switch speed goes up can be built, then overunity operation is here with all the power you could ever want. Also putting together my agenda (or lack of) with respect to o/u devices. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 16:49:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10408; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:48:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:48:44 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD071E.507685C0.kap808@europa.com> From: Steve Kaplan To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Neutronics Corp (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:51:58 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 40 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"UXrSk.0.SY2.gjTaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry: I'm interested in learning about over-unity devices that are simple enough for back-yard mechanics to put together for relatively little cost. Do such things exist at all, or are any in the development stage? Or are there even devices which, while not over-unity, are at least much more efficient than existing ways to power our homes or vehicles, that could be put to use by every day people who want to do something now to cope both with expensive power costs and machinery that pollutes the planet. This series of questions is, of course, directed not just to you but to all those connected with this discussion forum. Finally, is this Orffyreus wheel possibly the kind of device about which I am inquiring? Thanks in advance for any leads. Steve Kaplan -----Original Message----- From: Jerry [SMTP:jdecker@keelynet.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 1997 3:56 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neutronics Corp (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) Hi John! With regard to the Orffyreus wheel, there is more to it than meets the eye, note that the scientists and MATHEMATICIANS of his time also stated emphatically that it defied all KNOWN science....it is so clever...that is why Orffyreus said he was afraid to receive the 20,000 pounds from a buyer, only to reveal the secret...the buyer would probably kill him on the spot once they saw how simple it was.... Let's go ice skating and do some pirouttes....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 17:01:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03735; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:01:12 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:01:12 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:56:11 +0100 Message-Id: <19971213015611.0d167280.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"XJCg_2.0.Fw.LvTaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:55 12.12.1997 -0800, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi John! > >With regard to the Orffyreus wheel, there is more to it than meets the >eye, note that the scientists and MATHEMATICIANS of his time also stated >emphatically that it defied all KNOWN science....it is so clever...that >is why Orffyreus said he was afraid to receive the 20,000 pounds from a >buyer, only to reveal the secret...the buyer would probably kill him on >the spot once they saw how simple it was.... > Hmm, is it typical for the human race, that you want to become rich from a very clever idea ??? If he had put it public domain in the 17th century, he would be remembered today as the greatest inventor ! He did not and failed and today he is not known anymore and did not become rich... The same thing will happen probably to other inventors which hide their great findings. If you have a revolutionary device you have to put it public domain otherwise nobody will trust you. Seeing and rebuilding and playing with it IS BELIEVING ! Not hiding it and just only show it some skeptical people... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 17:42:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21982; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:41:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:41:44 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Open Letter to Greg Watson:Final word on SMOT Kit Shipping status ? Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:41:16 +0100 Message-Id: <19971213024116.0d3fbb4a.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA21932 Resent-Message-ID: <"Xy5vb.0.FN5.MVUaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Open Letter to Greg Watson: Hi Greg, I guess, it is finally time to ship the SMOT kits to ALL 26 persons on your list. You have kept your promises each week to ship it finnally in a few weeks of time, so you really prevented others to try hard to reproduce it cause we have ordered it and thought: "well we will get it in a few days, so why should we experiment on our own..!" This way you have kept many others who believed in you from experimenting for theirselfs with the SMOT things. So please let us finally know, if you will still ship the SMOT before XMAS or at which date or not at all...! I here with it am requesting a final offical valid word from you, so we know, what will happen, otherwise I might request a refund and will try to build something like this on my own. I don´t know, how others see it, but I have never expected to get a cloosed loop SMOT from the first ad from you, but just a working SMOT ramp... I had no time to buy magnets and parts on my own back then and just waited to get a working SMOT ramp... So, please ship something NOW, also if it does not work in cloosed loop mode... maybe I get it runnig over here with fiddling and tuning it... BUT PLEASE SHIP SOMETHING FINALLY !!!! Here is something I wrote earlier this day.... Have a look at this: >Hi John! > >With regard to the Orffyreus wheel, there is more to it than meets the >eye, note that the scientists and MATHEMATICIANS of his time also stated >emphatically that it defied all KNOWN science....it is so clever...that >is why Orffyreus said he was afraid to receive the 20,000 pounds from a >buyer, only to reveal the secret...the buyer would probably kill him on >the spot once they saw how simple it was.... > Hmm, is it typical for the human race, that you want to become rich from a very clever idea ??? If he had put it public domain in the 17th century, he would be remembered today as the greatest inventor ! He did not and failed and today he is not known anymore and also did not become rich... The same thing will happen probably to other inventors which hide their great findings. If you have a revolutionary device you have to put into public display otherwise nobody will trust and believe you. Seeing and rebuilding and playing with it, IS BELIEVING ! Not hiding it and just only show it some skeptical people... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 19:07:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03378; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:07:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:07:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:06:36 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712130306.UAA09219@smtp01.primenet.com> X-Sender: ajdubla@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ajdubla@primenet.com (AJ Dubla) Subject: News from AJ Dubla Resent-Message-ID: <"cdGEq.0.hq.RlVaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello, Just wanted to inform everyone of two things: 1) I have moved my VTA site to www.primenet.com/~ajdubla/vta 2) The Watson paper can do downloaded from the files directory Regards, Alan Dubla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 19:08:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18129; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:08:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:08:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3492181D.4B52@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:07:41 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neutronics Corp (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VcABs1.0.9R4.bmVaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve! Well, a working machine, that would be novel...... But, durnit, we're working towards that. A friend from Georgia was visiting last night and in out 7 hour discussions (we do marathons here in Texas), he said he knew Wally Minto and said his wheels WORKED. see; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/minto.htm for some detail. What amazed me, my contact said Minto had put a version of his wheel into two different automobiles that were completely powered by the rotation of these wheels!!! I was astounded as I thought temperature difference and size made all the difference with the Minto wheels, but he said he saw one of the cars. Another device that I think still holds great promise is the Richard Clem machine as at; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem1.htm http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem2.htm I have yet another document with the numbers indicating this machine did work which needs to be posted. There are still local family and friends of Clem who might be willing to provide more information. One clarification from the original story was that it was not a water pump (for fighting fires) but a hot asphalt pump that was used to spray hot asphalt on the streets for paving. Clem said this machine would continue to run for up to 30 minutes after power had been removed and only slowed to a stop because the viscosity of the asphalt increased dramatically with cooling. This is PURE SCHAUBERGER...there is something about causing mass to rotate to a certain velocity (in Clems case about 2000rpm) where it reaches some kind of critical point, at that point, where the mass had to be PUSHED before, now it begins to PULL on its own. There are indications that some effects change polarity based on size...for instance, magnets normally have like poles which repel...however, tiny magnets on a near molecular scale have like poles which attract. I've always visualized this as an X where the top of the X is a pushing force (north pole), the middle of the X is cancellation (the bloch wall/equator of a magnet) and beyond this center point, in the lower half of the X (south pole), it becomes a pulling effect that must be governed to keep from destroying the mass. (more later) --- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 19:22:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19425; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:21:58 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:21:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34921B4C.2BD0@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:21:16 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neutronics Corp. (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"A00i61.0.Ql4.KzVaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve! Wanted to finish the thought regarding what I think is a flipping of polarity between macro and micro conditions. I've always visualized this as an X where the top of the X is a pushing force (north pole), the middle of the X is cancellation (the bloch wall/equator of a magnet, also Keely's Neutral Center) and beyond this center point, in the lower half of the X (south pole), it becomes a pulling effect that must be governed to keep from destroying the mass. I wrote this up years ago in two papers called neutral1 and rpe. It seems to be a general pattern with all free energy and gravity type phenomena. The neutral file is at http://www.keelynet.com/keely/neutral1.txt and the RPE file is on one of the mirrors, if interested you can do a search for it using rpe.asc or maybe rpe1.asc, I forget the actual name. For right now, with the insights from our friend on the Orffyreus device, it has become quite exciting as the understanding continues to increase. There are concerns however, anyone who knows me, knows that I am not paranoid in the least, BUT, there is always the possibility that some weirdness might happen to impact the Orffyreus project. Personally, I would prefer to finish the diagram, then build a prototype before posting 'plans' that have not been tested. Note, these are FREE plans but what good if they are untested? The other option which would provide protection, is to post the plans AND go ahead and work on the prototype...this way, everyone would have all that we have, could be building their own, and it would be fun to see who got a working device first. Additionally, who gives a flip about what people say as to motive, the bottomline as has been practiced for years by many friends and by KeelyNet, is to openly share all information unless it is proprietary (someone else's inside research) or has to do with weapons (too many fruitcakes to post that kind of information). I am not the final arbiter of this decision (about posting plans before the working model has been completed) since there is more than one person involved in this. It will be decided in the near future and will definitely be posted on KeelyNet as well as to Vort and Free. But it will be freely shared as part of the KeelyNet ethic. Not to create an air of mystery or secretiveness, just have to CYA....Seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 20:25:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25022; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:24:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:24:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349229FA.4FB8@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 22:23:54 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) References: <19971213015611.0d167280.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"szIVl2.0.q66.2uWaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan! I am puzzled by your comment; >From Stefan Hartmann; > Hmm, > is it typical for the human race, that you want to become > rich from a very clever idea ??? tsk, tsk......and from you, a fellow I consider a comrade in arms, with a long history of being known as a true seeker who wanted to make changes and share the technology... I am hoping it was just improperly stated and not meant to imply that I or anyone working on the project had any INTENT of keeping it quiet for the purpose of selling it to the highest bidder....that will never happen. We don't have it figured out yet and what we do have is posted for downloading...my last post to Steve Kaplan explained the two options we are considering... What would you do? Post plans that had not been tested yet make sense when you work through them, or wait for completion of a working device, (not as simple as we first thought), then post the plans? Turns out the principle is simple but implementing it into hardware is quite a different thing because of the timing of the various things going on in the machine. If we are the first, it will be posted freely, there are others working on it even as we speak and more power to them....a Gestalt, working towards a common goal, cannot fail....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 22:04:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27746; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 22:03:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 22:03:51 -0800 Message-ID: <34912118.4514@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:33:44 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Your opinion References: <116121bf.3490c31b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UzPBG1.0.Qn6.6LYaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte wrote: > > All on list, > Look at this and see if you agree that this flat plate coil would have very > little if none, induction. It would have very little electrical resistance > also. It would have a lot of flux on the sides surface area to put to work for > diverting flux. It should have an ultra low time constant. The current flows > thru the wires in parallel. The currents run in oposite dirrections (one side > of plate to the other side), so magnetic fields cancel each other out with > respect to induction, but they still have the ability to attract or repell a > magnet, ferrite, other flux lines, ect., if the material is moved in as two > pieces (one on each side) in concert. > Do you agree with these statements? > Butch > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] took me a bit to work out your plan ,yes I think your right looks hard to make lots of solder and fragile i guess the ferrite and wire need to be the same thickness to max the effects would it work with the connections on a single edge lots easier to build or will that put a twist in things **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive EXPERIMENTAL RESEARCH From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 01:37:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16584; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:37:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:37:38 -0800 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:37:35 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My agenda with overunity (PLEASE READ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"glTmG.0.w24.WTbaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, HLafonte wrote: no snip needed >>Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:03:16 EST >>From: HLafonte >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: My agenda with overunity (PLEASE READ) >>Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:05:09 -0800 (PST) >>Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> >>This is my agenda concerning overunity devices: >>1. If I develope one, (that works) I don't want to patent it. Somebody and >>their patent attorney would just get around the patent anyway. I've had >>dealings with corporations and investors and they always want 97% and then >>their accountant's get creative and take your remaining 3%. >>2. I will give all information, I repeat, all information, to the list, no >>"gray areas" or left out details. >>3. All questions will be answered with information on how the device works >>and nothing else, I promise! >>4. I do not want any profit from the device, as I believe trying to do so, >>would slow or maybe stop it all together. Harry Truman said, it is amazing >>what can be accomplished when no one cares who get the credit. My personal >>gain would be seeing this device made available to the world. >>5. Every piece of technical info. will be put on a web site should I develope >>a machine that works. This will keep it from being suppressed. >>6. I will flood the web with info. on it's operation and construction so as >>to get it out to the world. >>7. I am going to focus all efforts toward the switching on and off of a spin >>balance system to achive o/u. >>8. If a flux diverting switch can be developed that does not use more power as >>it's switch on time decreases ( while still diverting the flux), then o/u will >>be a simple matter. This is my agenda. >>9. Please help as much as possible, as it will be for an o/u device for the >>world and not my personal gain. >>Thanks, >>Butch LaFonte >>Note: For information on spin balance systems, see (updates) Werjefelt papers >>at overunity homepage at http://www.overunity.de/over.htm >> >> Amen, (execpt for #3, I might ADD a non-relevant MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL)! -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 03:15:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27068; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:15:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:15:32 -0800 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Nuclear Fusion Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:14:43 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34926039.36311318@mail.eisa.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fz9wQ3.0.lc6.Ivcaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:25:51 -0500, ralph muha wrote: [snip] >So where will they get spare parts? No technology, even O/U energy >sources, will be maintenance free. Look at Cagle's list of skills >that will be needed to build his thing: [snip] Granted, some will occasionally require maintenance. However they are not all going to break down at once, and immediately. Many will operate for years (possibly decades) without a problem. This gives society a reasonable chance to rebuild. Better than it would have were it to be totally dependant upon centralised power, that almost certainly will be lost early on. Furthermore, with plenty of power available locally small stills can be built to purify waste water, and or sterilise local sources of "fresh" water. The bottom line is that a decentralised, multiply redundant power supply is far more robust than centralised power distribution. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 05:13:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03746; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:12:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:12:56 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) Cc: jdecker@keelynet.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:12:57 +0100 Message-Id: <19971213141257.0fb8fc1f.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"PUsFz3.0.Rw.Ndeaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 22:23 12.12.1997 -0800, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi Stefan! > >I am puzzled by your comment; > >>From Stefan Hartmann; >> Hmm, >> is it typical for the human race, that you want to become >> rich from a very clever idea ??? > >tsk, tsk......and from you, a fellow I consider a comrade in arms, >with a long history of being known as a true seeker who wanted to make >changes and share the technology... > >I am hoping it was just improperly stated and not meant to imply that I >or anyone working on the project had any INTENT of keeping it quiet for >the purpose of selling it to the highest bidder....that will never >happen. > >We don't have it figured out yet and what we do have is posted for >downloading...my last post to Steve Kaplan explained the two options we >are considering... > >What would you do? Post plans that had not been tested yet make sense >when you work through them, or wait for completion of a working device, >(not as simple as we first thought), then post the plans? > >Turns out the principle is simple but implementing it into hardware is >quite a different thing because of the timing of the various things going >on in the machine. > >If we are the first, it will be posted freely, there are others working >on it even as we speak and more power to them....a Gestalt, working >towards a common goal, cannot fail....seeya! >-- Hi Jerry, sorry, no, of course I did not mean YOU, but Orffyreus ! He wanted to become rich and did hide the principle and thus he failed... By the way, I also have an idea, how this wheel could have worked... Pretty easy principle. I will try to do a computer animation to explain it. With words and just a drawing it is pretty hard to explain, but the principle is really just very easy.... Stay tuned. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 05:32:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04646; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:31:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:31:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3492AA2E.6FD4@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 07:30:54 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) References: <19971213141257.0fb8fc1f.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pSu_E1.0.S81.uueaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan! I should have known better, thanks, sorry for being hyper, there have been more flames than I'm used to on this one..... Another fellow in England is working on this and posted some of his ideas on operation, he gave permission to post them, so I appended to the 'figure it out' file. Interesting, the use of the term SEER which was dug out by orqvav, has an old meaning in India, stating 'a weight whose value changes dependent on locale'...this reads in two ways, the first, in Germany at that time, each township or principality had its own system of weights and measures..so 1 inch in one town could be 1.2 inches in another. However, in this case, he says 'the SEER SEES' which my friend (orqvav) thinks (and I agree) refers directly to the weights in the wheel. The weight changes when it is in rotation because it is pulled against the axle on the ascending side, much like an ice-skater pulling their arms in to increase the spin velocity. On the descending side, the weights are thrown outwards against the anvil, making the clanging sound reported in observations throughout the book. When the weights are extended in this manner, they function like levers, transmitting all their weight to the axle. I have trouble keeping in mind that the entire wheel spins, there is nothing fixed on the edge like in some magnetic devices of this nature. A thick wheel with an axle that rests in cutouts in two supporting columns and it 'just spins'. One person has an amazing grasp of the principles involved and will soon provide his rendition of the construction details. From his description, though the principle is simple, implementing it into hardware will take some serious time and some bucks because the parts have to work together very precisely since they all relate to each other. We'll still give it a shot and hope others will also do so after seeing how the thing works. Once a working model is completed, orqvav believes the next version can be much modernized by the installation of a kicker solenoid that is powered by the wheel..this would eliminate several pieces which have intricate relationships and are difficult to adjust and balance. I think excellent progress has been made in a very, VERY short time. Merry Christmas! As orqvav has stated, it is much like a self-winding watch. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 06:07:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07693; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:07:38 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:07:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712131405.MAA04997@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:08:24 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Very simple Flat Coil ! Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"fkoVQ1.0.6u1.dQfaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To experiment with a flat coil, try the following : 1. Get a piece of 50-wire Flat Cable. 2. Solder together all 50 wires on each end of the flat cable. 3. Wind it around the ferrite, just one turn. 4. Power the ends. Good luck. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 08:36:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27028; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:36:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:36:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3492B22A.2F992537@dcache.net> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:04:58 -0500 From: "James J, Jiamachello" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Very simple Flat Coil !] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B2D1BFF9040F76A714DF6FC5" Resent-Message-ID: <"zjUbG2.0.7c6.xbhaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B2D1BFF9040F76A714DF6FC5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An old flat cable troubleshooting trick is to put modified connectors on each end of the cable, the modification is an extra wire top of one connector bottom of the other.  When you plug them into each other - instant solenoidal coil.

Jim --------------B2D1BFF9040F76A714DF6FC5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx2.ESKIMO.com (mx2.ESKIMO.com [204.122.16.49]) by storm.dcache.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id jiamache for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:11:02 -0500 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07694; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:07:38 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:07:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712131405.MAA04997@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:08:24 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Very simple Flat Coil ! Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"fkoVQ1.0.6u1.dQfaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com To experiment with a flat coil, try the following : 1. Get a piece of 50-wire Flat Cable. 2. Solder together all 50 wires on each end of the flat cable. 3. Wind it around the ferrite, just one turn. 4. Power the ends. Good luck. Marcelo --------------B2D1BFF9040F76A714DF6FC5-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 09:10:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01457; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:10:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:10:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199712131708.PAA09927@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:11:53 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Fwd: Very simple Flat Coil !] Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3492B22A.2F992537@dcache.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"qCLEl3.0.gM.l5iaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > An old flat cable troubleshooting trick is to put modified connectors on > each end of the cable, the modification is an extra wire top of one connector > bottom of the other.  When you plug them into each other - instant > solenoidal coil. > > Jim > Ok, but this way you get each flat-cable wire in series. I was meaning to solder each flat-cable ends ( all 50 wires ) together, and applying power to the two ends. This way each wire is parallel to each other. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 14:38:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06299; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:35:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:35:08 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:26:20 +1100 Message-Id: <199712132326.KAA06214@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@mail.sa.ozland.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: R: David Hamel photos and information at Solaris Geocities site Resent-Message-ID: <"5UHCC2.0.FY1.Qsmaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:52 PM 11/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > I have just added some information,diagrams and photos to my geocities site. about David Hamel .The David Hamel update page is a little slow because of the photos and drawings on it. If you like to help me further promote my website and the search for free and other energy research please vote for it, by registering a vote with the vote button displayed on my main index page and that will take you to the voting site to do this,if you consider my site of some value to you Thank you in advance Geoff http://www.geocities.com/researchTriangle/Lab/1135 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 15:34:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11969; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:32:54 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:32:54 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: My agenda with overunity (PLEASE READ) Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:31:41 +0100 Message-Id: <19971214003141.11ef749d.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"Vfpbh2.0.tw2.ainaq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>This is my agenda concerning overunity devices: > >>1. If I develope one, (that works) I don't want to patent it. Somebody and > >>their patent attorney would just get around the patent anyway. I've had > >>dealings with corporations and investors and they always want 97% and then > >>their accountant's get creative and take your remaining 3%. Exactly ! True in 100 % ! It only takes a big company with the right lawyers and a big money in the background to kill and stop your patent application and your idea will never come to market ! So the best thing is, produce as many units as you can as fast as you can and be always ahead of the pack and competition ! This way you will also make your good money... and you also will be famous, cause you gave the idea to the world... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 18:09:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12625; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:09:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:09:43 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Hooper-Monstein experiment Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 03:10:12 +0100 Message-Id: <19971214031012.128092a2.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"FXfVy.0.A53.b_paq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 20:43 13.12.1997 -0500, John Schnurer wrote: > > > Dear Jean, > > I looked at RQM site. I did not see any description of the >apparatus whichg uses RQM to make power. Is there any real information, >so we can try it ourselves? Patent number? > > > J > >On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, JNaudin509 wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I have updated my web site with some very interesting tests results about the >> Hooper Monstein Effect and also about the RQM theory on Quantum Energy. >> >> You will find all informations at : >> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/qermnu.htm >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Jean-Louis Naudin >> 12/13/97 - 22:45GMT >> >> Hmm, RQM seems to be a pretty clever company ! They sell you papers on machines they do not yet have ! !!! Regards, Stefan. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 22:55:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12456; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:55:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:55:06 -0800 Message-ID: <34939EE8.7607@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:55:04 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Death of Dr. Paul Brown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-upCY2.0.V23.8Buaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! I regret to inform you that Dr. Paul Brown, inventor of the Resonant Nuclear Battery was killed in an explosion on December 12th. Details are posted at; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/pbrown.htm courtesy of his friend and partner, Ronald Dandy. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 00:56:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01975; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:56:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:56:16 -0800 From: JNaudin509 Message-ID: <5a0f9faa.34939f0b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 03:55:37 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: harti@harti.com, jlagarde@cyberaccess.fr, mrandall@earthlink.net, ddameron@earthlink.net Subject: Meeting with RQM technologies. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"jSiSt.0.hU.lyvaq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 14/12/1997 05:36:22 , you wrote : << Hmm, RQM seems to be a pretty clever company ! They sell you papers on machines they do not yet have ! !!! Regards, Stefan. >> Hi Stefan and All, After my Conference on FreeNRG in Zuerich on Saturday Dec 6, I have met Jean- Marie Lehner, president of RQM, in his office on Monday Dec 8. Mr Lehner has presented to me all the RQM theories and principles and also the Oliver Crane's model of our universe. Mr Lehner has kindly given to me the video about RQM and I have also the main book of Oliver Crane's theory "Zentraler Oszillator und Raum-Quanten Medium" which is very interesting and which contains many experiments. After this meeting we have also visited the RQM labs, I have seen latest RQM generator running which "seems" to produce free power from the Quantum Vacuum Field and I have also discussed with the reseachers team. Mr Lehner has shown to me some demonstrations of some previous release of RQM prototypes. Today, I cannot say anymore about the RQM generator principle because these are confidential informations. But I suggest you to study carefully the Oliver Crane's theories which contain the main principle of the RQM generator. The RQM generator is patented in Switzerland WO97/41970 "Method and device for producing electromagnetic pulses" and also patented in many other countries. The main RQM web site is at : http://www.rqm.ch As far as I am concerned, I work closely with RQM and my purpose is to check and understand, step by step, the main Oliver Crane's model and theory. Thus, I need to conduct many experiments which will be published on my web site soon. You will find also some videos and pictures about this. Today you will find only the Hooper-Monstein experiment, but now, I am working on the Monstein-Barnett Experiment. At :http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/qermnu.htm For those who are interested, I can create a small virtual Teamwork about the Quantum Energy researches and experiments, simply let me know. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin 12/14/97 - 08:55GMT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 08:19:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29082 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:19:31 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:19:31 -0800 X-Envelope-From: scottmb@iname.com Sun Dec 14 08:19:28 1997 Received: from mail.lightside.com (mail.lightside.com [207.67.176.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29059 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:19:28 -0800 Received: from pc.lightside.com (user42.lightside.com [207.67.176.42]) by mail.lightside.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11280; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:19:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712141619.IAA11280@mail.lightside.com> Reply-To: From: "Scott " To: , Subject: (Bessler/Orffyreus wheel) Old-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:23:01 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: I saw this posted on the NEWMAN list and tried searching for "Orffyreus wheel" on the web, without much success. Can you point me to more info on this? I have not heard of it before, but it has caught my imagination!! Thanks, Scott At 03:55 12.12.1997 -0800, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi John! > >With regard to the Orffyreus wheel, there is more to it than meets the >eye, note that the scientists and MATHEMATICIANS of his time also stated >emphatically that it defied all KNOWN science....it is so clever...that >is why Orffyreus said he was afraid to receive the 20,000 pounds from a >buyer, only to reveal the secret...the buyer would probably kill him on >the spot once they saw how simple it was.... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 08:43:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05471; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:41:33 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:41:33 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: Jerry From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:44:48 +0100 Message-Id: <19971214174448.15a14ae1.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id IAA05436 Resent-Message-ID: <"JK12P1.0.NL1.wm0bq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 23:27 13.12.1997 -0800, Jerry wrote: >Hi Stefan! > >Interesting drawing, though I think the ramp should be closer to the >axle. Yes, could get closer... also magnetic repellation could work.. A friend of mine build something like thgis in the 1960s and it worked, but he used magnets for the ramps and at the weights coupled with angle steel and it ran slowly.... Unfortunately I did not know him yet at this time, he tried to ghet a patent, the officers said NO and then he destroyed it half a year later, when he was pissed off of the patent office... He tried to rebuild it 20 years later but did not get it again to run, cause the calibartion is almost more complicated than to get linked SMOT ramps to work ! Also it had only flea power output ! But at least it did overcome the friction ! From what the book says, it indicates the rope weights wrapped >around a larger hub attached to the axle....the trick is to reduce their >weight (really the degree of centrifugal force) when the weight is >brought closer to the axle on the ascending side. Much like an iceskater >who pulls in her arms to increase her speed, then spreads her arms to >decrease her speed. The trick is how to release the weights once they >are wound up....such a scheme of wrapping the ropes around the axle >would also let the machine move in either direction....still working on >it....glad to see you are thinking about it, another power brain on the >project......seeya and have a great Holiday Season! Do you have the book of it ? Can you post a few more descriptions ? >From the description on your WEB site I don´t understand the principle... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 10:12:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26977; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:11:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:11:40 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:06:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712141806.KAA16652@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Cc: JNaudin509 Resent-Message-ID: <"tkIS3.0.Qb6.Q52bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, >After this meeting we have also visited the RQM labs, I have seen latest RQM >generator running which "seems" to produce free power from the Quantum Vacuum >Field and I have also discussed with the reseachers team. Mr Lehner has shown >to me some demonstrations of some previous release of RQM prototypes. >Today, I cannot say anymore about the RQM generator principle because these >are confidential informations. Are these units based on their patent? Or are they doing patent applications for these new prototypes? >But I suggest you to study carefully the Oliver Crane's theories which contain >the main principle of the RQM generator. >The RQM generator is patented in Switzerland WO97/41970 "Method and device for >producing electromagnetic pulses" and also patented in many other countries. Is there a USA patent number? English version? Are expensive neodymium magnets required for over-unity operation? Are Crane's theories published on the internet? >The main RQM web site is at : http://www.rqm.ch > >As far as I am concerned, I work closely with RQM and my purpose is to check >and understand, step by step, the main Oliver Crane's model and theory. Thus, >I need to conduct many experiments which will be published on my web site >soon. You will find also some videos and pictures about this. Today you will >find only the Hooper-Monstein experiment, but now, I am working on the >Monstein-Barnett Experiment. What "effects" are produced with Monstein-Barnett? The Hooper-Monstein effects looked interesting. Is there a way to get ou out of it? In Hooper's USA patents 3,610,971 and 3,656,013, I didn't see anything that indicated ou energy operations. >At :http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/qermnu.htm > >For those who are interested, I can create a small virtual Teamwork about the >Quantum Energy researches and experiments, simply let me know. Yes, put me on the Team list. >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin >12/14/97 - 08:55GMT Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 10:29:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA31074; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:28:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:28:39 -0800 Message-ID: <34944175.D60@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:28:37 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <19971214174448.15a14ae1.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x7ShQ3.0.Rb7.ML2bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan! John Collins is a bit antsy worrying that I or someone else will publish some of the more useful material in the book. So, I've refrained from putting out anything specific to this point. Though pieces could be lifted...after all, the most important information is historical and so long in the public domain....I'll see what I can lift that won't make John mad......seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 14:46:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11684; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:45:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:45:53 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:47:26 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Death of Dr. Paul Brown Resent-Message-ID: <"AaxW-.0.Os2.W66bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There seems to be too much of this going around. I urge everyone in the advanced energy fields - especially those with aptents - to be more careful! You too Jerry! Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 14:57:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23138; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:56:28 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:56:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19851215100036.006a2fe8@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1985 17:51:36 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: My agenda with overunity (PLEASE READ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"45s0z2.0.Qf5.NG6bq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:31 AM 12/14/97 +0100, you wrote: > >> >>This is my agenda concerning overunity devices: >> >>1. If I develope one, (that works) I don't want to patent it. Somebody and >> >>their patent attorney would just get around the patent anyway. I've had >> >>dealings with corporations and investors and they always want 97% and then >> >>their accountant's get creative and take your remaining 3%. > >Exactly ! True in 100 % ! >It only takes a big company with the right lawyers and a big money >in the background to kill and stop >your patent application and your idea will never come to market ! > >So the best thing is, produce as many units as you can as fast >as you can and be always ahead of the pack and competition ! >This way you will also make your good money... and you also will be famous, >cause you gave the idea to the world... > I once read They can steal my ideas but they can't steal my mind. And that will allways leave them Two steps behind. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 15:25:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26853; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:24:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:24:52 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712141806.KAA16652@norway.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:24:29 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Resent-Message-ID: <"Bmeen1.0.NZ6.1h6bq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > The Hooper-Monstein effects looked interesting. Is > there a way to get ou out of it? Maybe the back EMF from the coils to the magnets is easier to 'hide' from? Sounds like a sort of solid state or non-moving version of those electric generators with the counterbalanced magnets. If the coils have a rising and falling magnetic flux surrounding them in the specified geometry, maybe current is induced in an unbalanced way - less back EMF for some reason. But I wonder where those HV spikes the RQM pages refer to are coming from? Natural sources? I've been looking at the petrovoltaic information lately, and while the energy that accumulates in capacitors is tiny, it could be that the accumulation is only a gradually varying difference in what may be a much larger AC flux - with sharp HV spikes. Dielectrics are pretty noisy just sitting there doing nothing at room temperature. At very low temperatures things get much quieter, but I don't know how this affects dielectric self-charging. In TTB's experiments, caps self charge in distinct diurnal tide-like patterns even when held at a constant temperature. Might be something to try on the next jug of LN2. BTW, is it just me, or doesn't it look like flux lines are still changing across a conductor in the Hooper-Monstein test? Can anyone explain then why this is really an unconventional thing? In homopolars the flux density *and* the polarity - it's "homopolar", after all - don't change at any point across the conductor, and that seems even stranger to me somehow, although it's easy to see that 'lines' are cut by the moving conductor in such spinning devices - as they also appear to be cut in the Hooper-Monstein test. In HM, the polarity doesn't change. It's balanced out at 'zero', but the flux density changes. Right? Still confused, - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 18:28:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11843; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:28:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:28:02 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971214220554.0096f310@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:05:57 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"G2OeL.0.xu2.mM9bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde writes >BTW, is it just me, or doesn't it look like flux lines are still changing >across a conductor in the Hooper-Monstein test? Can anyone explain then why >this is really an unconventional thing? In homopolars the flux density >*and* the polarity - it's "homopolar", after all - don't change at any >point across the conductor, and that seems even stranger to me somehow, >although it's easy to see that 'lines' are cut by the moving conductor in >such spinning devices - as they also appear to be cut in the >Hooper-Monstein test. In HM, the polarity doesn't change. It's balanced out >at 'zero', but the flux density changes. Right? Electromagnetic induction occurs by two means, by variation of a B field or relative motion of a circuit thru a B field ('flux cutting'). The proper approach to this problem is to calculate the effect of each magnet seperately on the wire, and then sum the components. Either approach should work, but the notion of "cutting flux" when the flux at the point of the wire sums to zero seems a little absurd. It should follow that by switching the polarity of one of the magnets in the Monstein-Hooper experiment that the voltage should cancel. This is oddly reminiscient of what one sees in a transmission line with one end open circuited, the forward and reverse travelling wave arising from the open circuit cancelling current but doubling voltage. Would one expect to see currents doubling if the search coil was shorted? How about it JLN? Try switching polarity of a single magnet, and also perhaps switching from a potential measurement to a current measurement. This 'paradox' has a long history in the literature, the effect is quite real but the interpretation has always been argued. I'm not to sure about that induction by A field theory though. Although we can all agree the A field is real (plenty of experimental evidence there, Aharanov & Bohm amongst many) that it would tranfer energy would be at odds with the current understanding of Quantum Mechanics. This is the controversial part I suppose. I'm looking at Monsteins paper now ( http://www.rqm.ch/eng/hoopera2.htm ) and comment on it if the thread keeps alive. KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 19:33:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20369; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:32:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:32:57 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_882185351==_" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? X-Attachments: C:\BESSLER1.GIF; Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:33:36 +0100 Message-Id: <19971215043336.17f34b8d.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"4O3bV.0.9-4.eJAbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_882185351==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Jerry and all ! I have made a GIF about my idea... Maybe at the right side the weights are pushed via the stand into the center towards the axis, thus reducing the weight of this side, so the whole wheel rotates to the left side ??? Maybe someone can do a vector force analysis of this setup ? Regards, Stefan. --=====================_882185351==_ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="BESSLER1.GIF"; x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="6D646F73" Content-Transfer-Encoding: x-uuencode Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BESSLER1.GIF" begin 600 BESSLER1.GIF M1TE&.#EA@`+@`8```````/___RP`````@`+@`0`"_HR/J\L?75S2XH:>7 M$JBB^,&86*@!F7!H5YESZ.B(H'E0R!GP>=DIB8$9VDAJ M(0Y!7FS-BLZ[V3WMSE$]NFLK&/CW#"VO.Y^-BVD0C]TS>OIZ?8-$22"C?_(* M1KMGC1N_/00+3DH(D)3$_H;0JD'TAQ!?QH_"VKT[&>X@R(D,%0X:-G(D1H$R M8W8J++&9/GS7Y!-;XDNK(I)9(.6<[T8Q*EU@D! 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M)W(-RA;J#MZP_FH^'MZ1TQKR/NY@3O.&_GW0W5"7@Q?S0!<\Z=ZMNV'C^F&< M0/_J<^KL((?QIEA9F`.;]1Z!$-?;VAE:I4W1:U??/ZG":EQ"3-^B3F_UE[TM M7@^-5V_85'^R8*\M8H^.9(_0(B[89<_V@.WVCVWV3#?WDXWV1U_W:'?WMVW7 =?P_X@2_X@T_X+6TJA8_XB:_XB\_X0UT%!0```#L` ` end --=====================_882185351==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net --=====================_882185351==_-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 20:35:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29542; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:34:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:34:50 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:34:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712150434.UAA08209@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"g9eji.0.UD7.fDBbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, Can you send the GIF in MIME format? At 04:33 AM 12/15/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Jerry and all ! > >I have made a GIF about my idea... > >Maybe at the right side the weights are pushed via the stand >into the center towards the axis, thus reducing the weight of this >side, so the whole wheel rotates to the left side ??? > >Maybe someone can do a vector force analysis of this setup ? > >Regards, Stefan. > >begin 600 BESSLER1.GIF >M1TE&.#EA@`+@`8```````/___RP`````@`+@`0`"_HR/JM^P^&XDB6YHFFZLJV[@O'\DS7]HWG^L[W_@\,"H?$HO&(3"J7S*;S"8U*I]2J >M]8K-:K?\L?75S2XH:>7 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 20:41:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01860; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:40:42 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:40:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:39:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712150439.UAA22567@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Resent-Message-ID: <"-qIRd2.0.rS.4JBbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:05 PM 12/14/97 -0500, Keith wrote: > >Rick Monteverde writes > >>BTW, is it just me, or doesn't it look like flux lines are still changing >>across a conductor in the Hooper-Monstein test? Can anyone explain then why >>this is really an unconventional thing? In homopolars the flux density >>*and* the polarity - it's "homopolar", after all - don't change at any >>point across the conductor, and that seems even stranger to me somehow, >>although it's easy to see that 'lines' are cut by the moving conductor in >>such spinning devices - as they also appear to be cut in the >>Hooper-Monstein test. In HM, the polarity doesn't change. It's balanced out >>at 'zero', but the flux density changes. Right? > >Electromagnetic induction occurs by two means, by variation of a B field or >relative motion of a circuit thru a B field ('flux cutting'). The proper >approach >to this problem is to calculate the effect of each magnet seperately on the >wire, and then sum the components. Either approach should work, but the >notion of "cutting flux" when the flux at the point of the wire sums to zero >seems a little absurd. > Yes, I can see the voltage doubled from one magnet by V= velocity*length*Bfield, if the voltages from each magnet are added. The right one has the Negative velocity and Bfield, so it (voltage) adds. But if the B fields add to zero all along the wire?? However the flux through the loop of wire (including the voltmeter leads) is changing, even if the field AT the wire =O, as well as dB/dt there. Reminds me of motor wires embedded in iron so they see very little field themselves, but still act as motors/generators. Also the Homopolar generator leads where the disk and magnet rotate together. Somewhere I read a while ago, an explanation of the equivalence of these 2 means of induction via Maxwell's eqns, will look for it. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 20:49:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03326; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:48:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:48:47 -0800 (PST) To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:39:18 -0800 Subject: Re: Death of Dr. Paul Brown Message-ID: <19971214.203927.9598.1.tv@juno.com> References: <34939F15.55DC@keelynet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-19,21,25-26,30-31,33-37 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"mljtW3.0.np.YQBbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:55:49 -0800 Jerry writes: >Hi Folks! > >I regret to inform you that Dr. Paul Brown, inventor of the Resonant >Nuclear Battery was killed in an explosion on December 12th. Details >are posted at; > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/pbrown.htm > >courtesy of his friend and partner, Ronald Dandy. >-- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 > > Hi Jerry, I am very sad to receive the news of Paul Brown's passing in the tragic accident. I talked to and corresponded with Paul on a number of occasions about our mutual interest in the work of Thomas Henry Moray and his radiant energy device which Paul believed (as I do) that it was closely related to Paul's latest work. Paul impressed me with his kindness and professionalism. He was quite open about sharing ideas with others as much as he was allowed by his business arrangements. His books were the best I have found on the topic of nuclear batteries, especially resonant. I hope that his work will not be lost or suppressed as was the case with Moray. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 23:14:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18845; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:14:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:14:02 -0800 From: JNaudin509 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 02:13:15 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: mrandall@earthlink.net, redesign@pavilion.co.uk, herman@antioch-college.edu Subject: Re : Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"9mAEg.0.Ic4.vYDbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 14/12/1997 21:51:14 , Michael Randall wrote : << Hi Jean-Louis, Are these units based on their patent? Or are they doing patent applications for these new prototypes? Is there a USA patent number? English version? >> The US Patent is under process, but the Swiss Patent is CH 687 428 A5 ( granted in Nov 29, 1996), you will find all "public" informations about the RQM generator principles at : http://www.rqm.ch/eng/n031097e.htm In this document, the main principle and tests measurements about the RQM generator are fully explained. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- << Are expensive neodymium magnets required for over-unity operation? >> No, it is not necessary to use NIB magnets, In the basic experiment they have used simple Alnico magnets for the Hooper/Monstein's effect and Ferrite magnets for the main Monstein's effect. ----------------------------------------- << Are Crane's theories published on the internet? >> Not today, but I shall publish it soon in my web site.... ----------------------------------------- << What "effects" are produced with Monstein-Barnett? >> The Monstein-Barnett demonstrate that : - when a simple iron cylinder which turn in high speed (about >2500 RPM) around its main axis a magnetic field is generated and can be measured with a hall probe, - when the spin is reversed the magnetic field change its direction, This effect is directly linked to the Oliver Crane's theory which said that the Quantum field medium can be driven by the matter in rotation. I have planed this experiment soon, and also I have the video about the original experiment and all the original experimal test results and calculation. ---------------------------------------- << The Hooper-Monstein effects looked interesting. Is there a way to get ou out of it? In Hooper's USA patents 3,610,971 and 3,656,013, I didn't see anything that indicated ou energy operations. >> The Hooper-Monstein effect is only for understanding purpose about the Quantum theory of O.Crane, not for producing some O/U effects. ------- << Yes, put me on the Team list. Regards, Michael Randall >> OK, you are welcome, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin 12/15/97 - 07:08GMT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 23:15:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19072; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:14:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:14:55 -0800 From: JNaudin509 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 02:13:03 EST To: herman@antioch-college.edu Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"893I42.0.uf4.kZDbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 14/12/1997 19:09:00 , you wrote: << Dear Jean, What is the patent numbers for US or other countries, and is the inventor listed as Oliver Crane? >> Dear John, The US Patent is under process, but the Swiss Patent is CH 687 428 A5 ( granted in Nov 29, 1996), you will find all "public" informations about the RQM generator principles at : http://www.rqm.ch/eng/n031097e.htm In this document, the main principle and tests measurements about the RQM generator are fully explained. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin 12/15/97 - 06:50GMT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 23:39:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20058; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:34:10 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:34:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:33:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712150733.XAA14725@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Resent-Message-ID: <"2UT712.0.Ev4.krDbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: >But I wonder where those HV spikes the RQM pages refer to are coming from? >Natural sources? I didn't see any of these HV spikes at the RQM site. Where are they hidden under? Or are you thinking of the ATG site? -Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 00:23:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25301; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:23:30 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:23:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971215162245.006e9b58@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:22:45 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pfzGx3.0.EB6.0aEbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis Naudin wrote: >The US Patent is under process, but the Swiss Patent is CH 687 428 A5 ( >granted in Nov 29, 1996), you will find all "public" informations about the >RQM generator principles at : http://www.rqm.ch/eng/n031097e.htm > >In this document, the main principle and tests measurements about the RQM >generator are fully explained. The document reads :- The RQM (English: SQM = Space-Quanta-Medium) technology deals with a new electromagnetic conversion process of existing forces in nature, which can be found everywhere. These forces are similar to the well known gravitational forces. In this process these forces of nature are directly converted into electrical energy. The core of the new RQM-technology is a device protected under the Swiss Patent No. CH 687 428 A5, granted November 29, 1996. The title is "Device and Procedure for the Generation of Electromagnetic Pulses". In the meantime (within the priority deadline), the patent has been applied for in 91 countries. The procedure provides for the continual supply of the converted energy by the forces of nature similar to sun energy. However, this occurs 24 hours a day and without any great fluctuation. In the device the RQM flux which is generated acts on the free electrons of the patented core of the RQM unit and causes a potential difference (potential drop), thereby producing eco-friendly electricity. You call this "fully explained"? Where does it mention anything about "tests measurements"? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 01:08:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28944; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:07:58 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:07:58 -0800 (PST) X-ROUTED: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:05:22 -0200 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Shamal Message-ID: <3494F2C8.DE3D40F0@datacomm.ch> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:05:12 +0100 From: Martin Schmid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hooper-Monstein experiment References: <19971214031012.128092a2.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mkaL32.0.847.iDFbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartman wrote: > > Hmm, > > RQM seems to be a pretty clever company ! > > They sell you papers on machines they do not yet have ! !!! > > Regards, Stefan. > Hi Stefan, Hi List RQM is a profit oriented company. Attached to it is RQF, the "Institut für Raum Quanten Forschung" (the institute for room quantum research). Although nothing of value could be proved yet and although they lie back three years behind their planning, the intermediate results are quite promising. There seem to be some practical problems building the device. Extremely high peak currents destroyed all sort of high current diodes. As this seemed to be solved, the next problem was the storage of such peak signals to be able to work closed loop. Although I agree, that there is no prove causing one to stop thinking all the shown could be just a swindle, I think it's not good to make the disappointed just because the engineers at RQM hide themselves and their results and also members of both RQM and RQF usually prefer to be ignored - as I said days before: most of the scene are paranoid and few of them by true reason. I will post the patent number tomorrow. You'll find similarities to all other aether exiters and I'd take this as strong indication of the basic invention being based on reality. Regards, Martin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 01:15:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00841; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:15:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:15:12 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712150733.XAA14725@norway.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:15:41 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Resent-Message-ID: <"2U_mT3.0.2D.VKFbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > I didn't see any of these HV spikes at the RQM site. > Where are they hidden under? Or are you thinking of > the ATG site? At the RQM site, in document http://www.rqm.ch/eng/n010897e.htm I saw references to powerful pulses or resonant spikes, although my defective memory seems to have converted them to "high voltage" spikes all on its own. Sorry about that. For all I know they may have been low voltage, although the quote below of "very high energy pulses" is rather suggestive of high voltage. Here are quotes from the document: > The RQM-effect (i.e. the pulsed emission of charge > carriers from the RQM base unit) has been achieved > for the first time on June 2, 1995. At that time the > perceived energy peaks similar to avalanche effects > were reduced and brought under control. ... > The problem of the excessive resonances while adding > the more powerful RQM sectors is continually reduced. ... > However due to not finitely controllable or unstable > input parameters very easily resonant peaking may > occur, which may lead to total destruction of the power > electronics due to very high energy pulses, > propagating similar to the avalanche effect. > With the help of further extensive experiments the > reactions of the equipment were gradually brought > under control. High voltage, low voltage, who knows. I think there's a pretty good chance they're making the whole thing up anyway. But I'm still curious, of course. I built SMOT ramps, didn't I? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 01:36:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03652; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:35:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:35:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199712150935.KAA44564@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:25:00 CET Subject: Ang.: Re: Hooper-Monstein experiment MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mschmid@datacomm.ch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA03635 Resent-Message-ID: <"yllyT2.0.zu.ldFbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >RQF, the "Institut für Raum Quanten Forschung" (the institute for room >quantum research). Or better The Institute for Space Quantum Research. Regards, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 03:36:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09037; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 03:36:14 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 03:36:14 -0800 (PST) From: JNaudin509 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 06:34:40 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au, mrandall@earthlink.net, redesign@pavilion.co.uk, herman@antioch-college.edu, 101722.2050@compuServe.com, jlagarde@cyberaccess.fr Subject: Re : Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"5TRqG2.0.6D2.jOHbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 15/12/1997 12:39:57 , John Winterflood wrote : << You call this "fully explained"? Where does it mention anything about "tests measurements"? >> Hi John and all, Sorry, I have referenced the wrong RQM's document , the good one is : http://www.rqm.ch/eng/n010897e.htm In this document, the main principle and tests measurements about the RQM generator are fully explained. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin 12/15/97 - 11:31GMT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 04:28:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12171; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:28:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:28:23 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_882217677==_" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? X-Attachments: C:\BESSLER1.GIF; Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:32:24 +0100 Message-Id: <19971215133224.19e09392.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"AsoHd1.0.-z2.a9Ibq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_882217677==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Again in MIME format as some requested ! Hi all ! I have made a GIF about my idea... Maybe at the right side the weights are pushed via the stand into the center towards the axis, thus reducing the weight of this side, so the whole wheel rotates to the left side ??? Maybe someone can do a vector force analysis of this setup ? 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Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net --=====================_882217677==_-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 04:47:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20633; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:47:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:47:50 -0800 Message-ID: <19971215124715.543.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [164.117.161.214] From: "Mark Stites" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: bitter solenoid Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:47:15 PST Resent-Message-ID: <"Wxgur.0.I25.rRIbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm a new reader to this digest. And understand there existed a discussion on the Bitter Solenoid. I saw a page that showed pictures of the frogs floating in the tube. I find this very interesting. My question is, are there any publicly available plans to build one for demonstration purposes? Or is it too dangerous for classroom environment?? Any help on this would be great!! Thanx MArk ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 04:57:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA13995; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:56:55 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:56:55 -0800 (PST) X-ROUTED: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:54:06 -0200 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mschmid@datacomm.ch From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Hooper-Monstein experiment Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:59:56 +0100 Message-Id: <19971215135956.19f9c803.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id EAA13977 Resent-Message-ID: <"AWhet2.0.aQ3.LaIbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:05 15.12.1997 +0100, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Stefan Hartman wrote: >> >> Hmm, >> >> RQM seems to be a pretty clever company ! >> >> They sell you papers on machines they do not yet have ! !!! >> >> Regards, Stefan. >> > >Hi Stefan, Hi List > >RQM is a profit oriented company. Attached to it is RQF, the "Institut >für Raum Quanten Forschung" (the institute for room quantum research). >Although nothing of value could be proved yet and although they lie >back three years behind their planning, the intermediate results are >quite promising. There seem to be some practical problems building the >device. Extremely high peak currents destroyed all sort of high current >diodes. As this seemed to be solved, the next problem was the storage of >such peak signals to be able to work closed loop. > >Although I agree, that there is no prove causing one to stop thinking >all the shown could be just a swindle, I think it's not good to make >the disappointed just because the engineers at RQM hide themselves and >their results and also members of both RQM and RQF usually prefer to be >ignored - as I said days before: most of the scene are paranoid and few >of them by true reason. > >I will post the patent number tomorrow. You'll find similarities to >all other aether exiters and I'd take this as strong indication of the >basic invention being based on reality. > > > >Regards, Martin > Hi Martin, thanks for the info. Yes, RQM is a very mysterious company.... I hope that they don´t just sell vapourware and that their effects are real and not just measurement errors. But Jean Louis seems to be very exited about it. I hope he can reproduce the effects on a greater scale ! Regards, STefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 05:01:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22170; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 05:01:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 05:01:43 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Open Letter to Greg Watson:Final word on SMOT Kit Shipping status ? Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:02:18 +0100 Message-Id: <19971215140218.19fbf0ae.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA22141 Resent-Message-ID: <"gMCbp.0.HQ5.seIbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Resent on 15th of December, cause Greg has not yet answered. Open Letter to Greg Watson: Hi Greg, I guess, it is finally time to ship the SMOT kits to ALL 26 persons on your list. You have kept your promises each week to ship it finnally in a few weeks of time, so you really prevented others to try hard to reproduce it cause we have ordered it and thought: "well we will get it in a few days, so why should we experiment on our own..!" This way you have kept many others who believed in you from experimenting for theirselfs with the SMOT things. So please let us finally know, if you will still ship the SMOT before XMAS or at which date or not at all...! I here with it am requesting a final offical valid word from you, so we know, what will happen, otherwise I might request a refund and will try to build something like this on my own. I don´t know, how others see it, but I have never expected to get a cloosed loop SMOT from the first ad from you, but just a working SMOT ramp... I had no time to buy magnets and parts on my own back then and just waited to get a working SMOT ramp... So, please ship something NOW, also if it does not work in cloosed loop mode... maybe I get it runnig over here with fiddling and tuning it... BUT PLEASE SHIP SOMETHING FINALLY !!!! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 08:19:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15388; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:19:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:19:25 -0800 Message-ID: <349574A3.6DFF@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:19:15 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <19971215133224.19e09392.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"guvad2.0.Gm3.BYLbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Regarding Stefan's diagram, he has weights suspended from the outer rim of the wheel. There are about 6 evenly spaced weights which hang down from a wheel that would rotate in a vertical plane. A FIXED ramp is shown on the side which is intended to push the weights towards the axle. There are two serious errors in this diagram. The Bessler wheel was completely self-contained. It used no FIXED devices outside the wheel. All that extended from the wheel was the axle which was supported by a column on either side. So that knocks out the fixed ramp. The other serious error is the Bessler wheel uses a form of leverage. The moving weights transmit their force to the axle by leverage. Think of it as putting a plank of wood on top of the axle. If you put the weight close to the axle, the weight is less, if you put the weight to the farthest end of the plank, the weight is MAGNIFIED by virtue of leverage. Because of this, Stefan's drawing, which shows the weights suspended from the outer edge of the wheel, will always convey the maximum weight to the axle. It would not matter if the weight was pushed in because the point from which it was suspended, remained attached to the outer rim of the wheel. Bessler used the term 'the Seer Sees'. Seer has as one of its old meanings, 'weight which varies with locale'. The weights inside the wheel must shift to vary the amount of force which they convey to the axle. This requires that the point from which the weights are suspended must ALSO move toward the axle.....a moving leverage point. The winner will of course have a working machine to prove their idea of the design. If you read the book, you instantly see these two points about Stefan's design which would not allow it to self-run. The closest diagram I've seen that is 'adaptable' is posted on Borut Mocnicks page in Slovenia. That diagram is included in the 1956 article accessible from the KeelyNet front page. Click below and read down to Orffyreus. Looks better every day and we haven't even reached the end of 1997!! Seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 08:31:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17580; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:31:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:31:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199712151628.OAA10901@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: HLafonte Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:31:27 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: LaFonte motor/generator Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <6cecdf1d.34595a60@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"fl3Zc1.0.ZI4.CjLbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: HLafonte > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:11:49 EST > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: LaFonte motor/generator > Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > The following design is based on the principle that, ferrite rods in parallel, > with respect to flux in a magnetic circuit, behave in the same fashion as > electrical resistors in parallel, behave with respect to current flow. This > behavor is used to switch the flux path in part, to other rods by inserting > them into the parallel path of an existing rod or rods. The addition of the > rods gives an additional path or paths for the flux, and in doing so, the > magnetic field around the original rod or rods, collapses to a certain degree. > This collapse thru a coil around the rod or rods, induces a voltage/current. > After more testing it could be that this current needs to be held to a value > equal to the percentage of flux left over in the rod after the additional rods > are in full alignment. In other words, if the original rod has it's flux > reduced to one third of it's value after the additional rods are fully > aligned, then only one third of the power from the coil should be allowed to > flow in the coil circuit. After the poles are aligned it would appear that > work has to be done to move them, but a spin balance system is incorporated to > counter this attractive force. Anyone who is not familiar with the spin > balance system can find info. on Stefan Hartman's overunity page, under > updates on the Werjefelt papers (http://www.overunity.de/over.htm). Only a > proof of concept test has been done, and a working prototype will be built > after looking at any input from the list. Drawing butch18.gif is attached, and > butch19.gif will be sent a few hours later. All power produced from the coil > should be overunity. > Comments please, > Butch > copyright Harold LaFonte 10/29/97 > I was looking at your BUTCH18.GIF and BUTCH19.GIF and they are interesting. They are similar to the Greg Watson experiments. I would like to know about your progress on this experiment. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 08:38:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19504; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:37:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:37:56 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD093D.E8800140.reed@zenergy.com> From: Reed Huish Reply-To: "reed@zenergy.com" To: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Dr. Brown's Death Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:43:27 -0700 Organization: Zenergy Corporation X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zkCUm2.0.Vm4.YpLbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I can't comment on his death, but I can on his life. When I spoke to him about 1 month ago, he was very close to licensing of his technology to Asian concerns. He was well funded, in his own laboratory, and a national laboratory had confirmed solid test results which had generated a flurry of interest from large corporations in the East. Note - his technology is NOT over-unity, but a nuclear battery (he made this very clear to me when we spoke recently). However, it is one step closer to the goal of cheap, clean, abundant energy for all humanity. - Reed Zenergy http://zenergy.com > I was very sad to hear of Dr. Paul Brown's untimely death. This > makes > four new energy researchers we have lost in the past year. Does > anyone > have further details surrounding the explosion? Did it occur in > his > lab? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 08:55:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23381; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:53:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:53:58 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:54:08 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712151654.RAA22747@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Arthur C. Clarke birthday Resent-Message-ID: <"4MZ8U1.0.Zi5.S2Mbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi list Arthur C. Clarke will be 80, tomorrow, December 16th. Does anyone has his email ? (This should not invade his privacy - I read recently that he has 8 secretaries to process his e-mail !) Cheers to all --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 08:56:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24322; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:56:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:56:44 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:01:13 +0100 Message-Id: <19971215180113.1ad6b0f8.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"d4ODz2.0.vx5.A5Mbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:19 15.12.1997 -0800, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi Folks! > >Regarding Stefan's diagram, he has weights suspended from the outer rim >of the wheel. There are about 6 evenly spaced weights which hang down >from a wheel that would rotate in a vertical plane. A FIXED ramp is >shown on the side which is intended to push the weights towards the axle. > >There are two serious errors in this diagram. > >The Bessler wheel was completely self-contained. It used no FIXED >devices outside the wheel. All that extended from the wheel was the axle >which was supported by a column on either side. So that knocks out the >fixed ramp. > >The other serious error is the Bessler wheel uses a form of leverage. >The moving weights transmit their force to the axle by leverage. Think >of it as putting a plank of wood on top of the axle. If you put the >weight close to the axle, the weight is less, if you put the weight to >the farthest end of the plank, the weight is MAGNIFIED by virtue of >leverage. > >Because of this, Stefan's drawing, which shows the weights suspended from >the outer edge of the wheel, will always convey the maximum weight to the >axle. It would not matter if the weight was pushed in because the point >from which it was suspended, remained attached to the outer rim of the >wheel. > Hi Jerry, I bet, that this is not the case. If you draw the forces via vector sum, then the down force at the right side is less than at the left side when all forces are addes up. (If I did not make an error..) The only problem is, that he friction of the weights pressing against the stable stand have to be overcome, so the weights must be able to go up against the stand with very low friction only... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 09:13:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14666; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:12:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:12:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349580FC.1811@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:11:56 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <19971215180113.1ad6b0f8.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L2gA5.0._a3.LKMbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan! Thats why I put in the insurance clause....a working machine will prove the concept....yours would be very easy to build and I'll bet a case of beer it won't work....just send me something European......seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 10:09:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09842; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:09:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:09:26 -0800 From: KURT_BENSON@NON-HP-Boise-om8.om.hp.com X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 11:09:12 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19971215180113.1ad6b0f8.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? MIME-Version: 1.0 TO: harti@harti.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Feeb31.0.ZP2.K9Nbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Author: Non-HP-harti (harti@harti.com) at HP-Boise,mimegw7 Date: 12/15/97 10:01 AM At 10:19 15.12.1997 -0800, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi Folks! > >Regarding Stefan's diagram, he has weights suspended from the outer rim >of the wheel. There are about 6 evenly spaced weights which hang down >from a wheel that would rotate in a vertical plane. A FIXED ramp is >shown on the side which is intended to push the weights towards the axle. > >There are two serious errors in this diagram. > >The Bessler wheel was completely self-contained. It used no FIXED >devices outside the wheel. All that extended from the wheel was the axle >which was supported by a column on either side. So that knocks out the >fixed ramp. > >The other serious error is the Bessler wheel uses a form of leverage. >The moving weights transmit their force to the axle by leverage. Think >of it as putting a plank of wood on top of the axle. If you put the >weight close to the axle, the weight is less, if you put the weight to >the farthest end of the plank, the weight is MAGNIFIED by virtue of >leverage. > >Because of this, Stefan's drawing, which shows the weights suspended from >the outer edge of the wheel, will always convey the maximum weight to the >axle. It would not matter if the weight was pushed in because the point >from which it was suspended, remained attached to the outer rim of the >wheel. > Hi Jerry, I bet, that this is not the case. If you draw the forces via vector sum, then the down force at the right side is less than at the left side when all forces are addes up. (If I did not make an error..) The only problem is, that he friction of the weights pressing against the stable stand have to be overcome, so the weights must be able to go up against the stand with very low friction only... the friction problem also bothered me until my "bubble memory" supplied a solution, ramp is a magnet with a pole facing the wheel, the weights are pole-same towards the ramp and then the only friction is the axle and weight pins. I believe the original concept, if I remember correctly, involved the weights moving in angled slots from the axle to the edge of the wheel. still seems like a zero sum idea, it would take a huge engine to take advantage of any power because almost any load will make it stall. kurt Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 10:15:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25844; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34958F5F.5593@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:13:19 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <19971215180113.1ad6b0f8.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GZR7Q.0.jJ6.tDNbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan! If you have a weight suspended from a column that is on a scale to measure the weight, you will get say 5 pounds. If you move the weight to the right by 45 degrees, you still get a 5 pound reading, if you move the weight to the left by 45 degrees, you still get a 5 pound reading. So, if you have a weight that is suspended from the edge of the wheel, simply pushing the weight to either side will not alter the weight that presents itself on the edge of the wheel. Since the axle supports the wheel, then anything attached to the wheel must necessarily also be supported by that same axle. The whole point is to create an imbalance by using leverage. That imbalance is produced by leverage from a weight that moves in the radial arms. It is interesting because regardless what is attached to the wheel, the axle must support it....the trick here is 'swinging meat' which any truck driver who hauls frozen meat will tell you involves some tricky driving. Because the meat is hanging and allowed to swing, the driver has to be careful going around corners or making turns....the center of gravity WILL CHANGE....what Orffyreus calls the 'quiet point'. It is just such a shifting load that makes the Orffyreus engine so interesting....nothing is static when it is running. The weights, in their movement, rearrange their effect on the axle to provide a shifting that creates the imbalance....precisely what Hamel calls 'weight into speed'....falling into itself....by virtue of this intentional periodic shifting of the weights..... Again, the insurance clause that will protect any idea....built it according to the idea, if it works, the design is proven correct...though there could be other ways to achieve the same end result.....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 11:07:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27178; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:06:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:06:46 -0800 Message-ID: <34959BDC.495B@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:06:36 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jqk861.0.Xe6.4_Nbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Kurt! Your 'bubble memory', eh? Got a laugh out of that one...very good.... Only Bessler did not use any magnets, it was weights and levers (with some other components).....in the book he does refer to greased kennels (like what a dog runs in, a pathway or channel) to minimize friction. With todays materials, Teflon, Delrin and other very slick materials you can order in all kinds of shapes and sizes (McMaster-Carr catalog), we should easily be able to beat the heck out of friction. I worked on a machine that was a sorter...it read barcodes on a customer bag and assigned a bin location. The bag would drop in a carrier which was attached to a space age low friction plastic chain...this chain and the attached carriers were guided by teflon rails and deflection pieces. I was always amazed how much FORCE these deflection pieces could take without appreciable wear or warping....for 3 years, we only replaced about 3 of these deflection pieces and NONE of the guide rails...this machine was operated roughly 22 hours per day, 6 days a week....modern materials are amazing. I am of the opinion that a deflection plate that arranges for more weight to periodically appear on one side than another will make it work....we shall see....bubble memory, what a hoot! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 12:20:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16666; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:20:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:20:10 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:55:02 -0500 Subject: Re: My agenda with over unity (PLEASE READ) Message-ID: <19971215.151406.6374.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <3.0.32.19851215100036.006a2fe8@mail.wincom.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,10-11,17-18,21-22,24-25,29-30,34-38 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"CaULY3.0.244.s3Pbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>It only takes a big company with the right lawyers and a big money >>in the background to kill and stop >>your patent application and your idea will never come to market ! >> >>So the best thing is, produce as many units as you can as fast >>as you can and be always ahead of the pack and competition ! One of Don Lancaster's better points is that patents are nearly worthless for private individuals. Many large companies will simply violate your patent and then force you bankrupt fighting them in court. His "recommendation" seems to publish it (to keep others from claiming the idea) and then to constantly improve/refine it. Look what that concept did for Microsoft! The first person to publicly demonstrate a useable o/u or free energy device will be established as THE authority in that area of expertise, and will be able to name his/her salary and benefit package with any large corporation. The benefit of this media of exchange is that "they" won't be able to stop the spread the technology this time....providing that the technology is given out freely. Hiding it in an attempt to make a fortune has always ended in failure, and in some cases an untimely end. I have a decent day job. My motivation for being in the free energy arena is that I WANT TO SEE A WORKING DEVICE THAT I BUILT MYSELF. I have been looking twenty years, and I don't care if I am the one who invents it or if someone else does, I would just like to see it happen. One other point is that some inventors think that the very first market version has to replace a V8 in a car or power an entire home. A free energy device that can power a portable radio, etc is enough to make a start. I think this is the approach Greg has been taking. Of course, my wife wouldn't mind if I we struck a gold mine! Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 12:49:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22938; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:49:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:49:16 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19971215133224.19e09392.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:49:43 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"-U93Z.0.2c5.BVPbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: >Maybe someone can do a vector force analysis of this setup ? Just resolve which way the weights need to move and you can see why this sort of thing never worked. The weights require a net upward lift in your drawing, since 'towards the axle' from the bottom or any lower half position means 'up' to some degree. Net gain = 0. If you try to arrange it where the weights seem to move sideways (at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions) to get to their new positions WRT the axle, check their acceleration against the direction of the wheel, and again you see a net tug against the turn of the wheel, even from a presumably counteracting pair of weights. They don't really counterbalance each other operating in matched pairs the way you'd hope, because the wheel turns and reverses the hoped-for balancing effect of any 'return' stroke from a weight. Physics has rejected these gizmos for very good reasons. You can always make a drawing of one version or another so it looks like it would work until you see where the "flaw" is. There's *always* a flaw. This may be an exercise in mental problem solving, but it is not the route to free energy. Try zero-point/aether, strange electromagnetic or thermodynamic effects, CF and the like. Maybe RQM, or even the SMOT if you got a solid result from that one. There could be a useful relationship between thermodynamics and magnetism there. Those are the places where the action is. But simple mechanical wheel devices have been dead for a very long time. They do not work, and never did. I know I'll probably get flak for this, but frankly, discussions about gizmos like the Bessler wheel make this list and the otherwise worthy search for free energy look rather silly. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 13:27:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27508; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:26:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:26:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: ksmith@pop.ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:31:24 -1200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"oWVDz3.0.gj6.A2Qbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Those are the places where the >action is. But simple mechanical wheel devices have been dead for a very >long time. They do not work, and never did. > >I know I'll probably get flak for this, but frankly, discussions about >gizmos like the Bessler wheel make this list and the otherwise worthy >search for free energy look rather silly. > >- Rick Monteverde Rick, you may well get flak, but not from me - well said. Local gravity is a closed system and you can draw all the diagrams and vector arrows you like. The bottom line is that the weights must eventually be returned to the start position. The only closed loop you CAN possibly get from such a system is the sum of the vectors. Add friction and say goodnight. It is a superficially atractive idea, but not one that survives even casual inspection. Bessler was a fraudster. He may have pulled it over simpler minds in his own time, but no-one with any, even basic, physics should fall for this nowadays. As for all the mind games with the text - well amuse yourself if you will. A scam is a scam, only the language has changed a little over the centuries.... Sorry to be so negative and some of the posts on the topic are quite amusing. However Rick's comment about the 'list's' reputation are very valid.... Ken Ken Smith (ksmith@ihug.co.nz) http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ksmith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 14:03:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10941; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:02:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:02:55 -0800 X-ROUTED: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:58:36 -0500 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Paula Message-ID: <3495D270.A746C769@southconn.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:59:28 -0800 From: steve/paula Organization: Sisters of Silicon, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DLYm7.0.ng2.EaQbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I took a look at "uncles Perpetual Motion Toy" at http://www.keelynet.com/energy/mptoy.htm and at first glance said to myself, this would never work, a marble going down a spiral ramp will have approximately the same energy at the bottom, as it would if it fell in a vertical direction....because force of gravity, causing speed, is the same... Woke up this morning with another thought, there are two forces working on the marble, one is gravity, and the other is centrifugal force.... My question is, is there any way to release a marble at the bottom of a spiral ramp, in such a manner that the centrifugal force will add to the gravitational force.... My thinking is, that in whatever vector you release the marble in, the resultant force will be less than the gravitational....it has been to long since I had vector analysis, and am not sure...any help would be appreciated... thanks....steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 15:00:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25882; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:00:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:00:10 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:59:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712152259.OAA15401@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"xnrqP3.0.HK6.vPRbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jerry and all, Many years ago I tried to build my first "classic" perpetual motion machine, a disk with slots in in that ball bearings could roll in. The disk was mounted on an axle. The slots were not quite radial, but had a slant, so that the balls would roll outward on one side, the side I wanted to rotate down, and inward on the other side, going up. Sadly, it did not run, :-(, it took the same potential energy to raise the balls as that gained on the fall +friction. Did Bessler find a way?? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 15:01:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11926; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:00:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:00:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:59:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712152259.OAA15433@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: bitter solenoid Resent-Message-ID: <"wPOHc2.0.Ew2.SQRbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Mark, At 04:47 AM 12/15/97 PST, you wrote: >I'm a new reader to this digest. And understand there existed a >discussion on the Bitter Solenoid. I saw a page that showed pictures of >the frogs floating in the tube. I find this very interesting. >My question is, are there any publicly available plans to build one for >demonstration purposes? Or is it too dangerous for classroom >environment?? > I think the frogs are in the bore of a superconducting magnet that generated about 17 Tesla B field. A Bitter solenoid is one that was wound with copper tubing, water cooled, so many kW could be dissipated. They were not superconducting, but the water turned out to be a very efficient heat sink. He achieved large fields, but I don't remember how much. For some of his experiments, he connected them directly at a power generating station, during off-peak hours. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 16:01:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23348; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:01:15 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:01:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3495E0AE.42EE@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:00:14 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h3lgy1.0.gi5.8JSbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rick! Flak time or laundry time? Well, none of the other dialogue here has yielded a single working anything regarding free energy...and the SMOT has taken in a lot of people, by their own admissions. My feeling is, if it has to be a mechanical approach, so be it. Though most, including me, prefer a solid state, non-radioactive ZPE tap. The problem with PPMs is the term perpetual...it is definitely a misnomer and needs to be changed to something else because people can't seem to get over that word....there is no question no mechanical device is perpetual....the word should be seen as simply 'self-running'. As to cold fusion, it has long been my opinion that it is nothing more than a chemical battery whose components need replacing due to the 'dirt' that seems to be transmuted in the process, thereby contaminating the process. But I don't generally say much about cold fusion because there seems to be a church around it...like some of the Tesla devotees....nothing exists beyond Tesla, Tesla invented everything of worth...etc... I have always been a fan of Tesla but of many others also, Schauberger, Moray, Hubbard, Hendershot, Clem, Keely, Schappeller, Searl and dozens of other apocryphal and generally unreproduced claims which have not been duplicated and thus are unproven in our time.. Don't go off here, I know some of Teslas' devices are in use now, but who else in that list?? And if you do some homework, you'll see that much of Teslas' claimed discoveries came from some one else. Back to cold fusion, I asked Gene if there had been any kind of long running cold fusion device and he said no, the problem remains with the contamination by transmutation. So, if there are to be limits to discussion based on what is considered to be rules of physics (as they are currently understood), better to shut this bad daddy down now. Flakes is flakes, when someone demonstrates something that works, then all eyes and minds will definitely turn to it...so far that hasn't happened and we all keep limping along....I'm ready for that leap in whatever direction it happens to take. We get older, people are dying in this field and still nada.... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 16:16:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11721; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:15:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:15:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3495E447.79CA@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:15:35 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? References: <3495D270.A746C769@southconn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3x85F1.0.us2.nWSbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve! Well, when Bruce first mentioned this, I got a hoot out of it....then asked for details, then wrote up that story as it might be possible...he swears he saw it and there was no power... The way I looked at it then and now....you have a single marble that weighs a given amount. When the marble is dropped, you have the gravity induced force of inertia...weight a rock in your hand, set it on your head...did it hurt? Now, throw that rock into the air a few feet, letting it hit your head...did it hurt? To me, gravity added to the weight, what is it 32 feet per second maximum velocity??? So, if you have a marble and you let it roll down a smooth ramp, when it hits a flap, just like pinball, it will cause that flap to move with some force......if the marbles mentioned in the story get going fast enough, when they hit the flap that causes the conveyor to advance, then it all works...now a matter of opening flaps to let marbles onto the conveyor, kick it up a notch, and dropping out the marble as it reaches the top... Talk about winning the Rube Goldberg prize...not to mention a VERY POPULAR executive and kids toy.....no batteries.......there isn't as much of this kind of tinkering today as there used to be...a shame as I am sure there were many versions of these gravity, inertia driven devices.... Just think, if you get this one to work, it will open the door for all kinds of other variations....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 16:35:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28540; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:34:53 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:34:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3495CC1E.F21A6A21@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:32:31 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BMdL71.0.rz6.hoSbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You are looking at it in a rather simplistic way, but you must remember that there is more than the potential field of gravity, there is also inertia (which IS *variable), and it is my belief that Bessler's wheel and Uncles toy both work due to the greater speed of the descending masses to the acceding ones, I have a theory that explains this, remember besslers wheel was not weighted unevenly because it would not start spinning on it's own but would only after given a starting impulse. *note: variable inertia is real, that is how unidirectional propulsion devices work, the faster you accelerate a mass the less inertia it lakes to get to a certain speed, equal and opposite is only true when the masses are the same. almost all of these devices work this way including the orbital ones, but the most honest of these devices is Bull's Impuse impact device. John Berry Ken Smith wrote: > >Those are the places where the > >action is. But simple mechanical wheel devices have been dead for a very > >long time. They do not work, and never did. > > > >I know I'll probably get flak for this, but frankly, discussions about > >gizmos like the Bessler wheel make this list and the otherwise worthy > >search for free energy look rather silly. > > > >- Rick Monteverde > > Rick, > you may well get flak, but not from me - well said. > > Local gravity is a closed system and you can draw all the diagrams and > vector arrows you like. The bottom line is that the weights must eventually > be returned to the start position. The only closed loop you CAN possibly > get from such a system is the sum of the vectors. Add friction and say > goodnight. > > It is a superficially atractive idea, but not one that survives even casual > inspection. Bessler was a fraudster. He may have pulled it over simpler > minds in his own time, but no-one with any, even basic, physics should fall > for this nowadays. As for all the mind games with the text - well amuse > yourself if you will. A scam is a scam, only the language has changed a > little over the centuries.... > > Sorry to be so negative and some of the posts on the topic are quite > amusing. However Rick's comment about the 'list's' reputation are very > valid.... > > Ken > > > > Ken Smith (ksmith@ihug.co.nz) > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ksmith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 17:00:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02379; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:00:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:00:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3495EE7A.6C6A@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:59:06 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e72VI2.0.4b.IATbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken! Simpler minds, eh.....list reputation eh? Read some of the past posts for humor or the want to believe syndrome... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 17:17:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05668; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:16:55 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:16:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3495F26A.1CF0@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:15:54 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <199712152259.OAA15401@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"al2XW1.0.TO1.4QTbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave! I don't claim to have the complete secret to Bessler (and as far as I know, no one else does either)...like others, I've been working from clues in John Collins book, that describe the various components and how they worked...the basic idea is simple, implementing it will be another matter entirely. I am gathering the parts for my model....the only way to know is to build.....it will be interesting to see if it works, and if it does, to watch all the reaction from those who'd rather not even discuss such 'proven' frauds...never mind that it ran for two months unattended in its longest test. Of course, all those scientists and mechanicians were fools and simple minds back then, so they must have been taken in.....ah, the mighty that we have become.... One thing Tesla said that I completely agree with, mathematics cannot always predict real world reactions. Tesla said the only way to know if something would work for sure was to build it. He refused to decide validity based on math projections alone. Rather than study a book with more details than have ever been available on the Orffyreus engine, to some SMOTs are more interesting (morphed TOMIs that a 12 year old girl built which won a science fair prize here)....Dennis Lee and Stan Meyer will be the next investment........we shall see... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 17:36:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08932; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:35:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:35:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:34:15 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712131844.KAA09969@mx2.eskimo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"GmNiq.0.FB2.JhTbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com As a member of Energy-L list I thought you might be interested in Project SCYBOLT(tm) which needs the tithes and offerings of such men and women whose hearts are stirred up by the LORD. Come and see: http://www.teleport.com/~singtech The LORD is about to bring a great destruction upon the Earth as has been foretold of many prophets. Also HE is bringing about a new thing and a new energy source for use in the Sabbath Day of the GREAT GOD. If this message is offensive to you and if you cannot tolerate the idea of GOD teaching men a New and Apocalyptic Physics then this message was not for you - but if you believe the Living GOD reigns sovereign in every area of men's lives including Physics then you need to visit this website and consider HOW you shall exercise your faith. When Moses was shown the plan of the Ark of the Coventant, GOD then sent to his side men in to whom GOD had put Great Wisdom and Understanding (who did the actual building). Likewise GOD stirred up the hearts of men and women to give a freewill offering for the Ark and for all the furniture and instruments of the Temple. Let your heart now likewise be stirred up to give an offering to this work. AMEN. Best Regards, Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 17:36:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA31737; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:35:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:35:33 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:35:23 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"finrd3.0.ol7.ahTbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com As a member of Energy-L list I thought you might be interested in Project SCYBOLT(tm) which needs the tithes and offerings of such men and women whose hearts are stirred up by the LORD. Come and see: http://www.teleport.com/~singtech The LORD is about to bring a great destruction upon the Earth as has been foretold of many prophets. Also HE is bringing about a new thing and a new energy source for use in the Sabbath Day of the GREAT GOD. If this message is offensive to you and if you cannot tolerate the idea of GOD teaching men a New and Apocalyptic Physics then this message was not for you - but if you believe the Living GOD reigns sovereign in every area of men's lives including Physics then you need to visit this website and consider HOW you shall exercise your faith. When Moses was shown the plan of the Ark of the Covenant, GOD then sent to his side men in to whom GOD had put Great Wisdom and Understanding (who did the actual building). Likewise GOD stirred up the hearts of men and women to give a freewill offering for the Ark and for all the furniture and instruments of the Temple. Let your heart now likewise be stirred up to give an offering to this work. AMEN. Best Regards, Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 17:46:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02321; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:46:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:46:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3495DCD6.7746@darknet.net> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:43:50 -0500 From: Steve Reply-To: darklord@darknet.net Organization: DarkNet Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_Rvt53.0.2a.hrTbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > The LORD is about to bring a great destruction upon the Earth as has >been foretold of many prophets. Uh oh.. I hope this doesn't start another arguement about religion.. ;) -Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 17:52:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03689; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:52:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:52:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3495FAF5.1F15@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:52:21 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8MA_l1.0.Uv.TxTbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Your honors, I rest my case... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 18:01:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06389; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:00:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:00:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971215213850.00985570@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:38:54 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"a1Zk9.0.iZ1.G3Ubq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com C. Cagle writes >>>If this message is offensive to you and if you cannot tolerate the idea of >>>GOD teaching men a New and Apocalyptic Physics then this message was not >>>for you - but if you believe the Living GOD reigns sovereign in every area >>>of men's lives including Physics then you need to visit this website and >>>consider HOW you shall exercise your faith. Yes, this is offensive to me. As a man of REASON, I find it most distasteful that some rather primitive mythology is being used to seduce the naive into sending their hard earned money to some huckster. If GOD wants something done here, I doubt he needs our money to do it. I've never said this to anyone on a listserv, and hope I never have to again. get lost. you're not wanted here. KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 18:22:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13161; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:21:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:21:58 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:21:49 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971215213850.00985570@cnct.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"3sqb91.0.SD3.3NUbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com KPN wrote: >C. Cagle writes > >>>>If this message is offensive to you and if you cannot tolerate the idea of >>>>GOD teaching men a New and Apocalyptic Physics then this message was not >>>>for you - but if you believe the Living GOD reigns sovereign in every area >>>>of men's lives including Physics then you need to visit this website and >>>>consider HOW you shall exercise your faith. > >Yes, this is offensive to me. As a man of REASON, I find it most distasteful >that some rather primitive mythology is being used to seduce the naive into >sending their hard earned money to some huckster. If GOD wants something >done here, I doubt he needs our money to do it. You are right. HE doesn't need our money for HE has the whole universe. What we need, on the other hand, to escape his destruction is Faith. Parting with material wealth towards a project of GOD whether it be the feeding of the hungry, the building of the Ark of the Covenant, or any other matter of the kingdom is an exercise of FAITH. The scripture states in Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) "But without faith {it is} impossible to please {him}: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and {that} he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." But those who would rather hold onto their money rob GOD of HIS appointed tithes and offerings. Malachi 3:8 (KJV) "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings." Why? Because of a lack of faith. You have no evidence that what I have posted is wrong and only rise up with your venom filled response. I on the other hand suggest you read the content of the website and refute what you can with REASON since you said you are a 'man of REASON'. Nevertheless we don't see REASON from you here at all but rather a vituperative attack. Hypocrite. >I've never said this to anyone on a listserv, and hope I never have to again. > >get lost. you're not wanted here. > >KPN Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 18:26:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15061; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:26:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:26:11 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3495D270.A746C769@southconn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:26:36 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"ZPPfK.0.2h3.0RUbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Steve wrote: > My question is, is there any way to release a marble at > the bottom of a spiral ramp, in such a manner that the > centrifugal force will add to the gravitational force... In tests, objects which are riding on the rim of a spinning object are released. The centrifugal force disappears at the moment of release - the path taken is exactly tangental to the circular motion at the point of release. However an object in motion from the center of a wheel outwards while spinning does move with a radial component when released due to momentum it gathered while moving towards the rim. But this energy is taken out of the wheel's spinning energy, and is accounted for too. There might be some odd things about spinning mass though. It keeps coming up - odd electrical and magnetic effects, possible gravitational or mass effects, etc. I have copies of some patents by Henry Wallace which Rob Dowse sent me which I'm about to post on the web (still scanning one of them - I blew it and had to start over. White text on a white background looks so nice - sheesh)- they're missing from the IBM server for some reason. They involve an anomalous force arising from rotating masses. It might erase black pixels in GIFs too, I'm not sure. Ever hear the one about the sprouts over a rotating turntable? Allegedly they lean in towards the center as they grow. The sprouts aren't rotating - there's a turntable of some sort underneath whatever they're being supported on. Weird, huh? I wonder if that's true. Shouldn't be too hard to check. Then there's the one about the rotating superconductor... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 18:29:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16030; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:28:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:28:59 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971215220653.00971c68@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:06:57 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kNOcE3.0.Lw3.eTUbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave Dameron writes : >Yes, I can see the voltage doubled from one magnet by V= velocity*length*Bfield, >if the voltages from each magnet are added. The right one has the Negative >velocity and Bfield, so it (voltage) adds. But if the B fields add to zero >all along the wire?? However the flux through the loop of wire (including >the voltmeter leads) is changing, even if the field AT the wire =O, as well >as dB/dt there. Reminds me of motor wires embedded in iron so they see very >little field themselves, but still act as motors/generators. Also the >Homopolar generator leads where the disk and magnet rotate together. >Somewhere I read a while ago, an explanation of the equivalence of these 2 >means of induction via Maxwell's eqns, will look for it. Yes, thats correct. I was delighted to see JNL replicate this experiment. Best reference I have to this is LV Bewleys "Flux Linkages and Electromagentic Induction" a Dover Press edition. This ought to be required reading for the O/U crowd, as it addresses many of the oddities of E&M ( such as the homopolar motor ) in a concise and entertaining style. A more interesting experiment would be to switch the polarity of one magnet and achieve cancellation. Would you not have flux but no induction? Come on Jean-Louis, this would really cause heads to be scratched :) KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 18:33:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19649; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:32:48 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:32:48 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:32:30 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"LerAV3.0.wo4.EXUbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ken - > The only closed loop you CAN possibly get from such a > system is the sum of the vectors. Yup. And it's by just summing the vectors as you said - resolving them, that it's so easy to visually see why the wheel won't work. To have weights continually pulling down on one side, you have to be continually lifting them up somewhere else. That fact does tend to get lost in the drawings and general discussions speculating on mechanisms, centrifugal force and so forth, but comes back clearly into focus if you accept mechanical details as a set of givens (all spring balanced, well oiled and highly efficient), look only at the true motions of the working elements with respect to each other and the lab frame, and resolve down to simplest form. For anybody not yet seeing this, consider the weights moving in pairs - one moves out from the axis at the same moment another one elsewhere moves in towards the axis. Consider a counterclockwise moving wheel, and the weights in action at the 6 and 12 o'clock positions. The one at 12 moves outboard away from the axis, and the one at 6 moves inboard towards the axis. The left side is the 'heavy' side. In both cases, the weight must move 'up'. Up from 6 to go inboard, up from 12 to move outboard. Any variation on the theme - 11 o'clock 5 o'clock, or 2 and 4 - whatever, is just degrees of the same. Still rotating counterclockwise, moving weights out at 9 and in at 3 is the worst: no more weightlifting since their path is now horizontal in both cases, but now the entire lower hemisphere stays heavy while the upper half is light! I hope we're done with this wheel. But if Jerry's going to build one, or if everybody wants to keep going on and on about how it could work, that's fine I guess. Open discussion is important, and real experiment much better yet. I mispoke when I said we shouldn't discuss it. I really meant that we shouldn't *have* to and we do look silly thinking it might work, but...And I wish Jean-Louis would come back and tell us about his experiments. I promise to be really really careful about my criticism! :) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 18:41:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21421; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:40:49 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:40:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971215221804.00971c68@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:18:07 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re : Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BQd7z2.0.cE5.leUbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com JLN writes : >The Monstein-Barnett demonstrate that : >- when a simple iron cylinder which turn in high speed (about >2500 RPM) >around its main axis a magnetic field is generated and can be measured with a >hall probe, >- when the spin is reversed the magnetic field change its direction, >This effect is directly linked to the Oliver Crane's theory which said that >the Quantum field medium can be driven by the matter in rotation. >I have planed this experiment soon, and also I have the video about the >original experiment and all the original experimal test results and >calculation. How is this any different from Barnetts original experiment, or Einstein-deHass for that matter? More to the point, how does RQM interpret the results of this experiment differently? By the way, these experiments led directly to the notion that magnetism is caused by the spin of the electron itself, rather than the motion of the electron about the nucleus. And of historical note; Barnett proposed this as a mechanism for the generation of the earths magnetic field. He was I am afraid incorrect in this regard, but an excellent stab at an explanation nonetheless. I'm delighted that you have undertaken to reproduce these experiments, and would be happy to find references for the original experiments. At the risk of repeating myself, please try and reverse the polarity of one magnet, and publish results! If I'm not mistaken, you should see flux but no resulting voltage. KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 18:42:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19421; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:42:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:42:12 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3495E0AE.42EE@keelynet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:42:36 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"CK_zL.0.Bl4.2gUbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jerry - > So, if there are to be limits to discussion based on > what is considered to be rules of physics (as they are > currently understood), better to shut this bad daddy > down now. Yeah, I overstepped my intentions when I wrote in effect 'these discussions are not good'. I take that back. Discussion is good, and the answers come out that way. Those who don't understand it work it out so they don't have to make that mistake again. Fair enough. But I do turn away at the point in discussions where it's strongly suggested, as you did, that a hole as dry as the Bessler wheel could very well be the one to quench our thirst if we would only dig it out just a little deeper. There are many more productive avenues, and a pointer away from a dead end is about as good as one towards something promising, whereas a pointer *towards* a dead end is a roadblock. > We get older, people are dying in this field and still > nada.... My point exactly. We should be focussing on finding potentially productive areas, then working towards solutions in those areas. If you're going to experiment with wheels, why don't you try sprouting some seeds over a rotating turntable? Remember that one? Even if no anomalous force is indicated by sprouts leaning in towards the axis line of the rotating mass, at least you can put the results in a salad. And maybe your Bessler wheel would make a very interesting lazy susan for build-your-own taco nights! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 18:48:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23329; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:48:07 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:48:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971215204623.007494ec@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:46:23 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: bitter solenoid In-Reply-To: <199712152259.OAA15433@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kGeol.0.Gi5.XlUbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Mike, All.... >At 04:47 AM 12/15/97 PST, Mark wrote: >>I'm a new reader to this digest. And understand there existed a >>discussion on the Bitter Solenoid. I saw a page that showed pictures of >>the frogs floating in the tube. I find this very interesting. >>My question is, are there any publicly available plans to build one for >>demonstration purposes? Or is it too dangerous for classroom >>environment?? You might want to contact the Francis Bitter National Magnet Laboratory in Massachusetts (which is associated with MIT I believe.) They have released some PR material over the years which may be useful to you. The effects of strong magnetic fields on the human body are not fully understood, so you should be cautious. One thing that is known, is that movement of blood in a magnetic field, like any moving conductor, will generate a current. Fibrillation may be induced by currents as small as 6 micro-Amps when applied directly to the heart. Best Regards, Jack ---------------------------------------------------------- "I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering." -Steven Wright mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 19:20:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27954; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:19:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:19:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971215225757.009741b0@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:58:00 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JzCqk.0.cq6.SDVbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sorry for wasting bandwidth here folks, but lets try this again... This listserv was instituted to allow members to exchange ideas concerning alternative sources of energy. I would be happy to discuss such things with you provided you adhere to the rules of this listserv. In particular, rules... 1. Heavy on experimentalism. Or theory-led experiments. Or theoretical implications of experiments. This is not a forum for all those controversial physics theories being ignored by mainstream science. Try NEOTECH for those. But if your theory leads directly to interesting, testable, real-world phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental possibilites. If your experiments reveal anomalies not predicted by ANY theory, definitely jump right in and discuss your findings. Also it's very acceptable to publish theoretical work on a web page and announce its presence here. and 6. "Junkmail" email advertizing will not be tolerated. While not illegal, widecasting of junk email ads to listserv sites is against the Unwritten Rules of the Internet. Anyone who spams freenrg-list with off-topic advertizing will be referred to the Internet Vigilante Justice team. ;) Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular freenrg-list users is acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich quick schemes no. Note: WEIRD SCIENCE now has a free for-sale area. And before you jump on me regarding the last sentence of rule 1, bear in mind that I've been to your site and find little about physics and a heck of a lot about how to send you money. And nowhere in the charter does it say this exists as a discussion forum concerning god. If you honestly want to help humanity, please post here regarding experiments you have done or technical discussion of your theories concerning atomic energy. You will find a very receptive audience. If you find your ideas difficult to back up without copious biblical quotes, I recommend you meditate on the difference between faith, upon which religion rests, and proof, upon which science rests. And remember which institution this listserv was established to service. KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 19:41:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA31229; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:41:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:41:38 -0800 X-ROUTED: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:37:16 -0500 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Paula Message-ID: <349621B2.E4EBD433@southconn.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:37:38 -0800 From: steve/paula Organization: Sisters of Silicon, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? References: <3495D270.A746C769@southconn.com> <3495E447.79CA@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lKH5m2.0.sd7.nXVbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jerry it doesn't matter whether you drop the marble, or let it down a ramp, the maximum speed will be the same, raising it to a certain height gives it potential energy, the most you can get out is that same energy....you need to get back more energy in order to raise the next marble up that gravity ramp....I am wondering if centrifical force will give you that extra energy....hope I explained this part of it ok.. steve Jerry wrote: > Hi Steve! > swears he saw it and there was no power... > The way I looked at it then and now....you have a single marble that > weighs a given amount. When the marble is dropped, you have the gravity > induced force of inertia...weight a rock in your hand, set it on your To me, gravity added to the > weight, what is it 32 feet per second maximum velocity??? > So, if you have a marble and you let it roll down a smooth ramp, when it > hits a flap, just like pinball, it will cause that flap to move with some > force......if the marbles mentioned in the story get going fast enough, > when they hit the flap that causes the conveyor to advance, then it all > works...now a matter of opening flaps to let marbles onto the conveyor, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 19:47:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA32390; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:47:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:47:15 -0800 Message-ID: <349615D9.2C22@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:47:05 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2axux.0._v7.2dVbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Mr. Cagle! I have read the content of your website and have your URL posted for not only the SCYBOLT but also your thoughts on CMEs and their possible effect on the earth. You and Stan Deyo were recently on Art Bell and discussed these solar flares which would affect the earth over the next 30 days. As you notice, this list is named for freenrg whose definition might include your SCYBOLT electrical generator. If you don't mind, could you answer a couple of questions, 1. Is it true you have never built a SCYBOLT unit, that it is currently theoretical? 2. Why do you feel the claims for the SCYBOLT unit must be linked to any religious beliefs or statements? If the technology is valid, it should be able to stand alone without the need to be linked to God or Christianity. Not to be deprecating, but are you uncertain of the SCYBOLT claims or do you think this will serve to draw attention from those without any technical background who will not question anything which is claimed to be god-inspired? I just can't understand why you don't represent SCYBOLT on its own merit as a possible revolutionary new energy producing technology and without the constraints of any religious attachment. Thanks... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 19:55:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01495; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:54:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:54:16 -0800 X-ROUTED: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:49:54 -0500 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Paula Message-ID: <3496249C.E2B104FF@southconn.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:50:04 -0800 From: steve/paula Organization: Sisters of Silicon, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E_5_k.0.EN.cjVbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Steve wrote: > > > My question is, is there any way to release a marble at > > the bottom of a spiral ramp, in such a manner that the > > centrifugal force will add to the gravitational force... > > In tests, objects which are riding on the rim of a spinning object are > released. The centrifugal force disappears at the moment of release - Thanks Rick...that explains it...now where does the force go .... > Ever hear the one about the sprouts over a rotating turntable? Allegedly > they lean in towards the center as they grow. The sprouts aren't rotating - Have heard of it,, but do not have a green thumb, so have never tried it, sounds like a good science project...if you did try it you would have to be real careful where you placed the growing light....if in the middle would make it look like it works.....thanks...steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 20:14:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05711; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:13:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:13:51 -0800 Message-ID: <34961C15.646E@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:13:41 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rJPUE.0.3P1.-_Vbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Rick! I remember those experiments with sprouts over turntables...they were very interesting...man, you must be a geezer too.....!! A question for you (and all who are relying on their 'current' knowledge of the Orffyreus story), have you read John Collins book on the Bessler wheel? If not, then you are out of date....if you have, then at least you've done some homework on it beyond the old stories (including the one from 1956 that I posted). The bottomline....(prefaced by a definition of a working O/U device = a self-running machine that can also do work, available as plans THAT WORK, as a kit that you can buy or as a complete unit); a) Freenrg-l activities hasn't produced a single working device... b) none of the KeelyNet material or activities have produced a working device.... c) none of the Vortex-l activities have produced a working device d) nothing that I've seen or heard of on the InterNet (2 years now) has shown a working device (also preceded by 2 years offline) e) no magazine, periodical or newsletter has produced a working device f) AND no conference has produced a working device. So, haven't we all been chasing our tails up to this point? We need something different, even if it seems to be irrational based on math, vector analysis, our current understanding of physics or just digging in 'a hole as dry as the Bessler wheel'. Just hide and watch....if it fails, I'll report it, if it works, I'll report it....we all learn from our mistakes (should) and I (think I) see potential (no pun intended) here that those who haven't read the book, heck some who have, might not see.... Perhaps I am deluding myself (I'm not alone based on the emails I and John Collins get about it), but there are many others who are also fascinated by the shifting weight idea....some quite famous, but I won't drop names out of respect. In the proper vernacular, "Away ye flames, ye Cavendish balances, ye SMOTs, ye cold fusion arguments, ye Greenpeace, ye flying frogs, ye reposts and catfights; all that awakeneth NOT the imagination and the WILL to build the future." -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 21:05:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15191; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:04:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:04:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349627D2.38CE@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:03:46 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? References: <3495D270.A746C769@southconn.com> <3495E447.79CA@keelynet.com> <349621B2.E4EBD433@southconn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Hue2y3.0.Gj3.hlWbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Steve! Bruce told me the story and I wrote it up...he says it worked and his cousins (their father, built it) verified that it was self-running. Choices: a) he lied, he was young and his cousins are pulling his chain by verifying a false memory (heaven forbid) b) it had a hidden windup mechanism c) it had an rat, hamster or other animal driving a conveyor d) it had an electrical device (solenoid/motor) e) it was driven by potato or lemon power f) it had magnets that were not noticed (still ppm) or my favorite; g) it used a simple mechanical or amplifying principal that we are too sophisticated to understand Check out the Macrosonix website ( http://www.macronix.com ) about their mechanical cavity to compress sound....something new, hardly, Keely claimed to have done it back in the 1880s. Sound currently can produce refrigeration or heat, just the beginning....doesn't that sound hard to believe, but its real. Again, years and years of talk, speculation and rehashing old and new claims, still nothing that works from the alternative science community...isn't that odd? I vote for lateral thinking, today! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 21:06:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14495; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:06:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:06:28 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:06:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712160506.VAA21394@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"n3yWo.0.OY3.JnWbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan, At 01:32 PM 12/15/97 +0100, you wrote: >Again in MIME format as some requested ! Thanks! >Hi all ! > >I have made a GIF about my idea... > >Maybe at the right side the weights are pushed via the stand >into the center towards the axis, thus reducing the weight of this >side, so the whole wheel rotates to the left side ??? Interesting idea. This could have been mounted on the inside of the wheel and geared to the wheel to keep it vertical. >Maybe someone can do a vector force analysis of this setup ? > >Regards, Stefan. > >Attachment Converted: E:\EARTHLNK\EUDORA\BESSLER2.GIF >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net > Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 21:41:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19765; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:41:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:41:05 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:40:57 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <349615D9.2C22@keelynet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"9_EnM1.0.hq4.lHXbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jerry Decker of Keelynet writes: >Hello Mr. Cagle! > >I have read the content of your website and have your URL posted for not >only the SCYBOLT but also your thoughts on CMEs and their possible effect >on the earth. > >You and Stan Deyo were recently on Art Bell and discussed these solar >flares which would affect the earth over the next 30 days. Whoa there! I never stated that any solar flares would effect the earth to any appreciable extent over the next 30 days so please don't start off this discussion by putting words into my mouth. >As you notice, this list is named for freenrg whose definition might >include your SCYBOLT electrical generator. > >If you don't mind, could you answer a couple of questions, > > 1. Is it true you have never built a SCYBOLT unit, that it is currently > theoretical? Why don't you go read the introduction to the site: http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/introduction.html where you can find the answer to your question. > 2. Why do you feel the claims for the SCYBOLT unit must be linked to > any religious beliefs or statements? Because the physics behind the SCYBOLT(tm) design was given to me by GOD. Pretty simple, eh? Read the introduction at the website and you will get more info on the subject. >If the technology is valid, it should be able to stand alone without the >need to be linked to God or Christianity. I stand by the source which is GOD. If you think that this technology is going to enter the world without it also being a witness to the LIVING GOD from whence it came, you are sadly mistaken. >Not to be deprecating, but are >you uncertain of the SCYBOLT claims or do you think this will serve >to draw attention from those without any technical background who will >not question anything which is claimed to be god-inspired? Quit playing the hypocrite here. Your comments are meant to be 'deprecating' but I don't mind because your duplicity is so obvious. The thing that you accuse me of doing is modern science's methods, not mine. I would hope to draw skilled men and women of GOD who have skills in science to this project based upon the idea that if they are truly led of GOD they are going to be very quick studies as to the physics. >I just can't understand why you don't represent SCYBOLT on its own >merit as a possible revolutionary new energy producing technology and >without the constraints of any religious attachment. Thanks... Its own merit is that it came from GOD. Why is it that you hate the idea of GOD ruling supreme in the area of science? Perhaps it is simply because you actually hate GOD? I can imagine that this is the case since the bulk of your post is to rise in opposition to this idea. You wrote on one of your Keelynet pages: "Keep in mind, it does not matter WHO makes the breakthroughs we all seek, nor WHERE the information is first released, all that matters is that it IS released and that it WORKS AS DETAILED." But I think you are proving yourself to be a liar here because it obviously does matter who makes the breakthroughs. You don't want any breakthroughs from someone who claims the breakthroughs are coming from GOD. Hypocrite. You feel free to preach your humanism religion by such statements as: "One billion dollars over ten years for charities. We could change the face of the earth and society with just 1/10th of that. That includes the elimination of all poverty, hunger and disease through alternative technology." But if someone asks for men and women of GOD (now you must understand that this appeal for support is specifically not to such as yourself) to exercise faith and contribute to a work of GOD then you take umbrage. The fact is that poverty, hunger and disease come upon the earth for a want of men and women of good will, not for a lack of technology. You suppose that some Star Trek technology will eliminate hunger and poverty but wouldn't give a moment's consideration that if people merely adhered to GOD's laws that there wouldn't be those maladies in the first place. It is amazing that you believe in Star Trek but not in GOD. Of course, since you stem from people who believe only those who jabber in tongues can have any real connection with GOD it is no wonder that you left them. But it is sad that having discovered the falsehood of that doctrinal group that you then turned to mysticism and away from GOD. No wonder you object to what I have to say because what I have to say is that most of the crap you believe in is pure unadulterated nonsense. So for all of the crap fake technologies and stories of energy breakthroughs that you have hosted on Keelynet you have great respect but for the SCYBOLT(tm) related technology, because it is claimed that it is given of GOD, you have no respect at all. Let's make sure that your motivations are clearly in the light for all to see. Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 21:48:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20961; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:48:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:48:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:48:08 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971215225757.009741b0@cnct.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"L5lmO3.0.K75.XOXbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keith Nagel wrote: >Sorry for wasting bandwidth here folks, but lets try this again... Glad you admit that much of what you say below is a waste of bandwidth. >This listserv was instituted to allow members to exchange ideas >concerning alternative sources of energy. The SCYBOLT(tm) reactor design is the energy of the next millinnium. >I would be happy to >discuss such things with you provided you adhere to the >rules of this listserv. In particular, rules... > >1. Heavy on experimentalism. Or theory-led experiments. Or theoretical > implications of experiments. This is not a forum for all those > controversial physics theories being ignored by mainstream science. Try > NEOTECH for those. But if your theory leads directly to interesting, > testable, real-world phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental > possibilites. If your experiments reveal anomalies not predicted by ANY > theory, definitely jump right in and discuss your findings. Also it's > very acceptable to publish theoretical work on a web page and announce its > presence here. As a matter of fact the physics I discuss at the website does lead directly to interesting testable real world phenomena. >And before you jump on me regarding the last sentence of rule 1, bear >in mind that I've been to your site and find little about physics and >a heck of a lot about how to send you money. This is a flat lie on your part Keith. There is page after page of new physics and a single page which encourages those with faith to contribute offerings to the development of the SCYBOLT(tm) reactor. Why you wish to present it in another light only means that you actually can't stand the TRUTH. Don't ever suppose that you can get by with such dishonesty with me again. You can't. > And nowhere in the charter >does it say this exists as a discussion forum concerning god. Does it say anywhere in the charter that GOD cannot be discussed? The fact is that he who would separate GOD from physics will excel in a knowledge of neither. This means you, Keith, and everyone who so supports your perverted vision of reality. It has become very popular to decry the mention of GOD with respect to science and those who complain about the mention of GOD most loudly are generally the ones with the most to lose if Truth were to ascend in men's hearts instead of a belief in the false intellectual idols which men like you have erected in the temple of their being. >From the beginning of my research efforts more than twenty five years ago to the present, this Work has always been a Work which has been inspired and led every step of the way by the LIVING GOD. It first started as an investigation driven by a consuming fire of an interest in a natural phenomenon known as Ball Lightning (BL). It soon became evident that the LORD was accomplishing this work and providing instruction to me in these matters and that it all was pointing to technology which would be in use during the Millennial Reign of the Word of GOD upon the Earth. Nuclear fusion, when properly understood is the perfect metaphor for the generation of energy, for it depends upon a process whereby the interacting fuel nuclei obtain a state of rest with respect to one another so that they become attractively interactive and fuse into a single nucleus with the concomitant release of extraordinary amounts of energy. Virtually all attempts at harnessing nuclear fusion which have been esteemed by mainstream science to have a chance at success have been aimed at raising the temperature of the interacting nuclei with the pointed goal of accomplishing fusion by the brute force of colliding interacting fusion fuel nuclei into one another. Over forty years of effort by thousands of scientists at a conservatively estimated expense of forty to fifty billion dollars without any real success has shown the utter poverty of these ideas and approaches. Now, the LIVING GOD, before Whom I stand, has put the foundations of a New and Apocalyptic Physics in my hand which leads not only to the SCYBOLT(tm) reactor technology but also points to the destruction of the foundations of modern physics. It seems appropriate that the LIVING GOD should show Himself sovereign in the realm of every intellectual endeavor of mankind including physics which is the central foundation stone of all other sciences. It is not in my heart to reveal this New and Apocalyptic Physics to the world without a complete acknowledgement of its source Who, as the Sovereign Emperor of the Universe, has declared in HIS wisdom that the Mystery of GOD should, at last, be finished. It is appropriate that The Mystery of GOD should first destroy the foundations of modern science since through science men have sought most ardently to destroy the understanding and knowledge of GOD from the world. In this manner GOD has determined to make fools of the wise men of this world and to utterly cast them into the place of shame that all the world will see how they sought to obtain eternal life not through the counsel and will of GOD but rather through the vain works of their own hands. AMEN. This place of shame, Keith, is precisely where you will find yourself if you continue to fight against what GOD is bringing to pass in the world. >If you honestly want to help humanity, please post here regarding experiments >you have done or technical discussion of your theories concerning atomic >energy. You will find a very receptive audience. If you find your ideas >difficult to back up without copious biblical quotes, I recommend you >meditate on the difference between faith, upon which religion >rests, and proof, upon which science rests. There are few loads of crap as extensive as the one you just attempted to unload upon this audience, Keith. This can only mean that you are completely ignorant as to the foundational assumptions which form the base for modern physics. If you think modern science is founded upon 'proof' you are setting yourself up for a big fall and I am just the man who would quite enjoy taking you on the roller coaster ride of your life as far as the foundational priniciples of modern physics are concerned. You want a challange? Then I suggest you first prove, for example, that Coulomb's Law holds true, by experiment, for charged particles which have a common de Broglie wavelength which is greater than or equal to the interparticle distance. For a definition of a "common de Broglie wavelength" see: http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/definitions.html The fact is, that there isn't an experiment on record in the world which can prove that Coulomb's Law holds true under those conditions. In fact, the overwhelming evidence is that it doesn't hold true and hence much of modern physics, contrary to your boastful lying claim isn't based upon 'proof', as you say, but rather is based upon 'faith'. Unfortunately for you the 'faith' is easily shown to be as misplaced as your arrogant attitude and can just as easily be wiped away. >And remember which institution this listserv was established to service. Somehow I got the impression that it was established serve the advancement of science in the field of energy. Now you did write: >This listserv was instituted to allow members to exchange ideas concerning >alternative sources of energy. Why should you care whether this advancement or these ideas comes from men or from GOD? The reason that you object that they might come from GOD is very telling about you. You reject GOD, it is plain, so then any idea which is said to have come from GOD, you must also reject regardless of its true merits. Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 22:01:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21521; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:56:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:56:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:48:18 +1100 Message-Id: <199712160648.RAA29093@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@mail.sa.ozland.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: R:Address correction David Hamel photos and information Geocities site Resent-Message-ID: <"RQCRN3.0.AG5.7WXbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:52 PM 11/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > I have just added some information,diagrams and photos to my geocities site. about David Hamel .The David Hamel update page is a little slow because of the photos and drawings on it. If you like to help me further promote my website and the search for free and other energy research please vote for it, by registering a vote with the vote button displayed on my main index page and that will take you to the voting site to do this,if you consider my site of some value to you Thank you in advance Geoff Sorry to others that have tried to get my site it seems I had a Lower case r instead of the Capital "R" Sorry about that http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 22:42:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26193; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:42:26 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:42:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971216004047.00c9a040@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:40:47 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call In-Reply-To: References: <349615D9.2C22@keelynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hV1DA.0.8P6.FBYbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 21:40 12/15/97 -0800, C. Cagle wrote: >Why don't you go read the introduction to the site: > >http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/introduction.html where you can find the >answer to your question. OK.... Quoting from the introduction: "However, although we have not yet built a working prototype, the physical experimental proof now exists which demonstrates that the operating principles upon which the SCYBOLT(TM) design is founded represents a major breakthrough in modern physics and will lead to the successful construction of the world's first operating nuclear fusion reactor" Sounds exciting.... Quoting from a subsequent page under the heading, "A NEW CONCEPT OF FUSION": "We have demonstrated in theory and by experiment that like charged particles can have strong attractive interactions when they enter a common rest frame." This begs the question...where can we view the details of the experiment that proves this theory? I recognize that much of what we believe about quantum physics rests on extrapolation from observed data...and that requires a measure of faith. Many people have claimed to have God on their side, and turned out to be misguided, or worse...we have been warned to be wary of this in the Bible. Please, do not interpret my suspicion as a personal slight when I ask for physical proof. Experiments that are reproducible, which yield consistent data, would go far towards dispelling any doubts. Best Regards, Jack PS. The Shiva project was never intended to produce a self-sustaining fusion reaction. ---------------------------------------------------------- "I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering." -Steven Wright mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 22:45:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA31193; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:45:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:45:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199712160645.WAA11939@mailtod-111.bryant.webtv.net> From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:45:12 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"tFl7C.0.Id7.zDYbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, will a marble gain speed in a spiral,vortex? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 22:57:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00198; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:56:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:56:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:56:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712160656.WAA11876@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Meeting with RQM technologies. Resent-Message-ID: <"s_YZa.0.-2.mOYbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick Monteverde wrote: At 11:15 PM 12/14/97 -1000, you wrote: >Michael Randall wrote: > > > I didn't see any of these HV spikes at the RQM site. > > Where are they hidden under? Or are you thinking of > > the ATG site? > >At the RQM site, in document http://www.rqm.ch/eng/n010897e.htm Thanks for location. I missed this jewel amoungst the scant of info. at the site. Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 23:02:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29000; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:02:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:02:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34964364.1686@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:01:24 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"po7oK3.0.057.zTYbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! Well, Cagle has sure proven to me that he IS a nutcase....that's why Art Bell only had him on for a couple of hours, deciding to go to open phone lines, highly unusual for Bell. No more time or space in my world for this garbage, if I have to read it, it will come from a more reliable source, Bible, Koran, Qum Ran manuscripts, Dead Sea scrolls, not a self-appointed proselyte. My favorite quote to rabid Christian basket cases, "I'd rather RULE in Hell than SERVE in Heaven." my choice, goodnight Gracie -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 23:35:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11108; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:35:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:35:38 -0800 From: JNaudin509 Message-ID: <63d4dd28.34962e16@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:30:28 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: knagel@cnct.com, mrandall@earthlink.net, redesign@pavilion.co.uk, herman@antioch-college.edu, 101722.2050@compuserve.com, jlagarde@cyberaccess.fr, jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au, ddameron@earthlink.net, harti@harti.com Subject: More about the Hooper-Monstein Effect Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"6eWS32.0.Oj2.9zYbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 16/12/1997 07:15:09 , Keith Nagel wrote : << I'm delighted that you have undertaken to reproduce these experiments, and would be happy to find references for the original experiments. At the risk of repeating myself, please try and reverse the polarity of one magnet, and publish results! If I'm not mistaken, you should see flux but no resulting voltage. .............. A more interesting experiment would be to switch the polarity of one magnet and achieve cancellation. Would you not have flux but no induction? Come on Jean-Louis, this would really cause heads to be scratched :) KPN >> Hi Keith, Yes, you may freely scratch your head, but as far as I am concerned, I prefer to keep my head, cool and clear, I think that it is better for my health. :-) I have also tested this setup, when the two magnets are placed in same direction, you can measure B-Field with the Teslameter in the middle, but there is NO electromagnetic induction: The Motional E-Field is canceled. The Hooper-Monstein Effect -------------------------- ( fonts used for a better display : courrier 10) NNN SSS I I I I I I I I I I --> O <-- I I I I wire I I I I I I SSS NNN 1) when the magnets are moved, the B-Field at the point O is equal to 0 but THERE IS an electromagnetic induction in the wire, due to the motional E- Field generated. NNN NNN I I I I I I I I I I --> O <-- I I I I wire I I I I I I SSS SSS 2) when the magnets are moved, the B-Field at the point O is maximum but there is NO electromagnetic induction in the wire. The wire is placed orthogonaly (at right angle) to the magnet axis. The B-Field has been measured with an Electronic teslameter with Hall probe : Siemens SAS231W (sensibility : 100mV.mT-1) You may find more about this in the books : - J. P. Wesley, Classical quantum Theory, pages 314...316, Benjamin Wesley Blumberg 1996. ISBN 3-9800942-5-1 - Oliver Crane, Zentraler Oszillator und Raum-Quanten-Medium, Band 1, section 3, pages 203..211, Universal Experten Verlag Rapperswil 1992. ISBN 3-9520261-0-7 (In German only). - Christian Monstein, Deutsche Physik (German Physics) 1(4) 1992, Electromagnetic Induction Without Magnetic Field. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin 12/16/97 - 07:25GMT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 23:43:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11752; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:43:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:43:16 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Bessler wheel can4t work... ? Cc: jdecker@keelynet.com Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:43:58 +0100 Message-Id: <19971216084358.1dfedcff.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"eOIc32.0.Xt2.J4Zbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 19:15 15.12.1997 -0800, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi Dave! > >I don't claim to have the complete secret to Bessler (and as far >as I know, no one else does either)...like others, I've been working from >clues in John Collins book, that describe the various components and how >they worked...the basic idea is simple, implementing it will be another >matter entirely. > I am now pretty sure that my posted bessler-1.gif setup will NOT work. I have rethought all possibilities and came to the conclusion, that you will win at the one side of the wheel you will loose the energy at the other side of the wheel.. So Jerry, if you really think you have a better idea from the book, I would like to see it. But with shifting masses inside the wheel, there will always be loss at one side, so it compensates the won energy at the other side, so I guess it will not work... But I will have a look into John Collins book, cause Dieter Bauer just has got it and he will show it to me.. Hope to see soon some GIFs of you Jerry to see, why you are so excited ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 23:48:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12281; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:48:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:48:48 -0800 Message-ID: <34964E74.2FC7@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:48:36 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel can't work... ? References: <19971216084358.1dfedcff.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zzEHd3.0.l_2.U9Zbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan! I'm still working on the drawing...graphics are not my forte'. It would probably help to see animations of these various schemes to see how the weights shift at the various 90, 180, 270 and 360 positions. I'm pretty sure there will be a weight imbalance on my design and I hope it will be enough to overcome the resistance of the guides...seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 00:00:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14323; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:00:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:00:25 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Bessler wheel can't work... ? Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:01:06 +0100 Message-Id: <19971216090106.1e0e8eba.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA14296 Resent-Message-ID: <"nS6Zz1.0.hV3.NKZbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 01:48 16.12.1997 -0800, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi Stefan! > >I'm still working on the drawing...graphics are not my forte'. It would >probably help to see animations of these various schemes to see how the >weights shift at the various 90, 180, 270 and 360 positions. I'm pretty >sure there will be a weight imbalance on my design and I hope it will be >enough to overcome the resistance of the guides...seeya! I see. Well I just can´t imagine how it should work... but I will wait to see your drawings and explanations. Thanks for the info. Regards, Stefan. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 00:07:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15354; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:07:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:07:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:07:17 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971216004047.00c9a040@palacenet.net> References: <349615D9.2C22@keelynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"Cioss3.0.jl3.zQZbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >At 21:40 12/15/97 -0800, C. Cagle wrote: >>Why don't you go read the introduction to the site: >> >>http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/introduction.html where you can find the >>answer to your question. > >OK.... > >Quoting from the introduction: >"However, although we have not yet built a working prototype, the physical >experimental proof now exists which demonstrates that the operating principles >upon which the SCYBOLT(TM) design is founded represents a major breakthrough >in modern physics and will lead to the successful construction of the world's >first operating nuclear fusion reactor" > >Sounds exciting.... > >Quoting from a subsequent page under the heading, "A NEW CONCEPT OF FUSION": >"We have demonstrated in theory and by experiment that like charged particles >can have strong attractive interactions when they enter a common rest frame." > >This begs the question...where can we view the details of the experiment that >proves this theory? Any experiment which demonstrates superconduction is a case in point. It is also noteworthy to present evidence from numerous fusion experiements and reinterpret their data. Since fusion can occur at energy levels far below the Coulomb barrier one can easily subsume those data as experimental proof simply by offering an alternative paradigm that doesn't have to rely upon 'magic covering words' like 'tunneling' which says nothing at all about the process itself nor about quantum states which lead to a process. >I recognize that much of what we believe about quantum physics rests >on extrapolation from observed data...and that requires a measure of >faith. What an understatement! >Many people have claimed to have God on their side, and turned >out to be misguided, or worse...we have been warned to be wary of this >in the Bible. Please, do not interpret my suspicion as a personal slight >when I ask for physical proof. Proof is a such a subjective quantity that there is bound to be disputes about various claims. Data, however, is a little more substantial and the data supports the idea that like charged particles which are overlapping in momentum space (per the 'general case') are attractively interactive. But really one must be aware that some can say that it isn't the data which supports this idea or that idea but rather the interpretation of the data. >Experiments that are reproducible, which yield consistent >data, would go far towards dispelling any doubts. Unfortunately, this isn't exactly true because (see what I said above) data can be interpreted in a number of ways and the most ordinary, though perhaps wrong, interpretation of data is often accepted even if a novel way of interpreting the same data which is consistent with a larger amount of other data is found. The best way to dispel doubts is to build a reactor that works and then deal with the doubters by putting their names at the end of availability list as the units go into general production. >Best Regards, >Jack > > >PS. The Shiva project was never intended to produce a self-sustaining >fusion reaction. Yes, but all of these projects were design to lead toward such. Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 00:10:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15779; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:10:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:10:03 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:09:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712160809.AAA13369@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"WrNuW2.0.Ns3.PTZbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 04:26 PM 12/15/97 -1000, Rick wrote: >Ever hear the one about the sprouts over a rotating turntable? Allegedly >they lean in towards the center as they grow. The sprouts aren't rotating - >there's a turntable of some sort underneath whatever they're being >supported on. Weird, huh? I wonder if that's true. Shouldn't be too hard to >check. Then there's the one about the rotating superconductor... > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > I tried the sprout experiment a while ago, after hearing about it on "Art Bell". I found that the sprouts grew inward with an old turntable - the shaded pole motor dissipated about 25 watts. They did the same with a resistor dissipating 25 watts instead. Using a low power motor from a cassette recorder, the effect wasn't seen. So I assumed it was convection currents, not "tetrahedral" energy or something else. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 00:23:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17928; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:22:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:22:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:22:50 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34964364.1686@keelynet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"3Yw792.0.yN4.WfZbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jerry Decker, Retires with this parting shot. >Hi Folks! > >Well, Cagle has sure proven to me that he IS a nutcase....that's why Art >Bell only had him on for a couple of hours, deciding to go to open phone >lines, highly unusual for Bell. No more time or space in my world for >this garbage, if I have to read it, it will come from a more reliable >source, Bible, Koran, Qum Ran manuscripts, Dead Sea scrolls, not a >self-appointed proselyte. > >My favorite quote to rabid Christian basket cases, > > "I'd rather RULE in Hell than SERVE in Heaven." But you won't rule in Hell, you idiot, instead you will be in eternal torment there. >my choice, goodnight Gracie This cuts to the heart of the character of Decker who is an admitted candle gazer. I quote from his own website: "This led to experiments with candles, chants, charms and eventually magick. Results varied but candlework seemed to be the most valid as was hexing. Also experimented with hypnosis, water-witching (dowsing), my crystal ball and Ouija boards." So here we have a fellow who believes in Ouija boards and hexing announcing to the world that I have proven to him that I am a 'nutcase'. This is some of the most hilarious and rich bullshit in the world. The man is in a state of moral and spiritual darkness and thinks himself an apt guide to the rest of you who might take his side. And he's right. He is an apt guide if you have your course set for the outer darkness. Now listen up, Decker, either refute with logic and experiment what I have presented or do us all a favor and keep your witchcraft and Star Trek fantasies along with your moronic opinions to yourself. Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 00:38:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20451; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:38:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:38:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:38:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712160838.AAA12884@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More about the Hooper-Monstein Effect Cc: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"JDBf71.0.S_4.8uZbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jean-Louis and all, At 02:30 AM 12/16/97 EST, you wrote: >Yes, you may freely scratch your head, but as far as I am concerned, I prefer >to keep my head, cool and clear, I think that it is better for my health. >:-) > >I have also tested this setup, when the two magnets are placed in same >direction, you can measure B-Field with the Teslameter in the middle, but >there is NO electromagnetic induction: The Motional E-Field is canceled. > >The Hooper-Monstein Effect >-------------------------- >( fonts used for a better display : courrier 10) > > NNN SSS > I I I I > I I I I > I I --> O <-- I I > I I wire I I > I I I I > SSS NNN > >1) when the magnets are moved, the B-Field at the point O is equal to 0 >but THERE IS an electromagnetic induction in the wire, due to the motional E- >Field >generated. > > NNN NNN > I I I I > I I I I > I I --> O <-- I I > I I wire I I > I I I I > SSS SSS > >2) when the magnets are moved, the B-Field at the point O is maximum >but there is NO electromagnetic induction in the wire. > Very interesting, Jean-Louis! The induction seems to be following the "transformer" induction, Voltage generated in a loop ~dB/dt, not the "motional" case, Voltage = velocity*length of wire*B. Is there any way you can record an oscilloscope waveform of the induced voltage as a function of the magnet position? This may give a clue of its origin. -Dave (Is the wire moving the same as the magnet for the velocity? Does the reference frame of the voltage indicator matter) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 01:06:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24106; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:05:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:05:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:05:47 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971216004047.00c9a040@palacenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Zj5-Y3.0.Zu5.iHabq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Jack DeMule wrote: >>At 21:40 12/15/97 -0800, C. Cagle wrote: >>>Why don't you go read the introduction to the site: >>> >>>http://www.teleport.com/~singtech/introduction.html where you can find the >>>answer to your question. >> >OK.... >> Thanks Jack, I was going to check this out after reading all the e-mail that is here lately.. you saved me a trip with your "quotes". Best to you & yours Merry Christmas -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 01:54:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28586; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:54:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:54:14 -0800 Message-ID: <34964FA8.DBAA0FF0@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:53:44 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel can't work... ? References: <19971216084358.1dfedcff.in@pop3.vossnet.de> <34964E74.2FC7@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y1gr3.0.Z-6.4_abq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I doubt there will be a weight difference on the two sides, also the wheel had to be started by hand that indicates that there was none, but if there was an inertia difference (due to the masses descending moving faster than the ascending masses) that would explain why it worked when started "Once the wheel was started with a gentle push". It would also explain Uncles toy where the marbles descend at a great rate and go back up at a much slower rate. John Berry Jerry wrote: > Hi Stefan! > > I'm still working on the drawing...graphics are not my forte'. It would > probably help to see animations of these various schemes to see how the > weights shift at the various 90, 180, 270 and 360 positions. I'm pretty > sure there will be a weight imbalance on my design and I hope it will be > enough to overcome the resistance of the guides...seeya! > -- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 02:24:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19925; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:24:01 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:24:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33704B46.2B7D@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 05:28:38 -0400 From: Drexler X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More about the Hooper-Monstein Effect References: <63d4dd28.34962e16@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LMkY53.0.At4.-Qbbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com JNaudin509 wrote: > >[Snip] > > The Hooper-Monstein Effect > -------------------------- > > NNN SSS > I I I I > I I I I > I I --> O <-- I I > I I wire I I > I I I I > SSS NNN > > 1) when the magnets are moved, the B-Field at the point O is equal to 0 > but THERE IS an electromagnetic induction in the wire, due to the motional E-Field > generated. > > NNN NNN > I I I I > I I I I > I I --> O <-- I I > I I wire I I > I I I I > SSS SSS > > 2) when the magnets are moved, the B-Field at the point O is maximum > but there is NO electromagnetic induction in the wire. > > The wire is placed orthogonaly (at right angle) to the magnet axis. > The B-Field has been measured with an Electronic teslameter with Hall probe : > Siemens SAS231W (sensibility : 100mV.mT-1) > >[Snip] Very interesting JL. Have you tried the experiment with magnets parallel to the wire? {see below} If so what results did you achieve? |N| | |S| | | | | | | |--> | <--| | | | | | | |S| | |N| wire 1) Top View With like poles moving toward one another? Drexler. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 02:35:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA32195; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:34:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:34:58 -0800 Message-ID: <34967567.7A1D@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 04:34:47 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wzOyV3.0.ys7.Hbbbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Listen up? God in an argument is not logic, please don't further trash this list with your rantings....you are after money, using religion as a means to get it. That is the ONLY reason you even got on here, and I don't understand how that happened, either, maybe God intervened.... If you are 'called' to seek money in this fashion, TV time is easy to get, you could be the next Tilton....have fun in prison....no further bandwidth will I expend in your direction. (Sorry Bill, someone left the gate open...) -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 02:44:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00390; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:44:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:44:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3496778D.2A38@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 04:43:57 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel can't work... ? References: <19971216084358.1dfedcff.in@pop3.vossnet.de> <34964E74.2FC7@keelynet.com> <34964FA8.DBAA0FF0@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kavmC.0._5.tjbbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi John! John Berry said; > I doubt there will be a weight difference on the two sides, also the > wheel had to be started by hand that indicates that there was none, but > if there was an inertia difference (due to the masses descending moving > faster than the ascending masses) that would explain why it worked when > started "Once the wheel was started with a gentle push". On the contrary, I think the push with the hand is what gets the weights going...this indicates that the weights are only equal WHEN THE MACHINE IS AT REST...note also the speed increased from that nominal push up to 26 rpm, acclerating to that rpm on its own as the guy hidden behind the wall got shocked from static electricity and started to pedal faster. > It would also explain Uncles toy where the marbles descend at a great > rate and go back up at a much slower rate. I am not so certain of that as I did not see it. It was definitely very well timed, releasing balls at a timed rate, load a ball in the hopper, advance the conveyor successively to the top, release a ball from the hopper back to the stack. Marvelous if it could be duplicated. > John Berry--- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 05:04:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18980; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 05:04:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 05:04:22 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3496249C.E2B104FF@southconn.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:33:04 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"hYaL41.0.Vd4.Gndbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Steve - > Thanks Rick...that explains it... > now where does the force go ... They say centrifugal force was never a real force anyway, so I guess disappearing comes rather natural to it. It's only there when something's following a curve. Let go of whatever's holding the thing to the curve, and the thing goes off straight. Now there's no more curving, so there's no more force on it. It's really pretty confusing. I really have no business whatsoever trying to explain anything in physics to anybody. Perhaps you should explain it to me instead! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 05:04:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19121; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 05:04:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 05:04:31 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712160809.AAA13369@germany.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:37:28 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"Hy0gB1.0.nd4.Gndbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave - > So I assumed it was convection currents, not > "tetrahedral" energy or something else. How would convection currents work in that setup? Would they have come up over the edge of the sprout tray and flowed in towards the center (then up)? Did the smaller motor turn the turntable at the same speed as the other motors? Thanks, - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 07:56:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15469; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:55:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:55:54 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971216235544.006fb30c@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:55:44 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? In-Reply-To: References: <3496249C.E2B104FF@southconn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"wzq2f1.0.cn3.9Igbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick wrote :- >They say centrifugal force was never a real force anyway, so I guess >disappearing comes rather natural to it. It's only there when something's >following a curve. Let go of whatever's holding the thing to the curve, and >the thing goes off straight. Now there's no more curving, so there's no >more force on it. > >It's really pretty confusing. I really have no business whatsoever trying >to explain anything in physics to anybody. Perhaps you should explain it to >me instead! I like Feynman's approach. He sort of suggests that it is "Force" itself that is not real. For instance he says the equation "F = m a" is not really an equation at all; It is only *half* an equation. You have to find something else to equate to it (ie replace the "F" with) in order to get anything useful like an equation of motion. For instance if you have a mass on a spring you have F = -k x (k=spring constant, x=displacement) and then when you equate the imaginary "F" you get "m a = -k x" which is meaningful and can be solved to give simple harmonic motion for x with a frequency of Sqrt[k/m]. The "force" is part of the inner working and is more conceptual than real. At least that is something I seem to remember from reading a bit of Feynman. Does that confuse you further! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 08:07:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26378; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:07:00 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:07:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971217000549.006fbe50@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:05:49 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? In-Reply-To: <3495CC1E.F21A6A21@ihug.co.nz> References: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EUKIW1.0.-R6.USgbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com John Berry wrote: >You are looking at it in a rather simplistic way, but you must remember that >there is more than the potential field of gravity, there is also inertia (which >IS *variable), and it is my belief that Bessler's wheel and Uncles toy both >work due to the greater speed of the descending masses to the acceding ones, I >have a theory that explains this, remember besslers wheel was not weighted >unevenly because it would not start spinning on it's own but would only after >given a starting impulse. > >*note: variable inertia is real, that is how unidirectional propulsion devices >work, the faster you accelerate a mass the less inertia it lakes to get to a >certain speed, equal and opposite is only true when the masses are the same. >almost all of these devices work this way including the orbital ones, but the >most honest of these devices is Bull's Impuse impact device. How about some more information to back up your claim (variable inertia). Can you give us a pointer to info on Bulls Impulse impact device? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 08:37:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00658; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:37:09 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:37:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3496CA16.717A@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:36:06 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WfP491.0.BA.pugbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Rick & Dave! Dave - > So I assumed it was convection currents, not > "tetrahedral" energy or something else. Is it possible you meant to say the twist was due to magnetic curl from the two different motors, one strong enough to extend into the plant area? I have seen this twisting effect 'natuarally' out in Santa Clara at the so-called Mystery Spot. Trees, vines, shrubs grow normally up to this mysterious line of force, suddently than twist in the most bizarre forms....I could hardly believe what I was seeing, a compass showed no discernible magnetic anaomly. The owners of the tourist attraction say NASA wanted to drill into the heart of the hillside where they calculate the disturbance center to be, but the family refused for fear it would kill the anomalous effect. If you get out there, check it out, most peculiar. The claim is there is a 'mascon' there, as in a buried meteorite of unusually high density which concentrates gravity near it. > They say centrifugal force was never a real force anyway, so I guess > disappearing comes rather natural to it. It's only there when > something's following a curve. Let go of whatever's holding the thing > to the curve, and the thing goes off straight. Now there's no more > curving, so there's no more force on it. I thought centrifugal force was a result of the rotational velocity and angular momentum being converted to a vector where this derived force pushes outward. This conversion was discussed rather heavily by several researchers at a conference back in 1992, they claimed it could be used to produce overunity. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 09:46:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10172; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:45:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:45:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3496DA0B.55DD@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:44:11 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> <3.0.1.32.19971217000549.006fbe50@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BKrY03.0.qU2.nuhbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi John! You wrote: > How about some more information to back up your claim (variable > inertia). Can you give us a pointer to info on Bulls Impulse impact > device? The best known inertial drive people still living are Roger Cook in the US and Canadian researcher Thornsen (can't recall his first name). Cook has a patent on his device and has been promoting it for years. He claims it uses a cycloid motion to provide a unidirectional thrust. Thornsen showed a video at a Tesla conference where a canoe moved across the water with no prop or use of paddles for thrust, there was one paddle stuck in the water to serve as rudder, but it was only moved to steer the canoe as you can see in the video. The thing moved about 80 feet per minute once it got going. His machine, with purely mechanical device, made a clackety sound as the weights were slung to the outside of the orbit. Quite amazing to see and Thornsen was working on ways to improve the mechanics of it. The key was a cycloid. On the web, a fellow named David Cowlishaw has been promoting his idea GIT (gravitational inertial thruster)...David and I were in contact a year or so ago when he first proposed his theory. Since that time, there have been numerous successful tests which have resulted in pictures of units in operation as well as full plans to build your own, posted to his website. You should check it out....as long as it is mechanical, I don't see much hope for the design because of instabilities, though there is hope these could be worked out in a precisely machined device. Check out GIT at; http://www.open.org/davidc He is an EXTREMELY ENTHUSIASTIC fellow and it is this which has inspired other people to take up the gauntlet. I am of the opinion that the principle for this unidirectional drive can be adapted electronically, even on an atom scale, but that's another story....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 10:28:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17151; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:26:50 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:26:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:20:16 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call To: "C. Cagle" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QwYPB3.0.sB4.dVibq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, C. Cagle wrote: > KPN wrote: > > >C. Cagle writes > > > >>>>If this message is offensive to you and if you cannot tolerate the idea of > >>>>GOD teaching men a New and Apocalyptic Physics then this message was not > >>>>for you - but if you believe the Living GOD reigns sovereign in every area > >>>>of men's lives including Physics then you need to visit this website and > >>>>consider HOW you shall exercise your faith. > > > >Yes, this is offensive to me. As a man of REASON, I find it most distasteful > >that some rather primitive mythology is being used to seduce the naive into > >sending their hard earned money to some huckster. If GOD wants something > >done here, I doubt he needs our money to do it. > > You are right. HE doesn't need our money for HE has the whole universe. > What we need, on the other hand, to escape his destruction is Faith. > Parting with material wealth towards a project of GOD whether it be the > feeding of the hungry, the building of the Ark of the Covenant, or any > other matter of the kingdom is an exercise of FAITH. The scripture states > in Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) "But without faith {it is} impossible to please > {him}: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and {that} he is > a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." > [snip] > > Charles Cagle, CEO > Singularity Technologies, Inc. > 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. > Salem, OR 97304 > > Ph: 503/362-7781 > > email> singtech@teleport.com > > http://www.teleport.com/~singtech > > I'm sure your intentions are good, but this has nothing to do with the purpose of this discussion group. Nothing whatever. Please, no more! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 10:31:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12472; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:31:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:31:29 -0800 From: MFergerson Message-ID: <3ebacf0.3496c85f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:28:21 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: bitter solenoid (Flying Frog) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"bKb2M1.0.g23.-Zibq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The website for the "flying frog" is: HFML, Levitation http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html (in case the hotlink doesn't work) Photo, setup data, etc. Hope this helps Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 11:57:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00418; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:57:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:57:41 -0800 X-ROUTED: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:53:10 -0500 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Paula Message-ID: <34970679.74F8F78F@southconn.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:53:45 -0800 From: steve/paula Organization: Sisters of Silicon, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dbM0p3.0.J6.pqjbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sounds like the zero point field again....like inertia...a property of the field...it likes things not changing....going in circle you are constantly changing direction ...???... sounds like a good hypothesis to me .....but you can get inertia back when you try to stop an object in motion...wonder why you can't get inertia back....steve Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Thanks Rick...that explains it... > > now where does the force go ... > They say centrifugal force was never a real force anyway, so I guess > disappearing comes rather natural to it. It's only there when something's > following a curve. Let go of whatever's holding the thing to the curve, and > the thing goes off straight. Now there's no more curving, so there's no > more force on it. > It's really pretty confusing. I really have no business whatsoever trying > to explain anything in physics to anybody. Perhaps you should explain it to > me instead! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 12:46:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08500; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:46:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:46:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:45:04 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Arthur C. Clarke 80 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Uvcn63.0.d42.BYkbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Today 12.16.97 Author C. Clarke is 80 Thought for today: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clarke (1917- ). May he have many happy returns:) -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 12:56:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14312; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:56:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:56:15 -0800 From: KURT_BENSON@NON-HP-Boise-om8.om.hp.com X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 13:55:42 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3496CA16.717A@keelynet.com> Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? MIME-Version: 1.0 TO: jdecker@keelynet.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"w1-E9.0.UV3.jhkbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Author: Non-HP-jdecker (jdecker@keelynet.com) at HP-Boise,mimegw7 Date: 12/16/97 11:36 AM Hi Rick & Dave! Dave - > So I assumed it was convection currents, not > "tetrahedral" energy or something else. Is it possible you meant to say the twist was due to magnetic curl from the two different motors,<...> have seen this twisting effect 'natuarally' out in Santa Clara at the so-called Mystery Spot. Trees, vines, shrubs grow normally up to this mysterious line of force, suddently than twist in the most bizarre forms.<...>I could hardly believe what I was seeing, a compass showed no discernible magnetic anaomly.< ... > The claim is there is a 'mascon' there, as in a buried meteorite of unusually high density which concentrates gravity near it. has anyone done a gravimetric survey? or a true mag survey with a proton precession magnetometer? scintolometer? Weird that it would be in a hill, as most meteorites cause holes. Is this the santa clara, california that had that earthen dam disaster back in the twenties? Hmmph, sounds like either a BIG lump of gold or a site for the Roswell club. > They say centrifugal force was never a real force anyway, so I guess > disappearing comes rather natural to it. It's only there when > something's following a curve. Let go of whatever's holding the thing > to the curve, and the thing goes off straight. Now there's no more > curving, so there's no more force on it. I thought centrifugal force was a result of the rotational velocity and angular momentum being converted to a vector where this derived force pushes outward. This conversion was discussed rather heavily by several researchers at a conference back in 1992, they claimed it could be used to produce overunity. The way they explained it to me in physics way back when is that it is a force vector that under ideal conditions i.e. no friction and a 2 body problem, no momentum/force is lost. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 Kurt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 13:13:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18341; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:13:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:13:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:45:26 -0600 (CST) From: "Frank C. Earl" X-Sender: fearl@localhost To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My agenda with over unity (PLEASE READ) In-Reply-To: <19971215.151406.6374.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6X-kF2.0.MU4.Qxkbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Hiding it in an attempt to make a fortune has always ended in failure, > and in some cases an untimely end. Which is why they did end in failure. These things are devices that require us to change our worldview. These things are devices that threaten the status quo. There are people in power that would like for you to NOT change things because doing so would take them out of their positions of power. Oil interests come immediately to mind in this case. If we have a different source of power that is clean and really IS ubiquitous, then they are clean out of a job for all intents and purposes. They don't like that, if you don't know already. No, the first couple of devices are going to have to be given freely to the world for just that reason alone. > I have a decent day job. My motivation for being in the free energy arena > is that I WANT TO SEE A WORKING DEVICE THAT I BUILT MYSELF. I have been > looking twenty years, and I don't care if I am the one who invents it or > if someone else does, I would just like to see it happen. Same for me. It'd be great be wealthy by way of a "miracle" device- believe me it would. But what many don't understand is that they can be and still give the "secret" away- Bessler, Tesla, Keely, Moray, others took the secrets of their working devices to their GRAVES, hoping to secure patents, etc. If they released it or merely produced the thing themselves and sold it they'd have gotten enough of a lead on the competition that it'd not mattered if they did steal the idea and produce it for themselves. Patents mean NOTHING unless you're a large corporation in many cases- and they're the playtoy of the same. If you want to see what a real problem patents are, merely read up on the events involving GIF, Compuserve, and Unisys. > One other point is that some inventors think that the very first market > version has to replace a V8 in a car or power an entire home. A free > energy device that can power a portable radio, etc is enough to make a > start. I think this is the approach Greg has been taking. Powering small appliances like computers, hair dryers, etc. is my initial goal for an over-unity device. Powering the house would be nice- and can still be achieved by way of a lot of small units. Powering the car would be nice, but that could be achived in the short term by varied means including having the OU unit produce hydrogen that would be used in the hydrite cannisters. The car would then burn it in a small engine that would turn over a generator that powers a more efficient electric motor or it would burn it in a fuel cell that provides the needed power. Everything doesn't HAVE to be OU to start out with to have the desired effect of reducing consumption of natural resources and pollution as you can see- it's all in how you look at it all. Now, if Bessler's wheel is reproducable and works... Frank Earl Earl Consulting Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a $500 archival fee per copy. E-mail recieved after any reciept of this notice implys acceptance of these terms. A copy of USC 47 may be found online at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 13:19:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12879; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:19:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:19:05 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971216235544.006fb30c@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> References: <3496249C.E2B104FF@southconn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:18:44 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"r_mAd1.0.893.81lbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com John - > Does that confuse you further! Why yes, thank you. Well, I've just about completely given up on "fields", and now I learn Feynman says there's no "force". This doesn't leave me with much, does it. There's "time" I suppose, but I hardly ever have enough of that! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 15:19:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29466; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:17:09 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Arthur C. Clarke 80 To: Steve Ekwall cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2JUgj2.0.1C7.zmmbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Steve Ekwall wrote: > Today 12.16.97 > > Author C. Clarke is 80 > > Thought for today: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is > indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clarke (1917- ). > > > May he have many happy returns:) > -=se=- > The followup quote to the above is "Any sufficiently retrograde magic is indistinguishable from technology". :-) Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 16:57:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12175; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:57:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:57:27 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:58:10 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: My agenda with over unity (PLEASE READ) Cc: fearl@airmail.net Resent-Message-ID: <"6iZCG.0.8-2.qDobq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Now, if Bessler's wheel is reproducable and works... Or other devices that we have listed on the INE Website - Then What??? Who wants to move forward and replicate some of these??? We have been given the choice. Let's use it. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 18:19:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14819; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:19:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:19:19 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971216215718.0098ed50@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:57:25 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: More about the Hooper-Monstein Effect Cc: mrandall@earthlink.net, redesign@pavilion.co.uk, herman@antioch-college.edu, 101722.2050@compuserve.com, jlagarde@cyberaccess.fr, jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au, ddameron@earthlink.net, harti@harti.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VI0tt3.0.Sd3.cQpbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com JNaudin writes: >Hi Keith, > >Yes, you may freely scratch your head, but as far as I am concerned, I prefer >to keep my head, cool and clear, I think that it is better for my health. >:-) > >I have also tested this setup, when the two magnets are placed in same >direction, you can measure B-Field with the Teslameter in the middle, but >there is NO electromagnetic induction: The Motional E-Field is canceled. Thanks, it's what I would expect based on an analysis of the experiment by applying Heavisides second circuital relation ( del cross E = partial derivative of B with respect to T ) to the expression for B which consists of the sum of the contibutions of both moving magnets. If you apply the law to the full expression, and not jump to setting B to zero you will find that yes, B cancels at the point of the wire, but del cross E does not. It in fact, as your experiment demonstrates, it doubles. And conversely, by reversing the polarity, B doubles and E cancels. Again, this reminds me an awful lot of what happens in a transmission line with the end open circuited. The relevant point here might be that energy is tranferred to the wire at the expense of the motion of the magnets. What form that energy takes depends on circuit geometry, etc. but it is the energy which is tranferred. Dave points this out as well by stating, the induction is due to "transformer" action and not "motional" action. I think a more common term for the latter is "flux cutting" and may be less confusing as the new explanation uses the term "motional" as well. No matter. Despite reading Monsteins web page explanation, as well as several other "alternative" researchers papers on motional E field, I find myself a bit confused about this theory. I'll review Hoopers patent and some other materials I have, and try to scrounge the references you cite. For the ordinary explanation, check out "Calculations of Induced Voltages in Metallic Conductors" HB Dwight, Trans. A.I.E.E. vol 49, 1930 "Dicussion" LV Bewley, Trans A.I.E.E. vol 49, 1930 and Bewleys book, "Flux Linkages and Electromagnetic Induction" Dover Books. And hey, I'll get excited if I want to, this is an excellent experiment. KPN By the way, if the experiment is still set up, instead of looking at the voltage drop across the wire, try measuring the current in a closed loop instead. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 18:47:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00718; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:47:29 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:47:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349758D4.F8D@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:45:08 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Winterflood CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel worked this way ?? References: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> <3.0.1.32.19971217000549.006fbe50@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.1.32.19971217102515.006f1958@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KjD9d1.0.4B.-qpbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi John! What a coincidence, about 30 minutes after posting the info about inertial drives, I got a call from a fellow who said; He had developed an antigrav machine, theory only, unproven but he 'knew' it would work. Wanted to patent it. I warned him against that because the patent office is said to be replete with employees of major corporations and any working f/e or antigrav could well be classified...he could just as well disappear with no trace of his invention... He also claimed he knew how to extract free energy, all you want... Of course, in neither of these claims would he provide a clue as to HOW this was to be done because it would compromise the secret. He expressed interest in the shareware idea. Asked if I knew of the antigrav device invented and patented in 1956 and another more complex unit patented in the 60's. I had not heard of these. Of course, he could not provide names or patent number. However, he said a military jeep had a box placed in the back seat. When it was turned on, the jeep floated in the air. When asked if he could relate what the patent said, he described the use of electromagnetic clutches which seized a shaft driving a heavy weight. When the shaft was seized at a certain point in the rotation of the shaft, it caused the weight to produce an inertial vector against gravity which made anything under it levitate. He says the inventor was once head of the FHA and died in the early 1980s. Said he talked to the widow who confirmed the jeep story. He was supposed to call back with the patent numbers and I had hoped to see if he would give some clues about how his free energy or antigrav theory/machine worked. He is not a Nethead but said he'd have his daughter check out keelynet for certain files which he was interested in. Still waiting for his call....a shame IBM patents only go to 1971...if he calls with any tangible numbers or names, I'll pass them on...otherwise just another spook story...seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 20:47:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09066; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:47:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:47:40 -0800 From: K easy Message-ID: <8885ec1a.34975254@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:17:22 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"msEWs1.0.TD2.hbrbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com will a marble gain speed in a spiral, vortex? Neglecting friction losses the velocity of the marble after dropping a height h will be determined from 1/2 mv^2 = mgh or v = sqrt(2gh); that is, the velocity would be the same as if you just dropped it from a height h without the spiral. Of course, in practice that velocity is reduced by losses on the spiral, likely by quite a lot. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 21:11:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20182; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:11:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:11:27 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:10:19 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: transverse barkhausen effect Resent-Message-ID: <"EeORI2.0.Fx4.-xrbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com this weekend, I found 'Modern Magnetism' (4th edition) by L.F.Bates. the first edition was printed in '39, this one was printed in '61. [page 438] The Transverse Barkhausen Effect: "Bozorth and Dillinger [Phys. Rev. 38, 1931] suggested that, as the magnetic vectors of domains would not all be set parallel to the direction of the applied field during the investigation of the longitudinal effects, transverse effects would be registered in coils set with their axes at right angles to the field. They used tubular specimens 60cm long and about 5mm in diameter. By passing a heavy current through a copper wire along the axis of the tube the specimen was magnetized transversely while a current in a solenoid surrounding it produced longitudinal magnetization." [page 439] "The deflection of [the detector] for longitudinal changes was invariably in the same direction, but the transverse changes gave deflections half in one direction and half in the other, proving that the average change in magnetization perpendicular to the field was zero. "On measuring the ratio of the average transverse to the average longitudinal effect as a function of the induction B, it was found that it was less than unity until B exceeded 15,000 [no units given] after which it rose rapidly...The results definitely support the view that in low fields on the average all the magnetic vectors change by very nearly 180d, whereas in high fields rotation of the vectors through 90d is common." This is remarkably similar to the magnet/coil configuration of the Coler device. Passing current thru the magnets would create the same transverse magnetization as described in this experiment. So, could transverse Barkhausen oscillation be the explanation of the Coler device? r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 21:13:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20452; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:13:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:13:16 -0800 (PST) From: MFergerson Message-ID: <3f0b5555.34975972@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:47:44 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"aJljO1.0.S_4.fzrbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Zack wrote:> KPN wrote: > > >C. Cagle writes > > > >>>>If this message is offensive to you and if you cannot tolerate the idea of > >>>>GOD teaching men a New and Apocalyptic Physics then this message was not > >>>>for you - but if you believe the Living GOD reigns sovereign in every area > >>>>of men's lives including Physics then you need to visit this website and > >>>>consider HOW you shall exercise your faith. etc. >I'm sure your intentions are good, but this has nothing to do with the >purpose of this discussion group. Nothing whatever. > >Please, no more! > >Zack As a dedicated antitheist, I also tend to be somewhat distracted by theological pronouncements (word choice meant to be descriptive, not offensive) in the middle of a technical discussion. If C. Cagle believes the freenrg list is populated by the damned, he is wasting his time here. OTOH, C. Cagle obviously has great faith in the technology he promotes. My suggestion to him is contained in James 2:26 (KJV) "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Yes, I know the quote is about acts of Christian kindness and charity, but it's also about putting one's physical effort where one's heart is, no? Even Jesus wasn't above a small miracle to get people's attention..... Mr. Cagle, please consider that the best possible way to convince doubters (in this case) is to provide tangible evidence. If you can show without doubt that your system works, beyond interpretation (50 Watts in, 5000 Watts out is pretty hard to misinterpret), might you not save a soul or three? Just trying to stay on track Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 22:52:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00624; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:52:09 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:52:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:50:58 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3f0b5555.34975972@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"S8pjP1.0.f9.NQtbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mark wrote: > As a dedicated antitheist, I also tend to be somewhat distracted by >theological pronouncements (word choice meant to be descriptive, not >offensive) in the middle of a technical discussion. If C. Cagle believes the >freenrg list is populated by the damned, he is wasting his time here. I never believed any such thing until a couple of your chief demons came out immediately on the attack with lies and innuendos and accusations. >OTOH, C Cagle obviously has great faith in the technology he promotes. My >suggestion >to him is contained in James 2:26 (KJV) "For as the body without the spirit is >dead, so faith without works is dead also." > > Yes, I know the quote is about acts of Christian kindness and charity, but >it's also about putting one's physical effort where one's heart is, no? Even >Jesus wasn't above a small miracle to get people's attention..... Please don't presume to teach Christian theology. As soon as you opened your mouth you screwed up. Jesus said "An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;..." > Mr. Cagle, please consider that the best possible way to convince doubters >(in this case) is to provide tangible evidence. If you can show without doubt >that your system works, beyond interpretation (50 Watts in, 5000 Watts out is >pretty hard to misinterpret), might you not save a soul or three? > > Just trying to stay on track > > Mark You are confused Mark. I'm not trying to save any souls. GOD alone is sovereign in that realm. I am merely giving an opportunity for some souls to contribute (in faith) to a GOD given technology. Such people certainly are welcome to all the info I have on the subject and if they are not convinced then no harm done but if they are then they should not be slack in helping it an every way they can. As for your claim that you are just trying to stay on track: No you aren't. If you wanted to stay on track then you would look at my website where I clearly state that an operating SCYBOLT(tm) reactor has not yet been built. This is an infant technology and must go through some of the stages of any revolutionary idea. You want to see an operational reactor and then you will believe? Who wouldn't? Yet we see posted on this list a host of outright fakeries like the Bessler Wheel and Uncles perpetual motion thingamajig and great attention and effort is given to these ideas but really what are these? Fantastic con jobs, fables. Fakeries. You guys eat that stuff up like it was candy. This list has been operating for quite some time now and nothing has come of it. What can we make of it all but that there a big audience of wantabee perpetual motion freaks who are willing to listen to any fable. I came to the wrong place. I admit it. I didn't have a clue that I was walking into such a den of people nor among so many that hate the very idea of GOD having anything at all to do with physics. I present a technology that I claim has been given of GOD and all your principle men go into a fit. Mind you they don't go into a fit because I'm claiming something outrageous like a breakthrough in fusion energy (which I am) but rather because I say that the physics behind what I am promoting comes from GOD. And next I'm seeking funding for what is a sole corporation (nonprofit) from who? From the average run of the mill fellow who reads or subscribes to this list? Nope. Not at all but rather from those who are willing to step forward in faith. Nagel jumps right in and tells an outright lie saying that he's been to my website and finds a whole lot on how to send me money and very little on physics. This simply isn't true but the moderator and owner of the list makes the excuse for Nagel that he was 'mistaken'. He wasn't mistaken at all but put forth an outright and intentional lie. Beaty censures me for putting the man in his place. He has every right to. This is his list. He can make up any rules he wants to and can expect that each person ought to respect those rules or be kicked off of the list. But I have a rule of my own which a number of people have run afoul of. That rule is to not brook bad behavior, not tolerate innuendos nor outright lies. In an open forum like on a usenet newsgroup which isn't moderated I get the same kinds of attacks. After several quick defenses which show I don't tolerate such behavior these guys back off because they realize they can't win. It is easy to defeat a liar because all you have to do is show where he lied. Pretty simple. You will note that my original post is straightforward and I don't attack anyone or anything - but you will note that subsequent posts from Nagel and Decker are outright attacks at which the list moderator (as far as I know) merely winks in hypocrisy. Then your list owner, William Beaty chastises me for a lack of a Christian attitude and demeanor but nevertheless on his next private communication confesses that he is not a Christian. If you people can't see the hypocrisy in that then you truly are a blind bunch. Well, I have very little tolerance for the likes of most of those who have responded to me and feel like I jumped right into a den of devils which some of you most assuredly are. Here's the rules if you wish to communicate with me. You want to know about the physics or the technology and I most likely will be happy to oblige. You want to attack me, that's fine too but expect to get the same right back in your face because I flat have no tolerance for people who make unprovoked innuendos, accusations, or ad hominen attacks, or who tell outright lies. Those are my rules. Now if any of you want to communciate via email, you are welcome. I'm sure Beaty will unsubscribe me after this message. Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 22:58:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01041; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:58:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:58:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:57:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712170657.WAA10788@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: sprouts with turntable Resent-Message-ID: <"cpL_t2.0.4G.wVtbq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 11:37 PM 12/15/97 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >How would convection currents work in that setup? Would they have come up >over the edge of the sprout tray and flowed in towards the center (then >up)? Did the smaller motor turn the turntable at the same speed as the >other motors? > The shelf where the sprout pots were placed acted as a baffle, but assumed the convection currents flowed back together above it. The plants seemed to confirm this. If I had different results, would have tried a much larger shelf, blocking the currents completely. I did this in a closet. The smaller motor rotated more slowly. I would have suspected that as another variable, except for the resistor source, with no rotation, produced the flow effect. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 23:51:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04285; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:51:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:51:09 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:51:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712170751.XAA05780@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"mEXb-1.0.s21.hHubq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jerry and all, At 10:36 AM 12/16/97 -0800, you wrote: > > So I assumed it was convection currents, not > > "tetrahedral" energy or something else. > >Is it possible you meant to say the twist was due to magnetic curl >from the two different motors, one strong enough to extend into the plant >area? I have seen this twisting effect 'natuarally' out in Santa Clara >at the so-called Mystery Spot. I used the resistor heat source to remove the magnetic rotation effects. Of course there might be an electric effect, but it didn't show up with the small motor. Do you mean Santa Cruz? I used to live in the San. F. bay area, but never made it to the one there. I think there are many "so called mystery spots", did visit one near Grant's Pass, Oregon, but don't remember any twisting trees? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 00:27:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA07136; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:26:50 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:26:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:25:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712170825.DAA11107@freenet3.carleton.ca.carleton.ca> From: dy288@freenet.carleton.ca (Gregory Watson) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Reply-To: dy288@freenet.carleton.ca Resent-Message-ID: <"mmm941.0.Nl1.8pubq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If I have learned anything so far in my life, I've learned: a) Reality is largely subjective. b) Any system devised by humans to describe reality (whether it be religion, philosophy, science, etc.) is flawed. which leads to: c) The menu is not equal to the meal. I believe that there have been, and will be, human inventions that do some pretty wild things; I also believe that there are a lot of people that are frauds, or will try to control you or rip you off in some way. Approach everything with an open yet critical mind and you may find gems of truth here and there amongst the bullshit. Stepping off my soapbox, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 05:43:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09545; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 05:43:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 05:43:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3497F319.12C2@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:43:21 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Dr. Paul Brown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LTnl93.0.2L2.BSzbq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! With regard to the unconfirmed report of the death of Dr. Paul Brown. He is apparently alive and well. I can't even trust that yet because I've not spoken to him direct. The Ron Dandy jerk letter has been responded to and the file on Dr. Brown has been updated with the new information. I apologize for not at least posting the email with a caveat asking for confirmation before stating as fact. When Tom Brown was mistakenly reported to have died under mysterious circumstances, I called and he said it was not so. When Stefan Marinov was reported in an email to have died, I asked for confirmation, receiving several European emails with ever more detail. When Bruce DePalma died, I asked for confirmation and received several emails to that effect. Now, with this report on Dr. Brown, I trusted in the details posted in the email, MAJOR ERROR....an email PURPORTING to be from Dr. Brown (can't be sure anymore, too many jerks) is included in the updated file at http://www.keelynet.com/energy/pbrown.htm Sorry, a lesson for me and I hope for all of us. Check it out as much as you can. As I said to one person, I'd rather report it as an error and find out Dr. Brown is truly still living, than have to stick with it as truth. -- -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 06:45:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19302; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 06:44:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 06:44:52 -0800 Message-ID: <34980170.7434@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:44:32 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Send MONEY & be saved! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"87j3b3.0.Uj4.ZL-bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! I see the rantings continue...Demon #1888 reporting in... One thing about Orffyreus, his machine was proven to work in at least two separate long term tests, 276 years ago. The inventor proved his claims but was not able to sell the device. With regard to the Uncle story with the spiral ramp and self-running marbles....it was reported by the man who said he saw it as a child. I know this man personally and he related it simply as an interesting observation, not at any time asking for money to try to duplicate it. Neither of these reports were THEORIES asking for people to send them MONEY to PROVE the theory, under the guise of a distorted belief system. I received an interesting post on the recent barrage of 'devils' den' comments.....should (hopefully when) the claimant fail to gather the money needed to build the machine, there will be emails and pages claiming suppression....after this goes on for awhile, said claimant will move to Australia or out of the public view, still never realizing he caused his own downfall. Demon #1888 signing out.... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 07:48:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16116; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:48:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:48:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712171545.NAA28248@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:49:00 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: transverse barkhausen effect Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"XPWt9.0.jx3.pG_bq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > This is remarkably similar to the magnet/coil configuration of > the Coler device. Passing current thru the magnets would create > the same transverse magnetization as described in this experiment. > > So, could transverse Barkhausen oscillation be the explanation > of the Coler device? > I guess a very interesting explanation of the Coler device was made by Mr. Aspden at : http://www.energyscience.co.uk/le07.htm Take a look ! Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 09:22:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02420; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:22:09 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:22:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3498261E.1F50@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:21:02 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dr. Paul Brown References: <3497F319.12C2@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3xnda1.0.ib._e0cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com woops! > When Tom Brown was mistakenly reported to have died under mysterious > circumstances, I called and he said it was not so. I wrote Tom Brown, should have been Tom Bearden, staying up too late...............sorry. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 12:20:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01116; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:19:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:19:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:45:28 -0500 From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Sender: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Message-ID: <199712171446_MC2-2C51-DBC2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA01094 Resent-Message-ID: <"izqFh.0.LH.WF3cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Message text written by INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Listen up? God in an argument is not logic, please don't further trash this list with your rantings....you are after money, using religion as a means to get it. That is the ONLY reason you even got on here, and I don't understand how that happened, either, maybe God intervened.... If you are 'called' to seek money in this fashion, TV time is easy to get, you could be the next Tilton....have fun in prison....no further bandwidth will I expend in your direction. (Sorry Bill, someone left the gate open...) -- < I was just gonna say that............oh well, thanks Jerry! Glenn Hinton From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 13:15:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12687; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:15:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:15:35 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:10:55 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: A. C. Clarke: Einstein Copied Maxwell, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"ymQDe1.0.763.s34cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com LETTER FROM ARTHUR C. CLARKE From: NEN, Vol. 3, No. 9, February 1996, p. 19. From: Arther C. Clarke: Dear Hal, [No, not the computer in 2001] Thanks for the January (1996) New Energy News that just arrived. A couple of comments you might like to print: l. My "Voice Across the Sea" (Harper 1958) contains a chapter "The Man Before Einstein," in which I point out that by 1890 Heaviside had already arrived at a rigorous proof of E = M C-Squared in his "Electromagnetic Theory." 2. Tapping the earth's rotation by gyroscopes -- this was used in a science fiction story, probably in "Amazing," around about 1930. I seem to recall pictures of gigantic gyroscopes many stories high. Unfortunately they triggered earthquakes, so the whole idea had to be abandoned! Keep up the good work -- I really hope that 1996 is the beginning of the new era. Already there's been spin-off from the interview The Sunday Telegraph ran with me on the last day of 1995.... All Best, /s/ Dr. Arthur C. Clarke, CBE Refer the INE Website Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 13:54:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21627; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:54:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:54:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:54:33 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34980170.7434@keelynet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Send MONEY & be saved! Resent-Message-ID: <"Rmvk81.0.iH5.Ve4cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hi Folks! > >I see the rantings continue...Demon #1888 reporting in... The rantings (a perjorative) as you put them are only coming from you it appears. >One thing about Orffyreus, his machine was proven to work in at least two >separate long term tests, 276 years ago. The inventor proved his claims >but was not able to sell the device. I'll bet you have invested in a number of bridges too! >With regard to the Uncle story with the spiral ramp and self-running >marbles....it was reported by the man who said he saw it as a child. I >know this man personally and he related it simply as an interesting >observation, not at any time asking for money to try to duplicate it. If acquaintances couldn't lie then there would be no lies told on the earth. As for what children see....or claim to see....or how their memories can be altered. Tch. Tch. Tch. Janet Reno has seen to it that several innocent people are spending their lives in jail based upon the manufactured testimonies of children. Yes, yes, the same woman who climbed to power incarcerating people for alleged child abuse in Dade County who were innocent of child abuse was also the person who said she took full responsibility for the burning to death of all the children at Waco. And people wonder why the Federal Building was bombed.:-). >Neither of these reports were THEORIES asking for people to send them >MONEY to PROVE the theory, under the guise of a distorted belief system. Nevertheless they are unsubstantiable fables which many are preferring to believe in. One wonders which is harder to believe in, a fable originating in the last several hundred years seen by a few or a miracle of GOD seen by thousands several thousand years ago? Naturally, for many on this list it is the former while they reject the later. Don't be surprised if you likewise are rejected by GOD. I notice that you still object to my original posting not based upon any objection which you have been able to raise against any of the physics presented but merely because you hate the idea that someone is coming forth and claiming that GOD has taught him a New and Apocalyptic Physics. One must conclude that you hate the idea of GOD becoming sovereign in a realm (science) which has of late been the main source attacks against the belief in GOD. Too bad. GOD is sovereign and for HIS Own purposes has decided to manefest His Sovereignty in this manner. Live with it. One can't truly wonder why you think the belief system is distorted seeing what fabulous things you are willing to believe in. Naturally, anyone who would announce that most of what you believe in is pure fakery and tall tales and outright nonsense would have to have a distorted belief system from your point of view. Sorry, fellow, what is truly distorted is your sense of values. If you would care to actually discuss either the physics or the 'belief system' other then just hurling invectives you are welcome to step up. Naturally, you won't because you are armed, it appears, with nothing but insults. No one is being asked to send money to 'Prove the Theory' as you have deceitfully implied. The Physics has already so much substantiation that proving the theory isn't an issue. We know the Physics works. The appeal was to men and women of faith (now this doesn't include you so one wonders why you would respond). Ads are targeted to specific people (you probably wouldn't respond to an ad for brassieres because it isn't targeted to you) but because you hate the idea that GOD might do a new thing upon the Earth and the HE might be using me to call the faithful to a project which will surely save many lives you have supposed to elect yourself to fight against what I have posted. This doesn't concern you but rather concerns the children of the kingdom so you ought to stand back. Further interference plays you squarely into the role of the dog in the manger. This food isn't for you so why must you stand and growl hoping to keep the children of the kingdom away from receiving blessings for acts of faith? Neither is anyone being offered salvation for contributing to Project SCYBOLT. Your impliclation that such is the case only shows that not much which you write has credibility. >I received an interesting post on the recent barrage of 'devils' den' >comments.....should (hopefully when) the claimant fail to gather the >money needed to build the machine, there will be emails and pages >claiming suppression.... No, no. You have it wrong. That's the tactic of all the inventors you believe in whose perpetual motion machines (fables) have been surpressed (not). You have to quit projecting your view of world on everyone else. This technology doesn't have to hide under such tactics because as I've testified it's source isn't myself but rather the LIVING GOD Whom I serve and Whom you deny. >after this goes on for awhile, said claimant will >move to Australia or out of the public view, still never realizing he >caused his own downfall. I suppose that's the pattern of some of your friends but its another bogus assumption on your part. >Demon #1888 signing out.... At least he had the decency to reveal what he really is:-). Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 14:15:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25092; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:14:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:14:55 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: <75c31b51.3498474f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:42:34 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Drawings & operation theory of LaFonte Generator Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_882394954_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"NRE9P.0.Z76.Sx4cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_882394954_boundary Content-ID: <0_882394954@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The drawing attached and one to be posted in 3 to 4 hours, will look very complicated. In fact they are very simple. If you follow my step by step operation theory, they should be very easy to understand. Drawing butch48.gif is of the basic layout of the device in a side view. All three rotating sections of the device are connected to a common shaft. All outer portions of each section are fixed and will be called stators because they are fixed around a rotating assembly. Each rotating part of each section will be called the rotor. All sections are inline with each other on the shaft. It would help if you printed out both drawings in color and put them side by side to reference with the text. Drawing butch49.gif is an end view of the device and will help show where each section is during it's rotation of 360 degrees. It would be best to follow just one pole thru 180 degrees as the opposite side of the shaft is just a mirror image assembly doing the same thing independent of IT'S mirror image. Understanding the three sections working together will be approached by looking at each section at a time. First, the generator section. It is very simply a rotor (permanent magnet) with a stator. the circuit of the stator coil is open from 270 deg. to 0 deg. . The only force at work here is the attraction of the rotor magnet pulling it's self to the ferrite stator to line up at 0 deg. . >From zero deg. to 90 deg. the coil circuit in the stator is closed. A voltage is induced and and a current flows and a drag is imposed on the rotor between these two points. The drag consists of, the normal attraction of the rotor magnet to the ferrite stator, plus the magnetic field produced by the current flowing in the stator, due to the falling magnetic field around the stator coil, due to the rotor magnet moving away from the stator between 0 deg. to 90 deg.. The power produced here is sent to the controller box to run the balance section controller and the remaining power is routed from the box to do external o/u work. Second is the balance section. The balance section's fuction is to counter the attraction forces in the generator section. This is a very simple matter. I built a fixture to test this system. How the balance system works is, as the magnet in the generator section is attracted to the stator, the balance section has two magnets working in repulsion to counter the attractive force of the generator magnet. You can turn the shaft and the forces are canceled out and it is as if the shaft had no magnets at all on it. It's very interesting to watch it turn with no resistance. See the Overunity home page and look under "updates" for the Werjefelt papers, for a full description of balance system. http://www.overunity.de/over.htm Now we have a generator and balance system turning on a shaft with no resistance to turning, but if we close the circuit of the stator coil, as the rotor moves away from the stator in the generator, we have a resistance to turning on the shaft. The forces are out of balance now. But if we could " turn off " the balance section at will, then we could use the energy being put into the system by the generator when the rotor magnet is being pulled to the stator and the circuit is OPEN between 270 and 0 deg.. There is work here available and it can be use to increase the systems kinetic energy. The trick is, how to turn the balance system off and on and not use as much energy as the generator produces during 0 to 90 degrees with the circuit closed. If you increase the RPM then the time period that the on/off switch for the balance system has to stay turned on becomes shorter. But ultra fast switching can use lots of power if you have to go thru a high induction coil in your switch design. The trick: turn off the balance system with a switch that has no induction working against you. Turn it on and off, the shorter, the faster the RPM can be and the less energy used. Here is how. The balance section controller: This is the hardest part to understand, but it is nothing more than a one to one turns ratio transformer cut in half and operated on DC pulses. One half is fixed, and one half is on the shaft rotating. The transformer aspect of it is that a purely resistive load on the secondary (shaft location) will keep the input and output current wave forms in phase and no induction will effect the input current. The attraction force between the fixed and rotating parts of this "transformer" are what turn off the balance section by inducing to the shaft a force opposite to the balance section force, but just during the 270 to 0 deg. range. This allows the generator section during this range of travel to use it's attractive force for work. Then when the rotor is lined up with the stator and ready to go from 0 to 90 degrees to produce power, the switch is turned off and the repulsion force in the balance section comes into play again, and it, plus the kinetic energy the generator produced between 270 and 0 deg. is now able to push the generator rotor thru 0 to 90 degrees to produce a voltage/current. The falling magnetic field in the primary of the "transformer" when the balance controller is turned off, can be recovered to a certain degree as can the field around the secondary. Question and or comments, please. 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us+OOh435Avj+bFzf1+eNVdbcmaxgKsrnGDOfrL8+87aBb9xkcO9Lnfs6g38p3p8/t8Od2sr Qvf8V/mirDN51yuPfO1zgrgafvfqvHzTzYff8vpUsz391TCZPyLDrV4MnpxKIrmyje5LeLPp lMMh66GvauoLVJcwtr64wY9rMMLeaV5lIt2RhUD4EhGVwBeU2VGQgPkroNMOCDPiqYx3loOf /PTHnAumMD+aYpGKBjXCDGaqTnUKYJ9A+DQRwsl54vNf0xqYwp3Fa3Ucex4Ht8OmBZKQasdr jpuGqMOu8bBCoJNU6yrXNSFGrnit2lbmKlWu/XEui2M844C0aJoxinFS+gnVFEPotzjqhYt0 vCPjqojHjdhxj37cmx7/eJE+CrKQhjwkIhOpyEUyspGOF3wkJCMpyUlSspKWvCQmM6nJTXIy WAEBADs= --part0_882394954_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 15:08:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05534; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:08:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:08:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:07:43 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712171446_MC2-2C51-DBC2@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"vlgk52.0.MM1.Kj5cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Glenn Hinton writes: >Message text written by INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Listen up? >God in an argument is not logic, please don't further trash this list >with your rantings.... The only one ranting here is you. Hating the very idea that GOD might reign sovereign (even in science); it must be awful for you to see it starting to come true. I don't feel your pain. >you are after money, using religion as a means to get it. Wrong. Using the faith of the children of the kingdom. You have no part in such a kingdom so you really shouldn't be concerned. Now it sometimes requires money to bring a new technology on line so it is appropriate that this technology be owned by and given to those whose faith was manifested in support. It is likely that you won't be part of such ownership since you evidently lack the requisite faith. Let's see now, when communities of christians raise funds to build meeting houses, or when they raise funds to dig a well or when they raise funds for any humanitarian purpose or to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ then these would be okay or not okay with you? Probably not okay because they were using religion. When Moses was given the plan of the Ark of the Covenant it was okay or not okay by you to collect freewill offerings in order to build it? Probably not okay because it had something to do with religion or GOD or in particular something to do with obedience to GOD which idea you must surely hate. Now in these last days GOD is showing a new thing upon the Earth and this new thing is for the benefit of the children of the kingdom of GOD. It isn't for you and you have nothing whatsoever to do with it and it requires nothing of you at all. What is it to you if men and women of faith are moved to contribute to this new thing? How does it hurt you? It isn't your money but rather theirs. And it is theirs to contribute to this project or not as they are moved in their heart by GOD or not. Why are you filled with envy for something that isn't even yours? >That is the ONLY reason you even got on here, and I don't >understand how that happened, either, maybe God intervened.... GOD, being sovereign, is always intervening. >If you are 'called' to seek money in this fashion, TV time is easy to >get, you could be the next Tilton....have fun in prison....no further >bandwidth will I expend in your direction. See, your envy even drives you to make comparisions with known charlatans like Tilton but you shouldn't even be envious of him knowing that he was sent to gather together those with itching ears who might be easily led astray - the tares. Now you suppose or suggest that what I am doing is illegal. Are you now offering legal advice? Perhaps you are a lawyer? Isn't freedom great! Isn't it wonderful that this country allows men and women the free exercise of religion and that they can do it without being restrained by the vile envyings of men such as yourself? Myself and my ancestors have been willing to shed their blood to maintain such freedoms but you, friend, as evidenced by your letter only chafe at the exercise of such freedoms. >(Sorry Bill, someone left the gate open...) And you got trampled. >I was just gonna say that............oh well, thanks Jerry! >Glenn Hinton Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 15:37:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01877; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:37:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:37:19 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: <9053dea7.34985fc0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:26:54 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: butch48.gif second drawing of pair for LaFonte generator Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_882401214_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"TGHKv1.0.DT.j86cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_882401214_boundary Content-ID: <0_882401214@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Download and put with butch47.gif sent about 2 hours before. 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QYiWVKUUOukMvblSmD6npTx8aUxtKpqEorSmN+VpT336U6AGVahDJWpRjXpUpCZVqUtlalNT FRAAADs= --part0_882401214_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 15:58:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18257; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:58:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:58:40 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:58:11 GMT Message-ID: <34996285.9088165@mail.zip.com.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA18229 Resent-Message-ID: <"wmcZG.0.8T4.kS6cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:07:43 -0800 (PST), "C. Cagle" wrote: Mr. Cagle, YOU are out of line. You are a con-man of the first water. Even though you dress it up in fine clothing, the weave is imaginary. Many evils have been perpetrated in the name of religion; you are not even particularly original. This is certainly not the first time that a con-artist has tried to operate under the cloak of this-or-that religious organisation in order to acquire an aura of fraudulent respectability (so he can defraud more people, more completely) or to attempt to escape the consequences of his actions. You have accused several others on this discussion group of being "tools of satan", simply on the basis that they disagree with you, what you are doing or the way in which you are going about it. I hereby categorically state that the only "satan-inspired" asshole around here is yourself. Anyone who attempts to take advantage of others in your particular dirty little way richly deserves a specially reserved spot in the very heart of whatever hell he happens to believe in. It'd be different if you actually had something worthwhile that you were willing to share with the group but what you're asking for is a one way flow of money straight to you with nothing in exchange other than mystical maunderings of "what-might-be"'s, up to and including "eternal damnation" if we don't pony up. The emperor has no clothes. So kindly take your batshit somewhere else rather than consuming bandwidth where you're not wanted and have no place. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 16:37:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA30853; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:37:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:37:16 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:37:05 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34996285.9088165@mail.zip.com.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"tHiJ3.0.-X7.w07cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:07:43 -0800 (PST), "C. Cagle" >wrote: > > > >Mr. Cagle, YOU are out of line. > >You are a con-man of the first water. And you are setting yourself up for a lawsuit. I understand they take a dim view of libel in Australia, as they do here. >Even though you dress >it up in fine clothing, the weave is imaginary. Many evils have >been perpetrated in the name of religion; you are not even >particularly original. This is certainly not the first time that a >con-artist has tried to operate under the cloak of this-or-that >religious organisation in order to acquire an aura of fraudulent >respectability (so he can defraud more people, more completely) >or to attempt to escape the consequences of his actions. > >You have accused several others on this discussion group of being >"tools of satan", I never used such language. This means that you don't value the truth and that what you say cannot be relied upon. simply on the basis that they disagree with you, >what you are doing or the way in which you are going about it. > >I hereby categorically state that the only "satan-inspired" asshole >around here is yourself. > >Anyone who attempts to take advantage of others in your particular >dirty little way richly deserves a specially reserved spot in the >very heart of whatever hell he happens to believe in. > >It'd be different if you actually had something worthwhile that >you were willing to share with the group but what you're asking >for is a one way flow of money straight to you with nothing in >exchange other than mystical maunderings of "what-might-be"'s, >up to and including "eternal damnation" if we don't pony up. I never made such statements. My, you sure do rattle on. >The emperor has no clothes. And neither do your unwarranted accusations. >So kindly take your batshit somewhere else rather than >consuming bandwidth where you're not wanted and have no place. Contrary to your belief, others have indicated a desire that I stay. Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 17:17:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04762; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:17:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:17:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3498A400.6A7E@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:18:08 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Send MONEY & be saved! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bqbso.0.IA1.ac7cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com C. Cagle wrote: > > >Hi Folks! > > > >I see the rantings continue...Demon #1888 reporting in... > > The rantings (a perjorative) as you put them are only coming from you it > appears. Not so, this thread is way off topic, so count me in, right behind Jerry in the ranting section! > ...Don't be surprised if you likewise are rejected by GOD. Hmm, this must be a different Christian God than the one I've heard so much about. You know, that compassionate, forgiving one? > I notice that you still object to my original posting not based upon any > objection which you have been able to raise against any of the physics > presented but merely because you hate the idea that someone is coming forth > and claiming that GOD has taught him a New and Apocalyptic Physics. One > must conclude that you hate the idea of GOD becoming sovereign in a realm > (science) which has of late been the main source attacks against the belief > in GOD. Too bad. GOD is sovereign and for HIS Own purposes has decided to > manefest His Sovereignty in this manner. Live with it. Ok, Joe Newman has also claimed devine inspiration. We discussed his theories, views on conventional physics, and his interpretation of experimental results. We drew a clear line back then, and choose several areas that were not appropriate subjects for this forum. I think that the same should apply in this case. Any objections? > No, no. You have it wrong. That's the tactic of all the inventors you > believe in whose perpetual motion machines (fables) have been surpressed > (not). You have to quit projecting your view of world on everyone else. Lets see, he's got it all wrong, and he's the one projecting his world view on everyone else? He's not projecting his theology now is he? This is way off topic, I ask that we take the same position as with Mr. Newman's claims. Physics, sure, discuss that, interpreations of experimental evidence, absolutely, issues of personal theology, take it elsewhere please. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 17:22:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18082; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:21:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:21:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19851218185933.00689a0c@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1985 20:14:33 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: save yourself Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_iEad.0.NQ4.Tg7cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Mr Cagle Since this list is composed of liars,perpetual motion wanna bees,demons and a whole host of other horrible things perhaps it would be best is you would not associate with them lest you would become corrupted.There seems to be a lot of atheist,agnostic,pagan and my own pantheist beliefs on this list that may cause you to doubt your christianity.I know with god whispering in your ear all the time you are probably immune to this type of thing but why take a chance.Unfortunately you can't do the christian thing to correct this situation but killing people who disagree with you is illegal now except in war.Perhaps you can start your own list and then you can make up the rules.You may think a lot of the people on this list don't like you but I am sure they would be overjoyed for you if you started your own list and would wish you the very best in your endeavor. Thinking of you Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 17:29:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19305; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:29:09 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:29:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3498A685.43CF@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:28:53 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Call for Moderation! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zuu66.0.Xj4.Yn7cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com C. Cagle wrote: > >So kindly take your batshit somewhere else rather than > >consuming bandwidth where you're not wanted and have no place. > > Contrary to your belief, others have indicated a desire that I stay. This is way out of line. If you wish to stay, discuss the physics, or interpretations of experimental evidence, not theology. Theology has its place, but this is not it. If we cannot agree to this, then I call for moderation. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 18:03:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24480; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:03:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:03:05 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712170657.WAA10788@italy.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:13:51 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: sprouts with turntable Resent-Message-ID: <"e4k_P3.0.D-5.MH8cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave - > ... the resistor source, with no rotation, produced > the flow effect. That seems to be the clincher. Maybe conductive heat as well as convection just warms up the center and makes a radial thermal gradient, and the sprouts like the warmth, leaning in with the gradient? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 18:11:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26269; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:09:29 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:09:29 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <34980170.7434@keelynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:21:35 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Cagle & list issues Cc: billb@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"EFbSJ1.0.MQ6.GN8cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles Cagle wrote: > And people wonder why the Federal Building was bombed.:-) I was trying to stay out of this, but this is too much. This is absolutely disgusting nonsense. Post it on the political/religious/militia/paranoid/angry-nut newsgroups, but not here. By the First Amendment, anyone ought to have a forum to say anything they want to, but I think we also have a right to set up a semi-private area where the discussion can be somewhat more limited. Bill Beaty has exercised that right. I also choose to exercise that right by subscribing to his list to participate in discussions of new energy, anomalous science, etc. along with the others here. We can worry about what God or Janet Reno does in another context and forum. It is clear now that Charles Cagle is unable to abide by these ideas, and will continue to post religious/political claims here which many of us find very objectionable, not to mention off-topic. That's too bad too, because a polite *secular* discussion about the principles of his theoretical device are probably of some interest to myself and the rest of the list members. But it's become very obvious that there isn't the slightest chance that's going to happen. And to lay the blame for that on people like myself, Keith, Jerry, or others who object to this list being used for that purpose is just a further example of the kind of twisted reasoning Mr. Cagle's been dispensing, and why it would be best if he left. I hope Bill will step up and end this now. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 18:24:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29024; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:23:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:23:59 -0800 (PST) From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel and stuff Message-ID: <19971217.212440.8271.6.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> <3.0.1.32.19971217000549.006fbe50@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3496DA0B.55DD@keelynet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-18,22-23,27-28,35-36,41-42,46-47,53-58 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:22:19 EST Resent-Message-ID: <"Fa-yT.0.O57.za8cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:44:11 -0800 Jerry writes: >Hi John! > >You wrote: >> How about some more information to back up your claim (variable >> inertia). Can you give us a pointer to info on Bulls Impulse impact >> device? >On the web, a fellow named David Cowlishaw has been promoting his idea > >GIT (gravitational inertial thruster)...David and I were in contact a >year or so ago when he first proposed his theory. > >Since that time, there have been numerous successful tests which have >resulted in pictures of units in operation as well as full plans to >build >your own, posted to his website. I definately plan to take a look. Curious to see if it is related to NIPD (net inertial propulsion device)....kind to partial to it since it was my first "weird science" book I purchased (back in '77, with paper route money!). BTW, what site can I look for TOMI plans (or just a simple diagram). The book "Free Energy Secrets" by Franklin Kilpatrick has a simple experiment based on H. Johnson's PMM, which results in a simple linear PMM. I am going to send Jerry a photocopy , wheter he likes it or not ; ). Back when i first rec'd the book I had a idea, sort of like the smot, using spaced magnets with a decreasing spacing as you moved along to gradually increase flux density, an "pull" the rotor along. The key to "smot" like operation is to have the ball drop laterally from the array at some point by gravity, that is why a ramp must be used, if the array is "too" strong, say strong enough to pull a ball vertically, then the ball could not escape the magnetic field and would lock up. Working on my first smot array to see if the really is anything to this. Has anyone built a mark 2 array with more than the 5 sets of magnets? 6 or 7 may allow more height and more consistant roll-arounds (actually, looking at mark 4 on Greg's site, he should have at least two arrays, one on each side). IF I can get a smot to work, I plan to replace the perm magnets with a electromagnet array, and monitor the current as a ball moves through the array (if any one beats me to this let me know as I'm pretty slow when it comes to building stuff). The only reason I went on this tangent I that I had an Idea of using a smot-like device to move in-out some weights on a wheel (the smots would be stationary, and the rim would pass through it. One would be used to "pull" a weight out, say at the 2-o'clock position, and the second would shove it back, at the 4 o'clock position. So it would be unbalanced only a small portion of the rotation. Hopefully you can visualize the rest.) Enough for now. Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 18:53:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24722; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:53:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:53:28 -0800 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:46:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"3FDEa.0.B26.c09cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Please don't presume to teach Christian theology. As soon as you opened > your mouth you screwed up. Jesus said "An evil and adulterous generation > seeketh after a sign;..." Sad to say, sir, so did you. From the onset. Jesus threw out the money changers, etc. in the temple as well- remember that? Now, while I don't begrudge someone making money to support themselves and to possibly support others- but this whole thing stinks of hypocrisy. No, I won't go so far as to call you one. No, I'm not free of guilt or sin- and NEITHER ARE YOU. If you're such a good Christian, why don't you be a little more forthright about providing more information? Are you afraid that someone will cheat you out of your God given intellectual information? If God gave you this information, it was meant to be given to ALL. Not to someone who can pay for it. What about all those poor souls who are Christians who truly are that that CAN'T afford you? What will they do when it all comes crashing down in the end-times? Will they be left to suffer? Perhaps. Perhaps even because you failed at your task- which wasn't to make money selling these devices or to raise money for a non-profit org to build the first one. It sadens me and sickens me to see someone profess to be a Christian and be so twisted up inside to make all the statements that you do- of people being hypocrites, of being so arrogant as to assume that you're right, and on and on... This is insane and does nothing to prove anything to anyone. Mark, while he's a misguided soul (my opinion- all atheists and agnostics are misguided (I know, I was...)- doesn't make them wrong...), is QUITE right about what he points out. And, I see that he touched a nerve based on the response you gave. It's quite easy to CLAIM you're a Christian and do nothing to really play the part. Again, I can't point fingers, I'm as guilty as you for my past actions. But shouldn't you be a little ashamed of yourself? I know I am for what I've done in the past. > > Mr. Cagle, please consider that the best possible way to convince doubters > >(in this case) is to provide tangible evidence. If you can show without doubt > >that your system works, beyond interpretation (50 Watts in, 5000 Watts out is > >pretty hard to misinterpret), might you not save a soul or three? Please re-read this Mr. Cagle. He does make a VALID point. > You are confused Mark. I'm not trying to save any souls. GOD alone is > sovereign in that realm. I am merely giving an opportunity for some souls > to contribute (in faith) to a GOD given technology. Such people certainly > are welcome to all the info I have on the subject and if they are not > convinced then no harm done but if they are then they should not be slack > in helping it an every way they can. And this is, sadly, where I think you're mistaken. The salvation of souls is God's task yes. But God doesn't dictate our actions. God lets us have free will. Therefore it is your task as a Christian to live the way Christ and God would have us- and to help others to find the light. Most will not find it on their own. It's why there's churches. It's why we need ministries. Each of us are responsible for the task of helping other Christians and to help lost sinners find the way. Not by condemning them- but by showing them a better way. You might want to look within your heart and ask, do you really have faith. I'm sorry and I know I shouldn't be saying this, but I really (and sadly) don't see any in you. > As for your claim that you are just trying to stay on track: No you aren't. Yes, he is. You seem to want to avoid giving out anything that might be used to produce our own SCYBOLT(tm) reactor. Which, by the way, is your right. When you start draping religion with it, you need to start questioning your motives- religion has NOTHING to do with it. > If you wanted to stay on track then you would look at my website where I > clearly state that an operating SCYBOLT(tm) reactor has not yet been built. No, but have you done **ANY** experiments that could be reproduced that show us that you're not lying through your teeth? Care to share with us something of that nature? > This is an infant technology and must go through some of the stages of any > revolutionary idea. You want to see an operational reactor and then you > will believe? Who wouldn't? Produce an experiment that we can reproduce that doesn't jive with the current "laws" of physics that your theories prove does exsist- along with your theories in detail. That will convince a lot of people quicker than what you've been doing up to this point. > Yet we see posted on this list a host of > outright fakeries like the Bessler Wheel and Uncles perpetual motion > thingamajig and great attention and effort is given to these ideas but > really what are these? Fantastic con jobs, fables. Fakeries. You guys > eat that stuff up like it was candy. Are you so *sure* of yourself that this is the case? Let me REMIND you of the very real fact that all of the stuff you're handing out goes against the very same "laws" of physics that they do. Using this line of reasoning, one could assume you're trying to be a con-artist too. No, I'm not saying that you are one. Nothing could be further from the truth. What I am saying is that one should not throw stones in a glass house. Whole thing might come crashing down on you. [largely irrelavent rant snipped.] > Then your list owner, William Beaty chastises me for a lack of a Christian > attitude and demeanor but nevertheless on his next private communication > confesses that he is not a Christian. If you people can't see the > hypocrisy in that then you truly are a blind bunch. "Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone..." > Here's the rules if you wish to communicate with me. You want to know > about the physics or the technology and I most likely will be happy to > oblige. You want to attack me, that's fine too but expect to get the same > right back in your face because I flat have no tolerance for people who > make unprovoked innuendos, accusations, or ad hominen attacks, or who tell > outright lies. Those are my rules. Now if any of you want to communciate > via email, you are welcome. I'm sure Beaty will unsubscribe me after this > message. I want to discuss the physics involved. I want to see a reproducable experiment. I don't want to discuss faith. For that, I have my minister and other places and people local to me. And, that, sir, is what most of this "den of devils" as you've put it have been asking you to do. It doesn't take a Christian to spot one who is being something of a hypocrite. And that's what they were pointing out. If you don't like what I have had to say, you're entitled to your opinion. My opinion, wrong as it is, I'm entitled to- and I don't think you're much of a real Christian. Real Christians don't lord their beliefs over others. Real Christians don't lord thier faith over those who don't believe. You're doing BOTH right now. -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 20:52:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12443; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:52:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:52:25 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <34980170.7434@keelynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:51:58 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Send MONEY & be saved! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"PuEcj.0.F23.8mAcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 4:54 PM -0500 12/17/97, C. Cagle wrote: > >At least he had the decency to reveal what he really is:-). > >Charles Cagle, CEO >Singularity Technologies, Inc. >1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. >Salem, OR 97304 So, do you have the decency to reveal what you are? Is Singular Technologies, Inc., a corporation or a religious institution or what? If we send you $$$ is it a donation or an investment? r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 21:03:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19486; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:03:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:03:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:01:48 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <34996285.9088165@mail.zip.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0zF0A.0.Nm4.XwAcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Alan Schneider wrote: > On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:07:43 -0800 (PST), "C. Cagle" > wrote: > > > Mr. Cagle, YOU are out of line. > > You are a con-man of the first water. Even though you dress > it up in fine clothing, the weave is imaginary. Many evils have > been perpetrated in the name of religion; you are not even > particularly original. This is certainly not the first time that a > con-artist has tried to operate under the cloak of this-or-that > religious organisation in order to acquire an aura of fraudulent > respectability (so he can defraud more people, more completely) > or to attempt to escape the consequences of his actions. > Hey, calm down people! At least give the guy a break for now. How many of you have actually looked at his website? I have copied to disk everything I found on his website. It will take a few days (in my "spare time" :-) to digest it. But there may be some merit there. So far I have observed some truths, some inaccuracies, some real data and some opinions. I need to locate some books I have read (but do not own) from the local university library to give some references pertaining to both counts (the accurate and inaccurate statements). More coming. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 22:27:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26802; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:27:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:27:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:27:09 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <34980170.7434@keelynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Send MONEY & be saved! Resent-Message-ID: <"qWHri1.0.gY6.89Ccq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ralph Muha wrote: >At 4:54 PM -0500 12/17/97, C. Cagle wrote: >> >>At least he had the decency to reveal what he really is:-). >> >>Charles Cagle, CEO >>Singularity Technologies, Inc. >>1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. >>Salem, OR 97304 > >So, do you have the decency to reveal what you are? >Is Singular Technologies, Inc., a corporation or a >religious institution or what? If we send you $$$ >is it a donation or an investment? > >r Reread the original post and the website and you will find the answers to both questions. regards, Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 22:53:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA30272; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:53:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:53:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:53:34 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Cease this now! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BG_lU3.0.vO7.qXCcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK, enough with the private warnings. I'm not going to unsubscribe anyone here. However, if this crap continues, I'll have to turn off the list for a few days in order to force the flamewar to move to private email where it belongs. Please, people! If you wish to give an angry response to an attack, just SEND IT VIA PRIVATE EMAIL. What's so hard about doing this? If you wish to post something to freenrg-L about the current controversy, then you'd better heavily edit your message in order to remove ANYTHING that could REMOTELY be interpreted as anger, insults, or namecalling. Off-topic discussions are sometimes appropriate and sometimes not. But if you wish to object to an off-topic discussion, be VERY sure that your objection doesn't violate th rule below. Is the following rule clear enough? 2. Flamewars are banned. No namecalling or intentional insults on this list. Use private email if you want to be nasty. To prevent spontaneous flamewars, be ever aware of the psychology of email, since it is easy to misinterpret a message, hear unintentional insults, and respond in kind. If you respond in kind to a nonexistent insult, then *you* threw the first punch. So, if you feel offended, first ask the author if a particular statement is intended to be insulting. You might get an explanation or apology. If you respond in kind to a genuine insult, you lower yourself to their level, participate in a flamewar, and jeapordize your subscription to the list. And if you give a cool- headed response to an obvious attack, you make your attacker look like a flamer. If you absolutely must respond to insults, do it via private email, keep it OFF freenrg-L. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 00:08:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05221; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:07:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:07:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:06:56 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"ubDpS3.0.TH1.QdDcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Frank Earl wrote: C. Cagle wrote: >> Please don't presume to teach Christian theology. As soon as you opened >> your mouth you screwed up. Jesus said "An evil and adulterous generation >> seeketh after a sign;..." > >Sad to say, sir, so did you. From the onset. Jesus threw out the >money changers, etc. in the temple as well- remember that? Now, >while I don't begrudge someone making money to support themselves >and to possibly support others- but this whole thing stinks of >hypocrisy. No, I won't go so far as to call you one. But you just did in so many words but then with words you are trying backpedal. This makes you is a really inept dissembler. >No, I'm not free of guilt or sin- and NEITHER ARE YOU. If you're such a >good Christian, why don't you be a little more forthright about >providing more information? Whoever said I was a good Christian? I never said such a thing in my life that I know of. What makes you think I haven't been forthright? >Are you afraid that someone will cheat >you out of your God given intellectual information? >If God gave you this information, it was meant to be given to ALL. Now you are ready to dictate the distribution of the gifts of GOD, eh? Perhaps you think you are GOD? On what basis could you possibly support that idea (that it was meant to be given to ALL)? Messiah specifically said not to cast one's pearls before swine lest they turn and rend you. Of course, that is exactly what has happened in this list. A number of you have turned to rend me. Therefore, you who have done so must be the swine Messiah referred to. Unfortunately there isn't an easy way to bring forth the Word of GOD among men without a great deal of strife from the enemy. >Not to someone who can pay for it. What about all those poor souls who >are >Christians who truly are that that CAN'T afford you? They can always afford to give to the kingdom of GOD. Recall the widow and her two mites? > What will they do when it all comes crashing down in the end-times? > Will they be left to suffer? You shouldn't be concerned since you have no part with them. >Perhaps even because you failed at your task- which wasn't to make money >selling these devices or to raise money for a non-profit org to build >the first one. I haven't failed. Nor will I fail if GOD be with me. The side you backed, friend, on the other hand has already failed. >It sadens me and sickens me to see someone profess to be a Christian and >be so twisted up inside to make all the statements that you do- of people >being hypocrites, of being so arrogant as to assume that you're right, I know. Poor fellow, it must really grieve you to run into someone who knows they are right. You lack the confidence simply because you are wandering about in the dark. I don't lack the confidence because the LIVING GOD before Whom I stand is with me. and >on and on... This is insane and does nothing to prove anything to anyone. >Mark, while he's a misguided soul (my opinion- all atheists and agnostics >are misguided (I know, I was...)- doesn't make them wrong...), is QUITE >right about what he points out. And, I see that he touched a nerve based >on the response you gave. It's quite easy to CLAIM you're a Christian and >do nothing to really play the part. Again, I can't point fingers, I'm as >guilty as you for my past actions. Don't assume I'm guilty or that I live in the past like you who are still encumbered by past sins. >But shouldn't you be a little ashamed >of yourself? I know I am for what I've done in the past. That's because you still are in your sins. Keep fighting the Holy Spirit like you are doing now and instead of being concerned about your own sins you will remain concerned about the sins of others. >> > Mr. Cagle, please consider that the best possible way to convince >>doubters >> >(in this case) is to provide tangible evidence. If you can show without >>doubt >> >that your system works, beyond interpretation (50 Watts in, 5000 Watts >>out is >> >pretty hard to misinterpret), might you not save a soul or three? > >Please re-read this Mr. Cagle. He does make a VALID point. Please re-read the answer, there no validity in his point at all. >> You are confused Mark. I'm not trying to save any souls. GOD alone is >> sovereign in that realm. I am merely giving an opportunity for some souls >> to contribute (in faith) to a GOD given technology. Such people certainly >> are welcome to all the info I have on the subject and if they are not >> convinced then no harm done but if they are then they should not be slack >> in helping it an every way they can. > >And this is, sadly, where I think you're mistaken. The salvation of >souls is God's task yes. But God doesn't dictate our actions. God >lets us have free will. Therefore it is your task as a Christian to You obtain your tasks from GOD and I likewise will do the same. Please don't presume to tell me what GOD has required of me which may be quite different than that which HE has required of you. >live the way Christ and God would have us- and to help others to find >the light. Most will not find it on their own. It's why there's >churches. It's why we need ministries. Each of us are responsible >for the task of helping other Christians and to help lost sinners >find the way. Not by condemning them- Which is precisely why you are a world class hypocrite since all you have done is to condemn me. >but by showing them a better way. You might want to look within your heart > and ask, do you really have faith. I'm sorry and I know I shouldn't >be saying this, but I really (and sadly) don't see any in you. So with an unbridled tongue you confess you shouldn't be saying things but then say them anyway. It is hard to lack any more wisdom than that. >> As for your claim that you are just trying to stay on track: No you aren't. >Yes, he is. You seem to want to avoid giving out anything that might >be used to produce our own SCYBOLT(tm) reactor. Which, by the way, >is your right. When you start draping religion with it, you need to >start questioning your motives- religion has NOTHING to do with it. I don't need to question my motives, but perhaps you need to question why you have such a burning envy of things which pertain not to you. >> If you wanted to stay on track then you would look at my website where I >> clearly state that an operating SCYBOLT(tm) reactor has not yet been built. >No, but have you done **ANY** experiments that could be reproduced >that show us that you're not lying through your teeth? Care to share >with us something of that nature? With such a tone don't ever suppose you would become privy to such information. >> This is an infant technology and must go through some of the stages of any >> revolutionary idea. You want to see an operational reactor and then you >> will believe? Who wouldn't? >Produce an experiment that we can reproduce that doesn't jive with >the current "laws" of physics that your theories prove does exsist- >along with your theories in detail. That will convince a lot of >people quicker than what you've been doing up to this point. There is already lots of experimental evidence but again I can't imagine wanting to share that info with the likes of you with such a wretched attitude. >> Yet we see posted on this list a host of >> outright fakeries like the Bessler Wheel and Uncles perpetual motion >> thingamajig and great attention and effort is given to these ideas but >> really what are these? Fantastic con jobs, fables. Fakeries. You guys >> eat that stuff up like it was candy. > >Are you so *sure* of yourself that this is the case? Of course. >Let me REMIND you of the very real fact that all of the stuff you're >handing out goes against the very same "laws" of physics that they do. Wrong again. >Using this line of reasoning, one could assume you're trying to be a >con-artist too. No, I'm not saying that you are one. Sure you are. You are just trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth at once. Anyone can see the duplicity with which you have arrayed yourself. >Nothing could be further from the truth. >What I am saying is that one should not >throw stones in a glass house. Whole thing might come crashing down >on you. > >[largely irrelavent rant snipped.] > >> Then your list owner, William Beaty chastises me for a lack of a Christian >> attitude and demeanor but nevertheless on his next private communication >> confesses that he is not a Christian. If you people can't see the >> hypocrisy in that then you truly are a blind bunch. > >"Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone..." > >> Here's the rules if you wish to communicate with me. You want to know >> about the physics or the technology and I most likely will be happy to >> oblige. You want to attack me, that's fine too but expect to get the same >> right back in your face because I flat have no tolerance for people who >> make unprovoked innuendos, accusations, or ad hominen attacks, or who tell >> outright lies. Those are my rules. Now if any of you want to communciate >> via email, you are welcome. I'm sure Beaty will unsubscribe me after this >> message. > >I want to discuss the physics involved. I want to see a reproducable >experiment. I don't want to discuss faith. Look how demanding you are. 'I want, I want, I don't want. Tch, Tch. Tch. You get nothing is what you get. >For that, I have my minister and other places and people local to me. Yes and we can all see how very well they have done by you (not). > And, that, sir, is what most of this "den of devils" as you've put >it have been asking you to do. It doesn't take a Christian >to spot one who is being something of a hypocrite. And that's what >they were pointing out. >If you don't like what I have had to say, you're entitled to your >opinion. My opinion, wrong as it is, Glad you could recognize that. >I'm entitled to- and I don't >think you're much of a real Christian. Real Christians don't lord >their beliefs over others. Real Christians don't lord thier faith >over those who don't believe. You're doing BOTH right now. Amazing that you are attempting to lord your beliefs concerning what constitutes a 'real' Christian but are absolutely clueless as to the extent of your own hyprocrisy. Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 00:09:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05441; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:09:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:09:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:08:26 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"C94Rm1.0.vK1.meDcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Frank Earl Wrote: >I want to discuss the physics involved. Then you should have brought some of those questions to the forefront. But you didn't. What does this mean but that you don't has even a tidbit of truth in you. If you wanted to discuss the physics then you should have done that instead of giving us all a lesson in how to mock christianity by pretending to be one. >I want to see a reproducable experiment. I don't want to discuss faith. Nevertheless you ranted on quite a bit about faith and so on. That makes it pretty clear that the truth really isn't in you. With an attitude like you have you'll get nothing from me. >For that, I have my minister and other places and people local to me >And, that, sir, is what most of this "den of devils" as you've put >it have been asking you to do. No it isn't and I've been warned off of this so I'll probably get kicked out of this 'den of devils' but what you said is an outright prevarication (commonly,a lie). Most of what people have been asking me to do is not be here because it is unpalatable to them to like Physics with GOD or to see an offering be made to men and women of faith to participate in a new thing which GOD is bringing forth. That is what is hateful to most of those who have attacked me including you who claim to be a christian. Naturally the easiest way for you to deal with it would be to declare that I'm not a christian so that you can safely join with the others but continue to retain your false guise as a christian. Amazing how the Word of GOD cuts right to the quick and draws such men as you out into the open for all the world to see. Well, now you've been exposed. Your fate is fixed and there's not much else to say about you. >It doesn't take a Christian to spot one who is being >something of a hypocrite. Great then since you are convinced I'm not one I'll merely note that this person whom you perceive as a non-christian spots a non-christian in you. Surely you couldn't argue with that now could without arguing with yourself and making yourself even the greater liar? :-). And that's what they were pointing out. >If you don't like what I have had to say, you're entitled to your >opinion. My opinion, wrong as it is, I'm entitled to- and I don't >think you're much of a real Christian. It doesn't really matter much what you think now does it? > Real Christians don't lord >their beliefs over others. Real Christians don't lord thier faith >over those who don't believe. You're doing BOTH right now. It seems you are so deep in your hypocrisy that you haven't a clue that such has been nearly the whole content of your post. You are trying to jam your twisted view of christianity onto our screens and I'm afraid is just dripping off of them just like the dog spunk that it is. Really, now this all quite amusing to me because I merely posted some info and whoa! like a swarm of demons flying out from your hiding places you set yourself up in battle array. And objections weren't to the new physics on display at my website but really to the fact that I tied together this physics with the testimony that GOD gave it to me and offered an opportunity for the faithful to contribute to the development of the SCYBOLT(tm) Project. When I responded to innuendos and accusations in a strong manner some of you went wild and your venom is splattering all over screens from here to Australia. Nice work! Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 00:35:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09561; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:35:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:35:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:36:17 -0500 Message-ID: From: Anonymous Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at . To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"hZFyf.0.EL2.S1Ecq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This should not be a forum for this kind of activity. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 00:56:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11150; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:56:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:56:30 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:56:23 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: singtech@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Resent-Message-ID: <"BII1P3.0.7k2.yKEcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Okay, that was quite the test fellows. It was nice to see that out of the around 300 members of this group about 3 people came forward with honest questions and decent behavior. The rest were silent with the exception of a nice little core cadre of those who were quite vocal in their venemous and generally unprovoked attacks at what really was that which was exactly what I said it was: A project given of GOD to save many people alive. I made an appeal to this group and found it to be mostly populated by dead men. Dead men who follow perpetual motion stories with itching ears and who care not for the truth in matters of either physics or GOD. Dead men who fellowship with other dead men and with spirits which fill their hearts with hatred. The Truth of the matter is that those who attempt to separate GOD from Physics will excel in knowledge of neither. You fellows could safely struggle on here for another thousand years and would still be in the same place. Why? Because you reject the LIVING GOD and you mock the idea that HE could teach men a new and Apocalyptic Physics. The fact is even if you had a long life you won't get to struggle on here for the next thousand years because the LIVING GOD Whose servant I am has determined to make and end of your lives and to erase the memory of you from among the living. The Day of Wrath of GOD which has been spoken of by my fellowservants for three thousand years is at the very doors and shall sweep away most of you into the outer darkness. Nevertheless HE extends HIS mercy but for a small hour yet and calls all men everywhere to repentance.AMEN. Now to the timid among you who have held back their speaking out on these matters - this is the time for you to make a decision or have the decision made for you through your indecision which came to pass through your being neither hot nor cold. As to the several who did respond favorably. Welcome. But a caution. Who you fellowship among reflects exactly on your own character. If you make your abode with the wicked then you shall suffer on their account and because GOD has warned you from olden times to come out from among them and be ye separate. Beaty, thanks, for letting me drop in on your list. I just got your 'Cease This Now' message in which you say you won't unsubcribe anyone. I'm surprised at you. Can't even you keep your word? Now at least, having exposed some of these people to the Word of GOD you have had a chance to see their true nature flare up. Personally, I'd unsubscribe those really venemous members of yours and never let them back on, but you won't because you can't even keep your word on the matter. Exposing these vipers to the Word of GOD is the surest way to get them to spring up and reveal their true nature. Genesis 3:15 (KJV) "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The scripture does not say in vain: For the word of God {is} quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and {is} a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12 That is why came the immediate venemous response to my first post - because something of GOD came among this group of sleepers but the vipers were on guard and immediately according to the Word of GOD set about attempting to bruise the heel. They can do nothing else but reveal their true nature at the presence of the Word of GOD. I brought the Word of GOD among you men on this list and you all beheld the responses. You gentlemen are found wanting. Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 Ph: 503/362-7781 email> singtech@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~singtech From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 01:05:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11852; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:05:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:05:38 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD0B50.98F6EB10@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:02:17 -0800 Encoding: 17 TEXT, 40 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"p3z5C2.0.1v2.XTEcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This reply is private, *off-list*. What I have to say is, I believe, a neutral position. I have offered this to both sides of this type of debate: Mr. Cagle, you surely realize that the discussions that you are engaged in are pointless - because you are not going to convince your opponents and they will not convince you. I believe you have said so yourself, though maybe not in those words. Since the arguments are not going to result in agreement, and since they merely detract from the positive aspects of what you may have to offer, perhaps it would be best to let it be. The best way to silence an opponent in this type of forum is to merely not respond to him. That gives him nothing more to respond negatively to. Dan Quickert begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A8)`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N`!X,`0`` M``4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````%P```&1E<75I8VME``@0`0```&4```!42$E34D503%E)4U!2 M259!5$4L*D]&1BU,25-4*E=(051)2$%6151/4T%925,L24)%3$E%5D4L04Y% M551204Q03U-)5$E/3DE(059%3T9&15)%1%1(25-43T)/5$A3241%4T]&```` M``(!"1 !````L@(``*X"```F! ``3%I&=4+V]VC_``H!#P(5`J0#Y 7K`H,` M4!,#5 (`8V@*P'-E=.XR!@`&PP*#,@/&!Q,"@R(S#WIH96P#($1LNF<"@'T* M@ C/"=D[%F]X,C4U`H *@0VQ"V!N\&8A4`") >X!R@82!NL&5U='('0!P@;P"0]'1I`B N M'I8\1YBRR*@'O!D! !C=000 M(6&_(M$>8B;2"L >\ GP9R9PWR)Q"X ITR$0"X!T)I $$7(M']%C82C0'O I MIFYI(S @9RLA9Q\"!:!NFG8+@&,L,P7 ;W A$-\@D (P!" `<"*"91O@`_#_ M%1$LTBVJ(9(?Y2;#'L,?0)\C@!\P'R N,A'P;&8 +N/W+*X6<"<0;#1C)G )T3X6'N<6?_/+$$($ From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: apology: addressing error Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:07:11 -0800 Encoding: 29 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"CQGck2.0.0H2.vYEcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com oops, my apologies to all. I really did mean my last post (below) to be private. So much for auto-addressing. Dan Quickert ---------- From: Dan Quickert Sent: Thursday, December 18, 1997 1:02 AM To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Subject: RE: Re> SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call This reply is private, *off-list*. What I have to say is, I believe, a neutral position. I have offered this to both sides of this type of debate: Mr. Cagle, you surely realize that the discussions that you are engaged in are pointless - because you are not going to convince your opponents and they will not convince you. I believe you have said so yourself, though maybe not in those words. Since the arguments are not going to result in agreement, and since they merely detract from the positive aspects of what you may have to offer, perhaps it would be best to let it be. The best way to silence an opponent in this type of forum is to merely not respond to him. That gives him nothing more to respond negatively to. Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 01:14:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13187; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:13:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:13:58 -0800 Message-ID: <34990562.184E@keelynet.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:13:38 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel and stuff References: <2.2.16.19971216031908.0cbfd77a@pop.ihug.co.nz> <3.0.1.32.19971217000549.006fbe50@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3496DA0B.55DD@keelynet.com> <19971217.212440.8271.6.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3eMxr1.0.rD3.LbEcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Steve! I beleive the TOMI buildit file can be found in the energy section at; http://www.keelynet.com/energy.htm This is a list of the energy files, run though and you should see TOMI in the descriptor......mine worked fairly well as long as the roller would stay perpendicular to the two side runners....good luck! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 01:42:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11640; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:42:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:42:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3498EFB8.910A1458@bway.net> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:41:13 -0500 From: Khem Caigan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: apology: addressing error References: <01BD0B51.473B0A30@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q7pRW3.0.nr2.k_Ecq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dan Quickert wrote: > Since the arguments are not going to result in agreement, and since they > merely detract from the positive aspects of what you may have to offer, > perhaps it would be best to let it be. The best way to silence an opponent > in this type of forum is to merely not respond to him. That gives him > nothing more to respond negatively to. > > Dan Quickert In other words, to quote a bit of USENET wisdom, 'Don't feed the Trolls.'Or, as my gal would have it-'Don't wrestle with the pig. You get all muddy, and the pig LIKES it...' Peace to all, -Khem From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 01:52:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12542; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:52:07 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:52:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 02:51:13 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: sprouts with turntable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DRfd72.0.t33.59Fcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Dave - > > ... the resistor source, with no rotation, produced > > the flow effect. > >That seems to be the clincher. Maybe conductive heat as well as convection >just warms up the center and makes a radial thermal gradient, and the >sprouts like the warmth, leaning in with the gradient? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > Rick, Now you've got me CONFUSED (easy i know), I was just going to TRY this today - thinking " Kitty Oats " = wheat = too many cats around here (ugh) see the wife.. anyway K/Oats grow FAST!!.. 3"-5" in a week here. I have two (2) turn-tables "with isolating close to cover, see-through lids!:)" ------------------- I thought about about showing " 6 plants" one ON the turn table SPINNING, 4 on each of the outer edges (North, South, East, West) and one UNDER the turn-table (#6 addmittadly on the next lower shelve down ~ 2-10-14") it would be growing INTO its ceiling. Conductive heat: (?) .. rotary? ..?? If I set up the 'other' turn table with with all the 6 seeds on TOP of the platter disk.. Equally space near perimiter. Is this a Heat Rising/seeking bend (convection) (turning -growth)..non-turning -growth? OR a spinning effect (motor below), table not spinning with seeds seeing the 'conductive heat(?) from what?? I'm reading (spin) motor ON, &/or motor OFF. BUT, seeds grow (c+h20). --------------- either way, the cats won't loose.. seems though, that this should have been done long before now!.. would your (conductive heat) be best placed at a heater vent?? / tilt? Best to you & yours Merry Christmas -=se=- ps. this thread started at expalaining 'mystic areas' OUTSIDE of THERMO-sites in California where the trees/shrubs pointed inward - didn't it? Easily Confused (i guess :) -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 08:12:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16946; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:11:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:11:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:10:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712181610.IAA12972@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Bessler wheel and stuff Resent-Message-ID: <"wMqvu1.0.h84.DjKcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jerry, >This is a list of the energy files, run though and you should see TOMI in >the descriptor......mine worked fairly well as long as the roller would >stay perpendicular to the two side runners....good luck! Did you have a Kawai Motor file on his ou US patent 5,436,518? I looked but couldn't find it on you web site. Trying to find contact info and current update on his motor/generator. Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 09:26:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27666; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:26:07 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:26:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34997881.5BCD@keelynet.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:24:49 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bessler wheel and stuff References: <199712181610.IAA12972@italy.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ohMV.0.8m6.hoLcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Michael! Referring to Kawai contact information...I remember Tom Beardens' paper on Regauging mentioned the Kawai patent and I think it might have included contact info... If not, Patrick Bailey has done a wonderful service by providing a database of contacts for inventors, authors and networkers. His website is at; http://www.padrak.com/ine Quite extensive, where does he get the time and knowledge to put all of it together....amazing fellow...seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 10:45:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29857; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:45:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:45:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:45:09 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: hoax perpetrator Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"haTeN2.0.PI7.xyMcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I received a message claiming to be from the perpetrator of the Dr. Brown hoax. If this person acted respectably, I'd post his message here. His stated goal is to expose free enegy frauds. But in my opinion his main goal seems to be to draw attention to himself, to strut before a large audience, therefor I refuse to give him too much help in his attempt. Those who REALLY want to read the message can see it at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/rant.txt ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 11:25:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12167; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:25:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:25:44 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: <68e0a60.34997760@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:19:58 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Redesign of balance control section (Butch LaFonte) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_882472798_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"3I6U43.0.0-2.rYNcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_882472798_boundary Content-ID: <0_882472798@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Will type discription of operation and post in next few hours. Also will send second drawing in one hour. 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freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 11:32:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12673; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:32:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:32:36 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:24:45 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Second drawing, balance control section redesign (Butch LaFonte) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_882473085_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"9mlM41.0.u53.IfNcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_882473085_boundary Content-ID: <0_882473085@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Operation discription coming. 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27zxo2Os6Rf7e0k6Thd8WszckSbyxlI/esARTPSfJrNRxmaZ0lnu3TxTecrVrey7oSxlccOY rmI/bJsXDPYv1z3aaTP7ynF7U7XaldC/LiaY40lt1WL3u3kNPOANjHfDAraOSe97yv+O2s56 St2hLjSzuqpEolI2mkRmtHGDta1gyDP7s3nuWuUt/0nMi9ZHg4dyJFdNzLtqCtx+TS3qp5fr to993DFzvcthf9Rw2rWbjrQ0qsOdeKVoW9jjJDsNU29t6J+29a7Xo69xnHuBMlnt2d+uLt8O a+o/+PpOp7TVqw+x4jN9vfSWe7zVZWOnF/ff6j7ZvVE0X3uDJGNyr8f7vZzjPqFbmvXznvhL QKNZwO5pQAf0GQjMHgmcQAzMQA3cQA7sQA/8QBAMQREcQZsJCAAAOw== --part0_882473085_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 13:07:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05637; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:06:55 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:06:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:42:43 -0800 From: francis x roarty Subject: light gravity space and time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-to: froarty@motown.lmco.com Message-id: <3499B4F3.78B@motown.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Resent-Message-ID: <"MXOY81.0.mN1.b1Pcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill Do photons have to travel at the speed of light or can we make an argument that just like marbles in a tube they transfer the energy instantly; My premis is that photons are actually "ether" made detectable while transferring energy. I looked in my old physics book and discovered that photons have to be considered massless in order to account for their speed but if for the sake of argument you accept "ether" as consisting of an undetectable medium permeating all matter and space in the universe then the speed of the photon becomes meaningless. Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 13:27:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24187; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:27:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:27:08 -0800 Message-ID: <3499942D.BF32469D@idt.net> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:22:53 -0500 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cease this now! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rdbcP.0.qv5.gKPcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >"Please, people! If you wish to give an angry response to an attack, just SEND IT VIA PRIVATE EMAIL" I hear the voice of reason in this statement. THANK YOU BILL! -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 13:55:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18906; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:55:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:55:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Bradley McClain" To: Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:53:18 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd0bff$5a053a60$e3b978c7@mcclain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01BD0BD5.712F3260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"igK0z1.0.Hd4.WlPcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BD0BD5.712F3260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable unsubscribe Brad McClain ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BD0BD5.712F3260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

unsubscribe
Brad = McClain
------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BD0BD5.712F3260-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 14:01:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09520; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:01:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:01:37 -0800 From: KURT_BENSON@NON-HP-Boise-om8.om.hp.com X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 97 15:01:07 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3499B4F3.78B@motown.lmco.com> Subject: Re: light gravity space and time MIME-Version: 1.0 TO: froarty@motown.lmco.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="light" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="light" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H2DTa1.0.RK2.-qPcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Light traveling through a diamond is slowed down as it travels through the dense transparent medium, and light is bent by gravity so it is not massless. pretty basic physics kurt ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: light gravity space and time Author: Non-HP-froarty (froarty@motown.lmco.com) at HP-Boise,mimegw7 Date: 12/18/97 4:42 PM Hi Bill Do photons have to travel at the speed of light or can we make an argument that just like marbles in a tube they transfer the energy instantly; My premis is that photons are actually "ether" made detectable while transferring energy. I looked in my old physics book and discovered that photons have to be considered massless in order to account for their speed but if for the sake of argument you accept "ether" as consisting of an undetectable medium permeating all matter and space in the universe then the speed of the photon becomes meaningless. Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 14:25:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22768; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:25:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:25:03 -0800 From: "Bradley McClain" To: Subject: remove Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:24:07 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd0c03$a8055980$e3b978c7@mcclain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD0BD9.BF2F5180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"s144D3.0.ZZ5.zAQcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD0BD9.BF2F5180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable remove me from the list Brad McClain ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD0BD9.BF2F5180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
remove me from the list
Brad = McClain
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD0BD9.BF2F5180-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 15:58:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22585; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:57:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:57:47 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:14:51 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: sprouts with turntable Resent-Message-ID: <"DGyJU1.0.gW5.uXRcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Steve - > I thought about about showing " 6 plants" one ON the > turn table SPINNING, 4 on each of the outer edges > (North, South, East, West) and one UNDER the > turn-table (#6 addmittadly on the next lower shelve > down ~ 2-10-14") it would be growing INTO its > ceiling. I'm not usure what you're trying to say here, but as long as the plants are not themselves rotating and they are shielded as much as possible from rotating air currents, thermals and other disturbances, then that's the right way to do it. Let us know what happens. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 16:10:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26294; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:10:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:10:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:10:39 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: remove In-Reply-To: <01bd0c03$a8055980$e3b978c7@mcclain> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"O-L8k1.0.fQ6.6kRcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Bradley McClain wrote: > remove me from the list I discovered that the "welcome" file, the message which was supposed to go out to new subscribers, got reset to default. I rewrote it last week. For those who didn't receive it, it is below. It contains instructions on how to unsubscribe yourself from this list. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L If the wrong address has been subscribed and you seem to be unable to fix it yourself, contact the moderator, billb@eskimo.com WARNING: SAVE THIS MESSAGE, IT CONTAINS INSTRUCTIONS FOR UNSUBSCRIBE ************************************************************************* Welcome to FREENRG-L ************************************************************************* Created: Sept. 1995 FREENRG-L is for the discussion of experiments and devices which exhibit anomalous energy production (or consumption!), or which violate currently-accepted physics theory. This includes: * "Overunity" * Electrogravity & inertia violation * Scalar Electromagnetism * Psi phenomena and Paranormal * Relativity violation * Unusual Scientific Instruments ...and any similar topics which the regular users consider interesting (ask us!) The discussion is limited to experimentalism. Or theory-led experiments. Or theoretical implications of experiments. This is not a forum for all those controversial physics theories being ignored by mainstream science. Try NEOTECH for those. But if your theory leads directly to interesting, testable, real-world phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental possibilites. If your experiments reveal anomalies not predicted by ANY theory, definitely jump right in and discuss your findings. Also it's very acceptable to publish theoretical work on a web page and announce its presence here. Webpage & archive - - - - - - http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Send subscribe/unsubscribe commands to - - freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com Send messages to - - - - - - - - - - - - - freenrg-L@eskimo.com Digest - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com List owner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - billb@eskimo.com Inspired by - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jerry Decker's KEELYNET BBS www.keelynet.com 214-324-3501 (TX, usa) ************************************************************************* * TO SUBSCRIBE: * * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * * word "subscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * * "subscribe," of course. You will receive a "welcome" message. * * Once subscribed, send your email to freenrg-L@eskimo.com. * * * * * * TO UNSUBSCRIBE: * * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * * word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. 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The digest is actually a separate email list called freenrg-digest@eskimo.com. To use it, subscribe to the digest, then when you start receiving digest messages, unsubscribe yourself from the normal list. To converse with list users, send your messages to freenrg-L@eskimo.com, and *not* to freenrg-digest. The subscribe/unsubscribe commands are the same as for freenrg-l, but the address for commands is: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com The digest will be sent out every two days, or when the collected messages pass a size threshold of 40K, whichever comes first. ************************************************************************** FREENRG-L RULES ( WARNING! PLEASE READ! ) 1. Heavy on experimentalism. Or theory-led experiments. Or theoretical implications of experiments. This is not a forum for all those controversial physics theories being ignored by mainstream science. Try NEOTECH for those. But if your theory leads directly to interesting, testable, real-world phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental possibilites. If your experiments reveal anomalies not predicted by ANY theory, definitely jump right in and discuss your findings. Also it's very acceptable to publish theoretical work on a web page and announce its presence here. 2. Flamewars are banned. No namecalling or intentional insults on this list. Use private email if you want to be nasty. To prevent spontaneous flamewars, be ever aware of the psychology of email, since it is easy to misinterpret a message, hear unintentional insults, and respond in kind. If you respond in kind to a nonexistant insult, then *you* threw the first punch. So, if you feel offended, first ask the author if a particular statement is intended to be insulting. You might get an explanation or apology. If you respond in kind to a genuine insult, you lower yourself to their level, participate in a flamewar, and jeapordize your subscription to the list. And if you give a cool- headed response to an obvious attack, you make your attacker look like a flamer. If you absolutely must respond to insults, do it via private email, keep it OFF freenrg-L. 3. Ridicule, debunkery and believer/skeptic flamewars are banned. Let's just say that freenrg-list is a big nasty nest of "true believers" (having maybe a bit of rational skepticism,) and let the skeptics leave in disgust. The tone should be one of legitimate disagreements and respectful debate. 4. Small email files please. The limit is set to 40K right now, those exceeding the limit will be bounced back to you. Some members are on limited service, or have to pay for received email. Larger diagrams and graphics can be mailed directly to interested parties. Or, contact me and we can place them on the FREENRG-L webpage for viewing. 5. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: when you reply to a message DON'T include the ENTIRE message in your reply. Always edit it and delete as much as possible. The entire message should only be included if: (A) you are replying to a message that is several days old, or (B) you are doing a point-by-point reply to many parts of a message. Several users must pay by the kilobyte for receiving message traffic, and large amounts of redundant messages slow down eskimo.com and cause the freenrg-L traffic to be delayed. For those of us keeping logs of freenrg-L messages, the redundant messages unnecessarily double or triple the file size! So, when including a quoted message in your reply, ALWAYS DELETE SOMETHING. 6. "Junkmail" email advertizing will not be tolerated. While not illegal, widecasting of junk email ads to listserv sites is against the Unwritten Rules of the Internet. Anyone who spams freenrg-list with off-topic advertizing will be referred to the Internet Vigilante Justice team. ;) Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular freenrg-list users is acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich quick schemes no. Note: WEIRD SCIENCE now has a free for-sale area. GROWTH OF LIST SUBSCRIBERS # of users Date 1 ....... 09/03/95 28 ....... 10/07/95 97 ....... 10/22/95 114 ....... 11/18/95 133 ....... 12/03/95 153 ....... 12/27/95 285 ....... 11/27/96 310 ....... 12/06/97 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 16:54:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02481; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:54:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:54:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:54:06 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flamewars In-Reply-To: <3499942D.BF32469D@idt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Pa8BB1.0.Nc.sMScq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Josef Katz wrote: > > "Please, people! If you wish to give an angry response to an attack, > > just SEND IT VIA PRIVATE EMAIL" > > I hear the voice of reason in this statement. THANK YOU BILL! Not just reason, but also rule #2: If you absolutely must respond to insults, do it via private email, keep it OFF freenrg-L. Rule #2 is supposed to prevent stuff like the string of "SCYBOLT(tm) Faith Call" messages. Didn't work very well though. I know it's hard for us to resist the temptation to defend ourselves against insults. It's hard to resist angrily pointing out someone's questionable behavior. So don't resist it, but make very sure that you don't become the CAUSE of the problem by sending even an accidental insult to the list. Simply send it directly to the person in question. If we do not, then the result is an interminable exchange of hostile, nasty, and useless messages on freenrg-L. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 18:40:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23606; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:40:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:40:29 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD0BE4.FEC34120.kap808@europa.com> From: Steve Kaplan To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: hoax perpetrator Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:58:04 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 29 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"G9t4.0.jm5.QwTcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I tried to access the site listed below with no success. Please advise. Steve -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty [SMTP:billb@eskimo.com] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 1997 10:45 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: hoax perpetrator I received a message claiming to be from the perpetrator of the Dr. Brown hoax. If this person acted respectably, I'd post his message here. His stated goal is to expose free enegy frauds. But in my opinion his main goal seems to be to draw attention to himself, to strut before a large audience, therefor I refuse to give him too much help in his attempt. Those who REALLY want to read the message can see it at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/rant.txt ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 19:47:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16773; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:47:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:47:34 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BD0BE4.FEC34120.kap808@europa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:46:30 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: RE: hoax perpetrator Resent-Message-ID: <"u4MXh.0.z54.JvUcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com the correct URL is http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/rant.txt and believe me, calling it 'weird' is an understatement... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 00:59:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA30081; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:59:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:59:11 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:59:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712190859.AAA08459@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: sprouts with turntable Resent-Message-ID: <"4ZY0t.0.rL7.UTZcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Steve and Rick, At 02:51 AM 12/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >I thought about about showing " 6 plants" one ON the turn table SPINNING, >4 on each of the outer edges (North, South, East, West) and one UNDER the >turn-table (#6 addmittadly on the next lower shelve down ~ 2-10-14") it >would be growing INTO its ceiling. The point was to Not have the plants themselves rotating, only the turntable below, or even above in your description. I would be very interested to see if you find it is something else besides thermal convection currents. So please try it! -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 07:34:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03263; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:34:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:34:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199712191534.KAA00501@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: hoax perpetrator Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:34:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BUAtL1.0.qo.KGfcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > the correct URL is http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/rant.txt > and believe me, calling it 'weird' is an understatement... Yeah, the guy has a screw loose. Too bad really, since I'm not keen on his other targets, Pereault and Searle, either. I can't comment on Paul Brown because I don't know anything about him. -- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 11:36:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11358; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:35:50 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:35:50 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:32:03 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Balance control system revision and operation (butch) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_882559924_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"QQHiO1.0.Jn2.Ioicq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_882559924_boundary Content-ID: <0_882559924@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The balance control section works by a voltage being applied to the coil at the top of the rings shown in the drawings butch47a.gif and butch48b.gif. This starts as the ferrite bars are at a horizional position and moving clockwise toward zero degrees. The short current pulse causes a magnetic field to form around both sides of the rings going down from the coil. The coil at the bottom of the picture is a closed circuit (short circuit actually) and the rising magnetic field thru this coil induces a voltage/current into the coil that produces a magnetic field that flows in the rings in the opposite direction of the first magnetic field. When this field reaches the top coil, it's flow being opposite, will stop the back EMF in the top coil and induction drops to an ultra low level. The ferrite bars rotating on the shaft inside the ring are not affected because the magnetic fields in the rings are flowing in opposite directions and forces are opposite and equal. But as soon as the two magnetic fields reach a required strength (an attraction force strong enough to match the repulsion force of the balance system located at the middle of the shaft length), The circuit is broken in the top coil and the bottom coil will now produce a flux in the same direction as the top coil's flux.This is the force needed to counter the repulsion force in the balance system. You must remember that the shaft is rotating at a very high RPM and this force is needed for only a very, very, short pulse (between 270 and 0 degrees). The amount of energy that can be recovered in total from the magnetic fields of the ring coils will have to be arrived at thru long range testing. Comments or suggestions, please Thanks, Butch Note: The secret to o/u in this device is in the balance control system (in essence, it "turns off" the balance system for a short period). If all the smart people on this list will help, then I believe this balance control system can be perfected and overunity will result. Maybe the BIG Y configuration is the way to go? I believe we can get it to work, all it needs a joint effort of brain power to get it going. --part0_882559924_boundary Content-ID: <0_882559924@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: image/gif; name="BUTCH48B.GIF" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: inline R0lGODlhggLYAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8Hut1oS13nOt1nut 3pS93nu13oy13oy93pzG3s7e797n76XG573W563O56XO5+fv9+fn75y93nu11nOt3sbe77XO 5/f39+/v94S93u/397XW59bn78bW55zG587n773W797v797n997v9+f393O13rXW75y959bn 99be773e78bW7/f3/5S955TG3rXO763G5/f////39/f/987e987n963W55TG5//3/63O75zO 54y95///963W74y154S156XO7wQEBAgICAwMDBERERYWFhwcHCIiIikpKVVVVU1NTUJCQjk5 Of98gP9QUNYAk8zs/+/Wxufn1q2pkDMAAGYAAJkAAMwAAAAzADMzAGYzAJkzAMwzAP8zAABm ADNmAGZmAJlmAMxmAP9mAACZADOZAGaZAJmZAMyZAP+ZAADMADPMAGbMAJnMAMzMAP/MAGb/ AJn/AMz/AAAAMzMAM2YAM5kAM8wAM/8AMwAzMzMzM2YzM5kzM8wzM/8zMwBmMzNmM2ZmM5lm M8xmM/9mMwCZMzOZM2aZM5mZM8yZM/+ZMwDMMzPMM2bMM5nMM8zMM//MMzP/M2b/M5n/M8z/ 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6e2bS2FkvDiGy2x+Z5tbG5zhwhbOC5LTaAe02v/Okk+ogbKb2BQcPNE2OXquEZgI1WXU3Lmi fSrsk02DpQLjGU+L/uqeuZzmrRinUYMytKFGlCTtXrenlTmJorPbX2EKeSdl2uyOcAzdG934 Tj2Wrk5GQl1JtenQLxYzqEZtLM42Y+jSozLVOEmF4VKbKtWpUrWqVr0qVrOq1a1ytate/SpY wyrWsZJVjAEBADs= --part0_882561406_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 14:53:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24606; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:53:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:53:07 -0800 Sender: ralph@gateway.minimal.com Message-ID: <349AFABD.1D095814@minimal.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:52:45 -0500 From: ralph muha Organization: minimal, limited X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: TT Brown on the Learning Channel Sunday Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WL7Jt.0.K06.Hhlcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.discovery.com/diginets/smartviewer/schedule/tlc/1997/12/21.html http://www.discovery.com/diginets/smartviewer/episode/29/548067004.html > > Science Frontiers--Future Fantastic > Week > The Incredible Shrinking Planet > -------------------------------------- > > Scientists invent their own > high-speed flying saucers and attempt > the ultimate form of transport > teleportation. > > Air Time(s) Eastern Time: > > TLC - 16 Dec 1997 - 10:00 PM > > TLC - 16 Dec 1997 - 01:00 AM > > TLC - 21 Dec 1997 - 01:00 PM > > -------------------------------------- > Copyright © 1997 Discovery > Communications, Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 15:33:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20042; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:33:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:33:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19971219223646.30373804@tsrcom.com> X-Sender: jameshartman@tsrcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:36:46 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: James Hartman Subject: Re: TT Brown on the Learning Channel Sunday Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id PAA20018 Resent-Message-ID: <"oGyOv3.0.0v4.iGmcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:52 PM 12/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >http://www.discovery.com/diginets/smartviewer/schedule/tlc/1997/12/21.html > >http://www.discovery.com/diginets/smartviewer/episode/29/548067004.html > >> >> Science Frontiers--Future Fantastic >> Week >> The Incredible Shrinking Planet >> -------------------------------------- >> >> Scientists invent their own >> high-speed flying saucers and attempt >> the ultimate form of transport >> teleportation. >> >> Air Time(s) Eastern Time: >> >> TLC - 16 Dec 1997 - 10:00 PM >> >> TLC - 16 Dec 1997 - 01:00 AM >> >> TLC - 21 Dec 1997 - 01:00 PM >> >> -------------------------------------- >> Copyright © 1997 Discovery Communications, Inc. I hope this is the BBC program/production that I, Charles Yost, and others helped with. I never did hear back from them since March of 1996 handing over loads of information. Best Wishes, ---James E. Hartman (Hartmann) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 15:41:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20757; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:41:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:41:16 -0800 (PST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:28:22 -0500 Subject: Takahashi motorscooter Message-ID: <19971219.183349.6374.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-10,13-18 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"7aNkw3.0.945.POmcq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Saw an interesting mention about the Takahashi motorscooter in the Dec 97 issue of 73 Magazine. Apparently the editor (Wayne Green) visited England and took "it" for a test drive. He was impressed. All else I know was in a Tom Bearden article in "The Virtual Times"... www.hsv.com/writers/bearden/flash/flash.htm This is not at this time an over-unity device, but Tom seems to think that it is only a few steps away (intentional on part of the designers). note: according to W. Green, Mr. Takahashi was instrumental in the development of the Sony Trinitron and Walkman, if so, then he has impressive accomplishments behind him. TTFN Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 17:04:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01908; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:04:14 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:04:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349B43B3.15F1@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:04:03 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Yo, Umraathmaall, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RjXHK2.0.jT.Acncq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, Champion of Truth, who is humble before grammar (but not as humble as I before spelling!) email me if you would. You've been a very naughty person, for whatever reasons. You've been watching so closely you may have missed a few things. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 17:38:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06901; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:38:43 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:38:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: Re: Photon massless? Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:39:24 -0800 Message-ID: <01bd0ce8$1a3b93e0$494368cf@foo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="----------------------------"; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"vqcKb1.0.jh1.X6ocq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Photons are massless according to Einstien. the reason light slows down going thru transparent objects is: the photon is absorbed by an atom, kicking a electron to a more energetic orbit, which spontainiously decays re-emitting the photon 180 degrees. this lag time slows the percieved speed. According to the special theory of relativity mass distorts space so that light would be bent even tho it is massless. the casimir effect suposedly increases the speed of light. sorry for the misspellings as i am mildly drunk. Light traveling through a diamond is slowed down as it travels through the dense transparent medium, and light is bent by gravity so it is not massless. pretty basic physics kurt Hi Bill Do photons have to travel at the speed of light or can we make an argument that just like marbles in a tube they transfer the energy instantly; My premis is that photons are actually "ether" made detectable while transferring energy. I looked in my old physics book and discovered that photons have to be considered massless in order to account for their speed but if for the sake of argument you accept "ether" as consisting of an undetectable medium permeating all matter and space in the universe then the speed of the photon becomes meaningless. Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 18:26:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28933; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:26:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:26:41 -0800 From: K easy Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:24:30 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Balance control system revision and operation (butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"zILVc1.0.-37.Wpocq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 97-12-19 15:56:07 EST, you write: << The balance control section works by a voltage being applied to the coil at the top of the rings shown in the drawings butch47a.gif and butch48b.gif. This starts as the ferrite bars are at a horizional position and moving clockwise toward zero degrees. The short current pulse causes a magnetic field to form around both sides of the rings going down from the coil. The coil at the bottom of the picture is a closed circuit (short circuit actually) and the rising magnetic field thru this coil induces a voltage/current into the coil that produces a magnetic field that flows in the rings in the opposite direction of the first magnetic field. When this field reaches the top coil, it's flow being opposite, will stop the back EMF in the top coil and induction drops to an ultra low level. The ferrite bars rotating on the shaft inside the ring are not affected because the magnetic fields in the rings are flowing in opposite directions and forces are opposite and equal. But as soon as the two magnetic fields reach a required strength (an attraction force strong enough to match the repulsion force of the balance system located at the middle of the shaft length), The circuit is broken in the top coil and the bottom coil will now produce a flux in the same direction as the top coil's flux.This is the force needed to counter the repulsion force in the balance system. You must remember that the shaft is rotating at a very high RPM and this force is needed for only a very, very, short pulse (between 270 and 0 degrees). The amount of energy that can be recovered in total from the magnetic fields of the ring coils will have to be arrived at thru long range testing. Comments or suggestions, please Thanks, Butch Note: The secret to o/u in this device is in the balance control system (in essence, it "turns off" the balance system for a short period). If all the smart people on this list will help, then I believe this balance control system can be perfected and overunity will result. Maybe the BIG Y configuration is the way to go? I believe we can get it to work, all it needs a joint effort of brain power to get it going. >> I am not sure I completely understand this, but it seems to me that when the balance contol section is pulsed to provide a torque to overcome the deceleration torque from the S-S magnets in the balance section (between 270 and 0 degrees), there is energy being provided to the rotor by the balance control section. That is because the torque and direction of rotation are in the same angular direction. Now this energy must come from the voltage- current product used to pulse the coil. And, conventional theory would assert this is exactly the same amount of energy you will get from the generator section without slowing down the rotor (neglecting losses). Or is there more going on here? Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 20:56:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16857; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:56:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:56:25 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: <79c76c2a.349b4c9d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:42:02 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Balance control system revision and operation (butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"p4riY1.0.D74.t_qcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 97-12-19 22:13:42 EST, you write: << I am not sure I completely understand this, but it seems to me that when the balance contol section is pulsed to provide a torque to overcome the deceleration torque from the S-S magnets in the balance section (between 270 and 0 degrees), there is energy being provided to the rotor by the balance control section. That is because the torque and direction of rotation are in the same angular direction. Now this energy must come from the voltage- current product used to pulse the coil. And, conventional theory would assert this is exactly the same amount of energy you will get from the generator section without slowing down the rotor (neglecting losses). Or is there more going on here? Ken Keasy@aol.com >> Ken, You are correct, but do you see any chance that any energy can be recovered from the magnetic fields arounds the coils on the rings? I have a gut feeling that this approach is very close to o/u and that the secret is just a thought away in the design of the balance controller. What do you think? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 23:20:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29654; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:20:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:20:45 -0800 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Uncles Perpetual Motion Toy, question ?? Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 06:52:23 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34a1c9ff.91273320@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <8885ec1a.34975254@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8885ec1a.34975254@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PDWLr2.0.9F7.A7tcq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:17:22 EST, K easy wrote: >will a marble gain speed in a spiral, vortex? > >Neglecting friction losses the velocity of the marble after dropping a height >h will be determined from 1/2 mv^2 = mgh or v = sqrt(2gh); that is, the >velocity would be the same as if you just dropped it from a height h without >the spiral. Of course, in practice that velocity is reduced by losses on the >spiral, likely by quite a lot. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > This would at first glance appear to be correct, however after travelling through the spiral, the marble will be rotating, and the rotational energy had to come from somewhere, so one assumes that in fact the total gravitational energy will be divided, partly as forward kinetic energy, partly as rotational energy. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 10:20:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22320; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:20:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:20:23 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:10:24 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: LaFonte Generator Home Page Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"KYBvh1.0.bS5.bn0dq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Just drawings at this time, putting text in today. LaFonte Generator Home Page Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 10:51:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25717; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:51:42 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:51:42 -0800 (PST) From: K easy Message-ID: <845c56f8.349c0384@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:42:26 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Balance control system revision and operation (butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"ZpwHc.0.kH6.yE1dq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 97-12-20 03:25:29 EST, you write: << You are correct, but do you see any chance that any energy can be recovered from the magnetic fields arounds the coils on the rings? I have a gut feeling that this approach is very close to o/u and that the secret is just a thought away in the design of the balance controller. What do you think? Butch >> Butch, My guess would be that any energy recovered would simply reduce the amount of the unavoidable losses in this system, not push it into o/u. The only way I can see that would not be true is that if this configuration is in some way not completely described by conventional EM theory. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 11:36:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04429; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:36:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:36:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:36:23 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: New rule #2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cFKex.0.651.xu1dq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The latest flamewar makes me realize that rule #2 STILL doesn't say exactly what I want it to say. I didn't define "Flamewar," and the rule is a bit too long to be entirely clear. A new version is below. Comments? 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages. If your message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do not send it to freenrg-L. Instead, use private email to send it directly to your target. VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION. See "Flamewars" below for details. ******************************************************************** FLAMEWARS Email psychology has an interesting effect: it breeds long outbursts of angry messages between two or more parties. To prevent these "flamewars", I must prohibit all impolite messages. This has some consequences. For example, if someone attacks you or insults you, you must abandon any hope of defending yourself in front of the group. Or, if someone blatantly violates the forum rules, you may NOT use the list to angrily point out their transgressions. "Politeness" and "insult" of course are in the eye of the beholder. I ask that people try not to take insult. But more importantly, I DEMAND that all users craft their messages so that the RECIPIENT cannot take insult. Your complaint should be totally polite, emotionless, and non-accusatory. Often this is impossible to do. The solution is very, very simple: SEND THE MESSAGE DIRECTLY TO THE RECIPIENT, NOT TO FREENRG-L. When a flamewar breaks out, people usually blame a particular person for causing it, and they feel justified in responding. However, sending your angry response to freenrg-L is PROHIBITED. If you catch yourself thinking "well, he/she started, I was just defending myself," then, since you feel you have the right to violate rule #1 of this forum, you should not be here. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 13:40:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21651; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:40:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:40:35 -0800 X-Sender: bfox@istar.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun Fox Subject: Re: Yo, Umraathmaall, Message-Id: Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:41:38 -0500 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q2xCZ3.0.BI5.Hj3dq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Bob; Any new developments on the scalar detection fronts; Byrun. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 15:20:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07634; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:20:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:20:14 -0800 From: MFergerson Message-ID: <780fb0e4.349c527c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:19:21 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Photon massless? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"y3NLX3.0.5t1.jA5dq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Frank (Earl, I presume) wrote: >Hi Bill > Do photons have to travel at the speed of light or can we make an >argument that just like marbles in a tube they transfer the energy >instantly; Marbles aren't instantaneous; they transfer energy no faster than the speed of sound in the glass composing the individual marbles. IMNSHO, photons travel at the fastest available speed in a given medium, because they are the least- constrained mode of energy transfer. > My premis is that photons are actually "ether" made >detectable while transferring energy. That makes sense, but how to prove? If we assume the vacuum is simply the ground-level state of the ether, and any observable fields or particles are excited states, you have basis of the Observer problem in QM; any observation we can make disturbs the system, and give false numbers. OTOH, if the zero- point-energy theorists are right, the observable "ground" state is actually a set of closely-related excited states, and the true (unobserved) "ground state" is kinda like "frozen" ether- an ether which cannot transfer or manifest any energetic effects without an input. The observed "pseudoground- state" ether, being full of zero-point energy, can do pair-production without violating conservation laws because the energy equivalent of the particles already exists as the bound excitation energy of the ether. > I looked in my old physics book >and discovered that photons have to be considered massless in order to >account for their speed but if for the sake of argument you accept >"ether" as consisting of an undetectable medium permeating all matter >and space in the universe then the speed of the photon becomes >meaningless. > Frank Various "old physics books" give varying opinions on that subject...the least unreasonable (most practically useful) one I've run across is that the local value of C is dependent on the local values of the dielectric constant and the local magnetic permeability, period. The free-space values are fairly well-known, and give the textbook number we're all familiar with. Light in a material medium is affected the same way; the local dielectric constant (at a given wavelength, remember; usually determined experimentally, NOT theoretically predicted with any precision) gives an unambiguous value for C in that material. A similar situation applies in waveguides; no matter present for photons to be absorbed and re-emitted by, but the speed is affected anyway. Transmission line theory in general attributes the velocity factor of a given line type (cable, waveguide, whatever) to the dielectric separating the conductors, and not to the properties of the conductors. AFAIK, the question of photon mass as a subject of argument doesn't really come up until relativity butts in- the "resilience" of the medium itself is what determines C. Also, a slightly drunk (in vino veritas?) G. Crabtree notes: >the casimir effect suposedly increases the speed of light. Investigators of the Casimir effect are (apparently not very willingly) asserting this very point about the conditions between a pair of closely- spaced conducting plates; the local value of C is GREATER than the free-space value. Speculation: The plates possibly remove some of the constraints a photon would see in "free" space, so maybe the plates bound a region of "supercooled" ether, so to speak; ether that isn't quite "frozen", or at it's true ground state, but not quite at the energetic free-space level, either. This would explain why the Casimir effect exists; the "supercooled" ether tries to extract energy from wherever it can, to get to its preferred pseudoground state, that of the so-called vacuum. Why it would prefer a state with energy to one without it is anyone's guess, "frozen" ether may be more stable energetically, but perhaps less stable entropically. So now we have three kinds of vacuum- 1. The true ground state of "frozen ether" which cannot support any energy transfer, 2. The pseudoground state of the "free vacuum" which has monstrous amounts of energy hidden within, and has the textbook value of C, 3. The vacuum present within matter, whose energy is mostly tied up manifesting the electric and magnetic fields of the matter, giving a value of C smaller yet. The Casimir effect would be an intermediate state between types 1 and 2; a sort of "polarized vacuum". Possibly, more detailed investigation of the Casimir effect will provide the unambiguous evidence for the ether some of us (me included) are waiting for. Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 15:25:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08641; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:24:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:24:59 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971220190311.009abfa8@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 19:03:25 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: re: Critique of Hooper-Monstein Experiment Cc: JNaudin509@aol.com, mrandall@earthlink.net, redesign@pavilion.co.uk, herman@antioch-college.edu, 101722.2050@compuserve.com, jlagarde@cyberaccess.fr, jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au, ddameron@earthlink.net, harti@harti.com, mindtech@nor.com.au, rvanspaa@eisa.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ctmKw.0.w62.AF5dq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hmmm..... Cyril Smith is quite correct in pointing out the interesting case of the dynamical cancellation of magnetic field vector B in the case of resonance in a transmission line. What is perhaps more at issue is whether this analogy holds true when the case is static, as when the magnets are stationary in the hooper-monstein experiment. His observation that a tremendous amount of field cancellation in matter is well taken; but is this not of a static nature? So @A/@t = 0 and hence no "motional" field. Because of this fact it is hypothesized that some fixed value of A exists at any point in space, the "background temperature" as it were. This being due to the the cancelled magnetic fields of the moving charged particles composing matter, along with whatever fields are ambient in the environment. Detectable only, as I currently understand, by electron interferometry, and then only by phase shift. I don't think one can use this type of experiment to determine the absolute value of A for some given piece of space. Does such an experiment exist? I think it is also important to not get hung up on Monsteins cancelling experiment, it is not such a trick to arrange matters so that a real cancellation of B occurs about the full loop. The effect will remain, and it has explanation in the classical electrodynamics as I have pointed out earlier. I'll see about posting some sort of electronic version of the Belwey reference I have regarding this, check the freeng-l for my capsule summary of this. Please understand that I do not feel this classical explanation rules out a new understanding, on the contrary I feel that the new theory here should agree if it is to be correct. Monstein correctly points out that the time rate of change of the vector potential A gives rise to an electric field, this relation is quite in line with the current understanding of electrodynamics. Why is this @A/@t field related to gravity? Thanks to demon #1888 (aka Jerry Decker) for pointing out http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9357/hooper01.html which I'm reviewing now. I'll start by mentioning the fact that any such relation between the motional electric field and gravity would first have to come to terms with the fact that mass only comes in one polarity. I seem to remember hearing about recent experiments with antimatter designed to answer this question. Someone pipe up if you can point out ref's to these experiments. And if you feel like "having your head pop" move back up the URL, the poster of the Hooper ref has been reading too many tabloid magazines. Better yet, just be happy he did us a favor and posted this valuable bit, and move on... KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 16:01:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29374; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:01:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:01:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971220193859.0029c018@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 19:39:04 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: New rule #2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MAyhw3.0.iA7.Mn5dq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ah-hem. As the putative "demon #1" of the flamewar at issue, I have a comment (question). What is the proper etiquette for addressing the problem of spamming of the listserv. The issue subtly rose to the surface a few months back when Greg Watson began selling his SMOT kits; at the time I thought this was reasonable as he seemed to be showing good faith by publishing information. Now I'm not so sure. Recently it was jammed in our faces in a not so subtle manner. Emailing the source does not seem an effective remedy for this. I loathe the flamewars as much as anyone; the only possible value to such a thing is it provides us with a "naked lunch" of sorts, ala William S Burroughs. Everyone can see what is at the end of their forks... that and the latin, Caveat Emptor. KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 17:49:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26995; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 17:49:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 17:49:31 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Photon massless? Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 01:49:13 GMT Message-ID: <349d755d.4221425@mail.zip.com.au> References: <780fb0e4.349c527c@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <780fb0e4.349c527c@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA26939 Resent-Message-ID: <"bpgw52.0.hb6.fM7dq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:19:21 EST, MFergerson wrote: _> Frank (Earl, I presume) wrote: _>>Hi Bill _> Various "old physics books" give varying opinions on that subject...the _>least unreasonable (most practically useful) one I've run across is that the _>local value of C is dependent on the local values of the dielectric constant _>and the local magnetic permeability, period. The free-space values are fairly _>well-known, and give the textbook number we're all familiar with. _> Light in a material medium is affected the same way; the local dielectric _>constant (at a given wavelength, remember; usually determined experimentally, _>NOT theoretically predicted with any precision) gives an unambiguous value for _>C in that material. A similar situation applies in waveguides; no matter _>present for photons to be absorbed and re-emitted by, but the speed is _>affected anyway. Transmission line theory in general attributes the velocity _>factor of a given line type (cable, waveguide, whatever) to the dielectric _>separating the conductors, and not to the properties of the conductors. _> Also, a slightly drunk (in vino veritas?) G. Crabtree notes: _>>the casimir effect suposedly increases the speed of light. _> Investigators of the Casimir effect are (apparently not very willingly) _>asserting this very point about the conditions between a pair of closely- _>spaced conducting plates; the local value of C is GREATER than the free-space _>value. _> Speculation: The plates possibly remove some of the constraints a photon _>would see in "free" space, so maybe the plates bound a region of "supercooled" _>ether, so to speak; ether that isn't quite "frozen", or at it's true ground _>state, but not quite at the energetic free-space level, either. This would _>explain why the Casimir effect exists; the "supercooled" ether tries to _>extract energy from wherever it can, to get to its preferred pseudoground _>state, that of the so-called vacuum. Why it would prefer a state with energy _>to one without it is anyone's guess, "frozen" ether may be more stable _>energetically, but perhaps less stable entropically. _> So now we have three kinds of vacuum- _>1. The true ground state of "frozen ether" which cannot support any energy _>transfer, _>2. The pseudoground state of the "free vacuum" which has monstrous amounts of _>energy hidden within, and has the textbook value of C, _>3. The vacuum present within matter, whose energy is mostly tied up _>manifesting the electric and magnetic fields of the matter, giving a value of _>C smaller yet. _> The Casimir effect would be an intermediate state between types 1 and 2; a _>sort of "polarized vacuum". _> Possibly, more detailed investigation of the Casimir effect will provide the _>unambiguous evidence for the ether some of us (me included) are waiting for. _> Mark Might it not then follow that if one has two superflat and very parallel conductive plates (as required for demonstration of the Casimir effect) and slowly decreases the distance between them whilst measuring the capacitance, one should be able to observe a relationship between plate spacing and capacitance for spacings greater than that required for the Casimir effect to manifest. And that a discontinuity/nonlinearity should be observable in this relationship as the plate spacing approaches Casimir spacings? Has anyone heard of this experiment being performed? OK, electrolytic capacitors (incl. tantalum's) have a very thin electrolytically formed dielectric. Is it possible/likely that the thickness of these dielectric films approach or are less than Casimir spacings? Maybe this relates to Bill Fogal's CBT device? Cheers, all Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 18:27:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15181; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:27:06 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:27:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349C99AD.4764@cmet.net> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:23:09 -0500 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT-bw (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: THE REAL WAY TO NEW ENERGY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cOR2T3.0.4j3.uv7dq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In order to find new energy sources we have to follow a few rules: - Execute new experiments with all kind of processes and observe critically the results. - Do not believe truly in mathematical/physical formulas, because they describe behaving of processes in a given environment. The formulas in physics are true in the known environment, but may be different in other circumstances, and that is the field of the truly experimentor ! Each formula has its VALIDITY RANGE, and this is mostly forgotten ! For instance the formula e = (m/2) v*v holds true only in speed ranges much lower than c. And the same applies to Ohm's law, where the formulas changes abruptly at extremly low temperatures. - Mathematic modeling does not lead to new concepts, because the formulas may be extended to ranges where they do no longer apply... Therefore I think that magnetic phenomenas should be evaluated by experiments and NOT by computer simulation. KEEPING THIS IN MIND WE MAY FIND THE ENERGY SOURCE WE ALL ARE LOOKING FOR ! =========================================================================== FELIX MEYER From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 21:52:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06379; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 21:51:51 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 21:51:51 -0800 (PST) To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 21:38:16 -0800 Subject: SMOT apology Message-ID: <19971220.214052.11830.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,7-8,12-13,16,21-28 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"yHs0q1.0.OZ1.ovAdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Greetings Greg Watson, I have been considering the events of recent weeks and I think some of the people on the VORTEX-L and FREENRG-L lists may owe you an apology. I include myself in that list, since my last email to you was quite upset as a result of your announcement of the environmental group taking over your company and possibly trying to prevent you from sending out the SMOT rollaround kits. Greg, I literally spent hundreds of hours (ask my wife) last summer trying to get a roll around. I know what you must have gone through to make a reproducible SMOT kit. If you do manage to deliver rollaround SMOT kits it will be a great achievment indeed. Of all the many free energy researchers I have observed, and communicated with, you have been the most open with your ideas, and have caught much flack as a result. I hope you can get through this ordeal with not too many bad feelings. If you can deliver working rollaround SMOT kits, it may be the spark that starts a fire of revolution where ferromagnetism is one of several avenues to tapping the great reserve of fluctuation energy that is all around us. A fire powered by the SEA OF ENERGY ! Hope to hear from you soon. May God bless you and your family this holiday season and this next year. Tim Vaughan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 22:07:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02050; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:07:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:07:31 -0800 To: revtec@ptd.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 21:57:45 -0800 Subject: Re: "Bifilar Waveguide" and PAGD Message-ID: <19971220.215800.11830.2.tv@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19971220160734.006c4f18@postoffice.ptd.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,5-6,8-9,11-53 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"NT8rZ.0.fV.W8Bdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Did you say PAGD apparatus, as in Pulsed Abnormal Glow discharge of Paulo and Alexandra Correa ? Please tell us more ? Any results. According to Paulo no one has succeeded in replicating his work even though guy has been trying in a way that he thinks is off course and wil not succeed. Is that you ? Paulo claims that he has disclosed all in his patents and it could be replicated by someone "skilled in the art". Because of its similarity to T.H. Moray, Leon Dragone, and Chernetskii, I am very interested in the work of the Correa's. By the way, the Correa web site (The Edge of Space) is at: http://www.globalserve.net/~lambdac/ Best Holiday Wishes, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:07:34 -0500 jeff fink writes: >Bob Flower and I are building a "Bifilar Waveguide" -- ie, a bifilar >coil with distributed capacitance -- as follows: two 200 ft rolls >of aluminum foil, separated by two rolls of Glad Wrap, all wound >around a hollow core of PVC pipe. > >In other words, the Al foil acts as the plates of the capacitance, >and also as the conductor of the inductance. Since both L and C are >distributed, we have a waveguide of sorts. > >We want to see what this does to square waveforms from a signal >generator, and then subject it to high energy pulses generated from >our PAGD apparatus. > >1. Has anyone built a coil like this before -- ie a bifilar coil with >distributed capacitance? > >2. Suggestions for good electrical bonding of the foil ends? > >3. Will a 600 volt potential arc through the Glad Wrap? Any >suggestions for alternate dielectric materials? Clear polyethylene >film would be good, but where can we get same on a roll 12 inches >wide x several hundred feet long? > >Comments? Complaints? > >Thanks, and Happy Holidays > >Jeff and Bob > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 22:24:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11177; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:24:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:24:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:23:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712210623.WAA01342@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: LaFonte Generator Home Page Resent-Message-ID: <"oUs-33.0.Yk2.FOBdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch, At 01:10 PM 12/20/97 EST, you wrote: > Just drawings at this time, putting text in today. >http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/generator1.html >Thanks, This will really help in looking at your designs, text together. Have you started to build a test model? Do you have more energy theories of how the generator can power the balance unit O/U, as Ken Easy mentioned? For example, can the magnets extract energy like the Dragone paper Tim Vaughan posted? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 22:41:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11342; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:41:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:41:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New rule #2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971220193859.0029c018@cnct.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wFXaj.0.7n2._dBdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 20 Dec 1997, Keith Nagel wrote: > What is the proper etiquette for addressing the problem of > spamming of the listserv. The issue subtly rose to the surface > a few months back when Greg Watson began selling his SMOT > kits; at the time I thought this was reasonable as he > seemed to be showing good faith by publishing information. > Now I'm not so sure. On-topic ads from regular users are OK. Greg Watson fits this description totally. If I recall, Greg up front offers a money-back guarantee. Also, from what I recall of the old discussions, Watson was asked by subscribers to offer some sort of kit, since parts from various sources weren't reliable. In recent times people have acted as if Watson's selling of kits is questionable behavior. Why? It is SPECIFICALLY allowed by the list rules. Are there others who believe that no one should be allowed to advertize here? The problem was not caused by Cagle's ad. It's just the same as most other flamewars I've seen: people with differing belief systems start angrily attacking each other, and both sides escalate. Go read the messages and watch how it developed over time. > Recently it was jammed in our > faces in a not so subtle manner. Emailing the source does > not seem an effective remedy for this. If everyone had sent their angry complaints to Mr. Cagel PRIVATELY, there's a good chance that there would have been no flamewar at all on freenrg-L. C. Cagel's ORIGINAL posting was on-topic, which forgives a lot. The anti-spam rule is really only directed at the junkmail idiots with bulk-mail software sending unending streams of chain letters and MLM offers. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 23:23:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17189; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:23:50 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:23:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 01:22:50 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: New rule #2 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eVPci2.0.UC4.5GCdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 20 Dec 1997, William Beaty wrote: > > C. Cagel's ORIGINAL posting was on-topic, which forgives a lot. The > anti-spam rule is really only directed at the junkmail idiots with > bulk-mail software sending unending streams of chain letters and MLM > offers. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > When I first saw the posting I had an idea it wasn't on-topic and posted something to this effect. For this I must apologize; when I looked at his website I saw it indeed WAS on-topic. I'm still digesting the data. Particularly the info on coronal mass ejections. This is a subject that has been near and dear to my heart for 25 years (so I know something about it!) I'll probably get something together to post on this over the holidays when I get a little break from my 14-hour work days. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 23:53:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24735; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:53:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:53:00 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971221033121.0097c280@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 03:31:23 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: New rule #2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KSqlE2.0._16.QhCdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill writes: >In recent times people have acted as if Watson's selling of >kits is questionable behavior. Why? I'd imagine people are beginning to wonder what happened to him. I've only talked to him thru the list, but you know he used to be pretty active... The questionable behavior being not the selling of the product but the state of uncertainty he has left his clients in. >Go read the >messages and watch how it developed over time. Please Bill, not the messages again, anything but that :-O KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 00:28:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25245; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 00:28:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 00:28:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349CEF06.2C7A@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 02:27:18 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New rule #2 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4VR3I2.0.MA6.-CDdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill! I am totally amazed... > The problem was not caused by Cagle's ad. It's just the same as most > other flamewars I've seen: people with differing belief systems start > angrily attacking each other, and both sides escalate. Go read the > messages and watch how it developed over time. When did the problem start? Agreed, not by Cagle's initial ad. It started when he responded to my questions with hostility, then conveyed the same attitude towards many others on the list (without fear of censure even to the point of stating 'Bill will probably kick me off the list.') Let's try this again. 1) Cagle posted his ad. 2) I posted a public email asking two questions. 3) Cagle posted a PUBLIC email attacking me personally, not my questions. 4) Nothing was done by the moderator to correct Cagle. 5) Therefore the pattern was established that insults and flames could be hurled by Cagle without fear of retribution. Further public emails from other people directed to Cagle resulted in more flames from him against their statements, again without retribution or public censure from the moderator. I understand you can't be on top of every post that is made, but it took a long time before anything was done. So, since it is the moderators' task to catch and correct such things, is it not the moderator here who failed to correct what led to a flamewar? In a related instance on my website, I screwed up by not seeking confirmation about Brown's alleged death and publicly apologized as well as took several other steps for damage control. It was embarrassing for me but did not kill me to do this. Just as you asked me to apologize to Cagle (for what, asking him two questions?), I think you should rightly apologize to the mailing list members about failing to catch and stop it, as Barney Fife says, 'nip it, nip it in the bud'.....I also think you might have unknowingly coloured your response to Cagle because of earlier communications not on the list that you spoke of in your email to me. To resolve this further, perhaps we could all help YOU in your task as moderator by first of all not responding to such behavior but if it continues as in Cagles attacks against so many others who said anything to him, then you could ask list members to notify you in future when things are getting out of hand. That is assumuing you don't check the list posts daily. We all do have outside lives to take care of. Happy Holidays! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 00:39:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA30602; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 00:39:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 00:39:46 -0800 Message-ID: <349CF1CD.7632@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 02:39:09 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Ultrasonics & Water Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I4FzE1.0.3U7.GNDdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! Recently received an email suggesting that the Dr. X disruption of water could be done a bit cheaper than with special purpose ultrasonic transducers. Though the power handling might be lower than that necessary to explode/disrupt/dissociate water, it would be worth trying. The email and comments with associated files are posted at; http://www.keelynet.com/index0.htm click on water dissociation If this controlled explosion could be contained in a pressure tank, then it could be vented off to drive an air motor. Though Keely's claim of 29,000 psi from 3 drops of water would be a bit hard to easily contain. Happy Holidays! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 07:22:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA31646; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 07:22:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 07:22:45 -0800 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:23:11 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712211523.QAA28568@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Bearden programme Resent-Message-ID: <"JnQP22.0.Lk7.3HJdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all New Bearden article at http://www.explorepub.com/articles/energetics.html "Energetics* Update and Summary: Energy Medicine. (in "Explore !", dec 97) It's partly on EM therapy, partly on O/U & "Lawandy-Lathokov effect" The Colonel thinks highly, these days, about recent research and patents by Nabil M. Lawandy (harmonic generation in non-linear optics), and V.S. Lathokov ("Generation of light by a scattering medium with negative resonance absorption") and the "fiber fuse" effect (soliton like thermal shock waves in optical fibres). Speaks also about Jim Patterson & CETI beads. Then, under the header "Other suprises" : --------------------------------------------------------------------- "In the future we will also acquaint the reader with a host of other overunity or potential overunity effects, devices, and principles. We will cover, e.g., (1) the Wiegand effect, (2) the Johnson multivalued potential gate effect, (3) the Radus effect, (4) multi-kilowatt, parametric oscillating, self-powering overunity generators produced in Russia in the late 1930s and extensively published in the pre-war scientific literature, both in Russia and in France, (5) Stanford's and General Electric's development of true negative resistors (self-powering) in the late 1930s, under our greatest electrical scientist, Gabriel Kron, (6) Westinghouse's loss or abandonment of two major overunity processes, even after hardware was produced, (7) multi-looped feedback, open systems that accomplish S-flow iteration and multi-collection, (8) the use of the "missing half" of the EM energy that is in our circuits as a highly damped but equal energy flow down in the atomic nuclei, (9) the Sweet vacuum triode amplifier, (10) magnetic flux path switching, (11) the unsuspected violent energy flows produced by the human body..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now how's that for stamina ? Shall we speak of the "Bearden-Stakhanov effect" ? :-) Cheers to all --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 07:37:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21250; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 07:37:55 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 07:37:55 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 10:34:42 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: What metal will stay magnetized longest?Where does energy come from? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"4CCMz.0.sB5.GVJdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Does anyone know what material will stay magnetized the longest, and also do most metals that will magnetize, become magnetic at the same rate. One last question, when you magnetize a piece of metal with a permanent magnet, does the energy of the magnet become less when you remove it from the piece of metal. That is, if the metal stays magnetized after you remove it from the magnet. Where does the energy come from to magnetize the metal? Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 08:49:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28468; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 08:49:38 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 08:49:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349D6468.3B88@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 10:48:08 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: HP O/U Circuit? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DNZ5l1.0.iy6.XYKdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! Has anyone heard anything about a circuit developed at HP that was used in a piece of their equipment...this circuit would spontaneously produce more power than was being fed into it and had to be modified to quench this action. Details as much as I have been told about it are at; http://www.keelynet.com/ click on Strange Info If you know anything about this, I'd be most interested in trying to track it down...thanks! Happy Holidays! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 10:04:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09317; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 10:04:37 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 10:04:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712211758.MAA06472@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Bearden programme Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:29:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y4Wao.0.TH2.oeLdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > (11) the unsuspected violent energy flows produced by the human body..." I wonder where he's going with that. Somewhere in my vast book collection, perhaps in Gaddis's "Mysterious Fires And Lights", there's a one-sentence reference to Andrija Puharich determining that in "unique circumstances" a single calcium ion can generate a field in excess of one million volts. Period. No explanation. Naturally, I'd love to know what the unique circumstances are. -- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 11:19:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA32514; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:19:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:19:36 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: <2e19e55a.349d6ae1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:15:43 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Temporary magnetization the secret to overunity? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"ClXGG1.0.xx7.7lMdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have just found a very interesting application for the property of metal that lets it maintain it's magnetization after the removal of the permanent magnet from it. It is the key I have been looking for. I will post to my web site as soon as possible, it replaces the balance system controller and does away with the need to switch on and off the balance system. This is why Mr. Werjefelt was having so much trouble with induction heating to the point of melting the stators. I coun't figure out why he didn't go to a ferrite type material with no magnetic memory. Now I know why! the memory aspect is how it's done! I need all the info anybody can give me on the ability of different ferromagnetic materials to stay temporary magnetic and if they magnetize at different rates or energy requirements. Getting close! Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 11:42:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19410; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:41:51 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:41:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712211940.TAA18698@mail.iol.ie> Reply-To: From: "gnlodge" To: "freenrg" Subject: Laminations Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:40:34 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qp9HP.0.Al4.z3Ndq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Off the typical subject of present but could someone tell me where to obtain some suitable material for laminating a solenoid core. That would have a saturation of greater than about 1.4T Thanks, Bart From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 12:39:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11573; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:38:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:38:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:38:48 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New rule #2 (long) In-Reply-To: <349CEF06.2C7A@keelynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZggYo.0.hq2.WvNdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Jerry wrote: > Hi Bill! > > I am totally amazed... Hi Jerry! Amazed by my actions? By rereading the flames? By the new rule no. 1? It's not clear to me. Here's my version (the additions) below: > > Let's try this again. > > 1) Cagle posted his ad. > 2) I posted a public email asking two questions. No, three questions. Mr. Cagle responded to the third, taking it as an insulting innuendo which required massive retaliation: "Not to be deprecating, but are you uncertain of the SCYBOLT claims or do you think this will serve to draw attention from those without any technical background who will not question anything which is claimed to be god-inspired?" I see that a sincere person would take this as initiation of hostility. > 3) Cagle posted a PUBLIC email attacking me personally, not my > questions. True! He believed that you had attacked him personally, insinuating that he was merely trying to con people, so he responded. He used outright namecalling, specifically banned in Rule #2. If he wanted to do this, he should have sent the message directly to you privately. > 4) Nothing was done by the moderator to correct Cagle. I first cautioned Mr. Nagel for his "get lost, you're not wanted here" message, then cautioned Mr. Cagle for his "hypocrite, liar" messages. Let me make one thing clear: I try hard to send only PRIVATE warnings to those who breach rules. One reason is that intentional use of public embarassment is a low tactic, worthy of flamers but sort of hypocritical if used by the moderator. Another bigger reason is that people often take my warnings as incorrect, unfair, and insulting accusations, and they respond with hostility. If my warning and its response were both sent to the list, I'm sure that numerous people would jump in and choose up sides, then we'd be off and running in the new "what defines insult" controversy. This happened once here, and once on taoshum-L, so I changed my tactics to private warnings. Everyone see? Public chastizement usually IS ITSELF A FLAMEWAR. However, I see how Jerry got the impression that Cagle was not receiving any warnings. My maintaining of warning privacy caused problems. > 5) Therefore the pattern was established that insults and flames could > be hurled by Cagle without fear of retribution. I do not recognize the existence of patterns, patterns which give justification for intentionally violating specific, simple rules of the forum. So, Cagle used namecalling and insults? Suddenly it becomes OK for everyone to violate the no-flamewars rule? Is the no-flamewars rule to be obeyed only when Bill B. is here ready to slap people down, yet if it looks like he's away, then the rule become meaningless? More importantly, if we all insist that Mr. Cagle follows the rules, then WE had all damned well better begin following them absolutely to the letter ourselves, or we lose any justification to complain. If we want to stop off-topic messages, but we hurl insults to do it, then it becomes clear to everyone that the rules are meaningless, and off-topic messages are just as unstoppable as the angry namecalling and insults launched by those who object to the off-topic messages. > Further public emails from other people directed to Cagle resulted in > more flames from him against their statements, again without retribution > or public censure from the moderator. As I said above, I intentionally avoid practicing public retribution or public censure. Also, I am intentionally VIOLATING all my personal rules in this message, and sending it to the list as a demonstration. Let's see if it causes hurt feelings on the part of subscribers, leading to defensive responses, generating yet another mini-flamewar. Shouldn't this message have been sent privately? Anyone want to lash into me, and show everyone that Mr. Cagle's "hypocrite" messages were exactly on target? How about some hypocritical, rule-breaking namecalling on my part: all of you who were impolite to Mr. Cagle are self-important flamers who are too immature to be allowed to use the internet. Your behavior was absolutely disgusting, and all of you should be deeply ashamed of yourselves. I actually don't really believe that at all. I myself did exactly the same thing when first on internet, until I realized that the disgusting behavior of all the other subscribers was EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DOING AS WELL. I was originally blinded by anger, and saw everyone else as indulging in disgusting hostile behavior, while simultaneously I believed that my own behavior was totally justified. Therefor, I was being disgustingly intolerant, self-righteous, and hypocritical. I knew I was right, everyone else was wrong, and I was making the great mistake of refusing to examine my own behavior. This killed most of my feelings of disgust regarding flaming. (Obviously not all!) I see flaming as an inherent part of human nature, and I am certainly not immune. However, on the international scale it is the major cause of wars. I'm ashamed by my old flaming behavior; I was doing a miniature version of the same thing that causes mass killing. More pragmatically, flaming wastes huge amounts of time, and generates huge amounts of off-topic messages. People who otherwise might be friends are turned into bitter enemies. I suspect that most people here won't believe it, but Mr. Cagle could have become a friend and fellow researcher on freenrg-L. > I understand you can't be on top of every post that is made, but it took > a long time before anything was done. > > So, since it is the moderators' task to catch and correct such things, is > it not the moderator here who failed to correct what led to a flamewar? I cautioned Mr. Cagle, but he was really pissed off by all the attacks, and he didn't seem to even hear what I was saying. He seemed to see my warnings as yet another attack. It's obvious to me that he saw himself as innocent, but also apparantly believed that he had the right to defend himself in public, regardless of any forum rules. He defends himself just as many others did, by ignoring his own breaking of rules, while angrily pointing out the disgusting behavior of his attackers. I was ready to unsubscribe him, but then several other subscribers used insults and namecalling which was worse than even Cagle was using. This complicated matters. Hence, I threatened to unsubscribe EVERYONE. Old rule 2 specifically mentions this. Do not lower yourself to the same level as a flamer, or you ARE a flamer, and YOU YOURSELF risk unsubscription (besides your losing any justification for complaining about flaming behavior in others!) It also makes it tough for the moderator: suddenly I had to decide whether or not to eject several regular users, rather than just one rule-breaker. Now, does everyone here want to lay claim to the following? huckster hypocrite liar nutcase, self-appointed proselyte, rabid christian basket case idiot, candle gazer hypocrite a con-man of the first water, a satan-inspired asshole ...and that's just the namecalling, not the more complicated insults. People, go read the SCYBOLT message thread, see what it looks like now that you're all not in the heat of the moment. Again, I do not insist that everyone keep this stuff bottled up. Go ahead, point out peoples' disgusting behavior in no uncertain terms. Expect that they will get angry, ignore you, and do the same thing right back. I only demand that people SEND IT DIRECTLY, PRIVATELY to their targets. > In a related instance on my website, I screwed up by not seeking > confirmation about Brown's alleged death and publicly apologized as well > as took several other steps for damage control. It was embarrassing for > me but did not kill me to do this. > > Just as you asked me to apologize to Cagle (for what, asking him two > questions?) No, please reread my message. You said this: > > you are after money, using religion as a means to > > get it. That is the ONLY reason you even got on here That is an insult. Is it true? It doesn't matter, it's still an insult. There's no reason to prevent christians from soliciting research funds from other christians. If Mr. Cagle is a con artist, then calmly present your evidence in a way that everyone sees the truth. Anything else is simple namecalling. My intention is not to pick on you alone. I think Mr. Cagle did lots that requires apology, his was a shameful display. But he is not alone! >, I think you should rightly apologize to the mailing list > members about failing to catch and stop it, as Barney Fife says, 'nip it, > nip it in the bud'.....I also think you might have unknowingly > coloured your response to Cagle because of earlier communications not on > the list that you spoke of in your email to me. My response to Mr. Cagle was knowingly colored: from the very outset I intentionally tried hard not to choose sides, to instead stay impartial. This caused Cagle to perceive me as siding with the regular users, while you (I think) perceive me as siding with Cagle. I look through Mr. Cagle's eyes to see what the problem is, then I look through yours. At least I try to do this. As a result, I come to the conclusion that you both are right within the bounds of your viewpoints, and it was right that I didn't choose sides. As for stopping flamewars, who should I be more harsh on, a new user who isn't familiar with the forum, or the old ones who very well know the rules, but blatantly break them anyway? I choose instead strive for impartiality, and focus on ALL rule-breakers regardless of who they are. I apologize for being a disgusting flamer myself, for being just as prideful, self-righteous, pompous, and hypocritical as the worst offender. I try not to be, but trying doesn't mean succeeding. The only thing I HAVE learned to do is... (guess) ...send my angry messages directly to individuals, so as to avoid flamewars on the public list. I feel like a child abuser who has trained himself to punch walls instead of kids. Compared to controlling one's temper, it's easy to do and makes all the difference in the world. Also, I apologize for not informing EVERYONE that I was sending private warnings. I see now that it looked like no one was going to stop the useless discussion, and this itself caused more and more people to jump in and try to stop it. > To resolve this further, perhaps we could all help YOU in your task as > moderator by first of all not responding to such behavior This is impossible, because we humans WILL defend ourselves against unfair, reprehensible, disgusting attacks made against us in front of others. A certain percentage of us have uncontrollable tempers, and nothing short of years of therapy will ever change that. The solution is to first, follow that rule. EVERYONE SEND YOUR ANGRY RESPONSES DIRECTLY TO THE TARGET, not to freenrg-L. If people don't like this rule, then we should discuss it. Myself, I'm leaning towards clarifying things by getting rid of all the rules except the one above. Maybe that would draw everyone's attention to it. Does everyone get the impression that I'm trying to train you all like dogs? Maybe! It is apparent to me that people here are blocking out my words. That's why I keep repeating them. The way to stop the SCYBOLT flamewar was for everyone to send messages privatly, or to use "silent treatment" on offenders, or to warn the moderator. The guaranteed way to AMPLIFY the flamewar was to send angry messages to freenrg-L > but if it > continues as in Cagles attacks against so many others who said anything > to him, then you could ask list members to notify you in future when > things are getting out of hand. That is assumuing you don't check the > list posts daily. We all do have outside lives to take care of. You're right on target, in recent months I haven't checked list postings daily. Currently I'm off work until 12/29, so I FINALLY have some time. > Happy Holidays! Best wishes to everyone! Comments requested! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 12:49:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28482; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:49:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:49:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:48:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712212048.MAA17594@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: What metal will stay magnetized longest?Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"Xl8fc3.0.wy6.D3Odq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch, Have you tried books like "Electronics Engineer's Handbook", by Fink, in most libraries. It has pages on soft and hard magnetic materials, their retentivity (magnetization remaining) and coercivity (magnetic force needed to remove this magnetization). At 10:34 AM 12/21/97 EST, you wrote: >Does anyone know what material will stay magnetized the longest, and also do >most metals that will magnetize, become magnetic at the same rate. One last >question, when you magnetize a piece of metal with a permanent magnet, does >the energy of the magnet become less when you remove it from the piece of >metal. That is, if the metal stays magnetized after you remove it from the >magnet. Where does the energy come from to magnetize the metal? Yes, good question! >Thanks, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 14:09:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28086; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:09:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:09:07 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: <8a899cfc.349d9285@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:04:51 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re to re: Where does energy come from? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"n1Xh5.0.ks6.2EPdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave, Thanks for the lead, but on the last question, do you know where the energy comes from to magnetize? Does the permanent magnet lose some energy, if so does that mean that if I we to magnetize 1000 pieces of steel with a permanent magnet that it would just keep getting weaker? Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 15:28:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09475; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:27:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:27:57 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:28:22 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: What metal will stay magnetized longest?Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"YDjZm1.0.xJ2.yNQdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Butch - > I have just found a very interesting > application for the property of metal that lets > it maintain it's magnetization after the > removal of the permanent magnet from it. It > is the key I have been looking for. This is what we were kicking around in some SMOT threads. If you can partially magnetize some metal when it's coming close to the poles of magnets, then it should be a little easier to pull it away than it was to restrain it going in (assuming a balancing spring, weight, or magnetic force here). But then the metal's a bit more magnetized, and the next cycle has less room to work with, until the metal's pretty well magnetized as much as it's going to be from those magnets and the process stops. It seems that the key is for the newly magnetized ferrous material to *shed* that magnetism quickly between cycles, so each cycle can start afresh. This might happen due to the magnetocaloric effect. > One last question, when you magnetize a piece > of metal with a permanent magnet, does the > energy of the magnet become less when you > remove it from the piece of metal. That is, if > the metal stays magnetized after you remove > it from the magnet. Where does the energy > come from to magnetize the metal? It's assumed generally that magnetization is a *lower* state of energy. So energy doesn't come into something that gets magnetized, it goes out. So in the above situation, demagnetizing the ferrous element is the step that adds energy. The thermodynamic connection is that as something is magnetized, it cools. As it demagnetizes, it heats up a little. That's the magnetocaloric effect. Used one way by putting power in, it can be a refrigerator. Used in the reverse way, it could generate power from heat. It's tempting to see this as a possible thermodynamic demon to get heat to flow the wrong way and create free energy. But is it? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 15:39:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16962; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:39:37 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:39:37 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Watson's selling of kits is questionable behavior Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:39:13 +0100 Message-Id: <19971222003913.3b29367f.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"gK2Td.0.x84.tYQdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:31 21.12.1997 -0500, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Bill writes: > >>In recent times people have acted as if Watson's selling of >>kits is questionable behavior. Why? > >I'd imagine people are beginning to wonder what happened to him. >I've only talked to him thru the list, but you know he >used to be pretty active... The questionable behavior being >not the selling of the product but the state of uncertainty >he has left his clients in. > >>Go read the >>messages and watch how it developed over time. > >Please Bill, not the messages again, anything but that :-O > >KPN > Stay tuned for an Xmas announcement from Greg... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 16:19:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20956; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:18:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:18:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971221195555.009a3b00@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:56:00 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: What metal will stay magnetized longest?Where does energy come from? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Exx7H3.0.J75.97Rdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 01:28 PM 12/21/97 -1000, you wrote: > > > One last question, when you magnetize a piece > > of metal with a permanent magnet, does the > > energy of the magnet become less when you > > remove it from the piece of metal. That is, if > > the metal stays magnetized after you remove > > it from the magnet. Where does the energy > > come from to magnetize the metal? > >It's assumed generally that magnetization is a *lower* state of energy. So >energy doesn't come into something that gets magnetized, it goes out. So in >the above situation, demagnetizing the ferrous element is the step that >adds energy. The thermodynamic connection is that as something is >magnetized, it cools. As it demagnetizes, it heats up a little. That's the >magnetocaloric effect. Used one way by putting power in, it can be a >refrigerator. Used in the reverse way, it could generate power from heat. >It's tempting to see this as a possible thermodynamic demon to get heat to >flow the wrong way and create free energy. But is it? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > If I take a permenant magnet and approach a piece of metal, the electron spins organize and the material becomes magnetically polarized. Now I pull the magnet away, and the material stays polarized. If you look at this B/H curve you will see the resulting shape has area, that is to say you did work to put the material in this state. The magnetocaloric effect is I believe a second order effect with respect to this. Interestingly enough Tesla patented a heat engine which worked on this principle, he studied it in the course of understanding how to built efficient transformers. That is to say, he made a study of loss mechanisms due to the cycling of flux in iron, and hit on this. I don't know why people make up stories about the man, the truth is plenty enough for me. KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 17:31:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01877; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:31:02 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:31:02 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:29:50 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: TT Brown/Learning Channel notes Resent-Message-ID: <"Ahp8J1.0.6T.JBSdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com [Naturally, my VCR is broken, but I took notes... -- r] The Learning Channel 12/21/97 1PM EST Future Fantastic The Incredible Shrinking Planet Host: Gillian Anderson Teaser: close up of large optical bench with lasers, mirrors, beam-splitters, etc, it's the 'Quantum Teleportation' experiment... 1st Segment: John Clute (Ency. of Science Fiction) talking about history of transportation and science fiction versus science fact...more historical footage, GM's future vision (from the 50's) ... early visions of flying automobiles... (Clute will reappear throughout) Paul Moller (sp?), designer of the SkyCar...early designs for flying cars using conventional ducted fans...50's TV footage inside Ford Design Center, showing flying cars...early flying one-man platform...US Army designed flying saucer...Dennis Bushnell, NASA...Russion 'Jumbo' Saucer... Solar powered Ion-powered craft, Brian Motts...Bob Forward (who appears throughout) comments...old footage of Seversky's Ionicraft... 2nd Segment: Blake Mirabeau (sp?) lightcraft...inspired by old Wonder Stories cover ... use microwave beams to create plasma channels ... vehicles travel 25X sound speed ... passengers use maglev belts to board vehicles ... John Mankins (NASA) says devices will be tested at White Sands ... passengers will undergo 200G's, must travel in immersion pods, breath oxygenated-fluid... Anti-Gravity: old footage 'From the Earth to the Moon', flying carpets, Bob Forward again, pointing out that flight has always been about anti- gravity, John Anderson (NASA advanced concepts), Franklin Mead (USAF) who has recreated T.T.Brown experiments, old footage of Brown with various levitating devices, in white lab coat, drinking champagne from beaker ... Mead describes large pendulum capacitors, which accelerate when charged with 30-40KV ... comments from Frank Close (Cambridge Univ) and Bob Forward about unifying EM and G... 3rd Segment: Michio Kaku talks about time travel, teleportation and wormholes...old footage from 'The Time Machine' ... Kaku explains how to build a wormhole...two plates charged to high potential, Casimir effect ... make two devices, put one on a spaceship traveling near c, jump in between the plates and poof, you're on the spaceship... Virtual Reality: footage from 'Lawnmower Man' ... Jaron Lanier (inventor of VR) talks about 'shared dreaming', says most VR today is dreadful... John Walden (VR engr) describes RiverWorld. Neil Stevenson (cyberpunk sci-fi) author of 'Snowcrash' ... Richard Johnstone building VR goggles that use laser beams to project directly onto retina... 4th Segment: Teleportation ... Star Trek footage (naturally) ... Larry Niven talks about consequences, collapse of automobile industry, etc... Stanford Univ. 3D Fax machine ... old footage from 'The Fly' (original), then Anton Zilenger (Innsbruk) talking about the quatum teleportation experiment, which hadn't yet happened when this segment was filmed. He only said what would happen if it worked... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 17:52:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04564; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:51:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:51:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349DE345.6098@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:49:25 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Beaty CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New rule #2 (long) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_wP1Z.0.971.WUSdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill! Ok, Dr. Pavlov, this dog now salivates to the #2 bell....thanks for taking the time to elucidate about private emails that you had sent but which didn't seem to be taken seriously... I shall 'refrain' from being trolled into responding to scandalous attacks.....in future....it's all history now.... Christmas is just days away, time to get on with what counts (the purpose of this mailing list I believe), a flippin' working overunity machine that we can all USE....Happy Holidays! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 19:51:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14146; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:51:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:51:37 -0800 From: K easy Message-ID: <5301b3a9.349de043@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:36:33 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What metal will stay magnetized longest?Where does energy come from? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"PUgIn3.0.xS3.8FUdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 97-12-21 10:38:46 EST, you write: << Does anyone know what material will stay magnetized the longest, and also do most metals that will magnetize, become magnetic at the same rate. One last question, when you magnetize a piece of metal with a permanent magnet, does the energy of the magnet become less when you remove it from the piece of metal. That is, if the metal stays magnetized after you remove it from the magnet. Where does the energy come from to magnetize the metal? Thanks, Butch >> With a good permanent magnet, it definitely does NOT, in general, lose energy when you use it to magnetize a piece of metal. The energy to magnetize the metal comes from the forces (times distance) that you exert on the magnet and piece of metal in the process of magnetizing the metal. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 20:02:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20297; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:02:07 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:02:07 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: overunity.com update ! SMOT Wheel animation online ! Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 05:02:17 +0100 Message-Id: <19971222050217.3c1a1069.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id UAA20276 Resent-Message-ID: <"VI-U41.0.2z4.zOUdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.overunity.com/update.htm Hi, today I was at a friend´s place and helped me with his 3DSMAX animation program skills to design this animation of a SMOT wheel. It is something like a mixture of SMOT/RMOD/Bessler wheel and might work.. Check out the URL. Please let me know your views on it. Thanks ! Happy holidays ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 20:24:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23535; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:24:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:24:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:23:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712220423.UAA12011@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re to re: Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"Kj6493.0.bl5.gjUdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:04 PM 12/21/97 EST, you wrote: >Dave, >Thanks for the lead, but on the last question, do you know where the energy >comes from to magnetize? Does the permanent magnet lose some energy, if so >does that mean that if I we to magnetize 1000 pieces of steel with a permanent >magnet that it would just keep getting weaker? >Thanks, >Butch Hi Butch and all, I am beginning to think the energy comes from the mechanical force. Think of a DC motor with a permanent magnet field. I don't think the magnet strength decreases over time (unless the armature current reaches some fault current or the magnet is low quality). Then think of just a iron armature (no electromagnets) spinning near a permanent magnet. If the iron is perfectly "soft", no remanence, the attractive force is matched by the repulsive force needed to pull it away later in the rotation. No net energy is given to the armature, tha magnet doesn't lose its strength. One can picture this the same as magnetizing the same piece of steel many times. If the steel has some retentivity or remanence, it keeps some of its magnetism and thus is attracted stronger to the PM after than before. If it is magnetized by bringing it to the PM and removing it, then the force needed to remove it is stronger than the attractive force, i.e. the hystersis loop has a enclosed area, and net energy had to be provided in moving the steel to and away from the PM. This is where I think the energy comes from, not the PM, thus the PM doesn't become weaker. Is this what you have found in your experiments? One can also magnetize a piece of steel by a mechanical shock in a magnetic field. Since I just thought of this, any comments? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 21:11:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28667; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:11:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:11:34 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971222130825.0071005c@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:08:25 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: re: Critique of Hooper-Monstein Experiment Cc: Keith Nagel In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971220190311.009abfa8@cnct.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"g_wTl3.0.g_6.3QVdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keith Nagel wrote: >[snip] >I think it is also important to not get hung up on Monsteins >cancelling experiment, it is not such a trick to arrange matters >so that a real cancellation of B occurs about the full loop. Is this trick easily described in words? If so please do. >The effect will remain, and it has explanation in the classical >electrodynamics as I have pointed out earlier. Is this the "resonance in a transmission line" case that you pointed out earlier? Otherwise I don't recall you pointing out any classical electrodynamics earlier. >I'll see about >posting some sort of electronic version of the Belwey reference >I have regarding this, check the freeng-l for my capsule >summary of this. Please understand that I do not feel this >classical explanation rules out a new understanding, on the >contrary I feel that the new theory here should agree if >it is to be correct. I'm interested. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 22:25:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09261; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:25:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:25:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:15:48 +1100 Message-Id: <199712220715.SAA15314@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@mail.sa.ozland.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: A merry Christmas and happy new year from Geoff Egel and solaris Resent-Message-ID: <"_cdHO1.0.ZG2.1VWdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:52 PM 11/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, >I like to say a Merry Christmas and happy New year from Downunder or from the top of the World ,it all depends where you see where the top is. I like to thank all those that have helped me develop my website and hope it has been of interest and help to others during the past year. I would also like to thank those that have contribruted to this newsgroup with ideas views and discussions into this approaching free energy and overunity fields. Lets hope we can see a fully working machine that no one can doubt in the very near future. (98 Can't wait ) Looking forward to doing more in the new year 98 http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 22:36:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09282; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:36:32 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:36:32 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: ATG group vanished ?? Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 07:36:40 +0100 Message-Id: <19971222073640.3ca76a5a.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"mKZjW.0.wG2.kfWdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.compassnet.com/~isworld/bipeg.htm Hi, their WEB site has gone ! Does anybody know, if they have a new WEBsite ? A friend has done some experiments with their latest MCAT circuit and it seems to really generate OU pulses ! More info to come in the new year.. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 23:12:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12756; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:12:12 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:12:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:11:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712220711.XAA10103@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: ATG group vanished ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"Nujos2.0.D73.ABXdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan, At 07:36 AM 12/22/97 +0100, you wrote: >http://www.compassnet.com/~isworld/bipeg.htm > >Hi, >their WEB site has gone ! > >Does anybody know, if they have a new WEBsite ? Yes, this has happened before. They said it is due to their updating their site and would take a couple of days to get back on-line. >A friend has done some experiments with their latest MCAT >circuit and it seems to really generate OU pulses ! > >More info to come in the new year.. Looking forward to hearing more! Regards, Michael >Regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 04:52:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02776; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:51:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:51:34 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712220423.UAA12011@italy.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:00:57 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Re to re: Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"6WHwd3.0.tg.D9cdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave - > it keeps some of its magnetism and thus is > attracted stronger to the PM after than before. I hope I'm not being irritating by repeating this, but what we saw consistently in SMOT experiments was that a partially magnetized ball would *not* be as strongly attracted into the ramp as a fresh or unmagnetized ball. I got my best results from a ball that was heated to about 1000deg F then repolished before use. This effect was very clear, and many people saw it and remarked on it. I think it may have to do both with multiple poles in the ball and the fact that the ball rolls along presenting a random series of N and S faces to the magnets which tends to defeat the net attraction somewhat, but it does work out that way. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 04:52:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02749; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:51:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:51:35 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5301b3a9.349de043@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:48:28 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: What metal will stay magnetized longest?Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"aXkPV.0.Vg.B9cdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keasy wrote: > The energy to magnetize the metal comes from > the forces (times distance) that you exert on > the magnet and piece of metal in the process of > magnetizing the metal. What work do you do? Ferrous material just falls in effortlessly towards a magnet. A marble in a salad bowl. The energy needed to pull it away (go up to the rim on the other side of the bowl) should be equal to the energy given up falling in to the field. If you had a your ferrous material and magnet counterbalanced just right by springs or something, you should only need to overcome friction to put the magnet near and take it away again. You'd have a well tuned SMOT in effect. There is some question as to what effect the residual magnetism will have though. If I understand correctly, it is conventionally accepted that the magnetized state is the lower energy state. Whether or not the magnetocaloric effect is a secondary effect as Keith says, I don't know. Although it seems to take work to magnetize something, that may be due to other gross effects rather than just the actual energy required (if there really is any in the strict sense) to effect the ordering the domains. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 08:52:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11223; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:52:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:52:11 -0800 From: KURT_BENSON@NON-HP-Boise-om8.om.hp.com X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 09:51:53 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <780fb0e4.349c527c@aol.com> Subject: Re: Photon massless? TO: MFergerson@aol.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"G87xe.0.5l2.vgfdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Item Subject: cc:Mail Text I don't understand why some of you people are so addicted to the out of date concepts of phlogiston and the ether. laser bounce-back experiments from the moon have given us better than ever data on the speed of light and there is NO data to support the evidence of the ether. might as well dabble in alchemy. also to reiterate, the photon is NOT massless. the wavicle that is the photon is BENT by gravity and there fore MUST have mass to be thus effected. last and NOT least, don't throw out a theory without something to support it. where's the math to support an ether? also how does the expanding universe support the ether? is more ether produced to fill it in? does the ether-equivalent of barometric pressure get thinner as the universe expands? let's get really ridiculous and suggest that the reason the universe is expanding is the production of ether is causing it to blow up like a balloon. very tired kurt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 09:54:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29858; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:54:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:54:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:53:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712221753.JAA28603@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Bearden programme Resent-Message-ID: <"V0dPn1.0.NI7.7bgdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I am fowarding this response from Fred Epps: > >Could you post this response to freenrg-l? I feel a sort of proprietary >interest in the parametric generators, considering I spent a year studying >them. > >> >(4) multi-kilowatt, parametric oscillating, self-powering overunity >> >generators produced in Russia in the late 1930s and extensively >published in >> >the pre-war scientific literature, both in Russia and in France, > >Bearden has his facts thoroughly wrong. He has not read the information >about these machines, or he has chosen to see only what he wants to see. >They WERE multi-kilowatt and they WERE parametric oscillating. They were >NEVER >self-powered and they were NEVER overunity. The energy conversion >mechanisms are well understood, and the efficiency, as far as I could tell, >was between 40 and 60 percent. They are capable of higher. >There were no experiments in France, the Russian results were repeated in >French technical journals. >These were rotary machines where an electric motor drove a gapped copper >disc between two coils in such a way that the inductance varied at about >600 Hz. The varying inductance was in series with a capacitor and a test >load in a resonant circuit. >The Ferdnand Cap patent (number?) shows the operating principle very well >and is directly based on the Russian machines. >The reason for the overunity mythology about these machines is because of >their resonant condition. Unless there was a nonlinear resistance included >in the resonator, they would build energy until they fried. But all this >energy was derived from the motor. > >Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 09:53:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11789; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:53:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:53:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:53:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712221753.JAA28757@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: to re: Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"DeIUQ3.0.4u2.Xagdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Rick and all! At 12:00 AM 12/22/97 -1000, you wrote: >Dave - > > > it keeps some of its magnetism and thus is > > attracted stronger to the PM after than before. > >I hope I'm not being irritating by repeating this, but what we saw >consistently in SMOT experiments was that a partially magnetized ball would >*not* be as strongly attracted into the ramp as a fresh or unmagnetized >ball. I got my best results from a ball that was heated to about 1000deg F >then repolished before use. This effect was very clear, and many people saw >it and remarked on it. I think it may have to do both with multiple poles >in the ball and the fact that the ball rolls along presenting a random >series of N and S faces to the magnets which tends to defeat the net >attraction somewhat, but it does work out that way. > Your comments give me another reason to try a SMOT! The configuration seems much more complicated than just moving a steel bar toward a permanent magnet pole. Yes, like rolling down a bowl, but if the bar becomes magnetized, upon removing it, its acquired attractive magnetic field, in addition to the induced, would make it harder to remove. I quess the closest SMOT analogy would be, IF the ball became permanently magnetized upon rolling up the ramp, would it be harder to fall or roll away than otherwise? Assuming the ball's acquired field attracts to the end magnets, and it wasn't re-orientated, multiple poles, etc. to actually help repel it. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 09:54:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12093; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:54:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:54:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199712221752.PAA14311@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:26:17 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: ATG group vanished ?? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19971222073640.3ca76a5a.in@pop3.vossnet.de> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"2s2-b2.0.oy2.5bgdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > A friend has done some experiments with their latest MCAT > circuit and it seems to really generate OU pulses ! > > More info to come in the new year.. > > Regards, Stefan. > -- I did tests with the bipeg circuit and it works ok. But for me it is ONLY a very low power oscilator. It needs very few uA to run. I got mine working several minutes just conected to a charged 10000 uF capacitor. But no OU results. Regards, Marcelo. --- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 10:23:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21105; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:23:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:23:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199712221823.NAA27624@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: TT Brown/Learning Channel notes Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:51:13 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RdaOh1.0.b95.f0hdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > From: ralph muha > 3rd Segment: Michio Kaku talks about time travel, teleportation and > wormholes...old footage from 'The Time Machine' ... Kaku explains how to > build a wormhole...two plates charged to high potential, Casimir effect > ... make two devices, put one on a spaceship traveling near c, jump in > between the plates and poof, you're on the spaceship... I'm still trying to figure out how he gets a wormhole between two Casimir-effect regions. I wouldn't have thought someone of his status would be so vague about a hypothesis. Besides, a macroscopic Casimir region is pretty improbable, if not impossible, isn't it? -- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 12:24:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25894; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:23:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:23:56 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <780fb0e4.349c527c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:23:31 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Photon massless? Resent-Message-ID: <"N0g_72.0.UK6.Qnidq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Kurt - > laser bounce-back experiments from the > moon have given us better than ever data on > the speed of light and there is NO data to > support the evidence of the ether. Would you be willing to entertain the notion that the *presumption* that laser experiments would be able to detect aether flow could be wrong? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 13:26:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07794; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:26:22 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:26:22 -0800 (PST) From: K easy Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:22:53 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re to re: Where does energy come from? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"CSVcU2.0.fv1.xhjdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 97-12-22 07:54:33 EST, you write: << What work do you do? Ferrous material just falls in effortlessly towards a magnet. A marble in a salad bowl. The energy needed to pull it away (go up to the rim on the other side of the bowl) should be equal to the energy given up falling in to the field. >> I believe this would be true only if the final state (magnetization) of the ferrous material is the same at the end of the operation as at the beginning. <> If a piece of ferrous material is unmagnetized its macroscopic magnetic field energy must be zero; when it becomes magnetized the total magnetic field energy is the integral of .5 u H^2 over the magnet and surrounding space, if I understood correctly the magnetic theory I was taught. It doesn't sound as if this would be the "lower energy state", but maybe someone else can clarify this. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 13:29:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08357; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:29:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:29:13 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712221753.JAA28757@italy.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:28:41 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: to re: Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"m6Zix3.0.U22.ckjdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave - > Yes, like rolling down a bowl, but if the bar > becomes magnetized, upon removing it, its > acquired attractive magnetic field, in addition > to the induced, would make it harder to > remove. Right, apparently. But it's the multiple poles in motion that seems to do the trick. In sum, you see... A simple way to look at this is that SMOT operation involves *net amount of magnetism* and not some specific pole to pole relationship. This is a little weird, and why it gets to be all about order vs. disorder and the energy difference between theose states. Imaging a flat permanent magnet magnetized on its broad face, and 3 other target samples of the same size and proportions. One sample is a ferrous metal plate, one is an identical magnet, and one is a magnet array the same size consisting of smaller magnets of the same strength and composition as the main magnet, but they're arranged side by side in a N-S-N-S orientation throughout the area, like a checkerboard. Note that there is as much magnetization in that sample as in the regular homogenous magnets have. So, test the pull of the magnet on the ferrous sample. That's normal, so test the pull between two like magnets - strong pull one way, and repelling the other way - net zero! Now try the multimagnet sample. It's close to net zero - as if it weren't even ferromagnetic at all - no matter which face you present to the main magnet. That multimagnet is like a steel SMOT ball that has a 2 or more poles induced in it by contact with the fields of the SMOT ramp magnets. There is less *net* attraction. The problem for me is, I never got the SMOT to work, that is, yield a true level rollaway. But others do make the claim, so maybe there's something to it. All this leads me to conclude that the energy doesn't "come from somewhere" because the physicists are right and the energy isn't coming into the system in the first place - it's going *out* of the system being magnetized. There's something else I feel like I should mention here after having brought up the multiple pole thing. I don't know that having an array of discrete magnets arranged with their poles in as random or mixed an array as possible is the same thing as a randomly distributed array of magnetic *domains* in a ferromagnetic material. In the multiple magnet array, unless you tape things together good and strong, the magnets will try to arrange themselves in the checkerboard pole arrangement. That's 'downhill' for some reason energywise, even though the energy contained in the magnets themselves presumably doesn't change. This really is confusing. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 14:48:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20674; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:46:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:46:30 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD0EF8.EA033940@pm3-146.gpt.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Photon massless? Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:44:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD0EF8.EA0ADA60" Resent-Message-ID: <"RtDUp.0.p25.1tkdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD0EF8.EA0ADA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: KURT_BENSON@NON-HP-Boise-om8.om.hp.com = [SMTP:KURT_BENSON@NON-HP-Boise-om8.om.hp.com] Sent: Monday, December 22, 1997 10:52 AM To: MFergerson@aol.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Photon massless? Item Subject: cc:Mail Text > I don't understand why some of you people are so addicted to the = out=20 > of date concepts of phlogiston and the ether. laser bounce-back = > experiments from the moon have given us better than ever data = on the=20 > speed of light and there is NO data to support the evidence of = the=20 > ether. might as well dabble in alchemy. =20 [Kyle R. Mcallister] The speed of light is not in question. What is in = question (in my mind) is the validity of Special Relativity. Although it = may be generally accepted, that does not mean that SR is true. In fact, = the new experiments (Gunter Nimtz, et al.) such as the transmission of a = Mozart Symphony at 4.6 times C seem to prove relativity inadequate. = Although it is said that this would not produce a causality violation, = SR says it would. There was NO causality violation, yet scientists have = tried to claim that this was not a true signal. If they ish to keep SR = and accept the FTL experiments, they need to ascribe consciousness to = photons. Don't like that? Then you need a preffered reference frame. = What could manifest that? The ether. Evidence for the ether: Zero-Point = Fluctuations, inertial force (never has been explained satisfactorily), = many others. Einstein even stated his position was for the existence of = an ether before he died. And don't forget the Lorentz contraction. > also to reiterate, the photon is NOT massless. the wavicle that = is=20 > the photon is BENT by gravity and there fore MUST have mass to = be thus=20 > effected. =20 [Kyle R. Mcallister] According to modern textbooks it is. If it is bent = by gravity it can still be massless. Called Space-Time curvature. = (supports the ether as a medium of excitation to be bent).=20 > last and NOT least, don't throw out a theory without something = to=20 > support it. where's the math to support an ether? also how = does the=20 > expanding universe support the ether? is more ether produced to = fill=20 > it in? does the ether-equivalent of barometric pressure get = thinner=20 > as the universe expands? let's get really ridiculous and = suggest that=20 > the reason the universe is expanding is the production of ether = is=20 > causing it to blow up like a balloon. =20 [Kyle R. Mcallister] Sounds similar to Fred Hoyle's Steady state = universe. Any one of these explanations could work. Lets add another = crazy theory: Is the universe closed or open? Expanding or not? We make = assumtions, but we do not truly know.=20 Best Regards and a merry christmas to everyone, Kyle R. 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AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03 AAA3kg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD0EF8.EA0ADA60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 17:09:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12117; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:08:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:08:59 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: SMOT magnets pole flux density important ! Cc: monteverde@worldnet.att.net Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 02:08:48 +0100 Message-Id: <19971223020848.40a198c3.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id RAA12095 Resent-Message-ID: <"9lY9Q1.0.Ez2.fymdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 11:28 22.12.1997 -1000, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Dave - > > > Yes, like rolling down a bowl, but if the bar > > becomes magnetized, upon removing it, its > > acquired attractive magnetic field, in addition > > to the induced, would make it harder to > > remove. > >Right, apparently. But it's the multiple poles in motion that seems to do >the trick. In sum, you see... > >A simple way to look at this is that SMOT operation involves *net amount of >magnetism* and not some specific pole to pole relationship. This is a >little weird, and why it gets to be all about order vs. disorder and the >energy difference between theose states. > >Imaging a flat permanent magnet magnetized on its broad face, and 3 other >target samples of the same size and proportions. One sample is a ferrous >metal plate, one is an identical magnet, and one is a magnet array the same >size consisting of smaller magnets of the same strength and composition as >the main magnet, but they're arranged side by side in a N-S-N-S orientation >throughout the area, like a checkerboard. Note that there is as much >magnetization in that sample as in the regular homogenous magnets have. So, >test the pull of the magnet on the ferrous sample. That's normal, so test >the pull between two like magnets - strong pull one way, and repelling the >other way - net zero! Now try the multimagnet sample. It's close to net >zero - as if it weren't even ferromagnetic at all - no matter which face >you present to the main magnet. That multimagnet is like a steel SMOT ball >that has a 2 or more poles induced in it by contact with the fields of the >SMOT ramp magnets. There is less *net* attraction. > >The problem for me is, I never got the SMOT to work, that is, yield a true >level rollaway. But others do make the claim, so maybe there's something to >it. > >All this leads me to conclude that the energy doesn't "come from somewhere" >because the physicists are right and the energy isn't coming into the >system in the first place - it's going *out* of the system being >magnetized. > >There's something else I feel like I should mention here after having >brought up the multiple pole thing. I don't know that having an array of >discrete magnets arranged with their poles in as random or mixed an array >as possible is the same thing as a randomly distributed array of magnetic >*domains* in a ferromagnetic material. In the multiple magnet array, unless >you tape things together good and strong, the magnets will try to arrange >themselves in the checkerboard pole arrangement. That's 'downhill' for some >reason energywise, even though the energy contained in the magnets >themselves presumably doesn't change. This really is confusing. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > Hi Rick, did you test the B level of your magnets on the pole surfaces ? Were they all equal in your SMOT ramps ? In a recent telephone call to Greg he told me, that some SMOT ramps just don´t work, cause the floux density on some magnets just vary too much ! You have to use equal level flux density on all your magnets in your SMOT ramp on the surface of the magnets ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 17:13:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20415; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:12:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:12:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:12:39 +1100 Message-Id: <199712230112.MAA10343@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Ultrasonics & Water Resent-Message-ID: <"9JioM.0.n-4.I0ndq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Speaking of water, readers may be interested in an experiment I was told about some years ago. A mixture of water and gasoline were emulsified between two ultrasonic transducers. What emerged was a stable viscous fluid that exploded violently upon ignition. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 17:19:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13490; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:19:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:19:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971222205654.009acbc0@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:56:56 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Re to re: Where does energy come from? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3Npvd2.0.gI3.86ndq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 08:23 PM 12/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >This is where I think the energy comes from, not the PM, thus the PM doesn't >become weaker. Is this what you have found in your experiments? >One can also magnetize a piece of steel by a mechanical shock in a magnetic >field. >Since I just thought of this, any comments? >-Dave Yes, you're right on the money here. KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 17:27:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23409; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:27:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:27:12 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:20:52 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Popular Mechanics article Dec. 97, NASA's Antigravity Machine Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"VvqiZ2.0.fj5.kDndq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com For your info: If you can't get access to this article let me know, If I get any requests, I will get it scanned and put it on my web site. 2 pages, 3 photos Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 17:30:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23937; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:30:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:30:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971222210919.009ac7e8@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:09:22 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Re to re: Where does energy come from? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KTP2z3.0.wr5.4Hndq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:00 AM 12/22/97 -1000, you wrote: >Dave - > > > it keeps some of its magnetism and thus is > > attracted stronger to the PM after than before. > >I hope I'm not being irritating by repeating this, but what we saw >consistently in SMOT experiments was that a partially magnetized ball would >*not* be as strongly attracted into the ramp as a fresh or unmagnetized >ball. I got my best results from a ball that was heated to about 1000deg F >then repolished before use. This effect was very clear, and many people saw >it and remarked on it. I think it may have to do both with multiple poles >in the ball and the fact that the ball rolls along presenting a random >series of N and S faces to the magnets which tends to defeat the net >attraction somewhat, but it does work out that way. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Hardly. I missed this observation back in the SMOT discussions, thanks for mentioning it. I'd like it if you explained what you meant by a lower energy state. Perhaps you mean that the "temperature" is lower because of the organization? It does take work to magnetize magnets though, and in fact if SMOTS are actually shipped I have a piece of information to distribute to the testers regarding my own ideas about SMOT functioning (or not). Not trying to be mysterious here, just want people with SMOT in hand to consider the idea. If I post now, it may not be addressed. KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 17:41:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26680; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:41:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:41:28 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: <61e7b3ef.349f149e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:32:11 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: I will keep it simple with this question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"x32b33.0.hW6.5Rndq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, If I take a permanent magnet and pick up a piece of steel with it and when I pull the steel off the permenent magnet, the steel has become magnetized, I lay down the steel and pick up another piece of steel and do the same thing, and keep repeating this 1000 times, will the permanent magnet become less magnetic because it magnetized 1000 DIFFERENT pieces of steel? yes, no, Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 18:34:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25108; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:34:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:34:03 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: <510e919c.349f21c7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:28:21 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Need to get together on answer to energy source Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"oiJwq2.0.786.NCodq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, We seem to have come to a conclusion on the source of energy when a permenent magnet magnetizes a piece of steel. The work input to the system when the permanent magnet is "pulled" from the steel is the source it seems.That source may me a man's arm, a machine, ect., But it is the source of energy that magnetizes the steel, using the permanent magnet as a kind of catalist. Do you all agree? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 18:34:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25232; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:34:49 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:34:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712230232.AAA05421@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 00:12:16 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Re: Acoustic leviators Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"kXamJ2.0.8A6.5Dodq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Forwarded message: Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:11:54 -0600 From: Thomas Danley To: Noah Katz Cc: bass@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu, sfogg@ibm.net, ltneidow@voyager.net Subject: Re: Acoustic leviators Noah Katz wrote: > > Tom, how does sound (AC) develop the net "DC" force that would be required to > > oppose gravity? > Hi That's a good question, it works like this. Imagine a sound source that is producing a beam of sound at very high intensity, pointed up and some distance above it (like 10-20 wavelengths) is a reflector that is a wavelength or so across. The sound that reflected off this heads back down toward the sound source and produces an interference pattern (but the reflector size and distance to the source do not produce a standing wave). Starting at 1/4 wl below the reflector and every 1/2 wl below that point are "velocity maximums" in the sound (in an interference pattern there is a stationary presure maximum and velocity maximum spaced every 1/4 wavelength). At each velocity maximum or "energy well" you have a situation where the air Molecules are rushing back and fourth and now if you place a small object (less than 1/4 wl in size) in one of these wells the air molecules are forced to go around it, traveling a longer path and at a higher velocity than before. Because gravity sucks, the object will be pulled downward and then the actual velocity maximum is slightly higher than the center line of the object and now the air molecules on the top side have a higher velocity than those on the bottom. This speed difference imparts bernulli (sp?) lift as in an airplane wing. This lifting force is what causes the levitation to happen and the density of the object determines how much intensity is required to levitate, about 155 dB will levitate a styrofoam ball and about 175 dB will levitate lead or tungsten (denser than lead). 175 dB is also loud enough to light a ciggarette with acoustic friction, pretty loud. Why would anyone want to do this you ask? Back when NASA was interested in manufacturing in space, we (Intersonics Inc) built experimental hardware to process new types of materials without a container. This containerless aproach solved one of the main problems that one runs into when the temperatures needed to melt new Glasses, Ceramics, Semi-conductors, Superconductors etc., become too high for any of the containers available. While the news media focussed on the idea of making more perfect ballbearings etc, the real goal was new types of materials, for example of all the possible materials that could form Glass, only about %10 form glass in a container, the remainder crystalize or pick up impurities from the container. After working on this stuff for 20 years or so we got very good at it, infact while we had successfully processed at 1650 deg (C) on the shuttle and 2400 deg (C) on the ground and our only competitor (JPL) failed at 350 deg (C) in space, however there political clout outweighted the NASA scientists recomendations and they got the whole shooting match, this put Intersonics Inc out of buisness. Ironically JPL's coninued failures and huge cost over runs eventually lead NASA to conclude acoustic levitation didn't work. Meanwhile the small containerless processing branch of Intersonics that spun off after the cutoff of funding now sells high temperature processing systems commercially, primarily to Japan's MITI and other industries in Japan. It is another one of those sad stories where TAX dollars funded development of some really good technology and just as it was about to do usefull work, the politicians "grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory" and in effect gave it to the Japanese. To see acoustic levitation in action (and yours truely) rent a copy of "Mystery of the Sphinx" with Charlton (Moses) Heston. This movie is how I got involved with measuring the acoustics in the great Pyramid a year ago, see http://www.magicaleye.com/ To see the part of Intersonics Inc that survived in containerless processing see. http://www.containerless.com/containerless/aal.htm I did a quick Hotbot search of acoustic levitation and found a flood of JPL papers (they were a "paper mill") and only a few related to Intersonics, a search for Intersonics worked better. This is probably more than you ever wanted to know on the subject but once I started typing I couldn't stop. Tom From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 18:37:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25761; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:37:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:37:17 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: <3009f19d.349f22ea@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:33:12 EST To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Thanks to all, for your input on magnet and steel question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"b117L1.0.NI6.PFodq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks to all, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 19:47:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06912; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:46:58 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:46:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349D8F38.2003@dove.net.au> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:50:48 -0800 From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Festive Greetings. & MORE ! References: <19971222003913.3b29367f.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PHvbB1.0.qh1.lGpdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello to all of the list subscribers. Although I do not contribute as much as I would like to, I have enjoyed the last year of postings and.. umm .. err .. "Discussions" :) I know that at this time of year our thoughts turn to those of Family and the significance of Christmas, (in whatever form that chooses to manifest itself personally to each of us). Let's put aside all prejudices, ( or if more than one, should that in fact be the Latin "prejudii" ) :) :) And get on with the business of accepting the differences that we all are burdened with, here's for a Great 1998, with the hope that some of our individual researches start to show positive results, reducing our Global dependence upon "old technology" ( Hence "Fossil" Fuels ). Take care everyone, wherever your travels take you - may it be a safe and smooth ride. M E R R Y C H R I S T M A S & A H A P P Y N E W Y E A R Glenville T. Sawyer Kapunda, South Australia. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 20:12:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10207; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:12:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:12:39 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199712221753.JAA28757@italy.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:11:37 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: re: Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"-6x3D1.0.OV2.repdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick Monteverde writes: >Imaging a flat permanent magnet magnetized on its broad face, and 3 other hmm... for some reason I am reminded of a magnet experiment I did awhile ago. I had a bunch of small cylindrical magnets, maybe 3/4" diameter and about 1/8" think, poles on the flat faces. I was playing with two stuck side by side (N-S) and noticed how they would roll around each other with ease, even though they were stuck together. I glued one to a board, north pole facing up, then glued 12 more in a circle around it, south poles facing up, with a 3/4" channel in between. I then place the 13th magnet in the channel with south pole facing up, so it was attracted by the center magnet and repelled by those on the outer edge. Giving a slight push would cause the free magnet to accelerate in the channel, though it would eventually stop at an equilibrium point between two of the outer magnets (and occasionally it would flip out of the channel and over and stick face-to-face to the center magnet). Of course, what I needed was a solid outer ring magnet, so there would be no place for the free magnet to stop... >you present to the main magnet. That multimagnet is like a steel SMOT ball >that has a 2 or more poles induced in it by contact with the fields of the so where are the poles when a ball is magnetized by rolling over the surface of a magnet? is it determined by the point where the ball's surface first contacts one pole or the last contact as it leaves? r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 21:58:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23763; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:57:43 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:57:43 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19971223020848.40a198c3.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:24:34 -1000 To: freenrg list From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT magnets pole flux density important ! Resent-Message-ID: <"V2L842.0.7p5.GBrdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan - > did you test the B level of your > magnets on the pole surfaces ? No. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 21:58:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23826; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:58:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:58:08 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971222210919.009ac7e8@cnct.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:22:24 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Re to re: Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"2rUCi.0.6p5.GBrdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keith - > I'd like it if you explained what you meant by > a lower energy state. A ferromagnetic mass that is not magnetized and is at a given temperature supposedly has more energy in it that an equal mass at the same temperature that is magnetized. That's my current understanding of this, and it very well could be wrong, so watch out. Magnetize the unmagnetized sample, and outside of any resistive losses due to hysteresis, the temperature of the sample in an adiabatic situation will be lower. Magnetocaloric effect. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 22:15:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28769; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:15:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:15:39 -0800 (PST) To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:04:42 -0800 Subject: ZPE and plasma ignition Message-ID: <19971222.220513.9006.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-12 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"N99dT1.0.Q17.8Srdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thinking about Plasma devices like Moray, Correa, and Chernetskii. At the moment when a gas becomes ionized by dielectic breakdown, free electrons become more numerous. Could it be that this sudden increased population of free electrons quickly gain kinetic energy from the ZPE fluctuations while the much more massive ions would not ? Might this cause a momentary electron current gain ? Any thoughts ? Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 22:28:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01485; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:28:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:28:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:28:08 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re to re: Where does energy come from? In-Reply-To: <8a899cfc.349d9285@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_yZP62.0.6N.Kerdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, HLafonte wrote: -snip- >Thanks for the lead, but on the last question, do you know where the energy >comes from to magnetize? Does the permanent magnet lose some energy, if so >does that mean that if I we to magnetize 1000 pieces of steel with a permanent >magnet that it would just keep getting weaker? >Thanks, >Butch > Yes, weaker and weaker, just passes it on. YES, the final 100+,000-/+ puzzle of steel pieces on a your puzzle would indeed look like a bull's eye trying to escape.. If magnet piece(s) (center) and steel pieces (outer) were observed under flux-filter film, The center would have tried its best, but peter'd out... /.......snip......snip...... (center) and steel pieces.. [Magnetizing each and every bit of steel along the way (period). It SHOULD/Would pursue the path of LEAST reflucxtance resistance.... Invision a Cross or a Tri-pod. Oh, sorry for the header : "Where does the energy come FROM?", I DON'T KNOW, but that is "the way it will GO!" ..still workable.. Nothing weird here, but the NULL point, or BALANCE point, or .....(?) hummm (pick any shape) & try it! -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 23:11:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19984; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:10:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:10:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:10:53 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RIAP bulletin (Russian anomalous sci.) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vBg_s1.0.3u4.1Gsdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here's a message from last month that I intended to forward here. $20/year looks like it might be a good deal, and there's interesting material advertized in back issues. (I've never encountered their journal myself.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 14:58:53 +0200 From: vladimir@neuro.kharkov.ua To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: letter to Dr. William J. Beaty Dear Dr. Beaty: My name is Vladimir Rubtsov. I am a member of the Society for Scientific Exploration and the Director of Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena, an independent scientific- research body, established in Kharkov (Ukraine) a few years ago. We aim at scientific studies in the fields of non-traditional energy sources, the UFO problem, and the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) question. The Institute makes its investigations in strict conformity to requirements of the scientific method and in close collaboration with the CIS Academy of Cosmonautics and the Russian Academy of Sciences. Please find here attached (as Appendix I) some information on the Institute and its activities. To inform the international scientific community about the results of investigations that are being conducted by RIAP specialists and other scientists in the territory of the former Soviet Union, we have started, in 1994, a special periodical: newsletter "RIAP Bulletin" (RB). It is the ONLY serious anomalistic periodical in the Commonwealth of Independent States published IN ENGLISH. As you probably know, Ukraine is now in a difficult economic situation. It is not surprising, therefore, that scientific-research bodies do not obtain sufficient funding. This is especially true for the independent, non-governmental ones, such as our Institute is. In particular, at present we are faced with considerable difficulties, trying to publish "RIAP Bulletin" with due regularity. We have two new RB issues, that are completely ready for printing and sending to their recipients (not to mention a lot of very interesting papers, meant for future RB issues), but the institute is short of the necessary means. We have approached some Ukrainian foundations, not without success, but, unfortunately, their grants did not cover the whole sum needed. In this connection, couldn't you kindly consider a possibility to donate to publication of "RIAP Bulletin" any sum that you would consider as appropriate? I and my colleagues would be much grateful to you for such an aid! In particular, all future issues of the bulletin would be sent to you free of charge. As I hope, RB could be of interest to you. As a matter of fact, "RIAP Bulletin" is the only periodical in the territory of the former Soviet Union publishing serious, scientific works on anomalistics, and serving therefore as the only means of communications between the specialists in the CIS and in the USA. Perhaps, it is an embryo of the future international system of communications of this sort, and it would be a regret to lose it just due to the current - temporary, as I am sure - financial difficulties. With all my best wishes, I remain, Sincerely yours, Vladimir V. Rubtsov, Ph.D., Director, RIAP Appendix I: RESEARCH INSTITUTE ON ANOMALOUS PHENOMENA, Kharkov, Ukraine Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena (RIAP) has been established in 1992. It is an independent research body, aimed at scientific studies in the fields of non-traditional energy sources, the UFO problem and non-classical SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence). The principal trends of researches of the Institute in the UFO field are as follows: development of methods and strategies of active monitoring of UFOs by means of radar, optical, infra- red and other detection systems; instrumental studies of supposed landing sites, impacts on biological systems and UFO samples; creation of an efficient system of reconstruction of a real anomalous event on the basis of witnesses' testimonies; creation of a unified UFO data base and a computer expert system to identify genuine UFOs (GUFOs); development of physical models of GUFOs. In the SETI field, we are realizing the program "Search for Alien Artifacts on the Moon" (SAAM). This program includes: search for sunlight reflections from flat (mirror-like) surfaces of hypothetical ET objects (say, reconnaissance devices monitoring the Earth); search for other probable artificial ET phenomena on the Lunar surface; examination of the possibility of interaction between the terrestrial and extraterrestrial civilizations on the Moon; simulation of probable ET strategies for the Moon. The Scientific Council and Advisory Board of the Institute include such Russian and Ukrainian specialists in the UFO problem and SETI field as A.V.Arkhipov (radio astronomer who has discovered supposed ETI radio sources near some distant stars), A.V.Beletsky (historian studying pre-1917 UFO waves in Russia), Dr. E.A.Ermilov (specialist in radio detection of aerial anomalous phenomena), Dr. V.N.Fomenko (investigator of the famous Vashka find, as well as other supposed ET artifacts), Yu.A.Fomin (doyen of UFO studies in Russia), Dr. L.M.Gindilis (astronomer and SETI expert), Dr. Yu.V.Platov (Vice-Chairman of the Academic UFO Study Group), Dr. V.K.Zhuravlev (investigator of the Tunguska explosion), and others. The Advisory Board comprehends also a group of well-known Western scientists, scholars and engineers - V.-J.Ballester Olmos (Spain), Dr. T.E.Bullard (USA), Dr. R.F.Haines (USA), Dr. A.Meessen (Belgium), et al. The institute publishes its newsletter - "RIAP Bulletin" (RB) - in the English language. There appear in RB research articles, short communications, book reviews, letters to the Editor, etc. RB Vol. 1, Nos. 1 - 4 and Vol. 2, Nos. 1 - 4 have been printed and sent to subscribers. They contain, in particular, the papers "Post-Soviet Ufology: a View from Inside" and "Alternative Science?" by V.V.Rubtsov; "UFOs as Objects of Study by Terrestrial Physics" by V.A.Buerakov; "Astrodynamical Aspect of Paleovisitology" and "UFOs on the Moon" by A.V.Arkhipov; "UFOs: a Possible Mechanism of Formation, Behavior and Environmental Impact" by V.I.Mazhuga; "The Petrozavodsk Phenomenon", by Dr. L.M.Gindilis & Yu.K.Kolpakov; "A Second UFO Landing on the River Mzha", by a group of RIAP scientists, and others. We have also published the first really comprehensive survey of anomalous features of the famous Tunguska explosion ("The Tunguska Meteorite: A Dead-Lock or the Start of a New Stage of Inquiry?"), written by the leading Russian specialist in this problem - Dr. Nikolay V. Vasilyev, Member of Academy. There will appear in the next RB issues, in particular, the following papers: "The Black Ball: a Supposed Extraterrestrial Artifact", by Dr. V.N.Fomenko; "New Data on Genetic Impact by the Tunguska Space Body", by N.V.Vasilyev; "UFOs: False and Genuine", by the Russian academic UFO expert Dr. Yu.V.Platov; "Supposed UFO Landing in Zaporozhye, July 23, 1994," by Yu.A.Novikov, and many others. RIAP Bulletin is published four times per year. Subscription rates: a life-long subscription - $100; 12 issues (three years) - $50; 8 issues (two years) - $35; 4 issues (one year) - $20. Airmail postage included. Back issues are still available in limited quantities ($5 per issue, $30 for the whole set). Institute mailing address: RIAP, P.O.Box 4684, 310022 Kharkov- 22, Ukraine. Internet e-mail address: vladimir@neuro.kharkov.ua RIAP Scientific Council ==================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 23:20:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21881; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:20:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:20:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:19:55 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Free energy machine invented? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9_9fJ1.0.mL5.WOsdq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Someone passed me this humourous fake AP story... Linkname: Free Energy Machine Invented URL: http://atlas.comet.net/~gus/satire/freeenergy.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 23:51:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11121; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:51:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:51:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 00:50:45 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A merry Christmas and happy new year from Geoff Egel and solaris In-Reply-To: <199712220715.SAA15314@main.murray.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZQO5S.0.ej2.Zrsdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Geoff Egel wrote: >>I like to say a Merry Christmas and happy New year from Downunder or from >the top >of the World ,it all depends where you see where the top is. > >I like to thank all those that have helped me develop my website and hope >it has been >of interest and help to others during the past year. > >I would also like to thank those that have contribruted to this newsgroup >with ideas views and discussions into this approaching free energy and >overunity fields. >Lets hope we can see a fully working machine that no one can doubt in the >very near future. (98 Can't wait ) > >Looking forward to doing more in the new year 98 > >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > >Geoff > > 2U2 ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 01:03:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16775; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 01:02:55 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 01:02:55 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199712221753.JAA28757@italy.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:02:29 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: re: Where does energy come from? Resent-Message-ID: <"OrwNm2.0.064.zutdq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ralph - > so where are the poles when a ball is > magnetized by rolling over the surface of a > magnet? is it determined by the point where > the ball's surface first contacts one pole or > the last contact as it leaves? I don't know. But the do get magnetized. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 11:02:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10892; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 11:02:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 11:02:08 -0800 From: MFergerson Message-ID: <78151731.34a00931@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:55:43 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Need to get together on answer to energy source Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"gyMiV2.0.zf2.kg0eq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Butch wrote: >Hi, >We seem to have come to a conclusion on the source of energy when a permenent >magnet magnetizes a piece of steel. The work input to the system when the >permanent magnet is "pulled" from the steel is the source it seems.That source >may me a man's arm, a machine, ect., But it is the source of energy that >magnetizes the steel, using the permanent magnet as a kind of catalist. >Do you all agree? >Butch Agreed; magnetization is a condition, not an effect: imposing that condition costs energy. The permanent magnet "informs" the iron what to do. Whacking a piece of iron in an external field is a more easily understood example of the same concept. Slow input of heat can do the same job as the hammer; that's how natural minerals record variations in the earth's field. Seems to me, anyway Mark L. Fergerson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 13:05:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA32362; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:05:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:05:25 -0800 Message-ID: <34A02662.7650F1EF@ctv.es> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:00:19 +0100 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I will keep it simple with this question X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <61e7b3ef.349f149e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p-vrA1.0.Wv7.JU2eq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com HLafonte wrote: > Hi all, > If I take a permanent magnet and pick up a piece of steel with it and > when I > pull the steel off the permenent magnet, the steel has become > magnetized, I > lay down the steel and pick up another piece of steel and do the same > thing, > and keep repeating this 1000 times, will the permanent magnet become > less > magnetic because it magnetized 1000 DIFFERENT pieces of steel? yes, > no, > Thanks, > Butch Hi, Butch and all.I think energy stored in the metal piece is the same you use to remove the metal piece from the magnet with your hand. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 14:00:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17992; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:59:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:59:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712232157.TAA06026@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:00:51 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: ATG group vanished ?? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19971223195427.44713cb5.in@pop3.vossnet.de> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"_AKHp2.0.zO4.QH3eq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > > >I did tests with the bipeg circuit and it works ok. > > > >But for me it is ONLY a very low power oscilator. It needs very few > >uA to run. I got mine working several minutes just conected to a > >charged 10000 uF capacitor. > > > >But no OU results. > > Hi, > > which circuit did you use ? The bp062397.htm, "Baseline BiPEG for energy production". But I used a ferrite toroidal core, with trifilar windings and a BD139 transistor. > Did you try to get a feedback circuit to cloose the loop and run it longer ? Yes, that way the circuit ran for 8 - 10 minutes on a 10000 uF capacitor. > > Regards, Stefan. > -- Merry Christmas ................ Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 17:51:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20234; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:51:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:51:23 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: www.overunity.com updated ! Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 02:55:19 +0100 Message-Id: <19971224025519.45f28a7a.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"b2wpp1.0._x4.Pg6eq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.overunity.com/update.htm Merry Christmas to everybody ! I hope 1998 will be a very successfull year for free energy devices. See the announcement on my site. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 19:01:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23767; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 19:01:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 19:01:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A06791.62C8@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:38:25 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT magnets pole flux density important ! References: <19971223020848.40a198c3.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id TAA23732 Resent-Message-ID: <"_INoC2.0.Ep5.qh7eq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > At 11:28 22.12.1997 -1000, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > >Dave - > > > > > Yes, like rolling down a bowl, but if the bar > > > becomes magnetized, upon removing it, its > > > acquired attractive magnetic field, in addition > > > to the induced, would make it harder to > > > remove. > > > >Right, apparently. But it's the multiple poles in motion that seems to do > >the trick. In sum, you see... > > > >A simple way to look at this is that SMOT operation involves *net amount of > >magnetism* and not some specific pole to pole relationship. This is a > >little weird, and why it gets to be all about order vs. disorder and the > >energy difference between theose states. > > > >Imaging a flat permanent magnet magnetized on its broad face, and 3 other > >target samples of the same size and proportions. One sample is a ferrous > >metal plate, one is an identical magnet, and one is a magnet array the same > >size consisting of smaller magnets of the same strength and composition as > >the main magnet, but they're arranged side by side in a N-S-N-S orientation > >throughout the area, like a checkerboard. Note that there is as much > >magnetization in that sample as in the regular homogenous magnets have. So, > >test the pull of the magnet on the ferrous sample. That's normal, so test > >the pull between two like magnets - strong pull one way, and repelling the > >other way - net zero! Now try the multimagnet sample. It's close to net > >zero - as if it weren't even ferromagnetic at all - no matter which face > >you present to the main magnet. That multimagnet is like a steel SMOT ball > >that has a 2 or more poles induced in it by contact with the fields of the > >SMOT ramp magnets. There is less *net* attraction. > > > >The problem for me is, I never got the SMOT to work, that is, yield a true > >level rollaway. But others do make the claim, so maybe there's something to > >it. > > > >All this leads me to conclude that the energy doesn't "come from somewhere" > >because the physicists are right and the energy isn't coming into the > >system in the first place - it's going *out* of the system being > >magnetized. yes but it is going in adding momentum so that at the point of equilibrium the PM reprocess the flow of momentum and of course takes more than it gives this is enrage enema sorry cant find that word natures balance of energy but it need not be like this and thats whats so fascinating about magnetism I mean you can see momentum added and then robbed when the ball is at the point of magnetic balance. My best shot at the smot before I got pissed off with the soldering of track and the lack of flux return deviant knowledge and with out the tools to check each and every magnet, linear Hall sensor, 3 1.2v cells, switch,and my perverse cheepo multimeter to test as to weather it was up to the job . It involved rotating the last 2 5 magnet arrays hinging the back side of one parallel to the bottom of the stack of 4 and the top in line with the top with the other 4 doing the same,this moves the point of equilibrium forward and opens a zone of low flux below also as the ball reaches the drop off spin is increased and it does a head over heals toward the strongest flux point surprise your ve kicked arse because this is a blue zone and you have just cheated that smart arse magnet and some times you can get right out 50mm or so but other times that smart arse magnet reaches out and pulls you back ,[never posted this at the time as big brake throughs were being anounced and it was unstable ] or pulls you off the track its a very touchie setup rubber bands around the last 5 \\\\\ 0 ///// I stuffed a few balls and the magnets before I learnt that ,it was the only setup that gave me any show of escape wont work with half round track witch shows the importance of the neutral line and with just one sick magnet that will snake and robs momentum I learnt that L shaped aluminium is the best base mount for magnets slot cut in base inward outward ,rotation single screw ,two slots arks for height and angle adjust wood glued to steps 123 maybe 4 then screw it . N gage track what a brassted I used brass square tube for sleepers for a time and heat sinks are essential when soldering as are hobbie glasses and a Dremel with dimond cut off disc the speed for brake out had to be just right as to fast sucked and to slow did not from memery 14mm from end was drop off ,height was 10mm 8mm may be best ,array end 20mm start 21mm and the ball reaches maxim added momentum 13mm from start oh well its 3.30 am again good night and good gardening to you all err building -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive EXPERIMENTAL RESEARCH > >There's something else I feel like I should mention here after having > >brought up the multiple pole thing. I don't know that having an array of > >discrete magnets arranged with their poles in as random or mixed an array > >as possible is the same thing as a randomly distributed array of magnetic > >*domains* in a ferromagnetic material. In the multiple magnet array, unless > >you tape things together good and strong, the magnets will try to arrange > >themselves in the checkerboard pole arrangement. That's 'downhill' for some > >reason energywise, even though the energy contained in the magnets > >themselves presumably doesn't change. This really is confusing. > > > >- Rick Monteverde > >Honolulu, HI > > > > > > Hi Rick, > > did you test the B level of your magnets on the pole surfaces ? > > Were they all equal in your SMOT ramps ? > > In a recent telephone call to Greg he told me, that some SMOT ramps just > don´t work, cause the floux density on some magnets just vary too much ! > > You have to use equal level flux density on all your magnets in your SMOT ramp > on the surface of the magnets ! > > Regards, Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 01:27:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11233; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:41 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:25:41 -0800 X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199712240925.BAA31475@slave1.aa.net> X-Sender: knuke@pop.aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: HP O/U Circuit? Resent-Message-ID: <"6vhpA.0.Pl2.FLDeq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jerry! On 12/21/97 you wrote: >Has anyone heard anything about a circuit developed at HP that was used >in a piece of their equipment...this circuit would spontaneously produce >more power than was being fed into it and had to be modified to quench >this action. Details as much as I have been told about it are at; > > http://www.keelynet.com/ click on Strange Info > >If you know anything about this, I'd be most interested in trying to >track it down...thanks! Happy Holidays! >-- When I first moved to Seattle in the Spring of '88, I was downtown looking for a job amid the highrises when the entire six block area that I was in went black. The story on the news was that someone, I'm pretty sure it was HP, had rented underground storage space in one of the tunnels that runs through the city. Seattle actually has an entire abandoned city underground, and I believe this may have been an unused part of this. Anyhow, HP had stored a whole bunch of palettes of one of their calculators that were powered by a lithium hydride battery, and these calculators had some kind of accidental circuit design flaw that would allow the circuit board to behave as an attenna, which would cause the battery to charge while the calculator was turned off. As you may know, the older lithium batteries would explode like a handgrenade if they were overcharged, and that is exactly what happened. There were some main power lines, trunk lines, in the tunnel as well, in close enough proximity to the room that the calculators were stored, and the explosion knocked them all out causing the blackout in that area of town. When I first heard the explanation, I thought "Eureka! Why hasn't anyone thought of this before!" "You should be able to charge just about any battery with the ambient radiowaves!" "Somebody outta patent that circuit!" etc. etc. (I get excited about that sort of thing, you know) And, sure enough, I read a couple of weeks later about some guy that had been working on that very idea, and had just sold the rights of his invention to one of the big battery maker companys for a wad of dough. Of course, I spent the rest of the day kicking myself for not thinking about it earlier! When I saw your post, it reminded me of this story, and I thought it might be related, but when I finally looked up the details on your webpage, I could see that it is probably not. But, it did give me the opportunity to check out your page (for the first time, I'm embarrassed to admit), and wanted to say that it is a fantastic bunch of weirdness. I read the Clem files, and about the Centripete that looks remarkably like the Potapov device (except that it can be made with a plastic coke bottle for under ten bucks). Good Stuff. I can see that I need to spend a few hours more on your page. -Knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 02:10:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05603; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 02:10:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 02:10:16 -0800 Message-ID: <34A0FB6F.716E@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 04:09:19 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: knuke@aa.net Subject: Re: HP O/U Circuit? References: <199712240925.BAA31475@slave1.aa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IW3yP3.0.NN1.7-Deq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Michael! That is a great story about the HP batteries being overcharged by ambient radio waves. I've heard stories about some kind of circuit that could power real loads (lamps, small motors) using only ambient EM. ------------------------------- Tom Bearden wrote back with the following (& more detail on anti-stokes emission, 4 wave mixing, etc.); Jerry, Probably a circuit that was somewhat akin to a thing that Westinghouse placed in the Minuteman missile some years ago. In those days electronics were still more bulky, and space and weight were at a premium on board ICBMs etc. So the engineers set about to design a highly efficient frequency converter for the Minuteman. It had to be at least 90% efficient, preferrably 95%. The engineers used germanium transistors and state-of-the-art feedforward and feedback loops, to squeeze every bit of efficiency out of there that was possible. Something like 64 transistors were involved in the forward and reverse multiple looping. -------------------------------- Also, there is a fascinating 'Global News' report in the Dec/Jan 98 NEXUS about 'Electromagnetic Hot Spots make Cars go Crazy'. - Many of Sydney's new cars have become vulnerable to various EM field 'hot-spots' according to Phil Scott, Motoring Editor of the Sydney Morning Herald. Symptoms include cars jamming on their own brakes, doors locking and gears shifting on their own, and engines shutting down completely. The cars at most risk are a relatively small number of newer cars with inadequate 'immunity' built into the electronic systems which control brakes, transmissions and features such as central door-locking, cruise control and air conditioning. Airbags can also be affected. These malfunctions have been assigned different classes, - fuel gauge doesn't work while you are on the mobile phone (grade 1), (grade 2) windshield wipers going off, (grade 3) electric seat repositioning by itself as you drive, (grade 5) signal to stop left front wheel while driving.......I plan to post this as it could be important....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 11:13:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19777; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:13:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:13:06 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:23:47 -0500 Subject: Re: sprouts with turntable Message-ID: <19971224.140735.6486.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199712190859.AAA08459@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-7,9,11-14,18-20,22-26 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"D4fGt2.0.lq4.0xLeq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:59:05 -0800 (PST) Dave Dameron writes: >Hi Steve and Rick, >At 02:51 AM 12/18/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >The point was to Not have the plants themselves rotating, only the >turntable below, or even above in your description. I would be very interested >to see if you find it is something else besides thermal convection currents. >So >please try it! >-Dave > Hi guy's...an idea just poppoed in my head, have you considered substituting a water vortex fot the turntable. Saw a device on the net called the "centrepete", which was a simple tube with the water injected from 3 nozzles at the top which got it spinning. Many other ways to get water spinning though.... >From what I read, the direction of spin is also importiant, may want to spin your turntable both ways and compare results. Have fun. Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 11:13:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19790; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:13:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:13:09 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:55:14 -0500 Subject: Re: SMOT apology Message-ID: <19971224.140735.6486.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <19971220.214052.11830.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,13-14,18-19,24-25,29-33 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"PpewV3.0.7r4.3xLeq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 21:38:16 -0800 tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) writes: > >Greg, I literally spent hundreds of hours (ask my wife) last summer >trying to get a roll around. I know what you must have gone through >to make a reproducible SMOT kit. If you do manage to deliver >rollaround SMOT kits it will be a great achievment indeed. >Tim Vaughan I am in the process of building a smot ramp, this weekend I purchased some PBC tubing. My first question to you is have you built a working smot ramp itself? At this point I am not worrried about a roll around, just a ball "rolling uphill". And if you got one to work, did you make a mark 1 or mark 2 array? I looked at Greg's site, the plans to produce a roll around should have a least two arrays (the second on the opposite side). If using one array, I think another stack of magnets (or two) will give more height and increasing a chance of rollaround. I may of mentioned this before, but from what I see, the smot makes clever use of the inclined plane- so that the ball is pulled to an elevation that a magnet directly pulling vertically would not be able to do. This is importiant, as too strong of a magnetic field would not allow the ball to escape. In the past I "designed on paper" many magnet motor concepts, one of the basic design elements "in my opinion" is to get the ball/rotor/etc to escape the magnetic field at a 90 degree angle from it's natural path through the array, the smot HAS that design element. -just my two cents worth! Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 11:17:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08657; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:16:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:16:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A17B4F.6905@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:14:55 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Centrifugal Acceleration Gradient Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sGF073.0.A72.Q-Leq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! Found something interesting that applies to how the Orffyreus wheel can get additional energy based on centrifugal force. Check out; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/orrcent.htm As long as the resistance encountered when restoring the weights snug to the axle is less than the total weight applied on the descending side, then it will self-run. Happy Holidays! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 11:52:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27212; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:52:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:52:24 -0800 From: MFergerson Message-ID: <79d0af02.34a1677a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:50:15 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT magnets pole flux density important ! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"fseIH.0.0f6.sVMeq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com R. Rowntree wrote a highly information-dense post including: > >All this leads me to conclude that the energy doesn't "come from somewhere" > >because the physicists are right and the energy isn't coming into the > >system in the first place - it's going *out* of the system being > >magnetized. :yes but it is going in adding momentum so that at the point of :equilibrium :the PM reprocess the flow of momentum and of course takes more than it :gives :this is enrage enema sorry cant find that word natures balance of :energy but it need not be like this and thats whats so fascinating about :magnetism I mean you can see momentum added and then robbed when the :ball is at the point of magnetic balance. Entropy? Very important concept- helps explain why certain energy states are preferred over others- relates to the "order" in a given state- nature seems to prefer the low-order or random-order state in non-self- organizing/sustaining systems. Many magnets in mutual N to S config are low- energy, high-entropy state. Not always complementary- the vacuum (ground state) is high-energy (ZPE) but also high-entropy (disorganized). What I called the unobserved/unobservable "Frozen" Aether state would be no-energy, but maximally organized, thus lowest possible entropy, therefore probably unstable. When you whack a piece of iron in a magnetic field, you "add" order (from the mag field), but actually "extract" energy as the domains "fall" into the ordered state. Same thing applies to using a permanent magnet to do the magnetizing. Not sure how it applies to the SMOT... Mark L. Fergerson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 12:07:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA30204; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:07:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:07:40 -0800 From: MFergerson Message-ID: <33f09689.34a16b29@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:05:59 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT apology Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"eP_8r3.0.fN7.9kMeq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com S. Heckman inspired me with: :In the past I "designed on paper" many magnet motor concepts, one of the :basic design elements "in my opinion" is to get the ball/rotor/etc to :escape the magnetic field at a 90 degree angle from it's natural path :through the array, the smot HAS that design element. How 'bout this: wrap the SMOT (several SMOT's end-to-end?) in a circle input to output, the SMOT's vertical plane becoming the radial plane of the circle (track rimward)... the ball(s) attached to an axle free to rotate.. make the axle vertical to neutralize gravitational interference...the ball(s) should feel a constant acceleration around the circle.. would a track be necessary to spin the balls? Do they have to spin? Greg, you listening? You got the hardware to try this? Mark L. Fergerson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 02:16:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28729; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 02:16:22 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 02:16:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A2302F.1D57@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:06:39 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: GIFT from farrter christmas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KqhMo2.0.n07.q9Zeq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com COPYRIGHT OF Robbie Rowntree this document maybe freely posted in its entirety only, you may correct any spelling mistakkkok WRAPPING Merry Christmas fellow hunters of the elusive ZPE and to all fellow Suns and Daughters of GOD my gift from my Divine spirit I give to you comes with strict conditions all who brake the conditions under which it is given shall be CURSED and so to will the device 1 To the manager of manufacture of every working device constructed one hours working income must be paid to the inventor known as Robbie Rowntree born libra in the year of the horse in the town of Motueka in the land of the long white cloud 2 All who use this device for war a very terrible CURSE shall befall you for all who accept this gift I shall use there gift for seeding {SLOWLY} the ocean with iron , feeding photo plankton ,releasing oxygen and absorbing carbon 300,000 tons of fine iron powder will fix 1 years output of CO2 pollution and generate a vast bloom of food through out the entire food chain , 1/2ton fe =7000 ton co2 c traped O freed thats a lot of life how ever in LATE January 98 we pass through the debris fields of comet Hail Bopp and if it hails iron the ocean will be fed and this will not be my task let us all hope it wont bop AS WELL GIFT The plans i have drawn for the RRAMM E PUMP are untested and hence incomplete it is a simple job to build using low tech materials I HOPE! here is were I am up to s =iron flux bridges 10x10mm x f = ferrite rod 9x70.mm =2 + 9x35mm =4 ssssssssss DC coils wound on f 2x2 .125 enamel wires outside f f to centre >< f f centre fff= ferrite flat aerial rod AC coil wound on f f slimmed down centre section . end ssssss ssssss ssssssfffffffffss side view folded f N S f f M out f S f N f f M f f N R S f f M R f f w f f fw /\ f ffBffffBff f f fffffBBBBBBBOBBBBBBBBB RR f f w f f fw \/ f S R N f f M R f N f S f f M f f S N f f M ssssss ssssss sssssssfffffffffss f f f f B=brass rocker flat slots cut fit f f fffffff =AC coil fat wound, fw =wings top sssssssssss and bottom to enhance cross over flux when ffffff is high or low O=threaded rod sharpened for needle bearings 4 nuts to hold brass rocker R=neodymium magnets rods and disc ,rods toped with ferrite rod and all wound to act as enhancing coil which are in repulsion to centre disc, just strong enough to stop contact /\ \/= counter balance rubber stoppers and direction of travel SN and M are 4 stacks of 5 13x10x4 mm frig magnets, test for best if these are chosen scale up or down to suit the important dimensions are keep it square on inside ,with space for AC coil and inside return flux dimension through DC coils {pillars may need to be tapered ><}and sum of ssssss should be even, shoulders longer for mounting and adjustment The cycle goes like this head@feet short, flux flows O O through side pillars power to battery, ffffffff AC moves down from last enhancement coil pulses, O pillars short , head@feet flux flows power to battery ,bottom O magnets flux flows through ffffff centre AC coil power out enhanced by top magnets flux across top fw flux wings short cut , bottom enhancement coil pulse , top may have usable output ,fffffffffff moves up toward neutral short head@feet flux flows O O through side pillars power to battery,fffffffffff reaches neutral side pillars short flux takes big O head@feet flux flows power to battery ............. fffffffffff may need to be just back out of gap so that appropriate wings are clear of flux during travel arc mercury-wetted relays for switching enhancing coils not to shore about the rest as my construction progresses my under standing of what is requited and what will work changes for instance I can see some problems with switching flux as this requires a changeing flux HELP please all contributions toward a working ou pump are granted 1000 hours wages if so desired, plus all the power and freedom one can dream of, use it wisely. As Bingo Crosbie still sings HAVE A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS MAY ALL YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE WRAPPING I accept all liabilities for the demise of all who violate conditions 1 2 TO ALL WHO WILL STEAL THIS CHRISTMAS GIFT WARNING! A HORSE AWAKENS HEAR THE THUNDER OF THE HORSE FEEL THE TEARS OF THE MOTHER KNOW THE SORROW OF THE FATHER -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive EXPERIMENTAL RESEARCH From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 12:45:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29697; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:45:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:45:21 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:24:59 -0500 Subject: Re: ZPE and plasma ignition Message-ID: <19971225.154007.6398.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <19971222.220513.9006.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,17-19 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"ta_b31.0.sF7.VNieq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:04:42 -0800 tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) writes: >Thinking about Plasma devices like Moray, Correa, and Chernetskii. > >At the moment when a gas becomes ionized by dielectic breakdown, free >electrons become more numerous. Could it be that this sudden >increased population of free electrons quickly gain kinetic energy >from the ZPE fluctuations while the much more massive ions would not ? > Might this cause a momentary electron current gain ? > >Any thoughts ? Looking up a reference (Book: The Big Bang Never Happened....recommend reading it if you can find it) about plasma currents traveling in free space in a "helix". If I can find and conferm this, it may explain scalar effects occuring with discharges in strobe tubes, and why some have used neon bulbs a scalar detectors (Hey, does anyone know where I could find some details for such a detector?) Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 12:45:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29709; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:45:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:45:23 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:17:59 -0500 Subject: Re: HP O/U Circuit? Message-ID: <19971225.154007.6398.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199712240925.BAA31475@slave1.aa.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,13-14,19-20,23-24,27-28,30-38,40-42 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"M4G1k2.0.5G7.WNieq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 04:09:19 -0800 Jerry writes: >Hi Michael! > >That is a great story about the HP batteries being overcharged by >ambient >radio waves. I've heard stories about some kind of circuit that could > >power real loads (lamps, small motors) using only ambient EM. >------------------------------- George Wiseman had an article in Apr 96 issue of Extraordinary Science where he built a "Free Energy Accumulator" based on Tesla's Free Energy Receiver patent. It is basicly a flat metal plate "antenna Panel" (bigger and higher is better) with a transparent coating (ie, plastic) followed by a bridge rectifier, and then a 5000mfd 50 V cap. The antenna is of course connected to one AC input of the bridge, and the other AC input is connected to ground. Claims to charged the Cap to as high as 30 V. Anyone who has built a crystal radio knows that the ambient RF is in the mV range at best (unless you are on top of the tower!). Saw his website, has plans for sale for a few bucks. The article discussed variations in all aspects (antenna, circuits, and grounding methods) so perhaps his plans include improvments on this simple design. Seems the may be something to this, though I doubt you will get kW from it (at least portable KW). >These malfunctions have been assigned different classes, - fuel gauge >doesn't work while you are on the mobile phone (grade 1), (grade 2) >windshield wipers going off, (grade 3) electric seat repositioning by >itself as you drive, (grade 5) signal to stop left front wheel while >driving.......I plan to post this as it could be important....seeya! > > I would be interested in seeing more...part of my job includes resolving RFI problems! Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 14:04:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10690; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:04:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:04:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19971225210847.2e0f1d50@tsrcom.com> X-Sender: jameshartman@tsrcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 16:08:47 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: James Hartman Subject: Marry Christams & Happy New Year 1998 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id OAA10672 Resent-Message-ID: <"B56eq3.0.xc2.jXjeq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Have a Marry Christmas Jesus and a Happy New Year 1998 to all. Perhaps, if we can work togther this next year someone could play Santa will fly in an antigravity slay on Zero Point Energy. Then teleport into homes with gifts. What ever happens, Happy Hollidays. ---James E. Hartman (Hartmann) Tenha um christmas Jesus e um ano novo feliz 1998 casar-se a tudo. Talvez, se nós pudéssemos trabalhar o togther este ano seguinte alguém poderia jogar Santa voará em um antigravity slay na energia zero do ponto. Teleport então em repousos com presentes. O que acontece sempre, Hollidays feliz. --- James E. Hartman (Hartmann) Tenga Navidad Jesús y una Feliz Año Nuevo 1998 del casar a todos. Quizás, si podemos trabajar el togther el este año próximo alguien podría jugar Santa volará en un antigravedad mata en la energía cero de la punta. Entonces teleport en hogares con los regalos. Qué sucede siempre, Hollidays feliz. --- James E. Hartman (Hartmann) Avere un natale Jesus e un nuovo anno felice 1998 di spos a tutti. Forse, se possiamo lavorare il togther il questo anno prossimo qualcuno potrebbe giocare Santa volerà in un antigravità slay su energia zero del punto. Allora teleport nelle sedi con i regali. Che cosa accade mai, Hollidays felice. --- James E. Hartman (Hartmann) Haben Sie ein Verbindungsweihnachten Jesus und ein glückliches neues Jahr 1998 zu allen. Möglicherweise wenn wir togther dieses folgende Jahr bearbeiten können, könnte jemand Sankt spielen fliegt in ein Antigravitations slay auf nullpunktenergie. Teleport dann in Häuser mit Geschenken. Was überhaupt geschieht, glückliches Hollidays. --- James E. Hartman (Hartmann) Ayez Noël Jésus et une nouvelle année heureuse 1998 de mariage à tous. Peut-être, si nous pouvons travailler le togther la cette année prochaine quelqu'un pourrait jouer Santa volera dans un anti-gravité massacrent sur l'énergie nulle de point. Déplacez alors dans des maisons avec des cadeaux. Ce qui se produit jamais, Hollidays heureux. --- James E. Hartman (Hartmann) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 14:40:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16417; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:40:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:40:40 -0800 (PST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: steve-nyeoka@juno.com Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:52:02 -0800 Subject: Re: SMOT Message-ID: <19971225.143003.10062.0.tv@juno.com> References: <19971220.214052.11830.0.tv@juno.com> <19971224.140735.6486.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,9-43 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"wu4CB.0.P04.b3keq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I built several Mark I and Mark II ramps. No rollaraounds, but a few rollaways. I ordered one of Greg's kits, after spending so much time on it. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:55:14 -0500 steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) writes: > >On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 21:38:16 -0800 tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) writes: >> >>Greg, I literally spent hundreds of hours (ask my wife) last summer >>trying to get a roll around. I know what you must have gone through >>to make a reproducible SMOT kit. If you do manage to deliver >>rollaround SMOT kits it will be a great achievment indeed. >>Tim Vaughan > >I am in the process of building a smot ramp, this weekend I purchased >some PBC tubing. My first question to you is have you built a working >smot ramp itself? At this point I am not worrried about a roll around, >just a ball "rolling uphill". And if you got one to work, did you make >a mark 1 or mark 2 array? > >I looked at Greg's site, the plans to produce a roll around should >have a least two arrays (the second on the opposite side). If using >one array, I think another stack of magnets (or two) will give more >height and increasing a chance of rollaround. > >I may of mentioned this before, but from what I see, the smot makes >clever use of the inclined plane- so that the ball is pulled to an >elevation that a magnet directly pulling vertically would not be able >to do. This is importiant, as too strong of a magnetic field would not >allow the ball to escape. > >In the past I "designed on paper" many magnet motor concepts, one of >the basic design elements "in my opinion" is to get the ball/rotor/etc >to escape the magnetic field at a 90 degree angle from it's natural >path through the array, the smot HAS that design element. > >-just my two cents worth! > >Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 14:57:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12601; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:57:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:57:12 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 16:07:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Centrifugal Acceleration Gradient Message-ID: <19971225.175212.6398.4.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <34A17B4F.6905@keelynet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-8,10-13 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"VGv4v1.0.m43.7Jkeq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:14:55 -0800 Jerry writes: >Hi Folks! > >As long as the resistance encountered when restoring the weights snug >to the axle is less than the total weight applied on the descending side, >then it will self-run. Happy Holidays! >-- This is where i have considered using a tomi or smot-like device to shove the weights in and out. Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 14:57:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12666; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:57:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:57:25 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 16:34:34 -0500 Subject: Re: SMOT apology Message-ID: <19971225.175212.6398.5.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <33f09689.34a16b29@aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-12,14-15,18-19,26-27,30-31,34-40 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"9jy_O.0.n53.JJkeq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:05:59 EST MFergerson writes: > How 'bout this: wrap the SMOT (several SMOT's end-to-end?) in a >circle input >to output, the SMOT's vertical plane becoming the radial plane of the >circle >(track rimward)... the ball(s) attached to an axle free to rotate.. >make the >axle vertical to neutralize gravitational interference...the ball(s) >should >feel a constant acceleration around the circle.. One of my "paper designs" uses a spiral smot ramp that makes a complete circle. The "ball" is on a disk (but moves in and out). The exit part of the smot array is at the top (12 o'clock) position, and drops into the entry point array. This is the only point where gravity is used. The ball is actually on a lever or arm that is fixed behind the ball. One or two ball bearings or rollers on one/both sides allows the ball to ride a stationary cam to insure the ball stays in the array while the ball continues its path from the 3'oclock to 12 o'clock position (CCW rotation). At the end of the smot array 12 o'clock, the cam ends and the ball drops an inch or so into the start of the array, and is drawn all the way arround. I think for balance that an odd number of ball (ie, 3) need to be used, since when leaving the array the ball will be closer to the axle than the ball acending the other side (the reverse of the gravity wheel!). Note: I use the term ball to signify the ferrious (iron or steel) mass drawn through the smot array. A cylinder would be better, the most practical for prototypes would be a bolt. BTW, I was inspired by J.L. RMOG mark 2 on his site. Cheers.... Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 16:22:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22569; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 16:21:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 16:21:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199712260020.WAA05855@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:24:01 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: GIFT from farrter christmas Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <34A2302F.1D57@xtra.co.nz> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"FAY2n2.0.XW5.cYleq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Anyone managed to get this ascii picture understandable ? Marcelo ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:06:39 +1300 > From: Robbie Rowntree > Reply-to: rown@xtra.co.nz > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: GIFT from farrter christmas > COPYRIGHT OF Robbie Rowntree this document maybe > freely posted in its entirety only, you may correct any spelling > mistakkkok > WRAPPING > Merry Christmas fellow hunters of the elusive ZPE and to all fellow > Suns and Daughters of GOD > my gift from my Divine spirit I give to you comes with strict conditions > all who brake the conditions under which it is given shall be CURSED > and so to will the device > > 1 To the manager of manufacture of every working device constructed > one hours working income must be paid to the inventor known as Robbie > Rowntree born libra in the year of the horse in the town of Motueka in > the land of the long white cloud > > 2 All who use this device for war a very terrible CURSE shall befall > you > > for all who accept this gift I shall use there gift for seeding {SLOWLY} > the > ocean with iron , feeding photo plankton ,releasing oxygen and absorbing > carbon > 300,000 tons of fine iron powder will fix 1 years output of CO2 > pollution > and generate a vast bloom of food through out the entire food chain , > 1/2ton fe =7000 ton co2 c traped O freed thats a lot of life > how ever in LATE January 98 we pass through the debris fields of comet > Hail > Bopp and if it hails iron the ocean will be fed and this will not be > my task let us all hope it wont bop AS WELL > > GIFT > The plans i have drawn for the RRAMM E PUMP are untested and hence > incomplete > > it is a simple job to build using low tech materials I HOPE! > here is were I am up to s =iron flux bridges 10x10mm x > f = ferrite rod 9x70.mm =2 + 9x35mm > =4 > ssssssssss DC coils wound on f 2x2 .125 > enamel wires outside f f to > centre >< > f f centre fff= ferrite flat aerial rod > AC coil wound on f f slimmed down centre > section . > end ssssss ssssss > ssssssfffffffffss side view folded f N S > f f M > out f S f N f f > M f f N R S > f f M R > f f w f f fw /\ > f ffBffffBff f f > fffffBBBBBBBOBBBBBBBBB RR > f f w f f > fw \/ f S R N > f f M R > f N f S f f > M f > f S N f f M > ssssss ssssss sssssssfffffffffss > f f > f f B=brass rocker flat > slots cut fit f f fffffff =AC coil > fat wound, fw =wings top > sssssssssss and bottom to enhance cross over flux > when ffffff is high or low > O=threaded rod sharpened for needle bearings 4 nuts to hold brass > rocker > R=neodymium magnets rods and disc ,rods toped with ferrite rod and all > wound to act as enhancing coil which are in repulsion to centre disc, > just strong enough to stop contact > /\ \/= counter balance rubber stoppers and direction of travel > SN and M are 4 stacks of 5 13x10x4 mm frig magnets, test for best if > these are chosen > scale up or down to suit the important dimensions are keep it square on > inside ,with space for AC coil and inside return flux > dimension through DC coils {pillars may need to be tapered ><}and sum > of ssssss should be even, shoulders longer for mounting and adjustment > The cycle goes like this head@feet short, flux flows O O through side > pillars power to battery, ffffffff AC moves down from last enhancement > coil pulses, O > pillars short , head@feet > flux flows power to > battery ,bottom O > magnets flux flows through ffffff centre AC coil power out enhanced by > top magnets flux across top fw flux wings short cut , bottom > enhancement coil pulse , top may have usable output ,fffffffffff moves > up toward neutral > short head@feet flux flows O O through side pillars power to > battery,fffffffffff reaches neutral side pillars short flux takes big > O head@feet flux flows power to battery ............. > fffffffffff may need to be just back out of gap so that appropriate > wings are clear of flux during travel > arc > mercury-wetted relays for switching enhancing coils not to shore about > the rest > as my construction progresses my under standing of what is requited and > what will work changes > for instance I can see some problems with switching flux as this > requires a changeing flux > HELP please all contributions toward a working ou pump are granted > 1000 hours wages if so desired, > plus all the power and freedom one can dream of, use it wisely. > As Bingo Crosbie still sings HAVE A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS > MAY ALL YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE > > > WRAPPING > I accept all liabilities for the demise of all who violate conditions 1 > 2 > TO ALL WHO WILL STEAL THIS CHRISTMAS GIFT WARNING! A HORSE AWAKENS > HEAR THE THUNDER OF THE HORSE FEEL THE TEARS OF THE > MOTHER KNOW THE SORROW OF THE > FATHER > -- > **RRAMM** > Good Waves Robbie Rowntree mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz > Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive > EXPERIMENTAL RESEARCH > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 17:21:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28342; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:21:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:21:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:20:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712260120.RAA04085@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Marry Christams & Happy New Year 1998 Resent-Message-ID: <"ojYTs2.0.hw6.JQmeq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com James E. Hartman wrote: >Have a Marry Christmas Jesus and a Happy New Year 1998 to all. Perhaps, if >we can work togther this next year someone could play Santa will fly in an >antigravity slay on Zero Point Energy. Then teleport into homes with gifts. > >What ever happens, Happy Hollidays. On the new video "Free Energy: The Race to Zero Point" from Lightworks: www.lightworksav.com there is some new video of John Hutchinson's latest anti-gravity demonstrations. His next video from the "New Energy Inventors Series," "Vol 2 John Hutchinson:" will be out in a couple of weeks. Tom Beardon, Joseph Newman, Troy Reed and Dennis Lee also have video's coming out. Highly recommended. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Peace on Earth, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 19:03:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03641; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 19:02:58 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 19:02:58 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19971225.154007.6398.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <19971222.220513.9006.2.tv@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:01:45 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: ZPE and plasma ignition Resent-Message-ID: <"-t1y-.0.ou.Xvneq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 3:24 PM -0500 12/24/97, Stephen L Heckman wrote: >neon bulbs a scalar detectors (Hey, does anyone know where I could find >some details for such a detector?) http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/neondet.asc http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/diagrams/NEONDET.GIF r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 20:45:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10671; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:45:41 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:45:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:39:50 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Xg3VM.0.dc2.oPpeq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What are all of these plasma experiments and what could they be used for? I'm very interested in plasma and I'd like to know all about how it works, but I don't have the money to go out and buy books. Any experiments that you could do in a decent garage would be nice. Theory is plenty good too. Thanks. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 22:34:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17513; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:33:53 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:33:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:32:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712260632.WAA09077@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq@blue.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: SMOT newbies (was SMOT apology) Resent-Message-ID: <"NNO_q2.0.WH4.E_qeq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com First, the subject line is *not* meant to be derogatory in any way. Just shorthand. Hi Stephen Heckman, MFergerson (and others?): You're getting into discussions which were covered this past Spring. You might save yourselves a lot of email and experiment time by reading the archives of freenrg-l and vortex-l. I'd suggest April '97 thru July '97; look for keywords "ramp" in earlier dates and then "SMOT" later on. BTW, whether the SMOT idea is headed for the dustbin or for the stars, it would be useful to have an archive of just the SMOT discussions. That could help others keep from wasting time if it's a dead end, or document the whole bit if it's positive history. I have quite a bit of it, though probably not all. Could e-mail the lot to anyone who wants it; however it's in Microsoft Mail format and probably in the megabytes. Size is no problem on this end, but I'd pity anyone receiving it by modem. Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 26 12:10:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11341; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:09:29 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:09:29 -0800 (PST) From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT newbies (was SMOT apology) Message-ID: <19971226.151044.7391.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199712260632.WAA09077@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-11,13-14,18-22,27-29 Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:07:36 EST Resent-Message-ID: <"pMurV1.0.6n2.ux0fq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:32:50 -0800 (PST) Dan Quickert writes: >First, the subject line is *not* meant to be derogatory in any way. >Just shorthand. No offence taken : ), came on the list in July so I qualify as a "newbie" >Hi Stephen Heckman, MFergerson (and others?): >would be useful to have an archive of just the SMOT discussions. That >could I can't access the freenrg or vortex archives (the one's that are ZIP'ed) with the machine I use to surf the net (I use the public library). > I have quite a bit of it, though probably not all. Could e-mail the lot to anyone who >wants it; however it's in Microsoft Mail format and probably in the megabytes. Size is >no problem on this end, but I'd pity anyone receiving it by modem. > >Dan Quickert > > Would be interested, could I snail mail you some blank disks? Or perhaps you could forward just some pertiant files from the archives? I am looking into using the smot in a circular form, which will require expanding it's size beyond the 5 banks of magnets. Anything applicable would be appreciated. Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 26 12:10:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16956; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:10:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:10:29 -0800 From: MFergerson Message-ID: <79d3698b.34a40f0d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:09:47 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT newbies (was SMOT apology) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"2OCtj.0.r84.py0fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dan Quickert Wrote: :First, the subject line is *not* meant to be derogatory in any way. Just :shorthand. : :Hi Stephen Heckman, MFergerson (and others?): : :You're getting into discussions which were covered this past Spring. You :might save yourselves a lot of email and experiment time by reading the :archives of freenrg-l and vortex-l. I'd suggest April '97 thru July '97; :look for keywords "ramp" in earlier dates and then "SMOT" later on. That's what I get for joining the list late...I never know if I've noticed something obvious to just me, or obvious to everyone. I'll try to keep the "gee whiz, look at this idea!" down to a minimum. :BTW, whether the SMOT idea is headed for the dustbin or for the stars, it :would be useful to have an archive of just the SMOT discussions. That could :help others keep from wasting time if it's a dead end, or document the whole :bit if it's positive history. I have quite a bit of it, though probably not :all. Could e-mail the lot to anyone who wants it; however it's in Microsoft :Mail format and probably in the megabytes. Size is no problem on this end, :but I'd pity anyone receiving it by modem. I've already begun storing the more interesting (to me) posts in my fave places file under ZPE. I'm sure others are also, but a central bank of all the data, not just the stuff one or some of us find interesting, is a great idea. Speaking of Microsoft Mail, I've received a few DL's in that format and can't figure out how to open them. Help, please? Can stuff in that format be zipped to e-mail faster? Mark L. Fergerson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 26 14:13:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA32531; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:12:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:12:57 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: <84681734.34a42bc4@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:12:18 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: New interesting but simple o/u design, need quickfield Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"AKiMW1.0.7y7.dl2fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com To all: On my home page I have a new idea for an o/u generator that I believe is very unique, but I need to see a quickfield simulation to get started. I am having trouble getting the software to convert when I download it from Greg Watson's site. But even when I do convert it, I will need some time to learn how to use it. The design consist of a circle in an ellipse (all one piece of ferrite) and the path that the flux takes as the rotor turns looks to be very interesting. The coils would be placed on the outer most part of the ellipse (left and right in drawing where bend is the most pronounced). The coils would not be needed in the quickfield simulation. One thing I would like to look into is, after a simulation of the layout with solid ferrite, is a simulation of the layout with the material where the coils would be, a metal that will stay magnetized till the flux flow is reversed in the ellipse by the rotor turning 180 degrees. The area in the ellipse that is a material that stays magnetized is shown in the first drawing, butch50.gif . The remainder of the ellipse is ferrite. I think the flux behavior would be very interesting in both layouts. The web site shows the rotor on different positions thru 180 degrees of rotation. Any volunteers till I can get up to speed on the software? I would appreciate it greatly. Thanks, Butch LaFonte Generator Home Page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 26 18:27:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00465; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:27:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:27:08 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Plasma [was Unidentified subject!] Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:03:39 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: <7HGp0UQy8AFK092yn@csonline.net> In-Reply-To: Lines: 16 Resent-Message-ID: <"G-T5D2.0.A7.xT6fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >What are all of these plasma experiments and what could they be used for? >I'm very interested in plasma and I'd like to know all about how it >works, but I don't have the money to go out and buy books. Any >experiments that you could do in a decent garage would be nice. Theory is >plenty good too. Thanks. http://www.globalserve.net/~lambdac/ Lots of theory on Abnormal Glow in Plasma as energy. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 26 18:50:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02911; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:50:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:50:20 -0800 Message-ID: <34A46AEC.69AD@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:41:48 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GIFT from farrter christmas References: <199712260020.WAA05855@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N92GM.0.Nj.gp6fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Marcelo Puhl wrote: > > Anyone managed to get this ascii picture understandable ? > > Marcelo > sorry sliped on some Raindear crap with the ascii ove AACHOOw! tryed do fix it with ..... ies AAARCHOO! seem to have cort some sort of flue thats AACHOO! yyy Im late this year I can TRY TO post detailed 2D CAD, DRAWINGBOARD VLM files or DFX if some one wishes to put these http://www.drawingboard.com/info.html in there pages.Microsoft seem to be totatly against me as they regularly crash my machine three times when writing up the gift Im sorry your gift was not ment to be a puzzel, more a chalenange with a great reward its the only thing i have to give as the multi nationals seem to have made me redundant and unemployed with there rubbish and its getting to warm for the Raindear, yes santa ,AAChhOOO!,go back to sleep my love. hope it makes it this time ,Was going to leave as is with a offer of 1000 free RRAMM E CURSE FREE PUMP stickers to who could untangle my rush job wellbye for now AAARRCHOOWW !oh snooffit ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:06:39 +1300 > > From: Robbie Rowntree > > Reply-to: rown@xtra.co.nz > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: GIFT from farrter christmas > > > COPYRIGHT OF Robbie Rowntree this document maybe > > freely posted in its entirety only, you may correct any spelling > > mistakkkok > > WRAPPING > > Merry Christmas fellow hunters of the elusive ZPE and to all fellow > > Suns and Daughters of GOD > > my gift from my Divine spirit I give to you comes with strict conditions > > all who brake the conditions under which it is given shall be CURSED > > and so to will the device > > > > 1 To the manager of manufacture of every working device constructed > > one hours working income must be paid to the inventor known as Robbie > > Rowntree born libra in the year of the horse in the town of Motueka in > > the land of the long white cloud > > > > 2 All who use this device for war a very terrible CURSE shall befall > > you > > > > for all who accept this gift I shall use there gift for seeding {SLOWLY} the ocean with iron , feeding photo plankton ,releasing oxygen and absorbing carbon > > 300,000 tons of fine iron powder will fix 1 years output of CO2 > > pollution > > and generate a vast bloom of food through out the entire food chain , > > 1/2ton fe =7000 ton co2 c traped O freed thats a lot of extra life > > how ever in LATE January 98 we pass through the debris fields of comet > > Hail > > Bopp and if it hails iron the ocean will be fed and this will not be > > my task let us all hope it wont bop AS WELL > > > > GIFT > > The plans i have drawn for the RRAMM E PUMP are untested and hence > > incomplete > > > > it is a simple job to build using low tech materials I HOPE! > > here is were I am up to s =iron flux bridges 10x10mm x > > f = ferrite rod 9x70.mm =2 + 9x35mm > > =4 > > ssssssssss DC coils wound on f 2x2 .125 > > f f > .................... f f centre fff= ferrite flat aerial rod................... f f slimmed down centre> > section . ...... end........ssssss ssssss...ssssssfffffffffss.. side view folded............f N S f...f M > > out f S f N f...f M f ..................f N R S f...f M R > >...............f f w f...f fw /\ > > f ffBffffBff f...f fffffBBBBBBBOBBBBBBBBB RR > > f f w f...f fw \/ ..................f S R N f...f M R > > f N f S f...f M f > > f S N f...f M > > ssssss ssssss ssssssfffffffffss > > f f > > f f B=brass rocker flat slots cut fit f f fffffff =AC coil fat wound, fw =wings top sssssssssss and bottom to enhance cross over flux when ffffff is high or low > > O=threaded rod sharpened for needle bearings 4 nuts to hold brass > > rocker > > R=neodymium magnets rods and disc ,rods toped with ferrite rod and all > > wound to act as enhancing coil which are in repulsion to centre disc, > > just strong enough to stop contact > > /\ \/= counter balance rubber stoppers and direction of travel > > SN and M are 4 stacks of 5 13x10x4 mm frig magnets, test for best if > > these are chosen > > scale up or down to suit the important dimensions are keep it square on > > inside ,with space for AC coil and inside return flux > > dimension through DC coils {pillars may need to be tapered ><}and sum > > of ssssss should be even, shoulders longer for mounting and adjustment > > The cycle goes like this head@feet short, flux flows O O through side > > pillars power to battery, ffffffff AC moves down from last enhancement coil pulses, O pillars short , head@feet flux flows power to battery ,bottom O magnets flux flows through ffffff centre AC coil power out enhanced by > > top magnets flux across top fw flux wings short cut , bottom > > enhancement coil pulse , top may have usable output ,fffffffffff moves > > up toward neutral > > short head@feet flux flows O O through side pillars power to > > battery,fffffffffff reaches neutral side pillars short flux takes big O head@feet flux flows power to battery ............. > > fffffffffff may need to be just back out of gap so that appropriate > > wings are clear of flux during travel > > arc > > mercury-wetted relays for switching enhancing coils not to shure about > > the rest > > as my construction progresses my under standing of what is requited and > > what will work changes > > for instance I can see some problems with switching flux as this > > requires a changeing flux > > HELP please all contributions toward a working ou pump are granted > > 1000 hours wages if so desired, > > plus all the power and freedom one can dream of, use it wisely. > > As Bingo Crosbie still sings HAVE A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS > > MAY ALL YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE > > > > **************************** WRAPPING*********************************** I accept all liabilities for the demise of all who violate conditions 1 2 > > TO ALL WHO WILL STEAL THIS CHRISTMAS GIFT WARNING! A HORSE AWAKENS > > HEAR THE THUNDER OF THE HORSE FEEL THE TEARS OF THE MOTHER KNOW THE SORROW OF THE FATHER **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 08:43:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27234; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:41:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:41:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A5311D.15A2@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 11:47:25 -0500 From: "Robert W. Gray" Reply-To: rwgray@servtech.com Organization: P.D.Structures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Improvements.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"F6UHd2.0.Of6.f-Ifq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi SMOT fans... I've been looking into SMOT and I think I have come up with several small improvements which would greatly increase its performance. I don't know if folks 'round here have thought of these changes before or not. Sorry if its all old news. You may use any of these ideas as you see fit, but if you use them in any *for-profit* project, I would expect to be included in the for-profit compensation. Anyway... 1) Replace the Aluminum "U" track with a tube. Why? A) With the "U" track, you have 2 points of contact. With the tube (aluminum or clear hard plastic if you want to see the ball) you have only 1 point of contact so less friction. B) The 1 point of contact gives the maximum lever arm. That is, for 1 revolution of the ball, the ball will travel further along the track with 1 point of contact then 2 points of contact using the "U" track. (I don't know if this is really an improvement.) C) The ball can not fall off/out of the track if a tube is used. This means the ball can travel further into the strong magnetic field region even when slightly miss-aligned. When I was playing around with SMOT "U" tracks, I found that the ball too easily jumped the track. So get rid of the track. 2) The track should be curved "upward". (Best shape to be determined.) Why? A) At the beginning, with the ball in the openning of SMOT, there is a weak force which just gets the ball going. Half-way up the track, the force is greater, so the slop of the track/tube could be greater. And 3/4 of the way along the track/tube the force is greater still, so the slope of the track/tube can be greater still, etc... *If* the straight track works, this curved shaped track should allow the ball to obtain a greater height. (And height is what we're after, mostly.) 3) The end of the track/tube should have an "elbow" tube pointing down as the exit. The ball should not just come to the end of the track/tube and be expected to fall down. Why? A) This would guide the ball and help prevent it from getting "caught" by the magnets. Because the ball's forward momentum can be used to "push" the ball down by following the elbow of the tube (which is pointing down) the ball's exit can be further into the strong field region. That is, where before you had to end the track because the ball would get captured by the magnets (the magnetic force strong enough to lift the ball) now the ball can go a little way into this region. The forward momentum will get converted into "down" momentum when the ball rolls around the inside of the tube elbow and thus escape the magnetic field. 4) The ball should not be allowed to simply fall down. Why? A) Because you are loosing a lot of gravity potential energy (mgh) which could be converted into very useful "forward" kinetic energy (1/2 mv^2). You should use another tube to change the *direction* of the falling ball at the end of its fall from going down to moving forward. This tube would be "L" shaped but the 90 degree corner of the "L" should be a smooth curve. This would allow the falling ball to "shoot" into the 2nd SMOT rather than to start from an almost dead stop all over again. Well, those are my improvements to SMOT. Again, *IF* SMOT barely works today, these changes should improve the performance to a point where it is truly obvious that it works. Let me know your results if you try these suggestions. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 09:02:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07068; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 09:01:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 09:01:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971227124047.009a22f0@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:40:51 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Calling Stefan Hartmann Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xGsB11.0.Gk1.yHJfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:39 AM 12/22/97 +0100, you wrote: >At 03:31 21.12.1997 -0500, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >>Bill writes: >> >>>In recent times people have acted as if Watson's selling of >>>kits is questionable behavior. Why? >> >>I'd imagine people are beginning to wonder what happened to him. >>I've only talked to him thru the list, but you know he >>used to be pretty active... The questionable behavior being >>not the selling of the product but the state of uncertainty >>he has left his clients in. >> >>>Go read the >>>messages and watch how it developed over time. >> >>Please Bill, not the messages again, anything but that :-O >> >>KPN >> > >Stay tuned for an Xmas announcement from Greg... > >Regards, Stefan. > > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net > Well, what happened? KPN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 10:12:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05444; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:12:30 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:12:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971227181101.19650.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.19.142.152] From: "Marc Jacobs" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:11:01 PST Resent-Message-ID: <"wMab_1.0.zK1.CKKfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have been silently watching the SMOT story for several months. Since Greg quit posting I decided to try to get a firmer grasp on exactly what Greg said and what he claimed. In order to do this I have compiled, from the archives (I have had to mix vortex and freenrg since the complete freenrg archives are incomplete), all of his posts since April 1 and have catagorized them by date (in html). Because of the recent minor resurgence in SMOT related questions and comments I have decided to post what I have completed. Therefore I have uploaded Greg's posts from April through June. The remaining months will be posted within a week. I consider this premature since I am working on a synopsis of the more salient points that Greg made and I am also writing a paper on what I think really occured during the SMOT saga. These posts can be found at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7389 My preliminary conclusions can be intimated from the following comment. I have searched through every page of Greg's web site and was reluctant to find a single photograph of any machine that he made. He has photos from Jean-Louis and Rick M. but nothing that was built by him. He obviously has the capability of scanning images as is apparent from the photos of his family and cat. Why not show the world an image of closed loop SMOT that ran for 3.5 hours Greg? More to come... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 12:20:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA31072; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:20:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:20:05 -0800 Message-ID: <34A57EC6.4DE9@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:18:46 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: deadsmot@hotmail.com Subject: Re: SMOT References: <19971227181101.19650.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1CFQQ1.0.Kb7.pBMfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! With regard to this new site recently posted about the SMOT saga; http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7389 The following quote in my opinion says it all; > Where did the energy of its motion go? The energy wasn't destroyed, it > WAS TURNED into heat because of friction. The Second Law is the reason > that we need the huge infrastructure of the electrical grid, and gas > stations and all the other sources of energy we must continually buy. > But there is a small cadre of lunatics out on the fringes of science > that believe that maybe The Second Law is wrong, maybe, just MAYBE > ENERGY CAN BE CREATED and if so humanity can have a free lunch. Energy is CONVERTED in every free energy device (non-conventional which does not include thermal, radioactive, solar, wind, water, etc.) claim that I have ever seen. That conversion can come from gravity, magnetism or flatout aether/zpe (which creates gravity and magnetism). Therefore, aether/zpe is converted to a different form of energy, not created. Aether being omnipresent means it can be tapped anywhere without need for a central grid. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 19:31:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA21220; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:30:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:30:23 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:16:50 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Additional info.on LaFonte generator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"wXw13.0.RB5.BVSfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Anyone looking at my design might want to imagine only one coil at a time firing every 180 degrees. Also a balance system can be use if needed.(see Werjefelt papers on overunity homepage in updates area for balance system info.) Overunity homepage Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 19:34:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA21769; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:32:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:32:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A5E3AB.670A@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:29:15 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Schappeller Glowing Magnetism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8ioYJ.0._J5.QXSfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gnorts! It was just brought to my attention that a file called Searl3.htm somehow disappeared from my server. I have recommended this file to several people with no one ever complaining it was not found...strange, elves I guess. http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/searl3.htm Anyway, a fellow from Russia has been emailing his ideas about plasma and the closest thing I know of is Schappellers claims of a glowing magnetism which he produced using a special electret sphere. He also claimed to have developed flying machines he calls 'ether ships' which had properties much like those claimd by Searl and Hamel. A researcher from Holland recently finished his book on John Keely. It will be published by Luminet Press in February 1998 in America. During his combing of libraries and research material in Europe, he came upon all kinds of original documents and photos pertaining to the research of Karl Schappeller. A book is being written which should be quite an eye-opener since most of the material has never been published. Much like Gerry Vassilatos' interesting book 'Lost Science' from Borderlands, this book should provide much more useful detail than has ever been seen about Schappeller. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 19:36:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13594; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:35:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:35:36 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:52:28 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New design for o/u, for your information Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_883277551_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"dqjWD.0.GK3.7aSfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_883277551_boundary Content-ID: <0_883277551@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII For more info. (5 drawings and text) see LaFonte Generator Home Page Thanks, Butch --part0_883277551_boundary Content-ID: <0_883277551@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: image/gif; name="BUTCH50.GIF" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: inline R0lGODlh8gLVAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8Hut1oS13nOt1nut 3pS93nu13oy13oy93pzG3s7e797n76XG573W563O56XO5+fv9+fn75y93nu11nOt3sbe77XO 5/f39+/v94S93u/397XW59bn78bW55zG587n773W797v797n997v9+f393O13rXW75y959bn 99be773e78bW7/f3/5S955TG3rXO763G5/f////39/f/987e987n963W55TG5//3/63O75zO 54y95///963W74y154S156XO7wQEBAgICAwMDBERERYWFhwcHCIiIikpKVVVVU1NTUJCQjk5 Of98gP9QUNYAk8zs/+/Wxufn1q2pkDMAAGYAAJkAAMwAAAAzADMzAGYzAJkzAMwzAP8zAABm ADNmAGZmAJlmAMxmAP9mAACZADOZAGaZAJmZAMyZAP+ZAADMADPMAGbMAJnMAMzMAP/MAGb/ AJn/AMz/AAAAMzMAM2YAM5kAM8wAM/8AMwAzMzMzM2YzM5kzM8wzM/8zMwBmMzNmM2ZmM5lm M8xmM/9mMwCZMzOZM2aZM5mZM8yZM/+ZMwDMMzPMM2bMM5nMM8zMM//MMzP/M2b/M5n/M8z/ M///MwAAZjMAZmYAZpkAZswAZv8AZgAzZjMzZmYzZpkzZswzZv8zZgBmZjNmZmZmZplmZsxm 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bdUHvVNH9dVKdc8+zdZm5VYCpdXnwFRfNVNZLU92VU9xLdNoLdViFdV6ncxsdVNznJB39iXR c9VSRqVWSOVVgDVXYwVSPDXYeFVNYd3Wbh1XXdVXec3X6hxSL0VTd83YT7VYib1YblxMHbVN ghXRGnVYiB3ZGBVYlO3YdTVYdCUrddVWljXSZW3X4aTO7dTUWsVYm/3Ug8XKfw3XblTKSVVT 37zK3oxUZM1SpO3Sw0xU2rTTqxRTuKRaPWXLL/1SpU0oCuVU0QTLorVa+DRabSLbpW1Ks+VU ziTTsiVbpk3Wtz1bt9XZoQXKBjxKpKS3nfRCvM1bLbFJ6+tbvx1cwi1cwz1cxE1cxV1cxm1c x31cyI1cyZ1cyq1cy71czM1czd1czu1c8gsIAAA7 --part0_883277551_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 21:33:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29552; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:31:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:31:53 -0800 Message-ID: <34A5E41E.3F809FA@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 18:31:14 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: Re: SMOT/conservation of energy References: <19971227181101.19650.qmail@hotmail.com> <34A57EC6.4DE9@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ekc0B3.0.aD7.8HUfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Really? how do you know that energy can't be created (first law) and that energy can't flow uphill? (second law) How can you or anyone possibly know that? You CAN show that it is possible for it to not happen, but you can NOT show that it can not happen. (proving a negative) You may believe that it can not be created, and you may have people that are arrogant enough to say it is a "LAW OF PHYSICS" that it cannot happen, but how do they know that it can not happen? They MADE the law, a law of physicists not of PHYSICS. That is NOT to say that they could not have been right with such a law (belief) but they are in fact wrong in this case. Unless they have been told by GOD or know it ALL themselves (and they seem to take this view that they posses infinite knowledge) they can not say what can not happen only what can or what does not happen in a particular case. They have given it an unbreakable quality by saying "IT IS A LAW OF NATURE/PHYICS/THE UNIVERSE" so it is not possible to do otherwise, It is then stronger than most/all religious beliefs (in fact it is a RELIGIOUS belief) so that people (most) don't even think to question NATURE, not realizing that nature has no such law at all only scientists, Who thought it was so because they had no things to say otherwise (and ignored what they did) because they like to set limits (steering in air, heavier than air craft, speed of sound, flight to the moon, sending voice down wires and many many more) and so as it is hard to get a good reproducible effect to create energy (anyone want to disagree?) we have the law of conservation of energy. Jerry, do you now see that if you believe in the law's of conservation of energy, fine but it is YOUR belief and you cannot say that it is not possible (to create energy) because it is a belief of yours and you can never prove it, however I do believe that energy can be created and can prove it as I am proving a positive. Jerry, so what is your view now on the law of the physics called the law of conservation of energy I & II ??? You should realize that as there IS "energy" the "law of conservation of energy" (that says it cannot be created) is self contradictory. John Berry Jerry wrote: > Hi Folks! > > With regard to this new site recently posted about the SMOT saga; > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7389 > > The following quote in my opinion says it all; > > > Where did the energy of its motion go? The energy wasn't destroyed, it > > WAS TURNED into heat because of friction. The Second Law is the reason > > that we need the huge infrastructure of the electrical grid, and gas > > stations and all the other sources of energy we must continually buy. > > But there is a small cadre of lunatics out on the fringes of science > > that believe that maybe The Second Law is wrong, maybe, just MAYBE > > ENERGY CAN BE CREATED and if so humanity can have a free lunch. > > Energy is CONVERTED in every free energy device (non-conventional > which does not include thermal, radioactive, solar, wind, water, etc.) > claim that I have ever seen. That conversion can come from gravity, > magnetism or flatout aether/zpe (which creates gravity and magnetism). > > Therefore, aether/zpe is converted to a different form of energy, not > created. Aether being omnipresent means it can be tapped anywhere > without need for a central grid. > -- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 21:45:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA30824; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:45:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:45:32 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19971227181101.19650.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:03:09 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"lr-Rx.0.HX7.wTUfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Marc - Here's one for you. How many people out there are committing hoaxes and frauds in the name of 'free energy'? Ok. Now, how many reductionist debunkers are there out there committing hoaxes and frauds in order to 'save' the rest of us and teach us of our 'gullibility'? Far more of the latter, from what I've seen. Fewest of all it seems, are those who are actually willing to do a little bit of work at digging up some evidence in a given category before arriving at a conclusion one way or the other. I see you have inferred on the site that the SMOT saga is based on the ridiculous create-energy-from-nothing-not-even-ZPE category. In all those messages you're massing for posting on your site, can you produce any that make or even imply that particular claim for the SMOT - not just by GW, but by anyone? How about any other device or system discussed here - by anyone? I honestly don't think I've ever seen such a claim *except* when it's alleged by the debunkers to have been made by free energy people. Such debunking only serves to quash legitimate interest and research, not to 'help' the gullible or anyone else. We all could gain from a having a little more rationality and science and a little less presumption and herd mentality. I agree with you on one point. If this is a fraud, and it certainly does appear now to be just that, it is indeed a "particularly nasty" one. He even made use of our feelings on the occasion of the death of a friend to get an extension of credibility for his claims, saying he would reveal all because of it, or words to that effect. As you have said there has been not one photograph or iota of evidence whatsoever that he ever had a working device. And while there are a few claims of level rollaways in addition to a plausable conventional mechanism for such anomalous behavior, there have been no additional independent replications or verification of those claims made with those individual devices. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 22:09:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04788; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:09:06 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:09:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A60899.5CBD@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:06:49 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Berry CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT/conservation of energy References: <19971227181101.19650.qmail@hotmail.com> <34A57EC6.4DE9@keelynet.com> <34A5E41E.3F809FA@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lxljL2.0.jA1.0qUfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi John et al! John Berry wrote; > Unless they have been told by GOD or know it ALL themselves (and they > seem to take this view that they posses infinite knowledge) they can > not say what can not happen only what can or what does not happen in a > particular case. God didn't tell me. (They?), I and no one I know has claimed infinite knowledge. Speaking of circular arguments....and completely off topic from the subject of whether energy can be created or as I said quite clearly, CONVERTED from aether/zpe. > Jerry, do you now see that if you believe in the law's of conservation > of energy, fine but it is YOUR belief and you cannot say that it is not > possible (to create energy) because it is a belief of yours and you can > never prove it, however I do believe that energy can be created and can > prove it as I am proving a positive. This is what Jerry SAID; > Energy is CONVERTED.... I'm looking for proof and a means that aether/zpe can be converted and tapped. Seems simple enough to understand. All such arguments as this troll is attempting to create, are in my opinion, irrelevant to that goal of HOW TO. Create and convert have two quite different meanings. No need for such animosity and there will be no further engagement if it continues. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 23:47:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08822; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:46:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:46:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A61F7F.44EC@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 01:44:31 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT/conservation of energy References: <19971227181101.19650.qmail@hotmail.com> <34A57EC6.4DE9@keelynet.com> <34A5E41E.3F809FA@ihug.co.nz> <34A60899.5CBD@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vJit-2.0.l92.ZFWfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi! A misunderstanding as to the term create as opposed to convert. All resolved off list....see Bill, we CAN TOO play together.... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 28 08:04:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15250; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 08:04:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 08:04:07 -0800 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:03:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712281603.KAA17549@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: SMOT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"oXwBZ.0.6k3.sXdfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick M. wrote: >Here's one for you. How many people out there are committing hoaxes >and frauds in the name of 'free energy'? Ok. Now, how many >reductionist debunkers are there out there committing hoaxes and >frauds in order to 'save' the rest of us and teach us of our >'gullibility'? Far more of the latter, from what I've seen. snip Rick, This is a very interesting assertion. Please specifically name these reductionist debunker perpetrators you've identified and their hoaxes and frauds they have committed to 'save' the rest of us and teach us of our 'gullibility'. Thanks, RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 28 17:02:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26453; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:52:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:52:31 -0800 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Calling Stefan Hartmann, Greg Watson phone call.. Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:48:36 +0100 Message-Id: <19971229014836.5f7541b6.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"Evamp1.0.DT6.DHlfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >>>Bill writes: >>> >>>>In recent times people have acted as if Watson's selling of >>>>kits is questionable behavior. Why? >>> >>>I'd imagine people are beginning to wonder what happened to him. >>>I've only talked to him thru the list, but you know he >>>used to be pretty active... The questionable behavior being >>>not the selling of the product but the state of uncertainty >>>he has left his clients in. >>> >>>>Go read the >>>>messages and watch how it developed over time. >>> >>>Please Bill, not the messages again, anything but that :-O >>> >>>KPN >>> >> >>Stay tuned for an Xmas announcement from Greg... >> >>Regards, Stefan. >> >Well, what happened? > >KPN Hi, as Greg Watson has not hold his promises until now to reveal his coming projects the last days over Christmas what he told me in a recent phone conversation, I will now tell the people over here, what he told me. He told me, that the shipping of the SMOT units was to be deceided by the new DMEC company he has formed and that it was more to be delayed by bookkeeping reasons to setup the new company , than technical reasons. He told me, that he does not want to hurt the current power companies and thus to put many people out of work and so his new company deceided to build a "remote area power generator" for 3rd world applications, there where poor people are off the grid anyway and needed power to cook lunch and heat their homes. So they want to go now for a 1 KWatt unit based on his RMOG design. He said, the PMOD is too complicated, because his recent experiments indicated that there are switch times required less than 20 nsec or so... He told me, that he wanted to setup a new WEB site called DMEC.com or something simular and also wants to publish all his findings on his way to scale up the effects and develop the 1 KW unit. He told me, that they had their first DMEC board meeting on Dec. 23rd 1997 and afterwards he wanted to announce it on his current web site. That is why I put my Dec. 24th update on overunity.com/update.htm with a link to his site, but so far he has not updated his site.... He also told me, so far only about 3 persons and his family have seen his cloosed loop running devices. He also wanted to publish photos and videos AFTER he would have shipped the SMOT units.. Maybe it is time, that also some of the other SMOT order people will call Greg and ask, what has happened ? Please let us all know. Thanks! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 28 17:48:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02347; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 17:38:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 17:38:54 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ZPE and plasma ignition Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:16:11 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <19971222.220513.9006.2.tv@juno.com> <19971225.154007.6398.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19971225.154007.6398.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Lines: 68 Resent-Message-ID: <"_MgnZ3.0.Ua.iylfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:04:42 -0800 tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) writes: >>Thinking about Plasma devices like Moray, Correa, and Chernetskii. >Looking up a reference (Book: The Big Bang Never Happened....recommend >reading it if you can find it) about plasma currents traveling in free >space in a "helix". If I can find and conferm this, it may explain scalar >effects occuring with discharges in strobe tubes, and why some have used >neon bulbs a scalar detectors (Hey, does anyone know where I could find >some details for such a detector?) It is the Abnormal Glow region that is purported to have the Interesting Effects. | Keelynet Message 134 DATE/TIME: 03/26/91 11:14 | From : BOB PADDOCK | To : ALL | Folder : A, "Public Mail" | | We can pick up a bottled plasma source at Radio Shack for less than a | buck, ie. a Neon Glow Lamp. | | In 73 Magazine there was an article "A New Type of 10 GHz Receiver - | Use it or lose it" by Norman S. Kopeika, Ph.D, Dept. of Electrical | Engineering Ben-Gurion University of the Negev Beer Sheva, Israel. & | Earl Rubin 4Z4TJ, 12 Rotem St., Neve-Noy Beer Sheva, Israel. The | article was on pages 222-223, but all I have is a Xerox copy of it | and there is not month or year, I think it was around 1976 or 1977. [Sept 1978 in 73, and Ham Radio Feb 1980.] | | The 73 article tests may Neon bulbs for use as a X-Band (10 GHz | receiver), the A059-2 being the most sensitive (40 uV), the NE-84 the | worst (137 uV). The most common type the NE-2U came in at 77 uV. | | Other references: | | N.S. Kopeika and N.H. Farhat, "Video Detection of Millimeter Waves with | Glow Discharge Tubes," IEEE Transactions on Electron Devices, Vol ED-22, | pp. 534-548, August, 1975. | | N.S. Kopeika, B. Galore, D. Stempler, and Y. Heimenrath, | "Commercial Glow Discharge Tubes as Detectors of X-Band Radiation", IEEE | transactions on Microwave Theory and Technology, Vol MTT-23 pp. 834-846, | October, 1975. | | N.S. Kopeika, "Millimeter-Wave Holography Recording with Glow Discharge | Detectors," Int. J. Electronics, Vol 38, pp. 609-613, May, 1975. | | Any way, how about a $0.99 cent 10 GHz receiver, | made from one of these bulbs? How about a nice parabolic | reflector made from a metal Salad Bowl? See also: http://www.globalserve.net/~lambdac/ "We, the Willing; Lead by the Unknowing; Are doing the impossible for the Ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little. We are now qualified to do any thing, with nothing, forever." - Preface to Murphy's Laws. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 28 20:58:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19588; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:57:54 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:57:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712290455.CAA00397@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 02:59:04 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Greg Watson phone call.. Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19971229014836.5f7541b6.in@pop3.vossnet.de> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"aFANM1.0.zn4.Gtofq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > He told me, that he does not want to hurt the current power companies > and thus to put many people out of work and so his new company deceided > to build a "remote area power generator" for 3rd world applications, > there where poor people are off the grid anyway and needed power to cook lunch > and heat their homes. > So they want to go now for a 1 KWatt unit based on his RMOG design. > He said, the PMOD is too complicated, because his recent experiments indicated > that there are switch times required less than 20 nsec or so... Here in Brasil we have some remote regions in several problems regarding power generation due to climatic conditions. I will be very interested in the DMEC company progress on the 1 kW RMOG. > He told me, that he wanted to setup a new WEB site called DMEC.com or > something simular and also wants to publish all his findings on his way > to scale up the effects and develop the 1 KW unit. > > He told me, that they had their first DMEC board meeting on Dec. 23rd 1997 > and afterwards he wanted to announce it on his current web site. > > That is why I put my Dec. 24th update on overunity.com/update.htm > with a link to his site, but so far he has not updated his site.... > > He also told me, so far only about 3 persons and his family have seen his > cloosed loop running devices. > He also wanted to publish photos and videos AFTER he would have shipped > the SMOT units.. > > Maybe it is time, that also some of the other SMOT order people will call > Greg and ask, what has happened ? Maybe it is time to the others researchers go deeply in their RMOG versions. Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 28 22:05:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14294; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:04:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:04:56 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 00:59:01 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: No such thing as limited overunity! Give me a break! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"lyhYW2.0.FV3.6spfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If any true overunity device is set up in the deepest, darkest, part of any third world country, it will take about 1 week for the technology to spread world wide like flies to cow dung. Limited! Poppy Cock! Give me a break. Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 01:05:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09562; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:04:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:04:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A76691.6643@t-online.de> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:00:01 +0100 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [de]C-DT (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hello - Coler, Hendershot et al References: <19971229014836.5f7541b6.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Sender: 0285780152-0001@t-online.de From: Heinzerling_Clan@t-online.de (Juergen Heinzerling) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id BAA09544 Resent-Message-ID: <"fJjVE2.0.JL2.NUsfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, I've just joined this list, so I guess a proper intro might be in order. I'm a fulltime author of fiction and non-fiction with a background in audio engineering. In 1996, I published a book on the history and sociological implications of FE (_Energie aus dem Nichts_), which is currently available only in German and Taiwanese, so this is not meant as a plug ;-). Be that as it may, during the past year, I came to believe that the Hendershot and Coler devices are in fact variations of the same basic concept. Some months ago, I met a couple of scientists/experimenters who are employing Seike's circuits to "produce" Orgon fields rather than FE. These devices are much more effective than sheet-layered Oracs. And again, their work seems to point into the same direction as Coler's and Hendershot's, respectively. Next week, I'm going to visit Professor Fritz Popp (a Princeton colleague of Hal Puthoff specialising in the investigation of biophotons) for a lab test of these Oracs. This might confirm my subjective impression or not, so I'm really looking forward to this. I must confess I have no theory on this so far, only the rather instinctive hunch that the same principle is involved. Currently, I'm tying to design a combined circuit, employing Coler's as well as Hendershot's circuits. My question: I heard that some Hendershot circuits did not employ the "homemade" cap - if you have any info on this or related matters, please contact me. Thanks, Jürgen _________________________________________________________ Juergen Heinzerling ++++ Author & Investigator "I won't be corrupted. Not for the money they'd pay me." http://home.t-online.de/home/heinzerling_clan@t-online.de mailto: heinzerling_clan@t-online.de From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 01:12:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10393; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:12:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:12:27 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712281603.KAA17549@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 23:11:49 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Hoaxes & Frauds (in the name of truth) Resent-Message-ID: <"IxfmY1.0.AY2.ubsfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Richard - > This is a very interesting assertion. Please > specifically name these reductionist debunker > perpetrators you've identified and their > hoaxes and frauds they have committed to > 'save' the rest of us and teach us of our > 'gullibility'. How deep *is* your head in that sand, Richard? The hoaxes and frauds by government and university scientists and administrators surrounding the CF saga are well documented. If outright intent to deceive with lies and misrepresentations with the published word counts, then the newsgroups are filled with these folks. In the UFO, crop circle, and paranormal fields, hoaxing in order to wind up or "expose" enthusiasts and researchers is absolutely rampant. I don't mean just kids tying flashligts to their kites and so forth to spoof their neighbors, but events created and targeted at researchers. Some of these episodes have been well documented on various TV programs. People go out and hoax lights in crop circle areas where they know researchers are watching, sprinkle "anomalous" materials around in crop circles, and do other things to try to trip up researchers with their mischief. A name here is Robert Irving, then there's the infamous Doug and Dave, and dozens to maybe hundreds of others, but I don't know all their names. Phony or altered reports, bogus photos and other false data is given to researchers to make them look silly by various people and sometimes government or military personnel. You'll find some of the names documented in the books on UFOs and other 'fringe' phenomena if you're really interested. Linda Howe was caught by a fellow named Col. Doty. Ask her about it. ABC news (Nightline) is another name for you. They showed UFO researcher and physicist Bruce Macabee pictures of an aircraft taken from a telescope on Maui, but intentionally gave incorrect information regarding the angle and distance of the target in order to trip him up (it worked, and ABC again scores points against those who are trying to uncover the truth of these and other mysteries). There was that hacker the other day with the Paul Brown episode. I forget his name already. There was a fellow on Compuserve a while back that used to chase some of us around and misrepresent his identity, said he was writing a book (hoax), saying that he had contacted certain people or obtained certain photographs to try to catch people out, and generally made a nuisance of himself. I'm not sure what his angle was, but I think he was a fundy religious nut. His name(s) are probably pseudonyms, since like *some people* (ahem), he liked to hide his accountability behind a certian degree of anonymity. It goes on and on, and these people all spout the same refrain indicating they see themselves as white knight saviors of the gullible and protectors of scientific purity, battling the evil scammers and paranormal/UFO/free-energy researchers alike since most of them tend to equate the two. I would add that in a few cases, perhaps the recent shot at Perrault is an example, the hoaxes actually do turn out a real fraud or scammer on the 'fringe' side. They're certainly out there too, no doubt about it. Is this sort of thing justified? If so, what are the limits? Anyway, I still believe that the balance is rather uneven in favor of the "debunker" side when it comes to actual hoaxes and frauds perpetrated. Evidence to the contrary entertained as usual, but no wagering. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 06:25:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00944; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:23:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:23:44 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Calling Stefan Hartmann, Greg Watson phone call.. Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:58:04 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19971229014836.5f7541b6.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Lines: 39 Resent-Message-ID: <"Jb19I2.0.fE.l9xfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >He told me, that he does not want to hurt the current power >companies and thus to put many people out of work and so his >new company deceided to build a "remote area power >generator" for 3rd world applications, there where poor >people are off the grid anyway and needed power to cook >lunch and heat their homes. Very magnanimous of Greg to save those poor power companies, but by suppressing his own work he has put a few of "Them" out of work that would have other wise had to suppress his work for him. He must not have thought of that. :-) I read some thing long ago that claimed the Department of Defense did a study on what would happen if a Free Energy device did come to market. The conclusion was that 18 million people would be out of work with in the first month. Since my job is directly linked to the Coal Mining Industry I would be one of those 18 million, but I still see Free Energy as a good thing unlike Greg. What none of this covers is that there would be unthought of opportunities and ideas. To start with some one has to manufacture, install, and maintain all these new Free Energy gizmos. Once you've got a personal source of energy you can make your own food and every thing else you need to live. This would significantly upset all structures of every thing that we know of, not just power companies; doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 06:25:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00956; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:23:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:23:46 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT R.I.P.? Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:16:11 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: Lines: 21 Resent-Message-ID: <"gauwP3.0.qE.m9xfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Some thing I'd like to know about SMOT. If a circular loop has been done as some have claimed. Then why would a simple Teeter-Toter not work? Seems much simpler. I tried to build one but could not get it to work, which says more about my lack of mechanical aptitude that the concept. Had some one at else that does have mechanical aptitude and they didn't get it to work either. Has any one tried a Teeter-Toter AND HAD IT WORK? If this simple test does not work is worth the time and bandwidth to pursue the more complicated version? -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 06:56:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03518; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:54:32 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:54:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971229175444.006b6588@multinet.net.il> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:54:44 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lev Robert Subject: Big Brother is watching you Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Q48Ev3.0.ts.bcxfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all That's not supposed to be a freenergy subject but I think it's of interest for everyone using the Internet Explorer 4.00. I hope it's only a gossip but I heard that the Explorer is checking everyone's directory on it's home computer in order to find "stolen" programs. Anyone heard about it. Robert BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 07:00:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04382; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:59:51 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:59:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971229145836.24557.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:58:36 -0800 (PST) From: mr mojo Subject: SMOT & Greg Watson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"IilNG3.0.M41.bhxfq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have been watching and reading all the junk on this list for the last few weeks. Seems that people have some problems with Greg going private with some of his work, and they are upset with that orders have not been shipped. They are even beginning to doubt if the SMOT effect is real. I would like to add a few of my own observations to the fire.. 1) Greg has done the work out of his own pocket and time. There is no money tree in his yard. Give a break... 2) Based on my SMOT work, Greg needs to take planetary allignment and the phase of the moon into acccount. H e should also add some pixie dust to the circular tracks... Bottom line, it is something that works sometimes... 3) I have no direct or indirect involvement with Greg. I use a fake name in order to keep things apart from work. 4) I have built one SMOT device. It used a modified MKII design. 4 10cm radio shack round magnets at the end, vs 5 rectangular magnets ( not as much length or force in the magnet array). I used a U channeland a 3/8 ball bearing. Magnets were taped to cardboard, channel supported by cardboard shims. Elaborate, no, did it work, YES. I got a ball to roll uphill for a gain of 4-5 mm. The ball was SLOWLY pushed up the ramp till it was grabbed by teh magnets(and I do mean slowly). When the magnets were removed, the ball rolled down the ramp, not uphill. When the setup was placed on a level plane, the ball would move through the array, but would be captured by the last magnet(this is what you would expect) 5) WHile a SMOT will move a ball, I am not certain that we are dealing with ZPE here. It looks to me like we have a device that cheats (I will get flames for this one). We use the magnets to pull the ball uphill, most of the weight of the ball is supported by the track. At the top of the array, we suddenly break the loop, bu having the ball fall out of the array. It looks like we have a step function here. 6) I have sent John Louis Na... some email, never heard back from him. I asked if he had built any device that actually worked. I would like to built a Tesla switch or something else, but do not want to waste my time and effort on something that will not work. 7) There have been many attempts at a rotary SMOT, they all seem have failed. I think that I have a scheme that will work... more on this later. 8) Closed loop SMOT, with one ramp, it may not work. I think that some form of closed loop will work, but with many ramps, and a short distance between them... 9) has anyone thought about getting real work out of a smot. A little thought will reveal how to do it... I leave this as an exercise for the reader. (Hint: an object moving through a magnet field generates a current and voltage). 10 Greg's 1Kw device, may never see the light of day.. If it becomes true, I will get one and pull the plug on the power co. The only problem is AC... 11) Please send all flames to DEV/NULL Enough ranting for now... _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 08:47:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19185; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:47:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:47:04 -0800 Message-ID: <34A7EFD1.99D@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:45:37 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hello - Coler, Hendershot et al References: <19971229014836.5f7541b6.in@pop3.vossnet.de> <34A76691.6643@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EHDzx.0.fh4.6Gzfq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jurgen! Glad to see you on the list!!! Did you get tired of the Fortean meanderings? Happens everywhere I guess. Seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 09:44:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29503; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:42:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:42:03 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD1446.716A4CA0@ts002d09.mer-id.concentric.net> From: Paul Brown To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: "Bifilar Waveguide" and PAGD Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:42:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD1446.716A4CA0" Resent-Message-ID: <"a71Xp3.0.nC7.g3-fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1446.716A4CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In reading the Correa patents, the technique is extremely simple. The = tube itself is of simple construction, after all it is only a glow = discharge tube provided with a couple of extra electrodes. Then, how can = anyone do it wrong? Patents are supposed to be written in such a manner = that anyone versed in the art can pick up the patent and replicate the = work contained therein; that is the purpose of a patent-very clear = description and claims. Not so when we read the Correa patent, these = documents should have never left the patent office. There is so much = double talk that the examiner could not have understood the inventors = claims, neither will any enforcement action in the future, should it = ever become an issue, since no one knows what they are talking about. = What is an Abnormal Glow Discharge? If it is a newly discovered = phenomena, then clarify it so that others with enough competence may = develop it into applied technology. -----Original Message----- From: Tim D Vaughan [SMTP:tv@juno.com] Sent: Saturday, December 20, 1997 10:58 PM To: revtec@ptd.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Bifilar Waveguide" and PAGD Did you say PAGD apparatus, as in Pulsed Abnormal Glow discharge of Paulo and Alexandra Correa ? Please tell us more ? Any results. According to Paulo no one has succeeded in replicating his work even though guy has been trying in a way that he thinks is off course and wil not succeed. Is that you ? Paulo claims that he has disclosed all in his patents and it could be replicated by someone "skilled in the art". Because of its similarity to T.H. Moray, Leon Dragone, and Chernetskii, = I am very interested in the work of the Correa's. By the way, the Correa web site (The Edge of Space) is at: http://www.globalserve.net/~lambdac/ Best Holiday Wishes, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:07:34 -0500 jeff fink writes: >Bob Flower and I are building a "Bifilar Waveguide" -- ie, a bifilar=20 >coil with distributed capacitance -- as follows: two 200 ft rolls=20 >of aluminum foil, separated by two rolls of Glad Wrap, all wound=20 >around a hollow core of PVC pipe. >=20 >In other words, the Al foil acts as the plates of the capacitance,=20 >and also as the conductor of the inductance. Since both L and C are=20 >distributed, we have a waveguide of sorts. > >We want to see what this does to square waveforms from a signal=20 >generator, and then subject it to high energy pulses generated from=20 >our PAGD apparatus. > >1. Has anyone built a coil like this before -- ie a bifilar coil with=20 >distributed capacitance?=20 > >2. Suggestions for good electrical bonding of the foil ends? > >3. Will a 600 volt potential arc through the Glad Wrap? Any >suggestions for alternate dielectric materials? Clear polyethylene >film would be good, but where can we get same on a roll 12 inches >wide x several hundred feet long? > >Comments? 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smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02931; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:13:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:13:04 -0800 Message-ID: <34A803F4.2F2D@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:11:32 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: World changes from ZPE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pM7_83.0.Pj.jW-fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gnorts Bob et al! Bob Paddock wrote; > I read some thing long ago that claimed the Department of > Defense did a study on what would happen if a Free Energy > device did come to market. The conclusion was that 18 > million people would be out of work with in the first month. That would make for an interesting article....you know, it just hit me, a few years back, at a conference, I think it was an ISNE, someone mentioned a study, quite detailed, that was published by the US Coast Guard or something similar....not a source you'd normally associate with free energy... This study was a projection of what life would be like in the year 2010 or so. It clearly stated that we would all be using ZPE based devices for standalone power generation. The person talking about it (I think it was Patrick Bailey) from the podium was very, very insistent that this book or document be ordered for study. I believe it was to show that something was up in government circles. Quite possibly this document is now on the InterNet (or should be). I had written it in my notes and posted it on the BBS email. Have to look up the notes unless someone out there remembers the name of the document.....will also send an email to Patrick and see if he might recall who put it together and the name. A list of all the permutations that would occur in society and governments as a direct result of the implementation of free energy devices would be quite a piece of work. (Would also make a GREAT VIDEO DOCUMENTARY) Especially how it would affect current power generation facilities. No more reliance on oil or gasoline, so as Puthoff said he was told, the oil would now be applied to pharmaceuticals, plastics and value added materials. Anyway, maybe someone will come up with the title, I'll post it if found. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 10:31:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07623; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:30:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:30:43 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:25:15 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: World changes from ZPE In-Reply-To: <34A803F4.2F2D@keelynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kmAdb2.0.-s1.Hn-fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Jerry wrote: > Gnorts Bob et al! > > Bob Paddock wrote; > > I read some thing long ago that claimed the Department of > > Defense did a study on what would happen if a Free Energy > > device did come to market. The conclusion was that 18 > > million people would be out of work with in the first month. > > That would make for an interesting article....you know, it just hit me, a > few years back, at a conference, I think it was an ISNE, someone > mentioned a study, quite detailed, that was published by the US Coast > Guard or something similar....not a source you'd normally associate with > free energy... > > This study was a projection of what life would be like in the year 2010 > or so. It clearly stated that we would all be using ZPE based devices > for standalone power generation. The person talking about it (I think it > was Patrick Bailey) from the podium was very, very insistent that this > book or document be ordered for study. I believe it was to show that > something was up in government circles. > > Quite possibly this document is now on the InterNet (or should be). I > had written it in my notes and posted it on the BBS email. Have to look > up the notes unless someone out there remembers the name of the > document.....will also send an email to Patrick and see if he might > recall who put it together and the name. > > A list of all the permutations that would occur in society and > governments as a direct result of the implementation of free energy > devices would be quite a piece of work. (Would also make a > GREAT VIDEO DOCUMENTARY) > > Especially how it would affect current power generation facilities. No > more reliance on oil or gasoline, so as Puthoff said he was told, the oil > would now be applied to pharmaceuticals, plastics and value added > materials. > > Anyway, maybe someone will come up with the title, I'll post it if found. > -- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 > Jerry, I believe if Free Energy was invented, business would still have to continue running. Here are three reasons: 1.) Someone would have to manufacture them. 2.) Sommone would have to maintain them. 3.) Someone would have to improve them. Is that not what we already do with our power facilities? Some jobs might be lost, but probably not as high as 18 Million! Think, Nuclear power plants were thought to be THE best chance at never ending power we could get. Look how many people it took to make, run, improve, and repair the bloody things! No jobs were lost when Nuclear power came out. The people from other types of plants moved to nuclear. More people had to be employed cause now they needed atomic engineers. I believe jobs will be lost, but jobs will be created, just like with any other invention in the world. And the stock market won't fall to 2 points or so, like everyone thinks, because Free Energy stocks will appear and sky-rocket like crazy! A lot of people may and probably will lose money, but anyone smart enough to investigate stocks will pick Free Energy. Why? Because if it is found, it will be the most productive of any investment. Free Energy would not be as bad as governments feel. And which would YOU rather have: Barren Wastelands and Acid Rain? -OR- Some lost jobs and a happy planet. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 10:45:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11094; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:44:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:44:41 -0800 Message-ID: <34A80B60.4EEC@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:43:12 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: World changes from ZPE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JIa2L.0.Ej2.O--fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi! HackEd wrote; > Jerry, > I believe if Free Energy was invented, business would still have > to continue running. Here are three reasons: > 1.) Someone would have to manufacture them. > 2.) Someone would have to maintain them. > 3.) Someone would have to improve them. Yes, I neglected to mention that and meant to. Someone still has to build and support these new ZPE devices. It was Bob's quote about the 18 million jobs lost (estimated). I agree with you completely, tapping ZPE for energy will produce chaos for a couple of years, but the changes will so much to the benefit of the world that this short transitional chaos will be insignificant in the long run. Factories and pollutants in space, a garden planet for pure healthy food and recreation. gotta love it, but like the man said, we're a bunch of lunatics....... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 11:01:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14853; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:01:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:01:30 -0800 Message-ID: <34A80F4E.4431@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:59:58 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Puthoff@aol.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Book info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R48hg3.0.rd3.8E_fq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Hal! Thanks for the info on the book, 'The Road to 2015'...I think I'll post it on the KeelyNet website so it'll be there for future reference. Called the Waite Group Press out in Corte Madera, CA...415-924-2575 at 1PM today. Got a recording, they are closed for the holiday season, will call back after the 1st when business hours resume. Will post ordering details and price. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 12:05:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18244; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:04:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:04:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A80169.588B@t-online.de> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:00:41 +0100 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [de]C-DT (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hello - Coler, Hendershot et al References: <19971229014836.5f7541b6.in@pop3.vossnet.de> <34A76691.6643@t-online.de> <34A7EFD1.99D@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Sender: 0285780152-0001@t-online.de From: Heinzerling_Clan@t-online.de (Juergen Heinzerling) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id MAA18222 Resent-Message-ID: <"EBkFS1.0.zS4.L90gq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jerry wrote: > > Hi Jurgen! > > Glad to see you on the list!!! Did you get tired of the Fortean > meanderings? Happens everywhere I guess. Seeya! Hi Jerry! Nope, I'm still active in Forteana and made lots of friends over there. Still, FE isn't a *major* topic with Forteana, so that's why I'm here now, too. Jürgen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 12:05:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28239; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:04:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:04:10 -0800 Message-ID: <34A7D405.5EC9@t-online.de> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:47:01 +0100 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [de]C-DT (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT & Greg Watson References: <19971229145836.24557.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: 0285780152-0001@t-online.de From: Heinzerling_Clan@t-online.de (Juergen Heinzerling) Resent-Message-ID: <"NT3bf3.0.8v6.v80gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com mr mojo wrote: > > > 6) I have sent John Louis Na... some email, never heard back from him. > I asked if he had built any device that actually worked. I would > like to built a Tesla switch or something else, but do not want to > waste my time and effort on something that will not work. I met Jean-Louis on the TransAltec congress in Zurich (6/7 Dec 97). He presented working models of a one-ramp SMOT and Hamel Spinner plus a video showing an impressive number of convincing experiments. I gave his SMOT a try and can only say it works as it is supposed to do - there's no "spongy" loading effect when you push the ball onto the rail and it moves upwards by the magnets' power alone. While I still have my doubts in regard to the perpetuality of this device, it does what its inventors claim. In regard to Jean-Louis, I can only say he is a nice guy, honest for sure, but rather slow on the e-mail ;-). Jean-Louis also told me that he had quit his job at Apple France to completely dedicate his work to FE, confessing that his financing is zero now. So this guy needs all the support he would get, IMO - please give him a break! > > 7) There have been many attempts at a rotary SMOT, they all seem have > failed. I think that I have a scheme that will work... more on this > later. Well, it would be good enough if it worked in a linear fashion over a large distance. One could build a dual rail system then where the "trains" woukld use one rail to get from A to B and the other for the reverse trip. It would take a small amount of power only to shift the train to the other rail at the end of the trip. _________________________________________________________ Juergen Heinzerling ++++ Author & Investigator "I won't be corrupted. Not for the money they'd pay me." http://home.t-online.de/home/heinzerling_clan@t-online.de mailto: heinzerling_clan@t-online.de From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 12:43:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03650; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:43:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:43:40 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Bifilar Waveguide" and PAGD Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:32:45 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <01BD1446.716A4CA0@ts002d09.mer-id.concentric.net> In-Reply-To: <01BD1446.716A4CA0@ts002d09.mer-id.concentric.net> Lines: 38 Resent-Message-ID: <"lPZpv.0.xu.xj0gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >In reading the Correa patents, the technique is extremely simple. The >tube itself is of simple construction, after all it is only a glow >discharge tube provided with a couple of extra electrodes. You can get multi-terminal high voltage discharge arc tubes from places like Luminoixs ect. You can also get high voltage regulator bulbs of the type that where used 50 years go much simpler than todays Solid-State stuff if you only need a few micro-amps of current. >What is an Abnormal Glow Discharge? If it is a newly discovered >phenomena, then clarify it so that others with enough competence may >develop it into applied technology. I can't speak about the Correa stuff but the Abnormal Glow region is the area of the V/I curve where the plasma is about to go out from lack of current/voltage. It is in standard data sheets for Neon Bulbs like the NE2. I can send you a simplified V/I cure from one of the data sheets if you want to see it. There are other regions such as the Strike Region (Plasma ignition), and the Maintain (steady state) Region where a bulb is a simple light bulb (where you normal use one). Each manufacture uses a slight variation on the wording/terminology but there all talking about the same V/I curve that is inherent in NE2 like bulbs. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 12:44:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03688; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:43:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:43:48 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: World changes from ZPE Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:27:09 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <34A803F4.2F2D@keelynet.com> In-Reply-To: <34A803F4.2F2D@keelynet.com> Lines: 28 Resent-Message-ID: <"oYVnh.0.Pv.2k0gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >That would make for an interesting article....you know, it just hit me, a >few years back, at a conference, I think it was an ISNE, someone >mentioned a study, quite detailed, that was published by the US Coast >Guard >This study was a projection of what life would be like in the year 2010 >or so. I remember reading the same thing. I remember it was in some file about Time Travel or the Montoka (sp?) Project? >I believe it was to show that >something was up in government circles. Don't know if its on your WEB site but one the BBS was alive you had a file there called USA2001.GIF that showed what the USA cost line would look like in the year 2001. Most of the east and west cost are gone. With large lakes in the mid-west the size of a state or two. What some one point out to me was that if you looked at all of the Military Base closings in relation to this picture was that the bases that would be under water where the ones that where closed. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 14:39:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11480; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:39:32 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:39:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:26:34 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Calling Stefan Hartmann, Greg Watson phone call.. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"uT23I3.0.Hp2.YQ2gq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > He told me, that he does not want to hurt the current power companies > and thus to put many people out of work and so his new company deceided > to build a "remote area power generator" for 3rd world applications, > there where poor people are off the grid anyway and needed power to > cook lunch and heat their homes. Um, do any of you all realize how silly that is? Not the delivery of 1kW units to third world countries, the concern for the power companies. I can assure you that the following things will happen: 1) Someone will invariably obtain a dozen or so of the devices for their home use. Unless the RMOG based unit is largish, the thing can be awfully damn useful in powering most if not all the AC powered devices in a house (1kW is in general, sufficient to power things like TV's, computers, etc.) 2) If it's shipped to certain "third world" countries, the people there will manage to find someone smart enough to dismantle the device and reverse engineer the things enough to be able to mass-produce the things or they'll sell it to some of the "first world" countries like Taiwan, Korea, or Japan- for example. They'll have no compunctions to making SCADS of them. And again, the stated purposes will have been defeated because they'll sell them to whomever will buy them. 3) Because of this (1&2), the power companies will have to do something to survive- there's little reason if the things are cheap enough to use in the home and purchase one. Many of them will fold for sure- they've been resting on their laurels for so long that they wouldn't know what to to do to cope with the sudden shift in things. Greg, I like your thinking- it'd be nice if everyone went away from this happy. Unfortunately, like the story in the movie in the States "Chain Reaction" the world is very much addicted to the power sources and methods we're using right now. The moment a demonstrable O/U or essentially free power source is made there will be social and economic shockwaves- and you're not going to keep from hurting the power companies or possibly costing those jobs that you're claiming you're worried about. The moment you ship that first one and it does in fact prove to work, you're going to have the VERY effect that you're trying to avoid. It can't be avoided. It shouldn't be avoided. There's been other shifts in the way things are done. In some cases people tried to avoid the shockwaves- they happened anyway and people were hurt. They were hurt because they were stuck in a rut and couldn't move quickly enough to get out of the way to keep from being crushed under the wheels of change. History is littered with people and companies that couldn't adapt. If the power companies can't cope, then maybe they should cease to be. Go ahead, Greg, choose your path- but realize that it's going to end up alot like you're hoping to avoid, no matter WHAT you do. -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 15:03:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03055; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:02:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:02:52 -0800 Message-ID: <34A847DC.2230@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:01:16 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Appliance Electrical Requirements Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zRlx6.0.Ol.Pm2gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gnorts Frank, Stefan, et al! Stefan Hartmann reported a conversation with Greg Watson saying; >> He told me, that he does not want to hurt the current power companies >> and thus to put many people out of work and so his new company >> deceided to build a "remote area power generator" for 3rd world >> applications, there where poor people are off the grid anyway and >> needed power to cook lunch and heat their homes. Frank C. Earl wrote (with regard to Greg Watson protecting the power companies); > Um, do any of you all realize how silly that is? Not the delivery > of 1kW units to third world countries, the concern for the power > companies. I can assure you that the following things will happen: > > 1) Someone will invariably obtain a dozen or so of > the devices for their home use. Unless the RMOG based unit > is largish, the thing can be awfully damn useful in powering > most if not all the AC powered devices in a house (1kW is > in general, sufficient to power things like TV's, computers, > etc.) A file about appliance power requirements is available to assist in determining just how much electrical energy would be needed to run a modern home, if you are interested; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/offgrid.txt That is what many I know envision, a power supply inside each device we buy, so that it runs ANYWHERE without need of wires or outside sources. One researcher calls his version a 'perpetual battery' as it uses a tuned circuit with a short antenna, sealed in epoxy. Forget about massive 50KW units because it is the same old tune, I prefer to simplify and reduce. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 16:32:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18642; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:31:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:31:59 -0800 Message-ID: <34A842A3.AC0@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:38:59 -0500 From: "Robert W. Gray" Reply-To: rwgray@servtech.com Organization: P.D.Structures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: World changes from ZPE References: <34A803F4.2F2D@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lshWO2.0.BZ4.z34gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > few years back, at a conference, I think it was an ISNE, someone > mentioned a study, quite detailed, that was published by the US Coast > Guard or something similar....not a source you'd normally associate with > free energy... > > This study was a projection of what life would be like in the year 2010 > or so. It clearly stated that we would all be using ZPE based devices > for standalone power generation. The person talking about it (I think it > was Patrick Bailey) from the podium was very, very insistent that this > book or document be ordered for study. I believe it was to show that > something was up in government circles. > > Quite possibly this document is now on the InterNet (or should be). I > had written it in my notes and posted it on the BBS email. Have to look > up the notes unless someone out there remembers the name of the > document.....will also send an email to Patrick and see if he might > recall who put it together and the name. > > Anyway, maybe someone will come up with the title, I'll post it if found. > -- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 The document is by John L. Peterson and called "The Road to 2012: Looking Toward the Next Two Decades", Arlington, VA: Arlington Institute, 1992. I found this reference in Jeane Manning's book "The Coming Energy Revolution." She writes "Futurist John L. Peterson, in a report prepared for the United States Coast Guard, calss space energy a major force for change." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 16:38:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26351; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:37:49 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:37:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971230003624.8632.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:36:24 -0800 (PST) From: mr mojo Subject: Re: Calling Stefan Hartmann, Greg Watson phone call.. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"lYroJ2.0.dR6.R94gq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com More of my mindless ramblings.. Lets look at the Buggy Whip companies in the early century... where are they all now... They either adapted or they went on and did other things.. I agree, if a working device ever does show up, it will cause massive problems, but I do think that the down side is smaller than the upside. A heck lot less pollution, etc.. ---"Frank C. Earl" wrote: > > > He told me, that he does not want to hurt the current power companies > > and thus to put many people out of work and so his new company deceided > > to build a "remote area power generator" for 3rd world applications, > > there where poor people are off the grid anyway and needed power to > > cook lunch and heat their homes. > > Um, do any of you all realize how silly that is? Not the delivery > of 1kW units to third world countries, the concern for the power > companies. I can assure you that the following things will happen: _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 17:05:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27066; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:05:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:05:03 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Bifilar Waveguide" and PAGD Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:56:06 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <01BD1479.AE58DEA0@ts002d02.mer-id.concentric.net> In-Reply-To: <01BD1479.AE58DEA0@ts002d02.mer-id.concentric.net> Lines: 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"MTqhp1.0.pc6.zY4gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >This is just my point; all this stuff is observed phenomena, not even >new stuff. Then why did Correa go to the extremes of describing his work >in terms he made up? Only he can anwser that. >How did the patent office let this thing slide >through (three times yet) without using contemporary >language? I've seen many things espicaly in software that have been recently patented that should not have been as they where in common use for years. >I just want to know if Correa's have >anything. I thought from you previous e-mail that you had some >understanding of what Abnormal glow discharge is supposed to be. > >I am interested in what the Correas claim to be doing This is my understanding of things which I'm not going to take bets on as been right. The first refrences I've seen to Abnormal Glow is in the use in comunication equipment. Basicly microwave receivers. In E.E.Richards paper "Earth Power Spectrum and Its Potential As A usable Energy Source" he specifically states "Examples being a high frequency electromagnetic radiation of 19GHz in which the Earth is immersed [1]; and a still higher background flux of 33GHz moving past the Earth at a velocity of 320 km/sec [2]." Its my view that Correas as used these Abnormal Glow Rx's to tap into this microwave 'flow' and convert it to our more conventional energy specturm. [1] Smoot, Gorenstein, and Muller, cited in Science News, July 16, 1976, pg. 44. [2] Corey and Wilkenson, Science News, July 3, 1976, pg 10. Silvertooth [Aether detection] and Koreve (sp?) [Experiments in time modification] also talk of this energy flow... -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 17:22:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29796; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:21:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:21:49 -0800 Message-ID: <34A8686D.2E42@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:20:13 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stiffler@compassnet.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Paranoia & Suppression References: <199712290734.AAA25499@freenet.uchsc.EDU> <34A776A9.6C53@keelynet.com> <34A84666.AC6A86E5@compassnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gfeX7.0.KH7.ho4gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gnorts! R.R. Stiffler wrote; > Really show concern when info starts to disappear from KeelyNet, JNL > Labs etc...... Thanks for the concerns, however, on the InterNet, I have noted many events which are appear to be odd, but are mostly attributable to just lost files or equipment failure. For instance, oftimes I cannot access some URLs, but wait an hour or a day to try again and it works fine. Same for some files. What was odd about the Searl3 file, it just disappeared from the server. There is a PROBABILITY, more than a possibility, that I converted it from a .txt file to an .htm file and failed to upload the .htm version, though there was no .txt version on the site. There is also the probability that I put it in the wrong directory. In all the years I've been involved in the alt/science arena, I've never encountered any attempts at repression. Probably because I and my associates never represented what would constitute a threat.... ...though I think there is much more noise than signal when it comes to paranoia. In fact, was offered a job by two DIA guys (Thompson was one's name) back around 1987, turned it down cause they wanted me to go to conferences, collect info and translate to terms they could understand. Had to all remain secret. Forget that. Some people who claim to have been harassed turn out to be their own worst enemies, failing to take care of the business of life and using harassment, suppression or threats as their excuse. Elvis said it best, 'take care of bi'ness', too easy to get so hung up on this stuff that we neglect the responsibilities that life, family and friends call for. As I get older, it is frustrating to not see a working overunity or gravity control device available for purchase, as a working unit, as a kit or as plans that will work when built to spec. After some 30 years, you'd think something would have turned up by now if we aren't all chasing our tails or dreams. Wonder what ever happend to Wingate Lambertsen (out in Florida) and his WIN cells that used Casimir spaced plates separated by a silicone-like crystal bearing dopant? He claimed to be able to run banks of 1KW sodium lamps. Said he was about to get a patent too. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 18:49:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15815; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:49:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:49:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A6064C.5694@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:57:00 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Garry Motor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9I8zZ2.0.0t3.Z46gq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I guess my Questeion is to Jerry mostly Im just interested in the time frame bettween the invention of the Garry magnetic Motor and the reported airship siteings senora airoclub thing ,just adding things up a rich inventer men on the moon that sort of thing. were is everyone on Holliday or something -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 18:48:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15612; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:48:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:48:24 -0800 Message-ID: <34A84DD6.73D7@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:26:46 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT & Greg Watson References: <19971229145836.24557.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rgpEi.0.qp3.s36gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com mr mojo wrote: > > I have been watching and reading all the junk on this list for the > last few weeks. Seems that people have some problems with Greg going > private with some of his work, and they are upset with that orders > have not been shipped. They are even beginning to doubt if the SMOT > effect is real. > > I would like to add a few of my own observations to the fire.. > > 1) Greg has done the work out of his own pocket and time. There is no > money tree in his yard. Give a break... > > 2) Based on my SMOT work, Greg needs to take planetary allignment and > the phase of the moon into acccount. H e should also add some pixie > dust to the circular tracks... Bottom line, it is something that works > sometimes... > > 3) I have no direct or indirect involvement with Greg. I use a fake > name in order to keep things apart from work. > > 4) I have built one SMOT device. It used a modified MKII design. 4 > 10cm radio shack round magnets at the end, vs 5 rectangular magnets ( > not as much length or force in the magnet array). I used a U > channeland a 3/8 ball bearing. Magnets were taped to cardboard, > channel supported by cardboard shims. Elaborate, no, did it work, > YES. I got a ball to roll uphill for a gain of 4-5 mm. The ball was > SLOWLY pushed up the ramp till it was grabbed by teh magnets(and I do > mean slowly). When the magnets were removed, the ball rolled down the > ramp, not uphill. When the setup was placed on a level plane, the > ball would move through the array, but would be captured by the last > magnet(this is what you would expect) > > 5) WHile a SMOT will move a ball, I am not certain that we are dealing > with ZPE here. It looks to me like we have a device that cheats (I > will get flames for this one). We use the magnets to pull the ball > uphill, most of the weight of the ball is supported by the track. At > the top of the array, we suddenly break the loop, bu having the ball > fall out of the array. It looks like we have a step function here. > > 6) I have sent John Louis Na... some email, never heard back from him. > I asked if he had built any device that actually worked. I would > like to built a Tesla switch or something else, but do not want to > waste my time and effort on something that will not work. > > 7) There have been many attempts at a rotary SMOT, they all seem have > failed. I think that I have a scheme that will work... more on this > later. > > 8) Closed loop SMOT, with one ramp, it may not work. I think that some > form of closed loop will work, but with many ramps, and a short > distance between them... > > 9) has anyone thought about getting real work out of a smot. A little > thought will reveal how to do it... I leave this as an exercise for > the reader. (Hint: an object moving through a magnet field generates > a current and voltage). > > 10 Greg's 1Kw device, may never see the light of day.. If it becomes > true, I will get one and pull the plug on the power co. The only > problem is AC... that what I thought and Inspired the Idea of the RRAMM E PUMP your gift there is a AC component what can be used to ether power the osqulations or to power a load > > 11) Please send all flames to DEV/NULL > > Enough ranting for now... > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 19:40:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23742; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:33:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:33:13 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19971229145836.24557.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:56:28 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT & Greg Watson Resent-Message-ID: <"LyJUr3.0.so5.oj6gq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mr. Mojo - > did it work, YES. Er, that should be a NO, according to your own descriptions of the results of your SMOT testing. We need a real rollaway on a level track to prove that the ball gains energy from its trip through the magnet array. Have you *really* been reading all the "junk' on this list? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 20:17:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03736; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:17:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:17:24 -0800 (PST) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT & Greg Watson Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 04:15:40 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34b0487e.79537164@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <19971229145836.24557.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19971229145836.24557.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RFRfm3.0.4w.FN7gq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:58:36 -0800 (PST), mr mojo wrote: [snip] >9) has anyone thought about getting real work out of a smot. A little >thought will reveal how to do it... I leave this as an exercise for >the reader. (Hint: an object moving through a magnet field generates >a current and voltage). [snip] So if model railroad tracks are used, a voltage might appear across the two tracks. If so, then any excess energy can easily be measured by reducing the external resistance across the tracks, until the ball no longer completes a circuit. At that point power production is easily calculated from voltage and external resistance. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 20:19:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00993; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:19:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:19:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:14:04 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: World changes from ZPE In-Reply-To: <34A80B60.4EEC@keelynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YhWxU1.0.QF.2P7gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jerry "The Nut" Decker said: > but like the man said, we're a bunch of lunatics....... > -- Too true Jerry, too true :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 20:38:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04455; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:38:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:38:37 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:33:27 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: We're all NUTS! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ALz9y2.0.R51.Bh7gq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A famously anonymous quote: "Anyone believing in any of that over unity crap must be nuts!" Well? Are we proud to be nuts? I think so! And we should be! What did everyone think about the Wright (sp?) Brothers when they said they were going to make man fly? And what about Edison, Tesla, and Bell? They were all nuts too. But that didn't stop them. They were proud of being nuts. Without lunatics, we would never have had power. We never would have seen Earth from the outside. We never would have touched the dust on our little moon. We wouldn't have nuclear reactors, automobiles, or anything else that has improved our lives... SO GO AHEAD, CALL US NUTS! BUT MAKE SURE YOU CALL PEOPLE LIKE THE WRIGHT BROTHERS NUTS AS WELL, 'CAUSE THEY WERE JUST AS CRAZY!! _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ We're all just raving lunatics... _/ _/ Just like Thomas Edison :) _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 21:03:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08827; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:02:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:02:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:01:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712300501.VAA23386@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Can you also call Greg Watson , please ? Cc: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Resent-Message-ID: <"wQ0JZ3.0.k92.R18gq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:13 AM 12/30/97 +0100, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >Hi, > >I have seen, that you also ordered a SMOT kit from Greg Watson. > >Please can you try to call him on the phone and ask him, >what will happen to our orders ? >Thanks ! > >Here is his phone number: > >++61 8 8270 2737 > >>From the USA the area code is: >011- > >Please let me know via email what he will tell you. Well I just called Greg and he is doing fine. His computer was being upgraded when the main CPU was found to be defective. Greg says he will be on-line in a couple of days with his web site updated to explain what has happened since his last post. He says that there is interest to mass produce his SMOT design for the "executive toy" market. Greg said other vortex and freenrg list members have called and he said to check his web site for the updates, in a couple of days. Sounds good to me! Best Regards, Michael Randall >Thanks a lot in advance ! > >Regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 21:05:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09323; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:05:32 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:05:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A89CA7.5657@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:03:03 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: ab837@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Re: World changes from ZPE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"awJ7n1.0.aH2.P48gq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi HackEd et al! > Jerry "The Nut" Decker said: > but like the man said, we're a bunch of lunatics....... > -- Hope everyone realizes that was a crack at the deadsmot synopsis where we were called lunatics, looked for the synopsis to capture the quote, but it is 'gone' though the page still contains SMOT effluvia....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 23:42:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26039; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:42:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:42:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712300741.IAA43682@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:29:00 CET Subject: Ang.: Schappeller Glowing Magnetism To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com Resent-Message-ID: <"1k0g5.0.lM6.fNAgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >his combing of libraries and research material in Europe, he came upon >all kinds of original documents and photos pertaining to the research of >Karl Schappeller. It has been next to impossible to find documentation on Karl Schapeller's research... More information on this would be appreciated. Regards, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 01:02:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08000; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:01:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:01:24 -0800 Message-ID: <34A8D425.224D@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:59:49 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmans@aeneas.net CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Appliance Electrical Requirements References: <34A847DC.2230@keelynet.com> <34A85D77.55A9@aeneas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W7rMe2.0.oy1.YXBgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gnorts Mark et al! Just happened to be browsing the Quake compilation file and noticed something odd on the QUAKE2.ASC insert near the end of the file that seems to correlate with the aether/ZPE fluctuations mentioned in this same thread. The following file was originally posted on the KeelyNet BBS on January 30th, 1992 as QUAKE2.ASC. Originally from NEWS TRACK - December 1989 Vol 32 Number 12 Communications of ACM [Association for Computing Machinary] HERE COMES THE SUN... Solar activity is at its peak from now through April 1990, and scientists are worried that the atmospheric effects will be powerful enough to cause major computer systems to crash. Solar storms and radiation-spewing sun flares are electrical and magnetic currents that can alter the Earth's magnetic field. Space-based computer systems can be damaged by such solar emissions, while ground-based computers are vulnerable to such dangers as electrical surges that can harm power grids. (Solar surges were recently blamed for wiping out computer systems at the Toronto Stock Exchange.) Sun-watchers say threatening sunspots will remain extremely energetic until early spring before begining to slowly taper off into 1993. ----------------------------------------------------- What makes this interesting is the reference to electrical SURGES produced by solar and magnetic disturbances. In these aether/ZPE energy tapping devices which appear to be subject to FLUCTUATIONS in the space energy field (whether it be aether/ZPE or some kind of frequency), this could be directly related if not the CAUSE of such surges that blew out Lambertsens tungsten filament light bulbs or the ZPE circuit, or even the HP/Westinghouse aperiodic O/U circuitry. Perhaps the surges are due to some kind of ripple in the aether or cosmic frequency that could be the CAUSE or maybe even the EFFECT of the surges? More and more puzzling...seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 01:51:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04663; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:51:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:51:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A8BD66.2DF8@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:22:46 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: the sea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4wJ541.0.m81.IGCgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I see I see a perpetual sea I see A sea of change I see a sea of change brings a sea of hope I see the sea. I see a sea a stormy sea I see a stormy sea I see a sea of change I see, I think see the sea but a sea of change brings a sea of hope I see I see the sea. I hope to see the sea of life bring a sea of freedom see for you and me so I send this gift to thee dont know who wrote this but it just seemed to come to mind as I traveled in to the city to replace the flat ferrite rod i broke while triming the waist they had just sold the last mercury switch no more for two weeks bum! dosent enyone want my Drawing Board file theres even my coil wounder how do you spell that word! oh f it just broke the second ferrite think ill cut some lamernations out of the TVs transformer its boorring does ent work anyway err just snaped the hacksaw blade another f try the glue and kevlar string if i can find it long wrap, unwaxed dental floss year! happy new year! -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 04:03:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12461; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 04:02:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 04:02:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A8E0BC.F87@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:53:32 +1300 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can you also call Greg Watson , please ? References: <19971230000853.64405504.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DEZhV3.0.b23.aBEgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi, > > I have seen, that you also ordered a SMOT kit from Greg Watson. > > Please can you try to call him on the phone and ask him, Thanks a lot in advance ! > > Regards, Stefan. > -- Well i would but to tell you the truth I cant even pay last months phone bill ,I think Gregs given me good value for my money I have learnt a great deal from him even if thats not what I payed for, if he has streached the truth abit well maybe i am just another sucker . for the last 10 months Ive been enthused in my quest for the zpe by Greg and this non wavering conferdence so I just have to trust and do my own rescearch to capture the beast I can understand how easy it is to be derailed by unforseen problems and as you know many have tryed and none have succeed in makeing it, its greed that becomes the problem in the end. my kid was a bit pissed of his present dident arive though -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electic Gen*Anti gravity drive mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 04:08:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24006; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 04:08:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 04:08:02 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971230154816.006caef0@pd.uwa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:07:40 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: "Scalar" Detectors Resent-Message-ID: <"wyNXm.0.-s5.XGEgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 2:48 AM -0500 12/30/97, John Winterflood wrote: >Hi Bob [Paddock] and Ralph, > >Some time ago I asked the question of the freenrg group of "what >are scalar waves". Since no one replied I can only assume :- >1) No one really knows so no one can say anything worth saying. >2) Everybody knows so I should just lurk a bit longer and pick it up. >3) No one can be bothered to try to specify the phenomenon. All of the above... ;-) >Well some months have passed and I still don't know what the hell >they are. I can only guess that they are time variations in the >standard scalar potential (usually called phi) that goes with the >vector potential "A" commonly used as the solution to Maxwell's >equations. what about time variations in the A field itself? >Since you guys seem to be the most knowledgeable on the subject >and have recently pointed others to a "scalar detector" using a >neon bulb I thought I would drop you a quick line to see if my >above guess was correct? well, your guess about me being one of the most knowledgeable is flattering, but wrong. Read some of Bob Shannon's articles on Bill B's "not your average construction project" page: (http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/const.html) >If the standard scalar potential is what is being talked about, I >thought that it was all but undetectable and unmeasurable. I seem >to recall that there is a variant Ahranhov-Bohm experiment that is >supposed to be able to detect it differentially by electron wave- >function interference but as far as I know it has never been done? You should read about Shannon's Barkhausen effect detector, (http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/bark.html) his scalar electrostatic gradiometer, (http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/grado.html) and his scalar regen receiver. (http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/regen.txt). And while you're at it, read every other file with the word 'scalar' in the description... [note to Bill B: you should add links to the neon detector files, http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/neondet.asc http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/diagrams/NEONDET.GIF to your construction page] >So what is your(?) "scalar detector" supposed to be detecting and >how is it supposed to work? Well, my scalar detector is a modified Hodowanec detector as suggested by Shannon in his Barkhausen detector article. This is nothing more than an amplified capacitor. It detects 'events' generated by my scalar signal generator, which is a cheap battery-powered strobe with a bifilar coil (wired in phase-cancellation) in the discharge path. The vector cancellation of the B and E fields creates the scalar 'events'. >I'm happy if you feel inclined to post my question and/or your >answers to the group so that more can benefit. It is worth noting that the original purpose of the Hodowanec detector (http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/gravity/grav3.asc) is to detect gravity waves. With a high-gain input stage, the circuit is just a 1/f noise generator. People who use these things claim to see correlations between the level of 1/f noise and various gravitational 'events'. Ie, 1/f noise is caused by gravity waves. By lowering the gain to a point below that where the circuit breaks into self-oscillation, we can use it to detect scalar 'events'. This would suggest a connection between scalars and gravity... Also worth noting: at one time, I breadboarded a differential instrumentation amplifier, right out of Horowitz and Hill, to try and see what was happening in my detector (a 1uf mylar cap) when it received a scalar 'event'. What I saw (amidst the noise) was a tiny pulse-like thing, which I now recognize as a soliton (see the picture at the bottom of the page http://www.ma.hw.ac.uk/solitons/). This may explain the rather different modes of propagation that are observed for scalars. r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 10:29:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15839; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:29:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:29:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:24:18 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VN1GE2.0.Jt3.7sJgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'm not sure where I saw this or if it is true, but there was a device made merely of two magnet, a lot of wire, and a good battery that was supposed to give off scalars. It looked like this: _________________ / / /| / Wi/re //| /_________/_______/// ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) |_N____________S_|// Scalar Waves |_N____________S_|/ The device had wires wrapped around it as if making an electromagnet out of magnets. Is this for real, or what? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 12:02:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07380; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:02:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:02:36 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:02:11 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors Resent-Message-ID: <"-Kl2.0.Dp1.QDLgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2983 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >I'm not sure where I saw this or if it is true, but there was a device >made merely of two magnet, a lot of wire, and a good battery that was >supposed to give off scalars. It looked like this: > _________________ > / / /| > / Wi/re //| >/_________/_______/// ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) >|_N____________S_|// Scalar Waves >|_N____________S_|/ >The device had wires wrapped around it as if making an electromagnet out >of magnets. >Is this for real, or what? that's the Bedini scalar device. see http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/bedini.txt the actual device includes a noisy DC motor in series with the coil to act as a modulator. there is a rather enigmatic experiment suggested: get two identical audio CD's, bath one with scalar waves, then see if they sound different... (I've never tried this) don't forget the super-glue to hold the magnets together. r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 13:27:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18254; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:27:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:27:17 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:24:01 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: How important is roll away in SMOT? I have had them from the start! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"jcIqa.0.1T4.nSMgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, I just got to thinking about something. I haven't followed the SMOT project very close, but I got roll aways with my layout (about 2 degrees up slope) when Greg first brought it on line. Is this very important? Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 13:58:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09069; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:58:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:58:03 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:52:52 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Plasma and ZPE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5QGMW2.0.XD2.fvMgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Has the Casmir Effect or any other ZPE been tested inside a plasma? Interesting effects might happen if the vacuum between the two plates were ionized? Who knows! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 15:08:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02258; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:07:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:07:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:04:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Appliance Electrical Requirements Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"q3U6j1.0.BZ.vwNgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jerry! > Gnorts Frank, Stefan, et al! Gnorts?!? Jerry wrote in response to something I said recently: > A file about appliance power requirements is available to assist in > determining just how much electrical energy would be needed to run a > modern home, if you are interested; > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/offgrid.txt I had no idea what would and wouldn't work in the 1kW range. It's quite surprising to see that things like 1/2 inch drills fall under that category. 5-10kW would be the largest that someone would need. If they used things like those tabletop convection ovens and microwave ovens, they'd need a lot less (On the order of 1-2kW per device.) > That is what many I know envision, a power supply inside each device we > buy, so that it runs ANYWHERE without need of wires or outside sources. That's how I envision it too- with small external box type units to power the devices in the household that exist now. (There's absolutely NO reason to toss the stuff out because the power sources that they were running on just became obsolete!) > One researcher calls his version a 'perpetual battery' as it uses a tuned > circuit with a short antenna, sealed in epoxy. Interersting. Do we know about this device? Is it something about to show itself? > Forget about massive 50KW units because it is the same old tune, I prefer > to simplify and reduce. 50kW units would be something that you'd power a vehicle off of. You still need to concern yourself with those at some point, but you're right, I'm beginning to believe that we're looking at this all wrong- it's small 2kW or less units we need to look at producing. -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 15:48:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27920; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:48:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:48:20 -0800 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:48:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Can you also call Greg Watson , please ? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"67BqB.0.9q6.3XOgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Well I just called Greg and he is doing fine. His computer was being > upgraded when the main CPU was found to be defective. Greg says he will be > on-line in a couple of days with his web site updated to explain what has > happened since his last post. Cool. The silence from his was beginning to bother me a bit, if you know what I mean. > He says that there is interest to mass produce his SMOT design for the > "executive toy" market. Greg said other vortex and freenrg list members > have called and he said to check his web site for the updates, in a couple > of days. Cool. They OUGHT to sell the things as such. If the Levitron's any indication of how things would be for an executive toy that uses applied physics to operate, they'll make more than enough to develop and manufacture other DMEC related technologies. As for me, I want one of the original kit production run- it's a piece of history that one can hold in their hands. Something about that, being able to touch it- all of a sudden, that history becomes far more real to you than you would or could imagine. -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 15:52:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08974; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:52:00 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:52:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A9A4AA.7D90@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:49:30 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: fearl@airmail.net Subject: Re: Appliance Electrical Requirements References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lQ0e33.0.2C2.UaOgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Frank! Frank Earl wrote; > I had no idea what would and wouldn't work in the 1kW range. It's > quite surprising to see that things like 1/2 inch drills fall under > that category. 5-10kW would be the largest that someone would need. > If they used things like those tabletop convection ovens and > microwave ovens, they'd need a lot less (On the order of 1-2kW per > device.) I was surprised also, I think that is not a steady state load but dependent on the motor being under load, kind of like averaging the surges to something approaching 1KW for a drill motor. Received an email from a couple who use fluorescents in their house. They report since these tubes use only 1/5th the power of an incandescent of equivalent illuminating power, their power bills run about $50 monthly. The recreational vehicle catalogs have all kinds of appliance goodies that run on 12VDC for much less power usage than AC devices. We all know AC is incredibly inefficient compared to DC in short electrical runs. Most electronics have to convert the AC to DC anyway. So, when we get to the point of having these small 'perpetual battery' ZPE taps, we will no doubt be looking for ways to optimize our energy usage. I always got a kick out of the 'Green Acres' TV show with their own gasoline generator. Oliver had the ampere requirement for each appliance taped on the plug. He explained to his wife Lisa that she could only use 7 amps TOTAL at any given time. So, her character being a bit dim, she would invariably plug in more than 7 Amps, blowing the generator. That isn't so far fetched. Like the offgrid.txt document says, when hooked to the grid, the ability to absorb surges is very, very high, but when generating all your own power, you have to take these surges into consideration. Puthoff has it down, just that 1 watt breakthrough and all hell will break loose...seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 18:28:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01820; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:27:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:27:16 -0800 (PST) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:36:02 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"Eh6iy.0.HS._rQgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >identical audio CD's, bath one with scalar waves, then >see if they sound different... (I've never tried this) Don't waste your time on this CD aspect of things. Digital Audio as used in CD's doesn't work in any way that treating it with any thing is going to make a difference scalar or no. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 18:28:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01839; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:27:22 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:27:22 -0800 (PST) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: jwinter@pd.uwa.edu.au Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, rmuha@minimal.com Subject: Re: "Scalar" Detectors Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:15:16 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: <0qaq0UQy8wlH092yn@csonline.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19971230154816.006caef0@pd.uwa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971230154816.006caef0@pd.uwa.edu.au> Lines: 128 Resent-Message-ID: <"fKOMr1.0.dS.6sQgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >I'm happy if you feel inclined to post my question and/or your >answers to the group so that more can benefit. >Some time ago I asked the question of the freenrg group of "what >are scalar waves". Since no one replied I can only assume :- >1) No one really knows so no one can say anything worth saying. Alas some times The Real World gets in the way. Not many that I know of so far has been able to use scalars to put food on the table so the people best able to answer the questions are not always around. So I guess your stuck with me? ;-) >2) Everybody knows so I should just lurk a bit longer and pick it up. If no one ever ask questions then none of us learn. For example you question Ahranhov-Bohm got me to dig into some of my papers to review what it was about. >I can only guess that they are time variations in the >standard scalar potential (usually called phi) that goes with the [snip] >If the standard scalar potential is what is being talked about, I >thought that it was all but undetectable and unmeasurable. I seem >to recall that there is a variant Ahranhov-Bohm experiment that is >supposed to be able to detect it differentially by electron wave- >function interference but as far as I know it has never been done? The experiment has been done with positive results. See "Quantum Interference and the Aharonov-Bohm Effect" by Yoseph Imry and Richard A. Webb in Scientific American April 1989. >From S.A.: "Can electrons be influenced by a nearby magnet so well shielded that its force field cannot be detected? The counterintuitive answer is yes; an energy emanation from the magnet known as the potential does indeed affect the electrons' wave function." "In other words, no conventional manifestation of the shielded magnet's field could be detected. Yet if a beam of electrons where to travel through the vicinity of this shielded magnet, A&B predicted, the phase of the electron wave function would change." "A&B predicted that this effect was due to a physical entity more fundamental than electric and magnetic fields: a potential, whose rate of change over space and times yields the electric and magnetic fields [The often cited Wittker Potentials (See my web site for .PDF files) by T.E.Bearden]." A&B suggest that when a charged particle passes close to but in no manner encounters a magnetic or electric field will change its dynamics in a subtle but measurable way. The consequence of the A&B effect is that the potentials, not the fields, act directly on charges. The 'scalars' that the Free Energy community refer to are one in the same as the A&B effect at the fundamental level. Beyond the fundamental level I don't know enough about it to say except to start with the book "The Holographic Universe" by Talbot and build from there at this point. >Since you guys seem to be the most knowledgeable on the subject >and have recently pointed others to a "scalar detector" using a >neon bulb I thought I would drop you a quick line to see if my >above guess was correct? >So what is your(?) I make no claims that its mine, I'm just doing some of the experiments in this area now. One of the things I've learned is that http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/keelynet/diagrams/neondet.gif requires a resistor between the bulb and the "-" input of the op-amp to keep from loading the minuscule currents in the bulb (0.3 uA). Things didn't seem to be working out. Not sure if it is because of the bulbs (Radio Shacks don't seem to work at all in this application) or some thing I've not got a grip on yet. Got several other manufactures to try but burnt up my power supply in a unrelated experiment. The power supply comes from National Semi.'s LB-47 based on the LM317H. As soon as wife runs out of things for me to do (Does that happen?) I'll get my supply fixed. Since I was not sure what problem I was having with the neondet.gif circuit I decided I'd go back to the more fundamental IEEE papers which have this circuit: C |------------||-------> Sig out | HV+--------wwww--------*-----------------|Gnd resistor Make sure you don't burn out your meter or o'scope from the high voltage spike you get when the bulb extinguishes. >"scalar detector" supposed to be detecting and how is it supposed to work? In the neondet.gif circuit the neon bulb is inside a ring magnet inside a shielded box. This shielding serves the purpose of: "Can electrons be influenced by a nearby magnet so well shielded that its force field cannot be detected?". Not the liquid helium 9.1K sheilding of A&B but what can be done with in reason. The plasma in the bulb is easy to influence (I don't have a good grip on why, see next paragraph for a [bad?] idea) for the purpose of detecting: "the phase of the electron wave function change." In the book "Einstein Doesn't Work Here Any More" they show a conceptional picture of a Dynamic Aether. The Transverse Vector Waves of Hertz 'wave' up and down, like a sine wave, in this Aether. Where a Scalar 'Wave' rarefies (stretches) and compresses the Aether End-To-End as if it was in a vice, like sound does to the air. Keep in mind my understanding of all this is at about the kindergarten level of things. So if I've got it wrong I hope some one lets us all know. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 18:33:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25668; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:33:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:33:14 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:27:59 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: Bob Paddock cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pG64Q1.0.zG6.fxQgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Bob Paddock wrote: > > >identical audio CD's, bath one with scalar waves, then > >see if they sound different... (I've never tried this) > > Don't waste your time on this CD aspect of things. Digital > Audio as used in CD's doesn't work in any way that treating > Obviously plastic-coded CD data can't be affected by Scalar waves, but what about Tape Recordings? If scalar waves were put through it, without bringing the tape into the magnetic fields of the magnets, it may produce some interesting effects, or maybe the waves would't affect the tape? What do scalar waves do to iron fillings? Just an idea... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 19:08:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09303; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:08:18 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:08:18 -0800 (PST) To: isonix@concentric.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:52:31 -0800 Subject: Re: "Bifilar Waveguide" and PAGD Message-ID: <19971230.185624.11894.0.tv@juno.com> References: <01BD1446.716A4CA0@ts002d09.mer-id.concentric.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-6,8-15,17-18,25-26,28-29,31-34,37-46,48-70 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"9bpcs1.0.EH2.WSRgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Paul, It is certainly a pleasure to hear from you and to know that rumors of your demise were greatly exaggerated ! For a while there, I was pretty sad. It was certainly a mean spirited hoax from a sick mind. I am very interested in the PAGD device of Correa so I took particular interest in your comments about it. >Paul Brown said: >What is an Abnormal Glow Discharge? If it is a newly discovered = >phenomena, then clarify it so that others with enough competence may = >develop it into applied technology. > It would seem so. I understand from reading the writings of Correa that considerable care is required to prepare the electrode surfaces. The Abnormal Glow Discharge phenomena was not first discovered or named by Correa. It is in the references given by Correa in his patent and other documents. As you probably know, Paulo and Alexandra Correa say they started their investigations based on observations they made studying the behavior of X-ray tubes, but they also say that they spent considerable time investigating the VACOR tubes of the odd Dr. Riech of orgone fame which they say is not the PAGD effect. Do you know of any independent verification of the PAGD effect of Correa ? I wonder what would happen if a some alpha emmiter where added to the tubes to enhance the ionization ? Some years ago you wrote me about an effect you had observed concerning anomalous energy production in a resonant chamber. You thought that this had something to do with the Radiant Energy device of Moray. What is your current view of the function of Dr. Moray's device ? Best Holiday Wishes, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:42:07 -0700 Paul Brown writes: > >------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1446.716A4CA0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >In reading the Correa patents, the technique is extremely simple. The >= >tube itself is of simple construction, after all it is only a glow = >discharge tube provided with a couple of extra electrodes. Then, how >can = >anyone do it wrong? Patents are supposed to be written in such a >manner = >that anyone versed in the art can pick up the patent and replicate the >= >work contained therein; that is the purpose of a patent-very clear = >description and claims. Not so when we read the Correa patent, these = >documents should have never left the patent office. There is so much = >double talk that the examiner could not have understood the inventors >= >claims, neither will any enforcement action in the future, should it = >ever become an issue, since no one knows what they are talking about. >= From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 19:46:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06520; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:46:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:46:00 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Appliance Electrical Requirements Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:45:45 GMT Message-ID: <34aabbd4.20541016@mail.zip.com.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA06484 Resent-Message-ID: <"PJNdT2.0.nb1.s_Rgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:04:29 +0000, "Frank C. Earl" wrote: _>Hi Jerry! _>> Gnorts Frank, Stefan, et al! _>Gnorts?!? A salutation which began on the vortex-l list. Take the name "Neil Armstrong". Spell it backwards. It becomes "Gnorts Mr Alien". Some on vortex-l say "Gnorts, Vorts" _>I had no idea what would and wouldn't work in the 1kW range. It's _>quite surprising to see that things like 1/2 inch drills fall under _>that category. 5-10kW would be the largest that someone would need. _>If they used things like those tabletop convection ovens and _>microwave ovens, they'd need a lot less (On the order of 1-2kW per _>device.) Don't forget the humble horseless carriage . That requires a goodly few kW's. Electric ranges are fairly power hungry too, as are electric hot water systems and central heating/air conditioning units. You'd probably need a minimum of a 10kW unit or so to power an average house from the existing power feed for a few years (decades?) until everything had worn out and been replaced with new units incorporating their own power. Likewise for office/residential complexes, factories etc, where one would probably require several hundred kW units for the same reasons. Wishing you all a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year. And, *Please*!, a working, easily reproduceable (preferably on the average kitchen table!), non-trivial in magnitude free energy unit fairly early in the year! Cheers, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 19:56:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07907; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:56:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:56:10 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:55:52 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors Resent-Message-ID: <"OQ6mR2.0.Lx1.O9Sgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 3:36 PM -0500 12/30/97, Bob Paddock wrote: >>identical audio CD's, bath one with scalar waves, then >>see if they sound different... (I've never tried this) > >Don't waste your time on this CD aspect of things. Digital >Audio as used in CD's doesn't work in any way that treating >it with any thing is going to make a difference scalar or no. Have you tried it? If it is a waste, then why does he suggest it in such a way as to indicate that there will be a noticeable difference? Here's the experiment: >Purchase two identical music CDs. Listen to both to verify that >they are identical. Now let the "scalar beam" play all over the >surface of one of the CDs for about one minute. You may want >to build a simple rotating platform to make this process more >convenient. Now play the two CDs and compare them again. Hear >any difference? (Note, this process is patent pending, so do not >use it for any other purpose except to demonstrate the reality >of the effect) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 19:59:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17227; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:58:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:58:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A8CC90.299A@dove.net.au> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:27:28 -0800 From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Big Brother is watching you References: <3.0.1.32.19971229175444.006b6588@multinet.net.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dlVY83.0.2D4.vBSgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This one first appeared just prior to the release of Windows-95, there were a number of persons that totally misunderstood the function of the "Registration Database" - I guess the naming of this function was a bad one - although it accurately reflects exactly what the routine does. According to the "doomsayers", this Windows function would check the registration of programs / software existing on your hard drive. CORRECT. They also tried to give the impression that, each time you linked to Microstuft.com "it" ( The Registry ) would Tattle-tale about what you had on your machine, and check against a Software Registration database that lives with Bill Gates. What the registry basically does, is keep track within your OWN LOCAL version of Win-95, the software that is available to be accessed by Win-95, i.e if you "recycle" a program to the trash, then Windows will not / should not, waste time trying to load short cuts etc etc the next time that you start up Win-95. This function is similar - but a lot more advanced than the system used in Win 3.1 / 3.11 ( WFW ), if you have that take a look at your WIN.INI file, you can see a list of file types - and the programs that are used to run them, i.e .WKS .WPS .WDB = C:\WORKS ... etc etc Get the idea ? I do not recommend that you play around with the Windows Registry, if you get inside there and make changes - you can upset your copy of '95 to such an extent that many applications will fail to run correctly (if at all). Like - " If it Ain't broken - Don't try to fix it " My apologies to any fellow Windows Software developers, that feel that I have over-simplified the reason for the Registry - and its functionality, most readers of this list have far better things to do, than worry about what happens inside their P.C's. :) Sorry for being a long way off-topic, but I thought that this rumour had been put to bed a while ago. While I have the floor ........ All the best for 1998 - "The (unofficial) International Year of F.E" ! Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 20:25:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23331; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:24:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:24:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34A9D492.2E23@aeneas.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:13:54 -0600 From: Mark Mansfield Reply-To: mmans@aeneas.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: Re: Appliance Electrical Requirements References: <34A9A4AA.7D90@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DhoON3.0.Si5.BaSgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jerry and All, You asked about the WIN generator the other day, well I spoke to Don Kelly today and he said that it is in the patent process and that some problems with it was fixed. I got the impression that until the thing was patented, nothing was going to happen to bring it to market. It will be interesting to see if anything ever comes to market. We have cussed and discussed this all before so I'll not get into that here. I look forward for any kind of reproducible o/u generation system. Hopefully some day.... Happy New Year! Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 20:32:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18148; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:31:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:31:48 -0800 Message-ID: <34A9D676.7541@aeneas.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:21:58 -0600 From: Mark Mansfield Reply-To: mmans@aeneas.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Bifilar Waveguide" and PAGD References: <01BD1446.716A4CA0@ts002d09.mer-id.concentric.net> <19971230.185624.11894.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qWWYW2.0.RR4.pgSgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tim D Vaughan wrote: > >In reading the Correa patents, the technique is extremely simple. The Could someone give me the patent numbers referenced here? Thanks in advance, Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 20:39:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26046; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:38:30 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:38:30 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:37:11 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors Resent-Message-ID: <"WHXUn1.0.nM6._mSgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:55 PM -0500 12/30/97, ralph muha wrote: >Have you tried it? If it is a waste, then why does he suggest >it in such a way as to indicate that there will be a noticeable >difference? Here's the experiment: > >>Purchase two identical music CDs. Listen to both to verify that >>they are identical. Now let the "scalar beam" play all over the >>surface of one of the CDs for about one minute. You may want >>to build a simple rotating platform to make this process more >>convenient. Now play the two CDs and compare them again. Hear >>any difference? (Note, this process is patent pending, so do not >>use it for any other purpose except to demonstrate the reality >>of the effect) I found the patent that was pending... http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5487057 > 5487057 : Apparatus and method for reducing electronic relaxation > noise present information recording medium > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > INVENTORS: Bedini; John C., Coeur d'Alene, ID > ASSIGNEES: Bedini Electronics, Inc., Coeur d'Alene, ID > ISSUED: Jan. 23, 1996 FILED: June 22, 1994 > SERIAL NUMBER: 264074 MAINT. STATUS: > INTL. CLASS (Ed. 6): G11B 7/00; > U.S. CLASS: 369-107; 369-126; > FIELD OF SEARCH: 369-107,126 ; > AGENTS: Walsh; Thomas G.; > > ABSTRACT: A method and apparatus is provided for reducing relaxation > noise in a conducting medium. The device is fabricated by affixing two > magnets at like, repelling poles; wrapping said magnets with a coil of > wire in an orientation orthogonal to the interface between the joined > magnets and the like poles of the magnets to form a magnetic unit; > connecting said coil to a motor means, an electrical power supply > means and a switch means; attaching a spindle to said motor means. The > spindle receives said conducting medium. The apparatus can be in a > housing. The conducting medium is placed on said spindle. By > activating the device, a modulated magnetic electromagnetic field is > created simultaneous to the spinning of the conducting medium. The > information recording medium rotates through the modulated > electromagnetic field, thereby reducing the relaxation noise. > > U.S. REFERENCES: none > (No patents reference this one) > > EXEMPLARY CLAIM(s): Show all 19 claims > > What is claimed is: > > * 14. A method for reducing relaxation noise in an information > recording medium comprising rotating said information recording > medium through a non-visible modulated electromagnetic field. > > RELATED U.S. APPLICATIONS: > Patent No.Appl No. Issue Date > 15897 > 897892 > 521690 > > FOREIGN APPLICATION PRIORITY DATA: none > FOREIGN REFERENCES: none > > OTHER REFERENCES: > > * H. C. Ohanian, "On The Aproach of Electro-Magneto-Static > Equilibrium", Am. Journal of Physics, vol. 51, Nov., 1983, pp. > 1020-1022. > * Erik J. Bochove and John Walkup, "A Communication on Electrical > Charge Relaxation in Metals", Am. Journal of Physics, vol. 58, > pp. 131-134, Feb. 1990. > * Electronics Engineer's Reference Book, 5th Edn., Ed. by F. Mazda, > 1983, p. 50/3. > * B. Yavorsky and A. Detlaf, Handbook of Physics, MIR Publishers, > Moscow, revised from the Russian 1977 edition, p. 178. > * Webster's II New Riverside University Dictionary, 1984, p. 992. > * H. S. Min and Doyeol Ahn, "Lengevin Noise Sources for the > Boltzmann Transport Equations with the Relaxation-time > Approximation in Nondegenerate Semiconductors", J. ofApplied > Physics, vol. 58 (6), Sep. 15, 1985, pp. 2262-2265. > * S. Vitale et. al., "Magnetic Viscosity, Thermal Relaxation, and > Thermal Equilibrium Noise in Co-based Amorphous Alloys at > MilliKelvin Temperatures", J. of Applied Physics, vol. 72 (10), > Nov. 15, 1992, pp. 4820-4825. > * K. G. Moh, et. at., "Equivalent Noise Source for Boltzmann > Transport Equation with Relaxation-time Approximation in > Nondegenerate Semiconductors", J. of Applied Physics, vol. 74 > (10), Nov., 15, 1993, pp. 6217-6221. > > PRIMARY/ASSISTANT EXAMINERS: Epps; Georgia Y.; Chu; Kim-Kwok > ADDED TO DATABASE: Aug. 24, 1996 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 20:59:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28748; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:58:43 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:58:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:57:36 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Appliance Electrical Requirements To: "Frank C. Earl" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"O6lRE3.0.517._3Tgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Frank C. Earl wrote: > Hi Jerry! > > > Gnorts Frank, Stefan, et al! > > Gnorts?!? > I didn't know what this meant until someone mentioned on the vortex-l list that it is a greeting that came about from the first manned US moon landing, the full greeting being gnorts mr alien (Now read it backwards!) Happy New Year to all, Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 20:59:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21773; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:59:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:59:26 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:54:07 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BMW3S2.0.6K5.j4Tgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, ralph muha wrote: > At 3:36 PM -0500 12/30/97, Bob Paddock wrote: > >>identical audio CD's, bath one with scalar waves, then > >>see if they sound different... (I've never tried this) > > > >Don't waste your time on this CD aspect of things. Digital > >Audio as used in CD's doesn't work in any way that treating > >it with any thing is going to make a difference scalar or no. > > Have you tried it? If it is a waste, then why does he suggest > it in such a way as to indicate that there will be a noticeable > difference? Here's the experiment: > > >Purchase two identical music CDs. Listen to both to verify that > >they are identical. Now let the "scalar beam" play all over the > >surface of one of the CDs for about one minute. You may want > >to build a simple rotating platform to make this process more > >convenient. Now play the two CDs and compare them again. Hear > >any difference? (Note, this process is patent pending, so do not > >use it for any other purpose except to demonstrate the reality > >of the effect) Cd's are made out of plastic and a reflective surface. Some of the bits, called holes (obviously) are tilted, where some are flat. These are pits and lands, respectivley. Magnetic waves have NO effects whatsoever on plastic or tinfoil. Where as they should affect the magnetic tape, as long as the tape is not affected by the natural magnetic waves from the two magnets. Just so ya know :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 21:42:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29378; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:40:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:40:18 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:40:07 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HZYBc3.0.xA7.1hTgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, ralph muha wrote: > I found the patent that was pending... > > http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5487057 > > > 5487057 : Apparatus and method for reducing electronic relaxation > > noise present information recording medium > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > INVENTORS: Bedini; John C., Coeur d'Alene, ID > > ASSIGNEES: Bedini Electronics, Inc., Coeur d'Alene, ID > > ISSUED: Jan. 23, 1996 FILED: June 22, 1994 > > SERIAL NUMBER: 264074 MAINT. STATUS: > > INTL. CLASS (Ed. 6): G11B 7/00; > > U.S. CLASS: 369-107; 369-126; > > FIELD OF SEARCH: 369-107,126 ; > > AGENTS: Walsh; Thomas G.; > > > > ABSTRACT: A method and apparatus is provided for reducing relaxation > > noise in a conducting medium. The device is fabricated by affixing two > > magnets at like, repelling poles; wrapping said magnets with a coil of > > wire in an orientation orthogonal to the interface between the joined > > magnets and the like poles of the magnets to form a magnetic unit; > > connecting said coil to a motor means, an electrical power supply > > means and a switch means; attaching a spindle to said motor means. The > > spindle receives said conducting medium. The apparatus can be in a > > housing. The conducting medium is placed on said spindle. By > > activating the device, a modulated magnetic electromagnetic field is > > created simultaneous to the spinning of the conducting medium. The > > information recording medium rotates through the modulated > > electromagnetic field, thereby reducing the relaxation noise. > > I feel I have a good understanding of what scalar waves are. The thing about the above patent is that a CD is not a conducting medium; it's a reflecting medium. Basically, the aluminum (or gold in some cases) is arranged on the disk so that it will reflect a laser beam as a pattern of "1"s and "0"s (digitally-encoded analog signal). The basic CD player splits a laser into 3 separate beams which are reflected off the CD and focussed by a lens onto a matrix of diode light detectors in a pattern like this: O O O O O O This pattern enables both the focus and tracking functions to be controlled by relatively simple servo circuits. The reflections from the CD, being from 3 beams of different paths, result in what is called an "eye pattern" RF signal from the diodes which is decoded by filtering circuits and sent to a D/A converter. Up to this point, provided that the laser has sufficient output and the servos are all working correctly, there is no noise in the system other than what was present in the original recording. The D/A converters of course add quantization noise and the following analog circuits add their own noise. These can be filtered to some extent. A degraded CD (scratched or dirty surface) also adds some amounts of noise, but I haven't noticed it with a new, clean CD. If the CD player circuits were being treated with the abovementioned patent-pending device, I could see there may be some possibility of noise reduction in some way. But I can't comprehend how the treatment would affect the reflective pattern on the CD itself. Any suggestions? I WILL have to try it. Since I am also an audiophile with a good ear, I should be able to tell the difference if there is one. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 21:44:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29777; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:44:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:44:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:39:07 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Scalar Waves and Plasma Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Aw1Jc1.0.5H7.nkTgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Would scalar waves set at a microwave frequency (if possible) cause any change to plasma balls observed in "Microwave Ball Lightning"? Could be used to direct them or make them larger, who knows? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 03:56:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA29816; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:56:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:56:24 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:55:14 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Scalar Waves and Plasma Resent-Message-ID: <"PuiE22.0.nH7.dBZgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com HackEd wrote: > Would scalar waves set at a microwave > frequency (if possible) cause any change to > plasma balls observed in "Microwave Ball > Lightning"? Could be used to direct them or > make them larger, who knows? I always wondered what would happen if they were up a bit from there - light frequencies. Could you see by scalar light? How many colors? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 03:56:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07256; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:55:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:55:35 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:55:17 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors Resent-Message-ID: <"5moKf3.0.Bn1.rAZgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Zack wrote: > But I can't comprehend how the treatment > would affect the reflective pattern on the CD > itself. Any suggestions? Like the old pyramid razor-blade sharpener? Cleans dirt out of the holes, I suppose. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 03:56:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA29839; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:56:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:56:34 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:55:21 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: How important is roll away in SMOT? I have had them from the start! Resent-Message-ID: <"7umcz2.0.8I7.lBZgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Butch - > I haven't followed the SMOT project very > close, but I got roll aways with my layout > (about 2 degrees up slope) when Greg first > brought it on line. Is this very important? It's huge. Can you duplicate and video tape it? Can you get a second ramp to do level rollaways too? Perhaps pass it around to a few others - like EarthTech or Gene Mallove? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 06:18:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21155; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 06:18:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 06:18:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:20:10 -0600 (CST) From: "Frank C. Earl" X-Sender: fearl@localhost To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Qz-PE.0.SA5.mGbgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, HackEd wrote: > Cd's are made out of plastic and a reflective surface. Some of the bits, > called holes (obviously) are tilted, where some are flat. These are pits > and lands, respectivley. Magnetic waves have NO effects whatsoever on > plastic or tinfoil. Where as they should affect the magnetic tape, as > long as the tape is not affected by the natural magnetic waves from the > two magnets. Just so ya know :) There is some confusion as to the manufacture of CDs. They are pressed in polycarbonate from off of a glass master disk and then covered with some reflective material to make the pits stand out on the disk. Aluminum powder is (supposedly) used in most production CDs and vapor deposited gold is used in the high-end ones. I suspect that John's little device jiggles about the powder enough to lower the distortion of the signal (Even though it's digital, there's little done in the way of error correction on audio CDs (Unless it's massive, like a scratch, most people won't have the equipment to be able to hear it) and with high-end stereo equipment, you're going to hear the bit errors from off of a compact disk.). I think the thing works as advertised- but only with the mass produced CDs. The gold based audiophile disks probably are at the level that the Clarifier produces in the normal CDs. Also, unless you're an audiophile and have that $2000+ stereo with that $1000+ CD deck, you're NOT going to notice any difference anyhow. -- Frank Earl Earl Consulting Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a $500 archival fee per copy. E-mail recieved after any reciept of this notice implys acceptance of these terms. A copy of USC 47 may be found online at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 07:34:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20476; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:33:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:33:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971231153209.26695.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: mr mojo Subject: Re: SMOT & Greg Watson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"dXmle3.0.p_4.DNcgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com No I was thinking about putting a coil along the track, when the ball rolls up the track, it changes the flux in the coil as it moves. The changing flux then induces a current in the coil. Can you get much out, not likely( speed of the ball through the ramp, etc.) But a closed loop device could in theory generate some power... ---Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:58:36 -0800 (PST), mr mojo wrote: > [snip] > >9) has anyone thought about getting real work out of a smot. A little > >thought will reveal how to do it... I leave this as an exercise for > >the reader. (Hint: an object moving through a magnet field generates > >a current and voltage). > [snip] > So if model railroad tracks are used, a voltage might appear across > the two tracks. If so, then any excess energy can easily be measured > by reducing the external resistance across the tracks, until the ball > no longer completes a circuit. At that point power production is > easily calculated from voltage and external resistance. > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on > temperature. > "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." > PS - no SPAM thanks! > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 09:15:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02549; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:15:26 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:15:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34AA2368.1CB7@dove.net.au> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 02:50:16 -0800 From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT / RMOG and next .... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uXqBU2.0.jd.isdgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well this is my first post of 1998. and it's a LONG one. On the subject of useful applications for the SMOT .. I have for a while considered that the "teeter-totter", could have been the way to go, whether or not the returned energy pulses would be capable of providing a useful output was always the main question that I had. Sure we can charge a capacitor bank, and then use the stored energy, but we are certainly NOT talking about high current drain here are we ! RMOG and generation ... If Greg Watsons meeting with a well known canadian, results in what we hope it will, then maybe some of my OWN experiences may be useful. ( At last - something I can really add to ) ! :-) I worked for a few years in the "Solar & Alternative" energy field, one of my tasks as a consultant, was to carry out an "energy audit" for potential clients. This involved examining their potential (no pun) lifestyle, and the types and ranges of electricity needs that they would have, remember that I was basically designing for Australian "Outback" customers, no power grid - or if there was, the costs of being connected to the grid were likely to be prohibitive. By way of example, one of my major clients was located not 20 kilometres from Adelaide, the capital city of South Australia, the property that he had purchased was 5 kilometres from the nearest power "run", he requested a full "electric house", the customer ran a company that designed and installed Kitchens ( the complete domestic variety ), therfore - just about everything that opened and shut, was required to do so with electricity. Our company carried out a "site survey", we measured the average wind speed, direction and reliability, along with solar levels for a number of weeks, while the site was being prepared, the client had received a quotation from the supply authority for just over $52,000 (aust) to provide power to the site, this would have been a standard 60 Amp Single phase 240 volt supply - (thats 120 Amps/ 120 for my U.S cousins). After the audit, and the survey, we found that wind power at that site was not a viable primary supply option, but solar insolation levels would provide adequate power - PROVIDED that a suitably large solar array was installed. I will not bore you with the design process or details, suffice to say that in the final design the domestic requirements totalled 6 Kilowatts as a daily requirement, the biggest users (suckers) of power were for ANYTHING related to either HEATING or COOLING, He needed pumps to get water up from a large U-ground rainwater storage tank, and wanted all power to be available "On Demand". I paralled 2 x 5KVA, 240 Volt inverters, had a 10KVA diesel Generator for back up, this would also charge the 48 Volt batteries, when it went online. ( Synching the phase of genset and inverter was a nightmare ). This house when completed was the second largest Solar / independent private dwelling in the Southern Hemisphere at that time. A great design task, that really tested my skills and ingenuity. (P.s - it worked well, but have any of you tried feeding 40mm sq copper cables down "curvy"conduit - fun - NOT ) ! So that is a working example of a "large" load situation. MOST of my clients were ( what we in Australia call "Blockies", that is someone that purchased their "Gods own acres", miles from power supplies). These user had much more modest power requirements, we COULD get away with a 600 Watt to 1 Kilowatt Inverter system, BUT .. we often had to provide either mechanical ( read manually switched ), or automatic switching to "share the load", by this I mean - a logic of ... " If the Fridge compressor is running, then INHIBIT the washing machine or Water pump from attempting to start up ". I know that you guys understand what I mean by this, motors are by far the biggest pain, they insist upon a high starting current, BUT once running will happily integrate with other system power loads. RMOG @ 1 KW WILL indeed solve many problems for many users, particularly in the regions / areas that Greg has projected it will be employed, by the same token please be aware that until our overall global energy needs - that is "appliance efficiency" is reduced dramatically, 1 KW will not solve ALL of your problems. More power to Greg (no pun), this is indeed a large step in the right direction and who knows, if the RMOG can deliver an eventual greater level of energy - this could just be it. O.k soapbox session ends, I am now putting on my "flameproof suit" and await responses - OR other design tasks, come guys I need the work ! :-) Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 09:24:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22738; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:24:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:24:24 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:19:08 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Possibly Offtopic: How does Ion Propulsion work? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3sZ3J2.0.9Z5.7_dgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I've always wondered how Ion Propulsion worked, and now, lately, I heard someone say it works on heated plasma. So how does it all work? Ionic winds? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 09:30:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05320; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:29:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:29:40 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:28:22 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors Resent-Message-ID: <"-AzhW.0.xI1.z3egq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 9:20 AM -0500 12/31/97, Frank C. Earl wrote: >disk.). I think the thing works as advertised- but only with the mass >produced CDs. The gold based audiophile disks probably are at the level >that the Clarifier produces in the normal CDs. Also, unless you're an >audiophile and have that $2000+ stereo with that $1000+ CD deck, you're >NOT going to notice any difference anyhow. the patent describes several tests. the most interesting is performed with photo-CD's, saving image files as postscript and comparing the before and after results... I would if a difference would be noted by extracting a track of an audio-CD and saving it as an AIFF file? the patent also claims that the device will clarify exposed photographic film, by treating it before development... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 09:36:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24948; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:35:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:35:52 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:30:37 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KZOdU3.0.b56.s9egq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, ralph muha wrote: > At 9:20 AM -0500 12/31/97, Frank C. Earl wrote: > >disk.). I think the thing works as advertised- but only with the mass > >produced CDs. The gold based audiophile disks probably are at the level > >that the Clarifier produces in the normal CDs. Also, unless you're an > >audiophile and have that $2000+ stereo with that $1000+ CD deck, you're > >NOT going to notice any difference anyhow. > > the patent describes several tests. the most interesting is performed > with photo-CD's, saving image files as postscript and comparing the > before and after results... > > I would if a difference would be noted by extracting a track of > an audio-CD and saving it as an AIFF file? > > the patent also claims that the device will clarify exposed photographic > film, by treating it before development... > > r The photo-CD idea could help, as long as the CD was "cleaned" by these waves BEFORE the pictures were taken. Otherwise, any info written on with dirt in the way wouldn't make. Then again, if the CD-ROM can burn through the plastic, dirt shouldn't hurt. Though I could see where cleaning the CD would help clean the image. Also, "cleaning" a photograph withit would probably knock loose and of the dirt on the picture, increasing its quality. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 10:19:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13689; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:19:12 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:19:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34AA8D09.ECE1D8C1@psu.edu> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:20:58 -0500 From: Scott Peterson Reply-To: sdp127@psu.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Appliance Electrical Requirements References: <34A9A4AA.7D90@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e8qjc.0.ZL3.Noegq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > I was surprised also, I think that is not a steady state load but > dependent on the motor being under load, kind of like averaging the > surges to something approaching 1KW for a drill motor. > The recreational vehicle catalogs have all kinds of appliance goodies > that run on 12VDC for much less power usage than AC devices. We all know > AC is incredibly inefficient compared to DC in short electrical runs. > > Most electronics have to convert the AC to DC anyway. So, when we get to > the point of having these small 'perpetual battery' ZPE taps, we will no > doubt be looking for ways to optimize our energy usage. People doing the Earthship thing have experience in using DC/battery systems to power everything. Things like RMOG's, "Scalar battery chargers" and the like would be quite complimentary, and allow even more comfortable living "off the grid". http://www.earthship.org/pom.htm Granted they are set up for solar power, active and passive, but additional self contained power would allow these housing designs to be used in colder, less sunny climates. How about "neighborhood" power generation? Something like a solar powered steam engine feeding a large battery system. "ZPE" type technologies and a reduction in consuption are what will save our butts! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 11:07:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19216; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:06:39 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:06:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:18:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"OJSsb3.0.8i4.zUfgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > I'm not sure where I saw this or if it is true, but there was a device > made merely of two magnet, a lot of wire, and a good battery that was > supposed to give off scalars. It looked like this: > _________________ > / / /| > / Wi/re //| > /_________/_______/// ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) > |_N____________S_|// Scalar Waves > |_N____________S_|/ > The device had wires wrapped around it as if making an electromagnet out > of magnets. Yeah, it was something that John Bedini graciously provided to the 'net. I don't remember off the top of my head if the magnet polarity you're showing is right- I think it was supposed to be north poles inward and south poles outward. But that's it's origin. > Is this for real, or what? Yeah, I think so. I've not tried the thing but the device in question is the heart of John's patented Clarifier and Ultra Clarifier CD enhancement machines. Audiophiles seem to think that the thing works- been claiming so for about 1-2 years now from my recollection of it. -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 11:34:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23298; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:33:30 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:33:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971231193205.27224.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:32:05 -0800 (PST) From: mr mojo Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"he6Co1.0.wh5.7ufgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ---"Frank C. Earl" wrote: > > > > On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, HackEd wrote: > > > Cd's are made out of plastic and a reflective surface. Some of the bits, > > called holes (obviously) are tilted, where some are flat. These are pits > > and lands, respectivley. Magnetic waves have NO effects whatsoever on > > plastic or tinfoil. Where as they should affect the magnetic tape, as > > long as the tape is not affected by the natural magnetic waves from the > > two magnets. Just so ya know :) > > There is some confusion as to the manufacture of CDs. They are pressed > in polycarbonate from off of a glass master disk and then covered with > some reflective material to make the pits stand out on the disk. Aluminum > powder is (supposedly) used in most production CDs and vapor deposited > gold is used in the high-end ones. I suspect that John's little device > jiggles about the powder enough to lower the distortion of the signal > (Even though it's digital, there's little done in the way of error > correction on audio CDs (Unless it's massive, like a scratch, most people > won't have the equipment to be able to hear it) and with high-end stereo > equipment, you're going to hear the bit errors from off of a compact > disk.). I think the thing works as advertised- but only with the mass > produced CDs. The gold based audiophile disks probably are at the level > that the Clarifier produces in the normal CDs. Also, unless you're an > audiophile and have that $2000+ stereo with that $1000+ CD deck, you're > NOT going to notice any difference anyhow. > We have now entered the area of magic... maybe I choose the correct pen name after all... I see no way that putting a CD in a field of any type will change (exception: microwave ovens are not good for CDs). The data is either a one or a zero. That will not change... I have also seen a reference to a photo CD file. If the image on a phot CD can be made better by exposure to scalar waves, then we have done magic. A photo CD has a series of images saved in a compressed format. To change the quality we need to change the file format, since the ones and zeroes are burned on the disk, it becomes VERY hard to change the file format.. I also believe that CD audio disks have a few bytes in each data block that contain some simple error correcting data. This lets the player deal with minor defects in the CD surface. Next we will hear that you can expose a dead HD to scalar waves and recover all the data, or better yet convert win 3.1 to win 95....... I have looked at John Bendini's web site. I have doubts about what he claims. I do not think that he has had any of his work duplicated properely. I for one would like to have a copy of his 800 lb 10Kw generator in my basement... if it worked. enough ramblings.. a good new year to all mr_mojoman _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 11:37:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23786; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:36:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:36:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <01BD15E9.91F8B200.reed@zenergy.com> From: Reed Huish Reply-To: "reed@zenergy.com" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'jdecker@keelynet.com'" Subject: RE: Appliance Electrical Requirements Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:50:29 -0700 Organization: Zenergy Corporation X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l0hf8.0.Wp5.4xfgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > You asked about the WIN generator the other day, well I spoke to > Don Kelly today and he said that it is in the patent process and > that some problems with it was fixed. I got the impression that > until the thing was patented, nothing was going to happen to bring > it to market. It will be interesting to see if anything ever comes > to market. We have cussed and discussed this all before so I'll not > get into that here. I look forward for any kind of reproducible > o/u generation system. The patent on Win Lambertson's device has never been an issue to determine whether to market. We funded two engineering tests on his prototype at different times in 96-97, and while Win said he learned a lot from those results, his device did not test o/u. Before another expensive engineering test was conducted, we agreed that everyone had to be convinced the results were there. He has recently reported he is achieving results in the 140-180% range, and once stability problems are solved we will be ready to try certification again in early 98. Assuming positive certification results are there, the next step is to build a 1-10 kW self-running unit, then begin the marketing/licensing process. - Reed Huish Zenergy http://zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 12:00:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20886; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:00:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:00:12 -0800 Message-ID: <34AAC006.469D@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:58:30 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "reed@zenergy.com" CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Appliance Electrical Requirements References: <01BD15E9.91F8B200.reed@zenergy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dJtXT3.0.F65.AHggq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3016 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Reed et al! Thanks for the update on Lambertsen. I hope you guys get it together, I'll buy one if it works overunity and can drive a load in the ranges you suggest (1KW to 10KW)....though I think Puthoff is closer to what MUST HAPPEN before we even imagine 1KW.....lets just concentrate on that tabletop 1 Watt demo...from there it will be like dominoes falling... Looks like 1998 might be it, finally, but I won't hold my breath since no details (how it works, how to duplicate or where to buy) have been provided on anything I've yet heard of or seen. Minato is said to be building his 4 self-running magnetic wheel units, connected together and planned to power 30 houses. CNN is supposed to cover it when he is ready. I am greatly looking forward to that one. Many of us were hoping he would freely release the low-level plans for how to make a magnetic self-running bicycle wheel. This would really get a lot of attention drawn from investors and researchers when 14 year olds around the world are building PPMs in their garage, entered in local science fairs, etc... There is also supposed to be a guy out in California who has been supplying something like 3KW from a 9 volt battery for two months continuous. I know, another apocryphal story, but that's what I was told....my contact was supposed to visit this guy and check out the machine. Sounds like Newman though I'm told it is just a circuit. Don Smith down in Houston also continues to claim his device works and he sells them for about $2,000. But I've never seen it running or feeding power to anything. Three of us tried to get it to work at a conference years ago and it wouldn't even light a small fluorescent tube. Don later said when he got it home, it was a faulty crimped wire connection not letting the high freq signal get through. He is an interesting guy and means well, but it either works or it doesn't. Happy New Year! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 12:01:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26817; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:01:15 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:01:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:54:52 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors In-Reply-To: <19971231193205.27224.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"m8KD_.0.tY6.8Iggq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3017 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com By sending these Scalar waves at the CD surface, it may knock off minute particles of dirt, clarifying the signal coming to and from the CD. Just a guess. We were NOT thinking of "working miracles" by editing the actual data on the CD, just cleaning off the surface to allow for fewer missed bits. "No miracles are worked here, only science."- Famous Quote From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 12:31:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00644; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:30:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:30:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:29:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712312029.OAA09667@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: How important is roll away in SMOT? I have had them from the To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"kJKAl3.0.w9.pjggq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com RM wrote: > >Butch - > > > I haven't followed the SMOT project very > > close, but I got roll aways with my layout > > (about 2 degrees up slope) when Greg first > > brought it on line. Is this very important? > >It's huge. Can you duplicate and video tape it? Can you get a second >ramp to do level rollaways too? Perhaps pass it around to a few others >- like EarthTech or Gene Mallove? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI ======================================================================= What? Duplicate? Videotape? Pass to others? My word! Is this a politically correct thing to do on this list? Exactly what RWW said needed to be done three months ago. Now comes revisionism and the accuracy of 20-20 hindsight. But beware, Butch, now Rick M. is asking you to hold your hand up. Sincerely, the truest of all believers, RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 13:54:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12356; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:54:06 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:54:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34AAE902.19D2@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:53:22 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FAA4c3.0.z03.yxhgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3019 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ralph muha wrote: > > At 3:36 PM -0500 12/30/97, Bob Paddock wrote: > >>identical audio CD's, bath one with scalar waves, then > >>see if they sound different... (I've never tried this) > > > >Don't waste your time on this CD aspect of things. Digital > >Audio as used in CD's doesn't work in any way that treating > >it with any thing is going to make a difference scalar or no. > > Have you tried it? If it is a waste, then why does he suggest > it in such a way as to indicate that there will be a noticeable > difference? Here's the experiment: I've tried it. I used a diagnostic CD reader to perform binary comparisons of the CD with its binary image before and after. No effect was detected. If you read Bearden's work, you might see that Bedini's device might only be modulating opposed (distorted) magnetic fields, not actually summing flux to zero as Bearden seems to describe. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 14:50:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20973; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:49:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:49:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971231164946.006a2324@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:49:46 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re:Scalar CD cleaner... In-Reply-To: References: <19971231193205.27224.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"spdxj3.0.c75.Dmigq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3020 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All... At 13:54 12/31/97 -0600, HackEd wrote: >By sending these Scalar waves at the CD surface, it may knock off minute >particles of dirt, clarifying the signal coming to and from the CD. Just >a guess. We were NOT thinking of "working miracles" by editing the actual >data on the CD, just cleaning off the surface to allow for fewer missed >bits. "No miracles are worked here, only science."- Famous Quote Then why not just wipe the dirt off with a lens cleaning cloth? Sorry, I'm with Mr. Mojo on this one...it's just the type of bull that appeals to "high-end" audiophools. It's amazing that people are so willing to believe in such things. Even more amazing still, it seems to me that the more arcane an explanation is, the easier it goes down, and more virulently it's defended. I'm speaking from personal experience, having made a few bucks designing audio output transformers for vacuum tube amplifiers "....gotta have silver-plated wire, and Teflon insulation." If it makes them happy, I'm not going to piss on their parade... but there's nothing scientific about it. My meager understanding of the nature of scalar waves, doesn't explain how the combination of magnets and wire would work... I don't believe that it generate scalar waves. Best Regards, Jack ---------------------------------------------------------- mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 14:59:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20799; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:59:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:59:11 -0800 Message-ID: <34AAE9F5.3D2F@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:57:25 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Laithwaite Obituary References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iRly6.0.Y45.yuigq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gnorts and Howdy! A copy of Professor Eric Laithwaites' obituary is now posted at; http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/laithobi.htm Quite a full life, often dealing frustration because of the stigma from his claims of weight loss in spinning gyroscopic masses...he claimed 5 pounds lost from a 20 pound spinning mass. Some say it is a form of linear friction as in the Sandy Kidd video done by Beyond 2000, where the device was counterbalanced by a bucket of scrap metal...when the device was in operation, the crude mechanical vibration from the rotation would cause the unit to move upwards in small steps. These small jerky steps are one of the problems with mechanical claims of gravity reduction, since these small jumps would appear to have to push against 'something.' Though with inertial drive units as demonstrated by Thornsen with the canoe that moved across the lake with no paddles or propellers, it was simply a box sitting in the canoe. The unit weight measurements have to be averaged so you don't measure these spikes....the mechanical analogue of the same error as seen in some free energy devices that are truly measuring many short lived spikes, and which 'appear' to be overunity. Interesting, makes it a basic proof requirement; mechanically - will it fly?, electronically - will it run itself and something else? Thornsen is one of the better demonstrations I've seen of the Puthoff/Rueda/Haisch paper on ZPE as the cause of inertia. Where an object pushes against its own mass which in turn pushes against the aether...'scuse me, ZPE..... More coming on that in the near future, geez, about time, since this 'new' info is from the 50's..... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-8741 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 15:39:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26958; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:38:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:38:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712312337.VAA17511@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:40:20 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: CD cleaning ... Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"0dnhq3.0.4b6.HUjgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3022 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > From: "Frank C. Earl" > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:18:06 +0000 > Subject: Re: What ARE Scalars? was: "Scalar" Detectors > Priority: normal > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > I'm not sure where I saw this or if it is true, but there was a device > > made merely of two magnet, a lot of wire, and a good battery that was > > supposed to give off scalars. It looked like this: > > _________________ > > / / /| > > / Wi/re //| > > /_________/_______/// ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) > > |_N____________S_|// Scalar Waves > > |_N____________S_|/ > > The device had wires wrapped around it as if making an electromagnet out > > of magnets. > > Yeah, it was something that John Bedini graciously provided to the > 'net. I don't remember off the top of my head if the magnet polarity > you're showing is right- I think it was supposed to be north poles > inward and south poles outward. But that's it's origin. > > > Is this for real, or what? > > Yeah, I think so. I've not tried the thing but the device in > question is the heart of John's patented Clarifier and Ultra Clarifier > CD enhancement machines. Audiophiles seem to think that the thing > works- been claiming so for about 1-2 years now from my recollection > of it. > -- > Frank C. Earl > Earl Consulting Services > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This "Ultra Clarifier" seems to be similar to that "Snake Oil" or those things based on the "Electronic Voodoo".... Happy New Year ! Marcelo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 16:03:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA30300; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:02:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:02:42 -0800 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971231164946.006a2324@palacenet.net> References: <19971231193205.27224.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:02:20 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re:Scalar CD cleaner... Resent-Message-ID: <"Lfr2f2.0.LP7.Xqjgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 5:49 PM -0500 12/31/97, Jack DeMule wrote: >Sorry, I'm with Mr. Mojo on this one...it's just the type of >bull that appeals to "high-end" audiophools. It's amazing there's a rather amusing review of the device, which is described as the 'ultimate audio placebo', at http://www.audioideas.on.ca/am/bedini.htm r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 16:24:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03095; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:24:28 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:24:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001801bd164b$67b64a40$861e4dca@tesla> From: "Tesla" To: Subject: It is the Scalar CD cleaner!!!! Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 08:22:54 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ll6zm2.0.Em.w8kgq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Right! the thing is just a demagneticer for dust so the CD will not catch dust as easy as untreat CD, so the sound will be better without the dust to distore the laser!!!!!!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 16:45:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03691; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:44:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:44:48 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:44:00 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: How important is roll away in SMOT? (reply to Rick from Butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"DN-w_1.0.av.-Rkgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3025 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 97-12-31 07:03:44 EST, you write: << Butch - > I haven't followed the SMOT project very > close, but I got roll aways with my layout > (about 2 degrees up slope) when Greg first > brought it on line. Is this very important? It's huge. Can you duplicate and video tape it? Can you get a second ramp to do level rollaways too? Perhaps pass it around to a few others - like EarthTech or Gene Mallove? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >> Rick, Will put gif file on the list showing layout and details of materials in next 24 hours. Also, will video and put on my web page, but that will take 3 or 4 days. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 17:19:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12175; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:19:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:19:37 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:14:17 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: It is the Scalar CD cleaner!!!! In-Reply-To: <001801bd164b$67b64a40$861e4dca@tesla> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jc0_t3.0.6-2.eykgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Tesla wrote: > Right! the thing is just a demagneticer for dust so the CD will not catch > dust as easy as untreat CD, so the sound will be better without the dust to > distore the laser!!!!!!! > > Finally, someone gets it! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 17:22:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12525; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:22:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:22:08 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:18:35 +1100 Message-Id: <199801010218.NAA01910@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@mail.sa.ozland.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: A Source for Barium and other magnets Resent-Message-ID: <"uDghs2.0.b33._-kgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3027 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:52 PM 11/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, A couple of months ago I noticed on this newsgroup people were enquiring where to purchase Barium magnets I have found a source in New Zealand and have made gifs of their prices from they printout I recieved from them a couple of days ago. I believe the prices are in New zealand Dollars which means for people outside New Zealand with the currency exchange rates as they are at present extremely good pricing. if anyone is interested I can send a copy of those gifs to you just send me an email to my email address By the way check out my website at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 and if you like it please vote for at the design website my position is number five on the listing by using the vote button. The design may not be the top design but it will give further exposure to the free energy concept. Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 17:43:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15778; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:42:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:42:51 -0800 Sender: ralph@gateway.minimal.com Message-ID: <34AAF48F.5945BC4E@minimal.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:42:39 -0500 From: ralph muha Organization: minimal, limited X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Yikes! $calar CD Cleaner! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bwAKB3.0.Js3.PIlgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3028 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.sonic.net/soundscape/bedini.html > Soundscape Product Listing > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [Image] > Bedini ULTRA DELUX Clarifier > Table Top Unit > [Image] > Only $399.95 including freight! > > Will accomodate Laser Discs, Vinal LPs, DVDs, CDIs and CDs > Incorporates a multi-beam array. Mass shielding, auto detection > circuitry and > in-use indicator LED for processing status. > > California Residence add 7.5% Sales Tax > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [Image] > Bedini Ultra Clarifier > Table Top Unit > Only $149.95 including freight! > > California Residence add 7.5% Sales Tax > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bedini Clarifier > > Basic Units now in stock. > Only $49.95 including freight! > > [Image] > > California Residence add 7.5% Sales Tax > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Coming Soon D.R.E.A.M. > > DYNAMIC REALISTIC & ENHANCED AUDIO FOR MULTIMEDIA > > The best in 3D sound processing[Image] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bedini Reviews > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 18:00:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19526; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:58:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:58:37 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:53:22 -0600 (CST) From: HackEd To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Yikes! $calar CD Cleaner! In-Reply-To: <34AAF48F.5945BC4E@minimal.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PPSEQ1.0.zm4.BXlgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3029 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, ralph muha wrote: > http://www.sonic.net/soundscape/bedini.html > > > Soundscape Product Listing > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > [Image] > > Bedini ULTRA DELUX Clarifier > > Table Top Unit > > [Image] > > Only $399.95 including freight! > > > > Will accomodate Laser Discs, Vinal LPs, DVDs, CDIs and CDs > > Incorporates a multi-beam array. Mass shielding, auto detection > > circuitry and > > in-use indicator LED for processing status. > > > > California Residence add 7.5% Sales Tax > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > [Image] > > Bedini Ultra Clarifier > > Table Top Unit > > Only $149.95 including freight! > > > > California Residence add 7.5% Sales Tax > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Bedini Clarifier > > > > Basic Units now in stock. > > Only $49.95 including freight! > > > > [Image] > > > > California Residence add 7.5% Sales Tax > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Coming Soon D.R.E.A.M. > > > > DYNAMIC REALISTIC & ENHANCED AUDIO FOR MULTIMEDIA > > > > The best in 3D sound processing[Image] > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bedini Reviews > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Now THAT is nuts! Who in their right mind would be something for $400 when ANYONE could just as easily glue together 2 magnets, wrap a wire around, and hook a battery on!!! This must be a fraud, because otherwise he wouldn't be selling it at such outrageous prices! (Though it still might produce scalar waves...) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 18:13:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21525; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:12:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:12:55 -0800 Message-ID: <00a301bd165a$c1015680$861e4dca@tesla> From: "Tesla" To: Subject: Re: Yikes! $calar CD Cleaner! Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:12:46 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"wH6sH.0.EG5.cklgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I know, If you know what this device does and how it does the job of Ultra Clarifying the CD, is not worth the price? But this is a Scalar device as a matter of fact, useful or not. It is cheaper to buy a CD cleaner with chemical cleaning agent? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 18:29:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24775; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:29:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:29:24 -0800 Message-ID: <00ae01bd165d$0def5440$861e4dca@tesla> From: "Tesla" To: Subject: DYNAMIC REALISTIC & ENHANCED AUDIO FOR MULTIMEDIA Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:29:14 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"OowPA1.0.036.3-lgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3031 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com DYNAMIC REALISTIC & ENHANCED AUDIO FOR MULTIMEDIA is basically the same thing, the working of it is that a cable carries analog audio there is static noise in the surrounding of the cable, even with shielded cable there is some noise in it. That is why a good HI-Fi use optic cables to sent digital single. By using this device the static noise around the cable is canceled so the sound should be better. Remember Scalar wave can go though the shieldings! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 18:37:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27254; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:37:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:37:10 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712312029.OAA09667@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:12:40 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: How important is roll away in SMOT? I have had them from the Resent-Message-ID: <"5jpbn1.0.ge6.E5mgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3032 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Richard - > Exactly what RWW said needed to be done three months ago. Put'cher wild ego in check, pardner - it's what we've been saying on these lists since April '97 when this first came out, so co-opting it as your own idea isn't fooling anyone who was here. Most of us simply choose to be more civil than you have chosen to be. That shouldn't be taken as a lack of sincerity on our part towards achieving the same goals. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 22:41:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29173; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:41:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:41:21 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, haspden@iee.org Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:22:48 -0800 Subject: Checkout the ideas of Dr. Harold Aspden Message-ID: <19971231.223001.12094.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,8-9,13-19 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"2Pu9p1.0.j77.Egpgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3033 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fellow space energy researchers, Another energy pioneer that we should pay more attention to is Dr. Harold Aspden. Dr. Aspden is credited by Paulo Correa to be the author of a theory to explain the phenomena involved in the Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge Device, one of the most impressive examples of what may be a real free energy device in existance now. ( see: http://www.globalserve.net/~lambdac/ ) Aspden is also an expert in ferromagnetism and believes, as did the late Professor Eric Laithwaite, that ferromagnetism has properties that can be used to the ambient fluctuations that surround us, as thermal and electromagnetic zero point energy. Dr. Aspden has an excellant web site, it is: http://www.energyscience.co.uk Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 22:41:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29261; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:41:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:41:35 -0800 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:27:47 -0800 Subject: Correa Patents Message-ID: <19971231.223001.12094.3.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40-42,44-52,54-88,90-96, 98,100,102,104-108,110-115,117-118,120-147,149,151-152,154, 156-157,159-160,162-163,165-166,168,170-182,184-197,199,201,203, 205,207,209,211,213-216,218-223,225-238 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"Pu3yC2.0.v87.Qgpgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3035 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Some have inquired about the patents of Paulo and Alexandra Correa and Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge Device. Here they are: ABSTRACTS OF THE CORREAS' US PATENTS I. United States Patent 5,416,391 Correa et. al. May 16, 1995 Electromechanical transduction of plasma pulses Inventors: Correa; Paulo N. and Correa; Alexandra N. Appl. No.: 961,531 Filed: Oct. 15, 1992 Related US Application Data Continuation-in-part of Ser No. 922,863, Jul. 31, 1992, abandoned Abstract A direct current power transducer for driving alternating current devices utilizes a discharge tube connected across a current source, the construction of the tube and characteristics of the source being such as to maintain endogenous pulsed abnormal gas discharge within the tube. The tube is capacitatively coupled to an external load including an alternating current device, typically an electric motor. Electric motors of the asynchronous induction or synchronous types are particularly suitable, but other alternating current devices may be used. By adjustments to the current source, the capacitance in parallel with the discharge tube, and connections to auxiliary electrodes, the pulse repetition frequency of the discharge may be adjusted, thus allowing variable speed control of types of alternating current motor not normally amenable to such control. 13 Claims, 26 Drawing Figures Intl. Cl.: H03K 3/37 U.S. Cl.: 318/558; 307/106; 313/581 Current U.S. Class: 318/558 Field of Search: 318/558, 700, 727; 307/106; 313/581; 361/230, 231; 378/122 References Cited 3,205,162 Sept., 1965 MacLean 3,471,316 Oct., 1969 Manuel 3,628,164 Dec., 1971 Tikhomirov 3,663,855 May, 1972 Boettcher 3,678,510 Jul., 1972 Walthard et al. 4,063,130 Dec., 1977 Hunter, Jr. 4,194,239 Mar., 1980 Jayaram et al Primary Examiner: Ro; Bentsu Attorney, Agent or Firm: Ridout & Maybee II. United States Patent 5,449,989 Correa et. al. Sept. 12, 1995 Energy conversion system Inventors: Correa; Paulo N. and Correa; Alexandra N. Appl. No.: 054,111 Filed: Apr. 15, 1993 Related U.S. Application Data- Continuation-in-part of Ser No. 922,863, Jul. 31, 1992, abandoned and Ser No. 961,531, Oct. 15, 1992, Pat. No. 5,416,391. Abstract An energy conversion device includes a discharge tube which is operated in a pulsed abnormal glow discharge regime in a double ported circuit. A direct current source connected to an input port provides electrical energy to initiate emission pulses, and a current sink in the form of an electrical energy storage or utilization device connected to the output port captures at least a substantial proportion of energy released by collapse of the emission pulses. 23 Claims, 24 Drawing Figures Intl. Cl.: H03K 3/37 U.S. Cl.: 318/558; 313/581; 315/111.21; 315/111.31; 315/171; 315/173; 327/533; 327/601 Current U.S. Class: 318/558 Field of Search: 318/558, 727; 313/306, 581; 315/84.51, 111.01, 111.21, 111.31,160, 171, 173, 187, 188, 193, 200 R, 207; 328/59, 60, 61, 69, 70, 85, 208, 219, 220, 225, 249, 250, 251, 260, 264; 363/116, 117 References Cited 3,205,162 Sept., 1965 MacLean 3,471,316 Oct., 1969 Manuel 3,705,329 Dec., 1972 Vogeli 3,801,202 Apr., 1974 Breaux 3,864,640 Feb., 1975 Bennett 3,878,429 Apr., 1975 Iwata 4,009,416 Feb., 1977 Lowther 4,128,788 Dec., 1978 Lowther 4,194,239 Mar., 1980 Jayaram et al. 4,443,739 Apr., 1984 Woldring 4,489,269 Dec., 1984 Edling et al. 4,527,044 Jul., 1985 Bruel et al. 4,772,816 Sept., 1988 Spence 4,896,076 Jan., 1990 Hunter et al. 5,126,638 Jun., 1992 Dethlefsen Other References Tanberg, R. "On the Cathode of an Arc Drawn in Vacuum", (1930), Phys. Rev., 35:1080. Kobel, E. "Pressure & High Vapour Jets at the Cathodes of a Mercury Vacuum Arc", (1930), Phys. Rev., 36:1636. Aspden, H. (1969) "The Law of Electrodynamics", J. Franklin Inst., 287:179. Aspden, H. (1983) "Planar Boundaries of the Space-Time Lattice" Lettere Al Nuovo Cimento, vol. 38, No. 7, pp. 243-246. Aspden, H. (1980) "Physics Unified", Sabberton Publications, pp. 14-17, 42-45, 88- 89, 190-193. Pappas, P. T. (1983) "The Original Ampere Force and Bio-Savart &Lorentz Forces", Il Nuovo Cimento, 76B:189. Graham, G. M. & Lahoz, D. G. (1980) "Observation of Static Electromagnetic Angular Momentum in Vacuo", Nature, vol. 285, pp. 154 & 155. Sethian, J. D. et al., "Anomalous Electron-Ion Energy Transfer in a Relativistic- Electron-Beam-Plasma" Phys. Rev. Letters, vol. 40, No. 7, pp. 451- 454 (1978). Primary Examiner: Ro; Bentsu III. United States Patent 5,502,354 Correa, et. al. Mar. 26, 1996 Direct current energized pulse generator utilizing autogenous cyclical pulsed abnormal glow discharges Inventors: Correa; Paulo N. and Correa; Alexandra N. Appl. No.: 229,931 Filed: Apr. 19, 1994 Related US Application Data Continuation-in-part of Ser No. 922,863, Jul. 31, 1992, abandoned Abstract A cold cathode vacuum discharge tube is used in a circuit for generating pulsed autoelectronic emissions which are particularly intense and frequent in the abnormal glow discharge region, and involve much lower current densities than predicted by the Fowler-Nordheim vacuum arc discharge region law. The discharge tube is characterized by a large electrode area at least of the cathode, and a large interelectrode gap. The electrodes are preferably spaced at least 2 cm apart in a parallel relationship. A probe may be introduced between the electrodes to reduce still further the field required to generate the emissions. In another configuration the probe forms the anode and two plates form cathodes. The circuit is driven from a direct current source of having an impedance sufficient to prevent establishment of a vacuum arc discharge. 18 Claims, 28 Drawing Figures Intl. Cl.: H01J 7/24 U.S. Cl.: 315/111.01; 315/339; 315/349 Current U.S. Class: 315/111.01 Field of Search: 315/111.11, 111.21, 111.01, 111.71, 111.91, 56, 61, 63, 339, 349 References Cited 3,471,316 Sept., 1969 Manuel 117/ 93.3 3,821,580 Jun., 1974 Alexandrovich et 313/ 56 4,733,530 Mar., 1988 Beattie et al. 315/111.21 X Primary Examiner: Pascal; Robert J. Assistant Examiner: Ratliff; Reginald A. Attorney, Agent or Firm: Ridout & Maybee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 22:41:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29230; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:41:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:41:30 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, haspden@iee.org Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:06:38 -0800 Subject: Re: Laithwaite Obituary Message-ID: <19971231.223000.12094.1.tv@juno.com> References: <34AAE9F5.3D2F@keelynet.com> <34AAE401.21C3@math.ucla.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,7-13,23-24,30-31,38-39,45-46,51-52,55-56,69-70, 72-79,81-143 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"1gXQm1.0.U87.Ogpgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3034 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fellow space energy researchers, It is with great sadness that I receive news of the passing of another great researcher Professor Eric Laithwaite. Prof. Laithwaite should go in the annals of invention as the inventor of the linear induction motor that drives some of today's electric trains and one of the pioneers in research leading to a practical ambient fluctuation coherence technology (thermal and/or zero point free energy devices). A copy of Professor Eric Laithwaites' obituary is now posted at; http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/laithobi.htm ( Courtesy of Jerry Decker ) I never met Dr. Laithwaite in person but I corresponded with him once and I felt a kinship with him ever since I spotted an article in an encyclopedia published in England and in the united States called "The Science and Invention Encyclopedia". The article was titled "Inertial Propulsion". It was about Dr. Laithwaite's gyroscopic inertial propulsion device. I was in high school when I first saw it and was so intrigued that I began calling anyone I could for more information. The article did not give Laithwaite's name but the publisher in England sent me the references I needed after I sent them a telegram message (no free EMAIL in those days). I found that one aerospace company here in California (Ford Aronuetronics) had investigated inertial propulsion in the 1960's but had concluded that it would not work for space flight. Of course an inertial propulsion device would apparently violate Newton's 2nd ( and 3rd) Laws and was dismissed by most physicists and engineers out of hand without further investigation. I once had the opportunity to see a Lathwaite device built by Scott Strachan it definitely decreased in weight when placed on a spring balance. However, I was not convinced that this was a fair way to test it since a spring balance is not linear. I think a pendulum test is far better. Basically a long swing hung from the tall building such as an aircraft hangar. If it could cause of an average center of mass displacement, that would be far more impressive. I have also held a Thornson inertial propulsion device in my hands while it was operating. It sure felt like it was pulling more in one direction than the other. But again this was only a subjective observation. The swing test would be far more impressive. As far as I know no inertial propulsion device has passed the swing test. In other words they could not maintain an average offset of the swing. They will drive boat across swimming pools though. But that is because they are reacting against the water. There is kind of bulldozer that is used in swamps that can push trees over, it uses rotating offset masses that rotate at some acute angle relative to the ground such that they cause the back of the dozer to bite into the mud on the backstroke. I would take inertial propulsion with a grain of salt until it is proven by some kind of test such as the swing test. I remain unconvinced but open to the possibility of reacting against the aether. Dr. Laithwaite also believed in the possibility of tapping the energy that keeps the atom in orbit around the atom (zero point energy) through the use of ferromagnetism. He once observed a strange event when he was running a peculiar motor that he invented that made a washer spin around inside a drum. On several occasions and in particular once when demonstrated to a large crowd the motor continued to run for about a minute after he turned it off and it even started to speed up ! Dr. Laithwaite was so intrigued by this chance observation that he sought to try to replicate it in reliable way. As far as I know, he did not succeed. However he remained convinced that there was more to ferromagnetism than we presently understand. He was definitely a believer in the possibility free energy devices. He would have been right at home on VORTEX-L and FREENRG-L. Please pray for the comfort of Dr. Laithwaite's wife and children at this time of sorrow. Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:32:01 -0800 Barry Merriman writes: >Jerry wrote: >> >> >> A copy of Professor Eric Laithwaites' obituary > >Well, another one bites the dust, as they say. No >disrespect to Laithwaite intended---its just the >way of "over unity" inventors and their inventions. > >I was always singularly perplexed by Laithwaite: he's >clearly an excellent electrical engineer, and was >respected, having the ear of academics >and the public for at least a few years, and he claimed to be able to >make rather obvious weight reductions in simple fashion, >yet none of his work seems to have been replicated >or to have spread far beyond himself. What to make of it? >Don't know, but given his particular history its hard to >imagine that he had really discovered a new inertial effect.... > >> >> ....he claimed 5 pounds lost from a 20 pound spinning mass. > >Yes, but why were there be any need for this to remain >a "claim"? Such an effect should be easy to replicate. > >> >> >> ...small jerky steps are one of the problems with mechanical claims >of >> gravity reduction...these spikes....[are] the mechanical analogue >> of the same error as seen in some free energy devices that are >> truly measuring many short lived spikes, and which 'appear' [OU] > >Jerry makes a very interesting connection here: many such devices >are based on strongly fluctuating forces. In the electrical >case, since the system is (presumably) conservative, >these I*V fluctuations truly add to exactly zero, but >the errors introduced by measuring equipment yield sums that do not >add exactly to zero, the error depending on how well resolved the >I*V spikes are. In contrast, in the mechanical case, since >the system is in frictional contact with its surroundings, and >friction is not a conservative force, the >sum of all the frictional force spikes does not have to be >zero, and the device can push itself along in a form that is >essentially no different than walking. But the spiky-ness >of the forces makes it superficially look like the net frictional >force is zero, because many spikes nearly do sum to zero. > >So, in both cases the >spiky-ness of the system output is the source of the misperception, >tho in one case its because its hard to get spikey data >points to sum to zero when they should, and in the other because >the spikey effects nearly do sum to zero. > > >-- >Barry Merriman >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >email: barry@math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 23:32:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01633; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 23:32:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 23:32:47 -0800 From: HLafonte Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:32:07 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: First draft Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_883639927_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"-9BAW2.0.QP.TQqgq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3036 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_883639927_boundary Content-ID: <0_883639927@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_883639927_boundary Content-ID: <0_883639927@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: HLafonte Return-path: To: monteverde@worldnet.att.net Subject: First draft Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:29:49 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_883639927_boundary" --part1_883639927_boundary Content-ID: <0_883639927@inet_out.mail.aol.com.3> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Rick, Will send details on measurement of parts and type materials tomorrow. 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